Cessationism vs. Continuationism (John Piper)
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- Опубліковано 22 жов 2016
- "Are Signs and Wonders for Today?" Here John Piper compares and contrasts the two positions in an unbiased balanced fashion and brings forth what he believes are best arguments from both. Christians definitely ought to be bereans when it comes to this issue. It is a difficult debate. Of course, John Piper is a Continuationist and a brilliant scholar.
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A charismatic Christian came into my hospital room when I
was very sick and the doctors had already prepared my family for my soon coming
death. He laid his hands on me and prayed. I made a supernatural recovery to
the amazement of the hospital staff.
I am alive, and I am a Christian today because of this.
I congratulate you on your recovery. However, this type of story is told in almost every religion, does that make them true, and are the believers of those faiths justified in their beliefs?
@@equinoxproject2284 someone says I'm healed because someone actually laid hands like the Bible says and you say any religion can do that?? Have you ever seen a Muslim laying hands?? You are very funny, and close minded
Glory to God
Beautiful testimony of the healing power of Almighty God, through His Son Jesus, and by the Working of Holy Spirit. In the end, it was your Faith and the Faith of your minister that healed you. Thank you for having the courage to share your divine experience.
@@equinoxproject2284 Not at all because we know the origin of false miracles- demons.
I consider myself a continuationist in principle but the problem as i view it is that the current practices of many churches runs counter to biblical teaching models. Paul refers to tongues as the least of the gifts. If that is so then why is it pushed so much? I see the evidence of the baptism of the Spirit to be boldness and wisdom in the proclaiming of the gospel message, scripturally. When Paul writes about the gifts he asks "do all speak in tongues?" in a way that implies no. And he for sure admonishes the Corinthian church for all speaking in tongues during public service instead of prophesying. I do believe the gifts are for today but the way many are practicing is of the flesh and bringing the gospel into disrepute. And dont even get me started on the other false teachings like prosperity gospel and healing on demand, etc. It sure makes it tough to witness for Christ when people ask me to explain the circus like antics of some of these folks.
Joe Siegfried I agree completely. I feel like the words you wrote are my own.
I was "saved" in a upc church, where it is taught that the intial sign of receiving the holy ghost is tongues. However, the bible doesn't say that specifically that i know of. It does talk about the fruits of the spirit though. A change of character and becoming Christ-like...would this not be an indicator of being spirit filled?
I’m a cessationist but I couldn’t have phrased it better or have heard it phrased better on the opposite side of the argument.
I always seem to run into people who jibber-jabber in insane non-languages that claim to be “speaking in tongues” but do it outside of Biblical parameters. Do I believe it is possible to heal and to speak in tongues (other languages)? Absolutely...but I don’t believe what is happening in mainstream “Christian churches” is that what our forefathers did in the early church...
Your beginning to give place to a religious spirit soon you’ll say the gifts have ceased all together
Repent now
dorpicasso it’s what this Pharisees had, God is the same yesterday today and forever the gifts haven’t ceased and everyone knows it
You just need to press into God and actually have a relationship with him
I appreciate this video because in the last few years I have been struggling with this subject a lot. This is a very concise representation of the arguments by someone whose life and ministry I solidly trust. Thanks for posting it! Now, back to studying... ;o)
Watch the DHT course that brother Curry Blake gives... That will answer all your questions
I think it is laid out pretty clearly in Scripture that signs and wonders and the gifts of the Spirit are for believers, although the LORD distributed as He wills. Listening to cessationists argue their points is strangely reminiscent of devout Catholics arguing for their misguided doctrine. They lay hold of a few seemingly ambiguous verses and run a mile with them.
As an anecdote, I know that the times when I am both pursuing the LORD with diligence through prayer and regular Scripture reading, AND am hungry for the supernatural outpouring of the Spirit, my relationship with the LORD intensifies and deepens. The way I know is through the fruit of the experience. I become more bold in my ministry, more drawn to the things of God, more wholly exuding the fruits of the Spirit.. etc. If such experiences were demonically inspired, I am sure they would move me to fulfill the desires of my flesh instead. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
It seems that cessationists would like to place God in a box that they can, with enough diligence, wrap their minds around. While it is commanded to meditate on Scripture and the awe-inspiring attributes of God, we should never limit Him or His work through our own doubtful unbelief.
So I say always be open to the supernatural gifts of the Spirit (in fact, desire them, as Paul states), but do so with caution, always testing the charismatic with the truth of the Word. For example, any prophecy that elevates itself above or runs in contradiction of the Scripture should be rebuked and discarded. This can be found in many Charismatic movements, but don’t going throwing the baby out with the bath water as you move forward with discernment. Peace.
Bryan Garcia so true
Perfectly written!
BOOM! Also, I grew up in charismatic circles, and no one ever really brought forth the gift of discernment of spirits. And I wonder why? 🤔 I believe if I have a spiritual gift preeminent in my life, that’s the one, and the things I saw were not all from the Holy Spirit, I promise you that.
Amen
This is NOT "an open-minded, unbiased short video about the two positions from John Piper's perspective." Trinity Apologetic ends the video with "I love these kind of people," as implying that they were "correct." If you are really intellectually and spiritually sincere, please upload the whole sermon. John Piper is clearly in the circle he describes as the "group of evangelicals [which] believes that signs and wonders were not limited to the apostles or to that age, but are available for today and should be sought for the good of the church and the spread of the gospel." At the same time Piper says we also "ought to honor the uniqueness of Jesus and the apostles and of that revelatory moment in history"
Where would someone download the whole message and what's it called?
Proof not only Apostles healed during Jesus Life Mark 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name,[f] and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.”
39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me.
I think for most cessationists, the gifts ceased after the apolistic age meaning after the last apostle (presumably John) died
@@TheThunderkatana that's still doesn't address that point, because all the other none apostles who were working miracles could've died after the last apostle died. So when can they know exactly or even roughly when miracles ceased ?
tumbi97 how about when Apostle Paul wasn’t able to heal Timothy anymore and recommended that he take wine for his stomach pain?
@@megasuperawesomestuf Something tells me it's not because he was unable to heal him. This is the same Paul that said some have the gift of healing and prohecy a few books earlier. Unless you're saying the gifts ceased somewhere in Payls life?
tumbi97 Paul’s own words:
“Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
1 Corinthians 13:8-13
So, in short, yes.
Why is my last comment ghosted (visible to me when I log in but not to others to read). Did you do this or google/youtube?
Why is there even a debate about this point of doctrine. The issue can be very easily settled. Open a non-cessationist only hospital. Staff it with true believers with the power to heal. No doctors, no nurses, no radiologists, no diagnostic lab, no pharmacists, no clinicians, no emergency room, no operating theatres. Track the progress and healing of the sick, injured and dying and compare that with a hospital down the street. If the results are better, then bingo, I would say healing gifts still hold for today.
...this will be a good action, if not medical, research...
That would be testing God…
@@bjornlarsen7440 no it wouldn’t, it would be testing the claims of those that claim to have the gift of healing. If someone claims to have healed you is it testing God to go to a doctor and check if you are better?
continuation means that the canon isn't closed right? that new revelation equal to scriptures _continues_
No, only that the gifts of the spirit, for example the gift of healing, can still be used today
Oh no! Why didn't you let him finish? I'd LOVE to hear the next 5 minutes or so. That sounded like less than half of his conclusion. It was a great presentation and we appreciate you posting it, but is there a way we can hear "the rest of the story?" Thanks.
Pastor Rod agreed. Although I will speculate based on what I perceived to be conviction that Piper leans into continuationism.
Thank you, @@burtonsnow845 . From listening to Dr. Piper in other places I agree with you.
The person who created this video cut off the sermon right at this point.
"...these are my kinds of people"
I did some digging on Piper's website and found the sermon. The very next words are:
"but I don't find their arguments compelling. As hard as I try and as much as I agonize... I've said to these arguments, that won't work."
@@AnHebrewChild where is the actual sermon
Can Dr John Piper quote someone who has these biblical gifts as in the days of Apostles? Why in practical world we do not see? Many Gifts as such ceased, but God continues! God is not dead, he is alive. But his program changes. Can anyone refer anyone who has theses revelatory miraculous gifts AS IN THE BIBLE ?
That's because there isn't any.... only counterfeit. There's plenty of people out there who claim they have the real deal apostolic gift or gifts though. I've been in continuationism in the past for a good 30 years and people based their gifts on feelings mostly. For example they'd start a prophecy as I feel God is saying.... Tongues was not practiced as per what the bible teaches which was to edify the church and must be interpreted. It's not a prayer language as they think it is today. It is also the least of the gifts, whereas continuationists insist all believers should speak in tongues to demonstrate they are spirit filled. They have a very bad view of what Spirit filled is. You're right if these gifts are in operation today, they are not in operation as per written in the bible.... which to me means they're unbiblical.
Also the disciples, later the apostles, also had a process when it comes to the super natural. In Mark 9 for example they weren't able to cast out a demon. It is not like the apostles went from none to instantly everything perfect, they also had to learn.
Could that mean, that we as the body of Christ, are in the middle of a similar learning process again?
I have seen many miraculous healings and so on. Look up Pete Cabrera jr/Tom Loud/Tom Fischer/Todd White on youtube. God bless :)
Derek Prince , Mark Hemans.
Don’t you think the Israelites felt the same way when they were captive for 100s of years... not seeing something in our lifetime doesn’t mean it is not going to happen in the future.
Why would James exhort the sick to call the elders to pray/anoint them....and not to send a brother/sister to find a healer and "in faith" (the faith and works argument he is building) ask the healer to "heal" you? I can understand that the Apostles could 'share' their gifts with others (the laying on of hands, deacons, etc)… but what about when Stephen and Philip died, or could they also share this power through laying of there hands -- appears unlikely.
Many think 1 Cor 13 speaks of the cannon being written and "then the perfect" came - so the apostolic gifts retreated. I wonder, though, if the plan of God was first for the signs and wonders to attest to the "new revelation" and promote the heralds of it. Knowing that Jesus would return to the Father, and that the Apostles would die (mostly through martyrdom, early); that the same reason for Moses putting down the Pentateuch was much the same reason for the New Testament to have been "carried by the Spirit" to be written.
a couple cents from this corner.
Joel 2:28-32 King James Version (KJV)
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Why was it cut? I wanted to hear his ending
I would like to hear John's conclusion, does anyone know how to obtain it?
Yes there is a link at the top under the video which gives the full sermon. John Piper is a continuationist pastor so you can guess what his conclusion will be.
I am not seeing the link you refer to anywhere around under or on top of the video. Could you possibly send me the link, it would be greatly appreciated.
Finally found it thank you, no need to send the link. Thank you for your helpfulness.
Can you send me the link please? @@RandyHarveyWCPSESQ
I don't believe that it is all that difficult. The gifts of Spirit were given to the church for it's edification until Christ returns - this is clearly stated in the scripture. There is no verse that clearly states that the position of Cessationism has replaced these scriptures. This is the Biblical case of these two positions. All other argument on this subject falls into the category of arguing from experience, not the Bible's statements. There are reasons and discussions to be had about why we may or may not seem to be experiencing Continuationism, but there is no argument about what the scripture states. Responses? Be Blessed
"... _but there is no argument about what the scripture states_ ." I beg to differ: How about _2 Pet. __1: 19_ which I believe explains that we once were in need of 'signs and wonders' like the transfiguration to which Peter refers as an eye witness (in 2 Pet. 1: 16b) and also the audible voice for the benefit of the apostles when Jesus was baptized (in 1: 17). So Peter explains to the churches in 1: 19 that we now [post signs and wonders] have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention..." I understand this to mean that expository preaching of the Spirit-breathed Word of God is what we can more fully confirm. This is work that transforms souls. Lazarus was brought back from the dead, but died again. Salvation is everlasting--big difference between what God's word will produce (salvation) and the mere 'seal' confirming its authority (healing).
Miraculous healing may come about via responses to prayer: God is sovereign, but such responses are not normative today, reason Luke may have referred to his post-resurrection account as the _ACTS_ of the Apostles.
My two cents...
LenGarden agree with you len. The written word of God is already with us and complete. We just need to believe it and propagate the teachings and saving more souls through the gospel
Josette DC the thing is we can say we believe the bible but we can just believe our own interpretation of it
Josette DC But we're saved by grace through faith, so if the gift of faith is no longer here, salvation isn't either? Huh. Isn't Salvation a miracle. If you believe God raised Jesus from the dead thou shall be saved? You mean people are supposed to believe in the resurrection of Jesus from the dead but not miracles? Huh? Or tongues? Which is the hardest to believe? With the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth, does this include our tongues,? Confession is made unto salvation? Are you talking about the other languages the apostles spoke in the upper room? Every language under heaven! Jews who spoke different languages from every country in the world was there. What tongues did Paul speak in Damascus? Word of wisdom or word of knowledge no longer exist either? Man what does exist. Or should I say, what do exist? lol 😂
LenGarden excellent answer!
This does not sound like John Piper to me. Is this a young John Piper talking? Hard to tell when it is only the audio.
this is what he sounded like in the 80s
What song is played at the beginning?!
Pastor John, consider the implication of 1Cor 2: 4 & 5, becoming the standard for all new testament ministries.The church fathers knew this and steered away protectively of their own interests. The allegiance to the emperor Constantine would have included every church authority. In the mix, " Give them a God more easily understood". My opinion anything of the Spirit in manifestations of good works, stamp it out. To acknowledge God within us and joined to us, such people could not be controlled.
@ marknewman7962
This is somewhat uncharitable regarding their motivations. They did teach that miracles continued, including Augustine (although he said that tongues ceased because their time had finished), but their focus was more on preserving doctrine from heresies that abused “God told me”, and ideas attacking the deity of Christ. If you actually look into the lives of the church fathers from the 200s-300s, they didn’t get any power from this and often were persecuted and martyred themselves. Their priorities at the time were different, which is understandable considering the commands to contend for the faith handed down.
Constantine was far from perfect but he also had just come to power at a time when Rome was unstable, and felt that he had to do whatever it took to ensure that Rome wouldn’t fall back into instability (his impact on theology is minuscule tbh, besides calling the Council of Nicea, at which he just wanted agreement on something).
Constantine isn’t a hero or a villain. He was just a Roman emperor stuck in a difficult time and situation and it’s hard to say what we would actually do differently in his position at the time.
This in my view, in Matthew 28:16-20, the following "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you..." says it all.
I don't understand why cessationists consistently point only to the miracles of the apostles, as if they were the only ones being used in the gifts. The gifts weren't just given to the apostles, but to the Church. I address a few of their other arguments in my latest video.
Well it doesn’t matter as the “gifts” today cannot be compared to the gifts of the early church. None of the things being done today is even close to the gifts that was pour out unto the early church. They are all counterfiet
Is the gift of walking on the water for today? After all Jesus never said it would cease why then isn't it happening? Answer that and you'll know why gifts of healing and tongues are not now given.
That you have not seen anyone walk on water does not mean they're not for today. Same question should be asked to Peter. He continued the ministry of Christ Jesus as He did it. But did he walk on water aside when He did it with Christ? Apply that to healing. You're not making any sense.
I’m not a continuationist for the simple fact that I’ve never seen anyone do anything supernatural.
This is a poor reason to be a cessationist. Your doctrine should be based upon Scripture, not your experience.
Have you ever seen God? Have you seen heaven? Hell?
Joseph Martin Lowsky I don’t believe Scripture teaches continuationism. And God and Heaven and Hell are different than miracles, ‘cause they’re immaterial. If miracles were happening I’d be able to see them with my own eyes. I’ve been a Christian since I was young and have spent my whole life around Christians. If continuationism were true, I really doubt that I wouldn’t have seen at least one supernatural thing happen in the 28 years I’ve been around Christians.
This is still an argument based upon your experience.
I agree with you Steve. I've been around christians since I was 6 years old. I spent 30 years in the word of faith church who of course believe in continuationism along with rotten core theology. The sign gifts that they believe in as per 1 Cor 12 are not practiced as per what the bible teaches so therefore they're unbiblical. Like you, I have yet to see the true sign gifts in operation. So far I've just witnessed the counterfeit. I haven't been in the word of faith or NAR churches since 2009. I used to be a believer in continuationism and now my views have changed and I believe the bible supports the cessationism view. The mistake that people make though is the belief that cessationists do not believe in the power of God and are not Spirit filled.... that view they hold is gnosticism. Also the fact we do believe God heals today. People who call us unspiritual or dead have poor understanding of scripture in my view.
You haven't seen Jesus. Hitler. Lincoln. Your Great great great grandfather.
The real issue is what God's word says.
Why did you end their?
Are you being deceptive in your cutting John Piper's sermon short? This makes me question your honesty brother! Because you cut it off right at the point where (in John Piper's original sermon - I searched it out because I realized you had cut it off before it was over) He says, "... I love these kind of people. These are my kind of people [you cut it off here] However JP immediately continues and says, "but, I don't find their arguments compelling. As hard as I try and as much as I agonize... it never has worked for me." If you are a man of God, then you must explain this or else I will have to conclude that you are being purposely deceptive by your editing. I would have preferred if JP had made the case that it isn't compelling if you are basing your argument from the Bible, but I understand that it is hard for him to say to all these people he loves that they are pushing a doctrine of man instead of a doctrine from the Scripture. Be Blessed.
I understand your feelings brother but there is no deception at all. I posted the link to the full sermon in the video description from the beginning. Anyone can listen to the whole thing if they choose. I simply wanted to make an open-minded, unbiased short video about the two positions from John Piper's perspective. I probably should have included the part where he said 'but I don't find their arguments compelling.' I actually thought about it later. But I didn't want to make it seem like I was promoting one view or the other. I think everyone knows already that John Piper is not convinced about the Cessation arguments.
Fair enough brother. I actually thought that this could be your reasoning after I posted my response. But for my two cents perhaps you should have just left off all of his conclusion rather than partial... Not everyone on the Internet knows JP. Anyway I appreciate your response and it is now part of this site so thanks and be blessed.
John Roper Thank you so much brother! Yes I think I regret leaving out that part of the video. I should've let the audience know clearly what Piper believes. I'm still open minded about this debate. I need to keep praying about it. By the way, are you a Calvinist?
No was raised reformed but over many decades of study have come to believe that it is not the correct biblical understanding. Are you calvinist?
Hello again brother. Sorry for the slow reply. Please watch this video of mine to find out ;-)
'Are You Deciding Between Calvinism and Arminianism?' : bit.ly/2eL0RkR
Did you cut the video short? That's not how he ends his sermon - "I'm going with this side cause these are my kinds of people." Thumbs down for deceptive editing, even though the sermon was good. Seriously. "Trinity Apologetics?" What kind of apologist makes their case by deceiving?
That intro song was enough to turn anyone off this video without giving it a hearing
I kind liked the intro. It’s great hear music from any genre giving glory to God
But because you cut the speech short we don't know who these kind of people are because he doesn't say and you didn't allow the video or the speech to go to the end so this entire video is null and void
John 14:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
If you throw out part of scripture as relating only to the Apostles, you can throw out ALL scripture because then none of it applies to us today. It wasn't given to us.
16:00~
19:40
21:18 acts 6:8 Phillips the Evangelist, Galatians 3:5, 1 cor 12:9~, :28
I appreciate that you give Scripture references brother. I am a continuationist because: Jesus Christ the same, yesterday, and today and for ever. Heb. 13:8
...why did nobody prophesy about the covid-19 so that people should have prepared and prevented this pandemic?...
John Piper said that no ministry ever moved like the apostles....here is a small list of people who did:
Please read the Book: God's general by Robert Liardon
In Wayne's grudum's Systematic theology he shows that not just the 11+Paul were called Apostles. That is a fatal flaw for the Cessationists. Not to mention that prophets (lower case p) were all over the place in the early church. Disappointed with JP, he is normally such a careful thinker.
I am cessationism LOL however if im sick or in the hospital please find me a Continuationist hahaha
LOL EXACTLY 💯😅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
And these signs shall follow them that believe in my name, facial cast out devils, They will lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, They will speak in new tongues And if they drink anything deadly it should not harm them!
i believe in sign and wonder i believe in the holy spirit when i was young i spoke in tongues i saw a vision of a man he has on black and Red i had see people in white pray for me
there are to many debates that don't get anywhere, and rap music? why don"t you play bad moon rising c.c r, because I feel one coming on,, why can't we go by the evidence , God's given us a sound mind hasn't He? there is no overwhelming proof that miracles of this nature exists ,only very dubious but well meaning claims that don't seem to able to be verified , but I do admit we need some of those
miracles today ,because there is such need even for the true believers,
Justin Martyr, c. A.D. 150
(Dialogue with Trypho 39) Understanding, counsel, strength, healing, foreknowledge, teaching, and the fear of God are mentioned as being gifts that were in operation at the time, which are "illuminated through the name of Christ", by the Holy Spirit.
Irenaeus, c. A.D. 185
(Against Heresies V:6:1)
Irenaeus makes it clear that the gift of tongues is still in operation at that time among them who have received the Spirit of God.
Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 190
(Miscellanies IV:21)
Knowledge, life (raising the dead), preaching, righteousness, purity, and prophecy are mentioned as as being the gifts that were being operated in at the time among believers.
Cyprian (Bishop of Carthage, 248-258 A.D.) spoke and wrote about the gift of prophecy and the receiving of visions from the Holy Spirit.
(The Epistles of Cyprian, vii.3-6, ANF, 5:286-87; vii.7, ANF, 5:287; lxviii.9-10, ANF, 5:375; IV.4, ANF, 5:290)
Ambrose, A.D. 381
(On the Holy Spirit II:13:150)
Healing and Tongues are mentioned and received by Christians at that time from the Holy Spirit, "Each, according to his capacity, receives that which he either desires or deserves."
This is just 5 of the people in church history well after the Apostles, but there are also and abundance of accounts of saints throughout history of raising the dead or casting out demons.
The idea or notion that "history shows cessationism" is not historical
This issue is why I’m leery of John Piper. I know he has great teachings but I shy away from him because of this.
The primary argument for cessationism wasn’t addressed.
The argument for cessationism is that these gifts are limited to the age of the apostles.
Pastor Piper rightly stated this, but then went through an entire episode of trying to make a case for those apart from the apostles who also healed and performed signs and wonders. These are acknowledged by cessationists generally. That isn’t the cessationist argument for cessation.
Those who performed signs like Philip, Stephen, and others throughout the time of Christ, the disciples and the 70, only confirm the fact that in the period of the writing of the canon God was working signs to confirm the word, as He did also with the prophets on the OT.
No evidence was provided to show that it continued post-apostolic fathers, nor in the latter part of the first century, nor all through to the council of Nicea in 325AD. We don’t see any evidence of modern secularism being the cause of the lack of evidence for cessation since the entirety of history until the modern era predominantly practiced sacralism and often lived in loose or strict religious states.
In fact, the most part of history shows that men were deeply superstitious. So, that argument fails.
JP needed to show that after the apostolic age, and even at the latter part of the apostolic age, that signs were normative. In the latter part of the apostolic age we see Trophimus was left sick by Paul, 2 Tim 4:20, Timothy was asked to take a little wine for his…”frequent infirmities (stomach’s sake)”.
When the word was concluded, like manna, the signs ceased as a normative thing in the church. I didn’t see any evidence against that being presented.
He began well in outlining some of the issues from the cessation side but didn’t carry it through to how they also debunk the continuationist argument.
I don’t blame him for it, for is he truly understood the scope of the argument against continuationism he’d probably be a cessationist too.
Nevertheless, JP is one of those preachers whom I’ve learned a lot and keep learning from his wealth of teachings that are on line with scripture.
I was only able to see a blank screen to which did he think were the more scripturally correct?
I KNOW Jesus still heals as thats how I came to know Him! In my bedroom one day (I knew no christians and I wasnt christian myself so I hadnt been primed or influenced) I called out His name to take my panic attacks away (I cant even tell you where His name came from...it just came out of my mouth!) and in a milisecond I was healed! Ive havent been the same since...thank goodness! My life is completely transformed. The reason Im watching this is because James taught that if we are sick we should call the elders etc my own church remains silent on this but who was James instructing and WHY was he instructing anyone if it was to cease? Just my humble queries xx
Helen Brown amazing testimony... God bless you
Give me a biblical definition of each of the gifts. We may not fully understand what they were and are making a lot of man made assumptions. I’m a Christian and have yet to hear a BIBLICAL definition of the gifts. Just a though for all theologians to consider. We may not be as smart as we think we are. 😊
aint that deep bro. mark 16 answers all that, pretty carefully.
Although it has already been said, I take issue with your cutting off his final comment on this, causing it to appear that he had come to the conclusion of "the first stack" when he was actually commending those for being godly men who were sincere in their belief. Others, having heard the comments he said afterward, as well as comments that he is currently making now in his teachings, demonstrate that he is of the opinion of "the second stack". Your omission of this is NOT speaking the truth in love, but rather protecting your position through omission. I pray that you will reconsider what you have done here. I have no problem if you are convinced that the gifts were for apostolic affirmation only and that they are currently no longer operative. But I hope that the omission you made to protect this belief will sear your conscience until you repent for this is not the way of Truth brother. The Lord be with you.
I think the cessation argument was stronger.
Hard to side with continuationists since none of them can raise anyone from the dead, heal on the spot, or speak in an "angelic" tongue. Also, this denies that canon is closed. This leads credibility to Mormonism and the like. Frustrating to hear this. i have yet to hear a continuationist rebut these issues.
Travis Maldonado your joking. I personally know a pastor in Australia that has raised someone from the dead and it happens often around the world as Gods using many ministries in many different was. What’s your definition of an angelic tongue? Pray in tongues long enough, for myself over 25 years there are definitely times when you know that your praying with an angelic tongue, but you would not understand as your not open to the gifts of The Holy Spirit. It’s also heretical to consider that the biblical canon is not closed, so what are you going on about? thus as I know the gifts continue I think all your claims are false and you really have to do some proper research on the subjects. I am alive today because of healing ministry having been given under a year to live some 11 1/2 years ago due to high grade brain cancer. Every day is a gift from my Lord.
@@nickhybner8485 cult
My interpretation of scripture is not based on experience but on scripture. I am a continuationist. I do not need to rebut your issue because it is not a biblical argument but an expediencial one, friend.
@@andyb619 Although we can trust the senses (Thomas Reid) we also must recognize our experiences can and do deceive us. All other religions have what you claim as well. But scripture trumps your experience.
I agrée. However the tongues in spiritual gifts are not angelic languages but languages of men.
i am not a cessasionist and i acquired my gift of tongues in a orderly and decent way as what diacusses in 1 corinthians.. i talk to God in mysteries and I speak it privately or in fellowship of believers..
So. The continuation side pokes all kinds of holes in the cessation side. Also I'd like to point out that Paul wasn't an apostle in the same sense. He had an encounter with the Lord and was sent out. Why would he be randomly included in that as well? And everyone else. It just doesn't make sense to be on the cessation side to me. And to those who say they don't believe because they haven't seen it.. Let the truth define what you see not what you see define the truth. I recommend some Charles Finney as well.
Listen to mahash chavda raising someone from the dead. Reinhard bonke raising someone from the dead. Daniel kolenda raising someone from the dead. The lord raised me from the dead and other incredible miracles.
...sorry but those who have been given the gift of healing today shall go to all the very ends of the earth and heal the covid-19 patients...
I say this in love....I believe if we spend less time in study seeking to deny God of his sovereign power, and turn that study time into seeking Him in His Word and Prayer to draw near to Him and grow our faith through Him, we may all be shocked of the outflowing of His grace. I have first hand witnessed miracles with witnesses with me. I did not do it, nor did I pray for it , but God made it happen to His Glory and I never doubted he could before nor after. They were used as witness to different people including myself as a way by God to bring Glory to Himself and to promote His promise of Salvation. No man on earth will take away my belief that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever!!! Glory to Jesus!!!
If I were sick, I would not go John MacArthur for the laying on of hands, anointing with oil, and for a Prayer of Faith. But I WOULD go to John Piper for this.
John Macarthur does believe God heals people but there's not a heal-ler
@@infiniteepoch8 Wouldn't you rather have the sober mind of Jesus Christ and the Healing He promised in the Scriptures in James 5:14-16?
@@infiniteepoch8 You have not received it.
@@infiniteepoch8 I know it's not a light matter. My 12 year chronic disease wasn't either. That is why I am here trying show people the way to follow the Word as written in Scripture and be healed. And I'll say it again.... if you want miraculous healing, follow James 5:14-15 and find 2 spiritually and scripturally qualified Elders in the Body of Jesus Christ who are willing to obey James 5:14-15....and if you need help finding 2 qualified Elders, I would recommend you to go find them at the Church such as where John Piper preaches, not where John McArthur does......He doesn't believe God uses 2 Elders to heal, as the Word says. It takes 3 people who believe this to obey it and receive healing. And there's only 2 of us here, and I am not an Elder, so may God bless you and keep you. I hope you receive the same healing I received from the Lord thru His Elders at the Church of Redeemer in Indianapolis.
Also, when Peter needed to know the gentiles were part of the salvation story, the gentiles received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues
And they didn't need baptism for salvation nor were they beholden to Jewish dietary laws.
@@equinoxproject2284 then why did Peter baptize the Gentiles if it were not necessary? In fact, Peter immediately COMMANDED that they be baptized. “And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Acts 10:44-48
Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, also ordered baptism. In fact, he ordered people to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of The Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:6
Peter and Paul (and all the other Apostles) had to baptize all people (Jew & Gentile) because they were commissioned to do so. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost.” Matthew 28:19. The Apostle Mark also received this commission: “And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…”. Mark 16:15-16. Does that sound like Jews only? Jesus said it’s for everyone! Lastly, compare Luke 24:47 to Acts 2:38 and you’ll see that repentance and baptism is for the remission of sins, beginning at Jerusalem and then spreading to the entire world.
The Bible is clear in each of these verses, Baptism is essential for both Jew & Gentile. Jesus commissioned it and the Apostles commanded it. We deny baptism for the remission of sins at our own peril.
Our Lord said, These signs shall follow those whom believe, he never put an end date on it.
Maurdib I believe but those signs don't follow me.
@@GregRickard Same here.
Paul is the last Apostle...the disciples are encouraged to have tongues, prophecy...
I am appalled that you would purposefully edit the video and cut it short. I believe you insult a lot of people’s intelligence by doing that and it will cause me and others to question your integrity, character, and motives. I’m not offended, just shocked and disappointed. Please “tighten up “ and be better. Truth is truth, it doesn’t need your help to edit it and doctor it up.
I think to heal as Christ and the apostles did, it seems that it must be in service of spreading the word of God, performed by someone who has no doubt, and ideally received by someone who has complete faith it will occur. There are cases of the apostles themselves failing at healing, due to lack of faith. If those who spent years with Jesus and witnessed hundreds of miracles can fail by lack of faith, then how much more difficult must it be for one of us, in a world where we deeply doubt miracles in the modern age, even in the church. This is a common formula seen in the scriptures, thought not without exceptions. It must also not serve as a means to replace faith of people by having "proof" via a healing. What that means to me is that if you try and broadcast a healing, or bring renown to God through evidence of a healing, it won't work. Just as Jesus did not demonstrate his power when put before the teachers of the law, of his own choice. The chances of finding such a person of faith and belief, and providing they work within formula outlined above, narrows the probabilities so much that in the modern day it is practically not possible to heal as the apostles did. However, God still does miracles, such as healing, through our prayers.
Wether they continue or not is Not of first importance. Why do people stress over this? God will do whatever He wills. The most important thing is the Gospel. Believe and Repent! That is what is first and foremost!!
What about the ministry of Reinhard Bonnke? (Christ For All Nations) Billions of salvations and probably hundreds of thousands of miracles if not in the millions.
So you want me to like your channel and subscribe and all that but you cut the teaching so you did a disservice to us right because we’re listening to this to be educated and well you did a short sale. Anyway God bless and Jesus is Lord!
Smith Wigglesworth was in the healing minitry who lealed on the same level as the apostles and he even raised people from the dead please search him sermons
Emmanuel Mamabolo He was a false teacher.
I am curious, (and I do mean this, I don't know what the man taught) what were the false teachings which Mr. Wigglesworth taught?
Emmanuel Mamabolo Anytime someone doesn't understand something they call it false. Salvation is about raising someone from the dead. So if you don't believe that you're not saved anyway. Btw people saw Jesus raise Lazarus's from the dead and didn't believe that. So you just can't please everyone.
Wiggles worth physical punched people. And no one can verify his ministry.
he actually didn"t raise any body from the dead , he was a heretic,sorry, to disappoint ,and Iv.e read all of his works, so you don;t know what you are talking about, he actually didn't heal anybody , it is you who have to research probably,
Yes it helps to listen not that i want you to go to sick people for i do not wish you ill
Faith without works is dead. We don't do works to earn salvation, but our faith will produce works... such as sharing the gospel, casting out demons and praying for miracles. Miracles do happen today... life itself is a miracle. If you believe you are saved then that is a miracle. My husband has prayed for a couple of people and they have been healed. He did it simply for the people he has worked for during his business, and he has offered to pray for people who have needed surgery. God showed his faithfulness and encouraged my husband by healing these people... simple... daily life... daily walk.
I believe in a continuism, but I think you are wrong by saying your husband healed those folk madam. No man can do such miracles not even the apostles! That's why cessationist got it all wrong because they think that the miracles where only done by the Apostolic times and they are giving the credits to the chosen apostles like Peter and Paul as if they are the one who does the healings. And I believe that's is a stupid mentality. Remember Jesus only made miracles when the Holy Spirit came into him, at the same time d apostles did the same when they recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. So power, signs, healings and any form of gifts can only be attributed to the Holy Spirit which is the power of God. That's why it's part of the Trinity. those three persona had to do their own part so we can have chance to make it and endure till d end. The Father did his part, Jesus did his part, now as Jesus promise that when he leaves. The comforter will come. Now THose miracles that's existing now, is the part of the Holy spirit. So if your husband pray for those people it doesn't mean he healed them.but it's always God Jesus and d holy ghost who's always behind it. God bless
Apostle Paul says: 1 Co. 14:18 "I THATNK GOD THAT I SPEAK IN TONGUES MORE THAN ALL OF YOU"
AND AGAIN: PAUL SAYS: 1 CO. 14:39 "Therefore,...be eager to prophesy, and DO NOT FORBID SPEAKING IN TONGUES."
This sounds like a christian jerry seinfeld
Both sides have strong points.
Speaking JUST of this video's comparison alone, I find error in the teaching of Cessionalism, but I found none in the teaching of Continualism.
Cristiano Ronaldo melhor jogador de futebol do mundo...
You know why we don't see as many miracles today? Because people aren't as obedient as the disciples were. How many heard what Jesus said when his disciples couldn't heal that little boy? And they asked Jesus why they couldn't heal him when his father brought him to them?
Jesus said because of your unbelief and THIS KIND COMETH NOT OUT EXCEPT BY FASTING And PRAYER! How many days did Jesus fast? How many days did Moses fast? Now how about you, mr unbeliever? How many days did you fast and pray and asked God to fill you with the Holy Ghost and heal that child any child that needs healing that's who!!!
Ronnie Bishop Except the apostles didn't fast 40 days, but were given power to do miracles. They couldn't cast out some devils, sure, but neither did they have the faith and i guess, power, that Christ did. Can you imagine the annointing he had?
Greg Rickard He said the reason was because this kind cometh not out except by fasting and prayer.
To believe that the power of God, in the form of miracles through His followers, is "no longer active" is unbiblical. To say that living and doing good works according to "good theology" is enough, is to have a form of godliness but DENY its power. It's amazing to me that anyone who claims to have been intimate with the Lord and truly believes all things are possible through Christ, can also claim to have NEVER seen a miracle. Wake up, "step off the edge of the cliff", and put all your faith in Jesus Christ, and just wait to be amazed at how powerful our God really is. Stop waiting for a UA-cam video or a church service to prove it. I've personally seen quite a few miracles, some of which were performed through me by the power of my faith in Jesus.
I agree with you.
Cessationism does not require one to believe God no longer does miracles or healing but it denies that miracles or healings are a spiritual GIFT that one possesses. I am very weary of any teacher that demands we stop testing their teaching. I do think it's a valid question as to why all of those who claim to be healers can only perform unverifiable or easily faked healings (ex: one foot shorter than the other). Don't dismiss someone's discernment as denying God's power. Many cessationists believe God still does these things, but not that people posses these as gifts. Divisive language is not helpful for truth-seekers such as myself. It's not wrong to question a person's experience and to take it to what we see in Scripture.
If we take a 100 newly converted christians with absolutely no theological standing and place them in a 100 different rooms for a year where each of them will be exposed only to the Bible and prayer, I promise you that all of them will come out continuationists because cessasionism is found nowhere in Scripture. You can only become a cessasionist by encountering one, NOT simply by reading the Bible.
You can become a cessationist knowing that the signs had ceased to exist until…….the charismatic movement exploded in the 20th century with all false prophets, demonic teachings from hell and false signs and wonders along with it. And none of the modern signs is even comparable to the signs in the early church.
Well if you look at 1st Corinthians's 12, there's a list of 9 gifts of the Holy Ghost that the Holy Ghost gives out severally as he, the Holy Ghost Wills. Faith, Prophecy, Words of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge, Miracles, Discerning of the Spirit, Tongues, the Interpretation of Tongues, Healing, The greatest miracle is Salvation, so miracles still exist. We're saved by grace through faith, so faith still exist. Do we prophecy? Look up prophecy and you will see that we do. So a message inspired by God is prophecy! Do preachers do that? Baptist do I've heard them. Now what about speaking in tongues, this is very controversial. Well if this gift no longer exists does that mean the others I mentioned have left too? I think that Azusa Street in 1904 was people speaking in tongues for several years, in California! I just don't see how these gifts left! Are people saying that the apostles needed help with these gifts but we don't? These gifts are no longer needed because our church knows more than Peter and Paul and the rest? So the Holy Ghost left with the apostles? So salvation is Gone? Without faith it's impossible to please God and faith is a building block of salvation!
This could help alot of ill people
I have found that those who are cessationist, are usually those whom have never experienced the "New Birth", according to John 3:3. These type rely on their carnal intellect. They are not lead of the Spirit of God, nor can they be, for they have rejected the Spirit who reveals all truth.
I agree
SPEAKING IN TONGUES PART 2
As I flipped through my bible(Holy), I discovered man may want to use KNOWLEDGE (filthy) to explain the word(living- highly spiritual) and may get it very, very WRONG. As I flipped my bible(Holy), I discovered that on the day of Pentecost, the brethren were all in ONE ACCORD(LOVE, FAITH) and suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing wind, and filled all the house where they were sitting. Now, if a man of knowledge (filthy), picks up his bible and reads this literally, he will get it very, very WRONG. What does it to be in One accord, sitting down? Okay, this is what it means: a man left his house and told his disciples that he was coming back to them although not in the COMPLETE PHYSICAL REALM, but a realm next to the physical. He will COMFORT them and will manifest himself through them by miracles, signs and wonders. Now, how can he do this if not through his SPIRIT(HOLY GHOST)! Yes, his spirit is called the HOLY GHOST, and the Spirit of the father(Jehovah) is called the HOLY SPIRIT. Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit can never, never be the same. The ghost of a man(Christ) and the Spirit of a man(Jehovah) can never, never be the same. They are one in TERMS of LOVE and only LOVE and not power. Now talking about Holy Ghost and Holy Ghost, it is used interchangeably in the bible but it is the WILL of God at these last days to expose MYSTERIES hid from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD. Although the greatest Mystery is the death and resurrection of the great king(Jesus Christ). Now talking about Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, even Professors of Theology do not know this, unless if they go online to read books of the writer, or still, read this piece. Now evil spirits and satan(third personalities in the world of darkness) is not the same, likewise Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost can never, never be the same. The Spirit (Holy) of the father (Jehovah) is like a million soldiers of a King(Jehovah). He(Jehovah) gives them order(holy) and they obey. His spirit (holy) is also along the tunnel of hell, to turn souls of men back(from the tunnel) and his Spirit is in the form of BIRD. Now Holy Ghost cannot be in form of bird along the tunnel of hell. The Spirit of a man(Jehovah) is at a REALM to dispute any power(DARKNESSS very, very possible. Forces that are neither of light nor of darkness not possible and forces of light(very, very impossible) that will want to RISE above the THRONE of GOD(Jehovah). Now talking about speaking in TONGUES, it is called BAPTISM of the HOLY GHOST. Once a man gives his life to Christ, he is expected to continue running the RACE(heavenly) FERVENTLY until such a man receives most of these gift. One of them is the gift of tongues. Now any man that sits down to learn this gift, has already incurred satanic tongues. He(She) should first and foremost stop speaking, and then go for DELIVERANCE , after which such a person may enter into fasting for God to empty him or her of the evil accumulated (satanic tongues) and for the spirit (Holy Ghost) to give him or her his GIFT(tongues). Now a man(Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor) that DOES NOT HAVE THIS GIFT(TONGUES) is the MOST CHEATED MAN on earth. Why? Why? Yes, now if an Apostle(Paul) says that one who speaks, EDIFIES himself. Do you know what it means? Okay, this is what it means, a man that CLAIMS he is a born again and does not yet have the gift of the tongues is LIKE A CAR RUNNING ON A SQUARE TYRES. A CAR running on a square tyres will TRULY GET to its DESTINATION (HEAVEN) but with a lot and alot of STRESS(frustration of continually praying in English, frustration of continually fasting, frustration of ...), now one cannot and will not COMPARE A SQUARE TYRES with a ROUNDED TYRES(gift of the tongues). Yes, once such a man has that gift, he will see himself LIVING A RIGHTEOUS and HOLY LIFE with less STRESS, but this exclude such a one being beyond temptation. Such a person could still be tempted and can still(very, very possible) fall into TEMPTATION and still be speaking in tongues. A man of knowledge (filthy) will be PROVOKED why will God not collect such a gift seeing he or she has BACKSLIDED. Yes, God is not man and can never, never be man. Okay, this is the reason why a man that had the gift(tongues) and backslide, God will not collect such a gift:
1. The person is already a GHOST to the gift(tongues). If any man will be able to explain this, then God will vacate his throne for such a one. Call all Professors of Theology let them try. Now, here is the meaning, if a man(Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor) who has the gift of the tongues BACKSLIDE, he will be a GHOST unto speaking in TONGUES. The person is like a man that MARRIES (has been given the gift tongues), and later he decide to go after other women(harlot). If his wife is very, very faithful to him, then the man(husband) is truly a GHOST(false husband) unto the woman. Now the woman cannot or may not know that the husband in question is a GHSOT(false husband) unto her, but the devil knows that the man(husband) is truly a Ghost(false husband). Why? Why? Yes, any man(Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher, Pastor) that sleeps with a woman that is not his wife, has a CLONE(false replication of the inward being) with the devil in the darkest region of drakness. Now what the devil does with his CLONE(false replication), is to keep MANIPULATING such a man at his own will. If he(devil) wants the man to go to the devil's house(club), he will do that. If he wants the man to keep taking LIQUID of INSANITY (alcohol), he will do that. If he wants the man to SLEEP(false) with his maid, he(devil) do that. If he wants the man to ... Now, any man that writes what is written above without the grace of God, will be CHAINED by the devil. Why? Why? Yes, it is a great mystery that a man would be used at this LAST DAYS to expose MYSTERIES of the THID WORLD , when he is still at the FIRST WORLD (EARTH), seeing it is almost twelve O'clock (raptured -spiritually). Now talking about a man that is a GHOST unto tongues before the devil, he is likened to a man(adulterer) who has a wife (virtuous) and still sleeps( commit adultery) with other women. Now matter how the man is GIFTED, his TONGUES would never, never EDIFY him seeing he has a clone(false replication of his inward being) with the devil. So once the man is speaking in TONGUES, the devil will be MOCKING him waiting for him to finish his TONGUES, and then continue from where he stops( adultery). Okay, this is what happen when the BRETHREN were in one accord, the spirit of the son(HOLY GHOST) had to manifest himself through them confirming the PROMISE of Christ to them that he will send them a COMFORTER. Now, if anybody on earth speaks in tongues and CLAIMS he is speaking other languages on earth, the devil will not just look at the person as a LUNATIC(evil of evil), but even worst than an ATHEIST. Why? Why? Yes, the devil knows then, it was to SHOW(GLORIFY God) the people that came for WORSHIP at Jerusalem that God is truly ALIVE, and he(HOLY GHOST) can only PROVE that through TONGUES of MEN(LANGUAGES) on the disciples, so that people from various nations could HEAR them speak and give glory to GOD. Yet, even at that, many as at then DOUBTED, signifying the LEVEL of CARNALITY of the worshippers then. But today(LAST DAYS), one cannot speak with tongues of men and CLAIM to be speaking in tongues except such a man will LEARN it through men. And when one learns a language through man, it is not speaking in tongues anymore seeing the effect that it was meant to achieve on the people that came to worship those days yielded RESULT. Yes, as result, the SPIRIT of God(Holy Spirit) used Apostle Peter to preach(Death and Resurrection) unto the people, and the Spirit of God(Holy Spirit) convicted them and they gave thier LIVES to God, and afterwards most of them received the gift of the HOLY GHOST(TONGUES) and the gift of the Holy Spirit (gift of healing, gift of deliverance, words of wisdoms, miracles, interpretation of tongues(gift of God) etc. Now talking about interpretation of tongues, it is only a foolish man that would want one that speak in tongues to also interpret it, when the gift(interpretation) has not been given to him. The tongue given to him is for HIS EDIFICATION. Men should also work(divine) hard, so that they also would speak in tongues and edify themselves instead of depending on others for EDIFICATION. It is finished! It is finished!
Scripture and explaining it?
DIVINE KISS
From the book of Song of Solomon 1: 2a, it says: Let him Kiss me with the Kisses of his mouth:
From the scripture, the man said that God should kiss him with the Kisses of his mouth. If GOD wants to kiss a man, HE does not kiss him at just one spot, BUT more than one SPOT. That is why from the scripture above, the kiss of the LORD was in plural, which is KISSES.
When a mother carries her baby and throw it up, she holds that baby and with strong affection, she kiss the baby on the cheek.
When God Almighty kisses a man, the man RECEIVES a complete turn around. The man becomes EMBARRASSED with the GOODNESS of LIFE. The man becomes a NEW PERSON both physically and spiritually because He who controls the UNIVERSE has kissed a mortal man. The man begins to OPERATE in another LEVEL. Men see him and GLORIFY God who is in HEAVEN. Kings bow for the man and princes bring GIFTS to him( Isaiah 49: 23, Isaiah 61: 5-11). Sometimes because of the BLESSINGS of God in that man’s LIFE, some people may tend to nickname him. When God kisses a man, the man’s name ring in the mouths of men. When God kisses a man, even his enemies become at PEACE with him (Proverbs 16:7) . When God kisses a man people’s life around him are touched financially and spiritually. When God kisses a man, ANGELS of the MOST HIGH GOD will be at his SERVICE ( Psalm 91:11). When God kisses a man, he will be a problem solver. Where there is conflict, when he comes in, there will be LOVE, where men are in darkness(SINNERS), when he comes, they shall receive the LIGHT of GOD (SALVATION- Matthew 28: 19-20). The KISS of GOD is the deliverance from the powers of darkness and translation into the kingdom of God. When God kisses a man, he has WISDOM that OLD MEN that are on top of three hundred storey building will not be able to understand. Wisdom is not of aged but by the HOLY GHOST. When God kisses a man, he removes his name from the book of death to the book of life. When God kisses a man, he begins to OPERATE at a LEVEL different from ordinary human. When God kisses a man, satan becomes afraid of that man, he (devil) only uses SINNERS to persecute that man physically. When God kisses a man, his destiny becomes ten times BRIGHTER. When God kisses a man , his enemies will be at his SERVICE( Esther 6: 1-12). When God kisses a man, wherever he goes, men want to associate with him because he is carrying the ANOINTING of GOD. He is a BLESSING to his generation.
1 : 2b, it says : for thy love is better than wine.
From the scripture, the man said that the LOVE of GOD is BETTER than WINE. WINE is a drink gotten from grapes which may be ALCOHOLIC or NON ALCOHOLIC. During the process of its manufacture , yeasts may be added in order to make it alcoholic. Non alcoholic wine is that one gotten and manufactured naturally from the grape fruits.
When God created the world he put man in the Garden of Eden because of his LOVE for man, he made the earth bring forth fruit tree yielding fruits (Grapes) which is used in making the wine. LOVE comes first and then wine. Without LOVE there will be not wine (Grapes), BUT SINNERS have turn it about, WINE then LOVE. They love the wine ( things of the world ) more than the LOVE (GOD). Have you seen a man that is in the church and he receives a call inside the HOUSE of WORSHIP of GOD ALMIGHTY about a business deal and he immediately leaves the church (LOVE) in order to accomplish the business deal ( wine ). Do you remember Esau who sold his BIRTH RIGHT( THE POWER TO BE THE SON OF GOD-LOVE) against a MESS of PORRIDGE (Wine -sinners still living in sin-Hebrews 12 : 16). Some people because of the FILTHY RICHES of this world ( MONEY! MONEY! MONEY!-WINE) they sold their LIVES( LOVE) to the devil by joining one thing or the other and as such they cannot sleep as normal human at night. Some people LOVE the wine more than the LOVE OF GOD and as such they donate some parts of their BODIES( LOVE of GOD) to the devil in order to get the FILTHY MONEY of this world. They later develop an incurable illness that would not be EASILY cured, they move from one hospital to the other knowing fully well they have sold their LIVES to the devil( Matthew 16: 26). For those ones, the devil has PROPERLY cheated them because the scripture in Matthew 16: 26b says or what shall a man give in exchange of his soul? The highest those ones that were cheated by the devil gets is at least one- millionth of the earth , that is to say if you divide the earth into one million you only get one part if it were to be possible BUT JESUS is telling YOU that even if they were to give you the WHOLE earth it is not to be COMPARED to your SOUL that shall NEVER, NEVER die.
I was saved I was healed I was delivered from demonic oppression for a born again child of god can’t be possessed but oppressed... if the gifts were ceased an not supposed to work today why has people prophecy over my life people I don’t even know , why has god lead me this way my whole life , why has he shown me the miracles giftings an wonders ! I grew up Baptist but I seen that they were all missing something in the church for yes the word is perfect an sufficient BUT it can not rebuke an cast out unclean spirits/demons with only preaching !! You need to bind an expel it in JESUS name lord yeshua, I grew up Baptist an seen people playing religion an not being able to bare fruit because the strongholds bondages , word curses , generational curses undealt with , ignored an why is deliverance been taken out of the church !!
For why do we have authority over every unclean spirit an demons in Jesus name , has Jesus changed ?! Hebrews 13:8 has our fight changed ?? Ephesians 6:12 !! Not against flesh an blood but against principalities rulers of darkness spiritual wickedness in high places .
The living word is beautiful an perfect but there is a job for us to do !! We have these ability’s an gifts , now for a Baptist to say we are all possessed our listening to a false gossiple an to deny every testimony of people get saved healed delivered,
See they teach out of lack , or they teach from what they are , we are all different parts but one body for some ministries will require higher faith !! For god to do it all , but there are a lot of fake deliverance ministry that give us a bad name ! I understand but there are those Pentecostals that are not ceremonial , charismatics that are beautiful and you feel the outpouring of God spirits so heavy !
I grew up Baptist an I love them but I had never had felt god so strongly like in charismatic and Penecostal churches... I feel away from The Baptist Church and many others like me had it’s because there was something greater that they had lacked , but truly truly I walk in the gifts that the Lord has for me and I believe in the things that he is doing for one can argue but at the end of the day we are one body of Christ and we should not tear down one another but build each other up in Jesus name
for peace blessings and love on each and everyone of you God bless
Miraculous gifts belonged to the apostles
1. Luke's intention - Apostles were given power to do sign and wonders, (Acts 2:5, ..15:12)
2. 2 Cor. 12:12- proving apostleship - signs of an apostles were shown to you
3. The apostles when bringing the gospel had God himself vindicating their words with signs (Heb.2)
4. Jesus' ministry isn't repeatable and so are his commands to his disciples which are specific to them
5. An argument from church history- nobody continued Jesus and apostles' ministries. No duplications of those miracles anyone did
Signs and wonders should be soughts in faith and can be experienced
1. Jesus intended similar kinds of ministries in the future (Luke 10:9, Matt 24:14) preach the gospel, and heal the people: not the apostles only but who believes in him (John 14:12)
2. Acts has deacons doing miracles (Acts 6, 8:6) . Apostles came down and blessed it after checking it
3. God is supplying the spirit to do miracles to them (Gal. 3:5)
4. 1Cor. 12 has healing and miracles differentiated from the gift or the office of the apostles (vs.28)
This is Lord's commandment and not a suggestion. We must heed his word and be a doer.
It's the End Time ministry!
Mark 16:15-18
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 AND THESE SIGNS WILL ACCOMPANY TO THOSE WHO BELIEV.
THEY WILL DRIVE OUT DEMONS; THEY WILL SPEAK IN NEW TONGUS. 18 THEY WILL PICK UP SNAKES WITH THEIR HAND; AND WHEN THEY DRINK DEADLY POISON IT WILL NOT HURT THEM AT ALL; THEY WILL PLACE THEIR HANDS ON SICK PEOPLE, THEY WILL GET WELL."
You are only uncertain because you haven’t been in those waters !!!