I’m a SAAB 2000 pilot, we got trained to ALWAYS verify the “scoreboard”, autopilot info and inputs, whenever you are confused about what it’s doing. These guys definitely had tunnel vision. Glad they made it out safe but they definitely needed to test if the autopilot was actually off before hitting the emergency trim switch. In the SAAB, if it did enable then they only could’ve flown the elevator with the trim, it’s extremely difficult.
It's great to have this first hand information from a SAAB pilot. Do you think the AP should be overrun by pilots inputs like in most aircraft? It's hard for me to believe that Swedish could effed up something regarding security in any kind of vehicle!
In reading the actions of the Captain, I was pleased to see him anticipate the possibility of a strike and gave the FO procedural information, prior to the problem occurring. In a lot of these types of videos, you read/hear that the pilots are not communicating effectively and often there's a big ego trip playing out or a first officer is feeling intimidated by the hierarchy with often catastrophic results.
I’m not sure proud is the right word, but interesting to see my home airline feature, and thanks for the upload! Flown that route many times. Thank god for the outcome and the glitch!
I've been watching your vids for years Allec, another great addition. This one is of particular significance though as I'm from Shetland and also worked at the Sumburgh Airport for Loganair for 2 years. Delighted everyone survived. I don't think many people on the island realised how close the flight really came to a major disaster until years later.
Flew in a SAAB twin engine aircraft from KIAH to KDFW in late February 1994 of first leg of my unforgettable trip to the Philippines to meet and marry the love of my life. This coming March will mark our 29th anniversary. Kuya Dave
If you're sitting in a plane and they're boarding passengers and that mournful piano piece played at the end of Alec's uploads is stuck in your head,make like geese and get the flock out ta there.
"The pilot 'assumed' the autopilot had disconnected." Yep, there's that dangerous word, "assumed." The first thing I thought while watching this was "I'll bet the AP is still engaged."
Really? I didn't. I wasn't aware until today that any autopilot system would remain on during the large control inputs and pitch trim adjustments being made. That is a weird airplane.
Check out my latest video "MD-11 Disaster After Landing | The Last Push | Lufthansa Cargo Flight 8460" Watch Now: ua-cam.com/video/1PEpwCWkBoU/v-deo.html
this could have ended very badly....crashing or ditching into a dark cold sea in winter, minimal chance of survival....still trying to get my head around how a fault actually saved the plane though! As an aside, after 60 years in the business as a regional carrier, Loganair has just secured landing slots at Heathrow, and is competing with the big boys at last!
A change from green to white for the AP indicator was another aspect of bad design in this aircraft. 'Design is thinking made visible.' What were those designers thinking?
One thing I've never been able to understand is: why did the plane not level off at 2000 feet after it began to dive? If the autopilot was still engaged at that point and directing the plane to 2000 feet, why not hold that altitude once it was attained? Unless the autopilot disengaged while the plane was above 2000 feet, meaning that there would be no autopilot intervention to arrest the dive. But the autopilot disengaged seemingly just seconds from impact, it seems that it would have disengaged when the plane was lower? Then again, if the plane was diving at 10,000 fpm (which it was at one point), it would knock off 2000 feet in 12 seconds. So maybe it did disengage above 2000 feet? In which case, its disengagement was not a blessing, but a curse? Ultimately, this is my question: How high was the plane when the autopilot disengaged?
No thanks to Saab 2000 - I will stick with Beech - Raytheon 1900 With only 10 passengers max ! That is when you get very hi twin prop performance ! Big fun - Like your own little jet fighter .
Kind of split in my thoughts on this Saab aircraft autopilot system. On one hand it's good that the AP doesn't disengage, so if the flight controls get bumped accidentally the AP doesn't disconnect without the pilots knowing. This scenario happened with Eastern Air Lines L1011 that crashed into the Everglades in Florida in the 1970s. On the other hand one would think that you'd want the AP to disconnect when flight controls are adjusted in an emergency. Not sure which is better. These pilots definitely messed up by not fully understanding their aircraft systems.
I just watched the Air Disasters episode of this event on TV, and found it to be the most confounding episode I have ever seen. Was hoping this video might add some info, but no luck. Unless I missed something, some very obvious basic explanations were left out. First, if the lighting struck at altitude of 2000, then how were they able to climb to 4000, then all of a sudden the auto-pilot forced them back into a rapid descent? Second, and more importantly, why on earth would the plane have crashed into the sea if the autopilot was set to 2000?
I was going to ask why the captain didn't look at the autopilot indicator to see if it were still engaged or not, but tunnel vision is a likely explanation. He was so focused on the autopilot automatically switching off after the lightning strike that he didn't bother looking to see if it were actually off or not.
@@haydensanford1987 That answer, my friend, is beyond my pay grade. We're talking the finite, trying to understand the Infinite, ALMIGHTY, uncreated, CREATOR of ALL THINGS. Why did my lovely wife of 32 years, my best friend, fitness expert & healthiest eater of anyone I've known, die of Liver Cancer at 56 years old ? I have no satisfactory answer save that it pleased Him to heal her not on Earth but for ALL Eternity with Him. PERFECTED, in a blink - for her good & God's Glory. (Profoundly tragic for me & our 5 children... yet Trials perfect us...plus GOD is pleased when we "walk by Faith & not by sight". GOD desires fellowship with us !) So, Our lives have profound meaning, here on Earth 🌎 & beyond the grave, in Heaven & in a perfected future State - and yes it takes FAITH to see that. But GOD has given a few hints: Check out the B(asic)I(instructions)B(before)L (eaving)E(arth). Sorry my answer is somewhat lame & incomplete. If He could be fully explicated in a YT comment, He wouldn't be GOD, eh ?
I'll never forget landing in Kirkwall in a SAAB one February long since. I am not a nervous flyer but when suddenly the captain announces that he's already tried to land twice and you didn't even realise it that is a worry! "Third time or else we have to fly to Aberdeen", thankfully he slammed the thing down in ridiculous gusts, what a job to have.
Luck only prevented a hull loss here. It sounds a lot like the incident with a Gill Airways Fokker 100 approaching Paris CDG in November 2000 where passengers and crew had to move forward in the cabin to assist the with pitch control. Elevator icing was an issue, however, so was the flight crew believing that the AP had been disconnected when it wasn't.
Wow. So the plane saved itself, despite the mistakes of the crew, the biggest one being the pilot believing his assumption was true even though the plane kept trying to tell him that it was false. Wow.
SAAB, always going there own way. ignition between the front seats in cars, autopilot without override feature! 😂 Great video as usual Alec! Regards from Sweden
Geez .... That autopilot was very insistent on 2200 ft! At first it put up a fight and then it had a fit and said, "you're going down lower whether you like it or not"!
Not smart to fail to check whether the AP was off or not; but the Captain did the right thing in returning home. It would inconvenience the passengers but not nearly as much as having to swim.
well, another accident in which AP override occurs 30secs after constant pressure on the stick... Pilot was having his son on his lap while cruising. Damn if you have AP override, Damn if you don't.
Alex I love your videos. However, the subtext disappears on the screen. Also, please try and find friendlier background. Its really monotonous. Thank you. I do enjoy your analysis and the great amount of research you put into your videos.
Strange because I've always enjoyed Alec"s cinematic sequences because he does his best to replicate the entire aircraft; the livery, tail numbers, etc. I don't have any problems with the text. If I ever want to further analyze what he's typed, I'll pause the video. Hope that helps.
@@deepthinker999 With the 737 Max crashes, engaging the autopilot may have saved the planes. MCAS was only engaged when the autopilot was off. By turning on the autopilot, MCAS would have been turned off.
@@Eternal_Tech Nope, MCAS in 737MAX is independent system, physical trim off switch is able to stop this crap from working or flap set at least on first position also disengage MCAS. Because this problems with MCAS started since clean configuration was set after takeoff.
Obviously they dodged one here. Glad everyone was ok. Good thing those purpose built computers performed until retirement-I would have never trusted them again.
@@donnabaardsen5372 It's the HAL 9000's great great great grandchild lol How do we disconnect it like Dave did of the original one in 2001: A Space Odyssey ?
Why design the autopilot to behave abnormally to all other aircraft and to operate counter to common sense? Sure a well trained Saab pilot can see the minuscule AP indicator and know the difference between green and white, but in high demand situations, having an abnormally behaving system which defies logic can make things more difficult. I’m not the only one who thinks so because they had the system changed in all the craft. Still, why design a bozo system to begin with?
They call it just a glitch. uh that's not a Glitch.. That's major flaw and whoever designed it should be shot, fired, and sent to the Russian Front, and trust me they can do it. lol
I’m a SAAB 2000 pilot, we got trained to ALWAYS verify the “scoreboard”, autopilot info and inputs, whenever you are confused about what it’s doing. These guys definitely had tunnel vision. Glad they made it out safe but they definitely needed to test if the autopilot was actually off before hitting the emergency trim switch. In the SAAB, if it did enable then they only could’ve flown the elevator with the trim, it’s extremely difficult.
I was thinking the same thing. They were very fortunate to have some sky underneath them...
Joe...loved your comment! Nice to see your opinion...with merit...regarding these Saab aircraft. Glad everyone survived!
It's great to have this first hand information from a SAAB pilot.
Do you think the AP should be overrun by pilots inputs like in most aircraft? It's hard for me to believe that Swedish could effed up something regarding security in any kind of vehicle!
@@bullseyes1983 the swedes eat a lot of herring and swedish fish.
I'm a Saab 2000 pilot too! Not too many of us out there...
One of the rare occasions where a glitch was a good thing. Glad everybody survived this incident.
😢😢😢
It's really frustrating to think that planes are solely reliant on technology and when it fails most pilots seem to be unable to fly a plane manually
In reading the actions of the Captain, I was pleased to see him anticipate the possibility of a strike and gave the FO procedural information, prior to the problem occurring.
In a lot of these types of videos, you read/hear that the pilots are not communicating effectively and often there's a big ego trip playing out or a first officer is feeling intimidated
by the hierarchy with often catastrophic results.
Nice 'lightning' effect you put in there Allec!
I’m not sure proud is the right word, but interesting to see my home airline feature, and thanks for the upload! Flown that route many times. Thank god for the outcome and the glitch!
I've been watching your vids for years Allec, another great addition. This one is of particular significance though as I'm from Shetland and also worked at the Sumburgh Airport for Loganair for 2 years. Delighted everyone survived. I don't think many people on the island realised how close the flight really came to a major disaster until years later.
Wow I was biting nails the whole time. That GOD they got on the ground safely. Those pilots deserve some serious recognition!
Keep up the good work Alec!! Your videos are always amazing!!
Flew in a SAAB twin engine aircraft from KIAH to KDFW in late February 1994 of first leg of my unforgettable trip to the Philippines to meet and marry the love of my life. This coming March will mark our 29th anniversary. Kuya Dave
So fortunate in such a dangerous situation.
Dangerous indeed. Planes have broken apart before due to lightning strikes
Whatever errors happened were just human and they brought the plane down safely. I hope they were able to keep their jobs.
If you're sitting in a plane and they're boarding passengers and that mournful piano piece played at the end of Alec's uploads is stuck in your head,make like geese and get the flock out ta there.
Sumburgh is a jolly windy place. I used to fly there during my Loganair days. We had seven Sheds, but only one had an autopilot.
"The pilot 'assumed' the autopilot had disconnected." Yep, there's that dangerous word, "assumed." The first thing I thought while watching this was "I'll bet the AP is still engaged."
Really? I didn't. I wasn't aware until today that any autopilot system would remain on during the large control inputs and pitch trim adjustments being made. That is a weird airplane.
@@artisanautobody3931 Their cars (when they were in business) were strange too.
Love your videos. Great info and analysis. Simulation really puts one there aboard the aircraft. Top stuff.
Check out my latest video "MD-11 Disaster After Landing | The Last Push | Lufthansa Cargo Flight 8460"
Watch Now: ua-cam.com/video/1PEpwCWkBoU/v-deo.html
Wow that was close! Weird, don't remember hearing about it until now
Pilot Joe thank you 🙏
this could have ended very badly....crashing or ditching into a dark cold sea in winter, minimal chance of survival....still trying to get my head around how a fault actually saved the plane though! As an aside, after 60 years in the business as a regional carrier, Loganair has just secured landing slots at Heathrow, and is competing with the big boys at last!
You know weather is going to be shitty when the f***ing ATIS is blown by lightning.
A change from green to white for the AP indicator was another aspect of bad design in this aircraft.
'Design is thinking made visible.' What were those designers thinking?
One thing I've never been able to understand is: why did the plane not level off at 2000 feet after it began to dive? If the autopilot was still engaged at that point and directing the plane to 2000 feet, why not hold that altitude once it was attained? Unless the autopilot disengaged while the plane was above 2000 feet, meaning that there would be no autopilot intervention to arrest the dive. But the autopilot disengaged seemingly just seconds from impact, it seems that it would have disengaged when the plane was lower? Then again, if the plane was diving at 10,000 fpm (which it was at one point), it would knock off 2000 feet in 12 seconds. So maybe it did disengage above 2000 feet? In which case, its disengagement was not a blessing, but a curse?
Ultimately, this is my question: How high was the plane when the autopilot disengaged?
If the animation is accurate, the AP disengaged around 3800 feet while still in a steep dive.
Eject !
No thanks to Saab 2000 - I will stick with Beech - Raytheon 1900 With only 10 passengers max !
That is when you get very hi twin prop performance ! Big fun - Like your own little jet fighter .
Thanks Alec!
Kind of split in my thoughts on this Saab aircraft autopilot system. On one hand it's good that the AP doesn't disengage, so if the flight controls get bumped accidentally the AP doesn't disconnect without the pilots knowing. This scenario happened with Eastern Air Lines L1011 that crashed into the Everglades in Florida in the 1970s. On the other hand one would think that you'd want the AP to disconnect when flight controls are adjusted in an emergency. Not sure which is better. These pilots definitely messed up by not fully understanding their aircraft systems.
I just watched the Air Disasters episode of this event on TV, and found it to be the most confounding episode I have ever seen. Was hoping this video might add some info, but no luck. Unless I missed something, some very obvious basic explanations were left out. First, if the lighting struck at altitude of 2000, then how were they able to climb to 4000, then all of a sudden the auto-pilot forced them back into a rapid descent? Second, and more importantly, why on earth would the plane have crashed into the sea if the autopilot was set to 2000?
I was going to ask why the captain didn't look at the autopilot indicator to see if it were still engaged or not, but tunnel vision is a likely explanation. He was so focused on the autopilot automatically switching off after the lightning strike that he didn't bother looking to see if it were actually off or not.
Diversion was the best thing for this situation
That was a hairy ride! Saab is a great aircraft.
G-LGNO Is now flying under the Registration ES-NSE Flying for NyxAir.
Can you do Vietnam airlines 474 next? I can’t find any further info about it and wondering about it all days
Also keep up with the good work!
Praise God - I was concerned this was gonna be a bad one !
gonna?
So how does "God" decide which aircraft to let crash and which to save?
@@haydensanford1987 Like people in a hurricane who praise God for saving them, who do you think sent the hurricane in the first place.
@@Capecodham lol!
@@haydensanford1987
That answer, my friend, is beyond my pay grade.
We're talking the finite, trying to understand the Infinite, ALMIGHTY, uncreated, CREATOR of ALL THINGS.
Why did my lovely wife of 32 years, my best friend, fitness expert & healthiest eater of anyone I've known, die of Liver Cancer at 56 years old ?
I have no satisfactory answer save that it pleased Him to heal her not on Earth but for ALL Eternity with Him.
PERFECTED, in a blink - for her good & God's Glory.
(Profoundly tragic for me & our 5 children... yet Trials perfect us...plus GOD is pleased when we "walk by Faith & not by sight".
GOD desires fellowship with us !)
So, Our lives have profound meaning, here on Earth 🌎 & beyond the grave, in Heaven & in a perfected future State - and yes it takes FAITH to see that.
But GOD has given a few hints:
Check out the B(asic)I(instructions)B(before)L
(eaving)E(arth).
Sorry my answer is somewhat lame & incomplete.
If He could be fully explicated in a YT comment, He wouldn't be GOD, eh ?
They were really lucky that glitch showed up when it did.
Scotland: where the wind speed rivals a turboprop’s final approach speed 😮💨
I'll never forget landing in Kirkwall in a SAAB one February long since. I am not a nervous flyer but when suddenly the captain announces that he's already tried to land twice and you didn't even realise it that is a worry! "Third time or else we have to fly to Aberdeen", thankfully he slammed the thing down in ridiculous gusts, what a job to have.
Yeah wind at 30+mph has got to be a challenge
@@wobblybobengland Anything's better than going to Aberdeen!
6:02 At this point I would've crapped in my pants.
I was under the impression the Auto pilot would dis engage when a certain amount of pressure from the pilot was placed on the yoke.
I should have watched to the end. manual input on the yoke does NOT disengage the A P
Luck only prevented a hull loss here. It sounds a lot like the incident with a Gill Airways Fokker 100 approaching Paris CDG in November 2000 where passengers and crew had to move forward in the cabin to assist the with pitch control. Elevator icing was an issue, however, so was the flight crew believing that the AP had been disconnected when it wasn't.
Wow. So the plane saved itself, despite the mistakes of the crew, the biggest one being the pilot believing his assumption was true even though the plane kept trying to tell him that it was false. Wow.
Why do you show the exterior and cockpit of a SF340, not the SAAB 2000? The subtitles explaining switch selections do not comport with the video.
Would’ve liked to hear the warning chime in the video to see how hard/easy it was to miss.
SAAB, always going there own way.
ignition between the front seats in cars, autopilot without override feature! 😂
Great video as usual Alec!
Regards from Sweden
Saab the Olympus cameras of the automotive world ;-)
12/15/2004
Logan 6780
Route: Aberdeen - Shetlands
Names: Unknown, Unknown
Ages: 42, 35
Flying Time: 5780, 1054
On Board: 33
Age: 19
Type: Saab 2000
Status: Landing
Survivors: 100%
Future Log:
??/??/2020: Plane Stored
Geez .... That autopilot was very insistent on 2200 ft! At first it put up a fight and then it had a fit and said, "you're going down lower whether you like it or not"!
Sounds as though the F/O should have consulted the official owners manual. It's usually kept in the glove compartment, next to his right knee.
Not smart to fail to check whether the AP was off or not; but the Captain did the right thing in returning home. It would inconvenience the passengers but not nearly as much as having to swim.
You will always get a like prior to watch the video as I know it would be great job!!!
I love your content put the plane you are showing is a 340 not a 2000
well,
another accident in which AP override occurs 30secs after constant pressure on the stick...
Pilot was having his son on his lap while cruising.
Damn if you have AP override, Damn if you don't.
Both damn when pilot don't understand aircraft systems.
When you see the plane landing in Aberdeen! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Simulator training doesn't always apply to real life situations 😒🤷♂️. It definitely helps and is necessary but not the end all be all
The pilots training must take some of the blame. Two scenarios of lightning strikes and the A/P disconnects both times!
Alex I love your videos. However, the subtext disappears on the screen. Also, please try and find friendlier background. Its really monotonous. Thank you. I do enjoy your analysis and the great amount of research you put into your videos.
Same opinion here, Brian. The text is very difficult to read in white, unless it's on a dark background.
Strange because I've always enjoyed Alec"s cinematic sequences because he does his best to replicate the entire aircraft; the livery, tail numbers, etc. I don't have any problems with the text. If I ever want to further analyze what he's typed, I'll pause the video. Hope that helps.
Never had any issues with any videos
I do not like to fly when it storms . I don't see how people do it.... it's too dangerous
Very interesting incident but the title is very misleading. I expected to hear about a ditching or crash into water.
Wow. Could have been so much worse.
I'm an hour late because of daylight time zone change. Haha
Saved by glitch remarkable.
an hour away from the airport
Just disconnect the autopilot and you're good to save the plane. No problem.
Absolutely correct, or at least verify its status before acting.
Reminds me of the (2) recent 737 Max crashes where disconnecting the auto pilot might have saved the airplane.
@@deepthinker999 With the 737 Max crashes, engaging the autopilot may have saved the planes. MCAS was only engaged when the autopilot was off. By turning on the autopilot, MCAS would have been turned off.
@@Eternal_Tech Nope, MCAS in 737MAX is independent system, physical trim off switch is able to stop this crap from working or flap set at least on first position also disengage MCAS. Because this problems with MCAS started since clean configuration was set after takeoff.
Obviously they dodged one here. Glad everyone was ok. Good thing those purpose built computers performed until retirement-I would have never trusted them again.
A welcomed happy ending!
Always opt for the happy ending
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 i needed a towel...for tears of joy, lmao!
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 That is what the manager at the massage parlor told me. 😊
Nightmare In The North Sea | Loganair Flight 6780
Nightmare In The North Sea | Loganair Flight 6780
That’s what the title says
@@boblawblaw6875 I know, right? I've seen other's repeat title's, too. Very strange.
@@donnabaardsen5372 It's the HAL 9000's great great great grandchild lol
How do we disconnect it like Dave did of the original one in 2001: A Space Odyssey ?
@anandguruji83
Hey bot if you reply to this message I'll stop posting under your comments !
Beavis and butthead strike again. Just one more reason I don't fly any more, that and these episodes, good job. Thanks.
Yeah, probably not a good idea to assume anything when flying.
Its headed CV to Shetland, Scotland to pick up a load of ponies.
A case where an accident saved the day. 👀🙂
sir Creat a UA-cam Short Vedios For Notificatin On Your new Vedios 😍🥰🥰🥰
Literally survive because of sheer luck
Another example of too complicated to fly and poor human factors design.
Another incident fundamentally caused by the pilots not knowing how the plane works....
That is standard operating procedure on Airbus.
Saved by a glitch 🤦♂️😏
Those Flight Systems that "Override" Pilots, are one The most accident causes on Airbuses.
Fly USA-Made Airplanes!
Dude, have we already forgotten MCAS?
USA-Made Airplanes: Hold my DC-10
Hello
Petunia Skunk
Pepe Le Pew says hello back to you
@@watershed44 There should be an everybody survived contest to see how many people want to see their name in the comments.
reminds me of HAL 9000
Why design the autopilot to behave abnormally to all other aircraft and to operate counter to common sense? Sure a well trained Saab pilot can see the minuscule AP indicator and know the difference between green and white, but in high demand situations, having an abnormally behaving system which defies logic can make things more difficult. I’m not the only one who thinks so because they had the system changed in all the craft. Still, why design a bozo system to begin with?
They call it just a glitch. uh that's not a Glitch.. That's major flaw and whoever designed it should be shot, fired, and sent to the Russian Front, and trust me they can do it. lol
Proof positive, Saab's aircraft weren't much better than their cars.
I like and appreciate this channel..but a narrated report allows me to close my eyes and relax ...sorry no subscribe.
reportage nul...et totalement incomprehensible !
I wish you would disable comments, people always ruin what happens at the end in the comment section..
I would recommend watching the video before reading the comment section.
Learn, study, understand your craft. Backwards and forwards. Get the easy stuff right.