Yeah I've been in the bike shop and service industry a long time and ive never seen someone do this before. The reason is it wouldn't really net you anything because any good mechanic can gat any nice brake on any nice frame yo feel fantastic and it would be a way better use of time to bleed some air from the system or get nicer/new rotors/pads. Calipers arrive to shops installed most of the time and we can't afford to do this stuff to every frame. The only place you'd see this is at a boutique road bike shop so please don't go into a shop expecting things like this to be routine
It’s so sad that your shop just sells more stuff that won’t long term fix the problem. Mechanics need to be better in this industry and not become salesmen. 😢. New pads and rotors and a calliper service will help only until they wear down inconsistently and begin to rub again. Bikes don come built from factory poorly. It’s our job to fix them.
@@Mapdec This is all a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The very principle of a hydrologic brake system promotes even pad wear even if the caliper isn't perfectly centered. That's part of the reason we bed in brake pads. You're saying that wearing down pads will cause them to rub which means you really suck at brake service or don't understand the very basics of disc brakes. Accusing the industry of being "salespeople" is a clear sign you haven't worked at a local shop. How am I supposed to tell a customer who's complaining about a brake rub that I need to strip their whole rear triangle and brake assembly and use these specialty tools that take valuable time to use only to realize that oh wait, that accomplished nothing and manually aligning the caliper according to the brake manufacturer is perfectly fine and take a couple minutes.
@@carterhughes9655 I own a local shop. This isn’t a media channel. Please read the frame fit specifications from the component brands. Recognise that the major tool brands make this tool for this job. And please offer your customers the service they deserve and fix their bikes properly. If you have never done this job and only revert to selling your poor customers new pads you really can’t comment on its effectiveness or necessity. Please invest in your training and tools. We need to be better.
I’m so upset this is how the cycling industry thinks. Short term fixes that cost riders more and more money. Mechanics are parts salesmen and fitters. 😢
@@Mapdec I get your frustration. My point of view (from Serbia, a poor country): It would take a lot for the price of that tool to pay for itself. It would be very difficult to charge for the extra time needed to do such a proper job. It is a proper job - IMO, such stuff should be checked with every frame, when you first get in its possesion (either new or used - doesn't matter). Similar goes for checking the headset and BB alignment (at least on metal frames where it can be easily fixed). Having said that, I am far from delighted with how more and more complicated stuff is getting - and the price of tools. Keep up the good work. Great video as far as I'm concerned. Stay cool. :) Relja
Well if you look at cars its the same story for high end stuff like mclaren with the panel gaps^^ The companies know stupidly rich people will buy the stuff with a hefty idiot tax anyway, so why bother? At the end of the day you pay for the bling not the function, because any older bike with a little amount of customization will do the job just fine
@@bergbilch there's a big difference in cosmetical issue and a pure, core function fault. Fucked up brake mounts, void in carbon, 2 fucked hole what would be the bb housing. Those are big problems. Yes, mostly well-off, "sporty" people buy this kind of stuff who would be as fast as on this bike as on a 20 yearold aluminium bike. But, this doesn't mean to make high-end things shit.
@@Manetty6 well i totally agree that its fucked up, the whole bike industry is a total mess they wanna sell new bikes and in order to do that you cant build good bikes, same with any other industry and people have been already conditioned to buy everything new as soon as a tiny issue arrives same as bike fitting is totally neglected for the normal consumer, while its the most important where i come from you cant even test out a saddle or handles in the bike shop, it wouldnt be so hard to have a stationary bike there for people to test stuff out but everyone just wants to sell new bikes instead of making someone comfortable on a bike
Hahaha... This has been going on for time immemorial. You would think in this modern age with highly precise processes and tooling, it would be an none issue. It just comes down to laziness and profits.
Great explanation, but it's very sad that QC on a frame as expensive as that S-Works is so bad that it's not being delivered faced correctly from the factory. I expect some of the Decathlon frames to need facing, not S-Works frames that cost a small fortune.
Unacceptable. I don't see why I should bother with most high end brands carbon, alu, ti. As I need to know if it's made properly, and when I know it might not be I can't recommend not buy it. I got Nicolai/Geometron. I think I might stick with grams made by Nicolai. But mistakes can happen with any brand, but when there's so much issues with the big brands so much negative press. There clearly is a major problem. What ever I try later I like to use what I know and trust, known is great and perform to my expectations. Then I can experiment with parts later, not selling parts before I have a better alternative. I've not had to do brake post facing, it's perfect, or anything else now warranty stuff. That's how it should be. But the list of brands I'm willing to recommend or buy or even consider buying is tiny. So it would be interesting so know more brands that are decent.
Yes, how the fuck is this a problem. If that tolerance is on a brand spanking new frame it shouldn’t be allowed from the factory. It’s outrageous what we get for our money
@@vojvoda9060 Crazy because caliper refacing is only needed if the stock facing was faulty. That's an absurdly expensive frame to come with faulty caliper facing, but par for the course with specialized.
@@vojvoda9060 I can assure you that older S-Works frames are absolutely legendary and I do not have any brake rub or need for a calipher refacing, my S-Works Enduro dated 2007 is STILL ripping down, bombing hills almost 20 years later. Updated with a modern drivetrain, Deore XT brakes and big fat Hope 26 ers, I wouldn't trade it for any other frame in the world. I refuse to, untill it reaches end of life. 25 years of experience and my bike almost matches that in life time, surviving a front fork and two rear shocks, a rim set and about 15 cassette's and two cranksets including BB's.
If the day ever comes that I can afford a superbike, I’m definitely gonna be driving the few hundred miles to your workshop to keep the thing maintained! 🚴 Love these technical videos.
I got so sick of alignment problems, that I bought that tool myself. I am a home mechanic, but do service and detailing on a lot of bikes. The tool is a real pain in the ars, but when done correctly the difference can be night and day. Not only my own bikes are now disc brake marvels. I’ve helped quite a few friends as well. It is alarming indeed that manufacturers don’t take the time to do this properly themselves. In a sidenote: a lot of the Chinese bikes I’ve seen are much better than some big brands.
Thanks MCW for a clear explanation of the proper way to solve this real problem, as I encountered recently. All was good until torquing down the caliper, when you could see it twist, because the mounts were not flat and level. LBS had the correct tool to fix it. Maybe some of the comments you received are from people who never saw these issues, or misunderstood what they were seeing. Cycle industry lacks trained technicians which didn't matter so much years ago, but modern tech has such fine tolerances that you can't get away with sloppy treatment of expensive engineering.
Love what you are doing raising the standards for the industry and the bike shops. Too many bodges out there and frustrated customers with poorly performing bikes. Then wasting resources on money on replacement parts that wear out too fast. Awesome stuff
I think every 10 or so videos I have to express how much I love this channel. This little wave of cycling "enlightenment period" UA-cam content creators (Macdec, Peak Torque, Hambini, Dylan Johnson, Friction Facts, Road Cycling Academy) is damn refreshing - rationale, logic, reason... fan-bloody-tastic. (Especially with the hoarde of dorky industry shill channels out there).
If we were the dealer we would. However. The dealership don’t offer this. They just send the frame back. These frames are too rare and the riders just want to ride.
@@Mapdec A rider who just want to ride, will dont care with this problem, not even the pros, they only notice that something is wrong with the bike, and the team mechanics will suck with this, or bike shops. But via this YT chanel I lerned a lot about maintaining , setting up etc. , so is wery helpful, but definetly not for the weekend riders. Thank you !
@@endremajos2566 'just want to ride' means the owner wants to get back out on the bike as soon as possible. It doesn't mean they don't care about the problem. The time difference between a bike shop fixing the problem vs sending the frame off as a warrenty claim is massive.
@@Mapdec I did manage to get my Giant Defy warrantied - not for this issue but the area of the frame for the bottom bracket had not been moulded properly and it was loose. My local mechanic Cyclelink in Thames Ditton discovered the issue immediately when I put the bike in for service (my bad, I guess, for not realising…..) and advised me to warranty it with Giant via the bike shop where I bought it. They were very good and refused to charge me, even though I offered. Also offered to talk with Giant / the bike shop if needed. So they now get all my repair / service business. To be fair to Giant, they accepted the warranty claim with zero challenge after the shop inspected it. Replaced the frame. But I can understand your customers preferring a repair where possible. The process to get the new frame and then have the bike reassembled by the bike shop took well over a month. In the meantime, I was lucky enough to have an alternative road bike I could use. Giant did not offer any form of hire bike! According to the mechanic though, Giant bikes are typically well made so this is not a gripe on Giant as a manufacturer. They behaved well. I got a new frame out of it. Felt like having a new bike again….. Excellent video, as always.
It's one thing for a shop to have the tool, it's another for them to know how to use it and yet another to find one that will discuss the procedure with you in order for you to be confident enough to let them undertake the job.
I had this done and it absolutely makes a difference. Not only in height, but in the correct alignment to the axle path. I would also say your manufacture would likely never even know if you had a warranty claim.
You’re 100% right , the park DT5.2 is a nightmare of a tool to use. Also I find that most rear flat mounts are not square and require facing from the factory . I really hope the industry gets there act together and resolve this issue
Great video I had an issue recently with the front brake on my mtb. Ended up rebuilding the caliper with new pistons, hope e4 kept sticking on, miles better now with the stainless hybrid pistons. You like to go above and beyond with customer bikes like it’s your own, sadly a lot of shops like easy fixes
The really sad thing is that caliper mounting pads are not absolutely perfect FROM THE FACTORY! When a company is making hundreds or thousands of frames that are all the same, making a tool to sand those mounting points *perfectly* flat and aligned to the axle is a piece of cake, and would require maybe 30 seconds or a minute to touch-up the front and rear mounting points on a finished frame.
Cyclefix in Poole did a fantastic job on facing my front forks on my Look 785. After a year of my local bike shop making things worse (a lot worse) and others telling me to replace every other part, these guys took an hour to make my front brake perfect
Another great video Paul! Agreed that this tool is a bear; bought one myself for use in the shop where I work. Seem to invest in another "required" part every six months for the next wave of technology. Getting brakes right makes a huge difference for many riders. Have even done this service many times on kid's bikes with hydraulic brakes.
@@steve050867 All specialized carbon frames are the same with the exception of the comp model. All from the same assembly line and QC, just different paint.
I'm so glad it's not just me that loathes that tool, I can't believe the carbon cutter doesn't even attach to the tool, seems like an afterthought. I have a rant every time I get it out of the box 🤣
Fair play to you guys... I guarantee most bike shops do not go this far.... Nice to see a proper job in every aspect of your work.... Be good to see some more videos of a full bike service. Keep up the good work
As a side note to contribute… there is a secondary clamp you can use on the main vertical sliding cylinder as a sort of depth set gauge/stopper. So you would (assumingely) start with the affected face, cut it flush, tighten the depth clamp on the before mentioned vertical post that then establishes the cut depth for the entire apparatus moving onto the next face to cut. That way you won’t cut beyond the depth of the first face you did. In the event you can’t verify your work with a feeler gauge that one clamp can help with a consistent result and not over cutting.
I’m surprised not many shops in London don’t have this tool. I work in a small workshop in south east London and have had this tool for years. It’s not only high end frames that need this. The amount of low/mid range bikes that we have to use this on is probably higher.
@@Mapdec it’s Finches Emporium, we’re based in south east London. We’re mostly known for ski and snowboards. But ive been building up the bike side of the business for the last 10 years now.
great video about this topic. i would love to see you do another video covering one piston advancing before the other and sticky pistons in general. including when you replace the rotor and pad how to get them to contact evenly for the best braking. cheers
Good video and very interesting as ever. I have come across this problem and found it is ss much to do with the machining finish on the brake mount and caliper as it is to do with the frame. I have had to go to a local engineer to get those parts correctly machied square and flat.
Looks very methodical and accurate! I've got my Titanium bike with you for this on the front as we speak. Certainly one to leave to the workshop and not attempt at home!
I really enjoyed that informative tooling video. I could forgive having to correct the mounts on a cheap bike. But for a very expensive s-works it's not good enough QC.
I am so fucking glad this came up just now. My brakes have been howling like a seal because of sticky pistons. This information is great for me just to build up my knowledge.
I owned a specialized diverge that needed to be refaced. Apparently specialized is pretty notorious for some poor off the shelf facing. That along with some other problems have me only buying from smaller brands which seem to be a much better QC job.
on a custom frame with carbon fork I had a rubbing issue on the fork. Asked the builder and then another reputable bike shop to do this for me. Both did but the result did not change that much. in the end the issue is that the aluminium insert of the screws in the fork are not very well done and at the last 1/4 turn to torque up the brake caliper, the caliper sits not perfectly straight. The only solution was to fit a 0.5mm shim under the caliper on both mounting points. In case you are wondering, that is an Enve fork. Vowed that I will never ever get anything from Enve again.
Home mechanics should be inspecting the brake pads regularly and can shave or sand the brake pad flat if it develops a ridge or wears unevenly. If the pads do wear unevenly, it is a sign there's some problem with the brakes. It is often something simple like a sticky piston.
I was building a bike, the IS mount tab or fork itself was a bit out of alignment, so used the park tool brake facing tool the face the IS mount brake adapter 😂
Sand the mounts flat any old how and then put those adjusting washers that they use on rim brake pads under the brake mount. Design the frame and brakes so the mount won't sit too high with the washers underneath.
finding a bike shop with facing/alignment tools is such a headache, but truly it is the manufacturer's fault to not do this before the frame leaves the door. as customers we shouldn't accept it.
To give a diff perspective to some commentators: I work in a Bikeshop in Germany and we specialize on mid to high end road and gravel bikes. My more experienced Colleagues of cause do this procedure if the Problem exists, effects the functioning in a significant way and the Frame is sufficiently Valuable. I myself see an issue with aligning Calipers on Carbon Forks a lot, sometimes its just an issue of carefully filing down errors in the paint or resin overlaps from manufacturing. Sometimes there are also issues where the glued in threads are just off or they start flexing in an detrimental way long before the specified tork values. In general my experience is that this is mostly an issue with Carbon Frames and Forks, one of the many reasons I dont enjoy working on the material, even though I can handle it. In the end that unease you feel is the extra ammount of focus you need to handle Carbon correctly. We also use the Park-Tool one, its very appreciated.
Great video, absolutely agree, if you're selling bikes that command the prices they do, then you better be able to check and deal with such an issue. If I'm paying the sort of stupid money that manufacturers are getting for those types of frames, I'm most definitely expecting it to come absolutely perfect from the factory/dealer. I'd most definitely not be paying the full price until I've taken the bike for a ride at least around the parking lot to make sure that nothing's not perfect with it
Perfect example of Park Tool not always being the best option. Many of their tools were or are flawed, or not suitable for some, so good alternatives exist. Their torque wrenches are also awful, horrible play in the ratchet in head, and the head it self, and bit adapter doesn't sit securely. It wiggles and can fall off, even using an tighter adapter I have. Their hex and Torx let's are rebranded Bondhus. They took many years before adding flat sockets. So do the research get tools that suit you, get the best tools for you and the job it's gonna be used for. Make sure it's a quality tool. It might be cheaper or pricier and not from Parktool.
It's a shame and yet a good thing you display this on a S-Works frame. There is almost no other brand than this one that is WAY overpriced for the quality you get. And I'm not even going to start about the quality of customer service in terms of warranty with them. Although I absolutely love my Stumpjumper (I got 3 of them...), I highly discourage people from buying any S-Works related stuff. They just don't deserve it. Besides that, again a quality video! I don't trust any mechanic on my bike (learned to do anything myself, just lacking the tools most of the time) but I would trust you with it.
I recently had an alignment issue with my rear brake, no matter what I did I could not get the pads to stop rubbing, I could get the pads gapped properly but as soon as I snugged up the bolts the caliper moved sideways causing the pads to rub. I had more or less resigned myself to getting the mounting pads faced somewhere, but noticed that the washer under the bolt heads seemed to be 'dished' so tried a couple of plain hex head bolts and washers and problem solved, no more disc rub! Seems the dishing of the washers was causing the problem!
The tool he will introduce in the next video will be the alignment tool for the thru axle he is currently showing while installing the brake alignment tool. Stay tuned!
What's the benefit of not using the little ring to on the perpendicular post that sets the height. It looks like you cut off a while then check with the gauges.
In my opinion, the Park tool is too complex. I made my own that slides back/forth on the through-axle, and has a perfectly flat aluminum block bolted to it at the correct angle and offset. I bonded a piece of 220 grit paper to the flat block. Install on bike, slide the block back and forth on the axle until both mounting pads are clean and flat, and that's it. Once the simple tool is made, the entire process takes maybe a minute. Made one for the front as well, and functions exactly the same way. If Mapdec has the space, obtaining a lathe and mill for your shop would be well worth the money and space. Many tools can be made fairly simply that work better than what is available to buy (not bashing Park in any way -- they make nice, useful tools).
In theory you do only need 1 surface indeed. Just place it parallel to the chainstay on the highest of the 2 holes and sand until you are at the same level on both. I think it's a more reliable way to make sure you have a flat surface covering the 2 mounting holes, compared to doing one hole and then the other.
Impressive video. Follwoing you from france. A few month ago you managed to explain me why i was having a fast use on my BB pressfit hub on a norco MTB and now I'm understanding my rear brake alignement issues on my road cube . The reference line for the the 16mm is horizintal or from wheel center to BB center ? I'm very disapointed with the bike industry quality
Yep I have seen specialized brake misalignment issue in another UA-cam channel too. This Shows $14k is the price you pay for marketing not the quality. Imagine this was a Chinese frame.
Why not use the stop collar as is highlighted in the instructions from Park. I'm yet to come across a bike where it wouldnt fit if you just set up the tool correctly.
Interesting comments on the Park Tool DT-5.3. if you had your time again, which tool would you choose? I had the Hope tool for IS mounts which was really useful. Last time i took a post mount frame to a bike shop, they told me they couldnt fit the tool into my frame (medium frame, PM160 on the chainstay) but still charged me half an hour wirkshop time. Given i have 4 post mount bikes and ine flat mount, its probably cheaper to buy the tool than try to find a local shop to trust.
should we consider this extra cost when buying a new frame as a standard? Also do the new bikes come (not framsets) have this job done all ready? Is it more common on road then mountain biking?
I don’t think it’s a case of volume. It’s just case of being tooled up to do a professional job. Some tools might take a decade to pay off, but you just can’t think of it like that.
@@Mapdec That's an extremely noble attitude to work in the interests of your customers. But believe me, that is not at all as common as one might expect. Aside from your technical capability, this makes you and your shop stand out!
@@Mapdec The shop I used to work in, whose boss is aware that the DT-5.2 won't be used as often as he liked, but he knows he has the service to offer to those who really need it. Customers just need to know about it.
I'm confused why they don't make brake mounts that can be adjusted in more than one plane. I've worked on mtb mounts with rounded washers, like on v-brakes and IMO it solves the whole ordeal.
After you grinded first drop out you did not tightened out the stopper bolt under the grinder , if you Did, you would not need to re-measure how much you grinded off in the first place! Watch Parktool Video for the complete explanation!
Lol these comments are wild. The industry has gone entirely to disc brakes. We have this tool and we use it from time to time. Predominantly on disc brake kids bikes and hybrid comfort bikes. When QC is bad it means techs and assemblers take longer to complete builds which costs money truly bad mount facing can look like a post mount brake caliper sliding into rotor when torque is applied. Ive seen calipers shift 4 or so degrees when tightening the caliper. Or slide multiple mils resulting in poor alignment or impossible to eliminate brake rub. Seeing techs take an hour on what should be a quick 5-10 minute job. We have one in our shop and we use it from time to time. We don’t sell super-bikes we sell and service primarily entry level and lower enthusiast level bikes. This is an expensive tool but once you have it will pay for itself eventually. Also it doesn’t seem as wild as the cost of a lot of abbey tools or EVT’s $200 inflator or $600 hanger alignment tool.
I appreciate the tan line. One can immediately see you also actually ride a bike :D Also, great vid. So, can anyone explain to me why we have flat mount in the first place? I constantly hear about issues with flat mount... we had a perfectly working post-mount system from MTB...
@@Featinwe the UCI 6.8kg weight limit is terrible. Everyone wants a bike under 6.8kg regardless of cost or durability. All people look at is cost and weight. Bonkers.
@@Mapdec frankly, I used to do the same as my dad loves building lightweight bikes. Until I did my first ultra-marathon gravel ride where my bike (modified XC with no sus) weighted about 17kgs (incl. food and water). Now, It's cool to have a light bike, but going sub 7kgs starts to be a little crazy. Gladly, I watched your vid on Cinelli Veltrix frame and I'm now about to purchase Cinelli Pressure ADR, my first disc-brake bike! I hope I won't have much problems with brakes ;)
lots of full carbon frame without alloy CNC core parts has this problem, just like the press-fit BB. And they can't do the QA or QC check without damage the fully new frame. It's the installation check, so you know there will be leave some marks while do these. And lots of bike shop in Asia has this tool to show they are 'pr0f3ssi0n4l'. And the tools to milling the press-fit BB.
Or you could just bond a short sharp file, I use a ski edging file onto a 90 degree block of wood, put the back wheel back in, and use the disc as a guide while gently filling the lands. One must ensure the file remains on both lands at all times. I get great results that way but run into trouble if the lands are recessed into a low area in the chainstay. Front forks are usually easier.
Yes. And sometimes we will face these too. However it would need to be really bad as small inconsistencies are sorted with the soft alu washer on Shimano or can be sorted with a cup and cone washer.
More of an issue with frames equipped with the flat mount standard. Mostly road, gravel and XC. Most MTB have post mount which is easier to make flat at factory and you can use cone washers to align. Problems on post mount are when brands paint over the mount faces.
I'm sure I am somehow confused, but should not the datum line be established based on the center of the thru axle? Measuring down from two different points does not take into account the difference in height of those individual points. An extreme example would be if hole "a" mounting surface was 1mm in overall height difference from hole "b" mounting surface, You can measure down from each hole 16mm to establish a datum line but when finished that will only show you the amount of material you removed in reference to that line. The engineering drawing shows each surface being 16mm from a centerline of the thru axle. So you could be all done and have two nice flat surfaces but one could still be almost a mm taller than "Spec" which would still leave an angled mount across the two points. I would think a line would need to be established level at the exact center of the thru axle and then measure 16 mm UP to each mounting surface, and then the surface would have to finish absolutely flat at that mark. To be fair I am neither an engineer nor a current paid professional tech so I could absolutely be wrong. I personally feel that the levelness front to rear of the mount is nowhere near as important or relevant as the side to side levelness which is what is being addressed and needs to be addressed. I am only questioning the datum line because in my opinion it really does not matter what that distance is, just that you establish one, so you have a positive reference to be able to measure removed material.
You are right. But the practicalities of measuring that without some very special tools is challenging. What this video shows is the line drawn will intersect with the centreline of the axle. The height difference is shown up with mounting the adaptor and measuring the gap.
Thanks for raising this - I was confused too (not unusually!). Your points and Paul's reply have clarified - did I miss the bit about the 16mm centre line lining up with the axle on the video? Anyways - all is clear now 👍
Rule #7: "Tan lines should be cultivated and kept razor sharp.Under no circumstances should one be rolling up their sleeves or shorts in an effort to somehow diminish one’s tan lines. Sleeveless jerseys are under no circumstances to be employed." The Keepers of the Cog approve. Fair play.
First of all, that's a QC issue and should never be a problem on any bike frame, certainly not on a expensive one. And second of all, 95% of bike shops that I know, are not able to do this
I actually bought a similar tool… (I love tools!) Disc brakes on Mountain Bikes are much easier to setup. I’d wager and say: if MTB discs rub, they’re bend or your callipers are waaaaaay out of alignment.
@@Mapdec how do those cup and cone washers actually help alignment? I noticed too that aligning brakes on my MTB's is easy, but on my road and gravel bike (both Shimano 105) it's a royal PITA.
Sorry, I still can't believe why S-Works level frame doesn't have brake caliper mount pre-faced. I've got ENVE Melee and Canyon Grizl CF SLX and both are pre-faced. Both of them are far cheaper than S-Works.
Yeah I've been in the bike shop and service industry a long time and ive never seen someone do this before. The reason is it wouldn't really net you anything because any good mechanic can gat any nice brake on any nice frame yo feel fantastic and it would be a way better use of time to bleed some air from the system or get nicer/new rotors/pads.
Calipers arrive to shops installed most of the time and we can't afford to do this stuff to every frame.
The only place you'd see this is at a boutique road bike shop so please don't go into a shop expecting things like this to be routine
It’s so sad that your shop just sells more stuff that won’t long term fix the problem. Mechanics need to be better in this industry and not become salesmen. 😢. New pads and rotors and a calliper service will help only until they wear down inconsistently and begin to rub again. Bikes don come built from factory poorly. It’s our job to fix them.
@@Mapdec This is all a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The very principle of a hydrologic brake system promotes even pad wear even if the caliper isn't perfectly centered. That's part of the reason we bed in brake pads. You're saying that wearing down pads will cause them to rub which means you really suck at brake service or don't understand the very basics of disc brakes. Accusing the industry of being "salespeople" is a clear sign you haven't worked at a local shop. How am I supposed to tell a customer who's complaining about a brake rub that I need to strip their whole rear triangle and brake assembly and use these specialty tools that take valuable time to use only to realize that oh wait, that accomplished nothing and manually aligning the caliper according to the brake manufacturer is perfectly fine and take a couple minutes.
@@carterhughes9655 I own a local shop. This isn’t a media channel. Please read the frame fit specifications from the component brands. Recognise that the major tool brands make this tool for this job. And please offer your customers the service they deserve and fix their bikes properly. If you have never done this job and only revert to selling your poor customers new pads you really can’t comment on its effectiveness or necessity. Please invest in your training and tools. We need to be better.
I’m so upset this is how the cycling industry thinks. Short term fixes that cost riders more and more money. Mechanics are parts salesmen and fitters. 😢
@@Mapdec I get your frustration. My point of view (from Serbia, a poor country):
It would take a lot for the price of that tool to pay for itself.
It would be very difficult to charge for the extra time needed to do such a proper job.
It is a proper job - IMO, such stuff should be checked with every frame, when you first get in its possesion (either new or used - doesn't matter).
Similar goes for checking the headset and BB alignment (at least on metal frames where it can be easily fixed).
Having said that, I am far from delighted with how more and more complicated stuff is getting - and the price of tools.
Keep up the good work. Great video as far as I'm concerned.
Stay cool. :)
Relja
It's a shameful video to bike manufacturers, espcially for the price they charge for high-end, FAULTY frame.
This promblem shouldn't exist.
Well if you look at cars its the same story for high end stuff like mclaren with the panel gaps^^
The companies know stupidly rich people will buy the stuff with a hefty idiot tax anyway, so why bother?
At the end of the day you pay for the bling not the function, because any older bike with a little amount of customization will do the job just fine
@@bergbilch there's a big difference in cosmetical issue and a pure, core function fault. Fucked up brake mounts, void in carbon, 2 fucked hole what would be the bb housing. Those are big problems.
Yes, mostly well-off, "sporty" people buy this kind of stuff who would be as fast as on this bike as on a 20 yearold aluminium bike.
But, this doesn't mean to make high-end things shit.
@@Manetty6 well i totally agree that its fucked up, the whole bike industry is a total mess
they wanna sell new bikes and in order to do that you cant build good bikes, same with any other industry
and people have been already conditioned to buy everything new as soon as a tiny issue arrives
same as bike fitting is totally neglected for the normal consumer, while its the most important
where i come from you cant even test out a saddle or handles in the bike shop, it wouldnt be so hard to have a stationary bike there for people to test stuff out
but everyone just wants to sell new bikes instead of making someone comfortable on a bike
We've been scammed alot in the Bike world, They cant even QC round holes for the BB.....
Hahaha... This has been going on for time immemorial. You would think in this modern age with highly precise processes and tooling, it would be an none issue. It just comes down to laziness and profits.
Great explanation, but it's very sad that QC on a frame as expensive as that S-Works is so bad that it's not being delivered faced correctly from the factory. I expect some of the Decathlon frames to need facing, not S-Works frames that cost a small fortune.
Unacceptable. I don't see why I should bother with most high end brands carbon, alu, ti.
As I need to know if it's made properly, and when I know it might not be I can't recommend not buy it.
I got Nicolai/Geometron. I think I might stick with grams made by Nicolai. But mistakes can happen with any brand, but when there's so much issues with the big brands so much negative press. There clearly is a major problem.
What ever I try later I like to use what I know and trust, known is great and perform to my expectations. Then I can experiment with parts later, not selling parts before I have a better alternative. I've not had to do brake post facing, it's perfect, or anything else now warranty stuff. That's how it should be.
But the list of brands I'm willing to recommend or buy or even consider buying is tiny.
So it would be interesting so know more brands that are decent.
Yep totally agree. Just needs a Hambini style reaming on this frame
You should see mountain bikes guys 🤦
Yes, how the fuck is this a problem. If that tolerance is on a brand spanking new frame it shouldn’t be allowed from the factory. It’s outrageous what we get for our money
Crazy how you're demonstrating this on S-Works frame
Why crazy?🙄
It's a bike.
@@vojvoda9060 yeah and I just called it an overpriced crap
@BadHotPotato I have been working for over 25 years with bikes.....they are crap.
@@vojvoda9060 Crazy because caliper refacing is only needed if the stock facing was faulty. That's an absurdly expensive frame to come with faulty caliper facing, but par for the course with specialized.
@@vojvoda9060 I can assure you that older S-Works frames are absolutely legendary and I do not have any brake rub or need for a calipher refacing, my S-Works Enduro dated 2007 is STILL ripping down, bombing hills almost 20 years later. Updated with a modern drivetrain, Deore XT brakes and big fat Hope 26 ers, I wouldn't trade it for any other frame in the world. I refuse to, untill it reaches end of life. 25 years of experience and my bike almost matches that in life time, surviving a front fork and two rear shocks, a rim set and about 15 cassette's and two cranksets including BB's.
If the day ever comes that I can afford a superbike, I’m definitely gonna be driving the few hundred miles to your workshop to keep the thing maintained! 🚴 Love these technical videos.
Thank you.
I got so sick of alignment problems, that I bought that tool myself. I am a home mechanic, but do service and detailing on a lot of bikes. The tool is a real pain in the ars, but when done correctly the difference can be night and day. Not only my own bikes are now disc brake marvels. I’ve helped quite a few friends as well.
It is alarming indeed that manufacturers don’t take the time to do this properly themselves. In a sidenote: a lot of the Chinese bikes I’ve seen are much better than some big brands.
Thanks MCW for a clear explanation of the proper way to solve this real problem, as I encountered recently. All was good until torquing down the caliper, when you could see it twist, because the mounts were not flat and level. LBS had the correct tool to fix it. Maybe some of the comments you received are from people who never saw these issues, or misunderstood what they were seeing. Cycle industry lacks trained technicians which didn't matter so much years ago, but modern tech has such fine tolerances that you can't get away with sloppy treatment of expensive engineering.
Love what you are doing raising the standards for the industry and the bike shops. Too many bodges out there and frustrated customers with poorly performing bikes. Then wasting resources on money on replacement parts that wear out too fast.
Awesome stuff
I think every 10 or so videos I have to express how much I love this channel. This little wave of cycling "enlightenment period" UA-cam content creators (Macdec, Peak Torque, Hambini, Dylan Johnson, Friction Facts, Road Cycling Academy) is damn refreshing - rationale, logic, reason... fan-bloody-tastic.
(Especially with the hoarde of dorky industry shill channels out there).
Much appreciated 🙏
This is an awesome video, I'm totally sold on rim brakes 😂
You should send the bill to the *manufacturer* instead of the client!
A bike should never leave the factory like that!
If we were the dealer we would. However. The dealership don’t offer this. They just send the frame back. These frames are too rare and the riders just want to ride.
@@Mapdec A rider who just want to ride, will dont care with this problem, not even the pros, they only notice that something is wrong with the bike, and the team mechanics will suck with this, or bike shops. But via this YT chanel I lerned a lot about maintaining , setting up etc. , so is wery helpful, but definetly not for the weekend riders. Thank you !
@@endremajos2566 'just want to ride' means the owner wants to get back out on the bike as soon as possible. It doesn't mean they don't care about the problem. The time difference between a bike shop fixing the problem vs sending the frame off as a warrenty claim is massive.
@@Mapdec I did manage to get my Giant Defy warrantied - not for this issue but the area of the frame for the bottom bracket had not been moulded properly and it was loose. My local mechanic Cyclelink in Thames Ditton discovered the issue immediately when I put the bike in for service (my bad, I guess, for not realising…..) and advised me to warranty it with Giant via the bike shop where I bought it. They were very good and refused to charge me, even though I offered. Also offered to talk with Giant / the bike shop if needed. So they now get all my repair / service business.
To be fair to Giant, they accepted the warranty claim with zero challenge after the shop inspected it. Replaced the frame. But I can understand your customers preferring a repair where possible. The process to get the new frame and then have the bike reassembled by the bike shop took well over a month. In the meantime, I was lucky enough to have an alternative road bike I could use. Giant did not offer any form of hire bike! According to the mechanic though, Giant bikes are typically well made so this is not a gripe on Giant as a manufacturer. They behaved well. I got a new frame out of it. Felt like having a new bike again…..
Excellent video, as always.
It's one thing for a shop to have the tool, it's another for them to know how to use it and yet another to find one that will discuss the procedure with you in order for you to be confident enough to let them undertake the job.
Seems like one would have to be a bit of a mug to pay the S Works premium. At these prices I would expect all this to be Bob on.
Great production values on the vid! You guys are killing it.
I had this done and it absolutely makes a difference. Not only in height, but in the correct alignment to the axle path. I would also say your manufacture would likely never even know if you had a warranty claim.
You’re 100% right , the park DT5.2 is a nightmare of a tool to use. Also I find that most rear flat mounts are not square and require facing from the factory . I really hope the industry gets there act together and resolve this issue
Great video I had an issue recently with the front brake on my mtb. Ended up rebuilding the caliper with new pistons, hope e4 kept sticking on, miles better now with the stainless hybrid pistons. You like to go above and beyond with customer bikes like it’s your own, sadly a lot of shops like easy fixes
The really sad thing is that caliper mounting pads are not absolutely perfect FROM THE FACTORY!
When a company is making hundreds or thousands of frames that are all the same, making a tool to sand those mounting points *perfectly* flat and aligned to the axle is a piece of cake, and would require maybe 30 seconds or a minute to touch-up the front and rear mounting points on a finished frame.
Cyclefix in Poole did a fantastic job on facing my front forks on my Look 785. After a year of my local bike shop making things worse (a lot worse) and others telling me to replace every other part, these guys took an hour to make my front brake perfect
Another great video Paul!
Agreed that this tool is a bear; bought one myself for use in the shop where I work.
Seem to invest in another "required" part every six months for the next wave of technology.
Getting brakes right makes a huge difference for many riders.
Have even done this service many times on kid's bikes with hydraulic brakes.
Nice. 👍
Appalling QC from Specialized. On an S Works frame too. If that's their best I'd hate to see the QC on their cheaper frames.
Unfortunately it’s not that appalling if you’ve worked on a decent amount of specialized. They’re nothing special ironically.
@@steve050867 All specialized carbon frames are the same with the exception of the comp model. All from the same assembly line and QC, just different paint.
I'm so glad it's not just me that loathes that tool, I can't believe the carbon cutter doesn't even attach to the tool, seems like an afterthought. I have a rant every time I get it out of the box 🤣
The absolute irony in me just having done this today on a Specialized Crux delivered to my shop with this exact problem.
Well done sir. Please name your shop. Folk really want to know where the best shops are.
Fair play to you guys... I guarantee most bike shops do not go this far.... Nice to see a proper job in every aspect of your work.... Be good to see some more videos of a full bike service. Keep up the good work
As a side note to contribute… there is a secondary clamp you can use on the main vertical sliding cylinder as a sort of depth set gauge/stopper. So you would (assumingely) start with the affected face, cut it flush, tighten the depth clamp on the before mentioned vertical post that then establishes the cut depth for the entire apparatus moving onto the next face to cut. That way you won’t cut beyond the depth of the first face you did. In the event you can’t verify your work with a feeler gauge that one clamp can help with a consistent result and not over cutting.
I’m surprised not many shops in London don’t have this tool. I work in a small workshop in south east London and have had this tool for years. It’s not only high end frames that need this. The amount of low/mid range bikes that we have to use this on is probably higher.
Awesome. What’s the name of your shop?
@@Mapdec it’s Finches Emporium, we’re based in south east London. We’re mostly known for ski and snowboards. But ive been building up the bike side of the business for the last 10 years now.
@@chriscalifano8842 awesome. 🙌
great video about this topic. i would love to see you do another video covering one piston advancing before the other and sticky pistons in general. including when you replace the rotor and pad how to get them to contact evenly for the best braking. cheers
Maybe. If I feel I can add to the many good videos on that topic.
Really hope a lot of bike mechanics see this video (and a lot of your other videos).
Good video and very interesting as ever. I have come across this problem and found it is ss much to do with the machining finish on the brake mount and caliper as it is to do with the frame. I have had to go to a local engineer to get those parts correctly machied square and flat.
Great job, fine detail takes longer to fix but is worth it.
The fact that we use the same Wera Hex Keys makes me feel somewhat of a professional myself. 😂
Good tools is a great start.
@@MarioGoatse it is I’ve been looking at wera and abbey bike tools recently I want some of them t handle hex and torqx keys
My 11 yr old just his first race and when giving his bike a pre race once over made me feel like a race mechanic 😝😝
@@brettjohnson9453 Legend! I hope he's got many more in him. I bet you were proud.
@@woduk Take a look at Bondhus, I love mine SO much for their minimal tool slop.
Looks very methodical and accurate! I've got my Titanium bike with you for this on the front as we speak. Certainly one to leave to the workshop and not attempt at home!
The Planet X? I think Dan was doing this today.
@Mapdec That's the one!
I really enjoyed that informative tooling video. I could forgive having to correct the mounts on a cheap bike. But for a very expensive s-works it's not good enough QC.
Wow. Awesome video. I think I like my rim brakes even more now.
I love the cutting videos! Such skill!
There is a stop collar hight setter that you could have used on the Park tool to match height on both faces.
Using the stand offs and the tool itself helps check that the two mounting faces are in plane with each other.
I am so fucking glad this came up just now.
My brakes have been howling like a seal because of sticky pistons. This information is great for me just to build up my knowledge.
That's the kind of tan-line you expect from a bike mechanic 😂
The got sun in the UK now.... Well I'll be damned 😅
Thank you guys! It wamrs my mechanics heart!
Also great cultivation of your tan line
Loved the video Paul! Good job 👍
Cheers Grant.
I owned a specialized diverge that needed to be refaced. Apparently specialized is pretty notorious for some poor off the shelf facing. That along with some other problems have me only buying from smaller brands which seem to be a much better QC job.
on a custom frame with carbon fork I had a rubbing issue on the fork. Asked the builder and then another reputable bike shop to do this for me. Both did but the result did not change that much. in the end the issue is that the aluminium insert of the screws in the fork are not very well done and at the last 1/4 turn to torque up the brake caliper, the caliper sits not perfectly straight. The only solution was to fit a 0.5mm shim under the caliper on both mounting points. In case you are wondering, that is an Enve fork. Vowed that I will never ever get anything from Enve again.
wow, that should be a clear warranty job. Did either shop try and retap the threads?
@@Mapdec no they didn't. But why do you think this might help?
Enjoyed that, thank you for the thorough explanation.
Home mechanics should be inspecting the brake pads regularly and can shave or sand the brake pad flat if it develops a ridge or wears unevenly. If the pads do wear unevenly, it is a sign there's some problem with the brakes. It is often something simple like a sticky piston.
I was building a bike, the IS mount tab or fork itself was a bit out of alignment, so used the park tool brake facing tool the face the IS mount brake adapter 😂
Sand the mounts flat any old how and then put those adjusting washers that they use on rim brake pads under the brake mount. Design the frame and brakes so the mount won't sit too high with the washers underneath.
finding a bike shop with facing/alignment tools is such a headache, but truly it is the manufacturer's fault to not do this before the frame leaves the door. as customers we shouldn't accept it.
To give a diff perspective to some commentators: I work in a Bikeshop in Germany and we specialize on mid to high end road and gravel bikes. My more experienced Colleagues of cause do this procedure if the Problem exists, effects the functioning in a significant way and the Frame is sufficiently Valuable.
I myself see an issue with aligning Calipers on Carbon Forks a lot, sometimes its just an issue of carefully filing down errors in the paint or resin overlaps from manufacturing.
Sometimes there are also issues where the glued in threads are just off or they start flexing in an detrimental way long before the specified tork values.
In general my experience is that this is mostly an issue with Carbon Frames and Forks, one of the many reasons I dont enjoy working on the material, even though I can handle it.
In the end that unease you feel is the extra ammount of focus you need to handle Carbon correctly.
We also use the Park-Tool one, its very appreciated.
Also nice to see you use Wera Allen Keys :)
Great video, absolutely agree, if you're selling bikes that command the prices they do, then you better be able to check and deal with such an issue.
If I'm paying the sort of stupid money that manufacturers are getting for those types of frames, I'm most definitely expecting it to come absolutely perfect from the factory/dealer. I'd most definitely not be paying the full price until I've taken the bike for a ride at least around the parking lot to make sure that nothing's not perfect with it
Perfect example of Park Tool not always being the best option. Many of their tools were or are flawed, or not suitable for some, so good alternatives exist.
Their torque wrenches are also awful, horrible play in the ratchet in head, and the head it self, and bit adapter doesn't sit securely. It wiggles and can fall off, even using an tighter adapter I have.
Their hex and Torx let's are rebranded Bondhus.
They took many years before adding flat sockets.
So do the research get tools that suit you, get the best tools for you and the job it's gonna be used for. Make sure it's a quality tool. It might be cheaper or pricier and not from Parktool.
I bought one of these off fb marketplace for $100 from a bike shop closing. I’ve done all my bikes and a couple friends bikes.
It's a shame and yet a good thing you display this on a S-Works frame. There is almost no other brand than this one that is WAY overpriced for the quality you get. And I'm not even going to start about the quality of customer service in terms of warranty with them. Although I absolutely love my Stumpjumper (I got 3 of them...), I highly discourage people from buying any S-Works related stuff. They just don't deserve it.
Besides that, again a quality video! I don't trust any mechanic on my bike (learned to do anything myself, just lacking the tools most of the time) but I would trust you with it.
Done this manually with files more than once, mount caliper,eyeball what's needed,remove caliper,few strokes with file on high point,repeat until ok.
Great video. I miss rim brakes.
I recently had an alignment issue with my rear brake, no matter what I did I could not get the pads to stop rubbing, I could get the pads gapped properly but as soon as I snugged up the bolts the caliper moved sideways causing the pads to rub. I had more or less resigned myself to getting the mounting pads faced somewhere, but noticed that the washer under the bolt heads seemed to be 'dished' so tried a couple of plain hex head bolts and washers and problem solved, no more disc rub! Seems the dishing of the washers was causing the problem!
The tool he will introduce in the next video will be the alignment tool for the thru axle he is currently showing while installing the brake alignment tool. Stay tuned!
Love that S-Works quality 😂
Same with suspension forks, they even leave the brake mounts painted
What's the benefit of not using the little ring to on the perpendicular post that sets the height. It looks like you cut off a while then check with the gauges.
I’ve asked a couple shops to face my bb shell and brake post mounting points and they always refused.
I’m so tempted to start this as a mail order service. I am so ashamed of this industry sometimes.
Missing the good old Sram Avid Juicy breaks with concave and convex washers. /s
In my opinion, the Park tool is too complex.
I made my own that slides back/forth on the through-axle, and has a perfectly flat aluminum block bolted to it at the correct angle and offset. I bonded a piece of 220 grit paper to the flat block. Install on bike, slide the block back and forth on the axle until both mounting pads are clean and flat, and that's it. Once the simple tool is made, the entire process takes maybe a minute. Made one for the front as well, and functions exactly the same way.
If Mapdec has the space, obtaining a lathe and mill for your shop would be well worth the money and space. Many tools can be made fairly simply that work better than what is available to buy (not bashing Park in any way -- they make nice, useful tools).
Nice. I’d love to see that.
You should post it to tool manufacturers like IceToolz or Cyclus!
Please post a pic somewhere I’d love to make my own
@@FOTB407 if you can't reconstruct it from description, chances are you will fail operating it. Better yet, try to build your own from scratch
In theory you do only need 1 surface indeed. Just place it parallel to the chainstay on the highest of the 2 holes and sand until you are at the same level on both. I think it's a more reliable way to make sure you have a flat surface covering the 2 mounting holes, compared to doing one hole and then the other.
Impressive video. Follwoing you from france. A few month ago you managed to explain me why i was having a fast use on my BB pressfit hub on a norco MTB and now I'm understanding my rear brake alignement issues on my road cube . The reference line for the the 16mm is horizintal or from wheel center to BB center ? I'm very disapointed with the bike industry quality
The reference line for the the 16mm is horizintal or from wheel center to BB center ?
3 choices: Time, Look or walk.
One like for the tan line on your arms.
Yep I have seen specialized brake misalignment issue in another UA-cam channel too. This
Shows $14k is the price you pay for marketing not the quality.
Imagine this was a Chinese frame.
Could you make a video of facing the post mount on a MTB fork too?
Yeah. I’m sure it won’t be long. The process is the same though.
You can try the 2.3 or 2.25mm thickness rotor. It's much easier to align than shimano rotor.
Umm. This will affect your bite point
Hope you are not going to build another one of these with Ultegra, good video.
Why not use the stop collar as is highlighted in the instructions from Park. I'm yet to come across a bike where it wouldnt fit if you just set up the tool correctly.
Great question. I tend to only use that on alu bikes when I put a bit more pressure on. With carbon it’s really light.
Interesting comments on the Park Tool DT-5.3. if you had your time again, which tool would you choose?
I had the Hope tool for IS mounts which was really useful. Last time i took a post mount frame to a bike shop, they told me they couldnt fit the tool into my frame (medium frame, PM160 on the chainstay) but still charged me half an hour wirkshop time.
Given i have 4 post mount bikes and ine flat mount, its probably cheaper to buy the tool than try to find a local shop to trust.
should we consider this extra cost when buying a new frame as a standard? Also do the new bikes come (not framsets) have this job done all ready? Is it more common on road then mountain biking?
Depends on the dealer. Good dealers will sort the bike before it gets to you. Bad ones will have you going round in circles with problems.
The VAR tool looks magic but unless I had a high volume shop the price of the VAR CD-14500 would be prohibitive.
I don’t think it’s a case of volume. It’s just case of being tooled up to do a professional job. Some tools might take a decade to pay off, but you just can’t think of it like that.
@@Mapdec That's an extremely noble attitude to work in the interests of your customers. But believe me, that is not at all as common as one might expect. Aside from your technical capability, this makes you and your shop stand out!
@@Mapdec The shop I used to work in, whose boss is aware that the DT-5.2 won't be used as often as he liked, but he knows he has the service to offer to those who really need it. Customers just need to know about it.
I'm confused why they don't make brake mounts that can be adjusted in more than one plane.
I've worked on mtb mounts with rounded washers, like on v-brakes and IMO it solves the whole ordeal.
After you grinded first drop out you did not tightened out the stopper bolt under the grinder , if you Did, you would not need to re-measure how much you grinded off in the first place! Watch Parktool Video for the complete explanation!
Lol these comments are wild. The industry has gone entirely to disc brakes. We have this tool and we use it from time to time. Predominantly on disc brake kids bikes and hybrid comfort bikes. When QC is bad it means techs and assemblers take longer to complete builds which costs money truly bad mount facing can look like a post mount brake caliper sliding into rotor when torque is applied. Ive seen calipers shift 4 or so degrees when tightening the caliper. Or slide multiple mils resulting in poor alignment or impossible to eliminate brake rub. Seeing techs take an hour on what should be a quick 5-10 minute job. We have one in our shop and we use it from time to time. We don’t sell super-bikes we sell and service primarily entry level and lower enthusiast level bikes. This is an expensive tool but once you have it will pay for itself eventually. Also it doesn’t seem as wild as the cost of a lot of abbey tools or EVT’s $200 inflator or $600 hanger alignment tool.
Does it not matter if the mounting bolt threads are not at 90° to the correct y faced brake surface? How is that dealt with?
Not entirely sure if your question. An M5 bolt has a thread angle of 60°
My brake caliper alignment lifestyle consists of thin washers, JB Weld and a dremmel tool.
I appreciate the tan line. One can immediately see you also actually ride a bike :D
Also, great vid. So, can anyone explain to me why we have flat mount in the first place? I constantly hear about issues with flat mount... we had a perfectly working post-mount system from MTB...
People complained they wanted disc brakes to be lighter.
@@Mapdec christ... we are again screwed by a need of saving a few grams... truly, cycling industry is a weird one.
@@Featinwe the UCI 6.8kg weight limit is terrible. Everyone wants a bike under 6.8kg regardless of cost or durability. All people look at is cost and weight. Bonkers.
@@Mapdec frankly, I used to do the same as my dad loves building lightweight bikes. Until I did my first ultra-marathon gravel ride where my bike (modified XC with no sus) weighted about 17kgs (incl. food and water). Now, It's cool to have a light bike, but going sub 7kgs starts to be a little crazy. Gladly, I watched your vid on Cinelli Veltrix frame and I'm now about to purchase Cinelli Pressure ADR, my first disc-brake bike! I hope I won't have much problems with brakes ;)
There are times you repair your bike at home. With issues like this you take it to the LBS.
What is your recommended brand of sunblock? Lush tan lines on your upper arms.
So proud of
lots of full carbon frame without alloy CNC core parts has this problem, just like the press-fit BB. And they can't do the QA or QC check without damage the fully new frame. It's the installation check, so you know there will be leave some marks while do these.
And lots of bike shop in Asia has this tool to show they are 'pr0f3ssi0n4l'. And the tools to milling the press-fit BB.
Or you could just bond a short sharp file, I use a ski edging file onto a 90 degree block of wood, put the back wheel back in, and use the disc as a guide while gently filling the lands. One must ensure the file remains on both lands at all times. I get great results that way but run into trouble if the lands are recessed into a low area in the chainstay. Front forks are usually easier.
You should make a video because I have no idea what you just explained
I can see this working to sort the minor issues of paint overspray etc. I can’t see it working easily with bigger issues. Good effort.
What about the underside of the brake mount? If those are not straight and in line won’t the brake also not sit flush?
Yes. And sometimes we will face these too. However it would need to be really bad as small inconsistencies are sorted with the soft alu washer on Shimano or can be sorted with a cup and cone washer.
Is this issue more common on Carbon Road frames vs any MTB frame?
More of an issue with frames equipped with the flat mount standard. Mostly road, gravel and XC. Most MTB have post mount which is easier to make flat at factory and you can use cone washers to align. Problems on post mount are when brands paint over the mount faces.
Will the standard cutter work on a steel frame?
Of course.
I'm sure I am somehow confused, but should not the datum line be established based on the center of the thru axle? Measuring down from two different points does not take into account the difference in height of those individual points. An extreme example would be if hole "a" mounting surface was 1mm in overall height difference from hole "b" mounting surface, You can measure down from each hole 16mm to establish a datum line but when finished that will only show you the amount of material you removed in reference to that line. The engineering drawing shows each surface being 16mm from a centerline of the thru axle. So you could be all done and have two nice flat surfaces but one could still be almost a mm taller than "Spec" which would still leave an angled mount across the two points. I would think a line would need to be established level at the exact center of the thru axle and then measure 16 mm UP to each mounting surface, and then the surface would have to finish absolutely flat at that mark. To be fair I am neither an engineer nor a current paid professional tech so I could absolutely be wrong. I personally feel that the levelness front to rear of the mount is nowhere near as important or relevant as the side to side levelness which is what is being addressed and needs to be addressed. I am only questioning the datum line because in my opinion it really does not matter what that distance is, just that you establish one, so you have a positive reference to be able to measure removed material.
You are right. But the practicalities of measuring that without some very special tools is challenging. What this video shows is the line drawn will intersect with the centreline of the axle. The height difference is shown up with mounting the adaptor and measuring the gap.
Thanks for raising this - I was confused too (not unusually!).
Your points and Paul's reply have clarified - did I miss the bit about the 16mm centre line lining up with the axle on the video?
Anyways - all is clear now 👍
@@chrisb5824 I got that from reading the technical drawing he showed.@ about the 1:04 mark
No facing tool in that there London? would you adam n eve it guvnor!
I'd love to see how the diamond cutter is sharpened.....
It’s disposable
Why is no one addressing the elephant in the room? Where can you get that “Mechanic” T-shirt?
You get one if you work here. 😀
Can I ask where you get your tools sharpened? I run a shop. Cheers
These ones we send back to park.
Nice tan line. It works like Rapha’s 😂
Lol that arm tan line is crazy
Rule #7: "Tan lines should be cultivated and kept razor sharp.Under no circumstances should one be rolling up their sleeves or shorts in an effort to somehow diminish one’s tan lines. Sleeveless jerseys are under no circumstances to be employed." The Keepers of the Cog approve. Fair play.
07:34 i wish every bike shop or mechanic think like this too
First of all, that's a QC issue and should never be a problem on any bike frame, certainly not on a expensive one. And second of all, 95% of bike shops that I know, are not able to do this
Same case here, of the shops that I know, only ONE has this tool, and I used to work in said shop. I did get to use this tool a few times.
I actually bought a similar tool… (I love tools!) Disc brakes on Mountain Bikes are much easier to setup. I’d wager and say: if MTB discs rub, they’re bend or your callipers are waaaaaay out of alignment.
Yeah. Most MTB disc have a cup and cone washers to help alignment.
@@Mapdec how do those cup and cone washers actually help alignment? I noticed too that aligning brakes on my MTB's is easy, but on my road and gravel bike (both Shimano 105) it's a royal PITA.
Hell of a tan line
So proud of
expensive bike, they don't even want to pay the factory to face their brake seat. It is a joke industry
🙋♂️ I've got bloody warped disc but my new ones have arrived yet 😤
unwarp the disc then. Even new ones can come warped out of the box. Been there done that.
Sorry, I still can't believe why S-Works level frame doesn't have brake caliper mount pre-faced.
I've got ENVE Melee and Canyon Grizl CF SLX and both are pre-faced. Both of them are far cheaper than S-Works.
I hope it's just repainted by the customer or something.
Box fresh from factory