$27/hr | Owning your Own Airplane | Cost of Owning | Flying Club
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- Опубліковано 14 гру 2024
- In this video we'll detail the costs of owning an older fabric airplane like an Aeronca Champ, J-3 Cub, or Taylorcraft. We'll also explore the differences in owning it outright, versus starting up a flying club with a few other people to share some of the fixed costs.
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Is the engine deposit just setting money aside for major overhaul?
Would be nice to see a video on hand propping an engine both solo & with a helper.
Yikes, that sounds like a liability. Lol
Just note that the FAA has pretty much set a precedent that it is against the FARs to hand prop solo, they always want a "qualified" person inside the aircraft to hold the brakes and work the throttle/mags.
I hand prop my J3 every time I fly. I have a set of chocks on a rope that I place in front of the main wheels. I can retrieve them safely once the plane is started. but, the J3 is unique for this because of the door design. I can hand prop it while behind the prop and have quick access to the throttle and mag switch.
Another fuel option is swifts ul 94 octane. Apparently its great in these older smaller planes.
After spending a few years in a 180HP Super Cub I bought an L-16A with a fresh C-85 engine and metal climb prop and am really struck at how good these old Champs are if they are kept light. They are pretty darn close to a PA-11 and you get used to the heavier ailerons than the Cub and completely spoiled by the roomy interior and view from the cockpit. Slipping them with the door off is a blast and with at least one 5 gallon wing tank they are more than capable of long day trips.
Very interesting. I cant wait to start saving up for my own plane.
Thanks! Good Luck, take your time in your search!
Could be cheaper when you're also an
A&P, can do your own heavier maintenance.
March 25, 2015 FROM AOPA WEBSITE.
There is no specific FAA regulation that applies to hand propping an airplane, either to prohibit it or to direct how it is to be done. It’s an action that can be accomplished safely. For many of us who operate airplanes without starters, it is commonplace and, of course, necessary in order to go flying.
The FAA contends that hand propping is a two-person operation and has expressed this view in the Airplane Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-3A) under the section titled “Hand propping.” Of course, this publication is not regulatory, but the NTSB was surely influenced by it in a 1983 legal decision. In that case, the FAA sought to suspend a pilot’s certificate for being careless or reckless when, while attempting to start a VariEze experimental aircraft, it “got away” and ran into a parked aircraft. At the initial hearing, the NTSB administrative law judge ruled in favor of the FAA and ordered a 40-day suspension. The pilot appealed the judge’s decision to the full board.
The pilot testified that he was having trouble starting the engine because it was flooded. He sought the assistance of a nonpilot companion who was instructed to reach inside the cockpit and pull the throttle back when the engine started (yes, the throttle was in the full open position). Well, the engine started, the companion failed to close the throttle and the airplane indeed “got away.” The board affirmed the administrative law judge’s finding that there had been a 91.10 (now 91.13) violation. The board maintained that, “The standard procedures set forth in the Federal Aviation Administration’s Flight Training Handbook provide that an engine should never be hand-propped unless a qualified individual is seated at the controls and the brake is set. In addition, the Handbook urges that chocks be placed in front of the main wheels and that if this is not possible, the airplane’s tail should be securely tied down.”
There have been at least two previously issued NTSB (full board) decisions and one subsequent decision that refer to these generally accepted procedures and precautions for hand propping. The precedent has been set. So, hand proppers beware; if you fail to follow proper precautions and the airplane gets away, the FAA might pursue action against you for being careless or reckless.
In 2006 I owned an single place Mooney Mite M-18L with a 65hp lycoming. And you stand to the right side AND BACK of the engine to prop it. when it starts, you just take a seat on the wing, check the oil press and temp and let it warm up, search youtube and you can see vids of the procedure. NOW THAT SAID, REMEMBER all of these aircraft have a spring on the carb incase of Thro cable FAILURE!!! THAT means it will go FULL if it breaks!!! This is to make sure that if it breaks in the air you can get back to an airport.. To be good at start up, make sure you tie down the tail!!! Because the brakes WILL NOT HOLD IT AT FULL THROTLE!!!
hey jon, always loved ur stuff, my question is, where can I get like a 747-400 template for I wanna build a sim and I don't know where to turn and im gonna get a sim for the Cessna too
Randy Rankin did you ever find the plans?
Do you need an STC to mix 100 LL and 90 ethanol free auto gas?
Great video breakdown owning or not to own, these are all great aircraft even moving up a bit towards the Cessna 150, another good airplane. All in all a great video keep em coming. ..
So I'm guessing it's next to Impossible to own a Boeing airplane or an Airbus a319?
Do you have this same type spreadsheet/analysis on a Cessna 150?
You can download the spreadsheet from www.fly8ma.com and it has the numbers for a c150, also a c150 video you can find on our channel page
FLY8MA.com Flight Training could you direct me towards that 150 spreadsheet? Thinking of starting a club here!
I love the Aeronca birds and would love to buy one soon! With that said, my only concern is USEFUL LOAD as a Light Sport Pilot. If you have, for example, a 1946 Champ, 65hp Connie, with a full fuel load, what would be left over for pilot and passenger? Both me and my wife are getting older and thicker at the same time and we live in New Mexico (high altitude - 4300' at our local airport). Not only worried about enough useful load left for us, but also the thinner air. Thanks for your videos! I subscribe and greatly enjoy them!
Looking to buy since my local area rentals are around $125-150, I’m thinking it will be much more economical to own to complete my PPL and Instrument ratings. Not seeing many affordable listings in the area for an affordable plane. Any ideas to track down planes in my local area. FYI I’m in northern Nevada. Thanks
Thanks. Very informative
Glad it helps! Fly Safe!
Can this plane be used for flight traning? or FAA wants planes with 100+ HP engines.
Would like to see the breakdown for a four seater.
I'll add it to the list!
Bought an Arrow to put in a club.. the club ended up sinking because the legal fees for waivers, 501c7, insurance, hangar, maintenance and everything else made it so ends didn't meet. On a better note I have an amazing Arrow :)
Sorry to hear it didn't work out. Setting up any type of nonprofit or not for profit can be tough. Hopefully we'll get a video put out here in the future that will detail how to setup a club and not go through all the attorney fees. Glad the Arrow is working out good though! Certainly sweet planes!
I'm a million dollars to spend how much will it cost me to get my piolets license. I figured why not I already have a C.D.L
2 Questions, 1) Is this suitable for a beginner ? 2) Is this Short take off and landing ? I bought a house with a grass runway about 1200' with tress on either side and a hangar
Yes and yes to both questions. I'm a CFI - I teach in Cubs, but I've been checked out in a Champ. The cub, the champ, and others can get out of 1200' feet with trees. Just depends on how loaded the plane is and the engine size. A 65 hp vs of any of those will just barely skim the trees fully loaded, so you're pushing it.
I know a guy who bought a tail dragger. Had a couple hours in it, then ground looped it, busted it up. Got it repaired, and decided that he was going to learn how to properly deal with taildraggers. Couple more hours, another ground loop. Repaired the plane, sold it, and never flew again.
Has a lot more to do with the pilot and instructor than the plane. I can show you tons of guys each with 15,000+ hours of tailwheel time, never ground looped. The notion that these planes are difficult to fly couldn't be further from the truth.
I flew a cub one time. Nice handling qualities. I skipped flying in it again not because of the tailwheel thing, but rather that you had to hand prop it every time.
That guy is a fool!
NO MATTER HOW MUCH OR LITTLE YOU PAY, FLYING IS A "PRICELESS EXPERIENCE".
what plane should I get in Australia for $10000 the cheapest to own an run
I am looking into buying a Cessna 150 or 152 for aircraft leaseback with a flight school. Do you have any information on lease backs ?
I really want a 150/152 aerobat but that probably isn't good for PVT training lol
C172Pilotdude perfect for training. When I owned a 172, I ask an old time FBO owner to explain leaseback to me. I will always remember what he said. “That’s when you pay me to wear out your airplane”.
I'm thinking to buy a 1965 C 172
I only have 40 hours under my belt
Great planes! Have fun and fly safe!
Would it cost much more to install an electric starter?
Jim A The starter will not work on the non electrical Champ. Many of the 85 HP Champs had electrical systems, including a starter. I wish my Champ had an 85 HP engine, but definitely do not want a starter. These airplanes hand prop so easy you might wonder who came up with the idea of putting the extra weight of a starter on these airplanes. They have a problem with useful load with a starter, generator, and battery. My 65HP Champ (7AC) has 380 lbs after full fuel. Most of the full electric Champs with 85 Hp (7DC) come in about 350 lbs with full fuel. 85 hp with no electric, that’s the ticket as far as I am concerned.
The negative of having electric is that you have to follow ADSB rules. Without electric, I can go to class D with a handheld radio and still get through and over the Mode C veil without a transponder
I just want to know where you can hire those mechanics at $45 per hour.
Most shops only pay their A and Ps between $15-28/hr. Poking around your local hangars you can usually find someone willing to freelance on the weekend for $30-50/hr
Gerald Geddings you dont want to go cheap on the mechanic.
I just passed my PPL and I’m tryna rent a piper warrior or low wings aircrafts anywhere in Georgia, I have no luck so far and I’m tryna surprise my dad for his birthday coming up
Somebody help
I rent a 172 for $110 wet. I m sure the school is making a profit out of it or the wouldn't be in business. if you really enjoy flying you're better buying.
$110 wet for a skyhawk is not bad for a flight school price, but you're right that it would be 30-40% cheaper owning assuming you flew about 100hrs a year
that isn't an excel spreadsheet.
"50nm cross country is doable"
Really? Here, 50nm is just barely the beginning of qualification for cross-county ---- it's a "follow your nose" trip to next door. Need triple digits to count as an XCTY ...
I flew my Champ from Charlotte, NC to Sparks, NV. Longest leg about 150 miles. With full fuel, my Champ could fly 3:15, I figure 3. I plane my longest legs at very close to 2 hrs. There are a few places out west where you are at the edge of you safe range between gas stops, with no alternate in range.
you cannot remove panels unless you are an amt
that is a violation and poor advice, safety isn’t worth saving a few dollars
Here’s a question: Renting a 172 at my local place is $92/hour, do you think that would be cheaper than buying a 172 for upwards of $100k for 70 hours of flight per year.
Close....basically if it's that cheap I'd probably rent unless there's really specific times you have to be able to fly it and not share!
FLY8MA.com Flight Training I mean, it would be close but owning gives you more freedom anyway.
Watching this in 2023 when the 150s are regularly being listed for over $45k/$50k and crying.
If you ran it 24/7 365 days a year it would cost $236,520
Maybe convert a 172 into a avgas fuel tanker to midair refuel it. lol
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