I was doing two cars using Evaporust. I was wasting a lot as it was running off all of the chassis components. Not to be beaten I used a fumed silica mix and brushed it on, I had to make it quite thick and involved a lot of stirring. It worked, a nice thick coating which slowed the evaporation, and left it for a couple of days. I then jet washed it all off. Left it a day to dry. Then sprayed it all with Jenolite rust converter to hit any areas I hadn't reached with the Evaporust. Jet washed that. Let it dry. Any bare metal was sprayed with Rustoleum. Once that was all dry I sprayed everything with Lanoguard. The chassis on a 30 year old 4x4 now looks pristine, and it is all well protected.
Thanking for sharing, this will help me with my phosphoric acid derusting project. My first attempt at making a gel was using ethyl alcohol from hand sanitizer, mixed at 10% . Worked ok. Cheers!
haha I loved this guy as soon as he said he's a cheapskate, a man after my own heart. Great demonstration. Question though, the percentages given, is that weight of volume?
I have used all purpose kid's glue/gel that comes in a gallon jug from Walmart, Hobby Lobby, etc. They also use it for making slime. It's not like Elmer's glue. I have mixed it with muriatic acid to make a brush on rust remover, but I haven't tried it with phosphoric acid yet. It works good though.
Klean strip metal and concrete prep and etch (the green stuff) is available in the US and is at 35-45% phosphoric acid. Just a tip for anyone having a hard time finding the stuff. Also fumed silica is necessary, I tried it with silica gel beads and it did not work even when ground up 😅
@@jon4915 yup. Completely liquid and mildly soapy. Maybe soapy in the way a detergent is soapy. Never got around to trying fumed silica, liquid in a spray bottle more or less did the job. The silica path might be less wasteful if you can find it.
I've tried this also on the Bilt Hamber Deox solution - buying this is in 4kg concentrated dry form (makes 20l at least but can be diluted more to fill larger containters if needed, jsut takes a bit longer to work)is way cheaper than Evaporust , but is basically same product. Using this solution to make a gel is also much cheaper than the cost of buying the ready made deox gel from Bilt Hamber
Great video! You earned a follower! Only thing I would like to add is to wipe with distilled water to neutralize the acid, and spray with any oil, when ready to paint, Degrease with acetone
I like you advice for steps to follow. Particularly the oil layer. I always have trouble getting things panited on the same day as removing the rust. Point of clarification: washing or wiping with water does not neutralize acid, it dilutes it and/or rinses it away.
@@Jamesrdc fosforic acid doesn´t need to be neutralized, cause it´s react with rust forming that black metal. it will not cause rust. like oxalic acid, it reacts with rust, not metal. diferent to muriatic which f*cks everything up and you have to neutralize it.
Evaporust here in the states had this GEL product and I bought a gallon bucket when I decided to be more thorough with my van restoration and do abrasion down to pits then chemically remove. I decided against converter when after covering some back in 2018 with Chassis Saver silver some rust was coming through.. . SO anyway, A gallon is a lot (and it was close to 100 bucks) and because I wasn't doing everything in a straight shot I didn't think much of it sitting in the garage through winter but I didn't use it for anything but chassis vertical or upside down stuff and it did work okay .. dried cleanup is annoying. When I started this season? Opened it up... and of course it was all coagulated with all the liquid around it.. possibly not sealed properly? Or they had their chemistry wrong... ( Evaporust is the greatest safe non acid rust remover though i love it ) So to be fair... after abrading rust on the frame I still would dunk my brush into the liquid and it would still do its job and still stick.. with rust turning black ( they call these removers but they still have phosphoric acid which i thought converted to iron phosphate) ANYWAY ... So that liquid dirtied up pretty quick. I was then finalizing the metal with Rustoleum rust reformer spray ( i enjoy it but I doubt it truly does much to rust but seal it) .. then POR-15 top coat which seems better than Chassis Saver but time will tell.. FINALLY I discovered Jenolite Gel (as im sure you're familiar) .. at least it's a 5 liter so it's more than a gallon evaporust gel. BTW I went to look up Evaporust Gel in the gallon bucket and of course it's discontinued... so they must have had trouble with it hardening up.. I'm hoping the Jenolite has a better formula... I know the product has been around for almost a century in England but maybe the gel is newer but as long as I use what I need this summer I won't have wasted my money... Anyway. So it came today and yes I found it a little funny to see an "exotic" product and mentioning the Ministry of Defense .. Also that it supposedly works in 30 minutes. So first quick test got gloves and respirator on Ive left my welding table outside ( thats zinc coated or galvanized whatever ) It definitel yhad spots that were a bit beyond just flash rust ... put some dabs on each spot and holy shit... Like it literally was going to the pits and already turning those black within minutes... even stripped the coating off the metal. SO then I went to one of my I beams spindle thats been outside same thing... So for my whole project I think this will do... finally some heavy duty shit. Then when its done its job I have Cosmoline RP-342... not sure if youre familiar with that but its basically like a military grade parrafin wax mixture. So far Ive put it on certain components over the POR-15 ( which then its only as good as the paint but it beads water more and obviously will seal any air) so if Jenolite is good enough for the Eiffel tower and Cosmoline good enough for military I hope my van will be re freshed. But it is nice to see how to make it for cheap... hopefully 5 liters is enough but anyway. Thanks for the share.
Use Ospho. It's acid but it's made for rust and bare metal protection. Not just acid from Lowes or HD. I know what you're talking about. I collect old rifles. Some are shipped in Cosmoline. What a pita to get all off. Plus I'm a Grunt Marine so I've fought with Cosmoline a few times. Try this. 1quart of Any Oil new or used, 1 quart of Trans fluid new or used, 1 tube of grease and a wax toilet gasket. Mix all up, heat and get to your liking. Spray, brush pour whatever. You can make this for under $5 with used fluids. I don't like the smell of trans in my interior so I tape up drain holes in doors, hood, trunk and use either melted Vaseline, baby oil, mineral oil. Let set for a day or ? And then let out 1 poece at a time and collect the left over. Use it again in a year. No rust for 25 years. And no reapply every season, year etc. And it's cheap as can be. You can add the cosmoline, I've done it and I've added boiled linseed oil also. It don't ever get dry and hard, it's always there but not running off. Hard to explain. Looks like a almost dry wax, but will take a chisel to scrape off. Pappy told me 35 years ago. He used on all his vehicles, mowers, farm equipment etc. Never replaced a panel ever. If it's already rusty, Ospho or muratic if bad, knock off flakes and chunks and muratic for 10,30 min. Wash off, etc then Ospho then rust proof reciepe. Add or make how you want Nice cause you can add, take away any part, but need some kind of wax, grease, trans. That's the key parts. You can substitute but need all 3 types. I've used old hydraulic oil too. If ever around any equipment, that stuff with grease never rusts and won't come off without a steam Jenny power washer and degreaser, strong degreaser.
Great knowledge you've shared. How long did the formulation completely removed the rust after you applied it? and how long the consistency of viscosity for this formula? Thanks for sharing this amazing video
How long it takes depends very much on how bad the rust is - areas with severe pitting take much longer, and need multiple applications / scrubbing with a wire brush to really get into the pits (have a look at my MGB episode 2 to see it in action). It stays in a consistent gel state for quite a while - it's still perfectly usable after a quick stir after sitting for a couple of weeks. It does slowly start to degrade, I guess the acid reacts with the silica a little bit, but it doesn't go bad as such - just gets runnier and loses some potency.
Thank you for the video. Are you happy with the results? Do you now use the gelled version and wash frames off after or do you stick with the ungelled format? Thank you for any time you may have
I use the gelled stuff for all work on the car. Once it's all bright I wipe off and then wash down with dilute (about 5-10%), unthickened acid on a sponge.
10Kg! How many 100ft boats are you building?! :oD 5% by weight I would say is the minimum ratio for something water-based that you want to support itself on vertical and overhanging surfaces. You could definitely go thicker if needed.
Nice idea. Now I want to try mix fumed sillica with some evaporust and see if that works. On the phosphoric acid note, I was always told and read that you are meant to rinse areas off with water after treating rust / etching steel with it? Is it better to leave it on? I find it leaves a white powdery texture sometimes.
I have found that rinsing it off completely with plain water will allow some areas to flash with rust again, but rinsing with very dilute phosphoric seems to prevent it. I guess most of the time if you wipe down with water, enough of the phosphoric that's on there will end up in your bucket of water that it's no longer just plain water anyway, so it should be fine! Does anyone know what's in Evaporust? Would be interesting to know if it works when gelled, I wonder if it is concentrated enough?
@@funksterdotorgI've heard evaporust is edta (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid), when I use commercial gel rust removers I simply wire wheel after a day or two then wipe the excess off with a rag and use white spirit. I like to follow up with bilt hamber hydrate 80 before epoxy primer 👍
Can't say I know anything about it. Maybe someone with more chemistry knowledge than me can advise on whether it's safe, and if so you could try it and report back!
Hey brother I run a housekeeping manufacturing business in india I'd like to commercialize this product , I tried making it as you said , I mixed 95 gms of phosphoric acid with 5 gm of silica still I haven't got the results right.
I was doing two cars using Evaporust. I was wasting a lot as it was running off all of the chassis components. Not to be beaten I used a fumed silica mix and brushed it on, I had to make it quite thick and involved a lot of stirring. It worked, a nice thick coating which slowed the evaporation, and left it for a couple of days. I then jet washed it all off. Left it a day to dry. Then sprayed it all with Jenolite rust converter to hit any areas I hadn't reached with the Evaporust. Jet washed that. Let it dry. Any bare metal was sprayed with Rustoleum. Once that was all dry I sprayed everything with Lanoguard. The chassis on a 30 year old 4x4 now looks pristine, and it is all well protected.
Thanking for sharing, this will help me with my phosphoric acid derusting project. My first attempt at making a gel was using ethyl alcohol from hand sanitizer, mixed at 10% . Worked ok. Cheers!
haha I loved this guy as soon as he said he's a cheapskate, a man after my own heart. Great demonstration. Question though, the percentages given, is that weight of volume?
Weight, always weight. Imagine trying to measure the volume of a floating powder! :oD
I have used all purpose kid's glue/gel that comes in a gallon jug from Walmart, Hobby Lobby, etc. They also use it for making slime. It's not like Elmer's glue. I have mixed it with muriatic acid to make a brush on rust remover, but I haven't tried it with phosphoric acid yet. It works good though.
Short and sweet! Brilliant! Thanks from Outback Australia...
Klean strip metal and concrete prep and etch (the green stuff) is available in the US and is at 35-45% phosphoric acid. Just a tip for anyone having a hard time finding the stuff. Also fumed silica is necessary, I tried it with silica gel beads and it did not work even when ground up 😅
Is it liquid like regular phosphoric acid?
@@jon4915 yup. Completely liquid and mildly soapy. Maybe soapy in the way a detergent is soapy. Never got around to trying fumed silica, liquid in a spray bottle more or less did the job. The silica path might be less wasteful if you can find it.
Does Klean Strip have some latex-type material in there?
I've tried this also on the Bilt Hamber Deox solution - buying this is in 4kg concentrated dry form (makes 20l at least but can be diluted more to fill larger containters if needed, jsut takes a bit longer to work)is way cheaper than Evaporust , but is basically same product. Using this solution to make a gel is also much cheaper than the cost of buying the ready made deox gel from Bilt Hamber
Sparrows trust generous people! Thanks for the tip!
Great video! You earned a follower!
Only thing I would like to add is to wipe with distilled water to neutralize the acid, and spray with any oil, when ready to paint, Degrease with acetone
I like you advice for steps to follow. Particularly the oil layer. I always have trouble getting things panited on the same day as removing the rust. Point of clarification: washing or wiping with water does not neutralize acid, it dilutes it and/or rinses it away.
@@Mavrik9000 correct but enough water will neutralize. Before it dries. Oil and acetone prior to paint. But awesome! 🙌
no need with fosforic acid, only degrease it.
@@oliverroedel1111what are you talking about bud?
@@Jamesrdc fosforic acid doesn´t need to be neutralized, cause it´s react with rust forming that black metal. it will not cause rust. like oxalic acid, it reacts with rust, not metal. diferent to muriatic which f*cks everything up and you have to neutralize it.
Good job
Please can you write all the chemicals name in
Comment
Evaporust here in the states had this GEL product and I bought a gallon bucket when I decided to be more thorough with my van restoration and do abrasion down to pits then chemically remove. I decided against converter when after covering some back in 2018 with Chassis Saver silver some rust was coming through.. . SO anyway, A gallon is a lot (and it was close to 100 bucks) and because I wasn't doing everything in a straight shot I didn't think much of it sitting in the garage through winter but I didn't use it for anything but chassis vertical or upside down stuff and it did work okay .. dried cleanup is annoying. When I started this season? Opened it up... and of course it was all coagulated with all the liquid around it.. possibly not sealed properly? Or they had their chemistry wrong... ( Evaporust is the greatest safe non acid rust remover though i love it ) So to be fair... after abrading rust on the frame I still would dunk my brush into the liquid and it would still do its job and still stick.. with rust turning black ( they call these removers but they still have phosphoric acid which i thought converted to iron phosphate) ANYWAY ... So that liquid dirtied up pretty quick. I was then finalizing the metal with Rustoleum rust reformer spray ( i enjoy it but I doubt it truly does much to rust but seal it) .. then POR-15 top coat which seems better than Chassis Saver but time will tell.. FINALLY I discovered Jenolite Gel (as im sure you're familiar) .. at least it's a 5 liter so it's more than a gallon evaporust gel. BTW I went to look up Evaporust Gel in the gallon bucket and of course it's discontinued... so they must have had trouble with it hardening up.. I'm hoping the Jenolite has a better formula... I know the product has been around for almost a century in England but maybe the gel is newer but as long as I use what I need this summer I won't have wasted my money... Anyway. So it came today and yes I found it a little funny to see an "exotic" product and mentioning the Ministry of Defense .. Also that it supposedly works in 30 minutes. So first quick test got gloves and respirator on Ive left my welding table outside ( thats zinc coated or galvanized whatever ) It definitel yhad spots that were a bit beyond just flash rust ... put some dabs on each spot and holy shit... Like it literally was going to the pits and already turning those black within minutes... even stripped the coating off the metal. SO then I went to one of my I beams spindle thats been outside same thing... So for my whole project I think this will do... finally some heavy duty shit. Then when its done its job I have Cosmoline RP-342... not sure if youre familiar with that but its basically like a military grade parrafin wax mixture. So far Ive put it on certain components over the POR-15 ( which then its only as good as the paint but it beads water more and obviously will seal any air) so if Jenolite is good enough for the Eiffel tower and Cosmoline good enough for military I hope my van will be re freshed. But it is nice to see how to make it for cheap... hopefully 5 liters is enough but anyway. Thanks for the share.
Use Ospho. It's acid but it's made for rust and bare metal protection. Not just acid from Lowes or HD. I know what you're talking about. I collect old rifles. Some are shipped in Cosmoline. What a pita to get all off. Plus I'm a Grunt Marine so I've fought with Cosmoline a few times. Try this. 1quart of Any Oil new or used, 1 quart of Trans fluid new or used, 1 tube of grease and a wax toilet gasket. Mix all up, heat and get to your liking. Spray, brush pour whatever. You can make this for under $5 with used fluids. I don't like the smell of trans in my interior so I tape up drain holes in doors, hood, trunk and use either melted Vaseline, baby oil, mineral oil. Let set for a day or ? And then let out 1 poece at a time and collect the left over. Use it again in a year. No rust for 25 years. And no reapply every season, year etc. And it's cheap as can be. You can add the cosmoline, I've done it and I've added boiled linseed oil also. It don't ever get dry and hard, it's always there but not running off. Hard to explain. Looks like a almost dry wax, but will take a chisel to scrape off. Pappy told me 35 years ago. He used on all his vehicles, mowers, farm equipment etc. Never replaced a panel ever. If it's already rusty, Ospho or muratic if bad, knock off flakes and chunks and muratic for 10,30 min. Wash off, etc then Ospho then rust proof reciepe. Add or make how you want Nice cause you can add, take away any part, but need some kind of wax, grease, trans. That's the key parts. You can substitute but need all 3 types. I've used old hydraulic oil too. If ever around any equipment, that stuff with grease never rusts and won't come off without a steam Jenny power washer and degreaser, strong degreaser.
Can you cone and help me? Ive got 77 sqm of boat to do. Above me
Nice tech Tipp!!
Thankyou for sharing useful information,from Jawaharlal Bharat INDIA 🙏
Great knowledge you've shared. How long did the formulation completely removed the rust after you applied it? and how long the consistency of viscosity for this formula?
Thanks for sharing this amazing video
How long it takes depends very much on how bad the rust is - areas with severe pitting take much longer, and need multiple applications / scrubbing with a wire brush to really get into the pits (have a look at my MGB episode 2 to see it in action).
It stays in a consistent gel state for quite a while - it's still perfectly usable after a quick stir after sitting for a couple of weeks. It does slowly start to degrade, I guess the acid reacts with the silica a little bit, but it doesn't go bad as such - just gets runnier and loses some potency.
@@funksterdotorg noted this important explanation, and i'm rolling to MGB episode 2 right now.
thankyou, bro
Thank you for the video. Are you happy with the results? Do you now use the gelled version and wash frames off after or do you stick with the ungelled format? Thank you for any time you may have
I use the gelled stuff for all work on the car. Once it's all bright I wipe off and then wash down with dilute (about 5-10%), unthickened acid on a sponge.
Could also use a paper towel soaked in acid.
I did this and the acid turns the paper towels into a gel
@@redsbbwandbbq Ah.
I bought 10kg of that silica to thicken epoxy resin, almost filled a room! 😂
Is 5% silica by weight the maximum ratio?
10Kg! How many 100ft boats are you building?! :oD
5% by weight I would say is the minimum ratio for something water-based that you want to support itself on vertical and overhanging surfaces. You could definitely go thicker if needed.
It was just the one 28’ boat! I’m glad I now have another use for it. 😂
Nice idea. Now I want to try mix fumed sillica with some evaporust and see if that works.
On the phosphoric acid note, I was always told and read that you are meant to rinse areas off with water after treating rust / etching steel with it? Is it better to leave it on? I find it leaves a white powdery texture sometimes.
I have found that rinsing it off completely with plain water will allow some areas to flash with rust again, but rinsing with very dilute phosphoric seems to prevent it. I guess most of the time if you wipe down with water, enough of the phosphoric that's on there will end up in your bucket of water that it's no longer just plain water anyway, so it should be fine!
Does anyone know what's in Evaporust? Would be interesting to know if it works when gelled, I wonder if it is concentrated enough?
@@funksterdotorgI've heard evaporust is edta (ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid), when I use commercial gel rust removers I simply wire wheel after a day or two then wipe the excess off with a rag and use white spirit. I like to follow up with bilt hamber hydrate 80 before epoxy primer 👍
Great idea. Is it this you used to thicken the acid please? amorphous fumed silica. And where did you buy it from please?
Yes that's the stuff. I just got mine from ebay.
Amazon, where else!
bravo 👍👍😎👍👍
Or wall paper "glue" powder.
What about mixing it with sodium polyacrylate instead?
Can't say I know anything about it. Maybe someone with more chemistry knowledge than me can advise on whether it's safe, and if so you could try it and report back!
What are you implying with the holy jar of brown delight? 😜
It's all perfectly innocent I assure you 😄
Hey brother I run a housekeeping manufacturing business in india I'd like to commercialize this product , I tried making it as you said , I mixed 95 gms of phosphoric acid with 5 gm of silica still I haven't got the results right.
This simple recipe is great for DIY use but isn't long-term shelf stable, commercial products contain a lot more stuff that I know nothing about.
What he means, is every product is different, you have to add more silica until you get the consistency you are looking for!!!
Where did you get the phosphoric acid?
I found it on ebay, but I think it was from a swimming pool supplies company so you might have luck at a similar place :o)
Are you saying using gelatin sheets has been a waste of my time?
Depends... if you wish to make a nice panna cotta, then no not at all!
that would be one hellova pannacotta .......
@@funksterdotorg
Do you think this would work with acetone? I want to make a nail polish remover gel.
Hmm, good question... I haven't tried it, but I will do so next time I'm in the garage and will let you know! Chase me for progress if I forget :)
Turns out, yes it does appear to work. I made a short about it: ua-cam.com/users/shorts-Gx9c_-ZPmM
WARNING: the silica will probably make the metal impossible to paint again, unless silicone remover is used.
Why would silicone (a polymer) remover do anything for silica dust?
You just need to wipe the surface down as you normally would before paint.
Silica and silicone are not the same thing. But I applaud your enthusiasm.