I own Klipschorns myself. I’ve heard many what’s considered to be good speakers over the years but nothing has ever come close to just completely blowing me away the way Klipschorns do. If a better sounding speaker exists I’d love to hear it. Honestly I’m completely convinced at this point that the only speakers built that could possibly be better are the new Klipsch jubilee’s though it’s hard to even imagine anything sounding better than a Klipschorn
They're the only speakers that to me, being an orchestral trombonist, sound realistic when reproducing orchestra brass. Everything else sounds like a tinny replica. A proper brass section has heft and weight and Klipschorns (or La Scalas or Fortes or Heresy) are the only speakers I've heard that can provide that.
The first time I heard great imaging was from Klipschorns in Hillcrest High Fidelity's showroom (listening room) in Dallas. I brought a Direct-to-Disc jazz recording (vinyl, "Direct to Disc" meant "vinyl record disc", not "CD disk") to listen to, and the quality of the recording, the hardware I chose, and those Klipschorns, were magical! Unfortunately, I was a poor college student at the time and couldn't afford anything beyond the record I brought, but that's when I fell in love with Klipschorns in the mid-1970's.
Me too . On leave from the USAF my Dad took me to hear them with a Heresy center channel . Salesman , unprompted , put on a Joni Mitchell LP and she joined us in the room . I had a mental ranking of speakers I'd heard and all those became a lesser class with no comparison to the KHorns . Jaw dropping experience !
Wow - that sounds like EXACTLY my experience with hearing Klipsch in the 70s - and at Hillcrest HiFi too! And Marvin Electronics in Fort Worth. I was finally able to buy a used set of Klipschorns (mid 80s models if I remember correctly) sometime in the early 90s and even was able to put them in a music room we designed especially for them. Alas, with some subsequent moves I finally had to sell them but I sure miss that sound although I now have used 1980 Heresy, mid 80s KG4, and brand spanking new RP-600m II.
Thanks Paul Great advice on what the goal of the listening experience no matter what equipment is used . I have a PS audio separates system that flow through Klipsh Forte 4s that has given me the best recorded sound since I became an audiophile in the 80s ! I have been to many live concerts and have been through a long list of highly recommended equipment that was in my budget at the time . Between my current system and being able too explore new and old tunes thru streaming I have been enjoying music more than ever !! . Thanks again !
“Ralph Kramden: Norton, let's face it, I'm a man with big ideas, and sooner or later, one of those ideas is going to catch on. And when they do, I'm going to be a big shot. And do you know what happens to people who become big shots? Ed Norton: Yeah, they forget their relatives.”
For someone who is not crazy about horn loaded speakers, I compliment Paul on being objective and fair to the K-horn's in describing their special characteristics.
Hey Paul, you get some interesting questions! I too fell in love with my Khorns late 70s. I got a bank loan that was almost as much as a car, but I’ve had them ever since. Now Klipsch came out with sealed Khorns and I wonder about placement for those. I doubt I’ll get them, but I often drool when I think of it.
Khorns also require 4' of smooth wall on either side of them. I bought a pair, but had a large window to one side, a heat register that would not allow for sealing, another large window between them on the front wall, and an open doorway on the other speaker side, so I bought the wrong speakers! I just did not get the sound I was hoping for. But I did get a taste of center imaging out front like Paul is talking. The room was a rectangle about 20x30.
Paul always said they required a 32 ' long wall to get optimal performance. I've had Cornwall because never had a big enough room for them. But I live 30 mile from the factory .If you ever get a chance check the museum. He did some crazy sonic weapons research in WW2.
Yes, not every home has "KHorn corners", so if you really want Klipschorns, you need to check for that before you sign any agreements and move in. However, there are options in the Klipsch Heritage Series. There's the Cornwall, which can be placed in a corner or along a wall, thus the name. The next one up, second only to the KHorn, is the La Scala. They've been around since 1963, so if new La Scala AL5s are out of your reach, used La Scalas are all over the place. I lusted after them ever since I heard a pair in 1972, but the price put them out of my reach, so I almost forgot about them. Then one day, I nearly bumped into one at a vintage hi-fi shop. Two days later, that speaker and its brother were in my living room. They were 1974 models, but they still sounded great. Years later, I found a great deal on a pair of 2007 La Scala IIs, so now I have a La Scala surround system! Check out sites like US Audio Mart or eBay, or Amazon, and you never know what you'll find. Also, check out the Klipsch Forum. It has a Garage Sale section, which has all kinds of mostly Klipsch speakers and other gear for sale. Go for it!
@@nomorokay Do you think the Corns or the Scalas will sound excellent with just a sony or yamaha integrated solid state avr? or do I have to up my game there too? Asking for a friend, hahaha!
@@mondoenterprises6710 Well, my system is controlled by a Yamaha RX-A2060 AV receiver, and it sounds really good. However, the La Scala IIs are modded. They’re bi-amped, with their crossovers disconnected. Instead, the signal goes through an Electro-Voice Dx38 digital sound processor/active crossover. The speakers are driven by a pair of Yamaha MX-D1 power amps, one for bass and one for treble. Sure, the better the signal, the better your speakers will sound, but a receiver is fine, and you can always upgrade your electronics when it suits your budget. The speakers will outlive the electronics, and maybe their owner, lol. They call them Heritage Series for a reason.
Nice. Would like to see a topic that discusses placement for a more freestyle listening experience in to the room and not stricly for a specific sitting position.
@@glenncurry3041 Actually, the Heresy got its name because it’s not horn-loaded, unlike all the other Klipsch speakers of that era (1957). A friend of Paul Klipsch heard the speaker, and said something like, “It’s not horn-loaded? But that would be heresy for you!”, and the name stuck. As time went by, Paul found the Heresy to be a bit too small, so he replaced it with the Cornwall, and then the La Scala, which was the best match acoustically, but his wife Belle objected to its stage-ready looks. This was the first recorded case of WAF. Then Paul created the beautiful variation of the La Scala and named it the Belle Klipsch after her. He was a smart man.
The room would need to be treated in a slightly different manner with first reflection points being in different places. Adding a Sub right in the middle of the front would be a nice addition.
At that distance, you may get a "hole in the middle" effect. About 18 feet is usually seen as the maximum gap between stereo speakers. Paul Klipsch discovered this with his own system, and invented the world's first centre speaker, the Heresy, in 1957. To go along with it, he invented a simple circuit to blend the sound of the two corners speakers to feed the centre speaker. Later, he found the Heresy a bit small, so he put a La Scala between his Klipschorns, but his wife Belle objected to its looks, the first case of WAF. Then, he created the Belle Klipsch, a more beautiful version of the La Scala, and happiness was restored.
Actually, if you crunch the speaker close enough to the primary back wall the baffle step is greatly reduced. I use added wall like baffles around the speaker cabinet to reduce this effect. Think of a speaker being placed inside of a wall surface… The effect is gy-normous… The bass output alone is raised by at least 6db.. A 6 inch bookshelf woofer sounds like a 10 inch. I have a beautiful system doing just that… Could not recommend it more…
Funny, Yeasterday I was listen to a Pair Of Klipsch Belle, first time. Yes not corner horns but horns... It was a incredible experience. Ok , they have there flaws, no bass under 50 Hz, so the pipe organ in The Phantom Of The Opera they didn't do so well, but voices and presence. I was really surprised . Not as horny as many say. But something I never experience with any other speaker, the attack. They are so fast. First track on Dire Straits Making Movies, it became a new song. Then we added a SUB, a REL Sub, only sub fast enough. With some fast tweeks it blended so well, ok if We gave it more time it would be even better. Now there was depth to. Now to the only problem...Don't now if the WAF is high enough ;P
The Belle Klipsch was invented for that exact reason. Paul Klipsch put a La Scala between his Klipschorns and his wife objected to its stage-ready looks. In response, he created the Belle Klipsch, one of the best-looking Heritage Series speakers. They also make a great TV stand, so a great setup is 3 Belle Klipsches across the front of the room. Also, as you said, the REL sub/Belle Klipsch (or REL/La Scala) combo makes for really great sound. To go deep, horns have to be really long, but the speakers get crazy big. The Belle and La Scala were designed to be "portable size", and the compromise (there's always a compromise in engineering) was that the deep bass was limited. To be fair, they were invented before CDs and electronic music was around, so they got the job done then. Now, you just have to add a good sub, and they still really get the job done.
I'm imagining a music video, recorded in 360 VR with a great sound track and the audio played back on the main two channel audio system but watching it on an Oculus Quest. I've never heard of that being tried. Thoughts?
Slightly off topic here.. But I have noticed that every time you have done a video from the Music Room. All the equipment is turned on. Do you leave them on all the time?? Or have you just been or about to sit down & listen to some sweet, sweet Octave Records music. Which would lead into the Question.. Is it better to turn off equipment or leave them on?? Or is there a need to let the electronics to "warm up" before use?? Peter, Perth, Western Australia 😀
Unless something has changed, they leave it on all the time. Generally speaking, it is best to leave your gear powered up at all times. I turn off my power amps because they are 50W pure class A mono blocks and really waste a ton of heat.
I previously mentioned a product from Paradox, their time align 12s. And you had to keep your eyes open to swear the band is not right there. There's a suspension of disbelief, at that point
I love Klipsh corner horns, but they mess up phase relationships between bass and midrange. The woofers are several feet "behind" the midrange when everything is unfolded. It's really entertaining to listen to tap dancing! The solution is to bi-amp and introduce appropriate delay to the upper frequencies. Delays weren't available for the first decades of their use.
I prefer the sound being projected as if it was a rock concert. Klipsch and JBL are perfect for that...
I absolutely positively totally completely 100% agree !!!
I own Klipschorns myself. I’ve heard many what’s considered to be good speakers over the years but nothing has ever come close to just completely blowing me away the way Klipschorns do. If a better sounding speaker exists I’d love to hear it. Honestly I’m completely convinced at this point that the only speakers built that could possibly be better are the new Klipsch jubilee’s though it’s hard to even imagine anything sounding better than a Klipschorn
They're the only speakers that to me, being an orchestral trombonist, sound realistic when reproducing orchestra brass. Everything else sounds like a tinny replica. A proper brass section has heft and weight and Klipschorns (or La Scalas or Fortes or Heresy) are the only speakers I've heard that can provide that.
Love Klipschorns, its what started my journey back in 77 or 78. My friends Dad brought a pair home and I have been a fan boy ever since.
The first time I heard great imaging was from Klipschorns in Hillcrest High Fidelity's showroom (listening room) in Dallas. I brought a Direct-to-Disc jazz recording (vinyl, "Direct to Disc" meant "vinyl record disc", not "CD disk") to listen to, and the quality of the recording, the hardware I chose, and those Klipschorns, were magical! Unfortunately, I was a poor college student at the time and couldn't afford anything beyond the record I brought, but that's when I fell in love with Klipschorns in the mid-1970's.
Me too . On leave from the USAF my Dad took me to hear them with a Heresy center channel . Salesman , unprompted , put on a Joni Mitchell LP and she joined us in the room .
I had a mental ranking of speakers I'd heard and all those became a lesser class with no comparison to the KHorns . Jaw dropping experience !
Wow - that sounds like EXACTLY my experience with hearing Klipsch in the 70s - and at Hillcrest HiFi too! And Marvin Electronics in Fort Worth. I was finally able to buy a used set of Klipschorns (mid 80s models if I remember correctly) sometime in the early 90s and even was able to put them in a music room we designed especially for them. Alas, with some subsequent moves I finally had to sell them but I sure miss that sound although I now have used 1980 Heresy, mid 80s KG4, and brand spanking new RP-600m II.
Had the LaScala in the early 70's loved them
I always do my listening tests on all my cables in the dark, it's because all your senses heightened in the dark because you can't see, great video👍
Thanks Paul
Great advice on what the goal of the listening experience no matter what equipment is used . I have a PS audio separates system that flow through Klipsh Forte 4s that has given me the best recorded sound since I became an audiophile in the 80s ! I have been to many live concerts and have been through a long list of highly recommended equipment that was in my budget at the time . Between my current system and being able too explore new and old tunes thru streaming I have been enjoying music more than ever !! .
Thanks again !
“Ralph Kramden: Norton, let's face it, I'm a man with big ideas, and sooner or later, one of those ideas is going to catch on. And when they do, I'm going to be a big shot. And do you know what happens to people who become big shots? Ed Norton: Yeah, they forget their relatives.”
For someone who is not crazy about horn loaded speakers, I compliment Paul on being objective and fair to the K-horn's in describing their special characteristics.
Thanks Paul. "One of these days Alice.....". Norton was the best foil. Gleason's facial expressions lol.
Had corner horns many years ago. Make sure the wall they are up against are solid (concrete or block work well).
Khorns? Why'd you sell them?
Paul, just a nice simple answer
Hey Paul, you get some interesting questions! I too fell in love with my Khorns late 70s. I got a bank loan that was almost as much as a car, but I’ve had them ever since. Now Klipsch came out with sealed Khorns and I wonder about placement for those. I doubt I’ll get them, but I often drool when I think of it.
Good information. Oh, and I grew up with the Honeymooners! Golden years of tv.
Khorns also require 4' of smooth wall on either side of them. I bought a pair, but had a large window to one side, a heat register that would not allow for sealing, another large window between them on the front wall, and an open doorway on the other speaker side, so I bought the wrong speakers! I just did not get the sound I was hoping for. But I did get a taste of center imaging out front like Paul is talking. The room was a rectangle about 20x30.
Paul always said they required a 32 ' long wall to get optimal performance. I've had Cornwall because never had a big enough room for them. But I live 30 mile from the factory .If you ever get a chance check the museum. He did some crazy sonic weapons research in WW2.
Yes, not every home has "KHorn corners", so if you really want Klipschorns, you need to check for that before you sign any agreements and move in. However, there are options in the Klipsch Heritage Series. There's the Cornwall, which can be placed in a corner or along a wall, thus the name. The next one up, second only to the KHorn, is the La Scala. They've been around since 1963, so if new La Scala AL5s are out of your reach, used La Scalas are all over the place. I lusted after them ever since I heard a pair in 1972, but the price put them out of my reach, so I almost forgot about them. Then one day, I nearly bumped into one at a vintage hi-fi shop. Two days later, that speaker and its brother were in my living room. They were 1974 models, but they still sounded great.
Years later, I found a great deal on a pair of 2007 La Scala IIs, so now I have a La Scala surround system! Check out sites like US Audio Mart or eBay, or Amazon, and you never know what you'll find. Also, check out the Klipsch Forum. It has a Garage Sale section, which has all kinds of mostly Klipsch speakers and other gear for sale. Go for it!
@@nomorokay Do you think the Corns or the Scalas will sound excellent with just a sony or yamaha integrated solid state avr? or do I have to up my game there too? Asking for a friend, hahaha!
@@mondoenterprises6710
Well, my system is controlled by a Yamaha RX-A2060 AV receiver, and it sounds really good. However, the La Scala IIs are modded. They’re bi-amped, with their crossovers disconnected. Instead, the signal goes through an Electro-Voice Dx38 digital sound processor/active crossover. The speakers are driven by a pair of Yamaha MX-D1 power amps, one for bass and one for treble. Sure, the better the signal, the better your speakers will sound, but a receiver is fine, and you can always upgrade your electronics when it suits your budget. The speakers will outlive the electronics, and maybe their owner, lol. They call them Heritage Series for a reason.
Nice. Would like to see a topic that discusses placement for a more freestyle listening experience in to the room and not stricly for a specific sitting position.
A great album to try this with is Carole Kings 'Tapestry'. It has just enough band members to get that live sound.
That's good to know.
The trick of K horns is a 50 watt amp and a hersey center channel speaker its what Paul Klipsch intended.
i thought the la scala was the intended center channel for k horns.
@@davidtimmerman3121 Heresy, and that was why he called it that. A 3rd speaker for a 2 channel system.
@@glenncurry3041
Actually, the Heresy got its name because it’s not horn-loaded, unlike all the other Klipsch speakers of that era (1957). A friend of Paul Klipsch heard the speaker, and said something like, “It’s not horn-loaded? But that would be heresy for you!”, and the name stuck.
As time went by, Paul found the Heresy to be a bit too small, so he replaced it with the Cornwall, and then the La Scala, which was the best match acoustically, but his wife Belle objected to its stage-ready looks. This was the first recorded case of WAF. Then Paul created the beautiful variation of the La Scala and named it the Belle Klipsch after her. He was a smart man.
My soundstage is behind the speakers but also submerged like the singer is up to her/his middle in concrete or in a 3 foot pit.
I remember reading about the irs betas infinitys) vs klipsch horns wall conducted by infinity corporation 1970sGuess who won the shoot out?
@@twobeer3316 ask paul
The room would need to be treated in a slightly different manner with first reflection points being in different places.
Adding a Sub right in the middle of the front would be a nice addition.
Paul, are those GIK acoustic absorbers/diffusor combo panels on the sidewall?
I believe they are made by Vicoustic
@@frankkroll7881 That is correct, Vicoustic.
When I hear Norton, I think of the motorcycles
I get that great in Von Schweikert Vr-4 Generation 2s
I was hoping Paul would have talked about the optimal distance for "corner speakers. I have a pair and have them 21 feet apart!
At that distance, you may get a "hole in the middle" effect. About 18 feet is usually seen as the maximum gap between stereo speakers. Paul Klipsch discovered this with his own system, and invented the world's first centre speaker, the Heresy, in 1957. To go along with it, he invented a simple circuit to blend the sound of the two corners speakers to feed the centre speaker. Later, he found the Heresy a bit small, so he put a La Scala between his Klipschorns, but his wife Belle objected to its looks, the first case of WAF. Then, he created the Belle Klipsch, a more beautiful version of the La Scala, and happiness was restored.
Actually, if you crunch the speaker close enough to the primary back wall the baffle step is greatly reduced. I use added wall like baffles around the speaker cabinet to reduce this effect.
Think of a speaker being placed inside of a wall surface… The effect is gy-normous… The bass output alone is raised by at least 6db.. A 6 inch bookshelf woofer sounds like a 10 inch. I have a beautiful system doing just that… Could not recommend it more…
Funny, Yeasterday I was listen to a Pair Of Klipsch Belle, first time. Yes not corner horns but horns... It was a incredible experience. Ok , they have there flaws, no bass under 50 Hz, so the pipe organ in The Phantom Of The Opera they didn't do so well, but voices and presence. I was really surprised . Not as horny as many say. But something I never experience with any other speaker, the attack. They are so fast. First track on Dire Straits Making Movies, it became a new song. Then we added a SUB, a REL Sub, only sub fast enough. With some fast tweeks it blended so well, ok if We gave it more time it would be even better. Now there was depth to. Now to the only problem...Don't now if the WAF is high enough ;P
The Belle Klipsch was invented for that exact reason. Paul Klipsch put a La Scala between his Klipschorns and his wife objected to its stage-ready looks. In response, he created the Belle Klipsch, one of the best-looking Heritage Series speakers. They also make a great TV stand, so a great setup is 3 Belle Klipsches across the front of the room.
Also, as you said, the REL sub/Belle Klipsch (or REL/La Scala) combo makes for really great sound. To go deep, horns have to be really long, but the speakers get crazy big. The Belle and La Scala were designed to be "portable size", and the compromise (there's always a compromise in engineering) was that the deep bass was limited. To be fair, they were invented before CDs and electronic music was around, so they got the job done then. Now, you just have to add a good sub, and they still really get the job done.
I'm imagining a music video, recorded in 360 VR with a great sound track and the audio played back on the main two channel audio system but watching it on an Oculus Quest. I've never heard of that being tried. Thoughts?
Another awesome video by a guy named Paul.
Slightly off topic here.. But I have noticed that every time you have done a video from the Music Room. All the equipment is turned on.
Do you leave them on all the time?? Or have you just been or about to sit down & listen to some sweet, sweet Octave Records music.
Which would lead into the Question.. Is it better to turn off equipment or leave them on?? Or is there a need to let the electronics to "warm up" before use??
Peter, Perth, Western Australia 😀
Unless something has changed, they leave it on all the time.
Generally speaking, it is best to leave your gear powered up at all times.
I turn off my power amps because they are 50W pure class A mono blocks and really waste a ton of heat.
I previously mentioned a product from Paradox, their time align 12s. And you had to keep your eyes open to swear the band is not right there. There's a suspension of disbelief, at that point
Now if I could just get a set without breaking my bank.....
~ 2:50 I like this answer.
BANG ZOOM!!!
I love Klipsh corner horns, but they mess up phase relationships between bass and midrange. The woofers are several feet "behind" the midrange when everything is unfolded. It's really entertaining to listen to tap dancing! The solution is to bi-amp and introduce appropriate delay to the upper frequencies. Delays weren't available for the first decades of their use.
Who the F listens to tap dancing on Klipschorns lol? Bet these suck for clog dancing too....
Any one listen to Glen Jones on WFMU? He toasts the Cramdens & Nortons every sunday!
Haha! Norton!
i thought you were designing speakers that could be placed around about a foot away from the wall..
We are. The rear of the new FR30 can be as close as a foot or two from the front wall if you use the included baffle step setting.
_been saying this for years:_
_"If you can't close your eyes and see the show, then it's not music."_
MFG (1953 - 2021 or longer)
Von Schweikert VR-4 Second generation
💪💪💪💪👋
My magnepans sound bad if they're too close to the wall.
No need to explain the Honeymooners.
Safe bet that most on this channel are on the old (er) side
Unfortunately today 1-14-2024 Trixie, Joyce Randolph, Norton’s tv wife on The Honeymooners passed away at 99 years old…
aircon,,, next to spkrs...
Paul:
ua-cam.com/video/ySCWBiiyOs8/v-deo.html
Paul.... you have called behind the speakers "Audio Nirvana" are you get soft for UA-cam? Just a ribbing.
Look at the guy selling your speakers on audiogon and you will see a room there supposed to be in 😊
When I hear Norton, I think of the motorcycles