Warhammer The Old World - Warriors of Chaos Vs The Kingdom of Bretonnia - The Free Council
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- Опубліковано 2 бер 2024
- Join The Chieftain and The Duke in this 2000 point game of The Old World between the marauding tribes of the Warriors of Chaos and the noble Kingdom of Bretonnia
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Warriors of Chaos
Characters
Grughal Blightborne - Daemon Prince, Level 4, Lore of Daemonology, Mark of Nurgle, Wings, Biting Blade, Spell Familiar, Charmed Shield, Extra Arm, Heavy Armour
Kardak the Cruel - Exalted Champion, Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Nurgle, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, 2 Favours of the Gods, Enchanting Aura, Heavy Armour, Shield
Core
15 Chaos Warriors, Full Command, Mark of Khorne, Sword of Swiftness, Banner of Iron Resolve, Shields
15 Chaos Marauders, Full Command, Mark of Khorne, Flails
Special
18 Chosen Chaos Warriors, Mark of Nurgle, Drilled, Full Plate Armour, Halberds
4 Chaos Trolls,
Rare
Hellcannon
The Kingdom of Bretonnia
Characters
Lionel Le Ancrer - Duke, Virtue of the Knightly Temper, Ogre Blade, Healing Potion, Shield, Hippogryph, Barding
Darcy - Prophetess, Level 4, Lore of Battle Magic, 2 Dispel Scrolls, Bretonnian Warhorse
Andre - Paladin, Battle Standard Bearer, Virtue of Audacity, Giant Blade, Gauntlet of the Duel, Crusader's Tapestry, The Crusader's Vow, Shield, Bretonnian Warhorse
Pierre Le Poisson - Paladin, Virtue of Confidence, Gauntlet of the Duel, The Seal of Parravon, The Crusader's Vow, Lance, Shield, Bretonnian Warhorse
Core
6 Knights Errant, Full Command, The Blazing Banner, The Crusader's Vow
6 Knights Errant, Gallant, The Crusader's Vow
13 Knights of the Realm, Full Command, Antlers of the Great Hunt, Banner of Honourable Warfare, The Crusader's Vow
Rare
6 Grail Knights, Grail Guardian, Standard Bearer, Virtue of the Joust, Obsidian Lodestone, Rampaging Banner
Models with the Grail Vow cannot refuse a challenge, you should not have been able to attack with all of the Grail Knights to kill the Daemon Prince.
You’re absolutely right, I’d missed that part. That hurts the grail knights significantly against single model units like the daemon prince 😕
"Veteran" allows you to roll any leadership test but specifies "A break test is not a leadership test"
Did we get that wrong? That’s unfortunate as I definitely knew that!
@@triplecrownwargaming I don't think you needed to roll as the initial test was passed, but it's one of those things were they made the wording convoluted.
falling back in good order doenst make you lose the blessing
This. 👍🏻
Yep, just noticed the little sentence in italics! Thanks for pointing it out 😊
Heads up lads, magical vortexes can't finish on units. They have to move until they are off any units in the same direction thet are travelling in. Pg 107
Great batrep so far, love to see more different armies moving forward too from the sounds of it!
Yep that was pointed out in another comment! I’d read the first paragraph but not the second 🙄 Will get it right for next time.
Hopefully some repainted Ogres will be making their way into the channel soon!
Hey it happens, there's a lot of learning and the camera always adds mistakes haha. Keep up the good work!
70 points for 2 units of vanguard dogs makes this game completely different as the warrior player would then have the advantage in the movement phase.
Push the dogs up. He has to charge them, he loses first charge if he has it, the dogs flee, he either catches the dogs or not, but still has to move his charge distance which then puts your infantry blocks in range to charge his lances.
Don’t leave home without them.
To be honest I think first charge only came up once, with the grail knights against the marauders. I think you’re right, cheap chaff still very much have their place, but I could just as easily have restrained from pursuing the dogs to stay out of the infantry charge range
Yes agree both armies way to few units for redirect, march block and possible flank attack.
Stunning armies. An army of Knights facing off against the legions of Chaos is also epic.
Im curious if you guys have found any optimal unit width for infantry or any truth to linehammer superiority. I'm hesitant to invest in movement trays at the risk of getting it wrong.
We actually did a short video on Linehammer last week that I’d recommend checking out!
As for optimal width for infantry units I think it’s really unit-dependant. If it’s a ranger unit without volley fire you probably don’t want to be in two ranks, so maybe 6 or 7 wide. If it’s trashy troops that you just want to hold things up then as narrow as you can get away with to still be in combat order
I've played a few games with different infantry types and 6-7 wide is good for hard hitting infantry, wider than that starts to get too hard to maneuver and you can lose your whole movement to wheeling.
put those chosen in 8x2 formation or something along those lines. that is SO MANY POINTS for a single additional point of combat res.
Still stuck in that 8th edition mindset!
Good and fun battle.
But that most have been the most cowardly Brettonian ever 😂
You need much more small mobile units to be able redirect and block march and if possible flank attack.
Goes for both armies.
I just knew I’d done enough to earn the Lady’s favour that day! 😉
I agree that the chaos army could have done with some cheap chaff, but I’m really not sure a Bretonnian army needs it
I am pretty sure a template (vortex) cannot sit ontop of a unit, it must keep on moving untill it pops out the otherside, like a fanatic.
It can’t be cast touching a unit but we couldn’t find anything that says if a unit moves over it or it moves over a unit that it can’t stop there
Page 107 ‘Some Magical Vortexes move at the start of each turn. If a Magical Vortex ever ends such a move over a unit, continue to move it in the same direction until it can be placed on the battlefield, not touching the bases of any models.’
@@calbion9164 Clearly I can’t read 😅 Thanks for pointing that out! I must say, the spells and magic section of the rulebook has got to be my least favourite in terms of how it’s set out. One page says one thing and then you turn over and it says something else 🙄
That does make me feel that vortexes are even worse than I thought they were. I at least thought you could use the ones that count as difficult terrain to disrupt units in combat, but it seems not! It at least wouldn’t have made a difference in the first round of combat against the Chosen as I also had the First Charge rule which would have caused him to be disrupted too, and the second time I think I broke anyway!
@@triplecrownwargamingThis has quite big implications because the 3 inch template, can easily end up bouncing over 2 or 3 units if they are too close and the template has no room to stop between
@@triplecrownwargaming you can however end your movement on them. you just have to take dangerous terrain checks though, it doesn't count as being hit by the spell like you did on chaos turn 2.
"Whilst engaged in combat, every model on the outside of a Lance is considered to be within its fighting rank and in base contact with the enemy unit's fighting rank."
If your knights are considered to be in the unit's fighting rank and in base contact with the enemy, then the enemy are also considered to be in base contact with them. I honestly consider the attitude of trying to argue that the Lance only works one way to be weirdly unsportsmanlike as well as just not correct. Base contact is base contact, the only reason it says "considered" to be is so you don't have to actually disrupt the formation and move your models up flat to the unit.
I'm a Bret player too, the whole point of the formation is to represent them punching deep into the enemy unit, not all throwing their spears like javelins to the central point.
It’s frustratingly unclear and desperately needs an FAQ from Games Workshop.
@@triplecrownwargaming No it isn't unclear. If you are in base contact with someone, then that someone is in base contact with you too. It really is simple.
@@liangweihao7932 I think the fact so many people, particularly online, have very different views on how the Lane works suggest that it isn’t as clear as it should be
Yeah it’s funny how all the Bret players see it one way and everyone else the other. Lol
If I have a Character in an outer lance slot, are all the opp fighting rank considered in base contact with that character and can direct all their attacks to it?
You might not be able to use lances on the pursuit follow up. The FAQ makes specific reference to discarding broken lances or spears to draw swords. It counts as an ongoing combat not a new one.
Sadly the FAQ isn’t explicit on this interaction, they’ll need to FAQ the FAQ 🤣
Because they also talk about giving ground in the same FAQ question we think they’re referring to that and have just picked a terrible example 😅
As the pursuit is clearly stated as counting as a charge we’ll be playing it with the bonus strength from lances 😊
Beautiful armies!! The only thing I noticed is the prince can't purchase a shield as he doesn't have the option to purchase a common shield. I don't know if you guys have agreed to play differently as I think that restriction is stupid as well.
I missthat from previous editions, but yes as it stands now neither he nor woc sorcerers can use purchase magic shields
I’m not so sure that part is that specific, but rather is just saying you must be able to take mundane armour of some sort in order to be able to purchase any sort of magical armour. Otherwise nothing could take the bedazzling helm as it doesn’t count as any mundane piece of armour, it just says it can be worn with other armour
@@triplecrownwargaming I think people are seeing it that way because it mentions specific pieces of armour when telling you the requirement of taking the magic item.
"Only a model that is equipped with (or that has the option to be equipped with) armour, a shield or barding may purchase a magical equivalent"
This basically means that you can't purchase a shield unless you have the option or carry a mundane shield. I think in the case of the helm, it's treated as just armour and not a specific type it just allows you to wear it with other armour, ignoring the name of the item.
I am very much against this ruling as I'm a chaos dwarf player and I much prefer the option to purchase shield for my sorcerer prophets but RAW I can't. Tournaments here in Aus are playing it this way too.
@@kinkymustard2301 I think, like with a lot of things in the Old World rulebook, it is frustratingly ambiguously worded. It absolutely could mean what you’ve said, but that seems very restrictive.
We’ll have to wait and see how the community as a whole decide to play things
I'm with you guys on allowing shields. Otherwisr my shielded Demon Prince is gonna look really silly this edition haha
I’ve been finding charging really weird between single models. You need to maximize bases but also take the shortest distance, which in most cases means two models, according to the rules, should be clipping each other lol. How have you guys been playing this?
Thanks for the report!
This sounds like a question generically about charges, a single entity model acts the same as a whole unit in this regard. Assuming they are the same base size the maximum contact would be 3v1. I had to reread the charge stipulations multiple times and I've found that just rolling it into one statement makes the most sense to me.
"You must bring as many units into base to base contact as possible while moving the shortest distance and wheeling the minimum amount in order to achieve this while still being able to complete the charge."
It’s quite hard to explain but we think, you must move by the shortest possible distance while maximising. Now for units vs unit this is relatively easy a lot of the time. When to single model vs single model we think it basically means you can’t move further during your charge, say to the opposite corner of the enemy base to give yourself a favourable overrun. Because you must move by the shortest distance possible and you’re not maximising anymore by doing that
@@triplecrownwargamingI suppose my question is more about the horrible aesthetic of following the charge rules literally for model vs model. For example a dragon vs a lone character on foot. Very often, the shortest charge distance, while maximizing bases in contact is going to lead to a single model just clipping in corner to corner contact with the dragon. There is nothing in the rules that says you need to maximize center to center. Because technically this is the shortest distance while maximizing bases in contact, the end result of these kinds of charges is corner to corner contact.
Hopefully that makes sense without a diagram!
It just seems like the charging rules are a bit half baked and they didn't have someone play test some of it. I'm sure no one wants to see corner to corner monster vs monster charges everywhere.
@@SanFranSicko Ah yes, I see what you mean! I think you often saw that, at least in very competitive games, in 8th edition anyway because the charger was trying to get a favourable overrun or such so I don’t mind that too much. Plus, I don’t think you’ll see that sort of thing all the time because you also have to move in as straight a line as possible, so if you’re angled more towards the centre of the opponents base that’s where you’d end up, as long as you don’t have to wheel to avoid a unit/terrain etc.
Why take the burning banner and why take the banner of honorable combat? Doesnt seem to have any use vs WoC. Cheers for battle report!
Partly because we don’t always know what armies were going to be fighting, but the burning banner would’ve been great against the trolls. But also partly because I had to hit 660 points of core 😅 I was meant to split the KotR into a Lance of 6 and a Lance of 7 but didn’t have enough painted movement trays, hence the large unit I had to run with!
bretonnia must necessarily field a unit of men at arm or pesant bowmen
We were using the Errantry Crusade list, not the Grand Army composition so no requirement for any peasants 😊
Normal gw turns an old bottom tier army to top again
To be fair, with the devastating charge and virtues not coming out of their magic item allowance additions that we gave them in 8th I had a lot of success with my Bretonnians.
But of course those weren’t GW rules and they have definitely been given a huge boost in TOW
Why so serious?
There’s lots of very important decisions being made! This isn’t just some game of toy soldiers!
I jest of course 😉 We hope you guys watching had as much of a laugh as we did playing!
I like a calm and serious presentation while the battle being friendly and fun 😊
I don't know what the sense of this "battle report" was. Just shoving units into each other. No chaffing, chaff units did not even existed, no real tactic. Game decided after deployment.
I think you should make it more interesting thou.
I think if the Hellcannon actually did something it might have been a bit more interesting 😅 But hopefully it was still at least reasonably enjoyable to watch 😊
This "Z" in the miniature seems politically incorrect these days.