Cheers for the video content! Excuse me for chiming in, I would love your opinion. Have you ever tried - Lammywalness Trendy Trade Guide (Have a quick look on google cant remember the place now)? It is a good exclusive product for learning how to recondition batteries at home minus the hard work. Ive heard some unbelievable things about it and my close friend Aubrey finally got astronomical results with it.
Great video and super helpful, thank you for this FFcossag! To monitor the discharge of the battery, I bought a OWON bluetooth digital multimeter for about £40. The data is transferred to an iOS or Android app that can then be exported as a csv file. That made a huge difference to optimise the battery
One of the joys of older battery technologies, they sometimes can be recovered quite well with brute force, unlike lithium technologies which tend to blow up in your face, literally... :P
Hello, for hybrid or nimh batteries to work for many years, they require passive and permanent balancing due to their low cell tension, they will not be the same. This is solved by connecting a shunt zener diode with its current limiting resistor. It balances all the cells at the same voltage. It is not perfect and a small percentage of capacity is lost, but it is better than a dead battery after 3 years. This method is highly effective, reliable and easy to integrate, achieving triple the useful life of a battery.
Agreed, and not very Honda-like, but on the other side of the coin, it makes the pack much simpler and easier to work on and less expensive to replace, if you are a DIY-er
Hi FFcossag, thanks for sharing and is useful. During charing/discharing have you encounter a situation that air was built up in the battery such that plastic cover was swelling? Seems it is not safe to put it back to the car?
Sorry for the comment, but I got Honda Fit 2010, I requested a report on how health the battery. There is aline that says IMA Battery Capacity 26%. It means my battery is charging only up 26%?
Hi how do you determined 10 volt is lowest it can go and while charging 14 or 15 volt is max it should go.. any logic behind minimum voltage per cell, if so can u pls advise for nimh
Can I put 2 or 3 cells in parallel and charge at 8 or 12 amps rather than 4 amps on just 1 cell? I realize its better to do 1 at a time but I was thinking at least for a couple of cycles this might save time.
Paralel would mean even current across all cells, however the cells differ from internal resistance IR to that would mean the lower IR cell will take the higher current
Approximately how long did it take you to charge each of the cell sticks? I understand that I need to have the thermocouple in place to determine the time period, but as a rough guide?
Hi FFcossag, thank you for the video. Really enjoy watching your projects. Can I know the name of the equipment you used to measure the battery parameters & live data. Does anyone else here know of similar equipment for a reasonable price? Thanks in advance.
@ FFcossag Very nice and interesting. Just bought a honda civic hybrid 2006 - the batteries are fine but I love getting down and dirty in this type of stuff. I would consider making a system that would do everything you said at the cell level, but taking the cell out. I would control that with an Arduino (discharge, temperature monitoring, charge, and even cell cooling - that is why I would take it out. etc). Some questions: 1. If I manage to keep the temperature per cell under 40 through cooling - what voltage is considered to be a full cell voltage? In your description, you said discharge when it reaches 40 degrees - which I will implement, but on the scenario in which I can keep them cool, what would be the cut off/full voltage on which charging should need to stop? 2. In these types of batteries, does it make a difference in the current that they are charged with? My point is that for example in a solar system, the deep cycle battery can be "brought" to life by charging it and discharging it, but the charge part would need to be at very low amperage. The lower the better, it will not heat up the battery and would restore part of it (having in mind that most people would consider it dead). So coming back - is there any drawback (other than the longer charging time) of charging the cell at 0.5 amps vs your 3 to 5 amp recommendation? My end goal is to make an Arduino driven device in which I would just plug the cell and it will be fully automatic - all the steps, conditions, monitoring temp and measuring time between charge/discharge, and after a time (day of two) have a higher capacity cell with a log letting me know of all the parameter/phases through which the battery went. Thanks
Hey Angel, I´m interested in making the same as you, I already have a charger, maybe and I have some insights that may can help you out. Text me to my whatsapp + 502 48191195
I checked all my cells and theyre all around 14, i connect my charger set to 18v at 5 amps and then the cells are showing nothing? I unplug and they start to trickle back up but why would the charger deplete power?
Sir charging and discharging of my honda civic hybrid IMA 1.3 GEN 2 with individual battery sticks can it affect on battery....because my car is not used full of assist while i am driving in battery mode under 45 speed it supports me only 75%....not any code on dash everything is in perfect plzzzz suggest me sir
i had taken a scan tool to my 2007 honda civic and I seen it had some hybrid battery pack deterioration, the IMA light would only turn on after long trips and not so long after it started to take a second for it to actually crank on. fast forward I let it sit for about 5 days while in vacation, I came back and the IMA light and battery light stayed on. Now it doesn't turn on at all... In your opinion how many cells do you think are bad for it to not even want to start anymore?
i was able to get it jumpstarted but it basically is undrivable because i can't pull it out of park and can't turn the steering wheel, if anyone has any ideas on what i can do to help i'd appreciate it
(Answer please) I took civic hybrid 2007 for test for few days (wanna buy it). All cells were around 15v when car is in idle (using diagnostic tool). They go around 17v each cell fully charged indrive and under hard load they drop to 13v (4-5second) and then IMA stops. Under long uphill. IMA ERROR sign comes up. No more assistance for random time. Is it possibel that battery has issues (fast discharge) or might be something else(lose or coroded connector) Average fuel consumption is 8l/100km I got fair deal to buy it and its in perfect condition (120k kms) besides battery.
Hi Ffcossag, I have seen vids of people using an imax b6 charger to charge the modules, it has feature to charge Upto 20 volts and also discharge. I know you are using a thermocouple to measure the point of full charge, with the imax b6, I would have to set it to a particular volt to charge to, would this be 18 volt as there are 12 of 1.5 volt cells in each module?
2008 Civic Hybrid, JDM, right handle. I see 'Insulation resistance of high voltage circuit' 400.00 kOhm, is this like the normal resistance? Wonder if you know of any such normal range resistance values. It has 11 IMA battery modules with 16.20V except for #5 module which fluctuates 16.10~16.20V. Usable capacity 29.00%, SOC 66.00%.
@@FFcossag I see. So, then I should have like 0 Ohm for 'Insulation resistance of high voltage circuit' instead of 400 Ohm? ".. connection to metal case of the car somewhere" meaning like a shorted connection?
You want there to be no connection between the HV system and the car chassis, you probably have water ingress or something like that causing conduction where there should be none.
I have a question about the electronic components, 13 of them, on the junction board. What are they? They have 2 leads and are dark brown in color. One lead is soldered to a buss bar. The other to a wire in the orange harness.
They are 'sense' resistors. They are there for safety - a small current can pass fine for measurement, but they will reduce the severity of a short circuit in the orange harness to a fraction of an amp
Silly question, If I intentionally Keep my Headlight on and let hybrid / auxiliary battery dry And then jump start . WILL THAT help my Hybrid ? (Currently it working around. 25%)
No, there's no way around running the cells hot, since you are required to overcharge up to 11 out of the 12 cells in the string. A pulse charger that doesn't run the cells hot, would just be trading temperature for time.
What kind of pulse charger are you referring to? Because normal pulse chargers that you can buy, just pulse the right charging voltage on and off, while the Re-EMF charger is basically a Joule Thief circuit between the PSU and the battery, therefore it pulses into the battery a) very quickly (in the 10s or 100s of kHz range, AFAIR), and b) with a much higher voltage - whatever the back-EMF spike from the circuit's coil gives you, it could be as much as 10 times the cell voltage, but only for these short pulses, so it pushes a lot of energy into the cell nonetheless. I'd say it's worth trying (but of course, you'd need the right dimensions for the circuit, meaning not only the PSU voltage and power, but also an appropriate coil and so on). From what I've seen, especially dead NiMH cells could be brought back to their design capacity with such a thing very well (better than many other cell chemnistries).
That's what I mean by pulse charger. They essentially do a lot of tiny, really high current charge cycles at a very low average current, in order to prevent overheating or gassing. The problem with using circuits like those for this task, is that you need to push several Ah into the low cells, and doing that with a 10-100 mA average pulse charger takes forever. I'm sure it works, it's just slow.
@@xxxfffxxx55 I haven't myself, but There are other German youtubers who do all kind of stuff with the Re-EMF charger (i.e. Segelohrenbob). Others maybe, too. The original design came from René, it's basically an adapted "Joule Thief" circuit (you'll find that on on BigClive's channel).
Hi FFcossag, thank you for the video, it has great information. I wanted to ask you if one can do this battery repair on the battery pack of an insight 2gen (2010). Pretty much all the videos that I saw online are for the first generation. Thanks
I just use a big variable power supply for this. It's home made, so there's no model. With 6 and 8 V across the stick pairs, I suspect your battery might be completely toast :(
Im really supprised that there was no clever balancing, it seems very daft :-(. No way to mod a bcm for use? Would the old dirty d.c charging help any?, i never looked close into the method though.
You could make some fancy controller to keep the battery happy, but given the age and low cost of thee batteries, as well as their seemingly good life span despite their poor implementation, I'd wager it's not really necessary.
Likely true, but if it was your car i could see your interest peak to improve the system. You have the skill to modify electronics, i think your evil side takes over sometimes he he Just joking :-D.
@@FFcossag Would a BMS have cost them much more tho considering the price that car would have been new! I mean yes someone such as yourself who knows what they are doing can fix it but thats not post people, perfectly good packs ( or even whole cars ) will get scrapped and that goes against the whole idea of trying to reduce waste by having a hybrid car.
I removed the battery pack, did a deep discharge and grid charger recharge, but during the rebuild I had one of the temp sensor wires accidentally arc over the end of the battery. The battery was fine, but after putting it all back in the car I'm getting P1554/6/8 Battery Module Temp Sensor code. Any thoughts on how to fix this?
I accidentally cut one a cpl days ago also 🤦🏽♂️ luckily I have to get 4 new sticks so the old ones had them still on. If you didn’t fox lmk I’ll send ya one.
4 Ah? for old stuff ready to give up the ghost!! that is negligible compared to today's Lifepo4; i am getting 8 lifepo4 cells of 3.2 volts and 240 Ah EACH, (5 kg each), all 8 for 600 euros; that's 600/(3.2 x 240 x 8), or 100 euro per Kwh.
![62kWh isolation problem [part 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ug9YdxXqkJ4/mqdefault.jpg)
It never ceases to amaze me, the stuff you come across in skips...
Cheers for the video content! Excuse me for chiming in, I would love your opinion. Have you ever tried - Lammywalness Trendy Trade Guide (Have a quick look on google cant remember the place now)? It is a good exclusive product for learning how to recondition batteries at home minus the hard work. Ive heard some unbelievable things about it and my close friend Aubrey finally got astronomical results with it.
Great video and super helpful, thank you for this FFcossag!
To monitor the discharge of the battery, I bought a OWON bluetooth digital multimeter for about £40. The data is transferred to an iOS or Android app that can then be exported as a csv file. That made a huge difference to optimise the battery
One of the joys of older battery technologies, they sometimes can be recovered quite well with brute force, unlike lithium technologies which tend to blow up in your face, literally... :P
kinda disappointed the solution didn't involve an LS-swap procedure
Hello, for hybrid or nimh batteries to work for many years, they require passive and permanent balancing due to their low cell tension, they will not be the same. This is solved by connecting a shunt zener diode with its current limiting resistor. It balances all the cells at the same voltage. It is not perfect and a small percentage of capacity is lost, but it is better than a dead battery after 3 years. This method is highly effective, reliable and easy to integrate, achieving triple the useful life of a battery.
Couldbyou define/link to which zener diode you are mentioning? Did you midnyour own pack doing this? Regards
No balanced charge system in a massive pack in a car ..... what a fantastic idea.
Agreed, and not very Honda-like, but on the other side of the coin, it makes the pack much simpler and easier to work on and less expensive to replace, if you are a DIY-er
Hi FFcossag, thanks for sharing and is useful. During charing/discharing have you encounter a situation that air was built up in the battery such that plastic cover was swelling? Seems it is not safe to put it back to the car?
I haven't seen that. It sounds like a thermal issue, you need to troubleshoot further.
Sorry for the comment, but I got Honda Fit 2010, I requested a report on how health the battery. There is aline that says IMA Battery Capacity 26%. It means my battery is charging only up 26%?
Hi how do you determined 10 volt is lowest it can go and while charging 14 or 15 volt is max it should go.. any logic behind minimum voltage per cell, if so can u pls advise for nimh
Will you be able to change/fix my battery ? My IMA battery warning sign came up and I am not confident to do it by myself.
Where are you located
Can I put 2 or 3 cells in parallel and charge at 8 or 12 amps rather than 4 amps on just 1 cell? I realize its better to do 1 at a time but I was thinking at least for a couple of cycles this might save time.
Paralel would mean even current across all cells, however the cells differ from internal resistance IR to that would mean the lower IR cell will take the higher current
Where are you based? Can I bring my car to you to check as I have ima problems. Fuel consumption is low also
Is this procedure the same essentially as buying a grid charger (they have them on eBay for $200) and then using that? Thanks
Grid charger just flood charge the cells. Idk if they can be use to discharge them but I think you can you a light bulb to discharge them
Approximately how long did it take you to charge each of the cell sticks? I understand that I need to have the thermocouple in place to determine the time period, but as a rough guide?
That depends on your current limit. You really have to go by cell temperature.
Hi FFcossag, thank you for the video. Really enjoy watching your projects. Can I know the name of the equipment you used to measure the battery parameters & live data. Does anyone else here know of similar equipment for a reasonable price? Thanks in advance.
It's DIY and it can't be bought anywhere. Sorry.
thank you very much. this has helped me greatly charging my own hybrid battery.
What software and hardware did you use for creating the graphs?
@
FFcossag Very nice and interesting. Just bought a honda civic hybrid 2006 - the batteries are fine but I love getting down and dirty in this type of stuff. I would consider making a system that would do everything you said at the cell level, but taking the cell out. I would control that with an Arduino (discharge, temperature monitoring, charge, and even cell cooling - that is why I would take it out. etc). Some questions:
1. If I manage to keep the temperature per cell under 40 through cooling - what voltage is considered to be a full cell voltage? In your description, you said discharge when it reaches 40 degrees - which I will implement, but on the scenario in which I can keep them cool, what would be the cut off/full voltage on which charging should need to stop?
2. In these types of batteries, does it make a difference in the current that they are charged with? My point is that for example in a solar system, the deep cycle battery can be "brought" to life by charging it and discharging it, but the charge part would need to be at very low amperage. The lower the better, it will not heat up the battery and would restore part of it (having in mind that most people would consider it dead). So coming back - is there any drawback (other than the longer charging time) of charging the cell at 0.5 amps vs your 3 to 5 amp recommendation?
My end goal is to make an Arduino driven device in which I would just plug the cell and it will be fully automatic - all the steps, conditions, monitoring temp and measuring time between charge/discharge, and after a time (day of two) have a higher capacity cell with a log letting me know of all the parameter/phases through which the battery went.
Thanks
Hey Angel, I´m interested in making the same as you, I already have a charger, maybe and I have some insights that may can help you out. Text me to my whatsapp + 502 48191195
I checked all my cells and theyre all around 14, i connect my charger set to 18v at 5 amps and then the cells are showing nothing? I unplug and they start to trickle back up but why would the charger deplete power?
Sir charging and discharging of my honda civic hybrid IMA 1.3 GEN 2 with individual battery sticks can it affect on battery....because my car is not used full of assist while i am driving in battery mode under 45 speed it supports me only 75%....not any code on dash everything is in perfect plzzzz suggest me sir
do you have to discharge and recharge each stick ? or is there a way of seeing which ones are bad?
You need to do each stick.
should i get a battery discharger? my battery charger is very helpful but still the symptoms come back.
i had taken a scan tool to my 2007 honda civic and I seen it had some hybrid battery pack deterioration, the IMA light would only turn on after long trips and not so long after it started to take a second for it to actually crank on. fast forward I let it sit for about 5 days while in vacation, I came back and the IMA light and battery light stayed on. Now it doesn't turn on at all... In your opinion how many cells do you think are bad for it to not even want to start anymore?
i was able to get it jumpstarted but it basically is undrivable because i can't pull it out of park and can't turn the steering wheel, if anyone has any ideas on what i can do to help i'd appreciate it
You need to charge the battery under the hood. 2 amp 12 volt charger will work
(Answer please)
I took civic hybrid 2007 for test for few days (wanna buy it).
All cells were around 15v when car is in idle (using diagnostic tool). They go around 17v each cell fully charged indrive and under hard load they drop to 13v (4-5second) and then IMA stops. Under long uphill. IMA ERROR sign comes up. No more assistance for random time.
Is it possibel that battery has issues (fast discharge) or might be something else(lose or coroded connector) Average fuel consumption is 8l/100km
I got fair deal to buy it and its in perfect condition (120k kms) besides battery.
The battery is likely to be bad due to its age.
Hi Ffcossag, I have seen vids of people using an imax b6 charger to charge the modules, it has feature to charge Upto 20 volts and also discharge. I know you are using a thermocouple to measure the point of full charge, with the imax b6, I would have to set it to a particular volt to charge to, would this be 18 volt as there are 12 of 1.5 volt cells in each module?
You NEED to monitor the temperature of the pack, because Ni-Cd batteries never stop drawing current.
Thank you, I will try to keep an eye on temp, 40 degrees celsius is the point of stopping the charge, right?
Something like that. Definitely not hotter.
seems like a lot of work. And equipment. I Cant do that myself. Where are you located?
Far away from you, I'm afraid.
2008 Civic Hybrid, JDM, right handle. I see 'Insulation resistance of high voltage circuit' 400.00 kOhm, is this like the normal resistance? Wonder if you know of any such normal range resistance values. It has 11 IMA battery modules with 16.20V except for #5 module which fluctuates 16.10~16.20V. Usable capacity 29.00%, SOC 66.00%.
Insulation resistance means that the HV system is making a connection to the metal case of the car somewhere.
@@FFcossag I see. So, then I should have like 0 Ohm for 'Insulation resistance of high voltage circuit' instead of 400 Ohm? ".. connection to metal case of the car somewhere" meaning like a shorted connection?
You want there to be no connection between the HV system and the car chassis, you probably have water ingress or something like that causing conduction where there should be none.
@@FFcossag Big thanks for your advice. Well noted. Will note you down in my business partner list.
what data logger are you using ?
A custom thing.
Hi, please tell me what charger discharged the battery?
It's a DIY one-off, you can't buy it - sorry.
I have a question about the electronic components, 13 of them, on the junction board. What are they? They have 2 leads and are dark brown in color. One lead is soldered to a buss bar. The other to a wire in the orange harness.
They are 'sense' resistors. They are there for safety - a small current can pass fine for measurement, but they will reduce the severity of a short circuit in the orange harness to a fraction of an amp
Is there anywhere in uk that would do this ?
Silly question, If I intentionally Keep my Headlight on and let hybrid / auxiliary battery dry And then jump start . WILL THAT help my Hybrid ? (Currently it working around. 25%)
The headlights probably run on the starter battery for the engine, so probably not
What’s the average ampere in this battery? Once is working
I wonder if charging them with a Re-EMF charger would do them even better? At least, the cells won't get hot while charging.
No, there's no way around running the cells hot, since you are required to overcharge up to 11 out of the 12 cells in the string. A pulse charger that doesn't run the cells hot, would just be trading temperature for time.
What kind of pulse charger are you referring to? Because normal pulse chargers that you can buy, just pulse the right charging voltage on and off, while the Re-EMF charger is basically a Joule Thief circuit between the PSU and the battery, therefore it pulses into the battery a) very quickly (in the 10s or 100s of kHz range, AFAIR), and b) with a much higher voltage - whatever the back-EMF spike from the circuit's coil gives you, it could be as much as 10 times the cell voltage, but only for these short pulses, so it pushes a lot of energy into the cell nonetheless. I'd say it's worth trying (but of course, you'd need the right dimensions for the circuit, meaning not only the PSU voltage and power, but also an appropriate coil and so on). From what I've seen, especially dead NiMH cells could be brought back to their design capacity with such a thing very well (better than many other cell chemnistries).
That's what I mean by pulse charger. They essentially do a lot of tiny, really high current charge cycles at a very low average current, in order to prevent overheating or gassing. The problem with using circuits like those for this task, is that you need to push several Ah into the low cells, and doing that with a 10-100 mA average pulse charger takes forever. I'm sure it works, it's just slow.
@@Seegalgalguntijak HEy very interesting point, did you already try to bring back to live a nimh cell?
@@xxxfffxxx55 I haven't myself, but There are other German youtubers who do all kind of stuff with the Re-EMF charger (i.e. Segelohrenbob). Others maybe, too. The original design came from René, it's basically an adapted "Joule Thief" circuit (you'll find that on on BigClive's channel).
The original Battery for the civic is 6.5A. I dont understand why the 5A charger is enough...
Hi FFcossag, thank you for the video, it has great information. I wanted to ask you if one can do this battery repair on the battery pack of an insight 2gen (2010). Pretty much all the videos that I saw online are for the first generation. Thanks
I've never worked on one of those.
I have one with cells that only have 6+ volts to 8+volts. And can you give me the model to your charger so may buy one? Thanks in advance.
I just use a big variable power supply for this. It's home made, so there's no model. With 6 and 8 V across the stick pairs, I suspect your battery might be completely toast :(
👍👍👍
Sir, can you please confirm:
What instruct IMA motor to sense that on what RPM & TORQUE motor should rotate (Contribute to Engine's Load)?
No clue.
Im really supprised that there was no clever balancing, it seems very daft :-(.
No way to mod a bcm for use?
Would the old dirty d.c charging help any?, i never looked close into the method though.
You could make some fancy controller to keep the battery happy, but given the age and low cost of thee batteries, as well as their seemingly good life span despite their poor implementation, I'd wager it's not really necessary.
Likely true, but if it was your car i could see your interest peak to improve the system.
You have the skill to modify electronics, i think your evil side takes over sometimes he he Just joking :-D.
Typical half-assed compliance car hybrid design.
@@FFcossag Would a BMS have cost them much more tho considering the price that car would have been new! I mean yes someone such as yourself who knows what they are doing can fix it but thats not post people, perfectly good packs ( or even whole cars ) will get scrapped and that goes against the whole idea of trying to reduce waste by having a hybrid car.
Honda should of course have implemented a BMS. It's just hard to retrofit economically.
I removed the battery pack, did a deep discharge and grid charger recharge, but during the rebuild I had one of the temp sensor wires accidentally arc over the end of the battery. The battery was fine, but after putting it all back in the car I'm getting P1554/6/8 Battery Module Temp Sensor code. Any thoughts on how to fix this?
I accidentally cut one a cpl days ago also 🤦🏽♂️ luckily I have to get 4 new sticks so the old ones had them still on. If you didn’t fox lmk I’ll send ya one.
😂 this is English to me and I am a 🇨🇳 😂 I will blow up my house if I try something like this
Unbelievable they are not at up to use Balanced charging!!! Big mistake, I wonder if other EV's are the same?
No, these old Hondas are quite alone in being made this way.
4 Ah? for old stuff ready to give up the ghost!!
that is negligible compared to today's Lifepo4;
i am getting 8 lifepo4 cells of 3.2 volts and 240 Ah EACH, (5 kg each), all 8 for 600 euros; that's 600/(3.2 x 240 x 8), or 100 euro per Kwh.
So u expect this to be a diy? Hmmm
Prius was more easier