There’s a rich guy who literally has so much money he illegally parks anywhere in the city. Whenever he gets a ticket he treats it like a parking fee instead of a fine. He parks anywhere he wants a pays a “fee”
Here (Brazil), if you get more than 20 points on your driver's license, you cannot drive for a year. Minor is 3 points, medium is 4, bad is 5 and worst is 7. So you cannot get 3 worst tickets within a year. Some crimes(drunk-driving) might make you lose your license regardless of points and also you might go to jail. This system not always work, but is better than having a fee-only system.
Henrique Brisola Parking is a considered a non-moving violation in America. Non-moving violations don’t not affect your points on your driver’s license.
Really? Then why stop at money? Surely, if a crime is worth 100 days in prison, then the rich, who have much much more leisure time available, should be forced to spend TEN TIMES that amount of time in jail. OR, BETTER YET, WHY NOT LET THE RICH PAY THEIR WAY OUT OF SPENDING ANY TIME IN JAIL??? Their additional fine would be better spent keeping lower-income scum in jail, where they could not re-offend, as you know they will.
@@JohnVKaravitis everybody has the same amount of time available to them, but not everybody has the same amount of money available to them. Your logic is flawed.
Ask yourself this - what is the actual crime, what is the actual threat to society here - the speeding, which poses an equal risk to life and limb from and for rich and poor, or is being rich the actual thing you are trying to punish? Both the rich man and the poor man transgressed equally, the penalty should be equal.
7:13 I think the law professor was on a different wavelength Lower fines would not necessarily lead to an increase in speeding/crime in poorer areas, because to poorer people, these fines are as big a financial burden on them as the rich Worse, if you impose a high fine in poorer areas, then default may mean jail time. And if you subscribe to the notion that employers are prejudiced against ex convicts, this will just perpetuate a life of crime
I agree and also want to bring up the fact that Finland has had these kinds of fines for so long that you can't just dismiss the potential causal relationship between the fines and how many people they have in prison. And well... maybe the populace thinking that the government is a bunch of liars and cheats isn't the best thing, so perhaps the government shouldn't be made up of liars and cheats?
Yup. That professor's take on it was a jarring incongruity in the video. Really doesn't make sense, since the day fine model is explicitly meant to deal with income inequality.
except now those fines are probably higher relative to the median income in that area. Higher relative fines do make you think twice about things like speeding.
Exactly! Higher fines lead to the poor people not paying and eventually going to jail, and the state doesn't get the money. They said exactly that earlier in the video...
Makes perfect sense. Literally affects everyone the same way and makes it fair. Actual deterrent for those that would normally just rack up speeding tickets and pay their way out of a few hundred bucks.
It makes sense and is more fair, except for those on the very lower levels. People in poverty budget every single cent and using half their income means missing rent or not eating for weeks, but 50% of a rich person’s salary doesn’t cut into actual daily expenses at all. There needs to be a lower limit where it drops, based on cost of living.
@@Skilliard It's the same in Finland, you could quite easily loose your license AND pay a hefty fine for very reckless driving, or for getting caught speeding multiple times.
Don't see how it makes sense. So of you are sent to jail the time you spend there should be based on how much free time you usually have? Here in Portugal if you're a repeat offender you lose your license. It affects rich and poor equally without actually being unequal in absolute terms
The impact doesn't scale. Take 10% away from someone with $1000 and that's compromising the rent payment. Take away 90% from someone with $1,000,000 and they still have 100k which just about anyone can get by on without worrying about essentials.
2:30 Not correct. If you go 10 mph over you are not getting fine based on your income, but a fixed fine. You must go 20 km/h over the limit before you get "day fine". Used to be 15 km/h, which made me lucky once. When I was a student I once sped 17 km/h over the limit. Got day fine, but since I had no regular income, my fine was smaller than it would have been if I only went 14 km/h over. We used to say: "If you drive fast enough, you'll get a student discount".
@@5ithofnov159 Definitely a good system. Rich people can't get away with a fine which is only pocket money for them. I would even expand it and make all fines dependent on income. There's no technical reason, why tickets written on the spot couldn't be automatically printed to take account your income. Only problem is with people like me who have very irregular income. Last year I made something like €300 000, which means that if I made an offence today, I would be fined according to this figure. However, this year my income will be closer to €70 000, which means the fine would be high compared to my current income.
After a certain point of poverty, ANY fine is still a lot. The argument presented in the video that that the US's larger income inequality is a reason NOT to use day fines just doesn't make much sense. If you're budgeting down to the last cent to feed yourself and your family, 50% of your income for a week means far more to you than it would for someone who has more money than they know what to do with.
He'd just have his money shifted away from him and into some business to abuse the system. Ie I didn't make that money, my business did... I didn't make jack squat
Jan Pytela And Amazon pays no dividend... neither does Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet) or Tesla (Elon Musk) and the list goes on... Microsoft does, but Bill doesn't own these stocks anymore he gave them to his foundation... Now I wonder who the best EARNING person on this planet is.... maybe some sports guy cause they get paid with real money and not stocks they can put a bargain on...idk.
07:00 onwards, One difference between the US and Finland is also that the whole police force is national, not local in Finland, so the fines go too to the national government, not local
Strudlfaust food for thought though, the population size and landmass of Finland is much smaller, so it’s a bit more like the money is going to state government from a state police force (like state troopers)
One thing to consider is that the United States has 28,000 different law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level. It would be very difficult to implement a day fine system across the whole country, that’s why pilot programs only occurred at a county level because it’s easier to manage.
It depends on the State as well and the type of fine issued. Here in Maryland, generally, most citations issued by police are state level citations where one goes to a Maryland District Court to pay the fine and the funds go to the State and carry points on your driving record. However, most local governments (county and towns) also have the same or similar laws on the books which allows them to issue local citations. Which are often cheaper and don't carry points on one's driving record, but in my experience, most cops don't issue local tickets, unless its a parking ticket.
This would fix all problems with revenue traps in USA and not forcing cops to spend time on these traps, by making the money go the government, and then it get distributed to the states. There is lots of articles about these local police that use revenue traps to fund their expenses and even find up bogus tickets. ALL states in USA are corrupt cause of flawed system
@@mockupguy3577 Haha, I heard that one too! Maybe the narrator is of Swedish ancestry and wanted to hint at the Trans-Bothnian sibling rivalry by saying: Sweden has IKEA, Finland ain't got NO'KIA. Hillarious!
Mulligan's rhetorical question "do we want more speeding past schools in poor neighborhoods" is based on flawed logic. At the beginning of the video, the narrator clearly explains that the fine is calculated based on several factors, including the severity of the crime. Speeding past a school is likely to be seen as more severe than speeding past a pig farm in Iowa.
It's a case of completely missing the point anyway. He assumes that risking a fine is a calculated economic decision, it isn't. Size of the fine doesn't have much to do with how much an individual will avoid the same behavior in the future. The day fine system isn't there to hurt the rich in their wallet, rich are rare enough that they are not statistically relevant to overall crime rate anyway. The day system is there so that while the offender would feel punished, they wouldn't feel unjustly punished. If they see a fine as "damn pigs stealing mah hard earned money while letting rich kids off with a slap on the wrist" the offender isn't going to rethink his own behavior, which is the entire point of fining someone to begin with.
And just because rich people's fines will be higher doesn't mean poor people's fines would be insignificant. You could counter-propose that he's fine with wanton speeding around schools in rich areas, considering that the same fines that would bankrupt poorer people don't even tickle the wallets of rich people.
makes some sense, people usualy dont speed far from home. Im Portuguese so I dont know whats like in the US but here theres only a diference between an urban area or highway. In a urban area you can be speeding in huge straight road or in front of a cafe or school and you pay the same.
+Kyle Heck Nope, why would he be? Police in Finland (either singular, local department or the whole agency) does not get any portions of the fines. It all goes to the government. This is "Democratic Country - Basics Part 1." to avoid incentivising the police to make up more to fines. Wait, isn't that the system currently in US and their use of Civil Asset Forfeiture? Good thing that few states have banned it, only 40+ states left... Also, few million extra euros really doesn't help much when comparing it with the budget so doubt there would anyone jumping up and down.
@@alaric_ on the bright side say a 1% is the fine jeff bezoz's $78bn/year can give the government $780m extra to spend on infrastructure and other government services all without increasing any taxes
I'm fairly certain Cheddar is an American based company so obviously they're going to use the American units of measure. Not saying I agree with it but y'all shouldn't be surprised
America should definitely do this. Im Tired of Police arresting poor people that cant afford the tickets. Debtors Prisions are illegal in the USA and yet we still do it.
i'm finnish. if jeff bezos did 100 kmh over the limit in finland he would pay $20bn in fines. should be some limits. all systems have their point of absurdity.
@Just Ryan 🤣😂😂pretty much every single thing you said is false. That military that's the joke of the world? The same one who's been fighting a few hundred people armed with rocks and the random ak for 20 years? Better healthcare? So why do rich people got to Cuba for treatment and not the US? They could certainly afford it... Free speech? Give me a break. Your 1st amendment is so lousy that it only protects against the government. You have the ridiculous of people losing their jobs because of Twitter posts. How can someone be so delusional as you are? And slavery? The US was one of the last countries to abolish it and it needed a war for that! Seriously, you're the one who should do some research as I've never seen anyone so clueless and delusional If the US was so good why is it not even considered a first world country? Ever thought about that?
@@cheddar I only noticed it at 4:40, I though "cool, they use a period correct map". Though then failed to mention if it was either east or west Germany...
Population size has alot to do with it. With 330 millions in America and thousands of different cultures in one country, it naturally leads to many different voices, many different mentality, unlike in Finland, where it's not as diverse, not as many different cultures as America, and with less diverse population, you're bound to have similar mentality. That's why it won't work in the U.S. Too many people and too many diverse cultures.
That seemed a bit odd indeed, using a not current map would make sense. But since the years cited are between the world wars I would've expected a map from that era instead. What stood out to me on that particular one at a glance for the time period was: - Poland isn't shaped right (borders on both eastern and western side are shaped wrong) - Just one big area for the eastern bit, presumably USSR? - East Prussia missing above Poland The years highlighted were finland 1921, sweden 1931, denmark 1939. So I guess a between WW1 and before WW2 map would've been more correct (or just stick to a modern map so that people from today can recognise it). It's been a while since reading up on the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. But it definitely shouldn't have looked like it did there. When the map came around again a bit later at 4:32 made sense though (map wise) since the introduction year was 1975 when West Germany still existed. Just calling it "Germany" in the narration though was noticeable, would've been better to name it for what it was at the time.
How Private Prisons Are Profiting Under the Trump Administration. www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2019/08/30/473966/private-prisons-profiting-trump-administration/
No one needs people in prison in any country. Keeping people in prison costs money and while these people are in prison they are jot productive members of society. They ron’t make and spend money, don’t use services and don’t pay taxes. When you spend more on helping people get an education, healthcare and provide help to fragile and Unfortunately members of society you spend less on catching these people when they commit crimes and jailing them. In such societies more people are productive members of society and want to earn and spend money and understand what they pay taxes for. Less criminals =less crime=more safety= no need to own weapons and defend yourself against violent people who also have guns.
Because academics and politicians don’t have any understanding of what being poor is actually like. Even $100 as a fine when you live paycheck to paycheck is quite significant and can mean you only having a meal or two a day. I had a low income living financially independent from my parents when I was 19 and got a $300 speeding ticket. That was 80-90% of what I had made that week. Now I make less because I only work part time as a full time student. Fixed rates are not fair whatsoever.
Yeah, it made no sense. By that logic, every member of an upper class neighborhood would be committing crimes left and right because the penalty proportional to what they make means nothing. Unless he's just being classist and thinks of all poor people as animals without moral *audible gasp*.
(In US) I literally had this idea when I was like 15 or something without knowing any of this it seems so obvious that that's how it should be done fixed rates so clearly benefit the rich I can't believe it's a real thing that's awesome okay I'm done
You greatly underestimate the potential for corruption adding that to our system. We already have a problem with traffic fines being revenue collection in the US. With that, anyone who drives anything perceivably "nice" will now get pulled over constantly, regardless of whether or not they have the money. It's more important to have as few traffic stops as necessary than it is to make sure rich people don't speed. Besides, you already lose points off your license for speeding and can go to jail for doing 23 over.
This system still punishes the impoverished unfairly. Taking 50% of a poor person's income will literally force them to choose between paying bills or buying food. That's not true of a rich person. This law is just a thinly veiled attempt to vastly increase the potential revenue of traffic fines. If they really wanted the system to be 100% fair and equitable, they would abandon fines altogether and go to exclusively a points system.
Metrics please..... what does “go 47mph in a 31mph zone” mean..... not to say the original & accurate value is set in metrics, it really costs nothing to attach them next to the converted mph value.
7:13 Does this dude know that the point of day fines is to remove a proportion of your wages? Anyone would be terrified of losing 50% of their wages even if they are rich or poor. Of course, rich people with lots of assets will be less affected but they will feel more pain than with a flat fine of x currency.
@@yeetusfetus4503 The maps were even funnier, at 1:20 a Soviet era map was used for introduction years of 1921, 1931 and 1939. Then that same map is used for 1975 when it was introduced in Germany (highlighted area West Germany), which if I'm not mistaken is correct since the reunification was around 1990.
This is actually a great idea. I paid $600 for a ticket and I make $16k; so around 4% of my yearly income. Not fair someone who makes $60k because it is just 1% of their income. The current system is unfair to those of lower income.
I hope it gets implemented to U.S Been living in California about a year (originally from Finland heh), loving it so far and i'm about to stay here for the rest of my life! But i still hope for a list of other changes regarding income difference.
So this is something that I conceptualized back in high school, listening to stories about corporations skirting the law and paying the fine as "the cost of doing business", and not caring or being discouraged against engaging in criminal practices in the future. At the time, I figured that the fine should be based on the amount of money earned/saved in the process of violating the law, but considering the administrative work required to determine that, I can definitely see how it's easier to base the fine on the overall income or net worth of the business or individual. It's rather well-known in this country that the rich and famous aren't subject to the same laws as the rest of us, because they can pay the fines without a care in the world, while to someone making minimum wage, they might have to choose between paying a parking ticket, and getting groceries that week. If Mitt Romney is presented with a $10,000 fine, that's just "making it interesting". To nearly anyone else, that's bankrupting. The very end talking about Finland going to flat-fees for minor offenses said specifically: it's because it takes time and effort on the part of the police department to get your financial records and calculate the fine based on those, whereas a flat fine they already know the amount and can hand you the bill on the side of the road. It's not better, it's just easier.
Also, the argument about "more speeding past poor schools than rich schools" completely misses the point. Honestly, that's what we have NOW. Say the fine is $200. Anyone attending the poor school makes $200 in a month working part-time after school. Anyone going to the rich school gets $200 per week as allowance, if not more. If you made the fine in front of the poor school be $200, and the fine in front of the rich school be $2,000, you'd achieve similar levels of deterrence. Then for a Kennedy kid, the fine would be $20,000. Enough that they'd actually notice.
@@c182SkylaneRG Woah woah woah there buddy. You're making too much sense! This will never be implemented in USA because common fines will finally actually start hurting the rich. It's that simple. Everything else is a excuse used to skirt that. I mean, just listen to that "experts" excuse that a 5th grader could break apart
Fines are not a way of generating revenue for the government, police or towns, like it is in the US, they're plain and simple punishments for crimes. Which is one reason the system works. Politicians wanted to increase fines as a way of generating more revenue and were slapped down by the constitutional committee. "Already in Olaus Petri's judicial instructions in the 1530s it was stated: “All the law is set for the sake of justice and fairness and not for the sake of revenue. For a fine is a punishment for those who break the law; but the law wants to be unbreakable rather than broken, and it would be preferred that no fine be needed at all. ”"
@@antikommunistischaktion What he means is that the society isn't dependent on fines. That money goes to stopping people who are about to get a fine, meaning in theory that if nobody gets a fine, there is nobody to give out a fine.
I love this idea. There are so many rich douchebags in this country who aggressively speed in their fancy ass cars just because $500-$1000 isn't shit for them so they don't care about the consequences. I would love to see this adopted.
7:30 the US also has a very elaborate social safety net, for the mega rich.. Provide free slave labour to private prisons. Give huge bailouts to banks and giant corporations. Allow big pharma to freely distribute highly addictive opioids. Write blank checks to the military industrial complex. Hand over subsidies to fossil fuel industry. And so on and so forth.
Doesn't your collection of countries arrest people for saying mean things on Twitter and criticizing your government officials? Sit down. Say what you want about the US prison system, at least it's not a political prison system like in your crappy countries. Not to mention not a single European country has a notion of "double jeopardy" meaning if you are charged and found not guilty they can just charge you over and over until you are found guilty.
@@antikommunistischaktion Finland hasn't arrested a single person ever for criticizing anyone on social media, you can sue again and again but it will cost crazy amounts of money and wont change the sentence if you're innocent, not to mention that it has never been done.
I swear all the arguments against these fines are actually perfect examples of why they should be implemented in the US. "It creates disparity betwwen poorer and richer neighbourhoods" - surely it does the opposite? "The US has a high incarceration rate therefore it won't work" - the fines would reduce the incarceration rate? etc...
In many Countries, fines do not have an educational role, but a money-raising role. This ends up generating a system full of complex and meaningless rules serving as traps to raise more money that encourage abusive practices and bribes.
This video starts off with some pretty inaccurate facts. In Finland they use Kilometres per hour, not miles and Euros not Dollars.... Why isn't the title of this video "Why Finland has €88,000 Speeding Fines - Cheddar Explains facts rather than dumbing it down for some of their viewers who happen to be from the US"
You forgot to mention that (here in Finland) speeding tickets under 20km/h (12mph) are a fixed rate which ranges from 70-200 euros, only past 20km/h of exceeding the limit is the ticket calculated with day fines
True story that happened in Finland inside of a week: my friend's boss was little heavy on the gas pedal in the morning while driving to work. I happens when you drive Porsche. Police had set a speed control point in the way that morning. Boss had little time to slam the brakes and slow down before they got the official speed. He managed by talking to not lose his driving license but the Boss had said the fine was "substantial". What we know from his finacials, it has to be thousands of euros easily. Could prob reach low 5 figures. So i'm going to guess but that is going to slow his work commuting somewhat. More than a "few points and 50€ fine" like in other countries.
The fines are cool and all until a potential business comes to finland and instantly gets a huge fine slapped on them making them pissed as hell and probably cutting whatever deal they were gonna make off
@@darpal9424 Yeah, this is only for small infractions. Large companies are still getting away with they money when they break heavily laws. Best examples are enviromental, finnish government is scared shitless that money leaves the country so they almost literally bend over backwards to facilitate large companies. Foreign companies have several times left insane amounts of cleanup for government to cleanup and still they don't fined or sued, at the same huge incintives are given for future mining companies. When americans hear about "nordic socialist country", this is the reality: money and large companies still says how things are done. Workers rights and benefits have been slashed all for the benefit of the Big Money.
1:16 Here we can see how badly humans destroy our planet. Remember Aral Sea? 100 years ago there was a great Moldovan sea which today is completely gone. 😂
@@jk8557 simply put, because fines make people think twice about committing a crime. If rich people paid the same price as poor people when they commit the same crime, the rich can simply "throw money at the problem." Tl;dr: We need people to be *equally* *discouraged* from committing a crime. Raising fines on rich people makes them feel the same way that a poor person would feel like when they commit a crime
@@jk8557 Because if you slap a millionaire with a 150€ fine, they'll just brush it off. Give the same to a regular shop assistant, and it's a much bigger relative burden.
The map was correct (aside from some places turning into lake or sea) when they were talking about Germany because it was the year 1975 but they should've used an interwar map for the earlier years.
That's actually part of the Finnish system. The minimum amount of daily fine is 6€, so even if you claim no income you need to pay that much, and then there are some minimum total amounts for certain crimes, for example speeding on a moped (teenagers are not allowed to drive cars or motorcycles in Finland before turning 18) has a minimum fine of 100€ regardless of the amount of days fined or the daily fine, and for speeding on all other vehicles the minimum total is 200€. All in all, as a Finn I can say it works wonders. The same kind of deterrent for everyone regardless of how wealthy people are. I know we sometimes see people complaining about excessive fines, but then again, they could have just made sure to drive according to the speed limit instead.
@@Egod3us I've actually hoped that this system is implemented in my county. It's not that it's unfair, it is the most fairest thing because even though it seems that it charge rich people more but it's technically charging them the same percentage wise
Vincent Tjianattan yes but ur changing rich ppl on wealth not crime in this system making it unfair. This is stealing. Giving an $80 fine to someone and three a $200 fine to someone is stealing on the more expensive person’s part. This is a very corrupt way of the government trying to get money. Y r ppl so blind to the fact that crimes r based on crimes not wealth.
We aren’t the only nation with a welfare system, you know. Most of the nations with a day fine system have a welfare system, as well. Putting aside the fact that you can get welfare without earning $0 (you’re thinking of unemployment benefits), if there was such a glaring exploit of the system it wouldn’t be as successful as it is.
That map was interesting indeed, I'd actually have been fine with it if they had picked a map with the territories established by the Treaty of Versailles (the 1919 one) and Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. But picking a map what to me appeared to be a map from the Soviet era when Germany was still split up into two parts seems a bit wrong. At least the countries highlighted for where it was introduced didn't change significantly when it came to their borders for the first time they used that map around the 1 minute mark. Later on using it for the introduction in Germany as well though, that seemed truly weird.
For me as a German it's quite funny to watch this because here in Germany there is a huge debate about our fine policies. For example: In Germany nearly 2/3 of prisoners are incarnated because of minor crimes respectively for not paying their fines. So watching this and seeing, how much worse it could be, but also how much better it could be is horrible.
This is the reason McDonald's was sued for millions of dollars for hot coffee. The lid was not secured, and the coffee was so hot that the resulting burn out her in the hospital. She only asked McDonald's to pay her 20,000 hospital bill. They refused so she sued them. She never asked for millions of dollars that was awarded to her by the jury of her peers. The figure was based on two days worth of McDonald's coffee sales. Anything less would have been completely insignificant to McDonald's. They have to much money and for them to care the fine has to be big enough for them to notice. In the end she did not get 2.7. she got an undisclosed amount of my money and the hate of all of America who gravely misunderstood the case and thought it was a sham.
@@celestix_ Equalist. Why does a hamburger cost $5 at one restaurant and $50 at another? One caters to the poor and the other to the wealthy. The difference in quality, even if there is one, is not going to be ten times better.
7:19 "Do we want more speeding past schools in poor neighborhoods than in rich neighborhoods?" The solution is simple: Put a minimum value. If the day fine is less than the minimum, the person is fined the minimum. If their income is high enough so the day fine is higher, they pay the day fine.
I think it's confusing how you call the Finnish system of proportionality "day fines". Because you can have day fines without proportionality to the revenue. The word "day fine" just means you can choose to pay the fine or go to jail.
"The word "day fine" just means you can choose to pay the fine or go to jail." It doesn't refer to that. It means that if you e.g. get fined 10 day fines the amount should in principle be equal to 10 days worth of disposable income. (In practice it's less than that.)
A better solution would be to abolish fines altogether, and to institute a demerit point system. If you receive too many demerit points you'll lose your privilege to drive; if you're caught driving whilst suspended, this would be treated as criminal behaviour, and the suspended driver should be sent to jail.
But of course, the headlines don't mention that it's income-based, because of course they're okay with making the less billionaire-friendly system look worse.
Yeah....when I was super low income it one time took my months to work out how to pay a $200 ticket. Now it would be just a minor annoyance in the monthly budget - I might go out to eat a few fewer times or skip out on some small luxury.
"It's unlikely the US will implement day fines. It's just too different." And, of course, it would cut into the near-total impunity that the wealthy ruling classes enjoy, and they have no compunctions about using the government for ends other than serving the best interests of the people.
Just cuz u earn more doesn’t mean u have more to spend. Someone with 5 kids who makes 100k will have much less money to spend compared to a single person that earns 50k
Do drug dealers and pimps also have to pay the day fine. I mean, is it only legitimately earned income that counts? If you’re unemployed, is the fine waived?
Legally, there is no difference if the money earned legitimately or not. At least in the US. I'm guessing that if you are unemployed, then the fine would be proportional to what benefits you have.
@@Kimberly-wt1nu only legitimately earned income counts, drug dealing and being a pimp is illegal in finland and all income earned by criminal activity will be confiscated by the state. keke was right about the unemployed
47 days for 10mph over seems excessive... that'd be close to $2k for someone taking home around $30k/yr. Edit: this is assuming net income at a total tax rate of around 17% (I believe you stated the fines were based on net income at one point)
Idk why they just grabbed 47 out of no where. A quick online search says it’s 12 days for 15 over and 22 days for 25 over. Still a weeks worth for 15 over seems excessive until you realize Europe has speed cameras everywhere.(at least austria did) I also think just the way people live in the US makes things different. My in-laws from Austria and France questioned why I was even going 1mph over the speed limit reminding me every sign we passed(in the US) and my father said even in Japan normal is not going over the speed limit.
kunimiy212 in finland people drive over the speed limit all the time, like 55kph in 50 zone 87kph in an 80 zone and almost 110kph in a 100 zone but everybody slows down for cameras and if there’s police on the road with u :) but then again that’s only on familiar roads, so i would drive like that on my way to work or school but if i’m driving on a road that i haven’t been on before or aren’t familiar i tend to drive the speed limit since u never know where there could be a camera unlike on ur daily commute where u know every single groove in the road
@@Jepitty00 that's not really considered driving over the speed limit. You know cars overestimate the speed you're going as a safety measure, don't you?
Is it though? The results are clear when it comes to safety. The US has a fatality rate of 12.4 per 100,000 inhabitants, Finland 3.8, and Switzerland (with a similar income based fine policy) only 2.2 - the world's safest roads. Even when accounted for average distance driven (per billion vehicle kilometers) the rate 7.3 vs 5.1 vs 3.2..
Meanwhile in Switzerland (which has a similar income + wealth based fine policy): for going 285 in a 120 zone, 1.1 million CHF fine (the highest possible according to the law), confiscation of the vehicle used to commit the offense (I assume permanently) and at least 6 months in jail. Result: world's safest roads.
Maybe this fine policy will destroy the false sense of entitlement and legal invulnerability complex so common among the upper income and the rich. They tend not to modify their behavior since fines are just a tiny slap on the wrist. A working class person is far more likely to modify their driving habits since fines impose a real hardship or even threat of jail if they can't afford the next fine, something the rich never have to worry about.
The one thing you could argue with here is that the law is based on equality. Separation by factors such as race, gender or financial status may be seen as a direct violation of law ethics.
Easy solution to that. Instead of fine, just make it community service. Punishment is the same, lets say 10 days of work. But rich person not working in his regular job for 10 days will lose more income than poor person not working in his job for 10 days.
If you are under the Regan theory that punishment is the key to reducing crime, then you should love day fines, because they ensure that everyone feels the same deterrence.
There’s a rich guy who literally has so much money he illegally parks anywhere in the city. Whenever he gets a ticket he treats it like a parking fee instead of a fine. He parks anywhere he wants a pays a “fee”
Here (Brazil), if you get more than 20 points on your driver's license, you cannot drive for a year. Minor is 3 points, medium is 4, bad is 5 and worst is 7. So you cannot get 3 worst tickets within a year. Some crimes(drunk-driving) might make you lose your license regardless of points and also you might go to jail. This system not always work, but is better than having a fee-only system.
In America, parking fines don’t add points to your license.
Henrique Brisola Parking is a considered a non-moving violation in America. Non-moving violations don’t not affect your points on your driver’s license.
@@geo5106 which is exactly how it should be. non-moving violations do not reflect your driving skill or your road safety at all.
@KolTony a stationary object shouldn't pose grave danger to a sufficiently defensive driver.
It's only logical. If the fine is 500 dollars, for a millionaire, it's not a punishment... it's nothing!
Really? Then why stop at money? Surely, if a crime is worth 100 days in prison, then the rich, who have much much more leisure time available, should be forced to spend TEN TIMES that amount of time in jail. OR, BETTER YET, WHY NOT LET THE RICH PAY THEIR WAY OUT OF SPENDING ANY TIME IN JAIL??? Their additional fine would be better spent keeping lower-income scum in jail, where they could not re-offend, as you know they will.
@@JohnVKaravitis I can see salt pouring from your mouth :D
@@JohnVKaravitis everybody has the same amount of time available to them, but not everybody has the same amount of money available to them. Your logic is flawed.
@@JohnVKaravitis now that logic is dum your just salty cause you have money
Ask yourself this - what is the actual crime, what is the actual threat to society here - the speeding, which poses an equal risk to life and limb from and for rich and poor, or is being rich the actual thing you are trying to punish? Both the rich man and the poor man transgressed equally, the penalty should be equal.
7:13 I think the law professor was on a different wavelength
Lower fines would not necessarily lead to an increase in speeding/crime in poorer areas, because to poorer people, these fines are as big a financial burden on them as the rich
Worse, if you impose a high fine in poorer areas, then default may mean jail time. And if you subscribe to the notion that employers are prejudiced against ex convicts, this will just perpetuate a life of crime
I agree and also want to bring up the fact that Finland has had these kinds of fines for so long that you can't just dismiss the potential causal relationship between the fines and how many people they have in prison.
And well... maybe the populace thinking that the government is a bunch of liars and cheats isn't the best thing, so perhaps the government shouldn't be made up of liars and cheats?
Yup. That professor's take on it was a jarring incongruity in the video. Really doesn't make sense, since the day fine model is explicitly meant to deal with income inequality.
except now those fines are probably higher relative to the median income in that area. Higher relative fines do make you think twice about things like speeding.
@@gildedbear5355 Well, if the government is a bunch of liars and cheats, why would we wanna give em an extra $100K?
Exactly! Higher fines lead to the poor people not paying and eventually going to jail, and the state doesn't get the money. They said exactly that earlier in the video...
Makes perfect sense. Literally affects everyone the same way and makes it fair. Actual deterrent for those that would normally just rack up speeding tickets and pay their way out of a few hundred bucks.
It makes sense and is more fair, except for those on the very lower levels. People in poverty budget every single cent and using half their income means missing rent or not eating for weeks, but 50% of a rich person’s salary doesn’t cut into actual daily expenses at all. There needs to be a lower limit where it drops, based on cost of living.
Not sure about Finland, but in the U.S, the main deterrent to speeding is not the fine, but the possibility of infractions against your license.
@@Skilliard It's the same in Finland, you could quite easily loose your license AND pay a hefty fine for very reckless driving, or for getting caught speeding multiple times.
Don't see how it makes sense. So of you are sent to jail the time you spend there should be based on how much free time you usually have? Here in Portugal if you're a repeat offender you lose your license. It affects rich and poor equally without actually being unequal in absolute terms
The impact doesn't scale. Take 10% away from someone with $1000 and that's compromising the rent payment. Take away 90% from someone with $1,000,000 and they still have 100k which just about anyone can get by on without worrying about essentials.
2:30
Not correct. If you go 10 mph over you are not getting fine based on your income, but a fixed fine. You must go 20 km/h over the limit before you get "day fine". Used to be 15 km/h, which made me lucky once. When I was a student I once sped 17 km/h over the limit. Got day fine, but since I had no regular income, my fine was smaller than it would have been if I only went 14 km/h over. We used to say: "If you drive fast enough, you'll get a student discount".
lmao
Is this a good system. I as an american see this and say we should have this in america, but you with the experience, do you believe to be good?
Everything in the scenario was hypothetical in order to get the point across.
@@5ithofnov159
Definitely a good system. Rich people can't get away with a fine which is only pocket money for them. I would even expand it and make all fines dependent on income. There's no technical reason, why tickets written on the spot couldn't be automatically printed to take account your income.
Only problem is with people like me who have very irregular income. Last year I made something like €300 000, which means that if I made an offence today, I would be fined according to this figure. However, this year my income will be closer to €70 000, which means the fine would be high compared to my current income.
id write the ticket over if someone asked.
This makes sense. A $500 fine can be a minor inconvenience for some and devastating for others.
Some should be jugged on their crime not their income
@@danielberezin3546 bro it’s speeding
@@danielberezin3546 what about both?
@@danielberezin3546 ok they are going to be judged by a flat %, that’s fair :)
@@danielberezin3546 I mean considering how many multimillion dollar corporations have been found of using slave labor so this is fair
Regarding the argument at: 7:15 you just make the lowest fine rates high enough that they still are a lot for a poor person? It's not that hard.
After a certain point of poverty, ANY fine is still a lot. The argument presented in the video that that the US's larger income inequality is a reason NOT to use day fines just doesn't make much sense.
If you're budgeting down to the last cent to feed yourself and your family, 50% of your income for a week means far more to you than it would for someone who has more money than they know what to do with.
just keep the current fine as the base and then add
@@my_granny they shouldn't speed and throw their chicken bones out of the window if they can't afford it.
I straight up did not understand what that man is arguing. May I bother you to reformulate it in a more understandable manner?
@@kolcs He didn't make any sense, don't worry. I think he deliberately argued on the wrong assumptions as to confuse people.
Imagine Bezos paying a fine 🤑🤑
someone can do that math. i could if i wasn't lazy.
He'd just have his money shifted away from him and into some business to abuse the system. Ie I didn't make that money, my business did... I didn't make jack squat
Most of his wealth only counts as income after he sells the Amazon stock. So it would be something more like the Nokia guy.
@@JanPytela income is when the stocks go up
Jan Pytela And Amazon pays no dividend... neither does Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet) or Tesla (Elon Musk) and the list goes on... Microsoft does, but Bill doesn't own these stocks anymore he gave them to his foundation...
Now I wonder who the best EARNING person on this planet is.... maybe some sports guy cause they get paid with real money and not stocks they can put a bargain on...idk.
07:00 onwards, One difference between the US and Finland is also that the whole police force is national, not local in Finland, so the fines go too to the national government, not local
Strudlfaust food for thought though, the population size and landmass of Finland is much smaller, so it’s a bit more like the money is going to state government from a state police force (like state troopers)
@@elonchan4883 the difference is that poor neighborhoods or cities don't see an income difference as all that is handled on a federal level.
One thing to consider is that the United States has 28,000 different law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level. It would be very difficult to implement a day fine system across the whole country, that’s why pilot programs only occurred at a county level because it’s easier to manage.
It depends on the State as well and the type of fine issued. Here in Maryland, generally, most citations issued by police are state level citations where one goes to a Maryland District Court to pay the fine and the funds go to the State and carry points on your driving record. However, most local governments (county and towns) also have the same or similar laws on the books which allows them to issue local citations. Which are often cheaper and don't carry points on one's driving record, but in my experience, most cops don't issue local tickets, unless its a parking ticket.
This would fix all problems with revenue traps in USA and not forcing cops to spend time on these traps, by making the money go the government, and then it get distributed to the states.
There is lots of articles about these local police that use revenue traps to fund their expenses and even find up bogus tickets.
ALL states in USA are corrupt cause of flawed system
And the pronunciation of finnish wasn’t even that bad. Good job Cheddar!
Well, No-Kia, was pretty bad
@@mockupguy3577 Haha, I heard that one too! Maybe the narrator is of Swedish ancestry and wanted to hint at the Trans-Bothnian sibling rivalry by saying: Sweden has IKEA, Finland ain't got NO'KIA. Hillarious!
It’s pronounced Knock- e ah
I like it how they used at 4:42 as an example germany but its a WW2 map that doesnt enclude the whole Germany just a part of it.
Imagine Bezos paying a fine 🤑🤑
Mulligan's rhetorical question "do we want more speeding past schools in poor neighborhoods" is based on flawed logic. At the beginning of the video, the narrator clearly explains that the fine is calculated based on several factors, including the severity of the crime. Speeding past a school is likely to be seen as more severe than speeding past a pig farm in Iowa.
Yes, he is either stupid or dishonest. Probably a bit of both, otherwise he could think of a better argument.
It's a case of completely missing the point anyway. He assumes that risking a fine is a calculated economic decision, it isn't. Size of the fine doesn't have much to do with how much an individual will avoid the same behavior in the future. The day fine system isn't there to hurt the rich in their wallet, rich are rare enough that they are not statistically relevant to overall crime rate anyway. The day system is there so that while the offender would feel punished, they wouldn't feel unjustly punished. If they see a fine as "damn pigs stealing mah hard earned money while letting rich kids off with a slap on the wrist" the offender isn't going to rethink his own behavior, which is the entire point of fining someone to begin with.
And just because rich people's fines will be higher doesn't mean poor people's fines would be insignificant. You could counter-propose that he's fine with wanton speeding around schools in rich areas, considering that the same fines that would bankrupt poorer people don't even tickle the wallets of rich people.
makes some sense, people usualy dont speed far from home. Im Portuguese so I dont know whats like in the US but here theres only a diference between an urban area or highway. In a urban area you can be speeding in huge straight road or in front of a cafe or school and you pay the same.
The cop that would pull over Jeff bezos would be so excited.
He has no income..
He earns $0 a year
@@dubious6718 it's not only about income, but total equity
+Kyle Heck Nope, why would he be? Police in Finland (either singular, local department or the whole agency) does not get any portions of the fines. It all goes to the government.
This is "Democratic Country - Basics Part 1." to avoid incentivising the police to make up more to fines. Wait, isn't that the system currently in US and their use of Civil Asset Forfeiture? Good thing that few states have banned it, only 40+ states left...
Also, few million extra euros really doesn't help much when comparing it with the budget so doubt there would anyone jumping up and down.
@@alaric_ on the bright side say a 1% is the fine jeff bezoz's $78bn/year can give the government $780m extra to spend on infrastructure and other government services all without increasing any taxes
Gah, he wasn't doing 47 mph in a 31 mph zone, he was doing 76 km/h in a 50 km/h zone :-/
Same thing, kids.
@@EWOODJ nobody uses mph, so no
@@EWOODJ it's not the same thing because any rational person is thinking why would someone have a 31 mph speed limit. What was wrong with 30?😂
Also I'm quite sure they didn't charge him in dollars but rather in euros
I'm fairly certain Cheddar is an American based company so obviously they're going to use the American units of measure. Not saying I agree with it but y'all shouldn't be surprised
America should definitely do this. Im Tired of Police arresting poor people that cant afford the tickets. Debtors Prisions are illegal in the USA and yet we still do it.
i'm finnish. if jeff bezos did 100 kmh over the limit in finland he would pay $20bn in fines. should be some limits. all systems have their point of absurdity.
@Just Ryan Finland, like almost any other developed country, has better healthcare than the US. Just google healthcare ranking.
@@wudupfammm8555 maybe it's his wealth that absurd, not the fine 😉
@Just Ryan 🤣😂😂pretty much every single thing you said is false. That military that's the joke of the world? The same one who's been fighting a few hundred people armed with rocks and the random ak for 20 years? Better healthcare? So why do rich people got to Cuba for treatment and not the US? They could certainly afford it... Free speech? Give me a break. Your 1st amendment is so lousy that it only protects against the government. You have the ridiculous of people losing their jobs because of Twitter posts. How can someone be so delusional as you are?
And slavery? The US was one of the last countries to abolish it and it needed a war for that! Seriously, you're the one who should do some research as I've never seen anyone so clueless and delusional
If the US was so good why is it not even considered a first world country? Ever thought about that?
wudup fammm No he wouldn’t, Bezos has a lot of capital but not a particularly high income.
0:09 I understand converting to miles per hour, but at least leave the km/h numbers in, as it was a 50 km/h zone, not 31 mi/h.
Just one thing: The minimum daily fine exists. It's 6€ per day, so the 5$ of the example was below that. 😊
Seems logical otherwise children wouldn't have to pay anything for their offences
The age of criminal responsibility in Finland is 15 years. So children cannot get fines.
@@zarzzi I am talking about teens, sorry for the confusion. The teens that don't het have a job
If you drive 20km/h over the limit the minimum sum is 200€ if you have no income.
1:20 you used wrong map of Europe. This map would be correct after the WW2, not between wars...
Yes, a pretty bad mistake. Apologize for that. We reused the map from 4:40 which was cold war error.
@@cheddar I only noticed it at 4:40, I though "cool, they use a period correct map". Though then failed to mention if it was either east or west Germany...
@@relo999 They did paint in West Germany.
Also, day fines based on your income doesn't even really work in authoritarian communist east Germany
I'm more surprised that Moldova is an inland sea. Also rip Kaliningrad.
@@cheddar "Cold War Error", you mean "era"?
I don't see how population size has any effect on day fines...
Lol the US just likes creating excuses for why it won't accept successful European policies
Because there'd be many conflicting voices
Population size has alot to do with it. With 330 millions in America and thousands of different cultures in one country, it naturally leads to many different voices, many different mentality, unlike in Finland, where it's not as diverse, not as many different cultures as America, and with less diverse population, you're bound to have similar mentality.
That's why it won't work in the U.S.
Too many people and too many diverse cultures.
@@terriesmith8219 Why would different cultures be the reason for crime? I guess you meant generally
@@ninjal7588
Different cultures have different mentality.
Different mentality will naturally caused conflict.
1:16 By the way. Germany is united for some time now.
LONG LIVE THE DDR
That seemed a bit odd indeed, using a not current map would make sense. But since the years cited are between the world wars I would've expected a map from that era instead. What stood out to me on that particular one at a glance for the time period was:
- Poland isn't shaped right (borders on both eastern and western side are shaped wrong)
- Just one big area for the eastern bit, presumably USSR?
- East Prussia missing above Poland
The years highlighted were finland 1921, sweden 1931, denmark 1939. So I guess a between WW1 and before WW2 map would've been more correct (or just stick to a modern map so that people from today can recognise it). It's been a while since reading up on the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. But it definitely shouldn't have looked like it did there.
When the map came around again a bit later at 4:32 made sense though (map wise) since the introduction year was 1975 when West Germany still existed. Just calling it "Germany" in the narration though was noticeable, would've been better to name it for what it was at the time.
They are american, maybe they didn't knew germany is United again lmao
@@GrantWitherspoon Long live the Dance Dance Revolution. Long live the Double Data Rate.
You have to give them a bit of credit. At least they weren't showing the borders from WW2 while Germany invaded the Sowjet Union
I can't see any reason not to implement Finlands system everywhere... did i miss something? Seems like a great option to me🤷♂️
For poor people, yes.
@@d4nkx549 so... the majority?
In some places determining people's incomes might not be simple.
@@d4nkx549 Fix a minimum threshold for a fine to charge, and then increase it linearly after a high enough income.
3:55 why the USA won#t introduce day fines. They need people in prisons.
And we live under a class dictatorship. The rich are that class.
How Private Prisons Are Profiting Under the Trump Administration.
www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2019/08/30/473966/private-prisons-profiting-trump-administration/
More people = more cash
No one needs people in prison in any country. Keeping people in prison costs money and while these people are in prison they are jot productive members of society. They ron’t make and spend money, don’t use services and don’t pay taxes. When you spend more on helping people get an education, healthcare and provide help to fragile and Unfortunately members of society you spend less on catching these people when they commit crimes and jailing them. In such societies more people are productive members of society and want to earn and spend money and understand what they pay taxes for. Less criminals =less crime=more safety= no need to own weapons and defend yourself against violent people who also have guns.
Same thing happens in Switzerland, the largest fine ever was in Switzerland, $1,091,000
I don't get why being charged based on your income would make you more likely to speed by your neighboring school.
ya, i didn't get that guy either.
Because academics and politicians don’t have any understanding of what being poor is actually like. Even $100 as a fine when you live paycheck to paycheck is quite significant and can mean you only having a meal or two a day. I had a low income living financially independent from my parents when I was 19 and got a $300 speeding ticket. That was 80-90% of what I had made that week. Now I make less because I only work part time as a full time student. Fixed rates are not fair whatsoever.
Yeah, it made no sense. By that logic, every member of an upper class neighborhood would be committing crimes left and right because the penalty proportional to what they make means nothing. Unless he's just being classist and thinks of all poor people as animals without moral *audible gasp*.
(In US) I literally had this idea when I was like 15 or something without knowing any of this it seems so obvious that that's how it should be done fixed rates so clearly benefit the rich I can't believe it's a real thing that's awesome okay I'm done
I feel like everyone just thinks this is the way it should be and that the government is just oblivious
@@markysharky03 government is controlled by rich people
You greatly underestimate the potential for corruption adding that to our system.
We already have a problem with traffic fines being revenue collection in the US. With that, anyone who drives anything perceivably "nice" will now get pulled over constantly, regardless of whether or not they have the money.
It's more important to have as few traffic stops as necessary than it is to make sure rich people don't speed.
Besides, you already lose points off your license for speeding and can go to jail for doing 23 over.
Right, except cops are already much less likely to pull you over if you're rich. Because it could/will ruin your career.
This system still punishes the impoverished unfairly. Taking 50% of a poor person's income will literally force them to choose between paying bills or buying food. That's not true of a rich person.
This law is just a thinly veiled attempt to vastly increase the potential revenue of traffic fines. If they really wanted the system to be 100% fair and equitable, they would abandon fines altogether and go to exclusively a points system.
Metrics please..... what does “go 47mph in a 31mph zone” mean..... not to say the original & accurate value is set in metrics, it really costs nothing to attach them next to the converted mph value.
Learn America
Wow, how very American of you.
47mph(75kph) 31mph(49kph) also for future reference just multiply the MPH by 1.609 and you'll have your answer.
7:13 Does this dude know that the point of day fines is to remove a proportion of your wages?
Anyone would be terrified of losing 50% of their wages even if they are rich or poor. Of course, rich people with lots of assets will be less affected but they will feel more pain than with a flat fine of x currency.
8:39 “but particularly finland and the *other scandinavian countries”*
disappointed but not surprised...
I'm a simple finn, I see Finland, I click
I see Finland, I perkele
Same
Torille
I live with Finns, so if I see Finland, I click.
The ticket said city council. City councils have nothing to do with police in Finland
They also used a brittish police vehicle, I think they just used stock photos and/or photos they can edit
@@yeetusfetus4503 The maps were even funnier, at 1:20 a Soviet era map was used for introduction years of 1921, 1931 and 1939. Then that same map is used for 1975 when it was introduced in Germany (highlighted area West Germany), which if I'm not mistaken is correct since the reunification was around 1990.
This is actually a great idea. I paid $600 for a ticket and I make $16k; so around 4% of my yearly income. Not fair someone who makes $60k because it is just 1% of their income. The current system is unfair to those of lower income.
WolfenGod82 wrong
Life isn't fair. Stop leeching off rich people.
@@d4nkx549 saying life isnt fair does not justify more unfairness
@@d4nkx549 life isn’t fair, so why are you complaining for a more fair system? ☺️
@@d4nkx549 Would "leeching off rich people" be unfair?
I love this system. I wish we had this in the USA also.
I love it because I'm poor
Yeah, speeding to a rich man is pocket change. Speeding for a poor man can mean he doesn't eat or pay rent that month
Good luck getting it implemented, since the system in the U.S. heavily favors the rich, and the rich enjoy paying pocket change for doing crimes.
I hope it gets implemented to U.S
Been living in California about a year (originally from Finland heh), loving it so far and i'm about to stay here for the rest of my life!
But i still hope for a list of other changes regarding income difference.
A fine that is proportional to income makes a lot of sense.
7:43 umm, isn't that why the government exists in the first place?
It felt like oh really, you don't say?
So this is something that I conceptualized back in high school, listening to stories about corporations skirting the law and paying the fine as "the cost of doing business", and not caring or being discouraged against engaging in criminal practices in the future. At the time, I figured that the fine should be based on the amount of money earned/saved in the process of violating the law, but considering the administrative work required to determine that, I can definitely see how it's easier to base the fine on the overall income or net worth of the business or individual. It's rather well-known in this country that the rich and famous aren't subject to the same laws as the rest of us, because they can pay the fines without a care in the world, while to someone making minimum wage, they might have to choose between paying a parking ticket, and getting groceries that week. If Mitt Romney is presented with a $10,000 fine, that's just "making it interesting". To nearly anyone else, that's bankrupting.
The very end talking about Finland going to flat-fees for minor offenses said specifically: it's because it takes time and effort on the part of the police department to get your financial records and calculate the fine based on those, whereas a flat fine they already know the amount and can hand you the bill on the side of the road. It's not better, it's just easier.
Also, the argument about "more speeding past poor schools than rich schools" completely misses the point. Honestly, that's what we have NOW. Say the fine is $200. Anyone attending the poor school makes $200 in a month working part-time after school. Anyone going to the rich school gets $200 per week as allowance, if not more. If you made the fine in front of the poor school be $200, and the fine in front of the rich school be $2,000, you'd achieve similar levels of deterrence. Then for a Kennedy kid, the fine would be $20,000. Enough that they'd actually notice.
@@c182SkylaneRG Woah woah woah there buddy. You're making too much sense! This will never be implemented in USA because common fines will finally actually start hurting the rich. It's that simple. Everything else is a excuse used to skirt that. I mean, just listen to that "experts" excuse that a 5th grader could break apart
There's a reason why the GDPR fines are issued on the basis of revenue, not profit.
Fines are not a way of generating revenue for the government, police or towns, like it is in the US, they're plain and simple punishments for crimes. Which is one reason the system works.
Politicians wanted to increase fines as a way of generating more revenue and were slapped down by the constitutional committee.
"Already in Olaus Petri's judicial instructions in the 1530s it was stated:
“All the law is set for the sake of justice and fairness and not for the sake of revenue. For a fine is a punishment for those who break the law; but the law wants to be unbreakable rather than broken, and it would be preferred that no fine be needed at all. ”"
Yeah they just donated that $100k+ fine to charity right?
@@antikommunistischaktion What he means is that the society isn't dependent on fines. That money goes to stopping people who are about to get a fine, meaning in theory that if nobody gets a fine, there is nobody to give out a fine.
I love this idea. There are so many rich douchebags in this country who aggressively speed in their fancy ass cars just because $500-$1000 isn't shit for them so they don't care about the consequences.
I would love to see this adopted.
1:18 Wait, why is Kaliningrad part of the Baltic Sea on the map and why on the same map is Moldova an inland sea ?
Edit : also 4:40
I did a double take at 4:40 haha
Maybe they couldnt include Russia cause maybe their statistics differ and same for Moldova
Also Germany
Also Yugoslavia
🤔.. Map 🤣🤣🤣 LoL. Were is Estonia and ewery Else things 🤣🤣🤣. Haha
.. USA school system Confirmed.
👩🎓🔫🤑👍
1:19 Why did you show a cold war era map of europe when talking about pre WWII events?
The best part is the sea in the place of Moldova xd
Bence Éliás
So is Kaliningrad lol
7:30 the US also has a very elaborate social safety net, for the mega rich..
Provide free slave labour to private prisons.
Give huge bailouts to banks and giant corporations.
Allow big pharma to freely distribute highly addictive opioids.
Write blank checks to the military industrial complex.
Hand over subsidies to fossil fuel industry.
And so on and so forth.
Doesn't your collection of countries arrest people for saying mean things on Twitter and criticizing your government officials? Sit down. Say what you want about the US prison system, at least it's not a political prison system like in your crappy countries. Not to mention not a single European country has a notion of "double jeopardy" meaning if you are charged and found not guilty they can just charge you over and over until you are found guilty.
@@antikommunistischaktion Finland hasn't arrested a single person ever for criticizing anyone on social media, you can sue again and again but it will cost crazy amounts of money and wont change the sentence if you're innocent, not to mention that it has never been done.
@@antikommunistischaktion i don't think european countries do that. or if they do, not as much as you think.
I swear all the arguments against these fines are actually perfect examples of why they should be implemented in the US. "It creates disparity betwwen poorer and richer neighbourhoods" - surely it does the opposite? "The US has a high incarceration rate therefore it won't work" - the fines would reduce the incarceration rate? etc...
In many Countries, fines do not have an educational role, but a money-raising role. This ends up generating a system full of complex and meaningless rules serving as traps to raise more money that encourage abusive practices and bribes.
Many countries? I don't know of many
This video starts off with some pretty inaccurate facts. In Finland they use Kilometres per hour, not miles and Euros not Dollars....
Why isn't the title of this video "Why Finland has €88,000 Speeding Fines - Cheddar Explains facts rather than dumbing it down for some of their viewers who happen to be from the US"
You used post-WWII map to show pre-WWII Europe...
It's a little known fact that Hitler ruled two Germanys in WW2. That's why he could defeat Poland and France so fast because it was 2v1.
They wanted to keep the same map for when they highlighted West Germany adopting day fines in 1975.
American'ts
You forgot to mention that (here in Finland) speeding tickets under 20km/h (12mph) are a fixed rate which ranges from 70-200 euros, only past 20km/h of exceeding the limit is the ticket calculated with day fines
Suomi perkele! Torille!
lol
Eikä.
True story that happened in Finland inside of a week: my friend's boss was little heavy on the gas pedal in the morning while driving to work. I happens when you drive Porsche. Police had set a speed control point in the way that morning. Boss had little time to slam the brakes and slow down before they got the official speed. He managed by talking to not lose his driving license but the Boss had said the fine was "substantial". What we know from his finacials, it has to be thousands of euros easily. Could prob reach low 5 figures.
So i'm going to guess but that is going to slow his work commuting somewhat. More than a "few points and 50€ fine" like in other countries.
The fines are cool and all until a potential business comes to finland and instantly gets a huge fine slapped on them making them pissed as hell and probably cutting whatever deal they were gonna make off
@@darpal9424 Maybe they shouldn't break the law then
@@darpal9424 so they shouldn’t break the law as often and they wouldn’t get a fine that hurts them financially.
@@darpal9424 Yeah, this is only for small infractions. Large companies are still getting away with they money when they break heavily laws. Best examples are enviromental, finnish government is scared shitless that money leaves the country so they almost literally bend over backwards to facilitate large companies. Foreign companies have several times left insane amounts of cleanup for government to cleanup and still they don't fined or sued, at the same huge incintives are given for future mining companies.
When americans hear about "nordic socialist country", this is the reality: money and large companies still says how things are done. Workers rights and benefits have been slashed all for the benefit of the Big Money.
@@darpal9424 Day fines are for individuals. Companies are different.
Surprised that everybody is pointing out the map mistake but not talking about how the one guy said Finland is part of Scandinavia.
From Wikipedia; " The extended usage of Scandinavia in English includes Iceland and the Faroe Islands, the Åland Islands and Finland
"
1:16
Here we can see how badly humans destroy our planet. Remember Aral Sea? 100 years ago there was a great Moldovan sea which today is completely gone. 😂
Great Moldovan Sea? What are you talking about?
@@yumyumwhatzohai Moldova has been coloured like the water on this map.
Speeding ticket?
As a German I feel offended by the thought that you can limit the speed a free citizen is allowed to travel.
@Peter Zwegert
They've had speed limits in Germany for decades, so you must be offended all the time.
Answer: because rich people should have consequences for their actions
Why rich people have to pay more than poor people for the same crime? It's not right.
@@jk8557 simply put, because fines make people think twice about committing a crime. If rich people paid the same price as poor people when they commit the same crime, the rich can simply "throw money at the problem."
Tl;dr: We need people to be *equally* *discouraged* from committing a crime. Raising fines on rich people makes them feel the same way that a poor person would feel like when they commit a crime
@@jk8557 Because if you slap a millionaire with a 150€ fine, they'll just brush it off. Give the same to a regular shop assistant, and it's a much bigger relative burden.
What a FINE idea!
It's a Finn idea
Loving the map of Europe shown in the video. Happy to see East-Germany and Yugoslavia still going strong!
The map was correct (aside from some places turning into lake or sea) when they were talking about Germany because it was the year 1975 but they should've used an interwar map for the earlier years.
1:15 Nice map. Didn't know Germany is still divided into East and West. Hmm.....
Yeah they used a post-WW2 map to show a map of 1921-WW2 time period.
Czechoslovakiaaaa
He said in 1975
I drove 82 in a 50kmh zone and the police gave me a warning. Lol
8:48 I like how passive aggressive this was against america
Richard wolf is awesome
America does do allot wrong while preaching there superiority.
To the point that dumb people would rather have almost no government.
Finland is just smart
Let make sure that rich people cannot cheat the system.
Teenager: I don't have any income, so no fines
That's actually part of the Finnish system. The minimum amount of daily fine is 6€, so even if you claim no income you need to pay that much, and then there are some minimum total amounts for certain crimes, for example speeding on a moped (teenagers are not allowed to drive cars or motorcycles in Finland before turning 18) has a minimum fine of 100€ regardless of the amount of days fined or the daily fine, and for speeding on all other vehicles the minimum total is 200€.
All in all, as a Finn I can say it works wonders. The same kind of deterrent for everyone regardless of how wealthy people are. I know we sometimes see people complaining about excessive fines, but then again, they could have just made sure to drive according to the speed limit instead.
@@Egod3us I've actually hoped that this system is implemented in my county. It's not that it's unfair, it is the most fairest thing because even though it seems that it charge rich people more but it's technically charging them the same percentage wise
Vincent Tjianattan yes but ur changing rich ppl on wealth not crime in this system making it unfair. This is stealing. Giving an $80 fine to someone and three a $200 fine to someone is stealing on the more expensive person’s part. This is a very corrupt way of the government trying to get money. Y r ppl so blind to the fact that crimes r based on crimes not wealth.
America:if you are uninsured your hospital bill is $100,000
Finland:if your Speeding and breaking the law your speeding ticket is a $100,000
$500 is still amazingly expensive tho
I don't know anyone who has gotten that big of a ticket here
@@yummyapplestroodle You only know poor people then.
@@6891x What a damn stupid answer...
That's the average which is pushed up by those few massive fines, median is a lot lower.
no not when u make 12.5 mil $ a year
So people in America on welfare can forget about paying fines since they earn $0
They would end up with community service.
We aren’t the only nation with a welfare system, you know. Most of the nations with a day fine system have a welfare system, as well. Putting aside the fact that you can get welfare without earning $0 (you’re thinking of unemployment benefits), if there was such a glaring exploit of the system it wouldn’t be as successful as it is.
There is still a minimum amount
There's a minimum day fine. In the case of Finland, it's 6 € per day fine.
The rich won't go for that, during the water shortages in L.A. a movie star said she could afford to pay and still have a beautiful lawn!
Can you use the metric system? Like almost all of us? Also can you get your maps correct? What kind of research do you actually do there?
That map was interesting indeed, I'd actually have been fine with it if they had picked a map with the territories established by the Treaty of Versailles (the 1919 one) and Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. But picking a map what to me appeared to be a map from the Soviet era when Germany was still split up into two parts seems a bit wrong. At least the countries highlighted for where it was introduced didn't change significantly when it came to their borders for the first time they used that map around the 1 minute mark.
Later on using it for the introduction in Germany as well though, that seemed truly weird.
American company with primarily American viewers. If it bothers you then you are welcome to watch videos made by your own nations companies.
@@whydontyouhandledeez American companies are allowed to know stuff too. And shouldn't make their viewers dumber.
@@Finnec123 I had no idea imperial units had been linked to intelligence loss, mind linking me that scientific paper?
@@whydontyouhandledeez Was talking about the maps.
Why is Cheddar looking like a National News Broadcast
a system that punishes people of all economic backgrounds fairly??? the US would NEVER adopt it
Imagine having western and eastern Germany as separate countries on a map 30 years after reunification
For me as a German it's quite funny to watch this because here in Germany there is a huge debate about our fine policies.
For example: In Germany nearly 2/3 of prisoners are incarnated because of minor crimes respectively for not paying their fines.
So watching this and seeing, how much worse it could be, but also how much better it could be is horrible.
PLEASE do give values also in international units (mph and km/h). THANKS A LOOOOT !
Agree. The 100K fine was for going 75 in a 50, in case you were interested
And Euros!
This is the reason McDonald's was sued for millions of dollars for hot coffee. The lid was not secured, and the coffee was so hot that the resulting burn out her in the hospital. She only asked McDonald's to pay her 20,000 hospital bill. They refused so she sued them. She never asked for millions of dollars that was awarded to her by the jury of her peers. The figure was based on two days worth of McDonald's coffee sales. Anything less would have been completely insignificant to McDonald's. They have to much money and for them to care the fine has to be big enough for them to notice. In the end she did not get 2.7. she got an undisclosed amount of my money and the hate of all of America who gravely misunderstood the case and thought it was a sham.
Perkele. - Finnish man, circa 1995
If that were implemented in the US, 1/60 of my monthly income would come out to be $116. That sounds about right for a speeding ticket. Fine by me.
1:25 why is there a sea over moldova?
You seriously think that America will *ever* do this? If anything they’ll start charging poor people more for fines
Every fine should be means tested. And taxes should be higher for richer people.
Same with bail amounts,.
cOmUNiSt!!!
@@celestix_ Equalist.
Why does a hamburger cost $5 at one restaurant and $50 at another?
One caters to the poor and the other to the wealthy.
The difference in quality, even if there is one, is not going to be ten times better.
@@TheNewsDepot good point
7:19 "Do we want more speeding past schools in poor neighborhoods than in rich neighborhoods?"
The solution is simple: Put a minimum value. If the day fine is less than the minimum, the person is fined the minimum. If their income is high enough so the day fine is higher, they pay the day fine.
I think it's confusing how you call the Finnish system of proportionality "day fines". Because you can have day fines without proportionality to the revenue. The word "day fine" just means you can choose to pay the fine or go to jail.
well its name is "päivä sakko" literally day fine so
theres nothing special
"The word "day fine" just means you can choose to pay the fine or go to jail."
It doesn't refer to that. It means that if you e.g. get fined 10 day fines the amount should in principle be equal to 10 days worth of disposable income. (In practice it's less than that.)
A better solution would be to abolish fines altogether, and to institute a demerit point system. If you receive too many demerit points you'll lose your privilege to drive; if you're caught driving whilst suspended, this would be treated as criminal behaviour, and the suspended driver should be sent to jail.
Bruh why do you have the Europe map from before 1990 and highlight Germany, that's not Germany today.
Because they wanted to highlight 1975 borders of Germany, which is correct.
@@palomyr2947 but they also used for 1931 when it wasn't correct.
But of course, the headlines don't mention that it's income-based, because of course they're okay with making the less billionaire-friendly system look worse.
Yeah....when I was super low income it one time took my months to work out how to pay a $200 ticket. Now it would be just a minor annoyance in the monthly budget - I might go out to eat a few fewer times or skip out on some small luxury.
"It's unlikely the US will implement day fines. It's just too different."
And, of course, it would cut into the near-total impunity that the wealthy ruling classes enjoy, and they have no compunctions about using the government for ends other than serving the best interests of the people.
Arrest warrents? That warrants an arrest...
1:21 "Finland introduced this fine system in 1921" the map: shows Europe with 1949 - 1990 borders.
This is one of the farest laws I have ever herd of, nice one Finland
Just cuz u earn more doesn’t mean u have more to spend. Someone with 5 kids who makes 100k will have much less money to spend compared to a single person that earns 50k
No system is perfect. I still think this system is better than our current fixed rate system
we have a welfare state in finland and child benefits are part of it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_benefit#Finland
Do drug dealers and pimps also have to pay the day fine. I mean, is it only legitimately earned income that counts?
If you’re unemployed, is the fine waived?
Legally, there is no difference if the money earned legitimately or not. At least in the US.
I'm guessing that if you are unemployed, then the fine would be proportional to what benefits you have.
If your unemployed, you will receive benefits around 600e-900e monthly from the government. In this case you would pay the minimum amount, 6e per day.
Keke Rosberg thanks for explaining. I was very curious.
@@Kimberly-wt1nu only legitimately earned income counts, drug dealing and being a pimp is illegal in finland and all income earned by criminal activity will be confiscated by the state. keke was right about the unemployed
47 days for 10mph over seems excessive... that'd be close to $2k for someone taking home around $30k/yr.
Edit: this is assuming net income at a total tax rate of around 17% (I believe you stated the fines were based on net income at one point)
I think it's just meant as an example...
Idk why they just grabbed 47 out of no where. A quick online search says it’s 12 days for 15 over and 22 days for 25 over. Still a weeks worth for 15 over seems excessive until you realize Europe has speed cameras everywhere.(at least austria did)
I also think just the way people live in the US makes things different. My in-laws from Austria and France questioned why I was even going 1mph over the speed limit reminding me every sign we passed(in the US) and my father said even in Japan normal is not going over the speed limit.
kunimiy212 in finland people drive over the speed limit all the time, like 55kph in 50 zone 87kph in an 80 zone and almost 110kph in a 100 zone but everybody slows down for cameras and if there’s police on the road with u :) but then again that’s only on familiar roads, so i would drive like that on my way to work or school but if i’m driving on a road that i haven’t been on before or aren’t familiar i tend to drive the speed limit since u never know where there could be a camera unlike on ur daily commute where u know every single groove in the road
@@Jepitty00 that's not really considered driving over the speed limit. You know cars overestimate the speed you're going as a safety measure, don't you?
Is it though? The results are clear when it comes to safety. The US has a fatality rate of 12.4 per 100,000 inhabitants, Finland 3.8, and Switzerland (with a similar income based fine policy) only 2.2 - the world's safest roads. Even when accounted for average distance driven (per billion vehicle kilometers) the rate 7.3 vs 5.1 vs 3.2..
Meanwhile in Switzerland (which has a similar income + wealth based fine policy): for going 285 in a 120 zone, 1.1 million CHF fine (the highest possible according to the law), confiscation of the vehicle used to commit the offense (I assume permanently) and at least 6 months in jail. Result: world's safest roads.
that's why all the zurich bankers go to drive in german autobahn
@@smithfinland214 true
I don't understand the arguments against this in U.S. You don't have to make fines "cheap," just make sure they impact everyone equally. Smh.
The system is made like that so that even the millionaires will somewhat feel the ticket and wouldn't speed again.
Maybe this fine policy will destroy the false sense of entitlement and legal invulnerability complex so common among the upper income and the rich. They tend not to modify their behavior since fines are just a tiny slap on the wrist. A working class person is far more likely to modify their driving habits since fines impose a real hardship or even threat of jail if they can't afford the next fine, something the rich never have to worry about.
The one thing you could argue with here is that the law is based on equality. Separation by factors such as race, gender or financial status may be seen as a direct violation of law ethics.
Easy solution to that. Instead of fine, just make it community service. Punishment is the same, lets say 10 days of work. But rich person not working in his regular job for 10 days will lose more income than poor person not working in his job for 10 days.
You are right. There are multiple different ethics systems in relation to Justice. It's not simple to say which one is the best, or most "just".
"Mr bezos you were caught doing 35 in a 30 zone i fine you 10 million dollars"
Bezos: "Thank you"
If I were a finnish millionaire I'd pay a poor person to speed for me then the pay their fines
we here in Finland , just do not work that way.If you did that you would be kind of asshole :)
You would probably be charged with a conspiracy to commit a crime if you hire someone to commit a crime
@@pahakasvivenuksesta2653 Stop being an asshole to rich people then
@@d4nkx549 What do you mean?
@@d4nkx549
Dude. Do the rich not need to abide by the law just as much as the not rich do?
Something I wouldn’t have thought of, but the big idea makes perfect sense.
Hey does anyone know where I can get offender A's job
Probably required a few gobbys
100 a day isn’t that much
Do the poorer murderers get a lesser punishment than the wealthier murderers?
Measured in loss of income (since they can't work while in jail), yes.
Let me bet the Nth person to say "you spelled warrant wrong"
If you are under the Regan theory that punishment is the key to reducing crime, then you should love day fines, because they ensure that everyone feels the same deterrence.
4:41 1946 called, they want their map back
I wonder if Yugoslavia will consider implementing day fines
The US works backwards compared to the forwardness of other countries. I like the idea of day fines.