Sounds like a faulty blade. I own some Magnacut knives and theres no way in hell it would roll an edge on cardboard. I bet the heat treatment got borked.
That's really interesting. You really got me thinking on this one. I recently got a Tactile Knife Bexar in Magnacut, so decided to put it through an impromptu test. Granted, this is a very thin blade and super slicey, so it's not a great comparison to your knife, but it's the only Magnacut knife I have. First test, the Bexar easily cut through paper, no problem. Next, I broke down the few boxes I had. It was still very sharp after that. Then, I decided to go further and cut those cardboard pieces down into smaller and smaller pieces, until I had a pretty decent pile of wallet sized cardboard. It still cut through the paper without any issue. Unfortunately, that's the only cardboard I currently have in the house, otherwise I would have kept going. I think there has to be something going on with the heat treatment on your knife. I'm no expert, but that's the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me.
I can't begin to understand why thats happening, with any certainty. My GUESS is soft HT at blade apex, since its testing higher at spine. In my logic, again just a guess at best, a rolling edge is sign of soft, a chipping edge would be too hard and fragile. Wonder if John and Larrin could talk more about the symptoms and find an answer.
That COULD be a phenomenon that appears due to the heat treament being "broken" by machine grinding the edge. It can happen that a very good knife has a bad factory edge due to this. But after (hand)sharpening once or twice the "good" steel is revealed and all is good. [EDIT]Just saw the follow up video to this, and it seems this was it. A “burnt” edge most likely from belt grinder at factory.
What in the world are you talking about? who I she supposed to borrow a between $200-$400 knife from? I don't know anyone who would do that even companies because she doesn't have a huge audience
I'm 95% positive this is a heat treat issue. The science behind that stuff is pretty extensive. Another issue could be edge geometry?? For what it's worth that knife looks INCREDIBLE. I almost want to buy one from BGM lol
Ummm, did you watch the video? Why would you want a useless knife if you are right about the geometry? It could be a heat treat issue, but it would seem to be a lack of treatment rather than over staying it’s warm welcome, so to speak. But then again, I’m an idiot so I could totally be wrong
In theory, a toothy edge should saw/slice through material better than push cutting through. In a slicing action, small particles of cut material can fall out of the blade as it leaves the cut material. If the same edge is pushed through the material, it will collect debris as it passes through the material, causing a blockage the fine edge during the push. I notice this the most in cardboard. My smooth edges push through like a champ, but toothy edges stall when push cutting. (Although most of my blades are not as thin as yours, so I don't know if a thinner blade would be affected the same by a toothy edge pushing through cardboard.) Another consideration is the blade manufacturer could have some bad stock. Since this is a new steel, perhaps the steel manufacturer has let some bad stock slip past QC.
Neeves just did a video on magnacut, he blazed through a ton of cardboard and his ran through paper after with no issues. Sounds like maybe the maker of your specific knife doesn’t know how to really work with that steel. If you like the knife and profile, send it bs k and ask that he use different steel on knife.
I have a magnacut fixed from him...he isn't the issue..either this HT went horribly wrong of he got a bad batch of Mag, mine has zero issues...2 months and still doesn't need a sharpening.
Isn’t that the knife made by a 21yo kid? I’m guessing the heat treat or something is off. There’s something wrong with the manufacturing process of that particular knife/knife company. I hope the kid figures it out, as I wish him success.
I wonder if he got a batch of the wrong steel? I would try to find someone with a RF analyzer or whatever it's called to check the chemical makeup of the steel. He knows how to do a decent heat treat. If he's doing a Magnacut heat treat but it's actually Cruwear or 4V the heat treat would probably end up crap.
Great Vid , Just Goes To Show HowAll Anyone’s Knowledge And Consistent Out comings Can Be Stumped By Something Not In There Control !! I Have Great Confidence In ERICA!! Seen A Bunch Of Her Vids And She Comes Through Very Consistently With Honesty And Great Insight For Products And Procedere-- So I’m Thinking Hoping It’s Heat Treat Or Something Not In The Known Realm Of Standard Go To Thoughts Or Remedy’s , We Will Wait And See !! So Rest Easy PHYNE LADY !! Take A Breath !! Mystery Will Get Solved In Do Time !! BIGHUGS!!!!!!!!! Take A Moment , And Again Breath !! Hope U Guys And The Doggies All Well And Good !! 💕❤️U ERICA!! 😉😁😘💯🇺🇸🇵🇱🇺🇦🤘🏻👍🏻🤟🏻👊🏻🫵🏻☘️🔥🍀B!!!
I know little about magnacut, but if it's quenched between plates there is a possibility the spine hardened as there was plenty of contact to draw heat, but the edge didn't cool fast enough, assuming the grinds were done before the blade was hardened.
With you having so much problems with magnacut (please don't take this as me saying anything negative) on multiple knives what I believe is happening is you are leaving a wire edge, thinking you fully deburred but rather leaving a very fine wire that feels sticky sharp and super aggressive/ toothy and as soon as you start cutting anything the wire rolls and bam insta dull. Some steels are extremely prone to this and out of the customer knives I have sharpened along with my own I can say magnacut at 64 and less is extremely prone to it and the softer the more prone it is.. if you get a microscope and check a fresh edge I would be willing to bet without even seeing it that's what's happening. Again please don't take that as me saying anything about your sharpening or knowledge I'm just giving some advice on a possible problem.
Something must be wrong with the ht. I recently picked up a Bradford Guardian 3 in Magnacut and polished the edge to hair whittling. After watching your vid I grabbed my knife and quickly ripped through about 265” of cardboard. Still hair popping sharp. A few swipes on a strop and back to hair whittling. I hope you and John can figure out what’s up with that batch. Cool little BGM blades for sure!
Has to be a faulty heat treat. I got a javelin in magnacut from him last July and I haven’t had to sharpen it yet. It gets used around the camo fire a lot and other daily use and even the factory edge was amazing.
Maybe heat treat, but maybe that particular steel would work better with a thicker bevel grind like a convex edge instead of the full flat grind. I'm not sure about the steel's characteristics that's my thinking.
I was just thinking the exact same thing, I’ve got the Magnacut Deka too and it just shreds cardboard for days and I haven’t even had to strop it yet. After a little over a week and many boxes the edge still is still super sharp. Def very weird
I did put 2 MagnaCut mules in through some hard testing and this steel yielded only good results. Spyderco only got them to 62 or 63 Hrc maximum, but it's already really good at that hardness.
I've been testing a magnacut kermode from tacticaleverydaydad here on the farm and at work I've had really good results im assuming heat treat is the absolute factor with magnacut im looking forward to try some from spyderco they really like to make sure they have got everything right before they release a new steel I'd like to see how it compares to what I have
I have magnacut at 60.5 and at 64rc. I had both my new sub zero magnacut Dekas poked at one is 60.7 and one at 60.3rc and my two Mule teams in it both tested at 64.2 and one at 63.6 I have card board test cut the mule team that's 63.6 and in a 1.5 inch section it cut 520 feet before no longer cleanly slicing printer paper across the grain. The Dekas I haven't cut test yet. On the mule teams I have found it really really likes 20dps edges (apex would fail fairly quickly at 17dps) it also did better when I sharpened on metallic bonded cbn stones rather than my naniwa or venev bonded diamond stones. I assume the carbide structure likes the shallower cutting cbn over the more aggressive cutting diamond it deff holds it's bite/toothyness longer when sharpened on CBN over diamond. I will also test it on shapton glass stones and chosera stones and see how those edges do but right now I can safely say both the mule teams toothyness lasts longer when sharpened on cbn. From my tests it really doesn't like to go lower then a 9 micron edge (F600g) and does best on a 17 micron edge (F400 grit) I have even tested it at F240 and it did well. Right now my ideal magnacut edge is finish on F400 and then strop on 12 micron cbn on soft leather to fully deburr (I have noticed magnacut will hold on to a burr pretty damn hard and it will wire edge on you in a heart beat) with EXTREMELY light passes and only a couple per side then finish on 8 micron cbn on a hard leather.
+1 to it holding on to a burr. Once I fully deburred, I got a great, lasting toothy edge off of DMT coarse and fine stones that showed great edge stability. That burr was stubborn at first, though.
cardboard is maid mainly of trash and abrasive sand particles is part of it. Normally you don't see a big difference, but I had some boxes which made my zdp189 and elmax knives dull and shiny in just 20 cuts. the rope test might help to restore your trust in very good knife, the dirty cardboard will kill even the light saber. Since realizing that I use my beautiful knives for everyday tasks, bushkraft, camping and etc but for cardboard I use exacto knifes period
That's wild. I've used magnacut ever since I got the Spyderco Mule. I get better edge retention than m390 and I have yet to get any kinds of chipping. I have had a few rockwell tested and I've used between 60.9 and 64.7. I much prefer it above 62, but even at 61 it was still fantastic. This definitely looks and sounds like a failed heat treat.
It must be heat treat being too low again… I can’t wait to see what you think of another makers magnacut, sorry you’re not having luck with this one either!!
It's the heat treatment!!! I currently have 7 different magna knives and they all perform spectacular. Do you have issues with other knives or just this one? It's gotta be the heat!
What grit are you sharpening to? The only thing i can think of off the cuff is "teeth" of your toothy edge is folding over your apex and causing the symptoms of what you would get from a burr. I cant image the heat treat was done that poorly, i mean it sharpens and can achieve a fine edge, i juat has trouble reataining it. Even a very soft steel, low rockwell wouldnt dull or "roll" that quickly or easily. I would take it to a kitchen steel to realign the "teeth" then resharpen it starting with the lowest most agressive grit and completely reprofile the edge with that low grit, making sure youve formed a complete burr along the whole edge on BOTH sides and that youve removed the burr before going to a higher grit. What i do is a second pass, just one up and down pass on the side i started on to remove the burr of that grit before moving up in grit. so twice on one side, the second time just a single pass to remove the burr. I hope i explained that well enough. After youve gone through all of your grits i would stropp 10-15 passes each side, at about a 2° increase in agle to what you sharpened at to be sure that there is no burr or wire edge or folded teeth still hanging on. Lastly roll your ege back and forth under bright lighting and look closely for imperfections in the edge, like spots catching light or basically anything that does not look like a perfect apexed edge. I hope this finds you and that it helps. Im sorry youre going through this, it must had made your heart sink realizing something was wrong with your new knife. Ive had those experiences, its a big bummer.
Sorry i forgot to recommed what grit to go up to. Anything over 800 grit i would think would be high enough to not have a tooth edge, maybe go to 1000 just to be safe. I would also suggest going to a slightly steeper angle to remove the variable of rolling from the equation of what coyld ve happening. I dont know what angle youve been sharpening it at but id recomend picking it up to 20°-25° per side. Or if you would prefer to have thinner geometry keep your angle the same but add micro bevel slightly steeper than your secondary (conventional sharpening) bevel. The compound grind/ micro bevel i think would be the smartest way to go about fixing it, its what i would try if i were having this problem.
Even my Tactile Rockwall at 61hrc with factory edge cuts pretty well and strops back like a dream. I know it's soft Magnacut, but it still seems like pretty balanced steel with an emphasis on toughness
I had a K390 knife that did that, the Ladybug. I have 3 other blades in K390 that behave just right, but this Ladybug wouldn't get a damn edge for more than 2 minutes
Definitely a heat treat problem. I've had something similar happen and it was confirmed to be improper heat treat. Hopefully that's the case considering i just ordered a knife with Magnacut (my first one).......
I imagine he tested the heat treat on the spine or tang. If that's the case, I have no idea what could of happened without knowing his process in making the knife. If he did test it, it would need to be a differential heat treat issue, it didn't hold the treatment at the edge as well as it did the spine. Or lost the heat treatment somewhere in the grinding process, if he even does it that way. If he didn't test it, it might not even be magnacut as others have mentioned. Different steels require different treatment. I know you want to keep it but I'd send it back to have it fixed, it's basically a kitchen butter knife steel at this point.
Bummer this knife performs this way i really like the looks of it to and the flat grind, i saw a DBK video on magnacut that gave a very good impression of the edge retention of a magnacut knife , Rock on girl take some rest first 🙂👍
I have a junko in magnacut from him in full flat ground and I reprofiled it because it wasn't even, but I did some testing and mine is holding a edge well I like it a lot. I used metallic cbn to 700js witch is 20-14 microns and finished off with a 4 micron strop its pretty fine edge I would maybe even prefer a more toothy edge but it cuts like a demon and holds its edge
The steel did not reach its own proper heat and tempering treatment , i have a 1/8 inch thick full flat grind in 1095 steel and i can cut through thick cardboard boxes and whittle wood and nor roll nor chip but after many and i mean many uses all i do is strop it with two compounds and razor sharp again but then again the knife was made individually by a custom craftsman and not mass produced
It seems like bad testing on the part of the manufacturer. Why would you build with a new steel and not do at least some testing on it so you don’t trash your reputation with bad product. It’s even more puzzling due to the fact that the first knife was bad as well.
Bummer bummer bummer!! Again? That’s gotta be frustrating for both you and John. I feel for you both, this must be what happens when you’re on the very cutting edge of something new and things suddenly stop moving forward. I’m he’ll get it right with time, and in a little time, you’ll have some Magnacut to test out for the channel. 💪🏻
Not to be truly ugly about it, but I've had gas station knives that held up better than that! I don't know anything about magna cut so I can really can't speak to what might be wrong with it, but I can tell no knife should be acting like that after two cuts three cuts whatever it was!
Either it’s heat treated extremely poorly, or it’s not actually magnacut? Do you know what HRC is, or what it’s supposed to be? My experience with magnacut at 63-64 HRC is completely different, that seems extremely fishy.
I have the same issue. I have tried several different edge angles. It either rolls or chips. Nothing in between. I think it’s all a hype that media has sold people out on. I’ve been using mine on soft Basswood for woodcarving. In sloyd knife form. Every other steel I have out performs it. By a long shot. And I spent three times more than I have on any other sloyd knife to get that steel. Just sad.
Dobrý deň, mám podobnú skúsenosť.. Včera dorazil Reiff F6 a po 1,5min. sekania dreva /2x+ pár hoblín/ a nôž sa vytupil.. prebrúsil som ho a skúsim ho ešte vyskúšať.. Prajem pekný deŇ
maybe try ordering a new hogue deka in magnacut. aren't available yet, but they're right around the corner. spyderco also has some magnacut natives on the way
Go watch knife steel nerds, he is the actual creator of magnacut if I remember correctly. He is a steel genius, ask him in the comments and he can help you.
BGM Should be out of business making such useless garbage Like, don’t you test the product in any way shape or form before you sell? you can buy $40 production knives that can hold an edge for 10 times longer how pathetic smh
I've seen a bark river bush crafter scout in Magna cut snap on another UA-cam channel. But I'm leaning to a heat treat issue. Looks like it was not even heat treated at all. It's seems way too soft.
From which brand is this knife? I have doubts in the quality of magnacut. Survive Knives had some trouble with it. Check it out on their channel. Very interesting.
Magnacut I a difficult steel to heat treat it must be austenitized at very high temps around 1900-200 degrees, needs to be air quenched with plates or interrupted oil, must be tempered twice and can be cryo treated for better results, I recommend buying a blade made from it by a reputable source, no super steel should loose its edge so easily, whoever made that knife didn’t do it right
What if it’s not the heat treat and it’s actually not even Magnacut like they scammed you or something. What brand knife is that? It’s not a clone is it.
I’m at a loss 🤷♂️ It was cutting paper cleanly and after 6 cuts or so of cardboard and it was hanging up on the paper. I could tell you had a nice edge because of how quietly it initially cut through the paper. IDK all I can say is that really sucks. Thanks for sharing your results 👊
Hello, I'm sorry, maybe I just missed it, but did you say mention the brand name of the knife, what you paid for it, the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). The brand name and cost would be useful to people watch or subscribe to your UA-cam channel. I "jumped ahead" to another video (presumably the next) you made entitled "I cracked the code of Magnacut" and I did not hear you mention the brand or cost of the knife.
Overheating while grinding, maybeeee tempering with a super thin edge where the absorbed heat sinks to the thin area. Not sure. Improperly processed, or maybe the chemistry of the steel is hard asf to get right.
All these fancy steels are just marketing to sell more knives for more money , I have no problems with the basic carbon steels 1095 , 01 , A2 , L6 , forged properly they work great and rust does not concern me since I oil the blades and clean them after use.
First off thank you for the video updates. Taking your time to do them is really useful. Second, it sucks this is happening. I love John’s knives, but it seems fairly evident there is an issue. Hopefully he can work it out. To those actually reading these comments, I can attest to his awesome work with other steels. I have a 4” custom in Nitro V and have put it through solid abuse even batoning with it. No problems over the course of maybe 2+ yrs
Love your videos....relatively new subscriber. Best of luck on your new endeavors in Ohio. I already know your gonna kill it. Question.....have u even got a hold of a Bradford knife. I think they are some of the best semi production fixies in the game. I think a Guardian 3 would really fit your hand well and they several blade shapes, scale variations, and upper end steels. I have several Guardian 3s and several Guardian 3.5s. Just actually picked up a 3.5 in Magnacut. Love these blades.... drop me a line and tell me whatca think... HT in Arkansas...
Interesting and honest review. It's been posted for a while now so I hope you found a resolution. I guess if I could go back in time 9 months I would suggest just keep talking to John. I would assume he would make it right for you by replacing it or something. But I hope you found something that works well for you.
I'm betting that companies are in such a rush to get Magnacut knives to market that they're probably skimping on QC and taking production shortcuts, and I bet this particular blade either missed the heat treat somehow or just a very poor heat treat from being in a too-crowded oven.
When you did a zoom up of the edge the primary edge didn’t come up very far at all makes me think it’s like a 30° primary edge you need to hold your angle lower when sharpening I can see the primary edge it’s barely even there. This definitely doesn’t represent magnacut I cut an entire trashcan full of cardboard and it still hair shaving sharp but I heat treated it myself and I know what I’m doing. I’m not knocking John I don’t know if it’s the heat treat I’m gonna go with sharpening angle from this video it’s too thick at the Apex
Sounds like a faulty blade. I own some Magnacut knives and theres no way in hell it would roll an edge on cardboard. I bet the heat treatment got borked.
That's really interesting. You really got me thinking on this one. I recently got a Tactile Knife Bexar in Magnacut, so decided to put it through an impromptu test. Granted, this is a very thin blade and super slicey, so it's not a great comparison to your knife, but it's the only Magnacut knife I have. First test, the Bexar easily cut through paper, no problem. Next, I broke down the few boxes I had. It was still very sharp after that. Then, I decided to go further and cut those cardboard pieces down into smaller and smaller pieces, until I had a pretty decent pile of wallet sized cardboard. It still cut through the paper without any issue. Unfortunately, that's the only cardboard I currently have in the house, otherwise I would have kept going. I think there has to be something going on with the heat treatment on your knife. I'm no expert, but that's the only thing I can think of that makes sense to me.
I recently purchased a Bexar and haven’t any issues, as you said it could be the heat treatment used.
Agreed mine is fine but took a bit too get that first bur broke off during it's first sharpening
Hope John can look into and make whatever changes necessary. He's got a lot of talent and skills and this is a new steel for everyone.
If it is truly Magnacut, there’s something wrong with the heat treat. Maybe his batch of steel was produced wrong, but I think it’s heat treat.
I wonder why.The heat treat has to be off.
Curious to see how the Spyderco Native Salt in magnacut will do for you.
I can't begin to understand why thats happening, with any certainty. My GUESS is soft HT at blade apex, since its testing higher at spine. In my logic, again just a guess at best, a rolling edge is sign of soft, a chipping edge would be too hard and fragile.
Wonder if John and Larrin could talk more about the symptoms and find an answer.
That COULD be a phenomenon that appears due to the heat treament being "broken" by machine grinding the edge. It can happen that a very good knife has a bad factory edge due to this. But after (hand)sharpening once or twice the "good" steel is revealed and all is good.
[EDIT]Just saw the follow up video to this, and it seems this was it. A “burnt” edge most likely from belt grinder at factory.
Great review ! You're not timid to "torch" crummy products , without a hesitation of a doubt !☺
Maybe you should borrow one of the "good" magnacut knives to see if their stuff is different than yours?
What in the world are you talking about? who I she supposed to borrow a between $200-$400 knife from? I don't know anyone who would do that even companies because she doesn't have a huge audience
I'm 95% positive this is a heat treat issue. The science behind that stuff is pretty extensive. Another issue could be edge geometry?? For what it's worth that knife looks INCREDIBLE. I almost want to buy one from BGM lol
Survive
@@WheresWaldo05 NO!
Ummm, did you watch the video? Why would you want a useless knife if you are right about the geometry? It could be a heat treat issue, but it would seem to be a lack of treatment rather than over staying it’s warm welcome, so to speak. But then again, I’m an idiot so I could totally be wrong
In theory, a toothy edge should saw/slice through material better than push cutting through. In a slicing action, small particles of cut material can fall out of the blade as it leaves the cut material. If the same edge is pushed through the material, it will collect debris as it passes through the material, causing a blockage the fine edge during the push.
I notice this the most in cardboard. My smooth edges push through like a champ, but toothy edges stall when push cutting.
(Although most of my blades are not as thin as yours, so I don't know if a thinner blade would be affected the same by a toothy edge pushing through cardboard.)
Another consideration is the blade manufacturer could have some bad stock. Since this is a new steel, perhaps the steel manufacturer has let some bad stock slip past QC.
Ask your knife's vendor about its HRC, if it's below 63, then the knife from Magnacut is a trash
I have 2 custom magnacut blades...they are nothing like this...something is seriously wrong. Contact the maker, he is an awesome guy and can help you.
Like I said in this video- I am in contact with him constantly. 😁
@@ericasedc awesome! Hope you can get it figured out! Thanks for doing the testing and sharing it!
Neeves just did a video on magnacut, he blazed through a ton of cardboard and his ran through paper after with no issues. Sounds like maybe the maker of your specific knife doesn’t know how to really work with that steel. If you like the knife and profile, send it bs k and ask that he use different steel on knife.
I have a magnacut fixed from him...he isn't the issue..either this HT went horribly wrong of he got a bad batch of Mag, mine has zero issues...2 months and still doesn't need a sharpening.
Isn’t that the knife made by a 21yo kid?
I’m guessing the heat treat or something is off. There’s something wrong with the manufacturing process of that particular knife/knife company.
I hope the kid figures it out, as I wish him success.
I wonder if he got a batch of the wrong steel? I would try to find someone with a RF analyzer or whatever it's called to check the chemical makeup of the steel. He knows how to do a decent heat treat. If he's doing a Magnacut heat treat but it's actually Cruwear or 4V the heat treat would probably end up crap.
Seems like the heat treat is whack, that dulls faster then the Zhunter! Real shame too
Great Vid , Just Goes To Show HowAll Anyone’s Knowledge And Consistent Out comings Can Be Stumped By Something Not In There Control !! I Have Great Confidence In ERICA!! Seen A Bunch Of Her Vids And She Comes Through Very Consistently With Honesty And Great Insight For Products And Procedere-- So I’m Thinking Hoping It’s Heat Treat Or Something Not In The Known Realm Of Standard Go To Thoughts Or Remedy’s , We Will Wait And See !! So Rest Easy PHYNE LADY !! Take A Breath !! Mystery Will Get Solved In Do Time !! BIGHUGS!!!!!!!!! Take A Moment , And Again Breath !! Hope U Guys And The Doggies All Well And Good !! 💕❤️U ERICA!! 😉😁😘💯🇺🇸🇵🇱🇺🇦🤘🏻👍🏻🤟🏻👊🏻🫵🏻☘️🔥🍀B!!!
I know little about magnacut, but if it's quenched between plates there is a possibility the spine hardened as there was plenty of contact to draw heat, but the edge didn't cool fast enough, assuming the grinds were done before the blade was hardened.
Can you make a specially milled plate to accept the thin edge and have contact throughout the blade? That might make plate quenching more even.
With you having so much problems with magnacut (please don't take this as me saying anything negative) on multiple knives what I believe is happening is you are leaving a wire edge, thinking you fully deburred but rather leaving a very fine wire that feels sticky sharp and super aggressive/ toothy and as soon as you start cutting anything the wire rolls and bam insta dull. Some steels are extremely prone to this and out of the customer knives I have sharpened along with my own I can say magnacut at 64 and less is extremely prone to it and the softer the more prone it is.. if you get a microscope and check a fresh edge I would be willing to bet without even seeing it that's what's happening. Again please don't take that as me saying anything about your sharpening or knowledge I'm just giving some advice on a possible problem.
That isn’t what’s happening, but thanks for your input. It’s not me- it’s the maker. But I am sure he will continue learning from this.
Something must be wrong with the ht. I recently picked up a Bradford Guardian 3 in Magnacut and polished the edge to hair whittling. After watching your vid I grabbed my knife and quickly ripped through about 265” of cardboard. Still hair popping sharp. A few swipes on a strop and back to hair whittling. I hope you and John can figure out what’s up with that batch. Cool little BGM blades for sure!
Has to be a faulty heat treat. I got a javelin in magnacut from him last July and I haven’t had to sharpen it yet. It gets used around the camo fire a lot and other daily use and even the factory edge was amazing.
Maybe heat treat, but maybe that particular steel would work better with a thicker bevel grind like a convex edge instead of the full flat grind. I'm not sure about the steel's characteristics that's my thinking.
Thats strange I have a hogue deka in magnacut and its great super slicy holds edge and is easy to sharpen. Wonder why the variation ?
I was just thinking the exact same thing, I’ve got the Magnacut Deka too and it just shreds cardboard for days and I haven’t even had to strop it yet. After a little over a week and many boxes the edge still is still super sharp. Def very weird
Magna cut definitely depends on the heat treat. This one is probably a little too soft
I did put 2 MagnaCut mules in through some hard testing and this steel yielded only good results. Spyderco only got them to 62 or 63 Hrc maximum, but it's already really good at that hardness.
Thank you for your honesty
Did the heat treat get messed up maybe
Very interesting! Thanks for the testing and info.
I've been testing a magnacut kermode from tacticaleverydaydad here on the farm and at work I've had really good results im assuming heat treat is the absolute factor with magnacut im looking forward to try some from spyderco they really like to make sure they have got everything right before they release a new steel I'd like to see how it compares to what I have
I have magnacut at 60.5 and at 64rc. I had both my new sub zero magnacut Dekas poked at one is 60.7 and one at 60.3rc and my two Mule teams in it both tested at 64.2 and one at 63.6
I have card board test cut the mule team that's 63.6 and in a 1.5 inch section it cut 520 feet before no longer cleanly slicing printer paper across the grain. The Dekas I haven't cut test yet.
On the mule teams I have found it really really likes 20dps edges (apex would fail fairly quickly at 17dps) it also did better when I sharpened on metallic bonded cbn stones rather than my naniwa or venev bonded diamond stones. I assume the carbide structure likes the shallower cutting cbn over the more aggressive cutting diamond it deff holds it's bite/toothyness longer when sharpened on CBN over diamond. I will also test it on shapton glass stones and chosera stones and see how those edges do but right now I can safely say both the mule teams toothyness lasts longer when sharpened on cbn.
From my tests it really doesn't like to go lower then a 9 micron edge (F600g) and does best on a 17 micron edge (F400 grit) I have even tested it at F240 and it did well. Right now my ideal magnacut edge is finish on F400 and then strop on 12 micron cbn on soft leather to fully deburr (I have noticed magnacut will hold on to a burr pretty damn hard and it will wire edge on you in a heart beat) with EXTREMELY light passes and only a couple per side then finish on 8 micron cbn on a hard leather.
+1 to it holding on to a burr. Once I fully deburred, I got a great, lasting toothy edge off of DMT coarse and fine stones that showed great edge stability. That burr was stubborn at first, though.
cardboard is maid mainly of trash and abrasive sand particles is part of it. Normally you don't see a big difference, but I had some boxes which made my zdp189 and elmax knives dull and shiny in just 20 cuts. the rope test might help to restore your trust in very good knife, the dirty cardboard will kill even the light saber. Since realizing that I use my beautiful knives for everyday tasks, bushkraft, camping and etc but for cardboard I use exacto knifes period
What angle are you putting on your blade when sharpening your knife
That's wild. I've used magnacut ever since I got the Spyderco Mule. I get better edge retention than m390 and I have yet to get any kinds of chipping. I have had a few rockwell tested and I've used between 60.9 and 64.7. I much prefer it above 62, but even at 61 it was still fantastic. This definitely looks and sounds like a failed heat treat.
It might not have been heat treated?
Even with a bad heat treat it should hold an edge better than that.
It must be heat treat being too low again… I can’t wait to see what you think of another makers magnacut, sorry you’re not having luck with this one either!!
It's the heat treatment!!! I currently have 7 different magna knives and they all perform spectacular. Do you have issues with other knives or just this one? It's gotta be the heat!
What grit are you sharpening to? The only thing i can think of off the cuff is "teeth" of your toothy edge is folding over your apex and causing the symptoms of what you would get from a burr. I cant image the heat treat was done that poorly, i mean it sharpens and can achieve a fine edge, i juat has trouble reataining it. Even a very soft steel, low rockwell wouldnt dull or "roll" that quickly or easily. I would take it to a kitchen steel to realign the "teeth" then resharpen it starting with the lowest most agressive grit and completely reprofile the edge with that low grit, making sure youve formed a complete burr along the whole edge on BOTH sides and that youve removed the burr before going to a higher grit. What i do is a second pass, just one up and down pass on the side i started on to remove the burr of that grit before moving up in grit. so twice on one side, the second time just a single pass to remove the burr. I hope i explained that well enough. After youve gone through all of your grits i would stropp 10-15 passes each side, at about a 2° increase in agle to what you sharpened at to be sure that there is no burr or wire edge or folded teeth still hanging on. Lastly roll your ege back and forth under bright lighting and look closely for imperfections in the edge, like spots catching light or basically anything that does not look like a perfect apexed edge. I hope this finds you and that it helps. Im sorry youre going through this, it must had made your heart sink realizing something was wrong with your new knife. Ive had those experiences, its a big bummer.
Sorry i forgot to recommed what grit to go up to. Anything over 800 grit i would think would be high enough to not have a tooth edge, maybe go to 1000 just to be safe. I would also suggest going to a slightly steeper angle to remove the variable of rolling from the equation of what coyld ve happening. I dont know what angle youve been sharpening it at but id recomend picking it up to 20°-25° per side. Or if you would prefer to have thinner geometry keep your angle the same but add micro bevel slightly steeper than your secondary (conventional sharpening) bevel. The compound grind/ micro bevel i think would be the smartest way to go about fixing it, its what i would try if i were having this problem.
Even my Tactile Rockwall at 61hrc with factory edge cuts pretty well and strops back like a dream. I know it's soft Magnacut, but it still seems like pretty balanced steel with an emphasis on toughness
I had a K390 knife that did that, the Ladybug. I have 3 other blades in K390 that behave just right, but this Ladybug wouldn't get a damn edge for more than 2 minutes
Maybe it’s a quality control issue with the heat treat?
Definitely a heat treat problem. I've had something similar happen and it was confirmed to be improper heat treat. Hopefully that's the case considering i just ordered a knife with Magnacut (my first one).......
Curious if it’s a bad heat treat? Speaking from experience two steels with two different heat treats are two completely different experiences.
I know you like toothy edges but have you tried it with a very fine edge?
It's been awhile since I have watched your videos kiddo, nice to see ya again. Look forward to more videos 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
Don’t blame the steel…correct tempering means everything!
I imagine he tested the heat treat on the spine or tang. If that's the case, I have no idea what could of happened without knowing his process in making the knife. If he did test it, it would need to be a differential heat treat issue, it didn't hold the treatment at the edge as well as it did the spine. Or lost the heat treatment somewhere in the grinding process, if he even does it that way.
If he didn't test it, it might not even be magnacut as others have mentioned. Different steels require different treatment. I know you want to keep it but I'd send it back to have it fixed, it's basically a kitchen butter knife steel at this point.
Bad heat treatment. It’s a toss up every time you buy a knife. I just bought the tactile turn magnacut and going to give it a try
Bummer this knife performs this way i really like the looks of it to and the flat grind, i saw a DBK video on magnacut that gave a very good impression of the edge retention of a magnacut knife , Rock on girl take some rest first 🙂👍
I have a junko in magnacut from him in full flat ground and I reprofiled it because it wasn't even, but I did some testing and mine is holding a edge well I like it a lot. I used metallic cbn to 700js witch is 20-14 microns and finished off with a 4 micron strop its pretty fine edge I would maybe even prefer a more toothy edge but it cuts like a demon and holds its edge
That's really good to hear. The junko's look awesome I was thinking about getting one soon but I'm leaning towards a different model at the moment
The steel did not reach its own proper heat and tempering treatment , i have a 1/8 inch thick full flat grind in 1095 steel and i can cut through thick cardboard boxes and whittle wood and nor roll nor chip but after many and i mean many uses all i do is strop it with two compounds and razor sharp again but then again the knife was made individually by a custom craftsman and not mass produced
It seems like bad testing on the part of the manufacturer. Why would you build with a new steel and not do at least some testing on it so you don’t trash your reputation with bad product. It’s even more puzzling due to the fact that the first knife was bad as well.
Bummer bummer bummer!! Again? That’s gotta be frustrating for both you and John. I feel for you both, this must be what happens when you’re on the very cutting edge of something new and things suddenly stop moving forward. I’m he’ll get it right with time, and in a little time, you’ll have some Magnacut to test out for the channel. 💪🏻
Not to be truly ugly about it, but I've had gas station knives that held up better than that! I don't know anything about magna cut so I can really can't speak to what might be wrong with it, but I can tell no knife should be acting like that after two cuts three cuts whatever it was!
Either it’s heat treated extremely poorly, or it’s not actually magnacut? Do you know what HRC is, or what it’s supposed to be? My experience with magnacut at 63-64 HRC is completely different, that seems extremely fishy.
It’s supposedly 62-63
It didn't get heat treated, possibly. Send it back. They'll replace it.
Maybe hogue will give you a better result? They seem to be the first big company to commit to this steel
I have the same issue. I have tried several different edge angles. It either rolls or chips. Nothing in between. I think it’s all a hype that media has sold people out on. I’ve been using mine on soft Basswood for woodcarving. In sloyd knife form. Every other steel I have out performs it. By a long shot. And I spent three times more than I have on any other sloyd knife to get that steel. Just sad.
Dobrý deň, mám podobnú skúsenosť.. Včera dorazil Reiff F6 a po 1,5min. sekania dreva /2x+ pár hoblín/ a nôž sa vytupil.. prebrúsil som ho a skúsim ho ešte vyskúšať.. Prajem pekný deŇ
I hope you got your money back.
I wonder if the edge got overheated. John does a good job so not typical of what he does. Something happened that's not normal.
maybe try ordering a new hogue deka in magnacut. aren't available yet, but they're right around the corner. spyderco also has some magnacut natives on the way
Please for the love of God...try T Kell knives!
Go watch knife steel nerds, he is the actual creator of magnacut if I remember correctly. He is a steel genius, ask him in the comments and he can help you.
BGM Should be out of business making such useless garbage Like, don’t you test the product in any way shape or form before you sell? you can buy $40 production knives that can hold an edge for 10 times longer how pathetic smh
What knife is this?
I've seen a bark river bush crafter scout in Magna cut snap on another UA-cam channel. But I'm leaning to a heat treat issue. Looks like it was not even heat treated at all. It's seems way too soft.
wow, that's crazy, maybe he got a bad batch of steel or something. try sharpening at 20 degree per side, might hold the edge a little longer.
It must be a bad heat treatment... :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
From which brand is this knife?
I have doubts in the quality of magnacut. Survive Knives had some trouble with it. Check it out on their channel. Very interesting.
Maybe a new steel that some manufacturers haven’t worked out the heat treat/ process/ science yet?
Never should have been sold then
Magnacut I a difficult steel to heat treat it must be austenitized at very high temps around 1900-200 degrees, needs to be air quenched with plates or interrupted oil, must be tempered twice and can be cryo treated for better results, I recommend buying a blade made from it by a reputable source, no super steel should loose its edge so easily, whoever made that knife didn’t do it right
For cutting cardboard I'd recommend cpm-3v, cpm-20cv or M4
Nah 3V is for tougher tasks. Not great edge retention.
They messed up the soak time, leaving a soft core.
Sounds like bad heat treat. Perhaps on grinding out the edge it got to hot and ruined the treat on it as well. It could be the edge geometry as well.
The statistical stats of Magnacut aren’t desirable to me
Statistical stats?
Do you think you just got one with a bad heat treatment?
What if it’s not the heat treat and it’s actually not even Magnacut like they scammed you or something. What brand knife is that? It’s not a clone is it.
I don't have any yet but this is making me second guess it
That’s messed up what brand of knife is that ? I’m thinking about the survive 5.1 in magnacut hope it’s not from the but good info thanks
I’m at a loss 🤷♂️ It was cutting paper cleanly and after 6 cuts or so of cardboard and it was hanging up on the paper. I could tell you had a nice edge because of how quietly it initially cut through the paper. IDK all I can say is that really sucks. Thanks for sharing your results 👊
Maybe you need to baton through the cardboard lol omg how bad is that heat treatment I've seen 8cr13mov last longer
Have you tried a Polished edge yet? If not I’m curious about it
Yes I have. They all suck haha
Hello, I'm sorry, maybe I just missed it, but did you say mention the brand name of the knife, what you paid for it, the Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). The brand name and cost would be useful to people watch or subscribe to your UA-cam channel. I "jumped ahead" to another video (presumably the next) you made entitled "I cracked the code of Magnacut" and I did not hear you mention the brand or cost of the knife.
Looks like it hasn't been heat treated
The real question is: how could the thin edge be soft, when the spine is hard?
Some sort of bad temper?
Overheating while grinding, maybeeee tempering with a super thin edge where the absorbed heat sinks to the thin area. Not sure. Improperly processed, or maybe the chemistry of the steel is hard asf to get right.
The "chef" is more important than the ingredients.
All these fancy steels are just marketing to sell more knives for more money , I have no problems with the basic carbon steels 1095 , 01 , A2 , L6 , forged properly they work great and rust does not concern me since I oil the blades and clean them after use.
That would be bad heat treatment.
Sounds like bad heat treat. Or something else is wrong with that knife?
the knife maker forget the heat treat?
I'm guessing it's a bad heat treat.
First off thank you for the video updates. Taking your time to do them is really useful. Second, it sucks this is happening. I love John’s knives, but it seems fairly evident there is an issue. Hopefully he can work it out. To those actually reading these comments, I can attest to his awesome work with other steels. I have a 4” custom in Nitro V and have put it through solid abuse even batoning with it. No problems over the course of maybe 2+ yrs
Love your videos....relatively new subscriber. Best of luck on your new endeavors in Ohio. I already know your gonna kill it. Question.....have u even got a hold of a Bradford knife. I think they are some of the best semi production fixies in the game. I think a Guardian 3 would really fit your hand well and they several blade shapes, scale variations, and upper end steels. I have several Guardian 3s and several Guardian 3.5s. Just actually picked up a 3.5 in Magnacut. Love these blades.... drop me a line and tell me whatca think... HT in Arkansas...
Did anyone say it can be due to poor heat treatment?
This comment made me laugh out loud!
Interesting and honest review. It's been posted for a while now so I hope you found a resolution. I guess if I could go back in time 9 months I would suggest just keep talking to John. I would assume he would make it right for you by replacing it or something. But I hope you found something that works well for you.
Tons of new videos on it!
I'm betting that companies are in such a rush to get Magnacut knives to market that they're probably skimping on QC and taking production shortcuts, and I bet this particular blade either missed the heat treat somehow or just a very poor heat treat from being in a too-crowded oven.
It has gotta be heat treat issues, cause every magnacut knife I have has amazing edge retention.
When you did a zoom up of the edge the primary edge didn’t come up very far at all makes me think it’s like a 30° primary edge you need to hold your angle lower when sharpening I can see the primary edge it’s barely even there. This definitely doesn’t represent magnacut I cut an entire trashcan full of cardboard and it still hair shaving sharp but I heat treated it myself and I know what I’m doing. I’m not knocking John I don’t know if it’s the heat treat I’m gonna go with sharpening angle from this video it’s too thick at the Apex
So let me clarify the knife geometry and secondary bevel and behind the edge looks thin but the primary bevel looks very obtuse
@@knifesharpeningnorway No you’re right it shouldn’t role that easy
Looks like they forgot to quench it