HOT TILLY 20HP FULL FINAL ASSEMBLY TILLOTSON 212CC
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2019
- Tillotson 212cc Bolt on performance build with mild head work, 20hp estimated, let's do this!
T-Shirts:
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Recoil Stickers 2 for $5.00 free shipping
PayPal email: rpmotorcar@yahoo.com
Contact Mike Kosmo for the Hot 196R coil
Mkosmoski@gmail.com
www.gopowersports.com
joesminibikereunion.net
MUSCLE MINI BIKE BUILDS PAGE
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Parts List:
ENGINE:
212cc Tillotson Hemi Engine
Billet Connecting Rod Tillitson 212
SK200 Slipstream Billet Flywheel: 196cc, 212cc Tillotson, GX200
Advance Timing / Offset Key
4 AND 8'DEGREE
Head, Stock (27mm-25mm valves)
40LB Dual springs
Retainer kit
HP Lash Caps (PAIR)
Stainless Steel Valve, 27mm
Stainless Steel Valve, 25mm
Gage Black Venom Roller Rocker Arms
1.3 RATIO
Camshaft :FIRE .275
Billet Lifter Set
Chromoly Push Rods: 196cc Clones, GX200
Chromoly Push Rods: 5.200" and 5.26
.010" Head Gasket: 196cc Clones, GX200
Header Pipe, F&B Small Block (Low Center Exit)
PARTS/HARDWARE:
Dual Bearing Billet Side Cover
Stud Kit: Cylinder Head
Stud Kit: Side Cover
Stud Kit: Valve Cover
FUEL SIDE:
24MM Flatslide Mikuni Carburetor kit
Round Fuel Pump
1/4" ID Fuel Line {RED 10FT}
ASSY:
Valve Cover Spacer - Non Hemi
Non-Hemi Clear Valve Cover
Alum catch can - Авто та транспорт
By far the best explanation of building a motor I have seen so far! Keep the videos coming as they are very helpful. I found your channel on one of the mini bike Facebook pages.
Thank you for the compliment I try to do my best only out of passion for the hobby and something I've enjoyed since I was 10 years old oh, I feel however I can probably get long-winded in a explanation but I guess that's a little better than not explaining it all, but again thank you for the compliment
I subbed because this is excellent and he actually answers comments!
Thanks for the support
FYI, if you smear a drop of oil on the rod and cap before installing the bearing it will help the bearing self align when torquing down.
I was taught, when building engines not to do that. It has a chance of spinning a bearing. If this is going to self align it could spin. Put it in right dry & you reduce the chance of movement. I guess it's personnel preference.
Really awesome builds great channel just found you guys
Great video loved the way you explained the steps. Subbed
I already knew most of this, and yet I still enjoyed watching you build your engine. You explain things in a clear and interesting way. Great vid.
Thank you Chris, I hope the video answers some questions and helps guys out with there own builds.. 😊👍
Nice build! I’m currently working on my mini bike that the company went outta business shortly after I bought it. I wanted the MM-212 Monster Moto that came with the front hydraulic fork system and the front and rear brakes but had to settle for the MM-B212 same bike with a bit smaller frame tubing a rear disc brake instead of front and rear and no headlight. I solved one problem I put two 4” over and under 60 watt each LED lights wired to an ammo box on rear rack that holds my Talentcell 6,000 A/C mah battery and 12,000 D/C mah with a USB port for charging cellphone or any USB devices. I found a new seat and bought it to have and jetted the carburetor put a large air pod on it and put a low long header on it. But I’m trying to find a 25” fork suspension to hold a tire 19”x7-8 so I need a gap of 9 3/8” between forks Go Power Sports has 28” fork tubes and I’m trying to keep the forks at around 25” from top triple tree to wheel hole. If I can get a set then I’ll put a swing arm on rear for rear shocks. Any ideas of places who might have the front hydraulic forks suspension? The company website who made the mini bike is down and parts for the Monster Moto 212 is very scarce at best.
Contact gopowersports.com
Closed captions titled the sound of the engine running as music 🎶.. accurate 👌
Very Cool Mr. Joe.!
that camerawork is insane man good job 2:00
Thank you.. 😎
If you cut a grove on the bearing at an angle you spread the oil better.
You can rub a bit of oil on the seal to hold it in place.
1:49 i thought someone started knocking at my door lol
Congratulations on the work. I found the head lubrication system very interesting. could you explain better how it was done? Thank you.
I like to run a vent line from either the old governer arm hole ot top of the side cover to the top of the valve cover to help splash lube the rockers, then run a vent off the valve cover to a catch can
Great channel I just joined.
Do you have a suggested torque number for side cover studs along with head studs ? Would the sidecover studs have same toque as factory when installing stuf into motor ?
I torque them to same 200 inch lbs
Sounds pretty good 👍
Thanks Charles.. Now let's see how good I did when it's on the Dyno at JMBR in October.. 😎👍
That dyno is pretty hard on engines, but if I were to guess I would say like 18hp
@@minidragbike I'd like to see that on the chassis dyno 18hp is respectable on 100 octane fuel, I figure 10-12% loss as compared to a crank dyno which would put it at my target of 20hp, thanks for the input.. 👍
Is it just a cam and head swap to convert to non hemi? What else changes? I can only find hemis right now but I wanna go extreme with a non hemi so an aftermarket head is coming qnyhow
What do we need to upgrade the 337cc engine to 20hp?
Wow very nice
What oil line did you use and where did you get it
I'm just wondering when you buy the mikuni 22 or 24 mm carburetors are they already jetted for that particular engine or do you have to figure out the jetting yourself for the pilot jet in the main jet?
Most carbs always need jetting
Yellow Teflon tape is really for natural gas. Use pink Teflon is will handle the oil and has a better heat capability.
@Whoop!
Hey it's better to run an inline fuel filter for the valve cover vent, and the gas tank vent they don't get clogged up with debris since they're enclosed.
Same process for 212 predator engine?
What was the measurement you needed for the plastigauge? I ask because I'm doing a similar build, a stage two on a brand new Tillotson
.0025-.0035 is the range ARC likes to see, I ended up with .003"
What valve cover did you use? I can’t seem to find any that show they can be used in the Tilly
Clear valve cover from go powersports
Aside from the billet side cover, Is that the same block as my Tillotson 212E?
Yes
What piston did you use? i didn't see it in your parts list. Also, I don't see the Fire 275 cam at GPS. I see the Fire 265
Flat top
I need one of those clearance tools
So how much fer this tilly you built
Good
If got a 212e tillotson. Wanting to put flat top piston and billet rod on it. What crank, rod and piston do I use. Having trouble finding anyone with a exact setup to buy
Same rod as a gx200 and use a 70mm wisco piston
I have a stupid question, what is the purpose of the tubes that run from the crank case to the valve cover?
To vent the crankcase and relieve pressure
Can the hemi motor use the regular head from the non hemi. I'm not sure if you said that at the start
Yes, that's what I did with this build, direct bolt on and swap. 👍👍
Hey man, I’m planning to buy the stage 5 head off gopowersports and I’m using your list as reference. It says the gage black venom roller rockers will not work with hemi heads, but you used them on your tillotson? I also have a tillotson 212. How did you make it work? Thanks man!
I converted it from hemi head to standard head
I was looking for the set up plate but I can’t seem to find Danny Halloway on the group page do you know where I can find this set up play I’m in need of one thank you
Following. I’m in need for non Hemi plates
He's on Facebook
What is an acceptable final drive for something with a 3/4” shaft putting out 20 hp
5.1 overall ratio
Nice we got very similar builds - take this sub, and like. What was your jetting for your 24mm flatslide? I got a 275 black mamba senior cam 1.3 ratio billet roller rockers 24mm flatslide flat top billet con rod flywheel very similar -this build rips
How the heck do you keep oil out of the fuel pump no matter where I hook it up my pump gets full of oil?
Pulse line on the intake manifold not valve cover is the best way 😉
What did you torque the gage venom rockers to?
Without looking at my build notes on that motor from a yr ago, I couldn't tell you exactly right now
Nice build..What camera did you use to record? Crystal clear..
A 10 yr old Sony camera believe it or not
How often do you have to change out the bearings from your A.R.C connecting rod?
10hrs running time, I check them at 8 hrs
Ok thank you
WONDERing if ricky Johnson BAD BOY CLUB has seen your logo
I met him back in the 90's when I was a Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha dealer, very cool dude...
Funny you say 🤣 stagger your rings .... rings rotate it really dosent matter . But old school says so.
Well they all rotate eventually in the bore but starting with them clocked or staggered so ring gap ends aren't aligned helps eliminate oil bypass through ring gap, but yeah they move and rotate but not at the same rate or the same time
Is the dual bearing side cover for the tillotson or Predator?
Tillotson, Honda, Predator Hemi and Clones use same side cover, only the non-Hemi Predator are different basically
How did you find that clear valve cover?
Gopowersports.com sells them 😎👍🇺🇸
I have had a question for a while with all of these 20+HP engines, does anybody get the crankshaft and piston/rod balanced?
Some do, I've had a few balanced
For the price how much longevity to you think it adds to the engine? Is it worth it?
Hey man I’m doing an all out build too what size are the stock push rods or witch push rods at go power sports?
5.260 are stock lenth
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds thanks man I really appreciate it can I buy them at go power sports?
I've been torquing to 170 and then just a little "mmmmph" beyond. I've been doing my head bolts at 200 inch# and a little extra on the "mmmmph" since 20 ft# is more like 208 and I don't have a ft# wrench in my temporary shop. Holy shims guy, a Hisun 196 I built had a little play, what made this one travel so much?
The end play was probably by design with that side cover he was using. They just made end play adjustable. I just did a mild build on a NOS Greyhound 196 and it had very very little end play with stock crank and side cover. I didn't bother measuring it.
What do you think of the Hisun? They're not bad. Just a decent clone.
@@Deucealive75 I actually really like the overall casting of the Hisun. Mine is off an early 2016 that was the last of the 3/4 shaft models. I've seen a lot of the older Hisuns still run after years of use and being left outside. I swapped a 14cc head on it and I'm running it on a clutch bike so I'm really running it harder these days. The build I did absolutely loves mid to top end revs. It blows my Predator 212 away so I've deemed it The Predator Getter!
@@fatbuddycat That's great to hear. Over the years I have seen a lot of people buy a 212 just because the Hisun had the 16mm shaft. In many cases the Hisuns were still pretty new. The owners were also new and didn't want to swap out a $30 crankshaft. To me, discarding a decent engine for the mighty Predator is quite a waste. The only reason I have an extra Hisun is because I was dead set on mild building my Greyhound which was originally bought for a mini bike before I even had one. The extra Hisun will be a great backup if any of my other clones fail and I need to swap out right away. Probably wouldn't get that much for it if I sell it because everyone wants a Predator. lol
@@Deucealive75 lol, exactly! I pulled my modified Hisun off my ct200u to sell it with a Predator then modified it even more! I keep a full gx160 race motor on deck, I modify just to do it and its not even on a bike. She's gotta be getting up there in power. I'm working the Honda head pretty soon, I'd really like to get one from PaulsKarts but they are $299!! I'll end up doing it though just to have one of his heads on something whether it goes on a bike in the next year or not. I could always put it on my Hisun which already has the 14cc head conversion.
Very good film, I haven't seen anyone rebalance the crank to remove more weight and needle bearings in the piston.
There's only a few guys that balance these crank assemblys I've never had a issue but do wieght old piston, rings and wrist pin to compare and there usually really close like a few grams close
Bought a lifan xpect 200. It's a 196cc with a big bore and EFI. I don't really know much about small engines but I've been struggling with finding parts. Bought a front sprocket but it didn't fit. I need more power so I can drive on the highways. Only hits about 55 right now. Scared to rip apart cause idk if I can put it back.
I've never messed with one
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds Thank you! I'll watch some more videos and catch on soon.
Why did you change from the hemi head to the standard head?
You can run bigger valves, higher lift cams and rockers with less issues with piston to valve clearence, also non hemi heads are more popular to build higher hp builds
A hemi with a 196cc valve cover? Dir it just bolt right on, or did you have to do any mods to that too?
Swapped out for a non hemi head with larger valves and port work
Head was swapped from a hemi to conventional
I have a question. Being new to the minibike world you said you’re putting the non-Hemi head on the Hemi block. Is this a direct bolt on or are there some modifications needed to accomplish this?
Stan
Direct swap, no issues
Muscle Minibike Builds
Thank you for the info. I’m gonna do that when I get a chance.
I was hoping to see how the plastic gauge works?
We filmed the plastic gage part with intent on using it, however memory card was full and we lost the footage, next build will have it, sorry
So what happened the the plasta gauge? What was the clearance on the rod bearing to the crank journal?
Memory card was full while filming and I never got the footage unfortunately
right.... I was wondering the same thing
Right! I was wondering the same thing.
Would this work in Honda Ruckus?
Completely different style motor
roughly how much for this complete set up?... thank you
Including new engine approx $
$1700
what torque wrench u using
Snap-on
I believe originally this a Honda design. This may be the first American engine copied from China. 😆 I don't blame them, I have a collection of Tilly clone carbs myself.
can we still buy the setup plates?
Yes there available online
People always say they're increasing it up to about 20 horsepower but yet I never see anyone put it on a dyno, I just want some form of proof cuz anyone can say anything
Watch UA-cam live next week on sat Oct 19th and see a live chassis dyno of this build at Joe's minibike reunion in La Crescenta California, as I stated from the first video I will dyno the build!
Muscle Minibike Builds - if you can upload that live feed later after you're done with it that would be great I most likely will miss it
@@beefnugget2494 will do.... 👍
Beautiful piece 👍👍
Where’d you get the rubber adapter
Which adaptor??
Muscle Minibike Builds the red one holding the carb
@@jerheitz7890 that comes with the carb kit from Go Powersports, but if you need just the rubber adapter it's just basically Radiator hose, figure out what inner diameter you need and buy one at a auto parts store, just need to look through the selection oh hoses to find one with enough straight section that works for you
Sry I have another question,tillotson calls for a oil change everytime you run it for 3 hrs or more and a 100 hrs lifespan till it needs rebuilt again on the 225 rs geez,is this true for any built engine of this size because if it is I'm just going to buy a dirtbike and doesn't seem feasible to put my money in something With such a short lifespan.What has been your experience on longevity with these built Motors?
I change my oil alot 3-4 hrs and it's changed, 100 hrs for a rebuild depends on how hard you run it, on a race motor like in a kart yeah probably a simple dear down and inspection would be be the way to really tell, use a good oil and your fine
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds Thankyou sir for taking the time to answer my questions I do appreciate it.
No problem, thanks for supporting the channel
I didnt know they made a clear valve cover for the tillotson 212! Where can I pick one up?! Someones GOTTA help me out with this I'm currently in the process of building one gonna be finished soon
Gopowersports.Com
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds I couldnt find one for the 212 hemi it doesnt seem they have one
Same. They have 2 clear covers and both say not for the tillotson 212
How much your engine 20hp I need to racing boat...this engine I like it...
What kind of piston do u have, is it from gps?
Yes flat top wisco
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds the flat top tillotson piston and does it fit the tillotson billet rod?
Yes
No 3 angle valve job?
Not on this build with standard sized valves, big valve heads, I do get them done with a 3 angle seat
That engine is really shaking did you get that engine balanced or did it come all balanced it's really shaking bad going through all that trouble putting that thing together in the money you spent
It wasn't so bad on the bike, typical single cylinder, it was a sponsored build, I eventually sent out the rotating assembly and had it balanced, that motor is still around had had a few swaps done to it but runs like a champ even after getting run hard for a few yrs
Did you use the stock crank?
Yes, stock crank
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds what do you think about replacing it with the tillotston 212e stroker crank?
I've considered redoing it as a stroker, but it runs so good, I don't wanna take it apart
Is that a good carburetor
Yep
Are you going to the mini bike gambler in May?
Originally I planned on going, then about two months ago I had a scheduling conflict with another event so I knew I wasn't going to be able to make it this year now because of the current situation were in with covid 19 my schedule has changed and I can probably go, with that said however who knows that they're going to be even able to hold the race in Oregon considering everything is now day by day but if it is going to still be on I would like to make the trip
You didn't check the plastic gauge for the rod
I did, we just didn't get on camera unfortunately
We did, memoy card was full never got the footage, my mistake when filming
Did you use the stock piston?
Yes
I'm sorry but that's a flat top piston you used. That engine the 212e comes with a dished piston
Yes... It's a stock cast honda /clone flattop piston, not forged or wisco
I've been an MX tech/racer for 25+ yrs, never seen an o-ring gasket that you cut and just leave it. But whatever works for ya.
Good choice in gauges though, mitutoyo are worth the money
Cut and butt the O ring seal at the top tight on the side cover, that's how its designed, and if you did it right, it never leaks,mine never do
@@MuscleMinibikeBuilds I've always used cyancrolyte (super glue) to fuse em together, it's what comes in the kits they make for hydraulic fittings. But there's not much psi where ur doing it so if it works for ya ur good to go. Personally I'd never try it on a o-ring head gasket.
Will it work on a 212 power horse
Valve seat is way too wide and in the wrong place carry it to a shop get 3angles on the saet and 2 on the valves make the valve seat all way out to the outer edge of valve face and make it about 20 thousandth thick ...it will flow like mad
Arnt these engines illegal in California?
Yep...but I'm in phoenix
Komenda policji w Solcu kujawskim
4:54 that is what she said
ring gap. .004 per inch of bore.. Oh, and never loosen bolts with a torque wrench.
Motor has been rode hard and put away wet for a yr, ring gap is fine, and TQ wrench has a lock position for doing that very thing
07:47 how did you know you brought it back to a 130 and 100 just by loosening it a little bit? Shouldnt you be retightening with 130lbs set on your wrench? and then loosening it up and then setting it to a 100lbs at which point you tighten it to make sure its at 100lbs. ? I didnt know torque wrenches worked with loosening things to certain lbs of torque, or are you simply eyeballing it for the sake of demonstration for this video?
My TQ wrench will work in both directions
I get 25 hp out of flat head briggs I will stick with the flat heads
I did flatheads in the 80's and 90's unfortunately the parts availability gets harder each yr since we're almost 20yrs out of production, I got out of small engine building back then, and got into the OHV motors a few yrs ago
Isnt the point of a tillotson is to have a 10hp engine out the box?
The point of the build is to have a 20hp engine, not everyone is happy with a stock motor, and honesty I think there realistically closer to 8hp than the claimed 10
Did you really set the ring gap to .004” ????? I’m pretty sure .012” - .014” would be much better and recommended by weisco and any piston or ring manufacturer. I don’t think the .004” is a good way to show people how to build these engines .. that mistake in your build could cost multiple people thousands of dollars if they use this as there guide ... I’m sure you’ll delete this but I’ll check back and see ... if this is deleted your a real bad channel to watch ..
I was thinking the same thing Paul it seemed a little tight.
think .004” (per inch of bore) is a good rule of thumb for these
Paul I set ring gap at 004-006' on all my motors haven had one failure, thanks for the comment 👍
That’s just not right .. saying you have never had a failure doesn’t make it right .. makes you lucky and maybe the exception ... setting the ring gap that tight is just asking for problems .. if you order a weisco piston it will come with a pink paper inside .. there is some good info on there .. like I said above .. 12-14 thousands is where this build should be .. a lot of kart guys run there engines wide open for minuits in end after its already at temp .. . 004” ring gap would never fly. Just trying to help the people watching this out .. seems like it’s your most popular video .. that’s a lot of people that might watch this and set there gap wrong .. just keeping the info honest
@@paulskartslifan4206 Paul thanks for the input, however Im not running a wisco it's a stock cast flat top, 4-6 thousands is my usual set up my motors get run and ridden for long hrs without having issues, it's not uncommon for us out here to go on a 20 30 40 mile ride pretty steady cruising along at 40 50 miles an hour and 5 to 7000 RPM for extended periods of time with blasts to 8500 to 9000 RPM when we're just screwing around and I haven't had a failure so I can only go off of that currently as soon as one does fail and happens to be a stuck ring I'll give you a heads up
this makes no sense, it just buy a motor bike engine
If you knew how and why we build these engines and understand what we do with them, you'd know, do a little research before you open your mouth and make a comment about a subject you have zero clue about
trump 2020
So how much fer this tilly you built
Not for sale