Thank you for this. Got it for Christmas, felt a little intimidated to try to teach it to my family, but you put me at ease. This might actually work out. We play lots of games, but sometimes the overly complicated ones can be frightening for some.
Not just because of the Ian O'Toole tie-in, but I am still surprised this is not a Vital Lacerda game published by Eagle-Gryphon. Many design similarities.
ahh damn, I really came close to backing this one and sneaking it past my wife into the collection. Guess I'll have to add it to the wishlist for a future purchase.
I liked the game but it really depends on who you play with. If they let someone get all 3 levels of an upgrade, then that person has a higher chance of winning. Other than that, I don't think there's another way to win by making sure to block people. AP can be a problem.
I agree with a lot of this review, and I definitely like the game. But for me it fits more in the euro bucket than the economic one. It's more about efficiencies and puzzling than it is about direct interaction and shared incentives, which is where I draw the line. Personally I really like both types of games, but I do remember expecting this to be economic and in practice having it feel more euro. But I get why a lot of people are putting it in the economic category, I just personally wouldn't.
Hmm, I am beginning to think I've been using "economic games" as a term quite incorrectly. I was under the impression it was a sub-category within Euro game design rather than its whole other genre. I can't say I've played anything that would fully qualify as economic then. Unless, would Brass Birmingham (one of my all time favourites) and/or Arkwright be considered economic games? Or are they euros?
@@MoriMemento117 Well, these kinds of distinctions really aren't at all precise, different people use them different ways, and I think that's ok. I don't think there are hard and fast rules and I tend to think of categorizing games using a sort of "family resemblance" system. There are certainly people who think of economic games as a subset of euro, but for me they give a different enough kind of experience and provide a different type of enjoyment that I find it useful to separate them. There are also people whose line is basically that games in which most money wins at the end are economic games. Though I guess most of those people wouldn't call Orleans an economic game, so there's a bit more to it than that. There are also people who use the term very broadly. I've seen people call Concordia an economic game. However, I think many people would call Brass (either version) an economic game, even though it has victory points that are distinct from money, possibly at least to an extent because of the theme. For me the reason that it feels like an economic game is that a big part of the game is in thinking about how to take advantage of what other people want and are trying to do. I think this comes out more clearly in Lancashire with the ports (with Birmingham there's the beer, but it seems more possible in Birmingham to protect your beer than in Lancashire to protect your ports), but I think the way that iron and coal work in both contribute to that as well. Because everything is a public resource you have to be careful about what you offer when and what you take. Arkwright again most people would call economic, because it has shares and most money wins and it's about running factories, producing goods, and selling them to the markets. The fact that you can only buy shares in your own company except with a variant means it's not really a stock game in the traditional sense. You're not cross investing and there's not that shared incentives aspect. I believe that's why Ray made the recent City of the Big Shoulders, to mix an Arkwright style factory management and production system with 18xx style stocks. Personally for me Arkwright is sort of a hybrid euro-economic game. You still get some economic aspects in terms of the market which is very central to the game and very interactive, but there's also a large portion of the game that comes down to the optimization and management type stuff that to me characterizes euros. So the reason that I feel Pipeline is much more euro is because it feels like a big part of the game is in the puzzling of the tiles and the multitude of ways to gain action efficiency, whereas the market is fairly simple and the only interaction is the euro kind of indirect 'I took that thing before you could' type. Hopefully this was somewhat informative of my perspective at least.
@@aweso That's a great analysis. Thanks! I definitely agree with the "family resemblance" system idea. For me I feel that Brass Birmingham is a Euro with slight economic elements. Arkwright being the reverse of that also makes sense. I think the reason these classification systems get a bad rap from some people is just down to the fact we all don't play the same kind of games. Someone who only intends on playing Monopoly and Risk really has no need for such terms as "euro" or "economic". For another example, a biologist will classify fossils in a different way that a physicist. It doesn't mean such classifications are wrong, or even that each is observing a different reality... it's just each has a different set of needs that a classification system would satisfy. I think the more we communicate and share ideas in a helpful manner the more useful these systems are.
An awesome game. But for some it can be hard to get the economic machine running. We had couple of games were people struggle with their money till the last rounds.
I like it too. There are so many games to choose from, and I have a very limited budget. I need to know which games are truly outstanding, not just good.
Gary S. The seals of excellence are only given to games that a mass audience would enjoy, not necessarily the best games for you and your group. The seal of approval is an endorsement of a game, but it’s also important to listen to the reviewer and the rules overview to decide if it’s right for you and your group. If you only buy the games The Dice Tower gives excellence awards to, you’ll end up with a library of games that most anyone can and will enjoy, but perhaps not that you personally like best. For me, Pipeline gets a seal of excellence. It’s the best game I’ve played this year and is never leaving my collection because it’s perfect for me and my gaming group.
@@MichaelZipkin an excellent isn't always a game the mass will enjoy. An excellent is an 8.5 or more. For instance Lorenzo Il magnifico, gloomhaven, fields of arle, stockpile, etc... Many other games that wouldn't appeal to the general mass audience. It's not like the Spiel Des Jahres. Tom simply doesn't think this is an excellent game.
there is not any economy or business in the game. The prices looks stagnate, +1, +2 price is meaningless. You can sell your oil anywhere. But You dont need to sell oil, you can get points for everything, from nothing. I dont like end game goals, this game is all about it. You can make more point from goals then "oil business ".
Approved only!? C'mon. This is GotY material :P Tom, you have to explain to my though. Sometimes you're really enthusiastic about something in your overview and it only get's approved. Sometimes I think your ok with a game during the overview, and there comes the excellent seal. I sometimes miss how that is related.
I felt it too restrictive... and did not like the the whole "if you get a contract, you have to fulfill it at every round again and again or you will get a penalty"...
is it just at first look or is the game really like its too much business. it rather feels like you run a business and try to optimize your income instead of playing a game, there isnt even anything goodlooking at least, pure numbers and tables, and even though it has a theme, I kinda feel like after 1 or 2 games you wouldnt even care because it almost feels like it doesnt have one, you just sell stuff, could be anything else than oil
Thanks for reviewing the game!
Thank you for this. Got it for Christmas, felt a little intimidated to try to teach it to my family, but you put me at ease. This might actually work out. We play lots of games, but sometimes the overly complicated ones can be frightening for some.
Favorite game of the year. Glad Tom likes it.
Heck yeah, Tom! I LOVE this game and I'm glad to see you enjoy it.
Not just because of the Ian O'Toole tie-in, but I am still surprised this is not a Vital Lacerda game published by Eagle-Gryphon. Many design similarities.
ahh damn, I really came close to backing this one and sneaking it past my wife into the collection. Guess I'll have to add it to the wishlist for a future purchase.
Wow
I had you down for this not being your thing Tom.
Pleasantly suprised.
Love this game. Game of the year (so far) for me.
I liked the game but it really depends on who you play with. If they let someone get all 3 levels of an upgrade, then that person has a higher chance of winning. Other than that, I don't think there's another way to win by making sure to block people. AP can be a problem.
This is easily my favorite non-18XX game of the last few years. Love it and can’t play it enough.
Tom’s tie matches the game box
If you are looking for games about pipes, 1972 WATERWORKS is an OK game and has little metal pipe wrenches 😁
I really enjoy Power Grid, would I enjoy this game? It looks similar.
Yes you will, it's not similiar though.
I agree with a lot of this review, and I definitely like the game. But for me it fits more in the euro bucket than the economic one. It's more about efficiencies and puzzling than it is about direct interaction and shared incentives, which is where I draw the line. Personally I really like both types of games, but I do remember expecting this to be economic and in practice having it feel more euro. But I get why a lot of people are putting it in the economic category, I just personally wouldn't.
Hmm, I am beginning to think I've been using "economic games" as a term quite incorrectly. I was under the impression it was a sub-category within Euro game design rather than its whole other genre. I can't say I've played anything that would fully qualify as economic then. Unless, would Brass Birmingham (one of my all time favourites) and/or Arkwright be considered economic games? Or are they euros?
@@MoriMemento117 Brass Birmingham is Euro for sure.
@@MoriMemento117 Well, these kinds of distinctions really aren't at all precise, different people use them different ways, and I think that's ok. I don't think there are hard and fast rules and I tend to think of categorizing games using a sort of "family resemblance" system. There are certainly people who think of economic games as a subset of euro, but for me they give a different enough kind of experience and provide a different type of enjoyment that I find it useful to separate them. There are also people whose line is basically that games in which most money wins at the end are economic games. Though I guess most of those people wouldn't call Orleans an economic game, so there's a bit more to it than that. There are also people who use the term very broadly. I've seen people call Concordia an economic game.
However, I think many people would call Brass (either version) an economic game, even though it has victory points that are distinct from money, possibly at least to an extent because of the theme. For me the reason that it feels like an economic game is that a big part of the game is in thinking about how to take advantage of what other people want and are trying to do. I think this comes out more clearly in Lancashire with the ports (with Birmingham there's the beer, but it seems more possible in Birmingham to protect your beer than in Lancashire to protect your ports), but I think the way that iron and coal work in both contribute to that as well. Because everything is a public resource you have to be careful about what you offer when and what you take.
Arkwright again most people would call economic, because it has shares and most money wins and it's about running factories, producing goods, and selling them to the markets. The fact that you can only buy shares in your own company except with a variant means it's not really a stock game in the traditional sense. You're not cross investing and there's not that shared incentives aspect. I believe that's why Ray made the recent City of the Big Shoulders, to mix an Arkwright style factory management and production system with 18xx style stocks.
Personally for me Arkwright is sort of a hybrid euro-economic game. You still get some economic aspects in terms of the market which is very central to the game and very interactive, but there's also a large portion of the game that comes down to the optimization and management type stuff that to me characterizes euros. So the reason that I feel Pipeline is much more euro is because it feels like a big part of the game is in the puzzling of the tiles and the multitude of ways to gain action efficiency, whereas the market is fairly simple and the only interaction is the euro kind of indirect 'I took that thing before you could' type.
Hopefully this was somewhat informative of my perspective at least.
@@aweso That's a great analysis. Thanks! I definitely agree with the "family resemblance" system idea. For me I feel that Brass Birmingham is a Euro with slight economic elements. Arkwright being the reverse of that also makes sense. I think the reason these classification systems get a bad rap from some people is just down to the fact we all don't play the same kind of games. Someone who only intends on playing Monopoly and Risk really has no need for such terms as "euro" or "economic". For another example, a biologist will classify fossils in a different way that a physicist. It doesn't mean such classifications are wrong, or even that each is observing a different reality... it's just each has a different set of needs that a classification system would satisfy. I think the more we communicate and share ideas in a helpful manner the more useful these systems are.
An awesome game. But for some it can be hard to get the economic machine running. We had couple of games were people struggle with their money till the last rounds.
Yes, some people will struggle. It's delicious.
I have this game and my family loves it!
Ohhh the seals of excellence have become so rare now... I like it!!!
I like it too. There are so many games to choose from, and I have a very limited budget. I need to know which games are truly outstanding, not just good.
But it only got approved not excellent? :-)
@@boardgamefangirl only approved... I was like whaaa? :D
Gary S. The seals of excellence are only given to games that a mass audience would enjoy, not necessarily the best games for you and your group. The seal of approval is an endorsement of a game, but it’s also important to listen to the reviewer and the rules overview to decide if it’s right for you and your group. If you only buy the games The Dice Tower gives excellence awards to, you’ll end up with a library of games that most anyone can and will enjoy, but perhaps not that you personally like best.
For me, Pipeline gets a seal of excellence. It’s the best game I’ve played this year and is never leaving my collection because it’s perfect for me and my gaming group.
@@MichaelZipkin an excellent isn't always a game the mass will enjoy. An excellent is an 8.5 or more. For instance Lorenzo Il magnifico, gloomhaven, fields of arle, stockpile, etc... Many other games that wouldn't appeal to the general mass audience. It's not like the Spiel Des Jahres. Tom simply doesn't think this is an excellent game.
there is not any economy or business in the game. The prices looks stagnate, +1, +2 price is meaningless. You can sell your oil anywhere. But You dont need to sell oil, you can get points for everything, from nothing. I dont like end game goals, this game is all about it. You can make more point from goals then "oil business ".
Approved only!? C'mon. This is GotY material :P Tom, you have to explain to my though. Sometimes you're really enthusiastic about something in your overview and it only get's approved. Sometimes I think your ok with a game during the overview, and there comes the excellent seal. I sometimes miss how that is related.
I felt it too restrictive... and did not like the the whole "if you get a contract, you have to fulfill it at every round again and again or you will get a penalty"...
whenever I see something with so many little pieces I can't help but think it should have been a video game.
is it just at first look or is the game really like its too much business. it rather feels like you run a business and try to optimize your income instead of playing a game, there isnt even anything goodlooking at least, pure numbers and tables, and even though it has a theme, I kinda feel like after 1 or 2 games you wouldnt even care because it almost feels like it doesnt have one, you just sell stuff, could be anything else than oil
Rahdo said you were right about this game. I think he said not to tell you. oops
Too much for us. Light and simple games are just more fun these days.
So not excelent. Interesting
This game looks far to much like work, or an excel spreadsheet turned into a board game. PASS.
Too bad.
Can never take your reviews seriously after you're disrespectful to the contents
move on then.
What is so sacred about a board game that dumping components on a table is considered disrespect and invalidates a reviewer's opinion?