The APT will forever remain as proof that you could design the best technology possible with the most amount of benefits to the people but ultimately bureaucracy will always attempt to stop you and 9 times out of 10, they will succeed.
Tories. Tories hate the public sector and withdraw all funding, so that the "private sector" can do it. IE, cut it, flog it to your mates and buy it back at an inflated price.
@@barrieshepherd7694Let's be quite honest tho. The way HS2 was supposed to be built was quite dumb and frankly too expensive. Instead of passing through the middle of nowhere, cutting through farms, fields etc., in many places you could have simply added two track besides existing rail lines and when necessairy pass under cities. Out of curiosity I looked at the existing HS2 Route and tried to find a better one, completely drive able at 350 kmh. Wasn't too difficult either just some more gentle curves here and there... Basically another case of politics blaming engineers and the like for problems politics cause. Would have been quite easily been able to extend up to york with my layout. About 60 - 70 % of the length could have been done next to existing linies. But no...
Vote for me if you like common sense ideas such as being able to freely window hang without fear of being treated like A child, oh and you know, trains having actual windows again
Imagine if these actually got beyond the trial phase and were widely introduced.. It makes me wonder how different the timeline of the WCML would've been. Loco hauled services probably would've been phased out decades earlier then they were, Amd the 390/voyagers may of never came to be.. That's a wild thing to think about.
Indeed. By now though, the APT would have been replaced - which makes me wonder, would we have ended up with a larger fleet of Hitachi 800s? Or perhaps would we have come up with something else?
@@Isee3 I think just based on the current timeline of events, Virgin would've still gotten the franchise for the WCML, which would've likely seen them refurbish the APTs - Then maybe at some point in the late 2010s, they would've placed a joint IET order for the then ECML franchise, and the WCML franchise, with only the latter ever making it under virgin. Places like Liverpool South Parkway would've been served a lot sooner, but at the cost of severe discomfort for all passengers on the WCML.
@@Isee3 I thought class 800s were cool initially but now it seems like the only model of intercity train in the country is going to be a class 800 derivative in a minute.
@@TheRip72 You are right It was the biggest waste on money I ever spent on a model and the same happened to mine on the day I got it. My old APT ran fine for years until I converted my layout to DCC. I still have the old one and the new on is put back in the boxes.
It's actually displayed at the Crewe Heritage Centre, along with many other railway exhibits. And it's the only APT-P still left. The gas turbine powered APT-E is displayed at the Locomotion Museum at Shildon in Co. Durham.
Fantastic video. Sadly, as always, the press, and the government failed us. We were once a nation of great inventors and engineers, but mismanagement and the attitude of "that'll do" resulted in us going so far with something, and then stopping, leaving others to pick up where we left off and continuing and improving development.
Great upload, I still think it looks way way ahead of its time' the people who worked and designed this train should be very proud of themselves. I wish I could of travelled on this beautiful train.
Except it wasn't a flop, the government and press bullied it out of existence. By the time it was taken out of service for the last time, the problems were practically solved. APT-E was the APT Experimental. APT-P was the APT Prototype, which tested and refined the new technology, obviously new technology would have issues, but they get fixed. APT-S would have been the APT Squadron, the production APT with all issues solved.
@@BritishTrainspotting I think the InterCity 225 is the APT-S as it was developed from the APT, the Mk4 coaches look like the APT but without the shared bogies, single power car at one end of the train etc...
@@BritishTrainspottingI was told by Mr Tilt as he is known, one of the designers I met at York model show when Rapido were planning their APT-E model. One problem was APT-P used lower spec components for the tilt system and particles of seals were blocking a hydraulic oil filter causing the tilt failures BR Research had specified what components to use but as ever there were those who thought the cost was too high and forced BREL to get cheaper. When the project was cancelled that and most other problems had been solved but the press got their way with their untrue stories. Today the Pendolino tilts but you do not hear of anyone being ill on that because it is tilting. APT was far more advanced than they are with an active tilt system rather than a passive one used today. The difference is a much smoother ride because the trains onboard sensors detected the correct amount of tilt needed for the speed of the train. The derailment was not caused by bolts working loose, it was a hollow axle turbine brake that had a part assembled incorrectly which caused the axle to break when the water flowed in, another problem they made sure could not happen again by modification of the design.
@Ash-gtr32 there were 2 reasons given. A standing wave would have been created between the 2 pantographs, which at the intended high speeds was undesirable as it was thought that it would cause damage to the OHLE in the pre-fast digital computer modelling era. The second reason was that no-one had developed high voltage power conduit technology suitable for reliable railway operations capable of transferring 25kV ac from one end of the train set to the other.
i just realised the apt has some things in common the the flirt trains, the centralised power car suspended bogies every where except the power cars and one door per side (forget about the class 231) i think
Another thing Maggie killed off was BT fully fibring the UK all in the name of competition, she actually blocked BT from actually putting fibre into each and every property in the UK. BT actually had in house fibre optic manufacturing which was later sold off in early 90s.
best part is so many years after politicing killed this train dead, the UK rail operators now import tilting trains from outside nations. I bet those old politicians feel so great these days, assuming any of them are still left
There's no such thing as a stop gap train for I can think of three for the railways. The HST, the Hastings DEMU and the Pacer all so called stop gap trains that stayed and became permanent.
ua-cam.com/video/TJGIMZ-LxaI/v-deo.html That comment sums up the whole APT problem. Britain is much smaller than France or Japan. We do not need a 300 KPH TGV or a faster bullet train. The HST 125 was a fraction of the price of the APT or even the 225. But boy did it do the job. That said the APT's active suspension concept was way ahead of even Formula 1. Colin Chapman only started playing with it on an Esprit in 1980 or 81 and only was raced many years later.
considering it was a prototype, a world first and the machine every copies, even today, the gov responsible should still be chucked in prison, for destroying an industry.
I remember it being mocked by a comedy programme shown by the British Paedo TV channel. The APT was cancelled soon afterwards. They seem to be good at rubbishing British innovations.
£50 million is peanuts even by 1970s standards. Thatcher was anti rail and pro road. It was up against it. A great shame,and now all our BR workshops are gone. They would rather buy them from abroad. Shocking.
The APT will forever remain as proof that you could design the best technology possible with the most amount of benefits to the people but ultimately bureaucracy will always attempt to stop you and 9 times out of 10, they will succeed.
Tories. Tories hate the public sector and withdraw all funding, so that the "private sector" can do it. IE, cut it, flog it to your mates and buy it back at an inflated price.
Brandnew kitchen gun!
.......and the current bureaucracy has proved that again with the HS2 fiasco.
see hs2 now... we never learn
@@barrieshepherd7694Let's be quite honest tho. The way HS2 was supposed to be built was quite dumb and frankly too expensive. Instead of passing through the middle of nowhere, cutting through farms, fields etc., in many places you could have simply added two track besides existing rail lines and when necessairy pass under cities. Out of curiosity I looked at the existing HS2 Route and tried to find a better one, completely drive able at 350 kmh. Wasn't too difficult either just some more gentle curves here and there... Basically another case of politics blaming engineers and the like for problems politics cause. Would have been quite easily been able to extend up to york with my layout. About 60 - 70 % of the length could have been done next to existing linies. But no...
What could've been, should've been? The future! Top railwave!
Vote for me if you like common sense ideas such as being able to freely window hang without fear of being treated like A child, oh and you know, trains having actual windows again
Imagine if these actually got beyond the trial phase and were widely introduced.. It makes me wonder how different the timeline of the WCML would've been. Loco hauled services probably would've been phased out decades earlier then they were, Amd the 390/voyagers may of never came to be.. That's a wild thing to think about.
Indeed. By now though, the APT would have been replaced - which makes me wonder, would we have ended up with a larger fleet of Hitachi 800s? Or perhaps would we have come up with something else?
@@Isee3 I think just based on the current timeline of events, Virgin would've still gotten the franchise for the WCML, which would've likely seen them refurbish the APTs - Then maybe at some point in the late 2010s, they would've placed a joint IET order for the then ECML franchise, and the WCML franchise, with only the latter ever making it under virgin. Places like Liverpool South Parkway would've been served a lot sooner, but at the cost of severe discomfort for all passengers on the WCML.
They don’t mention the InterCity 225 which worked, was designed for tilt to be added & reused the Apt tech.
@@Isee3 I thought class 800s were cool initially but now it seems like the only model of intercity train in the country is going to be a class 800 derivative in a minute.
What about hs2
I love how In one of the reports it says Hornby gets the apt right. My Hornby apt’s camshaft broke and the capacitor blew and caught fire
i hope mine doesnt ...
Your 2021 APT was made long after this video. The earlier model had no cardan shaft (not a camshaft).
@@TheRip72 You are right It was the biggest waste on money I ever spent on a model and the same happened to mine on the day I got it. My old APT ran fine for years until I converted my layout to DCC. I still have the old one and the new on is put back in the boxes.
British Railwave the music genre I didn't know I needed! This would have made every journey feel like an episode of Miami Vice.
Nice video! I saw one of these recently, it was parked behind a Tesco in Crewe
pretty much the only ‘full’ display of one in the uk
It's actually displayed at the Crewe Heritage Centre, along with many other railway exhibits. And it's the only APT-P still left. The gas turbine powered APT-E is displayed at the Locomotion Museum at Shildon in Co. Durham.
I went there recently
this fits the theme of synthwave so well: yesterdays tomorrow and this was yesterdays tomorrow
All time favourite! Great vid. I still have my Rail Riders APT tee shirt, and my nippers have all had their time wearing it
Nice, I was waiting for more from my new favourite genre. "Railwave"
There will be a double dose this week....
find the TGV synth video, you'll love it
lets gooooooooooo more railwaves to vibe to
Fantastic video. Sadly, as always, the press, and the government failed us. We were once a nation of great inventors and engineers, but mismanagement and the attitude of "that'll do" resulted in us going so far with something, and then stopping, leaving others to pick up where we left off and continuing and improving development.
Tilty boi
i may have misread that lol
omg this is a total vibe
Great upload, I still think it looks way way ahead of its time' the people who worked and designed this train should be very proud of themselves.
I wish I could of travelled on this beautiful train.
Nice video, always cool to see another one
A very special train. What would we have today had it been allowed it’s time…,
Class 390 exists
Boy that a good train while it lasted
The APT was a symbol of British engineering. Though it was flop, I still believe it was a fantastic idea.
Except it wasn't a flop, the government and press bullied it out of existence. By the time it was taken out of service for the last time, the problems were practically solved.
APT-E was the APT Experimental.
APT-P was the APT Prototype, which tested and refined the new technology, obviously new technology would have issues, but they get fixed.
APT-S would have been the APT Squadron, the production APT with all issues solved.
@@BritishTrainspotting exactly
@@YukariAkiyamaTanks A flop that never should have been!
@@BritishTrainspotting I think the InterCity 225 is the APT-S as it was developed from the APT, the Mk4 coaches look like the APT but without the shared bogies, single power car at one end of the train etc...
@@BritishTrainspottingI was told by Mr Tilt as he is known, one of the designers I met at York model show when Rapido were planning their APT-E model. One problem was APT-P used lower spec components for the tilt system and particles of seals were blocking a hydraulic oil filter causing the tilt failures BR Research had specified what components to use but as ever there were those who thought the cost was too high and forced BREL to get cheaper. When the project was cancelled that and most other problems had been solved but the press got their way with their untrue stories. Today the Pendolino tilts but you do not hear of anyone being ill on that because it is tilting. APT was far more advanced than they are with an active tilt system rather than a passive one used today. The difference is a much smoother ride because the trains onboard sensors detected the correct amount of tilt needed for the speed of the train. The derailment was not caused by bolts working loose, it was a hollow axle turbine brake that had a part assembled incorrectly which caused the axle to break when the water flowed in, another problem they made sure could not happen again by modification of the design.
Never given a second chance, what could have been...
The APT-P formation was not good. The central power cars meant you had to duplicate all services either side of the power cars.
I always wondered why they didn't have a power car at each end similar to the HST but obviously with the internals of an electric locomotive.
@Ash-gtr32 there were 2 reasons given. A standing wave would have been created between the 2 pantographs, which at the intended high speeds was undesirable as it was thought that it would cause damage to the OHLE in the pre-fast digital computer modelling era. The second reason was that no-one had developed high voltage power conduit technology suitable for reliable railway operations capable of transferring 25kV ac from one end of the train set to the other.
At 9:37 the APT goes through Lancaster Station.
Epic soundtrack
ua-cam.com/video/1jGuzNPV9k0/v-deo.html
I bet if any of that apt merchandise still exists it'll be worth a absolute fortune these days with collectors and enthusiasts.
And about 20 - 25 years later we got the Pendolino! Practically the same train... but made by... the Italians. 😅
You are not wrong tho
Absolutely fantastic video
Yeahhhhhh babyyy. It’s back
the class 800 never came close
It was so close ;_;
!RETRO FUTURISM. Woke up to this, ThANKYO*U@!
Could you include music sources for railwaves videos please?
I shall include them, as like in the other videos, in the description later :)
@@Isee3 Thanks!
i just realised the apt has some things in common the the flirt trains, the centralised power car suspended bogies every where except the power cars and one door per side (forget about the class 231) i think
Yes they look very much like the APT...
If they just wouldn't have rushed it into service it might have worked.
Of all the things that Margaret thacher ruined, the APT project was certainly one of the more painful ones to lose.
Another thing Maggie killed off was BT fully fibring the UK all in the name of competition, she actually blocked BT from actually putting fibre into each and every property in the UK. BT actually had in house fibre optic manufacturing which was later sold off in early 90s.
The Italians sorted it out with the pendolino
best part is so many years after politicing killed this train dead, the UK rail operators now import tilting trains from outside nations. I bet those old politicians feel so great these days, assuming any of them are still left
The tilt is big
There's no such thing as a stop gap train for I can think of three for the railways. The HST, the Hastings DEMU and the Pacer all so called stop gap trains that stayed and became permanent.
Stil looks good now
Wonder what’s going to happen to this in coming years since currently it’s just sat rusting at Crewe
its a museum, not rusting
ua-cam.com/video/TJGIMZ-LxaI/v-deo.html
That comment sums up the whole APT problem. Britain is much smaller than France or Japan. We do not need a 300 KPH TGV or a faster bullet train.
The HST 125 was a fraction of the price of the APT or even the 225. But boy did it do the job.
That said the APT's active suspension concept was way ahead of even Formula 1. Colin Chapman only started playing with it on an Esprit in 1980 or 81 and only was raced many years later.
Blame the Treasury!
Vote for me, i'll bring us back to being this British again, but it actually works for us all this time
Is that Enoch Powell driving the train?
Why they never stuck with the deltic ?
hard to maintain and complex
At least BR sparked the innovation🤷
considering it was a prototype, a world first and the machine every copies, even today, the gov responsible should still be chucked in prison, for destroying an industry.
I remember it being mocked by a comedy programme shown by the British Paedo TV channel. The APT was cancelled soon afterwards. They seem to be good at rubbishing British innovations.
That _bloody_ music
ua-cam.com/video/TJGIMZ-LxaI/v-deo.htmlsi=O-haqcnuq9jakowd
1:53 is that a young Jeremy Corbyn 😅
Blame the man who thought he knew best and swapped the hydraulics for air bags 🤮
電車でDの四国2000系並みに傾いてて草
Just bits of other documentries stuck together with crap music
Wdym crap music?
@@Baloongis2 The "music" isn't needed as you can't hear the narrators talking about it, it's...well crap !
There's always one, no ones forcing you to watch this video.
@@toddhunter3137
Yet we are being forced to try and make out what the ITN newsreader chap is occasionally whispering.
@@JP_TaVeryMuchPersonally I think the music 🎶 does quite well with this. It sort of captures the idea of it all back then.
Just regurgitated old footage with god awful music.
Whops! Looks like your opinion is *INVALID* please don't try again.
@@Tracks_And_ChillBASED BASED BASED BASED
Privatisation fucked our rails.
£50 million is peanuts even by 1970s standards. Thatcher was anti rail and pro road. It was up against it. A great shame,and now all our BR workshops are gone. They would rather buy them from abroad. Shocking.