Also watch this video where I have a bit more success with electroplating ua-cam.com/video/xOXaC-Jh70g/v-deo.html Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you) 🎥 All my video gear toms3d.org/my-gear I use Epidemic Sound, sign up for a 30-day free trial here share.epidemicsound.com/MadeWithLayers 🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! ua-cam.com/channels/zUgJrG-w_KQexroYkJR9XQ.html 👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! www.patreon.com/toms3dp
the surface area and distance of your nodes matter alot and link close to the power requirements. also the copper coating your using Ive personally seen alot of issues with. personally I would get a normal paint dilute with tiny bit of water then add powered copper to the mix then use that as your coating. Hope this helps, cant wait for more content
I've never 3D printed anything but I've been a glass artist for years and have done a bit of electroplating I have the same issues where I didn't want to stick to the glass I think the reaction happens but instead of it getting pulled onto the piece it gets pulled off the piece some of the products that I used I just had to use other crap but I found that I needed to primer it to make it stick and hold the object. Also cranking the power up or lower in it can have a huge effect
It really helps to move the part around, make sure the clip that is grabbing the part has the same or worst electrical conductivity as the paint and starting with a low current
Try giving the part extra time to cure and then give it a coat of primer. Not thoroughly cured MSLA resins give off sulfur compounds that interfere with silicone curing among other things. An alternative is giving the part a coat of Inhibit-X before doing the paint
First, you'll need a surface properly prepped to adhere to paint, so likely a high-grit sandpaper since it's a resin model. Second, clean clean clean clean clean it within an inch of its life, never EVER touching it with bare hands because even the tiniest fingerprint can and often WILL come out in the electroplate. Then you'll likely be best served with a good primer, there are even electroplating primers for just this purpose. Again making sure never to touch it bare handed.
You can also use a graphite coating spray instead of copper. Graphite is a relatively good conductor, and I think its also is able to better stick to microabrasions present on the print itself
Peter Brown recently did a project here he painted laser cut wood with a conductive graphite paint before plating it. but helps that wood would hold the paint better in the first place.
Polish the surface after copper spray coating and instead of crocodile clips use copper wire... The current should be between 0.6 to 1 ampere to do it correctly...
A lot of comments have suggested plastic primer, and that definitely will help, but also roughing up the surface (not much though - I reckon even something as fine as 800 grit wet or dry will key the surface enough if the primer is good) will make any paint stick much better.
If the paint starts coming off you must reduce the current (rate of electrolysis, otherwise this will always happen, the car industry has developed techniques to use very high currents, but these are very secret) Many other comments already mentioned it, prime the surface and rough it up by sandblasting, but in my humble opinion, I don't think it will make much of a difference. Apply more coats of copper.
Use a primer designed for plastic adhesion. Then apply multiple, thin coats of the copper coating paint. Or you could have it powder-coated with powdered copper.
Use a coating of graphite prior to dunking the past in the electricity bath. Graphite spray is available in spray cans, but using a graphite paint and applying it with a brush could be more thorough for small intricate builds.
Ive actually found that though it seems more conductive paints like silver, nickel and copper would be better, carbon/graphite seems to be the best. I think the resistance causes the parts to plate more evenly than super conductive coatings. Actually in industry, sometimes they just dust on a super thin layer or graphite and that works. Anway, i have had sucess with plating pla with caopper in a super simple plating bath with graphite shielding paint from mg chemicals.
I'm a Ph.D. chemist. Industrially, electroplating is part science and part magic. Those companies that do it well usually carefully guard the details of how they do it and the industry has many tales of unorthodox ingredients and procedures. If you haven't given up completely, you might read about electroforming, a method jewelers use to create metal coatings on, among other things, carved wax objects. Good luck.
These copper spray paints usually have bad conductivity across the surface. Most of them are designed for emi purposes, where surface conductivity over larger surface areas is not that crucial, just having a certain density of copper particles is usually enough here.
Shake the part in tub of baking soda for awhile. Baking soda is a light abrasive and will sand the parts exterior very very lightly halping the coating to adhere to the part. Will need to rinse with distilled watter or rubbing alcohol. This ticks seemed to work.
How about sandblasting the print before painting so the first layer of paint has more to grab on to? Thanks for sharing your struggle, the journey is more enlightening than the destination
Plating is a pain Buy a book about it and you will be surprised at the results Also you should of used bright acidic copper, did you calculate your surface area for the voltage! The part looks burnt up Copper paint is a pain you can always try silver. Works like a charm
Start with a simpler test form and use graphite paint, white acrylic paint mixed with graphite dust will work. I would probably start testing with PLA and use a butylene/methylene fixing agent to keep the paint on the part.
Would using a filament with metal in it help? I had some pla a while back that had metal in it for magnetism and so you could do rust effects on a print. Maybe having some kind of “metallic” filament could help the plating adhere easier?
I can say much with certainty but what I can say is you definitely have a problem with bonding to the plastic. I'd speculate that the thicker metal coating is just revealing that problem because the coating is now much more rigid and comes of in sheets when scratched. I'd focus on getting better adhesion: try a primer (might need to try a few different ones to find the one that works best). You could also experiment with different printing resins, liqcreate Composite-X naturally has a very slightly rough surface finish, it's expensive and hard to print with but one of my favourite resins. Might work well for this though I cant say for sure.
Thank you for sharing that with us. It holds significant value for many of us to witness both the frustrations and the pursuit of perfection. It makes the journey feel more relatable and encourages us to give it a try ourselves.
You may need to prime or just use another product I've blown glass for years with a torch and we got into painting certain areas of the glass and electroplating pieces had the same issues some of the products just didn't work for me. what's happening is the reaction is happening but instead of sucking metal onto your piece it's sucking metal off your piece you're going to need to prime it with something that's going to make it stick
Funny enough , I had an student working on this and in 4 months we couldn't achieve results like in the youtube videos lol. What we concluded was that the intensity was to strong and the layer of metal was thick and rought... Even with the lowest intensity we could use
I was thinking about that the copper may be too thin and acting as a resistant and heating up the resin underneath. He should try with graphite paint since it has less conductivity.
@@HyrumBurleson I thought you were typically better off using a graphite paint or even better a nickel paint for its higher conductivity. They are hard to get in some countries depending on environmental laws.
It’s because you’re doing it wrong. You need to connect one side of the voltage to your part and the other to the material you’re trying to deposit on the part. Can’t remember which is anode and cathode. You’re shorting the part out.
So many things wrong, not priming the plastic, not using a surround electrode to even out the current density and way to much current for an initial strike
Way to just give up,should keep trying ,its not even that hard i just did my first few electroplated pieces, edit * I stand by this comment I really think you gave up for little reason after a slight failure I been having loads of fun plating 3d prints and other stuff last few weeks
Not only do you need primer but you need to sand it so its a bit ruff and the primer has something to grab prime it sand again as many coats as it takes until smooth then spray the copper
Also watch this video where I have a bit more success with electroplating ua-cam.com/video/xOXaC-Jh70g/v-deo.html
Product links are affiliate links - I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases (at no extra cost to you)
🎥 All my video gear toms3d.org/my-gear
I use Epidemic Sound, sign up for a 30-day free trial here share.epidemicsound.com/MadeWithLayers
🎧 Check out the Meltzone Podcast (with CNC Kitchen)! ua-cam.com/channels/zUgJrG-w_KQexroYkJR9XQ.html
👐 Enjoying the videos? Support my work on Patreon! www.patreon.com/toms3dp
You need to use primer on the print before the cooper, most paints won’t adhere properly to 3D resin by itself
I use Tamiya fine surface primer
Mistakes I saw: No citric acid on the part? No part prep? No coffee filter on the positive copper plates?
the surface area and distance of your nodes matter alot and link close to the power requirements. also the copper coating your using Ive personally seen alot of issues with. personally I would get a normal paint dilute with tiny bit of water then add powered copper to the mix then use that as your coating. Hope this helps, cant wait for more content
I've never 3D printed anything but I've been a glass artist for years and have done a bit of electroplating I have the same issues where I didn't want to stick to the glass I think the reaction happens but instead of it getting pulled onto the piece it gets pulled off the piece some of the products that I used I just had to use other crap but I found that I needed to primer it to make it stick and hold the object. Also cranking the power up or lower in it can have a huge effect
It really helps to move the part around, make sure the clip that is grabbing the part has the same or worst electrical conductivity as the paint and starting with a low current
Integza helping a German 3D Printing Channel. Cool
Oh hey! Integza metal plated a 3d printed rocket nozzle and it worked! He knows what he's talking about.
It also helps if you let run air bubbles in the bath. I mean instead of moving the object.
Try giving the part extra time to cure and then give it a coat of primer. Not thoroughly cured MSLA resins give off sulfur compounds that interfere with silicone curing among other things. An alternative is giving the part a coat of Inhibit-X before doing the paint
you need a binding agent between the copper spray and the model ^^
First, you'll need a surface properly prepped to adhere to paint, so likely a high-grit sandpaper since it's a resin model.
Second, clean clean clean clean clean it within an inch of its life, never EVER touching it with bare hands because even the tiniest fingerprint can and often WILL come out in the electroplate.
Then you'll likely be best served with a good primer, there are even electroplating primers for just this purpose. Again making sure never to touch it bare handed.
You can also use a graphite coating spray instead of copper. Graphite is a relatively good conductor, and I think its also is able to better stick to microabrasions present on the print itself
Peter Brown recently did a project here he painted laser cut wood with a conductive graphite paint before plating it. but helps that wood would hold the paint better in the first place.
thats what ive seen so far and what i suggested as well
According to his Impressum HEN3DRIK lives only ~130KM away from you. Maybe a opportunity to make a collaboration?
Polish the surface after copper spray coating and instead of crocodile clips use copper wire... The current should be between 0.6 to 1 ampere to do it correctly...
A lot of comments have suggested plastic primer, and that definitely will help, but also roughing up the surface (not much though - I reckon even something as fine as 800 grit wet or dry will key the surface enough if the primer is good) will make any paint stick much better.
Such a cool experiment! Good to hear you got it to work eventually …
If the paint starts coming off you must reduce the current (rate of electrolysis, otherwise this will always happen, the car industry has developed techniques to use very high currents, but these are very secret)
Many other comments already mentioned it, prime the surface and rough it up by sandblasting, but in my humble opinion, I don't think it will make much of a difference.
Apply more coats of copper.
Most people I’ve seen use a nickel based paint for the base layer
That’s what he is doing here
@@peterrusanoff1010 he literally said copper
Use a primer designed for plastic adhesion.
Then apply multiple, thin coats of the copper coating paint. Or you could have it powder-coated with powdered copper.
Lightly sand the part or sandblast it, then primer, then conductive paint.
use primer frist before use grafite powder and cover all corner witth a brush or cotton swab
gently sand blast the part before applying the spray coating, might help
I had good results with super fine graphite powder mixed with acrylic paint and a bit of cleaning alcohol. And an airbrush.
Best results with coating resin parts are achieved by vacuum metalization.
Use a coating of graphite prior to dunking the past in the electricity bath. Graphite spray is available in spray cans, but using a graphite paint and applying it with a brush could be more thorough for small intricate builds.
Ive actually found that though it seems more conductive paints like silver, nickel and copper would be better, carbon/graphite seems to be the best. I think the resistance causes the parts to plate more evenly than super conductive coatings. Actually in industry, sometimes they just dust on a super thin layer or graphite and that works. Anway, i have had sucess with plating pla with caopper in a super simple plating bath with graphite shielding paint from mg chemicals.
The plating books I have read support your statement and say to use graphite, but I have no personal experience with it.
I'm a Ph.D. chemist. Industrially, electroplating is part science and part magic. Those companies that do it well usually carefully guard the details of how they do it and the industry has many tales of unorthodox ingredients and procedures.
If you haven't given up completely, you might read about electroforming, a method jewelers use to create metal coatings on, among other things, carved wax objects.
Good luck.
These copper spray paints usually have bad conductivity across the surface. Most of them are designed for emi purposes, where surface conductivity over larger surface areas is not that crucial, just having a certain density of copper particles is usually enough here.
Shake the part in tub of baking soda for awhile. Baking soda is a light abrasive and will sand the parts exterior very very lightly halping the coating to adhere to the part. Will need to rinse with distilled watter or rubbing alcohol. This ticks seemed to work.
How about sandblasting the print before painting so the first layer of paint has more to grab on to? Thanks for sharing your struggle, the journey is more enlightening than the destination
Plating is a pain
Buy a book about it and you will be surprised at the results
Also you should of used bright acidic copper,
did you calculate your surface area for the voltage! The part looks burnt up
Copper paint is a pain you can always try silver. Works like a charm
its the paint .... i used mg chemicals nickel or silver paintworks great and has resistance of 0.02 ohm and copper sticks to it great
the missing step is electroless copper, the more difficult part:) $$ palladium/tin activator
Try a metal fill filament. Electrically ground the print, positive charge to the spray can. Then do your other steps!
Start with a simpler test form and use graphite paint, white acrylic paint mixed with graphite dust will work. I would probably start testing with PLA and use a butylene/methylene fixing agent to keep the paint on the part.
There’s a German UA-camr that does it watch he’s channel
You could try a zinc based primer, used in marine painting applications. Its incredibly durable, and air will stick to it its a great thing.
have you tried to beadblast the part before primer and paint? Always a choice for resin prints
This is not gonna work
The part has to be a conductor before it can be plated.
Try going over the part with a graphite spray and test if electroplating works.
Electroless Nickel Plating is best to use a base before Copper plating it.
Would using a filament with metal in it help? I had some pla a while back that had metal in it for magnetism and so you could do rust effects on a print. Maybe having some kind of “metallic” filament could help the plating adhere easier?
I can say much with certainty but what I can say is you definitely have a problem with bonding to the plastic. I'd speculate that the thicker metal coating is just revealing that problem because the coating is now much more rigid and comes of in sheets when scratched. I'd focus on getting better adhesion: try a primer (might need to try a few different ones to find the one that works best). You could also experiment with different printing resins, liqcreate Composite-X naturally has a very slightly rough surface finish, it's expensive and hard to print with but one of my favourite resins. Might work well for this though I cant say for sure.
Thank you for sharing that with us. It holds significant value for many of us to witness both the frustrations and the pursuit of perfection. It makes the journey feel more relatable and encourages us to give it a try ourselves.
Conductive filament maybe?
Your skills are built for show
a semi conductive plastic, like one with graphite, should support "electroless" nickel plating.
Maybe it would be an idea to suspend some fine copper (or other conductive material) powder in the resin?
Looks like you're trying to plate nickel over copper paint?
Need to plate copper first.
The secret is labmetal..spray that on and it should work....
Try with graphite spray. Polish it for best surface conductivity
You may need to prime or just use another product I've blown glass for years with a torch and we got into painting certain areas of the glass and electroplating pieces had the same issues some of the products just didn't work for me. what's happening is the reaction is happening but instead of sucking metal onto your piece it's sucking metal off your piece you're going to need to prime it with something that's going to make it stick
try spraying graphite spray on it after your sealer and before your copper paint
Have you tried graphite paint? It’s conductive and has different adhesion qualities.
Can you get yourself invited to a factory 3D printing something really big like a boat hull to gibe us a tour?
Maybe a Problem with the solvents used? Have you tried FDM base Part?
Funny enough , I had an student working on this and in 4 months we couldn't achieve results like in the youtube videos lol. What we concluded was that the intensity was to strong and the layer of metal was thick and rought... Even with the lowest intensity we could use
I was thinking about that the copper may be too thin and acting as a resistant and heating up the resin underneath. He should try with graphite paint since it has less conductivity.
self etching primer should help with that.
Isn't self etching meant for use on metals?
I don't think you can etch plastic the same way.
That's because you have to use graphite paint. Even better if you mix your own out of graphite powder and a light binder solvent
Can't you add graphite to the resin and do the same electrolysis?
Your using a graphite paint right?
Is it the paint you are using?
I’m guessing a copper conductive paint
@@HyrumBurleson I thought you were typically better off using a graphite paint or even better a nickel paint for its higher conductivity. They are hard to get in some countries depending on environmental laws.
Castable resin and investment cast one in solid copper? Then its extra heavy in case you need to throw it at someine 😂
I know what's wrong with it, it ain't got no gas in it!
I seen a video where someone used a graphite spray with amazing results
You sure you had the anode in cathode in the correct orientation
It’s because you’re doing it wrong.
You need to connect one side of the voltage to your part and the other to the material you’re trying to deposit on the part. Can’t remember which is anode and cathode.
You’re shorting the part out.
It seems to me that this is a similar process as through plating at printed circuit boards PCBs.
Electroless plating!
When I copper plate things I use copper sulphate (root killer) and filtered water. Idk what you were using, but it wasn’t that.
The paint needs more texture to adhere to. Not sure how to solve that without sanding or chemical bonding.
Could it be the plastic you are using ?
You didn't use a primer first.
So many things wrong, not priming the plastic, not using a surround electrode to even out the current density and way to much current for an initial strike
Try graphite yeah its expensive but so is gold
It needs keying and/or priming.
Give sputtering a try.. The benchy should be small enough.
youtube.com/@hen3drik has a whole channel dedicated to electro plating 3d prints
…and is also from south of Germany.
sand & prime !!
Way to just give up,should keep trying ,its not even that hard i just did my first few electroplated pieces, edit * I stand by this comment I really think you gave up for little reason after a slight failure I been having loads of fun plating 3d prints and other stuff last few weeks
current might be too high
Are you the guy in breaking bad
Reverse the polarity. You have the idea of anode and cathode backwards.
An electroplating 3d prints tutorial using graphite paint - ua-cam.com/video/TlD9USAhcEs/v-deo.html
Use just water and salt
Electoless nickle, maybe tin first.
i would practice on basic shapes. also aerosol can is a no no
no full length?
There may be an issue with the shorts description. If it is blank, view the entire video here: ua-cam.com/video/xOXaC-Jh70g/v-deo.html
@@MadeWithLayers Thank you!
Carbon fiber PLA bro
Talk to them
you should check out alex lab. he has a proven process and has done several full iron man suits with it
You need plastic primer!
i ll teach you how to do it, i know that from a dental techician point of view
use graphite spray paint ma guy
Wait you are a german?
Switch your leads
too high current
tin sn99 soldering filament direct 3d print btw
Try graphine paint
👍
Not only do you need primer but you need to sand it so its a bit ruff and the primer has something to grab prime it sand again as many coats as it takes until smooth then spray the copper
Just ask @hen3drik and i am sure he knows the soltuion.