Even audiophiles can have a hard time hearing the difference between, for example...a $300 microphone in the mix and a $5000 mic in the mix. Having great equipment is nice, but it's totally possible to get really great sound out of budget equpiment if you know what you're doing. Practice, practice, practice. Experience will give your sound far more of a improvement than high end equipment will. Don't underestimate room treatment either lol. Great video.
85 db average does feel like the sweet spot. It’s loud and fun and does not fatigue you as quickly. Past that not only causes damage, but reflections become more noticeable.
I read this quote one time that said: Audiophiles do not use their systems to listen to your music, they use your music to listen to their systems. I'm fully in support of bridging the gap between the two camps.
It's an interesting thing when you're a musician. Trying to replicate the feeling of a concert scene or a garage type get-together is something else to experience. Car audio can be powerful and is an experience as well. I want to merge them all.
I’ve gone back and forward around this for years and landed in a place where I most care about a generally-flat in-room response and clean amplification. There’s something about that combination that lets me sit back and enjoy the music-from both a production and consumption perspective. That combo gives music a sense of ease and engagement that lines up with my aesthetic preferences.
I'm a local producer when I record people I put my beat on -10db and the recording track on -8.6 sometimes on -15db that way i leave room for mixing and mastering and my interface i put on 50% and also on the pc in sound settings but I'm using a dvd and two 10inch speakers
My dad told me that he stopped being an audiophile whenever he realized that his setup probably was more expensive than the engineer's setup that made the music.
Yeah the audiophile rabbit hole goes deep!!! We have it on the studio side too. Whenever I have money to dedicate to a piece of gear, I always ask myself what's the farthest I can stretch this money to have the biggest impact on my system. And that thinking has worked well for me over the years. Thanks for the comment!
Full-time audiophile part time producer! I agree with you over being able to hear the details in the audio. In a perfect world I would have studio monitors AND audiophile speakers. cause why not ?
This was a great video. Please keep on teaching like this when you can, it’s going to help the next generation of audiophiles and mixing/mastering engineers a ton. 👏 I’m long past due using a meter to monitor my listening volume. I’ve started mixing at much lower volumes and it’s helping the mixes out immensely.
There's a place for all of us to live in the world of audio playback, haha. Obviously, im biased towards the studio side, but I know a few audiofiles, and the passion is equal, in my opinion. We can learn from each other and at the end of the day, that's what it's about
I don’t listen to music the same way that my audiophile friends do. I dissect and analyze the music itself, not so much from the perspective of how closely the music sounds like a great live performance. I don’t necessarily enjoy music in my studio as much as I do in my car.
I literally just found my dream studio setup thanks to the recent video you put out about how you set up yours! Now the trouble will be finding a discontinued Sigma that's in good shape I guess
I consider myself both. I approach my audiophile side with science (measurements) and also feel. The speakers in the studio and the speakers at home should have a different sound/eq to them. One should represent the uncolored version of sound the other should enhance the experience of media listening.
I have to admit that i love gear in itself. Music and sound is always the priority, and i don't need much for that. But i also enjoy just trying new and shiny stuff for the sake of it.
When I got into home audio I did a ton of research and was told the use of subwoofers and studio monitors weren't hifi, at the time I also needed a new PC speakers so I bought some studio monitors and a sub eventually a 2nd sub.and I love the sound and still use them at my desk today. ffw 12 yrs later my fellow audiophiles are using subs powered speakers and inching towards a flattened response 😂 I use dsp on my PC and have used Munson curve but prefer it more flat at my listening position not for work just to enjoy. It might be time for some new monitors so sign me up and thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I say go for what sounds right to you. We all hear differently and I'm always reluctant to follow the rules of you can't do this or that. Thanks for the comment!
All audiophilers have no the same quality of hearing sound and have their own reference or taste of judging the speaker sound quality and also the ear of the ordinary audio listeners....there is no doubt about it
Do you feel that the DAC is more important in resolving the details in the mix ? If so what DAC's would you recommend as a crossover for audiophiles and mastering.
I think the DAC is a crucial part of the chain, but if your speakers don't have enough resolution, you'll never hear the extra resolution in the DAC. Know what I mean? Speaker resolution is still the last part of the chain and you really don't want that to be the weak point. DAC wise, I use Antelope for my DAC and Dangerous for ADC. Each have their own clocks and sometimes I'll change the clocking for the Antelope, I'll slave it to the Dangerous clock. And they have very different profiles. Some artists prefer the extra resolution of the Antelope clocking but some people prefer the way Dangerous clocking handles the low ends and smooths out the highs. Hope that helps! Thanks for the thoughtful comment
Just subscribed to the channel, excellent content, I appreciate all your efforts. Thanks for your reply, I'm more on the audiophile side but also get flac from other audiophiles because I tend to error on the side of neutrality, I want to hear how engineers like you planned for it to sound with every detail, so that was the reason for my question on DAC's because it seems like there no such thing as a neutral DAC, they all resolve details different.@@SocialClubSound
@@Bigirondoug thanks for the subscription! Yeah as good as it is to talk it out with other folks about audio we each hear in our own way. That's why I think the empathy should be welcomed. Don't let people make you feel a certain way about the gear you love and that lends itself to the way you hear. Thanks again for the subscription, have a good one!
Thanks for asking about studio SPL. I’ve been mixing and mastering in my home studio for years and know where I set the dB level on preamp and generally know how loud I prefer to listen, but I never actually measured the in-room SPL - until now. I will measure with a free version of a smartphone app called Decibel X:dB Sound Level Meter with A-Weighting and Slow (500ms) response time. Not sure I believe the quiet measurement but it’s bouncing between 25-28dB. Turning up the music to my default quiet listening level to hear various instruments and voices pop while building a mix, I measured between 50-58dB for the loud part of a song. For my typical loud level, I measured between 67-75dB. BTW - great channel you have there!
Found your videos today and I'm surprised that your videos have so few views, the content is great. I think the conversation around speakers/gear setup according to your needs is an interesting one, generally because it focuses on practicality. You can be an audiophile in it for the love of sound even if you have a really tight budget, or you can be an artist like Andrew Huang who needs crazy amounts of dsp to compensate for hearing degeneration. We're all just doing what works for us, really. Personally I don't care for playing stuff loud, so I usually keep my music around talking level which I think is roughly 60-70db. Dune 2 was fun to watch in theatres, but I definitely enjoyed it more after I put my earplugs in. I think it's really just whatever floats your boat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank you! 🙏🏼 I'm hoping one day the algorithm will find me but for now I'm just going to try to keep putting out quality content and hope it gets noticed! Good call on the reasonable listening level. Gotta protect the ears! Thanks for your comment! 🙏🏼
Both good questions! I don't know that I have answers but I'll tell you my thoughts. As mentioned in the video "pro" speakers tend to be flatter and that's often interpreted as sterile. In the studio that's what we want. But to an audiophile it might sound boring because the frequency response doesn't emphasize any area of the frequency spectrum. Audiophiles tend to like that high end bump that most hifi speakers provide. But like Bernie found out, sounding good doesn't equate to highly resolving. You can have both, but you don't always get both. As for the musicians as audiophiles question. I'm not really sure! Could be too many live shows blew out the hearing. Could be they can't afford it because they spent all their extra money on music gear. Not really sure but thanks for the great questions!
@@SocialClubSound most of audiophiles don’t like equalizers; they want to play music “flat” from their systems. I guess their definition of “flat” is different from yours. And…it seems like most audiophiles are males; is there a reason behind it?
I’m so glad I came across this video when I did because I’m building my home studio and I have everything I need EXCEPT studio monitors 😅 all my songs are mixed in my headphones and then played in my car to check 😂 Either way, awesome video and you’ve earned a subscriber for the love of music we share 🔥🙏🏾
7” aluminum 😮 not 6.5” to 8” interesting 🧐. I do love it loud, 89-103db, but in short spirntz. Running unbranded 12” two way P.A. With horns 😅 n 6th order 8” 400w 16’x19’ room hung from the ceiling Just an audioNut🎉
Yeah, 7" woofer. Just slightly oversized from the 6.5" but noticable. When I had these next to my Amphion One18s you could see the woofer was just a bit bigger with a bigger surround. 103 is loud!!! Keep those sprints short! Thanks for the comment!
I'm needing to replace some aging studio monitors and stumbled on your channel searching about the SEAS KingRO4Y Mk III kit. Now I can win some monitors! Awesome.
Excellent product! You hit the bar very well with 7in woofer and 1in tweeter @ 8 ohms. I need those for my near field reference to complement my mains. I cannot stand the NS-10M anymore
Thank you and good luck in the contest! Yeah the NS-10s are good tools but they're not fun to work on. These are much easier on the ears. Lower distortion, lower fatigue.
Found your account through your SSL mixing console video, and found this at the right time! The winner of these speakers will be very lucky, and I love the idea of unifying music creators and music appreciators. Cheers!
Theirs an interesting opposite effect that happens from over protecting your ears as well, I believe Gregory Scott from Kush audio had this problem where he was constantly plugging his ears where it wasn’t needed, things like to bed , at the movies etc. basically your ear and brain over compensate when your hearing your ears start increasing how loud frequencies are heard and it becomes increasingly worse and harsh like someone is increasing the gain between 1k-5k im probably not exact about this but this is what happens and I forgot what it is called. He said it became so bad constantly he began having panic attacks.
Oh my goodness that's a horror story. Yeah depriving your brain of the sensory input it's used to dealing with feels like a recipe for disaster. Hopefully he was able to recalibrate.
I ve allways lissend to studio monitors growing up thanks to my childhood friend who is a producer. It was the easyer way for me since i don t like amplifiers and studio monitors are amplified. But today after work i m finaly getting some “hi fi” speakaers (Klipsch the sevens) that are also amplified. Really curious to hear what i have been missing out on all theese years. Alot of people told me that studio monitors are not for listening music! I don t dissagree but it was the easyer way for me. My last pair were M-Audio Bx8 D3.
Some studio monitors totally sound amazing with good music and some are just a tool to help the engineer hear certain things. I think you can have some overlap, it isn't a firm rule. Enjoy the new Klipsch!
Love your content on audio, especially speaker construction and design, learned much on sample rates and dithering from you too. I always watch your videos when they pop up. Crossing my fingers on the contest.
Thank you for your channel I myself was a professional DJ nightclub DJ and also did professional or pro sound reinforcement and I am an audio file as a result of my vintage equipment and gear but after listening to your video, it really showed me how important it is to hear it from your vantage point and be able to put the profiles together as a sound engineer and an audio file. I’ve learned a lot from you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate ityour channel I’ve only been on aware of your channel for maybe a month or two I think and I have a pretty amazing set up if I can send you a pic
I am glad that i saw your videos and i wish to learn more from you as a music lover and also loving doing diy project like your bookshelf speaker,hoping to win your speaker when time come's.thank you so much.👌
I stopped going to concerts after seeing Bob Mould; undoubtedly, it was the most insanely loud and distorted concert I've ever attended. My ears rang for two days after.
Yikes. Yeah I had a similar experience once awhile back, it scared the shit out of me. Saw Alkaline Trio in a tiny club and was up on 3rd floor near the ceiling and it was not enjoyable. Scared me into earplugs ever since.
I am musician Studio Engineer, and an Audiophile. I had bring those two together, in my head, a long time ago. It is a definite possibility. There are some great speakers that do both very well. I would love to win a pair of your creations to check out. Seems like you are in the sweet spot with your designs
A fellow both sider like myself. I love the engineering side and the hifi enjoyment side but sometimes they have to be separate systems. And yeah I'm trying to build speakers that cover both. Thanks for your comment and good luck in the contest!
Good luck everyone. Thanks for your input on this topic and I agree, and as audio engineers generally know more about audio and the process it takes to make a song sound good, we could educate the audiophiles we personally know on how their needs differ from ours... basically everything you said in this video :)
Great video Mate, this is a big question I have, it is better to get a nice Interface or a DAC; it is worth mentioning that I don't record a lot, mostly I work with mixes and masters, thanks for the info.
See if you can research which DAC chip the interface or DAC unit is using. I know the SSL 12 is a 32 bit DAC, so maybe see if you can get the best of both worlds going with that.
First time seeing your channel, do you know anything about surround sound. I want to learn more about reproduction of true surround audio. I love everything audio including musical instrument.
This is wonderful video with great information. Information that is very much needed in our community of music lovers. I congratulate you for your professionalism and positive constructive and conciliatory attitude. I am now an admirer of your work and a subscriber of your channel.
Personally, I like speakers with a flat frequency response, and I prefer to listen to music at moderate levels, which is why I don't go to concerts much, the levels used there seem excessive to me.
Your videos that you did on the king r04y speakers were the dumbest (aka the best) videos on those speakers. The other videos you’ve done on studio monitors is still awesome as hell.
I listen on 4 inch passive 2-way speakers at around 115cm triangle at around 60 decibels and on headphones around 40-50 decibels (I listen for long periods so I keep the volume lowered as I write music for hours) . I mix as an artist and how I listen is that I reference high end vocal music and compare that to my real life experience on how I personally like the voice to sound like and that is also how I dsp correct my second pair of speakers to sound as real as possible (for my ears) . Pop music is mostly mixed flat but how I mix is more following to the sensitivity to my own ear so it sounds more hi-fi to me or as realistic as possible. But at the end of it all I still have to mix and master the music and so when referencing levels or curves I still aim for a flat response but with more low end and a cut where ears generally are more sensitive too fatigue. So how I expereince mixing is that I record and mix it as it should sound from my perspective as realistic as possible and not ; mixing together flat speaker response with a flat music response. I don't like flat music response as much becasue it doesn't follow the Fletcher Munson Curves (so I listen to music less loud so it sounds darker and more correct). But mixing on flat speakers and aiming for a flat music eq response that will be the safest product to make.... but I think the flater the music is produced and the more correct the speaker follows the f m curves that will become a Hi-Fi speaker = making one flat song sound as real as possible. but also as I am mixing my music following the opposite approach but listening on "flat speakers" that also becomes Hi-Fi but not the speaker but the song. = making any flat speaker sound good playing the same music. So every song can kinda become Hi-Fi but not on every pair of speakers. You need to personally find songs that match the speaker curve for it to become hi-fi. So will mixing for hi-fi make hi-fi speakers obsolete ? or the other way around ? or do hi-fi speakers need to become dsp corrected too if I want to listen to flat music and hi-fi music or just have 2 systems for the spectrum of music I listen to ? I've tried mixing both ways and both ways sounds good in a car and on any normal home shelf speaker. To my ears at least.... And I think the simplest thing would be to just listen to hi-fi on a set volume and flat music a bit quieter for the curves to be more in the same zone and that is only the eq part of things nothing else about the separation,soundstage,resolution or whatnot. Making flat music for tv room space is making it simple for a consumer to just raise or lower the volume for the sounds eq curve to sit just right for that persons taste.
Is it weird that I need big low end as an audio engineer? I consider myself a bass head that also loves hifi and measured flat above 100 hzif under 100 is flat and not boasted I can’t mix the low end. Maybe because I grew up with cerwin vegas in house. Then started recording and mixing with em for the first 12 years of the hobby. Idk. But flat always sounds too thin to me. I like a gradual low shelf 12db per octave for 90hz Down . About 8db in lift.
I'm a bass head too! In the 90s I had crazy systems in my cars. At one point I had an 18" and a 12" sub in the trunk of a 1988 Chevy Cavalier 😂 my buddy had Cerwin-Vega subs. I remember those orange-red surrounds. Love me some Techmaster P.E.B. and DJ Magic Mike. Always been a fan of legit lows which is why building the King RO4Y MKIIIs has been such a great thing for me. Thanks for your comment!
@@SocialClubSound Ive also built several subwoofer systems in cars .. Some for some buddies as well .. As i mix i like a 30 , 40 , 50 hz sin wave at -10 db to sound like it has the same volume at 1k , 2k , 4k ext ... I like nearly flat to ear .. I know everybodys ears are different and fletcher mundson comes into play .. I like to mix around 75db at the mixing postition . Anyhow I am planning on buying this kit and giving this a try as a big upgrade vs my hs8's next year .. I do have a few peerless by tympany 350f 15 inch subs im about to put into the room now for low end extension ... Im hoping that when i do this monitor build that they will be only for show by then .. LOL
I love listening to music and making it too. I do think it’s difficult to get speakers that would cover both aspects but often wondered how you can mix something for hi-fi speakers without listening to the mix on those speakers. :-/
However, I did get used to mixing on a particular pair of near field monitors and knew what they sounded like (even when working with clients who thought it was too toppy! They’d go back home and find it was ok. :-)
Exactly, knowing your equipment is often more important than the quality of the equipment. Because if you can compensate for the shortcomings you know are there, they're no longer shortcomings. Glad you were able to get that oh so important translation!
I just love the fact that still to this day every second studio you go to has a pair of NS-10s for reference even tho they don't necessarily sound the best and are so mid range focused. Really shows you that the engineers prioritize the honesty of a sound system over how hyped a pair of speakers can be. Great video man. The Fletcher Munson curve and being able to find good reference material to use in an unfamiliar setup has been night and day so far for me doing freelance work!
I sold my NS-10s for a 3 year period and I really struggled adapting to other speakers, so the NS-10S were back. And then I got Amphion One18 and they did great without the fatigue and frequency limitations of the NS-10S. But nothing has ever been close to these King RO4Y MKIIIs I built. They're truly the King 👑
@@SocialClubSound That's so awesome man! Those KingR04Y's look insane!! I bet they pack a punch lol. Thanks for all the great content, I'm loving the work you do! I'd love to get your thoughts on having a commercial studio space vs a home studio space? I'd love to get space eventually but the initial overheads are very intimidating, especially since I'm still super new to pursuing audio full time haha.
Do the music producers listen to the final music mix on bright or warm speakers? Do they make the final decisions only based on how it sounds on the flat studio monitors? The producers also like the music warm or bright? So it should be already included in the music. It is super weird that by buying a speaker you decide if all the music will be warm or bright. Is there really no way to decide on the case by case? Is listening on studio monitors the closest to how the music was intended? It is also weird that on YT there are plenty of videos explaining how bad studio monitors are for regular listening. But checking the comparison of every studio monitor vs regular speakers (at least up to $500) on YT, in the comment section the studio monitor always wins.
Music producers usually try to use flat studio monitors while creating. The reason being, in the creation process, you need something neutral. Whether a song is mixed and mastered to sound warm or bright depends on decisions from the mixing and mastering engineers. If you start with a hifi speaker that covers up details and hides mistakes, you can't fix what lurks beneath. Sometimes Hifi speakers can make the recordings sound better than they really are by not resolving all the details. So by creating on neutral speakers it's easier to steer a song towards the direction the artist desires, either warm or bright. And those are mixing and mastering decisions. And that's why we need speakers that tell us the truth. After the music is finished and put into the world then we can enjoy it on "nicer" sounding speakers, but those "nicer" speakers aren't always as honest to the source material. And for me, I prefer to hear the recording as clean and clear as possible. If it sounds boring, that isn't the speaker's fault, it's the engineers! I hope that helps explain!
That is exactly my point. If the engineers do a good job why should I choose hifi speakers over the studio monitors (not taking into account the setup, near field etc.) to listen to the music? Btw great work and thanks for the deep dive!
Can you make a video explaining everything about bass radiators? I've never understood how a ported speaker with a radiator on the port is classified as sealed. Thanks. I hope I win.🎸
@@SocialClubSound Awesome! I've always assumed that sealed monitors are more forgiving of improperly treated rooms. Ports seem to me like an artificial way of reproducing low frequencies.
I use 4 DB25 connectors in & 4 DB25 connectors out from Orion to Sigma and back to Orion. The Sigma gets it's automation via Ethernet. I break down my whole signal flow in my How I Built a SSL Hybrid Console video if you're interested
As someone who changes out speakers frequently I’m always tempted to try using studio monitors in my system, I watch videos like this to make me think more about choices.
Even audiophiles can have a hard time hearing the difference between, for example...a $300 microphone in the mix and a $5000 mic in the mix. Having great equipment is nice, but it's totally possible to get really great sound out of budget equpiment if you know what you're doing.
Practice, practice, practice. Experience will give your sound far more of a improvement than high end equipment will. Don't underestimate room treatment either lol.
Great video.
85 db average does feel like the sweet spot. It’s loud and fun and does not fatigue you as quickly. Past that not only causes damage, but reflections become more noticeable.
I read this quote one time that said: Audiophiles do not use their systems to listen to your music, they use your music to listen to their systems.
I'm fully in support of bridging the gap between the two camps.
Let's cross the Bernie Bridge!
It's an interesting thing when you're a musician. Trying to replicate the feeling of a concert scene or a garage type get-together is something else to experience. Car audio can be powerful and is an experience as well. I want to merge them all.
Lol that's funny
The equal loudness curves helped me get bass volume and PEQ just right.
I’ve gone back and forward around this for years and landed in a place where I most care about a generally-flat in-room response and clean amplification. There’s something about that combination that lets me sit back and enjoy the music-from both a production and consumption perspective. That combo gives music a sense of ease and engagement that lines up with my aesthetic preferences.
Interesting speakers. Loved your build video for the Seas King RO4Y mk3. One day maybe.
Thanks! Appreciate you watching 🙏🏼 good luck in the contest!
I definitely consider myself both an Audiophile and Studio Engineer. Good video and great info. Thanks
I'm a local producer when I record people I put my beat on -10db and the recording track on -8.6 sometimes on -15db that way i leave room for mixing and mastering and my interface i put on 50% and also on the pc in sound settings but I'm using a dvd and two 10inch speakers
My dad told me that he stopped being an audiophile whenever he realized that his setup probably was more expensive than the engineer's setup that made the music.
Yeah the audiophile rabbit hole goes deep!!! We have it on the studio side too. Whenever I have money to dedicate to a piece of gear, I always ask myself what's the farthest I can stretch this money to have the biggest impact on my system. And that thinking has worked well for me over the years. Thanks for the comment!
Count me in!
I found you today. Instantly subscribed. Thanks for your great videos.
Glad you found me! Thanks for the subscription. Cheers!
Full-time audiophile part time producer! I agree with you over being able to hear the details in the audio. In a perfect world I would have studio monitors AND audiophile speakers. cause why not ?
This was a great video. Please keep on teaching like this when you can, it’s going to help the next generation of audiophiles and mixing/mastering engineers a ton. 👏 I’m long past due using a meter to monitor my listening volume. I’ve started mixing at much lower volumes and it’s helping the mixes out immensely.
There's a place for all of us to live in the world of audio playback, haha. Obviously, im biased towards the studio side, but I know a few audiofiles, and the passion is equal, in my opinion. We can learn from each other and at the end of the day, that's what it's about
I don’t listen to music the same way that my audiophile friends do. I dissect and analyze the music itself, not so much from the perspective of how closely the music sounds like a great live performance. I don’t necessarily enjoy music in my studio as much as I do in my car.
I literally just found my dream studio setup thanks to the recent video you put out about how you set up yours!
Now the trouble will be finding a discontinued Sigma that's in good shape I guess
I consider myself both. I approach my audiophile side with science (measurements) and also feel. The speakers in the studio and the speakers at home should have a different sound/eq to them. One should represent the uncolored version of sound the other should enhance the experience of media listening.
Why not both? The most enjoyable listens I: 've done are in studios when everyone sits back and says "That's it!"
I have to admit that i love gear in itself. Music and sound is always the priority, and i don't need much for that. But i also enjoy just trying new and shiny stuff for the sake of it.
When I got into home audio I did a ton of research and was told the use of subwoofers and studio monitors weren't hifi, at the time I also needed a new PC speakers so I bought some studio monitors and a sub eventually a 2nd sub.and I love the sound and still use them at my desk today. ffw 12 yrs later my fellow audiophiles are using subs powered speakers and inching towards a flattened response 😂
I use dsp on my PC and have used Munson curve but prefer it more flat at my listening position not for work just to enjoy.
It might be time for some new monitors so sign me up and thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I say go for what sounds right to you. We all hear differently and I'm always reluctant to follow the rules of you can't do this or that. Thanks for the comment!
Why cant we be friends ? Audiophiles and studio engineers just want good sound.
All audiophilers have no the same quality of hearing sound and have their own reference or taste of judging the speaker sound quality and also the ear of the ordinary audio listeners....there is no doubt about it
10hz needs to be a standard, I enjoy infrasonic, it doenst need to be loud, i built a small bluetooth that play down to 15 and its fantastic.
Do you feel that the DAC is more important in resolving the details in the mix ?
If so what DAC's would you recommend as a crossover for audiophiles and mastering.
I think the DAC is a crucial part of the chain, but if your speakers don't have enough resolution, you'll never hear the extra resolution in the DAC. Know what I mean? Speaker resolution is still the last part of the chain and you really don't want that to be the weak point.
DAC wise, I use Antelope for my DAC and Dangerous for ADC. Each have their own clocks and sometimes I'll change the clocking for the Antelope, I'll slave it to the Dangerous clock. And they have very different profiles. Some artists prefer the extra resolution of the Antelope clocking but some people prefer the way Dangerous clocking handles the low ends and smooths out the highs.
Hope that helps! Thanks for the thoughtful comment
Just subscribed to the channel, excellent content, I appreciate all your efforts.
Thanks for your reply, I'm more on the audiophile side but also get flac from other audiophiles because I tend to error on the side of neutrality, I want to hear how engineers like you planned for it to sound with every detail, so that was the reason for my question on DAC's because it seems like there no such thing as a neutral DAC, they all resolve details different.@@SocialClubSound
@@Bigirondoug thanks for the subscription! Yeah as good as it is to talk it out with other folks about audio we each hear in our own way. That's why I think the empathy should be welcomed. Don't let people make you feel a certain way about the gear you love and that lends itself to the way you hear. Thanks again for the subscription, have a good one!
I am enjoying learning a lot of things I have often wondered about and many I have not. Thanks Von
Glad they've been helpful! Thanks for the comment too!
Thanks for asking about studio SPL. I’ve been mixing and mastering in my home studio for years and know where I set the dB level on preamp and generally know how loud I prefer to listen, but I never actually measured the in-room SPL - until now. I will measure with a free version of a smartphone app called Decibel X:dB Sound Level Meter with A-Weighting and Slow (500ms) response time.
Not sure I believe the quiet measurement but it’s bouncing between 25-28dB. Turning up the music to my default quiet listening level to hear various instruments and voices pop while building a mix, I measured between 50-58dB for the loud part of a song. For my typical loud level, I measured between 67-75dB.
BTW - great channel you have there!
Nice! Thanks for all the info. Good luck in the contest!
I came to your video for the reason of doing my own set up of speakers. I learned a lot from your videos. More eargasm for you sir. Kudos
I wonder how many people are audiophiles but don’t know it.
Found your videos today and I'm surprised that your videos have so few views, the content is great.
I think the conversation around speakers/gear setup according to your needs is an interesting one, generally because it focuses on practicality. You can be an audiophile in it for the love of sound even if you have a really tight budget, or you can be an artist like Andrew Huang who needs crazy amounts of dsp to compensate for hearing degeneration. We're all just doing what works for us, really.
Personally I don't care for playing stuff loud, so I usually keep my music around talking level which I think is roughly 60-70db. Dune 2 was fun to watch in theatres, but I definitely enjoyed it more after I put my earplugs in. I think it's really just whatever floats your boat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thank you! 🙏🏼 I'm hoping one day the algorithm will find me but for now I'm just going to try to keep putting out quality content and hope it gets noticed!
Good call on the reasonable listening level. Gotta protect the ears! Thanks for your comment! 🙏🏼
Can’t we all just get along!🤣 Great video and perspective.
I have a similar question, too. Why don’t audiophiles like “pro” speakers? And another question: it seems not many musicians are audiophiles, why?
Both good questions! I don't know that I have answers but I'll tell you my thoughts. As mentioned in the video "pro" speakers tend to be flatter and that's often interpreted as sterile. In the studio that's what we want. But to an audiophile it might sound boring because the frequency response doesn't emphasize any area of the frequency spectrum. Audiophiles tend to like that high end bump that most hifi speakers provide. But like Bernie found out, sounding good doesn't equate to highly resolving. You can have both, but you don't always get both.
As for the musicians as audiophiles question. I'm not really sure! Could be too many live shows blew out the hearing. Could be they can't afford it because they spent all their extra money on music gear. Not really sure but thanks for the great questions!
@@SocialClubSound most of audiophiles don’t like equalizers; they want to play music “flat” from their systems. I guess their definition of “flat” is different from yours. And…it seems like most audiophiles are males; is there a reason behind it?
The speaker is the heart of any sound system along with a good amp, I would like to win a set of speakers of this class to use in my new office setup.
I’m so glad I came across this video when I did because I’m building my home studio and I have everything I need EXCEPT studio monitors 😅 all my songs are mixed in my headphones and then played in my car to check 😂
Either way, awesome video and you’ve earned a subscriber for the love of music we share 🔥🙏🏾
Thanks! And good luck in the contest!
7” aluminum 😮 not 6.5” to 8” interesting 🧐. I do love it loud, 89-103db, but in short spirntz. Running unbranded 12” two way P.A. With horns 😅 n 6th order 8” 400w 16’x19’ room hung from the ceiling Just an audioNut🎉
Yeah, 7" woofer. Just slightly oversized from the 6.5" but noticable. When I had these next to my Amphion One18s you could see the woofer was just a bit bigger with a bigger surround. 103 is loud!!! Keep those sprints short! Thanks for the comment!
Just recently discovered your channel, looks like I have some catching up to do. Looking forward to watching Speakers vs Studio Monitors next.
Welcome aboard! I hope you like what you see and stick around
I like your team spirit and outlook on the audio fidelity industry as an engineer and a listener as well!
Well said my friend!👍
i wish i had money to buy studio monitors I'm from south Africa did what you said brother
I'm needing to replace some aging studio monitors and stumbled on your channel searching about the SEAS KingRO4Y Mk III kit. Now I can win some monitors! Awesome.
Best of luck with it! And if you have any questions on the kit feel free to ask!
Excellent product! You hit the bar very well with 7in woofer and 1in tweeter @ 8 ohms. I need those for my near field reference to complement my mains. I cannot stand the NS-10M anymore
Thank you and good luck in the contest! Yeah the NS-10s are good tools but they're not fun to work on. These are much easier on the ears. Lower distortion, lower fatigue.
Found your account through your SSL mixing console video, and found this at the right time! The winner of these speakers will be very lucky, and I love the idea of unifying music creators and music appreciators. Cheers!
Thanks for checking this one out too! Best of luck in the contest!
Great info, I think im just stuck in the middle between the two
Theirs an interesting opposite effect that happens from over protecting your ears as well, I believe Gregory Scott from Kush audio had this problem where he was constantly plugging his ears where it wasn’t needed, things like to bed , at the movies etc. basically your ear and brain over compensate when your hearing your ears start increasing how loud frequencies are heard and it becomes increasingly worse and harsh like someone is increasing the gain between 1k-5k im probably not exact about this but this is what happens and I forgot what it is called. He said it became so bad constantly he began having panic attacks.
Oh my goodness that's a horror story. Yeah depriving your brain of the sensory input it's used to dealing with feels like a recipe for disaster. Hopefully he was able to recalibrate.
I enjoy the specs of he video. Thanks for the opportunity.
Just stumbled upon your channel. straight foward and great information. Looking forward to future videos :D
Thank you! Glad you discovered my videos
I ve allways lissend to studio monitors growing up thanks to my childhood friend who is a producer. It was the easyer way for me since i don t like amplifiers and studio monitors are amplified. But today after work i m finaly getting some “hi fi” speakaers (Klipsch the sevens) that are also amplified. Really curious to hear what i have been missing out on all theese years. Alot of people told me that studio monitors are not for listening music! I don t dissagree but it was the easyer way for me. My last pair were M-Audio Bx8 D3.
Some studio monitors totally sound amazing with good music and some are just a tool to help the engineer hear certain things. I think you can have some overlap, it isn't a firm rule. Enjoy the new Klipsch!
Love your content on audio, especially speaker construction and design, learned much on sample rates and dithering from you too. I always watch your videos when they pop up. Crossing my fingers on the contest.
Much appreciated! And best of luck in the contest. You're entered!
Thank you for your channel I myself was a professional DJ nightclub DJ and also did professional or pro sound reinforcement and I am an audio file as a result of my vintage equipment and gear but after listening to your video, it really showed me how important it is to hear it from your vantage point and be able to put the profiles together as a sound engineer and an audio file. I’ve learned a lot from you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate ityour channel I’ve only been on aware of your channel for maybe a month or two I think and I have a pretty amazing set up if I can send you a pic
Thank you! I started as a DJ in 1996 before my engineering days! Cheers!
I am glad that i saw your videos and i wish to learn more from you as a music lover and also loving doing diy project like your bookshelf speaker,hoping to win your speaker when time come's.thank you so much.👌
Thanks for your comment! Are there any DIY projects you specifically hope to see? And best of luck in the contest!
I stopped going to concerts after seeing Bob Mould; undoubtedly, it was the most insanely loud and distorted concert I've ever attended. My ears rang for two days after.
Yikes. Yeah I had a similar experience once awhile back, it scared the shit out of me. Saw Alkaline Trio in a tiny club and was up on 3rd floor near the ceiling and it was not enjoyable. Scared me into earplugs ever since.
I am musician Studio Engineer, and an Audiophile. I had bring those two together, in my head, a long time ago. It is a definite possibility. There are some great speakers that do both very well. I would love to win a pair of your creations to check out. Seems like you are in the sweet spot with your designs
A fellow both sider like myself. I love the engineering side and the hifi enjoyment side but sometimes they have to be separate systems. And yeah I'm trying to build speakers that cover both. Thanks for your comment and good luck in the contest!
Good luck everyone. Thanks for your input on this topic and I agree, and as audio engineers generally know more about audio and the process it takes to make a song sound good, we could educate the audiophiles we personally know on how their needs differ from ours... basically everything you said in this video :)
Thanks for watching. Good luck!
Great video Mate, this is a big question I have, it is better to get a nice Interface or a DAC; it is worth mentioning that I don't record a lot, mostly I work with mixes and masters, thanks for the info.
See if you can research which DAC chip the interface or DAC unit is using. I know the SSL 12 is a 32 bit DAC, so maybe see if you can get the best of both worlds going with that.
Totally agree. There is a lot to share between audiophiles and engineers. I like to add, I don't like to divide.
80 - 85 db for listening.
Sounds good on all counts! Thanks for your comment
First time seeing your channel, do you know anything about surround sound. I want to learn more about reproduction of true surround audio. I love everything audio including musical instrument.
I've built a few surround sound systems over the years but nothing OD. I have some friends who take it very seriously!
This is wonderful video with great information. Information that is very much needed in our community of music lovers. I congratulate you for your professionalism and positive constructive and conciliatory attitude. I am now an admirer of your work and a subscriber of your channel.
Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words and the thoughtful comment. Best of luck in the contest!
I listen at 70-85 in the car and 60-75 at home (measured with my phone so it may not be perfectly accurate)
Nice! Thanks for sharing
Amazing UA-cam channel thank you I’m an audiophile but am learning to appreciate studio monitor sound
Excellent and thank you!
Really informative video with a bonus giveaway! Thank you.
You're Welcome. Glad it was helpful!
Just subbed, loving the videos so far. Thanks for the opportunity of entering!
Awesome! Thank you! Entered!
Sir you are right flat frequency response of speakers is the must reference.....engineering standard indeed
im a death metal (amatuer) producer and mixer and musician but i get alot out of this channel! Thankyou mate appreciate your work!
Nice! Thanks for watching my videos
Personally, I like speakers with a flat frequency response, and I prefer to listen to music at moderate levels, which is why I don't go to concerts much, the levels used there seem excessive to me.
Same! Too loud just isn't enjoyable to me. Thanks for your comment!
After my car accident I have returned to music and hardest thing is to find a good monitors---thanx for the opportunity...
Best of luck with it!
Dang them speakers looking noice
Thanks, good luck in the contest!
Came here to enter the giveaway, and I've already watched and liked the video. On point as usual, great video.
Thanks for entering. Good luck!
Great stuff , just subbed and I’m looking forward to your content !
Thank you!
Just found your channel because of the Seas video been doing a deep dive. Thank you for sharing some great knowledge along the way.
Glad you found the channel. Thanks for watching!
Your videos that you did on the king r04y speakers were the dumbest (aka the best) videos on those speakers. The other videos you’ve done on studio monitors is still awesome as hell.
That video was a monster just like the speakers! Glad you enjoyed it. If there's anything you want to see me cover in the future just holler!
Hey brother thanks for this video. The insights about how audio works, awesome. Blessings
Thanks for the comment!!! Much appreciated
I’m new to this thank you so much for breaking this down 🙌🏽🙌🏽🎶
Thanks for watching! Glad I could help
I listen on 4 inch passive 2-way speakers at around 115cm triangle at around 60 decibels and on headphones around 40-50 decibels (I listen for long periods so I keep the volume lowered as I write music for hours) . I mix as an artist and how I listen is that I reference high end vocal music and compare that to my real life experience on how I personally like the voice to sound like and that is also how I dsp correct my second pair of speakers to sound as real as possible (for my ears) .
Pop music is mostly mixed flat but how I mix is more following to the sensitivity to my own ear so it sounds more hi-fi to me or as realistic as possible. But at the end of it all I still have to mix and master the music and so when referencing levels or curves I still aim for a flat response but with more low end and a cut where ears generally are more sensitive too fatigue.
So how I expereince mixing is that I record and mix it as it should sound from my perspective as realistic as possible and not ; mixing together flat speaker response with a flat music response. I don't like flat music response as much becasue it doesn't follow the Fletcher Munson Curves (so I listen to music less loud so it sounds darker and more correct). But mixing on flat speakers and aiming for a flat music eq response that will be the safest product to make....
but I think the flater the music is produced and the more correct the speaker follows the f m curves that will become a Hi-Fi speaker = making one flat song sound as real as possible.
but also as I am mixing my music following the opposite approach but listening on "flat speakers" that also becomes Hi-Fi but not the speaker but the song. = making any flat speaker sound good playing the same music.
So every song can kinda become Hi-Fi but not on every pair of speakers. You need to personally find songs that match the speaker curve for it to become hi-fi.
So will mixing for hi-fi make hi-fi speakers obsolete ? or the other way around ? or do hi-fi speakers need to become dsp corrected too if I want to listen to flat music and hi-fi music or just have 2 systems for the spectrum of music I listen to ?
I've tried mixing both ways and both ways sounds good in a car and on any normal home shelf speaker. To my ears at least....
And I think the simplest thing would be to just listen to hi-fi on a set volume and flat music a bit quieter for the curves to be more in the same zone and that is only the eq part of things nothing else about the separation,soundstage,resolution or whatnot. Making flat music for tv room space is making it simple for a consumer to just raise or lower the volume for the sounds eq curve to sit just right for that persons taste.
I watched your video build and was impressed. Fingers crossed!
Thanks for watching. Best of luck in the contest
I was doing research about studio monitors when I came across this video. Thanks for the information. Fingers crossed for a chance to win!
Best of luck!
Von Hertzog is Audio Headmaster and I’m proud to be one of his students.
Wow this speaker will probably sound amazing in my house ❤😊
Best of luck!
Stoked I found your channel
Been a mix engineer for over a decade and also dabble in HiFi…
Cheers
I'm glad you found it too! Hopefully I can keep you interested!
Is it weird that I need big low end as an audio engineer? I consider myself a bass head that also loves hifi and measured flat above 100 hzif under 100 is flat and not boasted I can’t mix the low end. Maybe because I grew up with cerwin vegas in house. Then started recording and mixing with em for the first 12 years of the hobby. Idk. But flat always sounds too thin to me. I like a gradual low shelf 12db per octave for 90hz Down . About 8db in lift.
I'm a bass head too! In the 90s I had crazy systems in my cars. At one point I had an 18" and a 12" sub in the trunk of a 1988 Chevy Cavalier 😂 my buddy had Cerwin-Vega subs. I remember those orange-red surrounds. Love me some Techmaster P.E.B. and DJ Magic Mike. Always been a fan of legit lows which is why building the King RO4Y MKIIIs has been such a great thing for me. Thanks for your comment!
@@SocialClubSound Ive also built several subwoofer systems in cars .. Some for some buddies as well .. As i mix i like a 30 , 40 , 50 hz sin wave at -10 db to sound like it has the same volume at 1k , 2k , 4k ext ... I like nearly flat to ear .. I know everybodys ears are different and fletcher mundson comes into play .. I like to mix around 75db at the mixing postition . Anyhow I am planning on buying this kit and giving this a try as a big upgrade vs my hs8's next year .. I do have a few peerless by tympany 350f 15 inch subs im about to put into the room now for low end extension ... Im hoping that when i do this monitor build that they will be only for show by then .. LOL
Heyy I can’t believe I didn’t realize you had a YT channel before now! I have a lot to catch up on ❤
Well I'm glad you found it and I hope you enjoy!!! Thanks for the comment too 🙏🏼
Everyone's ears 👂 are not same shape, sizes, depths you name it. We all hear the same things DIFFERENTLY period!!!
This is something I wish I could do research on. I feel that the perception of audio is important information. It can change lives.
I'd love to audition those speakers/monitors
My nest friend wants me to get these...but sheeesh. A little heavy on the pockets for now.
Well maybe you can win them. Good luck!
I think the dynamic of contrasting the ideas of studio engineers and audiophiles is a great idea.
I think there's plenty of overlap for us to all get along
Hell yeah! Need to start upgrading my turntable setup
Thanks for your comment, best of luck in the contest!
Very nice set of monitors , would change my life right now.
Best of luck in the contest!
Learned a lot from these videos. Thank you, keep and keep up the good work!
Glad to hear it!
Thank you for the great educational video as always!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your comment
I love listening to music and making it too. I do think it’s difficult to get speakers that would cover both aspects but often wondered how you can mix something for hi-fi speakers without listening to the mix on those speakers. :-/
However, I did get used to mixing on a particular pair of near field monitors and knew what they sounded like (even when working with clients who thought it was too toppy! They’d go back home and find it was ok. :-)
Exactly, knowing your equipment is often more important than the quality of the equipment. Because if you can compensate for the shortcomings you know are there, they're no longer shortcomings. Glad you were able to get that oh so important translation!
So glad to find your channel, this is exciting!!!
Welcome!!
Seams like you have a great line of speakers going here :-) Would love to have a pair of my own
Thank you and best of luck in the contest!
I just love the fact that still to this day every second studio you go to has a pair of NS-10s for reference even tho they don't necessarily sound the best and are so mid range focused. Really shows you that the engineers prioritize the honesty of a sound system over how hyped a pair of speakers can be. Great video man. The Fletcher Munson curve and being able to find good reference material to use in an unfamiliar setup has been night and day so far for me doing freelance work!
I sold my NS-10s for a 3 year period and I really struggled adapting to other speakers, so the NS-10S were back. And then I got Amphion One18 and they did great without the fatigue and frequency limitations of the NS-10S. But nothing has ever been close to these King RO4Y MKIIIs I built. They're truly the King 👑
@@SocialClubSound That's so awesome man! Those KingR04Y's look insane!! I bet they pack a punch lol. Thanks for all the great content, I'm loving the work you do! I'd love to get your thoughts on having a commercial studio space vs a home studio space? I'd love to get space eventually but the initial overheads are very intimidating, especially since I'm still super new to pursuing audio full time haha.
This is very informative 👏, especially for a beginner like me
I'm so glad! I appreciate the comment
Do the music producers listen to the final music mix on bright or warm speakers? Do they make the final decisions only based on how it sounds on the flat studio monitors? The producers also like the music warm or bright? So it should be already included in the music. It is super weird that by buying a speaker you decide if all the music will be warm or bright. Is there really no way to decide on the case by case? Is listening on studio monitors the closest to how the music was intended? It is also weird that on YT there are plenty of videos explaining how bad studio monitors are for regular listening. But checking the comparison of every studio monitor vs regular speakers (at least up to $500) on YT, in the comment section the studio monitor always wins.
Music producers usually try to use flat studio monitors while creating. The reason being, in the creation process, you need something neutral. Whether a song is mixed and mastered to sound warm or bright depends on decisions from the mixing and mastering engineers. If you start with a hifi speaker that covers up details and hides mistakes, you can't fix what lurks beneath. Sometimes Hifi speakers can make the recordings sound better than they really are by not resolving all the details. So by creating on neutral speakers it's easier to steer a song towards the direction the artist desires, either warm or bright. And those are mixing and mastering decisions. And that's why we need speakers that tell us the truth. After the music is finished and put into the world then we can enjoy it on "nicer" sounding speakers, but those "nicer" speakers aren't always as honest to the source material. And for me, I prefer to hear the recording as clean and clear as possible. If it sounds boring, that isn't the speaker's fault, it's the engineers! I hope that helps explain!
That is exactly my point. If the engineers do a good job why should I choose hifi speakers over the studio monitors (not taking into account the setup, near field etc.) to listen to the music? Btw great work and thanks for the deep dive!
Can you make a video explaining everything about bass radiators? I've never understood how a ported speaker with a radiator on the port is classified as sealed. Thanks. I hope I win.🎸
I'm already planning a ported vs passive radiator video! Stay tuned!
@@SocialClubSound Awesome! I've always assumed that sealed monitors are more forgiving of improperly treated rooms. Ports seem to me like an artificial way of reproducing low frequencies.
Thank you for this!!! Also, my monitors suck.
Sorry to hear your monitors suck, but good luck in the contest!
thank you for introducing me to the wisdom of Bernie Grundman
Bernie is the man! Thanks for the comment 🙏🏼
Great video, very interesting and communicative 👌🏼
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment
part of the draw of Amphions for me was the mixture of audio engineer and audiophile i sensed from them
Yes for sure! I had the Amphion One18 for four years and I was very much accustomed to working on them. That waveguide really had a signature
Hey bro love your set up, I have some questions on the how do you hook up from Orion to the sigma? Is it. Optical or db 25 or Ethernet ?
I use 4 DB25 connectors in & 4 DB25 connectors out from Orion to Sigma and back to Orion. The Sigma gets it's automation via Ethernet. I break down my whole signal flow in my How I Built a SSL Hybrid Console video if you're interested
Thank you for that. I’ve been watching you videos, they are awesome, I’m a producer turning into a mixer and mastering,
I am a self proclaimed audiophile and studio engineer 😊
We can be both! Thanks for the comment
I am pretty new to this topic but this video has helped me out quite a bit, thanks!!
Thanks for taking the time to watch and thanks for your comment!
🎶Why cant we be friends ? 🎶Why cant we be friends ? 🎶Audiophiles and studio engineers just want good sound.
As someone who changes out speakers frequently I’m always tempted to try using studio monitors in my system, I watch videos like this to make me think more about choices.
Thanks for your comment. Let me know if you ever give it a shot!