This channel is crazy underrated. I like what he said about wresrling. I think bjj should turn into wrestling. Get a belt if you do good in comp. Unless you are a john danaher who has trained many champions. If you are a full-grownn man and think you should get a belt for just showing up means you have a mental problem. The real goal in combat sports is to be able to physically overcome another man. If you cant do that you dont deserve a belt.
Recently started cross training Judo and at least here in Australia the promotion criteria is very black and white (which I prefer compared to BJJ). There are competitive, knowledge and service and knowledge only routes for promotion. The competition route roughly halves the time between promotions compared to knowledge only. If you compete, do well and can demonstrate the techniques you'll rank up quickly, if you can't compete you can gain points towards a promotion by coaching or refereeing. Knowledge only is generally only avaliable if you physically cannot compete and means you can't be promoted above 3rd Dan. I feel its as objective a system as you can get. Sucks for older guys (30+) but that's just judo in general.
Thanks for this. Yeah the only understanding I have is from my sensei who is a 7th degree blackbelt in judo and is 100% stringent on not promoting unless you compete. He is actually the same way with his BJJ too (he is also a blackbelt in Jiu Jitsu).
I feel like the belt system just makes it too easy for the status to go to someone’s head. I think one of the big differences between wrestling and BJJ is how the public views you. If you wrestled in HS and college then you’re viewed as being pretty tough but in BJJ if you’re a Blackbelt then everyone sees you as an ultimate badass. It almost seems like the belt becomes part of their identity, instead of just trying to get better. Thanks for all the great content btw and I really enjoy your explanations and technique breakdowns!
Thanks man. Wow do I really not have that?? Holy shit! I know that I put some of that on my instructional, but definitely not everything I do from there
Judo here in Canada gives recommendations to clubs for grading below brown belt (ikkyu). But it’s still up to sensei. When your coach gives you a brown belt and now you compete with the majority of the player base in the brown and blackbelt division. It switches to a points system, minimum 1 year as a brown belt then if you have enough points (you’ve killed every division you competed in) you can get your sensei’s approval and do the kata test for blackbelt. It repeats for more and more points and more time in grade every dan level. Alternatively if you’re broken and can’t compete you do get a good amount of points per year of being active and can do non competitive roles to get points. 120 points for shodan, 10pt for ippon win, 7 for wazari, 0 for DQ/walkover win, 5 for competing. 25 per year active in judo, and 5 for refereeing in a comp
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 it is! Im an American living in Canada and seeing the wild west of standards set by the 3 major American judo organizations is unfortunate
No. It’s entirely up to the coach of that gym to determine when you’re ready to receive a promotion. It’s nothing more than a clock that measures time differently for everyone.
In my opinion, the nice thing about the jiu jitsu belt system is that it's not just based upon skills, it's also based heavily upon knowledge. In the case of someone like John Danaher, he knows more about jiu jitsu than almost anyone alive. That being said, I think he'd be one of the first to say that skills are also an important aspect of the ranking - if you have no ability to apply the knowledge you have, then you should not be ranked yet. I think where the disconnect often happens is when comparing athletes to one another. In jiu jitsu, the way you are compared is primarily to yourself, and to your own potential. In other words - if someone comes in with a higher capacity to achieve things in jiu jitsu, they have a higher standard before they get promoted, because their potential is greater. For someone with lower potential, be that due to age or other factors, the standard is lower. However, there is a baseline of understanding and applied skill that is required, and some people will top out at a certain belt level. In other words, it's murky, and that's not necessarily a problem. It's not completely objective, but it's not completely subjective either, and that's actually good for the health of the sport, at least as a recreational activity. The belts probably should have very little to do with competition, especially at the top level. And as we have seen with the growth of ADCC and nogi competition, this is increasingly becoming the case. For Jay Rod, the belt doesn't matter. For Joe Shmo who has a 9-5, the belt system is excellent for tracking your progress and giving you achievable goals.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 The weakness of the system is that it relies heavily on the integrity and good judgement of the instructor. If you have a great instructor, the belts have a range of skill level within them, but it's close enough that you ought to be at least competitive with students of the same belt level at local tournaments. If you have a bad instructor, you get people who are getting belts simply for time on the mat. I think being at a school that values competition without pushing it is a really good way to thread this needle.
One of the things that kept me out of wrestling, and sports in general, in high school was the concept of cuts. While I'm against participation trophies, it intimidated me against ever trying. And growing up I had the identity of being kinda nerdy, so internally, wrestling wasn't an activity that "I did". Ironically, during this time I was exploring my athleticism, and so when our P.E. class did wrestling - I had a blast! I was fortunate that my Jiu-Jitsu coach was a lifelong wrestler, and that the local university's wrestling team would train in our club. They allowed me to join them... and holy shit were classes tough. Belts don't matter much to me, I just want to be able to train and improve. As my coach said, "Personally, if you can beat a blackbelt... you're a blackbelt."
My highschool team never cut anyone, because you never know when someone will come into their time. I wrestled with guys who were JV all the way to their senior year and then make it to state
The belt is a symbol of demonstrable knowledge in the art of Jiu Jitsu not a measuring stick between who would win on the mats. Factors such as age, weight, and over all fitness will always play a part in terms of performance. Over time all of our physical abilities will diminish but our knowledge and technical understanding will increase. If you want to rise in rank then focus on truly understanding the totality of the art not just a small skill set that you can win with.
Tell me about it…I am much more knowledgeable about wrestling than I was coming right out of collegiate wrestling, but my 22 year old self would work my 44 year old self. Lol. I know a few black belts who aren’t that knowledgeable. Lots of time but not lots of knowledge. I think people correlate time too much with knowledge and that’s my point in this video. Some places seem to be based off time and not skill, like the mcdojo sandbag school I was at before
Coming in again as someone in their 40s (I started at 39 too) with a wrestling background. I think your observation on wrestling having no ranks and is for competition is right on the money. As for BJJ, I think there is an understanding that there are hobbyist and competitors. As a hobbyist, I am under no delusion that I am on equal footing with competitors. The belt ranking for competitors should be on performance and not arbitrary weight times like IBJFF has. Danaher explained that he is not purposely holding back his students belts, but since they compete in IBJFF, they are beholden to the their belt ranking time system, which should have exceptions for say ADCC trial winners. For us hobbyists, as long as we know our belt is not the same as a competitors belt, I think a combination of time in and skill is fine for promotion. We in BJJ sometimes are too serious, I am old father of a bunch of kids, with a full time job, but I make time to do BJJ and I think its pretty fair to get a belt for time, money, and sweat in to get promotions as long as there is also some skill requirement. I think the presence of rolling always grounds you. If you are constantly provides to humility you need. Also, doing this for 10 years is quite an accomplishment and I think there is nothing wrong with a hobbyist black belt. Again, rolling will show how good you really are... Great video Dr. Breza.
These are great points and I definitely agree with all of it. I am super banged up from years of grappling. I also have two kids, a wife, and a very demanding job. Speaking of the latter, I find it hilarious when people scrutinize every word I say and tell me I should have said it like this. Lol! Bro, this is a hobby of mine not a full time job. I am not writing these out before I do them. Lol! A major point I was trying to make is that criteria is somewhat clear for judo and ultra clear in wrestling. The United States Judo Federation has a study guide to aid in the assistance of students preparing for promotion. My sensei’s criteria are ultra clear. My body is wrecked, so I 100% am in it for the knowledge and experience. I don’t have the answers, but in my experience the criteria for promotion in BJJ is very much in the hands of the professor with seemingly no guidebook like there is for Judo (in the US). Most people who compete often know that there are blue belts and competition blue belts. A guy at my old school was a competition blue belt and wrecked everyone.
I’m 57 now, got my Judo black belt 18 years ago…I competed a ton back then, got my green belt meritoriously by winning a regional tournament…I started BJJ 5 years ago because my body can’t take doing Judo anymore AND there really aren’t any Judo clubs anywhere near me…I WAS a pretty damn good grappler, now I’m just mediocre. I’ll NEVER be a legit BJJ black belt, honestly I’m not even a legit Judo BB anymore…the best I can hope for at this point is to get past my blue belt and be a solid purple belt someday, and I’m ok with that.
I get that totally man. I blew my knee out in judo back in August 2 weeks before a judo competition. I absolutely love Judo, but I don’t think that I should do it anymore. I didn’t even do anything crazy. I just went for hari goshi and my knee rotated. Tore my ACL completely and destroyed my meniscus. It had to be sewn back together. I was a D1 wrestler, but I am definitely not going to walk into a collegiate room and be like I was. So I started doing BJJ and like it a lot. If I make it to blackbelt then fine, but maybe I don’t. I will still train until my body can’t take it anymore
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 I’ve had to change my whole mindset brother…and I’m still not completely there yet. My goal for every class now is to get a decent workout in and NOT get injured, not to “win” rolls. I like to help coach the younger more competitive guys with their standup game, but my days of going hard are way behind me…thanks for your channel, I really enjoy your stuff!
@seabeebillm pretty much the same here man. It kills me that my body just doesn’t hold up. Breaking things and tweaking things constantly. Always against people who aren’t experienced and have something to prove. In over 3 decades, I have never injured anyone in a practice, but I have been injured so many times. When I get back to newaza, I am going to choose my partners wisely. It’s all I can do at this point. Thanks for your support brother
I come from a wrestling background too, and I can definitely say that the belts are only good for keeping the gi tied around your waist. Only competing and learning from someone better than you in each discipline matters. People focus on belts for status, that's why there are self-appointed 10th degree black belts in other art forms. Instead of asking what is the black belt rank worth, you should ask yourself what am I gaining from training? For some that means better health, for others its confidence. So long as its not for ego, any consistent training you do makes you a badass.
At my age and after 33 years of this, it’s all about being able to continue it. Longevity is the goal. And while that might not sound difficult to a young guy, it’s hard as an older guy who’s suffered a tremendous amount of injuries. Just trying to keep rolling because it’s the best exercise there is and such a giant part of who I am
The belts are a necessary evil in a way. The belts are a major motivator for people whose life isn't seriously committed towards bjj, coming second only to the communal aspect to bjj. Without the belts, I think attendance would drop and people would quit much earlier. Ideally we just have a bunch of Coach Breza's where the satisfaction of self-actualizing thru the sport (i.e. internal motivation) is enough to persevere in the sport thru injuries, self-doubt, etc. The reality is that external factors (the belt) play a powerful role - even in people who have strong internal motivation. This creates that foundation of hobbyists that even allows the competitive scene to exist. Competition isn't a perfect solution either- it has complicating factors as well - ref bias, PEDs, brackets - but it's probably the most objective measure of skill. With that said, I've always thought of people refusing rank - let alone a black belt - from their instructor to be very arrogant. They are, in a way, saying that they are a better assessor of their skill than their own instructor. I think both "tiers" of belt rankings can exist together. Much like in wrestling, you pretty much almost instantly know how good someone is based on their grips and the resulting fatigue/control they exert. This is to say, I don't think it's that big a deal to give someone a black belt. You can be a black belt in your small gym - that's what I was. You can also be a black belt and test yourself at the highest levels.
This is an excellent response. I appreciate your insights. There is an element to BJJ that is inviting and celebrating. Wrestling is all about training to win and it’s never enough. The culture of wrestling I grew up in was that a win is not to be publicly celebrated. You put your head down, run off the mat and celebrate to yourself but don’t lose focus, because there are bigger and more important tournaments ahead. The BJJ environment is much more encouraging. At least in person. Online, everyone is a tough guy. Lol
Great video! I think the belt system needs to be revamped or taken away especially when it comes to competition. In ibjjf you’re only allowed to compete at your belt level which I dispise, but in adcc opens anyone can sign up for the advanced brackets, if you’re good you’re good no matter the belt is, as far as casuals who only train I feel there should be cap off for black belt. Either way mats don’t lie. 😅
I feel like their should be a cap to getting purple. I never been ranked but destroyed a purple belt from a pretty reputable name. Im not even a dude who trains consistently. Purple should be a level where you can handle any white belt unless its an absolutle freak of nature and handle even a decent wrestler who doesnt know bjj especially if you are the same weight. Purple should in no way be able to lose to a white belt who trains periodically who is the same size
@@kevinsho2601I agree, but what do you do with a purple belt who gets injured and can't train for a year or two. Or one who gets old? Do you take the belt away once he or she loses their competitive ability?
@imizaru9929 no if they earned it they earned it. I mean those are outlier cases once someone has it they have it. Its like a wrestler who won a state title. Do you take it away because he is old and cant beat some dudes he could have beat in the past.
@kevinsho2601 exactly. You might not be as good as you once were, but you should be able to still use technique to be effective. My judo coach is 76 years old and has excellent newaza. He can still pin the crap out of you, choke, and joint lock super well. Can’t do it hard for an hour, but he can still roll
Many of the current blackbelts have gained their rank with a knowledge that was not what it is today. There is no secret technique in judo, no secret technique in wrestling. Yet the bjj is still growing, it's still not quite a sport because of the discrepancy in knowledge in my opinion. Many blackbelts avoid leglocks like plague, here in France, whereas, some blue belts in other regions are absolutely killers with legs. Not knowing leglocks and being a black belt makes the belt system more intricate.
I think the belt system can be interpreted two different ways that are opposed to each other and I think depending on where you land on that spectrum you may value some aspects more than others. I think it's between individual vs comparative growth. Individual being about comparison of the past self and comparative being about where you rank compared to other people. I think when people talk about belts for hobby people vs competitors this is what they are talking about and I think everyone and their coach lands differently on that spectrum so we will see a wide variety of results. Also another factor to consider is what criteria is being considered. I think if you take a purely comparative approach as it relates to skill would you have to de rank people as they age and lose skill? I don't think anyone would do that which means that it can't be the only factor in most of our considerations. I rly think that for the most part the professional level competition begins not at belt but at skill. Like is Jay rod this or that belt well does it rly matter? I think the belt system allows for less experienced adults/ seniors/ hobby people in general to compete against each other and have competitive matches. I think that's mainly the biggest pro of the belt system. The only thing that can be said objectively is that it will be a never ending argument because everyone has their own standard.
As I said to another person on here, I definitely do not believe in demotion of rank. I would lose to my 21 year old self in a wrestling match, despite knowing more now. I do like the individual comparison thing. That’s always how I looked at myself. I received a tremendous amount of pressure from others to be the best and that definitely sucked. Competing against people your own age, rank, and size is about as fair as it gets. That could be useful for determining how much you know.
This is an odd conversation to me, because black belts in judo are absolutely something most everyone can get. In Japan, the idea of a black belt is mastery of the basics. Its an intermediate level. Even in North America where we fetishize the black belt more it takes "only" 5-10 years. (With a natural cap at 3rd degree for non-competitors.) Being an elite athlete is symbolized by winning competitions lol, the belt system rewards knowledge, technique, teaching ability, service to the sport, etc...
Yes, the criteria as somewhat clear for judo, which is my point. The United States Judo Federation has a study guide to aid in the assistance of students preparing for promotion. My sensei’s criteria are ultra clear. I am too old and destroyed from decades of wrestling to compete at a high level anymore, so I 100% am in it for the knowledge and experience. I have not laid out any criteria, but gave some examples of my own experiences with wrestling, judo, and bjj and just asking questions in the hopes for civil conversations.
I think for nogi we should just skip the belts completely. ADCC Opens have classes for beginnners, intermediate and professionals. That should be enough. I've comoeted against many GI black belts in nogi comps as a blue and purole belt and beat almost all of them. It's a complete joke nowadays. If youre good, youre good and evervbody knows it. There are too many black belts severly lacking in skill level.
Yeah NoGi is essentially becoming submission wrestling and like wrestling there aren’t categories of skill level. If I entered the US Open, I would/could have a young D1 wrestler in the first round. Been like 20 years since I have wrestled another All American. It was hard then, lol
Hmm I find quite a lot of misconceptions here... BJJ comes from judo. In judo, a black belt means you've completed the first step of training. BJJ black is a bit tougher, but to compare black belt with world champion is a complete misnomer. Second, saying judo has more objective testing is way off, especially the competition angle. Each dojo is different, each country is different, and even so, having a set of techniques everyone need to demonstrate really doesn't mean much in terms of objectivity. Most ppl can learn a technique vs a non resisting opponent, that means very little for competitions. We all know the person who can do one tech only, clearly not a black belt, but that person probably punches above his weight in competitions. I see the belts mostly as a guidance as to how "safe" and "competent" a student is. If someone is a blue belt, I'd expect they can roll safely, whereas a white belt may not. If you then take the judo meaning of black belt, then a black belt is basically just meant to be someone who is competent in most aspects of the game and can roll with people in many ways. That doesn't mean they can beat all ppl of lower rank, too many physical attributes play in there. A last example: many NBA players are not technically great at bball. But because they're huge, they can play on the highest level. That doesn't mean others aren't as technically good at b-ball. Edit: somehow I added this as a reply to a comment, was meant to reply to post directly
@stassenchr I gave examples from my Judo school and never took a side. Definitely never said that being a world champion is a requirement for a blackbelt.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 you said "I'm not saying you need to be a world champion to get a black belt but maybe not everyone should get one". What I'm trying to say is, that was never the intent of black belt rank to be even remotely close to being an elite competitor (in judo - BJJ doesn't have as much formal definition). Judo black belt as I stated was exactly that you have passed your initial stage of training, no more no less. BJJ coming from judo, the black belt is a similar thing, although in general it seems to take a bit longer to get. So to even speculate that you need certain tournament credentials to get a black belt is just misunderstanding what the belts are. If what you want to question is "what" a black belt should be, that's a different discussion from "how " you get one
I have wondered about this myself. I have been training coming up on 10 years now. Currently I train with a few guys who are at both ends of the spectrum. One guy trains 5-6 days a week 2 classes a day. He’s not athletic but he knows a ton of moves. He’s there all the time. But struggles to actually perform the moves himself. He was a blue belt when I started jiu jitsu and is a purple belt today. On the other end we have a guy who does the same 2-3 techniques over and over. Coaches plead with him to open and up and try something new but he just refuses. He has trained about 6 years and is a brown belt. He competes well and podiums at major events. He has no where near the technical knowledge the blue belt has tho. Between those 2 guys with my own journey and it seems like the criteria is all over the place. And that’s just one school. Heh.
Does competition performance matter at your school? Because it sounds like it. I’ve known wrestlers who have very few techniques that they use, but they are incredible at them. There is something to be said about that. Like I said in one of my recent videos “more moves doesn’t mean more medals.” But if the 3 things you do aren’t working then you definitely have a problem. Lol! Benardo was a master a deep half and the over under pass. I am sure he knows a lot more but those are what he relied on. I would guess that if his timing and set ups are awesome then he has a solid but limited game. I have heard from a few blackbelts how they didn’t really open up until after they got their black belt
Competition definitely isn’t required but we have a few guys who compete pretty regularly. I agree that you can’t really argue competition results. I just often wonder if there’s ever a scenario where mat time and knowledge alone is enough to reach black. I personally kind feel the same. Maybe black belts aren’t for everyone.
Personally, I think both systems can co-exist. In Judo competition, typically no one really cares about your belt rank. What people are looking at are your points, team placements, and (competition) rank. To me, a belt system from white to say 3rd degree is like “okay you understand the system, you can go off and teach.” Any degrees beyond that are really about what you’ve done for the sport so like… how many black belts you’ve produced, how many students you have, do you generate high level competitors, etc. In other words, I think there is overlap, but these can kind of be the their own things. The issue for me is less to do with belts or comp ratings and more to do with how popular discussion conflates competitive skill with the black belt in particular. Which is really a corruption of the idea-in Japan you’ll have high schoolers running around with black belts. The black belt isn’t all that and it never really has been, it’s just a symbol that you’ve got a good handle on fundamentals in a comprehensive way. If wrestling had belts, I’m sure we’d have high schoolers who would get black belt by those standards. For better or worse, I really just believe a lot of martial arts chatter in general is woefully uninformed. I know guys in BJJ and Judo who don’t even know the competition rules all that well, for example. I don’t know what can be done about it and I hate sounding like a prick, but I generally do think most people don’t actually know what they are talking about when it comes to these things. Which leads to these kinds of misunderstandings, conflating things, misinterpretations, etc.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Yeah I am biased by my experiences from my own judo school. The blackbelts we have are really good. My head sensei has very straightforward criteria for what it takes for each belt and it’s not easy. His son, my other sensei is a national champion in judo and pan am games champion in sambo. He was on the judo and sambo teams with Shintaro. They are good friends. They are incredible instructors and as a result our guys win a lot of shit. So my school probably isn’t the norm of what a blackbelt is. Their newaza is excellent. Both of my sensei’s have excellent newaza and blackbelts in Jiu Jitsu, which is also uncommon My video was about generation questions and ideas, not about me telling everyone how it is. It’s based off my experiences, which for judo are limited. The United States Judo Federation has a guidebook with pretty straightforward criteria for what a person should be able to do at each rank. One of my points was that in BJJ, it seems like the professor can just make a call however he seems fit whereas in judo at least there are pretty solid guidelines. In wrestling, it just takes care of itself through competition. That’s all I am saying.
Belts are belts and medals are medals... they kinda already represent different things IMO, and having the belt become essentially another competition-based reward kind of misses the point and seems redundant to me. I also think this is the difference between a martial discipline and a sport, and as BJJ has exploded in popularity and created its own (in some ways flawed) rulesets, the majority of modern practitioners have definitely lost sight of the martial aspect. Basically my idea is that belts are for martial artists, and martial artists, to me, are people who know better than to start a fight by sitting down and butt-scooting towards their opponent. Medals are for people who do that specific thing really well because they're playing a sport. You can do both and be both, which is why you can earn a belt and/or a medal, but they're separate.
This is an astute observation for sure! As I was saying in the beginning of the video, wrestling is a sport that you train for solely for competition. People generally don’t train wrestling to just learn it. Those who are learning it for BJJ have a reason to learn it. So this point you bring up is very sound. Thank you for your insights.
tbh, I don't think they really should be a belt system for bjj. But at the same time, it brings a sort of legitimacy in the absence of competition. For example Danaher got his black belt from Renzo Gracie, so even without his lack of competition experience ,you instantly know he's legit even before the dds and new wave were formed (Danaher also started when he was 28 and I believe he mentioned he was born with some physical issues with his hips,not entirely sure). So if a guys walks into the gym and says "I got my belt from X" you can at least tell he's not full of crap. Just my thoughts, I know it doesn't answer your question. Also, Roy Dean's demonstrations are voluntary for the person being promoted. Also, The belt system you described are usually for kids but I know that some organizations introduced it for adults as well. Edit: Wanted to add-Like me, for example,I'm a purple belt who's only competed a handful of times with like a 50% win rate lol. But at least when I tell people I'm a purple belt,they will know that I know some stuff lol (Feel like a white belt half the time tho)
Good points. Yeah it’s a double edged sword in many was. Danaher says he didn’t compete because of his knees, yet he had no issues with competing in Rugby and no issues with fighting drunk people as a bouncer. Anthony Robbles was born with one leg and is an D1 NCAA champion. I know several wrestlers with no feet who made it to D3, so wrestlers will find a way to compete. JJ Machado kicked ass with one fully functional hand. BJJ isn’t the only martial art that doesn’t require competition to rank. I was ranked on Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan as a kid and never competed. Having competed in hundreds and hundreds of wrestling matches, I can tell you that competition improves your grappling skills far more than you can do in practice alone. And again, a lot of people don’t want to improve that much, and I think that is fine. I don’t know whether I can ever compete again with my knee injury. So I am not taking a stance, but just to show how maybe the criteria ought to be more objective. When I train at other places, they say I am a sandbagger and should be a higher rank, but that has nothing to do with me because I didn’t determine my rank-my McSandbagger school did
For the individual, a black belt can be whatever- recognition by a peer, personal goal, or something else. For the art form and sport, it is a bit different. It is interesting to think about grappling sports without belts and how it is based on ranking. Perhaps the black belt just acts as a dopamine tool like a first stripe on a white belt. Of course there is massive nuance there but what changes when you earn a black belt from the non-competitor, non-teaching, or hobbyist perspective? Nothing except what you place upon it and what others place upon you.
Yeah it varies so widely across disciplines and schools. My old BJJ school was a classic money making scheme. He holds everyone back for an unnecessarily long time. And we weren’t a competition school, so it’s not like he was doing it so our guys were better off in competition. He said at one point to me that once you get your blackbelt you will leave. I said that I liked the training environment and had no plans to ever leave. But what I noticed was that most of the good training partners just ended up leaving because they got pissed off being a blue belt for 5 years while they kicked everyone’s asses. In contrast my Judo coach has an incredibly objective system. Rank is based on competition performance. You need to beat a belt rank above you 5x to get that belt. For example if you want to promote to brown, you need to beat 5 brown belts in competition. This means you are well within that rank. So you can’t be a black belt unless you beat 5 blackbelts in competition. It is as objective as it gets. And because he goes to every tournament with you, he knows what you need to work on and then that goes into your training. It clearly works or else he wouldn’t be a 7th degree black belt and his son wouldn’t be a multiple time national champion and Pan Am games champion
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 Interesting. My coach brought up this topic and one thing I thought would be universally accepted is the black belt divisions- teaching, competition, perhaps some version of both, and maybe black belt branding which already happens. But what I kept thinking about was without some single governing body that dictates an objective belt progression, not preferable in my opinion, there will be massive difference in what makes a BB. And ultimately what is harm? Would it be deception when a less than bb opens a school and starts unsuspecting students on a course they aren't prepared to guide them on? Maybe. I think an honest coach sets out their metric of evaluation and follows it. I'm also a 43 year old white belt that competes to put myself in uncomfortable situations- not necessarily for achievement and recognition. I check every box as a hobbyist so that's my perspective bias.
@bryanreinholdt1234 the “harm” I see is not being qualified to teach. The entire reason I started my channel was because I saw many people teaching wrestling who clearly had no formal education/training/knowledge of wrestling and Judo. There was a circular argument they hid behind, in that whenever someone called out their shitty technique they would say “oh this isn’t wrestling or judo it’s Jiu Jitsu.” That’s a bullshit argument when you are literally trying to teach wrestling and/or judo and using the names of those techniques from those disciplines. J Robinson, former head wrestling coach of the University of Minnesota and Olympian used to say “Learn it right and you’ll do it right the rest of your life. Learn it wrong and you’ll spend the rest of your life trying to get it right.” You will learn it wrong by a poser. Then you have to unlearn your mistakes, and it’s hard to break bad habits. There is a reason that at 44 years old, I can outwrestle 25 year olds in BJJ who have been doing BJJ for 7 years and outweigh me by 50lbs. And there’s a reason that I can’t wrestle with D1 guys anymore even though I was D1. Because the wrestling being taught in Jiu Jitsu fucking sucks, and it’s because it’s being taught by people who never wrestled. So, essentially faking a blackbelt in wrestling. I see it as no different than having a blackbelt that you earned by paying dues. Either you have the skills you are teaching or you don’t, but don’t fucking lie about it. 90+% of people teaching wrestling for BJJ suck at wrestling. And as a result, wrestling in BJJ sucks. My goal of this channel is to give people the tools they need so they can be good on their feet, escape, and control on the mat using classic wrestling. After I build a library of information, I will walk away from it. I am not in this for any other reason other than to help people improve their wrestling skills in BJJ and submission grappling.
Getting promoted in Judo was much clearer than getting promoted in BJJ. Been at blue belt for over 5 years. Not sure what I need to do to get promoted. Probably compete and win more often.
This is exactly what I am talking about! We had blue belts for 7 years at our school who were wrecking the purple belts. And my coach didn’t care about competition. He just changed the distance of the goal posts constantly
So Bjj blue belt here. The reason time in grade leads to promotion is the accumulation of knowledge. How much do you know? Knowledge of variations, escapes, defenses and counters makes a difference in performance on the mat. So does atheticism, endurance, weight, flexibility, etc. Time on the mat correlates to knowledge gained. Being a black belt is NOT elite, in fact, it is just the beginning for the serious martial artist.
The main reason it's so hard to explain what curriculum you need to know in order to advance to the next belt is that jiujitsu is vast like an ocean. You can drown in it and there are many styles of swimming. Roy Dean, Robson Moura and others have put together belt requirements on DVD. But their way is just that, their way. There are other paths to reach the goal. You can be stronger in some areas and weaker in others. You can specialize. Open guard, closed guard, leglocks, armlocks, chokes, side control, mount, rear bount, escapes... the list is waaaay longer. At the end of the day, a belt level is a feel your ground game has. But it can vary.
I never took a stance in my video and said that on purpose. One would think that time correlates to knowledge but I know people with a lot of time who have little skill and people with little time with a lot of skill. Like I was saying on the video, at my old school, people are still blue belts often 7 years in, because blue belt is the 5th belt. So at my old school the criteria was not the same as it is for most schools I have been to. And yes, to my point, the blackbelt is not an elite belt rank, because it is based off time. The questions I proposed was whether a blackbelt should be elite. Again, I tried to make it clear that I am not taking a stance and said that several times. It would benefit me the way the criteria currently is, because I “just need to keep showing up” like Danaher says. At my age, that’s not the easiest goal, because after 33 years of grappling my body is wrecked
@@Agtren it’s a lot like wrestling in that regard. As a retired from competition wrestler who started BJJ five years ago, it was nice that I didn’t have to train like I did in wrestling-constantly having to climb the internal ranking system to get the chance to compete. For me, BJJ in the Gi gave me a lot more things to learn, but still felt familiar in a lot of the movement patterns of wrestling. It’s actually why I like the Gi.
You were wondering why despite having a strong wrestling background you were initially low ranked in BJJ. There are two reasons. 1. Machismo and competition between BJJ and other fighting styles. My style is better than your style. 2. After receiving a belt from your coach you represent him and his school. Your coach wants to be sure you don't embarass him. You'll eventually, once you get your black belt (keep training for a long ass time, like over a decade and you will) be expected to teach bjj basics the classical way.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459No, I don't think black belt should be elite anymore than college degrees are elite. Yes, it can sometimes be hard to explain why someone gets good faster, but it's also well known that people LIE about their experience. Some people just want to pull a fast one on you.
You have to take into account that wrestling all of you are young and about the same age, jiu jitsu rooms have to contend with massive age differences weight differences ect, also im not sure competing a bunch should be necessary, just being able to beat good people consistently is grounds for promotion.
“All of you are young?” Lol! Yeah 26 years ago I was a senior in highschool. I understand that as I am 44 years old and with 33 years of numerous injuries from wrestling and judo. I do BJJ because it’s easier on the body. I am not sure that competing all the time is the right option for me. I have over 1,000 matches in wrestling competition. But, maybe I am not fit for a blackbelt
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 haha, man if you can use jiu jitsu to consistently tap higher belts and good players just at your gym thats grounds for promotion. Thats really all you need
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 honestly at the end of the day if your not trying to be a serious competitor you want your jiu jitsu to allow you to defeat better players and bigger bodies, so if your not learning leg attacking and getting to the back maintaining and finishing from the back, then as far as self defense you are doing yourself no favors.
Purple belt here Getting a belt from someone in the sport who has skills that are respectable feels like an acknowledgment that you're on the right path and you're getting better. If I got promoted by someone who is ass at BJJ it would be kind of a bummer. Other than being able to test yourself against other upper belts in competition and the acknowledgment, belts doesn't really matter. Would be cool to have a black belt, but it would be up to me to keep my skills sharp to keep having it earned, you know? I agree that having a black belt should mean you're a part of the elite, but at the same time it would feel wrong to strip someone of their belt because they're not training as much and has lost their edge. It's also costly to compete Getting the stripes on the black belt is bullshit though, you can step of the mat for the rest of your life and pay IBJJF the yearly fee to keep getting stripes
I definitely do not believe in demotion of rank. I made a few versions of this video and in one of them (I don’t think it was this one) I said how my 21 year old self would demolish me in wrestling. That doesn’t take away from my accomplishments. But when someone starts BJJ at 65 and gets a blackbelt at 75, what does that really mean? Just wondering, because I am not the authority on this. I personally think it matters…like I couldn’t enter D1 now and perform the way I did as a 21 year old, despite knowing more
I disagree on this one, i like the subjectivness and belt system. 1) the bulk of jujitsu is made up of amateurs in the truest sense of the word. Therefore, jujitsu should be based of accessibility, self-improvement, and enjoyment. 2) if you want to be a world champ, go be a world champ 3) what happens as a higher belt ages should their belt be taken away? No thats ridiculous 4) as long as a school has a competitive element (meaning they engage in even just local tourneys) the belts do feel like a decent snapshot imo. Sure, theres stastitcal outliers due to popularity of the sport but I feel like the bell curves are where they generally should be. 5) theres quite a few higher belts ive handled, but thats only cause ive started in the new age were i was given more tools (my school trains us in footlocks, wrestling and nasic judo early on), they all have had better technical proficiency at alot of stuff im not. Hell, I've added to my game a lot of details they do. I think knowledge is important. 7) why get too worried about some arbitrary standard? Them mats dont lie. And jujitsu is fragmented.
Disagree? I never took a stance on it. I simply posed a few questions. I don’t agree with demotion. I wouldn’t be able to outwrestle myself at 22 coming out of D1 wrestling, despite knowing more.
Belts don't mean much in other combat sports. In BJJ the problem is that competitions are based on belt levels. This makes it messy. A blue belt can kill higher belts in training but it will not help him if he does not get promoted to a higher level.
To me there’s nothing more embarrassing than going to another gym and getting exposed that you’re very is too high. I’m a blue belt at 42 and when I go to other gyms I usually can hang with the other blue belts. I’m be mortified to go and get smashed by a bunch of white belts elsewhere. It wouldn’t shine a very pleasant light on my gym. Time for belts work ok in a way because if you keep showing up you will absolutely get better. Someone told me once that belts should match your relative potential. As a 42 blue belt I have much farther to still go but my peak may be far lower than a 22 year old white belt.
Yea relative potential is a very real and justified thing. State by state in wrestling is relative. Divisions are relative. Being a national champion in a country with little wrestling doesn’t say much. So it’s a very good point for sure. I CLEARLY fall into this category as well. If I had started BJJ right out of collegiate wrestling, I am sure that in my 30s, I would have been very tough and competitive. I was at my peak at about 31 when I was coaching a kid who was a multiple time state champion. He had some weight on me too, and I was not going to give him an inch. That was my physical peak. I was strong, could still move super fast, and had like 9 more years of wrestling knowledge post collegiate wrestling. I am not the same guy
Well if age should play a factor in your criteria for who gets what belt than surely all the dudes that practice bjj for decades now but have come to old age should give it up and go back to white belt. The thing is, that does not happen with world titels...in any sport. Independent of your age. And a black belt in the end of the day doesn't mean that the person won any kind of competition and I'd say it shouldn't. The belt system is insignificant. It's nice for people to have something to work for. I don't care what belt colour I wear. I would like to stay at white belt in judo because it just looks better with the kimono. All these coloured belts look kind of childish and weird.
Nowhere in here did I factor in my criteria because I don’t have any. I didn’t take a stance on it. I simply stated how rank works in wrestling and in judo. Those are objective criteria. Each BJJ school seems to have their own criteria and maybe a bit of standardization would help people understand what is expected for each belt. I also didn’t propose that anyone give up their belt or give back a world title.
A lot of BJJ gyms have it so subjective a gym owner can pick and choose who they belt. Which sometimes can cause hurt feelings for people that see belts as a representation of skill. And it doesn’t help when in BJJ I’ve seen more belt elitism than expected. I’ve seen purple belts that likely couldn’t beat blue belts in competitions. To some BJJ guys the belt means they’re “better” in terms of knowledge and performance even though I’m seeing a lot of people comment that’s not what the belts represent during promotion the common practitioners perceives it as skill difference. Imagine being talked down to based on your rank but knowing you could steamroll a decent amount of purples in a competition. To me that definitely creates a strange dynamic because smugness of some practitioners is because of their rank. Judo is more objective because you must have met certain requirements to more degrees for your black belt. In BJJ lots of people get promoted by their coach when their coach feels like it. Hell, I see some coaches promote them right after they medal at a big competition. The belt system gives people a sense of accomplishment but sometimes unwarranted perception of their skill vs others.
Good takes man. I didn’t mention it, but it would definitely matter where you were competing too. A wrestler from the heart of PA or NJ is generally not the same as someone from Mississippi. There’s so much depth in PA that if you’re smashing the competition then you are frickin legit. Some people are taking my post the wrong way. I am not trying to demote anyone or anything. I am not even saying it should be this or that. But it is odd when I roll with people from other places and they tell me I am more skilled than my belt color. Well we have 3 more belts between white and blue and that definitely makes a difference. Most of our green belts would be considered 4 stripe blue. By the time they were purple, they were good. But there were also a lot of blue belts that didn’t progress much and would still be promoted to purple. Again I don’t have much of a horse in the race and said in the video I wasn’t taking a side. People feel very strongly about their beliefs and as a result I don’t think they are hearing me say both sides. Oh and man I have been talked down to by rank a lot at my old school. They were showing takedowns and didn’t care that I had a lot of knowledge in that area. They said “do it like professor says,” even though it was terrible. Lol. No I am not going to shoot with my head down and back rounded off like a cat. Nope. That doesn’t work in any grappling art
This channel is crazy underrated. I like what he said about wresrling. I think bjj should turn into wrestling. Get a belt if you do good in comp. Unless you are a john danaher who has trained many champions. If you are a full-grownn man and think you should get a belt for just showing up means you have a mental problem. The real goal in combat sports is to be able to physically overcome another man. If you cant do that you dont deserve a belt.
Recently started cross training Judo and at least here in Australia the promotion criteria is very black and white (which I prefer compared to BJJ). There are competitive, knowledge and service and knowledge only routes for promotion. The competition route roughly halves the time between promotions compared to knowledge only. If you compete, do well and can demonstrate the techniques you'll rank up quickly, if you can't compete you can gain points towards a promotion by coaching or refereeing. Knowledge only is generally only avaliable if you physically cannot compete and means you can't be promoted above 3rd Dan. I feel its as objective a system as you can get. Sucks for older guys (30+) but that's just judo in general.
Thanks for this. Yeah the only understanding I have is from my sensei who is a 7th degree blackbelt in judo and is 100% stringent on not promoting unless you compete. He is actually the same way with his BJJ too (he is also a blackbelt in Jiu Jitsu).
I feel like the belt system just makes it too easy for the status to go to someone’s head. I think one of the big differences between wrestling and BJJ is how the public views you. If you wrestled in HS and college then you’re viewed as being pretty tough but in BJJ if you’re a Blackbelt then everyone sees you as an ultimate badass. It almost seems like the belt becomes part of their identity, instead of just trying to get better.
Thanks for all the great content btw and I really enjoy your explanations and technique breakdowns!
Good thoughts. I am pissed at Flo for copyright striking my ADCC video. I am tired of the whole copyright thing.
Great content as always brother. Would love to see a video on your go tos for escaping/countering the front headlock postion.
Thanks man. Wow do I really not have that?? Holy shit! I know that I put some of that on my instructional, but definitely not everything I do from there
Judo here in Canada gives recommendations to clubs for grading below brown belt (ikkyu). But it’s still up to sensei.
When your coach gives you a brown belt and now you compete with the majority of the player base in the brown and blackbelt division. It switches to a points system, minimum 1 year as a brown belt then if you have enough points (you’ve killed every division you competed in) you can get your sensei’s approval and do the kata test for blackbelt. It repeats for more and more points and more time in grade every dan level.
Alternatively if you’re broken and can’t compete you do get a good amount of points per year of being active and can do non competitive roles to get points.
120 points for shodan, 10pt for ippon win, 7 for wazari, 0 for DQ/walkover win, 5 for competing. 25 per year active in judo, and 5 for refereeing in a comp
Sounds pretty objective!
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 it is! Im an American living in Canada and seeing the wild west of standards set by the 3 major American judo organizations is unfortunate
No. It’s entirely up to the coach of that gym to determine when you’re ready to receive a promotion. It’s nothing more than a clock that measures time differently for everyone.
In my opinion, the nice thing about the jiu jitsu belt system is that it's not just based upon skills, it's also based heavily upon knowledge. In the case of someone like John Danaher, he knows more about jiu jitsu than almost anyone alive. That being said, I think he'd be one of the first to say that skills are also an important aspect of the ranking - if you have no ability to apply the knowledge you have, then you should not be ranked yet.
I think where the disconnect often happens is when comparing athletes to one another. In jiu jitsu, the way you are compared is primarily to yourself, and to your own potential. In other words - if someone comes in with a higher capacity to achieve things in jiu jitsu, they have a higher standard before they get promoted, because their potential is greater. For someone with lower potential, be that due to age or other factors, the standard is lower. However, there is a baseline of understanding and applied skill that is required, and some people will top out at a certain belt level.
In other words, it's murky, and that's not necessarily a problem. It's not completely objective, but it's not completely subjective either, and that's actually good for the health of the sport, at least as a recreational activity. The belts probably should have very little to do with competition, especially at the top level. And as we have seen with the growth of ADCC and nogi competition, this is increasingly becoming the case. For Jay Rod, the belt doesn't matter. For Joe Shmo who has a 9-5, the belt system is excellent for tracking your progress and giving you achievable goals.
These are good points. I think the lack of objective criteria though can hurt people’s growth, like it did at my former McSandbag school
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 The weakness of the system is that it relies heavily on the integrity and good judgement of the instructor. If you have a great instructor, the belts have a range of skill level within them, but it's close enough that you ought to be at least competitive with students of the same belt level at local tournaments. If you have a bad instructor, you get people who are getting belts simply for time on the mat. I think being at a school that values competition without pushing it is a really good way to thread this needle.
@jonathandebruyn6781 agreed
Very well said! This is pretty much my opinion as well.
One of the things that kept me out of wrestling, and sports in general, in high school was the concept of cuts. While I'm against participation trophies, it intimidated me against ever trying. And growing up I had the identity of being kinda nerdy, so internally, wrestling wasn't an activity that "I did". Ironically, during this time I was exploring my athleticism, and so when our P.E. class did wrestling - I had a blast!
I was fortunate that my Jiu-Jitsu coach was a lifelong wrestler, and that the local university's wrestling team would train in our club. They allowed me to join them... and holy shit were classes tough.
Belts don't matter much to me, I just want to be able to train and improve. As my coach said, "Personally, if you can beat a blackbelt... you're a blackbelt."
Beat a black belt in a competition with weight classes or tap one out in sparring?
@@Reflectionmaterial more so competition, but if you’re repeatedly doing it during rolls, then it probably counts.
My highschool team never cut anyone, because you never know when someone will come into their time. I wrestled with guys who were JV all the way to their senior year and then make it to state
@@chadelliottfahlman according to that logic I am a black belt now :D
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 that’s great, and my high school may have been more lax than I’d first realized.
The belt is a symbol of demonstrable knowledge in the art of Jiu Jitsu not a measuring stick between who would win on the mats. Factors such as age, weight, and over all fitness will always play a part in terms of performance. Over time all of our physical abilities will diminish but our knowledge and technical understanding will increase. If you want to rise in rank then focus on truly understanding the totality of the art not just a small skill set that you can win with.
Tell me about it…I am much more knowledgeable about wrestling than I was coming right out of collegiate wrestling, but my 22 year old self would work my 44 year old self. Lol. I know a few black belts who aren’t that knowledgeable. Lots of time but not lots of knowledge. I think people correlate time too much with knowledge and that’s my point in this video. Some places seem to be based off time and not skill, like the mcdojo sandbag school I was at before
Coming in again as someone in their 40s (I started at 39 too) with a wrestling background. I think your observation on wrestling having no ranks and is for competition is right on the money. As for BJJ, I think there is an understanding that there are hobbyist and competitors. As a hobbyist, I am under no delusion that I am on equal footing with competitors. The belt ranking for competitors should be on performance and not arbitrary weight times like IBJFF has. Danaher explained that he is not purposely holding back his students belts, but since they compete in IBJFF, they are beholden to the their belt ranking time system, which should have exceptions for say ADCC trial winners. For us hobbyists, as long as we know our belt is not the same as a competitors belt, I think a combination of time in and skill is fine for promotion. We in BJJ sometimes are too serious, I am old father of a bunch of kids, with a full time job, but I make time to do BJJ and I think its pretty fair to get a belt for time, money, and sweat in to get promotions as long as there is also some skill requirement. I think the presence of rolling always grounds you. If you are constantly provides to humility you need. Also, doing this for 10 years is quite an accomplishment and I think there is nothing wrong with a hobbyist black belt. Again, rolling will show how good you really are... Great video Dr. Breza.
These are great points and I definitely agree with all of it. I am super banged up from years of grappling. I also have two kids, a wife, and a very demanding job. Speaking of the latter, I find it hilarious when people scrutinize every word I say and tell me I should have said it like this. Lol! Bro, this is a hobby of mine not a full time job. I am not writing these out before I do them. Lol!
A major point I was trying to make is that criteria is somewhat clear for judo and ultra clear in wrestling. The United States Judo Federation has a study guide to aid in the assistance of students preparing for promotion. My sensei’s criteria are ultra clear.
My body is wrecked, so I 100% am in it for the knowledge and experience. I don’t have the answers, but in my experience the criteria for promotion in BJJ is very much in the hands of the professor with seemingly no guidebook like there is for Judo (in the US). Most people who compete often know that there are blue belts and competition blue belts. A guy at my old school was a competition blue belt and wrecked everyone.
Good.
I’m 57 now, got my Judo black belt 18 years ago…I competed a ton back then, got my green belt meritoriously by winning a regional tournament…I started BJJ 5 years ago because my body can’t take doing Judo anymore AND there really aren’t any Judo clubs anywhere near me…I WAS a pretty damn good grappler, now I’m just mediocre. I’ll NEVER be a legit BJJ black belt, honestly I’m not even a legit Judo BB anymore…the best I can hope for at this point is to get past my blue belt and be a solid purple belt someday, and I’m ok with that.
I get that totally man. I blew my knee out in judo back in August 2 weeks before a judo competition. I absolutely love Judo, but I don’t think that I should do it anymore. I didn’t even do anything crazy. I just went for hari goshi and my knee rotated. Tore my ACL completely and destroyed my meniscus. It had to be sewn back together.
I was a D1 wrestler, but I am definitely not going to walk into a collegiate room and be like I was. So I started doing BJJ and like it a lot. If I make it to blackbelt then fine, but maybe I don’t. I will still train until my body can’t take it anymore
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 I’ve had to change my whole mindset brother…and I’m still not completely there yet. My goal for every class now is to get a decent workout in and NOT get injured, not to “win” rolls. I like to help coach the younger more competitive guys with their standup game, but my days of going hard are way behind me…thanks for your channel, I really enjoy your stuff!
@seabeebillm pretty much the same here man. It kills me that my body just doesn’t hold up. Breaking things and tweaking things constantly. Always against people who aren’t experienced and have something to prove. In over 3 decades, I have never injured anyone in a practice, but I have been injured so many times. When I get back to newaza, I am going to choose my partners wisely. It’s all I can do at this point. Thanks for your support brother
It can be. Some schools have a list of what you must know and you run a shark tank with different belts like Roy Dean.
That’s cool. My collegiate teammate said he had to beat 5 blackbelts in a row to get his judo blackbelt.
I say just compete as much as possible and that should tell you where your level is. But this is more for people who compete often
I come from a wrestling background too, and I can definitely say that the belts are only good for keeping the gi tied around your waist. Only competing and learning from someone better than you in each discipline matters.
People focus on belts for status, that's why there are self-appointed 10th degree black belts in other art forms. Instead of asking what is the black belt rank worth, you should ask yourself what am I gaining from training? For some that means better health, for others its confidence. So long as its not for ego, any consistent training you do makes you a badass.
At my age and after 33 years of this, it’s all about being able to continue it. Longevity is the goal. And while that might not sound difficult to a young guy, it’s hard as an older guy who’s suffered a tremendous amount of injuries. Just trying to keep rolling because it’s the best exercise there is and such a giant part of who I am
The belts are a necessary evil in a way. The belts are a major motivator for people whose life isn't seriously committed towards bjj, coming second only to the communal aspect to bjj. Without the belts, I think attendance would drop and people would quit much earlier.
Ideally we just have a bunch of Coach Breza's where the satisfaction of self-actualizing thru the sport (i.e. internal motivation) is enough to persevere in the sport thru injuries, self-doubt, etc. The reality is that external factors (the belt) play a powerful role - even in people who have strong internal motivation. This creates that foundation of hobbyists that even allows the competitive scene to exist.
Competition isn't a perfect solution either- it has complicating factors as well - ref bias, PEDs, brackets - but it's probably the most objective measure of skill. With that said, I've always thought of people refusing rank - let alone a black belt - from their instructor to be very arrogant. They are, in a way, saying that they are a better assessor of their skill than their own instructor.
I think both "tiers" of belt rankings can exist together. Much like in wrestling, you pretty much almost instantly know how good someone is based on their grips and the resulting fatigue/control they exert. This is to say, I don't think it's that big a deal to give someone a black belt. You can be a black belt in your small gym - that's what I was. You can also be a black belt and test yourself at the highest levels.
This is an excellent response. I appreciate your insights. There is an element to BJJ that is inviting and celebrating. Wrestling is all about training to win and it’s never enough. The culture of wrestling I grew up in was that a win is not to be publicly celebrated. You put your head down, run off the mat and celebrate to yourself but don’t lose focus, because there are bigger and more important tournaments ahead. The BJJ environment is much more encouraging. At least in person. Online, everyone is a tough guy. Lol
Great video! I think the belt system needs to be revamped or taken away especially when it comes to competition. In ibjjf you’re only allowed to compete at your belt level which I dispise, but in adcc opens anyone can sign up for the advanced brackets, if you’re good you’re good no matter the belt is, as far as casuals who only train I feel there should be cap off for black belt. Either way mats don’t lie. 😅
I feel like their should be a cap to getting purple. I never been ranked but destroyed a purple belt from a pretty reputable name. Im not even a dude who trains consistently. Purple should be a level where you can handle any white belt unless its an absolutle freak of nature and handle even a decent wrestler who doesnt know bjj especially if you are the same weight. Purple should in no way be able to lose to a white belt who trains periodically who is the same size
@@kevinsho2601I agree, but what do you do with a purple belt who gets injured and can't train for a year or two. Or one who gets old? Do you take the belt away once he or she loses their competitive ability?
@imizaru9929 no if they earned it they earned it. I mean those are outlier cases once someone has it they have it. Its like a wrestler who won a state title. Do you take it away because he is old and cant beat some dudes he could have beat in the past.
@kevinsho2601 exactly. You might not be as good as you once were, but you should be able to still use technique to be effective. My judo coach is 76 years old and has excellent newaza. He can still pin the crap out of you, choke, and joint lock super well. Can’t do it hard for an hour, but he can still roll
Many of the current blackbelts have gained their rank with a knowledge that was not what it is today.
There is no secret technique in judo, no secret technique in wrestling. Yet the bjj is still growing, it's still not quite a sport because of the discrepancy in knowledge in my opinion. Many blackbelts avoid leglocks like plague, here in France, whereas, some blue belts in other regions are absolutely killers with legs. Not knowing leglocks and being a black belt makes the belt system more intricate.
Great points and respectful in your delivery as always.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 thank you very much coach ;-)
I think the belt system can be interpreted two different ways that are opposed to each other and I think depending on where you land on that spectrum you may value some aspects more than others. I think it's between individual vs comparative growth. Individual being about comparison of the past self and comparative being about where you rank compared to other people. I think when people talk about belts for hobby people vs competitors this is what they are talking about and I think everyone and their coach lands differently on that spectrum so we will see a wide variety of results. Also another factor to consider is what criteria is being considered. I think if you take a purely comparative approach as it relates to skill would you have to de rank people as they age and lose skill? I don't think anyone would do that which means that it can't be the only factor in most of our considerations. I rly think that for the most part the professional level competition begins not at belt but at skill. Like is Jay rod this or that belt well does it rly matter? I think the belt system allows for less experienced adults/ seniors/ hobby people in general to compete against each other and have competitive matches. I think that's mainly the biggest pro of the belt system. The only thing that can be said objectively is that it will be a never ending argument because everyone has their own standard.
As I said to another person on here, I definitely do not believe in demotion of rank. I would lose to my 21 year old self in a wrestling match, despite knowing more now.
I do like the individual comparison thing. That’s always how I looked at myself. I received a tremendous amount of pressure from others to be the best and that definitely sucked. Competing against people your own age, rank, and size is about as fair as it gets. That could be useful for determining how much you know.
This is an odd conversation to me, because black belts in judo are absolutely something most everyone can get. In Japan, the idea of a black belt is mastery of the basics. Its an intermediate level. Even in North America where we fetishize the black belt more it takes "only" 5-10 years. (With a natural cap at 3rd degree for non-competitors.) Being an elite athlete is symbolized by winning competitions lol, the belt system rewards knowledge, technique, teaching ability, service to the sport, etc...
Yes, the criteria as somewhat clear for judo, which is my point. The United States Judo Federation has a study guide to aid in the assistance of students preparing for promotion. My sensei’s criteria are ultra clear. I am too old and destroyed from decades of wrestling to compete at a high level anymore, so I 100% am in it for the knowledge and experience. I have not laid out any criteria, but gave some examples of my own experiences with wrestling, judo, and bjj and just asking questions in the hopes for civil conversations.
I think for nogi we should just skip the belts completely. ADCC Opens have classes for beginnners, intermediate and professionals. That should be enough. I've comoeted against many GI black belts in nogi comps as a blue and purole belt and beat almost all of them. It's a complete joke nowadays. If youre good, youre good and evervbody knows it. There are too many black belts severly lacking in skill level.
Yeah NoGi is essentially becoming submission wrestling and like wrestling there aren’t categories of skill level. If I entered the US Open, I would/could have a young D1 wrestler in the first round. Been like 20 years since I have wrestled another All American. It was hard then, lol
Hmm I find quite a lot of misconceptions here...
BJJ comes from judo. In judo, a black belt means you've completed the first step of training. BJJ black is a bit tougher, but to compare black belt with world champion is a complete misnomer.
Second, saying judo has more objective testing is way off, especially the competition angle. Each dojo is different, each country is different, and even so, having a set of techniques everyone need to demonstrate really doesn't mean much in terms of objectivity. Most ppl can learn a technique vs a non resisting opponent, that means very little for competitions. We all know the person who can do one tech only, clearly not a black belt, but that person probably punches above his weight in competitions.
I see the belts mostly as a guidance as to how "safe" and "competent" a student is. If someone is a blue belt, I'd expect they can roll safely, whereas a white belt may not. If you then take the judo meaning of black belt, then a black belt is basically just meant to be someone who is competent in most aspects of the game and can roll with people in many ways. That doesn't mean they can beat all ppl of lower rank, too many physical attributes play in there.
A last example: many NBA players are not technically great at bball. But because they're huge, they can play on the highest level. That doesn't mean others aren't as technically good at b-ball.
Edit: somehow I added this as a reply to a comment, was meant to reply to post directly
@stassenchr I gave examples from my Judo school and never took a side. Definitely never said that being a world champion is a requirement for a blackbelt.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 you said "I'm not saying you need to be a world champion to get a black belt but maybe not everyone should get one". What I'm trying to say is, that was never the intent of black belt rank to be even remotely close to being an elite competitor (in judo - BJJ doesn't have as much formal definition). Judo black belt as I stated was exactly that you have passed your initial stage of training, no more no less. BJJ coming from judo, the black belt is a similar thing, although in general it seems to take a bit longer to get. So to even speculate that you need certain tournament credentials to get a black belt is just misunderstanding what the belts are.
If what you want to question is "what" a black belt should be, that's a different discussion from "how " you get one
I have wondered about this myself. I have been training coming up on 10 years now. Currently I train with a few guys who are at both ends of the spectrum. One guy trains 5-6 days a week 2 classes a day. He’s not athletic but he knows a ton of moves. He’s there all the time. But struggles to actually perform the moves himself. He was a blue belt when I started jiu jitsu and is a purple belt today. On the other end we have a guy who does the same 2-3 techniques over and over. Coaches plead with him to open and up and try something new but he just refuses. He has trained about 6 years and is a brown belt. He competes well and podiums at major events. He has no where near the technical knowledge the blue belt has tho. Between those 2 guys with my own journey and it seems like the criteria is all over the place. And that’s just one school. Heh.
Does competition performance matter at your school? Because it sounds like it. I’ve known wrestlers who have very few techniques that they use, but they are incredible at them. There is something to be said about that. Like I said in one of my recent videos “more moves doesn’t mean more medals.” But if the 3 things you do aren’t working then you definitely have a problem. Lol! Benardo was a master a deep half and the over under pass. I am sure he knows a lot more but those are what he relied on. I would guess that if his timing and set ups are awesome then he has a solid but limited game. I have heard from a few blackbelts how they didn’t really open up until after they got their black belt
Competition definitely isn’t required but we have a few guys who compete pretty regularly. I agree that you can’t really argue competition results. I just often wonder if there’s ever a scenario where mat time and knowledge alone is enough to reach black. I personally kind feel the same. Maybe black belts aren’t for everyone.
Personally, I think both systems can co-exist. In Judo competition, typically no one really cares about your belt rank. What people are looking at are your points, team placements, and (competition) rank.
To me, a belt system from white to say 3rd degree is like “okay you understand the system, you can go off and teach.” Any degrees beyond that are really about what you’ve done for the sport so like… how many black belts you’ve produced, how many students you have, do you generate high level competitors, etc.
In other words, I think there is overlap, but these can kind of be the their own things. The issue for me is less to do with belts or comp ratings and more to do with how popular discussion conflates competitive skill with the black belt in particular. Which is really a corruption of the idea-in Japan you’ll have high schoolers running around with black belts. The black belt isn’t all that and it never really has been, it’s just a symbol that you’ve got a good handle on fundamentals in a comprehensive way. If wrestling had belts, I’m sure we’d have high schoolers who would get black belt by those standards.
For better or worse, I really just believe a lot of martial arts chatter in general is woefully uninformed. I know guys in BJJ and Judo who don’t even know the competition rules all that well, for example. I don’t know what can be done about it and I hate sounding like a prick, but I generally do think most people don’t actually know what they are talking about when it comes to these things. Which leads to these kinds of misunderstandings, conflating things, misinterpretations, etc.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Yeah I am biased by my experiences from my own judo school. The blackbelts we have are really good. My head sensei has very straightforward criteria for what it takes for each belt and it’s not easy. His son, my other sensei is a national champion in judo and pan am games champion in sambo. He was on the judo and sambo teams with Shintaro. They are good friends. They are incredible instructors and as a result our guys win a lot of shit. So my school probably isn’t the norm of what a blackbelt is. Their newaza is excellent. Both of my sensei’s have excellent newaza and blackbelts in Jiu Jitsu, which is also uncommon
My video was about generation questions and ideas, not about me telling everyone how it is. It’s based off my experiences, which for judo are limited. The United States Judo Federation has a guidebook with pretty straightforward criteria for what a person should be able to do at each rank. One of my points was that in BJJ, it seems like the professor can just make a call however he seems fit whereas in judo at least there are pretty solid guidelines. In wrestling, it just takes care of itself through competition. That’s all I am saying.
Belts are belts and medals are medals... they kinda already represent different things IMO, and having the belt become essentially another competition-based reward kind of misses the point and seems redundant to me.
I also think this is the difference between a martial discipline and a sport, and as BJJ has exploded in popularity and created its own (in some ways flawed) rulesets, the majority of modern practitioners have definitely lost sight of the martial aspect.
Basically my idea is that belts are for martial artists, and martial artists, to me, are people who know better than to start a fight by sitting down and butt-scooting towards their opponent. Medals are for people who do that specific thing really well because they're playing a sport.
You can do both and be both, which is why you can earn a belt and/or a medal, but they're separate.
This is an astute observation for sure! As I was saying in the beginning of the video, wrestling is a sport that you train for solely for competition. People generally don’t train wrestling to just learn it. Those who are learning it for BJJ have a reason to learn it. So this point you bring up is very sound. Thank you for your insights.
tbh, I don't think they really should be a belt system for bjj. But at the same time, it brings a sort of legitimacy in the absence of competition. For example Danaher got his black belt from Renzo Gracie, so even without his lack of competition experience ,you instantly know he's legit even before the dds and new wave were formed (Danaher also started when he was 28 and I believe he mentioned he was born with some physical issues with his hips,not entirely sure). So if a guys walks into the gym and says "I got my belt from X" you can at least tell he's not full of crap. Just my thoughts, I know it doesn't answer your question. Also, Roy Dean's demonstrations are voluntary for the person being promoted. Also, The belt system you described are usually for kids but I know that some organizations introduced it for adults as well.
Edit: Wanted to add-Like me, for example,I'm a purple belt who's only competed a handful of times with like a 50% win rate lol. But at least when I tell people I'm a purple belt,they will know that I know some stuff lol (Feel like a white belt half the time tho)
Good points. Yeah it’s a double edged sword in many was. Danaher says he didn’t compete because of his knees, yet he had no issues with competing in Rugby and no issues with fighting drunk people as a bouncer. Anthony Robbles was born with one leg and is an D1 NCAA champion. I know several wrestlers with no feet who made it to D3, so wrestlers will find a way to compete. JJ Machado kicked ass with one fully functional hand. BJJ isn’t the only martial art that doesn’t require competition to rank. I was ranked on Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan as a kid and never competed.
Having competed in hundreds and hundreds of wrestling matches, I can tell you that competition improves your grappling skills far more than you can do in practice alone. And again, a lot of people don’t want to improve that much, and I think that is fine. I don’t know whether I can ever compete again with my knee injury. So I am not taking a stance, but just to show how maybe the criteria ought to be more objective. When I train at other places, they say I am a sandbagger and should be a higher rank, but that has nothing to do with me because I didn’t determine my rank-my McSandbagger school did
For the individual, a black belt can be whatever- recognition by a peer, personal goal, or something else. For the art form and sport, it is a bit different. It is interesting to think about grappling sports without belts and how it is based on ranking. Perhaps the black belt just acts as a dopamine tool like a first stripe on a white belt. Of course there is massive nuance there but what changes when you earn a black belt from the non-competitor, non-teaching, or hobbyist perspective? Nothing except what you place upon it and what others place upon you.
Yeah it varies so widely across disciplines and schools. My old BJJ school was a classic money making scheme. He holds everyone back for an unnecessarily long time. And we weren’t a competition school, so it’s not like he was doing it so our guys were better off in competition. He said at one point to me that once you get your blackbelt you will leave. I said that I liked the training environment and had no plans to ever leave. But what I noticed was that most of the good training partners just ended up leaving because they got pissed off being a blue belt for 5 years while they kicked everyone’s asses.
In contrast my Judo coach has an incredibly objective system. Rank is based on competition performance. You need to beat a belt rank above you 5x to get that belt. For example if you want to promote to brown, you need to beat 5 brown belts in competition. This means you are well within that rank. So you can’t be a black belt unless you beat 5 blackbelts in competition. It is as objective as it gets. And because he goes to every tournament with you, he knows what you need to work on and then that goes into your training.
It clearly works or else he wouldn’t be a 7th degree black belt and his son wouldn’t be a multiple time national champion and Pan Am games champion
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 Interesting. My coach brought up this topic and one thing I thought would be universally accepted is the black belt divisions- teaching, competition, perhaps some version of both, and maybe black belt branding which already happens. But what I kept thinking about was without some single governing body that dictates an objective belt progression, not preferable in my opinion, there will be massive difference in what makes a BB. And ultimately what is harm? Would it be deception when a less than bb opens a school and starts unsuspecting students on a course they aren't prepared to guide them on? Maybe. I think an honest coach sets out their metric of evaluation and follows it.
I'm also a 43 year old white belt that competes to put myself in uncomfortable situations- not necessarily for achievement and recognition. I check every box as a hobbyist so that's my perspective bias.
@bryanreinholdt1234 the “harm” I see is not being qualified to teach. The entire reason I started my channel was because I saw many people teaching wrestling who clearly had no formal education/training/knowledge of wrestling and Judo. There was a circular argument they hid behind, in that whenever someone called out their shitty technique they would say “oh this isn’t wrestling or judo it’s Jiu Jitsu.” That’s a bullshit argument when you are literally trying to teach wrestling and/or judo and using the names of those techniques from those disciplines.
J Robinson, former head wrestling coach of the University of Minnesota and Olympian used to say “Learn it right and you’ll do it right the rest of your life. Learn it wrong and you’ll spend the rest of your life trying to get it right.”
You will learn it wrong by a poser. Then you have to unlearn your mistakes, and it’s hard to break bad habits. There is a reason that at 44 years old, I can outwrestle 25 year olds in BJJ who have been doing BJJ for 7 years and outweigh me by 50lbs. And there’s a reason that I can’t wrestle with D1 guys anymore even though I was D1. Because the wrestling being taught in Jiu Jitsu fucking sucks, and it’s because it’s being taught by people who never wrestled. So, essentially faking a blackbelt in wrestling. I see it as no different than having a blackbelt that you earned by paying dues. Either you have the skills you are teaching or you don’t, but don’t fucking lie about it. 90+% of people teaching wrestling for BJJ suck at wrestling. And as a result, wrestling in BJJ sucks.
My goal of this channel is to give people the tools they need so they can be good on their feet, escape, and control on the mat using classic wrestling. After I build a library of information, I will walk away from it. I am not in this for any other reason other than to help people improve their wrestling skills in BJJ and submission grappling.
Getting promoted in Judo was much clearer than getting promoted in BJJ. Been at blue belt for over 5 years. Not sure what I need to do to get promoted. Probably compete and win more often.
This is exactly what I am talking about! We had blue belts for 7 years at our school who were wrecking the purple belts. And my coach didn’t care about competition. He just changed the distance of the goal posts constantly
So Bjj blue belt here. The reason time in grade leads to promotion is the accumulation of knowledge. How much do you know? Knowledge of variations, escapes, defenses and counters makes a difference in performance on the mat. So does atheticism, endurance, weight, flexibility, etc. Time on the mat correlates to knowledge gained. Being a black belt is NOT elite, in fact, it is just the beginning for the serious martial artist.
The main reason it's so hard to explain what curriculum you need to know in order to advance to the next belt is that jiujitsu is vast like an ocean. You can drown in it and there are many styles of swimming. Roy Dean, Robson Moura and others have put together belt requirements on DVD. But their way is just that, their way. There are other paths to reach the goal. You can be stronger in some areas and weaker in others. You can specialize. Open guard, closed guard, leglocks, armlocks, chokes, side control, mount, rear bount, escapes... the list is waaaay longer. At the end of the day, a belt level is a feel your ground game has. But it can vary.
I never took a stance in my video and said that on purpose.
One would think that time correlates to knowledge but I know people with a lot of time who have little skill and people with little time with a lot of skill.
Like I was saying on the video, at my old school, people are still blue belts often 7 years in, because blue belt is the 5th belt. So at my old school the criteria was not the same as it is for most schools I have been to. And yes, to my point, the blackbelt is not an elite belt rank, because it is based off time. The questions I proposed was whether a blackbelt should be elite. Again, I tried to make it clear that I am not taking a stance and said that several times. It would benefit me the way the criteria currently is, because I “just need to keep showing up” like Danaher says. At my age, that’s not the easiest goal, because after 33 years of grappling my body is wrecked
@@Agtren it’s a lot like wrestling in that regard. As a retired from competition wrestler who started BJJ five years ago, it was nice that I didn’t have to train like I did in wrestling-constantly having to climb the internal ranking system to get the chance to compete. For me, BJJ in the Gi gave me a lot more things to learn, but still felt familiar in a lot of the movement patterns of wrestling. It’s actually why I like the Gi.
You were wondering why despite having a strong wrestling background you were initially low ranked in BJJ. There are two reasons. 1. Machismo and competition between BJJ and other fighting styles. My style is better than your style. 2. After receiving a belt from your coach you represent him and his school. Your coach wants to be sure you don't embarass him. You'll eventually, once you get your black belt (keep training for a long ass time, like over a decade and you will) be expected to teach bjj basics the classical way.
@@josephbreza-grappling9459No, I don't think black belt should be elite anymore than college degrees are elite. Yes, it can sometimes be hard to explain why someone gets good faster, but it's also well known that people LIE about their experience. Some people just want to pull a fast one on you.
You have to take into account that wrestling all of you are young and about the same age, jiu jitsu rooms have to contend with massive age differences weight differences ect, also im not sure competing a bunch should be necessary, just being able to beat good people consistently is grounds for promotion.
“All of you are young?” Lol! Yeah 26 years ago I was a senior in highschool. I understand that as I am 44 years old and with 33 years of numerous injuries from wrestling and judo. I do BJJ because it’s easier on the body.
I am not sure that competing all the time is the right option for me. I have over 1,000 matches in wrestling competition. But, maybe I am not fit for a blackbelt
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 haha, man if you can use jiu jitsu to consistently tap higher belts and good players just at your gym thats grounds for promotion. Thats really all you need
@@josephbreza-grappling9459 honestly at the end of the day if your not trying to be a serious competitor you want your jiu jitsu to allow you to defeat better players and bigger bodies, so if your not learning leg attacking and getting to the back maintaining and finishing from the back, then as far as self defense you are doing yourself no favors.
@ryanthompson3446 no doubt
Purple belt here
Getting a belt from someone in the sport who has skills that are respectable feels like an acknowledgment that you're on the right path and you're getting better. If I got promoted by someone who is ass at BJJ it would be kind of a bummer. Other than being able to test yourself against other upper belts in competition and the acknowledgment, belts doesn't really matter.
Would be cool to have a black belt, but it would be up to me to keep my skills sharp to keep having it earned, you know? I agree that having a black belt should mean you're a part of the elite, but at the same time it would feel wrong to strip someone of their belt because they're not training as much and has lost their edge. It's also costly to compete
Getting the stripes on the black belt is bullshit though, you can step of the mat for the rest of your life and pay IBJJF the yearly fee to keep getting stripes
I definitely do not believe in demotion of rank. I made a few versions of this video and in one of them (I don’t think it was this one) I said how my 21 year old self would demolish me in wrestling. That doesn’t take away from my accomplishments. But when someone starts BJJ at 65 and gets a blackbelt at 75, what does that really mean? Just wondering, because I am not the authority on this. I personally think it matters…like I couldn’t enter D1 now and perform the way I did as a 21 year old, despite knowing more
I disagree on this one, i like the subjectivness and belt system.
1) the bulk of jujitsu is made up of amateurs in the truest sense of the word. Therefore, jujitsu should be based of accessibility, self-improvement, and enjoyment.
2) if you want to be a world champ, go be a world champ
3) what happens as a higher belt ages should their belt be taken away? No thats ridiculous
4) as long as a school has a competitive element (meaning they engage in even just local tourneys) the belts do feel like a decent snapshot imo. Sure, theres stastitcal outliers due to popularity of the sport but I feel like the bell curves are where they generally should be.
5) theres quite a few higher belts ive handled, but thats only cause ive started in the new age were i was given more tools (my school trains us in footlocks, wrestling and nasic judo early on), they all have had better technical proficiency at alot of stuff im not. Hell, I've added to my game a lot of details they do. I think knowledge is important.
7) why get too worried about some arbitrary standard? Them mats dont lie.
And jujitsu is fragmented.
Disagree? I never took a stance on it. I simply posed a few questions. I don’t agree with demotion. I wouldn’t be able to outwrestle myself at 22 coming out of D1 wrestling, despite knowing more.
Belts don't mean much in other combat sports.
In BJJ the problem is that competitions are based on belt levels.
This makes it messy. A blue belt can kill higher belts in training but it will not help him if he does not get promoted to a higher level.
@@Reflectionmaterial that only matters for ibjjf
@@justin8865pretty much any competition on smoothcomp in gi involves having to sign in on your belt level.
To me there’s nothing more embarrassing than going to another gym and getting exposed that you’re very is too high. I’m a blue belt at 42 and when I go to other gyms I usually can hang with the other blue belts. I’m be mortified to go and get smashed by a bunch of white belts elsewhere. It wouldn’t shine a very pleasant light on my gym. Time for belts work ok in a way because if you keep showing up you will absolutely get better. Someone told me once that belts should match your relative potential. As a 42 blue belt I have much farther to still go but my peak may be far lower than a 22 year old white belt.
Yea relative potential is a very real and justified thing. State by state in wrestling is relative. Divisions are relative. Being a national champion in a country with little wrestling doesn’t say much. So it’s a very good point for sure.
I CLEARLY fall into this category as well. If I had started BJJ right out of collegiate wrestling, I am sure that in my 30s, I would have been very tough and competitive. I was at my peak at about 31 when I was coaching a kid who was a multiple time state champion. He had some weight on me too, and I was not going to give him an inch. That was my physical peak. I was strong, could still move super fast, and had like 9 more years of wrestling knowledge post collegiate wrestling. I am not the same guy
Well if age should play a factor in your criteria for who gets what belt than surely all the dudes that practice bjj for decades now but have come to old age should give it up and go back to white belt.
The thing is, that does not happen with world titels...in any sport.
Independent of your age.
And a black belt in the end of the day doesn't mean that the person won any kind of competition and I'd say it shouldn't.
The belt system is insignificant.
It's nice for people to have something to work for.
I don't care what belt colour I wear.
I would like to stay at white belt in judo because it just looks better with the kimono. All these coloured belts look kind of childish and weird.
Nowhere in here did I factor in my criteria because I don’t have any. I didn’t take a stance on it. I simply stated how rank works in wrestling and in judo. Those are objective criteria. Each BJJ school seems to have their own criteria and maybe a bit of standardization would help people understand what is expected for each belt. I also didn’t propose that anyone give up their belt or give back a world title.
A lot of BJJ gyms have it so subjective a gym owner can pick and choose who they belt. Which sometimes can cause hurt feelings for people that see belts as a representation of skill. And it doesn’t help when in BJJ I’ve seen more belt elitism than expected. I’ve seen purple belts that likely couldn’t beat blue belts in competitions.
To some BJJ guys the belt means they’re “better” in terms of knowledge and performance even though I’m seeing a lot of people comment that’s not what the belts represent during promotion the common practitioners perceives it as skill difference.
Imagine being talked down to based on your rank but knowing you could steamroll a decent amount of purples in a competition. To me that definitely creates a strange dynamic because smugness of some practitioners is because of their rank. Judo is more objective because you must have met certain requirements to more degrees for your black belt. In BJJ lots of people get promoted by their coach when their coach feels like it. Hell, I see some coaches promote them right after they medal at a big competition.
The belt system gives people a sense of accomplishment but sometimes unwarranted perception of their skill vs others.
Good takes man. I didn’t mention it, but it would definitely matter where you were competing too. A wrestler from the heart of PA or NJ is generally not the same as someone from Mississippi. There’s so much depth in PA that if you’re smashing the competition then you are frickin legit. Some people are taking my post the wrong way. I am not trying to demote anyone or anything. I am not even saying it should be this or that. But it is odd when I roll with people from other places and they tell me I am more skilled than my belt color. Well we have 3 more belts between white and blue and that definitely makes a difference. Most of our green belts would be considered 4 stripe blue. By the time they were purple, they were good. But there were also a lot of blue belts that didn’t progress much and would still be promoted to purple.
Again I don’t have much of a horse in the race and said in the video I wasn’t taking a side. People feel very strongly about their beliefs and as a result I don’t think they are hearing me say both sides.
Oh and man I have been talked down to by rank a lot at my old school. They were showing takedowns and didn’t care that I had a lot of knowledge in that area. They said “do it like professor says,” even though it was terrible. Lol. No I am not going to shoot with my head down and back rounded off like a cat. Nope. That doesn’t work in any grappling art