So let the canon vs non-canon war begin! Joking aside I think it makes way more sense for the games to be connected, there are just too many signs that fill some lore gaps and Takahashi loves connecting the lore.
I love Xenoblade X dearly. The people who know me on Twitter can confirm this. But I seriously don't care if X is or isn't canon. All I've personally wanted was for X to get a second chance in the form of a remaster or a direct sequel. It's the story that DESPERATELY needs one due to how lacking it is in the story department. Plus X was before Xenoblade 2. So it doesn't have everything the modern Xenoblade games have. At the end of the day, this whole fandom war is absolutely obnoxious. Unfortunately, you're 100% right when you mentioned this in the video. But Xenotubers have been very obnoxious with how hard they are coping for Xenosaga. It comes to the point where I personally don't want to play Xenosaga because of it. Yes, I'm talking to you, Luxin, Enel, and Xenobits. You're all guilty of this...
Imagine if Xenosaga episode 1 was all we got... That's how Xenoblade X feels, an epilogue wouldnt be enough, it was clearly supposed to be a whole saga, no wonder why it lacks in the story department, it was merely an introduction. Specially looking at the prequel and artbook marterial... there is a LOT of lore potential there. Agree, whether its canon or not, we need a follow up. And yeah, the saga coping is strong in the fandom, thanks to this video I lost 5 subscribers already. Sidenote, we know Takahashi and co like to overcorrect stuff based on the complains (their and the fandom's) they wanted to make a truly connected map and meaningful side content so they made X focused on exploration. The fans complained it lacked story/narrative so the next game was like 1 focused on story. fans complained about confusing exploration so torna and 3 were more lineal. Fans wanted more meaningful exploration, so FR focused in both. Can't wait to see how all of this improvement is carried to a big open world (either XC4 or XCX/2) new xenomap, AND NEXT GEN. XCX on WIiU already has the best map (and best looking world) so we are about to witness the both of a new universe here.
Yeah I'm definitely not a fan of how some Xenotubers have been speaking with 100% confidence that Xenosaga is canon. Xenobits' timeline series is especially weird to me.
I need my Xenosaga copium.(Comment made before watching the video) I think that it would be totally plausible to join both series with how both games end and it wouldn't undermine Xenoblade or Xenosaga in any way. I think that while it being just a reference is a possibility, why would Tetsuya Takahashi go as far as adding 2(possibly 3) Xenosaga references instead of just one thing (like with Gears and Xenoblade X), i mean he literally name dropped Yuriev and used a radio made by VECTOR why was it necessary to confirm Vector's existence on Xenoblade's universe at all? Then the game ends mirroring the final scene of Xenosaga 3 and possibly a blue meteor that could very well be KOS MOS or The Elsa, and this same meteor is in the soundtrack album art, THEN he says that people would understand what would be next by looking at the end and really, what could we figure out about the ending if that blue meteor wasn't a hint of anything that we had knowledge of (except for KOS MOS, Elsa or something from Xenoblade X, there is nothing that we could possibly deduce from that Blue Meteor) Xenoblade 1-3 are a retelling of Xenogears mostly(although, Xenoblade Chronicles 3's narrative HAS A LOT OF XENOSAGA 3, after I analyzed the history of Xenosaga 3 after beating it i realized how much of it Xenoblade 3 took from), still Xenoblade was mostly Gears and since the Fogbeasts hints of Xenoblade taking at very least a similiar direction to Xenosaga were there, but one thing is making it similiar to Xenosaga another thing is confirming things from it in universe like Vector. Tetsuya Takahashi has mentioned before that if he had the chance one day he would like to finish the story of Xenosaga in some way, and looking at how he's apparently in good terms with Bandai(Like KOS MOS appearing on XC2 and the radio), it's not impossible that he could touch on it again in the next games, the only reason he never did anything with Xenogears is because Square Enix is Square Enix, i'm pretty sure that if he could he would also have connected things to Gears in some way(just look at the original Perfect Works idea). Now there are things to consider: 1- Xenosaga was already an attempt to tell the story that he wanted to tell with Gears again but in another way, with Xenoblade being the one attempted that worked maybe he will use the next Saga as a way to "Retell" Xenosaga, he could very well re-use key things like KOS MOS, Dmtri, Vector and etc. But necessarily continue the original Saga story(even then, it would be fairly easy to make KOS MOS a recurring character in the next Xeno game/s and at the end of the Saga she reunite with Shion considering how Saga ends and what was Xenosaga's original plan). 2- KOS MOS on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 alongside T-ELOS could certainly be an issue, although Shulk and Elma were on Xenoblade 2 too and look at what happened... At least for Shulk, although there were dialogue hinting at Shulk and Rex's universes connecting eventually and Elma has a similiar dialogue so i definitively think that Takahashi's plan is to eventually connect X with the main series in some way 3- Xenoblade Chronicles universe is a crazy sci-fi with supernatural shenanigans, so it's not impossible for anything to be retconned, "universes merging", wormhole, multiverse and among multiple other ways to connect things if Tetsuya Takahashi want to do so 4- After i remained skeptic with Future Redeemed and fan theories then Tetsuya Takahashi confirming each theory that i considered stupid or unlikely (things like A being connected to Alvis, Malos being somewhere in that, Riku not being just a common nopon) and others, i just came to realize that the Xeno series are more than willing to make fanservice and give the fans exactly what they want(some people were skeptic of even XC1 and 2 universes connecting after 2's ending lol), so it's not impossible. Edit: I saw a comment about the blue dot being the Origin and i didn't thought about it at all and it makes a lot of sense, especially given that Takahashi already said that he will anwser things aboit it in the next Saga, so.... Turn up the copium, of course, Saga's return is a need for me now that i beat it 🙃
@@hyliastone286 whether Dimitri is the same or not from saga (dates and existence in Earth dont line up) we SHOULD get a JR/Rubedo tho. Either a URTV unit or a direct son of Dmitri (or at least I hope to see a jr like character, one of my faves)
Maybe another piece of evidence would be how it isn't just in english that the saviorites are spelled differently, in xenosaga the name was spelled ザルヴァートル(zaruvatoru) and in Xenoblade it's spelled サルワートル(saruwatoru).
I'm more in the camp that I think the next game will be a a similar vibe to Xenosaga in terms of setting and maybe some lore elements like Realians. Even if I'm wrong, I'm 99% sure, at some point we're gonna find out what happened to the ships that left earth. So no matter what happens, we're back to space babeee!
Considering Xenosaga 3's ending it's not impossible for Lost Jerusalem to have taken a similiar direction to the original world by the time KOS MOS reached it, in fact i think that making KOS MOS a recurring character in the next games and add similar concepts to Saga would be a better way, because Saga was originally about a tale of KOS MOS across time and XS3 was originally the ending of XS2 if things didn't happened. The only sad part is that this could imply that Shion never met again with KOS MOS.
@@renren47618 Agree, Saga already was like an ep1 of PW, and many things pointed at the next saga to be like ep5 or 6. This will be discussed in the next "theories for the next xenoblade" video btw (the idea of returning characters that they had, in saga it was Kosmos and Chaos (anima and animus) (although they also gave their power to Nephilim and Abel, reimagined Elly and Fei origin story?). And in blade we have Malos confirmed to be explored later on, so the male persona/animus checks out, or like from Chaos to Abel, from Malos to Noah?. I also see that whichever og Earth people will do as a group, we could probably see a female protagonist, a reimagined shion from there
I want to fly Mechs!! can't wait for the views, from the planet or from space! I'll touch this topic in the next video. But as said here, Alpha said there was a world like this one (memory stage) out there. And that a fleet went to eta carinae. A reimagined Pilgrimage fleet from saga? they claimed abraaxas there, here it could be named something else. I wonder if they could have summoned the conduit after Klaus death or something. We know there are 2 orbital elevators and their cities missing too, as only Radamanthus tower remained in Alrest, and as Klaus said, only Morytha remained. They were drafted somehwere else. I personally Imagine something like Xenosaga's Rennes le Chateau, fragments of Earth cities floating in space with a twisted beanstalk, but that's too much speculation. mechs are guaranteed tho, every xeno has mechs, no exceptions.
People these days just expected everything to be connected, references are just references until something is literally confirm in the source material.
Alright but how do we explain the huge special thanks to Namco specifically in Future REDEEMED’S credits? What about Xenosaga in the intellectual properties of Xenoblade 3? What about the Across the Kosmos kickstarter for Xenosaga Episode I music officially licensed by Namco? It’s hard to believe something Xenosaga isn’t cooking. Takahashi always follows on his stories and I believe that Xenosaga is next for that even if it’s going to be in a new Xenoblade 4. He will try to connect Xenosaga within 3 games before truly going all in on the 6 game plan Xenosaga was initially realized as. Okay maybe I’m talking very crazy because you make extremely good points in the video but it doesn’t explain all the things lining up for Xenosaga at this very moment. The reason people ignore X’s references as canon is because X is clearly disconnected. Earth blows up at the beginning of the game and such.
"I don't know what the future holds, but that means I can imagine the possibilities" Don't know about making them canon, but I wish Xenoblade, Xenosaga and XCX to coexist someday. For X tho... Earth didn't exactly blow up tho, the implosion and explosion of light came from the Ghost (Origin look alike) ship... it engulfed it in white light and then... the beings that were there like the Ganglion and the Vita were trasported to Mira... and before that, the Manon were also said to be engulfed in a white light and ended there. Plus the fact that Mira is made of different worlds, exists in its own plane, its "moons" are pics from Venus and Mars. That the ghosts pursued the humans, making them land on Mira and that these are not the original humans but descendents/creation of a human like civilization that arrived at the beginning of this universe from another plane... and that Mira was their homeland... (not saying X is canon for this reasons, just giving some arguments, I still think it was a prototype for XC2, 3 and 4)
The special thanks/IP notice thing is probably because of the Dmitri Yuriev namedrop/Vector logo. The Xenosaga Episode I album also doesn't have to be for anything special. Square released the Xenogears OST on streaming platforms earlier this year and nobody is expecting that to be canon. I'd be happy to see Xenosaga again, whether that's through a remastered collection or through an actual continuation. I just don't think it's certain that it's canon to Xenoblade and I even think that a direct connection would ruin both series a little bit for me if it's not handled perfectly. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out, though.
@@imperfectworks7064That’s fair I suppose. But I think people focus on Xenosaga more because a villain Dmitri Yuriev was literally name dropped and his position is consistent with what we know in the Siren Artifice figure lore. Rhadamanthus, Aeceus, and Minos are all noted in the Siren Model kit lore. We know that Dmitri is an extremely important person in the Minos pillar. It’s hard for me to believe it is a simple reference when even Vector was namedropped and has a logo on the radio. Again, I truly don’t believe Xenosaga episode IV is coming and that we will be seeing Shion and KOS-MOS reunited… imo this won’t happen until a 3rd game in a new trilogy if it does happen. For now though if the blue light is in fact KOS-MOS then she will not have her name and be a new gynoid until it is revealed she is the original from Xenosaga. Takahashi has always said he wanted to continue Xenosaga hexaology if he had the funds and imo there’s no better time to do it than now with Xenoblade at the height of popularity. I know a lot of this seems like reaching but we can’t just call everything references when things seem to be lining up. I 100% expect something Xenosaga to happen in the next trilogy even if it isn’t in the first game.
@@kos-mos2084 Or it could just be an alternate universe Dmitri, l can see Monolithsoft reusing names and concepts, but make them an alternate universe version of them, just like Kosmos in 2.
The only problem i see with this is the xenosaga credite, If was just a reference why reconize It legally? And all they use If for was for a logo and name droping a character again If was just a reference why making If a offical use of rights?
This is why I expect something closer to Xenosaga than previous remixes of plot elements were to their originals to be the next Xeno games. It'll be new, but it'll verymuch be in essence "Xenosaga retold as a Xenoblade game" imo, even more than Xenoblade 1-3 is a gears retelling
I think that the armchair lawyer talk going around this point is often very naive. Copyright notices can often just be used as a stronger protection and an agreement between the different entities. In the more modern (post 2019-2020) and legally savy nintendo i'm not surprised that they put up this kind of protection to futureproof their game. For Kos-Mos in Xenoblade 2 the situation is different not only for the very messy developement of the game, that probably didn't give them much time to think about finer details, but also Kos-Mos (and everything that is normally on her, like the vector logo etc...) out of anything saga related has a very weird copyright that is shared between companies and original designers, which makes the situation there much more tricky to dissect i think. Even disregarding the huge plot differences, different universal mechanics and other problems that come up from trying to merge these 2 series (and imo the biggest issue), just saying "it's true because copyright notice" isn't really an argument that holds the candle on its own.
@themiddlecaterpillar8350 You pretty much summed it up perfectly. Many people are jumping the gun. IMO mainly because they want Xenosaga to be canon, rather than it making much sense.
Me, hearing the xenotuber criticism: Why do I feel it’s direct at a certain Hispanic xenotuber with a Mega Gengar profile picture. Well in the end I agree with in the part of not being canon, or at least Xenosaga and X are one of the many other universes that exist in the multiverse, and are referenced in Klaus’ Dialogue with the party of 2. Those universes were probably affected by Klaus’s experiment, but it was a side thing that doesn’t affect the lore of each of those games. Although I believe X is more connected to Klaus’ experiment, because it probably the reason Earth disappeared to another place saving it from destruction to the alien fleets. As for the blue light, like friend once told me, it’s just origin, because it turned blue after the reboot. We are entering the Origin saga.
@@whereswarren3719 It’s Phenomhhh, but his channel is in Spanish, I sometimes see Imperfect Works in the comments, and Phenomhhh is critical about lot of things in 3.
it wasn't (I wrote this with the misinformation/speculation from english xenotubers that are preaching that this or that are CONFIRMED to be canon already, with their followers spreading the word) but it can apply aswell for the case of XC3 and the one you are reffering xD. I think what Future Redeemed did is risky, 'cause no matter what, when we get a definitive answer there'll be people upset saying they were baited, tricked, lied to or that it was a missing opportunity. They won't be able to make everyone happy, but they'll get over it someday and it will be funny to remember the speculative pre XC4 days.
It would be funny if the blue light was Origin, because that heavy and sturdy unbreakable orb falling into orbit with that speed would certainly wipe out a continent and its people. If I had to make the case for X with the alien invasion tho, the existence of the Ares Ouroboros and the Origin looking Ghost ship make it hard, it would be at least the very far future. However we know that data of Earth was stored in core crystals and in A partially. And Origin can reconstruct stuff with data. That along the fact that the Ghosts came to destroy "Earth" and the people from X are not the original humans but made by human looking civilization that appeared in the beginning of the universe from an other plane (and Mira was their homeplanet once)... I think its fair to suppose that XCX Earth is not the original but a recreation by the Origin like Ghost ship (and the humans made by samaar). And Mira would be the original one (like Aionios, its a world made of a fusion of different worlds). Considering that the "moons" in Mira are actually Venus and Mars pictures, and that Mira can come and go from this plane of existence plus all the XC1 references.
@@imperfectworks7064 I mean there is the speculation that the people that came from another dimension are actually the people from Klaus’s experiment that got misplaced in other dimensions, or it could be people from other worlds from Gears and Saga, we don’t know, but it’s fun to speculate. Although I see the destruction of earth in x as a reverse of the recreation of the world in Xenoblade 1. World was imploding in 1. World was exploding in X. Add to the fact, when that happens we see Green and Purple colors in X, could it be a reference to Logos and Pneuma. Or to Moebius and Ouroboros? Nah, I personally think the green and purple being opposites will be an ongoing motif in Xenoblade going forward.
For real. There’s no way for Saga and X and Gears to fit together without something breaking. Being a Transformers fan, this type of direct references are natural to me. Not every Optimus Prime is the same Optimus Prime, and not every Coalition Government is the same Coalition Government.
I still think that X could be canon if it takes place in the very, very far future, but I’d be fine if that’s wrong. I’m sure that whatever they do next will be very good anyway.
The way I see it is Saga and X aren't necessarily canon but they've established that Klaus's world had similarities to those games and the next game will likely be quite sci fi and mech heavy and reuse ideas and concepts from those games.
The problem with this argument is that they could reuse the concept of Vector by making a new idea that is a parallel to it. Make a new company called Vecton and have the logo be slightly different and a different color, avoid paying the licensing from Bandai Namco entirely and make it clear to fans that this is a spiritual succession of the Xenosaga and Xenoblade X story. Instead they show the Vector logo in full and treat it like a major reveal. I think it would be embarrassing for the writers to not assume how the majority of fans would interpret that scene given how it's presented.
Geniunely hate both lol i hope whatever the next game is ends up being hated by them. Not only are they chugga's leeches, they have fanbases that while smaller are equally as dumb (and while enel is a b!tch who cries everytime someone midly criticizes 2, luxin is a moron who thinks himself smart even though he's never been right about anything)
I found this interesting quote from a 2010 interview with Soraya Saga. Interviewer: Personally speaking, what do you consider is the connection between Xenogears and Xenosaga? Saga: I think all Xeno works are, so to speak, like rivers and lakes that once sprung from our mind, eventually became independent. They sure are kin, but not lineal.
Tbh this may be sacrilege to say in this community but I’m tired of the perfect works storyline. Let’s see some new themes from Takahashi beyond the same story structure, motifs, etc. I know it’s Monolith Softs baby but we’ve already explored it, let’s see something new. Hell, let’s see a new IP. And getting away from the super-large-scale kill gods narrative as well to more small-scale narratives.
There are a few reasons why I can see Xenosaga being made cannon in Xenolade. For a start KOS-MOS and Telos have already appeared in XC2 so it's not as if the Saga IP is beyond Monolithsoft in the same way Gears appears to be. The other reason which get people hyped is the fact that we have seen this retconning before in the case of XC1 being retconned to fit with XC2. When they did XC1DE they purposely changed Alvins key necklace to an Agis core crystal to fit with XC2 lore. Thus, if the next project IS a Xenosaga remake I could see them doing the same to those games and altering the lore to fit with the Xenoblade games. Again this is all dependent on if that's the route Monolithsoft choose to go. Again they could be like you said and moving into new uncharted waters with something completely different.
I don’t necessarily think comparing xenogears to xenosaga references is a strong enough argument given they actually have no direct mention, unlike xenosaga which they even got the copyright, to use direct references from it. Its a bit over presumptuous to make a confident guess rn when so much is flexible, and basically multiverse like theories are on the table. There are many ways they can go about it not mentioning how much 2 retconned from 1.
I don't know why everyone assumes canon means that everything takes place on 1 unchangable timeline. You can trace an evolution of biology, technology, and civilization across the different series. Xenogears is less advanced than Xenosaga but takes place much later. I pose that Xenogears happened earlier in the cycle of cosmic evolution, the remnants of which were used by the next universe to accelerate the process. This would mean the universe at the end of FR was not X, nor Saga, nor Gears. It was after they all intersected, which I believe to be X. Cross is a metanarrative representation of U-DO which pulls information from different universes and uses the body of Cross as a means to navigate. This is why Cross has no established character: It's a machine unknowingly being controlled by U-DO. It is also why Cross is the only person able to absorb other classes. U-DO then escapes the mechanical body by first becoming the Fog King, then Zed. It appears Zed and the City had a truce, and if that gave Shulk and Rex access to the U-DO abilities shown in X... we get Oroboros. The classes are directly a plotpoint in 3 and a sidequest has you build the Iris Network, which happens to be not dissimilar to the UMN and operates as the in-game UI, so bringing up gameplay elements in the ludonarrative is justified, in my opinion. I agree that this was not the original intent. However, they hadn't decided whether to canonize anything until late development of 2, and they went ahead and canonized it. With it being a consideration from the first Blade title onward, I doubt they wouldn't write in a failsafe for if the decision was to move forward. And XC2 became canon. The point is that the canon is often contradictory but they are still canon. They just don't follow the story of only one universe in a rigid time A to time B structure. XC3 or FR was probably when they made the final decision. Xenoblde 1 was probably written with some recognition that it might happen someday.
I usually like your content, but acting like anything now is certainty and not mere hypothesis is foolish. There is as much possibility that they are than that they are not, and trying to use previous lore to "prove" anything, when there is a high chance that we, unlike the developers themselves, don't know yet the full picture of what they are building, is silly. Disliked.
I do say that "nothing is confirmed yet", "even IF they are not canon, they are outlines" and that "even I am biased towards my neutral route". But yeah some wording like THE VERY FIRST WORDS I SAID "they are NOT canon" and "they were just that, references" do sound too confident/prideful/full of myself so I apologize, it's just that there are many videos on the opposite espectrum claiming everything is confirmed to be canon, as you say "There is as much possibility that they are than that they are not". I DO however stand for my argument that Dimitri and EarthLifeColonizationProgram cannot be the very same due to different dates and origins. Dimitri made more tha 4400 years after Earth was sealed and ECP in XC2 and 3 existed before finding the conduit while in X it was made after learning about the ghost invasion (and then they created a zohar like machine). Still I appreciate the feedback
@@shulkash8799 I'd blame C O V I D for that and more, as they said they had to work from home for quite a while, they had issues developing, communicating for lore and art. Even the localization team had issues with communication and translation (quite noticeable) and even the VA's didn't meet. Good thing tho, in the latest Monolith recruitment Takahashi wanted to improve the workspace, to have various insights, and the ability to connect those laterally and interconnected. So next game should drastically improve in that department, lore and coherence
@@imperfectworks7064 Honestly I think it’s more Takahashi’s way of writing than Covid. I mean it has been a problem since the xenogears and saga days. The man excludes a much of lore relevant information from the game itself, because of his own over ambitious self and the limited budget, and puts in arts books to explain the convoluted things he left unexplained in the game itself, this is just bandage for his poor planning and foresight. It’s problem that will continue in Xenoblade, because it just quirk of Takahashi’s creative process.
So we're just going to ignore the Concept Art for Origin having literal Saga Zohar Emulators, Verbatim. The entire layout and visual design of the Inside being practically Identical to the Omega System. What is clearly U-DO (Or perhaps a Blade Facsimile for it) Clearly in the image. Not to mention. KOS-MOS Refrain having "Designed by Shion Uzuki and Allen Ridgeley in her textures? If it were merely references. Why would Takahashi go so far as to specifically license KOS-MOS and Yuriev along with Vector's logo... plus the Life Recycling Act from Bandai Namco just for it to be a fun reference with no actual significance? Drone designs in Origin matching Gnosis found in the Encephalon in Episode II very closely. It feels like an awful lot to Mirror into another series consistency if it is really all but a reference. Elma exists as a stand-in for KOS-MOS. Blade 1 and 2 have many connections and their worlds were connected. Is it not reasonable to think that the intention is to connect Xenosaga and Gears in some way? Obviously legal hurdles exist. But the intention has been there from the start! Timelines are also not a perfect way to explain away these commonalities. Because both Mira and Aionios were suspended in space-time in some manner we don't yet know of! It also should be noted that the Ending sequence for Future Redeemed matches up perfectly with Episode III! Even down to some of the words spoken! Of course, Like you said. Nothing is confirmed, But it's not like these discussions hurt the perception of the story in anyway. If anything I feel like it enhances it. Tie all of these disparate narratives together across a single thread! That's also without getting into the implications of each Universe having their own flavor of Deus! Great video with some good points! Even if I disagree!
The issue is that Origin's interior also is identical to Deus Merkavah. And the Zohar art we saw then evolved to be Xenogears like Memory monoliths instead, and from that it evolved into Core crystal/Omega fetter cubes. And in that zohar concept art, the thing in the back is the rift (you can see it like this during alpha's 2nd form with a free camera) and many said it looked like gears' zohar eye before (you are right tho, alpha is kinda like Udo wanting to destroy the lower domain as a failsafe and Wave existence from gears when it wanted to depart to its dimension destroying Fei's world in the process) Kosmos is an interesting case tho, less need for credit due to some weird co ownership with the artist, unlike Yuriev and Vector. It was saviorite human rights bill tho, not the same as recycling act? (unless its localization) drone designs also look like XCX ghosts and some Xenogears wels and angels. Yeah Mira and Aionios are weird space time wise, but that doesnt have anything to do with Dimitri existing more than 4400 years before his actual creation. The ending sequence of episode 3 also matches the beginning of XCX. And as shown in the video, every xeno has had a blue light at the end. Xenogears as a blue comet, Kosmos drifting as a comet, Blue light surrounding the orbital ring, the white whale thrusters, the Radamanthus escape thrusters, etc. For me, its hard to picture Wilhem, Z testaments, moebius, Zanza, Trinity, Chaos as existing together as they would be too redundant. Its hard to imagine Jesus Christ as a Nintendo character xD (they tend to avoid religious symbolism, no jesus for smash) Ihowever, if they were to make it canon, they'll obviously would have to make tons of retcons (too many, dates and characters existing in earth, zohar's functions, etc). But the trinity processor is a biocomputer (siren model lore) it has organic components inside... they could make it be more anima vessels/parts of chaos (and would explain why Alvis looks like him) just an idea. The next Xenosaga was heavily implied to be a reimagining of gears tho.
I prefer to keep an open mind about these things, of course blind hype is not the way to go about it, like you said it just leads to disappointment when things don't turn out as you expect! I believe that Elma was always a contingency for if legal boundaries arose in using KOS-MOS. It's funny in a Meta sense because Nephilim in Episode I shows to us how Saga was intended to end. With KOS-MOS fighting U-DO in the far future, But like she says, a small ripple can change everything. Which... essentially happened with the series itself. Now we're kind of in that same spot. What was used to represent that? An Open Door, We're standing at the door in view of an uncertain future. So basically I think it's literal. The door is wide open for all manner of ideas to come to fruition but we won't actually know what it is until we actually get it! The Jesus comment is also Interesting because in early concepts. Chaos WAS basically Jesus. Also The redundancies are present even in Saga! Dr Masuda first activates the Zohar. (Which was essentially recapped in the Siren Model Kit blurb) Then we get the Major Time skip. But that also skips when Grimoire Verum used his daughter as a Vessel to activate it himself! Things played out differently in Blade which let to a different outcome. Think of it like the branches of a tree! Blade's Timeline is possibly just another cycle of the Eternal Recurrence. If you narrow yourself to specifically events that happen within Saga itself you get a lot of inconsistencies. But the universe is flexible! Also interesting to note. (Obviously not canon to the main series as we know at least) But Project X Zone has crossovers with Blade and Saga where T-elos speculates if the Mechonis Fallen Arm is part of Lost Jerusalem. Sorry for the wall of text! (;^ω^) (Jesus for Smash!)
I hate doing this but this whole video is just you rambling and you haven't disproven anything. It's very clear that your a XenoBlade purest and you don't like or want Xenosaga or XenoBlade X to be apart of this series so your trying to spread misinformation. I can dismantle this whole video by saying one thing and that's only Tetsuya Takahashi and Monolith Soft get to decide what is and isn't canon with their official Xeno series not the Xenoblade fanbase. So as it stands the entire Xenosaga trilogy and XenoBlade X are indeed canon with XenoBlade and nothing is going to change that.
I like Saga and X but their lore is just not compatible. in Saga Dmitri didn't exist on Earth, The experiment was done by Verum and Wilhem shrinked Earth, which came back thanks to Abel's ark, in Blade the experiment was by Klaus and it split Earth instead, coming back together thanks to Origin. In X the coalition goverment was created after ELma arrived to warn about Earth and then they made the arks and DM engine, in Blade, the coalition goverment existed even years before finding the conduit. They are still important stories for monolith and blueprints for the next games. As you said Takahashi and Monolith Soft get to decide what is and isn't canon with their official Xeno series not the Xenoblade fanbase. They haven't confirmed Gears Saga nor X to be canon either. None of us know yet. Does patches and the moonlight sword make Demon souls, dark souls, Bloodborne and Elden Ring all canon/same universe? As Takahashi said about Gears fans thinking Saga was going to be part of Gears canon "self parodies/cameos" Xeno has always being very self referencing. Forcing Saga or X to be canon would need more than simple retcons, why dismantle those crafted stories to fit another? Only Xenoblade 4 will prove which team is right or wrong. Or maybe we are all wrong. But saying I WANT to spread misinformation comes from your Bias, from my point of view Saga fans are spreading misinformation saying its confirmed, that's why I made this video.
@@imperfectworks7064 Bro use some spaces between paragraphs it helps so I'm only going to skim this. I saw you brought up the Souls series so I'll at least answer that. Does the Moonlight Greatsword connect the Souls series together? Answer No, reason being it's not a Souls weapon as it originated from a game called King's Field and it was called the Moonlight Sword in that game. This weapon has appeared in all of FromSofts games expect Sekiro. Next you'll want to know are all the Souls games connected to each other? Answer No, only Dark Souls 1-3 are connected the other games take place in their own worlds with their own stories and lore as that is how FromSoft has set them up hence why they keep changing the name. I know you'll ask so I'll cover it, what about Monolith Soft's Xeno games and the name changes? Answer to avoid copyright infringement as the name change was forced. Keep in mind this only applies to Xenosaga as Namco got the rights to the IP because they paid for the development of ALL of the Xenosaga games that Monolith Soft ever made. So when Nintendo bought Monolith out in 2007 they could no longer use the name Xenosaga due to Bandai Namco owning the rights to the IP. That's why they changed name to Xenoblade but it was never their plan to have these games be separate from each other. That's why in Xenoblade 2 and onward they started adding all the Xenosaga connections, characters and retcons so they could officially connect these IP's back together in Future Redeemed. For Xenoblade X there's more of an argument to be made here that it's it's own story and has it's own lore. As it's clearly not connected to either Saga or Blade as only Elma has appeared in Xenoblade 2 and that was through DLC. Other then that there are no other Xenoblade X connections or characters that appear in the Xenoblade story that I'm aware of.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Blue light is the baby from 2001 a space odyssey, Takahashi told me
3:32 that's what i thought during the radio lore dump, yuriev is WAY farther down the timeline than lost jerusalem era 🤔
So let the canon vs non-canon war begin! Joking aside I think it makes way more sense for the games to be connected, there are just too many signs that fill some lore gaps and Takahashi loves connecting the lore.
I love Xenoblade X dearly. The people who know me on Twitter can confirm this. But I seriously don't care if X is or isn't canon. All I've personally wanted was for X to get a second chance in the form of a remaster or a direct sequel. It's the story that DESPERATELY needs one due to how lacking it is in the story department. Plus X was before Xenoblade 2. So it doesn't have everything the modern Xenoblade games have.
At the end of the day, this whole fandom war is absolutely obnoxious. Unfortunately, you're 100% right when you mentioned this in the video. But Xenotubers have been very obnoxious with how hard they are coping for Xenosaga. It comes to the point where I personally don't want to play Xenosaga because of it. Yes, I'm talking to you, Luxin, Enel, and Xenobits. You're all guilty of this...
Imagine if Xenosaga episode 1 was all we got... That's how Xenoblade X feels, an epilogue wouldnt be enough, it was clearly supposed to be a whole saga, no wonder why it lacks in the story department, it was merely an introduction. Specially looking at the prequel and artbook marterial... there is a LOT of lore potential there. Agree, whether its canon or not, we need a follow up. And yeah, the saga coping is strong in the fandom, thanks to this video I lost 5 subscribers already. Sidenote, we know Takahashi and co like to overcorrect stuff based on the complains (their and the fandom's) they wanted to make a truly connected map and meaningful side content so they made X focused on exploration. The fans complained it lacked story/narrative so the next game was like 1 focused on story. fans complained about confusing exploration so torna and 3 were more lineal. Fans wanted more meaningful exploration, so FR focused in both. Can't wait to see how all of this improvement is carried to a big open world (either XC4 or XCX/2) new xenomap, AND NEXT GEN. XCX on WIiU already has the best map (and best looking world) so we are about to witness the both of a new universe here.
Yeah I'm definitely not a fan of how some Xenotubers have been speaking with 100% confidence that Xenosaga is canon. Xenobits' timeline series is especially weird to me.
@@totalradlad the "Xenoblade timeline" looks inside: oops, its all xenosaga
I need my Xenosaga copium.(Comment made before watching the video)
I think that it would be totally plausible to join both series with how both games end and it wouldn't undermine Xenoblade or Xenosaga in any way.
I think that while it being just a reference is a possibility, why would Tetsuya Takahashi go as far as adding 2(possibly 3) Xenosaga references instead of just one thing (like with Gears and Xenoblade X), i mean he literally name dropped Yuriev and used a radio made by VECTOR why was it necessary to confirm Vector's existence on Xenoblade's universe at all?
Then the game ends mirroring the final scene of Xenosaga 3 and possibly a blue meteor that could very well be KOS MOS or The Elsa, and this same meteor is in the soundtrack album art, THEN he says that people would understand what would be next by looking at the end and really, what could we figure out about the ending if that blue meteor wasn't a hint of anything that we had knowledge of (except for KOS MOS, Elsa or something from Xenoblade X, there is nothing that we could possibly deduce from that Blue Meteor)
Xenoblade 1-3 are a retelling of Xenogears mostly(although, Xenoblade Chronicles 3's narrative HAS A LOT OF XENOSAGA 3, after I analyzed the history of Xenosaga 3 after beating it i realized how much of it Xenoblade 3 took from), still Xenoblade was mostly Gears and since the Fogbeasts hints of Xenoblade taking at very least a similiar direction to Xenosaga were there, but one thing is making it similiar to Xenosaga another thing is confirming things from it in universe like Vector.
Tetsuya Takahashi has mentioned before that if he had the chance one day he would like to finish the story of Xenosaga in some way, and looking at how he's apparently in good terms with Bandai(Like KOS MOS appearing on XC2 and the radio), it's not impossible that he could touch on it again in the next games, the only reason he never did anything with Xenogears is because Square Enix is Square Enix, i'm pretty sure that if he could he would also have connected things to Gears in some way(just look at the original Perfect Works idea).
Now there are things to consider:
1- Xenosaga was already an attempt to tell the story that he wanted to tell with Gears again but in another way, with Xenoblade being the one attempted that worked maybe he will use the next Saga as a way to "Retell" Xenosaga, he could very well re-use key things like KOS MOS, Dmtri, Vector and etc. But necessarily continue the original Saga story(even then, it would be fairly easy to make KOS MOS a recurring character in the next Xeno game/s and at the end of the Saga she reunite with Shion considering how Saga ends and what was Xenosaga's original plan).
2- KOS MOS on Xenoblade Chronicles 2 alongside T-ELOS could certainly be an issue, although Shulk and Elma were on Xenoblade 2 too and look at what happened... At least for Shulk, although there were dialogue hinting at Shulk and Rex's universes connecting eventually and Elma has a similiar dialogue so i definitively think that Takahashi's plan is to eventually connect X with the main series in some way
3- Xenoblade Chronicles universe is a crazy sci-fi with supernatural shenanigans, so it's not impossible for anything to be retconned, "universes merging", wormhole, multiverse and among multiple other ways to connect things if Tetsuya Takahashi want to do so
4- After i remained skeptic with Future Redeemed and fan theories then Tetsuya Takahashi confirming each theory that i considered stupid or unlikely (things like A being connected to Alvis, Malos being somewhere in that, Riku not being just a common nopon) and others, i just came to realize that the Xeno series are more than willing to make fanservice and give the fans exactly what they want(some people were skeptic of even XC1 and 2 universes connecting after 2's ending lol), so it's not impossible.
Edit: I saw a comment about the blue dot being the Origin and i didn't thought about it at all and it makes a lot of sense, especially given that Takahashi already said that he will anwser things aboit it in the next Saga, so.... Turn up the copium, of course, Saga's return is a need for me now that i beat it 🙃
The more time passes, the more I hope this is indeed the case. I still want *a* Shion Uzuki in the next game, though, y'know?
Like, I want new versions of most if not all of the old characters
This is fair I would be excited for what’s next regardless
@@hyliastone286 whether Dimitri is the same or not from saga (dates and existence in Earth dont line up) we SHOULD get a JR/Rubedo tho. Either a URTV unit or a direct son of Dmitri (or at least I hope to see a jr like character, one of my faves)
@@imperfectworks7064 Same. I want at least the archetypes, but it would be nice if we explicitly got most of the same cast even by name
Maybe another piece of evidence would be how it isn't just in english that the saviorites are spelled differently, in xenosaga the name was spelled ザルヴァートル(zaruvatoru) and in Xenoblade it's spelled サルワートル(saruwatoru).
I'm more in the camp that I think the next game will be a a similar vibe to Xenosaga in terms of setting and maybe some lore elements like Realians. Even if I'm wrong, I'm 99% sure, at some point we're gonna find out what happened to the ships that left earth.
So no matter what happens, we're back to space babeee!
Considering Xenosaga 3's ending it's not impossible for Lost Jerusalem to have taken a similiar direction to the original world by the time KOS MOS reached it, in fact i think that making KOS MOS a recurring character in the next games and add similar concepts to Saga would be a better way, because Saga was originally about a tale of KOS MOS across time and XS3 was originally the ending of XS2 if things didn't happened.
The only sad part is that this could imply that Shion never met again with KOS MOS.
@@renren47618 Agree, Saga already was like an ep1 of PW, and many things pointed at the next saga to be like ep5 or 6. This will be discussed in the next "theories for the next xenoblade" video btw (the idea of returning characters that they had, in saga it was Kosmos and Chaos (anima and animus) (although they also gave their power to Nephilim and Abel, reimagined Elly and Fei origin story?). And in blade we have Malos confirmed to be explored later on, so the male persona/animus checks out, or like from Chaos to Abel, from Malos to Noah?. I also see that whichever og Earth people will do as a group, we could probably see a female protagonist, a reimagined shion from there
I want to fly Mechs!! can't wait for the views, from the planet or from space! I'll touch this topic in the next video. But as said here, Alpha said there was a world like this one (memory stage) out there. And that a fleet went to eta carinae. A reimagined Pilgrimage fleet from saga? they claimed abraaxas there, here it could be named something else. I wonder if they could have summoned the conduit after Klaus death or something. We know there are 2 orbital elevators and their cities missing too, as only Radamanthus tower remained in Alrest, and as Klaus said, only Morytha remained. They were drafted somehwere else. I personally Imagine something like Xenosaga's Rennes le Chateau, fragments of Earth cities floating in space with a twisted beanstalk, but that's too much speculation. mechs are guaranteed tho, every xeno has mechs, no exceptions.
People these days just expected everything to be connected, references are just references until something is literally confirm in the source material.
Marvel rot or modern internet culture's at fault?
@@imperfectworks7064 Both?
Alright but how do we explain the huge special thanks to Namco specifically in Future REDEEMED’S credits? What about Xenosaga in the intellectual properties of Xenoblade 3? What about the Across the Kosmos kickstarter for Xenosaga Episode I music officially licensed by Namco? It’s hard to believe something Xenosaga isn’t cooking. Takahashi always follows on his stories and I believe that Xenosaga is next for that even if it’s going to be in a new Xenoblade 4. He will try to connect Xenosaga within 3 games before truly going all in on the 6 game plan Xenosaga was initially realized as. Okay maybe I’m talking very crazy because you make extremely good points in the video but it doesn’t explain all the things lining up for Xenosaga at this very moment. The reason people ignore X’s references as canon is because X is clearly disconnected. Earth blows up at the beginning of the game and such.
"I don't know what the future holds, but that means I can imagine the possibilities" Don't know about making them canon, but I wish Xenoblade, Xenosaga and XCX to coexist someday. For X tho... Earth didn't exactly blow up tho, the implosion and explosion of light came from the Ghost (Origin look alike) ship... it engulfed it in white light and then... the beings that were there like the Ganglion and the Vita were trasported to Mira... and before that, the Manon were also said to be engulfed in a white light and ended there. Plus the fact that Mira is made of different worlds, exists in its own plane, its "moons" are pics from Venus and Mars. That the ghosts pursued the humans, making them land on Mira and that these are not the original humans but descendents/creation of a human like civilization that arrived at the beginning of this universe from another plane... and that Mira was their homeland... (not saying X is canon for this reasons, just giving some arguments, I still think it was a prototype for XC2, 3 and 4)
The special thanks/IP notice thing is probably because of the Dmitri Yuriev namedrop/Vector logo. The Xenosaga Episode I album also doesn't have to be for anything special. Square released the Xenogears OST on streaming platforms earlier this year and nobody is expecting that to be canon.
I'd be happy to see Xenosaga again, whether that's through a remastered collection or through an actual continuation. I just don't think it's certain that it's canon to Xenoblade and I even think that a direct connection would ruin both series a little bit for me if it's not handled perfectly. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out, though.
@@imperfectworks7064That’s fair I suppose. But I think people focus on Xenosaga more because a villain Dmitri Yuriev was literally name dropped and his position is consistent with what we know in the Siren Artifice figure lore. Rhadamanthus, Aeceus, and Minos are all noted in the Siren Model kit lore. We know that Dmitri is an extremely important person in the Minos pillar. It’s hard for me to believe it is a simple reference when even Vector was namedropped and has a logo on the radio. Again, I truly don’t believe Xenosaga episode IV is coming and that we will be seeing Shion and KOS-MOS reunited… imo this won’t happen until a 3rd game in a new trilogy if it does happen. For now though if the blue light is in fact KOS-MOS then she will not have her name and be a new gynoid until it is revealed she is the original from Xenosaga. Takahashi has always said he wanted to continue Xenosaga hexaology if he had the funds and imo there’s no better time to do it than now with Xenoblade at the height of popularity. I know a lot of this seems like reaching but we can’t just call everything references when things seem to be lining up. I 100% expect something Xenosaga to happen in the next trilogy even if it isn’t in the first game.
@@kos-mos2084 Or it could just be an alternate universe Dmitri, l can see Monolithsoft reusing names and concepts, but make them an alternate universe version of them, just like Kosmos in 2.
The only problem i see with this is the xenosaga credite, If was just a reference why reconize It legally? And all they use If for was for a logo and name droping a character again If was just a reference why making If a offical use of rights?
This is why I expect something closer to Xenosaga than previous remixes of plot elements were to their originals to be the next Xeno games. It'll be new, but it'll verymuch be in essence "Xenosaga retold as a Xenoblade game" imo, even more than Xenoblade 1-3 is a gears retelling
I think that the armchair lawyer talk going around this point is often very naive. Copyright notices can often just be used as a stronger protection and an agreement between the different entities. In the more modern (post 2019-2020) and legally savy nintendo i'm not surprised that they put up this kind of protection to futureproof their game. For Kos-Mos in Xenoblade 2 the situation is different not only for the very messy developement of the game, that probably didn't give them much time to think about finer details, but also Kos-Mos (and everything that is normally on her, like the vector logo etc...) out of anything saga related has a very weird copyright that is shared between companies and original designers, which makes the situation there much more tricky to dissect i think.
Even disregarding the huge plot differences, different universal mechanics and other problems that come up from trying to merge these 2 series (and imo the biggest issue), just saying "it's true because copyright notice" isn't really an argument that holds the candle on its own.
@themiddlecaterpillar8350 You pretty much summed it up perfectly. Many people are jumping the gun. IMO mainly because they want Xenosaga to be canon, rather than it making much sense.
@@themiddlecaterpillar8350 This is a measured take on the situation. Everyone should try to be a little more like caterpillar here.
@@whereswarren3719the real übermensch
Me, hearing the xenotuber criticism: Why do I feel it’s direct at a certain Hispanic xenotuber with a Mega Gengar profile picture.
Well in the end I agree with in the part of not being canon, or at least Xenosaga and X are one of the many other universes that exist in the multiverse, and are referenced in Klaus’ Dialogue with the party of 2.
Those universes were probably affected by Klaus’s experiment, but it was a side thing that doesn’t affect the lore of each of those games.
Although I believe X is more connected to Klaus’ experiment, because it probably the reason Earth disappeared to another place saving it from destruction to the alien fleets.
As for the blue light, like friend once told me, it’s just origin, because it turned blue after the reboot. We are entering the Origin saga.
Who is the Hispanic xenotuber with a Mega Gengar profile picture?
I'm always down for more Xeno content.
@@whereswarren3719 It’s Phenomhhh, but his channel is in Spanish, I sometimes see Imperfect Works in the comments, and Phenomhhh is critical about lot of things in 3.
it wasn't (I wrote this with the misinformation/speculation from english xenotubers that are preaching that this or that are CONFIRMED to be canon already, with their followers spreading the word) but it can apply aswell for the case of XC3 and the one you are reffering xD. I think what Future Redeemed did is risky, 'cause no matter what, when we get a definitive answer there'll be people upset saying they were baited, tricked, lied to or that it was a missing opportunity. They won't be able to make everyone happy, but they'll get over it someday and it will be funny to remember the speculative pre XC4 days.
It would be funny if the blue light was Origin, because that heavy and sturdy unbreakable orb falling into orbit with that speed would certainly wipe out a continent and its people. If I had to make the case for X with the alien invasion tho, the existence of the Ares Ouroboros and the Origin looking Ghost ship make it hard, it would be at least the very far future. However we know that data of Earth was stored in core crystals and in A partially. And Origin can reconstruct stuff with data. That along the fact that the Ghosts came to destroy "Earth" and the people from X are not the original humans but made by human looking civilization that appeared in the beginning of the universe from an other plane (and Mira was their homeplanet once)... I think its fair to suppose that XCX Earth is not the original but a recreation by the Origin like Ghost ship (and the humans made by samaar). And Mira would be the original one (like Aionios, its a world made of a fusion of different worlds). Considering that the "moons" in Mira are actually Venus and Mars pictures, and that Mira can come and go from this plane of existence plus all the XC1 references.
@@imperfectworks7064 I mean there is the speculation that the people that came from another dimension are actually the people from Klaus’s experiment that got misplaced in other dimensions, or it could be people from other worlds from Gears and Saga, we don’t know, but it’s fun to speculate.
Although I see the destruction of earth in x as a reverse of the recreation of the world in Xenoblade 1.
World was imploding in 1.
World was exploding in X.
Add to the fact, when that happens we see Green and Purple colors in X, could it be a reference to Logos and Pneuma. Or to Moebius and Ouroboros?
Nah, I personally think the green and purple being opposites will be an ongoing motif in Xenoblade going forward.
For real. There’s no way for Saga and X and Gears to fit together without something breaking. Being a Transformers fan, this type of direct references are natural to me. Not every Optimus Prime is the same Optimus Prime, and not every Coalition Government is the same Coalition Government.
Xenosaga & Xenoblade X not canon = "imperfect works". Get it!? Ok I'll leave now...
that's perfect, it works! (insert "say that again?" meme)
I still think that X could be canon if it takes place in the very, very far future, but I’d be fine if that’s wrong. I’m sure that whatever they do next will be very good anyway.
The way I see it is Saga and X aren't necessarily canon but they've established that Klaus's world had similarities to those games and the next game will likely be quite sci fi and mech heavy and reuse ideas and concepts from those games.
The problem with this argument is that they could reuse the concept of Vector by making a new idea that is a parallel to it. Make a new company called Vecton and have the logo be slightly different and a different color, avoid paying the licensing from Bandai Namco entirely and make it clear to fans that this is a spiritual succession of the Xenosaga and Xenoblade X story. Instead they show the Vector logo in full and treat it like a major reveal. I think it would be embarrassing for the writers to not assume how the majority of fans would interpret that scene given how it's presented.
You go too far this time. In 40 years when Xenoblade 9 comes out, you’re gonna feel really silly.
This won't stop Luxin and Enel from contuing to gaslight their fans with their bias 🗣🗣
Geniunely hate both lol i hope whatever the next game is ends up being hated by them. Not only are they chugga's leeches, they have fanbases that while smaller are equally as dumb (and while enel is a b!tch who cries everytime someone midly criticizes 2, luxin is a moron who thinks himself smart even though he's never been right about anything)
I found this interesting quote from a 2010 interview with Soraya Saga.
Interviewer: Personally speaking, what do you consider is the connection between Xenogears and Xenosaga?
Saga: I think all Xeno works are, so to speak, like rivers and lakes that once sprung from our mind, eventually became independent. They sure are kin, but not lineal.
Tbh this may be sacrilege to say in this community but I’m tired of the perfect works storyline. Let’s see some new themes from Takahashi beyond the same story structure, motifs, etc. I know it’s Monolith Softs baby but we’ve already explored it, let’s see something new. Hell, let’s see a new IP. And getting away from the super-large-scale kill gods narrative as well to more small-scale narratives.
There are a few reasons why I can see Xenosaga being made cannon in Xenolade. For a start KOS-MOS and Telos have already appeared in XC2 so it's not as if the Saga IP is beyond Monolithsoft in the same way Gears appears to be. The other reason which get people hyped is the fact that we have seen this retconning before in the case of XC1 being retconned to fit with XC2. When they did XC1DE they purposely changed Alvins key necklace to an Agis core crystal to fit with XC2 lore. Thus, if the next project IS a Xenosaga remake I could see them doing the same to those games and altering the lore to fit with the Xenoblade games. Again this is all dependent on if that's the route Monolithsoft choose to go. Again they could be like you said and moving into new uncharted waters with something completely different.
I don’t necessarily think comparing xenogears to xenosaga references is a strong enough argument given they actually have no direct mention, unlike xenosaga which they even got the copyright, to use direct references from it. Its a bit over presumptuous to make a confident guess rn when so much is flexible, and basically multiverse like theories are on the table. There are many ways they can go about it not mentioning how much 2 retconned from 1.
I don't know why everyone assumes canon means that everything takes place on 1 unchangable timeline. You can trace an evolution of biology, technology, and civilization across the different series.
Xenogears is less advanced than Xenosaga but takes place much later.
I pose that Xenogears happened earlier in the cycle of cosmic evolution, the remnants of which were used by the next universe to accelerate the process.
This would mean the universe at the end of FR was not X, nor Saga, nor Gears. It was after they all intersected, which I believe to be X. Cross is a metanarrative representation of U-DO which pulls information from different universes and uses the body of Cross as a means to navigate. This is why Cross has no established character: It's a machine unknowingly being controlled by U-DO. It is also why Cross is the only person able to absorb other classes.
U-DO then escapes the mechanical body by first becoming the Fog King, then Zed. It appears Zed and the City had a truce, and if that gave Shulk and Rex access to the U-DO abilities shown in X... we get Oroboros. The classes are directly a plotpoint in 3 and a sidequest has you build the Iris Network, which happens to be not dissimilar to the UMN and operates as the in-game UI, so bringing up gameplay elements in the ludonarrative is justified, in my opinion.
I agree that this was not the original intent. However, they hadn't decided whether to canonize anything until late development of 2, and they went ahead and canonized it. With it being a consideration from the first Blade title onward, I doubt they wouldn't write in a failsafe for if the decision was to move forward. And XC2 became canon.
The point is that the canon is often contradictory but they are still canon. They just don't follow the story of only one universe in a rigid time A to time B structure. XC3 or FR was probably when they made the final decision. Xenoblde 1 was probably written with some recognition that it might happen someday.
No one ever does the Baten Kaitos connections
That truly was a disaster, day of crisis
The next Xenoblade game will unify the timelines, guarantee!
I usually like your content, but acting like anything now is certainty and not mere hypothesis is foolish. There is as much possibility that they are than that they are not, and trying to use previous lore to "prove" anything, when there is a high chance that we, unlike the developers themselves, don't know yet the full picture of what they are building, is silly. Disliked.
If the developers didn’t know about the Fiora is the sword of the end connected, they are probably just as lost as we are.
@@shulkash8799 The main writer knew, that is what matters the most.
I do say that "nothing is confirmed yet", "even IF they are not canon, they are outlines" and that "even I am biased towards my neutral route". But yeah some wording like THE VERY FIRST WORDS I SAID "they are NOT canon" and "they were just that, references" do sound too confident/prideful/full of myself so I apologize, it's just that there are many videos on the opposite espectrum claiming everything is confirmed to be canon, as you say "There is as much possibility that they are than that they are not". I DO however stand for my argument that Dimitri and EarthLifeColonizationProgram cannot be the very same due to different dates and origins. Dimitri made more tha 4400 years after Earth was sealed and ECP in XC2 and 3 existed before finding the conduit while in X it was made after learning about the ghost invasion (and then they created a zohar like machine). Still I appreciate the feedback
@@shulkash8799 I'd blame C O V I D for that and more, as they said they had to work from home for quite a while, they had issues developing, communicating for lore and art. Even the localization team had issues with communication and translation (quite noticeable) and even the VA's didn't meet. Good thing tho, in the latest Monolith recruitment Takahashi wanted to improve the workspace, to have various insights, and the ability to connect those laterally and interconnected. So next game should drastically improve in that department, lore and coherence
@@imperfectworks7064 Honestly I think it’s more Takahashi’s way of writing than Covid. I mean it has been a problem since the xenogears and saga days.
The man excludes a much of lore relevant information from the game itself, because of his own over ambitious self and the limited budget, and puts in arts books to explain the convoluted things he left unexplained in the game itself, this is just bandage for his poor planning and foresight.
It’s problem that will continue in Xenoblade, because it just quirk of Takahashi’s creative process.
So we're just going to ignore the Concept Art for Origin having literal Saga Zohar Emulators, Verbatim. The entire layout and visual design of the Inside being practically Identical to the Omega System. What is clearly U-DO (Or perhaps a Blade Facsimile for it) Clearly in the image.
Not to mention. KOS-MOS Refrain having "Designed by Shion Uzuki and Allen Ridgeley in her textures? If it were merely references. Why would Takahashi go so far as to specifically license KOS-MOS and Yuriev along with Vector's logo... plus the Life Recycling Act from Bandai Namco just for it to be a fun reference with no actual significance? Drone designs in Origin matching Gnosis found in the Encephalon in Episode II very closely. It feels like an awful lot to Mirror into another series consistency if it is really all but a reference.
Elma exists as a stand-in for KOS-MOS. Blade 1 and 2 have many connections and their worlds were connected. Is it not reasonable to think that the intention is to connect Xenosaga and Gears in some way? Obviously legal hurdles exist. But the intention has been there from the start! Timelines are also not a perfect way to explain away these commonalities. Because both Mira and Aionios were suspended in space-time in some manner we don't yet know of!
It also should be noted that the Ending sequence for Future Redeemed matches up perfectly with Episode III! Even down to some of the words spoken! Of course, Like you said. Nothing is confirmed, But it's not like these discussions hurt the perception of the story in anyway. If anything I feel like it enhances it. Tie all of these disparate narratives together across a single thread!
That's also without getting into the implications of each Universe having their own flavor of Deus!
Great video with some good points! Even if I disagree!
The issue is that Origin's interior also is identical to Deus Merkavah. And the Zohar art we saw then evolved to be Xenogears like Memory monoliths instead, and from that it evolved into Core crystal/Omega fetter cubes. And in that zohar concept art, the thing in the back is the rift (you can see it like this during alpha's 2nd form with a free camera) and many said it looked like gears' zohar eye before (you are right tho, alpha is kinda like Udo wanting to destroy the lower domain as a failsafe and Wave existence from gears when it wanted to depart to its dimension destroying Fei's world in the process) Kosmos is an interesting case tho, less need for credit due to some weird co ownership with the artist, unlike Yuriev and Vector. It was saviorite human rights bill tho, not the same as recycling act? (unless its localization) drone designs also look like XCX ghosts and some Xenogears wels and angels. Yeah Mira and Aionios are weird space time wise, but that doesnt have anything to do with Dimitri existing more than 4400 years before his actual creation. The ending sequence of episode 3 also matches the beginning of XCX. And as shown in the video, every xeno has had a blue light at the end. Xenogears as a blue comet, Kosmos drifting as a comet, Blue light surrounding the orbital ring, the white whale thrusters, the Radamanthus escape thrusters, etc. For me, its hard to picture Wilhem, Z testaments, moebius, Zanza, Trinity, Chaos as existing together as they would be too redundant. Its hard to imagine Jesus Christ as a Nintendo character xD (they tend to avoid religious symbolism, no jesus for smash) Ihowever, if they were to make it canon, they'll obviously would have to make tons of retcons (too many, dates and characters existing in earth, zohar's functions, etc). But the trinity processor is a biocomputer (siren model lore) it has organic components inside... they could make it be more anima vessels/parts of chaos (and would explain why Alvis looks like him) just an idea. The next Xenosaga was heavily implied to be a reimagining of gears tho.
I prefer to keep an open mind about these things, of course blind hype is not the way to go about it, like you said it just leads to disappointment when things don't turn out as you expect! I believe that Elma was always a contingency for if legal boundaries arose in using KOS-MOS.
It's funny in a Meta sense because Nephilim in Episode I shows to us how Saga was intended to end. With KOS-MOS fighting U-DO in the far future, But like she says, a small ripple can change everything. Which... essentially happened with the series itself. Now we're kind of in that same spot.
What was used to represent that? An Open Door, We're standing at the door in view of an uncertain future. So basically I think it's literal. The door is wide open for all manner of ideas to come to fruition but we won't actually know what it is until we actually get it!
The Jesus comment is also Interesting because in early concepts. Chaos WAS basically Jesus. Also The redundancies are present even in Saga! Dr Masuda first activates the Zohar. (Which was essentially recapped in the Siren Model Kit blurb) Then we get the Major Time skip. But that also skips when Grimoire Verum used his daughter as a Vessel to activate it himself!
Things played out differently in Blade which let to a different outcome. Think of it like the branches of a tree! Blade's Timeline is possibly just another cycle of the Eternal Recurrence. If you narrow yourself to specifically events that happen within Saga itself you get a lot of inconsistencies. But the universe is flexible!
Also interesting to note. (Obviously not canon to the main series as we know at least) But Project X Zone has crossovers with Blade and Saga where T-elos speculates if the Mechonis Fallen Arm is part of Lost Jerusalem.
Sorry for the wall of text! (;^ω^) (Jesus for Smash!)
@@Mii-Min walls of text are what we are here for
wack
I hate doing this but this whole video is just you rambling and you haven't disproven anything.
It's very clear that your a XenoBlade purest and you don't like or want Xenosaga or XenoBlade X to be apart of this series so your trying to spread misinformation.
I can dismantle this whole video by saying one thing and that's only Tetsuya Takahashi and Monolith Soft get to decide what is and isn't canon with their official Xeno series not the Xenoblade fanbase.
So as it stands the entire Xenosaga trilogy and XenoBlade X are indeed canon with XenoBlade and nothing is going to change that.
I like Saga and X but their lore is just not compatible. in Saga Dmitri didn't exist on Earth, The experiment was done by Verum and Wilhem shrinked Earth, which came back thanks to Abel's ark, in Blade the experiment was by Klaus and it split Earth instead, coming back together thanks to Origin.
In X the coalition goverment was created after ELma arrived to warn about Earth and then they made the arks and DM engine, in Blade, the coalition goverment existed even years before finding the conduit.
They are still important stories for monolith and blueprints for the next games. As you said Takahashi and Monolith Soft get to decide what is and isn't canon with their official Xeno series not the Xenoblade fanbase. They haven't confirmed Gears Saga nor X to be canon either. None of us know yet.
Does patches and the moonlight sword make Demon souls, dark souls, Bloodborne and Elden Ring all canon/same universe?
As Takahashi said about Gears fans thinking Saga was going to be part of Gears canon "self parodies/cameos" Xeno has always being very self referencing.
Forcing Saga or X to be canon would need more than simple retcons, why dismantle those crafted stories to fit another?
Only Xenoblade 4 will prove which team is right or wrong. Or maybe we are all wrong. But saying I WANT to spread misinformation comes from your Bias, from my point of view Saga fans are spreading misinformation saying its confirmed, that's why I made this video.
@@imperfectworks7064 Bro use some spaces between paragraphs it helps so I'm only going to skim this.
I saw you brought up the Souls series so I'll at least answer that. Does the Moonlight Greatsword connect the Souls series together? Answer No, reason being it's not a Souls weapon as it originated from a game called King's Field and it was called the Moonlight Sword in that game.
This weapon has appeared in all of FromSofts games expect Sekiro.
Next you'll want to know are all the Souls games connected to each other? Answer No, only Dark Souls 1-3 are connected the other games take place in their own worlds with their own stories and lore as that is how FromSoft has set them up hence why they keep changing the name.
I know you'll ask so I'll cover it, what about Monolith Soft's Xeno games and the name changes? Answer to avoid copyright infringement as the name change was forced. Keep in mind this only applies to Xenosaga as Namco got the rights to the IP because they paid for the development of ALL of the Xenosaga games that Monolith Soft ever made.
So when Nintendo bought Monolith out in 2007 they could no longer use the name Xenosaga due to Bandai Namco owning the rights to the IP. That's why they changed name to Xenoblade but it was never their plan to have these games be separate from each other. That's why in Xenoblade 2 and onward they started adding all the Xenosaga connections, characters and retcons so they could officially connect these IP's back together in Future Redeemed.
For Xenoblade X there's more of an argument to be made here that it's it's own story and has it's own lore. As it's clearly not connected to either Saga or Blade as only Elma has appeared in Xenoblade 2 and that was through DLC.
Other then that there are no other Xenoblade X connections or characters that appear in the Xenoblade story that I'm aware of.
I still think Luxin makes great argument that they're Canon.
@@wanaan Luxin doesn’t believe Xenoblade X is canon. He believes Xenosaga is.
the credits explicitly saying xenosaga means its happening. unsure on x
The credits never say Xenosaga. Just special thanks to Bandai Namco.
Until we get a confirmation of such, I wouldn't be so sure.
Xenosaga is in the intellectual properties of Xenoblade 3: Future Redeemed
They ARE canon. There is NO non-canon, bigot. For any franchise. If you can experience it, its canon