My theory is that the true Riddler was actually born in Arkham. In previous adaptations, the Riddler would always taunt Batman, trying to prove that he was more intelligent and ahead of him. However, their rivalry truly began during their encounter in Arkham. “You’re really not as smart as I thought you were” It was there that Batman failed to meet the Riddler's expectations, and when Batman is in the news helping the flood victims instead of showing Edward Nashton, Riddler feels as though Batman stole the spotlight that he rightfully deserved. The plan was for them to enjoy all of this together. This may be why he was wailing in his cell, as he now has a burning desire to outsmart Batman and prove that he is superior, and his love for riddles and puzzles is now directed towards exposing Batman as a fraud. The ending of the movie marks a turning point for the Riddler, as he becomes even more twisted and driven to outsmart the Dark Knight. I also think Joker’s riddle was multiple choice, and the answer you give says a lot about you. In this case Riddler chose “a friend”. So Joker laughs at that. That was interesting. Unrelated - Riddler’s mask is a winter combat mask you can buy cheap from an army surplus store.
Absolutely. People always want to see the final result or exactly what we've seen a million times before once again. If Dano's Riddler was a guy in a bowler hat who was arrogant, wanted to prove he was smarter than Batman and said Riddles, he'd definitely be seen as more accurate which is not only less interesting but also dissapointing because Dano draws from so many different interpretations of Riddler and the blueprint is there. But people just want to see a guy in a green suit/leotard and bowler hat, twirling a cane and walking into the GCPD singing "Oompa loompa doopedee doo! Iv'e got another puzzle for you." I don't see him as a guy with a bowler hat and twirling a cane if he returns. I do think he'll definitely want to outsmart Batman. I think The Batman and its characters are what Gotham should've been. "The good, the bad, the beginning." I also noticed your pfp is from Night Cries. Cool!
The mask is a US Army Extreme Cold Weather Mask. That’s why, if you watch, in the message room someone says to buy the mask at a Army Surplus store. He wore the glasses over the mask in reference to the Zodiac.
“You haven’t figured it out? Oh…you’re not as smart as I thought you were. I guess I gave you too much credit” That line alone fits Riddler perfectly. Especially when he realizes that he has one up on someone he viewed as an intellectual equal
It's also interesting. He shows that nothing will hold his attention unless he can twist it into being part of his plan, so he's basically talking to himself for that entire scene.
Finally The Riddler has become something more than a green bodysuit wearing, giggling hysteriac. I detect quite a bit of Ledger’s Joker portrayal in this version of The Riddler.
In Gotham, the Riddler was also more than a green bodysuit wearing, giggling hysteriac btw. Yes, he was a laughing maniac, but there was way more underneath of that. But yeah Paul's version is the exact opposite of Jim Carrey's version.
One of my favorite parts of The Batman was how these character truly felt like early stages of themselves. Like I love how the riddler starts as a man in a mask to hide his real identity and express himself and “teaming up” with Batman, and ending where his identity is revealed so now he does not need a mask, and he now feels superior to Batman since he outsmarted Bruce, but was beaten in a way that may seem like cheating to Ed. It feels like in the future he will be more like the riddler we are used to
There's one scene that sold me on Paul Dano. It comes nearly at the end when he and Bats are having their face to face. It's the moment he realizes that Batman has been bullshitting his way through their conversation and hasn't actually figured out the grand plan yet. That over dramatic disappointment because he thought he finally found an intellectual equal only for that (in his eyes) to be shattered was enough for me to say "yeah, ok, I see it now".
He doesn’t have to hide his face anymore or wear clothes specifically to stop DNA from being left behind so yeah unless he’s attached to it I feel like the costume won’t be coming back and we might get a classic Riddler look later on
@@mrcritical6751 Reeves said that a lot of the characters are still evolving in real-time, which includes Riddler. He's still becoming the Riddler. So I envision that his final look may be his traditional suit with the iconic winter combat mask over his head. I think then, he will have achieved his final form.
@@innovativedunce3706 Considering he quickly befriended the Joker when he got sent to Arkham, I do think that the Joker's specific penchant and taste for dramatic theatrics will probably influence The Riddler moving forward and lead to him being something closer to the "traditional" Riddler portrayals. Especially since he's no longer anonymous
To me, the Riddler in this movie, was more like Anarky, and, while I wish that was the villain they went with, having him be the Riddler was probably the safer bet.
Indeed, but Anarky is still pretty obscure, so we're already lucky to have gotten one live action Lonnie Machin (played by Alexander Calvert in *Arrow* seasons 4&5). He was pretty damn cool in that show, even if he sadly was part of one of the worst storylines from *Arrow* 's 8 seasons. His costume was cool, his mask in particular was creepy... Loved his fighting style & his use of various weapons (even if he was arguably a bit too OP in combat)
“No one gave me a chance” hits home when he said sit. Also when he talked to Batman and the movie almost made you think he knew he was Bruce was perfect
This version of Riddler was perfect for the tone and the story they were telling, and they left the door open for him to return with a more comic accurate look.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD I’m not sure how the Riddler is supposed to be… like his personality. I know he’s supposed to be super intelligent, but isn’t he supposed to be a little crazy like the Joker too?
I Don't really understand why people hated this riddler like sure He's not comic accurate neither was the joker and maybe Catwoman in a way like this riddler just started to make a name for himself he's not the classic riddler we all know and love but he's the closest thing we have ever gotten for the riddler we know in live action
I think Matt Reeves took a lot of inspiration from the Riddler of Earth One and Zero Year, there he blows up the cables of an elevator killing several people after they failed a riddle and the Riddler of Zero Year flooded Gotham.
Good calls; I'd add The Riddler from the *"Batman: Telltale"* games to the ones that reminded me of Paul Dano. First, there's the dark green outfit with the hood & domino mask that hides his face a bit more than usual... And of course, the multiple "Saw-like" contraptions that he would trap his victims in, like the torture device that cuts the victims' fingers one after the other, and later the neck with circular saws... Or deafen/kills the ones trapped in cages with ultrasonic blasts. He also had murder boxes that drown its victims, and a bunch of others that were designed for the game, but ended up not being used. Another important thing from the Telltale's Riddler that reminded me of the Paul Dano one is kind of a semi-big spoiler for the game, so if anyone is reading that and planning to play it one day, maybe stop reading to be safe? . .. ... .. . So, in *The Batman* , Riddler sends a "riddle-boxe bomb" to Wayne manor that almost kills Alfred when he opens it instead of Bruce. In "Batman: Telltale" , Riddler sends one to Wayne Enterprises, and it's Lucius Fox who opens it instead of Bruce... which kills him in the massive following blast. So in both, Batman had a massive grudge against Eddie for killing/hurting one of his closest friends, while trying to kill Bruce.
Arkham City Riddler is peak Riddler. The dude was straight up jigsaw but with genius level intelligence and a massive ego. *edit. Why are comments disabled on your Bruce Wayne video?
Honestly he felt less riddler and more taking inspiration from Ted Bundy and many serial killers around. I still like "the batman" riddler but the animated the batman riddler is my favorite as he's actually a victim to cooperate greed like Mr freeze
Honestly they could have just removed the few (rather bad to be honest) riddles and made him Hush and it would have been amazing. Even the zodiac killer inspiration would have worked 10 times better for Hush.
That mask Riddler is wearing is an old surplus U.S. Winter Combat Mask, it was made back during the 40's and 50's for if we ever went to war somewhere cold.
I'd love to see Riddler come back without the need to wear his mask. Paul Dano's facial expressions are priceless and adds so much to the character especially now that the mystery of his identity is gone now. Plus, it'd feel less distant from the Riddler's usual designs.
Personally, I think a cool addition to Riddler's costume could've been to give him a cane. They could've given a bit of a bit of backstory that while he was in the orphanage, one of the staff members abused him and threw him down the stairs. He would've broken his leg and to this day he still relies on the cane to get around. As a Edward Nashton, the cane is a constant reminder of his abuse, weakness and disadvantages growing up compared to Bruce Wayne... But as The Riddler, he uses the cane as a weapon to brutally beat his victims to death (like he used the carpet tool to kill the mayor). When he puts on the mask, his cane symbolises his "strength", power and brutality. I feel like just that addition would remind us that this is actually the Riddler while still sticking to the gritty realism the movie was going for (obviously the cane wouldn't have to be shaped like a question mark). It would also add some interesting backstory and make sense for the character to have this prop.
Yes! I love the idea of the cane. Maybe the reason why they didn't do that was probably because the Penguin has a cane and they did not want 2 main villains to have a cane.
I really loved this Riddler, but I think he should have had a different mask. Think of a mask like the one Francis Dolarhyde in Manhunter wears, only it's green with eye holes cut out. That would have been clever!
@@SnoopDawsp I can't believe that most people don't know about Brian Cox as the very first on screen appearance of Hannibal Lecter! Anthony Hopkins is great, but Cox is just as great in his own way!
Before I watched the movie the only thing I knew about this riddler was the singing scene and I honestly thought it was a meme spliced in of Micheal Reeves singing
I've never been one to dislike drastically different takes on characters just because they're not like the source material. I do think those roles should be faithful to an extent and shouldn't change the character too much. I hesitate to say this riddler is the greatest, maybe not fully authentic but still a very well done and interesting reimagination of the character. I was satisfied with what the movie did with him though by really focusing in on something that the Arkham series liked to put focus on too with his mental instability without taking that as far as someone like the joker where it goes into pure unfiltered psychopathy. Over all it served the movie well and like other unique aspects of this film's take on the source material it feels distinct but familiar enough for me to like it.
Right lol I’m probably the biggest Jim Carrey fan, but he’s not Jim Carrey anymore. He’s been passed his prime for years now. His last “good” movie was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, everything he did after that just wasn’t as good
I'll always prefer Gorshin, especially due to all he did for the character, but other than the costume I can't say that Dano's take is entirely inaccurate. It's accurate, but only to certain stories. This Riddler feels more like a mix of "Earth One" and a bit of "Dark Night, Dark City" due to the darker take on the character's usual whimsy. Like, there's still a bit of that, but it's been corrupted, like a well done version of what they tried to do to Toyman in the 90's. Also, while I didn't find it to be that great in the film, the comic Dano is writing for this Riddler is amazing.
Recently, The Riddler from The Batman movie is a very good antagonist and Paul Dano gives a great performance but he wasn't really The Riddler. It was more of an amalgamation of the Zodiac Killer, the Holiday Killer from The Long Halloween comic, Hush and The Riddler. It's definitely not my favourite depiction of the character though. My ideal and favourite depiction of the character is the Arkham games' version of the Riddler which have in my opinion the greatest depiction of The Riddler outside the comics. Wally Wingert who voiced the character in all 4 games always delivered such an incredible performance that always managed to perfectly capture Riddler's obsessive personality, massive ego and superiority complex. I adore how Riddler is next level arrogant and will constantly taunt Batman every step of the way but where he really shines is how he is up his own ass and acts as a sore loser every time Batman outsmarts him. It's for all these reasons that this is truly the best depiction of the character, because he embodies everything that the Riddler should be. He's pompous, self-absorbed, has a massive superiority complex and is literally unable to stop his compulsive riddling. I love the taunts and the boasts but the way he just completely melts down when he's beaten because he can't even begin to comprehend that he is not the smartest person in existence.
Do you find the Arkham version of the Riddler threatening though? His pompous attitude just makes him seem silly and annoying (for Batman not annoying to me), rather than a real threat to the city. Even in the game, his plotline is treated like an optional sidequest that you can complete after you've completed the main story of the game. It doesn't make for a very intimidating or serious villain imo. But comic book Riddler is also kind of treated like a joke in major Batman storylines up until the New 52 so it isn't exactly comic inaccurate.
@@leochao2594 I will definitely say especially in Arkham City he was very threatening. The way he had trapped every single doctor and security guard into various death traps meet for a really creepy and scary setting and knowing he was the mastermind really made him stand out. Plus at the end when you find his hideout and find all the doctors with bombs in their heads which explode if they stop moving was pretty terrifying.
He’s...ok, but it feels more like Dano should have been playing the Scarecrow instead. Think about it. He always wears a mask, he hides in the shadows, he spreads fear and paranoia throughout Gotham and even has strong ties to Christianity, poverty and abandonment. He practically has Crane’s original backstory. He’s like Danny Devito’s Penguin. He’s an interesting character, but he’s not who the character should be.
I just realized most of all you said about the Riddler's motives and personality also reminds me of Light Yagami from "Death Note". After all, Yagami also wants to create a better world and get rid of evil, but wants to be the god of said world and kill anyone who opposes him, even if those who do are not criminals.
You can't always go full guns blazing and just add a supervillain. Some need to be sculpted and I think that's what they were trying to do. An imperfect will be super villain
It just takes some time Batman your in the middle of a riddler crime Everything everything will be just fine Everything everything will be alright alright
@@nsasupporter7557 ok,all I’m Saying is that the Riddler wasn’t respected in the Past like Nowadays,We Love this This Intellectual Ego Maniac and Each Interpretation of the Riddler gets Better and Better.
I think the portrayals of the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman in THE BATMAN range from just fine to very good. However, the Riddler was a disappointment to me. What the filmmakers apparently didn't understand was that the Riddler isn't just an intellectual; he's proud of his intellectualism, and even snobbish about it. He should never be shown dressing like a common thug, to the point that he's indistinguishable from any of his henchmen. I would have much preferred to see the green business suit (though I'll admit the bowler hat would have been a little too much). Equally unfortunate is the filmmakers' failure to see that Edward Nygma is NOT a miserable person, but a happy and fun-loving person. He relishes being the Riddler. He's extremely talented and so has no excuse for becoming a criminal, but he turned to crime anyway because it's such an enjoyable hobby. And finally, the Riddler should look...decent. To be sure, Frank Gorshin and Jim Carrey are/were not exactly hunks, but I couldn't imagine a bride forced to marry one of them run screaming away from the altar. But, with all due respect to Paul Dano, THIS Riddler is not handsome by any argument. I don't want a supervillain to be a rabbit-faced geek, unless it's for the purpose of humor.
I 100% agree! For me, the best Riddler is the one from Gotham (TV). Personally, I don't like comparing different versions to the original version, so I am just going to talk about the concept and aesethic of the Riddler rather than canon timeline events or looks. First of, I think Paul Dano did a great job in portraying a tragic smart manic serial killer, but there is little to no familiarity of the Riddler. Yes, the Riddler is insanely smart and strategic just like a lot well-known criminals in real life, but he is so proud of his intelligence, just like what you said. That is why he began doing crimes to get the proper attention and reignition of how smart he is that he believes he deserved. In the show, he literally walks on the street wearing his bright green suit and bowler hat to make it known that he is responsible of those crimes. It is a bit off character in the movie for him to hide himself. Then again, I think it is because it is one of his first crimes, so if he did more crimes, maybe he will become more confident. It is similar to the show where Ed hide himself at first (he still left clues through), but the more crimes he did and his friendship of Penguin, his confidence got boosted. I agree that they should have made the Riddler in the movie more of a happy, fun murderer (lol that sounds weird). I remember in Gotham, the Riddler found committing crime fun. However, in the show, his background is explored and there is some tragic past to how he become the Riddler. Thankfully, the show did not make his background as an excuse, just an understanding to how he became who he is. I don't care about the looks between of an original version and its following adaptations. I just mainly care about the acting skills and the interpertation of the character. With that said, I find Cory Michael Smith (Gotham's Riddler) to be very attractive, but that is my type. I think Jim is pretty good looking and Paul to be cute. As for Frank, I think he is decent looking.
Bro had a really good start and was the best live action nygma we’ve ever gotten if there gonna bring him back bring him back without the mask cause the mask was dumb other then that perfect performance ❤️👍🔥
I hope I’m the future now that his identity is known, he adopts a more Arkham City style look to him with the suit and whatnot, since Matt has said that the villains in all the movies will be popping up everywhere.
I do really wanna see your evaluation on the 60s TV show versions of Batman and his rogues. I'm just really curious what you think of the Silver Age incarnation of Batman in general.
I know he wasn't an exact copy of the Riddler from the comics or even the animated series but I did really enjoy him as he was portrayed. Although I admit that I may be a little biased because I just really like Paul Dano in everything he does
But that costume looked nothing like Hush's getup, who wears a trenchcoat and bandages over his face. Maybe the military boots that Hush often wears are kinda similar? I think the "Hush comparison" comes more from his deep hatred of the Waynes, and his misunderstanding of Bruce's pain (Tommy thought Bruce would be happy to get his parents money ASAP, and Edward thought Bruce wasn't a "real" orphan/didn't deserve to be pitied on so much, because he wasn't half-starving alone in an orphanage) ...
@@randallflagg3700 it’s hush’s silhouette with the riddler color scheme, hush has the bandages, Nashton has the cling wrap he wears under the mask. Turn hush military surplus green and tell me you don’t see a similarity at least. He’s not supposed to be a direct copy of either one.
@@NickolasNameolas - Well sure, if you color Hush completely green then there would be a similarity, but that would be the same for a lot of Bat-rogues... The "military cold weather mask" + big glasses that Riddler wears are distinctive enough from Tommy's bandaged face + cool trenchcoat that they don't really look alike, IMHO. The safran wraps don't show unless Eddie removes his mask, so it doesn't really matter. But hey that's just my interpretation, no more no less. It's a shame that so far the only live action Hush we got was the one from *Batwoman* (I didn't hate the actor, but the bandages looked bad, and the trench coat looked kinda cheap, not sure how to say it in English) I mean, we got Tommy Elliott in *Gotham* but he never went full Hush on Bruce. I enjoyed that one.
Is Catwoman a fraidy-cat? 1. What do you mean, you can't see Jim Carrey's Riddler being violent? When has the Riddler ever NOT tried to kill someone in a psychopathic manner befitting a man obsessed with riddles? And there are elements of Jim Carrey's Eggman that I see in both his Riddler and Paul Dano's. 2. You've got to remember that the Riddler in The Batman was inspired by the Batman. 3. 9:11 isn't that the story of every character in The Batman: the characters we know and have yet to know, all wrapped up in one. Also, Batman at 11:49 looks like his BTAS/DCAU counterpart.
I think if i had to add to his costume, a hat would have been nice to see, making his eyes a little harder to see would have made him even creepier, and it would add some more comic accuracy
To me the Riddler is one of the few Batman villains who doesn't demand a specific look or costume. The Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Bane, the Mad Hatter and so many others have key characteristics that are reflected by their appearance in some way, be that their bodies or their costumes. At his core the Riddler is an extreme narcissist craving attention and recognition of his intellect who has dangerous traps with twisted riddles as the only means of escape. There's nothing there that demands he dress a certain way or have certain physical features (although to me he shouldn't be physically threatening). Plus to me I find it hard to see the Riddler as menacing when he's got question marks all over him, and even the hat and domino mask for me is a bit much. At most I get that there's a showmanship aspect to it, but honestly if he were just a guy with glasses and a plain green suit and tie I'd find that more intimidating than his usual comic look, even if it is less flashy. Growing up I never liked the Riddler and it was mainly because of his leotard design which was all I really ever saw, it wasn't until later in my teens I saw more serious adaptations like the animated series that made me realize how great of a villain he was, and I always wanted to see a take that leaned more into the potential menace of the character. The second he was revealed in that first trailer, that's what got me hooked for this movie. The Riddler put through a Zodiac Killer filter was a genius move, and he's used sparingly which worked. He's the thing Batman is after, so the pursuit of him and his lack of screen time I feel gives him a far greater haunting presence, the effect he has on the city feels like a looming shadow across the whole film. To me this take was a lot like the Heath Ledger Joker or the other Joker takes we've had in film since, they lean into specific core aspects of the character regarding his view on society and his psychotic aspects rather than his goofier gadgets and laughing gas. The Riddler has never had as dark a take as this but it works, whereas for me the Joker I'd like to see get back to those Caesar Romero/Mark Hamill goofier aspects. To me this Riddler was an alternate take that was very much needed, something to show what the character is capable of in terms of menace compared to his last film appearance. It's a serious contender for my favorite adaptation of him, even if its not what I'd call the definitive iteration of the character.
A couple of things: 6:20 Its not a Gimp mask. Its actually a cold weather mask. I think it being a Gimp mask would be very tasteless and unfair to the BDSM community. Also, in Riddler's 1948 debut, he wears a domino mask. Due to the comic logic becoming more divorced from reality a domino mask isn't really good at hiding your identity. But thats what Riddler was using it for. Dano's mask has the same purpose which fits into Vee's explanation of it being an updated version of Riddler's early outfit. 7:59 Though Dano's Riddler did so to kill the Mayor and stun Colson, it shows Riddler's pragmatism. "I'm not physical. My strength is up here." (points to head) This is why Carrey's Riddler hit his boss over the head so he didn't have to struggle with him. Same with Dano. 8:05 Frank Gorshin was as sadistic and deranged as they come. He (like the other 1966 villains to be fair) lured Batman and Robin into deathtraps. One in particular where he says that they have only a couple of minutes to solve the riddle before they die. Very similar to Riddler's trap for Colson. He also ties Robin down and he slowly drifts towards a large circular saw blade. I think his Riddler was more manical, psychopathic and sadistic than Romero's Joker. Joker even calls Riddler "crazy" in the movie! I've noticed the way Gorshin extends the last syllables of the words was brought back by Dano too. 8:31/8:57 In Riddler's 1948 debut he challenges Batman to save a man who he's locked in a mangled looking cage which is slowly closing in on itself and suffocating the man. (which is absolutely horrific) At the end of the story he also tricks Batman and Robin into getting trapped in a mirror maze which he's rigged to explode. B:TAS Riddler also set his boss up in a Minotaur themed trap that if unsolved would kill him. Then there's the Arkhamverse Riddler who uses violence and deathtraps heavily. Earth One Riddler (who is an influence on Dano's Riddler) was also a serial killer and domestic terrorist. There's also Telltale which has Riddler having similar revenge motives (his last target is Gotham city) and torturing his victims who are usually corrupt. There is a comic called Riddler and the Riddle Factory (where Riddler abducts Gotham's elite and broadcasts himself live exposing their dirty secrets for all of Gotham to see. Sound familiar?) where the writer does get one thing wrong about Riddler. He laments that the villains are all more violent "Joker's killing people for christ's sake!" and he's explicitly referencing the 60s as if it were all a fun game and they weren't actually trying to hurt anyone. Wagner is looking at the 60s through rose tinted glasses. Again, behind the goofiness the villains were perhaps more despicable than they ever were. Joker was a self serving creep that lacks any empathy for anyone. He straps Robin to a table so giant propellers can come down and splatter what's left of him over a giant card canvas, while Batman watches. I don't think there's anything more Joker than that. Obviously Riddler's proto-Saw shenanigans. The villains were always trying to kill Batman and Robin in traps that were designed for them to suffer before they died. Go watch the cliffhanger compilation. Gorshin could definitely pull off the rat trap. Not on a kids show, but Gorshin's Riddler definitely has something like that in his nature. What I'd change would be that instead of a green parka, he'd be wearing this. (credit to SholarlyHeathen) www.reddit.com/r/TheBatmanFilm/comments/u43h31/a_riddler_concept_sketch/ but instead of greyish blue gloves, he's be wearing purple latex cleaning gloves.
I personally land on the side of Dano's performance being genius, but that is also because i love Dano's style in general and The Batman is one of my favorite all time films. Without this iteration of Riddler, the movie would fall apart. He is the perfect foil for Batman at this point in his career and having him portrayed like a monster in a horror film is a smart choice. And then to unmask him to find the plain, innocent looking person underneath is basically the end of every real life serial killer's story so it rings true. We WANT him to look evil so we can make sense of the horrible things he does. I can see how it is a divisive performance, particularly it seems like some people hated his outburst and singing in Arkham but i loved it and felt even though he seemed calm and intelligent, he really was just barely containing the unhinged psychopath underneath.
I enjoyed this performance but there’s a kicker - one thing that makes Batman’s rogues gallery so fun is that most of them are unique and create unique characters on film and TV. Think of Ledgers Joker who has helped shape and define villains in cinema for a decade or more. The initial batch of 60s campiness were their own breed. The riddler as written here is too similar to other serial killers in other films. In that way he simply doesn’t stand out. Not Danos fault - he did great with what was given. Just that there’s no “there” there
I could see Corey Michael Smith do the heinous acts that were in the movie in a Gotham spin-off/sequel than every other incarnation minus Dano ofc & 🤔 the Arkham Game & Hush Movie if he survived
It was a good performance, but he should have been called the character he was actually playing-- Hush. The reporter that Thomas Wayne had killed even had the last name "Elliot" which would have made the criminal being Thomas Elliot so much sense.
I am 90% convinced that Hush was originally the villain and they changed it last minute. Makes way too much sense with motivations, villain writting, lackluster riddles, tie in to the Wayne family, and hell the fact that the word HUSH was written in big, cannot possible miss it letters on the orphanage walls.
This was the worst version of the riddler. They basically turned him into the Zodiac killer. Then they made him an autistic 4chan user who spazzes out at Batman. Then he starts singing Ave Maria. It was pathetic.
Definitely the most disturbing Riddler. But, let's face it, practically a new villain they slapped the Riddler brand on, and gave Hush's motivations to. Works very well in context, and he can still evolve into something more akin to the original.
As someone who has no strong feeling about the Bat-saga, I will say I enjoyed Dano's villain just fine, he served his purpose in the film (which was really more about Battinson than anyone else) and felt sadly all too real in this current climate; but I can't really say one of his quotes or recall a specific Moment of his. But that's probably because adults of my age were first exposed to the Riddler via Jim Carey's wacky as hell, questionable but highly memorable - for all the wrong reasons? - performance, so whenever someone says "Riddler", green sparkly leotard on a throne is always gonna pop up in my head first.
I liked it but I think that they had to break an important part of the Riddlers character to make him work: Riddler is compulsively self defeating and ultimately sabotages himself cause he has a deep self loathing. his narcissism won't let him see it, but deep down his low self esteem eats away at his competence. A guy who subconsciously leaves Riddles even when he tries not to. He cannot allow himself to succeed and I did miss thst wrinkle to the character. . Mostly cause it's a mirror of Bruce and his own compulsion to be Batman means he can never truly be happy. it's why his relationships don't work, why he alienated Dick Greyson into leaving, why he worries he'll crack one day because Bruce is much more self aware of these tendecies.
For about 10 years i said that if they were going to do the riddler again it should've been a take that was more like the seven killer saw or the zodiac killer so i loved when The Batman went that route
Frank Gorshin will always be the best Riddler, but Paul Dano is a decent take. Just put him in an actual Riddler costume instead of whatever he wore in this movie.
@@heyimpercy7368 No, it's not. Frank Gorshin is the best Riddler. He's funny, charismatic, and embodies the charm of the character to a T. There are certainly other good Riddler actors, but nobody can top the GOAT Frank Gorshin.
@@PixelFlickz No, because I'll admit that Heath Ledger is a much better Joker than Cesar Romero. It's just that Frank Gorshin is the best Riddler and always will be.
Paul Dano was a fine choice, but they took a terrible direction with the character. From copying Zodiac to Jigsaw, the character's motivation is straight out of "Law Abiding Citizen" where the main character was the accidental Villain (Jamie Foxx) and the "Villain" who has been depicted as the "Hero" in all other revenge movies (Gerard Butler) taking out the corrupt. The twist of Riddler thinking him and Batman were working together was horrible and made the Riddler look like an idiot. Then you have a good dialogue take a terrible turn when Nashton starts yelling "Noooooooo" and signing to Batman.
I think Gotham's Riddler is the best, only because the Riddler's we see in other stuff has a single goal and it makes you think "what happens now?" but in Gotham Riddler is just kinda doing what he wants.
I didn’t leave The Dark Knight wanting more Heath Ledger’s Joker, they gave me a sufficient amount of him in the movie. I did leave The Batman (2023) wanting more of Paul Dano’s Riddler because there was not enough of him in the movie.
Frank gorshin is the greatest riddler period,he pretty much defined what the riddler should be and look like,if it werent for him the riddler would never have his classic green suit and tie.its sad that some people think this is the best riddler.
My theory is that the true Riddler was actually born in Arkham. In previous adaptations, the Riddler would always taunt Batman, trying to prove that he was more intelligent and ahead of him. However, their rivalry truly began during their encounter in Arkham. “You’re really not as smart as I thought you were” It was there that Batman failed to meet the Riddler's expectations, and when Batman is in the news helping the flood victims instead of showing Edward Nashton, Riddler feels as though Batman stole the spotlight that he rightfully deserved. The plan was for them to enjoy all of this together. This may be why he was wailing in his cell, as he now has a burning desire to outsmart Batman and prove that he is superior, and his love for riddles and puzzles is now directed towards exposing Batman as a fraud. The ending of the movie marks a turning point for the Riddler, as he becomes even more twisted and driven to outsmart the Dark Knight.
I also think Joker’s riddle was multiple choice, and the answer you give says a lot about you. In this case Riddler chose “a friend”. So Joker laughs at that. That was interesting.
Unrelated - Riddler’s mask is a winter combat mask you can buy cheap from an army surplus store.
Absolutely. People always want to see the final result or exactly what we've seen a million times before once again.
If Dano's Riddler was a guy in a bowler hat who was arrogant, wanted to prove he was smarter than Batman and said Riddles, he'd definitely be seen as more accurate which is not only less interesting but also dissapointing because Dano draws from so many different interpretations of Riddler and the blueprint is there. But people just want to see a guy in a green suit/leotard and bowler hat, twirling a cane and walking into the GCPD singing "Oompa loompa doopedee doo! Iv'e got another puzzle for you."
I don't see him as a guy with a bowler hat and twirling a cane if he returns. I do think he'll definitely want to outsmart Batman. I think The Batman and its characters are what Gotham should've been. "The good, the bad, the beginning."
I also noticed your pfp is from Night Cries. Cool!
agreed 100% they kept him alive to bring him back i’m sure. that’s when we’ll (hopefully) get a more accurate looking take
Exactly
The mask is a US Army Extreme Cold Weather Mask. That’s why, if you watch, in the message room someone says to buy the mask at a Army Surplus store. He wore the glasses over the mask in reference to the Zodiac.
“You haven’t figured it out? Oh…you’re not as smart as I thought you were. I guess I gave you too much credit”
That line alone fits Riddler perfectly. Especially when he realizes that he has one up on someone he viewed as an intellectual equal
It's also interesting. He shows that nothing will hold his attention unless he can twist it into being part of his plan, so he's basically talking to himself for that entire scene.
I read that in the voice of the Riddler from the Batman Arkham series.
you water boerded my family with your body fluids
Finally The Riddler has become something more than a green bodysuit wearing, giggling hysteriac.
I detect quite a bit of Ledger’s Joker portrayal in this version of The Riddler.
Why not use Victor Zsasz instead then?
In Gotham, the Riddler was also more than a green bodysuit wearing, giggling hysteriac btw. Yes, he was a laughing maniac, but there was way more underneath of that. But yeah Paul's version is the exact opposite of Jim Carrey's version.
One of my favorite parts of The Batman was how these character truly felt like early stages of themselves. Like I love how the riddler starts as a man in a mask to hide his real identity and express himself and “teaming up” with Batman, and ending where his identity is revealed so now he does not need a mask, and he now feels superior to Batman since he outsmarted Bruce, but was beaten in a way that may seem like cheating to Ed. It feels like in the future he will be more like the riddler we are used to
There's one scene that sold me on Paul Dano. It comes nearly at the end when he and Bats are having their face to face. It's the moment he realizes that Batman has been bullshitting his way through their conversation and hasn't actually figured out the grand plan yet. That over dramatic disappointment because he thought he finally found an intellectual equal only for that (in his eyes) to be shattered was enough for me to say "yeah, ok, I see it now".
His cover of Ava Maria will always be legendary.
Yeah I got chills when Bataman is yelling what have you done?! While he was singing.
It was kinda cringe for me .
I hope we get to see Dano’s Riddler evolve, with time I could see this version becoming closer to the Riddler we all know and love.
He doesn’t have to hide his face anymore or wear clothes specifically to stop DNA from being left behind so yeah unless he’s attached to it I feel like the costume won’t be coming back and we might get a classic Riddler look later on
@@mrcritical6751 Reeves said that a lot of the characters are still evolving in real-time, which includes Riddler. He's still becoming the Riddler. So I envision that his final look may be his traditional suit with the iconic winter combat mask over his head. I think then, he will have achieved his final form.
@@innovativedunce3706 Considering he quickly befriended the Joker when he got sent to Arkham, I do think that the Joker's specific penchant and taste for dramatic theatrics will probably influence The Riddler moving forward and lead to him being something closer to the "traditional" Riddler portrayals. Especially since he's no longer anonymous
I liked this version of the riddler it was pretty cool
Actually, the riddler is wearing an extreme cold weather mask
To me, the Riddler in this movie, was more like Anarky, and, while I wish that was the villain they went with, having him be the Riddler was probably the safer bet.
Indeed, but Anarky is still pretty obscure, so we're already lucky to have gotten one live action Lonnie Machin (played by Alexander Calvert in *Arrow* seasons 4&5).
He was pretty damn cool in that show, even if he sadly was part of one of the worst storylines from *Arrow* 's 8 seasons.
His costume was cool, his mask in particular was creepy...
Loved his fighting style & his use of various weapons (even if he was arguably a bit too OP in combat)
I agree
Talk about a run-on sentence
No he was the Riddler. Anarchy never left riddles or wear green
@@Spectrefox1313I actually can’t tell if you’re joking or not. Please tell me you are
“No one gave me a chance” hits home when he said sit. Also when he talked to Batman and the movie almost made you think he knew he was Bruce was perfect
Too victim oriented for the Riddler. Riddler sees himself as superior, not the victim.
This version of Riddler was perfect for the tone and the story they were telling, and they left the door open for him to return with a more comic accurate look.
He's a great villain plays it well, but he's not really being the Riddler but more of a serial killer with a theme.
Did you ever see “Prisoners?” He played a good mentally handicapped guy in that movie. Hugh Jackman was the main character
@@nsasupporter7557 That reinforces my point though, he plays his role well, but the character just was not the Riddler.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD I’m not sure how the Riddler is supposed to be… like his personality. I know he’s supposed to be super intelligent, but isn’t he supposed to be a little crazy like the Joker too?
@@nsasupporter7557 Joker and Riddler have been too similar until The Batman.
@@nsasupporter7557 Yes he is, the movie version is more like a spree killer, or the zodiac killer not Riddler.
Definitely not the worst. I'm not a big a comicbook reader but as a cinephile I loved his psychotic and weirdly entertaining performance
I Don't really understand why people hated this riddler like sure He's not comic accurate neither was the joker and maybe Catwoman in a way like this riddler just started to make a name for himself he's not the classic riddler we all know and love but he's the closest thing we have ever gotten for the riddler we know in live action
I guess you never watched the gotham version. Aside from the stupid romance with Lee, Gotham Riddler was much better than Zodiac killer Ridder.
@@zemox2534 in movies not a series
@Mohab Alserafe Be more bloody specific. Anyway tv or movies, Gotham Riddler was still more accurate
@@zemox2534 alright alright why so serious I mean yeah all villains of Gotham show are a bit accurate except for maybe penguin and Harley
I think Matt Reeves took a lot of inspiration from the Riddler of Earth One and Zero Year, there he blows up the cables of an elevator killing several people after they failed a riddle and the Riddler of Zero Year flooded Gotham.
Yeah zero year riddler was pretty good! I guarantee that's probably where they got the idea of flooding Gotham
Good calls;
I'd add The Riddler from the *"Batman: Telltale"* games to the ones that reminded me of Paul Dano.
First, there's the dark green outfit with the hood & domino mask that hides his face a bit more than usual...
And of course, the multiple "Saw-like" contraptions that he would trap his victims in, like the torture device that cuts the victims' fingers one after the other, and later the neck with circular saws...
Or deafen/kills the ones trapped in cages with ultrasonic blasts.
He also had murder boxes that drown its victims, and a bunch of others that were designed for the game, but ended up not being used.
Another important thing from the Telltale's Riddler that reminded me of the Paul Dano one is kind of a semi-big spoiler for the game, so if anyone is reading that and planning to play it one day, maybe stop reading to be safe?
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So, in *The Batman* , Riddler sends a "riddle-boxe bomb" to Wayne manor that almost kills Alfred when he opens it instead of Bruce.
In "Batman: Telltale" , Riddler sends one to Wayne Enterprises, and it's Lucius Fox who opens it instead of Bruce... which kills him in the massive following blast.
So in both, Batman had a massive grudge against Eddie for killing/hurting one of his closest friends, while trying to kill Bruce.
@@randallflagg3700
Also in the game his last target its Gotham itself. Likewise with The Batman.
@@randallflagg3700 oh yeah I also feel like they got the story line about his parents being corrupted from the Telltale games as well
Arkham City Riddler is peak Riddler. The dude was straight up jigsaw but with genius level intelligence and a massive ego.
*edit. Why are comments disabled on your Bruce Wayne video?
Honestly he felt less riddler and more taking inspiration from Ted Bundy and many serial killers around.
I still like "the batman" riddler but the animated the batman riddler is my favorite as he's actually a victim to cooperate greed like Mr freeze
His mask, the glasses, his coded messages and taunting the police is literally The Zodiac Killer.
@@vehimouchas9743 pretty much and batman has other villains that fit that role better.
@@vehimouchas9743 coded messages and taunting the people trying to solve his crimes is literally what the riddler does in every story he is in
Honestly they could have just removed the few (rather bad to be honest) riddles and made him Hush and it would have been amazing. Even the zodiac killer inspiration would have worked 10 times better for Hush.
That mask Riddler is wearing is an old surplus U.S. Winter Combat Mask, it was made back during the 40's and 50's for if we ever went to war somewhere cold.
I'd love to see Riddler come back without the need to wear his mask. Paul Dano's facial expressions are priceless and adds so much to the character especially now that the mystery of his identity is gone now. Plus, it'd feel less distant from the Riddler's usual designs.
What are you taking about he's supposed to be a nygma begining and his reveal will be build up towards the end at arkham
He was EXCELLENT imho in The Batman, i'd love to see him again in the sequel or later on down the road.
My favorite is still the one from Gotham but I can understand why this one could be others favorite
Favorite scene in this movie is when the riddler is having his breakdown in the jail.
I personally loved the movie . My favorite part of it was trying to figure out what the riddler will do next the first time watching
6:24 It’s a military cold weather mask.
I think things like his suit and the way he looks without his suit where improves especially considering everything else in the movie.
I only knew Paul Dano from 2004s the Girl Next Door. To say I found out Klitz was playing the Riddler in a serious Batman movie was surprising.
Personally, I think a cool addition to Riddler's costume could've been to give him a cane.
They could've given a bit of a bit of backstory that while he was in the orphanage, one of the staff members abused him and threw him down the stairs. He would've broken his leg and to this day he still relies on the cane to get around.
As a Edward Nashton, the cane is a constant reminder of his abuse, weakness and disadvantages growing up compared to Bruce Wayne...
But as The Riddler, he uses the cane as a weapon to brutally beat his victims to death (like he used the carpet tool to kill the mayor). When he puts on the mask, his cane symbolises his "strength", power and brutality.
I feel like just that addition would remind us that this is actually the Riddler while still sticking to the gritty realism the movie was going for (obviously the cane wouldn't have to be shaped like a question mark). It would also add some interesting backstory and make sense for the character to have this prop.
Reminds me of 8mm villain
LOVE this idea
Yes! I love the idea of the cane. Maybe the reason why they didn't do that was probably because the Penguin has a cane and they did not want 2 main villains to have a cane.
My favorite riddler is the one in Gotham.
I really loved this Riddler, but I think he should have had a different mask.
Think of a mask like the one Francis Dolarhyde in Manhunter wears, only it's green with eye holes cut out. That would have been clever!
Kinda surprised people have seen manhunter
@@SnoopDawsp I can't believe that most people don't know about Brian Cox as the very first on screen appearance of Hannibal Lecter! Anthony Hopkins is great, but Cox is just as great in his own way!
I think it works that it's just something that gets the job done. This Riddler always wanted to be caught and become a famous face
Well said man, well said
Before I watched the movie the only thing I knew about this riddler was the singing scene and I honestly thought it was a meme spliced in of Micheal Reeves singing
Riddler is my favorite Batman villain. I loved this take.
I've never been one to dislike drastically different takes on characters just because they're not like the source material.
I do think those roles should be faithful to an extent and shouldn't change the character too much. I hesitate to say this riddler is the greatest, maybe not fully authentic but still a very well done and interesting reimagination of the character.
I was satisfied with what the movie did with him though by really focusing in on something that the Arkham series liked to put focus on too with his mental instability without taking that as far as someone like the joker where it goes into pure unfiltered psychopathy. Over all it served the movie well and like other unique aspects of this film's take on the source material it feels distinct but familiar enough for me to like it.
I do lol at Jim Carrey talking about his concern over Paul Dano’s Riddler taping peoples heads when he did that to himself in Yes Man
Right lol
I’m probably the biggest Jim Carrey fan, but he’s not Jim Carrey anymore. He’s been passed his prime for years now. His last “good” movie was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, everything he did after that just wasn’t as good
The guy’s become overly sensitive AF, need I remind you how he refused to promote Kick Ass 2 because of an unrelated school shooting
I'll always prefer Gorshin, especially due to all he did for the character, but other than the costume I can't say that Dano's take is entirely inaccurate. It's accurate, but only to certain stories. This Riddler feels more like a mix of "Earth One" and a bit of "Dark Night, Dark City" due to the darker take on the character's usual whimsy. Like, there's still a bit of that, but it's been corrupted, like a well done version of what they tried to do to Toyman in the 90's.
Also, while I didn't find it to be that great in the film, the comic Dano is writing for this Riddler is amazing.
holy shit I'm actually first. But yeah, Paul Dano's Riddler is a really interesting case. Nobody can beat John Glover IMO
Not that John glover was bad at voicing the riddler but frank gorshin is the definitive riddler
I always thought that the cold-weather mask was going to be significant somehow.
Recently, The Riddler from The Batman movie is a very good antagonist and Paul Dano gives a great performance but he wasn't really The Riddler. It was more of an amalgamation of the Zodiac Killer, the Holiday Killer from The Long Halloween comic, Hush and The Riddler. It's definitely not my favourite depiction of the character though. My ideal and favourite depiction of the character is the Arkham games' version of the Riddler which have in my opinion the greatest depiction of The Riddler outside the comics. Wally Wingert who voiced the character in all 4 games always delivered such an incredible performance that always managed to perfectly capture Riddler's obsessive personality, massive ego and superiority complex. I adore how Riddler is next level arrogant and will constantly taunt Batman every step of the way but where he really shines is how he is up his own ass and acts as a sore loser every time Batman outsmarts him. It's for all these reasons that this is truly the best depiction of the character, because he embodies everything that the Riddler should be. He's pompous, self-absorbed, has a massive superiority complex and is literally unable to stop his compulsive riddling. I love the taunts and the boasts but the way he just completely melts down when he's beaten because he can't even begin to comprehend that he is not the smartest person in existence.
Do you find the Arkham version of the Riddler threatening though? His pompous attitude just makes him seem silly and annoying (for Batman not annoying to me), rather than a real threat to the city. Even in the game, his plotline is treated like an optional sidequest that you can complete after you've completed the main story of the game. It doesn't make for a very intimidating or serious villain imo. But comic book Riddler is also kind of treated like a joke in major Batman storylines up until the New 52 so it isn't exactly comic inaccurate.
@@leochao2594 I will definitely say especially in Arkham City he was very threatening. The way he had trapped every single doctor and security guard into various death traps meet for a really creepy and scary setting and knowing he was the mastermind really made him stand out. Plus at the end when you find his hideout and find all the doctors with bombs in their heads which explode if they stop moving was pretty terrifying.
Love the Batman n I would say it was 50/50 on him being the riddler
9:39 Danny devito’s Penguin looks like the Penguin from Arkham City
The greats “Face-Time” Riddler
He’s...ok, but it feels more like Dano should have been playing the Scarecrow instead. Think about it. He always wears a mask, he hides in the shadows, he spreads fear and paranoia throughout Gotham and even has strong ties to Christianity, poverty and abandonment. He practically has Crane’s original backstory. He’s like Danny Devito’s Penguin. He’s an interesting character, but he’s not who the character should be.
Lol that "bdsm" mask is actual military winter combat mask lol
I just realized most of all you said about the Riddler's motives and personality also reminds me of Light Yagami from "Death Note". After all, Yagami also wants to create a better world and get rid of evil, but wants to be the god of said world and kill anyone who opposes him, even if those who do are not criminals.
You can't always go full guns blazing and just add a supervillain.
Some need to be sculpted and I think that's what they were trying to do. An imperfect will be super villain
It just takes some time
Batman your in the middle of a riddler crime
Everything everything will be just fine
Everything everything will be alright alright
While I Love Jim Carrey,the Batman’s Riddle is the Best Portrayal of this Underrated Batman Villain and made His as a Part of Gotham as Possible.
Please stop saying underrated! 😣
I don’t know why everybody on UA-cam is so in love with calling everything “underrated” but it’s annoying as f*ck
@@nsasupporter7557 ok,all I’m Saying is that the Riddler wasn’t respected in the Past like Nowadays,We Love this This Intellectual Ego Maniac and Each Interpretation of the Riddler gets Better and Better.
I think the portrayals of the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman in THE BATMAN range from just fine to very good. However, the Riddler was a disappointment to me.
What the filmmakers apparently didn't understand was that the Riddler isn't just an intellectual; he's proud of his intellectualism, and even snobbish about it. He should never be shown dressing like a common thug, to the point that he's indistinguishable from any of his henchmen. I would have much preferred to see the green business suit (though I'll admit the bowler hat would have been a little too much).
Equally unfortunate is the filmmakers' failure to see that Edward Nygma is NOT a miserable person, but a happy and fun-loving person. He relishes being the Riddler. He's extremely talented and so has no excuse for becoming a criminal, but he turned to crime anyway because it's such an enjoyable hobby.
And finally, the Riddler should look...decent. To be sure, Frank Gorshin and Jim Carrey are/were not exactly hunks, but I couldn't imagine a bride forced to marry one of them run screaming away from the altar. But, with all due respect to Paul Dano, THIS Riddler is not handsome by any argument. I don't want a supervillain to be a rabbit-faced geek, unless it's for the purpose of humor.
I 100% agree! For me, the best Riddler is the one from Gotham (TV). Personally, I don't like comparing different versions to the original version, so I am just going to talk about the concept and aesethic of the Riddler rather than canon timeline events or looks.
First of, I think Paul Dano did a great job in portraying a tragic smart manic serial killer, but there is little to no familiarity of the Riddler. Yes, the Riddler is insanely smart and strategic just like a lot well-known criminals in real life, but he is so proud of his intelligence, just like what you said. That is why he began doing crimes to get the proper attention and reignition of how smart he is that he believes he deserved. In the show, he literally walks on the street wearing his bright green suit and bowler hat to make it known that he is responsible of those crimes. It is a bit off character in the movie for him to hide himself. Then again, I think it is because it is one of his first crimes, so if he did more crimes, maybe he will become more confident. It is similar to the show where Ed hide himself at first (he still left clues through), but the more crimes he did and his friendship of Penguin, his confidence got boosted.
I agree that they should have made the Riddler in the movie more of a happy, fun murderer (lol that sounds weird). I remember in Gotham, the Riddler found committing crime fun. However, in the show, his background is explored and there is some tragic past to how he become the Riddler. Thankfully, the show did not make his background as an excuse, just an understanding to how he became who he is.
I don't care about the looks between of an original version and its following adaptations. I just mainly care about the acting skills and the interpertation of the character. With that said, I find Cory Michael Smith (Gotham's Riddler) to be very attractive, but that is my type. I think Jim is pretty good looking and Paul to be cute. As for Frank, I think he is decent looking.
i love comic riddler but damn i really like this creepy zodiac killer riddler very much too, and the look is so different but works?
I just re watched it today and OMG this movie is so good...so good to even believe it's real...
Nothing is above critique though...
Paul Dano aka Bubbles aka The green Bastard...
He was up there with heaths joker .
Bro had a really good start and was the best live action nygma we’ve ever gotten if there gonna bring him back bring him back without the mask cause the mask was dumb other then that perfect performance ❤️👍🔥
GREAT VIDEO 👍👍👍😉💛💛
I hope I’m the future now that his identity is known, he adopts a more Arkham City style look to him with the suit and whatnot, since Matt has said that the villains in all the movies will be popping up everywhere.
That paul dano riddler may call roadman.
I do really wanna see your evaluation on the 60s TV show versions of Batman and his rogues. I'm just really curious what you think of the Silver Age incarnation of Batman in general.
Green tuxedo black undershirt purple tie a cane a bolder hat black dress pants and black shoes and give him glasses that’s a design that will work
I know he wasn't an exact copy of the Riddler from the comics or even the animated series but I did really enjoy him as he was portrayed. Although I admit that I may be a little biased because I just really like Paul Dano in everything he does
8:53 I would like to see what Frank Gorshin and John Astin think of this portrayal, although sadly Gorshin died, i'm not sure about Astin though.
Like the Joker in The Dark Knight, this Riddler is superbly acted and horribly costumed.
That’s a terrible take both looks are iconic .
Genuinely how would u want the riddler to be costumed?
The Dark Knight joker had a good costume in my opinion
@@Thatguyyoudontknow594 There are literally millions of reference illustrations spanning several decades.
@@LeePresson i asked u
Its a military winter survival mask man.... bought at any army surplus store
He was an amalgam of Riddler and Hush, that’s why he wore that costume
But that costume looked nothing like Hush's getup, who wears a trenchcoat and bandages over his face.
Maybe the military boots that Hush often wears are kinda similar?
I think the "Hush comparison" comes more from his deep hatred of the Waynes, and his misunderstanding of Bruce's pain
(Tommy thought Bruce would be happy to get his parents money ASAP, and Edward thought Bruce wasn't a "real" orphan/didn't deserve to be pitied on so much, because he wasn't half-starving alone in an orphanage) ...
@@randallflagg3700 it’s hush’s silhouette with the riddler color scheme, hush has the bandages, Nashton has the cling wrap he wears under the mask. Turn hush military surplus green and tell me you don’t see a similarity at least. He’s not supposed to be a direct copy of either one.
@@NickolasNameolas - Well sure, if you color Hush completely green then there would be a similarity, but that would be the same for a lot of Bat-rogues...
The "military cold weather mask" + big glasses that Riddler wears are distinctive enough from Tommy's bandaged face + cool trenchcoat that they don't really look alike, IMHO.
The safran wraps don't show unless Eddie removes his mask, so it doesn't really matter.
But hey that's just my interpretation, no more no less.
It's a shame that so far the only live action Hush we got was the one from *Batwoman* (I didn't hate the actor, but the bandages looked bad, and the trench coat looked kinda cheap, not sure how to say it in English)
I mean, we got Tommy Elliott in *Gotham* but he never went full Hush on Bruce. I enjoyed that one.
Is Catwoman a fraidy-cat?
1. What do you mean, you can't see Jim Carrey's Riddler being violent? When has the Riddler ever NOT tried to kill someone in a psychopathic manner befitting a man obsessed with riddles? And there are elements of Jim Carrey's Eggman that I see in both his Riddler and Paul Dano's.
2. You've got to remember that the Riddler in The Batman was inspired by the Batman.
3. 9:11 isn't that the story of every character in The Batman: the characters we know and have yet to know, all wrapped up in one.
Also, Batman at 11:49 looks like his BTAS/DCAU counterpart.
Matt Reeveses combined 7 with Saw. And put Batman in it.
He wasn’t a good comic book riddler, but he was a great riddler for the world Matt Reeves created
He is the BEST
I think if i had to add to his costume, a hat would have been nice to see, making his eyes a little harder to see would have made him even creepier, and it would add some more comic accuracy
To me the Riddler is one of the few Batman villains who doesn't demand a specific look or costume. The Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Bane, the Mad Hatter and so many others have key characteristics that are reflected by their appearance in some way, be that their bodies or their costumes. At his core the Riddler is an extreme narcissist craving attention and recognition of his intellect who has dangerous traps with twisted riddles as the only means of escape. There's nothing there that demands he dress a certain way or have certain physical features (although to me he shouldn't be physically threatening). Plus to me I find it hard to see the Riddler as menacing when he's got question marks all over him, and even the hat and domino mask for me is a bit much. At most I get that there's a showmanship aspect to it, but honestly if he were just a guy with glasses and a plain green suit and tie I'd find that more intimidating than his usual comic look, even if it is less flashy.
Growing up I never liked the Riddler and it was mainly because of his leotard design which was all I really ever saw, it wasn't until later in my teens I saw more serious adaptations like the animated series that made me realize how great of a villain he was, and I always wanted to see a take that leaned more into the potential menace of the character. The second he was revealed in that first trailer, that's what got me hooked for this movie. The Riddler put through a Zodiac Killer filter was a genius move, and he's used sparingly which worked. He's the thing Batman is after, so the pursuit of him and his lack of screen time I feel gives him a far greater haunting presence, the effect he has on the city feels like a looming shadow across the whole film.
To me this take was a lot like the Heath Ledger Joker or the other Joker takes we've had in film since, they lean into specific core aspects of the character regarding his view on society and his psychotic aspects rather than his goofier gadgets and laughing gas. The Riddler has never had as dark a take as this but it works, whereas for me the Joker I'd like to see get back to those Caesar Romero/Mark Hamill goofier aspects.
To me this Riddler was an alternate take that was very much needed, something to show what the character is capable of in terms of menace compared to his last film appearance. It's a serious contender for my favorite adaptation of him, even if its not what I'd call the definitive iteration of the character.
A couple of things:
6:20 Its not a Gimp mask. Its actually a cold weather mask. I think it being a Gimp mask would be very tasteless and unfair to the BDSM community.
Also, in Riddler's 1948 debut, he wears a domino mask. Due to the comic logic becoming more divorced from reality a domino mask isn't really good at hiding your identity. But thats what Riddler was using it for. Dano's mask has the same purpose which fits into Vee's explanation of it being an updated version of Riddler's early outfit.
7:59 Though Dano's Riddler did so to kill the Mayor and stun Colson, it shows Riddler's pragmatism. "I'm not physical. My strength is up here." (points to head)
This is why Carrey's Riddler hit his boss over the head so he didn't have to struggle with him. Same with Dano.
8:05 Frank Gorshin was as sadistic and deranged as they come. He (like the other 1966 villains to be fair) lured Batman and Robin into deathtraps. One in particular where he says that they have only a couple of minutes to solve the riddle before they die. Very similar to Riddler's trap for Colson. He also ties Robin down and he slowly drifts towards a large circular saw blade. I think his Riddler was more manical, psychopathic and sadistic than Romero's Joker. Joker even calls Riddler "crazy" in the movie! I've noticed the way Gorshin extends the last syllables of the words was brought back by Dano too.
8:31/8:57 In Riddler's 1948 debut he challenges Batman to save a man who he's locked in a mangled looking cage which is slowly closing in on itself and suffocating the man. (which is absolutely horrific) At the end of the story he also tricks Batman and Robin into getting trapped in a mirror maze which he's rigged to explode. B:TAS Riddler also set his boss up in a Minotaur themed trap that if unsolved would kill him. Then there's the Arkhamverse Riddler who uses violence and deathtraps heavily. Earth One Riddler (who is an influence on Dano's Riddler) was also a serial killer and domestic terrorist. There's also Telltale which has Riddler having similar revenge motives (his last target is Gotham city) and torturing his victims who are usually corrupt.
There is a comic called Riddler and the Riddle Factory (where Riddler abducts Gotham's elite and broadcasts himself live exposing their dirty secrets for all of Gotham to see. Sound familiar?) where the writer does get one thing wrong about Riddler. He laments that the villains are all more violent "Joker's killing people for christ's sake!" and he's explicitly referencing the 60s as if it were all a fun game and they weren't actually trying to hurt anyone.
Wagner is looking at the 60s through rose tinted glasses. Again, behind the goofiness the villains were perhaps more despicable than they ever were. Joker was a self serving creep that lacks any empathy for anyone. He straps Robin to a table so giant propellers can come down and splatter what's left of him over a giant card canvas, while Batman watches. I don't think there's anything more Joker than that. Obviously Riddler's proto-Saw shenanigans. The villains were always trying to kill Batman and Robin in traps that were designed for them to suffer before they died. Go watch the cliffhanger compilation.
Gorshin could definitely pull off the rat trap. Not on a kids show, but Gorshin's Riddler definitely has something like that in his nature.
What I'd change would be that instead of a green parka, he'd be wearing this. (credit to SholarlyHeathen)
www.reddit.com/r/TheBatmanFilm/comments/u43h31/a_riddler_concept_sketch/ but instead of greyish blue gloves, he's be wearing purple latex cleaning gloves.
You’re so right. I’m kicking my own ass that I didn’t include that line. That’s the character to a T
@@VI_V2
No worries Vee. You always deliver your A-game! :)
I personally land on the side of Dano's performance being genius, but that is also because i love Dano's style in general and The Batman is one of my favorite all time films. Without this iteration of Riddler, the movie would fall apart. He is the perfect foil for Batman at this point in his career and having him portrayed like a monster in a horror film is a smart choice. And then to unmask him to find the plain, innocent looking person underneath is basically the end of every real life serial killer's story so it rings true. We WANT him to look evil so we can make sense of the horrible things he does.
I can see how it is a divisive performance, particularly it seems like some people hated his outburst and singing in Arkham but i loved it and felt even though he seemed calm and intelligent, he really was just barely containing the unhinged psychopath underneath.
The thing is the riddler won in the end his plan succeeded he sank the city. Yet hes still disappointed.
This was a poor Green Bastard cosplay, not the Riddler.
I enjoyed this performance but there’s a kicker - one thing that makes Batman’s rogues gallery so fun is that most of them are unique and create unique characters on film and TV. Think of Ledgers Joker who has helped shape and define villains in cinema for a decade or more. The initial batch of 60s campiness were their own breed. The riddler as written here is too similar to other serial killers in other films. In that way he simply doesn’t stand out. Not Danos fault - he did great with what was given. Just that there’s no “there” there
I could see Corey Michael Smith do the heinous acts that were in the movie in a Gotham spin-off/sequel than every other incarnation minus Dano ofc & 🤔 the Arkham Game & Hush Movie if he survived
It was a good performance, but he should have been called the character he was actually playing-- Hush. The reporter that Thomas Wayne had killed even had the last name "Elliot" which would have made the criminal being Thomas Elliot so much sense.
I am 90% convinced that Hush was originally the villain and they changed it last minute. Makes way too much sense with motivations, villain writting, lackluster riddles, tie in to the Wayne family, and hell the fact that the word HUSH was written in big, cannot possible miss it letters on the orphanage walls.
I think he is the best Riddler but the worst adaptation of the Riddler
In live action*
This was the worst version of the riddler. They basically turned him into the Zodiac killer. Then they made him an autistic 4chan user who spazzes out at Batman. Then he starts singing Ave Maria. It was pathetic.
His riddler was interesting. Mixed with the Zodiac Killer.
This was Definitely Hush not The Riddler even tho in the Animation Hush it’s Actually The Riddler under the mask
I really like this version.
It's very serial killerish which is a much needed course change for this character.
Not sure why they changed his name tho
It was Edward Nashton for awhile. Edward Nigma sounds too over the top.
@@ryanhunter226 well, it's a comic movie. Nigma isn't even close to the most over the top aspects of this movie
You should make a video on Cory Micheal Smith's Riddler
ua-cam.com/video/ezsS0PPD-Ak/v-deo.html
Definitely the most disturbing Riddler. But, let's face it, practically a new villain they slapped the Riddler brand on, and gave Hush's motivations to. Works very well in context, and he can still evolve into something more akin to the original.
The ugly mask is the only thing about it i don't like. The rest of his character i love.
As someone who has no strong feeling about the Bat-saga, I will say I enjoyed Dano's villain just fine, he served his purpose in the film (which was really more about Battinson than anyone else) and felt sadly all too real in this current climate; but I can't really say one of his quotes or recall a specific Moment of his. But that's probably because adults of my age were first exposed to the Riddler via Jim Carey's wacky as hell, questionable but highly memorable - for all the wrong reasons? - performance, so whenever someone says "Riddler", green sparkly leotard on a throne is always gonna pop up in my head first.
I can imagen Cory Michael Smiths Riddler doing that stuff. Hese the best Riddler.
Riddler + "Realism" = The Zodiac
I liked it but I think that they had to break an important part of the Riddlers character to make him work: Riddler is compulsively self defeating and ultimately sabotages himself cause he has a deep self loathing. his narcissism won't let him see it, but deep down his low self esteem eats away at his competence. A guy who subconsciously leaves Riddles even when he tries not to. He cannot allow himself to succeed and I did miss thst wrinkle to the character. .
Mostly cause it's a mirror of Bruce and his own compulsion to be Batman means he can never truly be happy. it's why his relationships don't work, why he alienated Dick Greyson into leaving, why he worries he'll crack one day because Bruce is much more self aware of these tendecies.
I said the riddler costume looks like the green bastard from trailer park boys
Why is vee cutting up portions of other videos and posting them as individual ones?
Literally just made this video, what are you talking about?
@@VI_V2 ah my fault I didn't finish the video. Based off the title I thought it was part of another video where you mentioned if his riddler was good
Hakuna Matata. No worries.
For about 10 years i said that if they were going to do the riddler again it should've been a take that was more like the seven killer saw or the zodiac killer so i loved when The Batman went that route
Hell yeah!
I just hope you have good words for Batfleck
And if he doesn’t?
Frank Gorshin will always be the best Riddler, but Paul Dano is a decent take. Just put him in an actual Riddler costume instead of whatever he wore in this movie.
What a biased take.
Lame ass take
@@heyimpercy7368 No, it's not. Frank Gorshin is the best Riddler. He's funny, charismatic, and embodies the charm of the character to a T. There are certainly other good Riddler actors, but nobody can top the GOAT Frank Gorshin.
@@PixelFlickz No, because I'll admit that Heath Ledger is a much better Joker than Cesar Romero. It's just that Frank Gorshin is the best Riddler and always will be.
@@jeremyusreevu237 It looks like you decided that he’s the best before even seeing Paul Dano’s riddler, rendering your opinion biased.
Paul Dano was a fine choice, but they took a terrible direction with the character. From copying Zodiac to Jigsaw, the character's motivation is straight out of "Law Abiding Citizen" where the main character was the accidental Villain (Jamie Foxx) and the "Villain" who has been depicted as the "Hero" in all other revenge movies (Gerard Butler) taking out the corrupt. The twist of Riddler thinking him and Batman were working together was horrible and made the Riddler look like an idiot. Then you have a good dialogue take a terrible turn when Nashton starts yelling "Noooooooo" and signing to Batman.
I think Gotham's Riddler is the best, only because the Riddler's we see in other stuff has a single goal and it makes you think "what happens now?" but in Gotham Riddler is just kinda doing what he wants.
I didn’t leave The Dark Knight wanting more Heath Ledger’s Joker, they gave me a sufficient amount of him in the movie. I did leave The Batman (2023) wanting more of Paul Dano’s Riddler because there was not enough of him in the movie.
Frank gorshin is the greatest riddler period,he pretty much defined what the riddler should be and look like,if it werent for him the riddler would never have his classic green suit and tie.its sad that some people think this is the best riddler.
Ofc not its Cory Smith
Wwe please yes