So, I was wrong about Juno, and I am currently working on 2 videos to cover the Juno+Ana and Juno+Brig compositions respectively, as well as to talk about WHY I was wrong. For now, if you are interested in my early takes on Juno-based compositions, I have some videos out on my 2nd channel such as this one. As we see more Juno compositions we will get a better idea of how she is utilized and why she is utilized the way she is. ua-cam.com/video/6uukZYToI2A/v-deo.htmlsi=7jsoU5np_GdmDe0F
It baffles me they nerfed juno on release because her healing was apparently so high across all ranks of play, or at least that was the reasoning they gave. What's even worse is that they did it by nerfing her fire rate which affects both her healing and damage which simultaneously kneecaps her impact and makes her toothless and easy to just aggro on. 225 hp isn't helping at all.
the healing is high cause it has a ability that cant miss if you are looking in the general direction of the fight that heals a decent chunk, bliz not thinking as usual
@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaidbut that's the thing what's "too much healing" for the blizzard team because while torpedos heal a lot and it's easy to land it's not the only ability in the game like that. Baptistes aoe heal burst (which doesn't even require you to look at the team to heal them) and moira just spraying yellow mist in the teams general direction. I fail to see how juno could ever reach those healing numbers unless lower ranked baptistes and Moiras are physically incapable of healing someone other than the tank.
@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid that ability can easily miss if you line of sight it and run around a corner it can miss it has tracking but it's not unbreakable tracking
Yea if they wanted to nerf healing in her gun then they should've just done that and not nerf the dps as well. Imo they should've actually buffed the dps a little.
The thing is, doing damage on Juno is like doing damage on Lifeweaver, you sometimes need to, but it feels like shit, so most people just healbotted and tbh the Devs can be very random sometimes.
thats my thoughts, i feel like everything else should be brought down to her level. not the other way around. she feels SUPER honest. you play ur positioning correctly? you never die. you play too aggressive? you die all the time.
I know this is a weird comparison and that it's a game with a bad rep, but she's very much like Pit from smash brothers ultimate. Pit has a very strong kit, but he literally sucks due to no cheese. We have our Steve and Sonic (Kiriko and Illari), so why would you play a Pit (Juno) when you can cheese people out.
There's a common misconception that low impact means well balanced. Having defined strengths and weaknesses is good balance, this is identity and Juno simply doesn't have that. However, she doesn't annoy anybody due to her low impact, so it just feels like a well balanced character because you have nothing to complain about. Ana is an extremely well balanced character who has remained a community favorite for years. Ana has extremely high impact with plenty of crazy cooldowns. Same goes for Tracer. An absolutely strong pick with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. So strong she has stayed meta for most of the games lifespan.
Is so crazy to me that this game is at a point that characters are not good cuz they are balanced. This meta think is also very stupid to me that exists in a shoter game.
I think letting her shoot while aiming her torpedoes would fix a lot of the problems she has rn. She'd be able to fight duels better, and she'd have a reliable burst healing option that doesn't STOP her current healing. Her ult absolutely needs to be changed tho.
I also thought this. I think it's a better solution for improving the torpedoes than directly buffing them because they can quickly become overbearing due to being homing.
this. my biggest issue playing her is for her torpedoes you need either teammates or enemies or in best case both in your sight. but it has a set range it can lock on. and since a lot of teams like to push deep into battle you're left running in with them as this squishy, floaty support. and if any teammates that are low are out of sight or go behind you they lose out on that healing without even realizing. and while you're waiting for the torpedoes to even lock on you're watching as they're health goes down and that one person that is being focused on is left out to dry. and using the torpedoes on just them feels like a waste. lowkey the hero feels like they thought "i bet it would feel so good to hit all these people and do crazy damage and heals" but thats just not realistic. In most games people are fighting multiples battles. supports are bein flanked, tank is gettin in there making space and dps are supporting, support is sometimes behind you. lowkey her Ult might be improved if it deals at least some damage? cuz rn everyone just pushes you off it and now its this useless laser that doesnt do damage
Honestly, when I play Juno, I have trouble finding ways of making good impact, and when the enemy has a Juno, it's very easy to just ignore they exist.
Particularly, I find her pretty easy to dive too. She hasn't any dangerous ability that I have to worry, and she is easy to hit. Even Zenyatta, how is a diveable support, has his discord orb as a dangerous ability.
I really like the character. But it was a mistake to nerf both her survivability and her primary fire. Her survivability comes from movement and her shields, by nerfing her health she becomes extremely weak to chip damage(Sombra, Tracer, D.va) as that stops her self-healing. Her primary fire felt good in the test period, but now it feels sluggish and it is completely impossible to duel anyone. Buffing the reward on the auto-aim ability is also not a good move from a reception standpoint.
I dont see why she had the health nerf when she has no self sustain. The other mobile heroes have either super high mobility and/or good self sustain. Juno has no self sustain and average mobility. So the 225 health makes no sense to me. But I dont think 250 fixes anything, it just shouldnt have happened imo.
The general consensus during the early playtest was that she was fine and balanced - not OP or underwhelming. But for some reason the devs love to look at their stats (which btw DOES NOT reflect actual gameplay - think moira and her healing/damage stats) and thought "ykw lets nerf her health, healing AND damage"... ????
I remember playing a lil bit during her test period, and I was an gm player back in OW 1 so I wasn't terrible at the game, and I noticed, I can heal a decent amount but I do not have the potential burst healing and dueling ability of ana, dmg or utility of bap, the dps potential and stable healing of illari, tank busting ability of zen, or speed utility of lucio. Ow 2 doesn't have goats so raw healing isn't better than less but more burst oriented healing. You can be pocketing an orisa but she can still get busted down, where as ana nade, and heals, or suzu or immort have a much higher potential of keeping that orisa up. I remember when playing her, you never felt like you were contributing nothing, but you did feel that you couldn't impact the game as much as if u were on bap, illari, ana or kiriko.
No the general consensus wasn't that. The general consensus is what the developers wrote in the patch notes and they explained their changes around that. Go back and have a read - nowhere did they mention stats.
@@glossedghost I think you need to read the patch notes buddy… Taken EXACTLY from the patch notes: “Community feedback on Juno's trial was split between over and underpowered. On the *STAT* side, she performed strongly in most every categories but particularly overperformed in healing output over the course of a game”
@@uchihaavenger2068 I stand corrected. My gripe with your comment was that the general consensus was that she was fine and balanced when in fact people's opinions were much more mixed than that.
I haven’t been able to play in weeks and won’t be able to for a while (thanks tumor) and I’m sad that I can’t play Juno she’s so cute. On the bright side maybe she’ll be buffed a bit by the time I’m actually able to play again.
Hey! Thank you for the support and I hope you feel better. Let's hope for a Juno buff so you can come back when you are healthier and get some good playtime ^_^
She isn’t just designed to fail, she’s a failure of design, her mobility and speed boost boast that she’s a dive hero, her right click’s clunky usage and time to prime suggest poke to me, and her ult is a straight line heal and damage boost that feel like it could be a brawling ult, nothing about her kit feels harmonious with each other
Having all 3 brawl, dive and poke aspects makes her viable to be played in all playstyles, but because she has all 3 they balanced it by making her weak in all 3, so shes not actually the best pick in any of the playstyles. They should've just stuck with 2 playstyles and make her good in those e.g. getting rid of the brawl ultimate and switch it for something that enables dive or poke.
Real. When I heard she'd be super mobile and can speedboost, I thought "oh sick a new dive support" but she's just so squishy and doesn't have any abilities to save herself in a pinch except her flight and speed bubble. So I think they should let her charged missiles give her teammates a short burst of speed as well as regen. I think she should also be allowed to target herself as well so she can use it as disengage/extra burst of regen when pressured. With this she'd be more focused on utility, better at surviving, better at keeping the backline alive in a brawl, and she'd actually have a shot at replacing Lucio as the dive support. Also, they need to make it feel less clunky. Its satisfying to hit a bunch of missiles, but it takes so long to charge and she can't shoot while charging it. Let her charge and shoot off the missiles while primary firing AT LEAST. Finally, the last change I would do is making her ult more like her hyper speed bubble. Like instead if a lazer, she gets a huge hyper mega bubble that buffs speed, dmg, and healing recieved while you're inside it. Make it the size of magua cage so it basically covers the point and it can last 10 seconds or something, and it can actually buff everyone in the team. The lazer just sucks.
Nice video. Honestly, Juno makes me feel like the Overwatch devs aren't making characters based on meta-definition or team comps, and are much more focused on how a character plays at a personal level. The problem is, this means the character is often overloaded and busted(Mauga, release Ramattra, release Kiriko) or utterly useless(LW, now Juno) depending on the meta, which they aren't considering. Quite frankly I feel like they are trying so hard to make OW a casual game where you can pick any hero and have fun, but unlike other casual titles team comp is just too important to ignore for any level of play. A bad team comp just feels horrible to be a part of, and Juno manages to make any comp bad by her mere existence.
I figured the Koreans would catch on pretty quick. I'd agree with most of your points, they do try and make it a casual game but team compositions really do matter all the way down!
Well this is how they’ve designed hero’s from the very beginning for the most part. Since way back in OW1. The “hero fantasy” has always been the foundation for hero design, and then everything kinda builds on top of that. Not starting with a competitive mindset for the most part.
@@ever611at least at the start, they had a much more defined vision for how all the heroes interact which made it much easier to focus on that without fucking up the meta, everytime they add a new hero it makes it harder for them to consider the meta (which they barely do anyway lol)
My issue with her is that neither healing nor dpsing feels satisfying on her. It barely even feels like I'm healing at all with the gun, and the missiles feel slow when I need the burst healing or damage
ive had situations where i need thr burst from torpedoes but if i stop healing with the blaster theyll die immdiately instead of stalling until i can burst heal. 😭
@@peiithos Right? How did they not learn from Kiriko's slow tickets they had to buff? "Oh you're dying? Let me just... Lock on... Okay! Firing... Torpedo... En route..." Juno's movement feels great but the rest is clunky as hell.
@@renjia3504 Exactly!!! Literally no one is using her properly, I once put in 11k damage and 16k heals in a single match, nearly top fragging on my team and was top support in the game, she can easily sway the turns of a match if you play her right. I love giving my tank the speed ring so they can easily dive or escape. Rein/Junker are nearly unkillable with a good Juno
If they gave her the ability to headshot she'd be able to hold her own against most flankers and angles. That would allow her to fill the harder maps for lucio by basically being a ranged more healing centeic version of him.
@@TheLastEgg08 Her movement feels so bad, mainly her hover ability. Having no vertical mobility in a game where headshots are a thing is a death sentence
Then the other issue comes up where how do you help your other support which imo missiles helps a lot. Shoot a burst of your gun to heal, missiles, then continue healing and you probably keep them alive as long as the dive isn't too big.
@@organa1626 She’s not a high mobility hero at all, she’s so slow. I can do what she does in one Moira fade and I’d have much better results, poor Juno.
When she was first accessible for public on that free weekend i thought she wasn't that good like people were hyping it up At least she isn't broken or useless She is just mid
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Saladright? She was perfect during the tests. Many giving props to Blizzard. I was scared she would get buffed because she wasn't as powerful as Baptiste or Kiriko... So I was very surprised to read she was nerfed.
@@Maury_Productions There only reason given for her nerf is that she was outputting on average too much healing. She would have like 20k healing regularly even in low ranks. So yeah, seems like some of fundamental misunderstanding on Blizzards part on what to do with the character.
She needs to compete with Lucio as a main support. Give her headshots, make her flying less rigid, and turn her missile ability into a ana biotic grenade style ability, but of course lessen the heals it gives a little bit. I think having the ability to dispatch enemies quickly and in a rewarding fashion (headshots) creates a better environment for her to act as a main support and the biotic grenade passive she should get on her missiles will make that ability a central focus point of a her kit.
An idea I had for her missiles (that might be dogshit, admittedly) was to get rid of the lock-on system it has now. Make the ability so it shoots homing missiles in a range around her character and if she holds the button down it increases the range (with the tradeoff of the ability now having a cast time). It incentivizes her to play in her team (which is ideal for if we're trying to make her competitive with Lucio in brawl) and also gives her some nice burst healing/damage while maintaining the longer range poke damage it can do
@@organa1626 I don't think that's a dogshit idea at all. In fact, I think it's a really good suggestion should Juno need a rework of some kind. I had a thought on the rework of her missiles. To help sell the increase of range, maybe Juno could rise in the air as it charges, giving the ability more of a risk vs reward exchange if you want to get more value from it. Since she has vertical mobility already, it might not be too implausible and may even give her another niche form of repositioning mobility
I think a quick fix to help her out and make her feel better to play would probably be to allow her to continue shooting while charging the pulsar torpedoes. She could just hold down right click to start and release them instead. It would keep uptime on her damage and healing output and the only real issue I see with this is what new button to press to cancel it. (Maybe just let it time out to cancel it, idk) I think this would be a great help for her though.
I feel like her torpedos shouldn’t stop her from using her primary fire while they’re locking on, and that they are the key to making her more viable too by some buffs to their cooldown and/or output.
I feel that (at the moment) the general consensus on Juno is very positive because she is new. Of course she is fun, she is new. This is pretty common, even Mauga's release came with huge support and optimism from (especially) the casual playerbase. It takes times to begin to see flaws and for frustration to build, so as with all heroes, it's likely Juno will receive more criticism as time goes on. Now, as I state at the end of this video, I could be COMPLETELY wrong. I am working off of a hypothesis that I have built using my experience in the professional scene. There will probably be some wrong and some right in this video, and with time we will see the direction Juno moves in. This video isn't meant to be an Overwatch Doomer video, honestly this patch was pretty nice, I just want to see Juno become a very useful and dynamic character. I'd love for us to finally have a Lucio alternative, and Juno has some traits that are very good and can be built upon. I hope to see her gain viability in the future.
I think most of your critique was spot on. Juno will probably still have play of people that play her in ranked but will fall off in the pro scene due to not having the crazy levels of value that some of the other busted support kits can offer. Like hitting Ana grenade by itself has more value that Juno's entire kit lmao
Because I have enough experience to make educated opinions about a new release. I made this video for the same reason scientists make Hypothesis...so that I can set a basis for expectation and we can observe if the reality is different from what was expected. Honestly with Juno, it's pretty easy to see that she is bad and why she is bad. So I have a good amount of confidence in this video and the ideas that I present.
"she isn't very mobile." THANK YOU! I've been saying this and people are consistently calling her "hyper mobile." Hey, if you want to run 100% away from the fight, sure she can cover a lot of ground (but not as well as Lucio.) But that is NOT what you want to do to win fights. She needs to be able to be mobile IN the fight and she will quickly expend her cooldowns and be an easy kill. Even when she has her mobility up, it places her on a single flight path because she can't ascend or easily descend, and that makes her easy to hit. If the enemy are harassing her she can't fight back, so she is using all her time and movement to survive, during which she isn't healing much and she's using her only utility selfishly instead of enabling her team. Despite most of her kit being movement based, she's actually NOT as slippery as a Lucio or Mercy, or probably even a Moira (who can self heal AND does very well in duel against flankers.) Her torpedos are so slow to both lock and on travel they are a liability to use when you'd WANT to use them as a burst team heal, and using them as a threat to the enemy is a joke because it is trivial to peek in and out of cover denying her a lock on, or to just duck behind cover as soon as she launches the torpedos. Give players even more time to learn to do it and it's going to be rare that torpedos get much value at all against the enemy.
Also as far as giving her a boop, I'd suggest they add it to the hyper ring which feels like an ability that is BEGGING for something more to it to make it feel like it isn't just a worse alternative to Lucio speed. I think hyper ring should do what it does now, but ALSO boop away any enemy that tries to pass through it (or get too close), up to a maximum of once against each enemy. That would give her some self peel while she makes distance, something she desperately needs given her lack of self heal, AND give her a way to peel for a team mate while giving them a chance to make distance. The only down side is then she's even more so a weird alternate flavored Lucio.
Also, I think you COULD buff torpedos even though they are an easy lock on, because there are SO many things already working against them. They have an obvious sound cue to the enemy that a lock on is being attempted, they can peek cover in and out to avoid lock on, AND if they don't and a torpedo is launched they can STILL use a movement skill to evade them and get behind cover. Hell people often accidentally evade them ALL the time just by naturally playing cover. That's a LOT of counter play for an ability that only does 80 damage. There's plenty of abilities in the game that do as much or more damage with NO warning or easy counter play (including you know, instant death via sniper...) She isn't really rewarded for all the aim effort needed with her weapon, may as well make her lock on ability less ass. Also, she can't head shot. Her damage is low with no surprise burst. Giving her more reliable torpedos isn't going to turn her into an assassin, but giving torpedos a much faster lock on *might* allow her to defend herself more often.
I main Moira and played Juno a lot - Moira is absolutely more slippery than Juno because Fade lets y ou cover a lot of ground, get a high jump, and the enemy can't see where you went. Juno is awful in comparison for getting away - she isn't escaping a Tracer or a Sombra or a Reaper or a Genji. Maaaaybe she escapes Cassidy, but otherwise she's not successfully running away from most flankers
btw for juno ring, I have to tell that the projectile also applies speed boost, so you can shoot it through teammates to get a speed boost and then walk through the ring again to refresh it, extending the speed boost!
I think Juno’s niche is they’re trying to put her in a similar spot as Mercy. A safe feeling support that has broad appeal, and they can also make her another poster child for Overwatch. She makes you feel like you’re doing stuff and in a casual setting doesn’t feel sucky to play in the same way an Ana or Zen might get their teeth kicked in by a Tracer or Winston.
Yeah, but Mercy (on paper) is pretty simple. Heal/boost/rez. She lives and dies by numbers I think. Juno has dmg/heal/mobility/speed, and while she's fun, her impact is tricky to put on a board.
@@calus_bath_water legit just run around while sometimes pressing shift and crouch or space bar depending on what you're doing. mercy mains stay coping.
As somebody who used to be a mercy otp I can't lie if you are unfortunate enough to start the game playing mercy and nobody else, you are learning an entirely different game from anybody else. She is rather simple. Anything you struggle with will be something usually unencountered by other players
I'm a low GM Kiriko/Ana player, and am pretty decent on all the other supports. I have an account in high bronze that I decided to use to one trick Juno on when the new season started. My winrate by the end of my placements was *50%*. It's since gone up (~80% or so at the moment) but the fact that it was that low to begin with is insane. Some things that I've learned over the last 30-or-so matches are: - If my teammate is in a fight dying, I cannot save them like I could on Ana or Kiriko. - If I get attacked by a flanker, I am dead. - My healing stats will be about 2/3 of what they are on ana. - I will not be getting any kills, unlike on Kiriko. - The torpedoes have a charge-up time and take a long time to reach their target. Where nade, nano, sleep, life grip, or suzu could save someone that's under attack and in critical condition, if you're playing Juno then *they will die.* - Her ultimate takes WAY too long to build for what it is. - When she's damage boosted is probably the only time that her gun feels like it does anything. Why can't she headshot? Why does she have 225 hp? (she has movement abilities sure, but they're not the kind of movement abilities that are going to get you away from a flanker like tracer, sombra, monkey, doomfist, ball, genji, etc. etc.) Why does her blaster do such little damage? Why does her blaster do such little healing? Why do her torpedoes move so slow? (half the time they collide with a wall instead of hitting my teammate) I purposefully kept myself from reading anything or seeing anything about Juno prior to her release, and honestly the best thing that I can say about her is that she's not annoying to play against. Which is honestly more than half the cast can say. I feel like she just has NO burst impact potential as-is. I find her fun. But the reason why I like her is the same reason why I liked playing sombra during OW1, or why I liked playing Ana when she wasn't meta: she sucks, and getting good at a weak hero is fun in my opinion. Also I don't even really care all that much about cosmetics but seriously? She launched with basically nothing!
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l i mean.. a lot of these bronze players swear they belong in higher ranks. but anytime someone from a higher rank smurfs they cry and complain.
She’s not designed bad or a failure of design, she’s a fair and balanced character in a game with Mauga overdrive out healing and window amped bastion turret. Her kit is fine and doesn’t play the game for you, she’s better designed than life weaver will ever be and doesn’t have annoying immortality abilities like bap or kiri.
You know, a character that's "balanced" in game where almost everyone is powerful and does alot of things, is a weak character. A character that has no Impact in anything is not a balanced character either
Did you not watch the video? No, her kit is not fine, she has the exact same problems as Life Weaver and will continue to experience the same trends as him until she gets changed. The character has almost no identity, she lacks any strengths and weaknesses and has no consistent place in the game unless her numbers are ungodly high in every way.
Yeah and now she is the best support in the game, same shit with kiriko where these "expert" streamers and top 50 players were asking to swap her in games saying that she was ass.
I’m Plat-level and played my first three games of this season last night. I was support, always alongside a Juno. I went 2-1, and the scoreboard was horrifying. Each Juno I played with put up a Mercy-like K/D with about 30 percent of her healing. Juno offers little utility, laughably low healing and her ult is a non-factor. I’m not saying my experience represents the whole, but so far, my feelings about her line up with Coach’s. I can’t think of a comp in which she would be an ideal pick. I wouldn’t even call her niche.
I actually have like a 58% winrate only playing as her. About 60 games of ranked on her right now. The biggest factor is being able to aim. If you miss even a few of the pellets whoever your healing is just going to die. 12 pellets per burst is a lot. And being able to hit all 12 is gonna feel hard for most. I call them pellets because she has a nerf gun. It's also why her damage feels bad. If you don't land the whole burst good luck ever getting a kill. Bap burst is much more managable. Juno for sure will be more rewarding the better your tracking skills are. I think it'll take time for people to appreciate what her gameplay offers. She definitely needs some help though. But I really enjoy her! Even if she feels a bit weak. If they just made her smg full auto or make the bursts much faster she'll actually feel a lot better I bet. She doesn't even need headshot dmg just let her shoot faster. That'll bring her in line with the other supports.
@@Darkstar2425 These are very good points. I was just sharing my very early, very limited experience playing as her teammate. She does seem underpowered but I think implementing your faster burst suggestion would make a huge difference. Btw, I’m glad you’re having fun with her and winning at a nice clip! That’s awesome.
@@Darkstar2425 Juno basically demands the aiming skill of a zen orb valley all the time while not actually providing a lot more than he does. At this point she should be able to hs cuz it's already a skill demanding weapon to use, may as well up the rewards.
There's literally no flex support that enables rush. Adding this character to my lineup has increased my win percent and average rank by a considerable amount. She's insane with Rein, DVA, Ram, Orisa. Her main weaknesses can all be fixed with a simple change which is letting her shoot while charging torpedoes to have better duel potential and feel less clunky
There absolutely is a flex support that enables rush, there are multiple. Baptiste and Moira are both excellent at enabling the brawlier styles of composition alongside Lucio. Including both Lucio and Juno is largely redundant, and just leaves you with a lack of real aggressive pace or defensive backbone. Juno probably works fine at your level, but she's not well-built for the game around her. She's a generic support with no serious strengths or weaknesses, and as such she doesn't really fit anywhere.
@blazefactor6849 I'm M1 and I don't play Lucio nor do I have a Lucio on my team every game and I personally find speed to be better for me more than anything bap or Moira has
Team 4 buffing Kiriko because her performance is low compared to high pick rate just shows terrible balancing guidelines, there needs to be a drastic shift in mindset and reasoning/update frequency if Overwatch is to hit its stride again
Life Weaver shouldn’t be compared to Juno. He has a niche that works for him. He can save his allies and deny the enemy kills with all of his abilities. All Juno does is float around and heal/do damage.
A niche exists within the context of a metagame. Lifeweaver doesn't have a niche because he doesn't actually fulfill the roles required of him to work in any composition. Let's look at Brig Ana dive as an example of just why LW doesn't work. Brig's primary role in this composition is to act as Ana's bodyguard, peeling for her against major threats and supplementing her output. This is a role defined by peel, which in theory is something Lifeweaver should be good at, except substituting him in reveals that he's actually nowhere near as good of a peel support as he appears to be. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver can't be a threat when he's peeling for his teammates due to healing and damage being separate weapons. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver's peeling options are on long, easily-baitable cooldowns that leave his teammates open for extended periods of time. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver isn't tanky and has poor mobility with a big hitbox, meaning he's often just as viable of a dive target as Ana is. Saying that Lifeweaver has a niche because he can save allies completely ignores that the niche of peel support encompasses more than just helping them avoid damage once. His kit is all fluff, no function.
It's not that Juno is poorly designed. It's that she persists among other poorly designed overturned characters in a poorly designed/balanced game. So something good is bound to stick out like a sore thumb
This was my take away for the vid too. A game where only 2 supports are considered mandatory and everyone else is considered flex is the consequence of a game that is incorrectly designed at it's core.
brig and lucio are very well designed (brig not initially but they eventually properly carved out what she should be) they just have niches that are really valuable that blizzard havent bothered to contest, you want your supports to have some form of distinct value If they’re just heal bots like juno then they’ll compete with moira and then ur doomed to have a really low impact stat ladder that’s ppl bad at the game think is providing much more than they actually are
Why would you make her movement not retain momentum?? The entire reason the mobility heroes in game are fun is because they carry momentum while moving. The fact Junos movement has no "glide" to it feels extremely disappointing
5:06 THANK YOU. I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT I HATE THIS ULTIMATE AND THAT IT ISN'T THAT GOOD. BUT EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THAT HER ULTIMATE IS OVERPOWERED/GOOD. Mega hot take, I think her ultimate will be best if its stationary with a bigger radius. Idfk I just don't like how it moves forward.
This was a well put together video, Coach. I really enjoyed watching it! Concerning the “Fixing Juno?” Section, I feel like one potential fix would be buffing her pulsar torpedoes: Make them work more like Cassidy’s ult in that the fewer the targets, the faster it locks on (rather than based on distance), and it should also have a knockback effect that scales based on distance (i.e. really close enemies get a significant knockback and far away enemies get barely any at all). I think this would boost her utility tremendously. Concerning her ult, I think it should work like Ana’s ult-overcharge in that you can attach it to a character and it follows that character around. That’d allow for some really unique teamplay!
What if they gave her pulsar torpedoes a knock back effect against enemies, and allowed her to move vertically with glide boost. They could also give her a passive which heals her overtime while she is airborne to increase her survivability and reduce 25 shield. Her ult can be similar to Orisa’s old ult, in which she will place a turret that will damage boost instead of having a moving beam.
Here's an insane option that would give juno a niche but incredibly powerful ability, maybe on her ultimate, maybe on her gate: 5 seconds of anti-grav. Everyone in the gate or the ult or whatever gets moon jumps or maybe even flight. The vertical mobility on offer plus the speed would make her insane on maps like gibraltar for big brawl or dive pushes with characters that normally struggle with verticality like Rein, Ana, Bastion, Mei. Imagine the crazy plays that could occur as the Sigma on high ground watches the Rein fly over him to plunder his backline with a flying bastion in a dive comp. The carnage alone would make it worth it for one patch before it got nerfed to the ground. Or even with people like Winton. He jumps up to you regularly, you run away with your escape and then he uses his actual leap. The chase potential would be magical.
Don’t get why this video was made I thought she always felt great but now here she is at the top of the meta disproving this whole video anyways. Am I missing something? Because everyone in the comments is agreeing on Juno being designed bad but this is the only video I’ve ever seen NOT praising juno as a character
Watch the coach’s latest video on Juno and the pinned comment on this video lol. This is a prime example on why you shouldn’t make early assumptions and make quick conclusions about new heroes especially in a game like ow2.
I feel really validated hearing your critiques. I remember playing her in her test last month on stream and everyone pretty much saying I didn't know what I was saying and that she wasn't as bad as I thought, i just needed to play her more blah blah blah. Frankly it was hella exhausting. Like I know I'm not a pro, but I've pretty much only played support and all the signs were there, her kit felt incomplete and disjointed off the bat and I was right in thinking none of it would be fixed before hand. Her numbers felt inflated because they were overall so low that it took MORE to be seemingly effective. And a lot of her kit just felt clunky. She doesn't offer a strong enough utility to beat any of the other supports nor does she do enough damage (no headshots/damage fall off) or healing, and her "flight" feels really just weird without free verticality. Like she's...okay I guess but definitely one of the worse releases in a while (on a personal note I feel like as a "martian" her concept is just kind of poorly executed. I wish she had gravity control or something to make it more unique, they hyped her up so much and then she came out really generic to me. If her hyper ring had a slow effect for enemies it'd be infinitely more useful for instance at least to me. It's a weird ability because it doesn't really...do anything for most of the game for your allies after you get to the point. The added move speed for Juno is nice but the ring being a sonic ring to me just feels odd. and the ult not being placed in any really conceivable way hurts. I still don't get how it chooses where it goes and its speed is so slow that if you WANT to go in with it it just doesn't really work, unless Juno like flanks and manages to place it behind them? and then the team pushes in with it idk. its awkward)
3:42 wow finally someone points out that the devs have no idea how their game is played after almost 10 years of it being the dominant hero shooter on the market
Hmm... there are a few concerns I have had about Juno. For one, her torpedoes may be an incredibly wide area attack, more than almost any non-ultimate in the game, but it removes her ability to do anything else until she fires them. It's hard to use them to try and save an ally who is low on HP given the lock on time and it feels underwhelming unless you can get a good number of targets, which takes time and allows enemies to find cover. Plus all that extra damage is spread out, which can add pressure to eliminate a low enemy while the supports are busy healing someone else, but if no one get's eliminated, then there is a good chance that the more forgiving healing in the game will keep them safe and render the damage (mostly) moot. I almost would want to make it so she can lock on the torpedos while still having her blaster out, like how DVa can use her missiles and either matrix or her cannons. That and/or have lock ons to allies be instant, so she can try to burst heal a group at a moment's notice like Bap or Lucio. The torpedoes are fired hands free so I don't see any issue with still operating the mediblaster. It should be to aid in her healing/damage numbers in a match, not make them worse. The ult is also a bit awkward, and I would like it if she could designate a target for the beam to travel to and then stay at for the rest of it's duration for more control of where and how to use it, and maybe have some damage over time to enemies in it's AOE, not much, but enough to pressure enemies to not stay in it if they can help it and secure space, and it would block any passive self healing. Maybe 20 DPS at the most (it lasts 10 seconds).
I really like the idea of her ult being focused on her. I feel it would go a long way in making it feel more usable/consistently viable. Another idea that might work is being able to stop/reverse the momentum of the ult somehow. Maybe by pressing the ult button again? I think it'd help prevent the situation of trying to use it, but it ending up in a position you do not wanna fight in
08:20 She can't even be played with lucio like this, because the ring speed boost doesn't stack well with lucio's boost, because the game has a Speed Boost Cap which is just barely above Lucio's AMP
You have a bit of a misunderstanding in regards to how that composition would work. You are correct, stacking Lucio AMP and Juno speed would be nonsensical, so obviously teams won't be doing that. Instead, most teams attempting the composition start with Juno ring and keep going with Lucio speed after the ring ends. Of course, such a composition still lacks sustain and will not last very long.
Great video! Love getting the prospective from people that know what they’re doing. Me personally? I just need no damage or healing falloff and for the pulse bubbles to push enemies backwards. Her ult is ok, but having it centered around her instead of moving on its own would be freaking amazing!
@@Gabe7Gal I wasn't saying how fun a character is depends on how new players like them, I'm saying that the fact she's no fun at all for new players is very emblematic that she's not an inherently fun character. I would say she isn't particularly more fun than a hero like Soldier 76 since their movement is minimal and their main form of interacting with the game is basic hitscan guns. Compare that to Doomfist, or Reinhardt, or Tracer.
I'm not gonna lie, while I agree making Juno a viable Lucio alternative is the ideal, I think specifically for rush that isn't really possible without a gigantic rework. The benefits she boasts over Lucio are mostly range and high ground access - 2 things rush really does not care about. Meanwhile it costs you speed uptime and power, as well dps potential - things you REALLY care about in Rush. I think the only niche that can work out for Juno realistically is Ana Juno dive. I feel like that's the most realistic path forward, since Dive is the only comp I can think of that cares about Speed, Range, and having high ground (at least for the backline) all at once. Obviously right now it doesn't work because of the falloff, as well as Juno's inability to keep her Ana up. Either Juno is in the fight with her team, and leaving Ana to the Sharks (not to mention, leaving herself open) - or she's in the backline where she should be, but unable to speed her team, or provide substantial healing from such a distance. So here's sorta my minimum possible effort mini-rework: - Damage and Healing Falloff removed - Juno can now headshot (but has 1.5x Damage Multiplier instead of 2x) - Hyper Ring Cooldown reduced to 12s - Hyper Ring now travels an infinite distance, deploying either on contact with a surface, or by pressing the ability button again to deploy it mid-air. --- I think that makes her a viable pick to pair with Ana in Dive, but even still, there's issues. The Ult still makes very little sense for a Dive team, and is very easily countered. So here's some further changes I'd like, but I realise would be more work. - Orbital Ray is now targeted, the beam begins from the position you are looking at when the ultimate is activated - Orbital Ray now deals 60dmg/s to enemies inside the Ultimate (not much, about moira's dps, just enough to make it a threat worth considering) - Orbital Ray AoE Size increased by 50% - Orbital Ray now also grants +20% Speed - Orbital Ray travel speed increased from 2.25m/s to 5m/s The increased travel speed is a nerf, but should hopefully be offset by the increased size, and is done because part of the reason this ult makes no sense is because it kinda demands your whole team clump in one tiny spot... Which would work in Rush, but we already explained she isn't good at that, and in Dive people don't group up in a death ball like that because you need to take multiple angles. The movement doesn't necessarily _fix_ that, but it does make it more feasible to maybe catch 2 people on one side of the map with the start of the ult, and maybe make its way over to the other angle you're trying to pressure by the end. Another funny alternative would be to keep the small and slow beam but remove all the heal and damage boost, and instead make it slow enemies - though that's getting a bit more into the territory of just making a new ultimate. The other issue of course, is peeling for backline. The hope would be that speed would be enough, and that cooldown reductions on Hyper Ring could do the job, but of course, that seems a little unlikely to pan out. Assuming it doesn't, Juno would kinda just need a slow or knockback, but I can't think of any easy way to introduce it to her kit. You could put a slow on Pulsar Torpedos, but I think the lock-on time would be too long to bail out your Ana. You could give her Zen's Snap Kick but... _i do not think that would be appreciated in the long run..._ 0 cd knockbacks are definitely kinda sus. So, I'm not sure if this would do the trick, but I have one last idea... - Hyper Ring also grants a +100% boost to jump height This could also potentially apply to Orbital Ray. That might help Ana create distance and escape dives more effectively without needing a CC to protect her, but since it's an effect we've yet to see in the game, it's hard to say. That's my best effort at fixing Juno currently.
I feel like the new supports for overwatch 2 (aside from Kiriko) are all designed for a casual player base. Lifeweaver illari and Juno just aren’t really designed to compete in pro play, but to have a brain dead playstyle that’s easy to pick up as a new player. You would have to make the numbers way higher but then casual play is broken so there’s nothing they could do besides rework them.
Illari is definitely designed for ALL play, it's almost impossible to go wrong while playing her, as long as you can place Pylon in a decent spot where the enemy team cannot interact with it, you've got free value with a now unpushable spotl
@@Lusmun_kolo yes but often only bc shes overtuned, and not often at all. She functions just as a better/ another dps at holding long angles with her near invincible pylon angles. Other than that she offers nothing. Shes not really designed for pro play and if she does see play, its mostly bc the balance is once again fcked up
Meta-oriented design aside, I just wish she had more of an identity in her kit connected to her intended playstyle and/or her personality. With JQ she has her knife, her ult, shout, and her axe with it's reset reinforcing her all-in brawler character in both aspects. Reinhardt has a less complicated kit but still reflects his history and gameplay, Reaper's kit lends itself to effective flanking and 'returning to the shadows' when necessary, and so on. With Juno, she's bounces and floats around because... she's bubbly? I mean I guess. The rest of the kit is visual identity, spectacle for the most part, because there's no real playstyle synergy, she's just... there.
The most common backlines Bap+Lucio Kiri+Lucio Ana+Brig Ana+Lucio Bap+Brig Bap+Illari Ana+Illari Bap+Zen Moira+Lucio All of these Supports successfully fill a niche and do SOMETHING that provides value, they have something that they can do very very well. At the moment, the only weak supports are LIfeweaver, Mercy, and Juno. The issues with the three all have to do with kit design flaws. No, the other Supports are not "overpowered" they are just good at something, they are decent.
Would love to see... 1. Orbital Ring be re-selectable after activation to move it to a target position; 2. Hyperring use energy instead of a fixed CD, with cost increased after use (decreasing linearly back to normal over its cooldown as to be sustainable on CD but usable consecutively at a penalty); and 3. Pulsar Torpedoes are instantly usable and may strike the same target if there are fewer than 4 to hit, though damage of additional hits to the same target are increasingly halved (80|40|20|10 for 80|120|140|150 damage total) and the projectile size of pulsar torpedoes are now at the minimum projectile size. While this may simply pass around the knees and shoulders of a Tracer from point-blank range, one should be able to land one half or the other against small targets and point-blank burst larger targets for self-defense.
what? that means juno should keep up with the power creep and be as strong as the other characters. if a hero is weak in a game with strong heroes that doesnt make her balanced, that makes her underpowered.
@@inbeing3464no, that means the overpowered heroes should be slightly brought down to be more balanced, or else you have some heroes that are constantly meta and some that never are
@@bfsobnfsThats illogical. Why would they bring down EVERYONE else for the sake of Juno? It's way easier to just make Juno stronger and have some impact
As you said in prior comments, she does lack a place at the moment but as a character I feel like she has good possibilities in terms of ability reworks/tuning
wtf people still play this game, I never knew people still played overwatch 0.5, my fav was overwatch 1 when it came out long long ago in the distant past
I got an idea with her turrets. The turrets could follow teammates[by pressing the ability on a teammate nearest turret will go to them] similar to zen but also deal damage. This could help protect the backline and backup flankers such as Genji. The turrets should be destructible so as not to make it overpowered and its hp would be 100% shield so that in the case of it surviving the ambush, it could repair itself. On destruction, the turret will take x amount of seconds to rebuild itself and be resent again similar to sym turrets. Next up, Her ult could enhance the Turrets so that it does dmg boost, heal and speedboost at the cost of direct damage. Also, the amount of ult charge needed should be less, as to make it an engage or stabilize ultimate. For Blasters, it would be cool that in the case Juno has some turrets left,the turrets shoot with the blasters. This will require Juno to choose between supporting a teammate and dealing damage. Also, the turrets get recalled with reload as she gets unlimited ammo. For her movement, it would be cool to be able to dash with her flight. this will also make her harder to hit as it can be pressed whenever and if it isn't enough maybe a millisecond short invincibility frame for avoiding hitscan shoots would help with her vulnerability. When it comes for her speedboost ability,maybe instead of creating a huge wall,juno could individually apply it to a teammate or an area. This would be beneficial with keeping immobile teammates alive,and with her ult giving speedboost to pretty much the whole team,changing this wouldn't hurt her at all. With this rework,I believe she could fit very well in the main support category,as she would be really good with supporting teammates but also being able to deal dmg when it is needed. Ps. She gets more turret slots in her ultimate so to give one to each teammate, a recall range could be implemented in the ult as to stop long-distance attacks as that would be op but without the ultimate, An unlimited range will help with her not being compatible with dives.
What you're proposing is gutting her kit and make her more useless in a rework. I've played with her enough to know that her torpedoes are a good utility move.
This is centered around making her useful in comps. While yes torpedoes work well in solo queue what about in OWCS or high ranks? She just is LW 2.0 no point to play her outside of low ranks or just for fun not a hardcore grind or proplay. (I play a lot of juno)
My main issue with Juno is actually her torpedo ability. A lot of times, just shooting primary fire feels better than waiting for the lock-on when you're using it for critical allies. There's been a lot of situations I've had where teammates who actually need the heal, just die before the projectile hits them. It can also be blocked by shields, or end up missing due to travel time (Players walking out of LOS and the projectile hitting a wall instead). To hit enemies she also needs to expose herself the entire time it takes to lock-on, and she's so squishy that its a big risk. So, you're usually gonna want to use one of her speed abilities during that. There's too many factors on her torpedo ability actually getting value that it just... feels useless a lot of the time, IMO. Also.. A solely heal/dmg ability is not 'utility.' Speed boost, anti-nade, immort/suzu, etc. - those are utilities.
I understand ur point. but pls dont take my torpedo's I beg u I'm actually in love with junos base kit I really love her mobility the speed ring and the torpedos id be super sad if any of them changed, I wouldnt mind the ult changing because man it really is annoying to use although I do like the aesthetic of it the beam is cool. I wonder if it would be better to give junos ult 30% damage reduction instead of damage boost so its harder to be forced out of the ultimate or maybe just half the healing (50hp/s instead of 100hp/s) (mercy does 65hp/s) and double the area of effect and make it stationary.
Ngl I thought Juno absolutely blows and sucks when I first tried her but as my team used her more often she ended up being like, insanely useful. Not sure why people seem to think she’s horrible. Maybe it’s my rank? I float around between gold 1 and plat 5,
this video is great! it’s everything i thought about juno when she was fully released. also i love your reimagined version of juno that can rival lucio, the centered ult is genius 😊
i don't like today's hotfix for juno, if I could offer an alternative hotfix without a rework i think she could cook with: 1) 1.5 headshot multiplier (damage only) self explanatory she needs the ability to duel and not just be scared out of any position 2) speed ring ~15 hps (45 healing over 3 seconds after entering ring) OR give glide boost a ~12 hps (48 healing over 4 seconds) i think this hero will be ass as long as she doesnt have a self heal, i think giving her a light self heal on her glide boost or a small heal over time on her ring does a lot to make her feel less fragile while not broken sustainwise 3) allow her to shoot her gun while casting missiles spilo change but it just feels like it'd be nice to experiment with 4) give her 250 hp like why was this even nerfed there was no way she was overperforming in the beta test and she has no self heal like the other supports that got 225'd?? 5) lower missile damage/healing from 85->75 maybe not a necessary change but maybe it compensates a bit for allowing her to shoot while casting and i think the impact of this ability would be much greater considering my proposed sustain changes greatly increases her ability to shoot missiles on an soft-medium off angle and hit a ton of targets i think this would be a good baseline to then adjust her specifically to what she needs to compete for specific playstyles
i dont think they should give her 250 health back, giving her that heal in speed ring would be enough self heal IMO, she is already pretty hard to hit with a double jumping baby diva sized hitbox. they should be nerfing more heros health pools, i think genji should go to 225 with some added buff like an extra dash at the end of blade or something. in my opinion sojourn should also have 225, her hitbox is simply too small and her movement is very good.
Reversing the fire rate tweak they did before release but after the trial would help wonders. Allowing for headshots (both damage and healing), even if weaker headshots and not full crits, would be an interesting way to capitalize on the rapid-fire nature of the gun-- It also would be nice to allow firing the gun during torpedos, instead using other keys to fire/cancel (such as pressing the ability key again). This would make it a better tool in 1v1s. Maybe give it a bit of a knockback directly away from you. Could see that being used in a fun way. As to the ultimate-- It could be neat if it instead moved towards the nearest ally, which would allow it to sort of trail along wherever it's brought. Idk, just some random concepts.
it's almost like they just wanted to make a, cute, fun, and unique character and weren't trying to upend the entire meta they've been trying to balance for years for no reason, everyone always complains when the new hero is busted, Ram, Mauga, etc... and now y'all are complaining she's not? make up your minds
@@eddy_is_a_squidpotatoe471 okay? what does that have to do with what I said? are all the other characters equally viable in comp? Not even close, so what's the problem?
@@canadiangopnik7007 Because releasing a character that's just not good is dumb? This is a Competitive game not some fantasy RPG. You don't release characters and make them average to slightly below average for "funnies" her being "cute" or some stupid stuff doesn't mean she has to be bad.
@@eddy_is_a_squidpotatoe471 considering that every time they release a new character the entire community complains they’re too strong, of course they’d end up toning one down, and instead of being thankful that they’re listening, we’re just flaming them more, because she’s NOT broken, and besides, games are meant to be fun, they released a fun character, what’s the problem?
@@canadiangopnik7007 There's nothing wrong with releasing a new character don't try to put words in my mouth. This is a competitive game, you don't release characters for "fun" them being "cute" doesn't mean they have to be bad. Not a hard concept to grasp.
your theory holds up, I couldn't find any way to make her feel nice to swing fights compared to just playing Ana / Brig. We definitely need a new main support and I hope the devs take a long good look at Lucio again as a reference.
@@Coach_Ocie I feel like keeping it (without something more obvious than a pinned comment) is against educating people, since those who wouldn't go to comments section to see what's up may take it as truth from a credible source and even spread it further
Nah not really. I say in this video that my takes on Juno here are opinions and that I could be wrong. I make this very clear at the end of the video as well. This is not an entirely objective piece and it is based on early analysis.
I think her Orbital Ray should also provide you with the speedboost effect that the speed ring provides. This makes it so even if you're forced out of the ult, you gain a speedboost to reposition, Or if you're trying to push forward and the ult is too slow, you can still have a speed effect active while pushing ahead of the beam. I'd say to also let the duration last until the ult ends. If you get it at the start of the ult, you gain the full effect and if you receive it at the end, you get almost nothing. This would incentivize that you play around it during the start and end rather than just touching the ult at the end to gain a speedboost.
I'll basically OTP her anyway, she's all around balanced in an unbalanced game, in my opinion they should get rid of suzu and immo invol, unfortunate that I can't play her in scrims except for trying to touch point for OT 💀 I will say however I think in terms of mobility she's way better than kiriko, because kiriko has to rely on teammates being in safe positions to live which is unreliable. In my experience playing juno she's best to play with monkey, dva and oddly reinhardt. A good combo is to play Bap/Kiriko along with juno to still have that immo utility. As someone who dislikes playing lucio she's a good alternative in my eyes, but that's my casual take.
A band aid fix imo would be letting her crit but not by headshot. Instead when landing all of her shots the last one crits with the damage being damage overtime, like Ana. The trick though would be that the crit damage could stack creating a large amount of pending damage on a player making her poke more threatening. Also a change to torpedoes would be to make them flares where you shoot them at the map and they would shoot fire upwards like how sym turrets worked in the april fools mode but obviously much bigger. You would shoot a barrage of flare projectiles that follows your crosshair over a couple of seconds.The fire itself would be low damage damage overtime (like soj orb kinda damage) but the value would be being able to use as a 'soft' mei wall where you cordon off larger areas with the damage and the visuals giving juno much more map controls than other supports.
So, I was wrong about Juno, and I am currently working on 2 videos to cover the Juno+Ana and Juno+Brig compositions respectively, as well as to talk about WHY I was wrong. For now, if you are interested in my early takes on Juno-based compositions, I have some videos out on my 2nd channel such as this one. As we see more Juno compositions we will get a better idea of how she is utilized and why she is utilized the way she is.
ua-cam.com/video/6uukZYToI2A/v-deo.htmlsi=7jsoU5np_GdmDe0F
Main Channel Video Covering Ana+Juno
ua-cam.com/video/GA4XUn1CeAI/v-deo.htmlsi=sifd9ds48Tywbr9T
So many people would just take this one down, I really like your choice not to do that
It baffles me they nerfed juno on release because her healing was apparently so high across all ranks of play, or at least that was the reasoning they gave. What's even worse is that they did it by nerfing her fire rate which affects both her healing and damage which simultaneously kneecaps her impact and makes her toothless and easy to just aggro on. 225 hp isn't helping at all.
the healing is high cause it has a ability that cant miss if you are looking in the general direction of the fight that heals a decent chunk, bliz not thinking as usual
@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaidbut that's the thing what's "too much healing" for the blizzard team because while torpedos heal a lot and it's easy to land it's not the only ability in the game like that. Baptistes aoe heal burst (which doesn't even require you to look at the team to heal them) and moira just spraying yellow mist in the teams general direction. I fail to see how juno could ever reach those healing numbers unless lower ranked baptistes and Moiras are physically incapable of healing someone other than the tank.
@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid that ability can easily miss if you line of sight it and run around a corner it can miss it has tracking but it's not unbreakable tracking
Yea if they wanted to nerf healing in her gun then they should've just done that and not nerf the dps as well. Imo they should've actually buffed the dps a little.
The thing is, doing damage on Juno is like doing damage on Lifeweaver, you sometimes need to, but it feels like shit, so most people just healbotted and tbh the Devs can be very random sometimes.
feels like she is just a balanced character in a game that has had some crazy unbalanced abilities
thats my thoughts, i feel like everything else should be brought down to her level. not the other way around. she feels SUPER honest. you play ur positioning correctly? you never die. you play too aggressive? you die all the time.
I know this is a weird comparison and that it's a game with a bad rep, but she's very much like Pit from smash brothers ultimate.
Pit has a very strong kit, but he literally sucks due to no cheese.
We have our Steve and Sonic (Kiriko and Illari), so why would you play a Pit (Juno) when you can cheese people out.
There's a common misconception that low impact means well balanced. Having defined strengths and weaknesses is good balance, this is identity and Juno simply doesn't have that. However, she doesn't annoy anybody due to her low impact, so it just feels like a well balanced character because you have nothing to complain about.
Ana is an extremely well balanced character who has remained a community favorite for years. Ana has extremely high impact with plenty of crazy cooldowns. Same goes for Tracer. An absolutely strong pick with clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. So strong she has stayed meta for most of the games lifespan.
@@thiefpotato2759Thanks to this comment, my headcanon is now that Kiri mains would all be Sonic mains in Ultimate, playing for time outs.
Is so crazy to me that this game is at a point that characters are not good cuz they are balanced. This meta think is also very stupid to me that exists in a shoter game.
I think letting her shoot while aiming her torpedoes would fix a lot of the problems she has rn. She'd be able to fight duels better, and she'd have a reliable burst healing option that doesn't STOP her current healing.
Her ult absolutely needs to be changed tho.
Exactly
I also thought this. I think it's a better solution for improving the torpedoes than directly buffing them because they can quickly become overbearing due to being homing.
this. my biggest issue playing her is for her torpedoes you need either teammates or enemies or in best case both in your sight. but it has a set range it can lock on.
and since a lot of teams like to push deep into battle you're left running in with them as this squishy, floaty support. and if any teammates that are low are out of sight or go behind you they lose out on that healing without even realizing.
and while you're waiting for the torpedoes to even lock on you're watching as they're health goes down and that one person that is being focused on is left out to dry. and using the torpedoes on just them feels like a waste.
lowkey the hero feels like they thought "i bet it would feel so good to hit all these people and do crazy damage and heals" but thats just not realistic. In most games people are fighting multiples battles. supports are bein flanked, tank is gettin in there making space and dps are supporting, support is sometimes behind you.
lowkey her Ult might be improved if it deals at least some damage? cuz rn everyone just pushes you off it and now its this useless laser that doesnt do damage
That would feel really nice, but then her 1v1s would be impossible to lose
@@penrilfake this coupled with the ability to go down faster would fix her character specifically in glide mode
Honestly, when I play Juno, I have trouble finding ways of making good impact, and when the enemy has a Juno, it's very easy to just ignore they exist.
Particularly, I find her pretty easy to dive too. She hasn't any dangerous ability that I have to worry, and she is easy to hit.
Even Zenyatta, how is a diveable support, has his discord orb as a dangerous ability.
What? She has been out for 2 days. Tf are you guys talking about. just figure her out more?
@@nashineworks8318 I need more time playing against her, probably.
@@Truthforeals 🗿 did you really just call Juno slow? Yeah you have not touched her.
I’ve won games because the enemy team was ignoring me… (as juno) but to be honest that was only on the first day. Haven’t been on since.
I really like the character. But it was a mistake to nerf both her survivability and her primary fire. Her survivability comes from movement and her shields, by nerfing her health she becomes extremely weak to chip damage(Sombra, Tracer, D.va) as that stops her self-healing. Her primary fire felt good in the test period, but now it feels sluggish and it is completely impossible to duel anyone. Buffing the reward on the auto-aim ability is also not a good move from a reception standpoint.
I dont see why she had the health nerf when she has no self sustain. The other mobile heroes have either super high mobility and/or good self sustain. Juno has no self sustain and average mobility. So the 225 health makes no sense to me. But I dont think 250 fixes anything, it just shouldnt have happened imo.
Well, this aged terribly
What happened
She's hard meta@@jweezy_864
@@jweezy_864Juno is top Tier
This hits like that one Smash player saying Steve was a bad character
The general consensus during the early playtest was that she was fine and balanced - not OP or underwhelming. But for some reason the devs love to look at their stats (which btw DOES NOT reflect actual gameplay - think moira and her healing/damage stats) and thought "ykw lets nerf her health, healing AND damage"... ????
I remember playing a lil bit during her test period, and I was an gm player back in OW 1 so I wasn't terrible at the game, and I noticed, I can heal a decent amount but I do not have the potential burst healing and dueling ability of ana, dmg or utility of bap, the dps potential and stable healing of illari, tank busting ability of zen, or speed utility of lucio.
Ow 2 doesn't have goats so raw healing isn't better than less but more burst oriented healing.
You can be pocketing an orisa but she can still get busted down, where as ana nade, and heals, or suzu or immort have a much higher potential of keeping that orisa up.
I remember when playing her, you never felt like you were contributing nothing, but you did feel that you couldn't impact the game as much as if u were on bap, illari, ana or kiriko.
No the general consensus wasn't that. The general consensus is what the developers wrote in the patch notes and they explained their changes around that. Go back and have a read - nowhere did they mention stats.
@@glossedghost I think you need to read the patch notes buddy…
Taken EXACTLY from the patch notes:
“Community feedback on Juno's trial was split between over and underpowered. On the *STAT* side, she performed strongly in most every categories but particularly overperformed in healing output over the course of a game”
@@uchihaavenger2068 I stand corrected. My gripe with your comment was that the general consensus was that she was fine and balanced when in fact people's opinions were much more mixed than that.
I haven’t been able to play in weeks and won’t be able to for a while (thanks tumor) and I’m sad that I can’t play Juno she’s so cute.
On the bright side maybe she’ll be buffed a bit by the time I’m actually able to play again.
Hey! Thank you for the support and I hope you feel better. Let's hope for a Juno buff so you can come back when you are healthier and get some good playtime ^_^
@@Coach_Ocie
Get well soon friend I hope you recover stronger than ever
get well soon 🙏🏾❤️
I hope you’ll get well soon and return to the game and play Juno for yourself.❤
12:04 the fact that you had to put the definition of hypothesis does not bode well for the intelligence of OW players.
She isn’t just designed to fail, she’s a failure of design, her mobility and speed boost boast that she’s a dive hero, her right click’s clunky usage and time to prime suggest poke to me, and her ult is a straight line heal and damage boost that feel like it could be a brawling ult, nothing about her kit feels harmonious with each other
Having all 3 brawl, dive and poke aspects makes her viable to be played in all playstyles, but because she has all 3 they balanced it by making her weak in all 3, so shes not actually the best pick in any of the playstyles. They should've just stuck with 2 playstyles and make her good in those e.g. getting rid of the brawl ultimate and switch it for something that enables dive or poke.
So basically an attempt at another Kiriko
Having movement abilities does not make her a dive hero lol
Real. When I heard she'd be super mobile and can speedboost, I thought "oh sick a new dive support" but she's just so squishy and doesn't have any abilities to save herself in a pinch except her flight and speed bubble.
So I think they should let her charged missiles give her teammates a short burst of speed as well as regen. I think she should also be allowed to target herself as well so she can use it as disengage/extra burst of regen when pressured. With this she'd be more focused on utility, better at surviving, better at keeping the backline alive in a brawl, and she'd actually have a shot at replacing Lucio as the dive support. Also, they need to make it feel less clunky. Its satisfying to hit a bunch of missiles, but it takes so long to charge and she can't shoot while charging it. Let her charge and shoot off the missiles while primary firing AT LEAST.
Finally, the last change I would do is making her ult more like her hyper speed bubble. Like instead if a lazer, she gets a huge hyper mega bubble that buffs speed, dmg, and healing recieved while you're inside it. Make it the size of magua cage so it basically covers the point and it can last 10 seconds or something, and it can actually buff everyone in the team. The lazer just sucks.
Soldier has a movement speed abilities, does that make it dive? No, most of char rn has at least one big movement ability
Nice video. Honestly, Juno makes me feel like the Overwatch devs aren't making characters based on meta-definition or team comps, and are much more focused on how a character plays at a personal level. The problem is, this means the character is often overloaded and busted(Mauga, release Ramattra, release Kiriko) or utterly useless(LW, now Juno) depending on the meta, which they aren't considering. Quite frankly I feel like they are trying so hard to make OW a casual game where you can pick any hero and have fun, but unlike other casual titles team comp is just too important to ignore for any level of play. A bad team comp just feels horrible to be a part of, and Juno manages to make any comp bad by her mere existence.
Also, your opinion is widespread in the Korean server, you are not alone in having reservations about her place in the meta-game.
I figured the Koreans would catch on pretty quick. I'd agree with most of your points, they do try and make it a casual game but team compositions really do matter all the way down!
Well this is how they’ve designed hero’s from the very beginning for the most part. Since way back in OW1.
The “hero fantasy” has always been the foundation for hero design, and then everything kinda builds on top of that. Not starting with a competitive mindset for the most part.
It's like they don't have a vision, they mix everyone's ideas and don't test them to see if they mix well with already is in the game
@@ever611at least at the start, they had a much more defined vision for how all the heroes interact which made it much easier to focus on that without fucking up the meta, everytime they add a new hero it makes it harder for them to consider the meta (which they barely do anyway lol)
My issue with her is that neither healing nor dpsing feels satisfying on her. It barely even feels like I'm healing at all with the gun, and the missiles feel slow when I need the burst healing or damage
ive had situations where i need thr burst from torpedoes but if i stop healing with the blaster theyll die immdiately instead of stalling until i can burst heal. 😭
@@peiithos Right? How did they not learn from Kiriko's slow tickets they had to buff? "Oh you're dying? Let me just... Lock on... Okay! Firing... Torpedo... En route..." Juno's movement feels great but the rest is clunky as hell.
are people having bad aim with trying to heal with her? she's been dominating all my lobbies with high healing and damage
juno being kinda bad is what makes me wanna play her, there's something about taking a bad character and making it work that is so interesting to me
Ahhh so you’re literally all the Moira players in my ranked games
@@fudmannersonI’m sorry??? Moira bad???
@@mr.pig1528 absolutely
@@fudmannerson all jokes aside I consider moira to be one of the better supports for low ranks
@@mr.pig1528 she's good for low ranks but falls off tremendously outside of that
0:25 so what you're saying is her mediblaster, it fires in bursts, and if she shoots ya, it's gonna hurt
*monkey noises*
✋🗿🤚 kino
It's gonna tickle
I love when the enemy team has a Juno because she is very easy to kill, her healing is underwhelming and her speed boost is useless when from up close
no actually I think her healing is ok.
Ur gold if she is easy to kill 💀
Nah you're just playing against people bad at juno, not accurate just like every single hero release
@@IgorJCorrea nah bro when venture and ramattra came out they were very good, unlike LifeWeaver which is very bad to this day
A good juno with a rein or ram goes crazy with speed boost
This explains why my games have felt so lackluster the juno spam is rough, not much healing or dps just kinda there doing nothing.
My juno teammates are playing 'walking back from spawn simulator'
Me over here popping off with her, please buff her she's broken like Ana back when she released y'all just don't know how to play her yet
Definitely not broken she feels non existent at high rank @@renjia3504
@@renjia3504 If you can actually aim good her speed boost is really good in duelsm
@@renjia3504 Exactly!!! Literally no one is using her properly, I once put in 11k damage and 16k heals in a single match, nearly top fragging on my team and was top support in the game, she can easily sway the turns of a match if you play her right. I love giving my tank the speed ring so they can easily dive or escape. Rein/Junker are nearly unkillable with a good Juno
This aged like milk
If they gave her the ability to headshot she'd be able to hold her own against most flankers and angles. That would allow her to fill the harder maps for lucio by basically being a ranged more healing centeic version of him.
I don’t know why her movement is so clunky and now the fire rate? Really?
just remove her heal fall off and she be good
@@TheLastEgg08 Her movement feels so bad, mainly her hover ability. Having no vertical mobility in a game where headshots are a thing is a death sentence
Then the other issue comes up where how do you help your other support which imo missiles helps a lot. Shoot a burst of your gun to heal, missiles, then continue healing and you probably keep them alive as long as the dive isn't too big.
@@organa1626 She’s not a high mobility hero at all, she’s so slow. I can do what she does in one Moira fade and I’d have much better results, poor Juno.
When she was first accessible for public on that free weekend i thought she wasn't that good like people were hyping it up
At least she isn't broken or useless
She is just mid
Not sure why people thought she was good last month, she was already pretty bad and then they nerfed her before release
That's why most people said she's Balanced
yeah thank god she's balanced, it means the dev team finally did their job right for once.
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Saladright? She was perfect during the tests. Many giving props to Blizzard. I was scared she would get buffed because she wasn't as powerful as Baptiste or Kiriko... So I was very surprised to read she was nerfed.
@@Maury_Productions There only reason given for her nerf is that she was outputting on average too much healing. She would have like 20k healing regularly even in low ranks. So yeah, seems like some of fundamental misunderstanding on Blizzards part on what to do with the character.
She needs to compete with Lucio as a main support. Give her headshots, make her flying less rigid, and turn her missile ability into a ana biotic grenade style ability, but of course lessen the heals it gives a little bit. I think having the ability to dispatch enemies quickly and in a rewarding fashion (headshots) creates a better environment for her to act as a main support and the biotic grenade passive she should get on her missiles will make that ability a central focus point of a her kit.
An idea I had for her missiles (that might be dogshit, admittedly) was to get rid of the lock-on system it has now. Make the ability so it shoots homing missiles in a range around her character and if she holds the button down it increases the range (with the tradeoff of the ability now having a cast time). It incentivizes her to play in her team (which is ideal for if we're trying to make her competitive with Lucio in brawl) and also gives her some nice burst healing/damage while maintaining the longer range poke damage it can do
@@organa1626 I don't think that's a dogshit idea at all. In fact, I think it's a really good suggestion should Juno need a rework of some kind. I had a thought on the rework of her missiles. To help sell the increase of range, maybe Juno could rise in the air as it charges, giving the ability more of a risk vs reward exchange if you want to get more value from it. Since she has vertical mobility already, it might not be too implausible and may even give her another niche form of repositioning mobility
@@organa1626 tbf that's a really good suggestion but I still wanna see homing missiles that grant healing buffs and reduce enemy dmg.
@@organa1626I think they should be better at going through walls, too. So many of my torpedos get caught on walls.
This aged poorly
I think a quick fix to help her out and make her feel better to play would probably be to allow her to continue shooting while charging the pulsar torpedoes. She could just hold down right click to start and release them instead. It would keep uptime on her damage and healing output and the only real issue I see with this is what new button to press to cancel it. (Maybe just let it time out to cancel it, idk) I think this would be a great help for her though.
I feel like her torpedos shouldn’t stop her from using her primary fire while they’re locking on, and that they are the key to making her more viable too by some buffs to their cooldown and/or output.
I feel that (at the moment) the general consensus on Juno is very positive because she is new. Of course she is fun, she is new. This is pretty common, even Mauga's release came with huge support and optimism from (especially) the casual playerbase. It takes times to begin to see flaws and for frustration to build, so as with all heroes, it's likely Juno will receive more criticism as time goes on.
Now, as I state at the end of this video, I could be COMPLETELY wrong. I am working off of a hypothesis that I have built using my experience in the professional scene. There will probably be some wrong and some right in this video, and with time we will see the direction Juno moves in. This video isn't meant to be an Overwatch Doomer video, honestly this patch was pretty nice, I just want to see Juno become a very useful and dynamic character. I'd love for us to finally have a Lucio alternative, and Juno has some traits that are very good and can be built upon. I hope to see her gain viability in the future.
I don't really get why you wanted to make the video? As you said it's too early to make actual conclusions and your analysis is only hypothetical.
I think most of your critique was spot on. Juno will probably still have play of people that play her in ranked but will fall off in the pro scene due to not having the crazy levels of value that some of the other busted support kits can offer. Like hitting Ana grenade by itself has more value that Juno's entire kit lmao
Because I have enough experience to make educated opinions about a new release. I made this video for the same reason scientists make Hypothesis...so that I can set a basis for expectation and we can observe if the reality is different from what was expected.
Honestly with Juno, it's pretty easy to see that she is bad and why she is bad. So I have a good amount of confidence in this video and the ideas that I present.
@@csd1597 wait till bro realizes science starts with hypotheses
@@solarvoid7853 Can you not read?
"she isn't very mobile." THANK YOU! I've been saying this and people are consistently calling her "hyper mobile." Hey, if you want to run 100% away from the fight, sure she can cover a lot of ground (but not as well as Lucio.) But that is NOT what you want to do to win fights. She needs to be able to be mobile IN the fight and she will quickly expend her cooldowns and be an easy kill. Even when she has her mobility up, it places her on a single flight path because she can't ascend or easily descend, and that makes her easy to hit. If the enemy are harassing her she can't fight back, so she is using all her time and movement to survive, during which she isn't healing much and she's using her only utility selfishly instead of enabling her team. Despite most of her kit being movement based, she's actually NOT as slippery as a Lucio or Mercy, or probably even a Moira (who can self heal AND does very well in duel against flankers.) Her torpedos are so slow to both lock and on travel they are a liability to use when you'd WANT to use them as a burst team heal, and using them as a threat to the enemy is a joke because it is trivial to peek in and out of cover denying her a lock on, or to just duck behind cover as soon as she launches the torpedos. Give players even more time to learn to do it and it's going to be rare that torpedos get much value at all against the enemy.
Also as far as giving her a boop, I'd suggest they add it to the hyper ring which feels like an ability that is BEGGING for something more to it to make it feel like it isn't just a worse alternative to Lucio speed. I think hyper ring should do what it does now, but ALSO boop away any enemy that tries to pass through it (or get too close), up to a maximum of once against each enemy. That would give her some self peel while she makes distance, something she desperately needs given her lack of self heal, AND give her a way to peel for a team mate while giving them a chance to make distance. The only down side is then she's even more so a weird alternate flavored Lucio.
Also, I think you COULD buff torpedos even though they are an easy lock on, because there are SO many things already working against them. They have an obvious sound cue to the enemy that a lock on is being attempted, they can peek cover in and out to avoid lock on, AND if they don't and a torpedo is launched they can STILL use a movement skill to evade them and get behind cover. Hell people often accidentally evade them ALL the time just by naturally playing cover. That's a LOT of counter play for an ability that only does 80 damage. There's plenty of abilities in the game that do as much or more damage with NO warning or easy counter play (including you know, instant death via sniper...) She isn't really rewarded for all the aim effort needed with her weapon, may as well make her lock on ability less ass. Also, she can't head shot. Her damage is low with no surprise burst. Giving her more reliable torpedos isn't going to turn her into an assassin, but giving torpedos a much faster lock on *might* allow her to defend herself more often.
I main Moira and played Juno a lot - Moira is absolutely more slippery than Juno because Fade lets y ou cover a lot of ground, get a high jump, and the enemy can't see where you went. Juno is awful in comparison for getting away - she isn't escaping a Tracer or a Sombra or a Reaper or a Genji. Maaaaybe she escapes Cassidy, but otherwise she's not successfully running away from most flankers
btw for juno ring, I have to tell that the projectile also applies speed boost, so you can shoot it through teammates to get a speed boost and then walk through the ring again to refresh it, extending the speed boost!
I think Juno’s niche is they’re trying to put her in a similar spot as Mercy. A safe feeling support that has broad appeal, and they can also make her another poster child for Overwatch. She makes you feel like you’re doing stuff and in a casual setting doesn’t feel sucky to play in the same way an Ana or Zen might get their teeth kicked in by a Tracer or Winston.
Yeah, but Mercy (on paper) is pretty simple. Heal/boost/rez. She lives and dies by numbers I think. Juno has dmg/heal/mobility/speed, and while she's fun, her impact is tricky to put on a board.
@@MasterMemo not even just on paper, mercy is legit just simple
@@calus_bath_water legit just run around while sometimes pressing shift and crouch or space bar depending on what you're doing. mercy mains stay coping.
@@xuan3236 sounds like they're the ones living rent free in your head
As somebody who used to be a mercy otp I can't lie if you are unfortunate enough to start the game playing mercy and nobody else, you are learning an entirely different game from anybody else. She is rather simple. Anything you struggle with will be something usually unencountered by other players
I'm a low GM Kiriko/Ana player, and am pretty decent on all the other supports. I have an account in high bronze that I decided to use to one trick Juno on when the new season started. My winrate by the end of my placements was *50%*. It's since gone up (~80% or so at the moment) but the fact that it was that low to begin with is insane. Some things that I've learned over the last 30-or-so matches are:
- If my teammate is in a fight dying, I cannot save them like I could on Ana or Kiriko.
- If I get attacked by a flanker, I am dead.
- My healing stats will be about 2/3 of what they are on ana.
- I will not be getting any kills, unlike on Kiriko.
- The torpedoes have a charge-up time and take a long time to reach their target. Where nade, nano, sleep, life grip, or suzu could save someone that's under attack and in critical condition, if you're playing Juno then *they will die.*
- Her ultimate takes WAY too long to build for what it is.
- When she's damage boosted is probably the only time that her gun feels like it does anything.
Why can't she headshot? Why does she have 225 hp? (she has movement abilities sure, but they're not the kind of movement abilities that are going to get you away from a flanker like tracer, sombra, monkey, doomfist, ball, genji, etc. etc.) Why does her blaster do such little damage? Why does her blaster do such little healing? Why do her torpedoes move so slow? (half the time they collide with a wall instead of hitting my teammate)
I purposefully kept myself from reading anything or seeing anything about Juno prior to her release, and honestly the best thing that I can say about her is that she's not annoying to play against. Which is honestly more than half the cast can say. I feel like she just has NO burst impact potential as-is.
I find her fun. But the reason why I like her is the same reason why I liked playing sombra during OW1, or why I liked playing Ana when she wasn't meta: she sucks, and getting good at a weak hero is fun in my opinion.
Also I don't even really care all that much about cosmetics but seriously? She launched with basically nothing!
Delete that Bronze account, Smurf
@@Bluemansonic =UwU=
dont delete it if bronze players wanna climb make them git gud
@@SylviaRozemyne lmao yeah why not match bronze players against gm players in a ranked environment seems fair
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l i mean.. a lot of these bronze players swear they belong in higher ranks. but anytime someone from a higher rank smurfs they cry and complain.
Winston mains eating good this season with this completely helpless support that's in every single game. 😂
She’s not designed bad or a failure of design, she’s a fair and balanced character in a game with Mauga overdrive out healing and window amped bastion turret. Her kit is fine and doesn’t play the game for you, she’s better designed than life weaver will ever be and doesn’t have annoying immortality abilities like bap or kiri.
You know, a character that's "balanced" in game where almost everyone is powerful and does alot of things, is a weak character. A character that has no Impact in anything is not a balanced character either
Did you not watch the video? No, her kit is not fine, she has the exact same problems as Life Weaver and will continue to experience the same trends as him until she gets changed. The character has almost no identity, she lacks any strengths and weaknesses and has no consistent place in the game unless her numbers are ungodly high in every way.
@@blazefactor6849 i think he watched the video and just disagrees. like the guy said in the video this is all just hypothesis. calm down
Yeah and now she is the best support in the game, same shit with kiriko where these "expert" streamers and top 50 players were asking to swap her in games saying that she was ass.
I’m Plat-level and played my first three games of this season last night. I was support, always alongside a Juno. I went 2-1, and the scoreboard was horrifying. Each Juno I played with put up a Mercy-like K/D with about 30 percent of her healing. Juno offers little utility, laughably low healing and her ult is a non-factor.
I’m not saying my experience represents the whole, but so far, my feelings about her line up with Coach’s. I can’t think of a comp in which she would be an ideal pick. I wouldn’t even call her niche.
I actually have like a 58% winrate only playing as her. About 60 games of ranked on her right now. The biggest factor is being able to aim. If you miss even a few of the pellets whoever your healing is just going to die. 12 pellets per burst is a lot. And being able to hit all 12 is gonna feel hard for most. I call them pellets because she has a nerf gun. It's also why her damage feels bad. If you don't land the whole burst good luck ever getting a kill. Bap burst is much more managable. Juno for sure will be more rewarding the better your tracking skills are. I think it'll take time for people to appreciate what her gameplay offers. She definitely needs some help though. But I really enjoy her! Even if she feels a bit weak. If they just made her smg full auto or make the bursts much faster she'll actually feel a lot better I bet. She doesn't even need headshot dmg just let her shoot faster. That'll bring her in line with the other supports.
@@Darkstar2425 These are very good points. I was just sharing my very early, very limited experience playing as her teammate. She does seem underpowered but I think implementing your faster burst suggestion would make a huge difference.
Btw, I’m glad you’re having fun with her and winning at a nice clip! That’s awesome.
@@Darkstar2425 Juno basically demands the aiming skill of a zen orb valley all the time while not actually providing a lot more than he does. At this point she should be able to hs cuz it's already a skill demanding weapon to use, may as well up the rewards.
There's literally no flex support that enables rush. Adding this character to my lineup has increased my win percent and average rank by a considerable amount. She's insane with Rein, DVA, Ram, Orisa. Her main weaknesses can all be fixed with a simple change which is letting her shoot while charging torpedoes to have better duel potential and feel less clunky
There absolutely is a flex support that enables rush, there are multiple. Baptiste and Moira are both excellent at enabling the brawlier styles of composition alongside Lucio. Including both Lucio and Juno is largely redundant, and just leaves you with a lack of real aggressive pace or defensive backbone.
Juno probably works fine at your level, but she's not well-built for the game around her. She's a generic support with no serious strengths or weaknesses, and as such she doesn't really fit anywhere.
@blazefactor6849 I'm M1 and I don't play Lucio nor do I have a Lucio on my team every game and I personally find speed to be better for me more than anything bap or Moira has
Team 4 buffing Kiriko because her performance is low compared to high pick rate just shows terrible balancing guidelines, there needs to be a drastic shift in mindset and reasoning/update frequency if Overwatch is to hit its stride again
let bro never cook again
Life Weaver shouldn’t be compared to Juno. He has a niche that works for him. He can save his allies and deny the enemy kills with all of his abilities. All Juno does is float around and heal/do damage.
Exactly!!
A niche exists within the context of a metagame. Lifeweaver doesn't have a niche because he doesn't actually fulfill the roles required of him to work in any composition.
Let's look at Brig Ana dive as an example of just why LW doesn't work. Brig's primary role in this composition is to act as Ana's bodyguard, peeling for her against major threats and supplementing her output. This is a role defined by peel, which in theory is something Lifeweaver should be good at, except substituting him in reveals that he's actually nowhere near as good of a peel support as he appears to be. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver can't be a threat when he's peeling for his teammates due to healing and damage being separate weapons. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver's peeling options are on long, easily-baitable cooldowns that leave his teammates open for extended periods of time. Unlike Brig, Lifeweaver isn't tanky and has poor mobility with a big hitbox, meaning he's often just as viable of a dive target as Ana is.
Saying that Lifeweaver has a niche because he can save allies completely ignores that the niche of peel support encompasses more than just helping them avoid damage once. His kit is all fluff, no function.
It's not that Juno is poorly designed.
It's that she persists among other poorly designed overturned characters in a poorly designed/balanced game.
So something good is bound to stick out like a sore thumb
This was my take away for the vid too. A game where only 2 supports are considered mandatory and everyone else is considered flex is the consequence of a game that is incorrectly designed at it's core.
brig and lucio are very well designed (brig not initially but they eventually properly carved out what she should be) they just have niches that are really valuable that blizzard havent bothered to contest, you want your supports to have some form of distinct value If they’re just heal bots like juno then they’ll compete with moira and then ur doomed to have a really low impact stat ladder that’s ppl bad at the game think is providing much more than they actually are
This video has aged horribly
why
@@cuckasmatheus Juno is being played in the pro scene just fine. Sooner or later, people will start calling for Juno nerfs.
And only in 2 weeks. These are the kind of people who cry in forums. BLIZZ NERF THIS, BUFF THAT.... without even letting things set up for some time.
I have to say. Juno ult always feels very underwhelming 😢. I also don't like her hover ability. She should just be able to fly normally like pharah
Mo
No
@@huniverso Mo
Watching these videos saying she’s bad and then see her slowly become meta is so funny 😂
Why would you make her movement not retain momentum??
The entire reason the mobility heroes in game are fun is because they carry momentum while moving. The fact Junos movement has no "glide" to it feels extremely disappointing
5:06 THANK YOU. I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT I HATE THIS ULTIMATE AND THAT IT ISN'T THAT GOOD. BUT EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THAT HER ULTIMATE IS OVERPOWERED/GOOD. Mega hot take, I think her ultimate will be best if its stationary with a bigger radius. Idfk I just don't like how it moves forward.
i agree with your points, i think blizzard was trying to make a flex support version of lucio, considering how hard it is to mark flankers with her
I'm in the same boat, but I'm thinking she could be better against flyers than lucio. Though it might not be true in actuality.
@@CuimeraEmaritiJuno's not the greatest but she's not bad
2:44
> was designed to counter dive
>eventually became part of what it was designed to destroy
This was a well put together video, Coach. I really enjoyed watching it! Concerning the “Fixing Juno?” Section, I feel like one potential fix would be buffing her pulsar torpedoes: Make them work more like Cassidy’s ult in that the fewer the targets, the faster it locks on (rather than based on distance), and it should also have a knockback effect that scales based on distance (i.e. really close enemies get a significant knockback and far away enemies get barely any at all). I think this would boost her utility tremendously.
Concerning her ult, I think it should work like Ana’s ult-overcharge in that you can attach it to a character and it follows that character around. That’d allow for some really unique teamplay!
What if they gave her pulsar torpedoes a knock back effect against enemies, and allowed her to move vertically with glide boost. They could also give her a passive which heals her overtime while she is airborne to increase her survivability and reduce 25 shield. Her ult can be similar to Orisa’s old ult, in which she will place a turret that will damage boost instead of having a moving beam.
The Super Metroid ost caught me off guard, excelent music choice there especially considering Juno story
Here's an insane option that would give juno a niche but incredibly powerful ability, maybe on her ultimate, maybe on her gate: 5 seconds of anti-grav. Everyone in the gate or the ult or whatever gets moon jumps or maybe even flight. The vertical mobility on offer plus the speed would make her insane on maps like gibraltar for big brawl or dive pushes with characters that normally struggle with verticality like Rein, Ana, Bastion, Mei. Imagine the crazy plays that could occur as the Sigma on high ground watches the Rein fly over him to plunder his backline with a flying bastion in a dive comp. The carnage alone would make it worth it for one patch before it got nerfed to the ground. Or even with people like Winton. He jumps up to you regularly, you run away with your escape and then he uses his actual leap. The chase potential would be magical.
An ultimate that give moon grav or flight to your team and also heals and boosts would be an incrdible usefull ult, I can see it
The ult line wouldn't need to be changed either. "Welcome to orbit!" would fit nicely with an anti-grav ability.
this is utility i'd like to see
So I watched this video when It 1st came out and thought "this guy doesn't know what he is talking about" and anyway here we are a month later
Don’t get why this video was made I thought she always felt great but now here she is at the top of the meta disproving this whole video anyways. Am I missing something? Because everyone in the comments is agreeing on Juno being designed bad but this is the only video I’ve ever seen NOT praising juno as a character
Watch the coach’s latest video on Juno and the pinned comment on this video lol. This is a prime example on why you shouldn’t make early assumptions and make quick conclusions about new heroes especially in a game like ow2.
I feel really validated hearing your critiques. I remember playing her in her test last month on stream and everyone pretty much saying I didn't know what I was saying and that she wasn't as bad as I thought, i just needed to play her more blah blah blah. Frankly it was hella exhausting. Like I know I'm not a pro, but I've pretty much only played support and all the signs were there, her kit felt incomplete and disjointed off the bat and I was right in thinking none of it would be fixed before hand. Her numbers felt inflated because they were overall so low that it took MORE to be seemingly effective. And a lot of her kit just felt clunky. She doesn't offer a strong enough utility to beat any of the other supports nor does she do enough damage (no headshots/damage fall off) or healing, and her "flight" feels really just weird without free verticality. Like she's...okay I guess but definitely one of the worse releases in a while (on a personal note I feel like as a "martian" her concept is just kind of poorly executed. I wish she had gravity control or something to make it more unique, they hyped her up so much and then she came out really generic to me. If her hyper ring had a slow effect for enemies it'd be infinitely more useful for instance at least to me. It's a weird ability because it doesn't really...do anything for most of the game for your allies after you get to the point. The added move speed for Juno is nice but the ring being a sonic ring to me just feels odd. and the ult not being placed in any really conceivable way hurts. I still don't get how it chooses where it goes and its speed is so slow that if you WANT to go in with it it just doesn't really work, unless Juno like flanks and manages to place it behind them? and then the team pushes in with it idk. its awkward)
9:01 ma boy getting strays
"Brigette is mostly used on dive comps"
Ah. I see she has become the very thing she was originally sent out to destroy.
3:42 wow finally someone points out that the devs have no idea how their game is played after almost 10 years of it being the dominant hero shooter on the market
good breakdown and love the explanation you give on how high level players use each character. Love the videos
She's design for success in r34
good video. i was having similar thoughts on juno, good to see a reputable source back up some of my own and other t500 players thoughts.
Juno is kinda like Moira where she just gets used to far healing stats
Hmm... there are a few concerns I have had about Juno. For one, her torpedoes may be an incredibly wide area attack, more than almost any non-ultimate in the game, but it removes her ability to do anything else until she fires them. It's hard to use them to try and save an ally who is low on HP given the lock on time and it feels underwhelming unless you can get a good number of targets, which takes time and allows enemies to find cover. Plus all that extra damage is spread out, which can add pressure to eliminate a low enemy while the supports are busy healing someone else, but if no one get's eliminated, then there is a good chance that the more forgiving healing in the game will keep them safe and render the damage (mostly) moot. I almost would want to make it so she can lock on the torpedos while still having her blaster out, like how DVa can use her missiles and either matrix or her cannons. That and/or have lock ons to allies be instant, so she can try to burst heal a group at a moment's notice like Bap or Lucio. The torpedoes are fired hands free so I don't see any issue with still operating the mediblaster. It should be to aid in her healing/damage numbers in a match, not make them worse.
The ult is also a bit awkward, and I would like it if she could designate a target for the beam to travel to and then stay at for the rest of it's duration for more control of where and how to use it, and maybe have some damage over time to enemies in it's AOE, not much, but enough to pressure enemies to not stay in it if they can help it and secure space, and it would block any passive self healing. Maybe 20 DPS at the most (it lasts 10 seconds).
So many BS in 13 minutes I love it lmao 🤣
Keep up the amazing content girl! I love your stuff so much it helps a lot with understanding and learning OW
This video is a design fail, here why 😮
Because it was made the same day the character came out 😭
I really like the idea of her ult being focused on her. I feel it would go a long way in making it feel more usable/consistently viable. Another idea that might work is being able to stop/reverse the momentum of the ult somehow. Maybe by pressing the ult button again? I think it'd help prevent the situation of trying to use it, but it ending up in a position you do not wanna fight in
The only aspect of Juno that I find unsatisfactory is the missile lock-on time.
take a shot Everytime he says the entire word "compositions"
08:20 She can't even be played with lucio like this, because the ring speed boost doesn't stack well with lucio's boost, because the game has a Speed Boost Cap which is just barely above Lucio's AMP
You have a bit of a misunderstanding in regards to how that composition would work. You are correct, stacking Lucio AMP and Juno speed would be nonsensical, so obviously teams won't be doing that. Instead, most teams attempting the composition start with Juno ring and keep going with Lucio speed after the ring ends. Of course, such a composition still lacks sustain and will not last very long.
Great video! Love getting the prospective from people that know what they’re doing.
Me personally? I just need no damage or healing falloff and for the pulse bubbles to push enemies backwards. Her ult is ok, but having it centered around her instead of moving on its own would be freaking amazing!
aged nicely hahahahh
Oh she bad alright
meanwhile juno is getting plenty of play in pro play
i gotta be honest, juno may not be the best support but the most fun by far
Juno is definitely fun but the MOST fun support? There's a reason why Ana and Lucio have had big cult followings for years now.
@@Gabe7GalYou have to be a specific person to enjoy those characters, no new player is going to pick up Ana and have a blast.
eh for me bap, ana, and lucio are still way more fun, juno just has no impact unless youre playing metal ranks
@@sugarcombfilms3467 you never specified new players. The point is that heroes like Ana are the most fun in the long term
@@Gabe7Gal I wasn't saying how fun a character is depends on how new players like them, I'm saying that the fact she's no fun at all for new players is very emblematic that she's not an inherently fun character. I would say she isn't particularly more fun than a hero like Soldier 76 since their movement is minimal and their main form of interacting with the game is basic hitscan guns. Compare that to Doomfist, or Reinhardt, or Tracer.
Thanks for the video I was trying to put my finger on what she needs to compete with Lucio and you laid it out very simply!
I'm not gonna lie, while I agree making Juno a viable Lucio alternative is the ideal, I think specifically for rush that isn't really possible without a gigantic rework.
The benefits she boasts over Lucio are mostly range and high ground access - 2 things rush really does not care about.
Meanwhile it costs you speed uptime and power, as well dps potential - things you REALLY care about in Rush.
I think the only niche that can work out for Juno realistically is Ana Juno dive.
I feel like that's the most realistic path forward, since Dive is the only comp I can think of that cares about Speed, Range, and having high ground (at least for the backline) all at once.
Obviously right now it doesn't work because of the falloff, as well as Juno's inability to keep her Ana up.
Either Juno is in the fight with her team, and leaving Ana to the Sharks (not to mention, leaving herself open) - or she's in the backline where she should be, but unable to speed her team, or provide substantial healing from such a distance.
So here's sorta my minimum possible effort mini-rework:
- Damage and Healing Falloff removed
- Juno can now headshot (but has 1.5x Damage Multiplier instead of 2x)
- Hyper Ring Cooldown reduced to 12s
- Hyper Ring now travels an infinite distance, deploying either on contact with a surface, or by pressing the ability button again to deploy it mid-air.
---
I think that makes her a viable pick to pair with Ana in Dive, but even still, there's issues.
The Ult still makes very little sense for a Dive team, and is very easily countered.
So here's some further changes I'd like, but I realise would be more work.
- Orbital Ray is now targeted, the beam begins from the position you are looking at when the ultimate is activated
- Orbital Ray now deals 60dmg/s to enemies inside the Ultimate (not much, about moira's dps, just enough to make it a threat worth considering)
- Orbital Ray AoE Size increased by 50%
- Orbital Ray now also grants +20% Speed
- Orbital Ray travel speed increased from 2.25m/s to 5m/s
The increased travel speed is a nerf, but should hopefully be offset by the increased size, and is done because part of the reason this ult makes no sense is because it kinda demands your whole team clump in one tiny spot... Which would work in Rush, but we already explained she isn't good at that, and in Dive people don't group up in a death ball like that because you need to take multiple angles. The movement doesn't necessarily _fix_ that, but it does make it more feasible to maybe catch 2 people on one side of the map with the start of the ult, and maybe make its way over to the other angle you're trying to pressure by the end.
Another funny alternative would be to keep the small and slow beam but remove all the heal and damage boost, and instead make it slow enemies - though that's getting a bit more into the territory of just making a new ultimate.
The other issue of course, is peeling for backline.
The hope would be that speed would be enough, and that cooldown reductions on Hyper Ring could do the job, but of course, that seems a little unlikely to pan out.
Assuming it doesn't, Juno would kinda just need a slow or knockback, but I can't think of any easy way to introduce it to her kit.
You could put a slow on Pulsar Torpedos, but I think the lock-on time would be too long to bail out your Ana.
You could give her Zen's Snap Kick but... _i do not think that would be appreciated in the long run..._ 0 cd knockbacks are definitely kinda sus.
So, I'm not sure if this would do the trick, but I have one last idea...
- Hyper Ring also grants a +100% boost to jump height
This could also potentially apply to Orbital Ray.
That might help Ana create distance and escape dives more effectively without needing a CC to protect her, but since it's an effect we've yet to see in the game, it's hard to say.
That's my best effort at fixing Juno currently.
idk how balanced that all wpuld be but it sure sounds fun
This video gonna age like cheap milk
i mean it already has, juno IS ALREADY being played in pro play quite often.... shes completely viable.
I feel like the new supports for overwatch 2 (aside from Kiriko) are all designed for a casual player base. Lifeweaver illari and Juno just aren’t really designed to compete in pro play, but to have a brain dead playstyle that’s easy to pick up as a new player. You would have to make the numbers way higher but then casual play is broken so there’s nothing they could do besides rework them.
But Illari is played in pro play?
Illari is definitely designed for ALL play, it's almost impossible to go wrong while playing her, as long as you can place Pylon in a decent spot where the enemy team cannot interact with it, you've got free value with a now unpushable spotl
@@Lusmun_kolo yes but often only bc shes overtuned, and not often at all. She functions just as a better/ another dps at holding long angles with her near invincible pylon angles. Other than that she offers nothing. Shes not really designed for pro play and if she does see play, its mostly bc the balance is once again fcked up
@@randomdude9549wdym? illari is not good unless she is?
@@yes3330 when her stats are overtuned
Meta-oriented design aside, I just wish she had more of an identity in her kit connected to her intended playstyle and/or her personality. With JQ she has her knife, her ult, shout, and her axe with it's reset reinforcing her all-in brawler character in both aspects. Reinhardt has a less complicated kit but still reflects his history and gameplay, Reaper's kit lends itself to effective flanking and 'returning to the shadows' when necessary, and so on.
With Juno, she's bounces and floats around because... she's bubbly? I mean I guess. The rest of the kit is visual identity, spectacle for the most part, because there's no real playstyle synergy, she's just... there.
I feel like she's ok its just that everyone else (support heroes) is crazy powerful
I hear this one a lot, and I'm going to be real with you....She just has a weak kit. Supports are not overtuned, they are fine.
@@Coach_Ocie idk I disagree some supports have everything all In one place and have the best abilities out of the roster
The most common backlines
Bap+Lucio
Kiri+Lucio
Ana+Brig
Ana+Lucio
Bap+Brig
Bap+Illari
Ana+Illari
Bap+Zen
Moira+Lucio
All of these Supports successfully fill a niche and do SOMETHING that provides value, they have something that they can do very very well. At the moment, the only weak supports are LIfeweaver, Mercy, and Juno. The issues with the three all have to do with kit design flaws. No, the other Supports are not "overpowered" they are just good at something, they are decent.
@@Coach_Ociehonesty I would love to see a video of you explaining why
@@ButterBeanFryExplaining why what?
Would love to see...
1. Orbital Ring be re-selectable after activation to move it to a target position;
2. Hyperring use energy instead of a fixed CD, with cost increased after use (decreasing linearly back to normal over its cooldown as to be sustainable on CD but usable consecutively at a penalty); and
3. Pulsar Torpedoes are instantly usable and may strike the same target if there are fewer than 4 to hit, though damage of additional hits to the same target are increasingly halved (80|40|20|10 for 80|120|140|150 damage total) and the projectile size of pulsar torpedoes are now at the minimum projectile size. While this may simply pass around the knees and shoulders of a Tracer from point-blank range, one should be able to land one half or the other against small targets and point-blank burst larger targets for self-defense.
Juno is actually super balanced, power creep has just ruined every other hero so she seems bad
what? that means juno should keep up with the power creep and be as strong as the other characters. if a hero is weak in a game with strong heroes that doesnt make her balanced, that makes her underpowered.
@@inbeing3464no, that means the overpowered heroes should be slightly brought down to be more balanced, or else you have some heroes that are constantly meta and some that never are
Ya for Exemplar sombra... her dmg output is insane and the Mobility
Hard to kill as a juno
@@inbeing3464 that's litterally how you make power creep worse
@@bfsobnfsThats illogical. Why would they bring down EVERYONE else for the sake of Juno? It's way easier to just make Juno stronger and have some impact
As you said in prior comments, she does lack a place at the moment but as a character I feel like she has good possibilities in terms of ability reworks/tuning
wtf people still play this game, I never knew people still played overwatch 0.5, my fav was overwatch 1 when it came out long long ago in the distant past
I got an idea with her turrets. The turrets could follow teammates[by pressing the ability on a teammate nearest turret will go to them] similar to zen but also deal damage. This could help protect the backline and backup flankers such as Genji. The turrets should be destructible so as not to make it overpowered and its hp would be 100% shield so that in the case of it surviving the ambush, it could repair itself. On destruction, the turret will take x amount of seconds to rebuild itself and be resent again similar to sym turrets.
Next up, Her ult could enhance the Turrets so that it does dmg boost, heal and speedboost at the cost of direct damage. Also, the amount of ult charge needed should be less, as to make it an engage or stabilize ultimate.
For Blasters, it would be cool that in the case Juno has some turrets left,the turrets shoot with the blasters. This will require Juno to choose between supporting a teammate and dealing damage. Also, the turrets get recalled with reload as she gets unlimited ammo.
For her movement, it would be cool to be able to dash with her flight. this will also make her harder to hit as it can be pressed whenever and if it isn't enough maybe a millisecond short invincibility frame for avoiding hitscan shoots would help with her vulnerability.
When it comes for her speedboost ability,maybe instead of creating a huge wall,juno could individually apply it to a teammate or an area. This would be beneficial with keeping immobile teammates alive,and with her ult giving speedboost to pretty much the whole team,changing this wouldn't hurt her at all.
With this rework,I believe she could fit very well in the main support category,as she would be really good with supporting teammates but also being able to deal dmg when it is needed.
Ps. She gets more turret slots in her ultimate so to give one to each teammate, a recall range could be implemented in the ult as to stop long-distance attacks as that would be op but without the ultimate, An unlimited range will help with her not being compatible with dives.
Skill issue
I wasn't sure why she felt so awkwardly bad despite seemingly good stats, this pretty much explains it perfectly
What you're proposing is gutting her kit and make her more useless in a rework. I've played with her enough to know that her torpedoes are a good utility move.
This is centered around making her useful in comps. While yes torpedoes work well in solo queue what about in OWCS or high ranks? She just is LW 2.0 no point to play her outside of low ranks or just for fun not a hardcore grind or proplay. (I play a lot of juno)
My main issue with Juno is actually her torpedo ability. A lot of times, just shooting primary fire feels better than waiting for the lock-on when you're using it for critical allies. There's been a lot of situations I've had where teammates who actually need the heal, just die before the projectile hits them. It can also be blocked by shields, or end up missing due to travel time (Players walking out of LOS and the projectile hitting a wall instead).
To hit enemies she also needs to expose herself the entire time it takes to lock-on, and she's so squishy that its a big risk. So, you're usually gonna want to use one of her speed abilities during that. There's too many factors on her torpedo ability actually getting value that it just... feels useless a lot of the time, IMO.
Also.. A solely heal/dmg ability is not 'utility.' Speed boost, anti-nade, immort/suzu, etc. - those are utilities.
I don't think you understand what "utility" actually is.
next youre gonna tell me high left click damage is good utility lmao
I understand ur point.
but pls dont take my torpedo's I beg u
I'm actually in love with junos base kit I really love her mobility the speed ring and the torpedos id be super sad if any of them changed, I wouldnt mind the ult changing because man it really is annoying to use although I do like the aesthetic of it the beam is cool.
I wonder if it would be better to give junos ult 30% damage reduction instead of damage boost so its harder to be forced out of the ultimate or maybe just half the healing (50hp/s instead of 100hp/s) (mercy does 65hp/s) and double the area of effect and make it stationary.
Another L for blizzard, cant even design a hero to fail correctly, instead making this hero playable
Ngl I thought Juno absolutely blows and sucks when I first tried her but as my team used her more often she ended up being like, insanely useful. Not sure why people seem to think she’s horrible. Maybe it’s my rank? I float around between gold 1 and plat 5,
lol suuure she is
this video is great! it’s everything i thought about juno when she was fully released. also i love your reimagined version of juno that can rival lucio, the centered ult is genius 😊
i don't like today's hotfix for juno, if I could offer an alternative hotfix without a rework i think she could cook with:
1) 1.5 headshot multiplier (damage only)
self explanatory she needs the ability to duel and not just be scared out of any position
2) speed ring ~15 hps (45 healing over 3 seconds after entering ring) OR give glide boost a ~12 hps (48 healing over 4 seconds)
i think this hero will be ass as long as she doesnt have a self heal, i think giving her a light self heal on her glide boost or a small heal over time on her ring does a lot to make her feel less fragile while not broken sustainwise
3) allow her to shoot her gun while casting missiles
spilo change but it just feels like it'd be nice to experiment with
4) give her 250 hp
like why was this even nerfed there was no way she was overperforming in the beta test and she has no self heal like the other supports that got 225'd??
5) lower missile damage/healing from 85->75
maybe not a necessary change but maybe it compensates a bit for allowing her to shoot while casting and i think the impact of this ability would be much greater considering my proposed sustain changes greatly increases her ability to shoot missiles on an soft-medium off angle and hit a ton of targets
i think this would be a good baseline to then adjust her specifically to what she needs to compete for specific playstyles
i dont think they should give her 250 health back, giving her that heal in speed ring would be enough self heal IMO, she is already pretty hard to hit with a double jumping baby diva sized hitbox. they should be nerfing more heros health pools, i think genji should go to 225 with some added buff like an extra dash at the end of blade or something. in my opinion sojourn should also have 225, her hitbox is simply too small and her movement is very good.
didn't realize until after reading this comment that she's the only supp without self heal (there's also zen but he can do a shit ton of damage)
Reversing the fire rate tweak they did before release but after the trial would help wonders. Allowing for headshots (both damage and healing), even if weaker headshots and not full crits, would be an interesting way to capitalize on the rapid-fire nature of the gun--
It also would be nice to allow firing the gun during torpedos, instead using other keys to fire/cancel (such as pressing the ability key again). This would make it a better tool in 1v1s.
Maybe give it a bit of a knockback directly away from you. Could see that being used in a fun way.
As to the ultimate-- It could be neat if it instead moved towards the nearest ally, which would allow it to sort of trail along wherever it's brought.
Idk, just some random concepts.
it's almost like they just wanted to make a, cute, fun, and unique character and weren't trying to upend the entire meta they've been trying to balance for years for no reason, everyone always complains when the new hero is busted, Ram, Mauga, etc... and now y'all are complaining she's not? make up your minds
This is a competitive game lol
@@eddy_is_a_squidpotatoe471 okay? what does that have to do with what I said? are all the other characters equally viable in comp? Not even close, so what's the problem?
@@canadiangopnik7007 Because releasing a character that's just not good is dumb? This is a Competitive game not some fantasy RPG. You don't release characters and make them average to slightly below average for "funnies" her being "cute" or some stupid stuff doesn't mean she has to be bad.
@@eddy_is_a_squidpotatoe471 considering that every time they release a new character the entire community complains they’re too strong, of course they’d end up toning one down, and instead of being thankful that they’re listening, we’re just flaming them more, because she’s NOT broken, and besides, games are meant to be fun, they released a fun character, what’s the problem?
@@canadiangopnik7007 There's nothing wrong with releasing a new character don't try to put words in my mouth. This is a competitive game, you don't release characters for "fun" them being "cute" doesn't mean they have to be bad. Not a hard concept to grasp.
your theory holds up, I couldn't find any way to make her feel nice to swing fights compared to just playing Ana / Brig. We definitely need a new main support and I hope the devs take a long good look at Lucio again as a reference.
keeping this vid hanging to farm some views is such a red flag, smh
I have no reason to delete this video? It was my honest first impression and was also incorrect. Deleting this video would be dishonest.
@@Coach_Ocie I feel like keeping it (without something more obvious than a pinned comment) is against educating people, since those who wouldn't go to comments section to see what's up may take it as truth from a credible source and even spread it further
Nah not really. I say in this video that my takes on Juno here are opinions and that I could be wrong. I make this very clear at the end of the video as well. This is not an entirely objective piece and it is based on early analysis.
fax
@@Coach_OcieI can respect that
I think her Orbital Ray should also provide you with the speedboost effect that the speed ring provides. This makes it so even if you're forced out of the ult, you gain a speedboost to reposition, Or if you're trying to push forward and the ult is too slow, you can still have a speed effect active while pushing ahead of the beam. I'd say to also let the duration last until the ult ends. If you get it at the start of the ult, you gain the full effect and if you receive it at the end, you get almost nothing. This would incentivize that you play around it during the start and end rather than just touching the ult at the end to gain a speedboost.
I'll basically OTP her anyway, she's all around balanced in an unbalanced game, in my opinion they should get rid of suzu and immo invol, unfortunate that I can't play her in scrims except for trying to touch point for OT 💀
I will say however I think in terms of mobility she's way better than kiriko, because kiriko has to rely on teammates being in safe positions to live which is unreliable. In my experience playing juno she's best to play with monkey, dva and oddly reinhardt. A good combo is to play Bap/Kiriko along with juno to still have that immo utility. As someone who dislikes playing lucio she's a good alternative in my eyes, but that's my casual take.
A band aid fix imo would be letting her crit but not by headshot. Instead when landing all of her shots the last one crits with the damage being damage overtime, like Ana. The trick though would be that the crit damage could stack creating a large amount of pending damage on a player making her poke more threatening.
Also a change to torpedoes would be to make them flares where you shoot them at the map and they would shoot fire upwards like how sym turrets worked in the april fools mode but obviously much bigger. You would shoot a barrage of flare projectiles that follows your crosshair over a couple of seconds.The fire itself would be low damage damage overtime (like soj orb kinda damage) but the value would be being able to use as a 'soft' mei wall where you cordon off larger areas with the damage and the visuals giving juno much more map controls than other supports.