Rust - Phosphoric Acid will Stop, Inhibit, Convert, Remove, Prep Metal
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- Опубліковано 24 лис 2015
- Shows solutions to rust with products to convert and arrest rust on metal pieces, leaving a primed surface for painting. Phosphoric acid will atop, inhibit, convert, remove, even prepare metal for painting.
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This is great information for anything metal including our vehicles! Thanks for sharing!
very good and impressive demonstration, thank you
Great demonstration
I would apply 40% thick(ish) coat with a brush. Then wash it away (with a pressure washer), let it dry and spray with 20% mix. Once thoroughly dried, paint over with a (zinc phosphate) primer.
Great tip! Excellent video, straight to the point.
I love that stuff. Oil based primer never killed the rust for me like this. Blair
That's awesome thank you from Florida, kind sir!!! 👍🏼👍🏼
Glad to help, Blair and Tim
Thank you for an excellent video! Carry On Sir!
Thank you so much for making this video. I hope I can find this stuff at Walmart or Lowes...
thanks for the video, very helpful!
Thanks for sharing. I have some of my Dad's and Grandpa's old tools. I can restore them now! I think of them every time I use those old tools.
I wish I had some of my fathers old tools.
Thank you.
Thank You!
super helpful thank you !!
Great video it was nice talking to you a couple weeks ago when I came in for the screen door rollers
+scott riney
Nice seeing you, thanks
Mr. Hardware hi does this work on cars without damaging existing paint work?
Thanks
@@paperman9708 I've used it and had no issues. Epoxy and urethane. Gotta neutralize with water or that and Baking soda. Be fine.
dope video, thank you much
That black coating is actually a more stable version of rust (it has an extra oxygen atom).
Great video. Thanks Mr.Hardware. Is it a special kind of paint you use when the phosphoric acid has dried ? Or is it a clear coat ?
I use any good quality oil-based paint. An exterior varnish should work also.
Very helpful
Sheeze-a-nut looking so nice
Great video, & I have a question. This is probably a dumb question, but can you sand that afterward & get it shiny? Thank you. I've heard of Ospho. I've had a little rust problem on the roof of my truck. This is probably the way to go from what I've seen so far. Thanks
Of course, if there is any rust residue I re-apply the ospho and rinse off any excess a few hours later.
Thank you for his video, I have never used plastic steel wool, is there a v=brand you recumbent and what grid do you use ?
We use several brands, the most common is a scotch pad. I use medium to coarse depending on the amount of rust.
You can buy a box of purple and the fine grey at any paint n body shop.
Very informative video. I am planning on using it for undercoating my truck. Do you think I can spray on CRC inhibitor after it does its thing. Also any problems with rubber or plastic? Thank you
Plastic is safe, rubber I would limit the exposure time. I would use oil based paint before I would use CRC.
it probably won't help with undercoating. did you ever try it
Would this be a surefire way of protecting and ensuring a rust-free surface _after_ using more aggressive methods such as media blasting or dustless blasting? Can imagine this would really prolong the life of a steel boat hull after first removing the thick layer of rust, along with compatible paint, given that it not only protects but would also get any fly rust and would apply its magic to any missed pits or dents.
Yes, in fact if that's how you intend to use it, you can mix the acid 50/50 with water first, then rub it onto the metal, then rinse it clean with water (and mild detergent if desired, but not necessary). It actually mentions this in the instructions on the back of the bottle for many phosphoric acid rust removers. This diluted 50/50 acid/water-then-rinse step is recommended to help bond base coats of paint after washing the item with soapy water if needed, followed by a full-concentration treatment with the acid to ensure all rust, oil, dirt and grease is removed.
@@allmycarsisbroke so use the 50/50, then wash, then full power then wash then prime or paint a fender? Or door etc? Ppl say don't use it the paint won't stick. Well alot of company's use acid to get metal to paint so why not me or whoever? Thank you. I have some Ospho and it has directions for oil based paint but not epoxy or urethane.
@@allmycarsisbroke i just apky and leave never clean wuth water, sometimes paint over it sometimes not..
@@kurkkobain interesting. I don't have any experience painting over after allowing undiluted, non-neutralized acid to dry and not rinsing, but I have read a lot of comments from others saying that doing so tends to create problems later with the paint bubbling. You haven't had that problem? What kind of paints and primers are you using? Are you sanding before painting? Etc.
A proper restoration would involve removing the wood handle so all the metal can be treated, as well as cleaning up the handle and coating it with boiled linseed oil. After treating the metal, it can be coated with any kind of auto wax then wiped clean.
What do I do if using epoxy or urethane paint and not oil based?? Like painting cars Thank you
Automotive finishes can be tricky, first test a small area.
The metal gets a black coating on it are you supposed to paint over that or rise it off first and then paint over
When I painted my seawall cap, which had been painted before, and had some paint here and there, I had to rinse the phosphoric acid off the painted areas because it remain tacky. It dried in an hour, and I was able to get a nice coat of oil based enamel over the top.
hi would using phosphoric acid clean up the rust on car body panels and parts
Of course, rust can be removed off any steel that I'm aware of.
Does Klean Strip Concrete & Metal Prep leave behind some latex or acrylic coating? Is there a rust converter that only uses acid? Seems like some latex coating will negate the ability to use a primer. Ultimately, you're limited to the adhesion of that latex or acrylic.
I’ve never used this particular product although it looks pretty much the same as everything else I’ve used. I’m old-school, so I still recommend prep be covered with oil base paint first or an oil base primer and then you can put latex on top of that, if desired.
@@MrHardware1Concern is that an oil based primer doesn't help very much if you're limited by whatever smoo they might have put in the converter (perhaps to avoid flash rust). I asked Klean Strip directly so we'll see what they say.
@@wildmanofborneo I bet it’s dilute phosphoric acid w/no important ingredients. That’s what’s in the commercial brand I used on my steel seawall 20 years ago. It softens the rust and sucks out the oxygen so when painted there is no oxidation (live rust) going on underneath. I’ve cut it w/distilled water to use in a tank sprayer when doing large areas that I still maintain and with great results.
I've successfully used Ospho in a number of applications and have been very happy with it.
Recently, I've wondered about using it to pretreat concrete rebar. Do you have any experience with this or know anything about the long-term benefits in such an application?
It would be helpful if there was a film of rust on the bar. Sorry I cannot speak about the long term results of encasing steel in cement but I feel it wouldn't hurt. A quick coat of any enamel paint, even thinned would really help. Blair
Like he said set the ends in a salty bucket and let it rust. Says on the bottle it can be used to protect clean iron after sanding, grinding, sandblasting etc. Look it up and read the label. From my direction it looks like it will work
Thats a pretty slick idea. Get a tube, or split a piece of capped PVC, fill with PA and soak your rebar in it. Then, maybe coat it with an elastomeric paint or other rubberized coating. A bit of work, however still probably a lot cheaper than galvanized,FRP or stainless.
I live in Thailand, we can't buy the products easily here but I can buy the acid on its own. Any ideas what I would add to the acid to help it bond?
I bet the phosphoric needs to be diluted to a certain ratio. It doesn’t need anything to help it bond, it cleans, removes oxygen and is the prep for the finish which I prefer to be an oil-based paint.
With these products work on an iron railing?
It should work great, I always use it on steel but the goal is to remove oxygen to stop the rust. Iron has oxygen also.
don't ruin perfectly good patina with black spray paint. use clear coat or wax.
Or boiled linseed oil or shellac.
What about coat of rust protector instead of oil based paint?
I don't see why not... if it will wear as well.
Nice video just one question. You don't have to neutralize the acid ?? Before primer or paint?? Thank you
+titan371
No, once the acid is dry, short of excess powder, the metal is ready for paint.
@@MrHardware1 even for epoxy or urethane? Hope u still answer.
@@kitjasabsgabs1830 I don’t see why not. Usually I paint exterior metal w/oil based paint. I don’t see why epoxy and urethane would be different although before I committed to a big project I would test a small area first.
@@MrHardware1 Oil is fine but for epoxy it's not so good. Idk about urethane or enamel as I always just shoot epoxy over the converted metal. Thank you. Have a great day sir. Semper Fi
@@kitjasabsgabs1830 Thank you, and thanks for your service.
Why does it have to be oil based paint? Can I use rustoleum enamel paint?
Rustoleum is oil based. Perfect.
Aahxygeen..... oxygen. This guys accent is awesome braaaah.
AAAAxe-a-gin! I love it
"A piece of grandpa lives on!" Thanks.
my garage doors is rusty, but a lot of the rust is underneath a layer of paint (pretty sure its latex) and looks like bubbles in the paint. will this work though the paint?
no. it will only work on exposed metal. Sand back the affected area, get rid of scale-y rust and then apply the product, then primer then paint
@@n2i1k2o1l2a Thanks. Sanding doesn't work so well on this latext paint. I found that I can use a 4" razor scraper to chip away the paint bubbles quite well.
@@cslloyd1 My favorite tool for the job is a paint and rust removing wheel that goes on a drill. I think Norton makes them now, the old brand is discontinued or I would send a link. Like a plastic steel wool pad for a drill.
@@MrHardware1 ok, thanks. I see some nylon abrasive wheels at HarborFreight. I am also considering one of their $20 sand blaster. I live on the beach in Florida, so plenty of sand available.
Did you just mix those half and 1/2 with that big green jug with the must for rust bottle
Yes, that product when sprayed on as liberally as I did is allowed to be cut 50% with water.
What's your opinion on having to neutralize it with water before you paint
I’ve used water to remove excess product from the surface but most the time when I use it I don’t. I’ll let it dry and I paint over it with an oil base paint.
When treating, I'm getting white powder on the metal afterwards unless i wash it off immediately but as a result, the steel will flash rust. Any advice?
I’ve found the white powder to be when an excess of ospho, I’ve never seen flash rust rinsing off excess w/ water. If so I’d wipe a little more ospho on it and wipe off.
@MrHardware1 Your correct, the white powder was more noticeable when applying a heavy layer of phosphoric acid. The good news, it wipes off fairly easy.
I believe I would not have painted it. Just use the acid; wipe it down; wash it; leave.
Certainly not a gloss black. Maybe, a flat or satin grey. Naaaaa, leave it natural.
But, thanks for the lesson on how to use the phosphoric acid.
If its just being used for display I can understand the paint, but I agree. I'd probably coat it with something like boiled linseed oil or something like that.
i just paint and leave
Can you use it on car rust?
Exactly, rinse any excess off painted surfaces
I did underside my Jeep. Can i leave those white residue there?? Or all white residue has to come out??
I found it to be harmless. You may rinse it off w water
@@MrHardware1 It does not come out with water even ah high pressure from garden hose 55 psi. If that is phosphoric acid, i dont think is non poison. ???
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 what ever residue I have had , if it doesn’t rinse off, w/ regular water pressure, has not prevented my paint from bonding. Poison, yes. Don’t consume or breathe any.
@@MrHardware1 Thanks. Excuse me, i have to go vomit phosphoric acid now. I consumed too much today. LOL..
you must be using it very concentated or waht? i just aplly rust turn black and a leave that way, bçlacxk cant see any white there,,
How do you get rid of the white residue? I washed it off with water but it’s not coming off
Reapply Ospho or whatever, let sit for 5 min, wash with water and scuff pad and dry with air or heat. Prime and paint or just paint.
aAren't you supposed to rinse it off with water after a few minutes? I had a very old bottle of the stuff that said so on the label.
My bottle says when dry to dust off any powder before painting. It does say when used to etch galvanized metal, which is hard to paint when it’s new, to rinse off after you’ve etched the galvanized.
i used for s lond in never rinse it, its not a acid anymore so what rinse yo have to rinse muriatic not this.
can i use it to take the rust from my body, ?
i have 96 years old and i feel rusty...
Not if you want to see 97….
If I want to spray on a oil based truck bed coating to freshly etched metal using phosphoric acid, would I need to remove the acid for better adhesion? The directions for the truck bed coating says bare metal works best. But I don't see why the acid wouldn't help it stick better, just like the paint?
To me, the importance is killing the rust. I have not found the residue to hurt the adhesion of an oil based paint yet.
@@MrHardware1
Other than removing the white residue I have found you still need to scuff the metal with a scotch bright to a smooth finish, unless you plan on many layers of paint to coat the metal, unless the surface is even it will show in your paint.
The darkened layer is the acid left over, it takes a fair amount of effort to strip it back down to the bare metal.
@@lordterra1377 I thought dark is where the rust was chemically changed to phosphate and can't rust no more? If I sand it off that cancels out the reason for use? How about if I neutralize the acid with water or baking soda? No more acid to react with anything after that and paint with epoxy? Etching primers have acid in them and you primer and paint over them.
I have pure phosphorus acid. But what the HELL is used as a base/carrier to prime n convert. Otherwise my steel turns white. If you've ever used ", rust converter". It turns BLACK! What do I mix it with???
I have diluted it w water when coating 200’ if steel seawall. I removed white residue w water on a rag then dried off.
I want to thank all you Yankees that have NOT moved to Texas or the south. I love Yankees that stay up north.
👍👍👍
Don't you have to neutralize with baking soda?
No, excess can be removed w/water. Once dry it is stable and unless there is excess film it is ready for paint.
What percentage is the acid wash ? 30-99 percent
Straight from the bottle.
derusting inside of a fuel tank would be more challenging, because how to ruboff phosphoric acid remains
They make a special cleaner, sealer, coating for gas tanks. Sorry out of Blair-land. ;0}
Plastic steel wool??
A Scotchpad is an example.
Acid-based🤔
Total different process in automotive..The ONLY acid cleaners SPI recommends is Opsho, PPG and DuPont metal preps as long as their instructions are followed to a tee.
Use any other system you want, just do us a favor and use no SPI over them.
There can be NO shortcuts for good results.
Ospho, is a great product for automotive if used right, we give scare warnings because we want people to call so we can make sure they know how to neutralize it, so no problems will arise.
Only one way to use and here it is:
Use as needed and apply as many times as needed to get the spot Clean let dry and leave for months if you want, don’t matter.
To neutralize the Ospho MUST be wet, so if dry, re-wet with itself and let set one or two minutes and with a clean rag and water, wipe off like washing the car and then dry.
Next, then da car with 80 grit, clean with 700-1 wax and grease remover, let set an hour and coat with an epoxy. Notes of interest (maybe)
If you try and sand dry film off you will lose 40-60% adhesion (per adhesion tester as some will embed itself in metal and amount depends on how long the Ospho has been on panel as we do know acid films degrade with time but due to many factors we cannot pinpoint a time frame.
The tape is not a test, use razor scraper after 7 How does it fail? Here are a few calls.
Washing car and hose bounced up, hit car and paint bubbled. Kids finished ball game and ran by car and tossed ball gloves on hood, next day two big bubbles.
Wife got bag out of trunk, closed trunk and set bag on truck to play with keys, next day a bubble there.
My FAVORITE TECH CALL at least once a month, my body filler dried and sanded great but Then I got to metal is was gummy, DO I HAVE A BAD HARDENER? Nope only one thing, you applied it over an acid film..
Wow, thanks for all the tips. Who is SPI, I can’t find who you work for, just out of curiosity. Blair
Like phosphoric acid that is found in Coke?
I can’t say, but it does clean a few household projects.
Why not actually remove the rust with muriatic acid, then neutralize with baking soda and water, then treat with phosphoric to convert and seal the remaining rust?
I don’t like to put muriatic acid in an amateur’s hands. Besides the phosphoric acid does loosen and clean most of the rust while priming the metal.
@@MrHardware1 Understand the concern. It might be a hazard in confined spaces or underneath the car. I like that muriatic eliminates all rust, but it does need to be neutralized before it eats into the steel.
Hi I like how you tell the truth about way to remove rust to prevent new rust use car wax .. I subscribed check out the other ways to remove rust on youtube
Thanks, Blair
After I used phosphoric acid Iit turned yellow after I washed it off sprayed it will acid again didnt wash it off it turned white and oily
I’ve never seen it create an oily surface. Is it a phosphoric acid for Rust cleaning or just the pure product? I would think, without knowing for sure, that it should rinse off with water and dry hard so it can be painted.
@@MrHardware1 85 percent technical grade I diluted it 4 to 1 with water the trick is to actually get a rag and wipe it not just spray the rust off perfect bare metal finish now even after the morning dew
I clicked on this because the title said "Phosphoric acid".
Rather than a phosphoric acid-BASED product, have you tried using just phosphoric acid by itself?
(the stuff can be bought plain, so i was thinking about trying that option on some rusty metal; but if someone has already tried it and had bad results, I won't bother with the plain stuff)
I can’t say, but I’m interested. Is it easy to purchase?
@@MrHardware1 probably . ama zon claims to have it, but when i posted the link to it here it wouldn't post.
I saw it listed at 10% and at 75%. was considering getting the 75
@@bledlbledlbledl I’ve had such good results from ‘store bought’ Skyco Ospho that I never desired something stronger. If I were trying to do a very large area I might consider something stronger so I could dilute it to save $$. I also like to patronize local merchants over mail order. I want my merchants here to stay.
@@MrHardware1 for the price, I'll probably go with that, then. (i looked up the percentages of ingredients just now, and i get more phosphoric acid for the money with the ospho anyway)
Who ever did the editing for this video,,don't quit your day job...holy shit it's tough to watch with the video cutting out every few seconds
We are working on upgrading our editing software, sorrry.
i thought it was good man. honestly.
Editing in this video is great, jump cuts hold your attention. If this was a 5 minute video with no cuts you'd fall asleep, def don't change a thing, the cuts makes this video great
@@MrHardware1 Don't listen. It was entertaining! Thanks for posting this and keep up the good work my friend!
Tie Domi feeding you uppies until you cant stand up anymore is what I wish had happened to you immediately after your comment. On a video of a dude just throwing some free info out. you managed to be an ingrate douchebag co**su**** worthless piece of shi* all in one one needless comment. Way to go twat.
The cuts are too much
🤷♂️🤦♂️
Just use hydrochloric/muriatic acid the rust will be gone in seconds but you have to neutralize it after the process with soda-water solution and rinse it well with water. So much faster and better than phosphoric acid.
The problem w/muriatic acid is it more dangerous than phosphoric. I recommend it to customers that have experience, not to newbies. Thanks Blair
Hcl and muri continue for weeks months. It will continue to break down
@@bigtxbullion not if neutralized. That chemically stops the reaction, no reaction no breakdown. In 60s they'd dip whole cars in acid to thin metal and make them lighter. So you are right but if you stop the reaction it'll be fine. They used a soda mixture.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING beats phosphoric acid as a 1) Rust remover, 2) Rust converter and 3) Primer. As stated, works by pulling oxygen out of iron oxide (ie. rust) and converts it into passive iron phosphate (black/grey). Needs to be at least 20% phosphoric acid mixed with water. Heat speeds up the process dramatically. To put it another way, in cold nothing much happens. You can thicken it with (pink) wall paper adhesive powder to apply a thick(ish) coat with a brush.
Thanks, great idea with the thickening trick.
Man... This was going good until you pulled out the spray paint and painted that saw. Sinful in so many ways!
you have to paint it or oil it. it is super stripped after the acid and will rust up real quick
yeah but that stuff is really expensive... i wonder if coca cola would work
+PC5032
I did my boat trailer, a chocolate mess of rust. It was leaving a shadow of rust on my driveway. I sprayed it with half a bottle, $14.99 a quart, painted it with Valspar Industrial Oil Based enamel, 12 years ago and it still looks great. It was my only primer, I find that as inexpensive and any other primer.
+Blair Gilbert good testimonial. ill have to get some. I've been using electrolysis and Evaporust, and then Rustoleum Rust Converter as my primer. Also not really cheap either.
+PC5032
I only use one of any of those products at a time. Must For Rust is the one I usually use.
will cola remove the oxidation from the metal? I don't know, Blair
I found lemon juice concentrate works almost as good as Evaporust... and you can buy lemon juice with freaking Food Stamps. Can't beat that for price!
Leave your part in lemon juice 24 hours, or overnight. Scrub with an old tooth brush, wash off rust , put back in if you need more. When lemon juice wont get any more off (the very last deep pitted stuff) wash the part and drop it in phosphoric acid prep and etch to get the last bit off and prep the metal for priming. Phosphoric acid is even stronger than lemon juice, but you actually have to buy that at home depot.
Please find a new videographer...