Talkative Pilots | Eastern Air Lines Flight 212
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
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Eastern Air Lines Flight 212 was a controlled flight into terrain accident of a McDonnell Douglas DC-9 during approach to Charlotte Douglas International Airport in North Carolina. The incident occurred on September 11, 1974, killing 72 of the 82 people on board. The scheduled flight was from Charleston Municipal Airport to Chicago O'Hare, with an intermediate stop in Charlotte.
Music: The Only Light Is Gone
Artist: Dalo Vian
Listen to the entire music here:
• The Only Light Is Gone...
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My father was one of ten survivors in that accident. He dragged the co-pilot (turns out not only a terrible pilot but an extremely ungrateful SOB) who had two broken legs and a flight attendant (who hadn’t even a scratch) away from the fuselage before it went totally up in flames. My father also passed away on a Sept 11th many years after the accident. To me, he was the original 9/11 hero. All I can say is that Charleston, and I’m sure Charlotte, were never quite the same again.
OMG. I am so sorry that your father went through that . Your father was a hero. My condolences on his passing. Too bad the co-pilot was ungrateful. 😞
Rest In Peace to your amazing Dad. Yes, youre right he was a hero. So sorry for your loss.
God rest your father. He was a true hero.
@Keith Stevens like you’d know.
@Keith Stevens why do you think I’m lying?
I am a licensed pilot and former air traffic controller. I deeply appreciate the time and effort that Joshua puts into these animations. Back in the day, when I was a controller, there was no Internet or software that could produce such fine videos. We would receive paper copies of the NTSB reports, which had a lot of photos and diagrams as well as in-depth information. But reading one of those reports is a world removed from being able to view a visualization of the incident/accident. Thank you, Joshua, for bringing these animations to us.
@sambrooks7510: Q- I realize there was pilot distraction involved in this event and no equipment can substitute for training and alertness but if the military can operate with GCA and PAR, train it's pilots and controllers and Radar operators in the use of that equipment, why cannot large civilian airports adopt the methods, and procedures to train and install the same equipment, Ground Controlled Approach-- Precision Approach Radar ?
@@danjarvis6980 The FAA isn't going to spend money on equipment and training of personnel for GCA operations. That would run into a huge chunk of money.
Working a PAR as a controller requires training and proficiency. Flying a PAR requires training and experience that the average private pilot wouldn't have. Commercial pilots, many of whom are ex-military, would as a group probably do better, but the FAA wouldn't expend the requisite funds to install such systems nationwide just for occasional use by that group. Terminal air traffic control facilities usually do have non-precision (ASR) approaches available, but those simply require the controller to advise the pilot of his heading relative to the final approach course, his distance from the runway and the recommended altitude for each mile on final approach.
I think he does really a great job, should be recognized not only here on UA-cam
My cousin, Deanne Tracy, was the passenger who died six days after the crash, succumbing to burns over 90% of her body. She was 17 years old. It was devastating for our family. From what I hear, her boyfriend was never the same. If I remember correctly, not only was the "non-sterile" cockpit an issue, but also the synthetic clothing popular in the 70's that was highly flammable, making the burns sustained by survivors even worse. It really hurts the heart to have a family member taken away in such a preventable way. Prayers for all those on Flight 212.
Sorry for your loss.
That sounds so awful. Thanks for sharing here and keeping her memory alive.
God Bless your family Mam. What a devastating loss foe all of you
Non-sterile cockpit is right. Having animated discussions regarding politics (barf), and pre-owned automobiles while attempting to locate the airport is pretty egregious ~
When dozens of lives are in your hands, PAY ATTENTION.
Scrote mcspraynerd
That’s why I’m never flying a commercial jet.. It’s so stressful for me to just think that the lives of hundreds of people are in your hands. It’s pressuring…
Just one life would be enough to pay attention but I’m being pedantic and I agree with you
My stepfather worked for Eastern and volunteered to help "clean up" the crash site (that was a different day - 1974). When he came home in the afternoon the first thing he wanted was a drink (not water) and he told us that many people survived the crash but were killed by a flash fire because their hands were frozen in the position of trying to protect their face. Tragic.
People need to take seriously the responsibility of operating a vehicle - including a car - even if they are naturally good at it. This happens everyday in cars and people lose loved ones.
I had to google Carowinds Tower for a visual. While doing so I found it was built a year before the accident in 1973. Due to its height and being recently build may explain why it became a talking point. Thanks for another great video, Allec
I had to Google it too.
The Carowinds Tower was originally sponsored by Eastern Airlines and displayed the company logo at the time of this crash.
I remember this well! We lived right across the highway from where the plane crashed. My mom was driving me to school, we were at the stop sign getting ready to pull out of our neighborhood and the plane went right over us! It felt like I could have reached out and touched it and the sound was deafening!! We knew something wasn't right but in the 70's, we didn't know what had happened until that evening. My dad had heard it and ran out into the field but the crash site was so deep he wasn't able to reach it. THANK GOD because our neighbor did get out to the site and it was so horrific he literally lost his mind. That was a very sad day, one I will never forget. I didn't know the details of why it crashed until now. Thank you for the very detailed video.
My Mother had tickets for this flight, but would not get on a plane. Had to drive dowwn to Charleston to pick her up. The family talked of this for years after.
wow
surrre
@@AAB371 I feel the same way about comments.
Plane: Gives a terrain alarm
Pilot: Disables alarm
Plane: Bro i see a hill am i a joke to you?
the alarm back then was fairly useless. it isn't like today where gpws only warns of real problems most of the time.
@@GigsTaggart It should at least prompt someone to look at their instruments, especially if there's little to no visual reference.
@@unr3alGaming Common sense. I just DO NOT understand what was going on with this experienced captain. Maybe tired or what?
@@unr3alGaming maybe so, but it sounded on every approach. It was a reflex to cancel it. It was effectively meaningless noise to the crew, a nuisance alarm that had lost all meaning.
Alarm fatigue is such a well known problem in many fields that its study has actually become a field in and of itself. It’s come a long way since this crash but it still exists. It falls to equipment manufacturers to study which alarms are silenced and why, and adjust parameters accordingly in order to prevent frequent useless alarms that end up being ignored.
For example, if you have a terrain alarm that sounds every time you’re on approach to land, and you’ve flown 5 thousand flights, you’re obviously going to ignore the hell out of that alarm. It’s almost automatic that your finger goes up to silence it.
Safety here is a lot to do with removing the fallible human factor, which is taking known psychological tendencies and using that knowledge to make smarter alarms. As a general rule, knee jerk blaming of the human element in an accident does not improve future safety. If it’s a training issue that’s one thing, but this was obviously an alarm that was ignored often for some reason, and that’s what needed to be (and probably was) addressed.
Thank you Allec - a very professional report. Too fast, too low, lost their way, couldn’t find the airport at minimums and switching off the ground proximity warning. Really dreadful way to kill most of the people on board.
"All we got to do is find the airport."
Words you don't want to hear from your captain.
That was crazy 😳😊
Sterile Cockpit Rule
@@josephweiss1559 It clearly says at the end of this video, the sterile cockpit rule wasn't established by the FAA until 1981. This crash happened in the early 1970s.
@@donnabaardsen5372 yes but as stated in the pilots couldn’t find the airport… so sterile rule or not, it’s not something you ever want to hear from a flight crew..
Your point is moot
@@donnabaardsen5372 That is true but some airlines at that time had the rule in place and even before this in their policies and company handbook. It would be interesting to know about them at the time, they were called different things depending on the carrier.
Once again, professionals forget to be aware of the most basic parameters of flight: airspeed, altitude, sink rate, and where the hell are we? Unbelievable.
@Paul Kolodner
BINGO I kept saying why aren't you guys focusing on your flight level and altitude!
Yes when no one is flying the plane then they are in big trouble.
I think they both had some kind of sense that their situational awareness was shoddy. It may have been in both of their heads to do a go around, but neither wanted to explain to the other why.
Having worked around pilots for years, it really isn't that unbelievable, unfortunately.
I am a licensed pilot and former air traffic controller. It appears that some professional pilots may not be proficient in basic seat-of-the-pants flying skills. I have viewed or read many post-accident investigations that revealed that the cause of the accident was pilot error related to an apparent lack of proficiency in those skills. It is my concern that over-reliance on today's automation may tend to lead to an erosion of "needle, ball and airspeed" awareness as well as a complacent feeling that if something is amiss, the automation will catch it. I say these things, of course, without intent to disparage any pilot or airline - they are simply observations.
Thanks Allec for another educational video on a crash. THATS why there has to be sterile cockpit during critical flight phases such as starting and landing. For exchange of recreational matters they can meet after work.
Another excellent video! On top of the simulation, finding all those photos for afterwards, selecting them and putting them in order has got to be a lot of work, plus the narrative -- then putting it out here on UA-cam to have the world critique your efforts . . . You do a great job!
As for the accident -- unstabilized approach, VFR in the fog, non-stetile cockpit, potent confusion over exact position and altimeter reading . . . well, not to surprising what happened. In most accidents there's a chain of events that all have to happen for the accident to occur. Of course, in this case, it's 1974 and a lot of things we expect as a matter of course simply weren't there yet--Mode S, EGPWS, GPS, etc (for those not all that familiar with aviation, Mode S is an expanded automatic radar-based communication system that helps identify the aircraft and esp. its altitude to air traffic controllers; EPGWS is Expanded Ground Proximity Warning System, an even more enhanced version of the very early ground warning system that this aircraft had; EGPWS not only looks downward, but ahead as well, to warn the crew to "PULL UP (WHOOP WHOOP) PULL UP" if they're about to fly into something; I'm going to assume most people know what GPS is). Commercial aviation has come a long ways over the last 50 years or so; they were doing their best back then, but a lot of very smart folks have made a lot of contributions to make air travel even safer over the years. (But even so, flying an unstabilized approach is still a recipe for disaster.)
Among the fatalities were the vice president for academic affairs of the Medical University of South Carolina, James William Colbert Jr. Television personality Stephen Colbert has spoken candidly about the loss of his father and two brothers in the crash.
Carowinds is the amusement park that straddles the border of the Carolinas, on the outskirts of Charlotte.
Great job, Allec!!!
Fly the aircraft and quit dreaming of Carowinds... First things first.
I was 11 years old when this happened. Jim lived in our neighborhood, Shiloh Hills in Kennesaw Ga. Several Eastern pilots lived there including my Father who was also an Eastern DC-9 Pilot. I never thought about the dangers of bad weather or worried about my Dad until this crash. Sad day........
That music is so beautiful..God rest the souls who passed in this terrible accident.
As always Allec thanks for sharing and always professionally done 💯♥️
Carolina Skytower. The Carolina Skytower is one of Carowinds' original attractions, opening on March 31, 1973, with the rest of the park. This ride is perfect for families, as it features an air-conditioned cabin that travels up a 262-foot tower.
Great job in production and the topic idea itself AJI !
It still amazes every time I come across one of these Distraction-Not paying attention accidents. Not one, but two professionals at the height of a great flying career: their life work in what they love (or did love), continuous training from the most proficient and qualified resources the world has seen at the time, and at the top of their game. The Best of the Best. A little ole general aviation pilot like me just looks on in wonder and awe, dreaming of commanding one of those DC-9's. I did dream. And I still do.
But this one flight they don't set the altimeter properly and then don't watch the darn thing? Or they just set it wrong to begin with. The terrain alarm sounded and it still didn't clue either of them. So perhaps the altimeter probably was displaying close to where they thought they should be?
How could this happen??? Talking or not, you've got two pro's. Why not? There are two super pilots in the seats. There's only two seats in the front of a DC-9 and they're kinda close together. They talk because they are used to this, they talk because that's what we do. They talk because we're people. We're thinking about things. You don't just get into an airplane with a crew and not say anything. You shake hands with your Captain. Good morning, Captain. It's another beautiful day here at 330 am. Want me to do the Pre-Flight, sir? I've got a new flashlight! My wife bought it for me. And it so it goes. After we complete the first steps of the trip we're thinking about getting there. We're thinking about things that come to mind. We know what the hell we are doing. We can handle anything that comes our way. This baby is almost brand new. She's got everything a pilot could want, that a pilot could ever want. Flies like a dream. Power galore, no noisy vibrations from propellers - this is a jet baby! Streak across the sky. Time to drop down now. Brief the approach. Set the approach up, we're good. Fly the approach. I mean, we do this every day. Early morning can be foggy. Can be really foggy. Who cares? We're pro's and we'll get to the runway at minimums. Heck, we could get to the runway with a 50' ceiling much less minimums, right? I can land this thing on a dime. I can fly better than an autopilot. Because we are the pro's. Do it the same every time. Every time the same thing gets kinda boring. Eight thousand hours, three thousand hours. Same thing every day does get old. Where is that goal I was striving for all these years of my youth? I'm there now, what's next. Mind wanders.
Amidst the boredom of repetition, even in the amazement of being the Best of the Best, something is overlooked. Something pretty important. Something huge. Turns out it is one of the Basic fundamentals that is missed. It's like the snake on your pathway right in front of you waiting to strike but you just don't see it. You looked, yes. But you did not see. You see but you do not comprehend. You don't see it because you are not looking for it.
Miss a nuance detail less than perfect, you may be okay. Miss a BASIC building block: huge probability the whole endeavor bound to collapse like a house of cards. That rule is true for anything we do in life.
Remember it folks.
Two pro's in the seats. Yet neither of you see the deadly snake. Why? Perhaps you silently have confidence that your crew mate next to you is on the look out for danger signs. I can relax my troubled mind and allow my thoughts to go to a happy place for awhile. We're fine. We do this everyday. We'll get there in a little bit. There's two of us, what could go wrong? And so it goes that the danger is there but unobserved. Perhaps because the snake was in the pathway already previously traveled and now forgotten. Unknown dangers, unknown risks are hard to manage successfully. So my question to all is: At what point in this flight did the fatal error occur?
I remember that day well. I was living in Charlotte at the time. I tuned in my police radio to the frequency they were using for the incident. Very tragic and disturbing to hear of the loss of life. Body parts were commingled into body bags to take to the morgue. 😢
I lived in Charlotte back then also. Worked at the fruehauf (tractor/trailer) factory only about a mile from the crash site. Was back there in a visit about 20 years ago. That site is all apartments now.
I saw these aircraft MANY times growing up in Atlanta in the 1960's-70's. RIP to all, and great post as always!
I worked for Flying Tigers at LAX back in the 70s and we were Easterns Air Cargo agents and ground handed their B-727QC freighters. When they would call in on Airinc we in the operations office gave them a altimeter reading at field elevation. This was so they could set one altimeter to elevation above sea level and the other to elevation above the ground. We always thought this was kinda crazy and would lead to a possible miscalculation by the flight crew. It didn’t matter much at LAX as it was only about 120 feet above sea level but some airports are hundreds if not thousands of feet above see level. I had totally forgot about that practice at Eastern until I watched the video.
My husband and I went to the crash site this past September 11th on the 48th anniversary of the crash. It's really sad that there is no memorial for those who died and survived, especially since there are 2 other plane crashes with memorials in Charlotte. I would like to change that! I've heard other people have tried in the past to no avail which I find disheartening considering 72 people died!
Another notable mention concerning the crash of flight 212 and why it should have a memorial is how the long term legacy of this distracted disaster changed the aviation industry when the FAA enacted a new regulation called the Sterile Cockpit Rule. This prohibits pilots and crew to speak of anything other than their flight and anything pertaining to their flight, keeping the cockpit clear of any other unnecessary distractions. It's part of aviation history and therefore should be part of it's legacy memorialized.
My old man is a retired captain, every time he sees something in one of these scenarios he will either say "What on earth are these people doing?! They're supposed to be professional pilots!" or if the flight crew are killed in an accident along with passengers caused by their own ineptitude he'll say "Well, at least they did the proper thing and died so they can't harm anyone else"
I was there that day shortly after the crash. Every time I see Mr.Colbert on T.V. I feel so sorry for him. My airline and my fellow pilots let him down.
Great to see Eastern colors on an airplane. Especially all those parked at the teminal.
Great vlog as always! This accident mirrors the BU239 accident from Dec.23rd 1972. It was the first fatal crash of a Fokker F-28. Keep up the good work!
Great video Allec, thank you very much. May all the victims of this tragedy rest in peace 🙏
Thankyou for making these videos! your videos are one of the first things that got me into aviation. I always put myself in the pilots shoes and think "what couldve i done better".
i hope your flight trainning is going well Joshua!
Personally, I am about to take my PPL checkride
9/11/1974
Eastern 212
Route: Charleston-Charlotte
Future route: Chicago
Captain: James Reeves, 49, 8876h
FO: James Daniels Jr, 36, 3016h
On Board: 82
Age: 5
Type: DC-9-31
The plane crashed into the forest, killing 87% of everyone on board, Only one attendant was miraculously unharmed There were 2 other survivors but they only lived 3 and 6 days apiece
The co-pilot survived. I'd really like to know what happened to him afterwards. A total of 69 passengers survived.
@@donnabaardsen5372 You misread
So is this the Cliff Notes of the video And your point is…….
I'm going to be completely truthful, I honestly believed that the sterile cockpit rule was in place before this crash and was surprised when I learned that this crash was one of the reasons that the rule was put into place
@B.T.
I think some airlines DID have a rule such as this (might have been named different things depending on the airline) in the USA. But seriously just common sense should tell you that during take off and landing, and other events such as bad weather, you should REFRAIN from unnecessary conversation in the cockpit! Same applies in your car with a passenger.
I'm going to be completely truthful? Nice for a change.
My best friend growing up dad was a pilot for Eastern during this time. I just asked him about this crash and he did not know these pilots but remembers lots of rule changes after it. He said that the sterile cockpit was a company rule later before the FAA made it a rule but before that it was kind of up to the Captain. He had just made Captain around this time but he does not remember if it was before or after this crash. He said most of the Captains he worked with were very professional and rarely had private or off topic conversations while flying.
@@earlhuff7847 Bingo, the reason they didn't NEED a sterile cockpit rule or policy was because as professional pilots they didn't NEED to be forced to observe what should be common sense.
The PSA 182 crash in Sep 1978 was probably the straw leading to the rule. They were talking all kinds of stuff on final. And possibly hungover from the very late night before.
I was a very junior copilot with British European Airways when this was reported in our monthly “horror comic”. This was during the fallout from the Watergate scandal a few months before Nixon resigned. This was one of the topics being discussed by this crew for much of the available CVR data. The transcripts of the infamous Nixon tapes were littered with “expletives deleted”. My recollection of this accident report is that the last words of the pilot were “Now all we’ve got to do is find the - (expletive deleted) - airport”.
Another notable one was the 747 driver at Madrid relying to the GPWS alert with “Shut up Gringo” just before they hit the cumulogranite. 27/11/1983
Allec should show the September 11, 1994 plane crash into the White House. I lived across the road from the Harford County Airport in Aldino, Maryland where the plane took off from
I remember that. As I recall it crashed on the front lawn and Bill Clinton wasn’t there. I don’t recall if it was intentional or not.
This is the crash that killed Stephen Colbert’s Father and two of his older brothers. He discusses it in his recent Oprah one-on-one; nearly 50 years later to see the sadness wash over him as he talks about that day is utterly heartbreaking.
And all because of these dumb assholes in the cockpit. As a European watching these videos I'm often shocked about how dangerous flying was in the US just because so many pilots were unfit for the job.
@Dennis Wilson , Stevi is not alone. I’m not sure why so many people struggle to show or feel empathy for another human being and their sufferings. It could be our digitized, no human contact world; it could be he’s a kid and hasn’t developed that emotion, or it could be that he’s as you described. It is sad to see.
@Stevi Robinson Making ridiculous, childish comments like that will get you more comments than you think you can handle.
Go visit a graveyard and play nasty there; preferably after midnight.
If you think the deceased of famous people don't deserve more sympathy than the other crash victims, try saying that.
@Dennis Wilson Scary thing is, I know two people just like that. One served in the Army and one went on to be a cop. Makes you wonder.
I had been waiting for one of the channels to cover this flight.
It's ironic that the tower at Carowinds was sponsored at the time by Eastern Airlines. The tower is still there, but Eastern is long gone.
Yes, that is unbelievably ironic. 🙄
Watching this content while I am having a domestic flight next week. 😥
We have far better commercial flight crew training now, better GPWS, TCAS, to help to somewhat lessen the probability that an incident similar to this would occur today.
May the force be with you, Vgee. Things are done better these days. The casual pilots are dead or retired…
How the Captain lived to fly 8876 hours is beyond me. But then again this accident took place in 1974 and this was the typical SOP 'shoot from the hip cockpit culture' back then. When I started flying back in the late 60's every cockpit was pretty much like this - not enough technology to keep your head buried in the instrument panel and "sterile cockpits" were only as sterile as the Captain decided they would be.
These were two experienced pilots who knew to focus on getting their plane safely on the ground and leave their personal conversations for later when on they were on the ground and off duty.
I flew for American in the 80s and we similarly used QFE (height above airport) set in our primary altitude indicator with QNH (height above sea level) set in the secondary. Technique was to fly the secondary (QNH) when following ATC instructions, then fly primary (QFE) for the actual instrument approach, essentially making the primary a poor-man's radio altimeter...this evolved long before RA's were in use. But the procedures were drilled in us and everyone was competent in this use, it actually has some advantages. If in fact the Capt was confused over which altimeter to be using then he was beyond hope (which may be the case).
Lone Palm ... I'm a private pilot in the UK (since 1975 and now out of hours) and we always used QFE for the airports/fields we were visiting and QNH for the cruise. I went up with an instructor not so long back as, as I said, I am out of hours, and we didn't use QFE at all, only QNH ... I can't remember what the instructor said apart from where he congratulated me on completing the whole flight from t/o to landing with no input from him. I was proud of that after not flying for around 20 years, I have to admit. I remembered the PAT and APT stuff when he asked me to climb and then descend ... the rest came naturally.
@@thepianoman1010 Using QFE and QNH is almost always riskier. There’s been a lot of research over the years and most good operators have rightly abandoned QFE. The RAF even got rid of it and had an almost immediate reduction in hull losses.
@@peteconrad2077 Thanks for your reply Pete ... I assume you are saying, perhaps correctly, that pilots were failing to input the correct QFE figure into their altimeter thus receiving an incorrect altitude above the airfield, particularly dangerous in IMC.
@@thepianoman1010 it’s partly that. But having two different references has multiple additional opportunities for error. I know if no responsible operator that uses QFE. only the Russians and Chinese do it at a national level and I think the Chinese are going QNH.
@@peteconrad2077 Well, that's the only reason I can see for it ... to input the wrong QFE number!
Good video as usual. Had a friend of,mine sister was killed in that crash
Yet another good job Allec!
1974 was a bad year for American airline crashes just in the last few months of the year. There was TWA flight 841 which crashed just three days before this one (terrorist bomb) , Northwest flight 6231 and TWA flight 514 in December of the same year. Both flights had no survivors.
Too bad the sterile cockpit rule wasn't in effect but rather still seven years into the future.
One flight attendant survived uninjured ! 8:57
Yes, and I'd also like to know what happened to the co-pilot who survived. Fired?
@Frank Blangeard
I wonder if she ever did an interview about this accident?
@@watershed44 Some do and others do their best to forget about such a moment as the massive loss of life would be difficult to cope with. If it were me I would be asking myself why did I live and all but nine others didn't. The first officer that survived would be 84 now and probably just as soon forget about it.
@@donnabaardsen5372 He died not too long ago. Do a search on his obit.
For the longest time, up to the mid-1990s, there was a section of a DC-9 out in a field off of Old Dowd Rd to the west of Charlotte-Douglas Airport. I often wondered if it was part of that wreckage that was never disposed of. Or perhaps maybe it was just a section of another DC-9 that the fire department had used for training? Either case, we went to it once and noticed it was painted in faded Eastern livery. The seats inside that section also had interiors indicative of the 1960s-1970s etc. When the new runway 18R/36L was added, all of this was taken up in the construction.
In the mid-80s, and a mile or so outside the Salt Lake Int'l Airport there was a section of airplane that firefighters used for practice (cockpit and back maybe 10 windows). Not sure what kind of airplane. It was burned a deep black. My recollection is that we'd see it when driving the back roads (I think? ... for obvious reasons, this wouldn't have been along the main roads to the airport) to drop my father off for work trips. I'm grateful my young mind never connected that burned-out fuselage to the fact that we were putting my dad on an airplane.
As the old saying goes, eyes on the road.
I worked at Eastern, so did my dad. EAL had the coolest paint scheme in the industry.
And maybe he dumbest fools as captains.
The first officer who survived the crash must selling hotdogs & hamburgers by the road side today
he is dead
May all who lost their lives rest in peace.
The way they immediately silenced that ground warning alarm tells me something here needed to be addressed by the aircraft manufacturer. Maybe it was going off during every landing or something. Alarms that go off too often and/or direct your attention unnecessarily toward something you already know are dangerous because you naturally begin to ignore them.
Alarm fatigue is a legit problem for in aviation and other fields as well. When people are ignoring alarms, it’s no longer knee jerk reaction to just blame that person, but instead the manufacturers have to question why certain alarms are silenced and attempt to adjust the alarm parameter to only trigger when actually necessary.
I believe GPWS was brand new around this time. I recall being on training flight for recalled F/Os in Feb. 1975 in a DC8-61 on our way to ACY to get our 3&3 T/O & Landings. We were just off the coast of NJ VFR and the Chief Pilot(Check Airman) wanted to test the different modes so we were down below 200’ R/A. Joe the recalled pilot in right seat had missed the ground school, simulator, and hadn’t flown an airplane since he was furloughed four years earlier. The powers decided he should get his landings on this flight so they would not have to fly a second training flight. Dumb idea and Joe did get his own training flight after ground school and simulator. I just stood in the cockpit watching ships go by and hearing a light airplane screaming to ACY that there was a big airplane ditching!
1) Is there a way to find out what kind of compensation is paid out to the families of the dead and injured passengers and crew, in this and the other passenger airline accidents?
2) Is there a way of finding out if the compensation pay out is altered/affected by the results of the NTSB crash investigation findings?
3) I am curious to know how the value of a human life is calculated by insurance companies and or authorities in these situations/circumstances?
Yes, great questions. Also, I'd like to know what happened to the co-pilot who survived. We can assume he was fired?
@stevirobinson1664 You aren't playing with a full deck, are you?
Why so preoccupied with the dollar value to human life?
Interesting. The names of the crew or at least of the captain have been changed. It is for the better. The captain had flown me to USAF basic training in 1970. I recognized his name when the newspaper reported the accident. I will keep his name confidential. Happy Landings.
The cockpit conversation was surreal. Was this in a local bar?
Fantastic video
A totally avoidable accident 😞
My father was a commercial airline pilot during that time period Whenever there was an accident we always got concerned My dad told me that Eastern pilots always had an attitude They were better than everybody else
So did Clipper(Pan Am) pilots. Ironically, both airlines ceased operations the same year in 1991.
Allec you're a sick young man!
I wonder how many incidents there have been when hundreds of people narrowly escaped death when the pilots suddenly started paying attention - and no one ever knew.
The sterile cockpit rule is still violated far too frequently. The Comair pilots in Kentucky picked the wrong runway because they were chatting away. These guys were casual plane jockeys. When you're flying a commercial aircraft, your number one priority is to not fly the plane into the ground! In borderline IMC, altitude should never be ambiguous and dear God, ignoring a ground proximity warning is the pinnacle of stupidity! "What probably went through the Captain's mind..." Well, we'll never know because what went through his mind was his feet. Really stupid flying borne of arrogance and overconfidence.
Focus & concentration is very important especially when you are in an aircraft cockpit!
I’m surprised no one commented on altimeters set to both Qnh and Qfe. I would think that could be very confusing. Do any airlines still use Qfe? I’ve flown for multiple operators and airlines and never encountered standard procedures to use Qfe altimeter settings.
American was using QFE up until the late 1990s. I remember riding an MD-80 jump seat with them into KPSP and they briefed me on that fact. Had never seen that procedure prior to that day.
Same as you mention, I’ve never worked for an airline that used QFE. I do recall AAL had tailored charts to reflect QFE altitudes on approaches-thereby eliminating any confusion between a QFE vs QNH minimum. I agree, it seems like an odd procedure, and I’m not sure I’d be completely comfortable with it.
Having said that, common procedure now is to execute a missed approach if a terrain or obstacle warning sounds when flying an approach in IMC or at night. These days, with EGPWS, our situational awareness is far superior than it was in the 1970s. Still, sterile cockpit rules should always be adhered to regardless of meteorological or lighting conditions. It’s just good practice. Sadly, as we know in aviation, most rules are “written in blood.”
Anyway, good comment and good video. B737 captain here… 20k hours, 12k hours in the B737, 30+ years of professional flying. Stay safe everyone.
I see a few other people who’ve lost relatives and friends. A man who was a friend of my father and his wife attended my first wedding died in this accident. I didn’t know him well, but still. He was employed by CBS news, and I think his name was John Merriman. None of my relations are alive anymore so I can’t be 100% certain.
Violating the sterile cockpit rules, and having such a casual approach to such an important task, is always a recipe for disaster.
I like how you made the crash suddenly. Nobody would’ve expected it, nor should we.
The sad results here and many like this is why the airlines got away from "drive and dive" approach procedures. I was employed by Eastern for a very short time, then the strike happened and I never went back.
QNF vs QFE - do airline pilots still mix the settings on various altimeters? That sounds confusing! Meanwhile I couldn’t find a VOR 36 plate for Charlotte on ForeFlight. I was wondering how they knew how far out they were on the approach. No discussion of MDA - minimum descent altitude. They also didn’t mention a DME (distance measuring equipment) value. Were those devices even available in 1974?
I don't think the Captain had a clue to his position on that approach.
Is it just me or did Eastern just seem to have an awful lot of crashes? I know growing up I always kept hearing their name.
there just used to be a lot more crashes.
No more than any other airline.
In the 1970s there were a lot of crashes and it didn't improve much in the 1980s either. Nine months after this crash was Eastern flight 66 that crashed in NYC due to a microburst which wasn't even in the dictionary yet. It was just referred to as wind shear or a severe thunderstorm.
Eastern had several accidents like this - all related to poor cockpit resource management. Eastern 401 was the same damn thing, obsessed by a landing gear warning light, three pilots took hands off and let the plane descend, killing everyone. NO ONE was flying that plane.
In this case, one pilot WAS flying, but not neither pilot was paying full attention to the approach.
Clearly, Eastern had cultural and training issues.
When the captain has 8000 hours and the copilot 3000 hours you sense trouble is coming
Did the surviving pilot face any charges for his incompetence?
Yes, that's what I'd like to know.
As far as I know, to advance the cause the of flying safety, NTSB incident investigation results cannot be used to file criminal charges against the flight crew. It takes a deliberate specific criminal act investigated by the FBI, significantly related to the incident, to have criminal charges filed against a flight crew member.
@Eric Widder
I think back then the degree of shame he had to live with was probably the worst sentence he could face for his negligence. He should have told the capt, to stop talking and focus on the job at hand.
Talking to a Captain like that back then would have backfired. They all thought they were Gods. This was one of the main reasons behind the later CRM crew resource management being put in place…
@@davidhoffman1278 So Criminal Negligence can't apply to US airline pilots? That doesn't give me lots of confidence in our transportation system.
Good thing they established the sterile cockpit rule. I'd prefer my pilots to be focusing on flying the plane rather than discussing politics during the crucial takeoff and landing phases of the flight.
There are pilots who still break the sterile cockpit rules
That day it was very foggy that morning I was in the third grade on my way to school when that happened😢😢
Shouldn’t the control tower have noticed they were too low to reach the runway?
I love watching this series but at the same time it drives me nuts, so frustrating to see a chain of events or poor judgement, overreactions, miscommunications. I'm surprised crashes don't happen more often. Some pilots I wouldn't let drive my car.
5:20 This shows the QNH set to Standard ( 1013 or 29.92) and the altitude of 3,060 feet. I thought it was going to be a classic forgetting to set the altimeter when descending through transition accident, but no.
Either the airfield QNH at the time was 1013 or the video graphics were incorrect.
Your explanations used to be much less difficult to follow. This explanation seemed to be directed to the AOPA crowd. Still a fan tho.
"All We got to do is find this Airport" He said while flying several hundred feet below where his altitude should have been- Co-pilot must have had a serious case of survivors guilt after this tragedy
I was at first concerned when I saw the #1 fire handle was in the discharge position thinking an engine fire was about to happen. Later it was in normal position.
As usual, of course the FAA taking its time (6 years) to requied something so important. So sad. But nice picture of the then Eastern mixed fleet in ATL.
Just a reminder that we're all humans.. and we all make mistakes.. sometimes it just means that your hamburger has onions on it when it shouldn't.. other times..
Those annoying terrain alarms! These two pilots must have had a bug up their ass for each other and got so distracted that they managed to bring this airplane in for a fully controlled crash 3 miles short of the runway!
This really tells you the reason for keeping a sterile cockpit . If you get into a debate about anything but flying. Your mind is still distracted about the debate whether you realize it or not. All focus when you step into the cockpit must be on proper operation of the aircraft, From time you step in till the time you step out. No one can think of two things at once. If you want to talk about things not related to flying, save it for the ground. IMO
This crash occurred on September 11th as well
It’s impossible to say how many lives have been saved by “Sterile Cockpit”, but I’d wager the number is huge. Imagine how many lives might be saved if we could get automobile and truck drivers to act more responsibly and practice it as well.
Ads every FOUR MINUTES? You tube blows.
Don't worry! Flying is the safest form of transportation.
This would have never happened on my watch.
Good for you!
It only took the FAA eleven years to react to this wreck and propose a sterile cockpit at crucial times. That's moving quickly. 😐
This illustrates tragically why a sterile cockpit is critical and why the rule was implemented. They simply weren't paying attention.
Most of some pilots acknowledge the atc words
One way to make sure pilots behave themselves in regard to sterile cockpit process during critical flight operations is to fine their airline heavily if crashes were caused by such violations. Let's say a flat $100 million dollars fine. You'll see how quickly and vigorously the airlines would enforce this rule if it comes to them losing so much money as they don't really care about lives lost.
What a stupid comment. An accident costs an airline many times that already. It would also do nothing to improve the attentiveness of pilots.
@peteconrad2077 you might feel differently if you and your family were on that flight and didn't make it. The point is, airlines lose planes in crashes but it still doesn't prevent them from losing more planes to accidents subsequently due to their pilots negligence. Eastern Airlines also lost an L-1011 in the Florida Everglades due to pilots' inattention. That aircraft had a 4 member flight crew in the cockpit at the time of the crash. No one one was paying attention when the aircraft dipped below the prescribed altitude.
this crash had nothing to do with "sterile cockpit" and everything to do with the misunderstanding of how to set or read an altimeter
'Sterile Cockpit' would've probably prevented this accident. All "FAA rules and procedures are written in blood..."
Two of Stephen Colbert’s brothers and his father lost their lives in that crash.
I just read about that, that’s awful.
Thanks Wikipedia
Good
THE Steven Colbert from TV? Wow!
@@john.t645 GOOD ????????
Colorful Morning Sky At 0:29
I actually remember when this crash happened. It was one of the primary reasons for the implementation of the "sterile cockpit" rule, although there were others, the most infamous of which was the 1973 Texas International crash. Allec, you really should cover that one! The cockpit voice recording is ... really something. www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR7404.pdf
Thanks for the link - I read the whole report. It’s really grim - keep low to try and find your location and avoid the weather; get lost and fly straight into a “stuffed cloud”. 😢
First thing is to listen the atc carefully