Quest 3 VS PCVR and PSVR2 - The future of VR
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Welcome back, today we are discussing if PCVR or the PSVR2 is better than the Quest 3. It's not really a Quest 3 VS PCVR or Quest 3 VS PSVR2 competition but rather a discussion of where VR is headed. Additionally we'll discuss how good Asgard's Wrath 2 is and why I call it the Half-Life Alyx of the Meta Quest 3.
Intro 00:00
Sponsored Ad 01:07
Learning More about VR 01:35
PCVR is "better" 02:35
PCVR isn't the future 03:20
What is "better" 05:00
PSVR 2 is struggling 06:00
What is AAA 06:40
Asgard's Wrath 2 is Meta's HLA 07:30
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Lots of great points man. Appreciate hearing your thoughts on stuff like this. Glad you're all good after the surgery!
I'm not interested in some future mythic land of milk and honey, I'm more concerned with what is available to me now. The games I enjoy playing the most are all PCVR games. I have a fairly large library of standalone games but they fail "grab me" in the same way that a modded PCVR title does. I am, like many others, really hyped for Praydog's soon to be released Universal Unreal Engine VR Injector, which is going to be a boon for PCVR gamers. It may even bring about more VR titles being released as it will be easier for developers to explore/create VR versions of their games with minimal development costs.
Once Ghosts of Tabor gets on PSVR2… IT IS ON LIKE DONKEY KONG
And Breachers
😮RE4 is incredible, the fact that they can develop games for flat screen and inexpensively convert it to VR can not be overlooked. This opens up so much opportunity for developers and gamers.
Don't sleep on PSVR2.
yea psvr2 has been great i have a rift s and meta quest 2 and re4 plays the same as the quest. You can beat the price sony has for high end vr. The meta quest 2 took a while to get those first party games. Sony can release and add vr modes to their first party games. the RE4 remake and vr mode did release the same year. i would not be shocked if we see rockstar and ubisoft do the same on psvr2. it's to early to say that sony wont push head sets
the thing is Quest also has RE4 AND Assassin's Creed Nexus AND Asgard's Wrath 2.
what else does PSVR2 have? simulators and Horizon that's basically just the climb, another simulator and Humanity
as of right now, PSVR2 is like an Xbox, it has good hardware but the games suck.
and before you mention graphics, most people don't really care about that otherwise Beat Saber and Gorilla Tag wouldn't be the best selling VR game heck even in non VR the best selling is Minecraft.
even if you wanna go high end PSVR2 doesn't even have Skyrim VR.
Quest does tho because it can do PCVR and most PCVR users are Quest users as well lol
I was with you until you said PCVR is dead. While I agree that going forward Quest will probably be lead platform I think it will most likely go the way of traditional flat screen gaming. The Quest is effectively a console and will have it's place as will VR in the PC space and both will still ports of made for VR games. I don't think it's anywhere near as one dimensional as you are making it but I do agree that stuff like the Quest being cheaper and more accessible will definitely get a lot more people into VR and grow the industry.
I didn't say pcvr is dead. I said no one is exclusively developing for pcvr because there is no money to be made. There is still plenty of enjoyment to have with vr but it's not the current future of vr
I am new to VR (3 days with my Quest 3) so I still need to develop my VR legs, but I am already sold on the entertainment value. I am happy with my purchase.
Welcome! My first headset was the Q2 when it came out. I have the Q3 now. It took me a good year to get my VR legs. I never thought it was going to happen 😅 then one day, it happened.
@@W-C-F-o1k TY....I will definitely be working to get mine.
When I got my quest 2 I tried hooking it up to a laptop for steam VR. It was terrible, but I eventually bought a high end PC to play. The standalone games felt like the browser game equivalent of flat screen. It's good, but eventually you should definitely get a PC too.
Well id like to think the hybrid games that have been great on psvr2 can become more common as development maybe becomes easier like the mods on pc, i think it delivers the AAA budget with far less risk for these developers. As much as i too love mobile vr, the AAA games are really the only ones that are going to bring more mainstream gamers to the medium in my opinion. So i think that should be a much bigger focus for at least sony. Quest is great but its just still not quite the fidelity that is going to bring people in id think. But if we had enough hybrid games like GT7 and RE that people already are gonna buy anyway, they would be far more likely to say “i already technically have all these games w vr mode, might as well check it out”…. Then more people will be brought in, and then developers can build less risky, vr from the ground up games in the future.
💯
@@pppp-fr6fo well im not saying re4 happens and all of a sudden everyone buys a headset. Im saying more games like re4 with the option available will be what leads to buying headsets. And re4 i would assume even after the vr mode, was not a loss for the company, it was a massive success, and i dont think them investing in the 9 months to add the vr mode diminished that to an extreme extent. So im saying instances like this, where the company will be making a profit on a successful AAA game, if they are willing to take the investment and effort to give a vr treatment, where they are not sacrificing the full loss of not having the flat screen game, would potentially bring more people into vr.
Kind of how I feel about most PCVR games I currently play (Dirt Rally 2, BeamNG, Flight Simulator 2020, Hellblade, No mans sky...)
Gonna miss pcvr. Honestly haven’t used my pimax 5k since getting a quest 3. Only thing bringing me back to pc is replaying boneworks and HL:A and even then I use steam link or air link
I started in vr with the Q2 and now the Q3. Seeing the graphics quality of a pcvr though actually makes me want one. Hoping to get one some day but the price to get in is a hit.
Get better soon my man! Do you know what font you're using for the thumbnail? I'm struggling to find the best one.😊
True! A timely, needed discussion. Keep up the good work.
I believe both PCVR and Meta are the future of the industry. Both platforms have their strengths and even cater to different types of gamers.
Hopefully. When it comes to Sim Racing, PCVR is the only way.
@@renehoude7705there’s also psvr2 for sim racing even though there’s less variety
Exactly
Great video as usual, and I’m glad your surgery went well brother. Take care of yourself!
I think things are going phenomenally, and at some stage PCVR will make a comeback as VR becomes more mainstream. I don't think it's done at all, I think it will come full circle
I've always hoped/felt that way in the past but less and less now
Tbh I’m not too worried it. As time goes on mobile chips will become monstrous just look at apple M series, IPhone 15 running the latest pc games
Thanks for the interesting insights..............May you have a speedy and successful recovery from your surgery.
I thought it was weird how hard oculus dropped PC VR when you consider how they had already developed their own PC store front; Which is almost impossible to find now.
With the Quest 2 I felt it was unacceptable, I thought it was a giant leap back for VR. We will have to see with the Quest 3 but until we can see Half life Alyx run on a mobile device as is we are not there.
It’s hard to sell people a PC when they have a computer in their pocket. The traditional PC market is circling the drain. People get a laptop for school, maybe, plenty just use a higher end iPad. People buy consoles for gaming. A few stragglers like myself still spend on a GPU for a gaming rig but we are the exception not the rule. Days of a PC in every house are pretty much over.
It depends on the country. Many eastern countries still run PCs because it's easier to pirate stuff on it and manage your things. People stay more and more at home so why would you care if your PC is stationary? Maybe we're just too old fashioned.
@@vladioanalexandru4222 I can only speak to the US. Growing up every household had at least one PC and I just don't see that anymore. Kids all have tablets, maybe an Xbox, and unless mom or dad uses a laptop for work or something they likely just have a phone. There's still a few PC enthusiasts out there but they're rare.
Always an interesting topic! Great video, Matteo! I agree that 'Right now,' developing a game exclusively for PCVR isn't financially viable. However, I still firmly believe that PCVR represents the future, the only future. According to industry leaders, cloud gaming is set to grow at an incredible rate. The future will likely be that we will be playing PCVR games via cloud gaming on mobile devices like the Quest or Deckard. This is especially true for more CPU-intensive games, such as simulation games like VTOL VR, which won't be available on standalone devices for quite some time (if ever). Once again, great video, Matteo. Let's see where this goes!
I dont believe in cloud gaming, people have been claiming its the next big thing for 20 years.
@@Gamingwithmatteo311I've been doing almost all my gaming through the cloud for the past three years!
It's still not popular, but it's very viable.
@@Gamingwithmatteo311 Over 20 million individuals have used Xbox Cloud Gaming to stream games and this is growing, and that is just Xbox. Sony getting big on it and I won't be surprised Valve stepping into it too! I have to keep believing 🤣
Cloud gaming isn’t PCVR though really. PC in general isn’t doing well and isn’t the future of anything in a smartphone world imo. Yes, streaming from a data center will be the best way to get high performance computing into mobile sized devices, but the days of every household having a family computer or more are long gone.
@@Gamingwithmatteo311 I feel that the “Infastructure,” of US internet could be a main reason why cloud gaming hasn’t gained as much traction as it could.
(Slow internet)
I absolutely agree with you Matteo, stand-alone VR is where the future of all XR technologies is.
That having been said, what ultimately needs to happen (I’ve said this numerous times before), is we need “…the One Headset to rule them all!” What I mean by that is, we need a headset as light, small and comfortable as the BigScreen; as powerful as the Varjo-XR4; as fully standalone functional as the Quest/Pico headsets; the NATIVE ability to pair with third party devices like ODTs, IMU trackers, and haptic devices; GPU power that functionally works like something akin to an Nvidia 3060; eye tracking with foveated rendering; and lastly at a consumer friendly price point.
That’s quite the ask, and obviously a future solution that’s currently outside of what the engineers can currently do. But once we “get there”, XR technologies and adjacent services (like Metaverse platforms) will go full mainstream.
In the *now*, XR is going to be what it is, mobile powered. But in someways, that it’s own good thing. For better and worse, this forces devs to figure out how to do more with coding, but with less hardware power to drive it. There’s an argument for that just on its own standing.
Yeah, that would be great and I would buy that but most people wouldn’t. People won’t even upgrade to the quest three right now which really isn’t that expensive for what you’re getting.
@@steffendetrick that's because all the games on Quest 3 are also on Quest 2, the main concern of people are the games.
@@steffendetrick and if I was just talking about nothing but gaming, I’d probably agree with you.
Think much broader practical day-to-day utility. Now keep in mind, we are talking about a Super Saiyan headset that’s as light, small, and comfortable as the BigScreen.
So that said, I absolutely SUCK at anything involving automotive maintenance, my older brother who lives all the way on the west side of Minnesota (me Columbus Ohio) is pretty good(ish). Trying to walk me through over the phone or even FaceTime/Zoom what I’m seeing and hearing is impractical at best. However, let’s assume we both have these Super Saiyan XR headsets. We both put them on, and now my brother can in real time, with near IRL level clarity see from my vantage point what I’m seeing and hear that sound. Plus with his pass through he’d be able to point at things with his hand and I could see what he’s pointing at, and/or he could take a screenshot highlight an area, and now in my view, that area will have a highlighted anchor, or highlight multiple areas in different colors and use different linking colors for different reasons.
Now apply the principled idea of this past this single use case. There’s lots of potential practical utility to an XR headset like this.
Think also about cooking and meal prep (once pass through warping is no longer an issue). You go to your pantry and you scan the available contents. The. You scan your spices in your spice rack. Then you scan your refrigerator and freezer. Now an A.I. cooking app aggregates all that and sets up a walk-through tutorial that’s sort the XR version of Blue Apron or Hello Fresh, based on what you have in your house. It would be able to properly guide you each step of the way and remind you of your missing a step or mixing something wrong.
Think about for education, especially history class. It’s pretty obvious the use cases for being able to take your class to the Roman Senate, or explore the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World and facts available throughout the experience, sort an XR Wikipedia experience.
Image what it would mean for people trapped in an iron lung, or other conditions that make leaving the confines of their life sustaining environments impossible. They could have proxies take them places and family events. Obviously that’s not the same as being able to be there in person, but it’s less terrible than staring up at a ceiling for the rest of your life.
Now, that’s all assuming the engineers can make “the headset to rule them all”. I have absolutely no idea if it is, BUT on the hypothetical that it is possible. A god tier Super Saiyan headset like this would have so many practical uses that have nothing to do with gaming.
Anyways, it’s just a thought.
@@steffendetrickthere’s not enough reason to upgrade from the 2 to 3. I’m thinking of selling my 3, it wasn’t cheap
PCVR all the way. Whoever is getting into vr now just has more than enough huge quality titles to play: The Oculus PC games before Meta got involved I.e. Stormland, The Climb, Asgards Wrath 1 …, MSFS, Elite Dangerous, The Forest, Subnautica, NMS, Hellblade I could go on forever. While superior to what we usually get now these titles are older hence with hardware advancing a pc to run them is not as expensive as it used to be. Standalone headsets are a nice addition for pc streaming and sports though.
There are good new games too, like boneworks, into the radius, Vertigo 2 , VTOL VR and so on. The PC library and platform are just better.
While I do have a Quest 3 I only purchased it so I can play the few PCVR games still out there.
Where are the flight and racing sims with the physical joysticks and or racing wheel setups for mobile VR.
I do have Asgard Wraith on the PC. Never finished it. I have no interest in purchasing part 2 on the Quest 3. Similarly I have not finished Arizona Sunshine... but am thinking about getting part 2 on Steam, not the Quest 3 or even PSVR2.
Come on Praydog's UEVR injector release for PC! And yes, excited for the new bigger games coming to stand alone too! I've been having a blast with Assassins Creed Nexus. And looking forward to playing Asgard's Wrath 2 and Arizona Sunshine 2! It's really wonderful to finally see triple A titles being developed for stand alone. Thank goodness tech demo game days are starting to also be a thing of the past. I'm happy with where we are, though sure, I wish we had triple A VR for PC too. Maybe one day.
Hi Matt, I'm with you on your vision on this. I think another thing to look at is, look at what they were able to do with the Quest 2 after it had been out 3 years, running games like Hubris, Into the Radius, even Bone Lab looked decent. The Quest 3 just came out, but what will the games it look like in 3 years? I'm just trying to keep positive thinking for our future in VR. Hope you have a great day.
I agree with your points for the most part, but completely disagree with you when you said " there's no need for PC VR ".
I recently hooked up my Quest 3 to my PC to play the first Asgards Wrath and Alyx and holy hell the difference is insane! Nothing comes close to that kind of experience
I don’t know if people without a Quest get that a quest is BOTH PCVR and Meta VR. There is no reason that you can’t buy a quest and literally spend all your time on it playing SteamVR games.
IMO, this gives it such a massive advantage over dedicated PCVR headsets. You can effortlessly swap between playing a PCVR game and a Meta game extremely easily. You can even stream your PC desktop and play flatscreen games on it anywhere in your house.
It really does have a lot of Great features.
not to mention its way easier to take my quest 3 on trips than a gaming pc set up, even a gaming laptop set up like i have. the quest 3 graphics are pretty decent
The downside is the latency versus a real PCVR headset. But right now, there's a lack of meaningful PCVR headsets on the market to compete with the Quest 3. The options are either old or ultra high end (and either not released yet or not stable yet).
That's all I use my quest 2 for. I immediately jump into virtual desktop and boom. The only way it could be more convenient is the new steam app where you press a button and you are in steam VR.
@@Kwstr42you could say the same about laptops too. I tried going on holiday with both and it was just terrible with both. I couldn't bear it, these mobile chips just don't have enough horsepower or they are even more prohibitively expensive than a PC.
I'm curious what exactly Matteo means by "PCVR is dead". Because, correct me if I'm wrong but won't triple A devs still make VR experiences for their big name PC games? Also, won't most Quest developed games still run better using a PCVR link cable?
Can you recommend a gpu for vr ready pc.
RTX 3060 and up will be good enough for sure
I agree with you, but I also think it may just be that they merge in the end. What I mean is like, look at the Vision Pro. It has been described as a Mac-book on your face and that is probably what future HMDs will end up doing(Provided the Vision Pro is not a flop).
Will you have the Samsung VR coming as well as the vision pro so things are going to be interesting for sure
When the free mod injector praydog comes out (God knows when), the pcvr will get hundreds of AAA titles over night, that will be the day pcvr comes back to the stage
Man I cant wait for asgards wrath 2 i dont care if it looks worse than the first for standalone it looks great (and yeah ive played the first)
Two days...yeah, I also can't wait to get into it!
What did you guys think of it? I’ve played twice and probably won’t play again
I would say that yes, mobile VR is probably the future. And there are good games out there.
But, from the perspective of a normal user who has "only" been in VR for about 3-4 years, and who just doesn't have time to play all day: there are soooo many really good old games on PCVR that I haven't gotten to yet. That's why I like it a little better right now. I have a long list of titles that I know to be great, and that I can work through. And most of them just are on PC right now.
You know how it is, it's all about the game library, and that's where PC is currently still king. Even if that is probably about to shift...
Good conversation 100 percent agreed, I have arizona sunshine 2 both on pc and quest 3, I finished it on quest 3 because of the convenience, and the graphics were not too far apart, I went back and forth and felt it was smoother on quest 3, the gap is closing
It's frustrating that people will look at this kind of comparison and say the gap is closing. What you're looking at is a game designed for mobile first and ported to PCVR. It doesn't represent what PCVR is capable of. The only gap that will be there is however much effort the developers put into running the textures at higher quality or enabling higher quality shadows or whatever. If the game was actually built out to the limits of both platforms, you would see much larger differences both in graphics and the scope of game play.
@@SargonDragon Todo evoluciona, hoy tenemos el snapdragon xr2 gen 2 pero el dia de mañana tendremos chips mejores y si, la brecha se va a seguir cerrando porque aunque pc tambien siga evolucionando, los chips móviles tienen un punto extra en cuanto al bajo consumo y la posibilidad de instalarlos directamente en los visores. Quizás no las quest 3, pero cuando salgan unas quest 5 o quest 6, ahí si no vas a lograr ver diferencias entre los graficos de pc y de standalone
thats like playing candy crush on PC and saying the browser gaming "gap is closing" to PC gaming lol,its so dumb when you can literally be inside cyberpunk 2077 in VR on PC if you got a 4090,thats what PC is capable of,render cyberpunk TWICE in VR,something like that is so far away from a mobile phone headset that the gap couldnt be further apart.
@@Diabolik1235 Te falta visión! La tecnología móvil va a seguir evolucionando o a los cascos stand alone les pondrán procesadores y gráficas de pc. Ya lo verás! El futuro vr es stand alone y los gráficos que va a mover van a ser igual de impresionantes que al conectarlos a una pc
The Quest 2 & Q3 are not killing PCVR in my opinion, they are complementing it. Wireless PCVR with virtual desktop is awesome. Visuals and audio is much clearer, and I still have the untethered experience.
I haven’t tried turning up the textures on the quest 3 with Sidequest yet, but I did notice sharper details when I turned on Snapdragon, super resolution in virtual desktop settings 👍🏼
Unfortunately the stats don't support that. Only a small percentage of quest owners ever attach it to a pc and pcvr hasn't been growing along side the boom in mobile vr
The new ear looks great man!
Robot ear confirmed
The reason I do PCVR is because the smaller, more curated audience. Less likely to be playing with a 9 year old on PC
PSVR is too limited for me, you are stuck with whatever games are released on it and there is no modding scene, I love the fact there is so much choice on PC and modding just makes so much sense to expand the VR library. If we could get the PSvr working on PC too then it would win.
Imagine if Xbox and PlayStation started making themselves compatible with Meta Quest and other headsets.
Very valid points, and I agree with you
Since buying the quest 3 i haven't bought a single game that i thought to be truly worth it until aw2 drops ofc
Does the universal mod injector actually do VR 6dof or is it just a glorified widescreen with 3dof?
Yeah, it's proper 6DOF VR.
@@Flat2VR oooooh, interesting. I'll have to get myself a 4090 so I can use it for Ark: Survival Ascended and get my 15fps
@@TornadoeJoe....id get a 4080.....4090s are outrageous because china is buying them all up for AI
@@TornadoeJoe 🤣
If I buy a game in the pc meta store for example walking dead retribution, would I also get it for standalone vr?
Because I want the good graphics of the pcvr but also want the game for stand alone, sorry for being confusing 😅
it depends on the games. Some games are crossbuy meaning you get the rift pc version and standalone version.
Good points thanks for sharing
Totally agree with your thoughts on this stuff, man. Great video, and I hope you recover quickly from the surgery.
Funny thing is, I've been waiting to buy a PSVR 2 (until Sony says something about their plans to support it), and the more I wait the more I've been thinking I should just get PC VR instead. As someone who's only had PSVR 1, the idea of playing a title like Skyrim with mods is very appealing to me, as is the UEVR injector mod, and mods for existing PC VR games like Half Life Alyx or Hellsplit Arena. I can put up with a fair amount of jank, after all, I still regularly use a PSVR 1 😉. Yes I'd be missing out on the big PSVR 2 exclusives, but I'm not too convinced there'll be all that many of them. And I could always pick up a PSVR 2 for cheap eventually (they're already almost half-off on ebay).
As for the Quest 3, it looks like impressive hardware but I refuse to support Meta in anything or use any of their products. Just a personal stance. I'm not gonna try to convince anyone else that I'm right and they're wrong for supporting them. I can respect the investment they're putting into VR, but I wish it were being done by a less shady company.
A lot of people just don't remember how slow PCVR was around mid 2018 to 2019, before the Quest came out. Two years into PCVR it was clear that there isn't enough money to be made on PCVR, so the big bois kinda just left.. Then the Quest1 came out and many of the devs started making VR games for that, they found success and the VR scene blossomed again.
There's no timeline where PCVR would be thriving today if the Quest series never came out. PCVR was basically abandoned almost immediately. By 2018 I think there was like 1.5 million VR headsets out there... Most of them just being unused OR used by people who play simulators exclusively, and the largest portion of avid PCVR fanatics, the VR Chat addicts. God bless their weird souls.
The cost, the jank, the cable, the size of the headsets back then.. It just wasn't going to happen. And these days when people definitely don't have buckets and buckets of cash there is NO CHANCE for PCVR to become a significant player in the VR scene.. For the unreal injector, for example, you're going to need a monstrous PC to run the new stuff. It's just way too expensive to stay on that cutting edge for any large playerbase to emerge.
I stopped huffing the copium all the way back in 2018ish. It's been extremely obvious for a very long time that this wasn't going to be where VR took off. A 4090 and a high end headset isn't the NES of VR.. It's the Neo Geo. The thing that that one kids uncle had... Remember that? Exactly.
Great topic and discussion. I might have missed it, but are you a meta ambassador now?
Sure, standalone using mobile phone based processors is significantly cheaper than PCVR and has less friction in terms of setup and compatibility. As you said, being cheap means it has the largest install base, and so it has the most potential for developers to actually turn a profit. Is there really any debate there?
I think the strong preference for PCVR (myself included, I mostly use my Quest 2 for PCVR) is just that people are aware that standalone is not only a downgrade in scape and fidelity due to hardware limitations, but the demographics shift and we see titles move towards more casual gaming.
While AAA standalone titles are obviously possible, as seen with Asgards Wrath II, the vast majority of standalone titles are closer to the casual nature of their mobile gaming counterparts and also seem more inclined to target a similar demographic to what is usually seen with mobile devices.
The difference between PCVR, PS2VR and standalone mirrors the way that consoles are less likely to have hardcore sims, strategy games and MMOs, while mobile gaming is usually aimed at even shorter and more casual 10-15 minute play sessions with simple mechanics, free installs and as many microtransactions as possible, and there's a lot more content aimed at an extremely young audience.
From Meta's own stated intentions, their projection for the real benefit of standalone certainly isn't better games. It's the potential for a "VR/MR Walkman", with mobile spatial computing, content consumption, communication and Meta's vision of combining the physical and digital worlds. Even there though the mobile processor is a severe limitation, hence Apple's debut product using laptop class processing.
Yeah. The same could be said to argue that developers just shouldn't make PC or console games anymore because you can make shovelware phone games that get a lot more money from micro transactions and yet they don't. The solution isn't to make worse games, it's to make PCVR games even better in such a way that they get people to return.
@@vladioanalexandru4222 Its hard to return somewhere you have never been in the first place. How many people have the money to spend on a VR ready PC (3070 minimum) and then spend around 600 for an entry level VR set? For something they may not even physically be able to take (vertigo)? Why make VR games for such a small audience when you can make normal games and earn much more money? The developers go where the market is and without big sponsorships from Sony or Valve, the Meta Quest is simply the most accessible platform with the highest userbase.
Does anyone else remember that meta said something like "we haven't completely given up on pcvr" some time ago. I think it was back in January (23) or around there. They were hinting at something. Does anyone know what they meant or what happened with that? 🤔
That may have been a fever dream
I think you overlooked something! :/
1) Mobile VR, processed directly in the HMD, will never come close to matching the computing power of PCs and consoles. This is because the technology in both sectors evolves at nearly the same rate. Therefore, we will face a 10-15 year gap in computer graphics until effective VR Cloud rendering comes to mobile VR.
2) VR Cloud rendering will come to mobile VR HMDs! Without it, mobile VR gaming won't become mainstream. Why?
a) The "visual gap" between mobile VR and flat-screen PC/console games is and will remain for at least the next 20 years, too significant for the general public.
b) It's impractical to install a heavy, hot, loud, and battery-draining GPU in a mobile HMD. Mobile devices that offload intensive 3D rendering to the cloud can be small, affordable, lightweight, attractive, have long battery life, and still deliver modern AAA graphics like PCs and consoles.
It's only a matter of time before the internet becomes fast enough for most people. I have already 600Mb/s in Austria.
When this happens, PCVR will have a comeback, as all VR platforms (mobile, console, PC) will run nearly identical versions of AAA games/graphics.
In my opinion, Meta made a significant error by shifting too quickly to mobile VR. If they had continued focusing on PC until around ~2027 (when VR Cloud rendering is fully functional) and invested just a fraction of their already spent $40 billion!!!!!! in AAA PCVR titles and affordable PCVR HMDs, we could have had already around 40+ AAA titles by now, a sizable PCVR community, big companies would start to implement VR Modes in their AAA flate games and Meta could have seamlessly transferred all these AAA games to their mobile platform with Cloud rendering services.
Cloud rendering will eventually arrive on the Q5, but we'll have to wait another four years for a significant influx of AAA games and the resurgence of AAA VR gaming. Meta's early transition to mobile VR essentially delayed the advancement of AAA VR gaming by about seven years.
I don't agree with most of this but its too much to go over in YT comments
@@Gamingwithmatteo311
So you really think we still have an:
1)very expensive
2)hot
3)loud
4)very battery hungry
GPU, that makes HMD unnessary:
4) expansive
5) by far not as powerful
6) and very big
...in ~10 years for all the 3D rendering and KI stuff directly in your face??? :D
Did your read all that adributes that come with it? ...only two of them will be enought that this will not happening :D
I can guarantee you that it will be totally normal that our small devices (who need a lot of computing power) in the future process the most very computing intensive 3D/KI stuff in the cloud :D ...that's the way ;-)
I have no worries that PCVR will continue, the indie and mod scene will keep it alive. My biggest concern with standalone VR is battery life. I played both Boneworks and Alyx in a single-day run and I could never get that kind of constant immersion in a standalone because after two hours it always tells me to charge it.
Get an external battery pack. BoboVR makes some great options. They make hot swappable battery packs, effectively making the battery life infinite.
I have played a lot of pc vr and a lot of quest and standalone games and stand alone is just getting better and better. And now we have psvr2 as well I think the future for vr in general is looking awesome.
I have Arizona Sunshine on both PCVR and Quest 3. Yes, the graphics on the PC are better, but that's it. I'm a lazy, lazy man and the Quest just runs. It's the same game on both. I can no longer be bothered to tinker to get the best quality. I play the Quest version of AS2 because once you're immersed in gameplay, you don't care about textures or filters.
ugh sadly I agree lol
Hybrid Games is the path forward for VR. The best games on the PSVR 2 - GT 7, RE 4 and RE 8 are among the top titles on PSVR 2. If Sony would embrace Hybrid versions of their AAA First Party Games it would be the most cost efficient way to bring AAA to the masses.
There is no money in hybrid for pcvr. Generally additional funding for this comes from companies like Sony or meta because it's in their best interest. That's not the case for pcvr
Most interesting games are released on mobile, PSVR and PCVR anyway. As long as there is a PC version, I’ll buy that one. If not, Quest 3 version it is.
ther lack of pcvr games turned me to simracing and flight sim aha , now im working on my pilot liscence aha
We'll get there. You'll have to be our "VR mentor" and hold our hands into the future. We will eventually grow up.
Pcvr is what i bought to stream i want mixed really streaming. Almost got all my stuff but if pcvr dies how the hell can i stream mixed reality if i would only use a quest standalone with obs.
what zombie game is that 5:08?
Saints and sinners
@@Gamingwithmatteo311 ok, thanks!
I see PCVR sticking around with the Sim community, but those aren't made exclusively for VR. Great video!
The problem with VR is that the whole point of it is immersion, so it is extrmely reliant on graphics quality. VR requires more processing power than 2d gaming for similar sized game worlds and mobil hardware will always be very behind in grunt VS PC hardware.
Immersion and graphics aren’t as related as you state here. Beat Saber is incredibly immersive and runs on a toaster.
My thing for immersion is less graphics and more freedom. An incredibly stylized game can get me twice as invested than a hyper realistic game. As someone who owns both pcvr (valve index)and quest 3 I find my index collecting dust due to the freedom of movement of the quest. To be able to have a huge play space wherever and whenever I want, and not have to worry about mounted trackers I feel far more immersion. And then with steam link it’s even better. I just don’t see myself ever going back to pcvr.
I also think as ARM processors get more powerful and get windows/driver support, this will further solidify mobile vr. Maybe we will eventually be able to run PCVR/PC games via translation layer like on rosetta for Macs.
No reason for PCVR, you say, but I got 4 Vive trackers and early on got used to titles utilizing them. these ended up being deprecated too early, but they were and still are the best way to play games like Blade And Sorcery and Island 359 as well as games like Dance Dash and the FBT mods for Beat Saber. No alternative exists yet for Meta.
I would personally argue meta was just as helpful to the vr scene as it was detrimental. The large install base is great and vr would probably be stagnant right now if it weren’t for the quest series but at the same time I feel like the scene is being held back by the quest smaller processing power. Something else which is nobody’s fault really but psvr2 tends to get quest ports instead of pcvr ports despite being able to run pcvr games at good quality,
I just got a quest 3 and am looking to upgrade my PC to play iRacing. I’ve been going back and forth about whether to go for a 4080 or a 4090 (from my original and current 970). I think this video just made my decision for me. I’ll be going with the 4080 and save my cash. If some big PCVR titles drop in a few years, I can upgrade. I hope that eventually enough traditional gamers get VR headsets that it becomes a “normal” part of a gamers kit. That’s going to take a lot of adopters, which means a lot of people falling in love with stand-alone headsets, before we see that reality. Very convincing points and great video. Thx.
Glad to help. 4080 will definitely be enough
If you're looking at VR in the same way that you look at the console Wars, this take makes more sense. If you look at it from a perspective of who's doing the most for vr, it is definitely meta, but the state seems to ignore looking at VR as its own technology instead of just how it is used for gaming. I will agree, that pcvr has stagnated, but to say it's now the past is a weird take, it assumes that everyone except for Mehta has given up on VR and that isn't necessarily true. Not to mention that you can use the quest 3 to officially play pcvr games, to me it's clear that meta is just paving the way to make this technology easier to access, and I think with the release of Apple's Vision Pro or what have you it's going to cause an explosion of actual things we do on the day-to-day with VR
PCvr will always be around but will never be the most popular, especially with PCvr dev-ing being so much easier
I've been using my Rift S for years now. Paired with a 4070ti, the graphics are incredible. That being said, I still bought a Quest 3, and the overall ease of use and experience has been well worth the money. Asgards Wrath 2 is so incredibly immersive that the last thing I'm thinking about is polygon count. People seem to pick one side or the other, but why not both? In all reality, stand-alone VR is likely the new norm and will propel this industry into the mainstream. Love all VR!
Sorry Matteo
The gap isn't closing at all concerning concerning the graphics fidelity of PCVR2/PSVR2, just compare the graphics of Asgard Wrath2 (which is an absolutely stunning game) and Resident Evil 4 Remake of the PSVR2, the difference is still very huge (look at the textures of AW2, they are still very low quality !).
That's still the quest 2 version of the game. A more accurate comparison would be Arizona sunshine 2 but even that is still on quest 2 without quest 3 enhancements
@@Gamingwithmatteo311
Play once Microsoft Flight Simulator with a Quest3 (the framerate would be in the range of 1-3fps or even less), then we we are talking again.
@@Anakin-dl6eb ok cool it does that to plenty of the low end pcs also
I just read on the discord server of Sanzaru Games that Asgard Wrath 2 is not even optimized for the Quest 3 !
The graphics look already beautiful even if they don't use all the power of the XR2 Gen2.
They say they are still polishing the game until the launch tomorrow and will have a break.
After the break they will consider to work on an upgraded version of Asgard for the Q3 !
if little old vertigo games can bother with a pcvr port for Arizona Sunshine 2, so can the behemoth that is Meta -but I do understand they don't give a shit so it is what it is. Like Trent Reznor once said, "and all we ever were, just zeroes and ones"
It's not in their interests to develop for pcvr and it's just not cost effect for a game like asgard. AZ 2 is designed to be multi plat
@@Gamingwithmatteo311 of course it's only logical -if only there was a quick way to just turn up the visuals for a quick direct port
unfortunately there really isn't. You need higher resolution textures, performance testing of a range of different hard, implementation of new effects, etc@@jakkudemoff3043
The claim that it would be way too hard to port Asgard's Wrath 2 to PCVR to be worthwhile doesn't hold much water. This game is not a Quest exclusive for technical reasons. It's exclusive to Meta's platform for business competition reasons.
@SargonDragon I already explained why it holds water. It's against metas business model and it's a ton of work for very little potential profit.
I'd like to see something that Upload VR has brought up, the idea of the battery/processing puck that attaches to a belt. Sort of the Apple Vision Pro meets Magic Leap approach. All the benefits of standalone, better heat distribution, much better weight and leaves the opportunity for modular upgrades.
You could have the form factor/weight of a Bigscreen Beyond with the convenience of a Quest product.
I mean, if it can run on mobile quest…you’d think it could run at least those specs on PC. Just to give options.
I would LOVE to believe that you're wrong about PCVR's future, since, as I've said elsewhere, I will often buy a good/okay VR game with terrific graphics, versus an amazing VR game with sh*t graphics--but truthfully, I have to agree.
Basically, unless PC makers find a way to create PCs with amazing graphics that are also small and light enough to literally wear on one's body--a direction they certainly don't seem to be going in, if the latest model high-end graphics cards are anything to go by--the chances of PCVR growing beyond the level of being a niche within what is itself a niche of computer gaming (like it or not) are very poor.
I wish that wasn't the case, and I believe that PCVR computing is even now moving in that direction (if Apple has anythiny to say about it!), but I also think it will be awhile before it becomes any sort of "norm".
In the meantime, I feel like Standalone VR really is making some pretty great strides toward creating a form of gaming that will appeal to more and more players and get better and better, graphically speaking... but I do miss the clarity and details in PCVR that makes for games that do so much to increase immersion. I hate to admit it, but, for now, at least, Zuckerberg was right to focus on standalone VR.
Great--if painful, discussion--Matteo; as always, thanks!
Some great points but PCVR will continue to dominate for flight sims and racing sims.
Prediction, when wifi7 is as standard as wifi6 is today we'll see a shift from local processing hardware to cloud based processing. Headsets will all be just super lightweight optics. You heard it here first here in the comments 😆.
No you wont.....the problem with cloud gaming is the lag between the host processing and your display not your wifi network at home.....theyve failed every time with flatscreen cloud gaming vr would be worse because you notice the lag more
@@thebubba1 Hey man don't burst my bubble 😅 lol jk
Noo, I just bought a new Wifi 6 router, and then realized bottleneck is for almost all games is my old crappy pc, so bought a gaming pc, and to be able to play in better quality in my quest 3. alyx is fantastic, and others probably too, but I want more pcvr. Quest 3 might be fantastic, but not for all games, need time for devs to upgrade or some won't even do it. ;) You can see arizona sunshine 2 is for quest 2 for now, and they do quest 3 later only, I doubt they will do anything for arizona sunshine 1 though.
I don't get this idea that PSVR 2 isn't doing well compared to quest 2 and 3, it's been out in less than a year and released 4 triple A vr titles, more than both quest 2 and 3 combined. dominating the vr award show. People cite the Amazon sales number but just until recently in most places the PSVR 2 was only available for purchase directly through Sony so we had no way of gauging its sale unless if Sony provided it. Whereas the quest was available in major retailers, it doesn't make sense to compare them. I think once Sony reveals it to investors in the next conference is when we can have a better idea.
Absolutely, RE4 VR is incredible.
Saying more than the Quest 2 or the 3 combined is a moot point there are no exclusives for the three yet so it’s the same software. That’s not an a symmetrical comparison. And as far as AAA titles go that was before assassin‘s, Creed Nexus, and Asgard wrath 2. There’s really not an argument to be had when it comes to who selling the most headsets. That being said, PSVR 2 definitely has some great exclusives there’s no arguing that, but you also have the option of PCVR games with the quest
You Sony ponies really think the world revolves around PlayStation.
There's nothing on PSVR I want to play. Last thing I need is another RE4 game
@@W-C-F-o1kSame could be said for Quest. You're being what is called being "subjective"
Can't argue with what you are saying, I still use my original Quest headset regularly.
Yet I easily spend twice as much time and more using PCVR, sometimes with a dedicated headset and sometimes streaming.
My hope is that the overall growth in interest in XR tech will ignite more interest in PCVR?
I know not everyone is going to love it as much as I do but a percentage will love it enough to make the investment and so long as enough people are using the tech in some way then that percentage will become enough to sustain itself.
Mobile is obviously more convenient and it can still be heaps of fun but it is unlikely to ever truly match the PC for power or in relation to customizing content, which is really the hook for me. And yeh I know it takes a lot more work to optimize things well for all the various PC configurations but people who work for a living never produce the art that those who live for the work do.
That's the big problem with Meta and their monopoly.
It's not that they haven't done a great job in making VR accessible it's that they are stifling innovation forcing creators to fit where they think VR is headed, or where they are attempting to drive it? So long as they stay close enough to the public interest the market will grow and the money that brings in should spark new innovation. The artists will find way's to get their art out there for people to enjoy while those working the market will make average games that inspire no one but still feed the beast.
So we wait for next big wave.
Apple doesn't seem to have done it, Samsung's coming?
I would like to correct one thing quest three does look better than lowest settings on PCVR. It runs better and looks better than gaming on a GTX 970 which is the lowest recommended settings for a lot of these PCVR games. I would love for someone to actually show comparison of this because I feel like that gets misconstrued a lot, but as somebody who used to game on PCVR for years, I went through constantly upgrading my PC just for it to run at a stable 60 to 90 frames per second which is not guaranteed like it is on standalone and just because the game will work at 30 frames doesn’t mean it’s actually usable. And even when you do have a bit higher caliber, PC like a 3060 TI there is still no guarantee based on the game that you’re going to get a solid 90 frames.
I installed the meta desktop app recently and Jesus what are they doing even downloading the app and installing it at a snails pace like they have 1 old server sending info
Yeah that's a problem for everyone. It's pathetic.
This is why psvr 2 is so important. The future is Hybrid games. Without it we will never ever get games on the same level as flat games. I think the 6 amazing truly AAA games on psvr2 is worth it alone. We got a flat game of the year nominee. Literally resident evil 4 remake was up for game of the year flat and we have it in VR ! You can’t get any more AAA than that. We must get games to be hybrid and if we loose out on VR AF mechanics it’s worth it. Cuz right now playing RE4 In vr is the most amazing vr experience I have ever had
What is the problem with AAA flat game being ported on psvr2 (hybrid games). In my opinion RE8, RE4 and GT7 are the best experience
For me personally, some of those experiences aren't fully immersive. Can't interact with objects around you, button presses to open doors, pulling you out of 1st person for small actions. Things like that don't make them a must play for me. Again, that's just my opinion though and I hope whoever plays those does enjoy them.
Saying mobile VR will completely replace / outmode / kill off PCVR to me sounds similar to thinking consoles do the same to general PC gaming. Yet PC gaming still has a significant audience, despite consoles being far more popular, just like how PCVR still has its niche despite Mobile / Quest VR being the game console of the VR world. PCVR is a smaller niche within a small niche (VR in general), but it's not irrelevant.
Also, I don't know where you got such a low number for PCVR users. Maybe you're just counting aggregate sales numbers for PC-exclusive headsets? If so, that's exclusionary, because half of Steam VR use is done via mobile VR Quest (and some Pico) headsets, so you gotta factor those in as potential PCVR users.
This is why I got the Quest 3 - we can always mod our flat screen games to PCVR. I don't need 6DOF to enjoy Cyberpunk 2077. It's still better in keyboard + mouse VR than flat. Gotta have a 4090 tho
better gaming experience is subjective too, not all of us care about realistic graphics, and even the ones who do, dont seem to care too much if the game is fun, look at minecraft. the quest 3 has good enough graphics and handles them better than my older gaming laptop does, plus standalone is easier to work with. the reason i got quest 3 is because i can use it standalone and PCVR so i can play games through steam without them being locked to 1 environment, plus some games are cheaper in pcvr, but needing to run apps on top of apps for pcvr vs opening the app directly is a whole different beast in itself and sometimes i dont mind paying a premium for the convenience
You didn't mention the benefits of Virtual desktop, and the fact the Quest does not need room sensors. I play VR games on my Quest.
Arizona Sunshine 2 is Goat then. Never even considered buying it on quest standalone. Major props to those devs
im about to get it, i dont like zombies but i will support
It's cool that Half Life Alyx is still so relevant in VR. I'd say it's like the 2nd best AAA VR title and potentially bumped to 3rd come Friday. It is by no means the only AAA VR title available right now though. Assassin's Creed Nexus was objectively a AAA title by your standards. Had at least an 8 figure budget based on simple math.
If Alyx is second, what is first?
@@EduPotato Gorilla tag for sure, must've cost 6 billion to make.
Jokes aside, I believe Nexus was on par with Alyx in terms of depth, budget, optimization. That game is incredibly impressive for being designed for the Quest 2.
@@TornadoeJoe asgards wrath 2 is gonna be a big contender too
@@Danteyyyyy Looking forward to it. It's a shame (not really 😅) that it will take me a year to beat it
give me what you're smoking lmao @@TornadoeJoe
Starting on Quest 2 and having a great time, then eventually purchasing half life alyx using Virtual Desktop blew my mind. I can see why PCVR OG's get upset. I just finsihed Lone Echo on the Quest 3 and i was just slack jawed the whole time. It will be interedting to see if the VR industry will travel the same path as flat screen gaming. Consoles brought gaming to the massess after PC did the grunt work, then PC caught up again. Hoping for the same in VR
PCVR and mobile VR are two different segments of the VR gaming industry. Just as PC gaming and smartphone gaming are two different segments of the flat gaming industry. And for exactly the same reasons. People have been claiming that PC is dead/dying/in the past/whatever for decades, and yet there has always remained a place for more powerful computing capabilities in a larger form factor.
Smartphones are cheaper, and there are more of them out there. According to the things you're saying in this video, flat PC gaming shouldn't exist by now either, and everyone should have moved onto the more popular platform. But mobile chipsets come with significant limitations not just in terms of graphics but also in scope of what's possible in game play. Smartphone games are necessarily different in nature than PC games due to these limitations. And that means they appeal more to a different audience.
The audience for PCVR isn't just stuck in its ways and unwilling to accept change as seems to be suggested in this video. Some portion has moved to mobile VR because that's what they really wanted in the first place. But the rest is looking for a different kind of gaming experience than you get on a smartphone. _It's a different segment of the market that wants a different experience than what mobile VR offers_.
To suggest that PCVR has no place in the future of the industry is simply ignoring an entire section of the market. Right now, that portion of the industry has slumped and stagnated. But it's not because the market for it doesn't exist, but rather because _the VR industry failed to cater to that market effectively_.
But it won't stay that way forever. That market segment has had money burning in its pockets for something worthwhile to buy for some time now. But what's been on offer has sucked. It's a market which is poised to rebound once the industry gets its act together and offers actually good products.
you say that but mobile is killing pcvr
@@D-money813 PCVR was dead before the Quest came out. Devs realized there wasn't any money in it around 2017, and from 2018 and forward the releases turned into indie stuff and shovelware.
No one got into PCVR.. And people on PCVR don't buy games, so devs just left.
People just want to blame Meta when in reality it was just a failure of a platform and the PCVR fanbase. The amount of hate a developer gets on Steam just puts them right off. These are humans making games, and the review sections on Steam are absolutely atrocious, and the people there give negative reviews like it's a way of life.
PCVR was launched during the era where crypto miners bought all the gpus.. It was SO EXPENSIVE to get into.. There was endless jank and bugs.. Just an unpleasant experience, people bounced off of PCVR pretty quick.
PCVR was doomed from day one. If there was any reason to develop for PC, you'd get games.. Because there are far more PCVR gamers now than there were before the Quest came out. the quest more than doubled the amount of PCVR users, and there are still like 17 million+++ headsets out there that have never been hooked up to a PC, cause no one cares. All the best games are still on Quest, and they just work every time.
Think about it like this: If the quest didn't come out, do you think the PCVR scene would have blossomed and become huge? It wouldn't. No. One. Bought. Games.... The PCVR scene is mostly people who do VRChat, they pay for VR Chat stuff and do not play games much at all. The other big group are sim racers, they play sim racing games.. Another big one are flight simmers.. they buy flight sim gear to play their favorite sim. The biggest group seems to be the guys who buy every PCVR headset they can afford just so they can platy Alyx again and go "oooh, aaaaaah, looks even better now!"
PCVR just didn't take off. It is what it is. Again, more PCVR headsets out there than ever due to the quests and the pico.. But no one really plays PCVR.. Because why would they? Janky as hell.. and the games are just quest ports which mostly run better on quest and there's no jank to deal with.
Doomed from the outset. Easily the most disappointing VR platform I've used. VTOL is great. That's about it.
@@JimmyNuisance ok, i hate you for this wall of text i have to spend time on
PCVR was dead before the Quest came out. Devs realized there wasn't any money in it around 2017, and from 2018 and forward the releases turned into indie stuff and shovelware.
I realy need to see something that show what the quest 3 is capable of.
Other than the lenses the quest 2 seems to be doing pretty good to me.
I agree that quest might be lot bigger than pcvr at the moment by things like steamlink is making it so much easier to play pc games wirelessly that this might change. I have started to buy pc versions of games which are available because of it. Quest is also by far the most used vr headset on steam so whines are definitely getting interesting. I hope valve introduces some cool wireless streaming shit with deckard.
🍷😎🍿 good show brutha 💯%👏🏿 standalone just more exciting to me, but eh', i am rocking that quest 3 with pass through, 1080p60 video recording, with half the meta store downloaded,
And i got that Asgard's Wrath 2 on standby, that's what's going on with standalone, what's up with PCVR?
..OH
I believe that this Asgard Wrath 2 game would be so much better on the PC and PSVR2.
‘’The Quest is like the Nintendo Switch of VR’’, it offers portable VR gaming but, with dumbed down versions. It is not powerful enough to offer high quality triple A games. But, then again Nintendo Switch Exclusive were some of the best games. So games made entirely for the Quest 3 will most likely succeed as well. But,
What we need is a SEGA of VR. A company that makes great games for every VR platform. Focused solely on making great games.
Note: These companies are all trying to compete for business making the good games exclusive to their platform. Which, makes me buy multiple VR headsets.
If I could play Gran Turismo 7, Horizon COTM, or Resident Evil 8 and 4 remake on my Quest 3 I wouldn’t even need this PSVR2 because, those fresnel lenses ruined it for me. This is the main reason I never picked up the Valve Index and continued playing PCVR with my Vive Pro and Cosmos Elite was because, I was able to swap those lenses out with some clear ones like on My Quest 3 and I had wireless adapters to give me the freedom to move around without having to worry about a cable. Now with Steam Link I am happy to use this Quest 3 as my PCVR headset. I don’t need another headset. I just need good games to play. Excited to try this Asgard wrath 2 for myself. It looks Awesome! I am happy so many companies are trying to get into this VR market it just goes to show you there is something special there. 😉👌😁👍
Imagine an alternate reality where pcvr never died where would it be today, and imagine if sony actually made their flagship games for vr. Now imagine mobile vr chips finally caught up to pc specs
Finally got your very own Meta mindcontrol slug eh? For the Dominion! 🙌👽
Lol.
My 2 cents is that VR isn't doing so well because games and software aren't smooth enough. Steam making an app for the quest to directly connect and meta adding a blinder effect when changing apps is a step forward in that direction. I myself would only make games on PCVR, because the "future" is making amazing games and I don't want to be shackled by an inferior mobile chipset. You see Vertigo 2 being made with grand success and only 1 creator. Maybe I'm foolish to think this, but I think that kind of success can happen again from any new creator.
I think I'm happy with NMS VR and playing around with Unity. Also Help Wanted 2 will be on steam tomorrow. That one will be on todo list.
Also many patreon project are on PCVR. Basically meta don't like adult games.
Wait, you think FNAF:HW2 is an adult game?
@@BadHostile no :)
But it seems that part of pcvr future seems to be on adult games that is blocked from meta.
I think Quest 3 is Meta’s PS3. We’re gonna see some beautiful games in the future. Asgard’s Wrath 2 is just the beginning.