Was Mozart arrogant? Reviewing Mozart in Movies🍿
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- Опубліковано 6 сер 2023
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Do you think Mozart was arrogant or just confident in his skills? Dive into the world of Mozart as seen on the big screen with 2 very different portrayals of Mozart's character 🎬 From the iconic 'Amadeus' to the riveting 'Chevalier,' we explore the portrayal of the maestro and the influential Joseph Bologne, a figure long overshadowed in history. But do these films capture the intricate balance of playfulness and mastery in Mozart and his music? Let's find out! 🍿
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What do you guys think? Was Mozart really arrogant or just confident in his skills? 🎵Join the Mozart Practice Challenge on Tonic: tonicmusic.app/practice-now
Even if he was arrogant, he kinda "deserves" it. We see unfortunately today many arrogant musicians not even close to Mozart's level having a gigantic ego and attitude.
Confident. If you're smart enough to get competent at something, then you're smart enough to perceive how competent you are. Mozart loved having friends over for dinner, so obviously his honesty about his talent didn't make him mean to others.
I think that perhaps Mozart would still be a genius but with an autism diagnosis/communication. Some articles have discussed that he had Tourets syndrome.
aww man, at first I was intrigued by the movie (Chevalier) since I always cheer for the underdogs, but that duel scene was so cringe-worthy I decided against it. I mean...I don't know Chevalier at all, but every single document about Mozart I've come across (as a self-professed Mozart snob, I've read loads) portrays him as a master of improvisation who was topped by few. Additionally, Mozart is not known to be a jealous guy....so the movie stretched their artistic license a wee bit too much.
so....was Herr Mozart really arrogant? I think he was just a guy who knew what he was really worth, but had to blow his own horn more often than not because people simply didn't value him as much as he deserved, so in their eyes he came across as being arrogant. In addition, Mozart's close friend in a letter wrote that he'd hoped Mozart had half the talent but double the people skills so I guess Mozart failed to read the room more often than not....hence adding to his "arrogant" reputation.
anyways, love your review, and love your whale sweat even more!
With massive talent like that and left a massive legacy to the humanity. The man has every reason to be just himself be arrogant or what. But he seemed to be a fairly normal guy to hang out with. He was not particularly quirky as “geniuses” usually are. He appreciated “musical mere mortals” like some of his students, Aloysia as a soprano (his crush before Constance), Anton Stadler the best clarinetist of his time, Emanuel Schikanerder the not so good Papageno, and the guy who’s a French horn virtuoso, and he tailor composed according to their talents and limitations. That’s very generous of him for someone been reverend as a demi-god in the realm of music :)
Anyone who's ever participated in improvisation knows that it's actually the height of cooperation, not competition.
Very true.
The main complain on the Chevalier movie violin scenes is that originally they had a violin double and then they decided to have the actor do it because they thought it was cooler 🤦🏻♂️… and people have been extremely defensive on it because the dude did a lot of intensive work as a a beginner to emulate the playing.
The whole movie looked so fake and anachronistic from the long trailer that I didn’t go see it after I had wanted to previously. It felt like it was for children and from people who don’t understand that people thought and acted differently in the past. Even their body language was different.
People like to get defensive about an actor doing their job. But Ray's point is right on the money, he was a legit violinist and composer, he deserves to be shown with that respect.
@@M_SC i have recently watched the movie and it is very anachronistic, the way they set it up from the get go, we have Mozart and Bologne playing together but the age gap between them is none existent they are pretty much the same age here when in reality by the time of the late 1770s to early 1780s Mozart was a teenager and bologn was like...30 something, and i'm not entirely sure but i don't recall them playing any of Bolognes music, other than the opera Earnestine, and there are plenty of pieces in the soundtrack but i have no clue as to whether or not it's Bolognes or just some other persons work, i mean i have to assume it is his, but we never really see him playing them, and i understand that alot of his works have been destroyed and with regards to the actors limitations as a violinist probably played a part aswell.
and it's also like Ray said in the video there are a lot of jazz/blues references in the movie which tells me this was made for a specific audience in mind, i wouldn't say it's for kids, i mean the films filled with swears and nudity, but like maybe moreso for teens and adults, on the other hand i don't really think the blues/jazzy effects where really needed, i get it's to show Bolognes vertuosic mind i guess, but they don't really fit in with the pieces especially with what Bolognes music actually sounded like, with the violin duel especially they probably could have done a lot with how similar his music is with Mozarts and how he goes about writing differently...
sorry for the long post lol, but these are just the stuff that i noticed when watching.
edit: spelling
@@BaragonProductions That's kinda sad if they truly didn't play many of his works... I didn't watch the movie for clarification, but he made so many great pieces that it would feel much more respectful and would help show the world "Hey there's someone who isn't white that was AMAZING and helped contribute to the world of music back in such a difficult time!" Seeing them add the jazzy parts in that clip got me a bit concerned that it also might not be historically accurate, maybe even worse than Amodeus which while having some form of accuracy, has a lot of things that didn't happen and were just to make the movie more dramatic/entertaining. Really hope they didn't just make things up and be like "Teehee, just ignore that inaccuracy while we use this guy's prestige for our own benefit~" and instead actually made it historical but entertaining
@@dragomon2 so i looked up the soundtrack and the pieces by Joseph Bologne they do have are as follows:
Violin Concerto in G Major
String Quartet in D Major Op. 1, No. 6
String Quartet in E Flat Major Op. 1 No. 2
Scena from "Ernestine"
and that's it...
other pieces they have from other composers are:
O cessate di piagarmi from "Il Pompeo" by Alessandro Scarlatti
and of course Mozart Concerto No. 5 in D major.
the rest is all OST
Joseph Prowen (the actor who played Mozart) is a violinist in real life. He's probably better known as a violinist than as an actor.
The bio at Joseph Prowen's personal website says that he passed ABRSM Grade 8 on violin, also plays guitar and banjo, and sings tenor.
@@JonAhlquist only passed?
@@BooksAndShitButNotLiterally It doesn't give the grade, only that he did it. His formal training was in acting. Still pretty good, I think it's unlikely that very many actors have grade 8 in anything...
I just can't stop thinking, that it's Brett laughing in Amadeus scenes XD
"His ego is either too large or too frail" - wow, what a deep sentence.
I have loved the movie Amadeus since I was a kid, despite its factual inaccuracies, and a big reason why is because the music is incredible. Sir Neville Mariner conducting the Academy of St Martin of the Fields chamber orchestra is sublime! It is a tribute to the lasting genius of Mozart. I have not seen Chevalier, but I wish they had featured Bologne's music more. This composer deserves so much more than to be the cheesy 18th century version of Drumline.
With Chevalier, I wish they'd stuck to his own music and history, which were remarkable enough. :( They didn't need to get anachronistic.
I was looking forward to this movie and then when I saw the long trailer preview thing I thought no, I already see too many mistakes and I’m no one, certainly not an expert.
@@M_SC He was such an interesting person! They didn't need to zhuzh his life up!
Would you really expect anything else from the pathetic state of woke movie making/destroying. 😩
I know, bologne's music was amazing. its actually crazing that im seeing him a video, since i just played his 12th symphony at a concert a few hours ago
@@4uRicki historical inaccuries and hollywoodizing history has always been around remember braveheart and bridge over the river kwai
I like blues, but as they use it to separate Balones music from Mozarts I think is a little bit racist. Because Balone was a French composer and musician. So he wrote classical music, and played classical music. His skin color did not influence the music he played. And since Blues has afro-american influences it is not frensh, not from this time and not related to Balone in any way.
Love the thumbnail, Ray! By the way, thank you so much for these videos! I always appreciate them!
Glad you liked it hahaha I thought it was a tiny bit scary but happy not everyone thinks so!
@@RayChenViolinist Your welcome, Ray!
@@RayChenViolinist I really love the effort and dedication you have towards these videos. It always brightens my day to watch your reactions and playing. Thank you!
Mozart probably wasn't arrogant... it's just that "People throw rocks at things that shine" :P
The little march Salieri "composed" for this scene is actually a dumbed-down version of the aria Non piu andrai, from the Marriage of Figaro, and the "variation" Mozart produces is the real version from the opera. It's a march, when Figaro is making fun of Cherubino and says he needs to join the military and stop hitting on his wife.
Love your commentary-it’s smart, succinct, accessible, educational,and entertaining, all at once. Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective with us.
And that sums it up!
Isn’t singing or playing a melody part of aural testing in music exams?
There's a book I'm reading called Mozart's starling. Apparently he had a pet bird!! He even got some inspiration from that bird for some of his pieces. The European Starling is an invasive species to the US but they are super smart and mimic really well. I just thought it was interesting 😜👍
Charles Dickens also had a bird lol. I guess it’s a thing
Amadeus director's cut is the best one to watch. A 3 hours movie, if you are up for the task.
I have a wonderful set of 5 CDs of Bologne's violin concertos (not all of them; just a sample), and what strikes me most about how they differ from Mozart's is how often Bologne switches to the minor key for the development sections of many of his major-key first movements. His slow movements also tend to be longer than Mozart's in his violin concertos, whereas his finales tend to be shorter. But they're marvelous works, and well worth getting to know.
Actually the piano piece that the Emperor plays is based on the theme off 'Non piu andrai' from Mozart's opera Le nozze de Figaro.
Not my usual way of starting a day, normally I scan through the day's offerings and put most into 'Watch later." Couldn't pass this by and happy I didn't. I love listening to classical music and learning about the history of music. Thank you for making this information available.
Love this break down and comparison! As a former film student and classical musician, it's fun to see movies with actors portraying classical musicians. You can pick out what movie producers decided to spend their budget on and what to cut out.
Only keep in mind that these movie scenes are historically uninformed BS. Salieri was just 6 years older than Mozart, while Bologne was 11 years older. There never was a violin battle between young Mozart and young Bologne. And Salieri was not that middle aged amateur, jealous of young Mozart’s skill. Salieri was one of the absolute star composers of his time, and was said to be a modest and amicable person, and a huge inspiration for the young and ambitious Mozart (and actually did a lot to promote his work and memory after his death). Emperor Joseph II was not a musically interested, but untalented guy. He was playing cello on a professional level.
And Mozart himself was not this childish genious. Mozart did put a lot of work into his compositions. He was quite ambitious about his career and was one of the absolute star composers of his time. He liked to live and act like nobility and is estimated to have had an estimated annual income of 5000 fl. (about 150000$ of modern equivalent). For comparison: Mozart’s house maid would be paid 12 fl. annually (so about 30$ a month).
🌏Where are you watching from? Say hi with your country's emoji! I'm watching from 🇯🇵 today!
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I am surprised that you are in Japan and my heart beats fast.
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Sofia 🇧🇬
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what am i doing here? i havent even watched these movies 😂😂
Thanks for your efforts in helping us better understand music from this time period.
My absolute favorite violinist making a video about my absolute favorite composer and talking about my absolute favorite movie - this honestly can't get any better, this is almost too much to handle!!!
Ray definitely made this video just to flex that he can hear something once and play it just like Mozart
Awesome video! Ray's playing is spectacular, and his videos are really captivating. Ray, you are a global treasure, you should have like 10+ million subscribers!
The actor who played Mozart was in an episode of Midsomer Murders called ‘Curse of the Ninth’. Would love to see you evaluate it. As a previous comment mentions he is a musician.
You add English subtitles again⁈ I’m not good at English, so I’m very happy to read subtitles! Thank you!
Ray, I just wanted to say thank you very much. One of the reasons I LOVE watching, not just your videos, but Eddie and Brett's as well, is due to the fact that I learn so much. J
you should do a full video on Joseph bologne I think it's could be interesting
That was fascinating, Ray. Yes, despite what I'm hearing that Bologne's character had to start from scratch learning the violin, it would have done the music/film justice to have used a body double.
P.S. Gotta love that T-shirt of yours by the way!
my fav piece by bolonge is his 2nd symphony, i played in a concert and it is my favorite symphony from him
"if you sing or play an instrument" i dont think the voice community will be to happy about that one lmao
By the way Ray thank you so much for inspiring me to be better!
The violin battle is very reminiscent of the guitar battle in the movie "Crossroads." (the one with Steve Vai.) Even the facial expressions.
the intro is a masterpiece istg
Hi Ray! I'm watching from 🇭🇲. Love your video! So informative and entertaining at the same time. You make me laugh with your random jokes 😂😂. Greetings from Brisbane!!
❤❤See you soon. At the concert.❤❤❤
A duel _and_ a duo. Cool.
Motztotz was friends with Salieri, they'd often go to concerts together and share a carriage. Mozart wasn't very well known during his life, his music wasn't in line with the more popular styles at the time and his cavalier attitude towards his career and music caused a lot of grief to many around him. His lack of passion for his brilliance was frustrating for his contemporaries and employers. He just wanted to have fun and be free to enjoy life, but everyone watching were a bunch of stiffs and took music very seriously. Amadeus was more accurate in my opinion.
i don't normally comment on videos but i was really excited to see this pop up on my feed because i'm a longtime classical musician myself. also, i had to write a synthesis essay combining 4 sources as the "final exam" of my english class, and one of my main sources was amadeus. i studied salieri's character and possible motives extensively to defend my thesis so i thought i'd kinda just put that into a couple brief points here?
1. to be clear, while salieri resented mozart for many reasons, he highly (though begrudgingly) respected mozart and his work because it’s undeniably brilliant.
2. he felt constantly outshined by mozart and was later betrayed by God (he was a devout catholic but no matter how much he worshipped Him, the favour was never returned, which for salieri was a life-changing betrayal). mozart’s talents seem to come with ease even though he never worked for them, yet despite salieri’s hard work, he believed he could never truly be on mozart’s level; nothing he created was nearly as great or as divine.
to conclude: all the mixed feelings + the jealousy this creats lead him to various actions that i won't spoil. so yeah, that’s that! thanks ray (if you ever see this) for the great video! :)
That was fun. Thank you!
Where do you buy your shirt? I love it ❤❤
I am not a big expert on this, but to me it sounds like when the classical moved into something more blues-like it also sounded a bit like moving from classical music to something more folk like, which for an upper class audience would probably be considered outrageous.
I may be absolutely wrong though.
Thanks a mil for the review, SallieRAY! 🤭
The duel, I think, it's mostly inspired in Hendrix and Clapton famous duel in London.
I realize that this new UA-cam-frequency is advertising for Tonic. But, still I'm really enjoying these videos.
i think the guy that wrote the score for the movie Amadeus was even better than John williams. the guy's name was wolfganga amadeus mozart.
I love Amadeus.
And now I know more things about Mozart which I can put towards practising his 5th violin concerto!
Ray, you're amazing! Come to Tanglewood! What do you make of Rachel Barton Pine's heavy metal?
‘Zart was a musical genius surrounded by people who probably were not but thought they were, themselves, great. While he was probably confident in his skills and perhaps even seeking fun, but arrogance isn’t mutually exclusive to those things. He was probably pretty arrogant without realizing it the way we point it out. He probably recognized he was much better than his average contemporaries.
Side note: i was lucky enough to go to Salzburg and walk through his Geburtshaus!! I think I recall there being more narrow staircases than I had expected.
I need to know where this sweatshirt is from! 😍
14:37 Definitely caught me off guard 🤣
“historically，never mind” 😂
Chevalier = shu (as in shut) val lee ai (as in eight)❤ love your channel
possibly my favorote movie scene is when mozart remixes salieris diddy 😂
You should see Ludwig van Beethoven 2020, Mozart is so badass in the scene where they first meet
Mozart, Newton, Magnus, Elon, and others will all be remembered as arrogant people just because there are more people jealous and trying to bring them down and these guys were/are too busy to care for them.
Cute sweater you are wearing! :-)
OMG ray i need to know where you go that shirt
Huh, I thought we were reviewing mozart, and not a twoset style roast on the fake playing.
All the same, I love Ray Chen and many ❤❤❤ to him.
Great video as always Ray. I have heard of Mozart but never found time to actually watch it as of yet. I don't have Hulu so I missed the other film. As a learning musician though I am glad to see these redemptions of music films coming out to the spotlight again it's been awhile. But really glad to see these types of films being made again in recent years. Also hope to see ya live someday over down here in socal. :)
the shark sweater is so cute 🥹🦈
Mozart played the viola as well as violin
Mozart did do musical duels, but I think he did them on keyboard, piano or harpsichord.
안녕하세요❤❤❤
한국에서 Ray님의 연주를
두 눈으로 볼 수 있어서 정말 뜻깊은 오늘이였습니다.
제 옆자리에 대만분이 앉아계셨었는데
아마 지금쯤 Ray님의 친필 사인을 받고 계실거예요.😊
저는 버스시간 때문에 ㅠ.ㅠ.
사인회를 기다리지 못하고 아쉽게 집에 갑니다. 😅
정말 진짜 아주 특별하고 멋진 연주였습니다.
완전 감동이였어요.❤❤❤
p.s 옆자리의 타이완분은 한국 여행중이였는데
Ray님을 만날 수 있어서
정말정말 큰 행운을 만나셨을 거예요😊
물론 저도 마찬가지입니다.
한국에 와주셔서 진심으로 감사드립니다.
❤❤❤
참, 오늘밤에는 아마데우스 영화를 한 편 보고 잠들어야 겠네요
그럼 또 기회가 있다면, Ray님 공연 꼭 갈께요
감사합니다.
😊😊😊
❤❤❤welcome to korea❤❤❤❤❤❤
Sometimes when I play I’m not even in the room anymore when you play you look like your noticing the music almost as if it’s a surprise is that intentional or is that just your natural way I’ve seen a lot of your playing and every time your bright on the happy notes and serious on the dark!
By the way love the videos especially how quick you picked up the movies rendition! Stay safe god bless!
Ray nice video! Could u react to other music movie? its name is "the red violin" by francois girard.
I don't like it when historical movies are deliberatery not accurate. Trading it for more "action and cool" is a bad trade.
If you haven’t seen the genius of Mozart or the genius of Beethoven I think are the best interpretations of these composers
Except for them being widely outcasts from society which I think is wrong but
what historical information can one gain from those two entertaining movies? If you wish to have music explained, you should listen to Bernstein's excellent lectures.
Great video and loved your jokes 😃
I just don't really get why the violinist / actor playing Mozart didn't help his colleague and didn't weed out the really obvious mistakes of his "violin playing" (e.g. the chicken elbow, the high raised shoulder, and especially playing the high notes on the lower strings). 🤷♂
14:24 14:27 14:58 17:53
You should react to Mozart in the movie Il Boemo about Czech composer Josef Mysliveček
Mozart is my favorite comozer
Mozart was surely a Superstar in his time :)) But Salieri lived a much longer life :))
I have always wondered about the scene of Salieri being humiliated by Mozart. Why did Salieri write something so "easy" and "simple" (not my point in being pretentious by using this adjectives that also contained "almost obvious" errors in terms of resolution?
As if it was somewhat forced to for Salieri, while the film leaves him as inferior to mMozart, he was no beginner either. I want to believe. Like, really, the great Salieri wrote this for the King?. Greetings!
I have a feeling he wrote that "simple" melody because he knew the emperor wasn't a virtuoso, so he probably wrote for the emperor's skill level
Think my comment got modded because of a link, but the movie Amadeus is wildly inaccurate. That scene didn't happen, and Salieri and Mozart were colleagues.
The Salieri melody is a tune from Mozart's opera that the moviemakers reverse engineered into something simple so that the Mozart character could improve it. That's pretty much the only reason. But you're right, it still shortchanges Salieri who was a competent composer irl.
He wrote this because in fact he didn’t. This is used to feed an historically inaccurate narrative. The film is an adaptation of a fictional play by Pushkin.
@@TheVoitelyou know that even if something didn't happen in real life it's still intentional and needs to be justified. It's how writing and criticism work. If Salieri spontaneously combusted in the third act you couldn't just say: well that was a bit weird but none of it matters because it's all fiction anyway.
At 14:27 he plays a bottom G but there is clear vibrato…VIOLA?!?!
Ray Chen Mozart in thumb is blursed lol
Wait did you say touches on pot!! Uhm I’m telling lmao!! Love your videos bro but especially love watching you play you are truly one of a kind and a destined to be one of the best violinist’s in the world and guess what after watching you I now know I need to practice damnit lol!! Thank you for inspiring a world of musicians we need more like you and Ms. Hahn to share your stories and knowledge oh and of course twoset all of you should be commended for contributing to the your arts!! Thank you!
Do you know, that films are mostly not historically accurate 😊.
In reality Salieri was helping Mozart, he could appreciate his music, but probably don't like his jokes.
He also lent him some money, never got them back, didn't complain.
if they are about historic people or events, it should be important that even if they change some stories so it's more .. entertaining, that they stay in character, otherwise it's falsifying history.
It's a movie for entertainment and not a documentary. Of course it won't be 100% accurate.
I think what mozart do like variation it just like modification and saliery still he can wrote song from nothing to something. We can make modification if we get inspiration from the original ones.its very difficult to wrote note from scratch and easier to make varietion from them like mozard do. So the term of " jenius" in music is little bit awkward since we play music by heart not brain..Also we enjoy the piece not because it was composed jeniously but it was composed then its move our feeling and our atmosphere surounding..
3:24 (Smack the Mozart head) BONK?
Amadeus the movie is adapted from Puskin's dramma Amadeus which is more than 70% fiction.Mozart did not really have a life of his own till his father died in 1787.
Mozart in amadeus was very funny 😂
Yeah ! Baroque'n'Roll !
Can we get chevalier realistic dub
Being genius and extremely arrogant and narcissistic is quite a common inside the extraordinary.
You have to understand a few things... life then was very different and very dark and bleeding. There were no medications that were really effective. Many many children died. Mozart himself was a sickly child. It's a far cry from today. I feel personally Mozart was superior to bach and Beethoven. I admire all 3 but Mozart moved me emotionally the most. It was an extremely competitive time to be at that level. Thought Rosenberg jokes (too many notes) in Amadeus, it was not a stretch to ears accustomed to composers of that time.. it's like Elvis on guitar vs van Halen, alot of ppl simply were not ready or blown away by Mozart. He had to navigate through that era to survive.
Salaiere was no joke himself either.. and ppl have always overlooked Mozarts sister who was also tremendously gifted. But, it was a more chauvinistic and traditional time hence being a wife and mother was the absolute goal then. So again one must consider the situational time back then. Thank you for this video..I was in orchard at the north Carolina school of the arts in the 1980s. Cello back then, but I always loved dance music new wave and the kind of bass lines that if you were not fit, the whole thing went to hell.. I always loved thar pressure and I'm 50 and still play all the time.
Damian
I'd like to see source materials from historical documentation rather than assume the film directors got it right. Not sure if those journals are available, or if they even exist. It's all speculation otherwise, imo. I do think the society does wrestle with the idea that some of the artists they really admire might not have been the best of dinner companions.
That’s disingenuous. The material is there and it’s not long lost stuff. I saw a documentary about him on UA-cam years ago. If you wanted to know anything about him you’d known by now.
It's not "disingenuous to question filmmakers' takes on historical figures without seeing the source documents. If you have a link to such papers, that would be ...more helpful.@@M_SC
Now I need to go watch Amadeus for the umpteenth time. Such an amazing film! I was initially interested in Chevelier but after this I think I'll pass.
It’s probably still a good movie to see, but maybe use it as a jump-off to read more of his life and music.
It IS AN ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT film!!!! I've seen both the director's cut and the one released in the cinemas. In my opinion, the director's cut is even better than the one they released in '84, because contains all the scenes they originally deleted.
Do you like Soprano?
While it isn't about violins, Ray, have you ever seen Immortal Beloved? It's about Beethoven.
My go-to mozart interpretation, for sheer funness: Mozart L'Opera Rock. A rock concept album about his life, much like Jesus Christ Superstar.
7:08 🤣 HAHAHAHHAhahahaah!
9:54 chicken wing 🤨
Can you play a Jimi Hendrix solo on your violin?! then transition into classical! hahaha not on an electric violin tho...
Claim your “early” ticket here!
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今日の、Videoは、多岐にわたって、楽しいものがありました、と、同時に、ぜひ、参考に、したいものです。
Dear Ray, please know that I will get nightmare from the thumbnail of this video..