Thank you, dear viewers, for posting your comments on this topic. I will post an update to this video as a sort of response, and further arguments as to why he's worth sparing.
Whats even sadder us that Dana, the level designer, actually wanted there to be a 3rd option where you would leave Jindosh alone without lobotomizing him but couldn't implement it due to budget restrictions :(
I wonder just how that would go down? to keep his mind from producing the clock work soldiers? he said the device could be used to manipulate the mind in a more gentle way. He wanted to use it on Sokolav to make him willing to work on cheaper clockworks. But what if, through a much more complex and inspective way... we could do the opposite to Jindosh. Destroy every clockwork he had in the mansion, burn all his records and material on the clockwork soldier design. and of course... use his machine to wipe the very memory of the clockwork soldier from him.
honestly the best thing we coulda done was just kidnap him and keep him as prisoner in the dreadful wale/dunwall tower, his mind was too great for the world
@@dolan3623 I imagine he just wakes up begs for mercy and then he just forgets the stuff he was making, but still remembers some stuff or just “no” and then walking out
Actually, Jindosh could have been captured to the Dreadful Whale and let go after Emily is back on the throne. Piero had differences with Sokolov too - but they became friends after a short while together.
You're ignoring the fact that he is part of the conspiracy that wanted Delilah on the throne, and was there for her ritualistic return. I don't think it would be plausible to just, "let him go."
@@Envoiden so what? Yeah, he commited a severe crime and would deserve punishment by law. Even death. But since he is an exceptional fellow, he could just be left working for society. He didn't care a thing for Delilah or other villains after all and wouldn't work towards her any-how return, if he saw that he is provided with resources regardless.
@@ever-modern That being true, he didn't stray away from evil when given it coincides with something that benefits him. He is willing to raise the dead by conjuring a void ghost to overthrow the throne and labotomise the "greatest mind" of the rat plague to purely streamline his wants and needs. He might not be evil, but he certainly is a bad person who would be more than willing to do it all again.
@@Envoiden yeah, that's the danger about him. Making the idea to spare him not that outright correct. It's just that possible gain of this decision is very high, but the risk is very high too. IMHO it's worth it. But I totally understand disaproval of unleashing this sociopath out again, though. Finishing argument to me, personally, is that this guy is a very scarce asset and cannot be disposed of. Take all the safety measures, but keep him producing his output. That makes a hard managerial task, but still.
@@Envoiden You over-darken his actions a bit. All that magic and betrayal stuff was just a means to an end to him. And the end was a creative one - not destructive.
Killing him really is a mistake but i guess the whole story of this game was about corvo/emily getting revenge which is why everyone involved in delilah’s inner circle is either left useless like ashworth or jindosh or straight up killed but thats just my theory
That's the beauty of the series. A simple revenge plotline is something Arkane considered among others, so your theory is just as valid,albeit from a different perspective.
The narrative really works a lot better with Emily: an out of touch princess turned queen loses everything and has to prove she's worthy by earning her place back on the throne. Corvo is basically the same revenge story we had in the first game.
@@waltlock8805 I agree with most of what you said except the part where "she was out of touch." Don't pretend that she didn't go through shit and struggle vastly in Dishonored 1 and its aftermath.
@@eskadoodle23I whole heartily agree She witnessed her mother being killed in front of her. Was going to be used as a tool for politics. Also planned to be a vessel for her Aunt Delilah. Leading up to Dishonored 2 where many don't have full faith in her leadership yet those who stood by her was mercilessly killed by Delilah and the Dukes hounds that joined their side. Corvo may have lost a lover and was framed for her murder. But Emily lost more
Talking about the lore.. if you try heart on Jindosh - Jessamina tells you that Kirin has been a psychopath since his early childhood. He also refused to have any ethics during his researches so it is absolutely impossible that he would comply with the new regime of Emily and Corvo who would restrict him a lot. In the game his character benefits a lot from the corrupted regime of the duke, and will feel much more uncomfortable under Emily’s rule. On the other hand Corvo or Emily could not leave him alive and free because it was not guaranteed that they will finish Duke and Dalila soon and meanwhile Jindosh could succeed to build the army of robots at any moment.
@@ThatOtherGamer on this note the outsider also mentioned that he was hired to make a toy/gift for some nobles child and after it was turned on it drove her mad, so no i don't think sparing him was ever a real option.
The problem with that story is the lack of context,we don't know why the girl went mad and if it was intentional or not. It's also a dialogue in high chaos mode if I remember correctly,which is a separate timeline.
@@ThatOtherGamer high chaos doesn't change past events and yes we do, the gift drove her mad, in fact that could be the event not known to the public that he was kicked out of the academy for and by your logic of lack of context how do you know that the music box that ran on seawater wasn't that gift using void music to make everyone cry and drive them mad and that is why it was taken apart to never work again, also as the OP pointed out "if you try heart on Jindosh - Jessamina tells you that Kirin has been a psychopath since his early childhood" so yeah it seems safe to assume the worst
The gift drove her mad,but how exactly?By accident or by design? The music box is not the reason he was kicked out,as the outsider said it is an event not made public. The music box is not the thing that ran on seawater,it's a different invention. Also,there's no mention of any void music being played in that cutscene that made everyone cry.
In the first game we kidnapped Sokolov and kept him captive until he was on our side. In the 2nd game, it shows he was a valuable ally and friend so sparing his genius ultimately paid off. It’s a shame we couldn’t have done the same for Jindosh… :/
According to Arkane, it's because of budget cuts. I'm perplexed by that alibi though, I feel like there was a way to spare him without having to spend a lot.
@@ThatOtherGamer Indeed - I mean, how much would it have taken? A small extension to the scene, like 20-30 seconds, and a panel in the game ending sequence. It's not like he'd have had to come to the ship like Sokolov.
@@ThatOtherGamer a time issue would be a more convincing alibi though, like how the final level was too simple compared to Clockwork Mnasion and The Edge of the world( the dust mine) looks like they're out of time before the due date.
A parallel can easily be drawn between Jindosh and Sokolov, a young inventor who's caught up in 'progress' so much that they don't see that the actions they preform have consequences. J is really a PoS, no matter what IQ his brian retains, he will always have an evil mind. Even after his 'lobotmization' he recounts with a certain glee how he found a beetle and pulled it's legs off. Smart or dumb the guy has a nasty soul, and that's something you can't sort out. The third option of scaring him into allegiance is really interesting just to see this chin-up holier-than-thou person realize that they aren't untouchable. Jindosh does exist on the same plane as everyone else. To see him shaken by reality like this would have been fantastic, sure he has all the things he creates/thinks up, but when you wake up with a horse's head in your bed you'll sober up real quick.
Honestly idk how they could portray sokolov as such a good guy when he also was responsible for horrible atrocities to innocent people who died in painful torturous ways regardless of the end goal. He treated people like test subjects. He isn't a funny good uncle guy that D2 treats him like
@@lonearachnid6591 He's had 15 years to realize what he did was wrong, 15 years of character growth. The game doesn't ignore what he did, but the whole point of the game is that these things aren't quite black-and-white, especially with characters like Daud, Billie Lurk and especially Sokolov. Not to mention the fact that Sokolov was close to Emily, being the royal physician for many years before and after the events of the first game.
@@toasterofdoom9629 i know its an old comment but the game definitely retcons some parts of sokolovs character in the first game to make it seem like he was more principled and redeeming. it's kind of minor but how they portray Sokolovs interrogation from the first game really bothers me. You could literally have him betray his employer by buying him brandy but in the second game it's made out as though he resisted hours of interrogation.
@@lachlancrimmings2235 that's a story he has to tell so that no one knows how easy it is to buy him. Also, I think the Loyalists HAD spent hours interrogating him by the time Corvo woke up. I kust played through 1 and I'm almost certain that's what I remember them saying
Jindosh helped stage a coup. He gets what he deserves. He was known to be a terrible person. Brilliant mind or not he was too dangerous to be left untouched.
@@Jules-69lol Alright, a better arguement then. Imagine you've found a genius above einstein but he's an enemy. Yes you could fry his brain or kill him in order to put an end to further development in your hostile forces arsenal. Or you could capture him and offer benefits if he's willing to work under supervision for an extended period. These perks could end up saving the lives of your comrades. It's merciful towards your prisoner of war. Everybody wins. This is forgiveness further motivated by greed. But better than blind vengeance. Justice will never truly be dispensed in the hearts of the people he has hurt and killed. But looking past that and seeing what he CAN do, then providing him with what's necessary to do so. That's virtue. Jindosh deserved better, maybe he can't be fixed or tamed, but wasting such a gift to the world would be the greatest embarassments one could make.
I think in the 48 rules of power there is one that says you should put enemies down FOR GOOD one way or another, dead or alive. If you spare them strength, they will take their time to build up again and plot their revenge. It is incredibly reckless and dangerous to leave an enemy capable.
I always felt like Jindosh’s non-lethal option is by far the harshest out of the entire series, but given that he was going to use the machine on Sokolov, I don’t feel to bad using it on him especially since he’s mostly in a state of confusion and blissful ignorance.
I reckon the punishment of the twins in the first game is probably the harshest tbh; having your tongue cut out and sold to a silver mine to live out your days as a slave is harrowing.
Jindosh is basically the younger version of Anton. If you remember the Tales of Dunwall animation series, there was a backstory to Roesburrow, the man who discovered the used of whale oil as a fuel resource. When he partner up with a young Anton for his inventions, Anton ushered Dunwall into a new age of technology at the cost of the civilians livelihood, to the point where Roseburrow committed suicide out of guilt and regret. Jindosh’s Clockwork soldiers were just the beginning of the same history being repeated. Anton had grown to eventually regret many of his actions, and I believe that Jindosh would’ve reached that same conclusion too, given time into his twilight years. The only difference was Jindosh’s involvement with the occult, which Anton never had much success in. If Jindosh could tapped into the Void and did research on it, it could be catastrophic.
@@ThatOtherGamer It was a great promotional videos before the release of the first game. My description of Anton’s legacy is a complete understatement from the video. Just watching it may give you the same idea of where Jindosh’s life is heading if most of his inventions are weapons.
He kind of like an evil Piero, they both wanted to experiment with the void but neither actually could, also note how both have a singular rune in their workshops (Jindosh had his in his lab and Piero carried his around but was definitely studying it).
Yeah, Sokolov was just as bad as Jindosh in his younger years, stabbing Roseburrow in the back when he created tools of war for the lord regent, killing hundreds of innocents while testing new weapons and cure prototypes with absolutely zero hesitation or moral objections... The literal only difference is that Jindosh is slightly more arrogant & eccentric.
@AwesomeGuy123 Piero was definitely studying it. You can see he had a "portal" in the second floor of his workshop (the brick wall) and he was trying to figure out how it would work to go from point a to b. Such a great series. Ive never played a series back to back repeatedly like i did this one.
Jindosh is also a complete sociopath who deserved either ingame outcome even before taking part in a coup. With an ego like his, he would never be an ally to the Empire. Helping the people who broke his machines and f'd up his plans? Not likely. He is known to hold grudges, like with the academy, and being scared to submission is just not who he is. He'd stab Emily in the back the first chance he gets. Maybe if he was locked up for life and under constant supervision, he could be allowed to continue working on advancing science... But then, in that moment there's nowhere to hold Jindosh safely and saving Sokolov is going to be the priority, so does the protagonist really have an option to not deal with Jindosh right there?
I remember putting him in the unsmartinator, and I remember thinking "Isn't this excessive? Jindosh could literally be the next Sokolov if not better". But I also remember thinking "Maybe Jindosh will be smart again in 20 or years later". I think your idea of how it should've went is actually a great idea, and if they made Jindosh attempt revenge based on how low or high the chaos is, that would've been really cool too.
There's an audio recording that the brainshock he received was temporary, or atleast he was starting to remember things atleast. I hope Arkane considers our video for determining Jindosh's future if ever there's going to be a Dishonored 3.
They continued the story in the 3rd book, the veiled terror.🙂 Billy Lurk is the main protagonist and it's all about the events after the outsider is gone. There's a lot to talk about it but I'm halfway done reading it.
I totally agree with what you’ve said, I used the machine on him in my clean hands run other than that I always end up killing him even after turning his mind into jelly. I mean well, eliminating him with the machine has the element of irony, like the grand inventor who once held status and position is rotting in jail with a useless brain which is obviously way better than killing him because he will die but still has his name shining, cmon the empress won’t say that she actually killed him so no one is gonna the truth. BUT He is a mastermind. Even the clockwork soldiers who were the basically the main reason jindosh is actually a target, are still being used and even remodeled in Death of the outsider so We kill him and we still use and even develop his cursed inventions? Which brings me to another point, in high chaos Jindosh is bad, the outsider says that he made a mini machine from a dead car for an aristocratic child which left the child in an asylum to this day. But however, since the story changes and low chaos is canon, What is jindosh’s part in the coup? He had no reason to bring Delilah back. Hypatia was poisoned by the Duke The Duke and Brianna are actually the ones who wanted Delilah Stilton just wanted to seem cool among them But Jindosh? He has no frickin reason, like yeah he is the Grad inventor and he basically works under the duke but that’s not a reason I could have accepted it if jindosh was forced by the duke but No. like all of this because of some machines that we actually still uses after his death? No sense He could’ve turned into an Ally just like Stilton and The empire could have used him instead of Sokolov. Great insights.
I think it was a toy made out of bones from a couple of cats,made for an aristocrat child that turned her mad. Just like how he lost his membership in the academy and two fingers, the details are left ambiguous as to what really happened. He is a perfectly balanced character in terms of good or evil IMO, still worth saving as an ally kept under close watch. I replayed the mission before I made this video, to see if there was a way to turn off the machine when he pleads for his mind,there was none. There is hope though, on a later level we can hear a recording of him regaining some of his lost memory, to what extent he will remember, we can only guess. Arkane tends to favor good endings(low chaos) as canon, indicated by the state of the world in D2 and DoTO.
@@ThatOtherGamer the recording in mission 8 actually proves jindosh as the fool he became and in the low chaos canon council ending we see both him and brianna in cuffs so idk. I loved jindosh and his voice overs during playing mission 4.
Indeed, his voice is just perfect for his role. I read somewhere the voice actor auditioned to play corvo but was given to a big shot and he got Jindosh. Talk about perfect landings lol.
as i recall, there's a audio log or note in his level where he straight up states that he doesn't really have any animosity toward emily/corvo, it's mostly a desire to show up sokolov/go down in history which is kinda weak, but sadly realistic
I don't know if there was an audio recording,but I did find a diary page stating the same thing. Which was actually what prompted me to create this video.
My favorite thing about Dishonored is that the non-lethal options for dealing with targets is always a fate worse than death for them. I may not want to kill them, but I want them to suffer.
This really bugged me and was one of the reasons I dropped Dishonored 2 and didnt return until now. I dont understand how they could get this so wrong, when not only did they get it right in the first game, but they kept reminding us of sparring Sokolov as Corvo. It makes zero sense for Corvo to kill Jindosh. It makes very little sense for Emily to kill Jindosh, since she was so close to Anton Sokolov and knew that he started up as an enemy. I am reminded that some dumb Roman soldier nobody killed Archimedes when he was hard at work. What if he was on the brink of discovering something that could have changed the entire history. "Do not disturb my circles, Emily".
Not sure if you've read the book Dishonored:The Return of Daud but in one chapter, Sokolov had a Lecture in Serkonos surrounding a crystal found in Pandyssia that is hinted to be linked to the void. In attendance was Jindosh, described sketching a design in his notebook after the presentation. Sigh, what a waste to kill him.
The circumstances surrounding Sokolov were not at all comparable to Jindosh. For one, Sokolov derived zero pleasure in seeing his test subjects suffer and even lied to them that they would survive the treatment to ease their minds. Jindosh, however, derives pleasure from making others suffer. Secondly, Sokolov was not an obstacle in Corvo's path. The Loyalists needed him because he knew who was giving the Regent his financial backing so Corvo could take them out. Jindosh, however, was firmly allied with Delilah. Merely threatening to destroy his mind would be foolish. He could easily go into hiding and support his co-conspirators from the shadows, and Corvo/Emily would have wasted their time. Take off your rose-tinted glasses, this was completely in-character and there was no other way.
@@ibn_adham Thankyou He is loyal to Delilah recruiting him wouldn't make sense. Also Killing him isn't Canon so I didn't find anything wrong with this game. It's more like a free choice
Jindosh is not at all like Sokolov, yeah he was a great inventor, but Jindosh is a sadist with a power hunger, he was in fact on the brink of discovering something that would change the entire history, what was it ? how to create an army of clockwork soldiers, its the reason why he had Sokolov, in-game he mentions his desire to achieve that goal and seems to be the only thing on his mind apart from toying with his "visitors", on the anatomy section of his main lab there's a bunch of corpses.
I like to put him in the machine and then send him to the void, just so he can't make a comeback! His friends do deal in magic after all. He is absolutely NOT worth keeping around. When egos are so easily inflated, a person is inclined to get a control seeking god complex. Jindosh would 100 percent turn on Emily and Corvo in the future (especially when he finds out they are responsible for the death of his friends). He may be a genius...problem is, he's an evil genius and that will never change. Jindosh, The Duke and Ashworth need to go. Hypatia and Stilton are worth saving because they do not want to be evil.
In high chaos (or low cuz one or two kills won't affect the chaos rating) usually the only ones I kill are delilah and Ramsey cuz his fate ends the same either way and she deserves it, with everyone else I'm taking from them the things they cherish most like Jindosh his mind and Ashworth her magic. I take from them everything and leave them to a life of sorrow and pain knowing they can never get back what they lost. I find it more enjoyable like that.
And yeah, I agree. I don't believe in killing Jindosh, he just seem like a misguided man, and honestly so was Sokolov in Dishonored 1, but looked at how his redemption. But in my playthroughs aside from the first, I've always killed him cause I find the nonlethal one way too cruel.
Thanks,Rae!😄 Yes,I agree with you. There was a hint in a later mission that the shock effects were temporary so I'm hoping for the best for him in the next game. Not sure if you found it already so i won't spoil it.
You got a point, a man capable of doing all these surely could bring another age of enlightment much brighter than sokolovs, another thing is when the Delilah falls what hes even going to do? Escape to other isles? no and even so the whole isles are a one big empire it won't take that much time to find a genius with a disctinct look, lastly he probably would collabrate if he was given the resouces he wants for his inventions.
Yes,he would not last very long by himself and without a great purpose. I don't really see any reason why he would not cooperate if given the resources and a task that would make his wish (written in his personal diary) come true.
@@ThatOtherGamer i see a comment saying they couldn't add it because of budget restrictions so maybe they would do that if it weren't for the budget being limited, i really hate when a game couldn't reach its full potential its like a unfinished painting
@@ThatOtherGamer i don't think that there will be another game, all the enemies that might "dishonor" our characters are gone like Delilah, even if she learns that shes in a painting what would it change she has eveything she wants there and does not require to fight for it, Likewise, Daud can't be a villian both because the guilt and because the thing that happend in Death of the Outsider and while i open the Outsidertopic he is either dead or no longer a god so they would need a good excecuse to implement magic to 3rd game
I wouldn't close the door to another game so soon. In my opinion,I think there's room for one more which I speculate has something to do with the fall of the empire.
fair play. you made a better argument for sparing him than i expected. the thing is, we dont know WHY he was kicked out of the academy. the dude could be wholly diabolical and untrustworthy. but, as you say, if he could be tamed he certainly would be an asset!
in high chaos the outsider mentions how he made things from dead cats, beyond having no restraints in torturing and doing the same mind wipe to sokolov. he was always an horrible human beeing who didn't care for the life of others and the non-lethal aproach is fitting for someone like him
anyone else that found it weird that Jindosh's clockwork soldiers were still being produced after you discard of either him or his genius in death of the outsider? here I was thinking we've effectively destroyed their production/refinement only to discover that the Eyeless and whoever else (idk I got bored of the death of the outsider after two missions) are using upgraded versions of his initial designs...
I didnt watch the full video but one thing to point out is, like Sokolov he was never really against you out of hate or trying to take over the empire he was just paid to do a job
@@ThatOtherGamer Hey so I ended up watching the full video and the only problem with your thought process is that sparing him takes away his genius anyways?
In the Grand Palace mission, you can get into the Duke office. There is an audiograph showing that Jindosh killed and tortured innocent people for his experiment, so...
I agree about all the reasons you mentioned, but i remember that somewhere near the assessment chamber you find a letter with a dead body been eaten by bloodflies, the letter describes how monstrous and cruel Jindosh is. Emily also confirms her choice of getting rid of him once she reads that letter. i think the message behind this lore was that even brilliant and genius individuals deserve to pay the price of the harm they caused, directly or indirectly.
Also for people saying he deserved to die, don't forget about what Solokov did to that poor woman in the cell in the first game to cure the rat plague. There's many other hints to things he does as well. One such as Deliah making a reference to being his "student" for a better lack of a term. U can make ur own theories on what she means by that.
This is like the German scientists in WW2 basically, there are a lot of merits on why he should be spared or not. We really needed a 3rd option, but either way he should pay for the coup.
My thoughts too, considering what jindosh could achieve & what the empire needs no matter who's on the throne, the idea of wasting him was just horrible & practically spelled death for the nation's future. Dunwall's lucky to have good friends. In the real world they would have been legally invaded during Delilah's reign or after she's dethroned.
When I saw his diary page, I knew he could be reasoned with. That's a good point about invasion by the way. If Dunwall was not allied with Tyvia or Gristol, they would have taken advantage of the coup. Provided they could handle dark magic.
In High Chaos,the Outsider tells a different story about Jindosh. That he created a toy to a girl, but after the girl started playing she became mad (or something among these lines). Even if Jindosh is a genius, he is a sadistic bastard that got what he deserved. Let's not forget that the chair you used to melt his brain was designed by Jindosh himself to strip Sokolov of his free will. "He is too dangerous to be left alive".
this. this is why i rarely watch this kind if video it makes me wanna restart my game (sometimes almost 99% completed) to just change this small things still tho, pretty good video
You don't have to replay it. Jindosh's fate is set in stone for now, lethal or not. This video is an opinion on what Arkane should do with his character in the next game. Thanks for checking out the vid!👍
Yeah I’ve always thought he would’ve been more useful than dead or should be dead the way his mind is ravaged and basically destroyed what was. He would’ve been more useful as per se a captive or at the very least given a position suitable to his talents.
Agreed. The non lethal option was just cruel,probably worse than killing him. Hopefully the audio recording at a later mission was a hint that the memory wipe was temporary.
With Jindosh the empire would have made a huge technological leap. His lack of ethics would have been a problem though and even if Corvo tried to keep him in line he likely would have rebelled at some stage. In DOTO we learn Jindosh programmed the clockwork soldiers with a verbal override command so they could never be used against him. I could see him using that or something similar once he was left to his own devices. Personally a third option of letting him live but under supervision would have been nice, but maybe the writers didn't want to leave it too open ended.
Jindosh can be convinced in one way or another imo. People like him tend to live in their own world, when he sees the horrors he has brought to Dunwall he might reconsider his actions. Either that or the machine does, however, I would make him understand that working for Delilah isn't any better since she will have him killed if he disobeys as well, now that she does not even need him anymore, as she has achieved her goals.
I agree that the grand inventor can be reasoned with. Even if he was loyal to Delilah,she's gone by the end of D2. Also,there's that diary page as concrete proof that he can be swayed.
Just gonna note that Emily would 100% be more wanting of the clockwork soldiers based on both of their reactions at the beginning of the game Emily getting excited whereas forgo being wary of them
You may be right. It's been a while since my last playthrough but my impression on both protagonists' overall perception towards the CSs is a lethal tool that can be useful.
People forget that this man is a psychopath. All the bad stuff Sokolov did in the first game including imprisoning and testing on people is multiplied by 10 in Jindosh. He doesn’t care about others and you can see evil in most of the stuff he makes.
I never really paid too much attention with high chaos timeline,because it's entirely separate from what Arkane considered canon which is low chaos(except for one kill I recently discovered in the books). I think I know what you're referring to though,atleast with regards to Jindosh's fate,or what's left of him.😆
I feel like a better route would have been that instead of lobotomy the Electroshock Machine was to brainwash Sokolov and Jindosh had just finished it as we arrived, which if we were to sneak into the mansion we could make it so Jindosh brings Sokolov to his lab for us and we can knock out Jindosh and save Sokolov and brainwash Jindosh, but Jindosh is knocked out like Sokolov so we similarly have to carry him to the skiff, and in the next mission Jindosh can give us a hint on how to possibly get into the Conservatory and in the ending we get a different version of the Sokolov one where instead of him leaving alone, Jindosh is on the boat with him and they both are traveling to Tyvia, Sokolov to return home, while for Jindosh it’s to study the wildlife or something like that.
I suggested to zap him just to scare him into submission. If you rewatch the electrocution scene, I stopped the device right after he begged to,when he still have all his mental faculties.🙂
@@ThatOtherGamer Yes, you are right. I apologize, I commented before I watched the video till the end. Though, my personal opinion is still that he was not meant to be spared.
I would have preferred if there was a HIgh Chaos, Non Lethal option. You show him the Void and he goes crazy and just makes devious machines......well, more devious than normal and he goes down in history as a mad inventor or something.
I heard this and haven't been able to test it yet , but I heard that if you stop the machine before it fully fries Kirin's brain, Emily (Or Corvo not sure which) Will say something along the lines of "If you betray me you're dead" Or something like that , and apparently that's a way of leaving Kirin alive and with his mind intact , although I am not sure this is true .
You are right as far as his loyalty has nothing to do with his part in the betrayal. The problem is, he is arrogant and far to fond of himself. He would work for anyone who supports him like Abele did. So he is not loyal to Delilah or Luka but neither he is to Emily or Corvo. His loyality ends with financial ressources for his work and excitement. So he will be a wildcard and straight after a conspiracy like that which questions the legitimacy of the past two empresses (and those thoughts will stay in the public, even if we get the good ending) he is to dangerous even though he is a genius in any posible way. As much as I'd love to see what Dunwall and the empire would become with his talents I'm quite sure he would betray Emily again at least at the second opportunitity or as soon as he gets bored. An other Problem is, like you said, Dunwall has several issues to adress but there are just a few needs for new inventions in the short run. And for process optimising he is overqualified which means he would be expensive and he would get bored quickly which results in betreyal if he has the oportunity. If he had straight up political reasons for his doings, things may be different because those issues can be adressed but his only motivation was money (even if he has enough, you can be as clever as you want, without money you can not build such a mansion) and a opportunity to test his new invention. Another issue with him, every penny the empire would give him he will waste. A man who builds such a house (he doesn't need to, the house and the porperty is big enough to fit in every room for every activity you could dream of) is a lunatic who has no relation to money, a bad reputation in an official posision like "inventor of the empress". And he doesn't care about anyone asside him self. I don't mean loyalty but just basic things like staying alive. When he notices you, he basicly says "get wrecked son of a b*". And if you play a ghost playthrough you might stumble across the corpse of another unluky bastard who got stuck because of a clockwork soldier and just starved. Jindosh doesn't even mind to get rid of the body, call the guard or at least inform the family. And at least his servants would have recogniced it, if you have ever entered a room with a body inside, you would recognice a distinct smell. But he didn't even care enough to throw him over the balcony down the cliff or at least tell anyone else to do so. And following idea is funny. Imagine this spech by Emily: "dear habitants of dunwall, i'd like to introduce you the new high inventor, Kirin Jindosh. Some of you might recognice him because he builded the clockwork soldiers who killed everyone who was loyal to me and his clockwork house were he held Anton Sokolov, friend of my father and my former teacher, as a hostage. Furthermore he tried to kill me. Appouse for your new high inventor." As a citicen I would wonder about the lightpole my empress teleported into. He is ignorant, egocentric and an egoist, without any conviction, builds his selfesteem over a variety of mashines which were made to kill anyone, he is a straightup lunatic and doesn't bring any qualites besides his talent which makes him suitable for the role in a future empire like you suggested. This is just my humble oppinion and maybe there is more to it than I see but right now, i make him loose his mind. This makes him way less dangerous for the Empire or every human being he might meet.
Thanks for your comment. A lot of your points are valid concerns over Jindosh's character,however, I believe there is a way around those issues which I'll address in the part 2 of this video.
When he started beging to stop first thing I tried to do is pull lever again but then saw I can't do anything and felt bad because I was going for clean hands achievement i left him like that but now I always kill him because it's an act of mercy in this case espacially because he said that atleast he will die knowing more than anyone
The ones that were made before Jindosh's demise are the last ones in existence afaik. His mansion is abandoned since then(according to the 2nd book), and no one dare manufacture them because of the high cost and the lack of know how.
The problem with Jindosh is that he is way too centered in himself and his own ego. He doesn't care about the future or next generations, he wants to be important, he wants glory, and if at any point he thinks that betraying the Empress and Lord Protector will give him bigger chances of accomplishing that he will do it without any hessitation. It is a huge loss and delay in technological progress, and he could theoretically be spared but Corvo would always have to keep an eye on him, because he is a menace to the crown. I don't think a death threat is enough to deter that man from trying to achieve greatness. And lobotomizing him is basically the same as death. To be fair, I don't think he would really mind dying, I even think the only reason for which he REALLY wants to stay alive and save his mind is because he ISN'T DONE YET, which is absolutely scary
I wish you could just leave him alone. Save Sokolov and leave. I tried to do that, knocked him out, left him on the chandelier in his laboratory and went to see Megan.. I then had to take a walk to his mansion again to electrify him.
I've always wondered about this as well. Killing off a great mind because he's politically opposed to you is quite unwise. Most inventors and scientists barely care about their political alignment as long as they have the resources to pursue their passion.
@@ThatOtherGamer there is hope in dishonored 3 , they might bring him back after years of retraining under sokolov , what will explain why his memories/knowledge got restored . maybe even gain some sympathy .
A solution that I think would be nice for the player but not too time consuming for the devs : add the option to get him back to the boat as an hostage. I can understand why Meagan would say no to the Crown Killer, a Witch or the Duke as hostages. But this guy could just be reported missing, and you would treat him like Sokolov in Dishonored 1, caged in the room where Hypatia used to stay. Maybe in high chaos he would just starve there or be killed during the night by a revengeful Meagan. The best would obviously to have some little conversation between him and Sokolov, something like that (inspired by his books of voyage and dishonored 1) : "I think I understand how you feel, Jindosh. I guess you've already heard of Piero Joplin? Brillant mind he was, incredible even! My misplaced ego at the time forced me to have him rejected from the Academy, just like you were thrown out by the current administration... Then I met the man, and over only a few exchanges we made *this *, the formula that finally eradicated the Rat Plague. But we also invented devices that could kill millions in the faction of a second! Technology that would make your mechanical soldiers look like toys. With our minds combined we could've brought any Empire to its knees! So we parted ways, agreeing that our mutual input was better used in times of crisis, and I went on to travel the world. Tell me Jindosh, have you ever left Sekonos before? Have you tried to see what was beyond these civilizations you could so easily conquer? The World is much bigger than our little Empire, I can tell you... and much stranger. If I get the strength I hope to see more of it before I fade to the Void, so I can look the Outsider himself right in the eyes and stand proud. Anyways, what you do now is up to you... with this brillant mind of yours you could become the Emperor himself, but then you would cease to be a natural philosopher."
NB: i know the Outsider is not really a religious icon in this world but given that Sokolov spent a lot of time trying to contact him (as the Outsider himself tells us in Dishonored 1) I think he would fantasize about the idea of meeting "the Black Eyed God" at least once after death, just to tell me "lol i don't care".
I haven't pondered on what would happen if Corvo sent Sokolov to have a talk with Jindosh,but maybe that could have worked. Did you come up with those lines?Pretty good. The viewers who left a comment here are split between sparing him or not,which makes Jindosh even more interesting.
@@ThatOtherGamer Yeah, that monologue was just me making things up. I'm replaying the games these days and I think Sokolov is my favorite character. This time replaying Dishonored 2 I actually read all the books he wrote about his travels, and it's fascinating to know there is way more to this world than what the games let us see. Also there is a small "quest "in Dishonored 2 that leads you to a cult a of the Void (not of the Outsider himself), which I think I missed during my first play through. It was funny because the final journal basically says "Going to the Void is hard but we could get more Whale Oil there, and countless new ressources!". Making it obvious that 1) everyone has seen the void in Dreams. I was wondering that because in Dishonored 1, you can see Emily having bad dreams and saying things like "What is this place? Why are you eyes so black?". I thought it was just Corvo's influence on Emily, but Dishonored 2 confirmed that everyone had such dreams. 2) oil is getting low like you said in your video. 3) most people don't really cherish the Void as Heaven, just like a place that physically exists and can be conquered. 4) People prefer to think about crazy esoteric ways to get oil than to explore new possibilities.
@@ThatOtherGamer Also it's funny because even in your video you assume Corvo did the thing. For me Dishonored 2 is the story of an Empress seeing her kingdom up close for the first time. I only played Corvo once and it was for a high chaos No Powers run.
Sure he's brilliant. He's also horrifyingly sadistic to his staff and a self-absorbed narcissist who is perfectly okay with being all of this. To say nothing of course of how he treats Sokolov, going from trying to find a way to make him comply while keeping his creative parts of his brain intact to simply torturing the man for its own sake.
Jindosh is a bad person because he doesn't care what he puts his genius to doing. There is no redeeming him because he has no moral compass, and the entire theme of the game is that Emily and Corvo don't have a talent for intervening when they should.
Good video and you make really good points. Kirin seemed like a douchebag to me because of how he talks but he was still a genius who could make the empire thrive. I hope if they even make a Dishonored 3, they retcon it so the electro shock chair effect is not permament and he gains his intellect back.
Yes,he really is an undesirable character but his talents are needed by the empire. Not to spoil anything but if you have the time,re-play Dishonored 2's Duke mission and listen to an audio recording found in an office. Thanks for watching,Mehmet.
It is a waste but what is the point of keeping him if he's not using his talents benevolently? By the time we meet him he contributed to the death and suffering of many and protection of a corrupt regime. Same with sokolov, but he got to amend for some of it with the creation of the cure against the plague, but he still paid dearly for it. Would Kirin Jindosh even work with the Empire, and who's to say he wouldn't betray it (again) at the first chance he gets?
Hear me out. What if Corvo/emily realizes the error in destroying such a mind, and they do a do-over with the time piece? I thought knocking out Aramis Stilton was way too convenient. And Aramis losing his mind to a very laclustre ritual was kinda lame too. Dishonored 3, Mark the previous outsider, now has to undo certain errors or/strive to be an outsider that takes benevolent accountability and retakes his mantle at the end of the story to usher the world in a new age.
I'd like to add some points also why kiling him is unnecessary. Firstly, like you said, Jindosh has little care for politics which is exactly a very similar attitude like Sokolov's towards the regime. If you played the first game, Sokolov also expressed that he didn't care whether it was Lord Regent or the Kaldwins who rules the Empire as long as his research and projects are not interrupted. Ambiguous loyalty, although dangerous can be nurtured like how in the last 15 years Sokolov grows much fondness towards Corvo and Emily also how he risked his life to uncover the truth of the Crown Killer. Secondly, between him and Sokolov, Anton Sokolov is way worse than Jindosh, how he then used human experimentation for his rat plague elixir and untold disgusting things that he did in order to reach out the Outsider. I think Corvo understood the complications of killing Sokolov during the rat plague. His believe paid off when Sokolov and Piero found the cure for the rat plague and invented many other things. Lastly, well I killed him anyway because the clankers are annoying and his nutcracker execution is the funniest 😂
@@ThatOtherGamer Didn't even think about that, I was having a few drinks while playing last night then I had that thought "well why don't I just knock him out and walk away?" Made sense to my drunk brain in the moment haha😅. There really should have been a prompt to stop the electroshock chair, im with you 100% on that.
Someone in the comments said that sparing jindosh was on the table of Arkane's plans for the game, but they scrapped it because of budget restrictions. Glad you're having fun with the game, the mechanism of Jindosh's house is still amazing by today's standards of level design.
I just finished my playthrough of Dishonored 2, after not replaying it for about 8 years(can't believe i never got aroumd to it, guess i was busy with games lol), going through a second playthrough rn. Disappointed as well as u for not having the ability to save him. Its like what America did with the Nazi scientists, a lot of good came from those minds regardless of their moral standing. I honestly wish Kirin Jindosh was the main villain of the game and every level would have u going through some crazy genius maze or new creative inventions that forces the player to really reach for creativity with the powers. Such a wasted opportunity as I'm sure most people agree the clockwork mansion is their fav mission in the game.
Hi,Wayne. Thanks for watching! Yes,the clockwork mansion is a masterpiece of level design. I think Jindosh would've been useful alive,especially when there's solid proof that he wasn't a die-hard Delilah loyalist. If D3 comes out,the protagonist is also going to need an inventive genius,and since Piero is gone and Sokolov is retired,he would've been an excellent replacement. It's quite a shame.
So.. You want to spare the man who gave Delilah all these robot soldiers and wsnted to lobotomise Sokolov? Yeah, I don't think so. He deserves to die, but non-lethal is just as good because you give him a taste of his own medicine.
Thanks!🙏There's hope for Jindosh's character in a non lethal playthrough. In a later mission, there's an audio recording of him regaining some of his memory.
Jindosh is a full on psychopath. The things he did to get kicked out of the academy for good are probably so horrible they wanted to bury that history completely. Who knows, he might have build that seawater drinking robot by mutilating a talented musician into a robotic form of continuous torture. No matter how valuable a mind is, for things Jindosh has done and would do again in a heartbeat, he is to dangerous to be left to invent. Yes he could find better power sources, he could bring a golden age. But how many lives would have to be lost to his sick unethical ways before that would happen? In my opinion, no amount of community worth is enough to set a man like jindosh free. He doesnt care for delilah, but that is because he cares only about himself and cares not how much hurt he inflicts. But if we were to have used the machine to change him to reflect and turn, then I could see this as a favorable outcome. But only because we "burn away his evil" so to say
I assume you've finished the game already? In a later mission there's an audio recording that hints his electro-amnesia is temporary. We have that atleast😄.
Personally I believe that Jindosh is a narcissist and he can't be trusted. When someone like Jindosh has betrayed once, do not give him a 2nd chance. But I could be wrong. 🥓🥓
Thank you, dear viewers, for posting your comments on this topic. I will post an update to this video as a sort of response, and further arguments as to why he's worth sparing.
Whats even sadder us that Dana, the level designer, actually wanted there to be a 3rd option where you would leave Jindosh alone without lobotomizing him but couldn't implement it due to budget restrictions :(
That's too bad.🤔 I actually tried doing that in a re-play,but the game won't let me finish the mission.
I wonder just how that would go down? to keep his mind from producing the clock work soldiers? he said the device could be used to manipulate the mind in a more gentle way. He wanted to use it on Sokolav to make him willing to work on cheaper clockworks.
But what if, through a much more complex and inspective way... we could do the opposite to Jindosh. Destroy every clockwork he had in the mansion, burn all his records and material on the clockwork soldier design. and of course... use his machine to wipe the very memory of the clockwork soldier from him.
if only somone could mod the game giving a 3rd option to each enemy
honestly the best thing we coulda done was just kidnap him and keep him as prisoner in the dreadful wale/dunwall tower, his mind was too great for the world
@@dolan3623 I imagine he just wakes up begs for mercy and then he just forgets the stuff he was making, but still remembers some stuff or just “no” and then walking out
Actually, Jindosh could have been captured to the Dreadful Whale and let go after Emily is back on the throne. Piero had differences with Sokolov too - but they became friends after a short while together.
You're ignoring the fact that he is part of the conspiracy that wanted Delilah on the throne, and was there for her ritualistic return. I don't think it would be plausible to just, "let him go."
@@Envoiden so what? Yeah, he commited a severe crime and would deserve punishment by law. Even death. But since he is an exceptional fellow, he could just be left working for society. He didn't care a thing for Delilah or other villains after all and wouldn't work towards her any-how return, if he saw that he is provided with resources regardless.
@@ever-modern That being true, he didn't stray away from evil when given it coincides with something that benefits him. He is willing to raise the dead by conjuring a void ghost to overthrow the throne and labotomise the "greatest mind" of the rat plague to purely streamline his wants and needs. He might not be evil, but he certainly is a bad person who would be more than willing to do it all again.
@@Envoiden yeah, that's the danger about him. Making the idea to spare him not that outright correct. It's just that possible gain of this decision is very high, but the risk is very high too. IMHO it's worth it. But I totally understand disaproval of unleashing this sociopath out again, though. Finishing argument to me, personally, is that this guy is a very scarce asset and cannot be disposed of. Take all the safety measures, but keep him producing his output. That makes a hard managerial task, but still.
@@Envoiden You over-darken his actions a bit. All that magic and betrayal stuff was just a means to an end to him. And the end was a creative one - not destructive.
Your voiceover impersonation of Corvo was actually elite, I'd have loved to have such an option in game
Thanks!😎👍
Killing him really is a mistake but i guess the whole story of this game was about corvo/emily getting revenge which is why everyone involved in delilah’s inner circle is either left useless like ashworth or jindosh or straight up killed but thats just my theory
That's the beauty of the series. A simple revenge plotline is something Arkane considered among others, so your theory is just as valid,albeit from a different perspective.
The narrative really works a lot better with Emily: an out of touch princess turned queen loses everything and has to prove she's worthy by earning her place back on the throne. Corvo is basically the same revenge story we had in the first game.
Correct. Both in the later game and in the comics, it is confirmed that Emily's storyline is canon.
@@waltlock8805 I agree with most of what you said except the part where "she was out of touch." Don't pretend that she didn't go through shit and struggle vastly in Dishonored 1 and its aftermath.
@@eskadoodle23I whole heartily agree She witnessed her mother being killed in front of her. Was going to be used as a tool for politics. Also planned to be a vessel for her Aunt Delilah. Leading up to Dishonored 2 where many don't have full faith in her leadership yet those who stood by her was mercilessly killed by Delilah and the Dukes hounds that joined their side. Corvo may have lost a lover and was framed for her murder. But Emily lost more
Talking about the lore.. if you try heart on Jindosh - Jessamina tells you that Kirin has been a psychopath since his early childhood. He also refused to have any ethics during his researches so it is absolutely impossible that he would comply with the new regime of Emily and Corvo who would restrict him a lot. In the game his character benefits a lot from the corrupted regime of the duke, and will feel much more uncomfortable under Emily’s rule. On the other hand Corvo or Emily could not leave him alive and free because it was not guaranteed that they will finish Duke and Dalila soon and meanwhile Jindosh could succeed to build the army of robots at any moment.
Thanks for the comment.👍Your opinion will be addressed in the part 2 of this video.
@@ThatOtherGamer on this note the outsider also mentioned that he was hired to make a toy/gift for some nobles child and after it was turned on it drove her mad, so no i don't think sparing him was ever a real option.
The problem with that story is the lack of context,we don't know why the girl went mad and if it was intentional or not. It's also a dialogue in high chaos mode if I remember correctly,which is a separate timeline.
@@ThatOtherGamer high chaos doesn't change past events and yes we do, the gift drove her mad, in fact that could be the event not known to the public that he was kicked out of the academy for and by your logic of lack of context how do you know that the music box that ran on seawater wasn't that gift using void music to make everyone cry and drive them mad and that is why it was taken apart to never work again, also as the OP pointed out "if you try heart on Jindosh - Jessamina tells you that Kirin has been a psychopath since his early childhood" so yeah it seems safe to assume the worst
The gift drove her mad,but how exactly?By accident or by design? The music box is not the reason he was kicked out,as the outsider said it is an event not made public. The music box is not the thing that ran on seawater,it's a different invention. Also,there's no mention of any void music being played in that cutscene that made everyone cry.
In the first game we kidnapped Sokolov and kept him captive until he was on our side. In the 2nd game, it shows he was a valuable ally and friend so sparing his genius ultimately paid off. It’s a shame we couldn’t have done the same for Jindosh… :/
According to Arkane, it's because of budget cuts. I'm perplexed by that alibi though, I feel like there was a way to spare him without having to spend a lot.
@@ThatOtherGamer Indeed - I mean, how much would it have taken? A small extension to the scene, like 20-30 seconds, and a panel in the game ending sequence. It's not like he'd have had to come to the ship like Sokolov.
Yes,exactly. I wonder if that's their way of killing off the character entirely. I hope not.
@@ThatOtherGamer a time issue would be a more convincing alibi though, like how the final level was too simple compared to Clockwork Mnasion and The Edge of the world( the dust mine) looks like they're out of time before the due date.
I consider time constraints and budget restrictions as two eggs in the same basket. But yes,that is a likely possibility too.
A parallel can easily be drawn between Jindosh and Sokolov, a young inventor who's caught up in 'progress' so much that they don't see that the actions they preform have consequences. J is really a PoS, no matter what IQ his brian retains, he will always have an evil mind. Even after his 'lobotmization' he recounts with a certain glee how he found a beetle and pulled it's legs off. Smart or dumb the guy has a nasty soul, and that's something you can't sort out. The third option of scaring him into allegiance is really interesting just to see this chin-up holier-than-thou person realize that they aren't untouchable. Jindosh does exist on the same plane as everyone else. To see him shaken by reality like this would have been fantastic, sure he has all the things he creates/thinks up, but when you wake up with a horse's head in your bed you'll sober up real quick.
Honestly idk how they could portray sokolov as such a good guy when he also was responsible for horrible atrocities to innocent people who died in painful torturous ways regardless of the end goal. He treated people like test subjects. He isn't a funny good uncle guy that D2 treats him like
@@lonearachnid6591 He's had 15 years to realize what he did was wrong, 15 years of character growth. The game doesn't ignore what he did, but the whole point of the game is that these things aren't quite black-and-white, especially with characters like Daud, Billie Lurk and especially Sokolov. Not to mention the fact that Sokolov was close to Emily, being the royal physician for many years before and after the events of the first game.
@@toasterofdoom9629 agreed, but the game doesn't show both sides. My point is it LOOKS white when it's supposed to be grey
@@toasterofdoom9629 i know its an old comment but the game definitely retcons some parts of sokolovs character in the first game to make it seem like he was more principled and redeeming. it's kind of minor but how they portray Sokolovs interrogation from the first game really bothers me. You could literally have him betray his employer by buying him brandy but in the second game it's made out as though he resisted hours of interrogation.
@@lachlancrimmings2235 that's a story he has to tell so that no one knows how easy it is to buy him. Also, I think the Loyalists HAD spent hours interrogating him by the time Corvo woke up. I kust played through 1 and I'm almost certain that's what I remember them saying
Jindosh helped stage a coup. He gets what he deserves. He was known to be a terrible person. Brilliant mind or not he was too dangerous to be left untouched.
Skill outweighs virtue. Virtue doesn't put food on the table. He should've been imprisoned and put to work.
@@sgtsaltstick2729 Hard disagree. Without virtue, survival and comfort are empty and meaningless.
@@hatncloak45 Ok buddha.
Spit on your family, donate to charity.
@@sgtsaltstick2729 learn how to argue politely and be respectful. He was polite to you, why don't you be polite to him?
@@Jules-69lol Alright, a better arguement then.
Imagine you've found a genius above einstein but he's an enemy. Yes you could fry his brain or kill him in order to put an end to further development in your hostile forces arsenal.
Or you could capture him and offer benefits if he's willing to work under supervision for an extended period.
These perks could end up saving the lives of your comrades. It's merciful towards your prisoner of war. Everybody wins.
This is forgiveness further motivated by greed. But better than blind vengeance.
Justice will never truly be dispensed in the hearts of the people he has hurt and killed.
But looking past that and seeing what he CAN do, then providing him with what's necessary to do so.
That's virtue.
Jindosh deserved better, maybe he can't be fixed or tamed, but wasting such a gift to the world would be the greatest embarassments one could make.
I think in the 48 rules of power there is one that says you should put enemies down FOR GOOD one way or another, dead or alive. If you spare them strength, they will take their time to build up again and plot their revenge. It is incredibly reckless and dangerous to leave an enemy capable.
I always felt like Jindosh’s non-lethal option is by far the harshest out of the entire series, but given that he was going to use the machine on Sokolov, I don’t feel to bad using it on him especially since he’s mostly in a state of confusion and blissful ignorance.
If it was just for schadenfreude and the empire had no use for him,I would have used the chair on him too.
In the series? Idk man, you can send Lady Boyle to a rape dungeon for the rest of her life, that’s pretty bad.
I reckon the punishment of the twins in the first game is probably the harshest tbh; having your tongue cut out and sold to a silver mine to live out your days as a slave is harrowing.
@@Mrjmaxted0291nah but they are working at they own mine
Jindosh is basically the younger version of Anton. If you remember the Tales of Dunwall animation series, there was a backstory to Roesburrow, the man who discovered the used of whale oil as a fuel resource. When he partner up with a young Anton for his inventions, Anton ushered Dunwall into a new age of technology at the cost of the civilians livelihood, to the point where Roseburrow committed suicide out of guilt and regret. Jindosh’s Clockwork soldiers were just the beginning of the same history being repeated. Anton had grown to eventually regret many of his actions, and I believe that Jindosh would’ve reached that same conclusion too, given time into his twilight years. The only difference was Jindosh’s involvement with the occult, which Anton never had much success in. If Jindosh could tapped into the Void and did research on it, it could be catastrophic.
Thank you for sharing this info. I was not even aware that there was an animation. I'd have to watch that,very interesting.
@@ThatOtherGamer It was a great promotional videos before the release of the first game. My description of Anton’s legacy is a complete understatement from the video. Just watching it may give you the same idea of where Jindosh’s life is heading if most of his inventions are weapons.
He kind of like an evil Piero, they both wanted to experiment with the void but neither actually could, also note how both have a singular rune in their workshops (Jindosh had his in his lab and Piero carried his around but was definitely studying it).
Yeah, Sokolov was just as bad as Jindosh in his younger years, stabbing Roseburrow in the back when he created tools of war for the lord regent, killing hundreds of innocents while testing new weapons and cure prototypes with absolutely zero hesitation or moral objections...
The literal only difference is that Jindosh is slightly more arrogant & eccentric.
@AwesomeGuy123 Piero was definitely studying it. You can see he had a "portal" in the second floor of his workshop (the brick wall) and he was trying to figure out how it would work to go from point a to b. Such a great series. Ive never played a series back to back repeatedly like i did this one.
3:10 the story i heard was about how he made a robot out of a dead cat for a child that scared her so bad she lives in a nursing home now
He looks like the victorian era Tony Stark
Yes,that iconic mustache is a common feature among rich geniuses it seems. Andrew Ryan of Bioshock has it too.😂
Finally someone acknowledges the brilliant mind of Kirin Jundosh ;)
He is,and would be of a big help to the empire with the right safeguards and motivation.
Jindosh is also a complete sociopath who deserved either ingame outcome even before taking part in a coup.
With an ego like his, he would never be an ally to the Empire. Helping the people who broke his machines and f'd up his plans? Not likely. He is known to hold grudges, like with the academy, and being scared to submission is just not who he is. He'd stab Emily in the back the first chance he gets.
Maybe if he was locked up for life and under constant supervision, he could be allowed to continue working on advancing science... But then, in that moment there's nowhere to hold Jindosh safely and saving Sokolov is going to be the priority, so does the protagonist really have an option to not deal with Jindosh right there?
Thank you for your feedback. I will include it in the part II of this video 👍
I was so surprised when you voiced Corvo around the end, it was so well done!!
😄
I remember putting him in the unsmartinator, and I remember thinking "Isn't this excessive? Jindosh could literally be the next Sokolov if not better". But I also remember thinking "Maybe Jindosh will be smart again in 20 or years later". I think your idea of how it should've went is actually a great idea, and if they made Jindosh attempt revenge based on how low or high the chaos is, that would've been really cool too.
There's an audio recording that the brainshock he received was temporary, or atleast he was starting to remember things atleast. I hope Arkane considers our video for determining Jindosh's future if ever there's going to be a Dishonored 3.
@@ThatOtherGamer I hope there is a Dishonored 3. I wonder where they'd take it after the Death Of The Outsider DLC
They continued the story in the 3rd book, the veiled terror.🙂 Billy Lurk is the main protagonist and it's all about the events after the outsider is gone. There's a lot to talk about it but I'm halfway done reading it.
@@mr.pigstashe988Jindosh is dead no matter what fate you decide for him.
I totally agree with what you’ve said, I used the machine on him in my clean hands run other than that I always end up killing him even after turning his mind into jelly.
I mean well, eliminating him with the machine has the element of irony, like the grand inventor who once held status and position is rotting in jail with a useless brain which is obviously way better than killing him because he will die but still has his name shining, cmon the empress won’t say that she actually killed him so no one is gonna the truth.
BUT He is a mastermind. Even the clockwork soldiers who were the basically the main reason jindosh is actually a target, are still being used and even remodeled in Death of the outsider so We kill him and we still use and even develop his cursed inventions?
Which brings me to another point, in high chaos Jindosh is bad, the outsider says that he made a mini machine from a dead car for an aristocratic child which left the child in an asylum to this day.
But however, since the story changes and low chaos is canon, What is jindosh’s part in the coup? He had no reason to bring Delilah back.
Hypatia was poisoned by the Duke
The Duke and Brianna are actually the ones who wanted Delilah
Stilton just wanted to seem cool among them
But Jindosh? He has no frickin reason, like yeah he is the Grad inventor and he basically works under the duke but that’s not a reason
I could have accepted it if jindosh was forced by the duke but No.
like all of this because of some machines that we actually still uses after his death? No sense
He could’ve turned into an Ally just like Stilton and The empire could have used him instead of Sokolov.
Great insights.
I think it was a toy made out of bones from a couple of cats,made for an aristocrat child that turned her mad. Just like how he lost his membership in the academy and two fingers, the details are left ambiguous as to what really happened. He is a perfectly balanced character in terms of good or evil IMO, still worth saving as an ally kept under close watch. I replayed the mission before I made this video, to see if there was a way to turn off the machine when he pleads for his mind,there was none. There is hope though, on a later level we can hear a recording of him regaining some of his lost memory, to what extent he will remember, we can only guess. Arkane tends to favor good endings(low chaos) as canon, indicated by the state of the world in D2 and DoTO.
@@ThatOtherGamer the recording in mission 8 actually proves jindosh as the fool he became and in the low chaos canon council ending we see both him and brianna in cuffs so idk. I loved jindosh and his voice overs during playing mission 4.
Indeed, his voice is just perfect for his role. I read somewhere the voice actor auditioned to play corvo but was given to a big shot and he got Jindosh. Talk about perfect landings lol.
as i recall, there's a audio log or note in his level where he straight up states that he doesn't really have any animosity toward emily/corvo, it's mostly a desire to show up sokolov/go down in history
which is kinda weak, but sadly realistic
I don't know if there was an audio recording,but I did find a diary page stating the same thing. Which was actually what prompted me to create this video.
My favorite thing about Dishonored is that the non-lethal options for dealing with targets is always a fate worse than death for them. I may not want to kill them, but I want them to suffer.
This really bugged me and was one of the reasons I dropped Dishonored 2 and didnt return until now. I dont understand how they could get this so wrong, when not only did they get it right in the first game, but they kept reminding us of sparring Sokolov as Corvo. It makes zero sense for Corvo to kill Jindosh. It makes very little sense for Emily to kill Jindosh, since she was so close to Anton Sokolov and knew that he started up as an enemy.
I am reminded that some dumb Roman soldier nobody killed Archimedes when he was hard at work. What if he was on the brink of discovering something that could have changed the entire history. "Do not disturb my circles, Emily".
Not sure if you've read the book Dishonored:The Return of Daud but in one chapter, Sokolov had a Lecture in Serkonos surrounding a crystal found in Pandyssia that is hinted to be linked to the void. In attendance was Jindosh, described sketching a design in his notebook after the presentation. Sigh, what a waste to kill him.
The circumstances surrounding Sokolov were not at all comparable to Jindosh. For one, Sokolov derived zero pleasure in seeing his test subjects suffer and even lied to them that they would survive the treatment to ease their minds. Jindosh, however, derives pleasure from making others suffer. Secondly, Sokolov was not an obstacle in Corvo's path. The Loyalists needed him because he knew who was giving the Regent his financial backing so Corvo could take them out. Jindosh, however, was firmly allied with Delilah. Merely threatening to destroy his mind would be foolish. He could easily go into hiding and support his co-conspirators from the shadows, and Corvo/Emily would have wasted their time. Take off your rose-tinted glasses, this was completely in-character and there was no other way.
@@ibn_adham Thankyou He is loyal to Delilah recruiting him wouldn't make sense. Also Killing him isn't Canon so I didn't find anything wrong with this game. It's more like a free choice
Jindosh is not at all like Sokolov, yeah he was a great inventor, but Jindosh is a sadist with a power hunger, he was in fact on the brink of discovering something that would change the entire history, what was it ? how to create an army of clockwork soldiers, its the reason why he had Sokolov, in-game he mentions his desire to achieve that goal and seems to be the only thing on his mind apart from toying with his "visitors", on the anatomy section of his main lab there's a bunch of corpses.
@@ibn_adham agreed. Besides if I'm not mistaken the team actually wanted to have a route where you can spare Jindosh but couldn't because of budget.
i just put him in the device
because i'm a sadist
still breaks my heart :(
I like to put him in the machine and then send him to the void, just so he can't make a comeback! His friends do deal in magic after all.
He is absolutely NOT worth keeping around. When egos are so easily inflated, a person is inclined to get a control seeking god complex. Jindosh would 100 percent turn on Emily and Corvo in the future (especially when he finds out they are responsible for the death of his friends). He may be a genius...problem is, he's an evil genius and that will never change.
Jindosh, The Duke and Ashworth need to go. Hypatia and Stilton are worth saving because they do not want to be evil.
Yup.
exactly
That is a good point.
In high chaos (or low cuz one or two kills won't affect the chaos rating) usually the only ones I kill are delilah and Ramsey cuz his fate ends the same either way and she deserves it, with everyone else I'm taking from them the things they cherish most like Jindosh his mind and Ashworth her magic. I take from them everything and leave them to a life of sorrow and pain knowing they can never get back what they lost. I find it more enjoyable like that.
Jesus christ, that Corvo voice impression was spot on, I thought that was an unused voice line
And yeah, I agree. I don't believe in killing Jindosh, he just seem like a misguided man, and honestly so was Sokolov in Dishonored 1, but looked at how his redemption. But in my playthroughs aside from the first, I've always killed him cause I find the nonlethal one way too cruel.
Thanks,Rae!😄 Yes,I agree with you. There was a hint in a later mission that the shock effects were temporary so I'm hoping for the best for him in the next game. Not sure if you found it already so i won't spoil it.
@@ThatOtherGamer Oh good, I do hope it's temporary. And no I haven't found it yet
You got a point, a man capable of doing all these surely could bring another age of enlightment much brighter than sokolovs, another thing is when the Delilah falls what hes even going to do? Escape to other isles? no and even so the whole isles are a one big empire it won't take that much time to find a genius with a disctinct look, lastly he probably would collabrate if he was given the resouces he wants for his inventions.
Yes,he would not last very long by himself and without a great purpose. I don't really see any reason why he would not cooperate if given the resources and a task that would make his wish (written in his personal diary) come true.
@@ThatOtherGamer i see a comment saying they couldn't add it because of budget restrictions so maybe they would do that if it weren't for the budget being limited, i really hate when a game couldn't reach its full potential its like a unfinished painting
I agree,it's one of those loose ends that's hard to ignore. Maybe in the next game,if there ever is going to be one.
@@ThatOtherGamer i don't think that there will be another game, all the enemies that might "dishonor" our characters are gone like Delilah, even if she learns that shes in a painting what would it change she has eveything she wants there and does not require to fight for it, Likewise, Daud can't be a villian both because the guilt and because the thing that happend in Death of the Outsider and while i open the Outsidertopic he is either dead or no longer a god so they would need a good excecuse to implement magic to 3rd game
I wouldn't close the door to another game so soon. In my opinion,I think there's room for one more which I speculate has something to do with the fall of the empire.
fair play. you made a better argument for sparing him than i expected. the thing is, we dont know WHY he was kicked out of the academy. the dude could be wholly diabolical and untrustworthy. but, as you say, if he could be tamed he certainly would be an asset!
Yes, he is more useful alive. Thanks for watching,Chris.
What an excellent analysis! And I loved your Corvo's voice.
in high chaos the outsider mentions how he made things from dead cats, beyond having no restraints in torturing and doing the same mind wipe to sokolov. he was always an horrible human beeing who didn't care for the life of others and the non-lethal aproach is fitting for someone like him
Another viewer made the same comment about Jindosh but thanks for your input regardless. I'll address it in the part 2 of this video.
The only fault I find with this is that it's Corvo, when I'm pretty sure Emily is the canon protagonist of D2.
You are correct that Emily is the Canon protagonist, both in the comics and Death of the Outsider confirmed this.
anyone else that found it weird that Jindosh's clockwork soldiers were still being produced after you discard of either him or his genius in death of the outsider?
here I was thinking we've effectively destroyed their production/refinement only to discover that the Eyeless and whoever else (idk I got bored of the death of the outsider after two missions) are using upgraded versions of his initial designs...
Been a while since I played DoTO but if I remember correctly,those are leftovers. No new units are being produced after D2.
I didnt watch the full video but one thing to point out is, like Sokolov he was never really against you out of hate or trying to take over the empire he was just paid to do a job
👍
@@ThatOtherGamer Hey so I ended up watching the full video and the only problem with your thought process is that sparing him takes away his genius anyways?
I proposed to just zap him a little to scare him and stop before any major damage is done. Thank you for watching the video,Fruge.😄🙏
In the Grand Palace mission, you can get into the Duke office. There is an audiograph showing that Jindosh killed and tortured innocent people for his experiment, so...
If you stick around Few minutes after frying his brain, Jindosh says "please kill me".
Yes,it's one of his lines I think. A real shame.
I agree about all the reasons you mentioned, but i remember that somewhere near the assessment chamber you find a letter with a dead body been eaten by bloodflies, the letter describes how monstrous and cruel Jindosh is. Emily also confirms her choice of getting rid of him once she reads that letter. i think the message behind this lore was that even brilliant and genius individuals deserve to pay the price of the harm they caused, directly or indirectly.
Maybe Mr. Jindosh really did wanna help all the Isles with the problems.
I don't think he's philanthropic at all,but he can be useful under the watchful eye of the crown.
Also for people saying he deserved to die, don't forget about what Solokov did to that poor woman in the cell in the first game to cure the rat plague. There's many other hints to things he does as well. One such as Deliah making a reference to being his "student" for a better lack of a term. U can make ur own theories on what she means by that.
I agree with you. Dunwall can benefit from Kirin's help in a lot of ways.
Thanks for watching,Colt. 👍
@@ThatOtherGamer Anytime. I would've preferred if my first name didn't have the last 2 letters.
This is like the German scientists in WW2 basically, there are a lot of merits on why he should be spared or not. We really needed a 3rd option, but either way he should pay for the coup.
My thoughts too, considering what jindosh could achieve & what the empire needs no matter who's on the throne, the idea of wasting him was just horrible & practically spelled death for the nation's future. Dunwall's lucky to have good friends. In the real world they would have been legally invaded during Delilah's reign or after she's dethroned.
When I saw his diary page, I knew he could be reasoned with. That's a good point about invasion by the way. If Dunwall was not allied with Tyvia or Gristol, they would have taken advantage of the coup. Provided they could handle dark magic.
In High Chaos,the Outsider tells a different story about Jindosh. That he created a toy to a girl, but after the girl started playing she became mad (or something among these lines).
Even if Jindosh is a genius, he is a sadistic bastard that got what he deserved. Let's not forget that the chair you used to melt his brain was designed by Jindosh himself to strip Sokolov of his free will. "He is too dangerous to be left alive".
Thank you for your comment. I'll take note of it for the part 2 of this video.
Pretty nice corvo impression i have to say man
Thanks for watching,Tyrant.👍
That Corvo impression 😂👌🏻
😂
this.
this is why i rarely watch this kind if video
it makes me wanna restart my game (sometimes almost 99% completed) to just change this small things
still tho, pretty good video
You don't have to replay it. Jindosh's fate is set in stone for now, lethal or not. This video is an opinion on what Arkane should do with his character in the next game. Thanks for checking out the vid!👍
Yeah I’ve always thought he would’ve been more useful than dead or should be dead the way his mind is ravaged and basically destroyed what was. He would’ve been more useful as per se a captive or at the very least given a position suitable to his talents.
Agreed. The non lethal option was just cruel,probably worse than killing him. Hopefully the audio recording at a later mission was a hint that the memory wipe was temporary.
He's not worth sparing because someone needs to be welcomed into the final mystery.
With Jindosh the empire would have made a huge technological leap. His lack of ethics would have been a problem though and even if Corvo tried to keep him in line he likely would have rebelled at some stage. In DOTO we learn Jindosh programmed the clockwork soldiers with a verbal override command so they could never be used against him. I could see him using that or something similar once he was left to his own devices. Personally a third option of letting him live but under supervision would have been nice, but maybe the writers didn't want to leave it too open ended.
Jindosh can be convinced in one way or another imo. People like him tend to live in their own world, when he sees the horrors he has brought to Dunwall he might reconsider his actions. Either that or the machine does, however, I would make him understand that working for Delilah isn't any better since she will have him killed if he disobeys as well, now that she does not even need him anymore, as she has achieved her goals.
I agree that the grand inventor can be reasoned with. Even if he was loyal to Delilah,she's gone by the end of D2. Also,there's that diary page as concrete proof that he can be swayed.
Just gonna note that Emily would 100% be more wanting of the clockwork soldiers based on both of their reactions at the beginning of the game
Emily getting excited whereas forgo being wary of them
You may be right. It's been a while since my last playthrough but my impression on both protagonists' overall perception towards the CSs is a lethal tool that can be useful.
I agree with you. Completely. Jindosh is valuable.
Thanks for watching,Péter.👍
@@ThatOtherGamer Thank to you for putting some extra logic and depth into one of my favourite videogames.
Dude why was this not in the game, that sounds like a hyper awesome secret thing you can do
Hi, Resared. According to Arkane, they scrapped the idea of sparing him due to budget issues. As to how it is done, that's just my suggestion.😊
People forget that this man is a psychopath. All the bad stuff Sokolov did in the first game including imprisoning and testing on people is multiplied by 10 in Jindosh. He doesn’t care about others and you can see evil in most of the stuff he makes.
outsider tells you the whole story in high chaos
I never really paid too much attention with high chaos timeline,because it's entirely separate from what Arkane considered canon which is low chaos(except for one kill I recently discovered in the books). I think I know what you're referring to though,atleast with regards to Jindosh's fate,or what's left of him.😆
This was an absolutely brilliant video my friend
Thank you!🙏🙂
I feel like a better route would have been that instead of lobotomy the Electroshock Machine was to brainwash Sokolov and Jindosh had just finished it as we arrived, which if we were to sneak into the mansion we could make it so Jindosh brings Sokolov to his lab for us and we can knock out Jindosh and save Sokolov and brainwash Jindosh, but Jindosh is knocked out like Sokolov so we similarly have to carry him to the skiff, and in the next mission Jindosh can give us a hint on how to possibly get into the Conservatory and in the ending we get a different version of the Sokolov one where instead of him leaving alone, Jindosh is on the boat with him and they both are traveling to Tyvia, Sokolov to return home, while for Jindosh it’s to study the wildlife or something like that.
likes were at 420 but i had to like it too. Great work!
🙂🙏
Anyone who invents a mind wiping machine deserves to have it used against him.
His death is a great loss, but I think other scientists can continue his work
"To loose such a mind is a waste..." And yet, you suggest we fry his mind into oblivion... Hmmm...
I suggested to zap him just to scare him into submission. If you rewatch the electrocution scene, I stopped the device right after he begged to,when he still have all his mental faculties.🙂
@@ThatOtherGamer Yes, you are right. I apologize, I commented before I watched the video till the end. Though, my personal opinion is still that he was not meant to be spared.
No need to apologize. You are welcome in this channel to voice your constructive opinion,regardless of which side you land on.👍
I played it several times and had same thought you can not just not wipe him, he should have been delivered once all was restored or something.
👍
i notice you lack the outsiders mark here, well done
I would have preferred if there was a HIgh Chaos, Non Lethal option. You show him the Void and he goes crazy and just makes devious machines......well, more devious than normal and he goes down in history as a mad inventor or something.
Interestingly,seeing the void is one wish Jindosh really wanted.
I heard this and haven't been able to test it yet , but I heard that if you stop the machine before it fully fries Kirin's brain, Emily (Or Corvo not sure which) Will say something along the lines of "If you betray me you're dead" Or something like that , and apparently that's a way of leaving Kirin alive and with his mind intact , although I am not sure this is true .
I'll give it a shot in my re-play,but I'm quite certain I spammed the switch to no avail last time I played it.
@@ThatOtherGamer Yeah I don't fully trust it but it's worth a shot either way !
You are right as far as his loyalty has nothing to do with his part in the betrayal. The problem is, he is arrogant and far to fond of himself. He would work for anyone who supports him like Abele did. So he is not loyal to Delilah or Luka but neither he is to Emily or Corvo. His loyality ends with financial ressources for his work and excitement. So he will be a wildcard and straight after a conspiracy like that which questions the legitimacy of the past two empresses (and those thoughts will stay in the public, even if we get the good ending) he is to dangerous even though he is a genius in any posible way. As much as I'd love to see what Dunwall and the empire would become with his talents I'm quite sure he would betray Emily again at least at the second opportunitity or as soon as he gets bored. An other Problem is, like you said, Dunwall has several issues to adress but there are just a few needs for new inventions in the short run. And for process optimising he is overqualified which means he would be expensive and he would get bored quickly which results in betreyal if he has the oportunity. If he had straight up political reasons for his doings, things may be different because those issues can be adressed but his only motivation was money (even if he has enough, you can be as clever as you want, without money you can not build such a mansion) and a opportunity to test his new invention. Another issue with him, every penny the empire would give him he will waste. A man who builds such a house (he doesn't need to, the house and the porperty is big enough to fit in every room for every activity you could dream of) is a lunatic who has no relation to money, a bad reputation in an official posision like "inventor of the empress". And he doesn't care about anyone asside him self. I don't mean loyalty but just basic things like staying alive. When he notices you, he basicly says "get wrecked son of a b*". And if you play a ghost playthrough you might stumble across the corpse of another unluky bastard who got stuck because of a clockwork soldier and just starved. Jindosh doesn't even mind to get rid of the body, call the guard or at least inform the family. And at least his servants would have recogniced it, if you have ever entered a room with a body inside, you would recognice a distinct smell. But he didn't even care enough to throw him over the balcony down the cliff or at least tell anyone else to do so. And following idea is funny. Imagine this spech by Emily: "dear habitants of dunwall, i'd like to introduce you the new high inventor, Kirin Jindosh. Some of you might recognice him because he builded the clockwork soldiers who killed everyone who was loyal to me and his clockwork house were he held Anton Sokolov, friend of my father and my former teacher, as a hostage. Furthermore he tried to kill me. Appouse for your new high inventor."
As a citicen I would wonder about the lightpole my empress teleported into.
He is ignorant, egocentric and an egoist, without any conviction, builds his selfesteem over a variety of mashines which were made to kill anyone, he is a straightup lunatic and doesn't bring any qualites besides his talent which makes him suitable for the role in a future empire like you suggested. This is just my humble oppinion and maybe there is more to it than I see but right now, i make him loose his mind. This makes him way less dangerous for the Empire or every human being he might meet.
Thanks for your comment. A lot of your points are valid concerns over Jindosh's character,however, I believe there is a way around those issues which I'll address in the part 2 of this video.
Inteliggence without heart its just meat for my knife
When he started beging to stop first thing I tried to do is pull lever again but then saw I can't do anything and felt bad because I was going for clean hands achievement i left him like that but now I always kill him because it's an act of mercy in this case espacially because he said that atleast he will die knowing more than anyone
I don't remember him saying anything like that. What he said was all he knows would be lost,which is a real shame.
@@ThatOtherGamer Im sure I heard him saying something like that in game but maybe my mind made it up
There should be a prompt..haha that was very clever...had me fooled there for a bit
I wonder what happened to the trailer design of his machines
Trailer design? Are you referring to the prototypes?
@@ThatOtherGamer yes
The ones that were made before Jindosh's demise are the last ones in existence afaik. His mansion is abandoned since then(according to the 2nd book), and no one dare manufacture them because of the high cost and the lack of know how.
The problem with Jindosh is that he is way too centered in himself and his own ego. He doesn't care about the future or next generations, he wants to be important, he wants glory, and if at any point he thinks that betraying the Empress and Lord Protector will give him bigger chances of accomplishing that he will do it without any hessitation.
It is a huge loss and delay in technological progress, and he could theoretically be spared but Corvo would always have to keep an eye on him, because he is a menace to the crown.
I don't think a death threat is enough to deter that man from trying to achieve greatness. And lobotomizing him is basically the same as death. To be fair, I don't think he would really mind dying, I even think the only reason for which he REALLY wants to stay alive and save his mind is because he ISN'T DONE YET, which is absolutely scary
Great video!
Thanks!Glad you enjoyed it.🙂🙏
I wish you could just leave him alone. Save Sokolov and leave. I tried to do that, knocked him out, left him on the chandelier in his laboratory and went to see Megan.. I then had to take a walk to his mansion again to electrify him.
Yes, it's quite a shame we could not leave him alone.
I've always wondered about this as well. Killing off a great mind because he's politically opposed to you is quite unwise. Most inventors and scientists barely care about their political alignment as long as they have the resources to pursue their passion.
I can't agree more with you, well thought out. His mind could be a huge step forward in the good way.
🙏🙂
funfiction like this is very enjoyable.
😄👍
I am so mad we don't have this option.
Yes,it's a real shame. But atleast they left a door open for the future of his character.
@@ThatOtherGamer there is hope in dishonored 3 , they might bring him back after years of retraining under sokolov , what will explain why his memories/knowledge got restored . maybe even gain some sympathy .
A solution that I think would be nice for the player but not too time consuming for the devs : add the option to get him back to the boat as an hostage. I can understand why Meagan would say no to the Crown Killer, a Witch or the Duke as hostages. But this guy could just be reported missing, and you would treat him like Sokolov in Dishonored 1, caged in the room where Hypatia used to stay. Maybe in high chaos he would just starve there or be killed during the night by a revengeful Meagan.
The best would obviously to have some little conversation between him and Sokolov, something like that (inspired by his books of voyage and dishonored 1) :
"I think I understand how you feel, Jindosh. I guess you've already heard of Piero Joplin? Brillant mind he was, incredible even! My misplaced ego at the time forced me to have him rejected from the Academy, just like you were thrown out by the current administration... Then I met the man, and over only a few exchanges we made *this *, the formula that finally eradicated the Rat Plague. But we also invented devices that could kill millions in the faction of a second! Technology that would make your mechanical soldiers look like toys. With our minds combined we could've brought any Empire to its knees! So we parted ways, agreeing that our mutual input was better used in times of crisis, and I went on to travel the world. Tell me Jindosh, have you ever left Sekonos before? Have you tried to see what was beyond these civilizations you could so easily conquer? The World is much bigger than our little Empire, I can tell you... and much stranger. If I get the strength I hope to see more of it before I fade to the Void, so I can look the Outsider himself right in the eyes and stand proud. Anyways, what you do now is up to you... with this brillant mind of yours you could become the Emperor himself, but then you would cease to be a natural philosopher."
NB: i know the Outsider is not really a religious icon in this world but given that Sokolov spent a lot of time trying to contact him (as the Outsider himself tells us in Dishonored 1) I think he would fantasize about the idea of meeting "the Black Eyed God" at least once after death, just to tell me "lol i don't care".
I haven't pondered on what would happen if Corvo sent Sokolov to have a talk with Jindosh,but maybe that could have worked. Did you come up with those lines?Pretty good. The viewers who left a comment here are split between sparing him or not,which makes Jindosh even more interesting.
That's true,I think he really wanted to see the outsider but never got the chance. I think this is why he's envious of Piero at the beginning.
@@ThatOtherGamer Yeah, that monologue was just me making things up. I'm replaying the games these days and I think Sokolov is my favorite character. This time replaying Dishonored 2 I actually read all the books he wrote about his travels, and it's fascinating to know there is way more to this world than what the games let us see.
Also there is a small "quest "in Dishonored 2 that leads you to a cult a of the Void (not of the Outsider himself), which I think I missed during my first play through. It was funny because the final journal basically says "Going to the Void is hard but we could get more Whale Oil there, and countless new ressources!". Making it obvious that
1) everyone has seen the void in Dreams. I was wondering that because in Dishonored 1, you can see Emily having bad dreams and saying things like "What is this place? Why are you eyes so black?". I thought it was just Corvo's influence on Emily, but Dishonored 2 confirmed that everyone had such dreams.
2) oil is getting low like you said in your video.
3) most people don't really cherish the Void as Heaven, just like a place that physically exists and can be conquered.
4) People prefer to think about crazy esoteric ways to get oil than to explore new possibilities.
@@ThatOtherGamer Also it's funny because even in your video you assume Corvo did the thing. For me Dishonored 2 is the story of an Empress seeing her kingdom up close for the first time. I only played Corvo once and it was for a high chaos No Powers run.
Very inspiring video. Thank you :)
Sure he's brilliant. He's also horrifyingly sadistic to his staff and a self-absorbed narcissist who is perfectly okay with being all of this. To say nothing of course of how he treats Sokolov, going from trying to find a way to make him comply while keeping his creative parts of his brain intact to simply torturing the man for its own sake.
Thanks for your comment. I'll address it in the part 2.👍
Jindosh is a bad person because he doesn't care what he puts his genius to doing. There is no redeeming him because he has no moral compass, and the entire theme of the game is that Emily and Corvo don't have a talent for intervening when they should.
It could be true if jindosh was not faithfull to Delilah ! Good vidéo though !
Thank you! 🙏🙂
Good video and you make really good points. Kirin seemed like a douchebag to me because of how he talks but he was still a genius who could make the empire thrive. I hope if they even make a Dishonored 3, they retcon it so the electro shock chair effect is not permament and he gains his intellect back.
Yes,he really is an undesirable character but his talents are needed by the empire. Not to spoil anything but if you have the time,re-play Dishonored 2's Duke mission and listen to an audio recording found in an office. Thanks for watching,Mehmet.
Hypatia was redeemed when spared. Too bad they didn’t have time to write a similar sequence for Jindosh.
Yes. I was hoping there would be dlc missions but I guess they didn't follow through.
But Hypatia wasn't in control of her evil side. She was always a good person inside.
It is a waste but what is the point of keeping him if he's not using his talents benevolently? By the time we meet him he contributed to the death and suffering of many and protection of a corrupt regime. Same with sokolov, but he got to amend for some of it with the creation of the cure against the plague, but he still paid dearly for it. Would Kirin Jindosh even work with the Empire, and who's to say he wouldn't betray it (again) at the first chance he gets?
Hi,Jules. Those are valid concerns, I'll answer them in the part 2 of this video.
@@ThatOtherGamer can't wait!
pray tell, how do killer machines with knife arms bring about a new age of enlightenment?
hehe, coffin nails go brrrrr.
Hear me out. What if Corvo/emily realizes the error in destroying such a mind, and they do a do-over with the time piece? I thought knocking out Aramis Stilton was way too convenient. And Aramis losing his mind to a very laclustre ritual was kinda lame too. Dishonored 3, Mark the previous outsider, now has to undo certain errors or/strive to be an outsider that takes benevolent accountability and retakes his mantle at the end of the story to usher the world in a new age.
I have a feeling Jindosh would not cooperate with Emily or Corvo. He sounds quite egotistic
He is indeed egotistical,but that doesn't disqualify him from being a possible team player. I'll explain in the part 2 of this video.
I'd like to add some points also why kiling him is unnecessary.
Firstly, like you said, Jindosh has little care for politics which is exactly a very similar attitude like Sokolov's towards the regime. If you played the first game, Sokolov also expressed that he didn't care whether it was Lord Regent or the Kaldwins who rules the Empire as long as his research and projects are not interrupted. Ambiguous loyalty, although dangerous can be nurtured like how in the last 15 years Sokolov grows much fondness towards Corvo and Emily also how he risked his life to uncover the truth of the Crown Killer.
Secondly, between him and Sokolov, Anton Sokolov is way worse than Jindosh, how he then used human experimentation for his rat plague elixir and untold disgusting things that he did in order to reach out the Outsider. I think Corvo understood the complications of killing Sokolov during the rat plague. His believe paid off when Sokolov and Piero found the cure for the rat plague and invented many other things.
Lastly, well I killed him anyway because the clankers are annoying and his nutcracker execution is the funniest 😂
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I totally agree with you, his mind is seriously needed. So what happens if whe just render him unconscious and walk away?
I tried that once, the game will not let you progress with the mission.
@@ThatOtherGamer Didn't even think about that, I was having a few drinks while playing last night then I had that thought "well why don't I just knock him out and walk away?" Made sense to my drunk brain in the moment haha😅. There really should have been a prompt to stop the electroshock chair, im with you 100% on that.
Someone in the comments said that sparing jindosh was on the table of Arkane's plans for the game, but they scrapped it because of budget restrictions. Glad you're having fun with the game, the mechanism of Jindosh's house is still amazing by today's standards of level design.
I just finished my playthrough of Dishonored 2, after not replaying it for about 8 years(can't believe i never got aroumd to it, guess i was busy with games lol), going through a second playthrough rn. Disappointed as well as u for not having the ability to save him. Its like what America did with the Nazi scientists, a lot of good came from those minds regardless of their moral standing. I honestly wish Kirin Jindosh was the main villain of the game and every level would have u going through some crazy genius maze or new creative inventions that forces the player to really reach for creativity with the powers. Such a wasted opportunity as I'm sure most people agree the clockwork mansion is their fav mission in the game.
Hi,Wayne. Thanks for watching! Yes,the clockwork mansion is a masterpiece of level design. I think Jindosh would've been useful alive,especially when there's solid proof that he wasn't a die-hard Delilah loyalist. If D3 comes out,the protagonist is also going to need an inventive genius,and since Piero is gone and Sokolov is retired,he would've been an excellent replacement. It's quite a shame.
So.. You want to spare the man who gave Delilah all these robot soldiers and wsnted to lobotomise Sokolov? Yeah, I don't think so. He deserves to die, but non-lethal is just as good because you give him a taste of his own medicine.
Great video! Now it's worse to play the real game, knowing what the devs could've done.
Thanks!🙏There's hope for Jindosh's character in a non lethal playthrough. In a later mission, there's an audio recording of him regaining some of his memory.
Jindosh is a full on psychopath. The things he did to get kicked out of the academy for good are probably so horrible they wanted to bury that history completely. Who knows, he might have build that seawater drinking robot by mutilating a talented musician into a robotic form of continuous torture.
No matter how valuable a mind is, for things Jindosh has done and would do again in a heartbeat, he is to dangerous to be left to invent. Yes he could find better power sources, he could bring a golden age. But how many lives would have to be lost to his sick unethical ways before that would happen?
In my opinion, no amount of community worth is enough to set a man like jindosh free. He doesnt care for delilah, but that is because he cares only about himself and cares not how much hurt he inflicts. But if we were to have used the machine to change him to reflect and turn, then I could see this as a favorable outcome. But only because we "burn away his evil" so to say
I like it, sadly arkane don't like complexity, is all reduce to... Killing is Bad, no killing is good
I agree. I did take away his mind, but i know it was stupid move. But there Is only worst option...
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Put this video on 1.25 and its much better
really wish there was a way to spare jindosh, he's a genius of his own
I assume you've finished the game already? In a later mission there's an audio recording that hints his electro-amnesia is temporary. We have that atleast😄.
Personally I believe that Jindosh is a narcissist and he can't be trusted. When someone like Jindosh has betrayed once, do not give him a 2nd chance. But I could be wrong. 🥓🥓
good video
Thank you for watching,Dojyaaan.👍
I also wanted to turn off the machine hoping I can bargain :/