@@ProphetGreg94 I have never had a continuationist refute cessationism. Best they seem to be able to do is refute straw-men since almost all the ones I have encountered don't understand the position.
Wow what a great preacher who is so wrong and blind. I have been a Hospice Chaplain for years and I have seen miracles signs and wonders. His denial and blindness hinders this abilities to move in the spirit.
“For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.” Romans 12:4-8 KJV The gifts still exists
@@me73941 “For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.” Romans 12:4-8 KJV Not necessarily miracles but gifts of the Spirit.
I normally like MacArthur but he is just off here. All continuationists don't believe that Scripture-level prophecy is happening. Also, the apostles weren't the only ones in scripture to do miracles!
God breathes through His Word and their is His voice. How can you even begin with God if you think He has ceased. He is our guide until the end ! John Macarthur breathes his own thoughts through the Scriptures. Cessationism is anti-Christ heresy
I understand both sides, being raised conservative and then going “too far” to the charismatic end (think Over spiritualizing things, false signs for money, (I was fooled. I never performed false signs). and prosperity gospel. These are not good and not godly) but I’ve seen it all. I’ve even seen other religions like Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness. I’ve sat in their seats and loved on their people and listened. And the ONLY way to reach them and have a lasting connection with them in order that maybe one day God would win their soul, is to be HUMBLE and gentle. To speak the TRUTH yes, but in love, with ALL gentleness and respect. I’ve heard it all...including new age and other religions like Bhudism, Hinduism, and other cults. And taken it ALL to Scripture. And I have something to say: humility will go a long, long way. ESPECIALLY With topics like this. This is not a salvation issue...if someone believe gifts are in effect today, or if someone believes they stopped...that does not matter to God as much as either the acceptance or denial of His Son Jesus.in fact, according to Scripture the ONLY stipulation to salvation is this: “Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.” The Bible doesn’t actually even command the “sinner’s prayer” be prayed to be saved either (although I do not deny this can be a tool to help lead people) but remember what God told Samuel the prophet in 1 Samuel: “Man judges the outward appearances, but God sees the heart.” I really do not understand the harsh words being spoken about others different than yourself. That is all it is. Different opinions. And Scriptures are being dangerously thrown about out of context at times to prove a point (but is it GOD’s point??) Not salvation issue. It must be worked out independently. I do not think it’s right or fair of a leader figure to cast down others based on something that is not life or death for the soul. A leader ought to be humble and pure of speech, not willing to be a stumbling block for any. This here is a stumbling block of offense...and not the kind Jesus is either. After years and years of observing and studying the Word and experiencing many different things, I simply believe when Jesus says in the Gospels “Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but this is that the glory of God might be revealed...” and when I consider the works of Jesus and the heart of God according to Scripture, I simply cannot box Him in. God is a jealous God (also Biblical) and He will not give His glory to another. Therefore, who am I to decide if He will work miracles or tongues or prophecy today? Who am I to judge that He would stop? I have found no strong Biblical evidence that the gifts continuing today would cease to give God glory. Therefore, I cannot say any of them has ceased. I am not “cessasionalist” or Continualist”. I fear the LORD and trust He is bigger than I can ever imagine and nothing is impossible for Him. God uses the sinner’s prayer just as effectively as He miraculously heals or brings salvation to a culture without language. It’s HIS choice and HIS will. Not ours. “Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit,” declares the LORD. I also believe He will fulfill HIS WILL. And it is not up to me to say His will is with or without the gifts. Personally, I also believe there are many mentions of the gifts continuing, although the very basis of God being BIGGER than me and holy and pure in His intentions trumps ANY “theological” statement that wants to argue Scripture apart from God. (I’m not saying that’s what’s done here. I’m just saying in general). Scripture MUST be interpreted ONLY with the lense of the Holy Spirit: the Author’s Intention. This requires humility and a correctable spirit-not just a corrective spirit. May God make every man and woman a liar and His truth prevail. This is mercy. That the clouds would be swept away and all things laid bare. Humility is the key to every Scripture...to be willing to come under the instruction of the Holy Spirit. Also, this whole little video made me so frustrated because of the pointing fingers and condemnation coming out of the mouth of someone I used to really appreciate. It did not persuade me either way. It gave me a headache because I see this trend far too often on both ends of the spectrum of Christianity. But I do not think God is pleased when we condemn one another. Period. No matter who you are. We have zero right to condemn.( Now convicting a person and coming to them in love and saying “hey brother, this isn’t Biblical. Let me show you why I think so. You pray to God, read the Word and ask for His help” this is Biblical.) But to be on a stage and point fingers is embarrassing to me as a fellow evangelist. and not a way to reach the lost with lasting impact. Unfortunately, he is doing exactly the same as many charismatic people do...pointing the finger at the opposite “party” if I may. But theological discussion ought not be “spiritual politics” but glorifying God! It’s not about who’s right or wrong. To GOD be all glory and power and dominion for ever and ever, amen! Especially since this is not a salvation issue, it should be taken with extreme caution and humility and “saved” or “not saved” based on belief of gifts being or not being used today should not be a factor. It’s ok to share our opinions. But it should be clearly stated as such. Not pitched as facts and every other way is not saved, simply because one does not understand it (and it’s not a salvation issue!) I say all these things in love and not out of hate for any sides here. These are my discoveries on the matter, so observe them if you will. but most important: seek yourself the Word of the LORD and you will find the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.
Anna, thank you. My greatest burden is to see people free from any shackles of religious constraint or charismatic chaos. For God is a big God, beyond all comprehension. Yet we are called to seek Him with our whole hearts, and we will find Him. He hides Himself from the haughty yet reveals Himself to little children. May we abide in Jesus and ask Him to help us understand His Word. God does not reside in a box, and He actually wants us to seek and find Him. He actually shared Himself with us because His Grace has made a way. In fact, Jesus IS the Way, Truth and Life. And we come to the Father through Him with all types of requests, questions, etc. he is personal and ever-loving. I’ve seen both a very conservative point of view and a charismatic one…although I hate putting a phrase to it. Now I do not identify as either reformed or charismatic. I have learned we must test every spirit and every teaching on either side. Because God has both signs and wonders and truth in Him. The Holy Spirit actually lead me away from BOTH. Because I was hyper focused on signs and wonders. Then hyper focused on theology. When the point is to gaze upon the beauty and power and love of GOD and all that He is. There is no end to Him! And to Him we should look and abide in and walk with, in part now yet shall we see clearly when He comes. Truly, He just IS. Even as God’s name means: YHWH: “I AM that I AM.” It’s actually amazing and so, so beautiful. I could really go on and on. It’s with excitement and positive passion I speak, no judgement of any kind. Simply I desire to see Jesus glorified and the rubbish of our ways to burn like chaff.
Very well written. I'm still trying to figure this out, so I'm digging and reading and watching videos. One thing I would point out when you say it's "not a salvation issue." For the most part, I would agree with that. MacArthur pointed out that many of these "healers" have bad theology. They are false teachers. I'm talking about the big names in the "healing business." I believe these are the people God will say "depart from me....."
Lord Jesus, I thank you for the grace that you gave me to be borne in a family with difficult conditions in Africa. You used those conditions to reveals yourself to me as a God who speaks, heals, who still use men with wonders and signs. I experimented your gifts without reading all the Bible. I thank you Lord because my faith is not only base on what I read but on the demonstration of your power. Thus, no theology can shake my hope. Lord have mercy of those theologian s who have never experimented your gifts and want to lock you in their theology boxes.
Amen praise the lord Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and to guide you. I would recommend the UA-cam channel Cleveland street preachers and follow Jesus no man no religion. Be holy and obey Jesus. Hebrews 5:9 “salvation is for those who obey.
Just make sure the "Power" demonstrated is backed up by SCRIPTURE and not goosebumps. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. The word is powerful!!! ✊️
the Holy Spirit never stopped, nor did the gifts ever went away. God does talk to all brothers and sisters, as our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, guiding us to do the Father's will, convicting us when we do wrong, comforting us in hard times, helping understand Scripture. The Holy Spirit is God.... so why teach that He stopped? He never stops working.... He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
There is nothing in the bible that states the gifts were only for the apostles. 1 Corinthians 12 4-11 states: There are different kinds of gifts, But they are ALL GIVEN to BELIEVERS BY THE SAME SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit is given to EACH of US in a special way. That is for the good of ALL. All the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. HE GIVES GIFTS TO EACH PERSON, JUST AS HE DECIDES. If anyone thinks to tell me to ask the lord for guidance and to open up my eyes to the truth, you ASSUME I have not asked the lord to open up my eyes and reveal the truth to me. You should know that I would have not commented if I had not asked the holy spirit to do so. One of the arguments of cessationist is 1 Corinthians 13 where it says (when the PERFECT is complete all the partials will cease). Yes indeed when the PERFECT is complete, the partial (which in part are the gifts of the spirit) will cease. Cessationist believe that the PERFECT being spoken about in these versus is the bible, since it came from God so the bible is perfect, but the BIBLE isn't the "PERFECT" being spoken of here. It's JESUS (THE PERFECT) and the new heaven that is being spoken here. When everything is finalized with the lord and this world, they would not be a need for us to have the gifts of the spirit because ALL WILL BE MADE PERFECT AND KNOWN TO US. HALLELUJAH AND AMEN!
@@emilyburgos2026 But the gifts of prophecy, for example, John makes a point that if they are authentic prophecies of modern day, does that mean God isn’t done speaking? Making the Bible unfinished?
@@emilyburgos2026 The gift of the spirit in regards to Apostleship was strictly for the ones who witnessed the resurrected Christ hence the requirements to replace Judas as described in the book of (Acts 1:21-22). Therefore, certain spiritual gifts have ceased. In addition, the Apostle Paul mentions about building the Church with Jesus being the cornerstone and the Apostle and prophets laying the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). The Apostle Paul continues in chapter 4 when he mentions the ministry of the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers in building the Church (Ephesians 4:11). The church is now in the erra of Evangelist, Pastors, and Teachers because the Apostle and Prophets erra had ceased after they laid down the foundation of God's new temple which is the church. If there is new revelation then the Bible isn't sufficient and it isn't a closed canon. But if the Bible is the complete revelation of God's redemptive work throughout humanity that was completed by Christ as described by the direct eyewitness accounts [the apostles], then there is no further need for NEW revelation through prophecy because Christ is the fulfillment of prophecy. Therefore, that spiritual gift served its purpose for the founding of the early church. Anytime there is a NEW revelation that someone claims to have that is beyond the sufficiency of the Bible, then you open the door for cults such as Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. I grew up going to multiple charismatic churches and even had "prophets" prophesy to me and their "prophecies" never caim to past. I have a brother who thought he was cured of a genetic sickness according to a "prophet" who was able to "heal" people and the sickness did not get reversed by the "prophet". Mind you these were different "prophets" that made these statements claiming to speak on behalf of God. I used to be in the camp of prophets still existing but I have yet to encounter 1 true prophet and after reading the Bible and gaining an understanding of the purpose of prophecy, to ultimately point to God's redemptive work, then I switched to being a cessationist. This idea of prophets ceasing was also understood for most of church history until modern times.
On that day MANY will say to me Lord Lord did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do MANY mighty works in your name and then will I declare to them depart from me I never knew you.
That doesn`t mean that prophecy, casting out demons and mighty works are wrong. It means that the wonders alone are no proof of rebirth, truth and living faith. Just like Matthew 7 where we first must remove the mote in our eye in order to remove the splinter in someone else`s. The same with signs and wonders; first rebirth and turning from sins and then we may received wonders and signs for His glory. First the Giver then the gifts..
yes brother johnathan thats what I said in my comment, Peter and other apostles were not students of the scriptures. but God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thing - 1 corinthians 1:27 -- they unable the comments because they know they are wrong -- -they have no theology to talk agains the continuist--- not even one scripture in the bible supports this idea
The apostles believed and taught from the scripture. They were following the example of Jesus and taught from scripture. To downplay scripture is to downplay God himself, because scripture is the word of God.
@@lonnieclemens8028 my friend please dont just believe on what people tell you, read the bible, study theology, arqueology, and christian history. i will help you this time please take notes: 1- The disciples didnt have bible like you and I have. The bible was written in papyrus, it was very expensive, and complicated to carry. The pharisees, the doctors and other, could use bible from the temple and they were the ones that had the bible (all papyrus), and they taught the bible to the ones who wanted to learn about God. This is the reason they were surpised that Jesus Knew a lot without studying: John 7:14-15 ¶ *Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 15 And the Jews amarvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?* 2- Therefore, show me one disciple besides *Paul* that studied with the pharisees, knew, and understood about the scripture before Jesus taught him? - Guess what, you can´t - Because there aren´t. -- How can you say that they studied the scriptures? with whom? who told you they knew how to write and read? Since you don´t know the bible because you dont read the bible, and your favorite cessacionist pastors dont teach you, i will teach you, so please take notes: Acts 4:13 *When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they marveled and took note that these men had been with Jesus.* 3- you might dont know, so please take notes most of the disciples were fisherman, not all of them, most of them; as you know you dont need a degree to be a fisherman today, let alone in the times of Jesus. They were not like Paul that learned from Gamaliel, and was highly educated - not Peter, John, and James -- Prove in the bible that they were schooled, and studied the scriptures, guess what? you cannot because they were not....Jesus, and the Holy Spirit that you dont believe he operates now, taught them all they knew about God. Luke 24:45 *Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.* and other chapter that your pastors will never teach you like john 16:13-14. Mathew11:25 *I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.* and Paul Said in 1 Corinthians 1:27-28 *But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.* 4- Who said the aspostles didnt believe in the scriptures? Who said the apostle did not follow Jesus ? you said it, I never said that, you are thinking wrong. They saw Jesus, and they were living testemonies that Jesus is the son of God, they died to show that Jesus is the Messiah. 5- you guys are the ones downplaying God, because you guys dont believe in miracles and believe that God will only use people that know the scriptures and students of the word of God. We on the contrary, we believe in the Bible, we exault God -- we are saying that God is so powerful that he can use unschooled people to preach for wise; he can heal the blind, because he is greater than science, he can do miracles with people that denied him and repent just like he did with peter. why ca he do it? who is downplaying God? He can use people that aproved killing, and repent, he can use this people to do miracles just like he did with Paul. why not? in what autorithy you guys say that God cannot do it? you are downplaying God when you say he doesn´t do it - you guys are putting limitation on God´s power, God´s will, God´s word (because he never said he would stop using people), you guys are doing this (downplaying God and his word). On the contrary, we are saying that we cannot put limitation in the power of the Lord. You guys think that God will only use the wise, you believe you are holier than any sinner, Luke 18:11-14, you guys think you can see but you are blind (John 9:39-41) - God can use even stones. Mathew 3:9 *And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.* Please next time use any bible verse to prove any of your points, if you want to use just your opinion, we talk about philosophy, not about theology.
@@lonnieclemens8028 Exactly right. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, he responded every time by quoting scripture. NOT ONCE did he respond with the ecstatic gibberish today's continuationists call "tongues".
I was betrayed by a business partner. And a pastor who I never met before called it out. Told me how I was betrayed and that God was going to take back what was stolen (I literally didn't know anyone in this church, so there was no way he could have known). He told me to put my hands out, and my entire body felt like it was on fire. The power was insane. I was crying from the weight of the glory. I've never been the same since. Filled with the Holy Spirit. I've seen God heal the blind, the deaf, and get people out of wheel chairs. God still heals today. And to say that the Holy Spirit would reside in people and teach them the word, but NOT manifest in the gifts of the Holy Spirit makes no Biblical sense, and you're essentially blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I don't care how well you know the Greek and the Hebrew if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, there is no salvation for you.
Love the testimony I don’t agree with the blaspheme they HS part though. That’s a bit strong. We all have different understanding of theology, but as long as someone has the essentials they good. I think MacArthur makes a weird argument that the miraculous gifts are only from the apostles. Philip had 4 daughters who prophesied
Even the devil heals. 🤘 He comes as the father of light. Not with fire in his hand and scary looking. There is a strange gospel entering the church of Christ. Feelings do not indicate salvation. Even the bible declares that. You are not a superior Christian because of miracles or Feelings. The bible simply says if we believe. Not if we feel.
That’s a little excessive, this man has served the Lord faithfully and preached through the entire New Testament word for word. Kenneth Copeland preaches the prosperity gospel that is leading many to hell, and he speaks in “tongues”. Which person do you think has the Holy Spirit, the one leading people to love Gods Word and righteousness? Or the one leading people to be money lovers?
That's it right. Mac Arthur can't explain away your experience, or mine. Joel specifically states the gifts are for the last days. I speak in my heavenly language, and use it daily. Jude teaches us why. This man is teaching the dictates of men as the doctrines of God. I will end as I started, Mac Arthur can't explain away the Church's experience in Jehovah's kingdom.
Well u right we can't explain ur experiences of but let me tell you something... If that man is getting revelations from God... Why doesn't he add these teachings to the Bible
So all Christians until the 1900's only had a form of godliness? The reformers? The puritans? Jonathan Edwards? Spurgeon? The early church fathers? Thank God the charismatic movement came along almost 1900 years later to wake up the Spirit of God, huh?
Power to do what? The power to save from sin and hell. The power to reach the lost. This is the power. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes. [Romans 1:16 NIV] 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. [1 Corinthians 1:17 NIV] 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, [1 Corinthians 2:4 NIV]
For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:9-10 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)...- Galatians 1:1 Paul indeed was an apostle
Yes, Paul said, "...having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Have nothing to do with them." (2 Timothy 3:5) spiritofthelordgod.blogspot.com/2022/07/have-spiritual-gifts-ceased.html
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message. The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given. Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts. Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
Let’s not just throw around false teachers around like that. If we all agree on basic doctrine it is fine but just cause they different interpretations doesn’t make them false John MacArthur preaches the truth about Jesus but his take on this concept is different but not to make him a false teacher
If that's your Verdict on these issues,then it's safe to say that even the gift of teaching ended with the Apostles.John please don't limit God's wisdom.
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message. The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given. Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts. Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
1Cor.14:2 is tongues that is not a language...."does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries"....this is the prayer language that you have probably heard before. When I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, tongues rolled out of me like a river of living water, but that was just the overflow of being immersed in His wonderful love. There are no words to describe the fullness of it, and you want me to deny it....but I cannot.
Hi David, I am trying to take a fair look at both sides of the argument. Some would say that you are basing your belief on personal experience rather than the word of God-the bible. That the spirit you received was not the Holy Spirit but a demonic spirit masquerading as the Holy Spirit as in II Corinthians 11:14. Non Charismatics would say that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is received at the time of salvation Romans 8.
@@lonnieclemens8028 Even Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power in Acts 10:38, and how much more do we need the baptism with the Holy Spirit? There is a difference between being baptized "by" the Holy Spirit as in 1Cor.12:13 which is when we are born again and placed into the body of Christ and being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ in Matt. 3:11, when Jesus IS the Baptizer.
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I agree with these guys at some extent, but I am amazed at how confident they are speaking on this matter, which discouraged me from listening to their teachings
@@lonnieclemens8028 Take a listen to Joseph Prince, whom I had never heard of, but was really blessed at what God has revealed through his ministry. At first I thought this guy is so young and strange looking, but he's just not religious. I decided to listen and I am glad I did.
@@davidhess1019 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” (Acts 9:3-6) I didn't say it had to be in bodily form. But you wanna repeat that again buddy? 🧐
@@jordangarvin9282 You said, "alive or risen" and should have qualified your statement on whether you meant in body or not. Your description includes all born again believers who have the witness of the Holy Spirit and God can call and send any believer He chooses to do whatever He directs. Furthermore, Ephesians 4:11-13 that the 5 fold ministry is in effect "till we all come to the unity of the faith.... etc." and we clearly are NOT there yet.
Please read this before believing in this video: If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow what changed for him not to do miracles? what amazes me is that they believe satan can do miracles but God cant, is our God dead? if satan curses someone we cannot pray for Jesus to deliver the person? if we pray, Jesus is not going to deliver the person? is satan more powerful? why would God be the all powerful and not even use 0.1 percent of his power on humans?, your arguments are anti biblical. just see how arrogant he is ´´ the people that claim to do miracles all have bad theology`` Second, he said min 3:51 - 4:03 ´´ if God was giving miracle power to people, the people who had the miracle power would be the truest, the purest, and most faithful students of the sripturest wouldnt they? --- just with that we could all see his arrogance; He is like the pharisees he believes is the one that deserved to to be used by God and have the power of God because he or the people he claimed studied the bible -- guess what,* All of us have become like one who is unclean and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags* Isaiah 64:6 For your information, *27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him* 1corinthians 1:27-29. Therefore, for your information when Jesus came, the ones that got to be his apostles were not the ones that were studying the bible in the sinagoge, He walked with illeterate people, and this is the reason why people that studied the bible (the pharisees, Drs and others) envy him and said the same that u guys say today -- *people who make this miracles are from devil* (Luke 11:15-20) but Jesus already warned us about people like you guys; He said * It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household!* Mathew 10:25. we can see he does not believe in miracles because God does not use him to do miracles, and he believes if there were miracles he deserves this grace. Believe that God also operates according to the need not to show off (1Corinthians 12:7) Last but not least he said min4:47 to 4:59: There were only 13 apostles with capital A: It is right? are you the one who decides who are the real apostles? i dont think so, but lets see: besides what he mentioned we have: *But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting:* Acts 14:14, and *Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.* Romans 16:7. There are more but it would be too long to talk about all of them. Be careful guys not to sin against the Holy spirit, which is saying that something that God did was made by the devil (Marks 3:29-30).
1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. Brother, I do not yet know where I stand on this subject but I pray often to be given wisdom and understanding of it and of all scripture. But I do know that every time I have seen one of these kinds of videos, the continuationists disagree and usually call the cessationists friends and brothers, and oftentimes, they are attacked by the opposing side as being Pharisees. I never heard him say that those who claim to speak in tongues are of the devil yet you make the assertion that he is a Pharisee and that he calls the works of God the works of the devil. He may be wrong, I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but we are called to love and do not have to have perfect theology in order to be given salvation. I love you and I pray that we can all find a common ground in Christ. Have a good evening.
@@jb2009BCT Dear brother @jared Brown, the bible talks about love and we know that God is love, but the same bible tells you the following: John 2:15-17, 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: “ *Zeal for your house will consume me* .” are you going to tell me that Jesus didnt have love? what are you going to tell me when he called the pharisees hypocrits (Mt 15:7, Mt 23:13-15, Mt 23:23,Mt 23;25, Mt 23:27, Mt 23:29, Mark 7:6, Mark 12;15? didnt he have love at that time? That´s the point, when you have love for someone, you dont accept people talking wrong about this person, mistreating his work, and ignoring his will, when you have love you are going to protect and defend the person, and you will try to do everything that makes this person happy, thats what Jesus did, and that what real christians do - That´s love! However, Let me shed some light on you related to what the bible says, what mccarthur said, and what he does: 1- The bible: a) the word gift in the original greek is the word (charisma), which comes from the word grace (charis) -- what am I trying to tell you? i am trying to tell you that gifts also are an expression of the the grace, the blessings, and love of the Lord, which is everlasting, infinite, and beyond our comprehension. b) the bible say that the gifts of the Lord are irrevocable Romans 11:29 - This means that God never repented and will never repent from a gift that he has given to someone. The prove of this is that satan still have the gifts he receive from the Lord, being even able to transform himself into an angel of light - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. So you can see that if satan still can do, that means that God did not take away his gifts. . The Lord could take his gifts if he wanted, and there is not in this world anyone that deserves to be without powers more than satan. c) There is not any verse in the bible that says that God our Lord took the gifts, or that there would not be any miracles or gifts-- There is not even 1 verse that talks about that.so your question should be, if there is not even a scripture, why do they say it? who are they trying to please? God? why are they talking something different than what the bible say? d) The bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 "Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- haven´t they read this verse? tell me something, has the Lord Jesus Christ been reveled already? when? where? and if he has not been revealed why are we lacking spiritual gifts? if there are some gifts and other are not here anymore we lack spiritual gifts, so is the bible wrong? e) Ephesians 4:11 "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." - If christ gave apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, why the prophets and apostles were taken from the list? why only the pastor and evanlists? hummmm because itsa their gifts, if hey dont have a gift it means is over right? of course No. The scripture says so that the body of christ may be built, my question do we as church we dont need church anymore? are we attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of christ? could you tell me if we have got to this point yet? 1 corinthians 12:7-11 *Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines* well let me jump to Z.... z) Last but not least, Revelation 11:3-6 *And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying* -- If the gifts such as prophecy and miracles have stopped already, how can these two testemonies prophecy and work miracles? this is the book of Revelation this chapter talks about a future that has not happened yet, so if there are no gifts how can they have the gifts in the future? if nobody else can use or have it, the chapter should never exist, because it shows that God will reveal his power through miracles and prophecies, if it doesn´t exist anymore why is this chapter there?. The cessacionist should be called, or become pausist; because it would be a better lie if they told us that the gifts of the Lord paused and will continue later, it would be a better lie. However, even after reading this verse of revelation, if you tell me the gifts have stopped, you are going against a scripture, and denying God´s word which is Jesus Christ; and thats what the cessacionists do. *What did he say in the video* He said all continuists have bad Theology. Really? why do you think he blocks comments in his videos? if you know you are saying the truth why can i comment and they prove me im wrong? 2 - why doesnt he accept to come or go somewhere else and talk about his doctrine? he never accepts. saying that someone has bad theology is it talking good about people you dont know? 2- min 2:30 - he said " if you can demonstrate that there are no apostles, then consequently there are no signs of an apostle, there are no gifts of an apostle." Really, now there are sign of the apostles? where is it on the bible? miracles are signs of apostles? prophets never did miracles? the other disciples (because Jesus had more than 70 disciples) never did a miracle? who said miracles are signs of apostles? Let me show you beyond my first coment, and once again that he is lying: Lets see: Luke 10:17 "The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” so, are the 12 apostles the only ones? of course No. See Luke 10: 19 *I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you* To show you more lets read Acts 9:17-18 *then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord-Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here-has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized* WAS Aannias AN APOSTLE? OF COURSE NO. Other prophets profecy, read Acts 21:10 the prophet Agabus; Who has bad heology maccarthur of course. the gifts are from the Holy Spirit not form the Apostle: 1 corinthians 12:7-11 *Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom..* The apostles never didanything by themselves but they were led by the spirit of the living God just like Jesus Christ: john 5:19, 2 Corinthians 3:5 *Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life* My brother the only reason why Mcarthur talks about the gifts of the holy spirit is to make money.he knows that a lot of people had bad experiences with many false prophets so he talks about that so he could have them in his church. and byuing his books. if he wanted people only to know about Jesus, he should give his books free download in PDF format. but he doesnt. he criticizes what he does, talks about money and pastors and he lives in a mansion, talks about woman and guess what? click on this link 5 htings you did not know about john mccarthur. ua-cam.com/video/olVVFfRsixg/v-deo.html My brother i could tell you and write about everything he said wrong, and prove you using the scriptues, but it will become a long comment. For this text not to become too long, I had to jump from e) to z). However, there are a lot of other scriptures that show and prove that the gifts of the lord never were taken away or extinguished by the Lord, however, if there is any questions, please feel free to reach me and contact me as a brother to explain you a little bit more, I hope our Lord Jesus Christ reveals his grace (charis) and gifts (charisma) to you. If God allows me i will be praying for you and for the church of christ, but not for the wolfs disguised. My whatsapp number: +13467187405
"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Eph.4:13)....We are definitely not there yet, so this leaves the door open for the five fold ministry.
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message. The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given. Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts. Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
@@lyp8942 Sorry, but all of your speculation cannot cancel the Word of God. You only regurgitate what some man put in your head, and has stolen from you one of the most precious gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Sir you limiting the the Holy Spirit limiting the 5 Fold ministry. People do speak in tongues of other languages. Tongues in 1 Cor 14 were not definable they needed interpretation You are making blanket statements like you know better than the Holy Spirit…very dangerous!!!
There were more than 13 apostles. If I can show that John is wrong about that, could that open his eyes to the fact that he may be wrong about other statements he proclaims in this interview? Acts 14:14 - Luke labels Barnabas an apostle. Gal 1:19 - James the brother of Jesus is named an apostle by Paul. This is not the same James that was a disciple of Jesus. Now, we don't know how these two men became labeled an apostle, but they were. Paul became an apostle by a direct vision from Jesus, and Matthias was chosen by the original 11. It would stand to reason that either an existing apostle could count you as one of them, or Jesus could call you to be an apostle just like he did Paul. Perhaps, the 12 named James and/or Barnabas an apostle to replace one that had died, or perhaps Jesus called them like he called Paul. I could also argue that Luke and John Mark were Apostles. How else could they write scripture? MacArthur's whole argument is that the gifts of the Apostles ceased when the Apostles ceased to live. He says there can be no other apostles besides the original 12, but then has to back track and admit that the apostles can choose replacements and that Jesus can call out apostles even after He ascended. As you can see, his argument starts to fall apart when you actually study the Bible. Jesus can still call an apostle today whether John MacArthur likes it or not. Jesus can also continue to do miracles through his followers, not just the apostles. Mark: 16:17. Also, riddle me this... If the gifts of the Spirit were limited to only the 13 apostles that John MacArthur knows about, then why would Paul take the time to teach those gifts to the Corinthian church in letter? When Paul left, there wasn't another apostle there according to MacArthur. Think about that. I'm going to do a deeper dive into rebutting this video on my channel.
I’m a cessationist because of the points he made about theology and character. Why are all the people who have “gifts” false teachers, heretics, lovers of money, sexually immoral, morally bankrupt, etc. I’ve been in church my entire life and I have never encountered a cessationist who was a decent person. Never. They appear holy but they are terrible people who completely ignore Biblical truth. I tried a Continuanist church for 2 years. I thought I’d found one that was actually Biblical. Nope. Leadership was dishonest (they actually wanted me to believe lying was okay) and covered up horrible things that happened (involving children). This has been the standard in every charismatic church I’ve ever been to or heard of. They operate more like Satan than God. 2:16
Why would Paul say in 1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." If there's no more prophesying and tongues? Why would Jesus say "you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you" ?
Cessationism is contrary to the Bible, the Word of God which is Superior above all the opinions and beliefs of scholars. Where in scripture does it say the gifts ceased with the apostles? Which gifts did the apostles have that ceased? Was Peter a Prophet? So Paul was not an Apostle? Is Paul in a different category from the 12 apostles? On what criteria? In fact the Bible says the opposite yet the same cesssationist who claim to believe all scripture decide to change goalposts when it comes to this. Why? For many reasons, some don't just feel comfortable with the scripture so they choose to discard it, for some it is unbelief, for some a painful past experience at the hands of false prophets and for most UNBELIEF! Spiritual gifts still exist TODAY and are fully functioning as we speak. God gave them for a Reason which also is CLEARLY stated in scripture, they are not just there for people to have fun and play around. However, I do agree that some have misused the gifts and enriched themselves because of that. Let's not make our own beliefs, brothers and sisters let us follow scripture not "doctrines". Christianity is not philosophy where you pick and choose what "school of thought" you want to belong to, Calvinism, Cessationism, Word of Faithism these are all movements made by men that divert people from scripture. Let us follow scripture as it is. *1 COR 13 : 1-3 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have (A)prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, (B)so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And (C)though I bestow all my goods to feed and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.* Wherefore I remind you to of God which is in you through laying on of my hands." 2 Tim 1:6 1 John 4:1 the Apostle John writes, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” The Lord Jesus also mentioned false prophets coming into the world, how so when true prophets exist and to make matters more interesting Jesus Himself was also a Prophet! though He was the Messiah.
The acts of the apostles didn’t end with “ amen “ . My pastor before he died said “ the reason it didn’t say amen is because that book hasn’t ended . Because after them came every believer after them all the way up to us until the end of time . Other books and letters end with amen but the acts of the apostles didn’t end with amen . Amen means to end a saying or letter . The Bible says in the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and they will dream dreams “ . God is the same yesterday today and forever . This man has blasphemed the spirit of God .
All head and no power. I've been healed miraculously more then once. What am I supposed to think...that the devil healed me!? God forbid! Jesus healed me!!!!
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. (John 14:12)
My question did John MacArthur and everybody else who thinks that God doesn't speak to you or whisper to you. What told John MacArthur that he should go into the ministry was it himself or was it the holy Spirit speaking to him? Or was it Satan? I think that's a fair question. I agree that the gifts of the apostles were for the apostles but I still believe that God whispers to you in that small still voice.
I respect this guy and listen to him quite often but totally disagree with this. If he claims noone can drive out demons or heal through the laying on of hands then he is misled AND misleading. Maybe he should check out Derek Prince. I mean who is he to say what God will do through people? Quite arrogant & self righteous.
I like McAuthor and think he is a man of God. That being said I was surprised to learn he is a Cessationist. The word of God is complete, no new revelation; that doesn't mean the Gifts of the spirit cannot operate. Now if someone says they have a gift of the spirit there should be some healthy scepticism.
Jesus christ sacrifice is still at work. Salvation, healing. The healing power and salvation will never stop. If healing is not happening then salvation is not happening. The same yesterday today and forever. Their are false prophets all over.
The most important moment in the life of any and all believers--in fact the most important moment in all people... That single most important moment will be when each of us hears one of two pronouncements: 1) depart from me I never knew you. 2) well done good and faithful servant. In that moment we will all see and wonder with amazement just how little arrogant judgementalism has served any man and how unfathomably great are the Father's grace and mercy.
@josephpchajek2685 Amen. You Bolster the point. Christianity is the only belief system in the recorded history of mankind wherein people will be judged for how we treated God based upon how we treat the least of these his children.
I do not agree with John MacArthur’s Calvinistic theology, I do agree with him that there is a GREAT cessation of the works the apostles did. Does that mean the Holy Spirit no longer works in today’s church? Absolutely not! But He is not working in the manner he did in the early church.
It seems problematic to me that one would strictly associate and assign spiritual gifts to only the apostles of Y'shua, when there is mention of many gifts being given to the churches, who are not all apostles. Where is it written that spiritual gifts (i.e., from the Spirit) are only "apostolic gifts"? Will not the same Spirit that raised Christ also raise us? Or is that only for apostles?
I find it enlightening that Paul could heal the sick and even raised the dead in the book of acts of the apostles but later in the apisles he couldn't or wouldn't heal his friend who was nigh unto death but God spared Paul much sorrow by healing his friend. Had the gifts started to fade even before the death of Paul?
There is no verse that says that spiritual gifts stopped operating. Time will come that we will no longer need it but the question is when? Even Paul Washer disagrees on John McArthur on this issue.
@@lilzachsmalls even if 100% of the people don't practice these gifts correctly, still it doesn't change the word of God. Culture and people change but God's word remains.
@@oxygentank00 yes it does. God's word also shows that there is a very strong case that these spiritual gifts were used to establish the foundation of the church and so that people may hear and believe the gospel.
@@lilzachsmalls what verse did you get that? If you can give me a verse that supports what you just exactly said, then I will agree 100%. If you are allergic with people using these gifts in extreme ways then count me in but this people does not take away the fact that Spiritual gifts still exists because no verse says that it ceased to exists. You just came to court without any evidence.
@@lilzachsmalls And the Bible is clear that you are to continue to seek the gifts and use them properly. But let's not be honest about that since it makes us so uncomfortable with our unbelief.
He is quick to label others as false teachers; but what about him, when he is wrong? Doesn’t that make him a false teacher too? Better to stick to what he knows.
Ephesians 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: The Apostles were not just there for the beginning of the church...they are required for the edification of the body of Christ, which is the church today...
Well ...they are 2 'types' of apostles. Apostels with capital A and with small a. There are no Apostles today (Acts 1:20-22, Eph 2:20 (past tense, you have only 1 foundation), 2Cor 12:12) So today you can have apostles (small a) but thats just a name for messanger. And ofc today you need pastor, preachers, teacher for the edification of the body of Christ. I think his point was, that with the Apostles (big A) some of the miracoules gifts have ceased also. Beacause there is no need for them, they were primarly to prove to others, that these were men from God. Same as with Mozes or Jesus (Ex 4:1-9, J 3:2) Im not saying he is right or wrong, but I think this is what he meant. Bye, have a nice day
@@shara4455 Sorry, I have been debating all morning and I am cranky. They do happen, you just have to get around the right believers and churches.... I grew up and spent much of my adult life in churches that denied the gifts of the Spirit and therefore we never experienced anything miraculous... once I left and joined believers who believed God's Word concerning the gifts all that changed... I hope that helps.
@@shara4455 Playing one against the other leads to a spiritual desert. You will want to experience the fulness of God's Kingdom and be in obedience where the gifts are concerned once you are able to find a biblical balance. It isn't either / or all the time out there.... there are plenty of churches who teach the Word and enjoy the fulness of the Spirit as He manifests through the gifts etc... God wants to be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.... Word and Spirit is key.
Well…if these people believe that some who speak in Tongues are doing so by a demon, then they also do not have the dynamic Supernatural power to cast the demons out. Mark 16:17 states both Signs accompany them that Believe. I submit here Pastor John MacArthur’s Biblical definition of the Unpardonable Sin, “…the Unpardonable Sin of the Pharisees in Matthew 12, what was that. It is attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit. Remember that, it is attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit.” Listen, anyone who states Biblical Sign Gifts in a sermon, states that all Sign Gifts, (Ephesians 2:8,9 about being Born Again), says Sign Gifts from 70 AD until now are “All False, All Lies, All Deception,” and then only 1 minute later in that sermon states the Biblical definition of the Unpardonable Sin…well he really is on dangerous grounds with the Holy Spirit. The Sermon is, “The Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit,” and all of you can look it up on GTY website.
@@TruthLivesNow Excellent answer. It is astounding that people who claim to be Christians will do the very thing they acknowledge is wrong. If you go to a bible school or seminary (I went to both and graduated) they will have you take courses on interpreting the Bible. One of their main foundational teachings is that you build your theology on what God clearly says and commands. It is called "Prescription". So when the Bible says "earnestly desire the gifts...especially that you may prophecy" or "forbid not the speaking in tongues" they try to deflect their disobedience (read rebellion) against God's clear command (or Prescription) and instead will try to build their doctrine on man made theology. In this case, they try to use history (by manipulating it by selective use of data and other research error (manipulation = deception), or by accusing the charismatic world of error and misuse of the gifts which isn't honestly answering why all the semantical histrionics and gymnastics to avoid the truth of God's Word and their guilt of rebelling against it. Unfortunately their arguments erode even further by compounding their first sins into more like deceptively misrepresenting those who they hate, (hating your brother is a sin and it likely exposes the fact that you aren't really a believer according to 1 John), accusing the brethren = satan's work, and gossip, slander etc... Cessationism is a false doctrine that really is a doctrine of demons. It isn't what the Apostles taught nor does it embrace what God's Word clearly teaches. Those who peddle it are deceived and deceive others... not a good look... and frankly, they will be held accountable for it.
I honor and respect Pastor John, but he is mistaken in the piece about miracles only happening to authenticate apostleship. Miracles and signs and wonders are/were not (in the old and new testament) simply to authenticate apostleship. They are ultimately to glorify God, to show His power, presence and working among us. Therefore they can happen today because scripture does not point to cessationism at all and even St. Augustine, who is highly revered by reformed Christianity, changed his mind about the supernatural toward the end of his life. Of course, reformed circles probably never talk Augustine's changed views because it doesn't fit their narrative. GOD'S WORD > denominational narratives
Those Who are cessationist have Never experience healings in their lifes ,I have Witnessed Miracles And I have Prayed when I was 16 over my sick nephew and My unbeliever Uncle witnessed his son Coming back as I prayed. When Gospel loose Power It becomes a Philosophy. MC Arthur has never been in a debate with a heavy Weight Apologist.
@@bishusalrai3196 Luke 5:20 And 24 it all depends how far you can believe You can lay on that bed and be saved or Ask for mercy and allow Jesus to set you free from the Bed and be saved as well.
@@24132juanjcr If I can glorify God better from that bed then it's just fine because my soul has been set free through Christ for which I am grateful. It doesn't matter how far you believe but your body has to die one day. The assurance of eternal life is what matters most.
@@bishusalrai3196 amen if that’s how far your faith goes then amen.. The word Salvation from the Hebrew word originally implies more than soul salvation but setting free of the other things Such as debt,and ,slavery and Give back what once was Yours,Land or possessions or childrens sold Into slavery the year of jubilee is Jesus in our life’s and he has Promised. Not everyone who desires a miracle will be healed under Gods Sovereignty is his Will firts than hours As Paul advised Timothy To drink Wine because his constant illnesses,Why He didn’t just Pray for healing as Is believe than apóstoles of Jesus Carry a Rain of Miracles as they walk.
It’s sad how many of you blindly still believe In apostolic gifts, is scripture not enough? Is the miracle of Gods providence through means of today not enough? U guys are so desperate for a visible gift and sign, but in reality, u deny and forsake Homy scripture which attests and witnesses these mighty works of God already
The Didache or “Teachings of the Twelve” is from the late first or early second century (after the last of the 12 died) and still mentions apostles and prophets. There is actually a warning that a prophet should never be judged lest you commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Chapter 11:4-8 “Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven.”
What I don’t understand is how can you say that the signs have stopped when Jesus said that we would be able to go on and do greater things? So was the savior not telling the truth? I think not. I disagree
So we teach that Jesus liked to work more in past generations than the current generation. So when we see healings and outpouring of the Holy Spirit we must immediately call it heretical and dangerously claim the works of the Spirit as being false teachings. This is dangerous theology.
In the early days of the church, signs of supernatural grace were needed by the apostles to confirm the power of God, especially considering that during that time, the Bible, the word of God, was not accessible to everyone. In the present time, everyone can access or hear the word of God through various media. The Holy Spirit continues to work but not in the elevation of new prophets since all prophets foretold the coming of Jesus Christ to redeem humanity, and that is already accomplished. 8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13, ESV)
@@iagoapioan8990 no Catholics have always been continuationist in a way that is unique from others. That’s why they believe in apostolic succession and that includes prophecy, tongues, and healings, and some other weird mystical things that have no scriptural basis.
So the Greek word apostle is used to describe the original 12, another group of 70, plus Matthias and Paul - and then 11 others: Apollos (see 1 Corinthians 4:6-13) Epaphroditus (see Philippians 2:25; “messenger” is apostolos in the Greek) James, the Lord's brother (see Galatians 1:19)
I was sick thank God when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior. I was not just saved but healed.. as i keep walking in Christianity, I've seen many other beings healed as well. But these people talk about things that dont even know. What a death gospel they have
1 Corinthians 12:29 explicitly says that the members of the body of Christ, some who have various kinds of tongues, are not all apostles. 2 Corinthians 12:12 is not excluding non-apostles from these gifts. And I’ve been a cessationist, but I’m looking into these matters more deeply now.
I wish for once that these “cessationists” would point out the verse in the Bible that they get that the spiritual gifts have ceased. They can't that is why. The people they use as charismatic are not charismatic. They teach prosperity. The gifts are still for today. Period!!!!
There is a Christian dispute that claims the Spiritual Gifts are not available to the Church after the Apostolic Age (Age of the Apostles). In short, it claims all powers, privileges, and proportions visible in the New Testament are reserved for a special few―not you, not me, not anyone after 100 AD. Cessationism demands that God is very much a respecter of persons and that every time Jesus Christ himself said “anyone” or “whosoever” or “any man”... well, he didn’t really mean “anyone” or “whosoever” or “any man.” The Messiah was just being hyperbolic. Cessationists reduce the New Testament down to a single supernatural event: being born again. Everything else is denied to you. This is nothing more than anti-supernaturalism masquerading as bad doctrine, or dogma. 〓 Let’s play a game and see how you like it. We’ll call it the Cessationist game. 〓 Next up: The Declaration of Independence: We (the Special Ones) hold these truths to be self-evident (to us, not you or your people), that all men (you don’t qualify) are created equal (except you), that they (the special people, not you) are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights (except you), that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness (none of which applies to anyone born after 1783). That to secure these rights (18th-century rights; not 20th or 21st-century rights), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (but you have no say). That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (you should just accept it), it is the Right of the People (again, 18th-century people―not you) to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government (one in which you’ll have no say), laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness (except your Safety and Happiness). 〓 One could argue a form of Cessationism-Denying clearly defined privileges in the Declaration of Independence-is what allowed men to perpetuate slavery up until the American Civil War (1865). 〓 Now tell me: is it still the Declaration of Independence? The answer is No. Nor is the New Testament truly the New Testament after insecure men get done redacting it to fit their ideological bias. God is the same, today, and forever. And so is His Love, His Son, His Spirit, and the Gifts thereof. 〓 Stop using your personal lack of faith, lack of experience, or cowardice in the pulpit to deny God’s Children the very resources and experiences He promised them. Your small-mindedness does not invalidate the shed blood of Jesus or the promise of the Spirit it secured.
Further, this is a philosophical word game. It's an unfortunate bait-and-switch. Many conflate the "Signs of the Apostle" which designate 1st-century eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus (such as Paul), with the "Gifts of the Spirit" available to born again believers.
Faith, Hope, and Love, but the greatest of these is Love. Thank you for allowing us to comment. All video clips by GTY, John MacArthur, and Todd Friel, (Justin Peters is the exception), have all comments disabled on their presentations.
"Forbid not to speak with tongues"... 1Cor.14:39... Exactly what many of these so called scholars are doing as if they have the final word on everything.
@@miguelescobar1338 You don't know what you are talking about. There are tongues and interpretation, tongues of foreign languages, tongues that no man understands, tongues of speaking mysteries to God. You must be one of those arrogant scholars?
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message. The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given. Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts. Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 This does approve or disapprove the stance on cessationanlism. This could all be show. Just a man saying things, pushing women, and women convulsing on the ground saying they feel something.
@@ShepherdMinistry well the lack of gifts besides tongues and very vague healings which are very hard to prove , I love pentecostal and charismatics but they use an un biblical use of tounges which Paul said theirs order for them in church. Simple church history as well proves the early church never really looked at gifts the way charismatics do. Charismatics and pentecostal recently started around 1900s when the exaggerated gifts that seem to have to purpose or sign was implied with lack of biblical knowledge. Both the early church and reformers never implied the continuation of gifts , and we know paul told us to keep the sound doctrine. I'm not an expert on these topics but I'd to hear your verses for continuation and verses that prove these reactions of the Holy Spirit and where in the bible the church displayed these behaviors
@@miguelescobar1338 1 Corinthians 13:10-13 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known From my research cessationist use this verse to prove gifts have ceased. However this verse states when “face to face”.. which implies the second coming. Face to face is used in other verses to describe God. It also says the perfect implying Jesus. There’s no other verse I know of that proves cessationism. For the ceasing of tongues what about this verse ? 1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. It seems this one talks about a prayer language people don’t understand . Thoughts ?
John MacArthur is a theologist . He is like the Pharisees who is denying the Holy Spirit and it’s Gifts. It’s not the Apostles gifts it is the gift from God himself to help save others so they may also believe. These type of leaders are the ones who leads many astray because they rely on their theology on own understanding and not God’s. Nowhere in scripture it says it has ceased. If it did then Gods words are not true at all then. This is a mock to God. Just believe in the knowledge of God and pray for his wisdom and knowledge so you won’t be led astray
D.L. Moody, and R.A. Torrey were Christians that believed that Sign Gifts are valid for TODAY. The Scriptures are presented well in R.A. Torrey’s books, “What the Bible Teaches,” “Power for Divine Living,” “The Baptism With the Holy Spirit,” “How To Pray,” and “Why God Used D.L. Moody.” Pastor John MacArthur rejects the Scriptures given by the first Dean of BIOLA, RA Torrey where he graduated from! This Scofield-stuff was clearly rejected by Moody and Torrey, and Cyrus Scofield became Moody’s biggest mistake. One has to know history. Moody and Torrey considered Pastor John MacArthur’s teachings false.
When you see or hear these strange words, continuationism and cessationism, beware. Run. You are wasting your time. Both of them are wrong, because there are no such things.
Thus Saith El-Yahovah the Elohai of Heaven, and the Elohai of the earth, the Elohai of Avraham, Yitschaq, and El-Ya'aqov, the King of Yisrael. "Cessationism is not in my Word”……. "Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-20 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and thev will recover' Mark 16:17-18
I notice cessationists don't like to talk about healing miracles. Their unbelief just won't allow them to go there. Basically he just trashed the names of some of Christianity's greatest healing ministers. I wonder he would describe Kathryn Kuhlman or John G Lake or Smith Wigglesworth? Why doesn't anyone ever nail these ppl on things like that!
Christian "tongues" are not "ecstatic utterances" as some claim, like those found in the pagan cult of Apollo in the 1st century. The Corinthians asked Paul (1 Cor. 7:1; 8:1) about converts who still did pagan "spirituals" (pneumatikos) (tongues prophecy and healing by a spirit). In response Paul reminds the Corinthians how they know these are very different from true charisma. Unlike the Holy Spirit, the demon spirits inspiring the "spirituals" controlled the will of those they possessed, and completely subverted their ability to think driving them to do incredibly stupid things however the spirits wanted to mislead them. Paul then gives them an objective test that will positively identify the spirit controlling a "prophet", no one inspired by God says "Jesus is accursed' nor can demon spirits confess "Jesus Christ is LORD". [This recalls John's "test the spirits" command in 1 John 4:1-3. ONLY while the spirit is speaking through the "prophet" can it be tested if it can confess "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" or "Jesus Christ is LORD". If the alleged "prophet" is not under direct control of a spirit, humans can lie and confess anything they want. From personal experience I testify this test works well when demons appear in dreams or visions. Any form demons take will vanish when the demand is made they confess "Jesus is LORD" or that "Jesus came in the flesh". Reportedly "alien abductions" end when abductees cry out to Jesus, therefore its certain the test would work in those situations also.] Another fundamental difference the Corinthians should not be ignorant of, unlike different demon spirits inspiring different pneumatikos such as tongues, prophecy, and healing; there is only One Holy Spirit inspiring Christian charisma (1 Cor. 12:4-11). Extracted from What did the apostle John reveal when he said: "It is the last hour"? endtimenews.net/it-is-the-last-hour-1-john-2-18/
All these arguments, bickering like school children--and this while, as the silliness continues, the world (those outside the church, with precipitous government approval, even taught by academia), stands with raised fist shouting, "God is wrong, sin does not exist and there is no need for salvation nor is there anything to be saved from except rebellion against the algorithm." Father most holy in heaven... Open our eyes. Give us recognition of the real enemy. Cause us to accept, believe in, and adhere to, John 17 wherein You pray for us to walk in the same oneness the Father and Son shared from before creation. In Jesus eternal name above all names I ask this.
I consider it blasphemy to believe a modern person can raise someone from the dead after 4 days like Jesus did with Lazarus. Of course there is no evidence this has happened even once since Jesus did it 2000 years ago but some people actually believe it happens.
The manifestations of the Spirit are despised by the carnal mind. (Smith Wigglesworth quote) "There must be no compromise with those who hate the supernatural, or they will draw us from the presence of the ark and cause us to cease to be joyful in the presence of the Lord. Our God is an active God. His thunder is just as loud today as it was in the first century. Take note of 1Thessalonians 5:19 "quench not the manifestation of the Spirit"
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:15, 17-18 KJV What about this ☝️. how can you say spiritual gifts are no longer???🤔
@@BirchKST How did you come to that conclusion? How did the people that taught you that come to that conclusion? Study it and ask God to reveal you the truth.
In Acts 14:14 John McArthur… Barnabas AND Paul were both referred to as apostles (apostoloi) In the Greek the word in Acts 14:14 for apostle is the same one used in your 2 Corinthians 12:12 verse. When Paul is referring to the original 12 apostles he used the Greek word apstolos not apostoloi like he does in 2 Corinthians 12:12 when he was referring to Barnabas and himself. Apostle, as was original in the Greek, simply meant “messenger” that’s why Barnabas was an apostle. Paul was also a messenger but he was as well an original apostle which has a separate meaning altogether yet the same word.
@@davidhess1019 I just put the word in the scripture. :) . These teachers will say prayer can or may bring healing if it align with the will of God but they will not agree on healing powers. One thing I know is they dont care about healing.
@@davidhess1019 I don’t agree with their stance but from what I’ve learned about cessationism is there’s different levels of it (mild etc). They tend to believe God does miracles still as he’s God and can do what he wants. They just don’t believe in what they call the apostlic gifts. Just clearing that up
Has anyone considered that all of this bickering stems from the fact that we are in the last days, and the word says he will pour out his spirit on all flesh in the last days, perhaps the gifts did cease, and perhaps now in the last days, they are continuing .. perhaps there’s merit to both sides of the argument .. Food for thought?
Those that spoke in tongues in biblical times actually heard the language they spoke in their native tongue is my understanding. That what we see and hear today is babble from false teachers--not coherent, translatable, or even relatable language known to humans or anyone in the spiritual realm. Prosperity Gospel is false teaching. MacArthur is right, none can claim that they are apostles in biblical terms today. Some have claimed to be prophesy, but has ALL what they prophesied come true? Was it specific? What was the punishment for those who angered GOD in the prophesy? Did those that angered GOD, receive immediate punishment for their disobedience? What comes from God is specific and is fulfilled in full, leaving no doubts. I would say none of us today, after the last Apostle died has the gifts given from the Holy Spirit. They were baptized in Fire, and we are baptized by water. Our job in this modern day is to complete the Great Commission to await the fullness of the Gentiles and the End Times, our sign that our job is done is when the anti-Christ sets the abomination of desolation in the inner rooms of the 3rd Temple after the city of Jerusalem is seized. Will miracles be done in the End Times? Yep. A Non-profit GotQuestions answers a question, "Who are the Two Witnesses in the Book of Revelation?" Search there for further details.
What do you do with the scripture in Mark 16:17-18 [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. “These signs shall follow them that believe, In my Name, they shall cast out devils, Is this in reference to apostles or believers. I would be very surprised to discover A Cessationist able to pray the prayer of faith to heal the sick. It’s not in them. So I whole heartedly disagree with JM. He may be a great speaker, but he is wrong in this aspect of the Bible.
Mark 16-17-18 “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Jesus Said these signs will follow those who believe. It also says they will be saved. Reading it in context I don't know how you can argue that people who have " new tongues" adding something.. The Lord Said it.
@Isaiah Saldivar has read more Scripture just on his UA-cam channel than most people I know. But the same way you massacre ALL Charismatics I could say the same for Cessationists! I grew up one! None of them live holy in fear of God.. they all look like the world living in filthy sin in abundance. God's Word supports believing , holiness, and hearing God's voice far more than it does cessationism.
Has anyone heard of the continuist (as distinct from continuationist) method of Bible interpretation - defined as the premise that Christianity is the true continuation of the faith of the Hebrew patriarchs and prophets of antiquity?
i always note that cessationists SELECTIVELY IGNORE scripture . paul said there are DIVERSE KINDS of tongues . in one place he says when a man speaks in an UNKOWN tongue he speaks to God and NOT to man for NO MAN understands him. - so we see that john MacArthur is misrepresenting scripture AND what people say about it .
And who shall I belive? Jesus or man? We need to read the bible. "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18
John Mac, you are basically saying that God do things even if he wanted to. You can't speak for God, John. He made the world and everything in it, He can do what He wants even a supernatural healing if He wants
I wasn’t just the apostles that had the gift of tongues, is true, for example. But how come after the first century, that and also miracles ceased?? Clearly, now we have to God’s word, that’s enough for us. Yet, God is the same always, and miracles do happen. I’ve know people that had been healed of cancer, after that person and the church prayed. Although, we should be careful with what experiences we’re labeling as miracles.
And if you have to change the definition of the gifts of tongues or prophecy or healing to say these things are happening today , then there's the proof they're not. If you believe the apostolic gifts are still happening, just "not in the same way" as the Bible describes, then again there's your problem. Listen to the entire argument.
John MacArthur is making a serious error and is basically making a false dichotomy. The Bible in Acts actually shows non Apostles performing signs. For those who struggle with this please read the book of Acts and play special attention to signs being done and who is doing those signs. Of course there were lots of signs done by apostles but there is more than that going on.
I would like to see this discussed with an actual rebuttal
rebuttal: ua-cam.com/video/qy5Tyra2qTM/v-deo.html
The rebuttals are so easy. These cessationists teach false doctrine.
MacArthur would not fair well in a debate. However, he is fairly old so he probably should not.
@@ProphetGreg94 I have never had a continuationist refute cessationism. Best they seem to be able to do is refute straw-men since almost all the ones I have encountered don't understand the position.
@@michaelmannucci8585 are you serious? The is literally no where in scripture that states that the gifts have or will cease.
Wow what a great preacher who is so wrong and blind. I have been a Hospice Chaplain for years and I have seen miracles signs and wonders. His denial and blindness hinders this abilities to move in the spirit.
It wasn’t just the apostles that had the gifts. I’m so glad the spirit leads me to the word. Otherwise I would’ve clung on to what he said.
Exactly! They think they are so smart yet it’s clear in the Bible that the gifts have not ceased
@@SweetE1403 true, I do think we need to make sure we are not idolizing gifts though.
If anyone can show me someone performing verifiable miracles today, I'll change my cessationist position.
“For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.”
Romans 12:4-8 KJV
The gifts still exists
@@me73941 “For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.”
Romans 12:4-8 KJV
Not necessarily miracles but gifts of the Spirit.
I normally like MacArthur but he is just off here. All continuationists don't believe that Scripture-level prophecy is happening. Also, the apostles weren't the only ones in scripture to do miracles!
God breathes through His Word and their is His voice. How can you even begin with God if you think He has ceased. He is our guide until the end ! John Macarthur breathes his own thoughts through the Scriptures. Cessationism is anti-Christ heresy
I understand both sides, being raised conservative and then going “too far” to the charismatic end (think Over spiritualizing things, false signs for money, (I was fooled. I never performed false signs). and prosperity gospel. These are not good and not godly) but I’ve seen it all. I’ve even seen other religions like Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness. I’ve sat in their seats and loved on their people and listened. And the ONLY way to reach them and have a lasting connection with them in order that maybe one day God would win their soul, is to be HUMBLE and gentle. To speak the TRUTH yes, but in love, with ALL gentleness and respect.
I’ve heard it all...including new age and other religions like Bhudism, Hinduism, and other cults. And taken it ALL to Scripture. And I have something to say: humility will go a long, long way. ESPECIALLY With topics like this. This is not a salvation issue...if someone believe gifts are in effect today, or if someone believes they stopped...that does not matter to God as much as either the acceptance or denial of His Son Jesus.in fact, according to Scripture the ONLY stipulation to salvation is this: “Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.” The Bible doesn’t actually even command the “sinner’s prayer” be prayed to be saved either (although I do not deny this can be a tool to help lead people) but remember what God told Samuel the prophet in 1 Samuel: “Man judges the outward appearances, but God sees the heart.”
I really do not understand the harsh words being spoken about others different than yourself. That is all it is. Different opinions. And Scriptures are being dangerously thrown about out of context at times to prove a point (but is it GOD’s point??) Not salvation issue. It must be worked out independently. I do not think it’s right or fair of a leader figure to cast down others based on something that is not life or death for the soul. A leader ought to be humble and pure of speech, not willing to be a stumbling block for any. This here is a stumbling block of offense...and not the kind Jesus is either.
After years and years of observing and studying the Word and experiencing many different things, I simply believe when Jesus says in the Gospels “Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but this is that the glory of God might be revealed...” and when I consider the works of Jesus and the heart of God according to Scripture, I simply cannot box Him in. God is a jealous God (also Biblical) and He will not give His glory to another. Therefore, who am I to decide if He will work miracles or tongues or prophecy today? Who am I to judge that He would stop? I have found no strong Biblical evidence that the gifts continuing today would cease to give God glory. Therefore, I cannot say any of them has ceased. I am not “cessasionalist” or Continualist”. I fear the LORD and trust He is bigger than I can ever imagine and nothing is impossible for Him.
God uses the sinner’s prayer just as effectively as He miraculously heals or brings salvation to a culture without language. It’s HIS choice and HIS will. Not ours. “Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit,” declares the LORD.
I also believe He will fulfill HIS WILL. And it is not up to me to say His will is with or without the gifts. Personally, I also believe there are many mentions of the gifts continuing, although the very basis of God being BIGGER than me and holy and pure in His intentions trumps ANY “theological” statement that wants to argue Scripture apart from God. (I’m not saying that’s what’s done here. I’m just saying in general). Scripture MUST be interpreted ONLY with the lense of the Holy Spirit: the Author’s Intention. This requires humility and a correctable spirit-not just a corrective spirit.
May God make every man and woman a liar and His truth prevail. This is mercy. That the clouds would be swept away and all things laid bare. Humility is the key to every Scripture...to be willing to come under the instruction of the Holy Spirit.
Also, this whole little video made me so frustrated because of the pointing fingers and condemnation coming out of the mouth of someone I used to really appreciate. It did not persuade me either way. It gave me a headache because I see this trend far too often on both ends of the spectrum of Christianity.
But I do not think God is pleased when we condemn one another. Period. No matter who you are. We have zero right to condemn.( Now convicting a person and coming to them in love and saying “hey brother, this isn’t Biblical. Let me show you why I think so. You pray to God, read the Word and ask for His help” this is Biblical.) But to be on a stage and point fingers is embarrassing to me as a fellow evangelist. and not a way to reach the lost with lasting impact. Unfortunately, he is doing exactly the same as many charismatic people do...pointing the finger at the opposite “party” if I may. But theological discussion ought not be “spiritual politics” but glorifying God! It’s not about who’s right or wrong. To GOD be all glory and power and dominion for ever and ever, amen!
Especially since this is not a salvation issue, it should be taken with extreme caution and humility and “saved” or “not saved” based on belief of gifts being or not being used today should not be a factor. It’s ok to share our opinions. But it should be clearly stated as such. Not pitched as facts and every other way is not saved, simply because one does not understand it (and it’s not a salvation issue!)
I say all these things in love and not out of hate for any sides here. These are my discoveries on the matter, so observe them if you will. but most important: seek yourself the Word of the LORD and you will find the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.
Well said brother!
Anna, thank you. My greatest burden is to see people free from any shackles of religious constraint or charismatic chaos. For God is a big God, beyond all comprehension. Yet we are called to seek Him with our whole hearts, and we will find Him. He hides Himself from the haughty yet reveals Himself to little children. May we abide in Jesus and ask Him to help us understand His Word.
God does not reside in a box, and He actually wants us to seek and find Him. He actually shared Himself with us because His Grace has made a way. In fact, Jesus IS the Way, Truth and Life. And we come to the Father through Him with all types of requests, questions, etc. he is personal and ever-loving.
I’ve seen both a very conservative point of view and a charismatic one…although I hate putting a phrase to it. Now I do not identify as either reformed or charismatic. I have learned we must test every spirit and every teaching on either side. Because God has both signs and wonders and truth in Him.
The Holy Spirit actually lead me away from BOTH. Because I was hyper focused on signs and wonders. Then hyper focused on theology. When the point is to gaze upon the beauty and power and love of GOD and all that He is. There is no end to Him! And to Him we should look and abide in and walk with, in part now yet shall we see clearly when He comes.
Truly, He just IS. Even as God’s name means: YHWH: “I AM that I AM.” It’s actually amazing and so, so beautiful. I could really go on and on. It’s with excitement and positive passion I speak, no judgement of any kind. Simply I desire to see Jesus glorified and the rubbish of our ways to burn like chaff.
This comment wins
Very well written. I'm still trying to figure this out, so I'm digging and reading and watching videos. One thing I would point out when you say it's "not a salvation issue." For the most part, I would agree with that. MacArthur pointed out that many of these "healers" have bad theology. They are false teachers. I'm talking about the big names in the "healing business." I believe these are the people God will say "depart from me....."
Wow lots of wisdom in your reply!! God bless you and thank you!!
Lord Jesus, I thank you for the grace that you gave me to be borne in a family with difficult conditions in Africa. You used those conditions to reveals yourself to me as a God who speaks, heals, who still use men with wonders and signs. I experimented your gifts without reading all the Bible. I thank you Lord because my faith is not only base on what I read but on the demonstration of your power. Thus, no theology can shake my hope.
Lord have mercy of those theologian s who have never experimented your gifts and want to lock you in their theology boxes.
Amen praise the lord
Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and to guide you. I would recommend the UA-cam channel Cleveland street preachers and follow Jesus no man no religion. Be holy and obey Jesus. Hebrews 5:9 “salvation is for those who obey.
Just make sure the "Power" demonstrated is backed up by SCRIPTURE and not goosebumps. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. The word is powerful!!! ✊️
Amen
I don't want to be annoying, but... God locked Himself in His own theology box, called the Bible.
the Holy Spirit never stopped, nor did the gifts ever went away. God does talk to all brothers and sisters, as our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher, guiding us to do the Father's will, convicting us when we do wrong, comforting us in hard times, helping understand Scripture. The Holy Spirit is God.... so why teach that He stopped? He never stops working.... He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
That’s not at all whats he’s saying.
That’s not only not what he said but he actually made a point of stating many of the ways in which the Holy Spirit is still active.
Are we still writing scripture?? Are we still making sacrifice at the temple??
False! It's the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Not the gifts of the Apostles!
Bruh… this comment 💯💯💯
There is nothing in the bible that states the gifts were only for the apostles. 1 Corinthians 12 4-11 states: There are different kinds of gifts, But they are ALL GIVEN to BELIEVERS BY THE SAME SPIRIT.
The Holy Spirit is given to EACH of US in a special way. That is for the good of ALL. All the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. HE GIVES GIFTS TO EACH PERSON, JUST AS HE DECIDES.
If anyone thinks to tell me to ask the lord for guidance and to open up my eyes to the truth, you ASSUME I have not asked the lord to open up my eyes and reveal the truth to me. You should know that I would have not commented if I had not asked the holy spirit to do so.
One of the arguments of cessationist is 1 Corinthians 13 where it says (when the PERFECT is complete all the partials will cease). Yes indeed when the PERFECT is complete, the partial (which in part are the gifts of the spirit) will cease.
Cessationist believe that the PERFECT being spoken about in these versus is the bible, since it came from God so the bible is perfect, but the BIBLE isn't the "PERFECT" being spoken of here. It's JESUS (THE PERFECT) and the new heaven that is being spoken here.
When everything is finalized with the lord and this world, they would not be a need for us to have the gifts of the spirit because ALL WILL BE MADE PERFECT AND KNOWN TO US. HALLELUJAH AND AMEN!
@@emilyburgos2026 But the gifts of prophecy, for example, John makes a point that if they are authentic prophecies of modern day, does that mean God isn’t done speaking? Making the Bible unfinished?
@@emilyburgos2026 The gift of the spirit in regards to Apostleship was strictly for the ones who witnessed the resurrected Christ hence the requirements to replace Judas as described in the book of (Acts 1:21-22). Therefore, certain spiritual gifts have ceased. In addition, the Apostle Paul mentions about building the Church with Jesus being the cornerstone and the Apostle and prophets laying the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). The Apostle Paul continues in chapter 4 when he mentions the ministry of the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers in building the Church (Ephesians 4:11). The church is now in the erra of Evangelist, Pastors, and Teachers because the Apostle and Prophets erra had ceased after they laid down the foundation of God's new temple which is the church. If there is new revelation then the Bible isn't sufficient and it isn't a closed canon. But if the Bible is the complete revelation of God's redemptive work throughout humanity that was completed by Christ as described by the direct eyewitness accounts [the apostles], then there is no further need for NEW revelation through prophecy because Christ is the fulfillment of prophecy. Therefore, that spiritual gift served its purpose for the founding of the early church. Anytime there is a NEW revelation that someone claims to have that is beyond the sufficiency of the Bible, then you open the door for cults such as Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. I grew up going to multiple charismatic churches and even had "prophets" prophesy to me and their "prophecies" never caim to past. I have a brother who thought he was cured of a genetic sickness according to a "prophet" who was able to "heal" people and the sickness did not get reversed by the "prophet". Mind you these were different "prophets" that made these statements claiming to speak on behalf of God. I used to be in the camp of prophets still existing but I have yet to encounter 1 true prophet and after reading the Bible and gaining an understanding of the purpose of prophecy, to ultimately point to God's redemptive work, then I switched to being a cessationist. This idea of prophets ceasing was also understood for most of church history until modern times.
@@80nosdnahd75 beautifully written, thank you.
On that day MANY will say to me Lord Lord did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do MANY mighty works in your name and then will I declare to them depart from me I never knew you.
yes thatz what i was saying.
ua-cam.com/video/RD9N8jiQVsI/v-deo.html
Here’s a link for a rebuttal.
That doesn`t mean that prophecy, casting out demons and mighty works are wrong. It means that the wonders alone are no proof of rebirth, truth and living faith. Just like Matthew 7 where we first must remove the mote in our eye in order to remove the splinter in someone else`s. The same with signs and wonders; first rebirth and turning from sins and then we may received wonders and signs for His glory. First the Giver then the gifts..
@zaaigoed any examples from church history ??
I dont say that Peter was the truest purest student of scripture... yet he was an apostle...
yes brother johnathan thats what I said in my comment, Peter and other apostles were not students of the scriptures. but God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised thing - 1 corinthians 1:27 -- they unable the comments because they know they are wrong -- -they have no theology to talk agains the continuist--- not even one scripture in the bible supports this idea
The apostles believed and taught from the scripture. They were following the example of Jesus and taught from scripture. To downplay scripture is to downplay God himself, because scripture is the word of God.
@@lonnieclemens8028 my friend please dont just believe on what people tell you, read the bible, study theology, arqueology, and christian history. i will help you this time please take notes:
1- The disciples didnt have bible like you and I have. The bible was written in papyrus, it was very expensive, and complicated to carry. The pharisees, the doctors and other, could use bible from the temple and they were the ones that had the bible (all papyrus), and they taught the bible to the ones who wanted to learn about God. This is the reason they were surpised that Jesus Knew a lot without studying:
John 7:14-15 ¶ *Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
15 And the Jews amarvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?*
2- Therefore, show me one disciple besides *Paul* that studied with the pharisees, knew, and understood about the scripture before Jesus taught him? - Guess what, you can´t - Because there aren´t. -- How can you say that they studied the scriptures? with whom? who told you they knew how to write and read?
Since you don´t know the bible because you dont read the bible, and your favorite cessacionist pastors dont teach you, i will teach you, so please take notes:
Acts 4:13 *When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they marveled and took note that these men had been with Jesus.*
3- you might dont know, so please take notes most of the disciples were fisherman, not all of them, most of them; as you know you dont need a degree to be a fisherman today, let alone in the times of Jesus. They were not like Paul that learned from Gamaliel, and was highly educated - not Peter, John, and James -- Prove in the bible that they were schooled, and studied the scriptures, guess what? you cannot because they were not....Jesus, and the Holy Spirit that you dont believe he operates now, taught them all they knew about God. Luke 24:45 *Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.*
and other chapter that your pastors will never teach you like john 16:13-14.
Mathew11:25 *I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.*
and Paul Said in 1 Corinthians 1:27-28 *But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.*
4- Who said the aspostles didnt believe in the scriptures? Who said the apostle did not follow Jesus ? you said it, I never said that, you are thinking wrong. They saw Jesus, and they were living testemonies that Jesus is the son of God, they died to show that Jesus is the Messiah.
5- you guys are the ones downplaying God, because you guys dont believe in miracles and believe that God will only use people that know the scriptures and students of the word of God.
We on the contrary, we believe in the Bible, we exault God -- we are saying that God is so powerful that he can use unschooled people to preach for wise; he can heal the blind, because he is greater than science, he can do miracles with people that denied him and repent just like he did with peter. why ca he do it? who is downplaying God? He can use people that aproved killing, and repent, he can use this people to do miracles just like he did with Paul. why not? in what autorithy you guys say that God cannot do it? you are downplaying God when you say he doesn´t do it - you guys are putting limitation on God´s power, God´s will, God´s word (because he never said he would stop using people), you guys are doing this (downplaying God and his word).
On the contrary, we are saying that we cannot put limitation in the power of the Lord. You guys think that God will only use the wise, you believe you are holier than any sinner, Luke 18:11-14, you guys think you can see but you are blind (John 9:39-41) - God can use even stones.
Mathew 3:9 *And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.*
Please next time use any bible verse to prove any of your points, if you want to use just your opinion, we talk about philosophy, not about theology.
@@lonnieclemens8028 Exactly right. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, he responded every time by quoting scripture. NOT ONCE did he respond with the ecstatic gibberish today's continuationists call "tongues".
I was betrayed by a business partner. And a pastor who I never met before called it out. Told me how I was betrayed and that God was going to take back what was stolen (I literally didn't know anyone in this church, so there was no way he could have known). He told me to put my hands out, and my entire body felt like it was on fire. The power was insane. I was crying from the weight of the glory. I've never been the same since. Filled with the Holy Spirit. I've seen God heal the blind, the deaf, and get people out of wheel chairs. God still heals today. And to say that the Holy Spirit would reside in people and teach them the word, but NOT manifest in the gifts of the Holy Spirit makes no Biblical sense, and you're essentially blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I don't care how well you know the Greek and the Hebrew if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, there is no salvation for you.
Love the testimony
I don’t agree with the blaspheme they HS part though. That’s a bit strong.
We all have different understanding of theology, but as long as someone has the essentials they good.
I think MacArthur makes a weird argument that the miraculous gifts are only from the apostles. Philip had 4 daughters who prophesied
Even the devil heals. 🤘
He comes as the father of light. Not with fire in his hand and scary looking. There is a strange gospel entering the church of Christ. Feelings do not indicate salvation. Even the bible declares that. You are not a superior Christian because of miracles or Feelings. The bible simply says if we believe. Not if we feel.
That’s a little excessive, this man has served the Lord faithfully and preached through the entire New Testament word for word. Kenneth Copeland preaches the prosperity gospel that is leading many to hell, and he speaks in “tongues”. Which person do you think has the Holy Spirit, the one leading people to love Gods Word and righteousness? Or the one leading people to be money lovers?
That's it right. Mac Arthur can't explain away your experience, or mine. Joel specifically states the gifts are for the last days.
I speak in my heavenly language, and use it daily. Jude teaches us why.
This man is teaching the dictates of men as the doctrines of God.
I will end as I started, Mac Arthur can't explain away the Church's experience in Jehovah's kingdom.
Well u right we can't explain ur experiences of but let me tell you something... If that man is getting revelations from God... Why doesn't he add these teachings to the Bible
Cessationists
(2Timothy 3:5)
"Having a form of godliness yet denying the power thereof"
So all Christians until the 1900's only had a form of godliness? The reformers? The puritans? Jonathan Edwards? Spurgeon? The early church fathers? Thank God the charismatic movement came along almost 1900 years later to wake up the Spirit of God, huh?
Power to do what? The power to save from sin and hell. The power to reach the lost. This is the power.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes. [Romans 1:16 NIV]
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. [1 Corinthians 1:17 NIV]
4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, [1 Corinthians 2:4 NIV]
@@michaelmannucci8585only if you believe the lie that all Christians in the world were cessationists
@@michaelmannucci8585many people would have just been following god's word not putting silly labels on what god has made perfect
@@JayCee-eo8ht What are you trying to say? I don't understand your point.
Stephen was not an apostle and he did mighty works and deeds.
Apostolic age .... Not necessarily Apostle.
@@robroy4058 so did the holy sprit change ?
@@BrotherInChristDK Excellent question. And the answer, no, the Holy Spirit did not change. :)
For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. - 1 Corinthians 15:9-10
Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead)...- Galatians 1:1
Paul indeed was an apostle
That's why we need to have discernment. To discern the false teachers that are here today. Meaning to stay away from & to discern "cessationist".
Yes, Paul said, "...having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. Have nothing to do with them." (2 Timothy 3:5)
spiritofthelordgod.blogspot.com/2022/07/have-spiritual-gifts-ceased.html
ua-cam.com/video/ivorbqJIFjs/v-deo.html
Touché
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message.
The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given.
Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts.
Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
Let’s not just throw around false teachers around like that. If we all agree on basic doctrine it is fine but just cause they different interpretations doesn’t make them false John MacArthur preaches the truth about Jesus but his take on this concept is different but not to make him a false teacher
They are brothers and sisters in Christ, not merely friends.
If that's your Verdict on these issues,then it's safe to say that even the gift of teaching ended with the Apostles.John please don't limit God's wisdom.
couldn’t have said it better
Exactly! It is dangerous to cherry-pick the Gospel, keeping only what suits or is comfortable to us.
well put .
Very bad argument. And I think it shows you havn't considered this issue honestly.
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message.
The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given.
Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts.
Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
1Cor.14:2 is tongues that is not a language...."does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however in the spirit he speaks mysteries"....this is the prayer language that you have probably heard before. When I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, tongues rolled out of me like a river of living water, but that was just the overflow of being immersed in His wonderful love. There are no words to describe the fullness of it, and you want me to deny it....but I cannot.
Hi David, I am trying to take a fair look at both sides of the argument. Some would say that you are basing your belief on personal experience rather than the word of God-the bible. That the spirit you received was not the Holy Spirit but a demonic spirit masquerading as the Holy Spirit as in II Corinthians 11:14. Non Charismatics would say that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is received at the time of salvation Romans 8.
@@lonnieclemens8028 Even Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power in Acts 10:38, and how much more do we need the baptism with the Holy Spirit? There is a difference between being baptized "by" the Holy Spirit as in 1Cor.12:13 which is when we are born again and placed into the body of Christ and being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ in Matt. 3:11, when Jesus IS the Baptizer.
Thank you so much for mentioning this, I agree with these guys at some extent, but I am amazed at how confident they are speaking on this matter, which discouraged me from listening to their teachings
@@lonnieclemens8028 Take a listen to Joseph Prince, whom I had never heard of, but was really blessed at what God has revealed through his ministry. At first I thought this guy is so young and strange looking, but he's just not religious. I decided to listen and I am glad I did.
@@davidhess1019 Joseph Prince is a known false teacher though :'(
Just realised am a Ceassationist. Maybe that’s why I never fit in my church.
So you deny about half the bible? Sad....
Nope I don’t.
@@jossiahkandoje1151 Yes, you have a form of godliness but deny the power.
What is that?
So give me just one scripture that supports Cessationism.
Doesn’t apostle in essence mean “sent one” or “one who was sent” by God? Did God stop sending people to do his will? Just looking for clarification.
No, God has not ceased to send people to different places for His purpose.
To be an apostle you had to be an eye witness to Christ, alive or risen and chosen specifically by him
@@jordangarvin9282 Paul was not a witness to the risen or living Christ in bodily form and he was an apostle.
@@davidhess1019
3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
(Acts 9:3-6)
I didn't say it had to be in bodily form. But you wanna repeat that again buddy? 🧐
@@jordangarvin9282 You said, "alive or risen" and should have qualified your statement on whether you meant in body or not. Your description includes all born again believers who have the witness of the Holy Spirit and God can call and send any believer He chooses to do whatever He directs.
Furthermore, Ephesians 4:11-13 that the 5 fold ministry is in effect "till we all come to the unity of the faith.... etc." and we clearly are NOT there yet.
Please read this before believing in this video:
If God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow what changed for him not to do miracles? what amazes me is that they believe satan can do miracles but God cant, is our God dead? if satan curses someone we cannot pray for Jesus to deliver the person? if we pray, Jesus is not going to deliver the person? is satan more powerful? why would God be the all powerful and not even use 0.1 percent of his power on humans?, your arguments are anti biblical.
just see how arrogant he is ´´ the people that claim to do miracles all have bad theology``
Second, he said min 3:51 - 4:03 ´´ if God was giving miracle power to people, the people who had the miracle power would be the truest, the purest, and most faithful students of the sripturest wouldnt they? --- just with that we could all see his arrogance; He is like the pharisees he believes is the one that deserved to to be used by God and have the power of God because he or the people he claimed studied the bible -- guess what,* All of us have become like one who is unclean
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags* Isaiah 64:6
For your information, *27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him* 1corinthians 1:27-29. Therefore, for your information when Jesus came, the ones that got to be his apostles were not the ones that were studying the bible in the sinagoge, He walked with illeterate people, and this is the reason why people that studied the bible (the pharisees, Drs and others) envy him and said the same that u guys say today -- *people who make this miracles are from devil* (Luke 11:15-20) but Jesus already warned us about people like you guys; He said * It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household!* Mathew 10:25.
we can see he does not believe in miracles because God does not use him to do miracles, and he believes if there were miracles he deserves this grace. Believe that God also operates according to the need not to show off (1Corinthians 12:7)
Last but not least he said min4:47 to 4:59: There were only 13 apostles with capital A: It is right? are you the one who decides who are the real apostles? i dont think so, but lets see: besides what he mentioned we have: *But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting:* Acts 14:14, and *Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.* Romans 16:7. There are more but it would be too long to talk about all of them.
Be careful guys not to sin against the Holy spirit, which is saying that something that God did was made by the devil (Marks 3:29-30).
1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Brother, I do not yet know where I stand on this subject but I pray often to be given wisdom and understanding of it and of all scripture. But I do know that every time I have seen one of these kinds of videos, the continuationists disagree and usually call the cessationists friends and brothers, and oftentimes, they are attacked by the opposing side as being Pharisees. I never heard him say that those who claim to speak in tongues are of the devil yet you make the assertion that he is a Pharisee and that he calls the works of God the works of the devil. He may be wrong, I may be wrong, you may be wrong, but we are called to love and do not have to have perfect theology in order to be given salvation. I love you and I pray that we can all find a common ground in Christ. Have a good evening.
@@jb2009BCT Dear brother @jared Brown, the bible talks about love and we know that God is love, but the same bible tells you the following: John 2:15-17, 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: “ *Zeal for your house will consume me* .” are you going to tell me that Jesus didnt have love? what are you going to tell me when he called the pharisees hypocrits (Mt 15:7, Mt 23:13-15, Mt 23:23,Mt 23;25, Mt 23:27, Mt 23:29, Mark 7:6, Mark 12;15? didnt he have love at that time? That´s the point, when you have love for someone, you dont accept people talking wrong about this person, mistreating his work, and ignoring his will, when you have love you are going to protect and defend the person, and you will try to do everything that makes this person happy, thats what Jesus did, and that what real christians do - That´s love!
However, Let me shed some light on you related to what the bible says, what mccarthur said, and what he does:
1- The bible:
a) the word gift in the original greek is the word (charisma), which comes from the word grace (charis) -- what am I trying to tell you? i am trying to tell you that gifts also are an expression of the the grace, the blessings, and love of the Lord, which is everlasting, infinite, and beyond our comprehension.
b) the bible say that the gifts of the Lord are irrevocable Romans 11:29 - This means that God never repented and will never repent from a gift that he has given to someone. The prove of this is that satan still have the gifts he receive from the Lord, being even able to transform himself into an angel of light - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. So you can see that if satan still can do, that means that God did not take away his gifts. . The Lord could take his gifts if he wanted, and there is not in this world anyone that deserves to be without powers more than satan.
c) There is not any verse in the bible that says that God our Lord took the gifts, or that there would not be any miracles or gifts-- There is not even 1 verse that talks about that.so your question should be, if there is not even a scripture, why do they say it? who are they trying to please? God? why are they talking something different than what the bible say?
d) The bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 "Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- haven´t they read this verse? tell me something, has the Lord Jesus Christ been reveled already? when? where? and if he has not been revealed why are we lacking spiritual gifts? if there are some gifts and other are not here anymore we lack spiritual gifts, so is the bible wrong?
e) Ephesians 4:11 "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." - If christ gave apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, why the prophets and apostles were taken from the list? why only the pastor and evanlists? hummmm because itsa their gifts, if hey dont have a gift it means is over right? of course No.
The scripture says so that the body of christ may be built, my question do we as church we dont need church anymore? are we attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of christ? could you tell me if we have got to this point yet?
1 corinthians 12:7-11 *Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines*
well let me jump to Z....
z) Last but not least, Revelation 11:3-6 *And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying* -- If the gifts such as prophecy and miracles have stopped already, how can these two testemonies prophecy and work miracles? this is the book of Revelation this chapter talks about a future that has not happened yet, so if there are no gifts how can they have the gifts in the future? if nobody else can use or have it, the chapter should never exist, because it shows that God will reveal his power through miracles and prophecies, if it doesn´t exist anymore why is this chapter there?. The cessacionist should be called, or become pausist; because it would be a better lie if they told us that the gifts of the Lord paused and will continue later, it would be a better lie. However, even after reading this verse of revelation, if you tell me the gifts have stopped, you are going against a scripture, and denying God´s word which is Jesus Christ; and thats what the cessacionists do.
*What did he say in the video*
He said all continuists have bad Theology. Really? why do you think he blocks comments in his videos? if you know you are saying the truth why can i comment and they prove me im wrong? 2 - why doesnt he accept to come or go somewhere else and talk about his doctrine? he never accepts. saying that someone has bad theology is it talking good about people you dont know?
2- min 2:30 - he said " if you can demonstrate that there are no apostles, then consequently there are no signs of an apostle, there are no gifts of an apostle." Really, now there are sign of the apostles? where is it on the bible? miracles are signs of apostles? prophets never did miracles? the other disciples (because Jesus had more than 70 disciples) never did a miracle? who said miracles are signs of apostles?
Let me show you beyond my first coment, and once again that he is lying:
Lets see:
Luke 10:17 "The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” so, are the 12 apostles the only ones? of course No. See Luke 10: 19 *I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you*
To show you more lets read Acts 9:17-18 *then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord-Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here-has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized* WAS Aannias AN APOSTLE? OF COURSE NO. Other prophets profecy, read Acts 21:10 the prophet Agabus;
Who has bad heology maccarthur of course.
the gifts are from the Holy Spirit not form the Apostle:
1 corinthians 12:7-11 *Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom..*
The apostles never didanything by themselves but they were led by the spirit of the living God just like Jesus Christ: john 5:19, 2 Corinthians 3:5 *Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life*
My brother the only reason why Mcarthur talks about the gifts of the holy spirit is to make money.he knows that a lot of people had bad experiences with many false prophets so he talks about that so he could have them in his church. and byuing his books. if he wanted people only to know about Jesus, he should give his books free download in PDF format. but he doesnt. he criticizes what he does, talks about money and pastors and he lives in a mansion, talks about woman and guess what? click on this link 5 htings you did not know about john mccarthur.
ua-cam.com/video/olVVFfRsixg/v-deo.html
My brother i could tell you and write about everything he said wrong, and prove you using the scriptues, but it will become a long comment.
For this text not to become too long, I had to jump from e) to z). However, there are a lot of other scriptures that show and prove that the gifts of the lord never were taken away or extinguished by the Lord, however, if there is any questions, please feel free to reach me and contact me as a brother to explain you a little bit more, I hope our Lord Jesus Christ reveals his grace (charis) and gifts (charisma) to you. If God allows me i will be praying for you and for the church of christ, but not for the wolfs disguised.
My whatsapp number: +13467187405
"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Eph.4:13)....We are definitely not there yet, so this leaves the door open for the five fold ministry.
Amen.
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message.
The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given.
Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts.
Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
@@lyp8942 Sorry, but all of your speculation cannot cancel the Word of God. You only regurgitate what some man put in your head, and has stolen from you one of the most precious gifts of the Holy Spirit.
@@davidhess1019 i know this is not for everybody , you just cannot understand it now ,.,or never ..you just can’t chew this truth right now
@@lyp8942 Give me one scripture that provides an expiration date for the baptism with the Holy Spirit, otherwise be silent.
Cloud without water … but does have a-lot of Hot air. I believe in The True God who still delivers, heals, restores, and Loves.
Sir you limiting the the Holy Spirit limiting the 5 Fold ministry. People do speak in tongues of other languages.
Tongues in 1 Cor 14 were not definable they needed interpretation
You are making blanket statements like you know better than the Holy Spirit…very dangerous!!!
There were more than 13 apostles. If I can show that John is wrong about that, could that open his eyes to the fact that he may be wrong about other statements he proclaims in this interview?
Acts 14:14 - Luke labels Barnabas an apostle.
Gal 1:19 - James the brother of Jesus is named an apostle by Paul. This is not the same James that was a disciple of Jesus.
Now, we don't know how these two men became labeled an apostle, but they were. Paul became an apostle by a direct vision from Jesus, and Matthias was chosen by the original 11. It would stand to reason that either an existing apostle could count you as one of them, or Jesus could call you to be an apostle just like he did Paul. Perhaps, the 12 named James and/or Barnabas an apostle to replace one that had died, or perhaps Jesus called them like he called Paul.
I could also argue that Luke and John Mark were Apostles. How else could they write scripture?
MacArthur's whole argument is that the gifts of the Apostles ceased when the Apostles ceased to live. He says there can be no other apostles besides the original 12, but then has to back track and admit that the apostles can choose replacements and that Jesus can call out apostles even after He ascended. As you can see, his argument starts to fall apart when you actually study the Bible.
Jesus can still call an apostle today whether John MacArthur likes it or not. Jesus can also continue to do miracles through his followers, not just the apostles. Mark: 16:17.
Also, riddle me this... If the gifts of the Spirit were limited to only the 13 apostles that John MacArthur knows about, then why would Paul take the time to teach those gifts to the Corinthian church in letter? When Paul left, there wasn't another apostle there according to MacArthur. Think about that.
I'm going to do a deeper dive into rebutting this video on my channel.
I’m a cessationist because of the points he made about theology and character. Why are all the people who have “gifts” false teachers, heretics, lovers of money, sexually immoral, morally bankrupt, etc.
I’ve been in church my entire life and I have never encountered a cessationist who was a decent person. Never. They appear holy but they are terrible people who completely ignore Biblical truth. I tried a Continuanist church for 2 years. I thought I’d found one that was actually Biblical. Nope. Leadership was dishonest (they actually wanted me to believe lying was okay) and covered up horrible things that happened (involving children).
This has been the standard in every charismatic church I’ve ever been to or heard of. They operate more like Satan than God. 2:16
Why would Paul say in 1 Corinthians 14:39 KJV
"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
If there's no more prophesying and tongues?
Why would Jesus say "you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you" ?
Cessationism is contrary to the Bible, the Word of God which is Superior above all the opinions and beliefs of scholars. Where in scripture does it say the gifts ceased with the apostles? Which gifts did the apostles have that ceased? Was Peter a Prophet? So Paul was not an Apostle? Is Paul in a different category from the 12 apostles? On what criteria? In fact the Bible says the opposite yet the same cesssationist who claim to believe all scripture decide to change goalposts when it comes to this. Why? For many reasons, some don't just feel comfortable with the scripture so they choose to discard it, for some it is unbelief, for some a painful past experience at the hands of false prophets and for most UNBELIEF! Spiritual gifts still exist TODAY and are fully functioning as we speak. God gave them for a Reason which also is CLEARLY stated in scripture, they are not just there for people to have fun and play around. However, I do agree that some have misused the gifts and enriched themselves because of that.
Let's not make our own beliefs, brothers and sisters let us follow scripture not "doctrines". Christianity is not philosophy where you pick and choose what "school of thought" you want to belong to, Calvinism, Cessationism, Word of Faithism these are all movements made by men that divert people from scripture. Let us follow scripture as it is.
*1 COR 13 : 1-3 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have (A)prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, (B)so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And (C)though I bestow all my goods to feed and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.*
Wherefore I remind you to of God which is in you through laying on of my hands." 2 Tim 1:6
1 John 4:1 the Apostle John writes, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
The Lord Jesus also mentioned false prophets coming into the world, how so when true prophets exist and to make matters more interesting Jesus Himself was also a Prophet! though He was the Messiah.
Thank You for speaking on the truth.
The acts of the apostles didn’t end with “ amen “ . My pastor before he died said “ the reason it didn’t say amen is because that book hasn’t ended . Because after them came every believer after them all the way up to us until the end of time . Other books and letters end with amen but the acts of the apostles didn’t end with amen . Amen means to end a saying or letter . The Bible says in the last days I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and they will dream dreams “ . God is the same yesterday today and forever . This man has blasphemed the spirit of God .
@@joshuaramirez8855 so when jesus comes will we still do all that? no. guess the spirit changes...not. learn what immutability actually means
Cessationists blaspheme the Holy Spirit! Lord have mercy on them! Their Pneumatology is beyond pathetic.
All head and no power. I've been healed miraculously more then once. What am I supposed to think...that the devil healed me!? God forbid! Jesus healed me!!!!
This guy sounds like a modern day Pharisee/Sadducee - one who is operating primarily by religious spirits
I don't get it but every cessationist is always has a negative attitude, the voice of a narcissist, And the look of a hypocrit...
I see you have the gift of sight my friend
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
(John 14:12)
Yeah but a cessationist would say in the instance from John 14:12 Jesus was only talking with the apostles, not any one else.
@@garystewart9211 they don't say the same about salvation John 3:16?
@@Livuu.Emanuel Exactly! They pick and choose what they want.
My question did John MacArthur and everybody else who thinks that God doesn't speak to you or whisper to you. What told John MacArthur that he should go into the ministry was it himself or was it the holy Spirit speaking to him? Or was it Satan? I think that's a fair question. I agree that the gifts of the apostles were for the apostles but I still believe that God whispers to you in that small still voice.
Is God communicating one of the gifts he is talking about?
I respect this guy and listen to him quite often but totally disagree with this. If he claims noone can drive out demons or heal through the laying on of hands then he is misled AND misleading. Maybe he should check out Derek Prince. I mean who is he to say what God will do through people? Quite arrogant & self righteous.
I like McAuthor and think he is a man of God. That being said I was surprised to learn he is a Cessationist. The word of God is complete, no new revelation; that doesn't mean the Gifts of the spirit cannot operate. Now if someone says they have a gift of the spirit there should be some healthy scepticism.
Jesus christ sacrifice is still at work. Salvation, healing. The healing power and salvation will never stop. If healing is not happening then salvation is not happening. The same yesterday today and forever. Their are false prophets all over.
Anyone who believes Spiritual gifts have ceased is calling Ephesians 4:13 a Lie.
The most important moment in the life of any and all believers--in fact the most important moment in all people...
That single most important moment will be when each of us hears one of two pronouncements:
1) depart from me I never knew you.
2) well done good and faithful servant.
In that moment we will all see and wonder with amazement just how little arrogant judgementalism has served any man and how unfathomably great are the Father's grace and mercy.
@josephpchajek2685
Amen. You Bolster the point. Christianity is the only belief system in the recorded history of mankind wherein people will be judged for how we treated God based upon how we treat the least of these his children.
I do not agree with John MacArthur’s Calvinistic theology, I do agree with him that there is a GREAT cessation of the works the apostles did. Does that mean the Holy Spirit no longer works in today’s church? Absolutely not! But He is not working in the manner he did in the early church.
It seems problematic to me that one would strictly associate and assign spiritual gifts to only the apostles of Y'shua, when there is mention of many gifts being given to the churches, who are not all apostles. Where is it written that spiritual gifts (i.e., from the Spirit) are only "apostolic gifts"? Will not the same Spirit that raised Christ also raise us? Or is that only for apostles?
I find it enlightening that Paul could heal the sick and even raised the dead in the book of acts of the apostles but later in the apisles he couldn't or wouldn't heal his friend who was nigh unto death but God spared Paul much sorrow by healing his friend. Had the gifts started to fade even before the death of Paul?
I ask was it really that the gifts started to fade or was it beleivers' faith that started to fade?
There is no verse that says that spiritual gifts stopped operating. Time will come that we will no longer need it but the question is when? Even Paul Washer disagrees on John McArthur on this issue.
But he also said at least 95% who practice these gifts are not even doing it correctly which is sad
@@lilzachsmalls even if 100% of the people don't practice these gifts correctly, still it doesn't change the word of God. Culture and people change but God's word remains.
@@oxygentank00 yes it does. God's word also shows that there is a very strong case that these spiritual gifts were used to establish the foundation of the church and so that people may hear and believe the gospel.
@@lilzachsmalls what verse did you get that? If you can give me a verse that supports what you just exactly said, then I will agree 100%. If you are allergic with people using these gifts in extreme ways then count me in but this people does not take away the fact that Spiritual gifts still exists because no verse says that it ceased to exists. You just came to court without any evidence.
@@lilzachsmalls And the Bible is clear that you are to continue to seek the gifts and use them properly. But let's not be honest about that since it makes us so uncomfortable with our unbelief.
Padre Pio did miracles! Documented miracles! So you’re wrong!
He is quick to label others as false teachers; but what about him, when he is wrong? Doesn’t that make him a false teacher too? Better to stick to what he knows.
A good teacher is always open to learning more rather than expending all their energy into defending their own experience.
Ephesians 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
The Apostles were not just there for the beginning of the church...they are required for the edification of the body of Christ, which is the church today...
If the apostles ceased, then the same should apply to pastors, evangelists, teachers and prophets! McArthur's claims are simply not scriptural!
@@wycliffenyongesa3845
Absolutely.
@@wycliffenyongesa3845 good point
I don't understand why people get hung up on titles. Just share the good news and be done with it! Who cares what people call you!!
Well ...they are 2 'types' of apostles.
Apostels with capital A and with small a. There are no Apostles today (Acts 1:20-22, Eph 2:20 (past tense, you have only 1 foundation), 2Cor 12:12)
So today you can have apostles (small a) but thats just a name for messanger.
And ofc today you need pastor, preachers, teacher for the edification of the body of Christ.
I think his point was, that with the Apostles (big A) some of the miracoules gifts have ceased also.
Beacause there is no need for them, they were primarly to prove to others, that these were men from God. Same as with Mozes or Jesus (Ex 4:1-9, J 3:2)
Im not saying he is right or wrong, but I think this is what he meant.
Bye, have a nice day
what about the scripture that says, all these signs will follow them that believe?
Amen cessationism is unbiblical.
@@shara4455 Sorry, I have been debating all morning and I am cranky. They do happen, you just have to get around the right believers and churches.... I grew up and spent much of my adult life in churches that denied the gifts of the Spirit and therefore we never experienced anything miraculous... once I left and joined believers who believed God's Word concerning the gifts all that changed... I hope that helps.
@@shara4455 Playing one against the other leads to a spiritual desert. You will want to experience the fulness of God's Kingdom and be in obedience where the gifts are concerned once you are able to find a biblical balance. It isn't either / or all the time out there.... there are plenty of churches who teach the Word and enjoy the fulness of the Spirit as He manifests through the gifts etc... God wants to be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.... Word and Spirit is key.
Well…if these people believe that some who speak in Tongues are doing so by a demon, then they also do not have the dynamic Supernatural power to cast the demons out. Mark 16:17 states both Signs accompany them that Believe. I submit here Pastor John MacArthur’s Biblical definition of the Unpardonable Sin, “…the Unpardonable Sin of the Pharisees in Matthew 12, what was that. It is attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit. Remember that, it is attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit.” Listen, anyone who states Biblical Sign Gifts in a sermon, states that all Sign Gifts, (Ephesians 2:8,9 about being Born Again), says Sign Gifts from 70 AD until now are “All False, All Lies, All Deception,” and then only 1 minute later in that sermon states the Biblical definition of the Unpardonable Sin…well he really is on dangerous grounds with the Holy Spirit. The Sermon is, “The Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit,” and all of you can look it up on GTY website.
@@TruthLivesNow Excellent answer. It is astounding that people who claim to be Christians will do the very thing they acknowledge is wrong. If you go to a bible school or seminary (I went to both and graduated) they will have you take courses on interpreting the Bible. One of their main foundational teachings is that you build your theology on what God clearly says and commands. It is called "Prescription". So when the Bible says "earnestly desire the gifts...especially that you may prophecy" or "forbid not the speaking in tongues" they try to deflect their disobedience (read rebellion) against God's clear command (or Prescription) and instead will try to build their doctrine on man made theology. In this case, they try to use history (by manipulating it by selective use of data and other research error (manipulation = deception), or by accusing the charismatic world of error and misuse of the gifts which isn't honestly answering why all the semantical histrionics and gymnastics to avoid the truth of God's Word and their guilt of rebelling against it. Unfortunately their arguments erode even further by compounding their first sins into more like deceptively misrepresenting those who they hate, (hating your brother is a sin and it likely exposes the fact that you aren't really a believer according to 1 John), accusing the brethren = satan's work, and gossip, slander etc... Cessationism is a false doctrine that really is a doctrine of demons. It isn't what the Apostles taught nor does it embrace what God's Word clearly teaches. Those who peddle it are deceived and deceive others... not a good look... and frankly, they will be held accountable for it.
I honor and respect Pastor John, but he is mistaken in the piece about miracles only happening to authenticate apostleship. Miracles and signs and wonders are/were not (in the old and new testament) simply to authenticate apostleship. They are ultimately to glorify God, to show His power, presence and working among us. Therefore they can happen today because scripture does not point to cessationism at all and even St. Augustine, who is highly revered by reformed Christianity, changed his mind about the supernatural toward the end of his life. Of course, reformed circles probably never talk Augustine's changed views because it doesn't fit their narrative.
GOD'S WORD > denominational narratives
Those Who are cessationist have Never experience healings in their lifes ,I have Witnessed Miracles And I have Prayed when I was 16 over my sick nephew and My unbeliever Uncle witnessed his son Coming back as I prayed.
When Gospel loose Power It becomes a Philosophy.
MC Arthur has never been in a debate with a heavy Weight Apologist.
What could be a greater healing or miracle for a sinner like me than to be saved from the eternal death?
@@bishusalrai3196 Luke 5:20 And 24 it all depends how far you can believe
You can lay on that bed and be saved or Ask for mercy and allow Jesus to set you free from the Bed and be saved as well.
@@24132juanjcr If I can glorify God better from that bed then it's just fine because my soul has been set free through Christ for which I am grateful. It doesn't matter how far you believe but your body has to die one day. The assurance of eternal life is what matters most.
@@bishusalrai3196 amen if that’s how far your faith goes then amen..
The word Salvation from the Hebrew word originally implies more than soul salvation but setting free of the other things Such as debt,and ,slavery and Give back what once was Yours,Land or possessions or childrens sold
Into slavery the year of jubilee is Jesus in our life’s and he has Promised. Not everyone who desires a miracle will be healed under Gods Sovereignty is his Will firts than hours As Paul advised Timothy To drink Wine because his constant illnesses,Why He didn’t just Pray for healing as Is believe than apóstoles of Jesus Carry a Rain of Miracles as they walk.
How did you come to this conclusion. Cessationists do believe that God still work miracles in our lives on His term, time etc.
It’s sad how many of you blindly still believe In apostolic gifts, is scripture not enough? Is the miracle of Gods providence through means of today not enough? U guys are so desperate for a visible gift and sign, but in reality, u deny and forsake Homy scripture which attests and witnesses these mighty works of God already
The Didache or “Teachings of the Twelve” is from the late first or early second century (after the last of the 12 died) and still mentions apostles and prophets. There is actually a warning that a prophet should never be judged lest you commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Chapter 11:4-8
“Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven.”
What I don’t understand is how can you say that the signs have stopped when Jesus said that we would be able to go on and do greater things? So was the savior not telling the truth? I think not. I disagree
So we teach that Jesus liked to work more in past generations than the current generation. So when we see healings and outpouring of the Holy Spirit we must immediately call it heretical and dangerously claim the works of the Spirit as being false teachings. This is dangerous theology.
In the early days of the church, signs of supernatural grace were needed by the apostles to confirm the power of God, especially considering that during that time, the Bible, the word of God, was not accessible to everyone. In the present time, everyone can access or hear the word of God through various media. The Holy Spirit continues to work but not in the elevation of new prophets since all prophets foretold the coming of Jesus Christ to redeem humanity, and that is already accomplished.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13, ESV)
What do we see face to face, the bible... No sir He is talking about our Lord
I'm not a theologian, I haven't majored in church, but someone told me that cessationism was the norm before 1900. Is this true?
Maybe Catholics…?
True
@@iagoapioan8990 no Catholics have always been continuationist in a way that is unique from others. That’s why they believe in apostolic succession and that includes prophecy, tongues, and healings, and some other weird mystical things that have no scriptural basis.
Need to do a deep dive yourself into church history to truly answer that yourself & obviously ensure it line up the The Word.
True.
what about Timothy and Silvanus who were also considered Apostles? He gets title and function mixed up!
So the Greek word apostle is used to describe the original 12, another group of 70, plus Matthias and Paul - and then 11 others: Apollos (see 1 Corinthians 4:6-13) Epaphroditus (see Philippians 2:25; “messenger” is apostolos in the Greek) James, the Lord's brother (see Galatians 1:19)
I was sick thank God when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior. I was not just saved but healed.. as i keep walking in Christianity, I've seen many other beings healed as well. But these people talk about things that dont even know. What a death gospel they have
1 Corinthians 12:29 explicitly says that the members of the body of Christ, some who have various kinds of tongues, are not all apostles. 2 Corinthians 12:12 is not excluding non-apostles from these gifts. And I’ve been a cessationist, but I’m looking into these matters more deeply now.
I wish for once that these “cessationists” would point out the verse in the Bible that they get that the spiritual gifts have ceased. They can't that is why. The people they use as charismatic are not charismatic. They teach prosperity.
The gifts are still for today. Period!!!!
There is a Christian dispute that claims the Spiritual Gifts are not available to the Church after the Apostolic Age (Age of the Apostles). In short, it claims all powers, privileges, and proportions visible in the New Testament are reserved for a special few―not you, not me, not anyone after 100 AD. Cessationism demands that God is very much a respecter of persons and that every time Jesus Christ himself said “anyone” or “whosoever” or “any man”... well, he didn’t really mean “anyone” or “whosoever” or “any man.” The Messiah was just being hyperbolic. Cessationists reduce the New Testament down to a single supernatural event: being born again. Everything else is denied to you. This is nothing more than anti-supernaturalism masquerading as bad doctrine, or dogma. 〓 Let’s play a game and see how you like it. We’ll call it the Cessationist game. 〓 Next up: The Declaration of Independence: We (the Special Ones) hold these truths to be self-evident (to us, not you or your people), that all men (you don’t qualify) are created equal (except you), that they (the special people, not you) are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights (except you), that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness (none of which applies to anyone born after 1783). That to secure these rights (18th-century rights; not 20th or 21st-century rights), Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (but you have no say). That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends (you should just accept it), it is the Right of the People (again, 18th-century people―not you) to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government (one in which you’ll have no say), laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness (except your Safety and Happiness). 〓 One could argue a form of Cessationism-Denying clearly defined privileges in the Declaration of Independence-is what allowed men to perpetuate slavery up until the American Civil War (1865). 〓 Now tell me: is it still the Declaration of Independence? The answer is No. Nor is the New Testament truly the New Testament after insecure men get done redacting it to fit their ideological bias. God is the same, today, and forever. And so is His Love, His Son, His Spirit, and the Gifts thereof. 〓 Stop using your personal lack of faith, lack of experience, or cowardice in the pulpit to deny God’s Children the very resources and experiences He promised them. Your small-mindedness does not invalidate the shed blood of Jesus or the promise of the Spirit it secured.
Further, this is a philosophical word game. It's an unfortunate bait-and-switch. Many conflate the "Signs of the Apostle" which designate 1st-century eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus (such as Paul), with the "Gifts of the Spirit" available to born again believers.
what about sanctification? try again heretic
Faith, Hope, and Love, but the greatest of these is Love. Thank you for allowing us to comment. All video clips by GTY, John MacArthur, and Todd Friel, (Justin Peters is the exception), have all comments disabled on their presentations.
Due to idiotic people calling jmac a heretic with no Merritt.
"Forbid not to speak with tongues"... 1Cor.14:39... Exactly what many of these so called scholars are doing as if they have the final word on everything.
@@davidhess1019 with an order and interpreter , if there is none shut up. That's the issue !! There is none.
@@miguelescobar1338 You don't know what you are talking about. There are tongues and interpretation, tongues of foreign languages, tongues that no man understands, tongues of speaking mysteries to God. You must be one of those arrogant scholars?
@@miguelescobar1338 In the church, if there is no interpreter, be quiet, but the issue is not just tongues and interpretation.
I was waiting for him to mention a bible verse but he kept repeating a falacy that ceased years ago like 30 times 😂😂
You weren't listening?
I think this is a good proof text
ua-cam.com/video/ivorbqJIFjs/v-deo.html
Please listen again, he kept quoting scripture
The nature of the gift of tongues shows that it was only temporary. Speaking in tongues was one of the “sign gifts.” These gifts were given for only a short period of time. Their purpose was to confirm the Word of God before there was written Scripture. Every occurrence of tongues in the Book of Acts was to authenticate the gospel message.
The Old Testament did not need any confirmation by miraculous signs. It was already accepted as the Word of God. However this was not the case with the message of Jesus. The people had to be convinced that it too was a divinely given revelation. This is why we find the miraculous signs that were given.
Thus, it is argued that before the message about Jesus had been committed to writing its divine authenticity was accomplished through the miraculous sign gifts.
Once the New Testament was written, then the gift was no longer operating since its purpose had been served. The writer to the Hebrews states the word had already been confirmed at the time when he wrote. He wrote.
@@lyp8942Where do you base your claim?
Jesus is not a Cessationist. That word doesn't exist in the Bible.
Jesus quote "Yours is the Kingdom and The POWER.
Cessationists quote: the Power has ceased
I'm glad this video isn't longer, not sure how many more times he could plug his book.
👏🏽well said Dr.macarthur 😅used to be pentecostal but ive found the truth , glory be to God
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 This does approve or disapprove the stance on cessationanlism. This could all be show. Just a man saying things, pushing women, and women convulsing on the ground saying they feel something.
What verses prove cessationism ? Genuinely curious.
@@ShepherdMinistry well the lack of gifts besides tongues and very vague healings which are very hard to prove , I love pentecostal and charismatics but they use an un biblical use of tounges which Paul said theirs order for them in church. Simple church history as well proves the early church never really looked at gifts the way charismatics do. Charismatics and pentecostal recently started around 1900s when the exaggerated gifts that seem to have to purpose or sign was implied with lack of biblical knowledge. Both the early church and reformers never implied the continuation of gifts , and we know paul told us to keep the sound doctrine. I'm not an expert on these topics but I'd to hear your verses for continuation and verses that prove these reactions of the Holy Spirit and where in the bible the church displayed these behaviors
@@miguelescobar1338 1 Corinthians 13:10-13
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known
From my research cessationist use this verse to prove gifts have ceased. However this verse states when “face to face”.. which implies the second coming. Face to face is used in other verses to describe God. It also says the perfect implying Jesus. There’s no other verse I know of that proves cessationism.
For the ceasing of tongues what about this verse ? 1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
It seems this one talks about a prayer language people don’t understand . Thoughts ?
John MacArthur is a theologist . He is like the Pharisees who is denying the Holy Spirit and it’s Gifts. It’s not the Apostles gifts it is the gift from God himself to help save others so they may also believe. These type of leaders are the ones who leads many astray because they rely on their theology on own understanding and not God’s. Nowhere in scripture it says it has ceased. If it did then Gods words are not true at all then.
This is a mock to God. Just believe in the knowledge of God and pray for his wisdom and knowledge so you won’t be led astray
No, that's just not true, friend.
D.L. Moody, and R.A. Torrey were Christians that believed that Sign Gifts are valid for TODAY. The Scriptures are presented well in R.A. Torrey’s books, “What the Bible Teaches,” “Power for Divine Living,” “The Baptism With the Holy Spirit,” “How To Pray,” and “Why God Used D.L. Moody.” Pastor John MacArthur rejects the Scriptures given by the first Dean of BIOLA, RA Torrey where he graduated from! This Scofield-stuff was clearly rejected by Moody and Torrey, and Cyrus Scofield became Moody’s biggest mistake. One has to know history. Moody and Torrey considered Pastor John MacArthur’s teachings false.
Because they are false. Thanks for sharing.
Acts 1:21-22 tells us that an Apostle of Jesus Christ must have lived at the time of Jesus' earthly ministry.
When you see or hear these strange words, continuationism and cessationism, beware. Run. You are wasting your time. Both of them are wrong, because there are no such things.
Thus Saith El-Yahovah the Elohai of Heaven, and the Elohai of the earth, the Elohai of Avraham, Yitschaq, and
El-Ya'aqov, the King of Yisrael.
"Cessationism is not in my Word”…….
"Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise
prophecies,
1 Thessalonians 5:19-20
"And these signs will accompany those who
believe: in my name they will cast out demons;
they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up
serpents with their hands; and if they drink any
deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay
their hands on the sick, and thev will recover'
Mark 16:17-18
"Cessationism is not in my Word”
If God didn't say this to you , then you are a blasphemer .
I feel sorry for cessationists.
Yes and I pray God will have mercy. Very dangerous to teach against the Holy Spirit
I notice cessationists don't like to talk about healing miracles. Their unbelief just won't allow them to go there. Basically he just trashed the names of some of Christianity's greatest healing ministers. I wonder he would describe Kathryn Kuhlman or John G Lake or Smith Wigglesworth? Why doesn't anyone ever nail these ppl on things like that!
Because the people interviewing him and listening to him are ignorant of these living gifts, too. Definitely an echo chamber
Christian "tongues" are not "ecstatic utterances" as some claim, like those found in the pagan cult of Apollo in the 1st century. The Corinthians asked Paul (1 Cor. 7:1; 8:1) about converts who still did pagan "spirituals" (pneumatikos) (tongues prophecy and healing by a spirit). In response Paul reminds the Corinthians how they know these are very different from true charisma. Unlike the Holy Spirit, the demon spirits inspiring the "spirituals" controlled the will of those they possessed, and completely subverted their ability to think driving them to do incredibly stupid things however the spirits wanted to mislead them.
Paul then gives them an objective test that will positively identify the spirit controlling a "prophet", no one inspired by God says "Jesus is accursed' nor can demon spirits confess "Jesus Christ is LORD".
[This recalls John's "test the spirits" command in 1 John 4:1-3. ONLY while the spirit is speaking through the "prophet" can it be tested if it can confess "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh" or "Jesus Christ is LORD". If the alleged "prophet" is not under direct control of a spirit, humans can lie and confess anything they want.
From personal experience I testify this test works well when demons appear in dreams or visions. Any form demons take will vanish when the demand is made they confess "Jesus is LORD" or that "Jesus came in the flesh". Reportedly "alien abductions" end when abductees cry out to Jesus, therefore its certain the test would work in those situations also.]
Another fundamental difference the Corinthians should not be ignorant of, unlike different demon spirits inspiring different pneumatikos such as tongues, prophecy, and healing; there is only One Holy Spirit inspiring Christian charisma (1 Cor. 12:4-11).
Extracted from
What did the apostle John reveal when he said: "It is the last hour"?
endtimenews.net/it-is-the-last-hour-1-john-2-18/
These signs shall follow them that believe:….. once you cut off signs, the work of salvation also ceases.
Non sequitur
Wow, I'm shocked at how much MacArthur misrepresents continuationism.
2 cor 12:12 - the entire Corinthian church was doing signs? Was the Corinthian church all apostles?
All these arguments, bickering like school children--and this while, as the silliness continues, the world (those outside the church, with precipitous government approval, even taught by academia), stands with raised fist shouting, "God is wrong, sin does not exist and there is no need for salvation nor is there anything to be saved from except rebellion against the algorithm."
Father most holy in heaven...
Open our eyes. Give us recognition of the real enemy. Cause us to accept, believe in, and adhere to, John 17 wherein You pray for us to walk in the same oneness the Father and Son shared from before creation. In Jesus eternal name above all names I ask this.
I consider it blasphemy to believe a modern person can raise someone from the dead after 4 days like Jesus did with Lazarus. Of course there is no evidence this has happened even once since Jesus did it 2000 years ago but some people actually believe it happens.
The manifestations of the Spirit are despised by the carnal mind.
(Smith Wigglesworth quote)
"There must be no compromise with those who hate the supernatural, or they will draw us from the presence of the ark and cause us to cease to be joyful in the presence of the Lord. Our God is an active God. His thunder is just as loud today as it was in the first century. Take note of 1Thessalonians 5:19 "quench not the manifestation of the Spirit"
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:15, 17-18 KJV
What about this ☝️. how can you say spiritual gifts are no longer???🤔
How do you deal with the fact that these verses aren't in the earliest manuscripts?
@@BirchKST How did you come to that conclusion? How did the people that taught you that come to that conclusion? Study it and ask God to reveal you the truth.
In Acts 14:14 John McArthur… Barnabas AND Paul were both referred to as apostles (apostoloi) In the Greek the word in Acts 14:14 for apostle is the same one used in your 2 Corinthians 12:12 verse. When Paul is referring to the original 12 apostles he used the Greek word apstolos not apostoloi like he does in 2 Corinthians 12:12 when he was referring to Barnabas and himself. Apostle, as was original in the Greek, simply meant “messenger” that’s why Barnabas was an apostle. Paul was also a messenger but he was as well an original apostle which has a separate meaning altogether yet the same word.
I was healed and I personally know many who have been healed also. Must be the touch of the devil?
Devil comes only to destroy according to John 10:10. Jesus came to give life.
@@rijoab I was being facetious, because these guys act like God is dead.
@@davidhess1019 I just put the word in the scripture. :) . These teachers will say prayer can or may bring healing if it align with the will of God but they will not agree on healing powers.
One thing I know is they dont care about healing.
@@rijoab It seems the only time they mention the Holy Spirit is in their benediction.
@@davidhess1019 I don’t agree with their stance but from what I’ve learned about cessationism is there’s different levels of it (mild etc). They tend to believe God does miracles still as he’s God and can do what he wants. They just don’t believe in what they call the apostlic gifts. Just clearing that up
Has anyone considered that all of this bickering stems from the fact that we are in the last days, and the word says he will pour out his spirit on all flesh in the last days, perhaps the gifts did cease, and perhaps now in the last days, they are continuing .. perhaps there’s merit to both sides of the argument ..
Food for thought?
Those that spoke in tongues in biblical times actually heard the language they spoke in their native tongue is my understanding. That what we see and hear today is babble from false teachers--not coherent, translatable, or even relatable language known to humans or anyone in the spiritual realm. Prosperity Gospel is false teaching. MacArthur is right, none can claim that they are apostles in biblical terms today. Some have claimed to be prophesy, but has ALL what they prophesied come true? Was it specific? What was the punishment for those who angered GOD in the prophesy? Did those that angered GOD, receive immediate punishment for their disobedience? What comes from God is specific and is fulfilled in full, leaving no doubts.
I would say none of us today, after the last Apostle died has the gifts given from the Holy Spirit. They were baptized in Fire, and we are baptized by water. Our job in this modern day is to complete the Great Commission to await the fullness of the Gentiles and the End Times, our sign that our job is done is when the anti-Christ sets the abomination of desolation in the inner rooms of the 3rd Temple after the city of Jerusalem is seized. Will miracles be done in the End Times? Yep. A Non-profit GotQuestions answers a question, "Who are the Two Witnesses in the Book of Revelation?" Search there for further details.
What do you do with the scripture in Mark 16:17-18 [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. “These signs shall follow them that believe, In my Name, they shall cast out devils, Is this in reference to apostles or believers. I would be very surprised to discover A Cessationist able to pray the prayer of faith to heal the sick. It’s not in them. So I whole heartedly disagree with JM. He may be a great speaker, but he is wrong in this aspect of the Bible.
Mark 16-17-18
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
Jesus Said these signs will follow those who believe. It also says they will be saved. Reading it in context I don't know how you can argue that people who have " new tongues" adding something..
The Lord Said it.
@Isaiah Saldivar has read more Scripture just on his UA-cam channel than most people I know. But the same way you massacre ALL Charismatics I could say the same for Cessationists! I grew up one! None of them live holy in fear of God.. they all look like the world living in filthy sin in abundance. God's Word supports believing , holiness, and hearing God's voice far more than it does cessationism.
Has anyone heard of the continuist (as distinct from continuationist) method of Bible interpretation - defined as the premise that Christianity is the true continuation of the faith of the Hebrew patriarchs and prophets of antiquity?
i always note that cessationists SELECTIVELY IGNORE scripture . paul said there are DIVERSE KINDS of tongues . in one place he says when a man speaks in an UNKOWN tongue he speaks to God and NOT to man for NO MAN understands him. - so we see that john MacArthur is misrepresenting scripture AND what people say about it .
Sounds like John MacArthur has never looked into the work of Dr. John Deere. It's more Biblically sound than anything said in this video.
Is John MacArthur a cessationist?
And who shall I belive? Jesus or man?
We need to read the bible.
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
Mark 16:16-18
John Mac, you are basically saying that God do things even if he wanted to. You can't speak for God, John. He made the world and everything in it, He can do what He wants even a supernatural healing if He wants
Just go read 2 Corinthians 12:12 and interpret as you would any other passage
The Charismatics are not the only ones around.....how can you be so dogmatic?
Kenneth Copeland prays in “tongues”, do you think he has the Holy Ghost leading people to be money lovers and lovers of self?
@@corbinclarke9795 No, do you?
I wasn’t just the apostles that had the gift of tongues, is true, for example. But how come after the first century, that and also miracles ceased?? Clearly, now we have to God’s word, that’s enough for us. Yet, God is the same always, and miracles do happen. I’ve know people that had been healed of cancer, after that person and the church prayed. Although, we should be careful with what experiences we’re labeling as miracles.
And if you have to change the definition of the gifts of tongues or prophecy or healing to say these things are happening today , then there's the proof they're not. If you believe the apostolic gifts are still happening, just "not in the same way" as the Bible describes, then again there's your problem. Listen to the entire argument.
He mentioned 2 cor. 12 what about 1 cor 12
John MacArthur is making a serious error and is basically making a false dichotomy. The Bible in Acts actually shows non Apostles performing signs. For those who struggle with this please read the book of Acts and play special attention to signs being done and who is doing those signs. Of course there were lots of signs done by apostles but there is more than that going on.