What new pilots need today is the ability to purchase a new airplane at a reasonable price. 50 years ago, a 1972 Cessna 172 could be had for approximately $15,000. That same $15,000 in 1972 would be about $108,000 today. You can't even TRIPPLE that number, to $324,000 and get a new 2022 172. In fact, depending on how you equip one, you can't even quadruple that same 1972 $15,000 buying power and get a new 172. It's no wonder the once thriving GA airports near me are now all but ghost towns. Who can afford almost half a million dollars for something you can't even take a family of 4 on a decent trip with, not to mention $8 plus for a gallon of gas???
It’s all the rules that surround certified parts and equipment used to make these parts. Not to mention the insurance these major manufacturers need to have. We can thank the government for the GA crisis. That’s why most are getting into kit aircraft. It’s a shame..
I think a good business might be a group ownership like they do with Condos in other countries for a vacation spot. You get a ride whenever capable of scheduling with an annual contribution. Yes you need a decent amount of people but a stable Uber concept would solve the cost issue.
I own a Cherokee 235 and it is the greatest thing ever. It has worked as a wonderful training airplane for me to finish my certificates and ratings in, but also as a family flier. Super forgiving and fun aircraft to fly.
Mike, My husband and I own a Dakota. It is a fantastic people mover. We just had a new panel installed with a JPI 930 and GFC 500 AP. Game changer for us. It's a very stable instrument platform when ice is not around.
I owned a 140 back in the 80's. Bought it for 20k. Great plane and IFR certified too! Did my AFR in it but the plane refused to stall with power on at 3000 ft. After several tries with full aft elevator and take-off power, the examiner had me do one power off, and called it a day.
Flew my 1969 Cherokee 140B coast to coast with wife and small boys in 1978. My wife later said "I would have enjoyed it more if I knew ahead of time I was going to survive the trip".
I learned in a Piper Warrior (PA28-161) and am impressed with its easy and docile characteristics. Has decent power and is comfortable for a bigger guy.
I flew from Long Beach, CA to Springfield MO for my commercial long cross country. 35 hours round trip, in a Cherokee 140. I took my commercial check ride in a 140. I loved how one could "chirp" the tires on landing. Really liked that bird.
@@rrad3926 It was summer and in the Texas Panhandle I watched two hundred mile long squall lines of thunder storms build. I learned to see and avoid. Land if you need to. I landed at one airport in Texas that was once a fighter base. It had a 16000 foot runway. I was at 4000 feet when I got to the far end of the runway. The usable runway was 6000 feet. The east end of the runway was a full blown drag strip. A beautiful use of a huge strip of concrete.
@@rrad3926 When I was in the Navy Reserve my crew flew through squall lines in west pac around Guam and the Philippines. Not fun, but we were looking at Typhoons and such. We were in P3 Orions and bounced pretty bad. A Cherokee 140 would have been just a snack for a thunder storm.
The first two planes I learned to fly in were the Cessna 150 and a Cherokee 140. It was interesting to learn their different flight characteristics, particularly the very different stall behaviors.
As a 6’3” pilot, the C150 cockpit is just too darn small and uncomfortable. And while the Cherokee may not have the best performance, it outclimbs and out cruises the C150 by a landslide, especially if you’re flying light (a lot of my time would be spent solo). Go log 10 hours in a C150 and then fly in a Cherokee or Skyhawk and you’ll think you’re in Heaven. I’ve contemplated removing the backseats for extra baggage space if I bought a Cherokee.
I've trained in many different Pipers; first solo in a 161 with the 180HP "Bold Warrior" STC. That thing can CLIMB. It also had a quirk that it required 5 shots of primer every start. Cold day? 5 shots. Warm day? 5 shots. Hot start? 5 shots. It refused to start without 5 shots of prime. I learned that the hard way. My checkride was in a Cherokee 180F. Impressive forward speed and its Hershey Bars were excellent for steep approaches and had docile stall characteristics. I got my Complex in an Arrow II; again, love the Hershey Bar and that thing would cook. I also prefer the heavyness of it's controls over the other Pipers. Even after completing my Complex, I continued in the Arrow II; I loved it so much I refused to fly anything else. Unfortunately, all three of those birds are off the line for an indeterminate period of time. I miss them and I have so many fond memories flying them.
The Piper Cherokee 140 was my first bird. I found, among many issues, the ground effect was great. The Cessna series has a ground effect almost AFTER it lands. Too late. My trainer in 1968 was being sold at $6,500.
I started out and first soloed in a twin-engined jet (not a prop) airplane. It worked for me. The important thing is good instruction in the airplane you have. But if I had a kid, I'd start him/her off in a Cessna 152 with steam gauges.
I started flying lessons with a cessna 152. After about 10 hours, I decided I liked the low wings better and switched to a cherokee. Liked them so much I bought one and still love cherokees. Not the fastest by any means but great planes and higher HP versions get more speed. I'd recommend looking for a late 60s cherokee 180 or a low time archer if you can afford one.
100% agree! I learned to fly at Embry-Riddle in C172's. They were decent airplanes, but they always felt kind of wobbly to me, not solid. Their stall characteristics were ideal for training, since they would definitely stall, but wouldn't drop a wing unless you wanted that to happen. The Piper Warrior on the other hand always felt much more solid, and it had tighter controls. Stalling this airplane was different from the C172, since the Piper just kind of "mushed" and had this small drop of the nose. I guess the Cessna product was better in this regard in that it taught a student was a stall was better, but I still would prefer to instruct in a Warrior And ownership? I've never owned an airplane and don't want to, but if I was going to buy an airplane, it would be a straight wing Piper Cherokee. I used to rent one in 1989 at Sebastian, Florida, N2657T. I'd want a NEW O-320 D2J engine with the appropriate STC for mogas with 150 hp. And it would basically be "zero timed", I'd spend the $100K on this airplane primarily to fly it down to Key West or up the east coast of Flori-Duh, but primarily I would do traffic pattern work. I would take it back to its original paint scheme from the 1960's with red leather interior. I guess I would go glass panel, that is what they are doing these days since the glass is far more reliable. IFR? Probably not, since that costs $ and this would be a toy for nice days. Great video!
Very good video - Ive always liked low wing aircraft and trained on Tomahawks and Cherokee Warriors both excellent platforms. However my favorite Piper is the Arrow 200 constant speed prop, retractable gear and a very stable and easy aircraft to fly.
The AOPA recently did a study. In said study, they determined that if one wasn't flying at least 70 hours a year, one had no business buying an aircraft. I agree with that assessment. Rental pilot myself, and I doubt that will ever change.
My first was a Piper Archer (Cherokee by another name). Eventually, bought a Bonanza. Both great planes. Both great instrument platforms. Unfortunately my wife hates flying.
Started flying with a Cherokee 140. Good trainer, but slow and can't carry much. Bought an Archer (180HP) as my first plane, but it couldn't outclimb the clouds building up in Florida and not powerful enough for the mountains, so bought a Saratoga II TC -- great plane!
I have a Warrior II with Penn Yann 180hp and climb prop. Seems to do alright around here in Utah unless I have four people on board and DA is above 7000 and I’m trying to clear 11,000 quickly. Most of the time I can get around 1000fpm climb taking off at field elevation of 4500.
@@alexs3187 That's great performance! I don't recall ever getting that performance with my Archer III, but it was a nice plane. When I and an instructor couldn't outclimb the clouds in a morning in April going to Sun N' Fun, I knew I needed more power. The summer clouds built up even faster.
@@GreatDataVideos did you have the Hershey Bar wing? Also I think my prop makes a big difference. I just tried to climb over the mountains today and I was only getting about 400 fpm, but I had a 250 lb guy in the front seat, two kids in the back and field DA at about 6300. I like it much better when it’s just me in it. When we got the new engine and prop in GA, I had to pull the throttle back cos it got to 140mph too easily and would start to over speed the prop.
@@GreatDataVideos My cherokee would climb out at over 900fpm in texas even in summer. I agree with alex that the prop pitch can really make the difference. Course a saratoga solves all kinds of problems for you. Nice planes!
Best Piper are early Archers. 180 hp engine probably most reliable out there. Cruise helps to knock done those annoying headwinds giving reasonable groundspeed. Archer 3 are nice but heavy.
Learn to sell credit spread options. Join an organization that offers several trades/week. I found one with an 85% win/break even rate. Hoard every penny you earn for five years doing four trades/week and you will have a substantial, self sustaining nest egg.
My option would be : become a mechanic then buy cheap, maintain, enhance... An old plane + Paint + New interior + glass cockpit cost half the price of New.
It doesn’t make sense to buy one. Flying clubs and lease backs are affordable options. I learned thru Piper in Long Beach. I applied myself and got my lic in 6 months, about $3500- then. Soloed in 10 hours, tested at 40 hrs and passed. My instructor, Jill, went on to become a Captain with Alaska Airlines. She was a great pilot and gave me a lot of confidence, too much at times. 😜
I’ve done most of my flying in a warrior (after initially starting out in 152s and 172s). It’s just a *better* experience for someone like me. I like low wings…they look like an airplane should look from the cabin. But more importantly, the Cherokees are extremely predictable and consistent. It’s easy to keep your situational awareness in the pattern. Sure, the flaps are manual, “emergency brake” style but who cares? Flying in a warrior just feels RIGHT…
The e-brake style flaps have 2 benefits over the Cessna style. 1. If you lose electrical, you still have flaps & 2. You can't really accidentally knock down the lever and overspeed the flaps by accident.
Too many pilots trained in the Cessna world (due to Cessnas excellent training/ marketing strategy) which creates a blindness to Piper, Beech etc. I remember transitioning from a Cessna 152 to a Warrior and then back to a C-172. The Cessnas seemed so cheap and like you’re sitting on a crate with spindly, cheap controls compared to the comfort and solidity of Piper or Beech.
I've flown in both and love the extra speed of the mooney but the annuals are quite a bit more and the cockpits on the ones that are close in price are very tight. So as with all things... there are plus and minus to both.
As Skyhawk owner for 32 years now, I have to disagree. Why would you want to fly an airplane that you can never see the ground from? 🤔😉 lol. ( I’m always kidding my buddy who has one! )👍🙋♂️🖖🏻
Naaahhh .... what new "pilots" need these days ... are qualified, disciplined instructors and inspectors who know how to fly well ... themselves!!!! And possessing the discipline to know the difference between executing a truly difficult landing, or perfectly executing a half hour of near-stall slow-flight .... and a student with the money to purchase a new death ride!!!!
CG on the Cherokee 140 is horrible. Fuel to tabs and two humans is at full forward CG … put someone in the back to shift CG aft … and you’re above gross.
What new pilots need today is the ability to purchase a new airplane at a reasonable price. 50 years ago, a 1972 Cessna 172 could be had for approximately $15,000. That same $15,000 in 1972 would be about $108,000 today. You can't even TRIPPLE that number, to $324,000 and get a new 2022 172. In fact, depending on how you equip one, you can't even quadruple that same 1972 $15,000 buying power and get a new 172. It's no wonder the once thriving GA airports near me are now all but ghost towns. Who can afford almost half a million dollars for something you can't even take a family of 4 on a decent trip with, not to mention $8 plus for a gallon of gas???
very true. I wish someone would make an affordable aircraft that could turn things around but in the sue crazy world... won't happen.
It’s all the rules that surround certified parts and equipment used to make these parts. Not to mention the insurance these major manufacturers need to have. We can thank the government for the GA crisis. That’s why most are getting into kit aircraft. It’s a shame..
Dude I see cherokees on trade a plane with fresh annuals for 60k. Same with cessnas.
I think a good business might be a group ownership like they do with Condos in other countries for a vacation spot. You get a ride whenever capable of scheduling with an annual contribution. Yes you need a decent amount of people but a stable Uber concept would solve the cost issue.
@@christopherbernhardtyeah what a deal!.... for 50 year old airplanes.... how bad are the avionics...
I own a Cherokee 235 and it is the greatest thing ever. It has worked as a wonderful training airplane for me to finish my certificates and ratings in, but also as a family flier. Super forgiving and fun aircraft to fly.
Mike,
My husband and I own a Dakota. It is a fantastic people mover. We just had a new panel installed with a JPI 930 and GFC 500 AP. Game changer for us. It's a very stable instrument platform when ice is not around.
I owned a 140 back in the 80's. Bought it for 20k. Great plane and IFR certified too! Did my AFR in it but the plane refused to stall with power on at 3000 ft. After several tries with full aft elevator and take-off power, the examiner had me do one power off, and called it a day.
Flew my 1969 Cherokee 140B coast to coast with wife and small boys in 1978. My wife later said "I would have enjoyed it more if I knew ahead of time I was going to survive the trip".
I learned in a Piper Warrior (PA28-161) and am impressed with its easy and docile characteristics. Has decent power and is comfortable for a bigger guy.
4:06 Man, that turn coordinator is jacked up!
Just bought a 1984 Piper Archer!
I flew from Long Beach, CA to Springfield MO for my commercial long cross country. 35 hours round trip, in a Cherokee 140. I took my commercial check ride in a 140. I loved how one could "chirp" the tires on landing. Really liked that bird.
Helluva cross country! I bet it was a blast and you learned a ton.
@@rrad3926 It was summer and in the Texas Panhandle I watched two hundred mile long squall lines of thunder storms build. I learned to see and avoid. Land if you need to. I landed at one airport in Texas that was once a fighter base. It had a 16000 foot runway. I was at 4000 feet when I got to the far end of the runway. The usable runway was 6000 feet. The east end of the runway was a full blown drag strip. A beautiful use of a huge strip of concrete.
@@johnemerson1363 Those old SAC bases are incredible. I've done touch and go's at the old one in Burns Flat. Squall lines are no joke.
@@rrad3926 When I was in the Navy Reserve my crew flew through squall lines in west pac around Guam and the Philippines. Not fun, but we were looking at Typhoons and such. We were in P3 Orions and bounced pretty bad. A Cherokee 140 would have been just a snack for a thunder storm.
The first two planes I learned to fly in were the Cessna 150 and a Cherokee 140. It was interesting to learn their different flight characteristics, particularly the very different stall behaviors.
As a 6’3” pilot, the C150 cockpit is just too darn small and uncomfortable. And while the Cherokee may not have the best performance, it outclimbs and out cruises the C150 by a landslide, especially if you’re flying light (a lot of my time would be spent solo). Go log 10 hours in a C150 and then fly in a Cherokee or Skyhawk and you’ll think you’re in Heaven.
I’ve contemplated removing the backseats for extra baggage space if I bought a Cherokee.
I've trained in many different Pipers; first solo in a 161 with the 180HP "Bold Warrior" STC. That thing can CLIMB. It also had a quirk that it required 5 shots of primer every start. Cold day? 5 shots. Warm day? 5 shots. Hot start? 5 shots. It refused to start without 5 shots of prime. I learned that the hard way. My checkride was in a Cherokee 180F. Impressive forward speed and its Hershey Bars were excellent for steep approaches and had docile stall characteristics. I got my Complex in an Arrow II; again, love the Hershey Bar and that thing would cook. I also prefer the heavyness of it's controls over the other Pipers. Even after completing my Complex, I continued in the Arrow II; I loved it so much I refused to fly anything else. Unfortunately, all three of those birds are off the line for an indeterminate period of time. I miss them and I have so many fond memories flying them.
The Piper Cherokee 140 was my first bird. I found, among many issues, the ground effect was great. The Cessna series has a ground effect almost AFTER it lands. Too late.
My trainer in 1968 was being sold at $6,500.
You learn the faults of the airplane you are in. They all have them. Learning about ground effect isn't rocket science. Get over it.
I started out and first soloed in a twin-engined jet (not a prop) airplane. It worked for me. The important thing is good instruction in the airplane you have. But if I had a kid, I'd start him/her off in a Cessna 152 with steam gauges.
I started flying lessons with a cessna 152. After about 10 hours, I decided I liked the low wings better and switched to a cherokee. Liked them so much I bought one and still love cherokees. Not the fastest by any means but great planes and higher HP versions get more speed. I'd recommend looking for a late 60s cherokee 180 or a low time archer if you can afford one.
100% agree!
I learned to fly at Embry-Riddle in C172's. They were decent airplanes, but they always felt kind of wobbly to me, not solid. Their stall characteristics were ideal for training, since they would definitely stall, but wouldn't drop a wing unless you wanted that to happen.
The Piper Warrior on the other hand always felt much more solid, and it had tighter controls. Stalling this airplane was different from the C172, since the Piper just kind of "mushed" and had this small drop of the nose. I guess the Cessna product was better in this regard in that it taught a student was a stall was better, but I still would prefer to instruct in a Warrior
And ownership? I've never owned an airplane and don't want to, but if I was going to buy an airplane, it would be a straight wing Piper Cherokee. I used to rent one in 1989 at Sebastian, Florida, N2657T. I'd want a NEW O-320 D2J engine with the appropriate STC for mogas with 150 hp. And it would basically be "zero timed", I'd spend the $100K on this airplane primarily to fly it down to Key West or up the east coast of Flori-Duh, but primarily I would do traffic pattern work. I would take it back to its original paint scheme from the 1960's with red leather interior. I guess I would go glass panel, that is what they are doing these days since the glass is far more reliable. IFR? Probably not, since that costs $ and this would be a toy for nice days.
Great video!
Very good video - Ive always liked low wing aircraft and trained on Tomahawks and Cherokee Warriors both excellent platforms. However my favorite Piper is the Arrow 200 constant speed prop, retractable gear and a very stable and easy aircraft to fly.
This is the first and last aeroplane that I got to fly! The pilot let me take control. Do it if you can. 😃👍
The AOPA recently did a study. In said study, they determined that if one wasn't flying at least 70 hours a year, one had no business buying an aircraft. I agree with that assessment. Rental pilot myself, and I doubt that will ever change.
I’ve been training on a Cherokee and couldn’t agree more!
My first was a Piper Archer (Cherokee by another name). Eventually, bought a Bonanza. Both great planes. Both great instrument platforms. Unfortunately my wife hates flying.
Started flying with a Cherokee 140. Good trainer, but slow and can't carry much. Bought an Archer (180HP) as my first plane, but it couldn't outclimb the clouds building up in Florida and not powerful enough for the mountains, so bought a Saratoga II TC -- great plane!
I have a Warrior II with Penn Yann 180hp and climb prop. Seems to do alright around here in Utah unless I have four people on board and DA is above 7000 and I’m trying to clear 11,000 quickly. Most of the time I can get around 1000fpm climb taking off at field elevation of 4500.
@@alexs3187 That's great performance! I don't recall ever getting that performance with my Archer III, but it was a nice plane. When I and an instructor couldn't outclimb the clouds in a morning in April going to Sun N' Fun, I knew I needed more power. The summer clouds built up even faster.
@@GreatDataVideos did you have the Hershey Bar wing? Also I think my prop makes a big difference. I just tried to climb over the mountains today and I was only getting about 400 fpm, but I had a 250 lb guy in the front seat, two kids in the back and field DA at about 6300. I like it much better when it’s just me in it.
When we got the new engine and prop in GA, I had to pull the throttle back cos it got to 140mph too easily and would start to over speed the prop.
@@GreatDataVideos My cherokee would climb out at over 900fpm in texas even in summer. I agree with alex that the prop pitch can really make the difference. Course a saratoga solves all kinds of problems for you. Nice planes!
I learned to fly in a Cherokee 140 back in 1968.
Trained mainly in a ‘74 Archer. Great, and relatively cheaper to maintain.
The Tomahawk was a great trainer or just to fly around in but the useful load was around 470 lbs.
Best Piper are early Archers. 180 hp engine probably most reliable out there. Cruise helps to knock done those annoying headwinds giving reasonable groundspeed. Archer 3 are nice but heavy.
I don't know why I keep watching. I'll never be able to buy one of these.
Learn to sell credit spread options. Join an organization that offers several trades/week. I found one with an 85% win/break even rate. Hoard every penny you earn for five years doing four trades/week and you will have a substantial, self sustaining nest egg.
My option would be : become a mechanic then buy cheap, maintain, enhance... An old plane + Paint + New interior + glass cockpit cost half the price of New.
Oh come on man! You can absolutely buy one of them one day, saying it's impossible is objectively wrong.
It doesn’t make sense to buy one. Flying clubs and lease backs are affordable options. I learned thru Piper in Long Beach. I applied myself and got my lic in 6 months, about $3500- then. Soloed in 10 hours, tested at 40 hrs and passed. My instructor, Jill, went on to become a Captain with Alaska Airlines. She was a great pilot and gave me a lot of confidence, too much at times. 😜
Not with THAT attitude!
Train in a Tomahawk, just love it. Perfect for training and local flights
as long as the wings don,t fall off.i love pa 28s
I’ve done most of my flying in a warrior (after initially starting out in 152s and 172s). It’s just a *better* experience for someone like me. I like low wings…they look like an airplane should look from the cabin. But more importantly, the Cherokees are extremely predictable and consistent. It’s easy to keep your situational awareness in the pattern. Sure, the flaps are manual, “emergency brake” style but who cares? Flying in a warrior just feels RIGHT…
The e-brake style flaps have 2 benefits over the Cessna style. 1. If you lose electrical, you still have flaps & 2. You can't really accidentally knock down the lever and overspeed the flaps by accident.
been my fave plane since I was a baby
I fly 12 to 17 hours a year and I bought a cirrus sr22. I couldn't have made a better decision financially.
Too many pilots trained in the Cessna world (due to Cessnas excellent training/ marketing strategy) which creates a blindness to Piper, Beech etc. I remember transitioning from a Cessna 152 to a Warrior and then back to a C-172. The Cessnas seemed so cheap and like you’re sitting on a crate with spindly, cheap controls compared to the comfort and solidity of Piper or Beech.
Nice video.
Why the AM radio DJ voice?
That was my trainer. 1986.
I hope they've changed, but in the late 60s the FAAs airworthiness directives (AD Notes) were nicknamed Piper roll call 🤔🤣
They had some wing failures.
Can you do a Comanche 250
I'd lean towards the option with the engine that was designed within my lifetime.
My biggest gripe about Piper is that they have non-standard six packs. Every Piper I flew was “organized” randomly.
For the same price you can get a Mooney with the same reliable 0 360 but fly 25-30 knots faster. That's what I did.
I've flown in both and love the extra speed of the mooney but the annuals are quite a bit more and the cockpits on the ones that are close in price are very tight. So as with all things... there are plus and minus to both.
Cada um tem um gosto. Como eu voei bastante os dois, prefiro o Cessna 172.
Hershey Bars!
As Skyhawk owner for 32 years now, I have to disagree. Why would you want to fly an airplane that you can never see the ground from? 🤔😉 lol. ( I’m always kidding my buddy who has one! )👍🙋♂️🖖🏻
Naaahhh .... what new "pilots" need these days ... are qualified, disciplined instructors and inspectors who know how to fly well ... themselves!!!! And possessing the discipline to know the difference between executing a truly difficult landing, or perfectly executing a half hour of near-stall slow-flight .... and a student with the money to purchase a new death ride!!!!
Step right up and take your chances on the NEW wing AD or your wing falling off. 60-100k to fix your new “cheap” airplane.
It’s $88,000-$100,000 on avg
Whoops had to cut it short, I believed this video was on the Cherokee 140, not the Tomahawk
WLUNArichgang
1
I’d like your videos more if you’d stop with the ridiculous announcer voice. 😒
Not at that price...
I like my 150 as a first plane
Wheres all the American indian pilots flying these planes? Is the next model going to be called the Teepee?
CG on the Cherokee 140 is horrible. Fuel to tabs and two humans is at full forward CG … put someone in the back to shift CG aft … and you’re above gross.