What I think is missing in much of the more international discussion is this: the discussion in Germany is heavily focused on the ethical side of things. That whole elaborate system that was created to lure in young and often inexperienced women and that put these women in uncomfortable and dangerous situations, putting a lot of pressure on them. It's a discussion about power imbalances and it's confirmed at this point that that syatem existed. Even if it's not illegal, it's morally VERY questionable. Things were bubbling up since a few years anyway around Lindemann's projects, but they didn't get much traction. Now it just blew up, but it's nothing new tbh. I for one am disgusted by Lindemann's behaviour regarding the system he created and how he handles the allegations now (with his lawyers doing the exact opposite of what the band said in an official statement). Was there something that he can legally be punished for? Idk, we will see. The vast majority of SA cases are dropped unfortunately because it's so difficult to prove something. To all the people crying about fake allegations: they are rare. As a guy you are more likely to not be punished even if you actually assaulted someone than to get false allegations. Police often does not take victims seriously either. Women who spoke about their experience with Lindemann openly received a lot of death threats. So it's no wonder most remain anonymous. Btw, just because they are anonymous to the public does not mean that they are anonymous to the police. So we don't know what's exactly going on rn. But as I said, the system and how it generally worked is confirmed at this point and for me it's definitely morally wrong, even if it ends up being legally okay. So I'm done with Rammstein and that's it. In the end, everyone has to decide what they personally find ok and what not.
Great video and yes, Feli is amazing! I've been following her channel even before it changed names and had to rebrand. Thank you for making this video, it's important to clarify this type of issues\incidents and the music industry.
i need to double down on the shout out to Feli from Germany's channel. she does great stuff & even though i still don't speak German, her videos (along with Rammstein songs & old WWII movies have helped me either pick up or understand words in German). if anyone is remotely interested in learning the language, her vids are a must add to your playlist. not to mention her video on this particular topic is extremely thorough & well put together. big shout out to Feli
I found her through Radical Living also in English but is mostly about Berlin. There are Brits and people from the USA speaking about life in Germany if they went there to study German or work.
Yeah, "Feli"'s done a marvellous job ... ^^ ... a marvellous propaganda-supportservice-job for the left-identitarian, woke and feministic infested german media-machine. Everything You need to know ... Shame on 'Feli'. She's no German!
Feli spread Shelbys fake story days after it was offially refuted. She also didn't do any investigation on her own, because if she did, she would have known, that there have been multiple witnesses form the beginning, calling Shelby out for her lies. Also she gave a platform to Kayla and her video, which did massive damage to Lindemann, although nothing at all ever happened to her. She has actually never even met him, but every German has heard of that video and just assumes, she'd be a victim, due to the media making it look that way. There's many issues with Kayla tbh. She publicly says, she d sell her soul for money. She likes to drop the n-bomb. She sexualizes herself like no one I ve ever seen and was (or maybe still is) a testimonial for a porn platform, which is ok, but this makes her indignation about a guy who might see her as a sexual being just ridiculous. I m personally very disappointed by Feli! I d go as far as to say it was a crime, that she released it, without even mentioning all the new informations, that have been out in the public by the time she put it up on UA-cam.
this shit happens everywhere all the time, unfortunately. In 2012, for instance, my then-wife and I went to a Star Wars convention at the local science museum. It was an afterhours event for adults and alcohol was being served. Anyway, she ordered a long island iced tea, and we went around taking pictures with people in costume, talking with folks, you know whatever. well, she took maybe three sips of that shit and was like "dude. this is gross." and i was like "no shit! it's a long island iced tea!" she was like "do you want it?" and i said "not really BUT it was $10 so i'll drink it." once i got to the bottom of the cup, there was a little ball of white material in the bottom of the clear plastic cup that i picked out and mashed between my fingers, where it turned to powder. i was like "oh great" and i started losing vision about 15 minutes later and i also became incredibly intoxicated. i've taken a lot of drugs in my life (10 years clean, though this was not the situation that lead me to stop using hard drugs)...anyway this definitely felt like i had taken a couple of xanax bars or a similar sedative. we called the museum to warn the other people at the convention of what had happened, got no answer, and left a message which was never responded to. i am 100% convinced that someone tried to drug her that night and i ended up drinking the shit, thankfully. it was really scary. we had felt safe at what was literally a fucking nerd convention but someone there was a total asshat. don't set your drinks down anywhere in public, folks. and i hate to say it, but, don't trust people in crowds.
@zzz-222i I didn't even know about "incel culture" back then but ever since the term became popular, i would think of that convention every time "incels" were brought up. i doubt anyone was even trying to r@pe her when this happened but i can bet they were a self-identified "incel" who did this shit just to be an asshole because she was hot.
Tills investigation has been dropped because aside from the accusation that people around him got girls to his parties, nothing withstood the investigations. Apparently he didnt rape or drug women. Why? because when looked closely, nobody directly even accused him of that.
As a side note to the Berlin Investigation: In Germany, the prosecutors are required by law to start an investigation once they hear about a possible criminal offense, without an actual accusor being required (no need for a "Strafantrag", so a request for punishment). The "accusor" in this case are the german people as a whole, as prosecuting criminal offenders is considered to be in the interest of all german people - which in my opinion only makes sense.
@YBM2007 why though? The only "similarity" is that it's both somehow about a legal investigation. For me, it feels like you want to tell me the investigations are unjust in an pseudo-intellectual way. Please correct me if I'm wrong
The thing that I found depressing as well is, the very second I heard about this, I was like, "Rammstein? Oh yeah, I totally believe they've done it." Same way I felt about Marylin Manson, though he settled out of court, so can't really say if that's, you know, NOT a crime. I'm not saying I don't like Rammstein's music - I'm saying when everything you do as a band - from making many songs about sex or selling a special edition of an album with dildos and handcuffs included, I don't think "Oh, they're so sex positive!" I think "yeah this'll probably come up later in their careers." I'm not saying Lindemann did anything, or that he didn't, I'm saying it's very easy for me to believe.
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 Hey, I said it's easy to BELIEVE they did it. Doesn't mean I think they did or endorse the idea. Also, as this very video mentions, sexualized behavior and bands kinda' go hand-in-hand. The idea that "nobody will ever go too far" is outlandish, so rather than be ultra defensive when news comes out like "band member may have committed sexual misconduct," I just go, "Well, that sucks. We'll see what happens." Also, because I think it's funny, I REALLY want to bring up Cannibal Corpse...
I watched the Feli from Germany video on Till Lindemann and Rammstein and the allegations. You are right she did a great job on her video and covered a lot of information. The women attending these gatherings can dress as scantily as they want and should be able to still feel safe. Going to an after party is way different than going to someone's hotel room. Even in the hotel room No should still count. Show business is such a shady environment.
Great way to cover the topic, still staying objective and giving interpretations. That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigators might or might not find. Giving opinions does not help finding the truth.
"That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigations might or might not find." Then why are you clapping for this video with that stupid "Great way to cover the topic , still staying objective and giving interpretations", which deciphered means: blabbering like anystupidelse does ... You moron ... :)
Unpopular opinion: Just because "it's always happened" or "they knew what they were there for" doesn't mean that these sorts of power dynamic experiences aren't predatory and shouldn't be illegal. It's 2023 and the industry needs to do better in my honest opinion.
@@Zennofobic I don't think that wanting people to be safe and desiring everyone to enjoy music equally is naïve, idealistic maybe. Maybe it was "built into us as a species" at the beginning of our evolution, but we're Neanderthals or Denisovans anymore, we can do better going forward.
@@Bunstonious Not that easily. It's still built in, whether we like it or not. Same way we still have other "features" that became more of a hindrance than help in a modern industrial world, like putting on weight when an abundance of food is available or being built for more movement than is feasible in an office job. It's not simply a matter of deciding to not follow that anymore. You have to actively struggle against your own nature.
But how do meassure the power dynamic? Someone i love or am realy attracted to does without a doubt more power over me then someone that i don't like. Does that mean that i can't be with someone i like, because i would be happy to do stuff with them because i like them?
I was very impressed with how Feli broke down this story in great detail, especially since she doesn't usually cover very serious topics like this. I was surprised with how much detail there was that we wouldn't have necessarily gotten as Non-German speakers.
Even if all of the most serious allegations are false, I think the system of recruiting so many very young women in sort of an assembly line is not where we should be in 2023. It sounds like a lot of that system has been shut down by the band, which I guess is some sort of progress. But I think there is more investigation by the authorities needed.
Till is innocent...as a german female fan since 20 years i felt that he is very quiet and auf.. i was on 5 Rammstein shows and hes a very good actor in stage not behind ❤ Ive never heard from Kayla shyx cause i dont believe in influencers...😅😅😂
same, I find it VERY disturbing. Like women who go backstage are meat. No, a lot of bands treat their fans respectful. Not only groupies go back stage, also the die hard fans. I went back stage with Anthrax and we had a blast. Nothing sexual. There are ofcourse bands who are into that stuff. But NO means NO. Also back stage. I am not refering to this case, just in general.
@@monicacarolina6480 I mean, how many of these diehard superfans are guys going backstage with the band? Legitimate question, I have no idea. But if you're looking at a 9/10 ratio of girls, I'm going to say while tank's right that you should never have to enter a place under the assumption that it's going to be unsafe and dangerous, if I enter a BDSM club, I enter knowing I'm likely to have my sensibilities offended. Not a 1 to 1 comparison, but you get my drift.
@@humblekek-fearingman7238 That's a bit of an odd comparison. You know what happens in a BDSM club and if you don't like BDSM, why would you enter it? And BDSM is big on SSC (safe, sane, consensual). Meanwhile, going backstage... there's no sign there that says "sex from this point". People can go backstage for all kinds of reasons. Wanting to meet their idols does not equate to wanting to fuck those idols. And if anyone wants to engage in anything sexual, they need to ask for consent first. Going backstage is not consent. There's probably guys going backstage too, people just prefer to look at women who do it because, yes, there's a big undercurrent of misogyny in this debate. Or not so under... some people in this comment section are proof of how bad it gets, acting as if going backstage is in itself consent to sex. This may just be my neurodivergency, but if a band I liked asked me to go backstage, I would not immediately think of sex? I'd want to talk shop with them because I love creative work. This idea that "everyone knows what going backstage means" is really inaccurate and just further maligns women who come forward about having been abused. And it's this bad for the women who have been abused. I can only imagine how hard it is for the men who have been abused. Because that absolutely happens too. There's just something very sick in the concert industry that we need to contend with. Everyone deserves to be safe.
@@monicacarolina6480 Oh yeah, most of them just like to be admired and to not feel isolated from their audience. If everyone is having a blast in the audience and you're sitting alone backstage, that can feel lonely. I've literally sat with the bassist of one of my favourite bands for hours while he talked about his wife's cancer diagnosis. Touring is tough, even if it is a lot of fun.
@@TheYasmineFlower YES thank you, I don't like the double standards of that, I want to be treated like a human being regardless of my gender, there's several girls and people in general that want to go backstage and to after parties with their significant other or just because they're fans and want to engage in a convo, not everything is about sex! same, i am also neurodivergent and i don't get the "read between lines", people have to be clear with their intentions if they're gonna engage in sexual activity, the consent has to be explicit and not just expect someone to know that they're going into
The authorities in Lithuania have stopped their investigatinons, but actually the German authorities have been investigating Till for some time now and they are continuing to do that. Sadly: I think it does not matter what they will find out at this point, as much of the damage to the reputation of the band has already been done.
I agree. It's important for everyone to remember that the Berlin investigation is solely based on third party accounts and stories from people online (per Till's lawyer's statement), and not from people coming forward and filing reports. But I believe you're right in saying a lot of the damage to the reputation of the band has been done. (I know this video isn't live yet, but as you'll see, I think we all need to just let everything play out and see where it goes from here.)
Is it ethically to tell a bad story about another person, without any proof? There is a german sentence "Wash me, but don't make me wet", which always comes to my mind, when people dress up and visit special events (men as well as women) and than later say: "I didn't want what happened there."
An old neighbor said several times "Profit from disaster." With the controversy, Rammstein has several albums that re-entered the German Top 100 Charts.
Accurate statement to bring up. Look what happened to Morgan Wallen. Dude was on the verge of being fully cancelled and now he’s the #1 country artist on the planet.
Nowadays album sales are very low compared to 80s or 90s, so entering charts does not mean anything. An album with a few thousand copies sold can be #1 in most of countries.
Said it since it came out Till did nothing wrong. Justice was served. When the main accused person puts "the person that was drugged at a Rammstein concert" in her bio I knew it was BS
They can't do shit about Kayla's video. All she did was describe her experiences. There's a german lawyer channel similar to legal eagle i guess called wbs legal and the dude went over it and basically said that as long as she's describing what she has seen there's nothing to sue over.
Thats not exactly what he said. He said she does not have to sue TL, because laywers will do that automatically for her and all the other ones. Laywers have to investigate to make sure no crime took place. All the statements / chats / and events happening over time are / were investigated by media, and now laywers.
That's not going to stop lawyers from trying to bully someone in to doing what they want. Threats and legal costs can be just as prohibitive as actual legal judgements.
@@robertstull8759 Read up on the UK defamation laws, they exist for a reason and I'm confident these allegations will end up in a UK court post-investigation
Shelby never Claimed, that Till raped her or those bruises came from him! The only Claim was that she was drugged at the Rammstein Concert probably by Till! So i don't know what Tills Lawyers talk about! And why do many Women go to the Public instead of the Police? Well because Victim Blaming still happen like hell even here in freaking Germany! Especially if we talk about sexual harassment and or Stalking! I know 2 cases from my close friends! Both been raped! But because they go to the police a couple days later than the incident because they are in fucking shock. No evidence could be charged! Words again Words! I know 3 cases of Rape Drugs and only 1 of it was actually filled by the police but still was useless in the End because not enough evidence! Yes she was druged but we dont know more so case dropped! So no surprise that Victims rarely going to the police/Lawyer at first and lets not forget a lawsuit is expensive!
"they should know better" we are talking about young women, some barely 18... being naive is not an excuse for the alleged shit, that is called "victim blaming" and is in the category of "look how she is dressed" as an excuse for rape... and even if Till is innocent, having a set up that makes people this uncomfortable is a falure of his (and his staff) and not of the girls. also if those allegations are true, they are activly lied to and heavily pressured, young people are fairly easily scared in those situations, hell, even older people are. thats why legally it counts as rape (in most western countries) to pressure someone to perform sexual acts.
something I mentioned on Feli's video: let's pretend for a second that the things alleged to be happening actually are. Mentioned are groups of 8-10 women, contacted before the show, told what to wear, all of whom being drugged. sex acts under the stage, before the show, then during the after-party... that's claiming one man is having 12 sexual encounters within FOUR hours? that right there is enough to put serious doubt in my mind, and sure maybe he's not "finishing" with all of them, but still that's assuming he's "finishing" with at least 2, one right before going on stage? and then your left with the rest of those women drugged for no reason, and an entire team of people who are all in on it, not all of him actually work for the band: claims of security being told to watch out for potential victims... that's a lot of places where that can all all go wrong, too elaborate, to many people involved, and because of that something like this would have been exposed looooong ago.
From watching Feli's video carefully and reading the messages she put on the screen, it is alleged that he picks out one or two of the girls for sex. Kind of like picking the ones he liked best out of a line up. Also, I don't think anyone said that he was doing ALL of these sex acts every show. There are plenty of cases where multiple people are involved with enabling the sort or behaviour in the accusations here. For example, all the people around Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislane Maxwell (not that I'm comparing Till to Jeffrey epstein - it's just an example to show it's not impossible for multiple people to be involved for a long time without it becoming common knowledge). I don't think the accusations are implausible on the grounds you are stating.
If Lindemann is guilty or not will be of course decided by a court (if it comes so far). But I am afraid it is a very difficult situation, because KO drugs are only traceable for 12 hours after the intake and to figure out what happened in rooms behind the stage will be also probably impossible to assess. That being said: Lindemann has all the resources to have a big Rammstein fetish/sex party after the concert. Nonetheless he decided to employ people like Makeeva, who recruited girls for him from the concerts (but also other places). And apparently transparency was really not important while doing so, but more his power position, which he (ab-)used for it. Yes, its not illegal, but he really doesnt get any brownie points in my eyes for pulling off such crap to say the least. Quite the opposite...
Yeah, if you have the chance to legally get lots of women who want to have sex with you, then why do you create such a system? That’s highly problematic from my point of view.
1:55 wow..... If you point out here that you should have used another channel, that really did investigative work, who spoke to people who were there, instead of just summarizing the tabloid, you get reported here for "Spam, deceptive practices and fraud" 😂😂... Wow... I see how freedom of expression is protected.and how much interest there is, discovering the truth but to simply claim that this or that happened at concerts, what isn't proved, no witnesses, no nothing, that seems to be okay 👍👍👍 P. S. Feli from Germany made a video about the allegations, which were without evidence, but she did not later report that all allegations had been dropped by the police and public prosecutor in Europe / Germany... Like so many other channels, it only reported on one side and not about what came out afterwards. and I thought they were interested in the truth? but then they only reported on the allegations and not on the results of the police and the public prosecutor's office.... Yeah
You're right, just because you're at a backstage aftershow party shouldn't mean anything goes. But by her own statement, it's not that way. Till asked her, she said no, he left. That alone clearly differentiates it from the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" type of argument. It's a Rammstein aftershow party. It's rough and rowdy and things happen there. Many women who go there end up having sex with bandmembers. But that's why they go there. Let's not pretend that's not also a factor here. And still, anyone at those parties is free to get up and leave at any point in time. Nobody stops you. There's a security guy who comes up to you and asks if you're leaving and if you say yes, he shows you out (Because if you don't know your way around the backstage area, there's a decent chance you'll get lost at some of those arenas).
Here’s what’s troubling though. According to the allegations, there are two events constituting or presented as “after parties.” One, a formal event where invitees/attendees included the rich and famous, public celebrities with a DJ, music and dancing etc. Then there was a separate “party” where only females were in attendance. Females carefully selected by the band’s representative. This is a source of problems. The women/girls making allegations seem to point up the fact that they were never given entree into the “main” party but rather were ushered into a secluded room away from any post concert festivities. The next level of seriousness involves use of drugs to incapacitate. Hard to prove given many of these drugs don’t remain in the body or are not easily detectable. My guess is the authorities have evidence the girls were “groomed” for something. At the least being coerced and cajoled into some kind of sex with Lindemann. Likely communications between the bands representatives and the girls are easily discovered/corroborated. That most reports mention drugs indicates “coerced” and “cajoled” may have risen in seriousness to “forced.” So it is best to wait for the police report and/or action.
@@JohnLnyc It's not really a secret that Till has his own afterparties. It's also common knowledge among fans that they effectively resemble an Orgy and have done so for decades. All of this goes to say that if you're getting invited to Till Lindemann's afterparty, you KNOW what you're getting invited to. (the promoters also invite you explicidly to his party and NOT the bands party) And even keeping that in mind, by her own admission when she said no, he backed off. No coersion, no cajoling and no force. I'm not sure how much safer it's supposed to get. However, she passed out and that's fair enough as a reason to worry. That doesn't mean that drugs were involved though. Given that no evidence, neither physical nor toxicologically, was found, there's a high chance she passed out from a combination of exhaustion, dehydration, heat and/or alcohol. And that's rather common at these types of event, be it during the concert or an afterparty. So far, all we know is that she passed out at that party, has been crying wolf ever since and is continuing to do so, even with every test so far coming in with either negative results or no results whatsoever. There isn't a single piece of evidence that supports her being assaulted, forced, drugged or raped. Yet Till's career, reputation, public image and future remain in the public crosshairs because he parties hard? Drug use in general is concerning but that's not an issue exclusive to his parties, or Rammstein in general. It's an industry-wide problem and needs to be adressed as such. There's an not insignificant number of people who arrive at these kinds of concerts high as a kite and dealers make a fortune in the crowds.
@@timokampwerth1996 First, the initial complainant has openly stated she was not raped. Maybe Till’s parties were common knowledge among some fans. It seems to me many were not aware of the “orgy” aspect. Obviously, any evidence women were “drugged” so they could be taken advantage of erases the defense they knew what they were getting into or were aware of what was really going on. And we really have no idea of how many have come forward. Apparently these complaints are anonymous, the names only known by prosecutors. Use of drugs adds to this. My guess is there are enough people involved with the band and production who know what was going on, good or bad. They will all likely be interviewed.
If people have genuine stories, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go to police. The process for doing so is horrible and quite often the circumstances just mean there isn't enough evidence. Also, I think "people know what goes on backstage" is a bit of an assumption based on a culture that is pretty outdated. Younger women especially will not be expecting to be used for sex in a post MeToo era. No idea what has happened with Rammstein but these factors remain.
I don’t know if we can call this a post metoo era, it is pretty recent and most of those in show business are still the same people. If anything MeToo should have made women more aware of the dangers.
Having watched a couple of hundred women in the fire zone and zero zone pull their tits out at Rammstein gigs, the whole not down to non-committal Fk’n isn’t a thing. Shelby and Kayla appear to want to have everyone’s cake and eat it too.
I think it's important to repeat that in a lot of these situations abusers (regardless of if Lindemann did or didn't do this) specifically target young people who are a lot more likely to be naive of the long history of abuse in rock music and who are a lot less likely to believe the allegations or take them seriously, because the folly of youth always says "it'll never happen to me" until it does. Regardless, that doesn't excuse the abuser just because the victim should have known better. We prosecute con artists and thieves, even if their victims should have known better than to trust them. We don't blame murder victims if they're in the "wrong part of town". We treat thieves and murders as criminals regardless, so why do not do the same with SA victims? That's a hypothetical question. I have my hypothesis that I won't go into here. I also completely concur with you about "not going to the police". I can't speak for anywhere but the USA, but in the States police rarely take those allegations seriously even if you've gone to the ER and gotten a r@p3 kit procedure. As Feli points out in her video, most of these legal investigations only get started AFTER there's been a media investigation and they're pressured into it.
I know it's random and off topic, but I really appreciate you're at least trying to pronounce foreign words correct way (you once mentioned you've been learning German, right?). As an European, it's my pet peeve hearing American youtubers who don't give a damn about foreign languages, saying whatever and then they're like "I hope I said it right". No Mister, you didn't 😂
There are two sides of this: the legal issue and the ethical one. Legal has to be decided by judges and experts. The ethical point of view is much harder to clarify. And tbh this is not going away anyways. Whatever happened during this parties might not be legally problematic, but might still be ethical questionable.
And as long as Till shows no sign of being sorry for people feeling unwell at or after his parties, that's one of the most important signs he doesn't really care about the people at his parties. If you knew someone felt violated after attending your party, would you not at least care? Even if you didn't feel like doing anything wrong, ethically or legally.
They are having a wild party in one of the back rooms. I'm sure they had a great time. If they feel bad after they leave there is nothing he can do. I once went to a concert and spent all my last money for booze. The next day was awful and I had next to nothing to eat. And it's still my fault that I went there. And did what I did
@@BannschwertHe feels no remorse for what he puts his bandmates through on stage and in music videos especially Flake. Or the girls in his solo project videos, such as Till the End and Einz Plat, who looked drugged to me. I doubt islf they agreed to everything beforehand in detail. They are hard porn as opposed to Rammstein's Pussy video which is more 70s style soft porn. Or the children in the Rammstein videos such as Engel, Dicke Titten, and Mein Hertz Brennt.
I think you are missing the point. It's one thing to go backstage. But it's another thing if person lied there isn't going to be sex. Then to find out the singer wanted sex. Or to be drugged to have sex without consent. If Till is getting girls to have sex with, without their knowledge that is a crime and is an issue.
Innocent until proven guilty applies to both sides, Till and Rammstein on one side and the women that make these accusations on the other side. We simply don't know what really happened. Maybe we will know the truth after the investigation, but the chances are high that we will never know the truth. But i see very often comments of people who simply believe Till and accuse the women that they are lying and then i remember a thing that my father always said "If you want to believe, then go to church, because that's the only place where you can elevate things you believe to facts without looking like a complete idiot".
plenty, and social media and the law, believe the man is guilty first. i see HUNDREDS of comments one sided against men every single day, simply based on a few words. zero investigation. looks like things are evening out, except the accused will have the accusation over his head for the rest of his life even if innocent and cleared. that surely is not fair or right.
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 she doesn't have to prove it to you, me or any other wannabe Judge in the internet. She has to tell her story to the police and they will look if there is evidence for a crime or not and even if they don't find any evidence then that doesn't mean she is lying = both are innocent until proven guilty.
@@BerndFunken if no evidence is found it should most definitely be treated as her lying, and more than that, as false crime charge, reputation destruction, lying to justice, and she should pay for all the legal bills he had, a huge atonement and go to prison for a couple decades
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 That is just ridiculous. False accusations are definitely not something to take lightly but scaring actual victims from reporting what has happened or what they believe has happened isn't a solution either. It's very likely not to find solid proof in sexual assault cases, especially if reporting took a while, but it doesn't mean anyone needs to be punished beyond reasonable means. Looking into the allegations is important. Legal bills could be charged as they are in many other types of cases but prison time or any extra punishment for not finding the accused guilty is just madness. Completely different case if there would be counter evidence showing the fraud, like messages between friends proving it to be planned sabotage or publicity stunt. Like said. innocent till proven otherwise. it does go both ways. Have to remember that people don't have access to all potential evidence that police could get to, like cameras, phone records of accused, witnesses etc. You can only get there by reporting a potential crime to be investigated and potential victims should be given a chance to try at getting justice. Without further evidence it's word against word but on the flip side it might also be that none of these prove to be helpful and you are back to the starting point with only your word left. But lack of evidence doesn't equal fraud. It just mean we don't know enough to reach conclusions. Personally I think it's as inhumane to mark Till as guilty as it is to claim that the girl is lying unless there is proof of either case. It sucks that such cases cause harm to accused even if they aren't found guilty but issue lies within our ways of thinking and click bait/opinion driven media coverage rather than in the accuser. If people would learn to look things objectively and not insert themselves into shoes of either side the damage wouldn't be there. Other than waste of time and money but that's given till someone finds a justice system that isn't heavy on the wallets...
For me its kinda easy. You cant prove or deny what the girls said and that is what will save til at the end anyway. So from a legal point its hard to prove that these things happened but that doesnt mean they didnt. Their have been several woman who spoke up after ppl like kayla used her reach and talked about it. So even if til gets legally proven not guilty why should dozen of woman speak up and let them put in the spot light of the some ppl he send then death Threads and other stuff afterwards. Some even did their accusations under oath, so they can legally charged when they lie. This woman dont get anything out of it. No fame,no money nothing. So why should dozen of woman world wide without private Connection to each other speak up against one man. As said this stuff is hard to prove so til will most likely get out of this but is he really not guilty?
to be completely accurate, she never claimed that she was physically abused.... she stated that she had weird reactions to drinks she got offered which also caused a gap in her memory and that she does not remember where the bruises came from.... she never claimed she was abused or assulted, at the very most, you could interpret her statement as an implication, but that still requires quite some interpretation by the viewer
Personally, I didn't think the last video was tabloidy, I thought it was balanced while explaining these types of situations do happen on tours. I always appreciate your perspective on all things music and touring. As I said in my previous comment on the last video, any accusations should be investigated and if there is any credible evidence, the accused should have their day in court.
I still don't know how to think about this, to be honest. The whole thing just feels kind of icky, for lack of a better word. My gut instinct when someone says that they've been assaulted by someone famous is to give them the benefit of the doubt. Power dynamics are a very real thing, and you don't have to look too hard to find celebrities who have abused them to get what they want. At the same time, we have to respect due process. The idea that someone should be considered innocent until they're proven guilty isn't just a talking point. Or at least, it shouldn't be. The whole concept of justice falls apart without it.
Can you even imagine how many people commit crimes but are never found guilty? I'm not saying this is the case here at all but I'm really tired of people acting like someone who hasn't been found guilty is definitely innocent.
@@juliab9596 And do you know how many people are innocent, yet still were punished for a crime they didn't commit? Which is worse, in your eyes -- an innocent person being punished, or a guilty one getting away with it?
@@juliab9596and how are they supposed to act then? Especially when there's little to no evidence supporting the idea thag the person accused did do the things they say they did, like bruh what you're basically saying is we should all immediately assume everyone is likely guilty of whatever they're being accused of without knowing nearly enough to form an opinion/verdict, that's a huge disrespect to the amount of people who have been punished for crimes they didn't commit
Feli from Germany's content is always incredibly well thought out, well presented, entertaining and fun. If you are interested in German culture and language and a non-native's perspective on the U.S., I highly recommend her channel. Not just for the excellent episode she did regarding this story.
You must heard from us German people, cause we are arrogant holy people who just believe what other saying..and be not better than other...Thats what i hate about my culture...Rammstein mirrors our bad actions for 30 years and they are the best thing what happened to our Country ever❤❤❤❤
So hold up. It was found that: 1: She wasn't drugged 2: the bruises weren't indicative of physical abuse 3: She literally says that Till did not touch her And people still want to lynch Lindemann and destroy Rammstein for the non-crime of asking a woman if she wants to have sex and then leaving when she said no? Am I missing something here, or has this planet fully transformed into cancer?
No. 1. Lindemann has a casting director that recruits women. 2. These women get invited to "special" aftershow parties. 3. If they ask if its a sex thing, they get told no. 4. Its a sex thing. 5. Are the drinks there spiked? That would be criminal and its the only part, they DENY. 6. Maybe shelby had interaction w her meds, maybe she was spiked. Others reported similar things though. We do not know. We cannot proove now whether shelby was drugged or not. How ok you are w the sex system, drugs or not, thats for you to know.
Very much respect you not wanting to cover topics like this more. Thank you for explaining what's happening so far, you've made it very easy to understand the main current points
I would dissent in one important point. For one I find it highly dubious that a doctor, even if paid by the defendant's lawyers, even tries to make an assessment from what boils down to 3 poorly lit photographs. And even then when you read the original text of the doctor's statement and not the lawyer's letter, it all boils down to it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way. The lawyers then turn this around into absolutely no proof for violence.
Well, technically the prosecution / the person making allegations has to prove that there was a punishable offence, not the defendant the absence thereof. It is therefore completely legit for the defending party to present a doctor's expertise which states that there is no conclusive evidence of any deliberate injuries.
@@darkawakening01 The doctor didn't totally rule out deliberate injuries. Plus his "expertise" would not be admissible in court - you cannot take his judgement seriously as he only looked at badly taken photographs, not the wounds themselves.
"it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way" Right, which is why that information tells us nothing about what did or didn't happen. The statements from lawyers also do not constitute evidence either. I think because of the harm that was caused (if the allegations are true), the potential future harm, and the fact that the statements don't vindicate Lindemann, taken together means this needs a serious ongoing criminal investigation.
In the video of Kayla and from what shelby said. They said that they didn't want anything sexual interaction with till. And the guy who brought them there was saying none of that would happen. Either way shelby met till "prepared" in that room. And I also think that saying "the women shouldnt be so naive" isn't gonna help the existing problem of the culture. 15:31
Yeah, seriously. Not everyone knows that stuff. Especially younger girls just getting into metal. Every metalhead I know has a fair amount of childhood damage, which can make us trust the wrong people until we learn better. Pretty shit take from Tank on that note.
I love that everyone's approach is "women should be prepared, they know what's going to happen!" and not "men need to learn to be f___ng respectful and keep their hands to themselves!" You're in a good band. Whoop de doo. That does NOT entitle you to anyone else's body and you should stop thinking that because you can sing you get to stick your dick in random people. Men are so pathetic.
Also, some people genuinely just want to party and meet the band. I see a lot of victim blamers saying that the girls should have known what they were getting into... That makes me mad
@@nunpho If you go backstage it's because you want something from the band. It's a transaction. You don't get to be surprised when you want something from someone and they might want something from you.
Looks like MeToo strikes again!!! 1 person tells a story, then all of a sudden 20 "find the strength to tell THEIR truth!!". And, tank, it's not hard to figure out WHY people would come forward, $$$$$$$. Come on son, you know that too. And can anyone answer me who wins here, if she's telling the truth, she's a victim and he needs to go to jail, FOREVER, BUT, if she's lying, nothing happens to her besides bring called a liar liar pants on fire, but he still is gonna lose his career, and people are gonna say he's a r@p!st!! Thats the fact, he is absolutely in a no win situation and his career is 100% over. So, I think laws need to be put into place where if you make an a false accusation, it's the equivalent to whatever they accused someone of. So, you accused someone of SA, And that's a 20 yr sentence or whatever, that's what your jail sentence is now. Just as I believe women should be protected from psychos, men should ABSOLUTELY be protected from lies. Let's say for arguments sake, that she's lying,DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT RAMMSTEIN WILL EVER BE ABLE TO TOUR on the level they are now? No. Just no. You know as well as I do, it's over. Period. Can you just imagine how many people someone who lied affected? Not even counting the band, all the merchandisers, the people who sell this stuff at shows, the road crew, who, if you've ever seen a rammstein concert must surely being in the dozens upon dozens. The bands families, children, who, will now be associated with a whole band of assaulted, cause you know how kids are!!! I mean, when someone makes an accusation like this, even though it's a solo thing to them, but, it's not a solo thing to who it's accused against. I'm to the point where I don't know if I want it to be true or not. (I mean obviously I would never want to see someone who's been hurt) what I mean is strictly from an outcome scenario. But, if he did it, he goes to jail I guess. But everyone else is destroyed. And, if it didn't happen, everyone's still destroyed. Except for her.
@nimrodery So you need to prove that someone's accusations destroyed your life? Even if it turns out to be a total lie? Like, let's look at Amber Huard. She TOTALLY lied, and did everything she could to play victim. Had she not hired such a cluster **** group of lawyers, there would still be people who thinks all this stuff happened to her. (And there actually are still some). But, everyone went into that case already having Depp guilty. He had pretty much lost his career at that point. And what did everyone base their opinion on? Amber's word. This is my point, people need to understand that people lie for all kinds of reasons, to get rich, to get even, to gain fame, and sometimes they just lie to become a victim so they can get the attention and pity that comes with it. We as a society need to start realizing that people like this exist. And not immediately jump to guilt before hearing all the REAL EVIDENCE.
Rammstein is extremely litigious. None of this is shocking legally. They have more money and lawyers. Unless there's a smoking gun, he'll continue to rape women if he wants to do it and has done it without any consequences. How long did Weinstein get away with it? And this isn't me saying he's guilty. I'm just saying that in the end, even if he is, he's unlikely to face legal consequences. Also, saying that young girls going to a party get what they deserve if they get raped is saying it's a victim's fault if they get raped and that is never true. If you think it is? You might need to check your male privilege.
Which is why we need to crowd fund for better lawyers for the victims not let them rely on lawyers doing pro bono work. The higher up and more famous the more they get away with bad behaviour until the general public turns against them. Same with Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris and Ian Watkins.
Great video Tank, I am waiting to see how this plays out and if no-one has come forward to the police at this point it does look better from Til's perspective than some of the news outlets are making out. I do still find the statement from the drummer (or PR / Lawyers posting as the drummer) to be at least a little damning. On the going backstage thing, ok people know what thats about and you possibly know that the question will be asked but it does not remove the persons right to deny consent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is taking the "she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it" approach which is just disgusting.
The drummer has not distanced himself from Till in any way. Again, that's just how it's interpreted. He simply says that he doesn't know what Till is doing when he's not there. No one knows what someone else is doing if they are not there. My mother went on vacation alone. I have no idea what she's doing there. But I'm sure she's not doing anything illegal. I'm not distancing myself from my mother. And that's exactly what Schneider said. That's it.
@@Scheater1337es, because they are not present at these parties. He also said that he was sure that there was nothing illegal going on. All he is saying is that he doesn't like such parties. He distances himself from the parties and not from Till. When I distance myself from someone, I don't defend them.
@@TomTomson81 Well, to be precise, he wrote that Till distanced himself from the band in recent years. So if you want to argue about semantics here, I guess I can give you that point... I don't think it makes any difference in this context, though. Either way, there is a bigger distance between them and Till now than before.
@@TomTomson81 "It is also important to us that Till’s parties are not confused with our official after-show parties.Till has distanced himself from us in recent years and created his own bubble, with their own people, their own parties, their own projects." That's not an interpretation. That's a direct quote from his statement.
The German police are doing the right thing by continuing the investigation. These are serious claims that need to be investigated fully. EDIT: I'm waiting for Till Lindemann's ukulele apology video
I have a question about this topic, about the music industry. Could a band member of Rammstein just say they do not keep on playing the tour, because of everything that happend? Do they have to pay a fine? Who loses money if Till would be arrested, if the tour has to be canceld? Could he be responsible for that? Would be interesting to know how these things work behind the scenes.
Why should they stop the tour? Literally no one cares. Tickets given back per concert are only in the dubble digits (normal for concerts this size). The only people making this a big thing are some angry feminists that believe every accusation without a doubt.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolie When dozens of women come forward with very similar stories about what Till did to them, then yes, they should be believed. But people like you are why feminists are angry. What a nice world we are living in, in which men and their cronies rally around this millionaire rockstar who can afford high-powered attorneys, to defend this poor man from average women who are reporting being harrassed, assaulted and pressured and who are being insulted by people like you in comment sections like these. You're appropriately named. You're just full of air but otherwise empty.
Great video. As a 52 year old woman, I was planning on seeing Rammstein in Budapest when I visit family in a couple of weeks. Also, as a woman who was a teen during the 80's, who loved "Hair Bands" I would try to sneak back stage to meet my favorite bands. The giving of back stage passes to women for sex has been going on for many years before our time. I knew at 15 exactly what was going on. I don't know how this translates to grooming someone, but also it doesn't matter who you are you should always treat someone with respect, and provide a safe environment. I also believe in innocent until proven guilty. I think I will go see them in Budapest.
Saw them 3 weeks ago in Munich, it was fantastic. Hope you have a great time if you go. Especially if it turns out to be the last tour. Innocent until proven guilty!
Well said! I wouldn’t have said it (being a man) but an invite backstage isn’t the hardest code to break and work out what it means. It’s gone on since rock and roll was invented and probably well before that too, hell Elvis was terrible for it, it’s been well reported, so no way someone doesn’t know what’s going on. Ironically while typing this, an ad for Motly Crue’s tour came up, can you imagine how many girls went back stage with them 😳
I believe Tills innocent. I think he’s into the kink lifestyles but that doesn’t make him a predator. And quite Frankly I highly doubt Lindemann is struggling to get laid. Even at 60!
The woke media is sounding like they have never heard of groupies and never heard of groupies having sex with musicians. They are women. They are of age. They have brains. Normally the women actually like the musicians otherwise they wouldn't try get backstage for fks sake. None of these woman have gone to the police except for Shelby and her story has more holes in it than the titanic when it struck the ice burg in 1912. Her accusation won't even make it to court because it'll fall apart.
@@Yosser70 Oh yeah, let's blame the victims because they forgot that all men are apparently creeps who can only think of sex all the time and have no self control? You seemed to have missed the part where Rammstein also had backstage parties that were not meant as orgies.
Important detail imo; Till's party is not the same as the standard afterparty that takes place. The drummer made a statement about it that Till and them separated a years ago in regards to the parties.
Most of the Row 0 girls think they will be going to the band's parties. There is one other band member sometimes present at Till's parties. It was mentioned the guitarist but which one?
@@lemsip207 Spiegel_10.06.2023 - Google-Translator: "Once, after a concert in Munich 2019, W. remembers it at the after-after show party a loud argument between Lindemann and guitarist Richard Kruspe came. You could have felt the same Girls selected for sex and yelled at each other, saying the woman, who was around 20, seemed distraught."
separated years ago? sounds weird because they still a band. hope that this is false claims but feels a bit strange so might be some truth in them sadly.
Authorities in Lithuania dropping their investigation might be a win for Till's lawyers, but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. We don't know how well the Lithuanian police are at investigating sexual assault, in most western countries police are pretty terrible at it. This might just be the usual case of not having any interest nor leads. The same goes for no women in Germany coming forwards: The German legal system has an extremely low conviction rate for sexual abuse plus the legal processes are often heavily traumatizing for the victims. Add on that the media interest in *your* case and having to go against one of the most powerful and rich Germans... that's not something people will put themselves through willingly. And to that we have to add, that the system around Till, as it is described by the victims, is pretty safe for him. He is not the one handing out drinks and foods or drugs at those parties, he's not the one influencing women beforehand. So it's pretty hard to prove that he did anything illegal without his pimps accusing him directly. As there are so many women talking about having no memories, it's also impossible for them to say what really happened besides "feelings" which also means that's irrellevant in court. Lastly KO-drops are impossible to find in your blood after a day, so if you're not extremely quick to react and also suspect being drugged with them, it's not possible to find them as proof. Overall it looks pretty dire in a legal situation. I think the more important part is the social situation and the communication Till and his lawyers choose. There is no denying the Row 0, there is no denying alcohol and basically pimping girls and there was not a single comment of regret should women have felt unwelcome with him. He doesn't care about that, he only wants to be safe legally. And regarding "they should have known" - No! Simply no. That's fucking mysoginistic. Women don't have to ever expect people only care for them in a sexual way. Sure there are stories about Rock Stars, Groupies and after show parties, but that's not an excuse. Plus at least Shelby asked multiple times if it was about sex and always was told "no it's just a fun party". So this was simply manipulation. Is it okay to have sex with fans? Sure. Should you do it, as you are in a clear position of power and influence over them? Well that's your own choice. But that culture of basically manipulating women to party with you, get them drunk and then just being interested in them as sex objects is disgusting no matter what bands do that. And the more people know about it, the harder it will be to defend.
Shelby eventually said on Twitter Til didn’t lay a single finger on her. Yet she implied in a series of TikTok videos: she had been Drugged, Beaten and Raped. Though her now deleted friends and exboyfriend statements on Instagram was rather telling ‘..She has a tendency to make shit up..’ KO can be detected in hair up to a month after.
Heres a question why do you think the band would want to hang out back stage with women they dont know if sex isn't part of the equation? its kind of stupid of these women to think they are owed the opportunity to go back stage unless they have something to offer what do they think the band is just interested their conversation and to hangout its possible sometimes sure but highly unlikely . You can think its gross all you want but human kind are selfishly motivated by nature and the reality is if you don't have anything to offer then you are not worth the time. I'm not saying it's right or that I agree with it but it is the reality of most interactions.
Thank you for outlining the underlying issues. It's not as easy as demanding proof for crimes that are notoriously hard to prove and have such a horrendously low conviction rate. So many people mistake a lack of evidence as proof that a victim lied and the perpetrator did nothing wrong. And all the fans that go, 'well, I'm waiting for real evidence because real victims would have it' are just lying to themselves to maintain the status quo. Shelby never accused Lindemann directly and she never claimed that he assaulted her but the police not investigating further is seen as some huge win for him, when really, she only exposed the exploitative system he had been benefiting from for years.
Credible accusations of sexual abuse/assault should always be taken seriously. But accusations on social media with no medical proof should never be taken at face value. As a society, we are moving in a deeply troubling direction, towards 'mob rule', where anyone can make any kind of accusation online now, and society stands ready to condemn the accused with no form of due process of any kind. Everybody lies, people. The correct statement of affairs is not "believe women", but rather "take women seriously". The problem has always been that women are too often simply dismissed when they bring up sexual impropriety. That is what's wrong, and what needs to stop. But to swing too far the other way, and just believe any allegation without investigation or defense, is a very, very dangerous road to go down as a society. Anyone can be falsely accused. What's next, lynching parties every time some girl doesn't want to admit to daddy that she got wasted and sucked off a rockstar? Look, Till is a notorious party animal and sex fiend. And Rammstein has always been a band that likes to indulge in the sex, drugs, and rock and roll of it all. Their reputation doesn't help them here. Any and all accusations should be taken seriously and be investigated. And if found guilty, Till should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But we cannot, must not, become a society that no longer values the principle that everyone is innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Absent such proof, I suppose everyone has to choose for themselves which side they want to err on... For me, I find it suspect that a woman who genuinely believes she has been abused while unconscious, would post about it on social media rather than take the matter to the authorities. Maybe I'm too old to understand the social media generation, but I don't think if I were in that situation, my first thought would be to see how many likes I could rack up by posting about it online. My first thought would be to get a medical examination and call the police, and then a lawyer 🤷♂️
legally moot, having a crew to do everything for you gives enough plausible deniability he likely will never be charged with anything... he is a dreg none the less for even having a crew to do that for him. My opinion has flat-lined to zero. You are a rock-star, f*cking act like it and take the women who explicitly go there with the expressed idea of having relations with you. But somehow I am willing to bet that is not what *he* likes.
Feli's video was actually how I found out about all of this. Her channel is great if you're interested in cultural differences. Glad she covered this topic. I thought your video on this was also well done.
Well "the Spiegel" reported specifically on two stories. One story was about a lady that gave Lindemann consensually a BJ, went to his bed room, he asked her twice if it was okey (to her own account), the sex was rough and after that she was bleeding.That all while she knew that she had some medical condition that does not allow her to have proper vaginal sex. During that time also another girl entered the room. Lindemann asked also her if she would like to join. She rejected and left. The other girl knew that this party will have a "sexual component". She passed out there. And she does not quite know, what happend but assumes that Lindemann had Sex with her during that time. The only story that could be daming. But she did not go to the Police, there is no proof and she does not even perfectly know for herself. The mindboggling thing is, these is what these ladies report themselfes. Even the Shelbies story is basically about consent. He enters room, she tells him that she does not want to have sex with him and he accepts... Plus those affidavits. They have no legal meaning. In order to be meaningful they would need to file charges and repeat the accusation in front of a German court.
I like the idea of giving the fans in the nose bleeds a chance to experience something but if they are only offering it to girls that’s a little sketch imo.
The thing is, there's no way to proof anything physical. It's just the story that you can tell but it's nearly impossible to have any evidence as a victim, if you didn't go to the hospital right after the incident. So I assume they're all on low hopes and just speak out to damage their image. But we will see.
I somewhat disagree with the statement (paraphrased) "they should know what they're getting into by going backstage". I do, I have for a long time (I'm 54,) and most people know. But teenage kids go to rock shows. It's not that far fetched to imagine some naive, starstruck girl at her first rock concert getting just a little bit more than she bargained for.
My sister and her friend was invited backstage to the after party at a Rammstein concert and barely saw the band. It's not equal to anything sexual. They did have a lot of fun though.
And the lesson from this is: people, do not take drinks from strangers. Also don't mix SSRIs (antidepressants) with alcohol. Red Bull with vodka mixed with stuff like tequila and prosecco is also a bad idea as it will make you regret all of your life choices (and coincidentally is what Shelby was drinking that night - there are 4 megathreads on r/Rammstein that document this entire case in thorough details. More thorough than anything you see in English media).
You don't mix beer or cider with either wine or spirits so why mix wine with spirits either? I would only mix wine with brandy as that is grape based. You shouldn't even mix red wine and white wine in the same drinking session.
If on anti depressants you should stick only to one small glass of wine or 500mls of beer at the most. I often go to gigs sober and don't drink alcohol there as I need to be extra aware and cautious around dunk people or people high on hard drugs.
Exactly! When I chose to stop taking fluoxetine before the pandemic, because you know...I like to have drinks. Felt like shit when I would drink while i was taking it. Wasn't any fun and just got really sleepy.
speaking as a r4pe survivor myself, back in 2010...true or not, *WHY* is everyone going to the internet rather than the police?...I went to my local police station and printed out all the messages that were exchanged between myself and my r4pi$t. 2 or 3 months later, I was in court to have a restraining order/order of protection. I understand it's scary, but the last place I would go would be social media. And yes, I was asked what I was wearing as if I somehow asked for it.
That's what stinks. Some of these stories are secondhand accounts being given to media sources. If all those things were true, someone would have come forward with enough evidence. It hasn't happened.
It's just so sick how a career gets destroyed here Which have been built up for years is !! Rammstein has been around since 1994! And then there come such lying women And claim things that are not true! Anyone can paint a bruise on it, Or just add it yourself or someone else. Then the clips of Kayla are constantly being cut! When you hear them talking and look at their facial expressions, You can see that she's lying! She comes across as incredibly believable! who believes what she says Has no knowledge of human nature and notion of people! It seems staged and partially imposed and under duress. The women often abuse the subject of rape and coercion…. To arouse pity and then to frighten people around. Then they know exactly that they are often taken under protection, And then they are the victim. Unfortunately, the women are often the perpetrators and lie cold as ice! And when Kayla mentioned in her first video about Till that Rammstein was right-wing, I knew that she wasn't a Rammstein fan!!!!!! Especially when you're friends with left-wing guys like reezo and other left-wing extremists. So it all comes across as staged and intentional!!! And now the attacks by Antifa on Rammstein offices, Or at Till privately, Declare immediately to every thinking person, Something is fishy here!!!! Antifa is very violent and extreme left. They are inhuman and only know hate and terror! The aim of this is to destroy everything that is German!!! That's Rammstein. Especially songs like waidmans heil...my country...pussy...foreigners...Germany...etc.... Don't like Antifa and left-wing Greens !!!!! And in the present time when a huge agenda or that wants a new world order, In general, everything should be turned inside out. Funny that these climate activists suddenly appeared, And even that only know their ideology, And are highly inhuman!!!! It's not about climate change! The climate activists are so to speak Antifa! And again...if women like Kayla were right, Why didn't she report this immediately last year? Or reported to the police ⁉️ Then she would be aware of a crime... She didn't go to the police because it's all made up. Also strange that none of the extreme left to rape texts that are from rappers! From rapper Krijo Stalker to Frauenarzt,blokkmonsta,kaisa….. Or current German rappers. Is it because most German rappers have a migration background ⁉️⁉️⁉️ They are allowed to do everything ???? Are allowed to rap lyrically about rape, Or killing and being criminals….glorifying drugs….etc…. Antifa won't open their mouths ⁉️⁉️⁉️ Funny no.....🤔 Antifa hates Rammstein and everything suits them! But these people and also the climate activists are the real culprits, And should be punished very severely and best locked away for life ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😤😡🤮
Thank you so much for pinning it down that NO MATTER where you go - even if it says "this is a sex party!!!" on the door - you can ALWAYS say no. "Why do women put themselves in danger" is a bullshit quesion. "Why do dangerous places exist and who are enabling them" is what we should be asking.
dangerous places exist because people are dangerous lol. people go there, even places where theres drugs and alcohol because they dont think it will happen to them. that is human mentality. the old preach to the young on where to go, where not to go and every thing else about life but in the end the person makes their own choice.
If I hear of a middle aged person inviting my 20 year old son or daughter to a backstage party then I already instinctively want to beat that person but if my child honestly believes this could be a safe thing to do then I have failed as a father. If it says “this is a sex party” and my child thinks it will definitely be safe I have failed. If my child is invited to any party by total strangers and thinks it could be a safe thing to do then I have failed. I have failed miserably. I work in Community support and there is a law about the dignity of risk, there are laws about adult rights and consent. But every time a 18+ year old kid goes out, falls in love or goes to ANY party it is possibly dangerous and if they do not know that then their mother and father, their school, their friends and their community has failed them and they are as badly at risk out in the world as new born lamb.
@@MrMightyZ you always have to warn them about the possible risks yes, because this is the world we live in, but there is no way you or your child are entirely responsible if someone else decides to do foul things. People want and should have fun and curiosity towards anything in life, it will still be the rapist's fault if rape is committed, it will still be the murderer's fault if murder is committed. Like, here's the thing, I just got attacked on the street yesterday, in broad daylight. My father didn't fail me. He'd told me this would happen. But my attacker's father hadn't brought him up not to be an asshole. HIS father failed him. You know what I mean? Of course you gotta be careful but I can only repeat myself, backstages shouldn't be dangerous, not even sex parties should be dangerous, we need to stop bad people, not activities that can be perfectly fine if sober, consensual adults attend them
Right. Even if a pedestrian walks right into the middle of the road in front of your car, you still have an obligation to try and slam the brakes as long as it will not create more danger. If you're a horny band member and you invited women to your sex party, even if they 100% knew it was a sex party, _IF THEY SAY NO, YOU LET THEM GO._ The only thing in danger if you don't have sex with them is your pride, which is nowhere near worth destroying a woman's life over.
It might be just me, but if I were assaulted, I would go straight to the police and to take evidence. I wouldn't wait and then post stuff on reddit. Let alone coming forward after god knows how much time and go to the press. This behaviour is shady AF. I wish we lived in a world were these accusations were only made when true, but sadly we don't.
noone should ever bash you. i dont know you in person but its obvious you are a genioun person speaking (and headganging ) his heart out. Keep it up my man and hope we meet in UK at some point for a pint soon
okay i won't choose a side till it's proven to me this seems like attention seeking from the things i have seen and the actual evidence. but also lets talk about the fact that there's video of shelby jumping on joe while he is uncomfortable with it and pushing her away i know this might seem like a minor thing but why isen't it discussed when a woman does something to a man while he is seemingly not wanting it. this time is so wierd basically a woman can harass a man and it will be seen as nothing or a joke while if it's the other way around it's an law suit and a crime
I know this is off topic but I've never seen Tank without his hat/cap. 😂 It's freaking me out it's like a glitch in the matrix or something haha. 🤣 I haven't been subbed/around for long so that's probably why but I love all the content. ❤
This will not be the last video you do about this. The first video was clickbait, this video is clickbait and the next will also be clickbait. Views are how you make a living, so can't say I'm surprised. But not making clickbait when more views means more earnings for you... Let's just say very few UA-camrs have the irons to not make tabloid clickbait for views.
The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" applies to the women coming forward as well. A lot of people like to defend alleged perpetrators by saying basically "innocent until proven guilty, and all these hos are liars" instead of reserving judgement for everyone involved.
I'm not saying Till is to blame, but I wouldn't be surprised it if actually turned to be true., Sex, drugs and alcohol go hand-in-hand with rock and metal music and I've heard a lot of crazy shit people experienced there. I'm not saying this doesn't happen on other type of music genre, this kind of stuff happens a lot on trans, house, EDM, dubstep concerts, as well. All the festivals that attract younger audiences, I'd say. People carry all kinds of drugs there.
Btw quick correction here. Several news outlet (quite serious ones comparable to NYT , WP etc ) have spoken with women that accuss Till of several things. They could confirm that the women didn't know each other and where not at the same shows . The claims are quite strong because up to 20 of these women they spoke to , shared some details that were not public knowledge.
Thank you for overing this story. We all know there is a lot of stuff going on in the world of 'Sex drugs and Rock 'n' Roll' , there is always the line of legality and/or harm to other people that should not be crossed. That being said, I recently discovered the artist Scene Queen and her song 18+ that sort of covers this same issue in the music industry. Don't know if you know this artist/song, but if you don't I highly recommend it.
The public prosecution in Germany is required to investigate for evidence speaking against the defendant (and pro the accuser) but with the same priority for evidence pro the defendant (and against the accuser).
We live in a democratic politicial system ....so there is always the side of innocentness, when there are no indicies...so Till Lindemann is an innocent man❤❤❤😊 I love him so much, be strong, Till😊
Witnesses in the feuerzone at other concerts last year are saying the same thing. One reported girls whipping each other close to the stage and one of them baring her anus. Security guards standing by and not doing anything about it. If you worked for an outside organisation you would be expected to keep order so I think they work directly for the band.
She never said, she was raped bei TL. She said she didn t remember were this big marks were from. She thinks she was spiked. ( They are always looking for women for the sex parts during the shows, maybe the casting director made them compliant, cause TL said, he thought everthing about Sex was cleared but Shelby never has been asked directly, about that, before )
2 Things. "Innocent until proven guilty" is for both sides. not only Till/Rammstein. and the thing with "you have to seperate the art from the artist". Well but then why are other people saying "these women should know better"???? That implies that you already mix up both Tills. the private one and the artist one. I dont agree with you saying that you agree with these people saying that. These women were told there was a party and not that they would have to have sex with someone. "These women are naive" is not an argument if you are being lied to.
Holding "judgement" until enough information is in hand is never a bad idea. It means sometimes evolving stories will catch you off guard, but so will judging early. Waiting until you have "enough" information is safer.
well thats not how people in the future will react tho, itll only get more emotional and irrelevant cause at one point innocent will be hurt and accused.
I read everything she posted. She passed a drug test. She drank from the same bottle as Til. Witnesses disagree with her version of events. There is no merit to her claims. I'm not even a Rammstein fan.
Tells Till specifically "she wont have sex with him" and he walks away, yup, if I was someone as high profile as Till then Id be getting as far the fuck away from someone whos first interaction is to say that to me too, huge red flag....
If what happen is Till asked her if she wanted to get down and she said no so he left her alone. That is the safe environment we want. If she was then harassed or messed with some other way that’s not ok. I’m waiting to see what the investigations show to form an opinion
Shelby and other women were not told beforehand about the very natire of these "parties". They were put under pressure. Some who had intercourse with Lindemann accuse him of being rough. Those are the problems.
Thank you for the last words. You pointed it. Even if women were naiv to go on these partys, it's no justify for TL to think they are a catering for sex. You can't pick them like a piece of bread. TL seems to live in his own bubble where he as a rockstar was able to create a system to satisfy his insatiable lust. This is a complete other thing than having sex with a groupie.
Girls going back stage has always meant the same thing ..........hows this different ? movies , books etc on the subject have been around for years , it might not be right but its the way it is , If any one out there has been a roadie for a well known rock band ( i have ) , Hedonism and the fact that it isnt safe is like a magnet for them ...
Didn’t like the video Feli made, for me it’s biased. Yours was much better, neutral and clarifying details and stuff. I’ve been following this since the Shelby woman posted on Reddit, this is getting out of hand in a social and political way that I’ve never seen before. We’ll see what happens.
I don't buy it. As soon as I saw that they went to IG with a camera on their face instead of going to the police or filing with an attorney, I knew it was made up for attention. Of course the music industry sucks and a lot of bad things happen to men and women that are fans, but I don't buy this specific thing.
I remember in the 90's, i was at a Fear Factory and Biohazard gig in the Midlands UK. And girls were trying to go backstage. I even saw one guy who was waiting for his girlfriend to come out of the backstage area. He knew what was going on. It was pretty sad
I agree, when you go back stage or someone from the band, through a friend sends you a shirt/pass you know the deal. I said no thanks. I went home by myself with a shirt I bought. I won't say what band but they are all gross. Not my type.
@@jerrimenard3092 I'm against that "they are all the same" thinking. "Backstage" happens everywhere, not only in the music industry, some abuse their position/charisma/fame and some don't. Everywhere. Even in private enviroments .
well this is kind of naive. everyone with a grain of education and some form of humane forward progressive thinking knows that an acquittal, especially when its about sexual crimes, really doesnt mean that the person isnt guilty. legally he might leave this not filed guilty, but there are over a hundred women that accused that one person. innocent until proven guilty is something to protect the person from the state and the police, we as the people have the right and duty to stand by the side of victims.
Thanks so much for the shoutout! 😊🙏
Kein Problem. 😎 Great job on the video!
Insane crossover
Move over Avengers, new insane crossover incoming.
@@TankTheTech.....ignore my comment I just put on your other video. I didn't yet know you already saw her video. 😅
Love your channel!
What I think is missing in much of the more international discussion is this: the discussion in Germany is heavily focused on the ethical side of things. That whole elaborate system that was created to lure in young and often inexperienced women and that put these women in uncomfortable and dangerous situations, putting a lot of pressure on them. It's a discussion about power imbalances and it's confirmed at this point that that syatem existed. Even if it's not illegal, it's morally VERY questionable. Things were bubbling up since a few years anyway around Lindemann's projects, but they didn't get much traction. Now it just blew up, but it's nothing new tbh. I for one am disgusted by Lindemann's behaviour regarding the system he created and how he handles the allegations now (with his lawyers doing the exact opposite of what the band said in an official statement).
Was there something that he can legally be punished for? Idk, we will see. The vast majority of SA cases are dropped unfortunately because it's so difficult to prove something. To all the people crying about fake allegations: they are rare. As a guy you are more likely to not be punished even if you actually assaulted someone than to get false allegations. Police often does not take victims seriously either.
Women who spoke about their experience with Lindemann openly received a lot of death threats. So it's no wonder most remain anonymous. Btw, just because they are anonymous to the public does not mean that they are anonymous to the police. So we don't know what's exactly going on rn.
But as I said, the system and how it generally worked is confirmed at this point and for me it's definitely morally wrong, even if it ends up being legally okay. So I'm done with Rammstein and that's it. In the end, everyone has to decide what they personally find ok and what not.
Well said. There is more thanks just the legal part of it
Great video and yes, Feli is amazing! I've been following her channel even before it changed names and had to rebrand. Thank you for making this video, it's important to clarify this type of issues\incidents and the music industry.
it's better that way! a serious person should not participate in such slander!
i need to double down on the shout out to Feli from Germany's channel. she does great stuff & even though i still don't speak German, her videos (along with Rammstein songs & old WWII movies have helped me either pick up or understand words in German). if anyone is remotely interested in learning the language, her vids are a must add to your playlist. not to mention her video on this particular topic is extremely thorough & well put together. big shout out to Feli
I found her through Radical Living also in English but is mostly about Berlin. There are Brits and people from the USA speaking about life in Germany if they went there to study German or work.
Yeah, "Feli"'s done a marvellous job ... ^^
... a marvellous propaganda-supportservice-job for the left-identitarian, woke and feministic infested german media-machine.
Everything You need to know ...
Shame on 'Feli'. She's no German!
She did a great job
Yes she has some good videos. I found her after I watched Tanks first video on this.
Feli spread Shelbys fake story days after it was offially refuted. She also didn't do any investigation on her own, because if she did, she would have known, that there have been multiple witnesses form the beginning, calling Shelby out for her lies. Also she gave a platform to Kayla and her video, which did massive damage to Lindemann, although nothing at all ever happened to her. She has actually never even met him, but every German has heard of that video and just assumes, she'd be a victim, due to the media making it look that way. There's many issues with Kayla tbh. She publicly says, she d sell her soul for money. She likes to drop the n-bomb. She sexualizes herself like no one I ve ever seen and was (or maybe still is) a testimonial for a porn platform, which is ok, but this makes her indignation about a guy who might see her as a sexual being just ridiculous.
I m personally very disappointed by Feli! I d go as far as to say it was a crime, that she released it, without even mentioning all the new informations, that have been out in the public by the time she put it up on UA-cam.
this shit happens everywhere all the time, unfortunately. In 2012, for instance, my then-wife and I went to a Star Wars convention at the local science museum. It was an afterhours event for adults and alcohol was being served. Anyway, she ordered a long island iced tea, and we went around taking pictures with people in costume, talking with folks, you know whatever. well, she took maybe three sips of that shit and was like "dude. this is gross." and i was like "no shit! it's a long island iced tea!" she was like "do you want it?" and i said "not really BUT it was $10 so i'll drink it." once i got to the bottom of the cup, there was a little ball of white material in the bottom of the clear plastic cup that i picked out and mashed between my fingers, where it turned to powder. i was like "oh great" and i started losing vision about 15 minutes later and i also became incredibly intoxicated. i've taken a lot of drugs in my life (10 years clean, though this was not the situation that lead me to stop using hard drugs)...anyway this definitely felt like i had taken a couple of xanax bars or a similar sedative. we called the museum to warn the other people at the convention of what had happened, got no answer, and left a message which was never responded to. i am 100% convinced that someone tried to drug her that night and i ended up drinking the shit, thankfully. it was really scary. we had felt safe at what was literally a fucking nerd convention but someone there was a total asshat. don't set your drinks down anywhere in public, folks. and i hate to say it, but, don't trust people in crowds.
She got fucked lolol
@zzz-222i I didn't even know about "incel culture" back then but ever since the term became popular, i would think of that convention every time "incels" were brought up. i doubt anyone was even trying to r@pe her when this happened but i can bet they were a self-identified "incel" who did this shit just to be an asshole because she was hot.
Omg, someone was clearly targeting her. I think you guys escaped a truly terrifying situation
At a star wars nerd convention, that's f-ing insane
Tills investigation has been dropped because aside from the accusation that people around him got girls to his parties, nothing withstood the investigations. Apparently he didnt rape or drug women. Why? because when looked closely, nobody directly even accused him of that.
As a side note to the Berlin Investigation: In Germany, the prosecutors are required by law to start an investigation once they hear about a possible criminal offense, without an actual accusor being required (no need for a "Strafantrag", so a request for punishment). The "accusor" in this case are the german people as a whole, as prosecuting criminal offenders is considered to be in the interest of all german people - which in my opinion only makes sense.
Yes, what means, they probably would have started investigations because of the media reports anyways
Sounds like something right out of Kafka
@@YBM2007 what?
@@lenab5266 'Der Process', my first thought when reading this
@YBM2007 why though? The only "similarity" is that it's both somehow about a legal investigation. For me, it feels like you want to tell me the investigations are unjust in an pseudo-intellectual way. Please correct me if I'm wrong
This feels like one of those situations where you know that no matter the outcome you're going to feel depressed
The thing that I found depressing as well is, the very second I heard about this, I was like, "Rammstein? Oh yeah, I totally believe they've done it." Same way I felt about Marylin Manson, though he settled out of court, so can't really say if that's, you know, NOT a crime. I'm not saying I don't like Rammstein's music - I'm saying when everything you do as a band - from making many songs about sex or selling a special edition of an album with dildos and handcuffs included, I don't think "Oh, they're so sex positive!" I think "yeah this'll probably come up later in their careers." I'm not saying Lindemann did anything, or that he didn't, I'm saying it's very easy for me to believe.
@@jessicastoker8932 Till is positive he's had sex...just the other person never knows
@@jessicastoker8932yes just like every single death metal band member is possibly committing torture and dismemberment
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 Hey, I said it's easy to BELIEVE they did it. Doesn't mean I think they did or endorse the idea. Also, as this very video mentions, sexualized behavior and bands kinda' go hand-in-hand. The idea that "nobody will ever go too far" is outlandish, so rather than be ultra defensive when news comes out like "band member may have committed sexual misconduct," I just go, "Well, that sucks. We'll see what happens."
Also, because I think it's funny, I REALLY want to bring up Cannibal Corpse...
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449Nah, they only burn churches. Based tho. 🤣🤣
I watched the Feli from Germany video on Till Lindemann and Rammstein and the allegations. You are right she did a great job on her video and covered a lot of information.
The women attending these gatherings can dress as scantily as they want and should be able to still feel safe.
Going to an after party is way different than going to someone's hotel room. Even in the hotel room No should still count.
Show business is such a shady environment.
Tank, in case you didn't know, this upload here is your 666th video on the channel. No joke. 😮
Oh damn. Hahahahaha. 🤘🤘🤘
HAIL TANK
Great way to cover the topic, still staying objective and giving interpretations.
That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigators might or might not find. Giving opinions does not help finding the truth.
"That's what everyone should do. Wait and see what the investigations might or might not find."
Then why are you clapping for this video with that stupid "Great way to cover the topic , still staying objective and giving interpretations", which deciphered means: blabbering like anystupidelse does ...
You moron ... :)
Amen!
Unpopular opinion: Just because "it's always happened" or "they knew what they were there for" doesn't mean that these sorts of power dynamic experiences aren't predatory and shouldn't be illegal. It's 2023 and the industry needs to do better in my honest opinion.
Couldn't agree with you more.
not unpopular but perhaps naive... power and sex dynamics are built into us as a species, legislate it all you want but that won't make it go away
@@Zennofobic I don't think that wanting people to be safe and desiring everyone to enjoy music equally is naïve, idealistic maybe. Maybe it was "built into us as a species" at the beginning of our evolution, but we're Neanderthals or Denisovans anymore, we can do better going forward.
@@Bunstonious Not that easily. It's still built in, whether we like it or not. Same way we still have other "features" that became more of a hindrance than help in a modern industrial world, like putting on weight when an abundance of food is available or being built for more movement than is feasible in an office job.
It's not simply a matter of deciding to not follow that anymore. You have to actively struggle against your own nature.
But how do meassure the power dynamic? Someone i love or am realy attracted to does without a doubt more power over me then someone that i don't like.
Does that mean that i can't be with someone i like, because i would be happy to do stuff with them because i like them?
I was very impressed with how Feli broke down this story in great detail, especially since she doesn't usually cover very serious topics like this. I was surprised with how much detail there was that we wouldn't have necessarily gotten as Non-German speakers.
Even if all of the most serious allegations are false, I think the system of recruiting so many very young women in sort of an assembly line is not where we should be in 2023. It sounds like a lot of that system has been shut down by the band, which I guess is some sort of progress. But I think there is more investigation by the authorities needed.
Till is innocent...as a german female fan since 20 years i felt that he is very quiet and auf.. i was on 5 Rammstein shows and hes a very good actor in stage not behind ❤
Ive never heard from Kayla shyx cause i dont believe in influencers...😅😅😂
I've honestly been to a lot of backstage areas, and I haven't had that experience. The idea that that's just how it is is a bit concerning to me, tbh.
same, I find it VERY disturbing. Like women who go backstage are meat. No, a lot of bands treat their fans respectful. Not only groupies go back stage, also the die hard fans. I went back stage with Anthrax and we had a blast. Nothing sexual. There are ofcourse bands who are into that stuff. But NO means NO. Also back stage. I am not refering to this case, just in general.
@@monicacarolina6480 I mean, how many of these diehard superfans are guys going backstage with the band? Legitimate question, I have no idea. But if you're looking at a 9/10 ratio of girls, I'm going to say while tank's right that you should never have to enter a place under the assumption that it's going to be unsafe and dangerous, if I enter a BDSM club, I enter knowing I'm likely to have my sensibilities offended. Not a 1 to 1 comparison, but you get my drift.
@@humblekek-fearingman7238 That's a bit of an odd comparison. You know what happens in a BDSM club and if you don't like BDSM, why would you enter it? And BDSM is big on SSC (safe, sane, consensual).
Meanwhile, going backstage... there's no sign there that says "sex from this point". People can go backstage for all kinds of reasons. Wanting to meet their idols does not equate to wanting to fuck those idols. And if anyone wants to engage in anything sexual, they need to ask for consent first. Going backstage is not consent.
There's probably guys going backstage too, people just prefer to look at women who do it because, yes, there's a big undercurrent of misogyny in this debate. Or not so under... some people in this comment section are proof of how bad it gets, acting as if going backstage is in itself consent to sex.
This may just be my neurodivergency, but if a band I liked asked me to go backstage, I would not immediately think of sex? I'd want to talk shop with them because I love creative work. This idea that "everyone knows what going backstage means" is really inaccurate and just further maligns women who come forward about having been abused.
And it's this bad for the women who have been abused. I can only imagine how hard it is for the men who have been abused. Because that absolutely happens too.
There's just something very sick in the concert industry that we need to contend with. Everyone deserves to be safe.
@@monicacarolina6480 Oh yeah, most of them just like to be admired and to not feel isolated from their audience. If everyone is having a blast in the audience and you're sitting alone backstage, that can feel lonely. I've literally sat with the bassist of one of my favourite bands for hours while he talked about his wife's cancer diagnosis. Touring is tough, even if it is a lot of fun.
@@TheYasmineFlower
YES thank you, I don't like the double standards of that, I want to be treated like a human being regardless of my gender, there's several girls and people in general that want to go backstage and to after parties with their significant other or just because they're fans and want to engage in a convo, not everything is about sex!
same, i am also neurodivergent and i don't get the "read between lines", people have to be clear with their intentions if they're gonna engage in sexual activity, the consent has to be explicit and not just expect someone to know that they're going into
The authorities in Lithuania have stopped their investigatinons, but actually the German authorities have been investigating Till for some time now and they are continuing to do that. Sadly: I think it does not matter what they will find out at this point, as much of the damage to the reputation of the band has already been done.
I agree. It's important for everyone to remember that the Berlin investigation is solely based on third party accounts and stories from people online (per Till's lawyer's statement), and not from people coming forward and filing reports. But I believe you're right in saying a lot of the damage to the reputation of the band has been done. (I know this video isn't live yet, but as you'll see, I think we all need to just let everything play out and see where it goes from here.)
Guilty until proven otherwise. Pray this never happens to any of you.
@@joeyvanostrand3655 it's called innocent until proofen guilty. and so far no one is found guilty
@@mauke90he means getting canceled based on just allegations. Pretty common nowadays.
They have been investigating based on reports from Kayla and Shelby and other media stuff. They will find the same
Is it ethically to tell a bad story about another person, without any proof?
There is a german sentence "Wash me, but don't make me wet", which always comes to my mind, when people dress up and visit special events (men as well as women) and than later say: "I didn't want what happened there."
An old neighbor said several times "Profit from disaster."
With the controversy, Rammstein has several albums that re-entered the German Top 100 Charts.
Accurate statement to bring up. Look what happened to Morgan Wallen. Dude was on the verge of being fully cancelled and now he’s the #1 country artist on the planet.
@@TankTheTech That CAN happen ...
@@TankTheTechThe old adage never fails! NO PRESS is bad press!
That might at least partly be because of the on-going tour. When f.ex. Metallica comes to Finland, their albums re-enter the charts here.
Nowadays album sales are very low compared to 80s or 90s, so entering charts does not mean anything. An album with a few thousand copies sold can be #1 in most of countries.
Said it since it came out Till did nothing wrong. Justice was served. When the main accused person puts "the person that was drugged at a Rammstein concert" in her bio I knew it was BS
I love Feli!!i.. she is a no BS, non-click bait content creator.
They can't do shit about Kayla's video. All she did was describe her experiences. There's a german lawyer channel similar to legal eagle i guess called wbs legal and the dude went over it and basically said that as long as she's describing what she has seen there's nothing to sue over.
I mean, doesn’t defamation necessitate that the statement is untrue? Isn’t the point that they would accuse her of lying or exaggerating
She tried to tie herself to the allegations in a cynical and speculative way with nothing to show for it, one big nothingburger
Thats not exactly what he said. He said she does not have to sue TL, because laywers will do that automatically for her and all the other ones. Laywers have to investigate to make sure no crime took place.
All the statements / chats / and events happening over time are / were investigated by media, and now laywers.
That's not going to stop lawyers from trying to bully someone in to doing what they want. Threats and legal costs can be just as prohibitive as actual legal judgements.
@@robertstull8759 Read up on the UK defamation laws, they exist for a reason and I'm confident these allegations will end up in a UK court post-investigation
Shelby never Claimed, that Till raped her or those bruises came from him! The only Claim was that she was drugged at the Rammstein Concert probably by Till!
So i don't know what Tills Lawyers talk about!
And why do many Women go to the Public instead of the Police? Well because Victim Blaming still happen like hell even here in freaking Germany! Especially if we talk about sexual harassment and or Stalking!
I know 2 cases from my close friends! Both been raped! But because they go to the police a couple days later than the incident because they are in fucking shock. No evidence could be charged! Words again Words!
I know 3 cases of Rape Drugs and only 1 of it was actually filled by the police but still was useless in the End because not enough evidence! Yes she was druged but we dont know more so case dropped!
So no surprise that Victims rarely going to the police/Lawyer at first and lets not forget a lawsuit is expensive!
"they should know better"
we are talking about young women, some barely 18... being naive is not an excuse for the alleged shit, that is called "victim blaming" and is in the category of "look how she is dressed" as an excuse for rape... and even if Till is innocent, having a set up that makes people this uncomfortable is a falure of his (and his staff) and not of the girls.
also if those allegations are true, they are activly lied to and heavily pressured, young people are fairly easily scared in those situations, hell, even older people are. thats why legally it counts as rape (in most western countries) to pressure someone to perform sexual acts.
Feli from Germany is amazing! Great call out.
You wanna bet there's a whole bunch of other bands suddenly re-evaluating their own backstage activities. Not mentioning any names...🤔
something I mentioned on Feli's video: let's pretend for a second that the things alleged to be happening actually are. Mentioned are groups of 8-10 women, contacted before the show, told what to wear, all of whom being drugged. sex acts under the stage, before the show, then during the after-party... that's claiming one man is having 12 sexual encounters within FOUR hours? that right there is enough to put serious doubt in my mind, and sure maybe he's not "finishing" with all of them, but still that's assuming he's "finishing" with at least 2, one right before going on stage? and then your left with the rest of those women drugged for no reason, and an entire team of people who are all in on it, not all of him actually work for the band: claims of security being told to watch out for potential victims... that's a lot of places where that can all all go wrong, too elaborate, to many people involved, and because of that something like this would have been exposed looooong ago.
From watching Feli's video carefully and reading the messages she put on the screen, it is alleged that he picks out one or two of the girls for sex. Kind of like picking the ones he liked best out of a line up. Also, I don't think anyone said that he was doing ALL of these sex acts every show.
There are plenty of cases where multiple people are involved with enabling the sort or behaviour in the accusations here. For example, all the people around Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislane Maxwell (not that I'm comparing Till to Jeffrey epstein - it's just an example to show it's not impossible for multiple people to be involved for a long time without it becoming common knowledge). I don't think the accusations are implausible on the grounds you are stating.
If Lindemann is guilty or not will be of course decided by a court (if it comes so far). But I am afraid it is a very difficult situation, because KO drugs are only traceable for 12 hours after the intake and to figure out what happened in rooms behind the stage will be also probably impossible to assess.
That being said: Lindemann has all the resources to have a big Rammstein fetish/sex party after the concert. Nonetheless he decided to employ people like Makeeva, who recruited girls for him from the concerts (but also other places). And apparently transparency was really not important while doing so, but more his power position, which he (ab-)used for it. Yes, its not illegal, but he really doesnt get any brownie points in my eyes for pulling off such crap to say the least. Quite the opposite...
Yeah, if you have the chance to legally get lots of women who want to have sex with you, then why do you create such a system? That’s highly problematic from my point of view.
1:55 wow..... If you point out here that you should have used another channel, that really did investigative work, who spoke to people who were there, instead of just summarizing the tabloid, you get reported here for "Spam, deceptive practices and fraud" 😂😂... Wow...
I see how freedom of expression is protected.and how much interest there is, discovering the truth
but to simply claim that this or that happened at concerts, what isn't proved, no witnesses, no nothing, that seems to be okay 👍👍👍
P. S. Feli from Germany made a video about the allegations, which were without evidence, but she did not later report that all allegations had been dropped by the police and public prosecutor in Europe / Germany...
Like so many other channels, it only reported on one side and not about what came out afterwards.
and I thought they were interested in the truth? but then they only reported on the allegations and not on the results of the police and the public prosecutor's office.... Yeah
You're right, just because you're at a backstage aftershow party shouldn't mean anything goes. But by her own statement, it's not that way. Till asked her, she said no, he left. That alone clearly differentiates it from the "she shouldn't have been wearing that" type of argument. It's a Rammstein aftershow party. It's rough and rowdy and things happen there. Many women who go there end up having sex with bandmembers. But that's why they go there. Let's not pretend that's not also a factor here. And still, anyone at those parties is free to get up and leave at any point in time. Nobody stops you. There's a security guy who comes up to you and asks if you're leaving and if you say yes, he shows you out (Because if you don't know your way around the backstage area, there's a decent chance you'll get lost at some of those arenas).
Here’s what’s troubling though. According to the allegations, there are two events constituting or presented as “after parties.”
One, a formal event where invitees/attendees included the rich and famous, public celebrities with a DJ, music and dancing etc.
Then there was a separate “party” where only females were in attendance. Females carefully selected by the band’s representative. This is a source of problems.
The women/girls making allegations seem to point up the fact that they were never given entree into the “main” party but rather were ushered into a secluded room away from any post concert festivities.
The next level of seriousness involves use of drugs to incapacitate. Hard to prove given many of these drugs don’t remain in the body or are not easily detectable.
My guess is the authorities have evidence the girls were “groomed” for something.
At the least being coerced and cajoled into some kind of sex with Lindemann.
Likely communications between the bands representatives and the girls are easily discovered/corroborated. That most reports mention drugs indicates “coerced” and “cajoled” may have risen in seriousness to “forced.”
So it is best to wait for the police report and/or action.
@@JohnLnyc It's not really a secret that Till has his own afterparties. It's also common knowledge among fans that they effectively resemble an Orgy and have done so for decades.
All of this goes to say that if you're getting invited to Till Lindemann's afterparty, you KNOW what you're getting invited to. (the promoters also invite you explicidly to his party and NOT the bands party) And even keeping that in mind, by her own admission when she said no, he backed off. No coersion, no cajoling and no force. I'm not sure how much safer it's supposed to get.
However, she passed out and that's fair enough as a reason to worry. That doesn't mean that drugs were involved though. Given that no evidence, neither physical nor toxicologically, was found, there's a high chance she passed out from a combination of exhaustion, dehydration, heat and/or alcohol. And that's rather common at these types of event, be it during the concert or an afterparty.
So far, all we know is that she passed out at that party, has been crying wolf ever since and is continuing to do so, even with every test so far coming in with either negative results or no results whatsoever. There isn't a single piece of evidence that supports her being assaulted, forced, drugged or raped. Yet Till's career, reputation, public image and future remain in the public crosshairs because he parties hard?
Drug use in general is concerning but that's not an issue exclusive to his parties, or Rammstein in general. It's an industry-wide problem and needs to be adressed as such. There's an not insignificant number of people who arrive at these kinds of concerts high as a kite and dealers make a fortune in the crowds.
@@timokampwerth1996 First, the initial complainant has openly stated she was not raped. Maybe Till’s parties were common knowledge among some fans. It seems to me many were not aware of the “orgy” aspect. Obviously, any evidence women were “drugged” so they could be taken advantage of erases the defense they knew what they were getting into or were aware of what was really going on.
And we really have no idea of how many have come forward. Apparently these complaints are anonymous, the names only known by prosecutors. Use of drugs adds to this.
My guess is there are enough people involved with the band and production who know what was going on, good or bad. They will all likely be interviewed.
If people have genuine stories, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't go to police. The process for doing so is horrible and quite often the circumstances just mean there isn't enough evidence. Also, I think "people know what goes on backstage" is a bit of an assumption based on a culture that is pretty outdated. Younger women especially will not be expecting to be used for sex in a post MeToo era. No idea what has happened with Rammstein but these factors remain.
I don’t know if we can call this a post metoo era, it is pretty recent and most of those in show business are still the same people. If anything MeToo should have made women more aware of the dangers.
Having watched a couple of hundred women in the fire zone and zero zone pull their tits out at Rammstein gigs, the whole not down to non-committal Fk’n isn’t a thing.
Shelby and Kayla appear to want to have everyone’s cake and eat it too.
Are they really that naive when they hoe around the internet every day?
I think it's important to repeat that in a lot of these situations abusers (regardless of if Lindemann did or didn't do this) specifically target young people who are a lot more likely to be naive of the long history of abuse in rock music and who are a lot less likely to believe the allegations or take them seriously, because the folly of youth always says "it'll never happen to me" until it does.
Regardless, that doesn't excuse the abuser just because the victim should have known better. We prosecute con artists and thieves, even if their victims should have known better than to trust them. We don't blame murder victims if they're in the "wrong part of town". We treat thieves and murders as criminals regardless, so why do not do the same with SA victims? That's a hypothetical question. I have my hypothesis that I won't go into here.
I also completely concur with you about "not going to the police". I can't speak for anywhere but the USA, but in the States police rarely take those allegations seriously even if you've gone to the ER and gotten a r@p3 kit procedure. As Feli points out in her video, most of these legal investigations only get started AFTER there's been a media investigation and they're pressured into it.
I wanted to write something like this but struggled to word it well. Thanks to you, I don't need to. Well written
I still think Till is innocent. Until I see some real evidence that’s my stance. I don’t bow down to this culture of assuming your guilty first
I know it's random and off topic, but I really appreciate you're at least trying to pronounce foreign words correct way (you once mentioned you've been learning German, right?). As an European, it's my pet peeve hearing American youtubers who don't give a damn about foreign languages, saying whatever and then they're like "I hope I said it right". No Mister, you didn't 😂
Relax Mister Sister
There are two sides of this: the legal issue and the ethical one. Legal has to be decided by judges and experts. The ethical point of view is much harder to clarify. And tbh this is not going away anyways. Whatever happened during this parties might not be legally problematic, but might still be ethical questionable.
And as long as Till shows no sign of being sorry for people feeling unwell at or after his parties, that's one of the most important signs he doesn't really care about the people at his parties.
If you knew someone felt violated after attending your party, would you not at least care? Even if you didn't feel like doing anything wrong, ethically or legally.
... and ethics are to be decided in every single individual ! -
They are having a wild party in one of the back rooms. I'm sure they had a great time. If they feel bad after they leave there is nothing he can do.
I once went to a concert and spent all my last money for booze. The next day was awful and I had next to nothing to eat. And it's still my fault that I went there. And did what I did
@@BannschwertHe feels no remorse for what he puts his bandmates through on stage and in music videos especially Flake. Or the girls in his solo project videos, such as Till the End and Einz Plat, who looked drugged to me. I doubt islf they agreed to everything beforehand in detail. They are hard porn as opposed to Rammstein's Pussy video which is more 70s style soft porn. Or the children in the Rammstein videos such as Engel, Dicke Titten, and Mein Hertz Brennt.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolie Well, I am going to have to assume you have been living as a man, women at times are not expected to have agency.
I think you are missing the point. It's one thing to go backstage. But it's another thing if person lied there isn't going to be sex. Then to find out the singer wanted sex. Or to be drugged to have sex without consent. If Till is getting girls to have sex with, without their knowledge that is a crime and is an issue.
Innocent until proven guilty applies to both sides, Till and Rammstein on one side and the women that make these accusations on the other side. We simply don't know what really happened. Maybe we will know the truth after the investigation, but the chances are high that we will never know the truth.
But i see very often comments of people who simply believe Till and accuse the women that they are lying and then i remember a thing that my father always said "If you want to believe, then go to church, because that's the only place where you can elevate things you believe to facts without looking like a complete idiot".
plenty, and social media and the law, believe the man is guilty first. i see HUNDREDS of comments one sided against men every single day, simply based on a few words. zero investigation. looks like things are evening out, except the accused will have the accusation over his head for the rest of his life even if innocent and cleared. that surely is not fair or right.
They are not equivalent. She’s making an accusation so she automatically has the burden of proof.
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 she doesn't have to prove it to you, me or any other wannabe Judge in the internet. She has to tell her story to the police and they will look if there is evidence for a crime or not and even if they don't find any evidence then that doesn't mean she is lying = both are innocent until proven guilty.
@@BerndFunken if no evidence is found it should most definitely be treated as her lying, and more than that, as false crime charge, reputation destruction, lying to justice, and she should pay for all the legal bills he had, a huge atonement and go to prison for a couple decades
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 That is just ridiculous. False accusations are definitely not something to take lightly but scaring actual victims from reporting what has happened or what they believe has happened isn't a solution either. It's very likely not to find solid proof in sexual assault cases, especially if reporting took a while, but it doesn't mean anyone needs to be punished beyond reasonable means. Looking into the allegations is important. Legal bills could be charged as they are in many other types of cases but prison time or any extra punishment for not finding the accused guilty is just madness. Completely different case if there would be counter evidence showing the fraud, like messages between friends proving it to be planned sabotage or publicity stunt.
Like said. innocent till proven otherwise. it does go both ways. Have to remember that people don't have access to all potential evidence that police could get to, like cameras, phone records of accused, witnesses etc. You can only get there by reporting a potential crime to be investigated and potential victims should be given a chance to try at getting justice. Without further evidence it's word against word but on the flip side it might also be that none of these prove to be helpful and you are back to the starting point with only your word left. But lack of evidence doesn't equal fraud. It just mean we don't know enough to reach conclusions. Personally I think it's as inhumane to mark Till as guilty as it is to claim that the girl is lying unless there is proof of either case.
It sucks that such cases cause harm to accused even if they aren't found guilty but issue lies within our ways of thinking and click bait/opinion driven media coverage rather than in the accuser. If people would learn to look things objectively and not insert themselves into shoes of either side the damage wouldn't be there. Other than waste of time and money but that's given till someone finds a justice system that isn't heavy on the wallets...
the problem with Internet, it has become frontier justice. Every one is just accusing without knowing.
Been following Feli for a few years. She has GREAT content.
For me its kinda easy.
You cant prove or deny what the girls said and that is what will save til at the end anyway. So from a legal point its hard to prove that these things happened but that doesnt mean they didnt. Their have been several woman who spoke up after ppl like kayla used her reach and talked about it.
So even if til gets legally proven not guilty why should dozen of woman speak up and let them put in the spot light of the some ppl he send then death Threads and other stuff afterwards. Some even did their accusations under oath, so they can legally charged when they lie. This woman dont get anything out of it. No fame,no money nothing. So why should dozen of woman world wide without private Connection to each other speak up against one man.
As said this stuff is hard to prove so til will most likely get out of this but is he really not guilty?
to be completely accurate, she never claimed that she was physically abused.... she stated that she had weird reactions to drinks she got offered which also caused a gap in her memory and that she does not remember where the bruises came from.... she never claimed she was abused or assulted, at the very most, you could interpret her statement as an implication, but that still requires quite some interpretation by the viewer
Personally, I didn't think the last video was tabloidy, I thought it was balanced while explaining these types of situations do happen on tours. I always appreciate your perspective on all things music and touring. As I said in my previous comment on the last video, any accusations should be investigated and if there is any credible evidence, the accused should have their day in court.
I still don't know how to think about this, to be honest. The whole thing just feels kind of icky, for lack of a better word. My gut instinct when someone says that they've been assaulted by someone famous is to give them the benefit of the doubt. Power dynamics are a very real thing, and you don't have to look too hard to find celebrities who have abused them to get what they want. At the same time, we have to respect due process. The idea that someone should be considered innocent until they're proven guilty isn't just a talking point. Or at least, it shouldn't be. The whole concept of justice falls apart without it.
Can you even imagine how many people commit crimes but are never found guilty? I'm not saying this is the case here at all but I'm really tired of people acting like someone who hasn't been found guilty is definitely innocent.
@@juliab9596 And do you know how many people are innocent, yet still were punished for a crime they didn't commit? Which is worse, in your eyes -- an innocent person being punished, or a guilty one getting away with it?
@@juliab9596and how are they supposed to act then? Especially when there's little to no evidence supporting the idea thag the person accused did do the things they say they did, like bruh what you're basically saying is we should all immediately assume everyone is likely guilty of whatever they're being accused of without knowing nearly enough to form an opinion/verdict, that's a huge disrespect to the amount of people who have been punished for crimes they didn't commit
This is why we can't have nice things. Can't we all just eat pizza rolls and play with our Hot Wheels together in peace? Is that asking too much? 😂
@@darksu6947 God, you had to bring up pizza rolls while I'm too drunk to run to the store.
Feli from Germany's content is always incredibly well thought out, well presented, entertaining and fun. If you are interested in German culture and language and a non-native's perspective on the U.S., I highly recommend her channel. Not just for the excellent episode she did regarding this story.
You must heard from us German people, cause we are arrogant holy people who just believe what other saying..and be not better than other...Thats what i hate about my culture...Rammstein mirrors our bad actions for 30 years and they are the best thing what happened to our Country ever❤❤❤❤
So hold up. It was found that:
1: She wasn't drugged
2: the bruises weren't indicative of physical abuse
3: She literally says that Till did not touch her
And people still want to lynch Lindemann and destroy Rammstein for the non-crime of asking a woman if she wants to have sex and then leaving when she said no? Am I missing something here, or has this planet fully transformed into cancer?
Sadly, the planet has fully transformed into cancer.
Bruh thats just wrong. Dont insult cancer like that. Its bad but not as bad as the world is
@@wowarchershirou lmao noted
this is spot on
No.
1. Lindemann has a casting director that recruits women.
2. These women get invited to "special" aftershow parties.
3. If they ask if its a sex thing, they get told no.
4. Its a sex thing.
5. Are the drinks there spiked? That would be criminal and its the only part, they DENY.
6. Maybe shelby had interaction w her meds, maybe she was spiked. Others reported similar things though. We do not know. We cannot proove now whether shelby was drugged or not.
How ok you are w the sex system, drugs or not, thats for you to know.
Very much respect you not wanting to cover topics like this more. Thank you for explaining what's happening so far, you've made it very easy to understand the main current points
Can highly recomed Filie's video and her channel in general I Have been a subscribed for ages now
I would dissent in one important point.
For one I find it highly dubious that a doctor, even if paid by the defendant's lawyers, even tries to make an assessment from what boils down to 3 poorly lit photographs.
And even then when you read the original text of the doctor's statement and not the lawyer's letter, it all boils down to it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way.
The lawyers then turn this around into absolutely no proof for violence.
This!
All they are saying is violence can *probably* be ruled out, did you even listen?
Well, technically the prosecution / the person making allegations has to prove that there was a punishable offence, not the defendant the absence thereof. It is therefore completely legit for the defending party to present a doctor's expertise which states that there is no conclusive evidence of any deliberate injuries.
@@darkawakening01 The doctor didn't totally rule out deliberate injuries. Plus his "expertise" would not be admissible in court - you cannot take his judgement seriously as he only looked at badly taken photographs, not the wounds themselves.
"it's 100% inconclusive and can't be determined either way"
Right, which is why that information tells us nothing about what did or didn't happen. The statements from lawyers also do not constitute evidence either. I think because of the harm that was caused (if the allegations are true), the potential future harm, and the fact that the statements don't vindicate Lindemann, taken together means this needs a serious ongoing criminal investigation.
Don't feel bad about your last video. I think you have done a great job covering this story. Thank you for it all and your hard work brother
In the video of Kayla and from what shelby said. They said that they didn't want anything sexual interaction with till.
And the guy who brought them there was saying none of that would happen.
Either way shelby met till "prepared" in that room.
And I also think that saying "the women shouldnt be so naive" isn't gonna help the existing problem of the culture.
15:31
Yeah, seriously. Not everyone knows that stuff. Especially younger girls just getting into metal. Every metalhead I know has a fair amount of childhood damage, which can make us trust the wrong people until we learn better. Pretty shit take from Tank on that note.
I love that everyone's approach is "women should be prepared, they know what's going to happen!" and not "men need to learn to be f___ng respectful and keep their hands to themselves!" You're in a good band. Whoop de doo. That does NOT entitle you to anyone else's body and you should stop thinking that because you can sing you get to stick your dick in random people. Men are so pathetic.
Also, some people genuinely just want to party and meet the band. I see a lot of victim blamers saying that the girls should have known what they were getting into... That makes me mad
@@nunpho If you go backstage it's because you want something from the band. It's a transaction. You don't get to be surprised when you want something from someone and they might want something from you.
@@MykeLewisMusic you sound like a predator.
Looks like MeToo strikes again!!! 1 person tells a story, then all of a sudden 20 "find the strength to tell THEIR truth!!". And, tank, it's not hard to figure out WHY people would come forward, $$$$$$$. Come on son, you know that too. And can anyone answer me who wins here, if she's telling the truth, she's a victim and he needs to go to jail, FOREVER, BUT, if she's lying, nothing happens to her besides bring called a liar liar pants on fire, but he still is gonna lose his career, and people are gonna say he's a r@p!st!! Thats the fact, he is absolutely in a no win situation and his career is 100% over. So, I think laws need to be put into place where if you make an a false accusation, it's the equivalent to whatever they accused someone of. So, you accused someone of SA, And that's a 20 yr sentence or whatever, that's what your jail sentence is now. Just as I believe women should be protected from psychos, men should ABSOLUTELY be protected from lies. Let's say for arguments sake, that she's lying,DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT RAMMSTEIN WILL EVER BE ABLE TO TOUR on the level they are now? No. Just no. You know as well as I do, it's over. Period. Can you just imagine how many people someone who lied affected? Not even counting the band, all the merchandisers, the people who sell this stuff at shows, the road crew, who, if you've ever seen a rammstein concert must surely being in the dozens upon dozens. The bands families, children, who, will now be associated with a whole band of assaulted, cause you know how kids are!!! I mean, when someone makes an accusation like this, even though it's a solo thing to them, but, it's not a solo thing to who it's accused against. I'm to the point where I don't know if I want it to be true or not. (I mean obviously I would never want to see someone who's been hurt) what I mean is strictly from an outcome scenario. But, if he did it, he goes to jail I guess. But everyone else is destroyed. And, if it didn't happen, everyone's still destroyed. Except for her.
No, you need to prove malicious prosecution or defamation.
@nimrodery So you need to prove that someone's accusations destroyed your life? Even if it turns out to be a total lie? Like, let's look at Amber Huard. She TOTALLY lied, and did everything she could to play victim. Had she not hired such a cluster **** group of lawyers, there would still be people who thinks all this stuff happened to her. (And there actually are still some). But, everyone went into that case already having Depp guilty. He had pretty much lost his career at that point. And what did everyone base their opinion on? Amber's word. This is my point, people need to understand that people lie for all kinds of reasons, to get rich, to get even, to gain fame, and sometimes they just lie to become a victim so they can get the attention and pity that comes with it. We as a society need to start realizing that people like this exist. And not immediately jump to guilt before hearing all the REAL EVIDENCE.
Rammstein is extremely litigious. None of this is shocking legally. They have more money and lawyers. Unless there's a smoking gun, he'll continue to rape women if he wants to do it and has done it without any consequences. How long did Weinstein get away with it? And this isn't me saying he's guilty. I'm just saying that in the end, even if he is, he's unlikely to face legal consequences. Also, saying that young girls going to a party get what they deserve if they get raped is saying it's a victim's fault if they get raped and that is never true. If you think it is? You might need to check your male privilege.
Which is why we need to crowd fund for better lawyers for the victims not let them rely on lawyers doing pro bono work. The higher up and more famous the more they get away with bad behaviour until the general public turns against them. Same with Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris and Ian Watkins.
You are very good at covering these topics and promoting healthy discussions. Your channel evolution has been really awesome to see.
Great video Tank, I am waiting to see how this plays out and if no-one has come forward to the police at this point it does look better from Til's perspective than some of the news outlets are making out. I do still find the statement from the drummer (or PR / Lawyers posting as the drummer) to be at least a little damning.
On the going backstage thing, ok people know what thats about and you possibly know that the question will be asked but it does not remove the persons right to deny consent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is taking the "she was wearing a short skirt so she was asking for it" approach which is just disgusting.
The drummer has not distanced himself from Till in any way. Again, that's just how it's interpreted. He simply says that he doesn't know what Till is doing when he's not there. No one knows what someone else is doing if they are not there.
My mother went on vacation alone. I have no idea what she's doing there. But I'm sure she's not doing anything illegal. I'm not distancing myself from my mother. And that's exactly what Schneider said. That's it.
@@TomTomson81 He literally said that he distances himself from Till's parties, though?
@@Scheater1337es, because they are not present at these parties. He also said that he was sure that there was nothing illegal going on.
All he is saying is that he doesn't like such parties. He distances himself from the parties and not from Till. When I distance myself from someone, I don't defend them.
@@TomTomson81 Well, to be precise, he wrote that Till distanced himself from the band in recent years. So if you want to argue about semantics here, I guess I can give you that point... I don't think it makes any difference in this context, though. Either way, there is a bigger distance between them and Till now than before.
@@TomTomson81 "It is also important to us that Till’s parties are not confused with our official after-show parties.Till has distanced himself from us in recent years and created his own bubble, with their own people, their own parties, their own projects."
That's not an interpretation. That's a direct quote from his statement.
The German police are doing the right thing by continuing the investigation. These are serious claims that need to be investigated fully.
EDIT: I'm waiting for Till Lindemann's ukulele apology video
You are right, but also expect a legal blowback if the allegations are proven false
He left did not touch her than NO CRIME!!!
I have a question about this topic, about the music industry.
Could a band member of Rammstein just say they do not keep on playing the tour, because of everything that happend? Do they have to pay a fine?
Who loses money if Till would be arrested, if the tour has to be canceld? Could he be responsible for that?
Would be interesting to know how these things work behind the scenes.
All depends on how their business as a band is set up.
Why should they stop the tour? Literally no one cares. Tickets given back per concert are only in the dubble digits (normal for concerts this size). The only people making this a big thing are some angry feminists that believe every accusation without a doubt.
Unless that band member fell very ill on tour or had a family emergency otherwise they would have to keep playing those concerts.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolie When dozens of women come forward with very similar stories about what Till did to them, then yes, they should be believed.
But people like you are why feminists are angry. What a nice world we are living in, in which men and their cronies rally around this millionaire rockstar who can afford high-powered attorneys, to defend this poor man from average women who are reporting being harrassed, assaulted and pressured and who are being insulted by people like you in comment sections like these.
You're appropriately named. You're just full of air but otherwise empty.
@@TheLuftpolsterfolieNobody suggested they stop. All that was asked was a simple question of what would happen if they did.
Great video. As a 52 year old woman, I was planning on seeing Rammstein in Budapest when I visit family in a couple of weeks. Also, as a woman who was a teen during the 80's, who loved "Hair Bands" I would try to sneak back stage to meet my favorite bands. The giving of back stage passes to women for sex has been going on for many years before our time. I knew at 15 exactly what was going on. I don't know how this translates to grooming someone, but also it doesn't matter who you are you should always treat someone with respect, and provide a safe environment. I also believe in innocent until proven guilty. I think I will go see them in Budapest.
Saw them 3 weeks ago in Munich, it was fantastic. Hope you have a great time if you go. Especially if it turns out to be the last tour. Innocent until proven guilty!
Well said! I wouldn’t have said it (being a man) but an invite backstage isn’t the hardest code to break and work out what it means. It’s gone on since rock and roll was invented and probably well before that too, hell Elvis was terrible for it, it’s been well reported, so no way someone doesn’t know what’s going on. Ironically while typing this, an ad for Motly Crue’s tour came up, can you imagine how many girls went back stage with them 😳
I believe Tills innocent. I think he’s into the kink lifestyles but that doesn’t make him a predator.
And quite Frankly I highly doubt Lindemann is struggling to get laid. Even at 60!
The woke media is sounding like they have never heard of groupies and never heard of groupies having sex with musicians. They are women. They are of age. They have brains. Normally the women actually like the musicians otherwise they wouldn't try get backstage for fks sake. None of these woman have gone to the police except for Shelby and her story has more holes in it than the titanic when it struck the ice burg in 1912.
Her accusation won't even make it to court because it'll fall apart.
@@Yosser70 Oh yeah, let's blame the victims because they forgot that all men are apparently creeps who can only think of sex all the time and have no self control? You seemed to have missed the part where Rammstein also had backstage parties that were not meant as orgies.
Important detail imo; Till's party is not the same as the standard afterparty that takes place. The drummer made a statement about it that Till and them separated a years ago in regards to the parties.
Most of the Row 0 girls think they will be going to the band's parties. There is one other band member sometimes present at Till's parties. It was mentioned the guitarist but which one?
@@lemsip207 Richard Kruspe
@@sany9444 Thanks. Someone on the Colonel Kurtz channel said it was Paul but they look a bit similar so easy to get confused.
@@lemsip207 Spiegel_10.06.2023 -
Google-Translator:
"Once, after a concert in Munich 2019, W. remembers it at the after-after show party a loud argument between Lindemann and guitarist Richard Kruspe came. You could have felt the same Girls selected for sex and yelled at each other, saying the woman, who was around 20, seemed distraught."
separated years ago? sounds weird because they still a band. hope that this is false claims but feels a bit strange so might be some truth in them sadly.
In today's world your guilty till proven innocent 🤷♂️
Shelby Smollett!
😆😆😆
Authorities in Lithuania dropping their investigation might be a win for Till's lawyers, but I wouldn't put too much weight on that. We don't know how well the Lithuanian police are at investigating sexual assault, in most western countries police are pretty terrible at it. This might just be the usual case of not having any interest nor leads.
The same goes for no women in Germany coming forwards: The German legal system has an extremely low conviction rate for sexual abuse plus the legal processes are often heavily traumatizing for the victims. Add on that the media interest in *your* case and having to go against one of the most powerful and rich Germans... that's not something people will put themselves through willingly.
And to that we have to add, that the system around Till, as it is described by the victims, is pretty safe for him. He is not the one handing out drinks and foods or drugs at those parties, he's not the one influencing women beforehand. So it's pretty hard to prove that he did anything illegal without his pimps accusing him directly. As there are so many women talking about having no memories, it's also impossible for them to say what really happened besides "feelings" which also means that's irrellevant in court. Lastly KO-drops are impossible to find in your blood after a day, so if you're not extremely quick to react and also suspect being drugged with them, it's not possible to find them as proof.
Overall it looks pretty dire in a legal situation. I think the more important part is the social situation and the communication Till and his lawyers choose.
There is no denying the Row 0, there is no denying alcohol and basically pimping girls and there was not a single comment of regret should women have felt unwelcome with him. He doesn't care about that, he only wants to be safe legally.
And regarding "they should have known" - No! Simply no. That's fucking mysoginistic. Women don't have to ever expect people only care for them in a sexual way. Sure there are stories about Rock Stars, Groupies and after show parties, but that's not an excuse. Plus at least Shelby asked multiple times if it was about sex and always was told "no it's just a fun party". So this was simply manipulation.
Is it okay to have sex with fans? Sure. Should you do it, as you are in a clear position of power and influence over them? Well that's your own choice. But that culture of basically manipulating women to party with you, get them drunk and then just being interested in them as sex objects is disgusting no matter what bands do that. And the more people know about it, the harder it will be to defend.
Shelby eventually said on Twitter Til didn’t lay a single finger on her.
Yet she implied in a series of TikTok videos: she had been Drugged, Beaten and Raped.
Though her now deleted friends and exboyfriend statements on Instagram was rather telling ‘..She has a tendency to make shit up..’
KO can be detected in hair up to a month after.
Heres a question why do you think the band would want to hang out back stage with women they dont know if sex isn't part of the equation? its kind of stupid of these women to think they are owed the opportunity to go back stage unless they have something to offer what do they think the band is just interested their conversation and to hangout its possible sometimes sure but highly unlikely . You can think its gross all you want but human kind are selfishly motivated by nature and the reality is if you don't have anything to offer then you are not worth the time. I'm not saying it's right or that I agree with it but it is the reality of most interactions.
Well said.
Thank you for outlining the underlying issues. It's not as easy as demanding proof for crimes that are notoriously hard to prove and have such a horrendously low conviction rate. So many people mistake a lack of evidence as proof that a victim lied and the perpetrator did nothing wrong. And all the fans that go, 'well, I'm waiting for real evidence because real victims would have it' are just lying to themselves to maintain the status quo. Shelby never accused Lindemann directly and she never claimed that he assaulted her but the police not investigating further is seen as some huge win for him, when really, she only exposed the exploitative system he had been benefiting from for years.
@@ironblast5 Would you ask the same question if they invited male fans to party afterwards?
I hate these days, everyone is so over reactionary and even when they're proven wrong they still double down.
Credible accusations of sexual abuse/assault should always be taken seriously. But accusations on social media with no medical proof should never be taken at face value. As a society, we are moving in a deeply troubling direction, towards 'mob rule', where anyone can make any kind of accusation online now, and society stands ready to condemn the accused with no form of due process of any kind.
Everybody lies, people. The correct statement of affairs is not "believe women", but rather "take women seriously". The problem has always been that women are too often simply dismissed when they bring up sexual impropriety. That is what's wrong, and what needs to stop. But to swing too far the other way, and just believe any allegation without investigation or defense, is a very, very dangerous road to go down as a society. Anyone can be falsely accused. What's next, lynching parties every time some girl doesn't want to admit to daddy that she got wasted and sucked off a rockstar?
Look, Till is a notorious party animal and sex fiend. And Rammstein has always been a band that likes to indulge in the sex, drugs, and rock and roll of it all. Their reputation doesn't help them here. Any and all accusations should be taken seriously and be investigated. And if found guilty, Till should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
But we cannot, must not, become a society that no longer values the principle that everyone is innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Absent such proof, I suppose everyone has to choose for themselves which side they want to err on...
For me, I find it suspect that a woman who genuinely believes she has been abused while unconscious, would post about it on social media rather than take the matter to the authorities. Maybe I'm too old to understand the social media generation, but I don't think if I were in that situation, my first thought would be to see how many likes I could rack up by posting about it online. My first thought would be to get a medical examination and call the police, and then a lawyer 🤷♂️
legally moot, having a crew to do everything for you gives enough plausible deniability he likely will never be charged with anything... he is a dreg none the less for even having a crew to do that for him. My opinion has flat-lined to zero. You are a rock-star, f*cking act like it and take the women who explicitly go there with the expressed idea of having relations with you. But somehow I am willing to bet that is not what *he* likes.
Feli's video was actually how I found out about all of this. Her channel is great if you're interested in cultural differences. Glad she covered this topic. I thought your video on this was also well done.
Well "the Spiegel" reported specifically on two stories.
One story was about a lady that gave Lindemann consensually a BJ, went to his bed room, he asked her twice if it was okey (to her own account), the sex was rough and after that she was bleeding.That all while she knew that she had some medical condition that does not allow her to have proper vaginal sex. During that time also another girl entered the room. Lindemann asked also her if she would like to join. She rejected and left.
The other girl knew that this party will have a "sexual component". She passed out there. And she does not quite know, what happend but assumes that Lindemann had Sex with her during that time. The only story that could be daming. But she did not go to the Police, there is no proof and she does not even perfectly know for herself.
The mindboggling thing is, these is what these ladies report themselfes. Even the Shelbies story is basically about consent. He enters room, she tells him that she does not want to have sex with him and he accepts...
Plus those affidavits. They have no legal meaning. In order to be meaningful they would need to file charges and repeat the accusation in front of a German court.
He likes his threesomes and orgies. Richard said he likes to take four girls at a time.
THE SPIEGEL is THE german woke shit portal.
I like the idea of giving the fans in the nose bleeds a chance to experience something but if they are only offering it to girls that’s a little sketch imo.
Feli’s video is amazing and had you not shouted it out I was going to.
The thing is, there's no way to proof anything physical. It's just the story that you can tell but it's nearly impossible to have any evidence as a victim, if you didn't go to the hospital right after the incident. So I assume they're all on low hopes and just speak out to damage their image. But we will see.
I somewhat disagree with the statement (paraphrased) "they should know what they're getting into by going backstage".
I do, I have for a long time (I'm 54,) and most people know. But teenage kids go to rock shows. It's not that far fetched to imagine some naive, starstruck girl at her first rock concert getting just a little bit more than she bargained for.
Sorry but a woman who wears a PornHub t-shirt and has a photo of it on her Instagram cannot be called naive, in my opinion...
My sister and her friend was invited backstage to the after party at a Rammstein concert and barely saw the band. It's not equal to anything sexual. They did have a lot of fun though.
And the lesson from this is: people, do not take drinks from strangers.
Also don't mix SSRIs (antidepressants) with alcohol. Red Bull with vodka mixed with stuff like tequila and prosecco is also a bad idea as it will make you regret all of your life choices (and coincidentally is what Shelby was drinking that night - there are 4 megathreads on r/Rammstein that document this entire case in thorough details. More thorough than anything you see in English media).
You don't mix beer or cider with either wine or spirits so why mix wine with spirits either? I would only mix wine with brandy as that is grape based. You shouldn't even mix red wine and white wine in the same drinking session.
If on anti depressants you should stick only to one small glass of wine or 500mls of beer at the most. I often go to gigs sober and don't drink alcohol there as I need to be extra aware and cautious around dunk people or people high on hard drugs.
Exactly! When I chose to stop taking fluoxetine before the pandemic, because you know...I like to have drinks. Felt like shit when I would drink while i was taking it. Wasn't any fun and just got really sleepy.
speaking as a r4pe survivor myself, back in 2010...true or not, *WHY* is everyone going to the internet rather than the police?...I went to my local police station and printed out all the messages that were exchanged between myself and my r4pi$t. 2 or 3 months later, I was in court to have a restraining order/order of protection. I understand it's scary, but the last place I would go would be social media. And yes, I was asked what I was wearing as if I somehow asked for it.
That's what stinks. Some of these stories are secondhand accounts being given to media sources. If all those things were true, someone would have come forward with enough evidence. It hasn't happened.
Why are there so much horrible comments here... so sad...
Welcome to the internet. I wish I was surprised.
It's just so sick how a career gets destroyed here
Which have been built up for years is !!
Rammstein has been around since 1994!
And then there come such lying women
And claim things that are not true!
Anyone can paint a bruise on it,
Or just add it yourself or someone else.
Then the clips of Kayla are constantly being cut!
When you hear them talking and look at their facial expressions,
You can see that she's lying!
She comes across as incredibly believable!
who believes what she says
Has no knowledge of human nature and notion of people!
It seems staged and partially imposed and under duress.
The women often abuse the subject of rape and coercion….
To arouse pity and then to frighten people around.
Then they know exactly that they are often taken under protection,
And then they are the victim.
Unfortunately, the women are often the perpetrators and lie cold as ice!
And when Kayla mentioned in her first video about Till that Rammstein was right-wing,
I knew that she wasn't a Rammstein fan!!!!!!
Especially when you're friends with left-wing guys like reezo and other left-wing extremists.
So it all comes across as staged and intentional!!!
And now the attacks by Antifa on Rammstein offices,
Or at Till privately,
Declare immediately to every thinking person,
Something is fishy here!!!!
Antifa is very violent and extreme left.
They are inhuman and only know hate and terror!
The aim of this is to destroy everything that is German!!!
That's Rammstein.
Especially songs like waidmans heil...my country...pussy...foreigners...Germany...etc....
Don't like Antifa and left-wing Greens !!!!!
And in the present time when a huge agenda or that wants a new world order,
In general, everything should be turned inside out.
Funny that these climate activists suddenly appeared,
And even that only know their ideology,
And are highly inhuman!!!!
It's not about climate change!
The climate activists are so to speak Antifa!
And again...if women like Kayla were right,
Why didn't she report this immediately last year?
Or reported to the police ⁉️
Then she would be aware of a crime...
She didn't go to the police because it's all made up.
Also strange that none of the extreme left to rape texts that are from rappers!
From rapper Krijo Stalker to Frauenarzt,blokkmonsta,kaisa…..
Or current German rappers.
Is it because most German rappers have a migration background ⁉️⁉️⁉️
They are allowed to do everything ????
Are allowed to rap lyrically about rape,
Or killing and being criminals….glorifying drugs….etc….
Antifa won't open their mouths ⁉️⁉️⁉️
Funny no.....🤔
Antifa hates Rammstein and everything suits them!
But these people and also the climate activists are the real culprits,
And should be punished very severely and best locked away for life ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😤😡🤮
Thank you so much for pinning it down that NO MATTER where you go - even if it says "this is a sex party!!!" on the door - you can ALWAYS say no.
"Why do women put themselves in danger" is a bullshit quesion. "Why do dangerous places exist and who are enabling them" is what we should be asking.
dangerous places exist because people are dangerous lol. people go there, even places where theres drugs and alcohol because they dont think it will happen to them. that is human mentality. the old preach to the young on where to go, where not to go and every thing else about life but in the end the person makes their own choice.
@@GotoMaki4Micah that was my entire point, thank you though
If I hear of a middle aged person inviting my 20 year old son or daughter to a backstage party then I already instinctively want to beat that person but if my child honestly believes this could be a safe thing to do then I have failed as a father.
If it says “this is a sex party” and my child thinks it will definitely be safe I have failed.
If my child is invited to any party by total strangers and thinks it could be a safe thing to do then I have failed. I have failed miserably.
I work in Community support and there is a law about the dignity of risk, there are laws about adult rights and consent. But every time a 18+ year old kid goes out, falls in love or goes to ANY party it is possibly dangerous and if they do not know that then their mother and father, their school, their friends and their community has failed them and they are as badly at risk out in the world as new born lamb.
@@MrMightyZ you always have to warn them about the possible risks yes, because this is the world we live in, but there is no way you or your child are entirely responsible if someone else decides to do foul things. People want and should have fun and curiosity towards anything in life, it will still be the rapist's fault if rape is committed, it will still be the murderer's fault if murder is committed. Like, here's the thing, I just got attacked on the street yesterday, in broad daylight. My father didn't fail me. He'd told me this would happen. But my attacker's father hadn't brought him up not to be an asshole. HIS father failed him. You know what I mean?
Of course you gotta be careful but I can only repeat myself, backstages shouldn't be dangerous, not even sex parties should be dangerous, we need to stop bad people, not activities that can be perfectly fine if sober, consensual adults attend them
Right. Even if a pedestrian walks right into the middle of the road in front of your car, you still have an obligation to try and slam the brakes as long as it will not create more danger.
If you're a horny band member and you invited women to your sex party, even if they 100% knew it was a sex party, _IF THEY SAY NO, YOU LET THEM GO._ The only thing in danger if you don't have sex with them is your pride, which is nowhere near worth destroying a woman's life over.
It might be just me, but if I were assaulted, I would go straight to the police and to take evidence. I wouldn't wait and then post stuff on reddit. Let alone coming forward after god knows how much time and go to the press. This behaviour is shady AF. I wish we lived in a world were these accusations were only made when true, but sadly we don't.
noone should ever bash you. i dont know you in person but its obvious you are a genioun person speaking (and headganging ) his heart out. Keep it up my man and hope we meet in UK at some point for a pint soon
okay i won't choose a side till it's proven to me this seems like attention seeking from the things i have seen and the actual evidence. but also lets talk about the fact that there's video of shelby jumping on joe while he is uncomfortable with it and pushing her away i know this might seem like a minor thing but why isen't it discussed when a woman does something to a man while he is seemingly not wanting it. this time is so wierd basically a woman can harass a man and it will be seen as nothing or a joke while if it's the other way around it's an law suit and a crime
ps i will go to rammstein in a week i will enjoy the show for its music and art/ fireworks
I know this is off topic but I've never seen Tank without his hat/cap. 😂 It's freaking me out it's like a glitch in the matrix or something haha. 🤣 I haven't been subbed/around for long so that's probably why but I love all the content. ❤
This will not be the last video you do about this. The first video was clickbait, this video is clickbait and the next will also be clickbait. Views are how you make a living, so can't say I'm surprised. But not making clickbait when more views means more earnings for you... Let's just say very few UA-camrs have the irons to not make tabloid clickbait for views.
The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" applies to the women coming forward as well. A lot of people like to defend alleged perpetrators by saying basically "innocent until proven guilty, and all these hos are liars" instead of reserving judgement for everyone involved.
I'm not saying Till is to blame, but I wouldn't be surprised it if actually turned to be true., Sex, drugs and alcohol go hand-in-hand with rock and metal music and I've heard a lot of crazy shit people experienced there. I'm not saying this doesn't happen on other type of music genre, this kind of stuff happens a lot on trans, house, EDM, dubstep concerts, as well. All the festivals that attract younger audiences, I'd say. People carry all kinds of drugs there.
Btw quick correction here. Several news outlet (quite serious ones comparable to NYT , WP etc ) have spoken with women that accuss Till of several things. They could confirm that the women didn't know each other and where not at the same shows . The claims are quite strong because up to 20 of these women they spoke to , shared some details that were not public knowledge.
Copycat effect, anyone talking to the tabloid media rather than the police are usually just looking for one thing - well, maybe two
nothing is proven not even any alleged victims have filed charges charges came from third parties
@@YBM2007 innocent until proven guilty for anyone including these women.
@@juliab9596 stop drinking
Thank you for overing this story. We all know there is a lot of stuff going on in the world of 'Sex drugs and Rock 'n' Roll' , there is always the line of legality and/or harm to other people that should not be crossed.
That being said, I recently discovered the artist Scene Queen and her song 18+ that sort of covers this same issue in the music industry. Don't know if you know this artist/song, but if you don't I highly recommend it.
The public prosecution in Germany is required to investigate for evidence speaking against the defendant (and pro the accuser) but with the same priority for evidence pro the defendant (and against the accuser).
We live in a democratic politicial system ....so there is always the side of innocentness, when there are no indicies...so Till Lindemann is an innocent man❤❤❤😊
I love him so much, be strong, Till😊
She was "groomed for sex"... in an hour... at a back stage party. I feel like that's a complete misunderstanding of the word "grooming".
Witnesses in the feuerzone at other concerts last year are saying the same thing. One reported girls whipping each other close to the stage and one of them baring her anus. Security guards standing by and not doing anything about it. If you worked for an outside organisation you would be expected to keep order so I think they work directly for the band.
She never said, she was raped bei TL. She said she didn t remember were this big marks were from. She thinks she was spiked. ( They are always looking for women for the sex parts during the shows, maybe the casting director made them compliant, cause TL said, he thought everthing about Sex was cleared but Shelby never has been asked directly, about that, before )
2 Things. "Innocent until proven guilty" is for both sides. not only Till/Rammstein. and the thing with "you have to seperate the art from the artist". Well but then why are other people saying "these women should know better"???? That implies that you already mix up both Tills. the private one and the artist one. I dont agree with you saying that you agree with these people saying that. These women were told there was a party and not that they would have to have sex with someone. "These women are naive" is not an argument if you are being lied to.
Holding "judgement" until enough information is in hand is never a bad idea. It means sometimes evolving stories will catch you off guard, but so will judging early. Waiting until you have "enough" information is safer.
well thats not how people in the future will react tho, itll only get more emotional and irrelevant cause at one point innocent will be hurt and accused.
I read everything she posted. She passed a drug test. She drank from the same bottle as Til. Witnesses disagree with her version of events.
There is no merit to her claims.
I'm not even a Rammstein fan.
Tells Till specifically "she wont have sex with him" and he walks away, yup, if I was someone as high profile as Till then Id be getting as far the fuck away from someone whos first interaction is to say that to me too, huge red flag....
If what happen is Till asked her if she wanted to get down and she said no so he left her alone. That is the safe environment we want. If she was then harassed or messed with some other way that’s not ok. I’m waiting to see what the investigations show to form an opinion
Shelby and other women were not told beforehand about the very natire of these "parties". They were put under pressure. Some who had intercourse with Lindemann accuse him of being rough. Those are the problems.
why nobody talks about Alena and Joe ...
Thank you for the last words. You pointed it. Even if women were naiv to go on these partys, it's no justify for TL to think they are a catering for sex. You can't pick them like a piece of bread. TL seems to live in his own bubble where he as a rockstar was able to create a system to satisfy his insatiable lust. This is a complete other thing than having sex with a groupie.
Girls going back stage has always meant the same thing ..........hows this different ? movies , books etc on the subject have been around for years , it might not be right but its the way it is , If any one out there has been a roadie for a well known rock band ( i have ) , Hedonism and the fact that it isnt safe is like a magnet for them ...
Didn’t like the video Feli made, for me it’s biased. Yours was much better, neutral and clarifying details and stuff. I’ve been following this since the Shelby woman posted on Reddit, this is getting out of hand in a social and political way that I’ve never seen before. We’ll see what happens.
I don't buy it. As soon as I saw that they went to IG with a camera on their face instead of going to the police or filing with an attorney, I knew it was made up for attention. Of course the music industry sucks and a lot of bad things happen to men and women that are fans, but I don't buy this specific thing.
I remember in the 90's, i was at a Fear Factory and Biohazard gig in the Midlands UK. And girls were trying to go backstage. I even saw one guy who was waiting for his girlfriend to come out of the backstage area. He knew what was going on. It was pretty sad
Dino Cazares is a legendary pussy-hound.
I agree, when you go back stage or someone from the band, through a friend sends you a shirt/pass you know the deal. I said no thanks. I went home by myself with a shirt I bought. I won't say what band but they are all gross. Not my type.
I will never understand why people waste their time with women like that. 🤷
@@jerrimenard3092 I'm against that "they are all the same" thinking. "Backstage" happens everywhere, not only in the music industry, some abuse their position/charisma/fame and some don't. Everywhere. Even in private enviroments .
@@WannabeShady90you sound like an incel
well this is kind of naive. everyone with a grain of education and some form of humane forward progressive thinking knows that an acquittal, especially when its about sexual crimes, really doesnt mean that the person isnt guilty. legally he might leave this not filed guilty, but there are over a hundred women that accused that one person.
innocent until proven guilty is something to protect the person from the state and the police, we as the people have the right and duty to stand by the side of victims.