Fixing the base game would be quicker if release was delayed, because all DLC would also be delayed, and they wouldn't be distracted by having to maintain a release build. So probably only 1 year - 18 months.
Worst part is that their base was going nowhere on CS1. These people (myself included) would have played CS1 for another couple of years before looking around for more. Especially knowing they would be working on something big. I probably still wouldn't play 2 if I got it free at this point.
The idea that there’s supposed to be a DLC coming out is insane to me. Like how are you adding a second floor to a dirty shack that’s currently on fire?
This. So much this. Give us a balanced and playable base game before you try to wring any more cash out of anyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if the DLC were boycotted if vanilla isn’t solid by then.
exactly! I am holding on to buying the game because it's not ready. I trust they will turn things around, but when the moment comes and the game is ready, if they have 8 or 10 paid DLCs I will probably won't buy it.
The most damning thing I've seen about the game is how deleting every public transport route has no effect on car traffic. It shows that the whole system is pointless. Also, it'd be a nice olive branch if they add bikes for free.
The 5 year anniversary DLC: Bike lanes! oh, you guys wanted protected bike lanes without cars parked in them all the time? sheesh. more seriously: if the game isn't up to scrath by the end of 2024 I doubt the player base will have any loyalty at all left and will be ready to move on if another good city builder game shows up.
Contrast this with the Life By You team who fully recognized they needed more time to fix and smooth things out and were open and transparent with us while continuing to do weekly UA-cam updates which resulted in the fans being even more invested in the game.
I don’t think you’ve seen the latest comments thread on their last youtube post, while they have their Stans there are also folks with mixed feelings or losing hope about LBY.
I am concerned about LBY because people seem to not understand it's being released as early access and expect a lot more to be done. When it's released, I think there's going to be a lot of criticism because it's not even near a finished game. And there's a lot of people who want things their way. With each of the new life sim games coming out, there's going to be things that don't please or suit everyone. Art style/appearance seems to be the greatest divider which I don't totally get. I still hate how Sims 4 looks but fortunately mods/CC makes it passable. But what's nice is that if gameplay, features, or art is not what you like in one game, there going to be options! Which we havent had before, really. I think CS2 should have been EA.
The only reason there's not more uproar is because it is on PC Game pass, lots of people got to play it in a bad state for "free". This was strategic, no doubt.
as bad as this is with cs2 this is objectively incorrect games would ship out with bugs that would then be never fixed lol part of the reason play testing and qa is less prominent in dev teams now is knowing that a game can be fixed after launch I'm not saying this is right, I do think games should be released with as few bugs as possible but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that games used to launch perfect
when I got started in the 90s and early 2000s many games were literally playable and polished on the cd version as-is. Obviously there were a few major fails but the norm was polished and complete games. nowadays most major games start out in early access with poor performance and gaping holes in their feature lists
@@prazzlerazzle5565 I grew up on the nes snes, genesis, n64, ps1 etc., games almost never shipped in a completely broken state, the only game I can even think it was bad enough to recall the cartridge was N64 WWF No Mercy. There might be a handful of triple A games a year that ship without controversy now...
I think the answer to so many issues in the game could have been easily overcome by embracing the modding community at the very start. That community in CS1 is vast, and they give untold fixes, assets and much more without asking for a thing in return. Instead of depending on a team of 30 people to fix this game, they would have had the worldwide support of people who already could roll out one fix after another in very little time. The longer they take to prioritize this issue, the fewer talented individuals they will ultimately have willing to invest their time on the project in the future. Mod support is one of the biggest failures that could still help turn this game around.
yes but in doing this, now they wont make fixes as fast as there is a community of modders pushing out the fixes in a day or two. and for smooth brains such as myself, mods seem a bit intimidating when youre trying to add to the game, i dont mind taking the time to learn how to use mods properly, however again, it does get rather dumb when you cant get a mod to run or work. CS1 for me was a challenge to mod, and i still cannot figure out the mods for that game. I truly think that modding should be added as there are a lot of simple assets people do make and i can understand how to use. Not bashing your opinion or thought, but with how little a team they have, they may turn to modders to add bug fixes well before they add an actual fix. ive been following the game from a distance for a while now poking in about once a month seeing some minor changes. AGAIN I AM NOT BASHING YOUR THOUGHTS OR OPINION (Some people get really super defensive and start a riot for no reason, not saying you do just giving myself a CYA)
@brandonrashall9157 i agree with your last statements though itd be challenging to pull. There are a couple of modders who now do work for co and a couple of asset creators too. But cs has a tight community and im sure if they genuinely say they fucked up the community can help fix it with mods to a point. This weeks newsletter was an awakening to me just because co is the first company that ive seen that directly confronted genuine criticism about the game and now trying to make us the bad guys. But even if this was very obviously released way too early. Can you really blame co tho? These release windows are dictated by PI.
@@brandonrashall9157 this is already how cities 1 was developed, and it's just everyone seeing how NOW with a new game and refusing to cooperate with steam workshop, Collosal Order is quite literally falling apart trying to fix the problems that modders fixed FOR THEM in CS1!!! it's not as if anything has changed negatively, it's that they've decided to treat their major crutch (the modding community) like trash and throw them aside, and now we all can see how useless they are.
Honestly, if Cyberpunk could be fixed, anything can happen. I feel like if the game does not get good enough in this first year, it won't be fixed in the future.
It comes down to money - games like Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky had massive sales and there was enough money to pay the dev teams to finally bring those games to the state they should have been on release. CO is a lot smaller, has Paradox breathing down its neck, and I suspect sales of CS2 have tanked. So they face the expense of paying for those 30 devs all while burning whatever cash they made from releasing CS2.
@@AEB1066 This is pretty much my concern. CS2 is simply not a profitable product right now, and it won't be until the game is fixed and they get people to comeback. Will the money run out before they can achieve a playable state? Well, we don't know, I don't even think CO is sure of that. 🙃
The difference is that a lot of people enjoyed Cyberpunk (at least on PC) even when it initially came out. I didn't really have any bugs in the release version that kept me from having fun or kept me from finishing the game. The world was already really good, the story was really good, the characters in the story were really good... The game was fun, it just had a lot of technical issues, so people wanted to pick it back up after each update and play it again. CS2 on the other hand is just lacking basic features that people wish for, it is fundamentally broken at its current state.
I feel like this is worth saying, there is a ton of crunch in the game industry and there are endless articles about what this does to game devs. We should have a fixed game, but we should also want these workers to be treated well
Crunch was only really done because once a game was released, you couldn’t fix the problems. So people had to work to get the game in good order because if they didn’t the product would absolutely fail. Now thanks to OTA updates and patches, they know they can just keep plodding on. In fact, it may be in their financial interest to NOT finish the product on time as devs and publishers will still need people to do the work so it actually encourages lazy working.
@@BlackNomad1 Devs usually want to release something good to a point that makes them overwork themselves. While an awful release drops morale to keep working to fix it. CDPR suffered a lot from this. Whether they have OTA updates or not
same. Patches won't fix the underlying problems which are supposed to be the core foundations of their game... Idk how they would ever go about fixing population, cim behavior, the economy as a whole without doing a whole new game. What a disappointment this was... of all the studios in the world I really thought they wouldn't be able to screw this up after having made the single best city builder ever with CS1...
@@TiGGowich was honestly expecting to get more things but much was removed too and let’s not even talk about how education = tax amount and residential density demand
Thought about cycle paths, why couldn't we have stairs too for pedestrian ways? Like it would add quite a lot more depth when there would be stairs in place of a slope that has too much angle to create
The fact they seem so worried about selling us dlc( before the games fixed) just reaffirms my opinion, all these issues are completely based on the fact the game was designs to sell us as much DLC as possible. meaning parts of the game was ripped out and chopped up to sell off. Paradox loves making studios do this for most of the games they publish. thus creating all the issues with the game we had at launch and still have. Just my opinion, But part one didn't seem to have these kinds of problems. I want to play the game I paid for, and cs2 ain't it. sadly.
None of us should buy a single DLC until the base game is in an acceptable state. That will send a big message, as I know they plan to make money from the DLCs for the next few years in their road map.
Sounds like the same path as Cities: 1. Cause I remember how that ran when it came out and damn, that have improved over the years. So be patient everyone🙏
@@riccardopalmas1164 I have the €90 version. I still have faith in the devs. I give them constructive feedback on the forums and that is what we all should do instead of just complaining the game is bad.
Lol, I'm a project manager for a software company and when I create slides that have those process flowcharts: i know it's for a tough meeting. Best of luck to the team, there must be some cracks in the foundation. I mean that in all seriousness, i love cities 2(1k hrs) Good luck.
The really sad bit is that they obviously didn't follow the flow chart leading up to the release. I assume that around the testing phase new steps were added in like The Lamplighters League is a disaster > Paradox needs quick cash to pad the financials > we don't care just release it and milk those pre-order suckers > Paradox CEO gets bonus and goes skiing > CO faces backlash > CO CEO makes dumb comments > CSII crashes and burns > WTF do we do now as Paradox needs that DLC cash so its CEO can holiday in the Bahamas.
PMs are a dime a dozen and so are these charts. They mean nothing if you don't actually follow them. I really want to know how the landfill issue and mail distribution issues got into the game if they have a testing phase.
So the game was released in a state where the overwhelming feedback says it needed fixing fast, and they only have 30 devs on the job? That's the size of a team I'd expect to see on a small indie game. If that's genuinely all Colossal Order can do to fix the problems with CS2, then maybe it's time to just give up on it entirely.
@@sadmanh0 well, sure, you can look up their company and it says that they have 30 employees. And from what I have seen so far this is very much a result of bad production rather than bad developers. They say themselves that they have focused on the wrong things for a lot of the time and it shows in the game as well. Although I might be weird in that I have absolutely no performance issues with my middle of the road system kek
@@longtomjr22 Yeah no, everyone here understands game development isn't 'magic' IoI. That doesn't change the fact they released this years before than they should've, shamefully with concrete plans for DLC already with still no modding and other endless problems ill-fitting for a 'finished' product, while clearly they're still not holding themselves accountable.
For me it sounds like they wanted to also support console players with mods on consoles by unifying the modding hub, but modding for consoles is a really hot topic especially with mods that change the game behavior or aesthetics. Console companies don't want that games don't run perfectly on their platform when people pay for the console and the safe experience. On PC for example you can always buy more RAM when things get out of control or other better hardware to compensate mods. And I think that's the point where things were getting pretty difficult for CO. To ensure all this is almost impossible. I guess if they would have just integrated the steam workshop as in C:S1, then we would have gotten modding support from the resale on. Game versions for Consoles and the difficulties and borders that come with these already broke the necks of plenty of small dev studios. So I hope it's not as bad as I think. C:S2 can be a really good game and I want it to succeed so I really wish CO the best for the upcoming weeks, months and years. They are now finally listening to the players reviews, so let's be constructive and make this game as good as it can be together.
I still cant get past how some mods like traffic manager were not put into the base game for CS 2. Having some of the most popular mods built into the game is all i wanted for CS 2.
Not every feature or fix can be completed in 2 weeks, of course I understand this. Going months between releases, for what amounts to a very broken piece of software, is just not acceptable. In context of their statement, "Only time will tell..." whether they can win back community good will and bring lost players back to the game, is how I interpret that statement. And the answer is simply, not at this pace. It will require delivery of something miraculous with that next patch. You can't raise expectations with long sprints and then fail to deliver anything meaningful to the user base at that interval. I don't think they have the leadership at CO to pull it off. Instead their focus is fractured 'with their small team' which is nearly always a recipe for failure in software.
As a long time Sims 4 player, and having for a long time experienced major malfunctions from EA/Maxis, the nature of the response from Paradox/Colossal Order concerning this first class foul up is actually refreshing.
Refunded after 2 minutes in an empty map on the day of release. It was clear the game was nowhere near ready with the terrible performance. I've played enough games in my years to know when a game isn't ready, and damn, they got a lot of work to do!
I think I managed nearly half an hour before refunding. 238 hours in Skylines 1, never had a problem laying out roads... CS2 I couldn't place roads on a 90 degree grid to save myself. I assume it was performance related, with the clicks being registered slightly later when I'd started to move the mouse. But holy beans did it get frustrating quickly!
With my policy of no pre order ever again, I didn't bought the game yet, but it's still on my radar, I'm patiently waiting for the game to be "finished" if it happen some day.This should have been an early access, not a full release, people would have been more comprehensive with lack of performance, mod support and content.
It's become abundantly clear by the way they communicate that they believe the game not being in a working state is "our problem" because of "our expectations" when in reality they released an unfinished product that had no business being released yet.
Hearing them talk about DLCs makes the whole apology seem hollow. It's like hearing a guy who stole your wallet apologize and promise he'll get around to stealing money from your change jar as soon as he can.
they act like its the community fault for being upset with them when they released a completely broken a borked product and driving expectations up with there marketing. helldivers 2 can manage it with just a few server issue's why the heck cant you.. oh yea i forgot cause greedy ceo's needs another mansion. if i buy a cookie i except a full cookie not 1/4 of one now and the rest of it 3 years down the line.
10:24 well, except we know that it's not all hand on deck for the performance problems, because there's also the people they said are working on getting the console out, which has a ton of non-performance work involved. (Some performance work too, certainly, but plenty of things that don't accrue to PC players.)
Did you really mean to suggest that this video would be de-monetized because you said the word, "deck?" Is that simply because UA-cam misinterprets your Australian accent as thinking you're saying a word that sounds like male body parts by those of us with American accents?
Honestly, I still prefer playing C:S one, now it's a community game and it's playable on potato PCs like mine. I don't expect Colossal Order will fix any of the long lasting bugs or bring any other useful DLC, so we got that already.
For the love of God do not buy an expansion pack or anything else until the base game is fixed with mod support. As intended on release. Wtf? Working on expansion packs when you should ALL be working on fixing the game. Every update you only hear “blah” “blah” and the corporate money gears grinding drowning out everything else. 😢 it’s clear where the real priorities are. If you couldn’t deliver the game as you intended it to be, why would you think you would be able to deliver the fixes at the same time you release expansion packs? At this point I don’t feel they deserve additional money from us via buying expansion packs until they deliver a working base game.😢
I guess I'm in the minority, but I enjoy CS2 and still look forward to playing it. Sure, there's a lot of rough edges, but there's a lot that it has going for it. People need to remember what release CS1 was like!
Their modding comment confirmed that this game was nowhere near ready for release. If you make the promise that a CO game is a moddable one, and this wasn't at release, isn't now, and won't be for the foreseeable future, this should not be a CO released game. I am also disturbed by the statement that although props are frequently requested they are not being actively looked into. Again, this shows just how badly they evaluated their customers.
"We'd much rather be in a different position" -- as usual, what they say just sounds like they dislike the community. They don't say "we should have done it differently", just effectively they say "man it would be nicer if you'd stopped complaining".
Beside imperitor rome I generally have faith in support and improvement for paradox games. My hope is modding and grass. I dont know how/what issues are baked into the game.
With all the negativity surrounding the this arguably great game, I have had no issues with this at all. I know how good Citys Skylines 1 is/was. CS2 will be just as good if not better, and has already moved mountains compared to where they were at launch. I am also glad that they released it the way it was instead of waiting, because I personally could not wait any longer.
I feel like the best reading of only time will tell is basically saying let us cook. Also weekly updates are just a bad idea, it makes modding much harder.
It seems pretty simple to me - allow the game to be open to the steam workshop for mods and assets. Let content creators fix certain things themselves. I've purchased the game and haven't touched it since because it's an unmitigated mess. If I could get my money back, I would.
To be honest, I think them not having bikes and bike lanes have to do with them fudging the simulation. Bikes can’t be simulated driving themselves (like cars for example might be). Let’s see how that goes. Other than that - great video!
The laugh is, the modders have fixed a LOT of the issues 😂😂 unlock all tiles, fixed the income bug, the school admission numbers, paint your own resources, can't remember all 25 l use off the top of my head.
Just shows that this should have first had an early release cycle to get the bugs highlighted and sorted before full release. I also worry about the quality of the testing........ perhaps they should have included some real CS1 players that had large amounts of playtime registered on Steam.
I wished they had added different antialiasing options for the citizens' teeth. I had too much leftover CPU compute time from calculating the cars phasing in and out of the matrix and wished there were options to sink resources into. The game eats too little of it overall. If only they dedicated some time to citizen teeth. That was very important to get right and to get in the game at all.
It took me 5h of play time to realise the simulation is not working at all. Steam refuses to refund, as far as I am concerned they stole my money and this developer is on my black list.
Oh look, the "feedback" process you get if you ask an AI to make you a powerpoint slide with one. If there's not a patch, nothing they say matters at this point.
All they had to do was release a 2.0 version. Better graphics. Mod support and some of the DLCs added into the base game. They aren’t creating the wheel. Simply could’ve just reinvented. Glad I only paid $15 for this early access Alpha release.
Hey mate, I'm from Auckland too, never commuted on a bike. But dammit if I don't want my bikes and bike lanes in CS2! Maybe it's because, deep down, we want to experience that which we have been denied by our useless council?
Nothing in the latest WOTW gave me the feeling that they have the resources in place to fix the game so as to meet the expectations of the majority of players. There are too many technical issues in a very diverse spectrum of problem areas ... and that's before the financial aspects of continuing to fund the repair work are put under scrutiny. Jumbo has been extremely lenient in this video.
I have still been playing the game with mods from thunderstore to make it playable and I am enjoying it more. Even with the mods that fix the land value for instance, when I see the parks and stadiums with no sims in them it makes me feel like WTF. I feel cheated since I bought the ultimate addition and did a pre order. I usually never do either and so much is missing from the game that they promised in the marketing, and when am I getting the DLC that I already paid for? When does this enter the realm of false advertising and get into legal ramifications? I also at the same time really want the game to succeed and be what it should be after having thousands of hours in CS1.
Paradox rushed this not ready game out to boost their end of year financials and please their shareholders. CO were in a no win situation. A Paradox indeed!
They didnt want to be in this situation, but they decided to stay in this situation, and they gladly took our money. I want to see a finished game and some big free dlc's as a compensation before i will even consider buying anything from the company in the future.
I feel really bad for the devs, no dev team who cares about their game would release a game in this state, and I feel like they really DO care. It reeks of Paradox higher-up buisness model malarky
oof. I had high hopes for this game, but after hearing their responses I've lost hope. Sounds like they're going to do the bare minimum and have paid DLC to add all the missing stuff. Edited to say they aren't getting another dime out of me until they fix the current problems. Thank goodness I didn't waste more money on the ultimate edition.
It's so disappointing CS:II is so detached from the state of cities and urban issues globally (and even the history). It was more understandable with CS:I, but it's at this point it's almost a caricature of the narrow focus of "modern" city builders on an urban form basically limited to the American sunbelt. Basically all non-car modes of transportation are irrelevant or missing and this is baked into the core of the game. There's still not even a possibility to craft a city that remotely reflects anything outside North America. Not to mention a place like Amsterdam, even in London bikes are now 20% of all trips.
All the missing features are coming in the next DLCs duh! I can’t wait for the Modding in the City DLC! Hooray! Getting DLCs whilst the core game is lacking, by their own admission, is hilarious.
- "Oh yeah, the game is in a shitty state, main gameplay features are bugged, the simulation is boring af but hey...don't forget to buy the new DLC Bridge and Ports" - What about no? This completely wiped out my expectations for CS2. The usual, greedy, corp mentality (probably pushed by Paradox and their shitty DLCs policy).
I hope they're addressing cars randomly stopping on highways... for no reason... causes traffic jams. WHY ARE YOU STOPPING, backing up, changing lanes, and then driving on. Why are you getting off the hwy, driving the traffic circle, and then getting back on the hwy???
loved the video i love ot dabble in these games. Can we get a video of whats still wrong with the game? Not trying to have you be a complainer to paradox but i really would like to know whats wrong witht the game i am currently playing and im not as tech savvy as most so its nice to know i hope they fix this game and i thinks its pretty damn cool already great video
I know the answer is money, but why did they release the game so early? City Skylines is still a phenomenonal game with lots of appeal. I wouldn't have minded waiting until CS2 was close to a polished finish.
The devs wouldn't be harassed if they just would have put the game out as early access with a $30 price tag. Versus being greedy and charging over $100 for a game that top end gaming pcs were having performance issues with and then gaslighting their fan base.
Bought this game because of the great enjoyment I had with CS1, only to realize that its successor is half baked and didn't even get features from the first game seriously pissed me off
I’ve had unwavering optimism for, and advocacy of, this game since release. However, since the last patch, it’s now unplayable as the game crashes if unpaused. Tickets were raised and Colossal Order blamed my computer (which is high-end and above rec specs). Turns out, it’s not just me impacted by this issue. I’m done. I just cannot sink more time into this game.
Why isn’t the criticism aimed towards Paradox? They’re the publisher. CO seem to get all the hate when they’re trying to fix the issues. I understand constructive criticism, but d*mn, there’s too much hate towards the devs.
You are saying what I put into your comments. As long as I dont have a real Citie experience like Failing on a Citie its not worth playing. When a Citie still is thriving even if you put every Mass Transit like Busses Metro and Train out of your Citie something is wrong with this game. If you dont loose a Ton of Money by doing that Something is wrong with this Engine. You have to fail in this game. Disigning a Citie and Building on are two different things. If Citie Skylines 2 will not change like Citie Skylines 1 this game sorry is not good enough for me. We needs Mods - we need our Workshop, Assets free to place how we desire it to place them not the game. In Citie Skyline 1 we hat over 535 different Maps over 10.000+ Assets. We could take the Assets out of the Modules how we desired it. and here we have to take what is given. That is not an experience. Its to Easy to play.
Geesh. They really released this game ~2 years early. They weren't even close.
Mad ain't it. We pay to test alpha games.
Remember when games come out as a complete project ?, because I'm forgetting that time
Fixing the base game would be quicker if release was delayed, because all DLC would also be delayed, and they wouldn't be distracted by having to maintain a release build. So probably only 1 year - 18 months.
Worst part is that their base was going nowhere on CS1. These people (myself included) would have played CS1 for another couple of years before looking around for more. Especially knowing they would be working on something big. I probably still wouldn't play 2 if I got it free at this point.
Paradox: Nah dw we will fix it with paid DLCs!
I currently have an unplayable city of 230k and 2 billion in cash with no way to spend it, and i did nothing to deserve that amount of money....
The idea that there’s supposed to be a DLC coming out is insane to me.
Like how are you adding a second floor to a dirty shack that’s currently on fire?
This. So much this. Give us a balanced and playable base game before you try to wring any more cash out of anyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if the DLC were boycotted if vanilla isn’t solid by then.
They need to do it because the people that bought the ultimate Edition would feel scammed
@@Skibidy_rizzler_Thing is. They have been scammed.
@@RobbieG17"This, so much this" you are a human cow
exactly! I am holding on to buying the game because it's not ready. I trust they will turn things around, but when the moment comes and the game is ready, if they have 8 or 10 paid DLCs I will probably won't buy it.
The most damning thing I've seen about the game is how deleting every public transport route has no effect on car traffic. It shows that the whole system is pointless. Also, it'd be a nice olive branch if they add bikes for free.
Hey, just look at the bright side. At least you’ll have guaranteed stream of content for the next 4-5 years with these update videos 🙃
I just hope CO made enough from the release to stay solvent long enough to fix it.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
But with much lower interest than CS1
The 5 year anniversary DLC: Bike lanes!
oh, you guys wanted protected bike lanes without cars parked in them all the time? sheesh.
more seriously: if the game isn't up to scrath by the end of 2024 I doubt the player base will have any loyalty at all left and will be ready to move on if another good city builder game shows up.
@@GustavSvardI've been thinking the same. C:S only emerged due to the flop of SimCity. how long until another game fills the vacuum?
So to sum up : nothing is ready. Nothing is near ready.
And we don’t know when it will ready, or if it will work.
However, they are thinking about making it ready - and they have a process!
Ahh, the process, I do the process every day, very good.
Game dev is much harder than many people think, and feedback is a really tricky tightrope you need to walk. Trust me.
They sold it as final product... lol.
Thinking that this game might not be worth playing until the end of the decade makes me feel like I'm going to be too old to enjoy it.😢
But hey on plus side by that time the required pc will be cheap!
@@markvogel5872 Old and very poor too
Just play CS1 with mods
Contrast this with the Life By You team who fully recognized they needed more time to fix and smooth things out and were open and transparent with us while continuing to do weekly UA-cam updates which resulted in the fans being even more invested in the game.
I don’t think you’ve seen the latest comments thread on their last youtube post, while they have their Stans there are also folks with mixed feelings or losing hope about LBY.
LBY still needs a lot of work imo, but at least they recognised it wasn't good enough, refunded all preorders and continue to work on it.
I am concerned about LBY because people seem to not understand it's being released as early access and expect a lot more to be done. When it's released, I think there's going to be a lot of criticism because it's not even near a finished game. And there's a lot of people who want things their way. With each of the new life sim games coming out, there's going to be things that don't please or suit everyone. Art style/appearance seems to be the greatest divider which I don't totally get. I still hate how Sims 4 looks but fortunately mods/CC makes it passable. But what's nice is that if gameplay, features, or art is not what you like in one game, there going to be options! Which we havent had before, really.
I think CS2 should have been EA.
This never used to happen, when a game shipped, that was it. This whole release now fix later needs to stop.
The only reason there's not more uproar is because it is on PC Game pass, lots of people got to play it in a bad state for "free". This was strategic, no doubt.
This isn’t pong. Games didn’t used to be this complicated. Even CS1 was far less complex of a game than CS2.
as bad as this is with cs2
this is objectively incorrect
games would ship out with bugs that would then be never fixed lol
part of the reason play testing and qa is less prominent in dev teams now is knowing that a game can be fixed after launch
I'm not saying this is right, I do think games should be released with as few bugs as possible
but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that games used to launch perfect
when I got started in the 90s and early 2000s many games were literally playable and polished on the cd version as-is. Obviously there were a few major fails but the norm was polished and complete games. nowadays most major games start out in early access with poor performance and gaping holes in their feature lists
@@prazzlerazzle5565 I grew up on the nes snes, genesis, n64, ps1 etc., games almost never shipped in a completely broken state, the only game I can even think it was bad enough to recall the cartridge was N64 WWF No Mercy.
There might be a handful of triple A games a year that ship without controversy now...
I think the answer to so many issues in the game could have been easily overcome by embracing the modding community at the very start. That community in CS1 is vast, and they give untold fixes, assets and much more without asking for a thing in return. Instead of depending on a team of 30 people to fix this game, they would have had the worldwide support of people who already could roll out one fix after another in very little time. The longer they take to prioritize this issue, the fewer talented individuals they will ultimately have willing to invest their time on the project in the future. Mod support is one of the biggest failures that could still help turn this game around.
yes but in doing this, now they wont make fixes as fast as there is a community of modders pushing out the fixes in a day or two. and for smooth brains such as myself, mods seem a bit intimidating when youre trying to add to the game, i dont mind taking the time to learn how to use mods properly, however again, it does get rather dumb when you cant get a mod to run or work. CS1 for me was a challenge to mod, and i still cannot figure out the mods for that game.
I truly think that modding should be added as there are a lot of simple assets people do make and i can understand how to use.
Not bashing your opinion or thought, but with how little a team they have, they may turn to modders to add bug fixes well before they add an actual fix. ive been following the game from a distance for a while now poking in about once a month seeing some minor changes.
AGAIN I AM NOT BASHING YOUR THOUGHTS OR OPINION (Some people get really super defensive and start a riot for no reason, not saying you do just giving myself a CYA)
@brandonrashall9157 i agree with your last statements though itd be challenging to pull. There are a couple of modders who now do work for co and a couple of asset creators too. But cs has a tight community and im sure if they genuinely say they fucked up the community can help fix it with mods to a point. This weeks newsletter was an awakening to me just because co is the first company that ive seen that directly confronted genuine criticism about the game and now trying to make us the bad guys. But even if this was very obviously released way too early. Can you really blame co tho? These release windows are dictated by PI.
@@brandonrashall9157 this is already how cities 1 was developed, and it's just everyone seeing how NOW with a new game and refusing to cooperate with steam workshop, Collosal Order is quite literally falling apart trying to fix the problems that modders fixed FOR THEM in CS1!!! it's not as if anything has changed negatively, it's that they've decided to treat their major crutch (the modding community) like trash and throw them aside, and now we all can see how useless they are.
Honestly, if Cyberpunk could be fixed, anything can happen. I feel like if the game does not get good enough in this first year, it won't be fixed in the future.
It comes down to money - games like Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky had massive sales and there was enough money to pay the dev teams to finally bring those games to the state they should have been on release.
CO is a lot smaller, has Paradox breathing down its neck, and I suspect sales of CS2 have tanked. So they face the expense of paying for those 30 devs all while burning whatever cash they made from releasing CS2.
@@AEB1066 This is pretty much my concern. CS2 is simply not a profitable product right now, and it won't be until the game is fixed and they get people to comeback. Will the money run out before they can achieve a playable state? Well, we don't know, I don't even think CO is sure of that. 🙃
The difference is that a lot of people enjoyed Cyberpunk (at least on PC) even when it initially came out. I didn't really have any bugs in the release version that kept me from having fun or kept me from finishing the game. The world was already really good, the story was really good, the characters in the story were really good... The game was fun, it just had a lot of technical issues, so people wanted to pick it back up after each update and play it again. CS2 on the other hand is just lacking basic features that people wish for, it is fundamentally broken at its current state.
I might add that if you look more or less closely, you can still see that cyberpunk is held together by a thread.
Cyberpunk is not in any way fixed, everything they promised is still a lie
I feel like this is worth saying, there is a ton of crunch in the game industry and there are endless articles about what this does to game devs.
We should have a fixed game, but we should also want these workers to be treated well
Crunch was only really done because once a game was released, you couldn’t fix the problems. So people had to work to get the game in good order because if they didn’t the product would absolutely fail.
Now thanks to OTA updates and patches, they know they can just keep plodding on.
In fact, it may be in their financial interest to NOT finish the product on time as devs and publishers will still need people to do the work so it actually encourages lazy working.
It ultimately comes down to management failures. Both crunch and unfinished game releases are the product of project management failures.
Don't like the company, leave. This is simple. And it isn't like they will keep you employed if you do do your work well.
@@BlackNomad1 I don't really think most people are going about their lives trying to min max their financial value from their job like tha
@@BlackNomad1 Devs usually want to release something good to a point that makes them overwork themselves. While an awful release drops morale to keep working to fix it.
CDPR suffered a lot from this. Whether they have OTA updates or not
I honestly don’t expect it to be really fixed they simply have base things that are just … I have no words really
same. Patches won't fix the underlying problems which are supposed to be the core foundations of their game... Idk how they would ever go about fixing population, cim behavior, the economy as a whole without doing a whole new game. What a disappointment this was... of all the studios in the world I really thought they wouldn't be able to screw this up after having made the single best city builder ever with CS1...
@@TiGGowich was honestly expecting to get more things but much was removed too and let’s not even talk about how education = tax amount and residential density demand
Thought about cycle paths, why couldn't we have stairs too for pedestrian ways? Like it would add quite a lot more depth when there would be stairs in place of a slope that has too much angle to create
I loved how you spelt out the word deck. Kei te pai, bro. With the traffic comment, you must live in Auckland.
JAFA's UNITE - whinging about our shitty traffic 😉
Always a good day when Jumbo uploads CS2 news
The fact they seem so worried about selling us dlc( before the games fixed) just reaffirms my opinion, all these issues are completely based on the fact the game was designs to sell us as much DLC as possible. meaning parts of the game was ripped out and chopped up to sell off. Paradox loves making studios do this for most of the games they publish. thus creating all the issues with the game we had at launch and still have. Just my opinion, But part one didn't seem to have these kinds of problems. I want to play the game I paid for, and cs2 ain't it. sadly.
None of us should buy a single DLC until the base game is in an acceptable state. That will send a big message, as I know they plan to make money from the DLCs for the next few years in their road map.
Sounds like the same path as Cities: 1. Cause I remember how that ran when it came out and damn, that have improved over the years. So be patient everyone🙏
Yes, but Cs1 didn't cost 50-60€ and didn't have a better predecessor nor delivered with promises that didn't happen
@@riccardopalmas1164 I have the €90 version. I still have faith in the devs. I give them constructive feedback on the forums and that is what we all should do instead of just complaining the game is bad.
It's not the same
@@richardthompson7572 If you mean that the game is not the same. No, but the underlying mechanics are way better.
@@DJWezzyKWhat a dvmb azz take. Why in the hell should I be patient when these assholes lied to me and stole my money?
They sound like a decent Kickstarter project :D
Lol, I'm a project manager for a software company and when I create slides that have those process flowcharts: i know it's for a tough meeting. Best of luck to the team, there must be some cracks in the foundation.
I mean that in all seriousness, i love cities 2(1k hrs) Good luck.
The really sad bit is that they obviously didn't follow the flow chart leading up to the release. I assume that around the testing phase new steps were added in like The Lamplighters League is a disaster > Paradox needs quick cash to pad the financials > we don't care just release it and milk those pre-order suckers > Paradox CEO gets bonus and goes skiing > CO faces backlash > CO CEO makes dumb comments > CSII crashes and burns > WTF do we do now as Paradox needs that DLC cash so its CEO can holiday in the Bahamas.
PMs are a dime a dozen and so are these charts. They mean nothing if you don't actually follow them. I really want to know how the landfill issue and mail distribution issues got into the game if they have a testing phase.
So the game was released in a state where the overwhelming feedback says it needed fixing fast, and they only have 30 devs on the job? That's the size of a team I'd expect to see on a small indie game. If that's genuinely all Colossal Order can do to fix the problems with CS2, then maybe it's time to just give up on it entirely.
that's literally the entire company. Colossal Order is a small team, always has been.
@@boreasreal5911And it shows
@@sadmanh0 forgot about the dlc, three tasks at once.
@@sadmanh0 well, sure, you can look up their company and it says that they have 30 employees. And from what I have seen so far this is very much a result of bad production rather than bad developers. They say themselves that they have focused on the wrong things for a lot of the time and it shows in the game as well. Although I might be weird in that I have absolutely no performance issues with my middle of the road system kek
Their feedback process sounds like beta testing processes. Shows how under developed this programme was.
Should've been released as early access, simple as. It's going to take a while to fix, as with any game coming out of early access really.
Nah, you have to follow that kind of feedback cycle for any changes. There are a lot of moving parts, and people working on the game.
we're playing a beta product.
@@incubus_the_man Alpha product. Beta would be feature complete.
@@longtomjr22 Yeah no, everyone here understands game development isn't 'magic' IoI. That doesn't change the fact they released this years before than they should've, shamefully with concrete plans for DLC already with still no modding and other endless problems ill-fitting for a 'finished' product, while clearly they're still not holding themselves accountable.
Make me wonder whether they should've let the modders fix the game then the devs test and add patches
For me it sounds like they wanted to also support console players with mods on consoles by unifying the modding hub, but modding for consoles is a really hot topic especially with mods that change the game behavior or aesthetics. Console companies don't want that games don't run perfectly on their platform when people pay for the console and the safe experience. On PC for example you can always buy more RAM when things get out of control or other better hardware to compensate mods. And I think that's the point where things were getting pretty difficult for CO. To ensure all this is almost impossible. I guess if they would have just integrated the steam workshop as in C:S1, then we would have gotten modding support from the resale on. Game versions for Consoles and the difficulties and borders that come with these already broke the necks of plenty of small dev studios. So I hope it's not as bad as I think. C:S2 can be a really good game and I want it to succeed so I really wish CO the best for the upcoming weeks, months and years. They are now finally listening to the players reviews, so let's be constructive and make this game as good as it can be together.
I still cant get past how some mods like traffic manager were not put into the base game for CS 2. Having some of the most popular mods built into the game is all i wanted for CS 2.
Not every feature or fix can be completed in 2 weeks, of course I understand this. Going months between releases, for what amounts to a very broken piece of software, is just not acceptable.
In context of their statement, "Only time will tell..."
whether they can win back community good will and bring lost players back to the game, is how I interpret that statement. And the answer is simply, not at this pace. It will require delivery of something miraculous with that next patch. You can't raise expectations with long sprints and then fail to deliver anything meaningful to the user base at that interval.
I don't think they have the leadership at CO to pull it off. Instead their focus is fractured 'with their small team' which is nearly always a recipe for failure in software.
yup we need to see weekly updates.
As a long time Sims 4 player, and having for a long time experienced major malfunctions from EA/Maxis, the nature of the response from Paradox/Colossal Order concerning this first class foul up is actually refreshing.
Cities 1 may end up being the best City Building game in the long run.
Refunded after 2 minutes in an empty map on the day of release. It was clear the game was nowhere near ready with the terrible performance. I've played enough games in my years to know when a game isn't ready, and damn, they got a lot of work to do!
i think i refunded twice. was tempted on the last steam sales but thankfully youtubers continual complaining helped stay my hands from clicking 'buy'.
I think I managed nearly half an hour before refunding. 238 hours in Skylines 1, never had a problem laying out roads... CS2 I couldn't place roads on a 90 degree grid to save myself. I assume it was performance related, with the clicks being registered slightly later when I'd started to move the mouse. But holy beans did it get frustrating quickly!
As for bikes and bike paths, they misspelled "DLC".
Thanks. Yours is the only CS2 youtube content that I'm watching right now.
WHY did they not make this an Early Access release?!
5:20 What will you do to set things right ?..........
Colossal - We run !
a rough schedule for DLC who is going to buy DLC while it's in this state?
Train Wreck Simulator ✌️
I’ll come back then in a year, good thing I have Helldivers
With my policy of no pre order ever again, I didn't bought the game yet, but it's still on my radar, I'm patiently waiting for the game to be "finished" if it happen some day.This should have been an early access, not a full release, people would have been more comprehensive with lack of performance, mod support and content.
It's become abundantly clear by the way they communicate that they believe the game not being in a working state is "our problem" because of "our expectations" when in reality they released an unfinished product that had no business being released yet.
Bikes will come in a DLC. not figured that out yet?
I need the refinery only process, oil not grain there’s no space enough for so many grain silos or land to feed that behemoth
Hearing them talk about DLCs makes the whole apology seem hollow. It's like hearing a guy who stole your wallet apologize and promise he'll get around to stealing money from your change jar as soon as he can.
they act like its the community fault for being upset with them when they released a completely broken a borked product and driving expectations up with there marketing. helldivers 2 can manage it with just a few server issue's why the heck cant you.. oh yea i forgot cause greedy ceo's needs another mansion. if i buy a cookie i except a full cookie not 1/4 of one now and the rest of it 3 years down the line.
10:24 well, except we know that it's not all hand on deck for the performance problems, because there's also the people they said are working on getting the console out, which has a ton of non-performance work involved. (Some performance work too, certainly, but plenty of things that don't accrue to PC players.)
Every update validates my decision to wait to build a pc. Think maybe in five years or so when i do this may be playable.
Your graphics quality looks stunning. What graphic card you use?
I don't blame CO paradox needed something to boost their lacking finacial quarterly report, that's why they had to jump on to geting it ready
Man, i wonder when this game is going to release. Sound great!
I went through this with cyberpunk once. But this time i won't buy it until its ready
Did you really mean to suggest that this video would be de-monetized because you said the word, "deck?" Is that simply because UA-cam misinterprets your Australian accent as thinking you're saying a word that sounds like male body parts by those of us with American accents?
Honestly, I still prefer playing C:S one, now it's a community game and it's playable on potato PCs like mine. I don't expect Colossal Order will fix any of the long lasting bugs or bring any other useful DLC, so we got that already.
I wish Shamus Young hadn't died. He would have ripped this apart.
For the love of God do not buy an expansion pack or anything else until the base game is fixed with mod support. As intended on release. Wtf? Working on expansion packs when you should ALL be working on fixing the game. Every update you only hear “blah” “blah” and the corporate money gears grinding drowning out everything else. 😢 it’s clear where the real priorities are. If you couldn’t deliver the game as you intended it to be, why would you think you would be able to deliver the fixes at the same time you release expansion packs? At this point I don’t feel they deserve additional money from us via buying expansion packs until they deliver a working base game.😢
I guess I'm in the minority, but I enjoy CS2 and still look forward to playing it. Sure, there's a lot of rough edges, but there's a lot that it has going for it. People need to remember what release CS1 was like!
I’m glad I waited to get it.. once the fixes are in I will get it on steam sale
Their modding comment confirmed that this game was nowhere near ready for release. If you make the promise that a CO game is a moddable one, and this wasn't at release, isn't now, and won't be for the foreseeable future, this should not be a CO released game. I am also disturbed by the statement that although props are frequently requested they are not being actively looked into. Again, this shows just how badly they evaluated their customers.
"We'd much rather be in a different position" -- as usual, what they say just sounds like they dislike the community. They don't say "we should have done it differently", just effectively they say "man it would be nicer if you'd stopped complaining".
Beside imperitor rome I generally have faith in support and improvement for paradox games. My hope is modding and grass. I dont know how/what issues are baked into the game.
With all the negativity surrounding the this arguably great game, I have had no issues with this at all. I know how good Citys Skylines 1 is/was. CS2 will be just as good if not better, and has already moved mountains compared to where they were at launch. I am also glad that they released it the way it was instead of waiting, because I personally could not wait any longer.
I wonder if they'll ever fix the zoning which keeps breaking and/or refusing to build buildings.
I feel like the best reading of only time will tell is basically saying let us cook.
Also weekly updates are just a bad idea, it makes modding much harder.
Dont tell me they will refund everyone and give the game another year in the oven! 😅
It seems pretty simple to me - allow the game to be open to the steam workshop for mods and assets. Let content creators fix certain things themselves. I've purchased the game and haven't touched it since because it's an unmitigated mess. If I could get my money back, I would.
To be honest, I think them not having bikes and bike lanes have to do with them fudging the simulation. Bikes can’t be simulated driving themselves (like cars for example might be). Let’s see how that goes. Other than that - great video!
The laugh is, the modders have fixed a LOT of the issues 😂😂
unlock all tiles, fixed the income bug, the school admission numbers, paint your own resources, can't remember all 25 l use off the top of my head.
Just shows that this should have first had an early release cycle to get the bugs highlighted and sorted before full release. I also worry about the quality of the testing........ perhaps they should have included some real CS1 players that had large amounts of playtime registered on Steam.
They should do as no man's sky did, fixing the game and launching free dlcs, thats what developers that really care about their work would do
I'm happy to hear they're planning to add "life" through new animations. This is my personal biggest gripe with the sequel.
I wished they had added different antialiasing options for the citizens' teeth. I had too much leftover CPU compute time from calculating the cars phasing in and out of the matrix and wished there were options to sink resources into. The game eats too little of it overall. If only they dedicated some time to citizen teeth. That was very important to get right and to get in the game at all.
It took me 5h of play time to realise the simulation is not working at all. Steam refuses to refund, as far as I am concerned they stole my money and this developer is on my black list.
Strangely enough Word of the Week #14 has vanished from the games community page on Steam.
I’ll admit I’ve found the game fine but, I did wish that parking lots were not set pieces and fillable like residential/commercial zones.
Oh look, the "feedback" process you get if you ask an AI to make you a powerpoint slide with one. If there's not a patch, nothing they say matters at this point.
All they had to do was release a 2.0 version. Better graphics. Mod support and some of the DLCs added into the base game. They aren’t creating the wheel. Simply could’ve just reinvented.
Glad I only paid $15 for this early access Alpha release.
Hey mate, I'm from Auckland too, never commuted on a bike. But dammit if I don't want my bikes and bike lanes in CS2! Maybe it's because, deep down, we want to experience that which we have been denied by our useless council?
Nothing in the latest WOTW gave me the feeling that they have the resources in place to fix the game so as to meet the expectations of the majority of players. There are too many technical issues in a very diverse spectrum of problem areas ... and that's before the financial aspects of continuing to fund the repair work are put under scrutiny.
Jumbo has been extremely lenient in this video.
I have still been playing the game with mods from thunderstore to make it playable and I am enjoying it more. Even with the mods that fix the land value for instance, when I see the parks and stadiums with no sims in them it makes me feel like WTF. I feel cheated since I bought the ultimate addition and did a pre order. I usually never do either and so much is missing from the game that they promised in the marketing, and when am I getting the DLC that I already paid for? When does this enter the realm of false advertising and get into legal ramifications? I also at the same time really want the game to succeed and be what it should be after having thousands of hours in CS1.
Paradox rushed this not ready game out to boost their end of year financials and please their shareholders. CO were in a no win situation. A Paradox indeed!
you cant Build a onegoing Mega Metropolis anymore or you face Mindboggling Lag. And Slowmotion Sims and Transit.
i really wonder how much the dlc will cost. if it is more than 5$ or even free then it probably wont sell at all.
They didnt want to be in this situation, but they decided to stay in this situation, and they gladly took our money. I want to see a finished game and some big free dlc's as a compensation before i will even consider buying anything from the company in the future.
I feel bad for Colossal Order. Paradox had a weaker than expected year, so they forced them to release the game early.
I feel really bad for the devs, no dev team who cares about their game would release a game in this state, and I feel like they really DO care. It reeks of Paradox higher-up buisness model malarky
oof. I had high hopes for this game, but after hearing their responses I've lost hope. Sounds like they're going to do the bare minimum and have paid DLC to add all the missing stuff. Edited to say they aren't getting another dime out of me until they fix the current problems. Thank goodness I didn't waste more money on the ultimate edition.
It's so disappointing CS:II is so detached from the state of cities and urban issues globally (and even the history). It was more understandable with CS:I, but it's at this point it's almost a caricature of the narrow focus of "modern" city builders on an urban form basically limited to the American sunbelt. Basically all non-car modes of transportation are irrelevant or missing and this is baked into the core of the game. There's still not even a possibility to craft a city that remotely reflects anything outside North America. Not to mention a place like Amsterdam, even in London bikes are now 20% of all trips.
All the missing features are coming in the next DLCs duh! I can’t wait for the Modding in the City DLC! Hooray!
Getting DLCs whilst the core game is lacking, by their own admission, is hilarious.
- "Oh yeah, the game is in a shitty state, main gameplay features are bugged, the simulation is boring af but hey...don't forget to buy the new DLC Bridge and Ports"
- What about no?
This completely wiped out my expectations for CS2. The usual, greedy, corp mentality (probably pushed by Paradox and their shitty DLCs policy).
I hope they're addressing cars randomly stopping on highways... for no reason... causes traffic jams. WHY ARE YOU STOPPING, backing up, changing lanes, and then driving on. Why are you getting off the hwy, driving the traffic circle, and then getting back on the hwy???
Fantastic music choices in this video, something to smile about. Well done!
I don’t know when I’ll get around to buying it. Maybe when CS2 has bikes and bike paths.
loved the video i love ot dabble in these games. Can we get a video of whats still wrong with the game? Not trying to have you be a complainer to paradox but i really would like to know whats wrong witht the game i am currently playing and im not as tech savvy as most so its nice to know i hope they fix this game and i thinks its pretty damn cool already great video
I know the answer is money, but why did they release the game so early? City Skylines is still a phenomenonal game with lots of appeal. I wouldn't have minded waiting until CS2 was close to a polished finish.
Long story short...
They knew it wasn't finished but rolled their broken product out for full release sales.
Not fraudulent at all or nothin'...
lol.
The devs wouldn't be harassed if they just would have put the game out as early access with a $30 price tag. Versus being greedy and charging over $100 for a game that top end gaming pcs were having performance issues with and then gaslighting their fan base.
The one thing i want is walkable, European-style cities.
Bought this game because of the great enjoyment I had with CS1, only to realize that its successor is half baked and didn't even get features from the first game seriously pissed me off
Rapid fire: again, they say nothing trustworthy because they say "oh, yeah, it'll definitely have that" just like they did before launch for stuff.
Meanwhile "Workers & Resources: Soviet Republic" is adding construction workers... 😂😮😮😅
I’ve had unwavering optimism for, and advocacy of, this game since release. However, since the last patch, it’s now unplayable as the game crashes if unpaused. Tickets were raised and Colossal Order blamed my computer (which is high-end and above rec specs). Turns out, it’s not just me impacted by this issue. I’m done. I just cannot sink more time into this game.
Video content: explains the process that the devs are taking to improve the game.
My brain: How dare UA-cam be so anti-kiwi!!!
Why isn’t the criticism aimed towards Paradox? They’re the publisher. CO seem to get all the hate when they’re trying to fix the issues. I understand constructive criticism, but d*mn, there’s too much hate towards the devs.
You are saying what I put into your comments.
As long as I dont have a real Citie experience like Failing on a Citie its not worth playing. When a Citie still is thriving even if you put every Mass Transit like Busses Metro and Train out of your Citie something is wrong with this game.
If you dont loose a Ton of Money by doing that Something is wrong with this Engine. You have to fail in this game.
Disigning a Citie and Building on are two different things.
If Citie Skylines 2 will not change like Citie Skylines 1 this game sorry is not good enough for me. We needs Mods - we need our Workshop, Assets free to place how we desire it to place them not the game. In Citie Skyline 1 we hat over 535 different Maps over 10.000+ Assets. We could take the Assets out of the Modules how we desired it. and here we have to take what is given. That is not an experience. Its to Easy to play.