@@deathkitty23 as someone fairly new to the game some of these are totally counter intuitive, like the paying costs 2nd part, and iv even had to explain the morp thing to other people who have been playing longer then I have.
Tapping the land first in the lightning bolt example isn't necessarily wrong, you're just not mentioning the red mana created sitting in your mana pool and then being used to pay for the spell in the stack.
@@NStripleseven Exactly, it's less to do with the mana part of the cost as it is the sacrifice part of the cost. You can of course tap for mana whenever you want, so it's absolutely fine to tap mana before playing a card that only has mana in the cost. It's even fine to tap mana first for Tortured Existence, but you do need to be mindful of the further cost of the sacrifice and when that is paid. Again, this only really matters if your intention was to bring back the sacrificed creature, since you can't. An example here would be if you had one creature in the graveyard, one creature on the battlefield, and ten swamps. You could tap all ten swamps, then sacrifice the creature on the battlefield, target the creature in the graveyard to bring it back, and repeat this ten times. Assuming of course your opponent doesn't respond to any of the ten separate activations at any point. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm actually wrong here. EDIT: just realised you can't do this because it goes to your hand not the battlefield, but you get the idea of what I'm saying.
You didn’t even mention the stupidest part of the rules for casting a spell. Even before choosing targets, the very first thing you do is move the card to the stack. Which gets messy if there’s continuous effects which care about your number of cards in hand. You can’t cast Dimir Charm “destroy target creature with power 2 or less” on an Enemy of Enlightenment “5/5 gets -1/-1 for each card in your opponent’s hands” if you’ve only got three cards in hand. It’s sitting over there as a 2/2 but if you try and target the thing it’ll be a 3/3 before you get the chance.
One interaction I learned about recently is that Alpine Moon naming Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth won't keep it from turning other lands into swamps. I know the layers-reason but it's extremely unintuitive.
One Interesting interaction is that if there’s a rule of law on the field and you cast a spell, you can’t afterwards suspend a card for its suspend cost. Suspend is an special action (not casting a spell) but to be able to suspend a card the rules reminder says “ Rather than cast this card…you suspend”, but you can’t cast the card so you can’t suspend the card.
I never knew this was a thing, but that is a pretty crappy rule. Since you cast the card with Suspend once all of its time counters are depleted, this means a Suspend card actually eats up your one spell for the turn (under Rule of Law) on TWO separate turns. Doesn't sit right with me.
@@WMDistraction That's a useful mental model, and practically speaking I like to think about it as everything involved in casting a spell happening simultaneously, but sometimes you do need to break it down. In actuality, you put the spell on the stack _first,_ then choose it targets, then check whether the targets are legal, then finalise the spell's cost before paying for it.
One of the (imo) most interesting rules interactions are Sylvan Library plus Brainstorm (or other instant-speed draw spells). This interaction happens when you draw cards on your upkeep with a Sylvan Library in play. Say you cast Brainstorm, draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards back on top of your library. Then you go to your draw step. Sylvan Library triggers, and you draw 3 cards. Now you choose 2 cards that you drew this turn, and either pay 4 life to keep them, or put them back on top. However, since you drew cards with a Brainstorm earlier, the cards you put back can theoretically be cards drawn with this, and not just be the usual Sylvan Library cards you keep separately while choosing which to keep. This leads to own of the few instances where you need to call a judge to watch your hand while you draw with Brainstorm and put back cards with Library, to check that you only put back legal cards. Your opponent can't do this, without giving them extra information that they aren't supposed to have.
@@reisiramv That not only gives extra information to your opponent if you do it properly, it can also be used to cheat if done improperly. Let's say you have 3 cards in hand, 2 cards plus Brainstorm. If you Brainstorm, you draw 3 and put 2 cards from your hand back on top. Your hand can now contain either contain 3 new cards, 2 new cards and 1 old card, or 1 new card and 2 old cards, but your opponent doesn't know which. If you put the cards you drew from Brainstorm in a separate pile, your opponent will know whether you kept your old cards they've been playing around, or if you got new cards they need to figure out how to play around. If they ever add those cards to their hand before making that pile, they could cheat and say some of the old cards were drawn by Brainstorm. To prevent this information problem, and to prevent potential cheating (accidental or purposeful), a judge must be present to verify that the choices you are making with Sylvan Library are legal.
Let’s make it really fun - crack a fetch in between the brainstorm and resolving the Sylvan Library. Would you need to have Force of Will copy #1 that just got shuffled in marked in some way to track if it randomly shuffled its way back to the top and gets drawn with the Library? Versus the other three FoW’s somewhere in your deck?
The one that always tripped up my opponents was that spells that target anything that have no targets left when they resolved are countered automatically. Happened to me in a draft. Someone cast Electrolyze on my creature, who I then sac'd to pay for something else. He then tried to draw his card and when I said he couldn't since Electrolyze was countered due to lack of a legal target, an argument ensued.
This is pretty brutal when playing cards like Stomping Giant and Virtue of Persistent, since if the adventure doesn't resolve it goes to the graveyard and the permanent card can't be played later.
My favorite thing is how abilities can trigger and not go on the stack yet. I learned of this in my Hidetsugu and Kairi commander deck which runs a bunch of clone cards. Hidetusugu and Kairi has an etb and death trigger, and is a legendary creature. So if I go to clone it without something that removes the legend rule, the clone will enter and the etb will trigger, and before it's even put on the stack, state based actions are checked, so it dies to the legend rule which trigger the death trigger also before the etb is put on the stack. The etb and death triggers then go on the stack at the same time, allowing me to put the death trigger on first, so it resolves last
Yup, that's one of the scenarios where knowing the rules well can help you play better. I'm sure lots of people think it has to on the stack in the order it triggered.
Morph has to be a special action, anyone who says it shouldn't be hasn't thought about it, morph is supposed to be about mystery and what the creature could be, and if in response to paying a morph cost you could just shock the morph, well it would make it way to weak of a mechanic and not do anything
That’s as stupid as me saying instants shouldn’t be able to be responded to because that would mean they aren’t “instantaneous” Morph is a special action because wotc decided it is, nothing really else to say about it. It could function as a regular activated ability if they had made it that way instead.
@@wizardsmix7961 but then what would be the point of having a morph creature at all, it would just be weaker then a normal creature with an etb that does the exact same thing, morphs are a special action to stop people from shocking a morph after you have paid the mana to morph it in order to stop the on flip effect, imagine if a kill spell could stop an etb trigger essentially
@@loosemoose5217 First of all, no, activated abilities and ETB’s have entirely different uses. Secondly, the point of morph is to be a surprise, you don’t know if your opponent is hiding a beefy creature or a counterspell on a stick. To say morphs would be useless because removal exists is stupid. This is the classic “dies to doom blade” argument that “died” ages ago.
@@wizardsmix7961 but there would be no suprise, you could tell from the mana they are spending what the creature will roughly be and then shock the morph and remove it, it would make morph incredibly weak, and again as I said, making a kill spell stop essentially an etb is dumb, morph is already a rather weak mechanic, if it used the stack it would be all but uselss, do you think WOTC made morph not use the stack cause they just randomly decided or do you think they playtested it using the stack and realized it didn't really work
@@wizardsmix7961 also I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying, the "on flip" effect is essentially an ETB, yes its different but its also very similar, now imagine a creature where if you used a kill spell it also stopped the ETB, that creature would now be considerably weaker
Haven't seen anyone else mention it, so I will. At 4:49 you say you can flip a morph creature any time you could use a mana ability, but you can't. You need priority for this just like normal abilities, it just doesn't use the stack. You can NOT flip morphs while you are putting a spell on the stack like mana abilities.
@Diego Sampaio 601.2g: If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, "Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid. 601.2 describes the steps to casting a spell, this step comes after making choices like modes and optional costs. Why do you even come back with "trust me bro" after getting a rule number quoted
@Diego Sampaio yes and because you've been playing for so long is why you make this mistake. This rule was added because technically saying what you're casting before tapping mana used to be cheating. Which was annoying as shit because in casual play people did it in whatever order. So they changed the rules.
@Diego Sampaio You're not making much of an argument at this point. Tell me why my interpretation of 601.2g is wrong, show me a conflicting rule, or show me a judge that can do either of those things or just accept that the game isn't the same as it was when you still knew everything.
5:23 - there is no need to cry when the opponent has a counterspell. After Willbender's ability resolves, they can let the Sudden Spoiling resolve and then counter the Shock.
That's why the correct play is to Shock, wait to see if opponent counters, and let it resolve before casting the Sudden Spoiling. Although, in the scenario described, it's a game-ending play, so you just have to do it and hope, but if it's not ending the game, you cast your very innocent-looking Shock on the indestructible creature, wait to see what happens, and if Shock is countered, you don't waste your Sudden Spoiling, and if it's not countered, you Spoil for the kill. REALLY, the correct play is after the Verdant Touch resolves, you Sudden Spoiling so the Cathedral is now a 0/2 and doesn't have exalted, so at best, the Darksteel Garrison trigger could make it a 1/3, which you can survive.
@@cultoftyler9045 well, it's been 9 months since I watched the video, but just going off of what I wrote, if you Shock for 2 damage, and it resolves, and then Sudden Spoiling, a 0/2 creature has 2 damage marked on it, so it dies. In this case, Sudden Spoiling would result in a kill. So, you Shock first, if you're worried about a counter spell, then Sudden Spoil if the Shock wasn't countered, and the result is a dead creature.
Any of the legendaries with the grandeur ability, chromatic sphere, word of wind and suppression field. Grandeur --- Discard a card with the same named "this creature": do things. You give an extra 2 mana cost increased to this with suppression field. You activate grandeur, it goes to the stack waiting to be paid for. Since you can pay multiple type of cost in the order you want, you pay the mana firdt with chromatic spheren who let you draw a card without using the stack. You replace the draw with word of wind by a bounce effect. You bounce the creature with grandeur to your hand. You finish paying the grandeur activation by discarting the card that was it's source in the first place.
One well-known interaction I find "morally wrong" even though it's technically correct is the interaction between Blood Moon and Urza's Saga. "Morally" speaking, Urza's Saga should just turn into a basic mountain, but because of complex rules interaction, it actually gets discarded. I think this is a case where, because of how precisely delineated and layered the rules are, the correct application of the rules has a pathological result that would ideally not happen if the rules themselves were designed optimally.
The reason is that Blood Moon doesn't change the card types of nonbasic lands, or the subtypes that aren't land types. So Urza's Saga under a Blood Moon is still a Saga enchantment, and since it lost all its chapter abilities, it goes to the graveyard as a state-based action. The most intuitive rules change would be to make Blood Moon (and all the other old cards that make lands into specific basic lands) take away all other card types and subtypes. However, this would also have unintuitive consequences, because dropping a Blood Moon would then de-animate any animated lands.
My LEAST favorite rules interaction is when you have a damage multiplier and a damage additive like say +2 to damage and a damage doubler, it isn’t YOU who gets to pick how the math stacks - it’s whoever or whoever is controlling what is being affected gets to choose how it stacks. It is a WILD bummer.
@@freddiesimmons1394 It's as per rule 616.1. 'If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).' In the case of dealing damage, the creature, player or planeswalker receiving that damage is considered the 'affected object', which means that the targeted player, or the controller of the targeted creature or planeswalker, chooses in which order the replacement effects are applied to damage. Counterintuitive, but still within the realm of comprehension. An actually insane example would be casting Volcanic Fallout with a Furnace of Rath, Hostility and Hallow in play.
I think all of these rulings should be as is. The only really stupid interactions I can think of in magic is the entirety of the order of operations that continuous effects happen in.
I learned that second rules interaction with my favorite commander: Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. If you have Grenzo on the field with an Ashnod's Altar, you can actually sacrifice Grenzo to pay for his own ability. This is because you first declare the ability's activation, and then move to paying costs, which is done with mana abilities, such as Ashnod's Altar's ability. As a result, you can declare you'll be using Grenzo's ability and then sacrifice Grenzo as part of the mana ability used to pay for it. Wild stuff.
So this isn't a stupid interaction per se, but it is an interesting one, One of my personal favorites in fact. Caged Sun (Green) Ashaya, Soul of the Wild Karn, the Great Creator's + ability to animate Caged Sun Caged Sun is now an artifact creature land - Forest Tap Caged Sun for a green, since green is your chosen color and caged sun is a land, it sees itself producing a green mana, thus its last ability triggers, producing an additional green mana > It sees itself producing a green mana and makes another green mana > Repeat Another Interaction involving land interactions: Song of the Dryads/Imprisoned in the Moon enchanting any of its legal targets > Play Vesuva copying whatever permanent was enchanted. Due to Enchanted permanent now being a land through an outside source, Vesuva can now become a full 1:1 Copy of whatever said permanent was.
While I think your Caged Sun example is correct (Caged Sun is worded VERY strangely), doesn't it end the game in a draw? You can't stop adding mana, so I think it qualifies as an unstoppable infinite loop that doesn't otherwise end the game.
I think my dumbest rules interaction is Selvala and panglacial Wurm, basically you can cheat trying to cast panglacial Wurm with sevala during a mid liberary search. Which is weird, in fact, I can't think of another card that interrupts you in the middle of resolving an ability like this. But it gets worse, the cheating comes from you can use panglacial wurm to create an opportunity to use sevala's mana ability during a instance where you know all the information in your library (seeing as you can see the top card). But wait! there's more! It's possible for you to *fail* to cast the wurm if you brick on the sevala mana enough. So now you've done an illegal game action, using information you shouldn't have had access to and drawn a card you shouldn't have been able to draw. It's cheating, somehow you have created a scenario where you cheated.
My absolute favorite head scratcher of an interaction is thieves' auction and confusion in the ranks. On the surface it's like "ok, delayed triggers solve this" but when you look closer it's a rabbit hole of what goes on the stack and when
Interacting with other players split second spells with mana abilities, triggered abilities, and special actions is one of the most satisfying feelings as a Magic player. Can also be the most frustrating feeling when your opponent goes full denial mode and insists that split second is the same as being uncounterable.
A combo I used to play in commander was metallic mimic + murderous redcap + skirk prospector. You can put a split second spell on the stack such as extirpate and then win the game with skirk prospectors mana abilities and murderous redcaps triggered abilities. This lets you win using a graveyard loop with things like tormods crypt or other activated gy hate on the field and your opponents can't use them to respond.
Funny enough I built my Karen’s morph deck with these interactions in mind. Opponent plays a board wipe that only destroys opponents stuff, I play a split second card then use a morph ability to steal and play the board whip in response while nobody can react. Fun times.
The Tortured Existence example is similar to cards that have "as additional cost to cast this card, sacrifice a creature". Have to sacrifice a creature and pay its mana cost before the card goes on the stack.
This comment is a year old, but I might as well respond: the land equipment is not the dumb part. The dumb part is tapping a land for mana to get its triggered ability to work in response to a spell with split second.
The reason morph is a special action is because if it uses the stack it’s dumb. Imagine having a face down 2/2, putting morph on the stack (but you gotta show the card so we know the morph cost. Now the opponent can see what it’s gonna be and shock it while it’s still a 2/2 instead of the 4/4 it will become
I had a player try and krosan grip my ashnods altar, so I just sacked my board to it and killed him with a blood artist type effect. He was upset to say the least
my favorite rule is "101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can’t happen, the “can’t” effect takes precedence."
[Ab]using Mana Abilities to respond to Split Second was actually a common strategy in Legacy Lands (namely revolving around Krosam Verge, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Punishing Fire.)
I've always found it counterintuitive that creatures whose toughnesses rely on the number of cards you have in your hand don't die when a wheel effect is used, since state-based actions are never checked in the middle of spell resolution (unless it involves Panglacial Wurm being cast while searching the library as well and even then I'm not sure if any cards even exist that have both a search and a wheel in the same resolution or simultaneous). I know why the rules work as they do in this manner, it's just counterintuitive to me that something whose toughness relies on your cards in hand won't die when you discard your hand and the game will only check to see once the toughness is once the spell resolves.
For things like Persecute and Cabal Therapy. It is detrimental for you to "name a card/color" before they respond since if it is a whiff then they can decide not to counter it. Correct way to play these is to say "I cast Persecute, do you counter?" and then choose after the resolution. Apparently this is not true for "target" spells like bolt in which you DO need to choose a target at declaration of the spell. However what you can do, is to say "I target you with a Bolt" and then after it resolves, redirect the damage to a Planeswalker.
One of my favs is words of war or any others of the word cycle + chromatic sphere, making an uninteractible shock or something like that at the speed of mana (provided you already activated the words)
It has to be that way though, morph has to be a special action. If it wasn't morph would basically not work as it's intended, if it used the stack, in response to a morph creature being flipped you could just shock it, and you would also know what they are morphing into in a way, cause you could tell what mana they had to tap, so if someone pays 5 mana and activates a morph creature, you would just shock it while it's still a 2/2
You pay the cost of a spell after choosing its targets. That doesnt mean you have to Tap your mountain after choosing targets. You can Tap for mana at any point during that step/phase.
Some more mana ability weirdness for y'all: Firstly, Pristine Talisman has a mana ability that gains you 1 life, so you can dodge out of a Sudden Shock to the face at 2. Not too fancy, but probably the most simple example of the type of weirdness that can occur. Meanwhile, Priest of Forgotten Gods does not have a mana ability despite how it may seem, because the ability targets. Well, it *could* target, so even if you decide not to target anything it's still not a mana ability, so no shenanigans there.
Story I've heard is someone winning with exquisite blood/sanguine bond using an opponents krosan grip as protection due to split second not stopping mana abilities, aka pristine talisman.
An interesting fact is that every card with Darksteel in its name is indestructible, except for Darksteel Garrison and Darksteel Mutation. Its a strange inconsistency with the theme.
Not really. They both give whatever they're attached to indestructible. For most Darksteel stuff they're made of Darksteel, for those two it's turning whatever it's attached to into darksteel.
I’m wondering if the new Soul of Windgrace’s discard a land: draw a card, can be used to discard dakmoor salvage and dredge it back to hand immediately. I suspect it doesn’t work, but not entirely sure why. I love that morph gets around split second, there’s an exception for everything in magic.
That actually totally works. You announce your intention to use the ability, which puts the draw a card activation on the stack and pay the costs. When you go to resolve the activation, dakmor salvage will be in your graveyard since the it was discarded before you resolve the ability, so you can totally dredge it back. Hope this helps :)
@@capn206 To add onto this, Dredge is a replacement effect, and would work even if the discard wasn't a cost, as long as the discard happens before the draw. Thrilling Discovery has you discard two before drawing three, so you could discard two Dredge cards, and then replace two of those draws with those same Dredge cards.
Minor correction on the mana ability comparison you used for Morph: You compared to to mana abilities. While it is a special action and it does not require the stack (and can’t be responded to, much like mana abilities), mana abilities can be activated at some times that Morph cannot. Mainly that is while casting a spell or paying other costs. You can’t go to cast a spell, and then decide you want to morph during the payment process (which depending on what mana abilities you can activate, sometimes could allow you to cast the infamous Panglacial Wurm). Also as others have pointed out for tap before cast vs cast then tap, both are valid. You’re just floating the red for a brief moment before spending it on the spell. That said, yes you must first declare targets and all of that before paying the costs.
Oh god, Panglacial Wurm… I saw a rules interaction recently with it, Archmage Ascension and Chromatic Orb. Orb is a mana ability, so you can draw a card while casting a spell. Ascension replaces that with a search, so you can cast Panglacial Wurm while casting another spell. This card was such a mistake.
What would happen if you declared that you are casting a spell and then when it came time to pay the cost you did not have the mana? Would the spell even be played? Or would it stay in your hand? Also, when you attempt to cast a spell and it goes on the stack, is that spell no longer in your hand? Or can you respond to some kind of counter spell by discarding it? Not sure why you would want to though...
You are not allowed to try casting a spell unless you can pay for it. However, if you have a mana ability that makes an indeterminate amount of mana (Selvala, Explorer Returned), you can try to cast the spell as long as you could possibly pay for it. If you don’t have enough mana in the end, you undo everything since you cast the spell, except for Selvala’s ability. Spells are no longer in your hand as soon as you start casting them. However, your opponents can’t do anything while you’re casting a spell, and you can do very little, so this doesn’t matter very much.
Just so you know about these strange interactions it's possible for a player to place their entire deck into their commander zone. It's also possible for you to make your opponents attack themselves through some strange interactions. It's also a to completely lock down all permanents as 1/1 creatures with no abilities and for your opponent(s) to be completely unable to take any actions unless they have a very specific set of cards in their hands once the combo is in place. It's also possible to produce an infinite loop of infinite loops that causes so many triggers that you will crash the server for arena/MTGO/cockatrice, ect... that last combo is particularly nasty because once it starts it is self fueling and even a field sweep won't stop it unless you are able to blast all creatures and all land and all Enchantments at the same time and even if you do the combo will still continue dropping creatures after you get the field sweep off they'll just be an infinite army of 1/1 creatures. Something else is that it's very possible for you to place your entire deck in exile and get it all back within a few turns. You can also play a combo on turn two or so that results in you having a couple 10/10 creatures with trample while your opponent will never draw any more cards and you will be playing your opponent's deck. Your also able to tap your opponent's lands for mana and the last strange interaction I can think of is creating a senerio where your opponent(s) have only one choice conceded to you or the game will never end. That last one basically setup a senerio where all players have a platinum angel and no hand, deck or other permanents The senerio is a draw sorta. There is also a particularly mean combo that allows you to spend five or six mana on a single spell and hit for around 200 damage plus as early as turn 3. Granted that requires some special preparation and a bit of luck but once it's in place you'll play one spell and everyone except you will be hit for a minimum of 60 and you will be sitting there with a big grin and saying that was a lot of damage.
@@brycenelsonnelson1487 I'll do my best to give you the cards involved in most of the combos. The ability to make the opponents attack themselves works with a single card that makes the opponent's creatures deal combat damage to their controller instead of whomever they are actually attacking. The exiling of your entire deck or your opponents deck is done with leveler's enter the battlefield ability and then you simply need to either have Shared fate in play or play it afterwards and you will be playing with your opponents deck or immediately mill them out on turn one or two. The everything is a 1/1 creature with no abilities uses either mycosynth latus or enchanted evening, then March of the machines or the enchantment that makes all Enchantments creatures, the last combo is the same regardless of what the previous cards are and that is humility. The infinite loop of infinite loops is using cards like conspiracy to turn all creatures into elfs or saprolings. You will then use one of the cards that makes all of your creatures elfs/saprolings into lands. Now you only need anything that produces creatures when a land enters play and the result is either an infinite loop or if you use scute swarm you have an infinite loop of infinite loops that is getting bigger with each passing cycle and if your opponent doesn't stop it before it gets to the third cycle it's impossible to stop without a field sweep that hits creatures and Enchantments. The way that it works technically is that at every step in the process in an attempt to stop it if you don't get both Enchantments and creatures in one shot it drops hundreds of creatures into play that are also lands. There is only one choice stop it at the start or the game ends. The next thing about the crazy amount of damage from one spell that you only spent 5 mana on x. You need to have played a stuffy doll or more targeting a player there is a new red creature that is nearly identical to stuffy doll you can use too. You then need to have a minimum of one pariah's shield equipped to your creature. Having some damage doubling effects in play will help you out too. You can start dropping permanents that double damage at 3 mana. You can also couple some kind of indestructible effect on tefiderm equipped with a pariah's shield and have stuffy doll with a pariah's shield too to make an infinite damage loop but I'm not talking about that yet. The way it works is you play earthquake or rolling earthquake and if you have just one doubling effect in play and you have stuffy doll with pariah's shield you will hit all players for 5 damage. That damage will be doubled to 10 the same thing for all of the creatures. Stuffy doll will take that 10 damage and shoot it right into your opponents face where it will double again to 20 damage. So now you have done 30 damage to one player. But what about that 10 damage that was meant for you. Well you have the equipment pariah's shield on your stuffy doll. You won't take any damage from the earthquake but it will still double to 10 then 20 then 40 when it finally gets to the opponent. If you were lucky enough to have two or three damage doubling effects in play you would repeat that process for each effect on the field. The tephaderm combo would with it and two pariah's shield on separate creatures or a bit better with a coal hauler swine. The result is nasty either way. Tephaderm basically reads like this (if a creature deals damage to tephaderm, tephaderm deals that much damage to that creature, if a player deals damage to tephaderm, tephaderm deals that much damage to that player.) Yes it would hit a Planeswalker. Coal hauler swine basically reads as follows ( when damage is dealt to coal hauler swine, coal hauler swine deals that much damage to each player). Now all it needs is pariah's shield and indestructible to make an infinite loop of damage. I will say this much however. Even without indestructible and no boost to toughness the max you will probably be able to redirect to your opponent through cycles of damage is about 8. You could also simply spend 1 red mana on your stuffy doll using blazing Salvo and choose to take the 5 damage which will hopefully be doubled and definitely be redirected to stuffy doll then into your opponents face with stuffy doll. The entire deck in the command zone involves manifest and mutate and a card that sends the mutated creature to the command zone somehow. The next thing is you can use a combination of foretell flashback and madness to basically be able to play all of your cards from your hand, graveyard, then exile, then your hand again. It has trouble working on anything that isn't an instant or sorceriy. If I missed one or more I apologize and I'll try to get you more information on those things asap.
In your Bolt example, you can tap mana and just have it before you cast a spell as well. It's not wrong. It's the way it used to work in Magic before 6th edition as well--you HAD to tap lands first (someone got DQed from a big event for not doing this after being repeatedly warned too). Tapping the mana first and then announcing the spell is fine in almost all cases. It's not going to matter unless you're trying to cast Tendrils of Agony at 1 life with a City of Brass and you need the tap trigger to go under the Storm copies so you can live. (I've done that in a tournament.) In fact, City of Brass is one of the few reasons this rule matters at all. Chromatic Sphere is another (note that Chromatic Star fixes this). When that card was designed but not released (as it came in Invasion, after 6th edition by about a year), you needed to activate it first, so there was no drawing a card while you were playing its mana ability originally. They try not to design cards like this anymore, Sevala being a big exception and bit of a mistake. If they printed her now, they'd probably make her ability only work when you can play an instant to avoid having to back up.
Even thematically, tortured existence seems like it's saying "we're gonna kill you, and keep bringing you back just to kill you again" completely unintuitive ruling imo
Here's mine. Doubling effects dont work with cards like volo that create token copies of creatures. Deathtouch trample still works the same on a creature with indestructible. Opponents choose the order of damage modifiers happen. Doublestrike doesn't attack twice if it kills blocker in first swing but will if it has trample. Magic is literal. Except all the times it isn't.
These seem to be very specific scenarios with outdated text… one thing I’ve always thought made no sense was assigning blockers and then sacrificing the blockers during combat and somehow still blocking the combat damage afterwards. 🤷♂️
Imagine you are a solider charging for the enemy commander when a enemy solider jump into your path. You slow down, you not going to run straight into their sword. You prepare to fight, when the solider take their sword and drive it through themselves. You watch their lifeless body fall to the ground. You wonder what could of drove that man to become such a zealot. You look finally look past him and see the commander has gone. You shrug and return to the camp. Your leader want to wear some kind of hat and you see no reason to leave them waiting. They called it a skull...something.
The game would be very broken if blocking worked differently. It would give the attacking player an unfair advantage, if they were holding removal. They could remove your blocker before the damage step, and easily sneak in lethal damage.
Doesnt each player get priority after the aplit second spell resolves? Could you just play and ability or effect after the split second but before the shock?
The manland would lose all abilities - including the ability to tap for mana - as a result of Sudden Spoiling. If you could tap it some other way, then yes you could get the +1+1 from Darksteel Garrison after Sudden Spoiling, but it can't tap on its own anymore.
@@curtin1107 Paul Bomba is more suggesting you counter the shock or pump the manland some other way after the Sudden Spoiling resolves, I think. Unnecessary in this case, but the video was accidentally implying that this wouldn't be possible, when in fact it is.
So, the target before cost rule was explained to me as a verification that there was in fact a valid target for the spell, which given that it was also stressed to me that, generally speaking, you can't target nothing, it seemed perfectly straightforward. Maybe that's specific to how I was taught the game, but I feel like most players will eventually ask "do I have to have a target?" and with that knowledge it seems like a very straightforward way to write the rules that in order to prove you have a valid target and thus can legally cast the spell you must first announce said target, and then you move on to whether you can pay for said spell. But maybe that's just me, your milage may vary. On the subject of Split Second interactions, I mean you're right that it clearly goes against the design intent of the mechanic as a sort of "last word" that cannot be responded to, but I'd also argue that Split Second is a terribly unfun mechanic for the same reason, interaction makes the game more interesting and I for one applaud the subversion of Split Second.
I this it's stupid (despite being the fun option) that a mutated creature counts as your commander regardless of where the commander card is in the pile. It should only work if it's on top in my opinion.
3:48 the transformation to 0/2 "precedes" the +1/+1 because of how the "modifications" happens? I mean its sequence, the sequence similar to the ones helping solve the Humility and Opalescence stuff?
When something says it makes a creature an X/Y it's referring to the creature's base power and toughness (unless it somehow specifies otherwise) meaning that any modifiers currently on it stay, be they +1/+1 counters, temporary buffs like Exalted, the Garrison effect, or otherwise. So it's a 2/2 with a temporary +1/+1 that becomes a 0/2 with a temporary +1/+1
oh so A weird thing came up in one of my games where my opponent controlled a Keiga, The Tide Star. A creature which says "When Keiga, the Tide Star is put into a graveyard from play, gain control of target creature" and I had cast Necromantic Selection, which states "Destroy all creatures then return a creature destroyed this way onto the battlefield under your control..." making it a black zombie as well. I had targeted Keiga as it was the best option but, we couldn't exactly figure out who would have control of Keiga at that point, since they said they would use keigas on death trigger to take control of.... keiga...
Question question new rith dragon cause over damage to a creature to give you a dragon at end step, if i attacked with a creature that has 4/4 and the guy double blocks and loses two creatures but takes no damage to life, do i create a dragon ?
If the creatures blocking it had 4 total toughness, you wouldn’t get a dragon. If they had less than 4 total toughness, you would. However, even if they have 4 or more total toughness, if one of them has less than 4 toughness, you can still choose to assign more damage to that creature than it has toughness, and you would get a dragon.
Board: Goblin warchief : goblins cost 1 less to play Skirk prospector: sac a goblin,: produce 1 red 2 mountains hand: Krenko ({2} and R R : 4 mana) play: I declare intent to play Krenko I figure out his cost ({2}RR - 1 (from warchief) = {1}RR): 3 mana I pay costs Tap 2 Mountains to produce RR I sac 1 goblin (Warchief) to produce 1 R : Warchief goes to the graveyard I have RRR, which is enough to cast Krenko Krenko goes on the stack He resolves Board: Skirk prospector: sac a goblin,: produce 1 red Krenko 2 tapped mountains
I'm sure I heard that in a tournament, a guy took an warning because he "added" his mana AFTER casting the spell, so, this is the reason why I think we have to "add" mana already BEFORE casting the spell. You seems to say the opposite, which make me confuse.
The rules *used* to be that you needed to add mana before casting, which is what that tournament video was about. The rules have changed since then and you can now add mana during the process of casting a spell.
the stupidest one IMO, is Panglacial Wurm and Selvala. you search your library for any card, then while searching declare to cast panglacial wurm and pay for it using selvala. then as selvala resolves it produces some amount of {G} mana not greater than the amount of players. if the amount of mana you have available then is less than 7, it makes panglacial wurm illegal to cast, so you must return it to your library.then, finally, you can finish tutoring your card. wild Panglacial Wurm {5}{G}{G} Creature - Wurm Trample While you're searching your library, you may cast Panglacial Wurm from your library. 9/5 Selvala, Explorer Returned {1}{G}{W} Legendary Creature - Elf Scout Parley - {T}: Each player reveals the top card of their library. For each nonland card revealed this way, add {G} and you gain 1 life. Then each player draws a card. 2/4
Speaking of things that don’t use the stack, that’s why I’ve always loved Lands (my fave card type.) An “uncounterable” creature? (Dryad Arbor.) Lotta fun stuff Lands can do and not be stopped. 😈👌🏼
Merfolk trickster and Dryad of the elysian grove is the stupidest thing ever, even if you negate the effect all lands are still every basic land type .
The one I think is dumbest is trample and damage doublers, the assigned trample damage gets doubled, so if you have 5/5 block a 10/10 with trample and double damage the amount of trample damage to player is 10. Intuitively you'd think 15 dmg would go through, but nah, doubles the assigned damage.
Wouldn't having morph (or unmorph) being a activated ability instead or a special action cause way more rule confusion than it would fix? I think it's just a problem inherent to having the cost to turn a face down creature face up on the face down side of a card. There are just a lot of rules logic and game flow problems if it doesn't turn over immediately. It could *technically* work, but you'd have to seperate revealing and turning the card face up into seperate steps and just from a physical game play space that seems needlessly confusing. Imagine having to explain to a new player that to unmorph you turn the card face up to show the cost, but the card doesn't actually turn face up yet even though it physically turned face up, because you get a chance to respond to the ability even though you had to do what the ability physically wants you to to pay for the game mechanics part of the ability. Gross.
The biggest problem would be that your morph would be opened up to almost any removal. A shock could destroy any of them in response to the morph ability being put on the stack and that's just too much a feels bad
My vote for the stupidest is Kess with adventure spells. The rules plainly state that cards with Adventure are not instants and sorceries anywhere but the stack. Therefore, Kess should not be able to see those cards in your graveyard because she says "instant or sorcery card" and cards with adventure are permanents (usually creatures, but some enchantments). So what you do is just say "I'm putting this card from my graveyard on the stack." If you can't do that, you've performed an illegal action and the game unwinds. But Kess now says "Oh, that came from the graveyard. And now it's on the stack. It's an instant or sorcery too! So cast it then!" In other words, casting Adventures with Kess works because you take an illegal action that becomes legal after you do it because of Kess. (Lier works similarly.)
It was never an illegal action in the first place, the rules explicitly state that you take into consideration the alternative set of characteristics before determining legality. 601.3e Some rules and effects state that an alternative set of characteristics or a subset of characteristics are considered to determine if a card or copy of a card is legal to cast. These alternative characteristics replace the object’s characteristics for this determination. Continuous effects that would apply to that object once it has those characteristics are also considered.
6:35 funny thing is that this is not a problem in yugioh for its complicated card text, because targets are written in the cost part of the effects and not in the effect part of the effects.
that in fact is why most YGO text appears complicated; it spells out the mechanics much more thoroughly. Most YGO cards would have text comparable to magic cards if they utilized as much shortcutting, such as with keywords. This is mostly a consequence of the game being written in Japanese first, then transcribed into English.
@@ToxicAtom I'd say it's more a consequence of not having a strict rules structure. Magic essentially has a lawbook (comprehensive rules) that has an answer for everything, while Yu-Gi-Oh has some rules for card types and spell speeds, and leaves most of everything else to what is written on cards and how the judges decide to rule things. Rulings can even differ between OCG and TCG, not because of the language barrier, but because of how those effects were argued to interact.
Hinata and volcanic offering is another good example of targetting first and paying costs second. You can attempt to cast volcanic visions, and be able or unable to pay the mana cost depending on what your opponent chooses
Okay, hear me out. The decision to make everything "spells" is one of the worst for new players in the game. It's wildly more intuitive for permanents and spells to be separate categories. And as a result we've had 30 years of repeating the text "Instant or Sorcery" on everything which imo is just really stupid.
That tortured existence ability thing really is just stupid. It doesn't actually make sense either. You can't make a target before paying a cost. It's like going to the store, you can't buy something without paying for it.
Actually you gave yourself the answer. You go to the store, target the item you wanna purchase and pay the value. You don't go to to the upfront, give money to the cashier and then start picking things
as a yu-gi-oh player that cost thing is weird, I'm pretty sure cost is always played first, even if an effect is negated (or countered) you still pay the discard cost
That rule doesn't change whether the cost gets paid. Neither player gets a chance to respond until the target has been chosen and the cost has been paid. Are targets not chosen until resolution in Yugioh? Because in Magic, they're chosen on cast/activation.
@@peterbraunschweig2779 Yu-Gi-Oh has problem solving card text that separates what happens before the interaction point for another card and after with a semicolon. A modern wording would be something like "Discard 1 card, then target up to 2 Spells/Traps on the field; destroy them." There are some funky cards that don't target at activation or have some other quirks, like Trishula banishing a chosen set of cards without targeting. There is also Machina Fortress, which you can discard to pay for its own cost which is really funny.
If you're attacking with that land, doesn't that already tap it ? So how are you tapping it for mana? And if you tap it for mana, how are you still attacking with it ?
Wouldn't sudden spoiling not remove the indestructible? The indestructible is being granted by the darksteel garrison. The indestructible was never part of what the base creature it was turned into.... And the garrison itself isn't a creature effected by sudden spoiling and it isn't losing the land card type so the fortification isn't falling off. So similar to the +1 from the trigger (or a counter) changing the base creature wouldn't make it vulnerable to the shock
From my understanding, due to layers, it actually depends which card was played first, much like how Humility rulings work. From what I know both effects apply in the same layer, layer 6b, So I believe that because Garrison, and it's effect, were active first, the Sudden Spoiling does in fact remove it.
i agree with it being counter intuitive but i feel like there are alot of mechanics that do that on a variety of cards. half of our games of commander are spent debating rules and how things are effected most of the time
The stupidest rules interaction of all time, IMO, is Wall of Boom. It was short lived and hilarious. Tl;Dr for a period of time in order to make Time Vault work there was a period "between" turns, you could activate Wall of Roots an arbitrarily large number of times, and then win with a Magma Mine.
Fun fact: removing your pants counts as a special action due to Un-rules rulings.
Magic is a *very* complex card game.
In Un-fromats you can choose a color that can be a color of someone's eyes, as one card, the Avatar of Me, is the color of its controllers eyes.
Hell yeah Brown my favorite color@@admiralcasperr
The funniest part of watching this, as an L2, is I just nodded along thinking, "Yes this is how it works, he explained it all very well."
I was listening to this and going, “Am I even more of a nerd than I thought I was? This isn’t even that weird, yeah? I’m not alone, am I?!”
Yeah I saw nothing wrong with these.
@@deathkitty23 as someone fairly new to the game some of these are totally counter intuitive, like the paying costs 2nd part, and iv even had to explain the morp thing to other people who have been playing longer then I have.
@@atk9989I've been playing for way too long, since 97
@@atk9989 I always wondered why I see some people pay the cost second, no one ever told me.
Tapping the land first in the lightning bolt example isn't necessarily wrong, you're just not mentioning the red mana created sitting in your mana pool and then being used to pay for the spell in the stack.
Yeah, but in the case of tortured existence, you can’t pre-sacrifice the creature.
@@NStripleseven Exactly, it's less to do with the mana part of the cost as it is the sacrifice part of the cost. You can of course tap for mana whenever you want, so it's absolutely fine to tap mana before playing a card that only has mana in the cost. It's even fine to tap mana first for Tortured Existence, but you do need to be mindful of the further cost of the sacrifice and when that is paid. Again, this only really matters if your intention was to bring back the sacrificed creature, since you can't.
An example here would be if you had one creature in the graveyard, one creature on the battlefield, and ten swamps. You could tap all ten swamps, then sacrifice the creature on the battlefield, target the creature in the graveyard to bring it back, and repeat this ten times. Assuming of course your opponent doesn't respond to any of the ten separate activations at any point.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm actually wrong here.
EDIT: just realised you can't do this because it goes to your hand not the battlefield, but you get the idea of what I'm saying.
@@du1987de suppose you have 2 ornithopters
@@NStripleseven Or any other means of getting the cards from your hand back to the field. Then yes, it would work.
Isn't it technically:
1. tap lands to generate mana
2. declare targets while mana is still in mana pool
3. pay the cost
4. resolve the effect
You didn’t even mention the stupidest part of the rules for casting a spell. Even before choosing targets, the very first thing you do is move the card to the stack. Which gets messy if there’s continuous effects which care about your number of cards in hand. You can’t cast Dimir Charm “destroy target creature with power 2 or less” on an Enemy of Enlightenment “5/5 gets -1/-1 for each card in your opponent’s hands” if you’ve only got three cards in hand. It’s sitting over there as a 2/2 but if you try and target the thing it’ll be a 3/3 before you get the chance.
One interaction I learned about recently is that Alpine Moon naming Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth won't keep it from turning other lands into swamps. I know the layers-reason but it's extremely unintuitive.
One Interesting interaction is that if there’s a rule of law on the field and you cast a spell, you can’t afterwards suspend a card for its suspend cost.
Suspend is an special action (not casting a spell) but to be able to suspend a card the rules reminder says “ Rather than cast this card…you suspend”, but you can’t cast the card so you can’t suspend the card.
I never knew this was a thing, but that is a pretty crappy rule. Since you cast the card with Suspend once all of its time counters are depleted, this means a Suspend card actually eats up your one spell for the turn (under Rule of Law) on TWO separate turns. Doesn't sit right with me.
@@DrizzyDefenseForce as long as you order it correctly to suspend your cards before your one spell per turn, you will be able to do both.
I knew about the payment before targeting because of my Hinata deck, since I need to know how many targets Hinata has before paying any costs.
I just think of it as part of the cost. It can’t go on the stack without a target.
@@WMDistraction That's a useful mental model, and practically speaking I like to think about it as everything involved in casting a spell happening simultaneously, but sometimes you do need to break it down. In actuality, you put the spell on the stack _first,_ then choose it targets, then check whether the targets are legal, then finalise the spell's cost before paying for it.
One of the (imo) most interesting rules interactions are Sylvan Library plus Brainstorm (or other instant-speed draw spells).
This interaction happens when you draw cards on your upkeep with a Sylvan Library in play.
Say you cast Brainstorm, draw 3 cards, then put 2 cards back on top of your library.
Then you go to your draw step. Sylvan Library triggers, and you draw 3 cards.
Now you choose 2 cards that you drew this turn, and either pay 4 life to keep them, or put them back on top.
However, since you drew cards with a Brainstorm earlier, the cards you put back can theoretically be cards drawn with this, and not just be the usual Sylvan Library cards you keep separately while choosing which to keep. This leads to own of the few instances where you need to call a judge to watch your hand while you draw with Brainstorm and put back cards with Library, to check that you only put back legal cards. Your opponent can't do this, without giving them extra information that they aren't supposed to have.
or you just keep the cards from brainstorm in a separate pile if you have a sylvan library
@@reisiramv That not only gives extra information to your opponent if you do it properly, it can also be used to cheat if done improperly.
Let's say you have 3 cards in hand, 2 cards plus Brainstorm. If you Brainstorm, you draw 3 and put 2 cards from your hand back on top. Your hand can now contain either contain 3 new cards, 2 new cards and 1 old card, or 1 new card and 2 old cards, but your opponent doesn't know which.
If you put the cards you drew from Brainstorm in a separate pile, your opponent will know whether you kept your old cards they've been playing around, or if you got new cards they need to figure out how to play around. If they ever add those cards to their hand before making that pile, they could cheat and say some of the old cards were drawn by Brainstorm.
To prevent this information problem, and to prevent potential cheating (accidental or purposeful), a judge must be present to verify that the choices you are making with Sylvan Library are legal.
@@reisiramv Judge, or 3rd party for casual.
I'm choosing to never include these cards in one deck
Let’s make it really fun - crack a fetch in between the brainstorm and resolving the Sylvan Library. Would you need to have Force of Will copy #1 that just got shuffled in marked in some way to track if it randomly shuffled its way back to the top and gets drawn with the Library? Versus the other three FoW’s somewhere in your deck?
The one that always tripped up my opponents was that spells that target anything that have no targets left when they resolved are countered automatically. Happened to me in a draft. Someone cast Electrolyze on my creature, who I then sac'd to pay for something else. He then tried to draw his card and when I said he couldn't since Electrolyze was countered due to lack of a legal target, an argument ensued.
This is pretty brutal when playing cards like Stomping Giant and Virtue of Persistent, since if the adventure doesn't resolve it goes to the graveyard and the permanent card can't be played later.
My favorite thing is how abilities can trigger and not go on the stack yet. I learned of this in my Hidetsugu and Kairi commander deck which runs a bunch of clone cards. Hidetusugu and Kairi has an etb and death trigger, and is a legendary creature. So if I go to clone it without something that removes the legend rule, the clone will enter and the etb will trigger, and before it's even put on the stack, state based actions are checked, so it dies to the legend rule which trigger the death trigger also before the etb is put on the stack. The etb and death triggers then go on the stack at the same time, allowing me to put the death trigger on first, so it resolves last
Yup, that's one of the scenarios where knowing the rules well can help you play better. I'm sure lots of people think it has to on the stack in the order it triggered.
@@StormyWaters2021 Precisely what happened the second time I played the deck. Shocking how many people don't actually understand state based actions
Morph has to be a special action, anyone who says it shouldn't be hasn't thought about it, morph is supposed to be about mystery and what the creature could be, and if in response to paying a morph cost you could just shock the morph, well it would make it way to weak of a mechanic and not do anything
That’s as stupid as me saying instants shouldn’t be able to be responded to because that would mean they aren’t “instantaneous”
Morph is a special action because wotc decided it is, nothing really else to say about it. It could function as a regular activated ability if they had made it that way instead.
@@wizardsmix7961 but then what would be the point of having a morph creature at all, it would just be weaker then a normal creature with an etb that does the exact same thing, morphs are a special action to stop people from shocking a morph after you have paid the mana to morph it in order to stop the on flip effect, imagine if a kill spell could stop an etb trigger essentially
@@loosemoose5217 First of all, no, activated abilities and ETB’s have entirely different uses. Secondly, the point of morph is to be a surprise, you don’t know if your opponent is hiding a beefy creature or a counterspell on a stick.
To say morphs would be useless because removal exists is stupid. This is the classic “dies to doom blade” argument that “died” ages ago.
@@wizardsmix7961 but there would be no suprise, you could tell from the mana they are spending what the creature will roughly be and then shock the morph and remove it, it would make morph incredibly weak, and again as I said, making a kill spell stop essentially an etb is dumb, morph is already a rather weak mechanic, if it used the stack it would be all but uselss, do you think WOTC made morph not use the stack cause they just randomly decided or do you think they playtested it using the stack and realized it didn't really work
@@wizardsmix7961 also I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying, the "on flip" effect is essentially an ETB, yes its different but its also very similar, now imagine a creature where if you used a kill spell it also stopped the ETB, that creature would now be considerably weaker
Haven't seen anyone else mention it, so I will. At 4:49 you say you can flip a morph creature any time you could use a mana ability, but you can't. You need priority for this just like normal abilities, it just doesn't use the stack. You can NOT flip morphs while you are putting a spell on the stack like mana abilities.
@Diego Sampaio The difference is that you can activate mana abilities during the process of casting a spell.
@Diego Sampaio 601.2g if you feel like looking it up
@Diego Sampaio 601.2g: If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, "Mana Abilities"). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.
601.2 describes the steps to casting a spell, this step comes after making choices like modes and optional costs. Why do you even come back with "trust me bro" after getting a rule number quoted
@Diego Sampaio yes and because you've been playing for so long is why you make this mistake. This rule was added because technically saying what you're casting before tapping mana used to be cheating. Which was annoying as shit because in casual play people did it in whatever order. So they changed the rules.
@Diego Sampaio You're not making much of an argument at this point. Tell me why my interpretation of 601.2g is wrong, show me a conflicting rule, or show me a judge that can do either of those things or just accept that the game isn't the same as it was when you still knew everything.
5:23 - there is no need to cry when the opponent has a counterspell. After Willbender's ability resolves, they can let the Sudden Spoiling resolve and then counter the Shock.
That's why the correct play is to Shock, wait to see if opponent counters, and let it resolve before casting the Sudden Spoiling. Although, in the scenario described, it's a game-ending play, so you just have to do it and hope, but if it's not ending the game, you cast your very innocent-looking Shock on the indestructible creature, wait to see what happens, and if Shock is countered, you don't waste your Sudden Spoiling, and if it's not countered, you Spoil for the kill.
REALLY, the correct play is after the Verdant Touch resolves, you Sudden Spoiling so the Cathedral is now a 0/2 and doesn't have exalted, so at best, the Darksteel Garrison trigger could make it a 1/3, which you can survive.
you are confused about who has a counterspell in hand
@@DyrianLightbringer spoil still dont kill
@@cultoftyler9045 well, it's been 9 months since I watched the video, but just going off of what I wrote, if you Shock for 2 damage, and it resolves, and then Sudden Spoiling, a 0/2 creature has 2 damage marked on it, so it dies. In this case, Sudden Spoiling would result in a kill. So, you Shock first, if you're worried about a counter spell, then Sudden Spoil if the Shock wasn't countered, and the result is a dead creature.
@@DyrianLightbringer in response, i tap the land giving it +1/+1 from the trigger
Any of the legendaries with the grandeur ability, chromatic sphere, word of wind and suppression field.
Grandeur --- Discard a card with the same named "this creature": do things.
You give an extra 2 mana cost increased to this with suppression field.
You activate grandeur, it goes to the stack waiting to be paid for.
Since you can pay multiple type of cost in the order you want, you pay the mana firdt with chromatic spheren who let you draw a card without using the stack.
You replace the draw with word of wind by a bounce effect.
You bounce the creature with grandeur to your hand.
You finish paying the grandeur activation by discarting the card that was it's source in the first place.
One well-known interaction I find "morally wrong" even though it's technically correct is the interaction between Blood Moon and Urza's Saga. "Morally" speaking, Urza's Saga should just turn into a basic mountain, but because of complex rules interaction, it actually gets discarded. I think this is a case where, because of how precisely delineated and layered the rules are, the correct application of the rules has a pathological result that would ideally not happen if the rules themselves were designed optimally.
Magic is too complex for all interactions to have intuitive results.
The reason is that Blood Moon doesn't change the card types of nonbasic lands, or the subtypes that aren't land types. So Urza's Saga under a Blood Moon is still a Saga enchantment, and since it lost all its chapter abilities, it goes to the graveyard as a state-based action. The most intuitive rules change would be to make Blood Moon (and all the other old cards that make lands into specific basic lands) take away all other card types and subtypes. However, this would also have unintuitive consequences, because dropping a Blood Moon would then de-animate any animated lands.
My LEAST favorite rules interaction is when you have a damage multiplier and a damage additive like say +2 to damage and a damage doubler, it isn’t YOU who gets to pick how the math stacks - it’s whoever or whoever is controlling what is being affected gets to choose how it stacks.
It is a WILD bummer.
What, really?
@@freddiesimmons1394 It's as per rule 616.1.
'If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).'
In the case of dealing damage, the creature, player or planeswalker receiving that damage is considered the 'affected object', which means that the targeted player, or the controller of the targeted creature or planeswalker, chooses in which order the replacement effects are applied to damage. Counterintuitive, but still within the realm of comprehension.
An actually insane example would be casting Volcanic Fallout with a Furnace of Rath, Hostility and Hallow in play.
@@Felixr2 thanks a lot
I think all of these rulings should be as is. The only really stupid interactions I can think of in magic is the entirety of the order of operations that continuous effects happen in.
The problem is that any other order would break more than it fixes.
I like how split second works as is. It rewards playing niche cards like willbender and other triggered abilities.
Accidentally;
I learned that second rules interaction with my favorite commander: Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. If you have Grenzo on the field with an Ashnod's Altar, you can actually sacrifice Grenzo to pay for his own ability. This is because you first declare the ability's activation, and then move to paying costs, which is done with mana abilities, such as Ashnod's Altar's ability. As a result, you can declare you'll be using Grenzo's ability and then sacrifice Grenzo as part of the mana ability used to pay for it. Wild stuff.
So this isn't a stupid interaction per se, but it is an interesting one, One of my personal favorites in fact.
Caged Sun (Green)
Ashaya, Soul of the Wild
Karn, the Great Creator's + ability to animate Caged Sun
Caged Sun is now an artifact creature land - Forest
Tap Caged Sun for a green, since green is your chosen color and caged sun is a land, it sees itself producing a green mana, thus its last ability triggers, producing an additional green mana > It sees itself producing a green mana and makes another green mana > Repeat
Another Interaction involving land interactions:
Song of the Dryads/Imprisoned in the Moon enchanting any of its legal targets > Play Vesuva copying whatever permanent was enchanted. Due to Enchanted permanent now being a land through an outside source, Vesuva can now become a full 1:1 Copy of whatever said permanent was.
While I think your Caged Sun example is correct (Caged Sun is worded VERY strangely), doesn't it end the game in a draw? You can't stop adding mana, so I think it qualifies as an unstoppable infinite loop that doesn't otherwise end the game.
"When you do": "I'm gonna make things even more confusing"
I think my dumbest rules interaction is Selvala and panglacial Wurm, basically you can cheat trying to cast panglacial Wurm with sevala during a mid liberary search. Which is weird, in fact, I can't think of another card that interrupts you in the middle of resolving an ability like this.
But it gets worse, the cheating comes from you can use panglacial wurm to create an opportunity to use sevala's mana ability during a instance where you know all the information in your library (seeing as you can see the top card).
But wait! there's more! It's possible for you to *fail* to cast the wurm if you brick on the sevala mana enough. So now you've done an illegal game action, using information you shouldn't have had access to and drawn a card you shouldn't have been able to draw.
It's cheating, somehow you have created a scenario where you cheated.
What about cheating an aura on to the battlefield and attaching it to a hexproof creature because you don’t use the stack for auras you cheat in?
I remember a strange ruling where you could still cast a squee exiled by Ixalan's binding but not from your hand.
That's been patched; the check for legality now happens before you move the card to the stack.
My absolute favorite head scratcher of an interaction is thieves' auction and confusion in the ranks. On the surface it's like "ok, delayed triggers solve this" but when you look closer it's a rabbit hole of what goes on the stack and when
That last ruling also allows (what I believe is) the only "sac outlet for no effect" card, Phyrexian Plaguelord.
My favorite one is about "Whenever XXX is tapped for mana" ability like Kinnan, that doesn't work with mana ability like Urza's High Lord artificer.
Interacting with other players split second spells with mana abilities, triggered abilities, and special actions is one of the most satisfying feelings as a Magic player. Can also be the most frustrating feeling when your opponent goes full denial mode and insists that split second is the same as being uncounterable.
A combo I used to play in commander was metallic mimic + murderous redcap + skirk prospector. You can put a split second spell on the stack such as extirpate and then win the game with skirk prospectors mana abilities and murderous redcaps triggered abilities. This lets you win using a graveyard loop with things like tormods crypt or other activated gy hate on the field and your opponents can't use them to respond.
Funny enough I built my Karen’s morph deck with these interactions in mind. Opponent plays a board wipe that only destroys opponents stuff, I play a split second card then use a morph ability to steal and play the board whip in response while nobody can react. Fun times.
Willbender is awesome and I don't think any of these interactions with sudden spoiling or split second in general are stupid
Very cool card design, foretell on a body lol
@@arsenalfanrichi your statement would make sense if foretell wasn't also printed on creatures
The Tortured Existence example is similar to cards that have "as additional cost to cast this card, sacrifice a creature". Have to sacrifice a creature and pay its mana cost before the card goes on the stack.
Playing something and then paying is like constantly taking out $10 loans to get lunch
Can someone tell me the dumb part of the land equipment section?
This comment is a year old, but I might as well respond: the land equipment is not the dumb part. The dumb part is tapping a land for mana to get its triggered ability to work in response to a spell with split second.
The reason morph is a special action is because if it uses the stack it’s dumb. Imagine having a face down 2/2, putting morph on the stack (but you gotta show the card so we know the morph cost. Now the opponent can see what it’s gonna be and shock it while it’s still a 2/2 instead of the 4/4 it will become
We had a combo breaker once that could only be defeated by paying your mana costs before casting the spell.
I sort of appreciate how the rules work with the sudden spoiling example, because it demonstrates that (in theory) all effects have a weakness.
I had a player try and krosan grip my ashnods altar, so I just sacked my board to it and killed him with a blood artist type effect. He was upset to say the least
@@Sky-dy4vn that's not very nice. Well done
@@Sky-dy4vn with the upside that the Krosan never goes off and you keep your altar.
@@tylerowens yup. Made him extra salty and sealed the other players fate
Wait, what part of that first interaction do you think is stupid??? All of the cards are doing what they say they do...
my favorite rule is "101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can’t
happen, the “can’t” effect takes precedence."
As someone who has only played Magic once, this video is just mind boggling to me. I'm not sure why UA-cam recommended it
I hate the rules interaction with merfolk trickster, and Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
The most stupid rules interaction in magic: Storm Crow
[Ab]using Mana Abilities to respond to Split Second was actually a common strategy in Legacy Lands (namely revolving around Krosam Verge, Grove of the Burnwillows, and Punishing Fire.)
I've always found it counterintuitive that creatures whose toughnesses rely on the number of cards you have in your hand don't die when a wheel effect is used, since state-based actions are never checked in the middle of spell resolution (unless it involves Panglacial Wurm being cast while searching the library as well and even then I'm not sure if any cards even exist that have both a search and a wheel in the same resolution or simultaneous). I know why the rules work as they do in this manner, it's just counterintuitive to me that something whose toughness relies on your cards in hand won't die when you discard your hand and the game will only check to see once the toughness is once the spell resolves.
For things like Persecute and Cabal Therapy. It is detrimental for you to "name a card/color" before they respond since if it is a whiff then they can decide not to counter it. Correct way to play these is to say "I cast Persecute, do you counter?" and then choose after the resolution. Apparently this is not true for "target" spells like bolt in which you DO need to choose a target at declaration of the spell. However what you can do, is to say "I target you with a Bolt" and then after it resolves, redirect the damage to a Planeswalker.
One of my favs is words of war or any others of the word cycle + chromatic sphere, making an uninteractible shock or something like that at the speed of mana (provided you already activated the words)
Oddly enough, you had to tap lands for mana before playing a spell back in them olden times.
It all makes sense to me. Morph being unaffected by Split Second is pretty dumb though I agree. It do be like that though.
It has to be that way though, morph has to be a special action. If it wasn't morph would basically not work as it's intended, if it used the stack, in response to a morph creature being flipped you could just shock it, and you would also know what they are morphing into in a way, cause you could tell what mana they had to tap, so if someone pays 5 mana and activates a morph creature, you would just shock it while it's still a 2/2
Im still mad 6 years later that shroud and hexproof doesnt save my stuff from destroy/exile "each" or "all" of things on the board
Split second: they fucking brought back interrupts lol
You pay the cost of a spell after choosing its targets. That doesnt mean you have to Tap your mountain after choosing targets. You can Tap for mana at any point during that step/phase.
Some more mana ability weirdness for y'all:
Firstly, Pristine Talisman has a mana ability that gains you 1 life, so you can dodge out of a Sudden Shock to the face at 2. Not too fancy, but probably the most simple example of the type of weirdness that can occur.
Meanwhile, Priest of Forgotten Gods does not have a mana ability despite how it may seem, because the ability targets. Well, it *could* target, so even if you decide not to target anything it's still not a mana ability, so no shenanigans there.
Story I've heard is someone winning with exquisite blood/sanguine bond using an opponents krosan grip as protection due to split second not stopping mana abilities, aka pristine talisman.
Have you ever had a Confusion in the Ranks, Grip of Chaos and a Possibility Storm on the field?
An interesting fact is that every card with Darksteel in its name is indestructible, except for Darksteel Garrison and Darksteel Mutation. Its a strange inconsistency with the theme.
Not really. They both give whatever they're attached to indestructible. For most Darksteel stuff they're made of Darksteel, for those two it's turning whatever it's attached to into darksteel.
all of regeneration and sacrifice.
I’m wondering if the new Soul of Windgrace’s discard a land: draw a card, can be used to discard dakmoor salvage and dredge it back to hand immediately. I suspect it doesn’t work, but not entirely sure why.
I love that morph gets around split second, there’s an exception for everything in magic.
That actually totally works. You announce your intention to use the ability, which puts the draw a card activation on the stack and pay the costs. When you go to resolve the activation, dakmor salvage will be in your graveyard since the it was discarded before you resolve the ability, so you can totally dredge it back. Hope this helps :)
@@capn206 To add onto this, Dredge is a replacement effect, and would work even if the discard wasn't a cost, as long as the discard happens before the draw. Thrilling Discovery has you discard two before drawing three, so you could discard two Dredge cards, and then replace two of those draws with those same Dredge cards.
Minor correction on the mana ability comparison you used for Morph:
You compared to to mana abilities. While it is a special action and it does not require the stack (and can’t be responded to, much like mana abilities), mana abilities can be activated at some times that Morph cannot. Mainly that is while casting a spell or paying other costs. You can’t go to cast a spell, and then decide you want to morph during the payment process (which depending on what mana abilities you can activate, sometimes could allow you to cast the infamous Panglacial Wurm).
Also as others have pointed out for tap before cast vs cast then tap, both are valid. You’re just floating the red for a brief moment before spending it on the spell.
That said, yes you must first declare targets and all of that before paying the costs.
Oh god, Panglacial Wurm…
I saw a rules interaction recently with it, Archmage Ascension and Chromatic Orb. Orb is a mana ability, so you can draw a card while casting a spell. Ascension replaces that with a search, so you can cast Panglacial Wurm while casting another spell. This card was such a mistake.
What would happen if you declared that you are casting a spell and then when it came time to pay the cost you did not have the mana? Would the spell even be played? Or would it stay in your hand? Also, when you attempt to cast a spell and it goes on the stack, is that spell no longer in your hand? Or can you respond to some kind of counter spell by discarding it? Not sure why you would want to though...
You are not allowed to try casting a spell unless you can pay for it. However, if you have a mana ability that makes an indeterminate amount of mana (Selvala, Explorer Returned), you can try to cast the spell as long as you could possibly pay for it. If you don’t have enough mana in the end, you undo everything since you cast the spell, except for Selvala’s ability.
Spells are no longer in your hand as soon as you start casting them. However, your opponents can’t do anything while you’re casting a spell, and you can do very little, so this doesn’t matter very much.
Just so you know about these strange interactions it's possible for a player to place their entire deck into their commander zone. It's also possible for you to make your opponents attack themselves through some strange interactions. It's also a to completely lock down all permanents as 1/1 creatures with no abilities and for your opponent(s) to be completely unable to take any actions unless they have a very specific set of cards in their hands once the combo is in place. It's also possible to produce an infinite loop of infinite loops that causes so many triggers that you will crash the server for arena/MTGO/cockatrice, ect... that last combo is particularly nasty because once it starts it is self fueling and even a field sweep won't stop it unless you are able to blast all creatures and all land and all Enchantments at the same time and even if you do the combo will still continue dropping creatures after you get the field sweep off they'll just be an infinite army of 1/1 creatures. Something else is that it's very possible for you to place your entire deck in exile and get it all back within a few turns. You can also play a combo on turn two or so that results in you having a couple 10/10 creatures with trample while your opponent will never draw any more cards and you will be playing your opponent's deck. Your also able to tap your opponent's lands for mana and the last strange interaction I can think of is creating a senerio where your opponent(s) have only one choice conceded to you or the game will never end. That last one basically setup a senerio where all players have a platinum angel and no hand, deck or other permanents The senerio is a draw sorta. There is also a particularly mean combo that allows you to spend five or six mana on a single spell and hit for around 200 damage plus as early as turn 3. Granted that requires some special preparation and a bit of luck but once it's in place you'll play one spell and everyone except you will be hit for a minimum of 60 and you will be sitting there with a big grin and saying that was a lot of damage.
Do you have a link that outlines any of these shenanigans?
@@brycenelsonnelson1487 I'll do my best to give you the cards involved in most of the combos. The ability to make the opponents attack themselves works with a single card that makes the opponent's creatures deal combat damage to their controller instead of whomever they are actually attacking. The exiling of your entire deck or your opponents deck is done with leveler's enter the battlefield ability and then you simply need to either have Shared fate in play or play it afterwards and you will be playing with your opponents deck or immediately mill them out on turn one or two. The everything is a 1/1 creature with no abilities uses either mycosynth latus or enchanted evening, then March of the machines or the enchantment that makes all Enchantments creatures, the last combo is the same regardless of what the previous cards are and that is humility. The infinite loop of infinite loops is using cards like conspiracy to turn all creatures into elfs or saprolings. You will then use one of the cards that makes all of your creatures elfs/saprolings into lands. Now you only need anything that produces creatures when a land enters play and the result is either an infinite loop or if you use scute swarm you have an infinite loop of infinite loops that is getting bigger with each passing cycle and if your opponent doesn't stop it before it gets to the third cycle it's impossible to stop without a field sweep that hits creatures and Enchantments. The way that it works technically is that at every step in the process in an attempt to stop it if you don't get both Enchantments and creatures in one shot it drops hundreds of creatures into play that are also lands. There is only one choice stop it at the start or the game ends. The next thing about the crazy amount of damage from one spell that you only spent 5 mana on x. You need to have played a stuffy doll or more targeting a player there is a new red creature that is nearly identical to stuffy doll you can use too. You then need to have a minimum of one pariah's shield equipped to your creature. Having some damage doubling effects in play will help you out too. You can start dropping permanents that double damage at 3 mana. You can also couple some kind of indestructible effect on tefiderm equipped with a pariah's shield and have stuffy doll with a pariah's shield too to make an infinite damage loop but I'm not talking about that yet. The way it works is you play earthquake or rolling earthquake and if you have just one doubling effect in play and you have stuffy doll with pariah's shield you will hit all players for 5 damage. That damage will be doubled to 10 the same thing for all of the creatures. Stuffy doll will take that 10 damage and shoot it right into your opponents face where it will double again to 20 damage. So now you have done 30 damage to one player. But what about that 10 damage that was meant for you. Well you have the equipment pariah's shield on your stuffy doll. You won't take any damage from the earthquake but it will still double to 10 then 20 then 40 when it finally gets to the opponent. If you were lucky enough to have two or three damage doubling effects in play you would repeat that process for each effect on the field. The tephaderm combo would with it and two pariah's shield on separate creatures or a bit better with a coal hauler swine. The result is nasty either way. Tephaderm basically reads like this (if a creature deals damage to tephaderm, tephaderm deals that much damage to that creature, if a player deals damage to tephaderm, tephaderm deals that much damage to that player.) Yes it would hit a Planeswalker. Coal hauler swine basically reads as follows ( when damage is dealt to coal hauler swine, coal hauler swine deals that much damage to each player). Now all it needs is pariah's shield and indestructible to make an infinite loop of damage. I will say this much however. Even without indestructible and no boost to toughness the max you will probably be able to redirect to your opponent through cycles of damage is about 8. You could also simply spend 1 red mana on your stuffy doll using blazing Salvo and choose to take the 5 damage which will hopefully be doubled and definitely be redirected to stuffy doll then into your opponents face with stuffy doll. The entire deck in the command zone involves manifest and mutate and a card that sends the mutated creature to the command zone somehow. The next thing is you can use a combination of foretell flashback and madness to basically be able to play all of your cards from your hand, graveyard, then exile, then your hand again. It has trouble working on anything that isn't an instant or sorceriy. If I missed one or more I apologize and I'll try to get you more information on those things asap.
Affinity for artifacts and lotus petals (or treasure tokens for that matter).
In your Bolt example, you can tap mana and just have it before you cast a spell as well. It's not wrong. It's the way it used to work in Magic before 6th edition as well--you HAD to tap lands first (someone got DQed from a big event for not doing this after being repeatedly warned too). Tapping the mana first and then announcing the spell is fine in almost all cases. It's not going to matter unless you're trying to cast Tendrils of Agony at 1 life with a City of Brass and you need the tap trigger to go under the Storm copies so you can live. (I've done that in a tournament.) In fact, City of Brass is one of the few reasons this rule matters at all. Chromatic Sphere is another (note that Chromatic Star fixes this). When that card was designed but not released (as it came in Invasion, after 6th edition by about a year), you needed to activate it first, so there was no drawing a card while you were playing its mana ability originally. They try not to design cards like this anymore, Sevala being a big exception and bit of a mistake. If they printed her now, they'd probably make her ability only work when you can play an instant to avoid having to back up.
Even thematically, tortured existence seems like it's saying "we're gonna kill you, and keep bringing you back just to kill you again"
completely unintuitive ruling imo
I mean, you can. You just need a second creature to loop with. “You’re going to watch each other die, over and over”
Here's mine.
Doubling effects dont work with cards like volo that create token copies of creatures.
Deathtouch trample still works the same on a creature with indestructible.
Opponents choose the order of damage modifiers happen.
Doublestrike doesn't attack twice if it kills blocker in first swing but will if it has trample.
Magic is literal. Except all the times it isn't.
These seem to be very specific scenarios with outdated text… one thing I’ve always thought made no sense was assigning blockers and then sacrificing the blockers during combat and somehow still blocking the combat damage afterwards. 🤷♂️
Imagine you are a solider charging for the enemy commander when a enemy solider jump into your path. You slow down, you not going to run straight into their sword. You prepare to fight, when the solider take their sword and drive it through themselves. You watch their lifeless body fall to the ground. You wonder what could of drove that man to become such a zealot.
You look finally look past him and see the commander has gone. You shrug and return to the camp. Your leader want to wear some kind of hat and you see no reason to leave them waiting. They called it a skull...something.
The game would be very broken if blocking worked differently. It would give the attacking player an unfair advantage, if they were holding removal. They could remove your blocker before the damage step, and easily sneak in lethal damage.
Doesnt each player get priority after the aplit second spell resolves? Could you just play and ability or effect after the split second but before the shock?
Yes, you could.
The manland would lose all abilities - including the ability to tap for mana - as a result of Sudden Spoiling.
If you could tap it some other way, then yes you could get the +1+1 from Darksteel Garrison after Sudden Spoiling, but it can't tap on its own anymore.
@@curtin1107 Paul Bomba is more suggesting you counter the shock or pump the manland some other way after the Sudden Spoiling resolves, I think. Unnecessary in this case, but the video was accidentally implying that this wouldn't be possible, when in fact it is.
So, the target before cost rule was explained to me as a verification that there was in fact a valid target for the spell, which given that it was also stressed to me that, generally speaking, you can't target nothing, it seemed perfectly straightforward. Maybe that's specific to how I was taught the game, but I feel like most players will eventually ask "do I have to have a target?" and with that knowledge it seems like a very straightforward way to write the rules that in order to prove you have a valid target and thus can legally cast the spell you must first announce said target, and then you move on to whether you can pay for said spell. But maybe that's just me, your milage may vary.
On the subject of Split Second interactions, I mean you're right that it clearly goes against the design intent of the mechanic as a sort of "last word" that cannot be responded to, but I'd also argue that Split Second is a terribly unfun mechanic for the same reason, interaction makes the game more interesting and I for one applaud the subversion of Split Second.
But if the cathedral of war was already tapped because it attacked, can it be tapped for mana again?
It was supposed to have vigilance and be untapped.
I this it's stupid (despite being the fun option) that a mutated creature counts as your commander regardless of where the commander card is in the pile. It should only work if it's on top in my opinion.
3:48 the transformation to 0/2 "precedes" the +1/+1 because of how the "modifications" happens? I mean its sequence, the sequence similar to the ones helping solve the Humility and Opalescence stuff?
When something says it makes a creature an X/Y it's referring to the creature's base power and toughness (unless it somehow specifies otherwise) meaning that any modifiers currently on it stay, be they +1/+1 counters, temporary buffs like Exalted, the Garrison effect, or otherwise. So it's a 2/2 with a temporary +1/+1 that becomes a 0/2 with a temporary +1/+1
@@thaddeusgenhelm8979 thank you a lot! Now I understand the situation!
oh so A weird thing came up in one of my games where my opponent controlled a Keiga, The Tide Star. A creature which says "When Keiga, the Tide Star is put into a graveyard from play, gain control of target creature" and I had cast Necromantic Selection, which states "Destroy all creatures then return a creature destroyed this way onto the battlefield under your control..." making it a black zombie as well. I had targeted Keiga as it was the best option but, we couldn't exactly figure out who would have control of Keiga at that point, since they said they would use keigas on death trigger to take control of.... keiga...
They can in fact do that! You finish resolving the spell before any triggered abilities go on the stack, and therefore before targets are chosen.
Question question new rith dragon cause over damage to a creature to give you a dragon at end step, if i attacked with a creature that has 4/4 and the guy double blocks and loses two creatures but takes no damage to life, do i create a dragon ?
I got into an argument with the guy and he scooped
If the creatures blocking it had 4 total toughness, you wouldn’t get a dragon. If they had less than 4 total toughness, you would.
However, even if they have 4 or more total toughness, if one of them has less than 4 toughness, you can still choose to assign more damage to that creature than it has toughness, and you would get a dragon.
Board:
Goblin warchief : goblins cost 1 less to play
Skirk prospector: sac a goblin,: produce 1 red
2 mountains
hand: Krenko ({2} and R R : 4 mana)
play:
I declare intent to play Krenko
I figure out his cost ({2}RR - 1 (from warchief) = {1}RR): 3 mana
I pay costs
Tap 2 Mountains to produce RR
I sac 1 goblin (Warchief) to produce 1 R : Warchief goes to the graveyard
I have RRR, which is enough to cast Krenko
Krenko goes on the stack
He resolves
Board:
Skirk prospector: sac a goblin,: produce 1 red
Krenko
2 tapped mountains
Brb, adding Selvala to my Panglacial Wurm deck.. lol.
I'm sure I heard that in a tournament, a guy took an warning because he "added" his mana AFTER casting the spell, so, this is the reason why I think we have to "add" mana already BEFORE casting the spell.
You seems to say the opposite, which make me confuse.
The rules *used* to be that you needed to add mana before casting, which is what that tournament video was about.
The rules have changed since then and you can now add mana during the process of casting a spell.
the stupidest one IMO, is Panglacial Wurm and Selvala. you search your library for any card, then while searching declare to cast panglacial wurm and pay for it using selvala. then as selvala resolves it produces some amount of {G} mana not greater than the amount of players. if the amount of mana you have available then is less than 7, it makes panglacial wurm illegal to cast, so you must return it to your library.then, finally, you can finish tutoring your card.
wild
Panglacial Wurm {5}{G}{G}
Creature - Wurm
Trample
While you're searching your library, you may cast Panglacial Wurm from your library.
9/5
Selvala, Explorer Returned {1}{G}{W}
Legendary Creature - Elf Scout
Parley - {T}: Each player reveals the top card of their library. For each nonland card revealed this way, add {G} and you gain 1 life. Then each player draws a card.
2/4
Speaking of things that don’t use the stack, that’s why I’ve always loved Lands (my fave card type.) An “uncounterable” creature? (Dryad Arbor.) Lotta fun stuff Lands can do and not be stopped. 😈👌🏼
Goblin test pilot with ward creatures you can't pay the ward cost for in comp REL
Merfolk trickster and Dryad of the elysian grove is the stupidest thing ever, even if you negate the effect all lands are still every basic land type .
The one I think is dumbest is trample and damage doublers, the assigned trample damage gets doubled, so if you have 5/5 block a 10/10 with trample and double damage the amount of trample damage to player is 10. Intuitively you'd think 15 dmg would go through, but nah, doubles the assigned damage.
Wouldn't having morph (or unmorph) being a activated ability instead or a special action cause way more rule confusion than it would fix? I think it's just a problem inherent to having the cost to turn a face down creature face up on the face down side of a card. There are just a lot of rules logic and game flow problems if it doesn't turn over immediately. It could *technically* work, but you'd have to seperate revealing and turning the card face up into seperate steps and just from a physical game play space that seems needlessly confusing. Imagine having to explain to a new player that to unmorph you turn the card face up to show the cost, but the card doesn't actually turn face up yet even though it physically turned face up, because you get a chance to respond to the ability even though you had to do what the ability physically wants you to to pay for the game mechanics part of the ability. Gross.
The biggest problem would be that your morph would be opened up to almost any removal. A shock could destroy any of them in response to the morph ability being put on the stack and that's just too much a feels bad
No. Morph is a special action that doesn't use the stack. Idk why they did that thou since you are paying mana to flip the card
@@OverlyCriticalAnime /WHOOSH lol, reread the 2 comments.
@@mfmageiwatch it's not that confusing thou. Whoosh
I always liked using will bender to get around split second in edh back in the day!
My vote for the stupidest is Kess with adventure spells. The rules plainly state that cards with Adventure are not instants and sorceries anywhere but the stack. Therefore, Kess should not be able to see those cards in your graveyard because she says "instant or sorcery card" and cards with adventure are permanents (usually creatures, but some enchantments). So what you do is just say "I'm putting this card from my graveyard on the stack." If you can't do that, you've performed an illegal action and the game unwinds. But Kess now says "Oh, that came from the graveyard. And now it's on the stack. It's an instant or sorcery too! So cast it then!" In other words, casting Adventures with Kess works because you take an illegal action that becomes legal after you do it because of Kess. (Lier works similarly.)
It was never an illegal action in the first place, the rules explicitly state that you take into consideration the alternative set of characteristics before determining legality.
601.3e
Some rules and effects state that an alternative set of characteristics or a subset of characteristics are considered to determine if a card or copy of a card is legal to cast. These alternative characteristics replace the object’s characteristics for this determination. Continuous effects that would apply to that object once it has those characteristics are also considered.
Make Nocol Bolas planeswalker into an artifact with Liquimetal coating. bludgeon brawl to make it equipment, equip Nicol Bolas to Nicol Bolas
You were right, these are competely logical to me and I feel the need to roast you for this
Lol I thought this was General Sam
6:35 funny thing is that this is not a problem in yugioh for its complicated card text, because targets are written in the cost part of the effects and not in the effect part of the effects.
that in fact is why most YGO text appears complicated; it spells out the mechanics much more thoroughly. Most YGO cards would have text comparable to magic cards if they utilized as much shortcutting, such as with keywords. This is mostly a consequence of the game being written in Japanese first, then transcribed into English.
@@ToxicAtom I'd say it's more a consequence of not having a strict rules structure. Magic essentially has a lawbook (comprehensive rules) that has an answer for everything, while Yu-Gi-Oh has some rules for card types and spell speeds, and leaves most of everything else to what is written on cards and how the judges decide to rule things. Rulings can even differ between OCG and TCG, not because of the language barrier, but because of how those effects were argued to interact.
Great video. Channel tip: don't blow out my speakers with outro music, have it quieter than your voice.
Morph also beats split second
Hinata and volcanic offering is another good example of targetting first and paying costs second.
You can attempt to cast volcanic visions, and be able or unable to pay the mana cost depending on what your opponent chooses
Okay, hear me out.
The decision to make everything "spells" is one of the worst for new players in the game.
It's wildly more intuitive for permanents and spells to be separate categories.
And as a result we've had 30 years of repeating the text "Instant or Sorcery" on everything which imo is just really stupid.
That tortured existence ability thing really is just stupid. It doesn't actually make sense either. You can't make a target before paying a cost.
It's like going to the store, you can't buy something without paying for it.
Actually you gave yourself the answer. You go to the store, target the item you wanna purchase and pay the value. You don't go to to the upfront, give money to the cashier and then start picking things
@@1994KKman
That's very true.
Can you talk about cardfight vanguard or force of will?
i think weird tech is great. as long as it doesn't ruin the game, crazy stuff that technically works is super cool.
as a yu-gi-oh player that cost thing is weird, I'm pretty sure cost is always played first, even if an effect is negated (or countered) you still pay the discard cost
That rule doesn't change whether the cost gets paid. Neither player gets a chance to respond until the target has been chosen and the cost has been paid. Are targets not chosen until resolution in Yugioh? Because in Magic, they're chosen on cast/activation.
@@peterbraunschweig2779 Yu-Gi-Oh has problem solving card text that separates what happens before the interaction point for another card and after with a semicolon.
A modern wording would be something like "Discard 1 card, then target up to 2 Spells/Traps on the field; destroy them."
There are some funky cards that don't target at activation or have some other quirks, like Trishula banishing a chosen set of cards without targeting.
There is also Machina Fortress, which you can discard to pay for its own cost which is really funny.
@@peterbraunschweig2779 its
1)Activate ability
2)pay cost
3)response?
4)choose "target"
5)resolve effect
in yugioh, most of the time
Anytime a card gives you an extra turn its a stupid mechanic. This has never been balanced since time walk
If you're attacking with that land, doesn't that already tap it ? So how are you tapping it for mana? And if you tap it for mana, how are you still attacking with it ?
He gave it vigilance with brave the sands
Wouldn't sudden spoiling not remove the indestructible? The indestructible is being granted by the darksteel garrison. The indestructible was never part of what the base creature it was turned into.... And the garrison itself isn't a creature effected by sudden spoiling and it isn't losing the land card type so the fortification isn't falling off. So similar to the +1 from the trigger (or a counter) changing the base creature wouldn't make it vulnerable to the shock
From my understanding, due to layers, it actually depends which card was played first, much like how Humility rulings work. From what I know both effects apply in the same layer, layer 6b, So I believe that because Garrison, and it's effect, were active first, the Sudden Spoiling does in fact remove it.
i agree with it being counter intuitive but i feel like there are alot of mechanics that do that on a variety of cards. half of our games of commander are spent debating rules and how things are effected most of the time
The stupidest rules interaction of all time, IMO, is Wall of Boom. It was short lived and hilarious. Tl;Dr for a period of time in order to make Time Vault work there was a period "between" turns, you could activate Wall of Roots an arbitrarily large number of times, and then win with a Magma Mine.
Hey, big fan. Keep up the awesome work