@@BloodBuffalo Rerolling 3s to hit isn't that big a deal. Also remember that you need to kill the first target to apply Oath to the second. That was much easier with reroll wounds. With less kill power, you have less reliability to not only trigger the second Oath, but less left over to use it. It may as well be 1.5 oaths in terms of output now.
@@basteala525 my best friend plays Bobby G. I see him almost every time I play. I have aggressors and a biologis in my blood angels. My army would do better with a Gulliman than aggressors. You forgot the whole lone operative part I mentioned plus in general everything that comes with him
So Anti Demon 4+ and Dev wounds. I'd like it to have an ability like "Emperors Light - All friendly units within 6" are +1 to hit. All enemy units withing 6" are +1 to critical hits"
Problem with anti deamon rules they take some of his power budget away for what is a very small selection of units. Look at the grey knight they used to be their core identity and it got rolled and rolled back to being a tide in the warp and how they don't have anything anti deamon I don't think.
Getting 2 oaths with GMan just doesn't work so well now. It would of be better if his ability enhanced oath. Gives everthing either leathal or sustained in shooting and lance in fighting. Something like that. Emperors swords needs a little more added to it as well. Dev wounds are much harder to get now and the Emperors shield does a lot of other things for the Lion. He's certainly not woth 360. He's probably worth less the Morty at the moment.
You get a 5 man terminator squad and a Gladiator lancer for 335- still room for enhancement. Yoy get 6x Agressor, Biologis AND Gravis captain with fire discipline for 365.. Examples go on and one. Guiliman needs to be 280-300 or he needs a massive buff...
Fixes for Gulliman. Emperors sword gain anti demon 3+. Gain ability from Emperors sword. Emperors light - All friendly units with 6" are plus 1 to hit. All enemy unit with 6" are plus 1 to crit hit. Change double oath to gain plus 1 to wound to all attacks on oath target. That would put him in line with the Lion points wise but still keep his theme for inspiring his men. It also put the Emperors Sword and shield in synergy with one another. Defensively one is giving a plus 1 to hit the other plus 1 to wound.
It is a bit sad to see GMan being affected by the nerfs of tenth edition he should be much stronger definitely more troop and morale based abilities as he is a tactical genius I wish GW showed it more on the tabletop
Glad to see that gw really likes the imperial primarchs. Both of them had their best agility nerfed almost immediately and they didnt go down in points
What I’m wondering is why he has better melee than the lion. Sure you can say he (guilliman) is not aged but still the lion in his “prime” bodies G-man and even old man Lion can still shit on G-man since I doubt Guiliman can beat angron.
All of his author of the codex abilities should always be active to show his tactical genius and I think he deserves a 3+ invulnerable save again. That armor is too cool to not do that for him. And maybe something all primarchs should have is immune to battleshock test.
3+ invuln is very rare, hes tough enough without it. he certainly needs a couple buffs for those points, but not that. Maybe give 3+ invuln but take away the ressurection? doesnt make much sense that he has that in the first place.
Lot of lists can be built with him in mind but you cant slap him into any list. 3 dreads, guilliman, 2 executioners, tech marine with auger and trash is a fire ironstorm list
He’s very vulnerable to psychic ability attacks that ignore lone operatives!! Grey knight librarians and thousand sons have made minced meat out of him from my experience. I spent countless hours painting him so I’d love to be able to run him but he’s way too inefficient at this time to consider, 380 pts buys you a lot!
My 80 point Master of Executions with a further 25 point enhancement (so 105 total) - The Berzerker Glaive - one-shots Guilliman easily. I love that this is a thing but as both a Smurf and WE player, I do think Guilliman isn't what he used to be...
i've only played against a guilliman once, dude charged my gunline, got stuck fighting a broadside, and next turn my hammerheads came out of reserves, shot him at point blank range, and his resurrection failed. I don't exactly get what he's supposed to achieve
I just enjoyed the phrase, "As ever, if you're looking to pick up the primarch of the Ultramarines..." as if he's always got people coming onto him, or Auspex Tactics was about to give us some advice on negging
I feel like him and the Lion have the same problem at the moment. They're feel overcosted as stand alone melee monster's moving up the board and don't buff up the rest of your army as much as you'd expect, the Lion especially so in the buffing area. As much as I want to field them, I always find myself weighing more in favour of "more stuff" over them.
The second oath target was most of his value. It allowed focusing one nuisance off the board and start on a second one. I get that full rerolls is an annoying rule to play against but i wish they wouldve just replaced his second oath target with something else or gave him more options if that was the case. as for the revive a 3+ revive on a 360 point model is too swingy to be relied on. you’re gonna be using it only when you mess up his positioning or your game state is dire. I’m still playing him in my lists cause he looks cool.
Honestly I feel Gulliman should have kept old Oath. Even if Oath was reroll hits alone otherwise. It'd make his ability even more special compared to the codex nerf and honestly would give a reason to run him.
No o feel both the imperial primachs are somewhat over costed points traps, he lost alot of his buffing rules going from 9th to 10th and then got nerfed again with the oath nerf so i think he’s probably 100 points over where he is in the game the lion is actually worse right now cause he doesn’t hit as hard as Roboute does and they both have a durability issue, more so for the 1st primarch cause he can’t ressurect.
The last game I played with the Dark Angels, the Lion cut down a Norn Assimilator, the Swarmlord, a Carnifex and a Tervigon. The dude kills whatever he touches, so I've no complaints about his offence. I get what you mean about defence, but the Lions 3+ invun has kept him going in a few games when he should have died much sooner. 3+ in a game where you mostly roll 3's and 4's is superb.
Yeah, the Lion is a beast in comparison. Maybe it doesn't seem it on paper, but in games he is just clearly much more difficult to deal with. A recent local tournament there was ONE round of the whole tournament where someone was able to take out Lion. Roboute got killed in most rounds, fairly easily it seemed, and rarely did anyone successfully roll his stand back up ability. That said, maybe it was just luck of the dice, but certainly seemed that Lion was far more of a problem to deal with than Roboute. (They were both still 380 points at that time.)
Oh Robby, what have they done to our main man. I'll be re-rolling hits and wounds the way god intended, since I don't want to shell out for the new codex.
He is pricey but my boy is still my boy. I think he is worth the points tbh. But I’m a casual player who plays by the rule of cool solely so who am I to talk
I feel like he's an auto include in a collection that includes ultramarines...kinda like Lion El'Johnson would be for anybody collecting Dark Angels, but I definitely don't think he's an auto include on a 2k list, he'll definitely feature on a bunch of them, but you'll have to justify his presence, which is exactly right from a game balance standpoint, "auto include" units are a very annoying part of this game for me, there should be as many "this for that" tradeoffs as possible on lists, include more infernus marines at a time when you expect to face an Infantry heavy list, but you'll be weaker against a vehicle heavy opponent etc, feels like the more you have to think about the specific strengths and weaknesses any given unit brings to a list the healthier a position the game is in overall
When you compare him against Mortarion , Angron etc who don’t cost that much more and are significantly better - his points cost is stupid especially without 3+inv now.
be better if they just scrapped his path rule and wrote some new buff that he gives out instead ... his points are very high for what he does .. sure he hits hard in melee but there are better things for melee than him mooching about ... These supreme leaders are are so odd in disparity from last edition .
He should have a better toughness, maybe 10 or 11. Hes a primarch and should be able to clap an avatar of khaine or a demon prince with easy-mid difficulty
I play with a lot of dreads, and I just got G man. I just finished his base and am about 50% done the main model. What makes him so good with dreads? Would love to include him in my ironstorm list but figured it would make more sense to play him in something like gladius or stormlance.
he was weak even with reroll to wounds, now he is really useless. He is super easy to kill. Also hes "second target oath" is only if you kill first before, this is HUGE disadvantage, and after you play him a few times you will see he rarly does anythig. - you cant move him to kill, cause he will die super fast (he has survability of a demon prince), and his buffs are not worth 300+ points at all. Also he has 33% chance not to wake up after death - and this is another huge disadvantage. He should cost like 280 points maybe? And even then they should buffs his buff so they can be useful. Nobody plays him in this edition. Even with reroll to wounds he wasn't played at all. So how anybody could rate him as ok? Any skilled opponent will kim him super fast. It doesnt matter what you do, it is easy to run into 12" and nuke him. And whole your game plan is over.
I bought him right in the beginning of 10th I was so hyped to use him ....now he's just meh sucks. I thought he'd only get better with the codex not worse
I was running him before the Oath nerf, and I had to think hard about if I wanted to keep running him. He is expensive, but he does so much for my list I can’t replace him. High lethality, free armor of contempt within 12”, and the opponent targets him instead of my units that are scoring. He almost always survives the game, and he kills more than his points regularly. He’s an auto take for me.
The number of 'you can't shoot this model as its near this unit you can't shoot because raisen' combos need a fix, not being able to shoot the only model you can out in the open becuase they near a model hidden out of LoS or them self unshootable is just asinine.
The fact you can have 6 aggressors and a biologis with fire discipline for less points than guilliman makes him feel pricey
His command abilities and lone operative are extremely op to play against. Allowing a double oath of moment is strong.
@@BloodBuffalo no they aren't lol.
They USED to be
@@BloodBuffalo Rerolling 3s to hit isn't that big a deal. Also remember that you need to kill the first target to apply Oath to the second. That was much easier with reroll wounds. With less kill power, you have less reliability to not only trigger the second Oath, but less left over to use it. It may as well be 1.5 oaths in terms of output now.
@@basteala525 my best friend plays Bobby G. I see him almost every time I play. I have aggressors and a biologis in my blood angels. My army would do better with a Gulliman than aggressors. You forgot the whole lone operative part I mentioned plus in general everything that comes with him
@@AuramiteEX lone operative is no longer good? I said more than one thing
im surprised the emperors own sword doesnt have some kind of unique ability against daemons
I think that the power of the sword depends on the hand of the user; in the hands of the emperor it could be more more powerful
@@matteopolloni4601in the books it doesn't matter who holds it.
The sword itself hurt deamons and gives them a true death if killed by it.
@@dushikorsou1makes sense Ghal Maraz still hits just as hard for Franz as it did for Sigmar and the emperors sword is the closest thing to it
So Anti Demon 4+ and Dev wounds. I'd like it to have an ability like "Emperors Light - All friendly units within 6" are +1 to hit. All enemy units withing 6" are +1 to critical hits"
Problem with anti deamon rules they take some of his power budget away for what is a very small selection of units.
Look at the grey knight they used to be their core identity and it got rolled and rolled back to being a tide in the warp and how they don't have anything anti deamon I don't think.
Guilliman at 360 compares quite badly when you can get Calgar and 2 Victrix Guard for 185 and make an Aggressor or Bladeguard deathball
He still kicks arse in melee, but i do think they shouldve made his oath the old oath. Because hes a bit overcosted right now.
100% agree.
Getting 2 oaths with GMan just doesn't work so well now. It would of be better if his ability enhanced oath. Gives everthing either leathal or sustained in shooting and lance in fighting. Something like that. Emperors swords needs a little more added to it as well. Dev wounds are much harder to get now and the Emperors shield does a lot of other things for the Lion. He's certainly not woth 360. He's probably worth less the Morty at the moment.
I'd start to think about him at 300 and take him at 280.
You get a 5 man terminator squad and a Gladiator lancer for 335- still room for enhancement. Yoy get 6x Agressor, Biologis AND Gravis captain with fire discipline for 365.. Examples go on and one. Guiliman needs to be 280-300 or he needs a massive buff...
Agreed!
People forget that he has the third best melee in the game behind abbadon and canis rex
Fixes for Gulliman.
Emperors sword gain anti demon 3+.
Gain ability from Emperors sword. Emperors light - All friendly units with 6" are plus 1 to hit. All enemy unit with 6" are plus 1 to crit hit.
Change double oath to gain plus 1 to wound to all attacks on oath target.
That would put him in line with the Lion points wise but still keep his theme for inspiring his men.
It also put the Emperors Sword and shield in synergy with one another. Defensively one is giving a plus 1 to hit the other plus 1 to wound.
@@tyhar7493 just go away with the anti daemon stuff
@@user-zh8dr1qt1s How about be constructive and don't tell people to do one.
It is a bit sad to see GMan being affected by the nerfs of tenth edition he should be much stronger definitely more troop and morale based abilities as he is a tactical genius I wish GW showed it more on the tabletop
Give him the Illuminor Szeraz +1 ap to battle line and make intercessors great again 😂❤
@@rellikskuppin7417make firstborn great again
He is like 10-12 feet tall. Just look up a picture of the almost 9 foot tall Robert Wadlow to know just how fucking big that boy is.
Wait Auspex has 258k subs.. my man. I remember finding you around early 2020. Congrats!
Glad to see that gw really likes the imperial primarchs. Both of them had their best agility nerfed almost immediately and they didnt go down in points
His worth is directly tied to oath , since oath is trash right now , he s also trash
Guilliman needs a points cut I think he'd be fine at maybe 340.
300
I'd rather bring calgar even with him at 250. The butchered him so bad
Guiliman is shit for the points. Should 300p at most. For 360 you get so much other stuff he just doesn't even compare..
I kinda wish they leave him at 360 but make him alot stronger
@@seidon_2 new oaths or 1 old oath maybe? And I agree
He definitely costs to much. But he is still one of my favourite models I own.
What I’m wondering is why he has better melee than the lion. Sure you can say he (guilliman) is not aged but still the lion in his “prime” bodies G-man and even old man Lion can still shit on G-man since I doubt Guiliman can beat angron.
All of his author of the codex abilities should always be active to show his tactical genius and I think he deserves a 3+ invulnerable save again. That armor is too cool to not do that for him. And maybe something all primarchs should have is immune to battleshock test.
3+ invuln is very rare, hes tough enough without it. he certainly needs a couple buffs for those points, but not that. Maybe give 3+ invuln but take away the ressurection? doesnt make much sense that he has that in the first place.
The Imperium needs some internal strife…..
Where is LEMAN RUSS!!!???
Guilliman please stop dissapointing us, we really want to play you
Lot of lists can be built with him in mind but you cant slap him into any list.
3 dreads, guilliman, 2 executioners, tech marine with auger and trash is a fire ironstorm list
He’s very vulnerable to psychic ability attacks that ignore lone operatives!! Grey knight librarians and thousand sons have made minced meat out of him from my experience.
I spent countless hours painting him so I’d love to be able to run him but he’s way too inefficient at this time to consider, 380 pts buys you a lot!
My 80 point Master of Executions with a further 25 point enhancement (so 105 total) - The Berzerker Glaive - one-shots Guilliman easily. I love that this is a thing but as both a Smurf and WE player, I do think Guilliman isn't what he used to be...
Too expensive. 300 points is the right place for him.
Tyrannofex raises a chitin covered eyebrow.
@@nealdixon-jones5851 and? More than one thing can need an adjustment
Feels like it's just a better idea to take Calgar and his Victrix everytime now.
I agree
Yea, Calgar almost feels more durable with the 4+ fnp and a unit to lead
@@Powaup Against BIG hits (S12+) I would bet he is tankier. You have to get through his two body guard with 2+/4+ saves.
Maybe im confused, but everyone says he is expensive, but he is the same cost as the Lion, who everyone usually runs for Dark Angels?
Would kind of nice if there was 2nd datasheet version of him for the other imperial armies.
The fact the avatar of Kain is less than this guy but is so much better is a joke
now time for a Lion :)
i've only played against a guilliman once, dude charged my gunline, got stuck fighting a broadside, and next turn my hammerheads came out of reserves, shot him at point blank range, and his resurrection failed. I don't exactly get what he's supposed to achieve
I just enjoyed the phrase, "As ever, if you're looking to pick up the primarch of the Ultramarines..." as if he's always got people coming onto him, or Auspex Tactics was about to give us some advice on negging
Great video as always! Love the Avenging Son!
I feel like him and the Lion have the same problem at the moment. They're feel overcosted as stand alone melee monster's moving up the board and don't buff up the rest of your army as much as you'd expect, the Lion especially so in the buffing area. As much as I want to field them, I always find myself weighing more in favour of "more stuff" over them.
While in the theme, can you do one for Lion El jonson ?
The second oath target was most of his value. It allowed focusing one nuisance off the board and start on a second one. I get that full rerolls is an annoying rule to play against but i wish they wouldve just replaced his second oath target with something else or gave him more options if that was the case.
as for the revive a 3+ revive on a 360 point model is too swingy to be relied on. you’re gonna be using it only when you mess up his positioning or your game state is dire.
I’m still playing him in my lists cause he looks cool.
The revive is cool. Part of me thinks he'd be better off with just more wounds and a FNP. Chances are me just being salty over some poorly timed 2s.
Honestly I feel Gulliman should have kept old Oath. Even if Oath was reroll hits alone otherwise. It'd make his ability even more special compared to the codex nerf and honestly would give a reason to run him.
No o feel both the imperial primachs are somewhat over costed points traps, he lost alot of his buffing rules going from 9th to 10th and then got nerfed again with the oath nerf so i think he’s probably 100 points over where he is in the game the lion is actually worse right now cause he doesn’t hit as hard as Roboute does and they both have a durability issue, more so for the 1st primarch cause he can’t ressurect.
The last game I played with the Dark Angels, the Lion cut down a Norn Assimilator, the Swarmlord, a Carnifex and a Tervigon. The dude kills whatever he touches, so I've no complaints about his offence. I get what you mean about defence, but the Lions 3+ invun has kept him going in a few games when he should have died much sooner. 3+ in a game where you mostly roll 3's and 4's is superb.
Yeah, the Lion is a beast in comparison. Maybe it doesn't seem it on paper, but in games he is just clearly much more difficult to deal with. A recent local tournament there was ONE round of the whole tournament where someone was able to take out Lion. Roboute got killed in most rounds, fairly easily it seemed, and rarely did anyone successfully roll his stand back up ability. That said, maybe it was just luck of the dice, but certainly seemed that Lion was far more of a problem to deal with than Roboute. (They were both still 380 points at that time.)
Oh Robby, what have they done to our main man. I'll be re-rolling hits and wounds the way god intended, since I don't want to shell out for the new codex.
He is pricey but my boy is still my boy. I think he is worth the points tbh. But I’m a casual player who plays by the rule of cool solely so who am I to talk
having a chance to get back up is silly, id rather just have him be that much tougher to begin with.
No, I tried him yesterday and he wasn't great.
The literal definition of Epic Hero
Hes good in ironstorm just for that free strat tbh
@AuspexTactics I have not watched this video yet, but think You should have a comparison video of every Primarch when Fulgrim comes out
I feel like he's an auto include in a collection that includes ultramarines...kinda like Lion El'Johnson would be for anybody collecting Dark Angels, but I definitely don't think he's an auto include on a 2k list, he'll definitely feature on a bunch of them, but you'll have to justify his presence, which is exactly right from a game balance standpoint, "auto include" units are a very annoying part of this game for me, there should be as many "this for that" tradeoffs as possible on lists, include more infernus marines at a time when you expect to face an Infantry heavy list, but you'll be weaker against a vehicle heavy opponent etc, feels like the more you have to think about the specific strengths and weaknesses any given unit brings to a list the healthier a position the game is in overall
When you compare him against Mortarion , Angron etc who don’t cost that much more and are significantly better - his points cost is stupid especially without 3+inv now.
Best site for buying in the US?
be better if they just scrapped his path rule and wrote some new buff that he gives out instead ... his points are very high for what he does .. sure he hits hard in melee but there are better things for melee than him mooching about ...
These supreme leaders are are so odd in disparity from last edition .
Now do the Lion!
I remember the good old days when you needed permission to use named characters, now everyone is running 10,000 year old primarchs in skirmish games
I use bobby g cause he’s cool.
He’s good enough and works well enough but could probably still use a small points decrease.
Only time ive fought guilli bo he charged my abaddon and put him down to 1 hp. Then abaddon killed him. He rose and my turn abaddon killed him agaij 😎
Guilliman is an interesting model. I know a friend who has one, though his opinion of it is not the best one.
He should have a better toughness, maybe 10 or 11. Hes a primarch and should be able to clap an avatar of khaine or a demon prince with easy-mid difficulty
neat
He is still a mandatory for Redemptor lists. Anything else, he is replaceable.
I play with a lot of dreads, and I just got G man. I just finished his base and am about 50% done the main model. What makes him so good with dreads? Would love to include him in my ironstorm list but figured it would make more sense to play him in something like gladius or stormlance.
he was weak even with reroll to wounds, now he is really useless. He is super easy to kill. Also hes "second target oath" is only if you kill first before, this is HUGE disadvantage, and after you play him a few times you will see he rarly does anythig. - you cant move him to kill, cause he will die super fast (he has survability of a demon prince), and his buffs are not worth 300+ points at all. Also he has 33% chance not to wake up after death - and this is another huge disadvantage. He should cost like 280 points maybe? And even then they should buffs his buff so they can be useful. Nobody plays him in this edition. Even with reroll to wounds he wasn't played at all. So how anybody could rate him as ok? Any skilled opponent will kim him super fast. It doesnt matter what you do, it is easy to run into 12" and nuke him. And whole your game plan is over.
You keep saying he was weak before the oath nerf
My man, he was in nearpy EVERY competative space marine list pre nerfs
Cost way too much.
I bought him right in the beginning of 10th I was so hyped to use him ....now he's just meh sucks. I thought he'd only get better with the codex not worse
I expected a 10 foot tall primarch but when I looked he was 2 inches tall😢
He is very small compared to what i assumed he would be when i bought him
Thought he would be dreadnought size
oi, more
I was running him before the Oath nerf, and I had to think hard about if I wanted to keep running him. He is expensive, but he does so much for my list I can’t replace him. High lethality, free armor of contempt within 12”, and the opponent targets him instead of my units that are scoring. He almost always survives the game, and he kills more than his points regularly. He’s an auto take for me.
He's just not worth it at that point cost.
Disappointing son.
The number of 'you can't shoot this model as its near this unit you can't shoot because raisen' combos need a fix, not being able to shoot the only model you can out in the open becuase they near a model hidden out of LoS or them self unshootable is just asinine.