Jay reviews his latest speakers and goes off !!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Bravo on the in depth look at positives and negatives from your experience!!!
Your segment on magic, is the kiss of death for me, if I was to ever consider magico speakers......
Love the real-world issues you raise,: re: 'Speakers are on loading dock. Get them picked up.'' Plus: Kids will poke tweeters... could you not throw in set of grills for $85K!
If you allow grandchildren anywhere near your stereo system, you get what you deserve. If they are your grandkids, make sure your kids know they will be paying to repair your speakers. If they won't, take them to court, get a judgement.
Just never allow children anywhere near your speakers. Period.
Real world??? US $140,000
Time to get a pair of Legacy Aeris for the 25K and under test, then Legacy Valor in the Reference category 😃
Agreed
I've felt for a long time that Legacy has a negative affordability bias against them ... ie., lack of due respect ... they punch way above their price point.
Bill Duddleston, yes, his Kung Fu is good indeed.
Thank you Jay that was great ! Very detailed and and lots of information .
Allways depends on combinations and room. When things are right Wilson anytime for me...
In my opinion - this is a GREAT video - it's an amazing comparison review between some of the greatest "heavy hitters" in our hobby - the insights you spoke about, the unabashed criticisms, the pro and con approach, all of it is so welcomed - and rant away Jay, I really felt you were being completely honest which is all any of us could ask for, certainly fine by me - - - of a surprise to me, you're description and satisfaction for the 20.7's, I mentioned before that I don't take you for a "maggie guy" and that doesn't mean that you are so yeah, I do get that you're referencing your comment about it in it's particular price category, bang for the buck, as it were but I also think that your assessment of them is "nuts on" - - I don't mean to say it over and over, but I sooo appreciate what you're doing, thank you Jay.
Carpet 😂
No, YOU should not be crating/shipping your Magicos, that's your DEALER'S job.
Same for picking them up from the shipping dock; your DEALER arranges return freight.
You are treating them like they are an Internet direct company; in fact most companies won't even talk to you as a user, that's your DEALER's responsibility.
Your opinion Jay has weight because of your first-hand experience with high-quality gears.
Magnepans for me, you end it there,
Focal speakers inverted tweeter doesn't ring or fatigue the ears like the B&W speakers.
Thanks for your inside View. Sometimes a brand is out when you don't get a great service.
Wilsons use the foam to keep diffraction down. You either have no baffle B&W design, or a baffle and any baffle creates issues. So they try to get around it with the foam. I am not saying it's good or bad but seems horrid if it deteriorates. Yes they look ugly too but honestly the Sabrina isn't as bad looking. It still stands out as ugly compared to the B&W but they sound better. The tune tot is the cutest speaker they make but who wants to spend 10k on a bookshelf?
Wow. Knowing that about Magico is a real turn off. I really enjoyed the sound of the A3 though.
this is great!!!!!!!!!! I have Wilson WP6. I thought they were broken until I moved them into the right spot in the room. Literally a few millimeters made a world of difference. Agree with the shouty mids. You are right on the money with this review.
The purpose of the absorber is to control DIFFRACTIONS - not reflections. First used by AR speakers in the late '70s and early '80s. For the record - I have NEVER HEARD A MAGOO (Magnepan) IMAGE
LOVE my DAW's, Spectral and MIT = MUSIC AT IT'S BEST
Magico service sucks
As an audio design company, it's rough to hear you rip key companies new a**holes. HOWEVER all sound truth and honest criticism from your highly refined viewpoint. You got balls Jay and hats off to you! We hate homogenized reviewing and appreciate this true high end freak's honesty.
I'm trying to put it bluntly. I'm sick of hearing the same stupid reviews over and over again
I was looking at Mágico and no Grilles plus exposed dangerous Beryllium tweeters if disturbed- with a little one. NOPE! Hello Focal Kanta No2s in the Family Room and Sopra No3's in listening room, both with grilles and no removable tweeter grille.
Take 2 by a slight difference..
2 seems a bit more pure a bit more articulate a bit more commanding
1 is a glass of slightly cloudy water 2 is a glass of clear mountain water...hard to put into words...
Magnepan is Terrific, and the cheapiest..
Thanks Jay! Verify informative information, I appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving
Unless you have a hearing test and have almost perfect hearing with no damage this money aint worth even thinking about but i would go Magico of legacy Audio everyday all day .
lol grandchildren forget that nonsence . And my own experience with blowing tweeters is it only happens if you do not have enough power to support that speaker .
All new Monitor Audio Concept-50 Speakers coming on the market very soon 😇
interesting take - good job! I Love my Wilson DAWs. PERIOD
What do you think about the Wilson Sabrinas for medium room? I heard them once and they sounded neutral to me.
Great video Jay. Love your insight!!!
Haha in have Wilson audio watt puppy's and I hate the damned £1 looking foams. Why do they do it!? They look like shit!
Great rant on magico repair shipping issues
I've never heard a Wilson that sounded like music. It's an overpriced audiophile product
Jay, thanks for your honesty. It would be great if you can review Vivid Audio, Kharma and Stenheim speakers in the future
Jay, I know I'm late to the party but I have been thinking of buying the Magico M3 but after listening to your review, I will pass. Thank you.
High Pile felt.
This was a informative review. If one is spending that much dough, you want to get your money’s worth! Truly in the end, it is what you like that will make you stay and listen for hours.
I love your rant about Magico not helping to ship/return their products. You are spot on that if Mercedes can have customer service like they do for a $35k car, then you should get white glove service BOTH WAYS for you $90k speakers...
These are the speakers compared in this very worhtwhile review with some of the comments.
Magneplanar 20.7
Best speaker under 25.000, not enjoyable at low levels - gets dull at low volume, sitting in the sweet spot is essential to experience the magic of this speaker, requires large room (>50 m2)
Wilson Audio Alexa 2
Works well at low volume, is forgiving with poor source, very room dependent, king of slam
Magico M3
Huge soundstage, best disappearing act, easy to place in the room - very minimal room interaction,
Cons: no grills, service is suboptimal, speaker is not smooth with poor music, it will give you facts like a documentary,
(personally, I have the opposite experience poor recordings from Within Temptation, Judas Priest etc. sound wonderful through these speakers!)
Focal Stella Evo Utopia
Incredibable smoothness, better imaging than Magico M3 and Alex 2
All the resolution you can wish for, has finetuning abilities,
Cons: huge footprint, everything sounds great
Obviously Mágico has gone from writing to believing it’s own press. They should pull their heads out of their collective asses.There’s companies out there that appreciate your business, with top notch customer service. And at this rarefied level, word of mouth between well-heeled audiophiles carries a lot of weight.
Jay took the gloves off, and slapped WA and Magico. Love it. I've had limited listening exposure to the Sasha DAWs, The Stella, and the M3, but not in my home. As such, I highly value Jay's assessments. My own evaluation on personal limited experience was WA Alexias my favorite, Focal's Stella Utopia evo close behind, Sasha DAWs third place, Magico M3 technically impressive ,but not captivating in last place. I can't comment on Maggies 20.7 as I've never heard them in person, tough I' ve listened to smaller size Maggies.
I bow to Jay's evaluation as he had extended exposure in his own dedicated room with quite good acoustics.
Thanks Jay.
very informative jay thank you.....
I want the 20.7 so badly. I’m upset at Magnepan for “ruining” my listening habit. I can no longer listen to conventional speakers because they sound “boxy” and/or “small”. I’m on my 3rd pair and slowly climbing up the Magnepan line.
I can relate to not being able to live with conventional sealed/ported box speakers (though at a lower price point). Maggie’s are great, but I agree about the sweet spot. If you’re going to spend fir 20.7 you might check out PBN audio. Customs speakers out of California. About same price as 20.7 if you buy direct.
@@Scottlp2 I just checked their website. I’ve never heard of them and they look well established with a large selection of speakers, multiple amazing turntables, and amplifiers. I lived in Cali for some time and never heard of PBN. 🤷🏻♂️ What’s up?
@@epi2045 one of a few of high end/low visibility brands. I only ran across on audiogon. Coupla other thoughts:
Dynamic speakers that “don’t sound like boxes”: 1. Omnis eg Ohm or $25k space pods, few other omnis 2. Open baffles e. g. spatial audio, pure audio project,Tri-Art Audio, 3. “Box speakers” with wide dispersion eg PBN. There are others with wide dispersion eg my $1300 LSAs, perhaps Dali and Revel (since wide dispersion).
PBN gets great mentions on audiogon and rave review on net, Pure audio project is modular with wide price range and I’m told tonal balance similar to Maggie’s (not as attractive though).
@@Scottlp2 I went to a website called “the sound station” locates in Oklahoma. They are slashing price’s on many PBN gear (30-70% off). I’m very tempted.
@champer slimmerthannone I have used several amps over a series of several Magnepans. The best amplifier however is my Mark Levinson No. 331 which can be found used for $1-2K depending on the condition. New $4-5K but are now discontinued. It’s only 100wpc but is factory rated down to 2ohms at 400wpc.
Magnepan says their speakers are 4 ohms but I’m sure they spend quite a bit of time in the 2 ohm range. I’ve had newer and more expensive amplifiers with even more “watts” but nothing drives my Magnepan’s better than my Mark Levinson’s which weighs 94lbs.
Jay how about ML unless I missed it I don’t remember you talking about them , Ml has followed advantages over Maggie based on your review:
1. Requires much less power to play
2 Requires less space
3 . Most likely can play better in the lower registers
4 . I enjoy listening to ML with low volume, actually this is first speaker that made low volume acceptable to me ,
5 built in anthem room correction is very cool feature that none of these speakers have
They will always have a place in my heart. Logans are great
Pls review some of the BAT products!
I recognize many features of my Magnepan LRS speakers, good story..
Why not test the Focal Evo 3 Utopias. They ate suppose to have everything of the Focal Stellias and more
Jay quite agree with you regarding Magico simply shocking having to send speaker back just to replace tweeter is bonkers and your analogy with Marcedes is spot on both high value items should have better customer service then that ,would definitely put me off buying Magico even if i could afford too.Dont get me started on the lack of grilles either. nice review. cheers
Great reviews. Thanks for being straight up and honest.
Jay you seriously have the most thought provoking channel in highend audio. Very informative. Question for you my local dealer is selling a pair of pre-certified mint Alexia’s with a 3 year warranty for 23k. Should grab them or a brand new pair of 20.7’s?
Jay; nice review with very insightful comments & evaluations. After fifty years of the high end (including Audio Note, Krell, Classe, Apogee Grands, Magico M5s, etc), we've ended up with custom ordered silver internals 5 wpc PX25 Art Audio and Avantgarde Duo Grossos. Beautiful; amazing...
DIY's are better
This Magico attitude with repairs etc ALONE would let me refrain from getting one of their speakers. But I‘m a Wilson fan anyway…so no problem for me 😇
I think a lot of folk forget that most high end audio companies are in the market to maximize profit on a few 'gullible' folk. They believe that their customers are 'gullible', and they have this attitude...'sheep are there to be 'fleeced''. Now this attitude is fairly prevalent in high end audio, and it is due to a lot of folks who are simply ignorant of this attitude, or dont care either way! So long as customers do NOT vote with their wallets, and do so consistently, these bad apples are going to continue with this business practice...
@@daveyf3144 …it all comes down to what is important to you. If you’re very much into audio (and have the possibilities) you know that you simply cannot reach the potential sound quality of a Wilson (some say Magico) with a speaker for - let’s say 4 to 5 thousand bucks.
That’s the truth …if one likes it or not! And to call those people „sheep“ tells me that you probably have never heard such a system in person and most likely have been surrounded yourself (in forums etc) with likeminded people…where one constantly „confirms“ the others uneducated opinions. But I‘m tired of these discussions… either keep your opinion or open your mind and ears …and you will most likely discover a whole new (audio) world and level of playback music. Have a nice X-mas
@@bikemike1118 Re-read my post above. I did not say people are sheep ready to be fleeced, I stated that is what many high end audio companies and manufacturer's believe. If you read posts too quickly you will likely come here with comments like you did.
Thank you for your honesty. I've found your channel just a few days ago and really enjoy your views and honesty on high end audio.
Thanks. Please share my channel
Dude, you are the best!!
I wish I had that problem.. thinking my Wilson’s are hideous with the grills off.
Thank you Jay, incredible review, great work ! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
jay, have you looked into any other open baffle speakers outside of the magnepans and martin logans ? such as spatial audio or otherwise ?
No
Technically Maggies and MLs aren't open baffle speakers as they have no baffle. They are known as panel speakers.
@@jaysaudiolab Your video was fun and engaging! You keep it real the way I like to hear it from a reviewer. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on open baffles designs such as Spatial Audio X series and Pure Audio Project Quintet 15’s. I have a pair of Spatial Audio X5’s and they smoke! Not a lot of deep bass, but the instruments sound very real! They need about 200+ hours of break in before you start to judge them.
@@DBTAudio i am not planning on going open baffles anytime soon...
@@jaysaudiolab Cool... I’ll keep my eye open for future videos on the new Alexx! Thanks
I agree Jay that Magico customer service is BS! Would not buy for that reason after your critique! Focal Stella would be my speaker if I had the space and $$$ 😢. Musicality is the most important ❤ !
Magico isn't setup to deal directly with customers, your DEALER is supposed to provide customer service and take care of picking up the speakers and returning them to your home.
Very very impressive loudspeakers, even by just standing next to them.
I witnessed another pair ( set of 3 (!) ) for a Chinese customer at Kharma factory.
… with 3 pcs of matching Subs…🧐
The fit & finish is abs off the scale
In their listening room, with just a cup of coffee, and those loudspeakers delivering music…. 😇
They deliver Sooo effortlessly, they just fill the room with a performance, not only with sound.
Almost scary…
Then I bought the DB7 signature.
( at 5% of the price of the big boys… Still a lot of money for a working man…
And still a magnificent loudspeaker, albeit a little less magnificent 😉
best review in a long time! really enjoyed it!
What your reference subwoofer(s)?
Wait you are not done without trying some top the line JBL or Tannoy with alnico compressor loaded speakers. New or vintage and you might like them....
One day !
Jay I would love to hear your thoughts on goldenear Triton reference and tekton design Ulfberdts. Much cheaper price points and newer players to the market. It would good to see how they compare to these higher priced models
You might get your wish real soon 🙂!!!
@@jaysaudiolab can't wait!!
you should try the Audiovector R11 88,000$ i hown the R3 ARRETTE and woww so i can imagine the 88000 speaker
Maybe R8 is a better match for Jays room.
Would you be trying any Vivid Audio speakers?
Well done. Enjoyed this. Cheers!
Watch out that's teakwood and listen don't touch!😁
Excellent I like your comment. Thank you
The Emporer’s New Clothes!
For forty years I’ve devoured magazine reviews, visited shows, dealers and waded through the internet.
The whole industry, including journalists, seems invested in never speaking their truth.
I’ve listened to multi-hundred thousand dollar systems that sound flat as a pancake. And no-one utters a word.
Finally - balanced, real-world feedback…. with an opinion.
Finally.
Excellent comments, I fully agree with you.
My favorite are Focal Utopia although my dream are the MBL 101Xtreme omnidirectional loudspeakers and electronics, they play in a different league to the rest but it’s a million dollar setup.
Never heard the 101, just like Wilson’s top two (WAMM Master Chronosonic and XVX), those three are my unicorns; my favorites are the Bayz Audio Counterpoint 2.0 and the Sonus Faber Aida 2.
Among the “affordable” ones, Scala Utopia Evo.
@@magicmulder
Excellent loudspeakers too 👌🎼🎼🎼
Imagine having Magicos and living OUTSIDE of US. That quickly escalates the problem! Magnepan all the way...
Wilson speakers might be great sounding speakers, but their design is so horrible that even having the money I wouldn't buy them. That's my opinion as an industrial designer.
Interesting opinion
Jay.
I just bought gryphon Coliseum amp because of you great reviews.
But, where are the Gryphon speakers in your Lab! You know you were going there.
What do you think of legacy
Have you ever listened to MBL speakers? Not the 250,000 pair but the 70k pair next level down. Thoughts on those?
I have but i think that speaker takes time getting used to. It's like you driving a sports car all your life and now you have a family so you need to drive a SUV...takes time getting used to driving a truck
@@jaysaudiolab Thanks. I have an 11 by 12 foot room now. I have the monitor audio platinum MK 2's. I have blue node streamer and prima luna tube dac. Speakers sound great technically but like the color more of ribbons or silk dome tweeters versus AMT . I like hearing more the emotion of the singer than the technicality. Speakers have 4- 8 inch bass drivers each. What I do not like about the speakers is no room correction options. I want to be able to dial back the bass some. Was thinking MBL might be a good fit. I bought my stuff through HIFI buys in Atlanta. Like you I do not care for aluminum tweeters. Very fatiguing, tinny sounding even high end ones, and hard to feel the music. You keep mentioning bluenode as a bad streamer. I thought the streamer just pushes through the music but the separate DAC makes the sound quality happen?
Every MBL I've heard has a great soundstage but has been ridiculously, PAINFULLY bright.
One thing that is continuously overlooked by virtually all stereo equipment reviews is the EARS/BRAIN the music is being processed through. Have you had your ears checked recently for frequency sensitivity? My ears have a "frequency response" that is wavy with a "that's all she wrote" at just over 13.5 kHz. Beyond that sound fades into my natural background "life ring" that's there all the time. Down low I'm "hearing" nothing at 22 Hz or below but I "feel" it down past 20 Hz. Between is anything but flat. Maybe that, along with our widely varying tastes in music, is why so many different speakers become peoples' favorites. Viva la différence!!
Hi Jay. What a great review and a wealth of knowledge. I like the Maggie's of the four. Im just wondering if you will do a review of my favorite speaker the Vandersteen model 7 extreme at 84000$ I have been told they are absolutely like listening to live music which this hobby is all about. Let me know. Thx
Great review... Hope your waiting for some Tektons
I'm sorry man but why are you ranting about 7000 dollars tweeter plus shipping and whatever, and about rich people when the fact that you can afford pass labs, boulder name every expensive component in the planet and you have it. Just don't get it sorry.
Beholding to no one - speaking from experience - telling truth - Integrity! Thanks Jay!
Hi End yes but a many parts come from China. Like the carpet. Much of the manufacturing has been move to China…no one in the USA is making carpets.
Cables 🤣🤣🤣🤣snake oil
Great work 👍 all that gear.....and your audio is clipping.....just had to do it......
Have you ever heard the Kef Reference Model 4.2 played? I've had them for 15 years now and tried many others, but these speakers sound so good, I'll never get rid of them. If you have heavy amplification for them, then they sound really phenomenal. Thank you for your high-end videos and for the explanation. Top... Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end.
👍😉😘👌✌
Appreciate your insight into these speakers-very very helpful!!!! I heard the 40th anniversary Focal's with M400's, Rossini, & D'Agostino preamp & that was the best
musical experience with equipment that I have ever heard! I think the cables were Nordost too (which I don't usually care for) but I could listen to that for hours. I have
seen some videos on the Alsyvox speakers with the external crossovers & that sound seems to be the most real sounding speakers. Have you heard them before?
I have the Alexia's now & it may be awhile before I can spend more but your videos are Very helpful!!!
Never heard those speakers. Thank you for the comment
man...i wish you could dial the bombast down a bit. And how many times do you need to make the same point? credit your listeners with some intelligence
Your reviews are perfectly balanced between positives and negatives. The Absolute Sound and Stereophile would never go there.
Great video! I have full acoustic treatment in my room,I have mcintosh mc302, my room is 13.ft x 17ft, would a pair of maxx 2 work in my room?
The Focals resemble elephant front legs. The Wilsons resemble dumpsters .The Magicos resemble the creatue in the movie Alien.Don't the Magicos have a removable rear dress panel which allows access to the inside of the cabinet?
Thank you for your brutal honesty! So Looking forward to what you bring in next.
My pleasure Shannon
Love this video!
Thanks !
Thank you Jay
Thanks for such a fantastic review of those 4 speakers, Jay. I really appreciate the detail and honesty you went into in your descriptions of them. One thing that really kinda stuck out to me was Magico’s cost of a single f’n tweeter (not including labor) and return policy, but it’s not like I’m gonna be buying a pair anytime soon, but still... Christ, even my Volvo dealer gave me a loaner car for a couple days. Thanks again, Jay.
If you like Maggies, but need something more... then Audiovector speakers with Arrete tweeter might be your best bet. Audiovector and Gryphon uses eachothers gear when developing new products.
No bass, no Magnepan. Bass is the foundation of music. Everyone has there own priorities.
No heavily distorted around 60 Hz rubbish?
Subwoofer will really work in magnepans favor
@@braedench While I have not heard Magnepan's latest offerings, in the past, I could always tell when Magnepans had a sub. It never integrated with the speakers.
@@vinylrules4838 at my local dealer I recently heard the magnepan 3.7i with a pair of rel t5i. Integrated beautifully at least to my ears. And I read a lot of guys are pairing them with the GR Research servo controlled open baffle subwoofers and that seems to be a favorite
@@braedench I understand the 3.7 is a huge upgrade over the old Magnepans. Unfortunately there are no dealers in my town to hear them. The last brick and mortar audio store in our town went bankrupt several years back. They did not carry Magnepans.
Hi jay,
Can I ask which ones would you pick?Wilson audio Sasha 2 or focal sopra 3 thank you
Is Sir saying that he doesn't have a personal assistant which takes care of all is practical and shipping needs? Arrange shipping yourself? Such barbarity.
I'm living the dream through you. I see these speakers in magazines and wonder which one I'd get if I had the resources. Thanks for taking the time to put this together, I enjoyed it.
Audiophiles should have an opinion and it's great when people express it for a change plainly! But we hear things differently and have different tastes, preferences and priority. In my case its a slight coloration on the absolute sound and favoring emotional impact over precision. Cheers and keep the reviews coming....Regardless in terms of that wow moments what do you think about MBL extreme, it was eye opening and as a home theater overkill set up can't imagine anything better for now.....
Awesome review! Love the extraordinarily honest cons! 🙂 Btw i love my well aged "3a Audio Design Midi Master" monitors (no crossovers), i really do. 💝
I appreciate your Honest opinion. As much as these speakers cost it could pay to listen here. Thanks
Great video about heavy hitters speakers but I was disappointed not to see ATC speakers. Ok they have monitor studio background but they have a cult following not only with Audiophiles but with famous artists as well. Their presentation maybe considered honest but they compel the listener to rediscover his or hers entire music collection. Their talent is simply to reflect the recording, and the rest of the components in the system and being utterly musical at the same time.