Why do you think the attempt to cancel Christmas in England failed? Let me know below and remember to check out: BUY MY BOOK (Find Your Irish Ancestors Online): amzn.to/3Z2ChnG Website (with 2 FREE DOWNLOADS): www.historycallingofficial.com/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/historycalling Amazon storefront: www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling Instagram: instagram.com/historycalling/
Two words - free will. Attempts to ban things that are popular with large numbers of the population always seem to fail. Prohibition here in the United States is another example.
Christmas is something that instills joy in its celebrants and in the capitalists that cater to them. I'm happy to be among the former. Merry Christmas!
I think it failed because Christmas/Saturnalia/Yule was such a deeply layered festival, getting in touch with a very basic need to celebrate the time of year as a time of hope and joy, related to the return of the light. I have to say I've never really bought into the American emphasis on the early Puritans -- a "stiff-necked people." But then, I'm not a New Englander. However, I have discovered that a few of my French ancestors were Huguenots. I don't think they have the same bad reputation as the English Puritans and Presbyterians though.
I don't buy the Saturnalia story. The early church had a habit of moving into a region, taking their holidays, and making up a story to fit Christianity.
My sister is Jehovah's Witness and this justification sounds a lot like her rationalizations for not celebrating much of anything. One of my sons spent a christmas in England and he said the English do Christmas right. Glad it recovered.
My Aunt is a Jehovah’s Witness… no merry making within 50 miles of her or her house! Lol I still send Christmas cards, she likes getting them lol but you better not invite her for Christmas!
Each to their own, but from my experience with family members and work colleagues over the years, it is one of the most joyless theologies I have ever come across.
@@HistoryCalling Ideally yes. "Tuesdays are canceled, tell all your friends!" Just seemed like the bright spot in a gloomy Monday...Sundays its harder to spread the word.
Note to all politicians: don't mess with Christmas! I agree it is a bit OTT now, but not celebrating at all is pretty depressing. Even if you are not a christian, everyone needs a rest and at the darkest point of the year (northern hemisphere) then it makes sense to just stay at home with your family (if poss), eat, drink and let the brain recover. I intend to stew in my own juice and rest up, open my presents and thank the Lord for what I have. It doesn't need to get more complicated than that, unless you want it to. Merry Christmas HC, I will drink to your health and continued production of excellent videos. Cheers!
Thanks Elisabeth and I agree - no Christmas is a bit depressing if you're used to celebrating it and it does make the dark nights of November and December a bit easier to bear. Merry Christmas to you too 🎄⛄
Glad Christmas became something that folk like to celebrate. I know it’s important to almost everyone. I was a strange and curious child. I told my parents they were confusing me. I asked who should I thank for my presents. Then I told them that there was no Santa Clause. I never received Christmas presents from them and family ever again. Lol. When I became a mother, I put up a Christmas tree and decorated. I told them that their presents came from me and their dad. On Christmas week my daughter and I bake cookies and watch Christmas movies. Mainly Love actually. So I’m grateful Christmas wasn’t cancelled permanently. I cherish my Christmas week with my daughter. Thank you for this video. It’s bringing the Christmas cheer to everyone. Have a lovely weekend.
Letitia, I had a somewhat similar experience the Christmas Eve that I was 5 and still needed someone to take me to the bathroom at night in the dark. My dad was so sleepy in the middle of the night that when I suddenly said, "There isn't really a Santa Claus, is there?" he just said, "No," too sleepy to come up with any fairy tale explanation. But we still celebrated and I knew who to thank after that!
@@annmoore6678 I’m glad you parents gave you gifts. I didn’t get presents as a punishment because I asked too many questions. At least I can celebrate it with my own family. 😊
Oh Leticia, that's so horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you, but I'm glad you've made and continue to make wonderful Christmas memories with your daughter (I love Love Actually too). ⛄
It wasn't just in England. In 1659, the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony banned the public celebrating of Christmas. It was done not only on a theological basis (no mention of celebrating the Nativity in the Bible), but also because of the rowdy behavior associated with the holiday. There was door to door begging and a lot of mischief: vandalism, drunkenness. It was rather like a cross between Halloween and spring break. Stephen Nissenbaum, who wrote a book on the subject of celebrating Christmas, says no prosecutions were ever made under the new law, which was clearly meant to control mayhem rather than to prevent quiet private celebrations. The law was repealed under pressure from Charles II in 1686, but schools were open on the 25th, and churches closed, until well into the 1800s. Christmas wasn't a state holiday until 1856.
THANK YOU so much Terrie for such a generous donation to the channel. I think I'm going to look on SuperThanks donations this month as bonus Christmas presents and they're much appreciated (as always). 🎄⛄
As you were telling the story, the first things that popped into my head were "did they actually stop celebrating?" and "how strictly was the law enforced?" Your answer was pretty much what I suspected. I was not aware of this little snippet of history - thank you for sharing it! I always learn so much from you! Hope you are enjoying your holiday season so far! ❤🎄
Haha, you can't keep a good Christmas celebration down. I was happy when I read that people carried on celebrating as well. No wonder people were happy to be rid of the Puritans and get the monarchy back. Have a lovely Christmas 🎄
Okay, this sent me on a little tangent about the Christmas carol _The Holly and the Ivy,_ but apparently it only dates back to around 1710. I was hoping it had some unexpected rebellious history.
A delightful presentation! You managed to make an early holiday out of this account of the Puritans' unsuccessful effort to make December truly dark and dreary. I suppose the same policies applied to St. Valentine's Day and other Christian holidays that had originated as the old Celtic cross quarter days, but those might not have been as big an issue as Christmas.
I haven't looked up other days specifically, but yes, they did just issue a blanket ban on saints' days, so the others must have been down the drain as well. Such party poopers, as I said in the video :-(
I followed your recommendation to watch your presentation from last year on the origins of Santa Claus. Our local community choir has just performed Benjamin Brittain's "Ceremony of Carols" and especially "St. Nicholas," which musically retells all the legends you shared in the video. It was a great success, especially the revival of the three pickled boys, who won everybody's hearts. Thank you for welcoming in December with these two delightful posts.
That sounds lovely. Yes, the pickled children is an 'interesting' part of that story. It's not something you would immediately associate with Santa Claus, that's for sure :-) I'm glad you enjoyed both the videos.
Love your videos and this one is no disappointment! However, the piano intro is much TOO loud as compared to the rest of the video, so when I turned it up slightly to more easily hear your voice, the piano intro kicked in and startled everyone in the room! Perhaps IT might level off the volumes?
The observation of Christmas was also banned by the Puritans in America, at least in Boston, from 1659 to 1681. The Quakers, who were more numerous in Pennsylvania, didn’t observe Christmas but they also didn’t ban it.
See, I have no problem with that. If they opt/opted not to celebrate it, that's totally fine with me, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on anyone else. I wish other people would learn that lesson too, even in the modern era. Sadly there's always extremists, trying to force everyone else to be like them.
You always do history justice HC, in a word Religion, the Christmas ban failed people still celebrated it but not openly the Puritans tried to impose something they couldn't control, thank you HC as always.
Thanks Simon. Yes, it's never a good idea to try to control other people's religious beliefs. It just never ends well, but yet people still keep trying to do it.
Wow! I wasn't aware of this! I think the failure of cancelling Christmas was that so many people loved the holiday. Those that were in favor of it outnumbered those that were against it.
I'm a Catholic, but not particularly religious. I'd heard of Cromwell's cancellation of Christmas before, but didn't realize how seriously it was enforced. I think if Christmas didn't already exist, we would have to invent it, to stave off the winter doldrums from such long nights, and cold days. If I may suggest an episode - I've long wondered about the holidays mentioned in many English historical stories. Days like Michaelmas, Whitsunday, Lady Day, Shrove Tuesday and Midsummer. What were these days meant to celebrate? Were they Holy days? Fast days? Recognized by the church? Other religions? When did they fall from common usage? Was it a lasting consequence of Cromwell's ban of Christmas?
The Catholic Church still recognizes many feast and Holy Days. Some do tie into pagan celebrations. They are just given a religious meaning for instance Midsummer is John the Baptist’s feast day.
I'm Catholic as well (practicing) The Holy Days of Obligation as they are called in the Catholic church are: January 1st Solemnity of Mary Mother of God 40 days after Easter The Ascension of the Lord August 15th The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary November 1st All Saints Day December 8th The Immaculate Conception December 25th The Nativity All Sundays are holy days of obligation as well
It wasnt just London. My ancestors lived in Canterbury and they were so outraged at the Christmas ban that it sparked the Plum Pudding Riots in 1647 which were an escalation of a brutal football match through the city. The puritans were the very essence of the Fun Police.
I loved that you threw in the tidbit of photographing the holly and ivy in a local cemetery. Nearby Colma, CA is full of cemeteries. Wyatt Earp's ashes can be found there. Perfect video! Rock on, HC!! 👏👏
@@HistoryCalling 😆I once visited a cemetery where my late friend's grave was still unmarked and sought the help of some groundskeepers to locate it. As they were leaving I asked, "Do you guys ever worry about ghosts?" They laughed and replied, "We don't work here at night!"
Oh thank you! I think I was one who suggested the topic. Very well done. The artwork was beautiful too. If I am not mistaken the Puritans who settled in the Northeastern part of the USA, which was then a British colony, also forbade Christmas and other celebrations. How dull it must have been!
My goodness, two videos in one week. Fab! I don't know if you've already gotten your videos written for this month, but I'd love to see a video on the 12 days of Christmas
I'm afraid they are indeed already done up to the middle of January, but that's a great idea for next year :-) Mind you, this video is flopping (and last year's did too), so I'm starting to wonder if Christmas themed videos are actually a bad idea :-(
@@HistoryCalling I thought it was a fascinating video, and awful to imagine being subjected to such a miserable law. I didn't know until now there was a video on the origin of Father Christmas but I'm off to watch now. I hope you will get more views as the month progresses and more of the Christmas Spirit abounds.
17:36 The Scottish Parliament did indeed abolish the celebration of Christmas - it was no great thing. Scottish Christianity originally came via Ireland and was Celtic in outlook ,didn’t make a big thing about the birth of Christ ;plus There was no heartening back to English pagan rituals holly &Ivy /saturnalia etc-or “Romish High-Jinks”But of more importance …it was more pragmatic than that ..people had no money!.Traditionally and by law All monetary debts had to be paid by last day of the Old Year ..Thats when craftsmen paid their apprentices and so on Tradesmen had to be paid ,other outstanding debts had to be settled as well Thats why the pragmatic Scots celebrated New Year- folk had money in their pocket and tradesmen were more than happy to take it .
Whoa! I understand the concept of traditional Christmas being based on pagan celebrations and customs, but had no idea a law had been passed against it. And the relationship between the ban and the monarchy.... incredible. Thanks HC. You're a raisin among the flakes. Lvya much
This was so interesting. I don’t think I knew about all the rigamorole that occurred. I love Christmas. I’m not Catholic, Presbyterian, or such, I just like that most people are a little bit nicer and a little more tolerant. I like to think the Lord likes that, whether it’s his birthday or not. Well done HC. ❤️
Whether religious or not, I think a lot of people would want some kind of festival to celebrate in the depths of winter when there's not much else to be cheerful about. Plus Christmas was just an ingrained habit for a lot of people, and there are always going to be people who just don't want to do what the government says. Put all of that together, and the puritans were fighting an uphill battle. BTW, I had to pause and check the caption at 2:21 because I'm sure one of my grandmothers had a copy of that painting in the hallway when I was a kid, it was labeled as "Pilgrims Going To Church". May have been a different painting with a similar subject matter though.
I think that might be the name of the painting, yes. :-) I agree that we all need something nice and fun to help with the miserable winter. I just wish we could have something else around the middle of February too to get us over that last winter hump.
As to why the effort to suppress Christmas failed? Just look outside! Oregon weather is very like Ireland's. It even snowed for a few hours yesterday. What else can we do when the vegetable garden turns black and dreary, the rain pours down, and we layer on our cable-knit sweaters and heavy socks? Add a little Jameson's to the pumpkin pie filling, light some candles and put on some Christmas music!
You got snow! I'm jealous. We actually get very little of it here (even less with climate change) and it usually arrives in February or March. I can only remember one white Christmas sadly, which was in 2010 I believe when we got a major Arctic blast. ⛄
Samuel Peeps writes about how people punished for celebrating Christmas were marched through the village with a cut off ear just for decorating their home or door with Holly greens, ivy, or bay.
Interesting. Hubby and I don't celebrate Christmas the way most do. We do a scaled down Holiday. We enjoy the visiting of family and friends, but we don't do the tree. I guess I'm somewhat a puritan, and laughed when I realized that I'm related to Isaac Ambrose. I enjoyed your video!
Our Scottish Grandpa (born 1910 Paisley, moved to London in the 30s, then Australia in the 50s}, never celebrated Christmas. No tree, no gifts, no cards, no dinner, no explanation why ?? He become our Master of Ceremony for their neighbourhood New Years Eve party in his senior years, but only followed a fraction of all the rather odd rules of Hogmanay. Or even call it Hogmanay, but looking back, that's what it was. Just wish now I'd asked him more questions as a Wee Laddie 🙂
Haha, you know I don't think I did. I think I just put 'Santa' into Unsplash (or some site like it) and scrolled through the options till I saw something that I thought would fit :-)
As I was watching, I imagines being a shopkeeper being questioned why my store was closed. I'd have a major limp (favoring the left side, I'd have to practice in advance) and would complain of a rheumatism, as that sounds just vague enough to be impacted by weather
Hello again HC. This is Angus MacMillan, I don't know how my name was changed as to the current one but I thought it best to identify myself to you.. GOD BLESS you for a very objective report. I know that in Scotland they do not celebrate Christmas per se, but Celebrate Hogmanay (First Footing and all that) instead. I won't tell you how my Southern Irish mother (God rest her beautiful soul) used to refer to Cromwell, It used to be a great a great source of Mirth.
Hi Angus and thank you for such a lovely comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I have friends who live in Scotland, so I've heard lots of great stories about Hogmanay :-) It sounds like a blast. I can imagine what your Mum thought of Cromwell and she may not have been far wrong. Merry Christmas ⛄🎄
1640's and later~Cromwell was prioritizing his efforts of obliterating/massacring the Irish people. Gladly swinging the sword to leave a bloody trail and put a decent dent into the population. Saddened my heart what happened in Portadown but can't blame the Irish~they were provoked beyond measure.
Can’t watch yet as I’m currently parked up waiting for a school sports team, but while you’re about as it’s a premiere I wanted to say you’re epic and to keep it up! X
@@HistoryCalling one day I’ll work out how to send you voice or video and you can hear that they are very very rowdy. It looks like they’ve won so to celebrate, no doubt my poor coach shall be trashed! I’ll stick your video on while I clean hehr
@@HistoryCalling haha. Unfortunately they also punish the coach for defeat. I can’t moan too loud. The schools in Salisbury so I had a wander in the cathedral. Be rude not to!
Hello history calling . Just found you. Amazing . See you got phd.just subbed. Do you have a name ? Have you wrote any books? Why hide your identity ? Went through all Tudor stuff. Found loads of stuff. Amazing lady. Anyway why not you do Tudor stuff from Ireland ? thank you
Thanks Rob. I just like my privacy. I have indeed written books, journal articles etc. and perhaps at some point if/when I release my name, I'll share their titles with everyone too. I find (having already created a few) that people don't watch Irish history videos much I'm afraid :-(
Thank you. Maybe one day then ! Or you could wear a Tudor mask!. I for one would love to hear about your country in Tudor times. Maybe you could do something with cronwell? .can you recommend any tudor Irish history. Thank you for reply . Take care. Xx
I am really enjoying your channel, thank you. Have you ever considered doing something on William Rufus? Legends like Adam Bell or Herne the Hunter? Just some ideas. Thank you again.
@@HistoryCalling I really enjoyed your historical view of Christmas versus the English Puritans. I have to admit that my mother’s side of the family half were English Puritans and the other half were Cavaliers. My great great and so on William Goff signed the death warrant on Charles I. His brother had become a Roman Priest and went to France during the Puritans reign. Part of my Mom’s family were responsible for canceling Christmas. We’ll just a personal spot of history for you. Thank you again for such a great channel.
I am the archetypal grumpy old git therefore completely agree with the sentiment. It's spiralled into nothing but a commercial circus, with the clowns taking centre stage. 😏 But will see you at the Prem if only for the chats 😄
Half of my family are English and we definitely love Christmas. I always think what happened to Charles I , was a sin. He was a king therefore, he was anointed by God. It’s always the minority causing problems for everyone else
Okay, I never got to watch this last night as the coach was far far worse than I feared. Two hours of destruction! 😅 Instead this is a 9am lecture, hehe. The Christmas’ around these periods don’t sound far too different, though I do have to admit I don’t fall into the carnal sins on that day. I’m too busy taking advantage of having about a week where my work is closed, and so I can drink! I wonder if the Kirk and Parliament had only got socks for Christmas and it turned them bitter. 😂 Is it known if Charles himself was a big fan of Christmas? I wonder if there was perhaps a drop of spite in the banning of Christmas? The third weekly fast definitely sounds like something they relied on your neighbour telling the authorities you were doing. It’s interesting that the report into the fact Christmas was being celebrated in London, and that the Kings arms and portraits still hung up. It’s always made to sound so black and white that London opposed him.
Oh dear. I hope your coach (and your sanity) have survived! I understand your attitude - I'm looking forward to a week off work as well. Yes, I wonder if the Puritans didn't have good experiences with Christmas growing up and that's why they tried to ban it. Maybe their parents gave rubbish presents, as you suggest. :-) I don't know about Charles II's attitude to Christmas, though he was obviously in favour of celebrating it. I suspect the Merry Monarch threw a good party though :-) Thank you so much for upping your pledge, especially at this time of year and in the middle of a cost of living crisis. That's a very kind gesture 😀⛄🎄
@@HistoryCalling Well around the time I'll raise a glass to you. Haha I would have to agree with that. Throw in a few of coals for a naughty child, add in some money, let rest for 20 years and you have a ready built puritan MP! Follow me for more historical recipes. I thought more Charles the First, though I suspect that Charlie's the Second would have returned it just to upset the puritans. That's okay. My boss is trying to kill me with all the work lately, so may as well spread the cheer!
I've always wondered why it's called the "English Civil War " after all there are so many of them! It ought to have a number! For instance; the First English Civil War, The second Civil War and so on. After all the American Revolution was English Civil War..but as it is always goes; the winners write history ❤❤❤❤
The "English Civil War" is now deemed to be part of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms. This includes the 1639 to 1640 Bishops' Wars, the First and Second English Civil Wars, the Irish Confederate Wars, the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and the Anglo-Scottish War of 1650-1652.
That's a classic portrait of Sir Thomas Fairfax ,nicknamed Black Tom after Charles 1 execution ,and C in C of the Parliamentary Army and not Oliver Cromwell . Tom was the guy in charge even during the Sottish and Irish campaigns in the early 1650s until he decided to call it a day . Cromwell a much loved leader in the Army of Parliament and natural if not ranked successor to Thomas Lord Fairfax , found himself being offered the Crown by his supporters that were now in control of the British Isles ( which he refused having just got rid of one king ), was an Independent and allowed other religions to flourish in the Commonwealth and did not ban Christmas (which is a series of 12 Feast Days of saints including Christ's Feast Day ) including the famous St. Stephens Feast Day . Quakers , Shakers , Adamites ( naked worshippers ) et al sprang up , even Catholicism was permitted but the Puritans were as much rule followers as the were followers of the word or non word of the Bible , the King James version only very recently accepted after many were previously burnt as heretics for translating the same Word . Cromwell was a farmer , soldier and not much of politician and only stepped into ring when either House were taking too many liberties with the nation like abolishing the House of Lords when they had become as greedy as the King they had just executed , very much a chairman's role in a first Republic in the history of the country , the stress of which probably contributed to his death . It must have been extraordinarily difficult controlling the Puritans in England alone after they had been persecuted not long before , many leaving for the Colonies across the Pond . His aim was to maintain a strong Army and Navy to deal with the existing threats from overseas , our traditional enemies . Charles 2 let all that go to pot ! Under Cromwell , the Jewish communities allowed to return and practice , even awarded lands for Jewish Burials outside large cities . John Evelyn's Diary is a great source of info on life of a socialite during the period . The menus he lists of what was eaten on hi days and holy days is amazing . I'm not sure if any of the Feast Days were banned in far flung places like Cornwall , Wales or Ireland as it would have been impossible to police and not in the interest of the local magistrates . The tradition of the Feast Days is alive and well in Cornwall and are great fun and numerous as they have many Saintly towns and villages .
Very educational and unfortunretly Anglo-Saxon cultures, amoung others, today still suffer from some mental diseases spread by the Puritans and other religions.
Politicians saying one thing yet doing the opposite? Surely you jest! Why our noble, illustrious leaders could never be duplicitous snakes because...reasons 😅
Is it possible if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard got their divorce and were sent away is it possible when Henry the 8 died Elizabeth goes and lives with Anne Boleyn or Cathrine Howard instead of Cathrine Parr and avoid Thomas Seymour
That is actually incorrect, if I may say so. Puritans did indeed found the Massachusetts Bay Colony, but no others. We had colonies founded by Quakers (Pennsylvania), colonies founded by business interests (Virginia), a colony founded as refuge for Catholics (Maryland), and even a colony founded by Puritans who believed in freedom of conscience and got thrown out of the Mass Bay Colony (Rhode Island). So even in the very beginning, British colonists in America came from many backgrounds. As to whether Americans are the biggest Christmas celebrators of all, I think there are many places which could give us a run for our money. 😀
Thank you for your interesting video. I think the Puritans and their fellow travellers the Levellers were "humbug". Our Lord and Saviour requires a birthday anyway so why not 25th. December? Not surprised about Scotland, Zvingli and Calvin via John Knox, what do you expect? Much better Lancelot Andrewes and William Laud the Caroline Divines et al, "Armininians". Funny how the date 1660 is often looked upon as a great re-set. Churchill once said the further you look into the past the more you can see into the future. The recent political settlement over Brexit has been called the greatest constitutional settlement since 1660. The power of the people now trumps that of the politicians. For the first time in history the Government and both Houses of Parliament had to enact something most of them wish wouldn't need to be. Love your views of Parliament pre-the great fire of 1834. Unless I am mistaken it is in St.Stephen's Church of the 1300's converted. Please note a couple of your mentions. • Sirloin. One of your Stuart's, James I (and VI) on his way to his coronation stopped off at Houghton Tower, Lancashire. He was so taken by the beef he was fed he knighted it, "Sir Loin". He also rode with the nearby hunt, the Holcombe the oldest in the country which he also enjoyed and allowed them to use his royal colour - red. It is often termed "Hunting Pink" (Nothing to do with the tailor Mr. Pink). You also seemed to say people were given to the "Marshal" if I'm correct(?) and local prisons. I rather fancy this was a euphemism for Marshalsea Prison in Southwark. London had many prisons which have passed into the vernacular like that and the "Clink" though I'm sure you were never a malefactor. I doubt there was ever much chance of getting congregations to ban Christmas thankfully.😁.
@@annmoore6678 Yes, it's an oft neglected era. The Tudors tend to take up most of the "bandwidth" and other eras hardly get a mention. On YT if you haven't read or seen them please look at Dr. Helen Castor's three part documentary The She-wolves. The first part, Matilda and her daughter-in-law Eleanor are featured. If you are interested in this period please get the dvd "The Lion In Winter". Matilda's son was the first Plantagenet. In fact he invented it, taking sprig of broom for his badge, the "plante genista" and is also part of a sub-group the Angevins. Edgar.
@@English_Dawn I have ordered Castor's book from the library and as for the Lion in Winter, I'm 'way older than that. I am familiar with the play and saw the film in the theater when it first came out. In fact, I got interested in that era as a pre-teen reading Robin Hood. The redoubtable Eleanor should have given her name to the whole early Plantagenet era.
Puritans: they would be miserable as sin if that was allowed. I personally don't know how everyone doesn't regard the Puritans as religious extremists on par with some modern day groups but I think that's more to do with the Americans and their myths of how their country came about. Personally, I feel like I'd be doing what I pleased come December 25th and if Parliment didn't like it then they could be like a Christmas roast, and stuff it.
Haha, just as long as you didn't tell Cromwell to stuff it to his face. That's a one-way ticket to the block. Yes, I think of the 17th century lot as extremists too, but as I haven't studied them in great detail, I don't know if I could place them on a par with modern extremists. It's a depressing thought though.
There are actually many different attitudes toward the Puritans in the States, and some do regard them as a religiously extreme group. America has been diverse from the beginning of the colonial era. The various colonies were founded by Catholics, Quakers, and Puritans as religious refuges from persecution in England, by various business interests, and even by Puritan colonists exiled from Massachusetts Bay Colony who were considered too religiously liberal--they believed in freedom of conscience. We are a large and hugely diverse country, so it is really quite difficult to generalize about what an American may think about anything.
Great job on A another fantastic video. I have A question: if Mary I had given birth to A son- and if Mary, queen of scots first husband had never died- Do you think it would lead to A war for the throne.
Hmm, I don't know. I doubt it though. France hadn't tried to take the throne before during the Tudors' reigns and Catholic Europe didn't doubt Mary's legitimacy. It also would have been stupid to provoke Spain even more.
@@HistoryCalling Could have been a subsidiary local war if France and Spain had gone at it, and savagedarksider's premise obtained. Rather like the French and Indian War in the American colonies during the Seven Year's War in Europe.
What religious or holy days were ordained in the New Testament of the bible? The Hebrews had holy days that they were commanded to follow in the Old Testament, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing in the Christian New Testament of the bible. Shouldn't they have outlawed all holy days and even Sunday as a prescribed day of rest? Sunday is a traditional rest day in Christianity, but I don't believe it was commanded by God in the New Testament. Seems politicians have always been two-faced seekers of power.
I think Sundays being for rest comes from Genesis and the idea that God rested on the 7th day of creation. I don't know enough about holy days though to give you a proper answer though I'm afraid. Maybe someone else can jump in here?
They didn't confine themselves to the New Testament. There was a lot of cherry-picking going on, a la Henry VIII and his readings of whether it was wrong to marry your brother's widow.
@@HistoryCalling Puritans were NOT known for having fun. The churches in the Massachusetts Bay Colony would have services that lasted all Sunday. The ushers stood in the back of the church with long poles with brass knobs on the end. They were "head knockers" to tap dozing people on the top of the head to wake them up.
A large generalization: Public celebration of Christmas was forbidden between 1659 and 1681, though prosecutions under this law were minimal or non-existent. While Christmas was slow to be re-accepted in Massachusetts, and wasn't a state holiday until the mid 1800s, in other colonies, founded by Catholics, and by business interests, I doubt it was ever cancelled or diminished. I'm not sure why this picture of the thirteen colonies being generally Puritan in origin persists, but it's not accurate.
Ah yes! The Whos in Whoville will welcome Christmas no matter what. Fahoo Fores Dahoo Dores Welcome Christmas Come this way Fahoo Fores Dahoo Dores Welcome Christmas, Christmas day
@@HistoryCalling It's from the 1966 cartoon "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas". After the Grinch takes all the decorations, the Who's gather around a huge tree and sing that song. I think your older American viewers will be familiar with it.
If Christmas was supposed to coincide with Saturnalia, why did it not fall on Saturnalia? I think this may be just 17th Century speculation, as the Christian Patristic Fathers of earlier centuries gave the reason for Christmas failing on December 25th: it was 9 month's from the feast of the annunciation March 25th. It is also worth pointing out that Christmas does not adopt any of the ritual practices of Saturnalia so it is hard to see how it would be based on it.
*"Listen to me, and you may hear,* *News hath not been this thousand year;* *Herod, Caesar, and many more,* *You never heard the like before;* *Holidays are despis'd, new fashions are devis'd;* *Old Christmas is kick'd out of town;* *Yet let's be content, and the times lament,* *For you see the world turn'd upside down...'* A song from that period: ua-cam.com/video/t-eSGMlxx5I/v-deo.html Interestingly, the ban remained in force in New England for many years, only becoming obsolete by the 19th century. What with all the outcry about the 'War on Christmas', the primary belligerents were... 'Christians'.🤔
You have to celebrate if it's the truth, Cromwell thought it's based on a pagan festival called Saturnalia. That's why he banned it. And Jesus did not say to celebrate my birthday every year.
Not much related to the topic (only to the Stuarts) but: Charles I had his charm, so did Henrietta Maria (mid 17th century hottie), then how did Charles II and James II end up looking like a potato bag😭 maybe it was just the way royal men were depicted in England back in late 17th/ early 18th century, as William III and George of Denmark weren’t that good themselves… Who knows? Anyways, as I said, out of the topic of today’s video, just something I wonder every time I watch late Stuart videos.
@@HistoryCalling Or maybe it was just the beauty standard of the day. After all those have always been around, and judging people from the past with our personal beauty standards is not that fair haha
@@lfgifu296 At least Charles II stood by her and steadfastly refused to divorce her, although it was suggested to him when she failed to produce an heir.
Your statement concerning the origins of December 25th as the date for Christmas is inadequate. You do not address the traditional belief that Jesus was conceived and crucified on the same day, March 25, documented as early as the mid third century, before Emperor Aurelian set December 25 as the date to celebrate Sol Invictus.
Oliver was only jealous because santy never came to him so he banned Christmas that's the real reason but he was probably right to ban the office party
No holidays at all or birthdays. They only celebrate marriage and anniversaries of marriage. Also if you consider deaths something to celebrate they do memorials and when babies are born they do give gifts and cards.
Yeah, evil pandemic. Christmas here in the UK was pretty muted in 2020 in particular as well. People were still able to celebrate at home though at least.
Why do you think the attempt to cancel Christmas in England failed? Let me know below and remember to check out:
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Two words - free will. Attempts to ban things that are popular with large numbers of the population always seem to fail. Prohibition here in the United States is another example.
Christmas is something that instills joy in its celebrants and in the capitalists that cater to them. I'm happy to be among the former. Merry Christmas!
to misquote Cyndi Lauper: "Brits just wanna have fun!"
I think it failed because Christmas/Saturnalia/Yule was such a deeply layered festival, getting in touch with a very basic need to celebrate the time of year as a time of hope and joy, related to the return of the light.
I have to say I've never really bought into the American emphasis on the early Puritans -- a "stiff-necked people." But then, I'm not a New Englander.
However, I have discovered that a few of my French ancestors were Huguenots. I don't think they have the same bad reputation as the English Puritans and Presbyterians though.
I don't buy the Saturnalia story. The early church had a habit of moving into a region, taking their holidays, and making up a story to fit Christianity.
My sister is Jehovah's Witness and this justification sounds a lot like her rationalizations for not celebrating much of anything. One of my sons spent a christmas in England and he said the English do Christmas right. Glad it recovered.
Yeah, Christmas is a big deal here in the UK now. It certainly recovered all right ⛄🎄
My Aunt is a Jehovah’s Witness… no merry making within 50 miles of her or her house! Lol I still send Christmas cards, she likes getting them lol but you better not invite her for Christmas!
Each to their own, but from my experience with family members and work colleagues over the years, it is one of the most joyless theologies I have ever come across.
Thank you History Calling.
My grandma cancelled Christmas once. I've tried since to cancel Tuesdays but to no avail.
Haha. I think if you're gonna cancel any day of the week though, it has to be Mondays, right? :-)
@@HistoryCalling Ideally yes. "Tuesdays are canceled, tell all your friends!" Just seemed like the bright spot in a gloomy Monday...Sundays its harder to spread the word.
Note to all politicians: don't mess with Christmas! I agree it is a bit OTT now, but not celebrating at all is pretty depressing. Even if you are not a christian, everyone needs a rest and at the darkest point of the year (northern hemisphere) then it makes sense to just stay at home with your family (if poss), eat, drink and let the brain recover. I intend to stew in my own juice and rest up, open my presents and thank the Lord for what I have. It doesn't need to get more complicated than that, unless you want it to. Merry Christmas HC, I will drink to your health and continued production of excellent videos. Cheers!
Thanks Elisabeth and I agree - no Christmas is a bit depressing if you're used to celebrating it and it does make the dark nights of November and December a bit easier to bear. Merry Christmas to you too 🎄⛄
Glad Christmas became something that folk like to celebrate. I know it’s important to almost everyone.
I was a strange and curious child. I told my parents they were confusing me. I asked who should I thank for my presents. Then I told them that there was no Santa Clause. I never received Christmas presents from them and family ever again. Lol.
When I became a mother, I put up a Christmas tree and decorated. I told them that their presents came from me and their dad. On Christmas week my daughter and I bake cookies and watch Christmas movies. Mainly Love actually. So I’m grateful Christmas wasn’t cancelled permanently. I cherish my Christmas week with my daughter.
Thank you for this video. It’s bringing the Christmas cheer to everyone. Have a lovely weekend.
Letitia, I had a somewhat similar experience the Christmas Eve that I was 5 and still needed someone to take me to the bathroom at night in the dark. My dad was so sleepy in the middle of the night that when I suddenly said, "There isn't really a Santa Claus, is there?" he just said, "No," too sleepy to come up with any fairy tale explanation. But we still celebrated and I knew who to thank after that!
@@annmoore6678
I’m glad you parents gave you gifts. I didn’t get presents as a punishment because I asked too many questions. At least I can celebrate it with my own family. 😊
That was so mean of your parents :
@@vanessasamayoa9329
Thank you. I consider them as a lesson of what not to do. It made me a better parent.
Oh Leticia, that's so horrible. I'm sorry that happened to you, but I'm glad you've made and continue to make wonderful Christmas memories with your daughter (I love Love Actually too). ⛄
Great video! I’m American and had no idea that Christmas was outlawed in England for that long? Now I must watch the one about Father Christmas.
Thank you. Yes, it was a rather depressing 16 years. Thankfully England got Christmas back though :-)
It wasn't just in England. In 1659, the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony banned the public celebrating of Christmas. It was done not only on a theological basis (no mention of celebrating the Nativity in the Bible), but also because of the rowdy behavior associated with the holiday. There was door to door begging and a lot of mischief: vandalism, drunkenness. It was rather like a cross between Halloween and spring break. Stephen Nissenbaum, who wrote a book on the subject of celebrating Christmas, says no prosecutions were ever made under the new law, which was clearly meant to control mayhem rather than to prevent quiet private celebrations.
The law was repealed under pressure from Charles II in 1686, but schools were open on the 25th, and churches closed, until well into the 1800s. Christmas wasn't a state holiday until 1856.
Best Xmas present, HC!!
AWW, THANK YOU STEPHEN for such a nice Christmas present in return :-)
Thanks!
THANK YOU so much Terrie for such a generous donation to the channel. I think I'm going to look on SuperThanks donations this month as bonus Christmas presents and they're much appreciated (as always). 🎄⛄
Thanks for another fun & fact filled year. Here's something for your Xmas Stocking
THANKS CHRIS for such a kind donation the the (albeit imaginary) HC Christmas stocking fund :-)
@@HistoryCalling Ahem...I meant Admin Fund 🤭
Of course 😉
Of course 😉
As you were telling the story, the first things that popped into my head were "did they actually stop celebrating?" and "how strictly was the law enforced?" Your answer was pretty much what I suspected. I was not aware of this little snippet of history - thank you for sharing it! I always learn so much from you! Hope you are enjoying your holiday season so far! ❤🎄
Haha, you can't keep a good Christmas celebration down. I was happy when I read that people carried on celebrating as well. No wonder people were happy to be rid of the Puritans and get the monarchy back. Have a lovely Christmas 🎄
Behind closed doors, probably.
Okay, this sent me on a little tangent about the Christmas carol _The Holly and the Ivy,_ but apparently it only dates back to around 1710. I was hoping it had some unexpected rebellious history.
Happy not cancelled Christmas to you! Have a very enjoyable holiday season.
THANK YOU so much Annika for such a lovely Christmas present :-) Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. I hope you have a lovely holiday too. 🎄⛄
A delightful presentation! You managed to make an early holiday out of this account of the Puritans' unsuccessful effort to make December truly dark and dreary. I suppose the same policies applied to St. Valentine's Day and other Christian holidays that had originated as the old Celtic cross quarter days, but those might not have been as big an issue as Christmas.
I haven't looked up other days specifically, but yes, they did just issue a blanket ban on saints' days, so the others must have been down the drain as well. Such party poopers, as I said in the video :-(
Yes they banned such celebrations as May Day.
I followed your recommendation to watch your presentation from last year on the origins of Santa Claus. Our local community choir has just performed Benjamin Brittain's "Ceremony of Carols" and especially "St. Nicholas," which musically retells all the legends you shared in the video. It was a great success, especially the revival of the three pickled boys, who won everybody's hearts. Thank you for welcoming in December with these two delightful posts.
That sounds lovely. Yes, the pickled children is an 'interesting' part of that story. It's not something you would immediately associate with Santa Claus, that's for sure :-) I'm glad you enjoyed both the videos.
Love your videos and this one is no disappointment! However, the piano intro is much TOO loud as compared to the rest of the video, so when I turned it up slightly to more easily hear your voice, the piano intro kicked in and startled everyone in the room! Perhaps IT might level off the volumes?
The observation of Christmas was also banned by the Puritans in America, at least in Boston, from 1659 to 1681. The Quakers, who were more numerous in Pennsylvania, didn’t observe Christmas but they also didn’t ban it.
See, I have no problem with that. If they opt/opted not to celebrate it, that's totally fine with me, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on anyone else. I wish other people would learn that lesson too, even in the modern era. Sadly there's always extremists, trying to force everyone else to be like them.
In the Plymouth colony the official ban started in something like 1622. Pretty sure Boston was similar.
Wonderful video. Please could you touch on the history of Easter, and also the Tooth Mouse/Fairy❤
Great suggestion , this was very interesting!
Fascinating. Thank you
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it. ⛄
You always do history justice HC, in a word Religion, the Christmas ban failed people still celebrated it but not openly the Puritans tried to impose something they couldn't control, thank you HC as always.
Thanks Simon. Yes, it's never a good idea to try to control other people's religious beliefs. It just never ends well, but yet people still keep trying to do it.
@@HistoryCalling yes indeed HC, and again I'd like to thank for your superb content, also your humour and research and presentation.😊
Great storytelling! I was previously unaware of the banning of Christmas. How things have evolved.
Yes, those pesky Puritans, killing everyone's fun. 😬
Wow! I wasn't aware of this! I think the failure of cancelling Christmas was that so many people loved the
holiday. Those that were in favor of it outnumbered those that were against it.
I think so too. It's not a good idea to try to take the little bit of fun people have in their lives away from them.
I'm a Catholic, but not particularly religious. I'd heard of Cromwell's cancellation of Christmas before, but didn't realize how seriously it was enforced. I think if Christmas didn't already exist, we would have to invent it, to stave off the winter doldrums from such long nights, and cold days. If I may suggest an episode - I've long wondered about the holidays mentioned in many English historical stories. Days like Michaelmas, Whitsunday, Lady Day, Shrove Tuesday and Midsummer. What were these days meant to celebrate? Were they Holy days? Fast days? Recognized by the church? Other religions? When did they fall from common usage? Was it a lasting consequence of Cromwell's ban of Christmas?
Excellent idea. Even I don't know much about those holidays. I'll add it to my (admittedly very long at this point) list.
The Catholic Church still recognizes many feast and Holy Days. Some do tie into pagan celebrations. They are just given a religious meaning for instance Midsummer is John the Baptist’s feast day.
I'm Catholic as well (practicing)
The Holy Days of Obligation as they are called in the Catholic church are:
January 1st
Solemnity of Mary
Mother of God
40 days after Easter
The Ascension of the Lord
August 15th
The Assumption of the
Blessed Virgin Mary
November 1st
All Saints Day
December 8th
The Immaculate Conception
December 25th
The Nativity
All Sundays are holy days of obligation as well
@@verak66 correct. Although not Holy Days of obligation, there are also many Feast Days of the Saints.
@@Nightbird1914 Yes. And so many others that we don't hear about often enough
Good evening to history calling
HI Bea :-) Hope you enjoyed the premiere.
Paganism, devil worship, anti-catholicism and general licentiousness, sounds like a Christmas party I attended back in 1970.
Great stuff as always
I wanted to get people's attention from the start :-)
It wasnt just London. My ancestors lived in Canterbury and they were so outraged at the Christmas ban that it sparked the Plum Pudding Riots in 1647 which were an escalation of a brutal football match through the city.
The puritans were the very essence of the Fun Police.
I need to go look that up now. It sounds amazing!
@@HistoryCalling I hope you found it ok and found it interesting. Canterbury has a very interesting past, often rivalling London.
I loved that you threw in the tidbit of photographing the holly and ivy in a local cemetery. Nearby Colma, CA is full of cemeteries. Wyatt Earp's ashes can be found there. Perfect video! Rock on, HC!! 👏👏
A cemetery a lot of my relations are buried in in fact. Fortunately there wasn't anyone living around at the time to ask me what on earth I was doing.
@@HistoryCalling 😆I once visited a cemetery where my late friend's grave was still unmarked and sought the help of some groundskeepers to locate it. As they were leaving I asked, "Do you guys ever worry about ghosts?" They laughed and replied, "We don't work here at night!"
Ah, you see the ghosts just want them to think they only come out at night 😜
@@stephencarrillo5905 and then you found out that there really were no groundskeepers there, right? 🤣🤣
@@matthewjones12181 🤣🤣 How did you know?
Really like the new format.
Thanks Charles :-)
Oh thank you! I think I was one who suggested the topic. Very well done. The artwork was beautiful too. If I am not mistaken the Puritans who settled in the Northeastern part of the USA, which was then a British colony, also forbade Christmas and other celebrations. How dull it must have been!
You're very welcome and thank you again for your SuperThanks donation too :-) Yes, it does indeed sound quite dull!
My goodness, two videos in one week. Fab! I don't know if you've already gotten your videos written for this month, but I'd love to see a video on the 12 days of Christmas
I'm afraid they are indeed already done up to the middle of January, but that's a great idea for next year :-) Mind you, this video is flopping (and last year's did too), so I'm starting to wonder if Christmas themed videos are actually a bad idea :-(
@@HistoryCalling I thought it was a fascinating video, and awful to imagine being subjected to such a miserable law. I didn't know until now there was a video on the origin of Father Christmas but I'm off to watch now. I hope you will get more views as the month progresses and more of the Christmas Spirit abounds.
Because in the end it is what the people wanted. That was very interesting I so look forward to your stuff all the time. Thank you.
Thanks Vernon (and I agree).
17:36 The Scottish Parliament did indeed abolish the celebration of Christmas - it was no great thing. Scottish Christianity originally came via Ireland and was Celtic in outlook ,didn’t make a big thing about the birth of Christ ;plus There was no heartening back to English pagan rituals holly &Ivy /saturnalia etc-or “Romish High-Jinks”But of more importance …it was more pragmatic than that ..people had no money!.Traditionally and by law All monetary debts had to be paid by last day of the Old Year ..Thats when craftsmen paid their apprentices and so on Tradesmen had to be paid ,other outstanding debts had to be settled as well Thats why the pragmatic Scots celebrated New Year- folk had money in their pocket and tradesmen were more than happy to take it .
Whoa! I understand the concept of traditional Christmas being based on pagan celebrations and customs, but had no idea a law had been passed against it. And the relationship between the ban and the monarchy.... incredible. Thanks HC. You're a raisin among the flakes. Lvya much
Haha, I've never been called a raisin among the flakes before, but I take it as a compliment. :-)
@@HistoryCalling it's an awesome compliment! 💛🤗
What a fun video for this time of year!
Wow, I didn’t know any of this! Great video!
Thank you. Yes, it's quite a story.
This was completely compelling to listen to, one of the most interesting aspects of the Cromwell rebellion.
Thanks Megan :-)
This was so interesting. I don’t think I knew about all the rigamorole that occurred. I love Christmas. I’m not Catholic, Presbyterian, or such, I just like that most people are a little bit nicer and a little more tolerant. I like to think the Lord likes that, whether it’s his birthday or not. Well done HC. ❤️
Well said :-)
Whether religious or not, I think a lot of people would want some kind of festival to celebrate in the depths of winter when there's not much else to be cheerful about. Plus Christmas was just an ingrained habit for a lot of people, and there are always going to be people who just don't want to do what the government says. Put all of that together, and the puritans were fighting an uphill battle.
BTW, I had to pause and check the caption at 2:21 because I'm sure one of my grandmothers had a copy of that painting in the hallway when I was a kid, it was labeled as "Pilgrims Going To Church". May have been a different painting with a similar subject matter though.
I think that might be the name of the painting, yes. :-) I agree that we all need something nice and fun to help with the miserable winter. I just wish we could have something else around the middle of February too to get us over that last winter hump.
As to why the effort to suppress Christmas failed? Just look outside! Oregon weather is very like Ireland's. It even snowed for a few hours yesterday. What else can we do when the vegetable garden turns black and dreary, the rain pours down, and we layer on our cable-knit sweaters and heavy socks? Add a little Jameson's to the pumpkin pie filling, light some candles and put on some Christmas music!
You got snow! I'm jealous. We actually get very little of it here (even less with climate change) and it usually arrives in February or March. I can only remember one white Christmas sadly, which was in 2010 I believe when we got a major Arctic blast. ⛄
I’ve lived in snowier places, so I’m content with only occasional flurries where I live and seeing snowy peaks in the distance ( on clear days).
Samuel Peeps writes about how people punished for celebrating Christmas were marched through the village with a cut off ear just for decorating their home or door with Holly greens, ivy, or bay.
Great job! Had no clue about this story!
Thanks Nathan. One of my Patrons suggested it and I thought it would make a good December video.
Interesting. Hubby and I don't celebrate Christmas the way most do. We do a scaled down Holiday. We enjoy the visiting of family and friends, but we don't do the tree. I guess I'm somewhat a puritan, and laughed when I realized that I'm related to Isaac Ambrose. I enjoyed your video!
Nice new logo keeping it simple
Thank you. I wanted something a bit slicker :-)
As always, a great presentation! What all is in the hot drink? It looked good!
Oh that was just stock footage I'm afraid, so I don't know. Sorry!
Our Scottish Grandpa (born 1910 Paisley, moved to London in the 30s, then Australia in the 50s}, never celebrated Christmas. No tree, no gifts, no cards, no dinner, no explanation why ?? He become our Master of Ceremony for their neighbourhood New Years Eve party in his senior years, but only followed a fraction of all the rather odd rules of Hogmanay. Or even call it Hogmanay, but looking back, that's what it was. Just wish now I'd asked him more questions as a Wee Laddie 🙂
Ah, maybe he was a closet Puritan :-)
i’m not a huge christmas time fan however i will say i can’t imagine living in a world where it is banned. excellent video!
Thanks. Me neither. It just sounds so miserable :-(
@@HistoryCalling absolutely, no thanks!!
I can’t stop picturing you looking up: “surprised Santa” for the thumbnail😭😭
Haha, you know I don't think I did. I think I just put 'Santa' into Unsplash (or some site like it) and scrolled through the options till I saw something that I thought would fit :-)
As I was watching, I imagines being a shopkeeper being questioned why my store was closed. I'd have a major limp (favoring the left side, I'd have to practice in advance) and would complain of a rheumatism, as that sounds just vague enough to be impacted by weather
That's both detailed and entirely plausible :-)
Hello again HC. This is Angus MacMillan, I don't know how my name was changed as to the current one but I thought it best to identify myself to you.. GOD BLESS you for a very objective report. I know that in Scotland they do not celebrate Christmas per se, but Celebrate Hogmanay (First Footing and all that) instead. I won't tell you how my Southern Irish mother (God rest her beautiful soul) used to refer to Cromwell, It used to be a great a great source of Mirth.
Hi Angus and thank you for such a lovely comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I have friends who live in Scotland, so I've heard lots of great stories about Hogmanay :-) It sounds like a blast. I can imagine what your Mum thought of Cromwell and she may not have been far wrong. Merry Christmas ⛄🎄
1640's and later~Cromwell was prioritizing his efforts of obliterating/massacring the Irish people. Gladly swinging the sword to leave a bloody trail and put a decent dent into the population. Saddened my heart what happened in Portadown but can't blame the Irish~they were provoked beyond measure.
"AND CALL OF CHRISTMAS!" - The sheriff of Nottingham, 1991.
Can’t watch yet as I’m currently parked up waiting for a school sports team, but while you’re about as it’s a premiere I wanted to say you’re epic and to keep it up! X
Thanks Jay. I hope the kids aren't too rowdy and annoying!
@@HistoryCalling one day I’ll work out how to send you voice or video and you can hear that they are very very rowdy. It looks like they’ve won so to celebrate, no doubt my poor coach shall be trashed!
I’ll stick your video on while I clean hehr
Oh dear. Well, maybe they'll lose next time and be so down in the dumps they'll just sit quietly. We can hope!
@@HistoryCalling haha. Unfortunately they also punish the coach for defeat.
I can’t moan too loud. The schools in Salisbury so I had a wander in the cathedral. Be rude not to!
Hello history calling . Just found you. Amazing . See you got phd.just subbed. Do you have a name ? Have you wrote any books? Why hide your identity ? Went through all Tudor stuff. Found loads of stuff. Amazing lady. Anyway why not you do Tudor stuff from Ireland ? thank you
Thanks Rob. I just like my privacy. I have indeed written books, journal articles etc. and perhaps at some point if/when I release my name, I'll share their titles with everyone too. I find (having already created a few) that people don't watch Irish history videos much I'm afraid :-(
Thank you. Maybe one day then ! Or you could wear a Tudor mask!. I for one would love to hear about your country in Tudor times. Maybe you could do something with cronwell? .can you recommend any tudor Irish history. Thank you for reply . Take care. Xx
Sounds like an idea!!! No presents and no Christmas music. I work retail/bakery so I don’t see much of a no Christmas downside.
Aww, I can see why's not the most wonderful time of the year for you, but I still think it was a bit harsh to ban it so entirely :-(
I am really enjoying your channel, thank you. Have you ever considered doing something on William Rufus? Legends like Adam Bell or Herne the Hunter? Just some ideas. Thank you again.
You'll have to wait and see (hint - there is more medieval madness in the very near future).
@@HistoryCalling I really enjoyed your historical view of Christmas versus the English Puritans. I have to admit that my mother’s side of the family half were English Puritans and the other half were Cavaliers. My great great and so on William Goff signed the death warrant on Charles I. His brother had become a Roman Priest and went to France during the Puritans reign. Part of my Mom’s family were responsible for canceling Christmas. We’ll just a personal spot of history for you. Thank you again for such a great channel.
I am the archetypal grumpy old git therefore completely agree with the sentiment. It's spiralled into nothing but a commercial circus, with the clowns taking centre stage. 😏 But will see you at the Prem if only for the chats 😄
Haha, I know. It was a bit less commercial then though and I think the ban was a bit much when it extended to holly and ivy :-) See you later!
Half of my family are English and we definitely love Christmas. I always think what happened to Charles I , was a sin. He was a king therefore, he was anointed by God. It’s always the minority causing problems for everyone else
Okay, I never got to watch this last night as the coach was far far worse than I feared. Two hours of destruction! 😅
Instead this is a 9am lecture, hehe.
The Christmas’ around these periods don’t sound far too different, though I do have to admit I don’t fall into the carnal sins on that day. I’m too busy taking advantage of having about a week where my work is closed, and so I can drink!
I wonder if the Kirk and Parliament had only got socks for Christmas and it turned them bitter. 😂 Is it known if Charles himself was a big fan of Christmas? I wonder if there was perhaps a drop of spite in the banning of Christmas?
The third weekly fast definitely sounds like something they relied on your neighbour telling the authorities you were doing.
It’s interesting that the report into the fact Christmas was being celebrated in London, and that the Kings arms and portraits still hung up. It’s always made to sound so black and white that London opposed him.
Also as an early Christmas present for you, I’ve upped my patreon pledge ❤
Oh dear. I hope your coach (and your sanity) have survived! I understand your attitude - I'm looking forward to a week off work as well.
Yes, I wonder if the Puritans didn't have good experiences with Christmas growing up and that's why they tried to ban it. Maybe their parents gave rubbish presents, as you suggest. :-)
I don't know about Charles II's attitude to Christmas, though he was obviously in favour of celebrating it. I suspect the Merry Monarch threw a good party though :-)
Thank you so much for upping your pledge, especially at this time of year and in the middle of a cost of living crisis. That's a very kind gesture 😀⛄🎄
@@HistoryCalling Well around the time I'll raise a glass to you.
Haha I would have to agree with that. Throw in a few of coals for a naughty child, add in some money, let rest for 20 years and you have a ready built puritan MP! Follow me for more historical recipes.
I thought more Charles the First, though I suspect that Charlie's the Second would have returned it just to upset the puritans.
That's okay. My boss is trying to kill me with all the work lately, so may as well spread the cheer!
Haven’t watched it yet. Just assumed this would be about Christmas during the pandemic 🤷♀️
No, no not at all. It's about 17th century England.
I've always wondered why it's called the "English Civil War " after all there are so many of them! It ought to have a number! For instance; the First English Civil War, The second Civil War and so on. After all the American Revolution was English Civil War..but as it is always goes; the winners write history ❤❤❤❤
The "English Civil War" is now deemed to be part of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms. This includes the 1639 to 1640 Bishops' Wars, the First and Second English Civil Wars, the Irish Confederate Wars, the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and the Anglo-Scottish War of 1650-1652.
It wasn't illegal in Scotland just not a national holiday until the 1960's
That's a classic portrait of Sir Thomas Fairfax ,nicknamed Black Tom after Charles 1 execution ,and C in C of the Parliamentary Army and not Oliver Cromwell . Tom was the guy in charge even during the Sottish and Irish campaigns in the early 1650s until he decided to call it a day . Cromwell a much loved leader in the Army of Parliament and natural if not ranked successor to Thomas Lord Fairfax , found himself being offered the Crown by his supporters that were now in control of the British Isles ( which he refused having just got rid of one king ), was an Independent and allowed other religions to flourish in the Commonwealth and did not ban Christmas (which is a series of 12 Feast Days of saints including Christ's Feast Day ) including the famous St. Stephens Feast Day . Quakers , Shakers , Adamites ( naked worshippers ) et al sprang up , even Catholicism was permitted but the Puritans were as much rule followers as the were followers of the word or non word of the Bible , the King James version only very recently accepted after many were previously burnt as heretics for translating the same Word . Cromwell was a farmer , soldier and not much of politician and only stepped into ring when either House were taking too many liberties with the nation like abolishing the House of Lords when they had become as greedy as the King they had just executed , very much a chairman's role in a first Republic in the history of the country , the stress of which probably contributed to his death . It must have been extraordinarily difficult controlling the Puritans in England alone after they had been persecuted not long before , many leaving for the Colonies across the Pond . His aim was to maintain a strong Army and Navy to deal with the existing threats from overseas , our traditional enemies . Charles 2 let all that go to pot ! Under Cromwell , the Jewish communities allowed to return and practice , even awarded lands for Jewish Burials outside large cities .
John Evelyn's Diary is a great source of info on life of a socialite during the period . The menus he lists of what was eaten on hi days and holy days is amazing . I'm not sure if any of the Feast Days were banned in far flung places like Cornwall , Wales or Ireland as it would have been impossible to police and not in the interest of the local magistrates . The tradition of the Feast Days is alive and well in Cornwall and are great fun and numerous as they have many Saintly towns and villages .
I love Christmas.
Me too :-)
Very educational and unfortunretly Anglo-Saxon cultures, amoung others, today still suffer from some mental diseases spread by the Puritans and other religions.
Politicians saying one thing yet doing the opposite? Surely you jest! Why our noble, illustrious leaders could never be duplicitous snakes because...reasons 😅
Haha, I'm not even going to engage with that one - we'd be here til New Year discussing it.
Is it possible if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard got their divorce and were sent away is it possible when Henry the 8 died Elizabeth goes and lives with Anne Boleyn or Cathrine Howard instead of Cathrine Parr and avoid Thomas Seymour
Bah-humbug. The irony is, of course, the puritans formed the USA and they are now arguably the biggest Christmas celebrators of all time.
Oliver will be rolling in his graves (and the plural there is intended!) 😬
@@HistoryCalling Yes! He'd lose his mind... both figuratively and literally 🤣
That is actually incorrect, if I may say so. Puritans did indeed found the Massachusetts Bay Colony, but no others. We had colonies founded by Quakers (Pennsylvania), colonies founded by business interests (Virginia), a colony founded as refuge for Catholics (Maryland), and even a colony founded by Puritans who believed in freedom of conscience and got thrown out of the Mass Bay Colony (Rhode Island). So even in the very beginning, British colonists in America came from many backgrounds.
As to whether Americans are the biggest Christmas celebrators of all, I think there are many places which could give us a run for our money. 😀
@@edithengel2284 haha. I appreciate your correction 😁 perhaps Germany gives America a rub for its money! 😁
@@Problembeing 😀
What did rosemary ever do? 😂
That's what I want to know too. It was presumably seen as having been used in 'magic' spells or something.
My Yorkie dog was worried about you he thought something had happened to you he was going to go and try to find you. He loves you that much.
Aww, thank you. I was just in the live chat answering comments for the premiere.
I would have hated to have been a Puritan...what dark days.
Thank you for your interesting video.
I think the Puritans and their fellow travellers the Levellers were "humbug".
Our Lord and Saviour requires a birthday anyway so why not 25th. December?
Not surprised about Scotland, Zvingli and Calvin via John Knox, what do you expect?
Much better Lancelot Andrewes and William Laud the Caroline Divines et al, "Armininians".
Funny how the date 1660 is often looked upon as a great re-set.
Churchill once said the further you look into the past the more you can see into the future.
The recent political settlement over Brexit has been called the greatest constitutional settlement since 1660. The power of the people now trumps that of the politicians. For the first time in history the Government and both Houses of Parliament had to enact something most of them wish wouldn't need to be.
Love your views of Parliament pre-the great fire of 1834. Unless I am mistaken it is in St.Stephen's Church of the 1300's converted.
Please note a couple of your mentions.
• Sirloin. One of your Stuart's, James I (and VI) on his way to his coronation stopped off at Houghton Tower, Lancashire. He was so taken by the beef he was fed he knighted it, "Sir Loin". He also rode with the nearby hunt, the Holcombe the oldest in the country which he also enjoyed and allowed them to use his royal colour - red. It is often termed "Hunting Pink" (Nothing to do with the tailor Mr. Pink).
You also seemed to say people were given to the "Marshal" if I'm correct(?) and local prisons.
I rather fancy this was a euphemism for Marshalsea Prison in Southwark. London had many prisons which have passed into the vernacular like that and the "Clink" though I'm sure you were never a malefactor.
I doubt there was ever much chance of getting congregations to ban Christmas thankfully.😁.
Thanks Edgar. Something medieval next week which I suspect you'll approve of :-)
@@HistoryCalling "Yea", not those "Lollards" I hope, they're as bad as the Puritans. 😉
Thank you so much,
Edgar. 🙂
@@English_Dawn I read "The White Ship" last weekend. A terrific book.
@@annmoore6678 Yes, it's an oft neglected era. The Tudors tend to take up most of the "bandwidth" and other eras hardly get a mention.
On YT if you haven't read or seen them please look at Dr. Helen Castor's three part documentary The She-wolves. The first part, Matilda and her daughter-in-law Eleanor are featured.
If you are interested in this period please get the dvd "The Lion In Winter". Matilda's son was the first Plantagenet. In fact he invented it, taking sprig of broom for his badge, the "plante genista" and is also part of a sub-group the Angevins.
Edgar.
@@English_Dawn I have ordered Castor's book from the library and as for the Lion in Winter, I'm 'way older than that. I am familiar with the play and saw the film in the theater when it first came out. In fact, I got interested in that era as a pre-teen reading Robin Hood. The redoubtable Eleanor should have given her name to the whole early Plantagenet era.
Puritans: they would be miserable as sin if that was allowed. I personally don't know how everyone doesn't regard the Puritans as religious extremists on par with some modern day groups but I think that's more to do with the Americans and their myths of how their country came about. Personally, I feel like I'd be doing what I pleased come December 25th and if Parliment didn't like it then they could be like a Christmas roast, and stuff it.
Haha, just as long as you didn't tell Cromwell to stuff it to his face. That's a one-way ticket to the block. Yes, I think of the 17th century lot as extremists too, but as I haven't studied them in great detail, I don't know if I could place them on a par with modern extremists. It's a depressing thought though.
There are actually many different attitudes toward the Puritans in the States, and some do regard them as a religiously extreme group. America has been diverse from the beginning of the colonial era. The various colonies were founded by Catholics, Quakers, and Puritans as religious refuges from persecution in England, by various business interests, and even by Puritan colonists exiled from Massachusetts Bay Colony who were considered too religiously liberal--they believed in freedom of conscience.
We are a large and hugely diverse country, so it is really quite difficult to generalize about what an American may think about anything.
Great job on A another fantastic video. I have A question: if Mary I had given birth to A son- and if Mary, queen of scots first husband had never died- Do you think it would lead to A war for the throne.
Hmm, I don't know. I doubt it though. France hadn't tried to take the throne before during the Tudors' reigns and Catholic Europe didn't doubt Mary's legitimacy. It also would have been stupid to provoke Spain even more.
@@HistoryCalling Could have been a subsidiary local war if France and Spain had gone at it, and savagedarksider's premise obtained. Rather like the French and Indian War in the American colonies during the Seven Year's War in Europe.
What religious or holy days were ordained in the New Testament of the bible? The Hebrews had holy days that they were commanded to follow in the Old Testament, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing in the Christian New Testament of the bible. Shouldn't they have outlawed all holy days and even Sunday as a prescribed day of rest? Sunday is a traditional rest day in Christianity, but I don't believe it was commanded by God in the New Testament. Seems politicians have always been two-faced seekers of power.
I think Sundays being for rest comes from Genesis and the idea that God rested on the 7th day of creation. I don't know enough about holy days though to give you a proper answer though I'm afraid. Maybe someone else can jump in here?
They didn't confine themselves to the New Testament. There was a lot of cherry-picking going on, a la Henry VIII and his readings of whether it was wrong to marry your brother's widow.
Christmas in the USA was illegal until as late as 1870. Puritans had much sway until then.
Oh boo. That doesn't sound like any fun.
@@HistoryCalling Puritans were NOT known for having fun. The churches in the Massachusetts Bay Colony would have services that lasted all Sunday. The ushers stood in the back of the church with long poles with brass knobs on the end. They were "head knockers" to tap dozing people on the top of the head to wake them up.
A large generalization: Public celebration of Christmas was forbidden between 1659 and 1681, though prosecutions under this law were minimal or non-existent. While Christmas was slow to be re-accepted in Massachusetts, and wasn't a state holiday until the mid 1800s, in other colonies, founded by Catholics, and by business interests, I doubt it was ever cancelled or diminished. I'm not sure why this picture of the thirteen colonies being generally Puritan in origin persists, but it's not accurate.
Hummm… Seems like Oliver Cromwell is making yet another appearance🤨
Not in the way you might think though...
@@HistoryCalling intrigued🥸
@@HistoryCallingAfter watching it- thanks! It was a common held belief I had, glad to learn the truth of it!
Ah yes! The Whos in Whoville will welcome Christmas no matter what.
Fahoo Fores Dahoo Dores
Welcome Christmas Come this way
Fahoo Fores Dahoo Dores
Welcome Christmas, Christmas day
I haven't heard that rhyme before, but it's very sweet :-)
@@HistoryCalling It's from the 1966 cartoon "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas". After the Grinch takes all the decorations, the Who's gather around a huge tree and sing that song. I think your older American viewers will be familiar with it.
If Christmas was supposed to coincide with Saturnalia, why did it not fall on Saturnalia? I think this may be just 17th Century speculation, as the Christian Patristic Fathers of earlier centuries gave the reason for Christmas failing on December 25th: it was 9 month's from the feast of the annunciation March 25th. It is also worth pointing out that Christmas does not adopt any of the ritual practices of Saturnalia so it is hard to see how it would be based on it.
What country, that’s all I want to know.
Mainly England/Wales, but Scotland got in on the action too, though not at the same time...
Michaelmas & Halloween didn’t survive the Puritans…..nor Easter Carols
Carol Dances & Mummers Plays both popular in Tudor times also didn’t survive
I think Halloween survived, at least in the US.
The fun police.
Exactly! :-)
It failed because as history has shown you cannot "legislate" away a good time no matter how hard you try.
Precisely. All the Puritans did was make themselves even more unpopular.
Imo it ultimately failed simply because people like a good party. That and as you stated, the Puritans were a minority.
Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, is having a good time. (Can't remember who said that!)
I've read that one too. It's funny cause it's kinda true (at least it seems true for 17th century Puritans).
*"Listen to me, and you may hear,*
*News hath not been this thousand year;*
*Herod, Caesar, and many more,*
*You never heard the like before;*
*Holidays are despis'd, new fashions are devis'd;*
*Old Christmas is kick'd out of town;*
*Yet let's be content, and the times lament,*
*For you see the world turn'd upside down...'*
A song from that period: ua-cam.com/video/t-eSGMlxx5I/v-deo.html
Interestingly, the ban remained in force in New England for many years, only becoming obsolete by the 19th century. What with all the outcry about the 'War on Christmas', the primary belligerents were... 'Christians'.🤔
Great poem. I hadn't heard that one before. ⛄
😮
Yup :-)
You have to celebrate if it's the truth, Cromwell thought it's based on a pagan festival called Saturnalia. That's why he banned it. And Jesus did not say to celebrate my birthday every year.
Not much related to the topic (only to the Stuarts) but: Charles I had his charm, so did Henrietta Maria (mid 17th century hottie), then how did Charles II and James II end up looking like a potato bag😭 maybe it was just the way royal men were depicted in England back in late 17th/ early 18th century, as William III and George of Denmark weren’t that good themselves… Who knows? Anyways, as I said, out of the topic of today’s video, just something I wonder every time I watch late Stuart videos.
Haha, you know I think they might have been better looking in real life. Both were quite the ladies' men, even by royal standards.
@@HistoryCalling True🧍♀️Oh my poor Catherine of Braganza :’) Well we appreciate her here but I wish Charles would have appreciated her more haha.
@@HistoryCalling Or maybe it was just the beauty standard of the day. After all those have always been around, and judging people from the past with our personal beauty standards is not that fair haha
Yes, I worked on her whilst doing my MA. He was a real jerk to her, as was Lady Castlemaine.
@@lfgifu296 At least Charles II stood by her and steadfastly refused to divorce her, although it was suggested to him when she failed to produce an heir.
Your statement concerning the origins of December 25th as the date for Christmas is inadequate. You do not address the traditional belief that Jesus was conceived and crucified on the same day, March 25, documented as early as the mid third century, before Emperor Aurelian set December 25 as the date to celebrate Sol Invictus.
Puritanism was the No Fun religion. 😁 Another reason that the Restoration should be celebrated. 🎉
They certainly did themselves no favours in terms of their popularity with the general public.
im GLAD they cancellled this day !!!
Oliver was only jealous because santy never came to him so he banned Christmas that's the real reason but he was probably right to ban the office party
HE definitely doesn't look like a guy afflicted with the Christmas spirit, that's for sure.
Actually the date was chosen because the pagans were preoccupied and the Christians left alone so they THEIR way.could celebrate.
Instead the puritans came to America and wrecked havoc here 😔
The Puritans really only "wreaked havoc" in Massachusetts, the other colonies were founded by quite different religious and business groups.
Christmas is not celebrated by Jehovah's witnesses either, they consider it pagan.
Yes! And birthdays neither, I think. I have a Jehovah’s witness friend and he told me about it.
@@lfgifu296 yes, not birthdays or new year
Very true. No Easter either.
No holidays at all or birthdays. They only celebrate marriage and anniversaries of marriage. Also if you consider deaths something to celebrate they do memorials and when babies are born they do give gifts and cards.
I don’t think it was the religious thing, I think it was more about the fun cuz puritans back then (not so much now) hated fun
They do seem to have been rather allergic to it, don't they?
A Puritan: Fun Killer.
In the 17th century, definitely. I actually don't know if there are any Puritans about today though and if so what their beliefs are.
Christmas was cancelled in California in 2020 and again in 2021.
Yeah, evil pandemic. Christmas here in the UK was pretty muted in 2020 in particular as well. People were still able to celebrate at home though at least.
it's a mankind celebration an not sanctioned by the bible. It's all pagan not religious.
Jesus was born Sept 11
Thanks!
THANK YOU so much for your donation to the channel Jay. I hope you enjoyed hearing about the Puritans' take on Christmas :-)