10 Doctor Who Plot Holes
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- Do you know any more Doctor Who plot holes?
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The Angels Take Manhatten ones keep me up at night...
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This is so epic :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd #crispyforshowrunner
Also ‘That which holds an image of an angel becomes itself an angel’ Think of how many post cards the statue of liberty is on, the whole world would be attacked…
Oh my goodness I never thought of it like that haha
In the first ever episode Rose says “I’ll have to tell his mum” when she thinks mickey is dead. But then in the cyberman two parter in season 2 she says he was raised by his gran because his mum died. So why would she tell his mum if she’s dead? Nobody ever talks about it and it’s bugged me for 15 years 😂
I realised it too, it's an odd one for sure :)
Let it go, man
Yeah, Also doomsday it's explained earlier by the doctor that Pete roses dad was covered in void stuff, so when he rescues rose why doesn't he get pulled into the void?
Actually she says his mother couldn't cope after Mickeys dad left so his gran took him in
Easy explanation: Jackie didn’t know his mother was gone
The castle doesn’t “reset” everything is left the way it is because the last version of the Doctor left it that way. Things DO change gradually. The painting of Clara is indicated to have gradually deteriorated over the millennia for instance.
@Tori - ah ok. So it’s a mix. But not just the wall that doesn’t reset.
the bigger question is who is sweeping up all those diamonds?
Late to the party, but here's a take that almost works - Its sort of a self-contained physical puzzle that is reset over a period of time which is perceived as but isn't an actual time loop. His actions, insofar as they do not affect the structure itself, are unchanged (leaving his clothes behind, the skull, so on - I'd add here by my logic its implied he is the one who originally created the painting of clara, but i have no idea where he got the materials to do so). The building/maze is consistently reset to the moment he arrived (returns its spin, fixes the dug up dirt, puts the shovel back, repairs the broken window, creates a new flower), but any outside input remains unaltered. The exit doesn't because it is separate and apart from the maze itself; its a built in backdoor he's supposed to bypass by answering its question that I gathered the timelords added into the physical maze, so it doesn't get repaired when the maze is.
@@phil1500 surely the diamond wall is being changed and not reset therefore the debris shouldn't be cleaned up by an invisible Hoover
@@purefoldnz3070 Okay.. yeah i got this... h/o. Okay okay, after the wall begins to degrade (which we don't really get to see other than in the montage) the doctor starts picking up the pieces to clean up after himself as he drags himself back to the reset switch so the zombie thing doesn't catch on in the next set before he does. There that... well that's something isn't it
I think the reapers are described in the epeisode as bacteria who have come to sterilise the wound, if you think about that as if it were a real wound on a human that doesn't always happen naturally so I'd guess the reapers are more like opportunistic predators who target wounds in time but don't necessarily show up in every wound in time
I like this
That’s kind of the bases I was thinking like different situations equal different reactions
Cool theory. Would like to see the reapers again though.
@@CrispyPro It was always my theory that in Series 1, the occurrence of reapers would be much more common than usual because of all the damage that had been done in the then-recent Time War. Time was slowly mending, but still with plenty of "open wounds" for Reapers to enter and feed on and presumably multiply in. As these wounds healed, the Reapers shrank in numbers, making any future timeline disruptions and paradoxes less likely to attract their attention as quickly. So many paradoxes in the Smith Era were resolved in the same episodes they happened, so presumably the Reapers with their diminished population didn't get there in "time".
I guess Orson Pink is from an alternate future in which Danny and Clara didn't die. Time is wibbly wobbly so that individual or the events he was involved in don't necessarily cease to exist, especially since he is a time traveller himself.
Multiverse of Whoness
Orson Pink time remnant confirmed
Clara becomes a pseudo time lord (though with a nonbeating heart). Maybe she goes back and pulls danny out the moment before he dies and they have kids - idk how she does that without a heartbeat, but she can move around and stuff so why not
Time can be rewritten
Plot holes would annoy me in any other shows but I have been watching Doctor Who for 17 years and I honestly couldn’t care less because it’s my favourite.
Great video as always Crispy.
Thanks mate!
My theory about the regeneration energy in Angels take Manhattan, when River saved his life in Lets Kill Hitler she used all the energy needed to save him and a little bit more. Not enough for a whole new life but just enough for little things such as healing a hand.
I love this theory. If I become next showrunner this will be canon
@@CrispyPro #Crispyforshowrunner
Another good theory I've heard is that in their final lives Time Lords still have some regeneration energy left inside them, just not enough for a full regeneration.
When in doubt just call it a Deus Ex Moffat.
oh plus now that Chibnall added the Timeless Children rubbish the Doctor has no regeneration limits. He's a magical non binary magical interdimensional space baby! (which may or may not be retconned very soon)
Haha Moffat talked about how the Name of the Doctor has no actual ending but drew people's attention away using the cliffhanger of John Hurt
typical moffat BS. only about half his stuff is worth watching. still... he was better than chibnall
Re: Angels Take Manhattan, I recall the Doctor didn't want to go back in time to save Amy and Rory because he thought that their deaths were a fixed point in time (which meant their timelines couldn't be messed with)? But when you think about it, he only saw their gravestone. What's to stop him from going back to the 1930s, picking up Amy and Rory, and then travelling to the 1980s (or whenever they were supposed to 'die') and leaving a fake gravestone there?
I realised last time I watched it that the paradox in Father's Day wasn't that Rose saved her dad, but that in acting on the second visit she prevented the first version of herself making the trip to come try again.
I'm pretty sure she could have gotten away with saving her dad if she had done it the first time, although the doc would have probably kicked her out.
I think it's cool to imagine that Time Lords can have an amount of regeneration stored but not necessarily the exact amount of 12 regenerations. So maybe they just have a little extra stored but not enough for a 13th regeneration.
Angels for Manhatten for me, I've always just seen it as a somewhat alternative timeline where the Angels have taken over because yes it doesn't make sense so O just see it as alternate New York.
Also Orson Pink I just see as time changing. I guess you could argue that Danny died because of what Clara was saying over the phone which she was saying because of all the time travel and stuff she's done so she incidentally changed time.
@@chanceneck8072 I don't know why everyone thinks that he doesn't have limited lives. Literally when I first watched that episode I thought they established that they made the Doctor have 13 lives as well when they reverted him into a child to be the first Doctor so everything still makes sense. Yet everyone claims that the Doctor has infinite lives now.
@@chanceneck8072 You completely misread my point. I said that after all the timeless child lives and the Doctor working for the Division and the Fugitive Doctor, they made the Doctor have 13 lives also when they reverted him to a child to be the 1st Doctor.
@@chanceneck8072 You might be right. It's possible when I watched it I just immediately assumed that so when I left the episode that is what I was left thinking. So maybe they don't explain it but they never explain the technical details of how they do a lot of things anyway.
@@chanceneck8072 That's interesting. I don't necessarily think it was retconned. Like the Doctor probably still remembers it. But him seeing his grave and that he died on Trenzalore was from him protecting the town of Christmas but when Clara begged the Time Lords to help, only because the Doctor and Clara had seen the future that he would die there, they changed time so he never died there anymore. So not necessarily retconned but just time was changed from the events of the story.
@@chanceneck8072 exactly. The doctor is a magic interdimensional space baby who was the foundation of the Timelords that they made work as a field agent. Its like if George Washington worked for the CIA. Utter insanity
For the regenerations one I don't think they say its disabled because of the poison. It could just be saying that it is disabled because he's out of regenerations. Also the energy he gives to River in the angels ep is extra left over from what River gave to him.
I don't mind plot holes too much. I'd rather have plot holes than have somebody who decides we need to fix every single plot hole in the show. (This is NOT aimed at you, Crispy Pro!). And Moffat's Gigantic Statue of Liberty was just bloody stupid. (I'm an American, but I love that saying).
One very problematic plothole caused by _The Timeless Children_ comes from the retcon that regeneration *is not* a result of exposure to the Time Vortex, but rather it's a genetic trait that was initially stolen, and future generations inherit it from their Gallifreyan parents. Which would mean that River is... um...
River being time lord adjacent for being born in the tardis never made much sense anyway
Those Sonic Screwdriver replica toys are so awesome, especially that blue 12th one in which I also have myself (I bought mine on Amazon back in about early May 2017)
on the gallifrey question, when the doctor enters the cybus earth in s2 he says that time lords used to be able to just travel between parallel worlds with ease when gallifrey was still around but maybe now its back even in a parallel universe he can again?
No mention of how Pete managed to catch Rose when falling into the void despite the fact he JUST got coated in void stuff after travelling through it AGAIN? And then stand there for a good few seconds, and got knocked by Rose flying at pretty decent speeds, and THEN vanishes?? It doesn't make sense!!
Woah
ive been on a rewatch and this puzzled me as well , and also how did he know to go back
@@CrispyPro but if you want a headcanon for how the Doctor gave River regens in Angels Take Manhattan, I consider it leftover from the energy she gave him in Let's Kill Hitler
So happy for all this content!
This is literally the most in years! So happy, you're my favourite who tuber!
No 4 - There are three reasons he can't go see them. The paradoxes it would cause in the damaged space/time around New York. The fact Amy chooses to have a life wherever with Rory deciding the issue of if they will keep travelling with him once and for all - she chose - it would not be good for him too then force himself back into their lives, and lastly he reads Amy's last page which is clear from her words that they never met again and as this episode establishes once you know your own personal history its fixed.
And in the superhero episode he is on the roof making a device to patch up the damage he did to New York in Angels, Amy and Rory are long dead so he isn't going to be messing up the fixed point any more, and his own personal time line its been over a thousand years since Angels before he can risk going back to do some repairs (or as its the Doctor we're talking about he just forget he'd done it until then).
In Hell Bent Gallifrey is not in the pocket universe any more, they have got out and are hiding away at the end of the universe. The only explanation we get for how they got out was that 'Time Lords are really smart' and that the Doctor didn't ask them how because they'd only have been smug about it. Chibnall has either retconned this and put them back in the pocket universe, or set his destruction by the Master of Gallifrey before Hell Bent takes place, somehow.
Heaven Sent:
The rooms don't reset instantly and they all reset to the point when 12 arrived maybe the wall simply doesn't reset before a new copy of Twelve is made and as such is still partly broken still when he reaches the teleport room so it saves at the point of the next Capaldi stepping out and as such is permanently that amount damaged or more
The transferring of Regen energy opens up a lot of plotholes throughout the entire run:
- Never used on past companions
- Used on Davros by 12 so that he can open his eyes again or some shit
- 12 doesn't use it to cure his own blindness from Oxygen. "Physician, heal thyself." "Nah, I think I'll surrender the entire planet to the Monks instead"
Regeneration can't cure blindness otherwise with 42 why didn't 10 use it to heal the sun in his eyes?.
Another reason as 12 is the first of new regeneration cycle we don't know how many regenerations the timelords gave him, So he might of not wanted to use it for this reason as well.
@@luciadwhpanimallover9222 he literally cures davros’s blindness in Witch’s Familiar
Only because he was forced to by Davros as he knew Davroses plan was to take regeneration from him. If he didn’t do it he would of been exterminated by the daleks
@@luciadwhpanimallover9222 but the ability still exists is what I'm saying. You literally said "Regeneration can't cure blindness"
@@justinnyugen7015 he didn't cure Davros's blindness because he wasn't blind, well at least he wasn't in that story because which in itself is a huge plot hole, the doctor gave him some regeneration energy to wake him up a bit so he would have the strength to see the sunrise
Im glad you are back man, vids are always great fun!
Thank you! Really appreciate it haha
While not said, I think the supporting cast lessened the explosion in turn left, knowing they couldn’t stop it.
For number 1 on your plot hole list, maybe they never did get out and that explain a the whole Timeless Child plotline with Jo's forgotten regen and covers the retrospective plot hole it causes at Trenselor when the Timelords had to give the 11th Doctor a while new set of regens plus it can be used to explain how Tennant comes back and can be with Donna whose brain would explode if she ever remembers anything about him, plus her grandad as Bernard Cribbins is supposed to be back too. Total timeline reset. And it could all easily be linked back to The Moment and War Doctor without too much twisting about and reset the counts if they wanted to as the count is off with Jo's Doctor. I like your de-regeneration theory and that would fit with the glimpses in the trailer of Jodie's hands sort of disintegrating in a way we've never seen in a regen before. The Master could have grabbed 11 and Clara in the timeline thingy and snatched them from inside it into the Matrix which he's corrupted and manipulated into everything we've seen since so this BBC centenary special coming reveals that nothing since 11 going in to rescuing Clara has been real. That also allows RTD to wipe the Timeless Child from canon if he wanted to so he doesn't have to work it in anymore... or maybe Chibnal always intended to wipe it as he's a bigger for massive twists in his writing!
I've also had the thought of mayb r Ncuti is a way of keeping the next actual Doctor a secret in a time when it's almost impossible... he's a short regen all announced and seeming legit just to throw off attention from the next "long term" actor cast because they could film a reasonable amount without people realising that way. I'm probably wrong as I was really holding out hope that the next Doctor would be Michael Sheen and my way makes that still possible lol. I just hope RTD does something about the music as it's been sorely lacking since Murray Gold stopped composing! We need tracks like Vale Decem (10th Doctor regeneration), The Long Song (Rings of Akhaten when the Doctor gives it all his memories), I Am The Doctor (11th's theme) and so many more! Murray's music was like another character (and if you've ever heard his radio play Kafka The Musical, starting David Tennant, especially the hauntingly beautiful final monologue, you'll understand why because damn, Murray can WRITE as well as compose! Ges a born storyteller! The music is something that's been sorely lacking in the Chibnall era and needs fixing. And considering how much he works with RTD plus having had a break from the format of how DW needed him to work, I've allowed a little hope to creep in.
Oh and the access to Gallifrey plot hole is easily explained in the Timeless Child storyline where they access it. The border thingy (it's been a while since I watched it and I've only seen Jodie's era twice unlike the rest of "new Who") 13th Doctor & fam go through must have been there for ages and just because the human at the border had never seen it lead to the same place twice doesn't mean it never goes to the same place more than once... especially when a Time Lord, and/or time travellers (they have void stuff on them) are in close proximity. In fact it was probably created when the Timelords sent regens through a crack into our universe to 11 on Trenselor... you can't go opening cracks in the universe without consequences. In the story we've been presented, that border is like gift as it allowed surviving humans to escape but it could be a sign of damage.
Oh and the wall in the prison plot hole is easy... you can't put something/someone in a prison without an entrance which can't keep resetting like the rest of the place as I assume it's been doing ever since it was created. So once the Doctor was in there the entrance was the wall, which I assume could be accessed again if necessary from the outside, and I'm sure it seemed secure to them. They just forgot how stubborn and determined the Doctor can be, which is simply the usual flaw in thinking (or design) of bad guys on DW.
And actually, I've been to NYC (I'm from the UK) a few times and it's not as much of "the city that never sleeps" as you think so as it was night time the Statue of Liberty could possibly have moved without being seen briefly and maybe the reason it stopped long enough to be all fierce looking was because it got quantum locked again by someone local but as the Angels were all over the place there they could sneak up and zap anyone looking at "the big boss lady" lol. I have a bigger Angels plot hole which has killed me for ages! In Blink they were defeated by getting them all around the Tardis and dematerialising so they quantum locked each other. Fabulous. The inevitable weakness exploited by the Doctor and co right? So why in Time of the Angels & Flesh and Stone were they clearly all moving in one direction so only the back row could move but they were all able to move, especially on the ship when they grab the Doctor's jacket??! I howled "lazy writing!" (and more) at the screen when I first saw that episode and it still makes me grumpy every time I watch it! That's my number 1 plot hole as I can usually come up with a wobbly wobbly timey wimey reason for everything else, as you may have noticed lol . Anyway, I think the issue of what the Statue of Liberty is made of was covered in those 2 episodes when they brought up what is the image of an Angel is an Angel because the Statue must have been made based on an Angel and therefore became one and got quantum locked. They don't actually move until they have prey/are woken up by someone so she just stood there until she was needed in the fight against the Doctor & co. She's also why NYC was a pain to land on... She's a huge wobbly wobbly timer wimey event once she woke up which I think she did (for the purposes of this theory) before they arrived.
I haven't quite sussed why the Doctor hasn't gone back to see them sort out first thoughts are whoever the Angels are feeding on their quantum lives, it would be dangerous for the Doctor (all time wimey) to go there. Or his presence would alert the Angels, who would hunt them all across time if they got out as the Doctor told Rory, and so it's too dangerous to Rory and Amy.
Hope some of my rambling solutions take the sting out of your plotholes as at least showing answer are possible if you bend your brain enough. I can't see any way of fixing my number 1 plot hole above and it ruins my frequent rewatch binges, which have to start from Rose and go right through, hence only having seen Jodie's tenure twice so far. Though having spent the day on UA-cam watching various Who related videos like yours I see another rewatch starting tonight! Fantastic!
(PS Sorry about the LONG comment, but you did ask for answers!)
In "Turn Left" there's another plot hole: How did the Doctor die? Because how could he have met the giant spider without Donna being teleported into the TARDIS?
The sonic being pointed at people was explained as hitting the right vibrational frequency of that species which when done is kinda like an opera singer shattering glass with her voice except it’s rending the flesh and bones of its targets if the frequency is high enough if not it’d just cause pain.
My theory about Orson Pink is that now that Clara has a time machine, she went back to before Danny Pink died and took him on some trips through time. And they did it. A lot. And they had a bunch of kids and had a lifetime together before they went on to their fates.
wouldnt she be infertile?
@@alejandrogangotena9033 no heartbeat, no cycle, no nothing etc i assume, so yeah..
Fathers Day, to me, is a double paradox. It's not that rose stopped her dad from dying, she also stopped past rose going to watch again to save him. Hope that makes sense? So to me its the fact it was so complex. That's my head cannon anyway
10. As Turn Left was based on Donnas memories, she may not have know if the Titanic would have destroyed the Earth or just London, and either the Soothsayer kept it only yo London to keep torturing Donna or Donna resisted attempts to destroy the Earth.
9. Im fair certain Amy said in 'Let's Kill Hitler' the sonic is point and think, so that's how it works, we know that the Doctor has lots of time outside of the adventures we see as he outlines in shorts such as 'Bad Night' and 'Good Night', so maybe he uses some of that time to tinker with the sonic. In 'Day of the moon', idk, possible trying to reduce the amount of electricity that the silence are drawing upon.
8. The part where the Doctor heals River, idk, maybe he only has a small amount left which is used for his longevity or healing minor scraps. River and the tessalector, maybe not have known about the war doctor or that david tennent regenerated into himself, so miscounted.
7. ua-cam.com/video/g6zDYFbE9NI/v-deo.html (WhoCulture, 5:20) explains this one.
6. Ok, even I can't explain this one.
5. Possible explanations (head canon for myself) either not enough of them to cover every paradox, as all of time in the universe is a lot to cover, especially with the amount of time travelers we have seen, or maybe some events such as the end of time damaging the time vortex, like we see in the series 5 -7a title sequences killed most if not all the reapers.
4. Maybe Danny had siblings or cousins who had a descendent that looked similar to Danny. The Doctor in that episode confused the orphanage in that episode with being in Clara's past, even though in the previous series he studied her whole life, that's a bigger plot hole in my opinion.
3. Like you said I just attributed it to the Confession Dial bringing the Doctor through, like the Moment, another Time Lord artifact, pulling the 10th and 11th through the Time Lock surrounding the Time War.
2. Again headcannon, Another torture by Rassilson, telling the Doctor, you've been here this long and only achieved this much in escape, give up and tell us what you know.
1. Yeah, I've always thought that one strange too, O would guess maybe another 'portal' but we see it shut behind 11, why/how would another open. Also why was the Great Intelligence and Clara scattered through the time line but 11 wasn't?
Here’s how I solve 11 and 12 using regeneration energy: when 10 regenerated into himself some residual regeneration energy remained in his body (as he didn’t have to rewrite his biology) throughout current and future regenerations for him to slowly chip away at and use.
Moffat explained Heaven Sent. The whole castle construction that resets is inside the Confession Dial. The "wall" is not part of the workings of the dial, it's the literal outer edge of the dial - just the boundary between the dial and the outside world and thus isn't part of the reset mechanism.
RE: The Sonic Scrrewdriver, in the Lazarus Experiment episode, the Doctor tells Martha "Martha, setting 54. Hurry." before throwing her the sonic screwdriver. This directly contrasts the "point and think" idea we were told later in the show.
I wouldn't put it past 10 to make stuff up like "setting 54" just to sound more serious, when it's just a "point and think" thing
These are different sonic screwdrivers. Yeah same software as per Day of the Doctor, but who's to say the hardware's the same? Maybe 11's has point-and-think, whereas 10's had settings?
About doctor giving River regeneration energy in Angels Take Manhattan, let's just say that they can't fully regenerste at 13th reincarnation, but can produce a bit
And about Hell Bent, they mention in the episode that they returned and are hiding in the end of the universe, basically like time of the doctor but they didn't need confirmation of it being a correct universe
For number 3 the problem was that they couldn’t find gallifrey not couldn’t get to it
Almost all of these are from Moffat era lol love this video!
I suppose you could say with 'Heaven Sent' and the wall not resetting is simply because the wall was the anchor. That was considered the doorway into exiting the Confessional Dial. Perhaps it's similar to a signal of sorts. The close you move away, the weaker the signal gets. The closer you are to leave, the weaker the signal gets. So eventually, when you're at the very last room, the signal is too weak to perform its automated room service. Alongside the fact the wall was an anchor keeping both worlds together. If that reset, the actual ability to walk through could be compromised. Which would be a bad thing because then the Time Lords wouldn't ever have been able to get the Doctor out. Knowing full well he wouldn't talk about the Hybrid if it wasn't to their faces.
My read on the Angels Take Manhattan regeneration energy is that it's either the very last traces of energy from his own regeneration cycle, or some that it was left over from River bringing him back to life in Let's Kill Hitler.
I think that regenoration (I know I spelled it wrong shut up) he gave to river was the some of what she gave to him.
I didn't think anything reset in Heaven Sent except the doctor? - the skulls are still there, the clothes are still there by the fire, the chalk writing is still there
I can't remember if the doctor fills in the hole he dug in the garden - if he doesn't, that's an issue
I thought I was the only one who thought of the Titian and turn left thing when it only distoys London
Great video, the X files music had my heart jump
Gonna attempt to provide a potential explanation for all of these.
10. Perhaps due to the Doctor dying, the Titanic was affected. Maybe at some point off screen between The Runaway Bride and Voyage of the Damned, the Doctor had a part to play in some sort of technological advancement that contributed to the Titanic's potential to destroy the Earth, so maybe without that contribution, the effect wasn't nearly as big.
9. The inconsistencies with the sonic screwdriver are largely down to it needing to perform a certain task depending on what the writer wants to happen. In-universe, the Doctor has several different models, perhaps they all have different functions and ways to use them.
8. In the case of the Doctor saying that he wouldn't survive because regeneration is disabled, this could be explained by trauma - he's tried so hard to reject the War Doctor, it's possible he's convinced himself that he didn't exist and fully believes that he could regenerate. As for how he healed River's wrist, it has long been speculated that even though Time Lords cannot regenerate once the limit is up, they still have regeneration energy left to heal minor injuries, maybe even enough to start regenerating, just not enough to complete and survive the process.
7. The Statue of Liberty being a Weeping Angel, I personally take no issue with whatsoever - the Weeping Angels move at an insanely fast speed, it could have easily gone from its original position to Winter Quay in a matter of nanoseconds, but we hear it stomping for quite a while - stomping, or stopping? People ARE looking at it, hence why it isn't able to get there instantly. It's taking advantage of the tiny fractional seconds that everybody has their eyes off it to move. Plus, she's a big girl, she might have weird superpowers. Also, the fact that it's made of copper is entirely irrelevant. Blink ends with a montage of several statues on Earth, implying any of them could be Weeping Angels, some of them being metallic, they don't all need to be stone. As for how a manmade statue became a Weeping Angel, maybe that story just hasn't been written yet. This is the thing with a lot of "plot holes", they require you to that completely possible things can't possibly have happened in order for them to actually be plot holes. If you just open your mind to all sorts of wacky possibilities, anything can have an answer.
6. I think you touched on the answer when you talked about the Doctor moving on - a big part of 7a was Amy and Rory trying to balance real life and Doctor life, so I think this could perhaps just be the Doctor lying to make the decision for them, giving them the chance to live without him. After all, letting them go about their lives not expecting him to return is kinder than promising to return and not being able to.
5. The Reapers specifically got involved because Pete Tyler didn't die - the whole point of them is to "reap" whoever should be dead. The specific scenario of someone who should have died being saved is what requires their presence, and that is a scenario that simply hasn't happened since then. Most paradoxes we see revolve around people dying prematurely or the bootstrap paradox or something. I can't think of an instance other than Pete Tyler where someone paradoxically got saved when they should have died. In conclusion - not a plot hole.
4. At the time we met Orson, Clara and Danny were still alive, Orson came from the potential future in which Danny and Clara had kids. We know the Doctor can visit potential futures, nothing we see from the future is absolutely secure. Look at Orphan 55 for example, the Doctor says that future can be averted. The temporal tipping point that determined whether or not Orson existed or not was when Danny chose not to return to life in Death in Heaven - had Danny chose to come back instead of resurrect the boy he killed, Orson's existence would have been secured. An alternative explanation is that he wasn't directly descended from Clara and Danny, but relatives of them. Danny grew up in a children's home - perhaps he had a twin brother and his parents couldn't cope with two children, so gave one of them up, and it's actually Danny's brother who was the progenitor for Orson Pink (accounting for his resemblance to Danny), and he coincidentally had a child with a time-travelling relative of Clara (accounting for his seemingly familial connection to Clara). Outlandish maybe, but not impossible.
3. Here is an exchange from Hell Bent itself:
CLARA: I thought you said Gallifrey was frozen in another dimension?
DOCTOR: Well, they must have unfrozen it and come back.
CLARA: How?
DOCTOR: I didn't ask. It would make them feel clever.
Although it's never explained HOW the Time Lords escaped their pocket dimension, the fact of the matter is they DID. So this isn't a plot hole (rather an unanswered question).
2. A simple one. The wall doesn't reset, because it isn't part of the castle.
1. This is another example of an unanswered question, not a plot hole. Plot holes are things that defy previously established lore, not things that we simply don't have the answers to.
the sonic is a really op device but I feel like waving it around like the doc does is using an advanced form of radar or sonar to scan the surroundings, and the doctor wiggling the sonic at the silence is either using sonic waves to interfere with the silence's senses making it harder for them to actually land a hit, or even funnier is the doctor just does it because they dunno what else to do and want to feel like they're helping lmao
anyway with the regeneration stuff I feel like maybe the time lords have a little extra juice left in them on their final life as a sort of last-resort mechanic, meaning that the doc COULD have used a bit of regen energy to supercharge their healing and recover but the judas tree or whatever it's called counteracts that, and that's how they've got the tiniest little bit of regen energy left to heal river
and orson pink could be the result of a non-fixed timeline which I have to admit, for the moffatt era is kinda weird not to have a 'fixed point!!1!' for main characters' deaths, so because the doctor hadn't travelled to a point on his OWN personal timestream where he knows both danny and clara are dead, he's able to access this timeline where orson exists. actually now I think about that it's a good explanation for all sorts of little plot holes, isn't it?
I really like thinking up reasons for these things. of course it's always disappointing that they're not necessarily present in the writing itself, but I feel like if they did that it would be a little less fun, y'know?
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols!"
When the sonic screwdriver was introduced it was naught but a screwdriver, but in later iterations of the Doctor it became more swiss army knife instead of just a screwdriver. in the name of the Doctor with the time stream you must remember one thing that affects it as a whole "Bad Wolf" or Rose Tyler in the time vortex. She essentially made clara what she is to survive in the time stream. She seems to also to have made the Doctor as well. how they got out is easily explained when talking of gallifreans. Timestreams are like memories and getting out is as easy as going in. Though every being was so curious about the actual name of the Doctor likely to hold some power over him, it is forgotten that the Doctor like most gallifreans tend to choose the name the universe calls them when looking in the schism, but for the Doctor it was more it was a pact a promise. which is why the biggest secret of the Doctor wasn't his name but the incarnation that supposedly broke the promise set so long ago.
What if the reapers only show up when the paradox effects the whole universe? For example rose only chose to go with the doctor when he says the tardis can also travel through time, he even asks her out right if this is why she came with him in the episode which she essentially confirms. Meaning had Pete not died Rose would not have gone with the doctor and ultimately would not have become the bad wolf, basically a God like entity that has saved the universe several times and had already put themselves in multiple points in time. The problem was less about Pete living and more about preventing the larger universe ending paradox that would have occurred in its wake
I mean for going back and getting Rory and Amiee at a later date..it's said constantly through many faces the doctor doesn't like good byes. Maybe not a plot hole and more of a personal character flaw of the doctor
The Doctor getting revived from River's kiss had nothing to do do with his regeneration energy in my opinion. It was River giving him some of hers. She was a 'child of the Tardis,' the term that was once used if I recall, so it was the Tardis, and not the Doctor that caused River to even have that energy.
The doctor being out of regenerations and using regeneration energy I have an answer. The whole timeless child thing, the doctor probably dosent have the limit of regenerations (although they didn't know) so he just winged it and healed River.
At this point he probably thought he had a bit left from the half regeneration in journeys end
Which means the timelords giving him more regenerations was just not needed. Although the current timelords that sent the energy may not have known the dirty secrets
What iv seen about the wall it's technically outside etje castle so it dosent reset. But unsure how true as need yo go back and re watch it been a while
I mean if only the Doctor had tried to get to Amy and Rory, crying while River tried to calm him, banging on the TARDIS trying to get it to go... that would have been way more cathartic. I mean it would have been awful. But it would have been a good emotional response. You know?
I think in Angels Take Manhattan, it’s not so much that he can’t/won’t go back to 1929, I think it’s more that him seeing their gravestones and age of death made it a fixed point for him, so he couldn’t remove them from that timeline on the off chance they died while on an adventure with him (which would destroy reality since the fixed point would be broken)
The wall in heaven sent could be a barrier that dont reset with everything else
another thing with the falling titanic why was only her bracelet working not all the others who died to try and get them back with the safety system
In The Return of Doctor Mysterio, the Doctor is in New York at the start of the episode to try and go back to meet Amy & Rory
#8: The Doctor has limitless regenerations because they're the Timeless Child.
I think you'll enjoy the UA-cam series broke canon by DAVIS.
It talks about all the weird canon in the show.
They mentioned in Hell Bent that the Timelords returned gallifrey to its original point in space but where forced to hide it near the end of the universe for their own safety
The Angels Plot Hole : An angel got inside Amy s mind and made her count to tease her . Angel Bob said it was just fun . So statue of Liberty was a mental projection so that Rory can taste better or something.
With manhatten. The doctor could still have residual regeneration energy, not enough to fully regenerate but perhaps enough to survive an almost fatal injury without assistance. I doubt after the 12th time a timelord has nothing left, it's all gone.
2ndly, the paradox caused by Amy and Rory when they jumped off the building likely would've damaged the area far more than the angels ever did. Meaning even a vortex manipulator couldn't navigate through.
With the doctor being unable to go back, yeah okay sure. River does we know that, she has to write a book after all.
In Mysterio the doctor is in New York, it starts with him trying to fix the issues he caused. Why? Why now. Seems a bit coincidental it's immediately after his last night with River before her death. I like to think the Doctor is trying to see the Ponds to tell them of Rivers death.
(Personally would love a spinoff short series of 6-10 episodes of Capaldi and River during their night on Durilliam (nothing says they have to stay) with the final scene being capaldi informing the ponds. A final farewell, perhaps when they're old. Could introduce a Child as well that becomes a future companion)
Sooo the the Reaper plot hole… I just kinda imagine it’s similar to bacteria to a wound? (Lol) like it can show up, but not always?
River is also now a big plot hole… if every timelord now gets regeneration energy from the doctor, it doesn’t make sense for river to be able to regenerate now?
My Theory of the paradox creatures as seen she saves her dads life there for creating a new timeline that never existed and was never meant to exist there for creating the creatures. They are like death there appear to keep the dead. Dead
For the Statue of Liberty, maybe the Angels have to *know* you’re looking at them - that’s how Blink implies it. The Angels can’t move when you’re looking at them… and they know when you are. Because they freeze…
But what happens if they don’t *know* they’re being looked at? Could they move then?
So if the Statue of Liberty doesn’t know it’s being looked at… maybe it’s unaffected?
Do the Angels have to have the *conscious knowledge* that they’re being looked at for the “they freeze when you look at them” effect to work?
That’s certainly what Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone implies. They start moving as soon as they realise Amy is only *pretending* too look at them and has her eyes closed.
The moment they realise (or, at least, believe) she isn’t looking at them, they realise they can move…
With Gallifrey returning in Hell Bent, since that episode happens a few billion years in the future I always assumed that the Doctor had just showed up on Gallifrey at some point after it was brought back into the main universe and we would see how that actually happened in a later episode. Unfortunately that later episode hasn't actually happened yet and it kind of seems like it never will, but I don't really see Gallifrey being back as that significant of an inconsistency.
Clara asks 12 i though gallifrey was frozen in time. 12 replies: well they must of unfrozen it somehow. So the answer to that is the timelords unfroze it.
In Name of The Doctor, the TARDIS did NOT want to land on Trenzalore bc it was where the doctor died and his entire timeline was out on display so it was super complicated. The TARDIS would not enter the planet but the Doctor forced it to land by making it fall. How is New York possibly more complicated than Trenzalore but he can travel to Trenzalore and not back to New York?
My head cannon for the reapers is that the time lords came back and started stopping them after series 1… pretty meh but head cannon
Pink I can do: Clara has her own Tardis and is taking the long way home lol
Didn't Moffat confirm that Orson Pink is a lateral descendant and not a direct descendant?
If the Toclafane coming to Earth was erased from history, who killed President Winters?
as much issues that the Chibnall era has, thank god it fixed some of these plot holes. Because of the timeless children, matt giving regen energy to river makes sense. Because of orphan 55 the doctor says its a possible future which I take as the reason for Orson Pink existing. For Amy and Rory I always just thought the doctor couldn't figure out when they are there which is why he says he wont be able to find them. My favourite answer for any doctor who plot hole which makes no sense is... its a time travel show with very little rules, so you can fill in the gaps yourself.
I feel you may be giving chibnall credit he doesn't deserve possible futures have always been a thing, and weren't introduced in orphan 55, the doctor says in the episode he knows where amy and rory are and river even sees them to get the book published and while the timeless children may fix the regeneration energy thing it causes a hell of a lot more plotholes, why is ruth's TARDIS a phone box if she comes before hartnell? Why did the doctor's regenerations not kick in when Smith's body started to run thin (Established by the war doctor's regeneration). Why did the Timelords give Smith an extra regeneration cycle if he never needed one. Why is it the Doctor appears as timelord on a scanner (The End Of The World as an example)
The plotholes that bother me (off the top of my head)
-When Clara was stuck inside a Dalek in season 9, she tried to say "I am human" but the machine would automatically translate to "I am a Dalek". But Oswin Oswald (who was literally a Dalek) was able to say "I am not a Dalek I am human"
-In the same episode : How did Missy survive the Daleks? I don't think that was ever explained.
-How did the last master survive? The last time we saw Missy she was killed and couldn't regenerate. It was obvious we were gonna see the master again but they didn't evene explain it. Also why is this new master evil, when Missy was about to join the Doctor ?
-The Ruth Doctor from the Timeless Child arc is supposed to be a past life of the Doctor. Why would her name be The Doctor, since that's a name the current Doctor chose for themself? Did she just happen to pick the same name ?
-The 13th Doctor doing a triple genocide in the Season 13 finale. Just goes against everything se know about the character.
Missy was still wearing the vortex manipulator at the time. So when she got trapped by the daleks, she said i have a really clever plan. We already saw her plan work before. So she just repeated her plan but most likely ended up in the area where she would get executed hence why we don't see her until extremis after.
Youre acting like the doctor has never committed genocide before. When they have... many times.
The Unquiet Dead
The Girl in the fireplace
The age of steel
Doomsday
The Runaway bride
The Shakespeare code
Last of the time Lords
Day of the moon
Nightmare in Silver
The time of the doctor
Deep breath
Robot of sheer wood
Flatline
The doctor falls
@@mrdr0161 I never said anything about genocide
i had to stop watching this halfway through this is all im gonna think about upon rewatch
What is the angles copied the statue then just send it to the doctor. Like a seeking missle....or the team did little research and everyone really did think the statue was stone...😅
The very simple answer for 11 having regeneration disabled, and being able to give regeneration energy in Angels Take Manhattan is because the war doctor was supposed to be 9, and the war Doctor only existed because Eccleston didn't return
The Reapers not showing up again is solely a fault of new showrunners not reusing them.
Commenting for the algorithm
So many more, and your questions are valid… sadly, I have no answers for you.
"You don't have a channel for 9 years and dedicate it to a show you don't like"
You should take a look at the Star Wars fanbase
the timeless children is more of singularity than a plot hole* (that means its shit)
2. Rooms are not reset.That's all.
Orson Pink won't exist after Clara and Danny's death
#CrispyForShowrunner
Pretty sure if the doctor visited Amy it would of ripped NY apart
I have to admit I love doctor who with all my hearts but I can’t help but notice the plot holes at times. A lot of them I can ignore but others I can’t. So I’m going to share a few I have noticed.
1. In asylum of the Daleks (a criminally underrated story in my opinion) the dalek prime minister says to the doctor that it is offensive for the Daleks to destroy such Devine perfection. This is literally contradicted by the plot of the episode which is to destroy the Dalek asylum so if they don’t like killing Daleks why do they want to destroy the planet in the first place. The answer is because they fear them but it still doesn’t make sense. Daleks kill each other all the time and don’t really care lol 😂.
2. In heaven sent (overrated episode in my opinion) the doctor keeps breaking the wall with his fist 🤜🏻, now Ik it’s supposed to be a very beautiful scene about him breaking through his grief at the loss of clara but why didn’t he use the shovel that he used in the garden to help break the wall. Now Ik people will say because the shovel would have broken but you can clearly see that it breaks the doctors fist 🤜🏻 as he punches it continuously. Furthermore if the entire place resets then so would the shovel and he could just take it with him. For me it just sort of drags out the plot and pacing unnecessarily. Though I’ll admit the episode is still a good way of tracing the viewer how to deal with grief. Though it’s completely undone in the next story.
These are just two of the plot holes I have noticed there are more that I just can’t remember rn lol 😂. Then again non of them bother me too much as I love the show so much.
You're 8th plot hole isn't a plot hole lol. I mean the later one you mentioned, the one where you said 11th shouldn't have regeneration energy....
He does have regeneration energy.... Just not enough to regenerate but enough to heal "smaller" wounds. That's how he's able to live for a 1,000 year in war in Trenzalore. He's ages slowly because he's got enough regeneration energy to keep him alive for a thousand year. It was said that he chose a younger body each time he regenerated for that very reason.
So he just spent little bit of his remaining regeneration energy on River to heal her broken wrist.
But was that *really* a plot hole? For starters, at that point Moffat hadn't yet said that 10 and 10², aka real 11, counted as 2 regens, and just because you regenerate doesn't mean you cease having regen energy, right? For example, 10 regrew his hand, River regen waved some nazis, etc. Now, obviously this was later on, not immediately after, but also remember that River poured ALL of her remaining regen energy into 11 a little prior to that, saving him from the poison of the Judas Tree, and possible leaving some small remainder of itself within him, a small reservoir he could, idk, heal Rivers wrist with? So, I mean, not really a plot hole. Just not specifically answered. Sometimes Doctor Who assumes you have an attention span, and a lot of the people watching it these days clearly don't...
Maybe Danny cheated on Clara lol
Explanations:
10: Yes, total miscalculation on Max's part.
9: Captain Jack's sonic blaster establishes that sonic devices can be used as weapons. The Doctor chooses to use theirs mainly as a tool, but has been known to use it as something of a stun gun. It does use a "psychic interface," which means you point and think to make it work.
8: The Doctor had a little energy either naturally in his body or from River's sacrifice, just not enough to fully regenerate his entire body.
7: The Statue of Liberty was actually closed for renovation for much of 1938, so no one was visiting it. Then, it just left Liberty Island, jumped in the harbor, ducked under the water, made it's way up the Hudson, and in the dead of night, when no one was looking, ran a couple blocks over to the Winter Quay. Angels are, after all, shown to be pretty quick sometimes.
6: the prologue for "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" was set in 1992. There were no dates on Amy and Rory's graves, only ages, which, if they were sent back to the 1930s, means they died somewhere around the late 1980s / early 1990s. So, there's some wiggle room. Besides, I don't think that the Doctor can never visit New York during the bulk of the 20th Century. He just can't visit Amy and Rory.
5: Reapers are like vultures. Reapers feed on dying time (paradoxes), but not all dying time is necessarily going to be eaten by the Reapers, just like not all dead animals are going to be eaten by vultures. Beyond that, I can't think of too many paradoxes that fit the exact specifications of the one in "Father's Day" i.e. a character changes an event which either erases their existence or negates their reason for going back in time in the first place. The closest thing would be "The Wedding of River Song" which, as it involved changing a fixed point in time and therefore unraveling the ENTIRE Web of Time, was probably way too big of a paradox for the Reapers who are established to mainly focus on paradoxes which destroy time in more localized areas of time and space.
4: Moffat has suggested that Clara simply sought out a relative of Danny's, gave him the toy soldier, and told him about time travel and what a hero Danny was. Orson was their descendant.
3: It's explicitly stated multiple times in "Hell Bent" that the Time Lords got out of the pocket universe and placed themselves at the far end of the spacetime continuum. Now, some say this doesn't make sense because they were supposed to be frozen in an instance of time like the stasis cubes, but I think "Hell Bent" makes it clear that Time Lords know how to stretch and instant of time out indefinitely as they did with Clara, and it was already established in "The Time of the Doctor" that the Time Lords were functioning perfectly fine on their own in their pocket universe and sending out the "Doctor Who?" message to other universes to try and find out which universe they should enter. When Clara gave that little speech at the end of that episode and the crack disappeared, that was the moment they knew to come back.
2: Only the rooms in the castle reset. The wall was the outside shell of the dial rather than one of the rooms in the castle, so it doesn't reset. Just like how the skulls in the water beneath the castle don't disappear. This was also the reason that the Doctor left the "I am in room 12" clue for himself buried deep underground. It was far enough beneath the castle that it was beyond the reach of the closed energy loop.
1: I think it's pretty clear that the Doctor knew all the rules of navigating a timestream. He went in with full confidence, so I've never questioned his ability to simply get out of it.
1.There are multiple copies of Claira scattered throughout the Doctor's lifetime 1 of them could be related to Pink, or the Doctor could find a wayto save Claira as for Danny no clue.
2. The regenerstion enegy can be awnswered due to the fact he was still the timeless child
3. the Timelord's just found a way to leave thealternate unuverse
Why you hating?
I dont think regeneration is a plot hole anymore. It used to be but I think Timless Child explains it. Doctor always had unlimited regenration. 12 regeneration limit was a law introduced by the Time Lords, so it can be that Doctor could always regenerate but he thought he couldnt because he didnt know his past. He was assuming he was a regular time lord and was bound by the rules.
I was looking for this comment!
yet another reason why all of chibnall's crap with jody should be removed. he ruined the show and the bbc producers let him do it
STOP CRITISCING 12's era. 10's era has a lot more plot holes. 12's things you mentioned of 12's aren't plot holes.
in 10's era, the biggest plot hole is doomsday. It's explained Pete has the void energy covered in just like the rest of his family so when he saves rose how come he didn't get pulled into the void as it got explained earlier that anyone covered in void stuff would be pulled back.
Another plot hole from 10's era:
in daleks on manhattan/evolution of daleks. The daleks try to make human and timelord creatures however in heaven sent 12 explains in respone to hybrid that the daleks would never allow that with the prophercy of the hybrid being dalek and timelord. So why did they try to convert the doctor in dalek of manhattan/evolution of dalek as that was there whole of the daleks purpose back then.
As for 12 visiting new york. The machine on the roof is what allowed 12 to travel to new york as stated by the doctor.
As for Orson. i think it's Rupert grown up as Orson litreally says "What were the chances of you two finding me" Yes we know danny was rupert previously. But he could of had another name before danny and after rupert. Some people change their name more than once.
12 litreally says " the timelords must of unfrozen it". when clara asks the doctor i thought gallifrey was frozen in another time
As for the wall. I believe not all area's reset e.g take the table room where 12 eats soup. That never showed it being reset. So i think the same applies to the diamond wall which is why 12 was able to break through it.
It's literally explained in Doomsday that the cult of skaro aren't normal daleks. They were created to ensure the survival of the daleks under any means necessary. After the time war, they were desperate to carry on the dalek dna and would do anything to achieve its survival.
And you think Orson is Rupert/Danny? You think Danny managed to get a hundred years in the future, have a family, become a fully trained time traveller, get stranded at the end of time, taken back to the 22nd century by the doctor and Clara and magically gets back to the 21st century and somehow forgets every single thing about it all? That sounds ridiculous
Logic and Moffatt - These two things don't mix.
I AGREE with you about pretty much everything you've said. BUT, 1, i actually enjoyed the hell out of the Dr. Mysterio episode and 2, a great many fans, myself included, refuse to acknowledge anything after capaldi's regeneration. chibnall absolutely ruined the series. and unless they retcon everything back to capaldi's last scene, as far as we are concerned, the doctor is dead.
Moffatt had pretty much scrapped the concept of limited regenerations. The Angels Take Manhattan was one of Moffat's low points, amongst many, it was stupid... Like many Moffat era ideas.
Ok Moffat hater