Audiences Hate Political Activism, Not Political Art
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
- Do politics belong in art? Well... it depends. Whether its identity politics or hot-button social issues, Hollywood loves to preach, but audiences don't want to listen. What they want are good stories. Those stories can absolutely be political, but the politics of the narrative need to be neatly woven into the story. If they are ham-fistedly shoved into the script, most of the audience will reject the activism on screen and find something else to watch.
Writers, directors, studios, etc... need to do a better job actually establishing their own personal philosophies and working forward from there, seamlessly integrating their worldview into the themes of the stories which they create, designing the narrative around their ideas, not just dropping in random, obnoxious lines or story beats or randomly and pointlessly race or gender swapping characters.
"All art _can be interpreted through_ politics" ✅
"All art _must be about_ politics" ❌
Underrated Comment!
they can't differ the art of subtleties with blatant prpgnda 🙄
I won't say all art is political, but the mere act of making art itself is political. Being allowed to make whatever you want is an exercise in freedom of expression, taking away that freedom often makes many people rebellious even in the face of prosecution.
This is roughly the same way I feel when I say that modern video games have been injected with modern politics and that sucks. “Oh but video games have always been political” no they weren’t fuck off!! People can tell when it’s modern activist messaging shoddily shoehorned and hamfisted in their escapism.
@@HaydenStephens515 *appropriately rated
Political stories can be complex and intriguing, but political messaging feels wrong because they’re not our own opinions. Opinions are personal property, owning is better than renting
Exactly. Good stories present readers/viewers/players with scenarios and then allow them to think about what they might do in that position. Political messaging tells them what they should do/think. I, for one, don't like being told that I'm a bad person simply for having a different point of view.
Especially when modern politics is just depressing no matter what angle you look from.
@@jono3952if I'd were to describe politics with one sentence, that would be it
Political messaging feels wrong when it doesn’t reinforce our existing opinions.
How many people watched “Birth of a Nation” back in the day and felt that it was just a fun story with no political baggage?
@@Justanotherconsumer probably very few! At least some contemporary people understood it as heavy-handed propaganda, the way people discuss movies today. Just that fewer people watched movies then, since streaming didn't exist and you couldn't look at cinema any time you'd like, on a screen that lived in your pocket.
I think this can be summed up as "The politics need to serve the story, the story should not serve the politics". Most of the greatest movies/books/games etc. have political messages within them but even if you don't pick up on those messages or care about them they're still great stories; they add to the story but they are not the story.
Pretty much 👍
That is really the core difference between art and propaganda.
Good stories encourage you to think. Bad stories tell you what to think.
Samwise, can we pin this comment? I think this sums it up pretty well.
Stories that successfully reproduce displace stories that fail to do so. The stories need not be true or be apolitical.
Honestly. As a guy who's trying to write a novel, specifically one inspired by Arcane and Andor, this sentence sums up the essence of those two series' so blasted well! They have a concept the narrative is shaped around (The cycle of violence and the nature of tyranny) and explore it though the characters. Exploration that provokes thought, with viewers coming out of it with different, yet entirely valid ideas about the subject matter and moral culpability of the characters. I hope that when I eventually finish, my art can do likewise with an exploration of leadership.
Or, as The Closer Look puts it, “art gets the audience to think. Propaganda does the thinking for them”
Telling an idiot to think accomplishes nothing. Religious nuts, for example, are completely devoid of thought. They shouldn't even be told what to think. They should just be given a really great plot of land somewhere that they'll be fine on their own, but can't bother anyone else.
I’ll never forget when George Lucas said that the culture war is never good in entertainment. He was and is still right
This coming from the guy who named his villains after Republican congressmen. Although, that movie did suck... so... point George.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoatwhich republican congressmen? I never knew he was being political.
@@feartheghus Nute Gunray’s name was based on Newt Gingrich and Ronald Reagan apparently. Not sure myself but that's what pops up when I search for it.
@@feartheghus The Neimoidians are named after Republicans. "Newt Gunray" is named after Newt Gingrich and "Lott Dod" is named after Trent Lott.
And yet he sold Star Wars to disney……
People don’t hate politics, they miss escapism. People are very, very desperate to escape from the hyper-politicized climate we’re in right now and hollywoods not giving it to them
as someone who isnt american, being constantly preached to about american politics is very tiring.
I can only imagine lol
@@master_samwiseYou have no idea how exausting it is, to the point of dirving me to dislike and even hate certain political agendas/groups, before being exposed to this i couldnt care less.
As someone who is American, it’s still exhausting being preached at about American politics. It’s just that, if I don’t pay some semblance of attention, it’s going to screw me over. At least I can see it coming.
The core of the politics being pushed is not even remotely an American idea. It's all based on Critical Theory and closely aligns with the goals of Marxism, that being the destruction of existing power structures, so Communists utilize it as a weapon to their own ends. The ideas were developed by the Frankfurt School. You're only seeing the effects of it applied to the American landscape when it's being done everywhere with a slightly different coat of paint each time. Go complain to the Germans instead.
As someone who is American, i fully concur
Yes, i'm well aware our current political climate is a clusterfuck, that's kind of why i want to watch a movie or a TV show, to forget how fucked it is. If i wanted to engage with the clusterfuck i wouldn't be watching something that, for example, claims to be a high fantasy drama....
"I do put myself into the scripts - it's unavoidable - but I am not the product." And this is why your products are worth my time.
"The purpose of a storyteller is not to tell you how to think, but to give you questions to think upon. Too often, we forget that."
- Hoid, The Stormlight Archive, Book One: The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson
Life before death.
Strength before weakness.
@@BelligerentPenguin Journey before destination
The words are accepted
"Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldybrak." - Wit
See, this is why people hate preachy Christian movies too! The overly activist movies are also just giving a sermon about morality, just from a different moral worldview.
There’s a difference between expressing your political beliefs and pedantically teaching them to others.
As a follower of Christ, I agree. Though the brothers have always made movies for the church (so they are more set up as a movie long sermon), there are so many bad movies that always make the believer completely innocent or have an atheist who hates everyone who doesn't agree with them.
@Ironica82 Art Imitates life, as they say. Anytime I tell anyone about anything that has to do with Jesus or the Bible, I'll get the patented and true response of "get that fairy-tale away from me." Not all protocol messaging is bad because, quite frankly, people WILL ignore messages unless you tell them. Most people don't care about things that need to be said until they're right at their doorstep, ready to present themselves through hamfisted and ignorant claims and ideas.
Movies like what?
@@Ironica82 Honestly wish more of them were like you. I've got a Pentecostal preacher for a father-in-law, and anytime he puts anything on the TV, it's always so preachy. I'm atheist myself, but I do love theology, and I wish more media would tackle some of the more interesting problems. The writings of Aquinas are so much more interesting to me than any of those Christian movies. A Christian movie that did a good job of tackling atheists' objections in a well written story would be incredible.
@@Alexander_Grant problem is that a lot of what you want works better in more of a documentary style or a long YT video than a movie with a story. Movies can only go so deep before they really do become preachy.
To paraphrase the great J.R.R. Tolkien "I cordially dislike allegory. I much prefer history, whether real or feigned, with its varied applicability. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author."
Stan Lee always spoke about this that political art was always in his comics but never the theme of the story
While today
“If you don’t like my politics don’t buy my book”
I agree with the Terms of the service
The sort of “If these politics don’t please you, go find another book” literature only serves to limit the ideas’ spread and reinforce differences. Ideas, if they desire to survive beyond a small but devoted base, generally prefer to be expressed among the public to try to convince people in their favor and thus grow.
Conflicting ideas exist. Their adherents interact with one another and sometimes the ideas trade adherents. This is normal and typically benefits society. I don’t have to support a certain political position to recognize ideas of it within a work of media and appreciate that those were included in a way meaningful to the story.
One of my inspirations as a writer is Rod Serling (creator of Twilight Zone and Night Gallery). Now he was a liberal (for his time) writer and he explored themes such as antisemitism, bigotry, racism, fears of the unknown, paranoia, hatred and prejudice. However, he was smart and talented enough to understand that his message would only be as good as the story he was trying to tell.
So he focused on creating stories that spoke dangerous truths but made them interesting and compelling. We could get behind the characters and their plights. And, above all, he knew when to hammer home the message and when to let the audience draw the conclusions he wanted them to make.
It’s uncomfortable but it’s the good kind of uncomfortable. It’s the uncomfortable you get when you grow or are forced to take new paths you haven’t taken before.
And that’s why Twilight Zone has stayed around for as long as it has. The series has been revived no less than three times but it’s always the first one that is still fondly remembered. “The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street” was remade in 2002 and it still holds up amazingly well with commentary on the War on Terror as opposed to communism. It’s still used as a teaching tool in many schools around the world to not only invite debate on the nature of paranoia and fear causing us to turn on each other but on storytelling in general.
I think Serling would honestly be disgusted with the state of storytelling in popular culture today. And he wouldn’t have been shy about saying something about it.
That’s why storytellers like him will be remembered and the others relegated to the dustbin.
I think that most people can't even *define* what fascism is.
Eh. Just for the fun of it, I'm going to try. Just to be clear, this isn't some passive aggressive stuff, just me being bored on a Monday evening.
"A totalitarian form of government typically characterized by hyper-militaristic nationalism, fusing party/government control over certain industries, but otherwise maintaining a domestic free market."
@@captainuseless2120 Sorry I can't help myself I have a masters in politics so I will also add to this because I will one day die from a conniption if people keep using an incorrect definition as a lazy pejorative.
An important part of real fascism is the spiritual component. I chose spiritual deliberately as religion, while prominent in fascistic societies, is not synonymous because any religion can be used within fascism. Fascism seeks a national spirit which allows for an easily perceived in-group/out-group dichotomy. A leader emerges from the people who feel or are a part of this national spirit thus becoming the leader. This is very easily glossed over as just hyper nationalism, but Mussolini is very clear on the distinction here. Another important component is that all things must be subservient to the state or the aforementioned national spirit, as all things should work to advance it. The people are for the state and the state is then supposed to work for the advancement of the adherents to the spirit of the state. This why cults of personality are synonymous with fascism, as it's very easy to reduce the government to it's head ie; the appointed leader.
I could continue if anyone wants me to ramble more. I'm very passionate about this stuff and firmly believe the longer people use words like fascism and communism as words that might as well just reroute to "evil bad guys I don't like" the worse off discourse will be and the longer propagandists will run roughshod over culture.
You can thank the people who misuse the term "Fascist" for that. They haven't a clue what fascism actually looks like or means
@@Arrestedrabbit
Amazing comment.
I completely agree with that statement. These days it is a term usually just thrown around as an insult without any knowledge of the historical movement deeper than "autoritarian, nationalistic, and militaristic government", ignoring all its complexities and apparent contraddictions from a 21st century political perspective.
For instance, the big emphasis on state control of the economy, social welfare, and lack of individualism for the benefit of the nations, all pillars of Mussolini's historical fascist regime, would be at odds with the beliefs of many people that today are called "fascists" by their opponents.
There is a difference between shouting your ideas at someone and getting them to engage with your ideas. And the Exec at hollywood have completely forgotten this.
The public hates PROPAGANDA. We may think that only happens in other countries, but that’s what this stuff really is.
The general public wouldn't know most propaganda if it bit them in the arse, as a rule.
What they hate is Preaching. Their tollerance goes up a bit if they agree with the message, but even that has its limits.
Because Preaching gets in the way of what they're actually there for.
To be fair Propaganda happens in movies since forever i mean, you can't say to me that a hollywood movie showing how great the US army is and how evil the *insert current enemy of the US here* soldiers are is not trying to make a point there, just see Rambo for example (great movie, but shameless propaganda at the time)
There is a good quote in a story telling book that I think sums this issue up pretty well.
"When your premise is an idea you feel you must prove to the world, and you design your story as an undeniable certification of that idea, you set yourself on the road to didacticism. In your zeal to persuade, you will stifle the voice of the other side. Misusing and abusing art to preach, your screenplay will become a thesis film, a thinly disguised sermon as you strive in a single stroke to convert the world."
Source please? Not calling you out, I just want to look into it further
@@curtishammer748 Of course. It is Robert Mckee's Story page 121.
The problem isn’t proving a premise, it’s acknowledging that people can have reasons to disagree.
In order to argue for a point well, you must be able to argue against it.
The “politics” in movies doesn’t argue or explore political ideas, they just state them. It’s like a random stranger approaching you and saying “you need to go to restaurant X” and then they get mad when don’t go there or when you ask follow-up questions like “I’m allergic to Y, is it safe?”.
It can be boiled down to the old saying “show! don’t tell”. So many shows/movies now a days spend more time telling you about people than showing them act.
The MCU suffers a lot from this, like how in Wandavision, Wanda enslaved people, isolated their children, stole a witch’s power and brainwashed her but then a side character calls her good, and we as an audience are supposed to just believe that?
@KHJohan I think it's a bit of both. As people would strive to prove their premise, they would, as you pointed out, just declare their opinion to be fact and leave it at that. They fail to acknowledge the opposing ideas or just create strawman versions of the ideas that they can easily dismiss.
Thank you! The political pushing feels like cringey Christian movies that aren't made well. They are sermons, or political rants, that are acted. (And I'm a Christian.)
Lmao same. Kingdom of Heaven did Christianity more justice than any of those movies.
Indeed, the animated movie Prince of Egypt movie shows that you can make stories about the Bible work and still be entertaining and not preachy, even if it does take some creative liberties.
Transformers One just recently came out and I like how the movie did a good job at using political themes in service of its story, world building and how it affects the characters instead of being solely use to “own the chuds.”
Great movie
Ya I really enjoyed the movie they really did a great job making an entertaining movie while mixing it with the message in a sutle way
1:07 I think you hit the nail on the head. The theme of “Democracies turning into Dictatorships” can boiled down into an even simpler themes he established with the Dark side. Without making this comment paragraphs long, the republic goes through fear, anger, hate, and then suffering by the end of RoTS. I think that’s what makes it work. It’s in line with the rules in universe along with telling a story-not slighting the US during 2001. Thanks for the Goat breakdown as usual!
The problem with people who always say "the personal is political" is that they mostly ignore the fact that compromise is necessary in both personal interactions and politics.
Andor made me stop and actively think about and wrestle with my political opinions. The sequels cut off any discourse that could have happened. That’s the difference that art and passion can have
THANK YOU!! FINALLY SOMEONE EXPLAINS IT! Oml I can't tell you how much relief this brings me.
I accidentally clicked on this video and I didn’t realise it’s the smart guy who made the video “Children deserve good stories too”.
Arcane is everything The Acolyte wishes it was.
Wow. I am impressed.
I’ve enjoyed politics in some media and not in others. I thought about it a bit and just came to the conclusion that I like it “when it’s done well”, but I couldn’t accurately define WHAT makes it done well.
Seeing the title “Activism vs Art” immediately defines it extremely accurately. Suddenly it just “clicked” in my mind.
Thank you so much for producing these videos!
Also, concerning the bit at 4:05 where you say you want your analyses to help the audience understand the art, you DEFINITELY do.
Your videos are well produced, well thought out, and very meaningful. Every new analysis is a gift
THIS. People LOVEE to put the blame on politics and say that the reason people don't like a movie is "bEcAuSe ThErE's A wOmAn", or "pEoPlE hAtE dIvErSiTy!". While that might be the opinion of a few, it is NOT the majority. Like you said, the problem isn't the politics. Stories like the Star Wars OG trilogy and prequels, and The Last Airbender, have plenty of politics in them, but the politics of those stories fit within them and ACTUALLY have a purpose. I don't feel like I'm being preached at, because those stories aren't forcing a specific opinion down my throat. It is still mainly focusing on TELLING A STORY.
I am also of the opinion that the best stories are those that focus on universal truths. Things that anyone could relate to. Stories like Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, whose main theme is learning to appreciate the life you have by focusing on the people around you. By being the best person you can be, because in the end that will matter more than wealth or fame. Kung Fu Panda, where the main theme is learning that you can be capable of great things, even if everyone around you doesn't believe it. How to Train Your Dragon, similar to Kung Fu Panda, but also showing that there are other ways to fight, and just because you're not the same as everyone else, it doesn't mean you can't make a difference. You can choose to do better. These are all examples from animated movies, partially because those are the kinds of movies I watch more, but also because I feel like they're some of the best at storytelling, at least in the past. To me, what matters isn't whether or not the character is diverse, or if they look like me. There are plenty of characters that I like that look nothing like me, but I relate to them because of the experiences they go through. They feel real, not like a character that was written solely for the purpose of pushing an opinion.
I think of _Nabucco,_ an opera taking place in the Jewish exile to Babylon premiering to an audience of Italians, and that audience resonating with the play enough that it became closely associated with the desire for Italian unification. It was first performed in Milan, and I wonder how many local viewers thought of the plight of its characters similarly to Austria’s control of Lombardy and Veneto at the time.
Thank you!
I personally love stories that, when appropriate, feature diversity and lots of women.
One of my favorite TV series is the original "Penny Dreadful", the one with Eva Green; it had a diverse cast, a morally ambiguous female lead, and lots of (frequently gruesome) debauchery.
I just don't like the way practically any stories, in general, are written today.
As much as I love "Penny Dreadful", I dislike "Agatha All Along," which has similar superficial elements -- and Patti LuPone is actually in both series as a witch.
You are so right, but I feel like your points are become more lost as the days go bye. More people really do seem to just hate diversity and women now, their minority is growing, and it’s making the majority of people who want good stories seem in league with them and look bad.
The people saying that people hate a movie because of "Women or diversity" are the people actually making the films and they are gaslighting to deny that their film bombed because it sucked. everyone knows that "Nerds" have always liked badass Lady heroes, people did not love Leia and Ripley and Sarah Connor for decades and then just suddenly decide badass Ladies suck. people hate Mary Sues and girlbosses because they are obnoxious and unlikable from awful writers.
and people may be triggered now as soon as they hear a film is diverse or stars badass women, because for the last several years the first thing you hear about any project is the studio or people involved gloating and bragging and shoving it in your faces that it is diverse. and you are like "uh ok but what is it about?" their reply "it is diverse, GIRL POWER!!! down with the patriarchy". then you see the film and time after time after time after time after time after time after time it is awful, in EVERY respect. so yeah NOW as soon as you hear them promoting its diversity itis instant loss of interest. some people would argue that what they are doing is the opposite of helping their cause.
Star Wars and The Last Airbender were in an unstable equilibrium, specifically girl power. If it is a good thing add more- and their sequels ratcheted up the girl power and were garbage. You can have women with power (Star Trek Voyager wasn't hurt by Janeway), but genderflipping the Batman or James Bond type character doesn't seem to work.
A lot of the pieces that we see labeled as political just seem to come across as overly preachy about the creators political ideas them pushing. At best they are preaching to the choir at worst their preaching to non-believers.
Star Trek has gotten itself the label of political and woke applied to both new iterations as well as the old. Hell, my favourite episode of TNG, Measure of a Man, is about civil rights, slavery, and even has the antagonist accept another character's pronouns at the end. At no point did this episode feel like a lecture, it came across as an in universe story that could have real world applicability. It was a good story, good fiction. My personal favourite take away from it is the philosophical approach Picard took instead of an appeal to emotions. "Slavery is bad because it is wrong to do it to a sentiet being".
I think your video on strong women actually sums it up best; Audiences hate bad writing, not political stories.
I think two words are important here: CAN BE. Movies CAN BE political, they have the potential. But that doesn't mean they always should be, or even need to be at all. The people who can't extricate media from politics are ideologically captured droobs.
Nail? Hit. Where? On its head.
My political opinions are often in agreement with much of mainstream cinema’s political leanings, but I often am largely annoyed by HOW they go about it. It’s heavy handed, disjointed, and clearly lacking in the nuanced skill of true artists of the industry.
I really enjoyed the recent Alien movie because it wasn’t a ham-fisted “girls are better” and “corporations are all evil” but rather an artistic way of continuing a franchise trend of gripping horror, bravery in the face of fear, a main female lead in each movie not at the expense of other supporting actors, and a dystopian future of utter greed at the expense of the welfare of your everyday person. But those are the things that are consistent and integral to the universe, not just a messaging checkbox. The key to art over activism is creativity. Without it, we’re just going through formulaic motions. And who wants that, besides the AI bot keeping track of my Amazon habits?
Sincerity is not a conclusion, it is the pursuit, the exploration.
Its why characters in sequels have often grown, but they aren't done growing just because of the previous movie.
I mean that's what acting is. Morgan Freeman, he's not a violent pimp. James Earl Jones was not a genocidal murderer. Mark Hamill is not a psychotic clown or a space wizard.
I dunno, I think Mark Hamill might be a psychotic clown. Just not the kind that terrorizes Gotham
@@VictorLHouette
He’s not a fire king either.
Of course Mark Hamill isn't a psychotic clown or a space wizard, he's a psychotic clown AND a space wizard. Perhaps better known as The Cocknocker.
I’m cool with a serious political message being tied into a story but like you said, it has to be good writing. On top of that, you have to tell the truth and be accurate with your analogy(Don’t be changing history and don’t lie to the audience). That’s why I love the prequels for Star Wars. The political part of the story really adds to the world building. Showing how giving too much power to one man is dangerous and the dangers of being in debt. Oh man, they spent a LOT of credits in the Clone Wars.
King of the Hill vs Mr. Birchum, one is a classic the other is hot garbage both have right leaning protagonists.
OK KO, The Owl House, Duck Tales (2017), and Inside Job are entertaining and very Liberal.
As a fellow Star Wars fan I did not enjoy TLJ, because the implicit understanding was that the Republic and Jedi did not work because they were too ineffectual. The Galactic Empire failed because they were tight fisted, human supremacists. The dark side was an aberration a failure to heed the will of the Force not an equal opposite to the Light. In Sequel trilogy the Republic went back to the status quo that lead up to Palatine's rise by not having a military or cracking down on the crime syndicates. They also misinterpret the point of Luke vs Vader he saw the good man he used to be and refused to snuff him out. He rejected the Jedi and Sith Dogma to do the right thing. So in what world would Luke murder a sleeping child, his own flesh and blood, rather than talk it out?
Its why i love your channel. you talk about political themes without being political. I dont know if youre Trump or Kamala, I dont know how you feel about abortion, or the border, or if pinapple goes on pizza. you keep the themes on point, you keep the information true to the source, and you have a great voice. keep it up broski
Im going to get blasted for heresy, but if you want a video suggestion: The indepth analysis of Titus and his brothers from Space MArine 2.
I’m glad that there are still people who care about quality in art and storytelling more than shoving in personal political views.
Andor is entirely activist.
But it's done well. There's no room for sympathy with the Empire...but the purity of the Rebellion is very thoroughly called into question. But throughout...the fact remains that the Empire are wholly and permanently in the wrong. It's not an opinion, it's objectively, clearly factually and logically true.
9:53 Should've used the Homelander "Im am better" speech in that instance since the writers are as narcissistic as Homlander himself.
I will note that for future use!
Don’t forget about the blatant allusions to the Democrats & Republicans in season 4. They rammed it down the viewers throats that Democrats (aka Starlighters) are good while Republicans (aka Homelanders) are evil.
@@dogloversrule8476 Not Republicans. Just MAGAts. All of whom are, in fact, scum.
@@master_samwise Not true. What is Star Wars? Listen to George Lucas again and he made his movies super political from the start. Nerds just hate it when the message is directly condemning them like Joker 2
AGREED!!!
You can make a political story without it being preachy or about personal beliefs, you can make a political story simply because its engaging
Another thing about political stuff in media is that it has to be NUANCED or INTERESTING, SCARY even. Problem is it almost never is that, especially after Trump took office.
Then "those people" will say "politics aren't ruining media" and point at things like Bioshock, Deus Ex, or Metal Gear Solid...but fail to see that the politics in those series are the FIRST. LAYER. in the stories they tell and neglect the other, heavier, more substantial topics presented in them.
-Bioshock: The dangers of obsessing over a paradise of individual freedoms. When left completely to our own devices for too long, humanity tends to go down VERY dark paths out of greed and disregard for the rights of others.
-Deus Ex: The purpose of "God" and, without a guiding hand to point us in the right direction, we'll apply the role to authority figures like governments and agencies which can turn out VERY bad b/c they are human and subject to their flaws.
-Metal Gear Solid: The ever-shifting and easily-manipulated nature of "the times", how today's good can become tomorrow's evil and vice-versa. Also, hidden organizations subtly shifting the culture to normalize genuinely messed-up stuff to the public.
Stuff like this is WAY more complicated and WAY more interesting than an X-Men member killing innocent people b/c a turtle choked on a plastic bag.
Hopefully, the fact that believing in God is de facto putting your faith in humans to tell you what the right direction is... isn't lost on you. I really hope it's not lost on you.
Literally all of that is political lol
I mean...you can exaggerate that and make is sound good for all political beliefs.
Also the "God as authority" argument is still flawed because human perspectives need to first understand who God is and how we determine morality from such a being. Who's to say my interpretation of God is morally better than yours?
@@innitbruv-lascocomics9910the "god is tyrant" argument comes from God if he knew Lúcifer was going to betray him and let him means he is manipulative and not so God people think
If God did not know Lúcifer betray that's means God is not omnipotent and flawed like a human.
I'm a staunch conservative and my scripts are virtually apolitical, politics aren't my concern, telling good stories is, crafting visions of my heart and soul is.
4:45 I would say both. Because my stories are inspired by the works of Tolkien, Lucas, and the Bible. I tell stories that I want to hear, because I know that they are inspired by greater men than myself. And as I’ve grown up, I’ve found it increasingly difficult to remove art from artist, because modern works are solely based on self. They’re soley told because the author’s want to hear them, rather than have their stories be ones people want to hear.
I’d love to read your stories! Where can I read them?
@@HaydenStephens515 unfortunately they’re not uploaded anywhere. Mostly just told to friends through D&D sessions, or just talks of world building. I’ve been thinking about writing them out, but life’s been far too busy for me to do so right now
There is the contrary to that: Why should you debase your stories to fit the masses? Is money and fame greater than the story that needs telling?
You yourself stated the Bible is a reference, the prophets and apostles all died aside from a few to tell a truth others would not understand or reject with hostility. I myself find the world full of itching ears.
Andor is a masterpiece ❤
100%. That show and arcane have unironically inspired me to write a my own story that takes a similar approach.
Wow. Never thought I'd see someone use a hunt down the freeman clip and not be making fun of it.
Double points for it not being President Keemstar
"my panda, my choice mom!" I just got heart burn from the amount of visceral rage that clip summoned...
thank god i didnt watch that movie lol.
@@tyrantangel same here.
I think audiences hate overt political activism. If it's sufficiently subtle, or fits in with how events would unfold anyway, they aren't phased so much.
There are many stories that have political inspiration. What determines success is how you choose to deliver those ideas and themes. Most modern movies etc choose to brow beat a particular message into the viewer. Meanwhile a well written story invokes those political ideas etc and gets the viewer to contemplate those ideas within the context of the story.
The difference comes down to telling the audience what to think and giving the audience a reason to think.
We want a reason to think and engage with. Modern film and television feels like we're all evil beyond belief and need to be trained to think correctly.
Couldn't agree more. As much as I enjoy and often wholeheartedly agree with channels like Drinker and Nerdrotic, it always annoys me when they say that art should never so much as make any allusions to political issues, though I'm sure they don't mind when the art takes a stance they agree with. I think the most impactful and timeless art is very political, but as you argued, it should be thought provoking and handle nuanced issues with intelligence rather than ham-fistedly shoving an agenda down your throat and attcking you for disagreeing with it.
I fall in the camp that all art is political. What I generally see in the arguments from people on Twitter, UA-cam, etc is that people call things “political” when it’s politics they disagree with. Politics they agree with is invisible to them because their opinion, their beliefs are not political. Once it is something they disagree with it becomes extremely invisible and will thus argue that the media *has become* political.
Politics are not boring in shows, the thin is that it can only be as good as the writers can make it be, just like any other subject if the writers fail at it it's gonna be bad, if they don't it isn't, twitter mentality also doesn't help their case tho... 🎉
Messaging primacy vs narrative primacy. One makes people hate, the creates love.
This Video needs more views. Finally a voice that's explains the issue.
It's like the "no politics in my xyz" and "everything is political" crowd talk past each other and worst of all don't really WANT to understand each other
By that definition, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is political activism, and YET ! It's one of the most beloved shows of all time.
I think you need to review that video... I don't think it's a well thought out separation to make.
It all just looks like you thought about it backwards: you started with the things people feel are "good", those people feel are "bad", and then you assumed the way they show politics was fundamentally different thus why one fails when the other doesn't, when there are plenty of stories with obvious political activism in them (be it by a character's perspective, or the author's) that are still part of the bedrock of modern entertainment.
Here it just feels like "Stuff I like is art, stuff I dislike is activism"
The difference is mainly if there's a discussion about the topic. Political messaging is only there to shove one's political view to the audience. It doesn't allow any questioning, any debate nor discussion.
This.
Great exampel is the new proud Family on disney+ i had the disspleasure of seeing last year. They bring up some interesting topics but the conclusions are all allready set in stone. You are only allowed to agree nothing else
Great video, I'm subscribing. My favorite point was that doing the exact same thing on the right is just making the problem not worse, not a solution.
Nobody wants to see "Lady Ballers" (2023), they want to see "Dodgeball" (2004).
FreedomToons came out with the best "anti-woke" cartoon. Don't believe me, look up "Anti-Woke Dog".
I completely agree with why the Daily Wire's attempt failed completely. Instead of starting with a story and inserting some politics, they (like so many in Holleywood now) started with the politics and created a story around it.
Ahh, a True Man of Culture! 😎🫡
If you’re eager for more “anti-woke” content of that sort, you might enjoy something I’ve been working on! I have been writing a fan-series that crosses over my 2 favorite anime, those being OnePunchMan and MyHeroAcademia. It’s called MyHeroAssociation! Look it up if you’re interested! I’ve been putting A LOT of work into this series, and have already published the First 8-Chapters and yet I’ve still only just begun! No political propaganda, just focusing on the themes and character-arcs that already exist in both shows.
If you like OPM and/or MHA, then I think you’ll probably really enjoy this series I’m writing. I’ve been getting positive reviews so far, so I’m pretty sure I’m doing something right at least.
Eh, I think a show that deliberately tries to be Anti-Woke immediately loses the point, I’ve watched the video and it was funny, but it felt it’s objective was a little pretentious reading the comments. Like, it’s a good joke, and I love making fun of the left and how pretentious they can be, but trying to combat pretentiousness with pretentiousness, combating woke shows with anti-woke shows just serves to make you look like hypocrites fueling the problem even more. Just make good shows, movies, games, etc. Stop trying to be woke or anti-woke, I don’t give a flying fuck honestly about all that petty squabbling, so don’t put it in my media. Don’t force shit, you’ll only be compelling when you actually focus on the “story” and not on some message. Anti-Woke Dog doesn’t have a story, it’s a joke skit that focuses on a message, while great for a good joke, it isn’t able ground for a good show.
@@baron6588 Funny thing is, that's what they did. Instead of going into the amti-woke beliefs, they just had fun with the dog. They brought in the woke side but then showed the dog ignoring the debate and just having fun. He showed how the woke side tries to shove their politics into the show while also showing the best way to combat it by ignoring it and making a fun cartoon. The moral of the whole show is to stop obsessing over it and just enjoy your life.
@@Ironica82
Oh yeah, that’s a great moral to think about, makes for a great cartoon short in all honesty. Though, I don’t really vibe with the intention it was made for. It is called Anti-Woke Dog, why can’t it’s just be, well, just a dog? Why do we have to put Anti-Woke there? It’s just a good ol dog having fun. Nothing that woke or anti-woke about it. That’s the kind of thing I don’t like, what the creator’s intent was making it political by making it an anti-woke dog. It teaches to not care about the culture war yet still includes itself in it? A show with kind of premise would still be obviously pandered to the anti-woke crowd if it wasn’t satire, which goes back to my point about the hypocrisy of anti-woke shows. Making it political also makes any incoming viewer that isn’t of that same crowd dismiss the video thinking it will be about a preachy dog, when the video actually offers a very worthwhile moral. So what I am trying to say is, you need leave out your personal beliefs when you want to make something that properly expresses your personal beliefs, does that make sense? Probably not but eh, I should take the dog’s advice and not obsess over this like an idiot lol.
@@baron6588 He explains why he called it Anti-Woke in the first couple of seconds. When an "anti-woke" cartoon comes out and sucks, people keep asking him to make one since his cartoons are very well done. So, to fulfill their request so they would stop asking him, he called it "anti-woke". You can also go deeper in that the human represents the typical woke shows while the dog represents how the other side should make their shows instead of the crap that keeps coming out. All the other stuff you were saying about it was not in the creator's mind.
As for leaving politics out, I like to say that politics in shows are okay but activism is what ruins it. Fresh Prince Of Bel Air is a great example of how to show real life issue without them becoming the main point of the show. They had a range of issues from racist cops (one of Uncle Phil's best scenes), to racist blacks (one of Carlton's best scenes), to the impact of losing your innocence after seeing your cousin get shot (the hospital scene is very intense), to even absent fathers and those who take that role in your life (one of Will's best scenes).. However, those themes were sprinkled around a show that main focus was on the comedic antics of a brother from the hood moving into his rich uncles' house and the culture differences between them.
It is okay to put yourself into a show. However, make sure you actually put yourself and not some perfect ideological self. For example, if I put myself in a show as a follow of Christ who was raised in the church, I would not only show the hardships I have been through and show the grace of God, but I would also show the times where I was basically a Pharisee jerk to others and how God majorly humble me and shows me how much of a jerk I was. So, write yourself into shows, just make sure the character is actually you and not some fake ideological version of you.
I feel like this is someting Angel Studios does really well. Tuttle Twins and the Wingfeather Saga are great (though I absolutely like the former more than the latter) - one is educational, with fun storylines each episode, and amusing characters, while the other tells a much more complicated story with an interesting animation style and great characters to watch. Seriously, they're an awesome studio and I can't wait to see what else they put out into the world (fingers crossed for a Green Ember animated series!) over the next few years.
To me, "Show, don't tell" applies to any political themes/topics a writer wants to explore, too. Yes, a writer is in full control of the story and can make any character be "right" or "wrong", based on what they want to happen. But if it comes in the form of a character getting on a soapbox, or twisting your plot in order to make your ideology right, then it's just as lazy as a dull exposition dump, or a Deus ex Machina.
And frankly, if you can't explore a real world topic in storytelling in good faith, it's not just dishonest, it makes your position feel weaker. If you clearly have to set up fictional strawmen who will follow a strict script in order to make it work, then you don't seem to trust your ideas to stand up on their own. (Or you don't expect your audience to be smart enough to figure it out.)
If you don't trust your own beliefs to survive any real challenges, or to speak for themselves, then why should your audience?
Sometimes it seems that the most expressly ardent supporters of any political ideology or religion end up being the most defensive and weakest supporters, and you seem to recognize that well.
Okay retard.
5:36 that’s a funny quote considering off the top of my head, oil and drugs make waaaaaaay more money in our world than war…..
I watched the CW version of Nancy Drew because I love all things ND, and it wasn't a masterpiece, but it was fine for entertainment.
But there was this one episode that could have been good, but I hated. The whole episode was about how this one woman was abused and mistreated by the police because she was black, but their fundamental mistake (to me) was to make it over an existing storyline. They ignored this black woman going missing because there was a white woman missing. WHO WAS 11 YEARS OLD.
I don't care who you are, I am always going to prioritize helping a missing child over a grown adult. Nothing else matters. The age of the person is important, not the gender, race, or social position. That was my biggest frustration with the episode. I'm automatically dismissing your argument of people of color being mistreated by the authorities (a position that I agree with, by the way) because you're telling me that a grown woman is just as important to find as a child who can't take care of themselves as well. Yes, both are important, but theoretically, the woman can take care of herself better than a child. Any child. Find the girl, then worry about the woman. Don't ignore the woman, obviously, but to me, a child is more important to help than an adult. Always.
Honestly, the police could work on both
But I totally agree with you. Anyone would want to save a child first. Big mistake by the writers
-Now children, what is the moral of this story?
-VOTE DEMOCRAT!
-Very good. Class dismissed.
Just finished watching your GoW video back-to-back and was just wondering what to watch next. This solves my issue. Keep up the good work sir
I think a useful video to round out this one is "Examining the Phrase "Everything is Political"" by ShortFatOtaku.
Short version: Everything is political (if you yourself are an activist) therefore everything MUST be viewed in a political lens, there is no middle-ground where stories can just be stories (or books, or video games, or movies etc)
Exactly
You CAN see everything as political just the same way you can see the math or physics in everything but the point Is you Choose to do so
This is the most concise explanation of the issue I've seen.
It is not my job as a storyteller to tell you what to think, but rather to give you things to think upon.
-Wit, Way of Kings (I hope I got the wording correct)
If not, Wit will definitely make fun of you in some brutal & clever way
This is the exact point I've been trying to make about putting messaging in entertainment.
6:32 weird how they change the fall of numenor to “numenorians were being mean and racist” instead of “numenorians were being prideful and envious” for they desired what the elves had, they wanted a sort of dare I say, equality? Why would the writers want to discard a cautionary and timeless tale about the dangers of envy, and coveting that which belongs to others?
You are slowly and surely becoming the most wise channel on UA-cam. Your insight is always thought provoking, and your high quality videos never cease to entertain. Please, keep up the phenomenal work Master Samwise!!!
The title alone had me shouting, YES, YES exactly this! YES!, enthusiastically.
Such a well made video. This is one of the best UA-cam channels I found.
I had never heard the term “Mary Sue” before the Star Wars sequels came out. My UA-cam feed became way more conservative after RoP came out. Whatever social progress these franchises think they’re making, the opposite is true. They’re making good ideas like diversity and female characters in media look like mistakes and giving fodder to the anti-woke movement. It is very unfortunate.
I think the thing that I hate most about the big Hollywood push to be politically conscious is that they are somewhat directly responsible for pushing people who otherwise wouldn't have much of an opinion on something, into the camp of being absolutely against that something with all the disingenuous, pretentious, and most importantly condescending messaging they try to force on people.
I know people who have had most of their exposure to these topics come from these movies, and have developed a dislike of the subject of the topic.
I don't expect it to go away until DEI is rooted out, which could be never, the counter-counter ism culture that has been established feels impossible to fight but it is being fought at great cost to art, with many great franchises failing and studios being closed because people don't want what they're peddling.
It's going to be a long and pathetic struggle and by the end we'll still just be rewatching movies and replaying games from decades ago, when things were simpler.
I think another part of the issue isn't even so much people disgracefully jamming their political beliefs into whatever they create as it often is a half-hearted attempt at what sounds politically deep but not offering any opinion on it at all. The war proffiteering example from Last Jedi feels like a 'brownie points' moment rather than any attempt to say or even understand anything.
Great video and i agree the only way to combat agenda driven entertainment is with better entertainment, not cringey anti woke humor.
Yes finally! Bad story tellers will think “oh yes I have a powerful message so everyone will like it no matter what”. No you need to make the story intriguing to the viewer so they will care about any message you try to send.
In a world where Arcane and House of the Dragon exist, there's no excuse for failure anymore.
The one problem with this video is that he has not mentioned how the Hollywood system now is run on political activism just look at the Oscar requirements or writing room’s requirements to name a few. And that has bled into story’s and more importantly what story’s get made. Art is not inherently political any one who says that is spending what to much time reading political science text books , how ever art can be political when done right think 1984 or William Shakespeares Othello that was for the time extremely political due to it having a black lead and not just a “noble savage “ lead but one who was respected of good standing and married to a women of the upper class. But do you think of his race in the play no you think of the tragedy of the play. What we get now is activists hiding in art forcing ideology instead of nuance and that is why people are getting fed up with media today
Yesssss this, please don’t shove the politics down our throat if it there but done quietly it’s great 👍
It's true that good writing can mask the feeling of being preached to. I just feel like it's worth mentioning one thing: it's generally easier for conservative messages to be masked than progressive messages, since conservative messages deal in the status quo and therefore FEEL normal by default.
SPOILERS for Dune and Turning Red
I would argue that Dune is a more overtly political movie than Turning Red, but Dune doesn't feel preachy because it depicts an alien world with these ideas already set in stone (same with Andor and the Star Wars prequels, in fact), where Turning Red is aimed at children and takes place in Toronto, and focuses on offsetting a tradition. Outside of a few cringey lines, the movie is mostly a metaphor for puberty and has a message about the importance of fighting for the right to be yourself, both of which are extremely common tropes found in innocuous movies like Frozen and Footloose. It mostly made headlines because it mentioned menstruation products a couple of times.
Dune, on the other hand, is a little harder to pinpoint, since it seems to simultaneously depict religion as a tool used to control the masses while also giving credence to the validity of faith itself, depicting the main character as legitimate messiah of another culture. Having seen both movies, it's not really clear whether it's glorifying the messiah or not, but whichever way you slice it, the fact that it's opening up these questions at all makes it way more political than when Turning Red said "pads!" It just doesn't feel like it, because Dune has the luxery of depicting a religious underclass uprising, and it feels normal to us because it's just like the story of Moses, and it also benefits from being based on a book that's 60 years old and therefore less topical/relatable to modern politics, while Turning Red is a Disney/Pixar movie during a time where Disney is on a decade-long hotstreak of producing heavily criticized corporate-driven stories with hamfisted feminist undertones, and is aimed at children, and tries to be a more personal story that hasn't been told before. There's nothing wrong with the writing (mostly), it's just way more under the microscope than any of these other movies.
Anyway, I kinda wish you talked about Dune and Turning Red, but I'm not in charge of the channel I guess. Good video overall. Gave me a lot to think about, clearly.
Yeah, that feels like an angle that's often left out of the conversation. There's a bit of a double standard when it comes to stories that deal in more conservative vs progressive/liberal topics. I think Turning Red was a pretty good movie overall, but many people wrote it off just because it has a few cringy, hamfisted feminist lines in it. Meanwhile, Dune is given a lot more grace. Even though it can be easily read as a scathing criticism of organized religion, magical thinking, and propping people up as messiah figures, it's given a pass because it doesn't call out real-world people or organizations, and therefore the audience can pretend that it isn't calling their beliefs out directly. It's preachy as hell, maybe even more than Turning Red, but people don't notice because the main character's journey is engaging and sympathetic to a very broad audience. Unlike a movie with feminist messaging that's mainly targeted towards tween girls.
The main problem that I see with the "Art vs Activism" arguement is that, at the end of the day, the line between those two things will always be subjective. Someone may see Dune as activism, and someone else might see Turning Red as art.
No way ya’ll are already commenting before watching the video.
They're bots. The bots are getting smarter.
As Little Platoon put it about Star Trek, [Star Trek] was always political, but it wasn't party political
I'm glad to see Delta-38 and -07 in the background. Republic Commando is one of my favorites.
I feel like the Boys fell into the trap of being too political with season 4. I’m kind of surprised you didn’t mention it in the video
Andor was fantastic and also persuaded me to leave my long time/secure job because I felt like I worked there.
What's your political channel?
This is exactly what i wanted to say for a long time but didn't had the words to express it, thank you it is exactly what i was thinking
The last of us show does a good job telling a good story while having moments of being woke
I've seen The New Norm. Those who have not should be grateful. Fortune smiles upon you.
The issue is that evil isn't specific to a particular "side" or movement because it can infiltrate any of those things, so it's more important to impart principles that expose what that looks like through art instead of pointing to something too specific
A good example from the "right" would also be all the evangelical Christian movies that tend to be bland, cliche, and very preachy. I do think that the same problems with those movies (which non-Christians are quick to point out) are the same problems with the left-leaning movies we're getting now.
Perhaps any kind of sheltered individual simply wouldn't know any better.
The more entertainment you get to experience, the higher your standards.
He did briefly mention that in the timestamp 14:56. Full context is from timestamp 14:09
Funny enough there is a german movie called Jesus loves me (did a Review of that) that i would consider a Christian Story done right
It gets all the messages across pureflix wished it could
Sam, I have watched that video about writing and female characters (in fact, I think it was the first of your videos I ever watched), but I'm only one person; I can only do so much.
10:50 That's the thing many fail to realize, many of us would dislike a right leaning Christian conservative messaging constantly inserted into everything equally as much, if not more.
It's fine if you want to make your Christian conservative movie, or your super liberal left leaning movie, but don't force it into Lord of the rings or entertainment meant for children.
9:43 - Instructions heard loud and clear. Time to buffer up another Master Samwise vid after this one's done.
Excellent video, I’m happy to see someone tackle this subject in a pragmatic and logical way, and hopefully people will actually see and understand this.
Wow, a UA-cam video in 2024 without an end card? You earn a like just for that!
If writers should, "Prove a point," that point should be, "I can write a good story, too."
Political stories can be great. After all, its probably one of the best things about Prequel era star wars in hindsight. Heck even the OT has some irl political jabs in there that highlight George’s political ideology at the time (Episode 6 and the vietnam war, for example)
But yes, it isn’t nessasarally the politics that are the problem, its the *activism.* the moment the audience feels like they are being preached to is the moment they’re going to reject the story outright. Its alright to pull some real life insparations from politics, but it cant be too on the nose. Expecially in this political climate and how volitile it can be.
But Elves really are taking my trade! Seriously.
If you can't respect your audience, what's the point? It just ends up being a bunch of arrogant creatives wasting opportunities just to antagonize people who are going to return the favor tenfold. Leaving artists, companies, and audiences with wasted years, wasted money, and broken trust that takes time to heal.
I think a lot of the problem is that audiences are generally not great at figuring out exactly what the problem is when they don't like something. I was basically in this boat after watching Rise of Skywalker. I knew I didn't like the movie (and I had been relatively indifferent to all the Disney Star Wars films), *something* had clearly gone wrong with the trilogy overall, but at the time I didn't really think too deeply about the art of filmmaking or storytelling so I couldn't really tell what the problem was or why it had happened. At that point there's two options: you either latch onto the most immediate, surface-level "problem" (aside from this being the obvious origin for the anti-woke crowd, I think this is also where a lot of people who complain about bad adaptations "not sticking to a word-for-word recreation of the book" come from), or you do some research to try to see what people who think about this stuff more are saying. The latter is what I did after RoS, and because UA-cam is so full of the "everything is woke and wokeness ruins everything" crowd even a pretty heavily left-leaning person like myself might end up believing that that's the problem rather than identifying the underlying issue of bad writing (I definitely somewhat bought into that explanation for a while, although it always struck me as being an incomplete answer, partly because it runs so thoroughly against what I believe politically and partly because I couldn't really reconcile how something like old Star Trek wasn't "woke," or was woke but enjoyable despite it; had I been more predisposed to agree with conservative thinking though I may very well have stopped looking for explanations there).
Heck, this same thing is a source of a lot of political problems too; people know there are problems but they're not sure what *exactly* those are or what's causing them, so they can be convinced to blame immigrants or just "the other side" for everything rather than really critically examining our institutions and systems and what is or isn't working and what would be an actually useful solution. But that's a whole other discussion.