SMITE 2 is good but it needs to be better - My Thoughts on SMITE 2's Second Alpha Playtest
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- Опубліковано 19 лип 2024
- One thing that I didn't directly say is that SMITE 2 really does feel like it's currently on track to just be SMITE 1.5. The big changes that I mention in this video as well as more that I'll mention in the future would make SMITE 2 truly feel like a new and exciting game as well as solve some of Smite's oldest problems.
Fineokay's video on beads/blink: • Why Beads is Unhealthy...
Timestamps:
0:00 Thoughts on the Playtest and New Changes
5:43 Easy Changes to Improve Smite 2
11:14 Hard Changes (Crowd Control)
15:23 Revert 9.5 health changes
28:16 Every SMITE 2 god should have a fun rework
29:45 SMITE 2 needs consistent hybrid scaling (strength and intelligence)
32:59 Fineokay's video on Combat Blink and why Beads is bad
36:16 My comment and lightly touching on Smite's problems with mobility and long animations
43:13 Final Thoughts
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Intro Song: "By My Side" by DJ Quads
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Outro Song: "Scared of Heights" by Loving Caliber
Game: SMITE 2 by Hi-Rez Studios
#smite2 #alpha #thoughts - Ігри
I have this video timestamped so anyone who wants to skim should be able to pretty easily click through the different sections. Anyone that hates how hard I am on 9.5 can skip that too lol. There were some other big changes in 9.5 like minion health changes that I didn't mention because I think they were overall good and don't need to change in SMITE 2. I also forgot to directly say it but I would also really like to see combat blink instead of beads in Smite 2, I just don't think it'll work well unless Hirez makes the CC changes that I mention in this video.
You’re right about Mulan’s non Ult abilities or at least incredibly close. Eyeballing yhe YT video timer you cast her 3 at 38:50 and finish casting her 1 somewhere between 38:55 and 38:56
There is a line and ruler as of the second smite 2 alpha test. Not sure if you’ve found it since making the video but it is there as an option to turn on
HOLY BASED
One thing i was hoping for from the Multi scaling abilities was changing attributes, like Bachus flop can reach further (to a given extent) with more strength, athena with more intelligence can taunt for longer, but the damage on her 3 is based off Strength. There would certainly need to be caps and a need to tweak the values, but i think stuff like that would really help make it feel like your building the god to play how you want, and helps give the Gods paths you can go down rather than them really being 100% one way or the other in almost all cases
Hard disagree, although it could be fun for a gamemode of the day or something. For the same reason explained by mast in the Crowd Control part, this would create the exact problem as with diminishing returns. It would be inconsistent, unpredictable and become frustrating. For example in Smite 1 you might join a fight later as artemis while an enemy bacchus is on low hp. You predict the pathing the enemy is going to take so you preemtively put down a trap on the other side of a wall, he jumps, but unlucky! he was hit by 4 hard cc's 15 sec ago so your trap instantly dissapears and he runs off. Now imagine this situation If you would add the scaling you mentioned above. There is no consistent way of knowing how far he is going to land. Every game the jump will be different, every minute in those games the jump could be different. You wouldnt reward good decision making, timing and experience. This would especially affect higher skilled games, where making small decisions, if an athena taunt is worth beadsing for example, can be crucial. Both diminishing returns or this hypothetical I don't think would be something healthy, reducing 'boring' cc's like stuns would be the way to go imo. I want to see more interesting cc's that impact gameplay, such as ymir wall, odin cage, herc 2, and aren't do nothing for 2 sec, This idea would be fun tho! But would not work if you consider smite to be a competitive game.
@@RojuulI completely agree, nice points.
I like that idea
@@Rojuulagree with everything you said considering most people would prefer more consistent feel and lower CC but the consistent way of knowing is checking builds. So experience and knowledge is rewarded but in a unfun way of always having to consider the fact that they may leap farther and most players wouldn’t want to/can’t be bothered always checking if his leap goes farther.
I do like the concept of making abilities change effects. Maybe CC duration wouldn’t be the best way considering that’s the main concern in this video. But making the taunt bigger but shorter or longer but skinnier would be a fun way to mess with items.
The consistent feeling is the safer bet but I wouldn’t mind a more crazier aspect to how items work on god abilities. But most people on average don’t press tab to check builds like higher level players may.
Totally agree with Mast As far as CC goes. I feel like it stands to reason that if you need an entire other system (diminish returns in this case) to curb the potency of CC… wouldn’t that just mean CC is too op? Doesn’t it just make more sense to adjust crowd control? You totally avoid the situation of having dr-able and non dr-able abilities which makes learning the game more new player friendly, but you also make your abilities more consistent. I’d rather use an abilities that I know is kinda bad all of the time, than one that might be really good some of the time and not even worth using some of the time.
i hear your point about having abilities that are kinda bad all the time but i think people will find that lacking and tiresome.
many characters had their core CC buffed in smite 1 under the guise of "QoL" adjustments. the dev's often cited player complaints that certain abilities "felt bad" and were therefore buffed.
i think you are right on all the things hirez needs to do. we could call them the "Mast haves"
Predecessor deserves way more attention and I'm glad to hear all the positivity you have towards predecessor lol
Yo Mast they did add a ruler option this time around
Appreciate you doing this I hope Hi-Rez sees it 😄
I think in a way Smite 2 is the end of smite. For me it’s like Smite 1 has ended and I can mentally part with the game without feeling like I’m missing out on the new game
It's a shame they killed the charm smite had
That's wild. It's the exact opposite for me. I've not played Smite in years and I'm very excited to play again when the game releases.
@@Zathren That’s probably why we differ so much. I’ve been playing consistently through up and downs so I think having this is a nice excuse to stop
Erik how many hours do you have on smite?
@@marvina8536what charm?
Clicked so fast, been ready for this to drop, love hearing your in depth thoughts
Bro chill lol
I wholeheartedly agree with the CC changes (and 9.5 too)
I have a big cosmetic change I'd like to see implemented. And that's, you know how Zues, for example, creates a thunderstorm for his ult, but the sun is still out and shining? It'd be cool if the world reflected the ults (or all abilities) being used. So acitvating Zues ult would create a thunderstorm on the entire map for the duration of the ult. Chaac's 3 would create a rainstorm on the entire map. A map-wide Sandstorm for Gilgamesh ultimate. Etc. Bigger ults, essentially, but it's completely cosmetic.
that is a thing for some skins in Smite 1 and it would be a cool addition for Smite 2 by default
@@MastYT i would disagree .. the problem with that is that everyone on the enemy team knows you used your ult
I propose another big "cosmetic"(s) change for SMITE 2 - stop making 90% of the new skins a lootbox roulette exclusive pachinko bullshit thing.
@@dragonis9609 well normally this would apply to giant teamfight ults like Gilgamesh, Zeus and Chaac which would be fine. Smite is the fun moba and this would be such a tiny nerf from a balance perspective that it's worth it for the cool factor
@@MastYT Agree there, it's not the worst case especially since those ults are very much on short CD's normally.
I really enjoyed this video. I think you have a ver nice calm voice and very developed analytical thinking. And in addition i also like a lot this video format with a gameplay on the background and the voiceover.
Lot of really good stuff in this video Mast. Very well put together and thought out points that not only criticize (good or bad) things in the game but for the bad adding some thoughts and ways to improve or adjust them. This is really valuable feedback from a long standing and competitive player that I think captures feedback felt by not only high end players but even some of the more casual or newer audience, which is an important factor.
To address one tiny point early in the video. A ruler/guide does exist in the current state. The toggles are a little bit hidden in the settings but one was implemented for Alpha 2. Ground Target, Distance Line Indicator, Self Nameplate, and the Store Alignment all were added for Alpha 2.
Mast is has such a large smite brain. Big fan of the review and how you view the game. Also, love the face cam in the 9.5 vid wouldn't hate to see it more!
I’m with you Mast, thanks for standing up and letting yourself be heard. Just so you know I’m gonna be a life long fan literally any game you play. I do love Smite and Pred the most, but still much love man thank you for all of your gameplay.
Great video! Two additional thoughts from me:
1) Unify the mapping of ability to specific order so it's easier for new players to understand the leveling priority and/or function of the ability as well as understanding new gods that get introduced. For example, the primary minion wave clear should always be #1, utility/theme ability to #2, and movement #3.
2) Ensure that every god's ultimate should be the best ability, and that all players should always want to level the ultimate ASAP because the advantages scale properly for the ultimate vs being happy with the initial level of of the ult and then ignoring any future investment until they have all the remaining abilities fully leveled.
Together the two ideas above make it much easier to onboard new players while providing value to everyone for any new gods that get released. This is particularly useful for console players who can't remap binding.
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Final thoughts
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HiRez says that Smite 2 is a new game, which is why we're not getting all our stuff from Smite carried into Smite 2 so there should be zero issue with changes to anything/everything for the new game, particularly when it helps new player onboarding and/or learning new gods.
Since you already have arena mode nearly ready, just throw it out there to allow your casual/non-conquest players to have a mode to play and provide feedback and don't force them into conquest where they're likely to face serious problems and AFK super early into the game.
Until we have at least 5 gods in each role, don't fret balancing gods/abilities/items during an alpha test that's only available to paying players. Heck, try new stuff, try unbalanced stuff, go crazy. Maybe we'll like some of the new ideas and you can look to balance once we have options for each role.
Ive been playing on and off since season 2 and I agree with pretty much all the points you made. Hopefully someone at hirez balance team will see this and change some things
Love vids like this they can be longer no problem it’s perfect for my job
As a longtime viewer and Smite player, I'd say I agree with most of your points. I've fallen in and out of Conquest since starting in Season 2 so a lot of the changes that would have a huge impact (9.5 stats drastically altering level 1-2 fights) never seemed too huge for me. But also, on average, being at the top of most of my lobbies meant I could also get away with playing extra aggro which really hasn't changed much or games would basically be over no matter how well I perform. Aside from substantial meta changes/plays like level 1 Herc support invading speed, Gilg one shotting the other solo laner right after the first blue, stuff like that.
It does seem a bit strange that Hi-Rez only has two modes really, tweak a lot of numbers a little over time with gods changes, item cost changes, so on. Or drop a huge set of sweeping changes and leave them be for the most part like 9.5 or nerfing every single source of pen in the game and then reverting it entirely anyway.
Something like Fineokay mentioned like everyone having combat blink instead of beads does sound unusual though since more often than not it'll just be blink for blink like how it often goes in your Pred videos. I remember combat blink being frustrating to play against when it was in the game, but it's been forever since then so it might not have been an issue like I remember it being. BUT, I do love blink and it does also give a lot more flexibility to how certain gods can approach fights, or quickly disengage from them too. Satisfying to use well, but potentially very frustrating to deal with.
Reducing CC durations and DR but also removing beads is an interesting idea though. Initially it sounded awful since certain CC heavy comps would be certain death without beads, like an Ares Athena team just running down gods without cc immune ults like Zeus and Neith and just erasing them. But, more consistent CC durations would be fantastic really. It always feels awful to try to kraken someone quickly after a Ymir freeze and they just leap out because they happened to have max DR stacks already. Stuff like that is a frustrating inconsistency that needs to be ironed out somehow.
Again excellent video as always Mast! I'm really hoping Smite 2 turns out great since Smite 1 was a fun and different game to so many others out there and not being a boring mouse click spam overhead MOBA was what really got me into it. It'd be a shame if the game doesn't get the playerbase it could have if people just aren't interested in it in the long run.
Not gonna lie personally love the hp changes dont lime dying to one cc early game so i hipe they dobt revert 9.5 maybe take it dowb a bit but if not im fine i lime it better
9.5 hate is a loud minority look at community polls most people prefer more depth to the team fights
9.5 was a band-aid fix to a fundamental issue. Yes, it solved the issue of dying to one cc, but long-term the fix to that is to change CC, not just make everyone tankier
First of all, great (and very needed) video.
I think many of us are not thinking critically enough about this game. It would be a real shame to recieve a slightly tweaked smite 1 with different items.
I agree completely with lots of the points you have brought. Most important are:
1. We need shorter CC and movements, the game balance needs this adjustment.
2. Removing beads actually sounds like a solid idea, perhaps there still is room for some counter CC items, but the don't need to be in every build, no matter the role.
3. Multi scaling gods as they are right now are mostly just a gimmick. Every hybrid god needs to feel viable, and have a NOTICEABLE tradeoff when it comes to focusing on the different stats. Otherwise, we might as well optimize by the best DPS item every patch just like smite 1.
4. When I heard about fun reworks, I too was expecting more than a stat tweak. Considering the complexity of new releases, there is no good excuse to put old characters as they are in the game without a good overhaul. Most old gods struggle with their identity, unless it is really simple (ex: Anhur's damage via passive, Ares's CC). So many gods deserve something flowing and smooth when they are reborn.
5. Clunky abilities- Oh my god I could barely play the alpha, every ability feels so slow! there are very few abilities in Smite 1 which are "too quick", smite 2 felt slower by a margin.
Thank you again Mast for creating the space for some critical thoughts, love your content (Especially BG3)
I turned on the line/ruler targeting this second playtest, I always had it in SMITE 1 so I checked immediately for it both tests.
I think HiRez tried to do the right thing in 9.5 changes, but just missed the mark. Time to kill was a problem before 9.5 changes and a chunk of the community was definitely complaining about it. It felt awful as a back liner getting hit by Scylla crush late game and just insta dying because of years of power creep. Where Hirez went wrong was also making everyone way tankier in the early game.
The early game only needed some slight adjustments if anything. The late game is what really needed attention IMO. If they reverted most/all of the flat base increases and upped the scaling base stat buffs a bit more I think it would have been an ideal shift all around where early kills are still viable and one slight misstep late game won't instantly kill you and lose the game. What ended up happening was the early game slowed way down, and with all the power creep it still felt like you died a bit too quickly late game.
Anything that makes fighting pointless and you just PvE forever should be changed. Similarly, anything that forces you to walk on eggshells in late game team fights since one ability will literally one shot you should be changed as well. These things slow the game down too much and make it boring.
mast I very much enjoy your content. I've enjoyed all your videos and like you, I've been liking predecessor more than smite.
While playing in jungle practice I was able to active the ruler/line targeter. I don't remember if it was active during gameplay though.
My Smite2 experience so far: I expected nothing, and I am still disappointed.
Excelente video e bons pontos.
Mas a linha tem sim, joguei com ela no playtest.
Te acompanho do brasil .
Great takes, I personally would'nt mind at all if the game release would get pushed further even if they dont do anymore update for smite 1.
THANK YOU! This video perfectly summed up my feelings from back in the day when I first came to Smite from Paragon. It just felt so clunky. Ranged auto attacks moved at slow speeds (at a similar pace to top down MOBA), abilities felt slow to use because of animations, and the insanely long CC durations that were tied to base abilities that also did copious amounts of damage didn’t lend itself to a fun MOBA experience imo.
I think there needs to be a sliding formula that takes into account: dmg, CC, movement, and utility for all base abilities. If an ability does a lot of damage it should have little or none of the other qualities. This sliding formula would also solve the issue of Smites ability descriptions being almost a full paragraph. Ultimate abilities can forgo this formula as they have insanely long cooldowns and are ok being a little OP.
9.5 was one of the reasons I stopped playing for a long time, and I hope that they do fix it in smite 2
I agree on gods getting some deep reworks, mostly for warriors and mages
They're redoing the game, changing rules and more, it's also the best time to not just pump back gods for skins which all play the same
But i'm also afraid they gutter my favorite gods to play so i hope those get a free pass 😏
For autos, I think they should have the "default" be something like 80% Strength + 30% Intelligence, and then for specific gods as you said this could be adjusted, whether that's to 65% + 45% or to 90% + 20%.
the performance for me feels off. like i think it was better than the first alpha. but only during this phase did smite 2 completely crash my high end pc and i had to replug it in to get it to turn on. game feel was i think it was smoother but it's still clunky and a lil laggy. i don't know if that's latency
To lessen cc they need to keep movespeed nerf and maybe give a slight range buff to certain gods as well as lengthen the mid lane slightly
Sometimes I like to imagine the brightest timeline where 9.5 just came with a few Set, Susano, and Erlang nerfs instead of the HP changes
When Smite 2 was announced, my first and foremost hope was for an adjustment to cc. This is their chance to get rid of DR, make cc shorter, and balance cc among the classes. Guardians should be tankier and have more cc but less damage. If there was ever a chance to get it all fixed, it would be with the release of Smite 2.
So a GOOD amount of stuff I was pretty much with you on. MP5 items I was 50/50 ONLY because I don't see MP being that big a issue in MOST of the games i've seen, played etc. Mainly ability spam gods in Jungle and Solo at best. The general MP seems enough otherwise. HOWEVER I do think here or there could be like small bits of MP or MP5 in some items where it makes the most sense or some items as a possible core identity. Like an item has decent power and gives 30-50 MP (Not exact numbers but you get the gist.) and it either has no active or passive. Something of a bridge item if you feel you need the MP but don't want to scuff your damage too much. Trade off items will make Smite 2's builds.
CC: I agree. Mainly because there's no reason a single CC should hold you for long enough to die to MULTIPLE sets of spells over the time period. DR is stupid, just lower the CC durations. It also makes chaining CC's better and smarter. Gives the "Should I do it?" thought process a work out in a brain. Is the CC hit enough? Do I need more? We stacked X amount do we need another? Don't punish everyone for everything. DR is bad especially when a god has like Tyr passive or CCR reduction like in Smite 1. Now if the CC is JUST CC? No damage? Maybe it should have 1.6s duration HOWEVER if damage is there? 1s is fine. This would indeed remove the entire problem of 1 cc=death just because you BARELY got knicked by the cc.
9.5: I agree with reducing the amount of hp given. I don't think it needs a whole revert just make it like.. 20% early, 3% per level and there's no need to keep all the prots given per level. However the reason the change was made was because and not limited to as you said.. Early game was deciding the whole game. Laning phase was 2 waves after level 2 and first kills decided the snow ball and that was actively hurting the game. Additionally tanks were only good if they built full defense then items that did damage based on the defenses they built which was also a problem. But the change came because out of the 9 seasons Smite was around before it.. 4 of those seasons saw early game to mid game decisions of the winners in competitive and casual play and saw Tank damage be risen to obscene numbers through sheer tankiness and item effects. This coming from a SOLO LANER, it felt bad that I had to go full defense to even live against mid lane mages, ADC's no crit and they still saw fit to throw MORE pen into the game (hence flat pens removal in Smite 2) To help on top of the % pen. Which led to people dying if they were hit with 1 CC. So it compounded with the CC issue in Smite 1. I do as I said AGREE with you Mast. They need to roll back some of it, Now I don't think it's entirely needing to be removed. However HP diversity is necessary for the gods. Like how Serqet and He Bo used to have the lowest HP's but they auto deleted people in previous seasons. Tanky characters should have a lil higher HP pools level 1 and onwards. But as you said with Loki, 70% between 3 yrs ago and now is much. On an Assassin at that.
in regards to old 9.5 video: the Prot changes were much too much. if the HP were alone I feel it wouldn't have been as horrendous as it was. When I saw Prot changes I face palmed.. the hp changes were okay but I wasn't okay with the scaling HP changes either. I agree they should have found a middle ground, they did not.
Agree, the deaths i've seen in most early game deaths have been negligence and incompetence on the player who died part. Running back in, one hp, or going "His CD's can't be back. Mine are" Stuff like that. Trying to ego the fight you JUST survived. That's been the cause of the early game deaths and it makes me laugh everytime. Even your own, you've been like "PLEASE HIT. Fuck!"
Gods: 50% agree. Sol proves small reworks makecharacters better and Sol doesn't feel good. Fenrir is slightly better in my eyes but it needs to be slightly better. Release fenrir though? Peak. Sol? not enough a change. Hades? great. Zues? great. Odin? So far great.
Hybrid: agree, if they are gonna hybrid the stats more, make the scaling work in tandem or selection or better items to support the Hybrid builds as well as scalings in skills in some way.
FineO-s post: I've talked about this actually. I both see his points and also agree and disagree. There's quite a lot because Pred does have a good balance and it makes so much sense to have a combat blink. I do think there's good arguments on both sides. I do believe if they lowered the CC durations? yes, Blink would be the best option for the game. Give it a 3 min cooldown or a 2 1/2 min cool down and it'll be good and healthy for the game.
Dashes and Mobility: YES, gods why are some things like Tyr Dash Molasses diving but like Serqet goes like a race car? Tone it down, Make them almost as fast as driving strike so you Know what's happening. But not so far and fast that they will instantly make you safe. It needs to be slightly shorter and just speedy enough that they feel good to use. It'll make non mobile gods feel better and will allow more chances for 1v1's and dives and in general out play.
They need to fixate on a lot more good for the game. Can't be afraid, they HAVE to make that push. If they want Smite 2 to be relevant? they NEED to make that push.
Personally i'm a Joust-Only player in smite 1 - I have had a very hard time thinking balance for 5v5, as that isn't anything i've spent time on since the early days of smite1. I think we need 3x current items and 2x current gods before release - I press "y" every time i die, and its frustrating not knowing what killed me in smite 2, post-game scoreboard also needs a details screen. I think a lot of the issues with people playing stupidly, rage-quitting, or f7-warrioring is mostly an issue with people not playing conquest being forced to do it to play the test. Imo, if they release a 2nd gamemode with the next playtest, a lot of the "player mentality difference" issues will be fixed.
I'm pretty hyped for smite2, but its definately not ready for an actual release, mainly due to lack of content.
Zeus having a stun for his ult alone is literally just a free kill on any DPS who doesn't pre-beads the zeus who hasn't ulted in 60 seconds.
I agree about the fact that fights should be decided by multiple events. I think the way to solve it is 2 fold. Decrease cc and increase tankiness or decrease dps
A lot of the original god (not every one of them) could now pull more from the source material with the Engine now to make em cool as they should be
Everything on point mast I hope hi rez drops their pride and listens to this
In regards to CC, I think they should limit the amount of cc in the game and reduce the amount of time it lasts and get rid of DR or they should either heavily reduce the damage on the cc abilities or just outright remove all the damage, just due to the fact that a 2 second stun is already crazy strong but a 2 second stun that does 1k dmg is ridiculous
Man, as a game designer and user researcher, what I wouldn't give to work at Hi-Rez so I can see what the crap is going on, and plan the changes that have needed to be made but just haven't, and make sure the community's voices are heard AND communicate with said community. I know it's easy to say that, but it's because I'm seeing signs of ego (a designer's worst enemy), complacency, and a strange lack of awareness of their own game, community, design principles, etc. There have been enough problems with the game even 7-8 years ago when my designer friend and I quit (not even counting the predatory monetization practices employed even back then).
I'm really confused as to why they decided to throw a massive 9.5 curveball in as a blanket bandage rather than taking the time to care for the health of the game by handling individual cases or making adjustments afterward. I know it might be unfair for me to say that they don't care but I'm just speaking from evidence. The whole diminishing returns system is also a bandage of a more fundamental flaw, so it's not like we didn't see this more lazy design philosophy from a mile away. I'm sure there's a lot I'm missing here too. I have a feeling that they won't make the changes they need to for the release of Smite 2. I'd like them to prove us wrong, but it's just sad, man.
I would need to spend more time with it, but the abilities you mention that take longer to cast and/or animation time but have a longer range, like Bacchus' jump, is part of balance. Range and cast time / animation time are variables for balance. Whether that range and cast & animation time has extended outside of the limits of what Smite should support is another story. I could see an argument made that jumps should be shorter in range and cast time / animation. But then you have to consider, to what extent should people be able to dodge abilities if they themselves don't have some kind of defensive or mobility ability. The answer to that may be that every god should have at least one of defensive or mobile ability for that back-and-forth combat. It's complicated, doesn't matter right now.
I wanna point out with the 9.5 health changes that, according to former olympian liefwarrior, they were intended as a temporary change because specific buffs and nerfs would take too long to address the present issue. That more proper change being a global lowering of power and prots across all items, which was imo good.
But then they just didn't undo the temporary 9.5 change, and worse they kept it in smite 2. Its like they forgot why they made the change to begin with
hearing these changes makes me happy that i dipped in season 10 because the babysitting for squishies and buffing them in every aspect got old fast, now i can't imagine them starting with even more hp lmfao
While I appreciate some of the takes you said, but most of the video, you were going around two points, 9.5 and CC.
I dont know if you can apply 9.5 numbers on Smite 2 and say that loki has similar health status to ymir. Because that is what they were going for when they removed classes. So if anything it made ymir squishier, not loki tankier in S2. Starter items can change all that too.
I was waiting on more stuff about balance, items, gameplay, roster, and other game modes comments.
I feel like we as players tunnel vision on couple of things and hyper focus on them. In case of smite, 9.5 is being blamed for everything.
Well considering Loki's health went up to match rather than bringing Ymir's down, I think it's safe to say that they made him tankier, not Ymir squishier. ironically I feel like you're tunnel visioning the 9.5 part of the video considering I talked about a lot more than just that. There are going to be a lot of other topics in future videos but 9.5 is easy to isolate because it was a huge change and it's only 2 years old. CC problems have been around since Smite's beginning.
Classes weren't removed so loki can be a tank, classes were removed so people wouldn't be so anal about playing gods in certain lanes and having tantrums over it. Classes was something Hirez added only to make it more intuitive for new players on how best to play certain gods and the community went and made it a dogma of how things should be played. God's kits still decide what god does what and it hasn't changed much. Ymir is still a tank and Loki is still an Assassin.
Cama jump isn’t short anymore. It goes the same distance as a lot of other jumps now. I don’t remember how far it is, but it goes far.
yeah i def prefer the old distance
Animation time is also a thing with older gods. Look at zhong kui, he would be better, if he has shorter animation times, especially for his 3. At least he can walk while using his 3... much more like apollos 2, where he is allowed to reposition himself.
gold for junglers is also a thing. you can go 13-0 in the jungle and still be down in gold to a 2-4-3 midlaner
I agree with all of these points.
But the 1 thing I will say is that in reducing the dash lengths (which is fine and I agree with) it's very annoying having little short leaps when the map has really thick walls. Trying to Cu Chulainn leap or Merlin flicker through a wall just doesn't fucking work half the time with these thick ass walls on the map currently (same with blink) and that's annoying to me.
In addition to what you said, items in Smite 2 just don't feel great to build even if they have cool passives just because there are hardly any stats on them. Like what is with these items with legit just 1 stat? It just feels boring to build items or to get full build. I think now is a good time to experiment with just buffing items across the board with more stats and more fun passives, but to balance it out just make the items more expensive. I would also like to see more variety on scaling abilities or items as well. In League there are a lot of characters that have abilities that scale off of hp and most items have passives that scale off of power, prots, or hp. Make my build synergize with the God I am playing and with the stats I am building. For example why not make Ymir 2 scale off of int & health. They have the right idea with bloodforge blade shield scaling with strength and blood bound book scaling with int. More items in general would help with the replay value of Smite 2.
For me, the biggest issue that needs to be changed in smote 2 is the fact yhat base stats on all gods have been made far more similar between each god. This was done because, since every god can build every item and therefor play every role, they wanted to make each god able to PERFORM jn each role.
This was so damn terrible as it devalues the point of picking an assassin support or warrior jungle.
As for the hybrid builds, I would rather see it work different entirely.
Instead of mashing abilities to have physical and magical (im not calling it strength and int that's a stupid change) scaling, I want the god to have a physical or magical KIT.
Make it so that god have 2 "sets" of kits that scale off physical or magical damage / scaling and then you choose in the lobby "hey I want to play physical Bacchus" or "I'm playing magical neith" and then you can have that choice impact your build options.
This weird mess they have no simply doesn't work and, like you mentioned, it's a tough spot that hirez put themselves in wanting to make god's feel new but do it fast enough to pump out.
I feel like we should still have a bunch of options for relics instead of just beads or blink
I hope the devs listen to this. Its about time someone covered all these valid points
My ps5 version had a line aimer from smite one not the distance numbers but had a line
They shouldnt have taken away role selection pre q. Im not a fan of the picking roles in the lobby because its causing people not to play roles that are needed. Had a game where 3 of my team mates picked mages and went mid because they were all stubborn
Cc should have global timings, for example
Stuns : 1s max
Mez : 2s max
Roots: 1.5s max
Taunts: 1s max
Ect.. depending on how powertfull the cc type, the duration should be lower
Haven't finished yet, but I'm at the rant about hp. I completely agree. I've been playing since season 4 and I hated the change. That's why I've barely played the last couple years. That combined with the DMG nerfs they've talked about for all the gods in smite 2 and the match matching is why I haven't bothered buying the alpha yet. I was extremely hyped for smite 2 but from watching you and incon, idk anymore. It looks cool but the major issues I had with smite 1 seem to be worse so far in smite 2
I said this on one of your previous videos, but you said it again here, so I'll bring it up again. I don't think adding consumable slots to smite 2 is a good idea, as it will make smite 2 almost impossible to play for players with disabilities, like myself. I only have one hand with fine motor function so all inputs are currently mapped to a mouse, and they are already adding 5 new buttons that I will have to squeeze onto the mouse, which is going to fit, but only just. Adding consumables on top of that will make the game nigh impossible for players like me.
One option to fix the movement of items when you use potions is to have the potions build backwards (they fill the last item slot, then the second to last and so on) that way, they cant bump your active items.
As for additional wards, Hi-Rez could add an active item, "Sentinel's Eye", that places down a sentry ward when activated. Or they can add a potion, "Sentinel draught", that resets your ward cooldown. This also solves the issue of having a ton of excess gold after buying both elixirs.
Thanks to anyone who read all of this!
predacessor is where it’s at
I’d definitely be down with less overall CC. Not sure why zeus got his detonate stun back. That might also be me being bad at playing against it though
honestly i really like sol staying mostly the same, if they were to rework anything, id say rework her ult, her 3 while i get can be kinda boring but its a unique ability, no other god really has a movement ability like hers so i really wouldnt want it changed but thats just me, a sol main😭
I don't feel like the game is ready for a full launch in the next few weeks. Really would rather them delay it a few more months to fix all the issues and fine-tune the game feel.
That's because it's not. Full release won't be for awhile, closed beta not until end of July
Characters like loki have more hp because they said they wanted every god to have similar base stats since they removed roles. They didn't want gods to have inherent biases in specific roles like guardians having way more hp and prots than a mage making an inherent bias to only guardians play support and your mage supports are over all less tanky. Same goes with damage Im pretty sure they also made base damage and scaling similar to all gods so mages wont have an inherent damage bias compared to guardians.
The problem with that is that guardians and warriors still get punished by slower and shorter ranged kits, there's a reason that they've been tankier for so long. If you give Anhur and Chaac the same exact stats, Anhur is now the better early game character and it's not close because he gets ranged autos. I love giving gods the freedom to use different builds and play different roles but base stats were different for a reason.
You can't pray the classes away just because the name isn't there in the game anymore. No matter how much you avoid using the word Warrior, Achilles will always play like a Warrior from what you know, and never like a Mage. Sure, Neith is more of a mage as she always was, but adding magic damage isn't what does that. Achilles should always have higher base stats than Neith because if he doesn't then why ever play him? You can tank just as much with Neith and you'll also have the added benefit of dealing damage from range.
Hi-Rez,
hire this man.
I'm feeling my urge to play drain out of me despite being loyal to Smite since season 2. 9.5 really sucked out whatever fun the game still had left. Combine that with the fact that build diversity is non existent and none of the items feel impactful. It's rough.
They boast about build diversity, yet, when looking at bellona stats , the recommended is strength 5 stars . 0 intelligence. Kinda stupid isn’t it?
I'll just be playing valve game lol, as a 3D moba i feel like it has more verticality. Not to say that Smite is or should be aiming to do that, but Deadlock's gameplay just appeals more to me
Hirez listened to you closely, mast
Honestly, from what I'm hearing it sounds like there's 2 core issues at the moment: Firstly, Damage too high, pls nerf. Sounds weird considering one of the major problems was "they made everyone too tanky!" but, hear me out: The reason they did that was as a quick and dirty fix to something they probably noticed in league. Which was that anything that wasn't a tank could get breathed on after 20 minutes and explode. While a tank just required a tiny bit of effort, perhaps a full rotation as opposed to a single ability/attack. Since smite was undergoing similar issues, they took a similar response as a quick and dirty response: Tank patch. The issue is that this was only ever a band-aid for both games. Damage gets to ridiculous levels as a result of allowing it to scale infinitely without equally buffing tank stats. Nerfing damage is the actual way to deal with this problem, btw. However, we're not done, because damage being too high is also what made CC feel too long. If getting CCed once causes you to explode within a second, obviously the problem isn't CC. Especially if said CC is for 1-2 seconds. Rito Games has since gone back on their tank patch by turbo buffing damage into the stratosphere, and it sounds like smite's done much the same of effectively making the change do nothing outside making shit boring for a couple weeks.
Second, and this is something common through a lot of game development, They don't seem to have an actual functional character design power budget. Reason being, "Oh, it worked for league, though!" League players don't stick with the game due to their game design. League players stick to the game due to sunk-cost fallacy, habitual addiction, and a vain hope that the game will get better eventually. Oh, also, ego. That too. Games don't have to be perfectly balanced, but they do at least need to be balanced within an acceptable range for allow for everything to be equally valid. Having something with a greater than 20% play rate with more than a 51% win rate means something is *very* wrong with either that character or items it builds. Which, if it's just the one item or character every once in a while, is fine. Shit happens. However, if it's a consistent issue, it's either on purpose or a result of the dev team not having taken the proper precautions or done the proper work ahead of time to ensure the quality of the thing they released.
This kind of thing is only really magnified when your player base actually gets a taste of a little something Corporatists hate called "competition". It's quite poisonous to profits and disrupts their sacred monopolies, you see. Making it almost as feared as the blasphemous "Unions" but I digress. Basic gist is that your taste of a game that did it right in pred probably made you realize these issues at least at some level. My best advice it to play the one you like the most and make videos on it. If you want smite to change, force it. Starve it until it does. Then reward it with your patronage. Really, it's the only means we as consumers have to influence companies
If the problem is you get less punished for doing stupid shit, nerfing damage doesn't solve that problem. Dmg should be high, squishies shouldn't be tanking dmg but trying to avoid it unless they built for tanking. CC feels bad not because you get killed but because you literally don't play the game for 2 seconds. CC shouldn't take you out of the game for such a long amount of time.
@@AimbotFreak the thing is, 2 seconds really isn't a long amount of time. It's enough time to get auto attacked twice, or hit by one more ability unless you're in a position where the enemy team can dogpile you. In those latter positions... no, you should die there. Especially if you're a squishy. I definitely agree that it probably shouldn't be like some characters from league where if your opponent weaves their abilities correctly you're cced for 5-10 seconds (ornn, skarner, etc.). If 2 seconds IS too long, then either damage is too high or you're in a position where any amount of cc is lethal. The ideal range for damage is where squishies can be half-healthed off that two second stun, but without follow up are not immediately dead. If we're talking about 1v1 anyway. When we get into groups dogpiling, no, squishies should die there. You're an adc/mid that got stunned in front of the enemy team, perish.
@@AimbotFreak Also probably should have added "And revert the buffs to tankiness" to the prior replies, but oh well.
I was super bummed because me and my friend got a deserter penalty for no reason. we were never in a game.
Having less CC in the game and taking beads off the map isn’t going to fix or balance anything. How is nerfing ares ult CC a good idea? Fenrir ult? Hades ult? Tyr’s knockback combo? Etc?
Iirc we did have a line/ruler targeter this patch
line and rule targeter were in the game
❤
They need to hide certain ult paths/destinations like kuku and vulcan for example. Hopefully matchmaking is better instead of the stomp or be stomped shit. I very rarely have "good" games that could go either way.
Dang! Mast has more pull than he thought lol
A small correction is that the minimum duration a CC can be reduced to is 0,5 sec even after DR. I don't know about completely removing DR, but nerfing it, especially the duration, I wholeheartedly agree with. Imagine a situation where both teams are poking eachother when suddenly a Bellona dives your adc, you Fafnir 1/3 to peel but she only gets CCed for half a second because she got hit by your Morgan's 1 like 10 seconds ago. Your adc dies and you lose the game. That just feels like complete ass, your abilities had barely any impact because of factors beyond your control. Even if we deem DR to be necessary 15 seconds is way too long, pretty much every CC except ults has a cooldown less than that, especially with CDR, which also makes the CC abilities feel like shit in prolonged engagements. If DR's purpose is to stop massive CC chains caused by the extreme length of the average CC then I don't see why the buff lasts so long, I say 5 seconds at the absolute maximum, and even 2 seconds would be more than enough to mitigate the CC chains, while still keeping the impact of spaced out CC in longer fights.
Why do you think they should change sol's kit? Just because they can? Also her 3 is her most unique ability. It allows her to be played in a way that pretty much no other character can be played
Pred > Smite 2?
This video is a lot better than fineok’s. You’re honest. I’m sick of hearing doomer things.
Only managed 2 games this alpha . It was so bad smite one had double the player base at one point. Playing solo was so boring I couldn’t make it through a match. Also, because of no neutral farm in solo. If you fall behind or dc. The game is literally ruined.
Just upgrade smite 1 and add new features in smaller doses . E z
Cern is pretty good with hybrid imo
46minutes but not mentioned "item builder" once.. like why and how? am i the only one who misses that? is that a console thing only? I LOVED the item builder in smite1. being able to test around with items and how the numbers affect in the lobby, cooking some builds and the to have that build in a game under "recommended" was top tier. Cause with that i can build a build for every god and have it on ready whenever i find myself on that god again and i dont have to be like "shut what items did I ran on this god?" It's such a big difference and yet I dont think its that hard to bring into smite2 since its not a new feature but a very helpful one
I’m betting all my chips on S2. My S1 main account of 10years just got banned after I pretty much bough everything and founders pack before the ban. So my S2 will be able to whale out but idk I’m not starting over in S1 kinda over it after being set free
TELL EM MAST
The only mulan buttons that dont feel great is her 3 and ult. Maaaaaybe the 1. The 2 feels perfect though. The healing payoff, slow, and damage feels really good on her 2.
So maaaaaaybe 3/4 or 75% of her kit doesn't feel great
@@Razgriz08 does feel great, but also doesnt feel bad. Except the 3, and only as an escape. As a cc tool the 3 feels fine but as an escape it feels awful.
I like how ymir in smite feels, fun kit, BUT
ymir is not a Jottun, from his arm pits came fourth the Jottun, and toes the dark elvs/dwarfs
Ymir is not JUST a frost boy
Is a fusion from the world of fire AND frost
AND BORN in the void
His brain was used to make clouds and such, make ymir as epic as he should be and not just some frosty boi
To be completely honest, the hp increased was one of the best updates so far. Carrying in low ranks was unbelievably easy before this update. Having one player in your team getting destroyed early and being 1 hit mid game was awful.
Don't get me wrong. His opinion is correct. It's nearly impossible to die in a 1v1 early... So you're basically dependent on your jungle. Or support to do good rotations (against good players, of course)
I'm totally with you Mast. I was originally so excited for smite 2, but the more I play Predecessor the more I realize it's what I really wanted Smite 2 to be. The game isn't perfect, it's got plenty of work that still needs to be done, but the fundamentals of Predecessor are exactly what I want a 3rd person MOBA to be.
In comparison, the fundamentals of Smite 2 seem to be lifted from Smite 1. It feels like they had the opportunity to build something truly fresh that could address some of the core problems that have become baked into smite 1, but instead they are choosing to carry those core problems over and instead apply a band-aid solution, hoping it will be enough. I don't think it will be.
TBH, I'm enjoying your Pred videos a lot more than your smite ones at this point, I hope to see more soon!
The only thing that holds me back from loving Predecessor is the minion clear. Super long clear times and it's normally better to do as little damage as possible to the minions rather than as much which makes it easy for lanes to be boring if the other person won't fight.
@@MastYT I can see that. Some people really like lane management in their Mobas, others don't, so finding a sweet spot is tough. I think late game the minions have the perfect amount of health. Any less and it would be too easy to turtle and clear waves, but maybe a 20% reduction in health from minutes 1-10 would be enough to find a sweet spot? Past that I think the game's short distance between lanes is enough to create plenty of fighting and aggression.
Definitely a minor issue, but something worth considering. Maybe it gets adjusted as the game gets older?
7:31 didn't they literally just add a ruler this play test or am I misremembering
i didn't see it in the settings but maybe i missed it
@@MastYT You did miss it, playtest 2 added it but it was hidden in the settings. They added line/ruler and the little circle on where you currently are on that line, idk what to call it, marker?
@@MastYT I think they definitely did have one if you check the smite 2 alpha weekend 2 patch notes on the smite 2 website it notes it under "visual settings"
9.5 had to happen because of the toxic player base. Even still all it takes is one or two kills on someone for their whole team to f6 so I don’t blame hi rez at all for 9.5 Loki having almost as much health as Ymir is kinda crazy
i dont know if youll touch on this since i just clicked on video, but i felt like the abilities and actually dealing damage didnt FEEL good. like, id do a large amount of damage but it didnt FEEL like i was doing a large amount of damage, and that really ruined the vibes for me.
Literally this like on smite I used to feel like I was actually dealing the damage that was shown whereas now it just feels like sure I hit the ability but the feeling of the damage doesn't match
I think a lot of that has to do with alpha UI and animations that'll get better over the next few months
@@MastYT i whole heartedly agree and that was one of my biggest gripes in general with the alpha, but again you cant really predict the final version of the game from just an alpha, i have high hopes, but things need to change, as you've stated in the video. big fan of your content btw, ily
Hard agree
Not sure what you all thought would happen when they decided to remove roles completely in Smite 2. It is a ridiculously stupid decision, which one of the fallouts is the health issue you speak of, because for Loki to be viable as a tank he has to have more hp. But as far as I have heard from UA-camrs, removal of roles is a godsend. Well he sent the stats along with the role removal, so stop complaining and thank the god that sent it
Yupppp, this is why I don’t watch any smite UA-camrs. A bunch of gm’s on Smurfs looking to 1 shot people with troll builds for views.
This is what dictates your ranked portion of “win loss” on gods and such.
Unreal
Cern's 2 still kinda buggy. 1st play test it was fully invis. Got only a couple this time I think
TTK changes have not been reverted because "Solo " and "Support" mains on reddit continue to make claims that TTK is too low. Evidently as Arena was brought up as something to attract players to play more of the Smite Alpha, Hirez is listening to the wrong side of the community yet again because the way they Handled Smite 2's announcement among and access is literally killing interest to both games and by proxy the games themselves. The problem that caused all of the issues with Smite continues with Smite 2 and that's listening to the non-conquest players, which is a problem.
I’m refunding til full release.
I can’t imagine the amount of times over the last two years where I’d be diving on a god and just get CC’d to hell and blurt out why does {Redacted l} have so much CC god it’s so frustrating. Why does Morgan la fey have a knock up and knock bag on one ability as a MAGE. On top of the built in merc 2 that she has that she gets for free by just using the ability not even having to hit anybody. Some of these gods kits are just so bloated and frustrating.
Make loki great again . Give again his old kit
I think everything you said was 1000% correct and on point. I’ve been playing 7 to 8 years but wasn’t here for the 9.5 patch but i know it’s considered Smite’s worst patch I hope they do what you say and revert the health values. I noticed that in smite not many people die early game and I think that plays a factor into why some people find it boring. I don’t play league of legends because I don’t like the point and click gameplay but I find it way more interesting to watch than smite 1 and especially Smite 2 because people can die super early in game so it keeps you on your toes. Lowering health would add Agency and make 1 on 1 more engaging.