【I'm Just A Kid | Spottedleaf AMV/MEME | TW IN DESC】
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- TW FOR IMPLIED GR*OMING & P*DOPHILIA
Warning for a bit of flashing and shaking images
First things first, i wanna give HUGE inspiration credits to this pmv made by FS Ley: • "Me & My Husband" - Wa...
As you can probably tell, i took a lot of inspiration for the symbolism!
AMEN this bad boy is FINALLY done
When i got this idea i intended for this to be just another animation meme but i accidentally added full backgrounds and shading to literally everything that it. literally just became an amv lol. Never thought i'd actually sit down and complete a full amv,, i mean this isn't particularly that long, but still!
Had a lot of fun with the animation for once. Tried out storyboarding everything first + lining markings for coloring and BOY did that help a lot lol
Anyways, Spottedleaf's Heart is canon go fuck yourself!
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[Other Info]
Song - Teenage Pregnancy
Outro Song - • t-fest x scriptonite -...
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#warriors #warriorcats #spottedleaf
They really revealed why thistleclaw really went to the dark forest in this book-
He did also abuse other kits as in his son and Tigerpaw and Tiny. Not only that! He supported the dark forest.
It was revealed a long time ago why he went to the dark forest
Spottedleaf's heart is just a small part of it
@@Serbian3 correction, a big part of it
@@leaf.moth.2193 not really
Thistleclaw trained in the dark forest,was horrible to Tigerpaw,ordered Tigerpaw to kill Tiny who was also a kit,blamed Snowfur's death on Bluefur,refused to let Bluefur take care of Whitekit or something along those lines.
Spottedleaf's Heart still plays a huge part but it isn't the biggest part of it.
@@Serbian3 he's just a horrible cat in general
I love how you progressively show Spotted getting more and more afraid of Thistleclaw. Victims don’t often know it’s wrong till it’s too late or after the fact, and I love how you show the progression of fear and hurt through the flashing frames.
Finally someone that agrees that Spottedleaf's Heart happened :'D
Man, I REALLY want to read Spottedleaf's Heart so I can weigh in on the conversation about it more accurately. I know the premise of it from watching a lot of animations about it and seeing people talk, but I need the full story.
i refuse to read it.. i dont want to read my girl being hurt like that..
I refuse to read it as it makes it seem as if grooming is acceptable. if you're going to read it get the book second hand.
I have a pdf you could use so you're not directly supporting the book
@@fanpet3912 please send the link! :)
@abba crap I was meant to do it a couple days ago but forgot. I'll absolutely get on that later today
Spottedleaf’s heart did not ruin Thistleclaw’s character, it showed the layers of evil in him. The red flags were right there you Thistleclaw stans:
-he lets Tigerpaw beat up tiny, a literal *child*
-if anyone remembers he constantly tried to scare the prey away when Bluefur was on patrol to make her fail
-killed Bluefur after becoming leader around 3 times due to his jealously
-did not let Bluefur help him take care of his son because he ‘owned’ Whitekit
-blames Bluefur for Snowfur’s death and is constantly trying to make her feel bad about it
-goes to twoleg place every now and then to attack kittypets
Thistleclaw is not a good cat with and without Spottedleaf’s heart
Thistleclaw NEVER kills Bluestar
@@xChijouChanx i dont think they meant litterly more like thistleclaws right here ->
Bluestar is right here
And thistleclaw procedes to not help her when shes being attacked stuff like that
@@xChijouChanx but I never finished bluestars book so idk
@@frostbite5900 Never happens in the book. In the original series, she calls him bloodthirsty, but states he was also a loyal warrior.
@@xChijouChanx oh hmm
I really don't understand the people that think Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf are okay together.
"Cats are old enough to have kittens when they're 6 months old!" Not in Warrior Cats. When kits are painted as babies/kids, apprentices as teenagers, and Warriors as adults, it's not okay at all. In these books the cats are humanized. Plus, in a scene in "Spottedleaf's Heart", Thistleclaw was being nice to Spottedkit and giving her feathers to play with, so he started padding after her WHEN SHE WAS STILL A KIT. He only made a proper move when she was an apprentice.
"Dustpelt loved Ferncloud when she was still an apprentice!" At least he waited until she was a warrior! Dustpelt crushing on an apprentice was a little uncomfortable reading, and he definitely was not good at hiding his feelings. But he waited until she was old enough. Thistleclaw didn't.
"They broke up in the end anyways." That changes what Thistleclaw did... HOW?
"It's just a story." "Spottedleaf's Heart" wouldn't be as big of a deal if it were just that. Adding a predator creeping after a child in a kid's book was definitely not good. But what makes it even worse is that is discourages kids from telling people things like this or thinking that it's okay to see that creepy guy in their school parking lot and encouraging the idea that things will be fine in the end no matter what. Spottedleaf never told a soul, she only ever told Bluestar, and that was LONG after it was too late. Thistleclaw could've really hurt Spottedpaw. ALL predators hurt the child they're after. Yet this isn't shown. Fate magically worked in her favor and it all ended up okay.
"This won't influence any kids, they're smarter than that." You underestimate how fragile a child's mind is. An animator in the Warrior Cats community who was a victim of a predator themself said in Moonkitti's video talking about this book, said if they had read this book while they were still being groomed then it would've discouraged them even more from telling anyone.
In summary, there is no defending "Spottedleaf's Heart". It's truly horrid. If I could rewrite it, I would for one obviously make it about something different than a predator going after a kid, but if that part HAD to stay, then I'd show that Thistleclaw was greatly abusing and hurting her and being creepy. He was doing this in the canon anyways, but in a hidden way where only more mature people could detect it. I'd make it abundantly clear that he was a horrible, disgusting man. Then, Spottedpaw FINALLY tells someone like her brother Redpaw. Redpaw becomes furious, encourages her to tell the leader, and Thistleclaw is exiled. That ending would've still been not ideal, because there's still a predator in a kid's book, but at least it the situation would've been shown more obviously and handled more properly.
The people who think they’re ok are few and far between. The ones who usually say it’s fine likely aren’t old enough to understand considering a lot of the fandom is middle school aged.
@@Ravethecat12 Fair. I was like that when I first started reading the books too, and I didn't understand the issue until I matured a bit more.
@@PrimEevet Yeah, I'm happy to see someone made an animation about it. I never really liked how everyone just pretended Spottedleaf's Heart doesn't exist.
I hate to break it to you but the dustpelt relationship isn't that great either, as thistleclaw too said he would wait until spottedpaw was an apprentice.
"We'll only get together when you're 18" is a very very common grooming tactic. It causes the victim to doubt anything done to them before that point, as it casts doubt that it "even counted". Its a HUUUUUGE nono to say waiting till 18 is somehow better, because its still predation of someone who was a child, and its super uncomfortable knowing only the law or other's social norms were the only thing stopping them from having sex with an actual child.
@@siqxyre8473 I agree
Thank you for saying the book is cannon. I never got around to reading the book but it made me very mad that people just decided it wasn’t cannon because they were Thistleclaw stans. It’s ok if you like a character and don’t want to see them in an ugly light but you DO NOT have power to say something ISN’T cannon. Suck it up and move on.
personally i disregard spotted's heart as not canon because i dont really appreciate how they handled spotted's relationship with thistle- i havent read the book in a while, but im pretty sure thistle is only seen as bad after spotted finds him in literal cat hell, and i dont think the book really addresses how dangerous those kinds of relationships can be regardless of whether or not the abuser is a demonic murderer. it just... left a bad taste in my mouth. not touching that book again. in my headcanon, spottedleaf's heart isnt canon lol
for me personally it is very annoying when people just go, "it isn't canon so yeah!!" I don't see it as canon myself, because it's warrior cats, and you know the writers cannot write a decent story to save their lives. Though the amount of times I've seen people say that they don't like thistleclaw because he's a pedo, and then people trying to explain why he was a good boy who loved his wife, is actually kinda infuriating
@@biirdseed i totally agree- with so many young children reading these books, they definitely couldve done more in terms of exploring how to recognize signs of abusive relationships, how to avoid them and what to do if you find yourself in one (like tell a trustworthy adult)
yeeeesssss Queen serve that JUSTICE!!!!!!
people have every right to exclude that part of his character if they want to. They're allowed to explore him differently, especially if the triggering content upsets them.
The book should've been written way more carefully and with a lot more tact because of the sensitive subject, but it absolutely is canon. This is a really good PMV, it feels uncertain and sad, and it reflects Spottedleaf's situation well.
Finally someone who isn't ignoring Spottedleaf's heart existence.
The book was really badly written,I can't deny that,but completely saying it's not canon is ridiculous.
I haven't read SpottedLeaf's Heart yet, so I'm not sure this has to do with the actual book. But, I enjoy the concept of portraying ThistleClaw as a dog (or wolf, or maybe even a fox I'm not exactly sure but, anyways I'll continue), by portraying ThistleClaw as some sort of canine is fitting due to how he literally preyed on SpottedLeafs innocence. I find this feature cool when it comes to animators making wonderful amv's and pmv's about this book. (Also I love the designs! Very creative!)
I have to say something.
A lot of people are saying these two are bad, which is great. Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf is just an example of an adult preying on a child.
…But then a lot of those people go on to say Spottedleaf and Firestar had a healthy relationship.
Spottedleaf wasn’t as pushy and bad as Thistleclaw, yes.. but she was still preying on a child.
as someone that’s been a victim to grooming and extremely similar behavior in spottedleafs heart the writers managed to write it scarily accurate. Most victims, myself included, don’t tell anyone what happened to themselves until years after the incident. Most are threatened and others keep it hidden out of shame and fear. For me I rationalized it for 3 years. I fully believed that the behavior was okay and I was just in the wrong. Spottedleafs heart made me feel more seen in a way and I’m glad others aren’t just marking it off as not canon.
people need to stop pretending that it wasn’t canon, because Thistleclaw manipulated Spottedpaw and you cant just avoid it cause you’re a Stan for Thisteclaw.
0:33 Spottedleaf's face is perfect. She looks coldly at Thistleclaw's body. (Which he 100% deserves after what he did to her) But her face also looks sad in a way. All I can imagine is Thistleclaw's spirit watching her looking at him like this and realizing she would never mourn him.
Spottedleaf's Heart and Bluestar's prophecy really showed how Thistleclaw didn't care about Snowfur or her wishes. Snowfur wanted Bluestar to look after Whitekit, which Thistleclaw wouldn't allow. And then he goes and G*ooms a literal child after she died. Some people say (Who probably havent read Spottedleaf's Heart) Thistleclaw was a great cat. Probably for "Taking care of Whitestorm" and stuff. He really wasn't. Some people I've also seen are saying that Snowfur was G*ooming Thistleclaw, when they were younger, like he was doing to Spottedleaf. Its wrong because Snowfur and Thistleclaw only had a few moons between them, and they were both warriors at the time. Thistleclaw was very far into his warrior moons when he started going after Spottedleaf.
i was admittedly a bit nervous but its a great video, it doesnt downplay anything at all; I really feel like Spottedleaf's Heart was such a missed opportunity to portray the warning signs and specifically why it's bad, if the writer had only been more careful...
okay tbh, while it is kinda shitty that it was made into a book w cats, at the same time i think it’s a good thing to sort of..... include this topic somehow in a personified world like this? having been through it myself, it fucking sucks and its a very sensitive topic but it needs to be talked about, even if through cats wasn’t the best idea. spottedleaf, in this aspect, is like a comfort character for me and i think it would’ve been interesting to see how it could’ve impacted her, even if it would’ve been painful to read. many people aren’t aware of the effects of events like this unless they go through it themselves & the more awareness that is spread the more people can be helped out of situations like that and learn to avoid them. i hope my point is clear enough and doesn’t sound weird somehow, i wasn’t sure how to explain it exactly but i hope someone gets what im trying to say 😅
what im saying is that while the series is aimed towards kids/teens, sometimes allowing it to be read like that isn’t a bad thing because it can allow people to see the signs through characters and avoid it in person themselves. (I HOPE THIS DOESNT SOUND BAD SOMEHOW im not sure how else to explain what my mind is thinking 😭)
What do you think about Spottedleaf's Heart in general? I have heard it kind of brushes off the problem and tries to focus on Thristleclaw being in Dark Forest rather than being a gr00mer. Do you agree? I haven't read the book and from comments I have read I don't think I want to
you're right and i was able to understand your points very clearly, so don't worry :-)
it's just the book was written very VERY poorly. thistle and spotted's relationship is treated like its completely normal and thistle is only shown in a bad light bcs he trains in the dark forest, and that's what they split over. the authors just glaze over the fact that he's a grown man in a relationship with a child... not to claim that the erins condone p3doph1lia, but how do you mess up that badly
@@creeter882 oh shit, yeah i haven’t read the book so i had no clue it was written that way. in that sense yes, the erins probably could’ve done way better.
@@billcipher8645 i havent !! sounds to me like it was written horribly, im thinking i don’t want to read it either. the erins sound like they couldve done way better
ive always really hated this book. aside from plot holes, the story is fine, it gives us more of a reason for thistle claw to go to the dark forest. the thing I really dont like about it is the way it handles grooming. the Erins make it seem acceptable and honestly dont write the book correctly to where the whole thing just seems like a strange fever dream. not to mention how they give spottedleaf this whole backstory and then go ahead and have her be interested in Firepaw and essentially be romantically interested in him when he's a kid is gross. it could have been a good book with a message for its younger readers but its not. I really like how you portrayed it here. its so much more realistic and how you do spottedleaf's facial expressions, showing thats she's uncomfortable but doesn't know how to speak up is really good. (not to mention how good your art is!! like that shading and backgrounds are spot on!) awesome job with this!!
as someone who can relate heavily to Spottedleaf, its very important that we don’t shove the books situation under the rug, and instead focus on what the Erins could have done better. Ignoring is bad as well. People deserve to be heard, but not in the way the Erins wrote it.
Wh- no not the traumatizing book.
That book just like, shouldn't have been written. It's target audience is literal kids and kids reading it wouldn't have seen all the horrible things in it and might have even liked the ship. But nonetheless, I will watch and probably still enjoy this pmv
warrior cats isn't for kids its for teenagers and adults
@@eugene7313 But kids read it anyways, either because they're kids who don't care about the ratings or their parents bought the books for them, unaware of the violence. Even if that weren't true, teenagers can still be incredibly impressionable and naive too.
@@SkiggsMoDiggs 👍
@@eugene7313 If you go to Google and type "Target audience for Warrior Cats" it says "These books are about as child-friendly as Watership Down. Yet kids are the target audience." The books were ALWAYS in my elementary library, which is kids 6-11 and most websites will say that age 8 is around the age kids can start reading them.
@@eugene7313 The writing style is definitely targeted towards a middle grade (9-13yo) demographic... They're available in elementary school libraries and are in the childrens sections of bookstores. Just because there's serious topics in the books does NOT mean that they are meant for adults.
as someone who was gr*omed multiple times, it honestly makes me really mad when people try to disregard spottedleaf's heart. like yeah it happened. it was horrible and should have never been written, but it still happened. dont disregard it just because it paints your favorite kitty cat in a bad light.
*he groomed a child.*
cannot stress enough how awful it makes me feel seeing people defend him/disregard it and say it isnt canon.
what about the people who refuse to accept it as canon because the topic wasn't handled well?
@@hyalophora that is different than people saying it isnt canon because it puts their favorite character in a bad light. it wasnt handled well, i agree, and so if you refuse to see it as canon because if that i understand.
its the thistleclaw stans that i have a problem with.
@@bear4butch alright, I can agree with that
thisteclaw has such a long track record of being creepy and abusive to kids i don’t get why anyone defends him 🤨 he was rancid to whitekit (calling him weak, useless), physically abusing tigerpaw and tiny... and literally everything in spottedleaf’s heart lmao im glad people are finally portraying him in a deserved negative light ❤️ gorgeous animation and transitions in this as well!
CristalColors: i Will do an AMV about spottedleaf and thistleclaw
Me who was listening the PVM Me and My Husband and reading spottedleaf heart: waIt wHaT?
0:26 woah this particular picture makes me think about the symbolism. Here you can see Thistleclaw holding leaves in his mouth, sort of "eating" them. Could it be that it hints about his abuse towards Spottedleaf? That the action of "eating" the leaves is a symbol of what he did to the poor apprentice >< "Eating" someone or cannibalizing is often used in media to symbolize p%d%philia. This gets even darker
I love how choppy and how the camera never seems to want to stay still. It gives this sense of nausea and anxiety that goes well with what happened to SpottedLeaf
YESSSS I CANT WAIT TO SEE IT FINISHED ITS GONNA BE SO GOOD
I'm happen that you recognize the abuse Thistle did to Spotty but I with that God forsaken book was never written for children, but I'm excited to see the pmv and see how you portray it.
Edit: I LOVE IT, the art is beautiful and the animation is smooth, I also like how you mention Fire too! 100/10
FORSAKEN** PLEASE SPELL CHECK AHAHAHHA (this honestly isn't meant as an insult I just REALLY don't want people getting the wrong impression)
@@kailynnm9243 Phone corrected it while I was writing it, and mk.
I really like the fan theory that Redtail and Whitestorm found out about what he was doing and killed Thistleclaw out of anger then they made it look like other cats murderd him. Also to add to the theory Bluestar figured out what Redtail and Whitestorm did and helped them cover it up (because of her past with Thistleclaw and to protect her nephew)
Finally someone who agrees spottedleafs heart happened no one does because "ThistlEclAw iS sO goOd anD sTuff" that's what they say and "hE wAs misunderstooD" But no he's just a disgusting cat and selfish and I Don't see how anyone notices that besides for me? Like Everyone hates Spottedleaf and says its gross no Thistleclaw is gross and Spottedleaf was a good character besides for her wanting firestar I think that ruined her
I agree, Spottedleaf wanting Firepaw ruined her. But behind that I can also say that maybe she thought that was normal??? Like how people usually do when they are a child they are treated some way from people. ( Ex: I thought it was normal for my dad to take the locks and doorknobs off the bathroom or my bedroom and stand outside them but I [ 15 ] realize that it’s not ) so in my opinion Spottedleaf is a lovable character
@@milks-thoughts agreed
its just about how it was written. spottedpaw never realized that it was wrong and only broke up with thistle because he trained in the dark forest. its a book for kids so maybe encourage them to speak up about 4bus3 and stuff
i really like spotted leaf, i don’t understand why people hate her..
The problem is that people aren’t saying that they don’t consider the book canon because of the poor way the book handles the topic, but because they’re mad about a character who’s always been portrayed negatively in a way they don’t like. It’s incredibly awful thinking.
I love this, the song and the way you defidently see her as a child slowly realizing this is all wrong. This and “Me and My Husband” is great for opening eyes even more to Spottedleaf’s Heart. Thank you!
I'm glad someone is acknowledging that Spottedleaf's Heart happened even though it's messed up so many serious stuff lol! Also this just highlights how Thristleclaw affects both Spottedleaf and kind of Bluefur at the same time. While it's a bit umcomfortable to see Thistleclaw with little Spottedpaw it's shows how much it could mess up a characters mind set. : ( So good work!! >:D
I feel like this book touches on how everyone picked on spottedleaf for liking Firepaw with how Thistleclaw groomed her at a young age so for her it didn’t really seem too farfetched when it came to firepaw. And it also gives more insight as to how thistle was a horrible cat and why he deserved to be sent to the dark forest; basically validating Bluestar’s hate for him. Thistleclaw shouldn’t be allowed near children cause he either abuses them (scourge/tiny, Tigerpaw/Tigerstar and cause some trauma to his own kid I’m sure) or is attracted to them.
I just wish people didn’t trash on this book as hard as they do because of its theme. I feel like not only does it touch on realistic material and gives reasoning for why Bluestar wasn’t really phased by his death and such but also the fact that the readers are growing up with the books and as we get older I feel like the content just gets more mature with us and I love that.
@Anna Dorozynski Ah sorry, that's a common misconception! According to spottedleafs honest answer she was attracted to him while he was still an apprentice, and she appears in his dreams when hes only 9 moons old, which isnt much older than spotted was when thistle went after her.
I've never read this book, but it truly feels so unsettling, and this conveys it so well! 0:22 genuinely gave me chills, the way Thistleclaw feels downright a creepy presence is everything.
Also the way Bluestar has blood dripping for her chin :) I see the implication and I am not against it
People: thistleclaw is a good guy!! He’s just misunderstood🥺
Thistleclaw:
ugh thank you finally someone who portrays thistleclaw as the piece of shit as he is. spottedleaf’s heart is canon and people constantly pretending it isn’t so they can keep worshipping a cat who is literally a predator makes me so uneasy. also! the inclusion of firestar! i feel like people so often overlook just how creepy spottedleaf’s relationship with him was. spottedleaf had so much potential in my eyes and i really just wish they’d made her more of a big sister figure to firestar.
I left the fandom my freshman year (that’s 9th grade in high school for non Americans) and I haven’t read anything past omen of the stars or any other super editions. So finding thistleclaw was a predator is horrible
Thank you for making this!
Spottedleaf has always been a character I love and defend so when I saw this I was immediately hooked.
And actually recognising Willowpelt and Redtail as her siblings not many people do that sadly.
Flawless art as usual!
Beautiful PMV, amazing colors and art. Glad you're not ignoring this book. Yes, the subject is handled poorly, but Thistleclaw was showing signs of being a horrible cat all around, therefore I don't think he "didn't deserve such a plot". He's been horrible and this book just adds to it. I wish the subject was explained better because the books are marketed towards kids, at least I hope that their parents try to explain it to them. I mean, parents who know what the book is about probably wouldn't let their kid read it anyway... But then I heard a victim say that the portrayal is accurate to reality' cause they wouldn't tell anyone until later because they thought they were in the wrong, not the abuser etc. I think the authors should have showed the readers better that Thistleclaw was doing very bad things, since a lot of (young) readers didn't even catch the problem at first. Anyway, it's a badly written book with a heavier topic than the Erins could handle.
Edit: Sorry if the comment is messy, just like my thought process when approaching this topic...
I LOVE the size difference you made between spotted and thistle. A lot of art I see of them tend to make them similar in size, but the way you did it really emphasizes the age difference and how creepy it is. You did amazing, your artwork is really good :)
Spottedleafs heart was actually like, really important to her story and the only book in which I liked her as a character
I have to say I really love the way she looks down at Thistleclaw's body- like she doesn't know what to make of it, or how she should be feeling. She looks conflicted/confused, and I think that makes a lot of sense. On one hand, she's free now- her abuser is dead, and he can't hurt anyone. On the other, he was an important person to her at one point, and she liked him. And on a THIRD hand- she probably struggles to remember which emotions towards him were even real, since most of them were brought about by his manipulation.
Also, the way it switches back and forth between spotted/thistle and fire/spotted is awesome. And the way the screen starts swaying, showing her shock, almost like she feels dizzy? Perfection
To be honest, I have mixed feelings towards this book. I want to consider it as canon, but it doesn't handle the subject matter seriously, they even threw in victim blaming in the book (Ex: When Goosefeather told Spottedleaf she loves foolishly and will never know better).
It's just...so fucked up. I honestly think the Erin's should stop selling this book, or re-write it.
But uh, this PMV is amazing. You truly captured Spottedleaf's unease and her feelings of fear.
If I may give my two cents for a rewrite: make so Thistleclaw is trying to sway the younger members of the clan to support him as leader and leave out him and Spotted as a couple. Still a good lesson about recognizing adults trying to take advantage of young impressionable people.
Your Spottedleaf design is adorable JGKSHKJGS
spottedleaf’s heart was the darkest warrior cats book.
When i saw the scene with the red background my initial thought was, "oh yeah, the me and my husband pmv. Crystal probably saw it too"
Now with that random little thought aside, i think this book actually could have been alright if they actually focused on thistleclaw being a gr00mer and p3d0 instead of just "ohhh look hes evil because he learns how to fight with bad guys"
Because as far as i know it could have happened with anyone
This guy just happens to already be shown in a relatively bad light. Sure, they couldve still made him evil in other ways than just his relationship, but they just did it so poorly. It couldve *helped* some kid in some way to know red flags and how something scarring can happen
But this was just a poor excuse of making some bad guy look worse instead of focusing more on what was going on with spotted, hell, even the book was named after it!
Terrible, honestly
I really should have not read that book bc i was vary stuiped at the time had no clue what thistleclaw was doing now i know witch im surprised the erins put that in their books idk now that i know everything i cant see spottedleaf the same yk
can't believe the erins actually wrote this; its horrifying and this is a kids book,,
the animation is amazing! you're incredibly skilled!
I don't know if the Erin's did or not, but I wish they had put a message at the end or beginning of the book stating how grooming is bad and what thisleclaw did is bad. That if any kid is having similar interactions with an adult that they should seek help.
fun fact that makes this whole situation worse:
this song is called 'teen pregnancy' :)
This is amazing !! The art is just gorgeous, and I’m so glad to see more recognition for this book! Yes it’s disturbing, but it’s still canon. Seeing people say it’s not and just refuse to budge on that point cause it hurts a character they like is just :/
The reason why I say “Spottedleaf’s Heart didn’t happen” is NOT because I’m like “nooo Thistlebaby ;m;” but rather that the book portrayed it SO terribly and really should have put an emphasis on how terrible Thistle’s actions were and how Spotted should have told someone, instead of really only painting him as bad because of the Dark Forest.
ANYWAY I really really love this!! The use of colour and imagery is astounding and really paints that sense of creepiness and unease! Amazing job!!
Wait, like the OG Spottedleaf that I know, or some other lazily named character from the later series?
same one from the first book!! there’s a novella that goes a bit more into her backstory.
THANK YOU for saying it’s canon and not excusing thistleclaw’s behaviour
o h g o d n o no n ot th i s b o o k
EDIT: BEAUTIFUL ART YESYYES
One reason why I feel like people say that this book “didn’t happen” is because of the way it was written.
Like they labeled Thisleclaw as bad not because he was trying to get with a literal child but because every went to train in the dark forest. I wished they used the fact that Spottedleaf (Spottedpaw) was being groomed better, like make that the reason why he’s bad and not just the fact that he went to the dark forest.
Reading this was terrifying because of the fact that she was being groomed was never addressed much
God, thank you for making this and respecting it as a topic. While I agree with others that Spottedleafs heart should've been written with more tact, having a character canonically get abused like this was important for kids to learn about, and I'm disgusted people dismiss the book just so they can still enjoy a character who has been a canon fascist and child abuser since the beginning.
Welps time to stay up for 20 hours ITS GONNA BE WORTH IT
I like Thistleclaw a lot. I like evil characters like Mapleshade and Brokenstar (BUT NOTHING COMPARES TO CROWFEATHER HE IS ABOVE ALL CHARACTERS IMO.) but after Spottedleaf’s Heart (which I haven’t read yet) they made his character not only evil, but disgusting, disturbing, and traumatizing.
It was fun to see what the antagonist would do in Bluestar’s Prophecy but in Spottedleaf’s heart he gr**ms a child. Spottedleaf was like…14 and he was like 50. Gr**ming and p*dophilia is fucked up beyond words. In a way I think the Erins were trying to show how that stuff is a real problem but the fact that she only told Bluestar a while later isn’t a very good way to give an example. She should’ve told Bluestar, her parents, her siblings while it was happening to make readers who are currently being gr**med tell someone.
I don’t really love Dustpelt x Ferncloud but as another comment said, he waited until she was a warrior before he actually made a move on her. Thistleclaw didn’t wait. He tried to use and flirt with a child when he is an adult. Sorry for the ramble.
Why-how- Are you stalking me!? I was literally looking up stuff about spottedleaf and watching videos about Spottedleaf’s heart and now this!? Crystal, you are amazing!
How did you know she was stalking you?
Initially from the colors and lighting of thumbnail I thought, what a happy nice AMV, but then I saw the title.. and the characters.. Not quite so happy, but I’m still really looking forward to the premiere.
The excuse, they’re old enough to have children when 6 moons old so it’s fine is like saying
Someone who’s hit their period is allowed to be in a relationship with an adult because they can have children
Especially when they’re are people as young as 8 who can hit theirs.
Do say, well they’re cats not humans
In warrior cats they aren’t completely like cats, they have they’re own religion, some have powers
They have a lot of the same morals
Spottedleafs heart is canon sure, but people that don't think its canon i can understand their POV, i mean not like spottedleafs heart was well written. But it is nice too know that starclan doesnt stan groomers
This is a PSA from me to anyone reading this, IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THESE DISGUSTING ACTS tell a responsible adult RIGHT AWAY grown adults doing this is not okay, your doctor should be the only one. As someone who HAS gone through this at a young age, telling an adult is the best way so serve justice. Pedos are disgusting and must be dealt with. I love spotted leaf’s heart because it introduces how nasty it is and how it can make a person feel. PSA done with, this was an amazing video
I wonder if this happened with him and Snowfur? (I know they were the same age), but I still feel like Snowfur could’ve been manipulated by Thistleclaw. This is just a theory. I know that “supposedly”, he genuinely cared for Snowfur.
Yikes maybe you're right. I never thought of it that way.
This Sure Seems Like An Masterpiece Already,Meet you All Here After 20 hours-,
Just gotta say, I liked the cut at the very end from Spotted's reactions to dead Thistle, to Fire's reaction to *her* death.
The very first time I read TPB, I honestly had mixed feelings for Spottedleaf. But after I finally read SpottedLeaf's Heart not that long ago, I honestly have come to appreciate her character more. I'll always wish she had told somebody at some point, but I guess the Erins needed her to hold onto that baggage for her own plot reasons?
It is a shame Spottedleaf's Heart was written so badly. The topics of grooming and pedophilia could have been explored in a right way - this book could have added a lot to Spootedleaf's character, while also teaching young people a lesson and telling them how to recognise when a predator is trying to manipulate them. Instead it was a horrible mess, that I personally would not recommend reading if you are not at least 16 years old.
I can't believe Snowfur fall in love with a character like him. And I can't believe Whitestorm had a father like him..
Guy: *Warrior cats is way too childish-*
Warrior cats:
(yes my second comment e-)
For me Spottedleaf had a hard life like she just died twice and lost her love and her brother.
I have a question, I haven’t read the books what did thistle’claw do to spotted’leaf?
this is honestly so deep and i cant get over it..i dont know much about them, but this is *dark* either way
btw what do you mean by spottedleaf's heart-
spottedleaf's heart is the name of a book
@@crystalcolors2229 oh okie dsjkfsdkjg i havent read any of the warrior cats books yet since i dont have them all where i live
also i thought you meant like heart shaped fur(around the neck) or fur pattern or something JDGKSDGKSDHKSDKh
My dear Thisleclaw hate culture, here we go
Now I wanna read the book to see what all the hubbub is about.
Thistleclaw's gross though, nobody can change my mind.
Manz had a mate and a kit and then resorted to a kit?
*A kit, man... It wouldn't be bad if she was maybe a year old, but A KIT?*
I can see he didn't treat her well at all either. Looks like I might be in for some abuse as well she I read it. Also he wasn't misunderstood whatsoever...
Legit blamed Bluestar for everything and hated her guts for no reason before mentoring Tigerclaw/Tigerstar #1 who- MIGHT I ADD -USED A DOG PACK AGAINST A WHOLE CLAN JUST TO KILL THE LEADER AND DEPUTY.
EDIT: been seeing more comments on the story and GEEZ- THE ERINS REALLY ARE GOING DOWNHILL HUH? I still do wanna try reading Spottedleaf's heart just so I understand her backstory but HOLY- IT SOUNDS LIKE I GOTTA DO A WHOLE FRIGGIN MEDITATION TO PREPARE MYSELF FOR THIS HOT MESS OF A BOOK.
I have now read the story.
It really isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be and I was honestly scared it was gonna be Thistleclaw like... Legit talking about being mates to a month old kit.
But... I'll tell you it was clear he had his eyes on her since she was a kit. He legit gave her constant attention throughout her life until she chose to be a medicine cat.
Even then he would glare at her because he was mad she didn't want to be his mate after seeing some horrible things he'd done.
He would outright nuzzle her and she even seemed to get nervous by how close he'd get when she was just made an apprentice. She wasn't even that far into apprenticeship when he spoke of being mates, and Spottedleaf even mentioned that it must be wrong because he's a warrior and she's an apprentice. He said he'd wait, but he still did proceed to express big signs of attraction toward her. He was also very manipulative. He took advantage of how young she was and he knew damn well what he was doing.
Not to mention he is more than old enough to be her father (considering she's younger than Whitestorm) which wouldn't be a problem, really, if he wasn't literally attracted to a KIT. It would be fine if she was a warrior, but she wasn't.
At 6 months though, cats reach sexual maturity. So the age gap isn't actually the biggest problem-especially since they're feral cats, but it's the manipulation and grooming and the fact he liked a kit in such a way.
IN CONCLUSION: Thistleclaw is a toxic piece of garbage after that.
NOW ONE THING: This story did seem a little off-plot to me. I would like to think of it as canon for the reason behind Spottedleaf becoming a Medicine cat, but it could have easily just been her wanting to be one.
Thistleclaw cared deeply for Snowfur and their son, so yeah this story kinda ruined that.
But in all honesty, I was never a fan of Thistleclaw to begin with. He could be redeemed, but he was just hungry for bloodshed.
OMG I AM SO EXCITED I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS ALL DAY, Spottedleaf was my favorite character when i read the first book years ago:D
Claim your *watched this at LEAST six times* ticket here
Spottedleaf's heart is so messed up what were the Erin's are thinking?!
LET'S GOOOO! SPOTTEDLEAF CONTENT! She used to be one of my fav characters (granted, I was young and the only reason was bc I thought she was nice, but still lol), and I was kinda sad to see people saying they considered her novella to not be canon? I never really understood that because... well, it's right there. It exists, it's official, even if you don't particularly like it. And yeah, I feel like things should have been written a bit differently throughout it, but it tells a terrifyingly real type of story, and it gives great reason as to why Thistleclaw went to the DF and deserved to. This is a great AMV and I'm so glad it was made!
Can we just think about that all of this wouldn't have happened if shadowclan warriors didn't shown up at the thunderpath
I didn’t know how bad it was until now. I feel awful and disgusted. I went on a rant with my friends. Why did the author do this?
I haven’t read Spottedleaf’s heart yet and watching this makes me feel bad for her, I feel like she should of tried to reach out to her friends or siblings for help. | 0:23-0:24 | Thistleclaw looks like he was acting as if he didn’t give Spottedleaf trauma from the way he acted around her, pretending it’s ok
I just wanna rant a second because this comment section is discussing these topics:
Warriors may touch deep topics like grief, death, and ableism at times, but Spottedleaf’s Heart is just disgusting. More specifically, Thistleclaw is disgusting.
The way he treated Spottedleaf was not only repulsive and disturbing, but she was JUST A FREAKIN KID. Spottedleaf was never really my favorite character, but that’s just sad.
No one should have gone through what she had. As much as this provides as a reason for Thistleclaw to be in the Dark Forest..it’s just revolting.
And the fact that Spottedleaf practically replicated this behavior on Firepaw, (when he was an apprentice as well), just…gosh.
Really makes you question what the Erins intended, how morbid and un kid friendly this series can be at times.
I’m pretty sure Spotted actually started falling for Fire after he was made a warrior, as you can see her behaviour change after that and she clearly wasn’t interested when he first joined the clan
@@rusttytoasttz
Well yes, but nevertheless she was still older than him.
@@linguine_noodle yeah, he would’ve been only a young adult and she’d have been older, personally I don’t like that. However they were technically both of age, so it wouldn’t be illegal, just a strange
@@rusttytoasttz
I see your point, it’s just that their connection was always somewhat abnormal to me (it’s hard to put into words, but the relation they had never sat right with me).
Yeah I never really liked Spottedleaf that much, but Spottedleaf's Heart kind of makes me feel different about her. Of why she could never leave Firestar alone even when she was dead.
I slow down the video to see the flash picture and OMG THE MUSIC
The song already make me unconfortable but it's way worse in 0.25 O_O
Thistleclaw disgusts me, the fact he preyed on such a innocent kit at that time is disturbing
Scary but it really does capture the fear and dysphoria of the situation and how it breaks a person. Flashes of memories with mixed emotions.
Very beautiful! Really loved the way you portrayed how Spottedleaf grew affected by Thistleclaw's actions and how much she seemed to yearn for her innocence back. And I see everyone's putting their two cents on Spottedleaf's Heart, so might as well put mine. Sorry for the long rant below.
Personally, I think my main issue with how the fandom reacted to Spottedleaf's Heart was that it felt like they didn't focus on the right issues. Everyone seemed more upset about the fact that p*dophilia was in the book to begin with than how the book was actually written. Everyone just screamed about how those kind of topics weren't "appropriate" for kids books, yet they would turn around and praise shows like Steven Universe and Avatar the Last Airbender, kid's cartoons with a similar age demographic mind you, for portraying things like abusive relationships through Malachite and Ozai, etc. So like, you guys are fine with mature topics in your kid's cartoons but not your cat books? There is war and straight up murder in these books, their not exactly pure to begin with. Seriously, it seemed like the fandom more just wanted to complain about their hurt feelings than actually critique the book. If you have a problem with the book, have it actually be about the writing than just it having something you don't want in your fantasy cat books for whatever reason.
Other than the fandom, I do think Spottedleaf's Heart did have some issues in that I don't know if the whole p*dophilia aspect was handled as properly as it should have been. Can the topic work in the Warriors series? Yes, as long as it's handled well. I am definitely not properly qualified to judge the quality and respectfulness of the book, but I do feel like Spottedleaf's Heart could have handled itself better than it did and that's what should be critiqued instead of whatever people are actually screaming about. Of course, it's been a while since i've read the book so in all honesty I'm working off of memory so I could be wrong. Still, hopefully I've managed to get my point across.
I haven't gotten to read most the books, but based off what I've seen/heard, I don't really line Spottedleaf, but DAMN-
As someone who knows people who've been victims of p**ophilia, I really sympathize with Spotted. It's a horrible truth to our world, and considering how human the cats in Warriors are protrayed, I'm not surprised there's at least one. I haven't read Spottedleaf's heart, so I can't contribute much.
The amv itself is amazing though, holy shit, that's some talent!
YES someone who acknowledges that spottedleafs heart is fucking canon!!! The community actually rubs me the wrong way whenever they refuse to accept it as canon because they like thistleclaw too much. Its genuinely concerning to me considering, in real life, that is a genuine issue. When a survivor of csa speaks out and those around them dont believe them because "they're such a nice person, theres no way!" "Thats my best friend, known them forever, I know they'd never be that way!" Especially when it comes to family members of said abuser refusing to believe it because thats their brother/uncle/father/son ect. And this is coming from a csa survivor who went through just that. No one in the family wanted to believe my father was capable of such things because he was their family! Because he was so charismatic and likeable!! So literally it drives me insane when folks in the community choose to not accept it as canon bc they like thistleclaw oh, so much and claim they "ruined his character" (as if he wasnt already an abuser to start with)
It's a very toxic and dangerous mentality to have and it's a big reason why survivors dont speak up. I dont care that this is a fictional book about cats, and I dont wanna hear "oh I'd never be that way in a real situation!" Because the behaviour you're displaying 100% says otherwise.
Hey future me, tell me how awesome it was (Also super excited)
Edit: THAT WAS AWESOME
Something that I think is interesting is how Thistleclaw crushed on a much younger Spottedpaw and Spottedleaf crushed on a much younger Firepaw…
I haven't read warriors since The Power of Three and.... how the FUCK could this get published???
people don't disregard spottedleaf's heart as canon because they like thisteclaw, they disregard it as canon because of its extremely inconsistent characterization. the book was basically only written because the erins realized people liked thisteclaw so they forced in a shitty exploitative book where they make him a literal pedophile just so they can point and say "hey look, he IS a villain! we told you so! now stop feeling sorry for him". i can't believe people still don't understand how problematic and flawed this novella is on so many levels.
Thistleclaw was never shown in the text to be a good person though? Even before he was portrayed as a child predator in Spottedleaf's heart, he was seen ordering an apprentice to attack a defenceless kitten. He treated Bluefur horribly, especially after Snowfur's death. And he was teaching Whitekit dangerius battle moves. He was always portrayed as having unreasonable levels of aggression, with only a few kind moments here and there, almost always surrounding Snowfur, and I feel like that's the only real reason fans even like him to begin with.
@@FloweryFruitFangs lmao i never said he was a good person, i'm just saying he wasn't on the level of being a child predator. you're straw-manning
@@ramentop I'm really not though? How is this extremely inconsistent or out of character for him? Thistleclaw is a generic antagonist, it's not like there isn't much to him to make out of character in the first place. You could make the argument that warriors shouldn't really be handling these types of serious issues, or at the very least handling them a lot better, but if all you are upset about is character inconsistently then I don't know what to tell you. He was written as a groomer in Spottedleaf's Heart and while the book is definitely not perfect it is canon. Pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to do anyone any good.
@@FloweryFruitFangs i'm definitely not only upset because of the characterization (which doesn't only apply to thistleclaw, by the way -- don't know why you're treating this as if i'm his defending knight in shining armor). the entire book is inconsistent and makes no sense, and the forced pedophilia just adds insult to injury. there have been multiple relationships in the warriors series with significant age-gaps, between apprentices and warriors, and even incestual ones, none of which have been treated as exploitative, manipulative, or taboo. the fact that they changed the rules to throw in a shock-value thing like child grooming just to 1). further the "evilness" of a pre-existing character and to 2). give another more development is fucking gross. fans of the series choosing to disregard the canon of a book that's upsetting, possibly violently so, is not anyone's business nor is it a bad thing. "Pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to do anyone any good." why does it matter so much whether people want to interpret it as canon or not to you??? it hurts no one. and yes, actually, it probably does do people good, especially people who are triggered by it.
@@ramentop
>there have been multiple relationships in the warriors series with significant age-gaps, between apprentices and warriors, and even incestual ones, none of which have been treated as exploitative, manipulative, or taboo.
This is true, and we could have a field day talking about the weirdness of it all. It never sat right with me that apprentices and senior warriors end up pining after each other a lot of the time. And this is further muddled by the fact that these are fictional feral cats, which makes interpreting their maturity trickly sometimes. But it’s pretty well established that apprentices are meant to be teenagers so…yeah. But the manipulation in Spottedleaf’s heart is especially in your face though, a grown warrior going after a kit who’s still in the nursery is very blatant.
> why does it matter so much whether people want to interpret it as canon or not to you??? it hurts no one. and yes, actually, it probably does do people good, especially people who are triggered by it.
Yeah, honestly this is fair. The book tackles a very serious issue that unfortunately, a lot of children still end up experiencing in real life, and it does it rather haphazardly. Choosing to not engage with media that could be triggering for you is completely valid, and as someone who’s been groomed before, I totally understand why many fans don’t want to acknowledge it’s existence for THIS reason. But what I DO take issue with is fans disregarding the text because it invalidates their headcanons or interpretations of the characters. I think that’s just kind of insensitive? Good book or not, a lot of readers related to Spottedpaw. And if you look around, it isn’t hard to find people who dislike the book solely because it makes Thistleclaw look even worse than he already is, or it messes up Spottedleaf’s motivations to be a medicine cat, or because it has plot holes and contradicts pre-established canon. And to readers who’ve experienced grooming or see themselves in Spottedpaw, it can be really hurtful to find certain corners of the fandom stanning Thistleclaw, Spottedpaw’s abuser, and then insisting Spottedleaf’s Heart never happened. You say that’s not the reason why people dislike Spottedleaf’s Heart, but there are multiple reasons as to why someone could dislike a novel, and this reason was a popular sentiment for a large portion of the fandom for a while. Looking back, I do think I approached your original comment misinterpreting your stance on the subject, but since you’ve elaborated, I do see where you are coming from in some aspects.
MIA CRYSTALCOLORS WARRIOR CATS POGGGG POGGERS BESTIE THIS IS GORGEOUS!!!! 🌈🌈💟💟💟❤❤💗💗💖💖💗💖💖❤💖💗❤💗💟💖💗❤💗❤💖🎀👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑👑
I love this amv!!!!!
The spottedleaf design are sooo amazing😍❤
0:19
Spottedleaf! 💚🌷
Gosh I looove this. The way Spottedleaf's character was handled especially in relation to Thistleclaw makes me upset but this does a great job at showing how actually messed up and upsetting her situation was. Nice work :D!!!!!
THIS IS SO SO GOOD!!!!! I LOVE THE LIPSYNC MOVMENTS ADN THE FLASHES TO HER AS A KIT WITH HER SIBLINGS!!! Especially the part showing Spotted and Fire, then her and Thistle in contrast. Damn :(
Each scene is beautiful I had to pause it to admire each one! Thank you for drawing Thistleclaw like the disgusting rat he is bless
When you check the name of the song
Oh-
Oh man i am so so glad you made this! I saw the teaser on Instagram and i knew this would be amazing and so important for younger fans!