Just was made aware thanks to comments that int no longer gives %es, which will help balance late game scaling of es builds to some extent but even with that being the case It still seems wild how much %es increases I am seeing on the tree and I still can't see the balance compared to life builds not having %life scaling.
We'll see on the 6th I guess. It's possible that Life overall will be easier to obtain with higher rolls, or ES will get nerfed within a month of the launch to balance. So, atm, ES SEEMS busted... but it's gonna get adjusted before 1.0... or, Chris & Jonathan liked your content, and wanna give you a chance to break the game, so that they can assess and fix it. Let's be real, it's been pretty hard to "Lance-proof" PoE as it is... congrats.
Perhaps the disparity is that life builds can get much easier access to armour/evasion, which in turn are more powerful now than before. So it's basically huge number/no mitigation (ES) or much smaller number/strong mitigation (Life).
@@jasonrouse8215 that would be considered a "mid league nerf" GGG said they wouldn't do that, they most likely wait until the next big update to EA which would be 4-6 months alteast.
not sure who said it but apparently there is in fact %life on the tree its just not as common as in poe1 and smaller values (one notable apparently has 3% max life and some regen) and lets not forget that strength gives a lot more life now
@@Dirty__Dan This is Early Access. I am pretty sure they will buff and nerf stuff whenever they want to because the whole point is to test the game for balance/bugs until it is in a finished state for full release.
While I agree that ES numbers will be higher than Life for most of the character (as they should, since you lose flask and maybe recovery as well), this may change late game. I'm PoE1 the strongest way of scaling Life/ES is through attribute stacking. And in PoE2, Strength scales twice as hard with Life, meanwhile ES does not scale at all (Int only gives Mana now). So late game ES will be capped way earlier
Keep in mind strength gives 1 life per point now but also you only get 5 str per travel node instead of 10, so its not going to be that much of an increase, depends how much you can get on gear. Yeah int not giving es does limit omega late game scaling power but I still can't see how that balances out the %increases for es on the tree while life doesn't have those.
@@CastToFall As of 2 months ago: Str = 2 life, Int = 2 mana, Dex = 5 accuracy. Could have changed more recently but this is the latest update I could find from a dev.
According to Dreamcore there actually is some %life on the tree as of the 11/8 event he went to. I got the sense that it is rare on the tree (likely rarer than %es).
I am suspecting the top end of ES gear will be a lot weaker than we have it in PoE 1 at the moment. For comparison when PoE 1 launched, it was pretty hard to beat the ES value of Shavrones Wrappings with a rare body.
As im a es and mana lover that sounds awesome... Always happy to see your vids abouts it as your the only only one with Connor who's really reliable to that ❤️
I think the big thing to watch out for as an ES character is still going to be Chaos damage. GGG must be cooking something up for it. I'm betting on a scarcity of Chaos res, and a hard to reach cap. I think Chaos res gear affixes are going to be limited in some way, either by being smaller in value, or simply not found in many slots. Just keep your eyes open. Capping Chaos res might be a huge puzzle to solve for ES based characters. I mean, look at the Dark Monk nodes, he's got a whole notable dedicated to doubling Chaos res, and that might be in major part to offset his Darkness mechanic if it has some Chaos-damage related downside.
I think that the downside is es regen might be difficult to get so you will have to rely on leech and this might be difficult with degens. Also, maybe they put these on different sides of the tree so you'll be able to make it but you'll need to invest a lot for that.
i would think ghost reaver would be maybe on the outside of monk area fairly far from zealots oath. I definitely have seen %regen nodes so I guess im wondering if those will be mostly life side of the tree or close to es nodes in some areas
Rarely ever do people rely on energy shield regen, it was a thing way back when Shavs is the T0 unique when ES recharge take 4 seconds to start and there was no wicked ward, right now you either go with ES recharge + wicked ward, or you leech back ES, or you choose templar for guardian recovery which is technically a regen but not really like regen.
We won't know anything until the game is out. This is the same issue I have with Dreamcore's videos on PoE2 mechanics. All of this stuff is subject to constant, sometimes massive changes (Flasks have changed like 3 times just this year).
ES is very gear dependent and we have no idea how affixes will work. Having a competing prefix like elemental damage to attacks for something like an ES monk would quickly run up against massive tradeoffs without even considering having to invest into ES on tree instead of another defensive mechanic like, say, evasion/suppression.
I could be wrong, but from the wording of the ascendency it seems that effect of the mana leech is applied to es. Which means that if we are not leeching mana, we'll not be getting any ES back. Also when using elderich battery our mana will almost always be full, and there will be no leech
@@ParanoicoBR thats a rly good take actually, we need to see, the combo will prob still be good(MoM+EB etc) but maybe the acolyte ascendancy maybe doesnt synergize aswell
@@ParanoicoBR You wouldn't take EB with that ascendancy, just CI and MoM. Seems like it should still be super strong, assuming you can actually scale mana leech enough to overcome leech resistance in the endgame.
If you play Monk then do you ascent to Invoker for the Meditate which doubles your energy shield, or do you ascent to Acolyte of Chayula for Ravenous Doubts and Consuming Questions?
I suspect the downfall will be in the leech. In PoE1, we're used to good leech allowing us to instantly recover our full bank at all times. To combat that, GGG had to make things capable of 1-shotting or we'd never die. I know in PoE2, they are trying to get away from that and I remember Jonathan saying in a vid that they massively nerfed the ability to fully recover like that (in general, not just for leech), which made 1-shots no longer necessary as a balance. If pinnacle content has insane leech resistance for example, that would mean you need other forms of recovery to supplement leech (flask, regen, etc.) If that happens, this is where the new MoM's 50% less mana recovery will really sting.
yeah thats the big question mark is leech/regen options, I see zealots oath and I see %life regen sources so for me thats enough by itself to solve that issue to an extent, my main concern is with things like stun or ailments if those are based mostly on life threshold numbers
@@steamh4mmer264 Monster leech resistance will weaken that too. The numbers look high cos in PoE 1 there is no leech resistance. In PoE 2 most of that will likely be eaten away by the leech resistance in late game.
The question is how to solve damage? If you have to go balls deep into ES nodes and keystones ( which might be pretty seperated so you have to grab a lot of now for a ES build "worthless" travel nodes ) and the tree there is not much room left to scale damage. In POE1 damage was never a problem because you could get easily value of 400-1000% increased damage from a single unique, jewel, cluster jewel or other sources, ( some of those 1000% damage + scalers might be back, but i dont really think so ) if damage is much harder to come by in POE2 you might be pretty tanky but will take 10min to kill a boss or a pinnacle. Ascedanys also dont give a lot of damage anymore and are pretty conditional, the "best" thing i saw damage wise was the 40% more damage from the warrior but its only on stunned targets so like every couple of minutes you get some seconds of uptime on it.
yes what you said might be true, but you can just use multiple active skills right? I can't tell if that's a definitive solution but it should be, in POE2 there is no socket pressure after all, the whole "one 6 link main skill" idea is because POE has a socket system.
I guess their idea for ES is to be much more of an ALTERNATIVE to other defensive layers like Armor, Evasion, Block and the likes instead of an alternative to Life, hence the much larger number than Life as you'll be tanking through sheer amount instead of having to add more layers on top of that (edit) Not to mention we could probably be getting HUGE Life numbers on gear so it doesnt fall that far behind It still wont stop me from going CI MoM Darkness Chonk bc having 1 Life and no ES on the left of the screen is gonna feel funny xd
The one problem with going Darkness is that you kinda want to go MoM without CI, so that it's insulated from damage until you hit 0 mana. If you take CI, your ES protects mana first but Darkness protects ES before that, so it'll get reserved when hit. Darkness wants either MoM no CI or full evasion to function kinda like Ward, if one of the unrevealed ascendancy points lowers the amount of time it's reserved by when it soaks damage.
@@beziocraft MoM protects Life, not HP in general. You would still take ES damage before mana damage either way, which then gets shifted to Darkness. The only way to protect Darkness would be to have 0 max ES.
@MrRafagigapr of course Curious if energy shield mods will be on gear It would be the opposite of what they are doing with life More life on gear, but nearly no %life on passive tree You get armor with inherent energy shield, which will get boosted by passive tree nodes
I did not realize that was the case, definitely helps balance maybe the late game disproportionate power but still can't see life keeping up with that limitation.
@CaptainLance9 with how strength gives more life than in poe 1 Maybe it would be balanced out? Not like mana/energy shield scaling will outshine life scaling An even distribution imo
I just thought it was cool during the trailer and wanted to include it, doryani kindof has a history of some neat ES related mechanics like his glorious vanity keystone in poe 1 corrupted soul.
Dammit, CaptainLance! Once again, you whistleblow something I didn't even mention to my friends, because I wanted all the glory for myself. You truly are an IRL templar.
Just was made aware thanks to comments that int no longer gives %es, which will help balance late game scaling of es builds to some extent but even with that being the case It still seems wild how much %es increases I am seeing on the tree and I still can't see the balance compared to life builds not having %life scaling.
We'll see on the 6th I guess. It's possible that Life overall will be easier to obtain with higher rolls, or ES will get nerfed within a month of the launch to balance.
So, atm, ES SEEMS busted... but it's gonna get adjusted before 1.0... or, Chris & Jonathan liked your content, and wanna give you a chance to break the game, so that they can assess and fix it.
Let's be real, it's been pretty hard to "Lance-proof" PoE as it is... congrats.
Perhaps the disparity is that life builds can get much easier access to armour/evasion, which in turn are more powerful now than before. So it's basically huge number/no mitigation (ES) or much smaller number/strong mitigation (Life).
@@jasonrouse8215 that would be considered a "mid league nerf" GGG said they wouldn't do that, they most likely wait until the next big update to EA which would be 4-6 months alteast.
not sure who said it but apparently there is in fact %life on the tree its just not as common as in poe1 and smaller values (one notable apparently has 3% max life and some regen) and lets not forget that strength gives a lot more life now
@@Dirty__Dan This is Early Access. I am pretty sure they will buff and nerf stuff whenever they want to because the whole point is to test the game for balance/bugs until it is in a finished state for full release.
While I agree that ES numbers will be higher than Life for most of the character (as they should, since you lose flask and maybe recovery as well), this may change late game.
I'm PoE1 the strongest way of scaling Life/ES is through attribute stacking. And in PoE2, Strength scales twice as hard with Life, meanwhile ES does not scale at all (Int only gives Mana now). So late game ES will be capped way earlier
Keep in mind strength gives 1 life per point now but also you only get 5 str per travel node instead of 10, so its not going to be that much of an increase, depends how much you can get on gear. Yeah int not giving es does limit omega late game scaling power but I still can't see how that balances out the %increases for es on the tree while life doesn't have those.
@@CaptainLance9 small correction: the poe2 wiki says strength gives 2 life per point, unless it's somehow out of date
Stacking or playing trickster.
@@CastToFall As of 2 months ago: Str = 2 life, Int = 2 mana, Dex = 5 accuracy. Could have changed more recently but this is the latest update I could find from a dev.
According to Dreamcore there actually is some %life on the tree as of the 11/8 event he went to. I got the sense that it is rare on the tree (likely rarer than %es).
I am suspecting the top end of ES gear will be a lot weaker than we have it in PoE 1 at the moment. For comparison when PoE 1 launched, it was pretty hard to beat the ES value of Shavrones Wrappings with a rare body.
Or/and you can scale mana itself and take mana insta leech ascendancy nide with new MOM. Kinda ES/mana hybrid.
and eternal youth makes life potions affect ES and the downside of losing ES recharge is allready on ascendancy so there is no downside
"if a hit is fully absorbed by a shield or energy source, it will not apply" So you're safe from bleed as long as you have ES to absorb the hit.
As im a es and mana lover that sounds awesome... Always happy to see your vids abouts it as your the only only one with Connor who's really reliable to that ❤️
Are you sure that int gives % es in PoE2?
it doesn't
I have been told it doesn't that would explain %es nodes being so hefty
I think the big thing to watch out for as an ES character is still going to be Chaos damage. GGG must be cooking something up for it. I'm betting on a scarcity of Chaos res, and a hard to reach cap. I think Chaos res gear affixes are going to be limited in some way, either by being smaller in value, or simply not found in many slots.
Just keep your eyes open. Capping Chaos res might be a huge puzzle to solve for ES based characters. I mean, look at the Dark Monk nodes, he's got a whole notable dedicated to doubling Chaos res, and that might be in major part to offset his Darkness mechanic if it has some Chaos-damage related downside.
I think that the downside is es regen might be difficult to get so you will have to rely on leech and this might be difficult with degens. Also, maybe they put these on different sides of the tree so you'll be able to make it but you'll need to invest a lot for that.
i would think ghost reaver would be maybe on the outside of monk area fairly far from zealots oath. I definitely have seen %regen nodes so I guess im wondering if those will be mostly life side of the tree or close to es nodes in some areas
You dont need es regen on es builds. You need faster es recharge rate and wicked ward. The regen is very extra in poe1 rn.
Rarely ever do people rely on energy shield regen, it was a thing way back when Shavs is the T0 unique when ES recharge take 4 seconds to start and there was no wicked ward, right now you either go with ES recharge + wicked ward, or you leech back ES, or you choose templar for guardian recovery which is technically a regen but not really like regen.
@@therocklau Yeah exactly, you get it!
I see the ascendancy node of increased crit dmg per x life is going to be cool aswell, we'll see.
We won't know anything until the game is out. This is the same issue I have with Dreamcore's videos on PoE2 mechanics. All of this stuff is subject to constant, sometimes massive changes (Flasks have changed like 3 times just this year).
So are we gonna talk about the monk being able to life leech mana and es? Looking at this plus monk seems extremly busted
If CI makes you bleed immune, does that also apply to MoM? since with that youre also not taking life damage
ES is very gear dependent and we have no idea how affixes will work. Having a competing prefix like elemental damage to attacks for something like an ES monk would quickly run up against massive tradeoffs without even considering having to invest into ES on tree instead of another defensive mechanic like, say, evasion/suppression.
Monk as the mana leech is instant so it basically imply you can instant leech es
I could be wrong, but from the wording of the ascendency it seems that effect of the mana leech is applied to es. Which means that if we are not leeching mana, we'll not be getting any ES back. Also when using elderich battery our mana will almost always be full, and there will be no leech
@@ParanoicoBR thats a rly good take actually, we need to see, the combo will prob still be good(MoM+EB etc) but maybe the acolyte ascendancy maybe doesnt synergize aswell
@@ParanoicoBR True ngl
@@ParanoicoBR You wouldn't take EB with that ascendancy, just CI and MoM. Seems like it should still be super strong, assuming you can actually scale mana leech enough to overcome leech resistance in the endgame.
If you play Monk then do you ascent to Invoker for the Meditate which doubles your energy shield, or do you ascent to Acolyte of Chayula for Ravenous Doubts and Consuming Questions?
Acolyte of Chayula
I suspect the downfall will be in the leech. In PoE1, we're used to good leech allowing us to instantly recover our full bank at all times. To combat that, GGG had to make things capable of 1-shotting or we'd never die. I know in PoE2, they are trying to get away from that and I remember Jonathan saying in a vid that they massively nerfed the ability to fully recover like that (in general, not just for leech), which made 1-shots no longer necessary as a balance. If pinnacle content has insane leech resistance for example, that would mean you need other forms of recovery to supplement leech (flask, regen, etc.) If that happens, this is where the new MoM's 50% less mana recovery will really sting.
yeah thats the big question mark is leech/regen options, I see zealots oath and I see %life regen sources so for me thats enough by itself to solve that issue to an extent, my main concern is with things like stun or ailments if those are based mostly on life threshold numbers
The monk chayula ascendency has mana leech applies to es, maybe this will be fine.
@@steamh4mmer264 Monster leech resistance will weaken that too. The numbers look high cos in PoE 1 there is no leech resistance. In PoE 2 most of that will likely be eaten away by the leech resistance in late game.
The question is how to solve damage?
If you have to go balls deep into ES nodes and keystones ( which might be pretty seperated so you have to grab a lot of now for a ES build "worthless" travel nodes ) and the tree there is not much room left to scale damage. In POE1 damage was never a problem because you could get easily value of 400-1000% increased damage from a single unique, jewel, cluster jewel or other sources, ( some of those 1000% damage + scalers might be back, but i dont really think so ) if damage is much harder to come by in POE2 you might be pretty tanky but will take 10min to kill a boss or a pinnacle. Ascedanys also dont give a lot of damage anymore and are pretty conditional, the "best" thing i saw damage wise was the 40% more damage from the warrior but its only on stunned targets so like every couple of minutes you get some seconds of uptime on it.
yes what you said might be true, but you can just use multiple active skills right? I can't tell if that's a definitive solution but it should be, in POE2 there is no socket pressure after all, the whole "one 6 link main skill" idea is because POE has a socket system.
What if the keystones are so far apart on the tree that you can't have them all?
ES will also be eating damage mods since they changed a bunch of suffixes into prefixes
the fact that notables on the tree give more %es each still doesn't mean you can scale more from the tree. ES nodes might just be much rarer
Conner got Mana Owned...
CaptainLance got ES Supremacy...
Anyone who's stacking Life or another thing in particular?
I would still dodge the 10% less Mana node if you're going MoM. 40% inc ES doesn't seem worth it if there's a lot of %ES in other places on the tree.
I guess their idea for ES is to be much more of an ALTERNATIVE to other defensive layers like Armor, Evasion, Block and the likes instead of an alternative to Life, hence the much larger number than Life as you'll be tanking through sheer amount instead of having to add more layers on top of that
(edit) Not to mention we could probably be getting HUGE Life numbers on gear so it doesnt fall that far behind
It still wont stop me from going CI MoM Darkness Chonk bc having 1 Life and no ES on the left of the screen is gonna feel funny xd
The one problem with going Darkness is that you kinda want to go MoM without CI, so that it's insulated from damage until you hit 0 mana. If you take CI, your ES protects mana first but Darkness protects ES before that, so it'll get reserved when hit.
Darkness wants either MoM no CI or full evasion to function kinda like Ward, if one of the unrevealed ascendancy points lowers the amount of time it's reserved by when it soaks damage.
if u go EB with MoM doesnt it ruin the darkness? since u take mana dmg from MoM but ur ES is proctecting it so you lose ES so it reserves ur darkness
i literally said in the comment that it'd be CI without ES
I know it sounds too cursed to believe as a poe1 player, but thats the point xd
@@beziocraft MoM protects Life, not HP in general. You would still take ES damage before mana damage either way, which then gets shifted to Darkness. The only way to protect Darkness would be to have 0 max ES.
@@AcesSuited Dont wanna come off as rude, but damn, can you read? bc this is literally what i said
not sure if you're tryna troll rn or what, ngl
This has the potential to be really broken with Ravenous Doubts assuming mana leech is relatively easy to get.
Can a men be more hyped? im absolutly with you mr Lance, launch gonna be fun
Yeah this looks good and fun
Just like early POE1 right? i dont remember any meta builds that were hp back prior to like....legacy league?
wait there's a freaking poe2db?
oh man those es % nodes are juicy.
They said bleed can only be inflicted by physical damage against life so a CI character would be immune to bleed.
Monkey paw curles: bleed ignores energy shield
This might very bait. Life will have roughly 25 more skill points to invest into dmg or other survival vs ES.
Im defo playing a chayula ci monk
Add instant mana and es leech with dark monk ascendancy and ure invulnerable
You dont even need EB right? You can just go mom CI right?
Intelligence wont scale your energy shield in poe 2
It only gives mana
% mana nodes with mind over matter will make it better than life too
@MrRafagigapr of course
Curious if energy shield mods will be on gear
It would be the opposite of what they are doing with life
More life on gear, but nearly no %life on passive tree
You get armor with inherent energy shield, which will get boosted by passive tree nodes
Still works with mind over matter to get more "life"
I did not realize that was the case, definitely helps balance maybe the late game disproportionate power but still can't see life keeping up with that limitation.
@CaptainLance9 with how strength gives more life than in poe 1
Maybe it would be balanced out?
Not like mana/energy shield scaling will outshine life scaling
An even distribution imo
What's with the dark mysterious intro lmao
I just thought it was cool during the trailer and wanted to include it, doryani kindof has a history of some neat ES related mechanics like his glorious vanity keystone in poe 1 corrupted soul.
Mana and ES stackers keep winning. Dex builds found in a ditch, like usual.
Dammit, CaptainLance! Once again, you whistleblow something I didn't even mention to my friends, because I wanted all the glory for myself. You truly are an IRL templar.
Not bait gladge
there is life percent on the tree on warrior side
proof?
@@shadowbreaker6027 there is, saw it when I played the beta at gamescom
Every interview ive seen they said "no % life on tree" and I haven't seen any clips of %life, so would love to see a link to this?
@@CaptainLance9 nvm, I just saw you commend on that video
@@CaptainLance9it's in a podcast by tri, dreamcore said it.. trying to find the timestamp..xD
You are saying it as if not ES is not the most broken thing in poe1.
alkMelee
relax
Youre basing this off of literally no clue about new mechanics the game has...Stop basing everything off of POE 1...
PoE 2 really bringing out the annoying clickbait huh
All my homies go chayula monk ES CI MoM free leech, instant mana MoM leech, 100% MoM hg wp, see you in 5 months with the nerfs
Did we all have the exact same thought lol, this is exactly the first thing that poped into my head the moment I read what Chayula monk does