Clearing some things up: - I am in no way, shape, or form defending Curly's actions. I understand that the beginning of his analysis at the end makes it look that way, but that's not how it is. My stance on Curly is that he is a good man with all the right intentions but importantly, NONE of those intentions are utilized to any extent. His inaction lead to the ultimate downfall of the entire ship, even if Jimmy was the one doing all the evil. - Referring to my own sexual assault as "less bad" than Anya's makes it sound like I believe that some assaults are worse than others, I do not believe this. Yes, the outcome of an assault may be different from another but at the end of the day the effects on the victim are still the same and no one's experience should be devalued because they suffered less physical harm. - I am now aware that what I thought was a sorry board in the lounge is actually a different game entirely in which the middle is actually the end goal of the game, not the corners. I initially assumed it to be the other way around because it is commented that Daisuke is very lucky in the game implying that he would be the one winning. - I know what "how fish is made" is and am considering looking into it. However, since Anya's story is the one that got me so into this game, I'm not super enthusiastic about doing a deep dive on Curly, a character I don't really care about. - Thank you to the dozens of you who have pointed out that the weights, flowers, and gameboy were all referencing Daisuke's belongings that could be found next to his sleeping bag. I missed that, but I don't really blame myself as, by that time in the game, there is a lot of visual clutter especially in the lounge. I don't blame myself for missing something that could've easily been mistaken as just a prop. - I now understand that Polle at the end of Judgement is way more likely meant to be Anya, not the child, given it's text color being the same as Anya's. It would make a lot more sense that the "final" part of the atonement was headed by her. The mountain of mouthwash bottles signifying how hard he tried to silence her, standing at the top and conquering it all in the end. that final line being Anya telling him "if you're really so ready to take responsibility, why do you think that has anything to do with curly?" Anyways, I might update this again in the future, but for now, thanks for the support this video has gotten so far. I can only hope that it continues on the trend it has right now. I think I was a little right in my final thoughts about losing some views due to being late to talking about the game and people like Risley and Minaxa already doing videos like this (which is in no way a jab at them! they're videos are just as worthy of views as mine lmao, this is entirely a fault of my own), but I'll have to live with that. Something Something- comparison is the thief of joy.
That begs the question: What kind of environment did that Asshole Jimbo either had grown up in/with and/or how did it affect his adult Life to the point where he's practically comfortable with spiking people's drinks here,for example here,honestly...!? And how'd he LEAST get away with some of it,not all-but some here,honestly..? What the hell did he DO before he eventually got the job from Curly here anyways, Buddy..?
@@SocksNeedsHelp WAIT WAIT EVEN MORE. When Jimmy gets the extra medical cabinet open, there is a TON of paracetamol, but ONLY 1 bottle of isopropyl. There is no way that Pony Express packed that much paracetamol but only one bottle of disinfectant. SO, you can assume that JIMMY HAD ALREADY BEEN USING THE ISOPROPYL BEFORE THE CRASH. especially because Jimmy could get to it without needing to get into medical, which is probably locked at night. Poor Anya...
fun fact! the real-life pony express delivery service that ran in the late 1800s actually required their riders to carry a christian bible for each ride, and all the workers were forced to sign a pledge promising not to drink alcohol, curse, or to fight with their coworkers. i just think it's neat that the tulpar crew completely decimates all of those promises :)
Also mainly hired from orphans and people society wouldnt miss. It was deadly work. And they knew it. That if you died. It was unlikely they would be able to recover your body...
After Daisuke dies, Swansea says that he doesn't care if Jimmy survives or not, so him attacking Jimmy wouldn't make sense, the best explanation I've found is that Swansea never attacked Jimmy, it was a delusion created by Jimmy to explain why he killed him, in his mind Swansea was a killer that was waiting for everyone to die so he could save his own ass, a man that killed Daisuke and was going to do the same thing to Jimmy, he created two scenarios, one where he gets attacked after getting the gun for "self-defense" and one where he gets attacked while being completely defenseless and while trying to take control of the ship, when in reality Swansea was just sitting in the chair, waiting for his end.
by far the best interpretation of those scenes for me i think! it never made sense for me, it would be just like him to take swanseas speech as physical attacks....
I know I’m late to reply but this is the first time I’ve seen this interpretation and it makes so much sense. I was having a hard time figuring out why it didn’t seem like Swansea was bound in the last dialogue scene. I thought if he truly was out to kill Jimmy in a fit of rage then he should be bound to the chair. But he was just sitting. It makes me so sad to think that he was so devoid of hope after losing Daisuke that he just accepts being executed. Absolutely tragic.
Fun fact, there's actually a prequel that tells us a LOT about Curly's inner thoughts beyond what we get in Mouthwashing. It's called How Fish Is Made, and it really goes into Curly's own mental problems that he really should of mentioned on the psyche eval, and what he's thinking while he lays on that medical bed. I'm not nearly qualified to properly break down that fever dream of a game but I'll attempt it. A very important part is that Curly doesn't just feel like his life is stagnant and he wants change, he also thinks his life CAN'T change. He doesn't believe in his choices mattering anymore. The entire game is about the illusion of choice, and considering it's supposed to be something in Curly's head, we can assume he truly believes that no matter what, things will stay the same. His view is probably the most nihilistic, and he decides inaction is his best option since actually doing things won't change the outcome anyways. That's why he not only let Jimmy on the ship but suggested he take the job, in the end it'll all be the same. He didn't push to stop Daisuke from joining the crew, he didn't help Anya in her time of need, he didn't do anything because even if he did it'd just end the same. Though based on how the game portrays it and what as been said, Curly finally becomes disillusioned after the crash. He takes responsibility for his decisions that led them here. He finally realizes that his choices matter... Far too late for his choices to matter anymore. I also want to point out that Curly says "...You know. He joined because of me." which makes me believe that he does not forgive Jimmy after the crash, Jimmy just thinks Curly still trusts him because he's delusional. Curly blaming himself means he regrets getting Jimmy to join, and that doesn't sound like forgiveness, though it could be Curly deferring the blame from Jimmy to himself, I'm not entirely sure. But admittedly I could have some of this info wrong or misinterpreted things, so if someone who can explain things better, feel free to correct me
@SocksNeedsHelp How fish is made is a standalone game but it's DLC ties into mouthwashing and had some thematic ties to responsibility, along with featuring Curly
I loved the analysis but just small little nit picks: -Jimmy crashes the ship not because he's going to be a father and doesn't want that but because a baby was absolute proof of his crime. And that it would ruin his life. So he ruins everyone else's to take them down with him. (This is a small but very common thing being said around the event and it irks me to no end.) -anya praising Jimmy is a fawn response. It's her way of keeping herself safe and alive. There's not just fight or flight but fawn as well. She's stuck in a ship with no escape from her abuser. She's fawning to attempt to survive. Everything about this game has me obsessed. I loved your take and you've Gained a new sub. :)
@mogie_bear5031 no actually ! Google has a really good definition in my opinion so here you are: when an individual tries to avoid or minimize distress or danger by pleasing and appeasing the threat. In essence-they do whatever they can to keep the abuser happy regardless of their needs or want to minimize danger. Freeze is just not being able to move/react and often in times will be a preparation of active fight or flight. Much, MUCH different. I hope that helped!
I guess fawn is one word for it but when i looked it up they use the word friend as it accounts for both 'befriending' your aggressor (as you already stated) or calling for someone else like a bystander or such which is actually tried to do by talking to Curly prior to the crash.
@@PrestoPuma I've honestly never heard or seen anything in my personal research call fawn "friend" but it makes sense as well! I've just always called it fawn. I dunno if I'd say that Anya was using friend on Curly before the crash-she seemed to trust him up until he didn't do anything about the assault and that's where things fell apart. She didn't try and convince him by fawning to give her the gun. She just took it because she "knew he'd never give it to her to protect herself". because of how he did nothing about what happened to her other than "I'll fix it/I'll talk to him". but that's just my interpretation.
I wanted to put this here just because I haven't seen anyone else talking about it, but I think it's really telling that the first time we see pre-crash Curly is right before Jimmy crashes the ship because we're really seeing who Curly is for the first time. He isn't a perfect victim who did nothing wrong. He isn't a complete monster who crashed the ship because he wanted to kill everyone on board like we might assume at the beginning. He's an incredibly flawed person who, through his inaction, chose his friend over his crew and their safety. He doesn't deserve what happened to him, no one deserves Curly's fate, but in a way he's very very real. For every Jimmy in the real world, there are Curlys who excuse their actions and don't do anything to help. And in that way, he isn't a villain like Jimmy or innocent like Daisuke. He's very terrifyingly human.
thats a really good point. another thing i wanna add onto this is that if you look closely, curly is wearing the same mechanic shirt as swansea and daisuke under his uniform. I think thats pretty telling about how he had the ability to fix things the whole time but it was held back by his warped idea of responsibility.
fun fact: anya has a book in her office named 'Up or Down: the Illusion of Choice' which references to the prequel, 'how fish is made.' this game feels like a fever dream so i wont bother explaining it but im pretty sure someone already did.
@YelinBayildiran-lx3kl im aware of that game and i might play it and make a video about how it connects to this game if this video does well enough. I think if you look at it in a vacuum its kind of like telling Anya that no matter what she sees of Jimmy, it will always end poorly
45:13 my interpretation of the axe on the screen is that it's a callback to the dead pixel Anya talks about. The bigger picture can't be enjoyed anymore because the dead pixel is now an all consuming crack. Hes telling jimmy "i know who you really are". He cant hide anymore, especially without Curly to bail him out.
As a woman Anya's story really speaks to me because this is the reality that I've been unable to put into words to my male friends until now. It does not matter. It doesn't matter how successful, intelligent, skilled, competent, how hard I try, how much I succeed. At the end of the day I am only a woman and I'll never be anything more. That's what she experienced on that ship. She could be the best student in her med school, she could have been the most skilled nurse on the planet for all she cared. The minute a man decided to, he could take all of that away from her. And there's nothing she could do to stop it, nor did anyone care to. This is reality. This is what's it's like to experience true hopelessness like this as a woman. Who cares if most of the men on that ship were good men. It only took one.
Someone else in the comments pointed out how the majority of men who play the game need to be told about Anya's SA and the women who play it usually get it immediately with the convo between curly and Anya in the lounge.
12:48 probably one of my favorite hidden subtleties in this entire game is the text at the bottom, "DragonBreath CO will not accept responsibility for any harm caused by the use of this product". The theme of Irresponsibility is so deeply ingrained in every story beat, and it's all deliberate. The fact that Curly was ready to share responsibility, but Jimmy wasn't? It kills 99.9% of all germs, but what about that last remaining 0.1%? Every moment in this game was so carefully and thoughtfully plotted out. Incredible. Horrific, but also Incredible.
I might not watch it rn but I’m definitely looking forward to watching this when I have the time, I’ve been waiting weeks for a Mouthwashing analysis video that’s over an hour long
One thing I find interesting is that Anya specifically says "our worst moments" instead of "our worst actions". When she's locked in the medical room, I think she's actually referring to Jimmy assaulting her as one of her own worst moments, which is why she said she hoped it "doesn't make us beyond repair". The dialogue in this game is incredible, and your analysis is great :)
"there is no good ending" did you know that if you let Swansea kill you ten times in the maze hallucination you'll get a achievement titled 'good ending' (I edited it to say 10 times because I missed how many times it took)
32:47 i always saw this as Anya going into a fawning state- she cant run away or fight jimmy off in this situation, so appeasing him is her safest option.
I actually had an hypothesis on what Jimmy's mental trips are. Along with other reasons, it's a way that he conflates what he's actually doing on the ship. - Giving Curly medicine was a simple task. It was probably harder to treat his burns, wrap him in bandages, attempt to sterilize his surroundings, and stay up to date on his condition probably at the cost of sleep, all while the medical supplies diminished. Anya most likely did all of this while also giving Jimmy ideas of what he could do so he could actually help while also not being around her. However, Jimmy had the crazy hard task of shoving a pill down his throat. Which I think the only reason Anya couldn't do was because she's not someone who could forcibly insert things onto others. Jimmy on the other hand is a pro. Blacking it out could be a way to make it seem grander than reality would have it be. - He wasn't just grabbing a container of mouthwash to splash on Daisuke (despite Anya's warning). No sir he was battling with a megaton demon horse who was guarding it's treasure from the ship crew. He would literally just have to open a couple doors. Mouthwash was the ONLY thing the ship had in the cargo. Crap tons of it. To think that Swansea just went and killed Daisuke after all that hard work Jimmy did. What a jerk! - Speaking of which, he didn't just gun down a drunk guy tied to a chair after swinging an axe at him. He was FIGHTING for his LIFE in an EPIC BATTLE. Running through the ship halls, crawling through the death trap vent, and having a final duel for the honor of Daisuke just to add that extra flair. Didn't have to worry about Daisuke rejecting his heroic title because he's dead. We can tell ourselves anything about dead people because they can't object to it themselves. - In the end, you're not just feeding Curly his own leg meat and just pushing it back in his mouth if he spits it out. You are literally fixing him by turning all the valves and tuning his body so he's able to get what he needs. So cool Jimmy. Some other tidbits to note that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Jimmy looking at himself in the TV screen walking through space, is his first moment of self reflection. He finally sees himself and yet it only made him see just a few mistakes here and there. This guy took about a year, three corpses, and a 99.9% burnt vegetable of his friend to get THAT far. Like damn dude's gonna need at least three more hopeless death trips in the void of space to become at least a semi decent person. Also in my mind is a scary thought. Anya already dealt with the baby by overdosing herself and taking it along with her. However, the "horse fetus aborting" scene makes me wonder if Jimmy thought he still, not only needed to do something, but still could fix this thing by doing what he did. "What he did" possibly being him going to Anya's corpse and literally ripping the fetus out. A scene so horrid that a psyche trip of a weird horse worm is way more palatable. It's just that "all clean" part that unnerves me. Literally just washing out a corpse worrying more about some little thing inside it that's already dead. Then having the gull to say that YOU fixed it, and on top of that, still deny how it got there in the first place. Love the video btw. It's always cool to get a bunch of thoughts on this amazing title.
- so i think an interesting point about this is that anya actually says that forcing the painkillers on curly "hurts him so much" which is why she doesn't want to do it. everything else helps him, but the administering of the pills hurts him. anya is a good person and thats why she finds the helping parts easy and the hurting parts hard, jimmy is the opposite. the fact "i hope this hurts" flashes throughout the "all clean" brief cutscene shows the dichotomy of how he thinks he's helping, how he thinks he's just fixing his mistakes when in reality it hurts the others and he loves it.
45:37 I think Swansea specifically swinging the axe into (and breaking it) is symbolic of the illusion that everything will be alright (the screen) finally being broken as we see Daisuke completely breaking down from the mouthwash and Anya contemplating drinking it too. It also acts as a sort of turning point where Swansea seems to have completely given up on everything too
@@SocksNeedsHelpI also see it having this as meaning as well as being forshadowing/almost a pun on he fact that he puts the ax through both of the 'useless rays of sunshine ' on the ship. Both the false sunshine, and diasuke. It's only after dais death do we feel the impact and usefulness of his sunny disposition. Jimmy only truly snaps into complete delusion, when those final lights are snuffed out.
This is a really great video about Mouthwashing, you've done excellent analysis! But what you said near the end concerned me a bit, you mentioned being sexually assaulted but that it 'wasn't as bad' as Anya's. As a fellow survivor who spent years telling myself what happened to me wasn't that bad, even when it happened multiple times or when I was heartbreakingly young. I felt like since my experiences weren't all ultraviolent alley encounters that they weren't worth me kicking up a fuss about. That's a very very common feeling amongst survivors, that by telling our stories we're somehow stealing comfort and care from other, more 'deserving' survivors. I just want you to know that regardless of how 'bad' your sexual assault was, you deserved comfort and care. It's not a competition about who had it worse, and ANY violation of your bodily autonomy is something you shouldn't have had to experience at all. It wasn't your fault.
@celestialcass thank you, thank you!!! And... i dont know. Im working on it. Like i said, i literally just started talking about it after almost 5 years have passed. Im already prone to devaluing my trauma.
@@SocksNeedsHelpit's something that can take a long time, and it takes a lot of therapy and work. 5 years seems like a long time, but it's always better late than never to start healing bit by bit. Imposter syndrome can often happen after trauma. Convincing us that it couldn't have been as bad as it was for others. My theory is that it's a shield our brain tries to put up in a misguided attempt to protect us from the truth. ... Because if we accept that what happened to us can be that bad, we have to then face how bad it truly was. We have to grapple with it. We have to figure out how to even begin processing the full effect it's had on us. But if we don't grapple with the whole picture, it's hard to recover fully. Overall I guess what I'm saying is - from what trauma survivor to another - be kind to yourself. You don't have to compare, and you can take your recovery at your own pace. And BTW, you aren't even alone in feeling like your trauma isn't "as bad" as others; imposter syndrome is actually an incredibly common trauma response. So don't feel bad for still struggling with it. I still deal with it sometimes myself even many years into recovery. But I promise you it gets easier over time. Just give yourself the patience and love ♥️. I wish you the best in your recovery journey and I'm glad that this game could be so cathartic for you.
yeah, i showed my therapist this video so im sure we're gonna have a lot to talk about next session haha. I think the reason I waited so long to start talking about this was simply because I didn't think anyone would care. A lot of people ignored me and my abuser did a great job at convincing me that it was fine at the time so I had to figure out that it even really happened for myself. The imposter syndrome is heavy for sure.
after watching this video and your playthrough it really stands out that the only two characters you actually play as are the ones that are supposed to "take responsibility", and yet it feels like you're just following along, not in control at all. I really loved seeing your more in-depth analysis of the story, since the playthrough felt way more laid back
@reesummerlover im glad you enjoyed! I would argue that swansea could also work to take responsibility a bit but he kind of did try at the end to be fair.
Totally agree with your last sentence, watching the playthrough and the essay right afterwards was a cool experience. Socks made so many little jokes & comments during gameplay on small details, which returned in the essay under much closer scrutiny
1:17:35 - Also, that whole weird ass sequence with Curly and the knobs and feeding him his own leg...I didn't get it at first, but when you mentioned how Jimbobwhocares feasting on Curly represented forcibly taking the position of captain from Curly, I think that along those lines, this scene was Jiminy trying to FORCE Curly to take it back. To take back being captain. Again he is FORCING someone else to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY even though he had poisoned and rotten the entire thing. Curly has no choice but to swallow and digest the rot that was originally his until his so called 'friend' desecrated and defiled it.
22:27 I see the "empty void" as the dead pixel, as you said, representing the blight that is Jimmy. She's living in a world infinitely darkened by him, yet Curly can't see it.
Something about the day of the crash: notice how after Anya tells Jimmy about the pregnancy Curly goes to look for Jimmy and finds him right outside of the cockpit. Where the gun would normally be. Jimmy immediately headed RIGHT to where he thought the gun was located after finding out about the pregnancy. Anya's instincts to hide the gun from him were 100% correct. I definitely think Jimmy intended to theraten/kill Anya with the gun and only crashed the ship as an alternative because he couldn't get the gun. People don't understand because they think "well wtf was Jimmy's plan after he killed Anya then?" That's the thing. He doesn't plan. All that matters to him is that he avoids taking responsibility and is willing to commit horrific violence to do so. You see this kind of thing in real life with family annihilators.
oh almost certainly, and she was likely in the medical room to lock herself in if she needed to. yeah a lot of people don't understand his actions forget that he's just stupid.
I saw a comment somewhere recently, talking about one action Curly could've acted upon to take responsibility once he learned of the situation; put Jimmy and Anya in cryopods for the ride back. For Anya, it might keep her pregnancy from progressing, and for Jimmy, it'd keep him from taking action against anybody (and himself) for the trip's interim. and i have been haunted by that ever since .....
The thing is that If they did their pay would be docked and that wouldn’t help Anya since she didn’t have any savings and was about to be jobless, and jimmy is the copilot and was needed
id personally take my pay being docked over suicide. also in this imaginary world where curly actually helped and detained Jimmy, this false version of him would likely be strong enough of a person to help her recover. I dont really care for fantasizing like this tho
I really liked this story, because Anya, Jimmy and Curly feel so real. The way Anya struggles to exist and cope with her SA, Jimmy's apathy to her and his hostility, Curly's inability to act or help...it all reminds me of my own experiences living with my abuser and how I know that telling certain people would be in vain due to their biases. I love Anya, because I know exactly what she's feeling...except the pregnancy, I can't feel that.
@cryguy0000 yeah im the same way. That pure hopelessness of people saying they understand without doing anything eats at you. You feel weak and its just miserable
I found the commentary on the "Sorry!" game board in the lounge especially interesting. I never thought anything of it, and I haven't seen anyone else mention it. Great observations and analysis.
i appreciate the comment... however I got that all wrong. that game is played the opposite way than I thought, the pieces ending in the middle. it makes a lot more sense with Jimmy having one foot out the door, anya barely making it out of the starting area and needing to go through jimmy, Daisuke being at the start of the game, and swansea still guiding Daisuke
I am so sorry about what happened to you, as a fellow woman that is my biggest nightmare. Probably one of the reasons this game hit so hard for me. Your analysis was spot on, and I REALLY appreciate the pauses and how sensitive you were around these heavy topics. Sending you hugs
Anya trying to appease Jimmy when he’s the captain is called “the Fawn response” much like the flight and fight response. She’s trying to protect herself. It could also just be a trauma response.
I'd say Swansea is more the abrasive pragmatacist than anything else. He had hope in him. Sure he was a jerk, fed up with responsibility in the same vein as Jimmy, and his hard exterior caused a lot of the problems indirectly, but he was competent. He was the one shouldering the responsibility, assessing the scope of their situation, and even securing at least someone's escape (his conversations with Anya and gradually shifting discussions on Daisuke are pretty close to confirming he was hiding the cyropod to guarantee it for him, still young and likely to recover from this incident). He was doing the right things against all his own interests, and Jimmy could only imagine him acting out of self interest. No wonder he wasn't allowed in the utility room. You made a great video. I've seen a video on Mouthwash by now, and your perspectives caught some interlocking but distinct details by interpreting the story. There's a lot to unpack here, and your perspective is very important, that's what the community is for. I know you've been unsure about the direction of the channel and all; just do what motivates you, keep pushing your passion. If you fret about filtering yourself for the amorphous blob of plugged in algorithms you lose yourself. Do what comes naturally, here or there.
Yeah i can see that. I dont think i meant swansea was nihilistic out of choice, more out of his alcoholism. I didnt even think that the anya and swansea convo we walk in on in the cockpit was about daisuke getting the pod, it makes total sense tbh. And anya would probably be fine with giving daisuke the pod, she just hated it because it meant she had to deal with jimmy
the flowers during Daisuke's section of Judgement are meant to be the ones on his shirt, and the pile of items (the flower, the weights and the gameboy) are mostly items that can be found around where he sleeps!
Small thing I think should be noted. Any conversations Jimmy has with Curly AFTER the crash, in which Curly talks back. Aren't actually Jimmy talking to Curly. It's Jimmy talking to himself and using Curly as the mouth piece. When Curly is talking about the cake, and seems to not be mad at Jimmy for what he did- That's because Jimmy is justifying himself to himself. His actions aren't so bad, because he can still make them lead to something good. Curly's still his friend. They can fix anything together! He's misusing Curlys words. The same way he attempts to misuse Anya's words when speaking with Polly. Jimmy starts to say his worst moments don't make him a monster, and Polly cuts him off because those aren't his words to use. Polly calls him out on misusing the words of others to justify his misdeeds by saying "If that's true, why are you so focused on him? (Curly)" We don't know Curly's thoughts post crash. The ONLY indication we get of them is him laughing when Jimmy gets the gun. (And then technically his speech in How Fish is Made. But that's not THIS game.) Any and all words he says post crash are what JIMMY wants and expects him to say.
57:57 I like to think that the gravestone spells out Swansea and Daisuke, since opening up the cargo hold and finding the mouthwash was what really made us lose them.
I don't think the Swansea fight, or even Swansea attacking Jimmy happened at all, I think that it was all Jimmy's delusions Swansea's speech even happens directly where the big monitor is, giving Jimmy something to imagine those visuals onto
Daisuke had a Game Boy (and I think a set of weights?) next to his makeshift bed after the crash. I think the flowers everywhere were supposed to symbolize his optimism as well. It really killed me to notice the only times Jimmy ever really listened to Anya were when she was saying something that would appease his ego. She showed him where the meds were and how to get them, which fueled his fantasy of being Curly's savior, and she said "we're better than our worst moments," words he clung to like a security blanket as he proceeded to destroy everything around him
A note on the flowers: Pink hibiscus represent youth, happiness, and helpfulness. All traits the Daisuke posses. The flower itself is on his shirt. It also is a flower that dies quickly after it blooms, adding to the ‘gone too soon’ element of Daisuke’s story
there's an interpretation of anya i saw... somewhere, that she has no actual problem doing her job, but asks jimmy to feed curly his painkillers as a way to stroke his ego and present herself as a "weak-minded female" that jimmy thinks she is. plus he's clearly more dangerous when bored or feeling a threat to his authority, so anya tried to appease that. she is a nurse after all.
Maybe? I think she is, in reality, capable and good at her job but i think the reason for her struggling with the administering of the pills was more that everything else helped jimmy whereas the pills we unnecessary and forced. I think the reason anya forgot to give curly his meds that one time was because he wasnt actually writhing in pain and screaming loud enough to hear it throughout the halls but jimmy was just percieving it that way.
I seem to recall hearing that the second cartoon was explicitly anti communism/unionism propaganda, so that one mostly feeds into the fact that the crew were being put into an impossible situation by the corporation. But the fact that it can also hint toward alcoholism is pretty major and a good catch.
@amyallen6863 yeah thats kinda what i meant. Its talking about all the good parts of capitalism to try and make viewers thing "oh that doesnt sound too bad!"
this game is absolutely incredible. the meaning behind everything, the symbolism, the incredibly well-executed foreshadowing, i havent seen anything this excellent in a long time.
32:30 yeah 100% she's doing this for her safety!! I've known plenty of abuse victims who are stuck interacting with their abusers (especially if they're family, friends or someone important they can't avoid) and end up sucking up to / overcompensating their niceness out of fear, and where I live, it's unfortunate but understandable. It's like, you don't want them to think it bothers you anymore, or you don't want them to know that you still feel unsafe around them, because they're going to take it out on you if you paint them as an abuser. And when there's no way out it's better to keep it that way, either so you can find the perfect time to escape or to prevent getting more hurt. It's very obvious she's lying about her "respect" for jimmy, especially when we compare how much she actually looked up to curly in the beginning. Anya is aware Jimmy knows that she told someone about the assault, but isn't sure how curly took it because curly's "i'll talk to him" shows a lack of understanding to the severity of the situation. All she knows is she told curly, then curly decided to crash the ship. She has no idea what Jimmy was told. I know if someone asked my abuser "did you assault them?" I would be terrified because I know they'd take it out on me. But she doesn't know what they talked about, so it's safer for her to be nice, especially since Curly can't help anymore. So this is her way of telling Jimmy "See? I'm fine, I didn't tell him (it was assault), he just knows I'm pregnant. I'm not trying to say bad things about you. Please don't hurt me." She held her feelings close to her chest before trying to hint the truth to Curly and eventually breaking down, and now she's hiding it again so she'll have the chance to do something later, because if she had shown hostility or fear to Jimmy he definitely wouldn't have let her be alone anywhere. She's hiding how much she's spiralling so Jimmy doesn't see her as something he has to urgently deal with. She's showing him she's not a threat. Great video btw!! I really enjoy your commentary, I'm gonna sub c: I'm really sorry about what you've been through and I'm glad to find someone who also can't stop thinking about this game 🫂like damn it sure does hurt but it's weirdly cathartic also 46:10 made me laugh out loud omg thank you
I believe its called the fawn response yeah Yeah ive kinda been there. my assault was fairly public so a lot of it was that I didnt want to make a scene yeah for sure I think its interesting as well because since we are looking through jimmy's eyes she ends up just looking a bit clueless and weak because thats how jimmy sees her
After finishing the video (which was great btw good job socks you did great) i share the same sentiment of how this game has been the biggest hyperfixation ive ever had likely because of how i relate to the characters. Daisukes character really hits home of being a innocent young adult surrounded by elders that you just have to listen to because they are your elders and if you don't listen to they'll be disappointed and when you just want someone to say their proud of you, you'll do anything even if it kills you. I genuinely don't think there will be a game as good as mouthwashing (at least for a long time)it is such a well written story that most games let alone most medias dont want to go and it doesn't spell it you for you it just puts it in front of your face and says look at this the absolute worst parts of Humanity. I feel like this game should be professionally studied and taught as a important game. Also i am loving the new videos/ variety other than just ror2 content im glad to see you try new things.
The only thing i think that holds a candle to this game is silent hill 2 which is very similar. But even then you can tell that this entire game was poured over for every little detail and its insane. Things like how curly is wearing a mechanics shirt under his uniform showing how he's able to fix things but blinded by being the captain. Ahhh i wanna talk about it more but im fine where i left it.
i think one of the reasons jimmy is super hard on anya, and constantly bringing up how shes lacking as a nurse is because he got her pregnant, and he thinks that if she had been better at her job, that wouldnt have had happened
Maybe? I think its just a classic abuser technique of devaluing everything about a person. Though i imagine he probably blames her for the pregnancy too
im not saying its justified lmao. delusional people and abusers often do. they perceive the pregnancy as a weakness of the woman or something like that
1:10:02 if you check out the sleeping bags post crash, like when grabbing the sweetner from Daisuke's sleeping bag, he has a gameboy beside his. the gameboy is likely just a representation of Daisuke. as are the hibiscus flowers seeing as he has them on his shirt (also the hibiscus could call back to the dream he mentioned of being at the beach with alcohol and girls as hibiscus are pretty exotic flowers that are known to be tropical and are also sometimes used in making cocktails) !! 1:22:00 also here i think Polle is meant to be Anya, the text is the same blue as Anya and it could be Jimmy replacing Anya with Polle because he refused to acknowledge Anya's existence, a common thing in the entire game. and when Polle asks "Why are you still concerned with HIM?" the emphasis on 'him' has always made me believe Polle is asking "Why are you still concerned with Curly, and not Anya?" ANYA is the one who deserves an apology, the one Jimmy needs to take responsibility or. not Curly, but Jimmy refuses to see that
I know. Pinned comment. I wish there were some way to make it so that people couldnt comment before seeing the linned comment lol everyone wants to tell me this. However the hibiscus plants being used in coctails i didnt know. Thafs really neat
you can ignore my second addition to my OG comment too then as it is my interpretation of the end scene with Polle, and you did write that in your comment i see now ! :D
One thing I just now noticed is that when Anya is in the void, crying after telling Curly about the pregnancy, she's flipped onto her back, breathing hard, with her knees in the air. Sound familiar? It's like she's already bracing herself for the pain of the birth
Yup, this is literally called the "fetal position" haha. Spot on. Baby or not, its a thing we all do when overwhelmed/panicking. Crawling up into a ball
I have suddenly found myself super into this game as well as an assault victim -- it grabs onto me by the ears whenever someone makes media like this. I think it is important to also say, your personal feelings about Anya are valid and true. None of us can know what someone else went through, but just because we think its "not as bad" (which ofc we cannot have been through this exact thing) the gravity is the same. Much love, I am sorry you went through that. I am happy this game has lit up something in you to start finding some peace and acceptance, it took a lot of these kinds of things for me. I wonder with Anya as a literature person, if she has a stream of her own guilt as well. When I saw the situation that led to everyone being like this, I figured she would blame herself a lot. Which is so painful to even think about. (It is obviously not her fault of course) But I am always riveted by how this game talks about power. The power women have, the power men have, the power children have, and the power cooperations have. The inherent power we're born with vs the power we're given etc.
hey thanks for commenting. I have a more detailed response to the first part of your comment in the pinned comment :) the guilt that comes with not being able to stop your abuser even if there's nothing you actually could have done is very real for sure
i loved your analysis of the game! it really helped me pieve together what happened and even come to my own conclusions that weren’t exactly yours. one of my favs is one discussed on tumblr saying how polle, throughout the whole game, represents anya. everytime curly or jimmy hallucinate in the ship and pass polle posters, it’s rhem ignoring but being ultimately unable to escape anya. jimmy never acknowledges what he did to anya, and in his subconscious, she is not even a human being to him but rather a horse (his psych eval?). he’s constnatly running from taking responsibility yet can never escape it, hence the final scene with polle. just regurgitating information i didn’t come up with myself. fantastic video!
yeah for sure, I came to the same conclusion but unfortunately I didn't get there till after this video :/ its a shame because it definitely makes sense. Thanks!
no worries! there’s technically no “wrong” interpretation! i loved your interpretation of jimmy removing curlys leg and your alternate interpretation of the flowers symbolizing the fact a crew member had died.
Haven't watch the entire thing yet, but I personally believe that the final trigger for Anya to commit suicide was Jimmy destroying the Polle statue, which many players including me think served as an alarm for anyone approaching her bed. Imagine him glaring at her afterwards, while Swansea only finds it hilarious and Daisuke was somewhere on the ship passed out from the mouthwash. I feel like at this point, beside the lack of food and the utter hopelessness of survival and what Jimmy has done to her, she knew that she can't tame him by praising him and before risking him, attempting this again, be the last survivor with her abuser and dying by his hands it is better to lock herself and die by an overdose...I really wonder if the bring up a dlc that shows thinks from her perspective, pre-crash, the pregnancy symptoms showing up the utter despair the months following the crash ect
@ManiyaVinas so a couple things... idk if i can really agree with the alarm thing. I might if it was closer but its pretty far away from her office which is where she was assumedly staying post crash. I think jimmy destroying the statue was more a projection of not being able to get to anya now that she killed herself. I think anya did what she did simply because she snapped. A lot of people in that situation dont have 1 single inciting incident, but her talk with jimmy through the door, hearing him sentence daisuke to death by the vent, it likely made her realize that there wasnt any reason left to keep trying. And secondly... i honestly dont know if i want another game, let alone one from anya's perspective. A lot of the great storytelling of the game is because its through the eyes of the antagonist. I dont think seeing things from anya's point of view would really add anything and seeing her final moments would absolutely be unnecessary.
what? if you mean during the crash that doesnt make sense, we see him sitting in the cockpit hallway. do you mean after swansea attacks him? i suppose that's possible but is there a vent in the cockpit?
Please don't compare your trauma with others. You have a right to feel as strong as you do about what you went through. Trauma isn't a competition, or something to be compared. You went through a lot, and your pain shouldn't be felt less than anyone else. ❤
8:30 Yes! I also found that I didn't agree with Jimmy's summary. Just because you reached your potential in one place and want to move on, it doesn't invalidate the whole journey. People leave long-term relationships, jobs, studies, move places, and the change is always scary but a lot of good can come from it. Especially, considering how exhausting and dangerous it is to ship things in space. 11:51 It seems to be a video from a meat processing factory, with carcasses hanging around. I haven't watched too closely, with the topic of the game I find this video kinda disturbing. Similarly to the video with a child eating in the section when Jimbo feeds Curly his leg. 22:01 It is never actually said that she was SAed, and we don't even immediately get a name. Which actually makes it even more powerful (and maybe realistic? can't be easy thing to talk about, considering the response might be very dismissive if not outright accusing), the player gets to piece 2 and 2 together on their own and reveal the answer of what kind of person we are actually playing as. 29:10 Oh, I can understand. I have never been as obsessed as with this game. Watching dozen of playthroughs and analyses helped a lot. I played on my own. But if I see someone new talking, I check them out for their perspective. I think it is because of this hopelessness. How easily it could have been avoided. And how horrifically realistic it is. And how game doesn't give a solution, it just ends. So, in every video I watch, I look for an answer. I even spend an hour retelling the plot to my mom. And I did get the validation from her. I am right this story is horrible as much as it is amazing. We all are right. This game raises important topics of the evils of abusers and bystanders, corporate hell, and the meaning of life. And I just hope it helps someone in real life to feel seen and less alone, to point out injustice, and to be a little more caring. 1:10:10 Gameboy and weights were near Daisuke's bed. Pink hibiscus is on his shirt. The other interpretation could be that these are things to commemorate Daisuke, and Jimy still cannot look at it for too long (it has the same visual effect as turning back). I like to think of this whole section of hallucinations as his own mind and consciousness trying to reach him and make him see the error in his ways. But it doesn't really work. Not only is it too late, anyways, but Jiymm by "giving away" the cryo pod seems to entirely forgive himself, wash it all away. 1:11:14 I never noticed those gravestones before. Nothing is wrong with game theories! Even if they don't really match the developers' vision, once the game is out, it is ours to interpret. I liked some of other people's interpretations, like Jimm's "birthday party" wasn't just him seeking recognition, but also an attempt to replay the moment when "everything went wrong" (according to jimbo of course; his crime and his child were already there). 1:19:02 I know that by this point anyone recognises what kind of person he is. But the way he says "we were trapped" makes my blood boil. He felt powerless, so he took it on Anya, physically and verbally, more than once. He felt hopeless and afraid, so he crashed the ship hoping everyone would die with him. And he couldn't even do that properly, extending everyone's misery for extra 5!! months. Oh, but that was an accident, he just slipped a little, oopsie. Dang, what a person😡 And as Swansea said, he doesn't even see that! 1:34:57 This is probably the only thing I can't agree on. She can do her job. We are introduced to Anya through other people's perspectives, so it clouds our judgment. Jimvo is extremely dismissive and hateful towards her. Curly is more understanding, but he shouldn't have done evaluation for her. Jimmm was the problem, not her; he made her feel uncomfortable and unsafe on purpose. Curly could have just been present for his phych eval to make sure he doesn't verbally harass Anya and cooperates. After the crush, she does struggle with Curly's meds, but she is also pregnant (which makes people extra nauseous) and her discomfort might come from the fact that she has to force the pills down Curly's throat (possibly reminding her of what she experienced at Jimms' hands). She seemingly had no painkillers in form of solutions to give them to Curly through the drip (as it should be), she had limited first-aid kit, limited access to clean water (in the recipes it was written that shower water is not fit for consumption, was it even clean enough for severe burn patient??). Somehow, she kept a nearly terminal patient alive for 5 months (maybe Curly's state was exaggerated by Jimm, since it's his POV, but still). She gave him his pills every day, several times a day for 5 months, and Jimco did it twice and had breakdown (maybe he helped of screen, but considering Daisuke was in charge of food, Jimko must have spend 5 months walking around and feeling important). Yes, judging by the posters in medbay, she struggled with anxiety, but in the extremely stressful situation after the crash she was very functional. She was the one who gave Jimmcy all of the tasks after all. He knew nothing (possibly not even how to pilot). Probably, one of the reason why Swansea decided to kill Daisuke, because he knew that without Anya it was entirely impossible for him to recover. 1:38:19 As for your final thoughts, it was a very thought out piece. I enjoyed watching it. Just because you got to play the game later and took time to make this video doesn't decrease it's value. It was worth making and worth watching, because it contained your own thoughts. My comment, on the other hand, was amalgamation of what I have seen in others and not really a lot of personal thinking. I am privileged to have never experienced something like Anya (at least, so far), but I want to know what's happening around me. This game and your essay is a good way of learning about life. I am glad to know you are moving on with your life and not letting bigots and abusers define you! I really hope I am not overstepping with this ridiculously long thing of a comment. Thank you for the video💜
- that would make sense. Jimmy is just so short-sighted and selfish that he assumes curly moving to bigger and better would mean leaving his old life behind. - This makes sense and I agree. - Yeah im aware it wasn't mentioned directly, but as someone who's gone through this song and dance before (not that you need this experience to know about it), it shows an excellent perspective of what someone on the outside of the situation might think. She might not have said it directly, but victims often don't use words like "I was sexually assaulted" or something like that. She confided in Curly that Jimmy hurt her but because he couldn't understand the severity of the situation like most people do, he let her behind. - Yeah theres is no real 1 answer to this game except the realization and lesson to every player that these things happen. they might be in space in a larger-than-life situation, but that doesn't make what they're going through any less real. - Some people have said this and I don't blame myself for not noticing that. a lot to keep track of yeah. - I wasn't saying that I don't like it being a game theory as in a theory about a game, i was saying that it felt like what they'd do on the game theorists show. I like that show, but I often find it misses the point of a story by looking way too into the secrets and numbers of things in the game. It sucks in my opinion and I hope to god that they don't touch this game. - yupppp - I think you may have misunderstood what i meant here. All i have to say is that I think curly should have conducted an evaluation on Anya more for himself than for her. seeing how she felt on paper might have given him a better perspective on all that than spoken word ever could. I more meant that she was struggling to do her job, not that she fully couldn't. I should have let up on the hyperbole. I do like your point that the game makes it look like she's being kind of useless because its only through the eyes of Jimmy. - Thanks! Something somethings... I have to believe our worst moments don't make us monsters. I'm not ready to talk about my assault in full detail yet, i think, but that feeling of looking for any hope that they might be a good person hit very close to home. I and a lot of other victims often don't even realize we were victims until after the fact and since what happened to us was so unreal, we often try to find excuses for it to make ourselves feel better. It's no fun at all. Glad you enjoyed
@@SocksNeedsHelp 22:01 I hope it didn't come off as I was doubting her. It was a great way to portray the situation, to add gravity to it, and I couldn't not point it out. 1:10:10 Yes! Some things are too pixelated, some are just to the side, some flash by to quickly. A lot is added for atmosphere and worldbuilding. I think this is a game that was meant to be played more than once. It is inevitable that we focus on characters rather then walk around and look at the posters and books around the ship. 1:11:14 Ah, I didn't know about game theorist. I see your point. The sum of the parts is greater or something? At least, if they do, you don't have to watch how they pick the game apart to meaningless atoms the ship was built from. :) 1:34:57 Yes, I misunderstood you. I guess I like Anya, I love her potential that was destroyed by one little jealous man. In after the crash sequences, game deliberately drives the player to be annoyed at her and player has to unlearn that. I was too defensive, sorry! But yeah, Curly failed her in so many ways. His behaviour is somewhat surprising to me. If he'd done long flights before, he should have the experience! Or is Jimbo a relatively new addition that clouds his judgement? Is Anya new? But then they say that only Daisuke is a newcomer. Or was he only good at keeping peace and all black pixels of tensions and complaints were completely ignored? This way company would favour him for good "team work" and people who were uncomfortable would just leave. -And people like Jim don't even care. Walked all over the place and left imprints of his shoes everywhere. I like to think that Anya would have gotten to a better place in life if she wasn't stuck in a middle of nowhere with no food, no hope of rescue, and increasingly deranged individual who she had to manage. She wasn't just her hopelessness, fear, and insecurities, she was even more a beautiful sum of everything in her, and she barely got to show it. Not that others deserved it, of course. However, Curly did have a heart-to-heart conversation with Jim, Daisuke spoke more personally when he was on the floor drunk, Swansea had his moment to speak out, but for Anya it was just a few seconds before her death and we didn't even see her, she was ignored in favour of saving Curly. This all was just so unfair. Thank you for reply💜
This was not fun in the slightest but that's a good thing. This was such a roller-coaster of emotions and I really don't think I could've sat through it if it wasn't for Socks putting it the way she did. The interludes were a very good addition given the subjects letting us take a step back to not get too sucked into the negative emotions the game and video brings up. Well done Socks. PS: I cannot commend you enough on being willing to talk even in passing about what happened to you and I know it means nothing from a random person on the internet but you have such courage for even mentioning it.
Yeah i figured. im prone to getting sucked into those stories of misery and it's something I actually struggle with myself. its like doom scrolling without the scrolling lol. Im happy it helped. yeah... im working on it. I only now just started talking about my assault and it still feels kind of wrong to do. spent a lot of time being ignored for it so its hard to talk about now without feeling like its bothering other people.
@@SocksNeedsHelpHey I’m commenting this late, but I just wanted to say that I understand your feelings. I was s* assaulted and for a long time I felt ashamed talking about it to anyone. I hope that you are able to heal and find someone that you can feel safe to speak to about it. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.
I haven't seen anyone talk about the importance of Anya considering to take the mouthwash She'd abstained due to her pregnancy and by considering it, she's giving up not only on the idea of salvation, but on her efforts to keep the baby healthy, which give more power to her final decision
yeah no kidding. theres also no proof she ever actually drank the mouthwash as far as im aware. the proof she's willing to care about this baby just shows how good of a person she is
I didn't see anyone talking about it when I skimmed through the comments, but just incase no one did, the video at 11:50 that you couldn't understand was (to my interpretation) footage of two guys in a freezer with meat on hooks. Judging by the helmets, probably in a meat packing factory which....WELL
Yeah, that's what I've been told, and I think i see it. Could be an interesting comparison as to how they are all effectively just meat on the ship. The 2 workers being jimmy and daisuke since thats how they both saw the rest of the crew. Just a body they had responibility over.
Finally made it to the end of the video and I wanna thank you for committing to putting out this video despite others also doing the same for this game, and I hope you're healing well after what happened to you. I just came from your Edith Finch video, actually, and the way you talk through events in the games and potential meanings is very thorough, and I love that you're able to admit when you don't fully understand something. You already earned yourself a follow from the last video, but this one has definitely cemented it :]
I personally don't think Swansea every actually went after Jimmy. I think Jimmy hated how he was being talked about, reacted by finding the gun, and then afterwards tried to act like a victim. I think that's why Swansea is shown to be shot tied up in the chair when actually truthfully talking about his life.
@bittersweet4487 i kinda agree but showing jimmy being attacked by swansea 3 diff times seems like a bit much to not be at least somewhat in reality. My theory is that jimmy instigated it with the gun and swansea charged him since he had nothing to lose. That or he actually never attacked jimmy and all the times swansea attacks us are jimmy trying to rationalize what he did.
@@SocksNeedsHelp That's fair, I definitely can imagine Jimmy instigating it. I was wondering if maybe Jimmy thought through lies that he could tell people, and it seeped into the breakdown/purgatory he's going through
I really enjoyed your analysis! You made connections that I haven't heard talked about before. I would argue that Jimmy never takes responsibility for his actions, not truly. He never acknowledges what he did to Anya. Hence Polle's line at the end "Why are you still so concerned with *him*?" He's fixated on Curly, partly because he thought he wanted Curly's life. His apologies feel more like he's sorry he got caught, rather than actually taking responsibility for how he destroyed the lives of four people. He never expresses remorse for the SA. The only thing he regrets is that it led to a pregnancy that will expose his crime. He never sees Anya as a person, which is why she's represented by the company mascot at the end. In the end, he never learned anything. I also find it interesting that the fetus is a monstrous form of the company mascot. It is as much a product Jimmy's cruelty as it is the companies neglect.
Yeah I totally agree. I think what I meant by he's finally "taking responsibility" is that in the end he finally made 1 "good" decision of saving curly instead of himself. He isn't actually better now, he just finally did the bare minimum
@@SocksNeedsHelp Indeed. I feel like even that act is a selfish one. He's saving Curly so he can be the hero he's always imagined himself to be. He's a narcissist to the very end. I think we can all agree that Jimmy is a piece of shit and we hate him. haha.
It's always the subtle storytelling elements that have me revisting this game over and over again... the game board, the gameboy, weights and flowers really just showing that Daiske was just a kid, and so much more. If Swans think their young are too sick or too injured, they mercy kill them. The text colors for each characters... Anya and Polle's text are the same... When J*mmy has his Judgement sequence, theres visuals of Curly Daiske and Swansea but not for Anya. But what if Polle is the stand in for Anya and shows not just how much J*mmy doesnt see Anya, but how much he dehumanizes her. Like horses are a vessel for our communication needs(Pony Express), Anya was nothing but a vessel for his selfish pleasures, and (unwanted) child.
oh my god i never noticed how curly asked anya “who would she do it with” instead of “who did it to her” i just thought it was him being careless with his words it really shows how one sentence can change the entire narrative
finally a mouthwashing video essay that isn't just "I bet you didn't realize the actual dark story behind this game!!!!" such a good video and I'm not even done with it! great work!!
1:09:39 these are actually the items next to daisuke's bed on the ship ! (And a neat thing outside of the map is all of the hands actually having a mini daisuke below the map !)
45:15 I’ve heard other people theorize that Swansea breaking the sunrise window screen with the axe foreshadows Daisuke’s death. The only ray of sunshine or hope in this helpless situation breaks too, as Swansea puts Daisuke out of his misery with said axe😢
That would make sense but i feel like its gotta be deeper than that.... idk its just one of the many very well written parts of this game that take a while to sink in
@SocksNeedsHelp very true! That’s honestly one of my favorite parts of this game, I love how the major parts of the story aren’t told to you through the dialogue, but rather the through experience. You really have to think things over, and this game really makes you look twice at the tiny things (ex: the broken vent, Anya’s books, and the sorry game). And getting to view the story from Jimmy’s twisted perspective first, really forces you to fight your initial perspective of the whole crew and their situation!
This and Soma definitely stuck with me for a long time. Soma for the existential questions of what it means to be human and whether we can accept multiple futures of us (bad and good) and how those are STILL valid. Mouthwashing for how two people can fuck up multiple people's lives; Jimcrackballssobloserpos for being a complete POS and Curly for enabling his POS friend until it is far too late for him to stop him. I have a lot of feelings for Curly and most are negative but I have sympathy for him. I don't believe he deserved his fate; no one deserves their fate. Not ever that asshole (because his fate should have been MUCH MUCH worse). However, while Jiminyfrackasass is the one person to blame for EVERYTHING that happens (hell he has a hand in what happened to Anya because he's a monster and his existence makes everything worse), Curly was the ONE person who had enough influence to stop Jimmy. To reign him in. To do SOMETHING. But Curly did nothing and when he tried it was not enough. He should've never recommended Jackholeloserbum for the job. He should've taken Anya more seriously when Jickwit wouldn't take the psych eval seriously. He should've not a good Captain but a good man and emboldened the other men to protect Anya. He didn't. When he had legs and arms he did nothing. Now he is unable to do anything. That's karma. Something that a certain Jackass would not experience. Fuck that guy.
@@SocksNeedsHelp The classic "Missing step". Everyone keeps mentioning the missing step in the staircase, but also downplays it so much they are "shocked pikachu' face when someone (Anya and Daisuke) trip on the step. At least Curly was a baked and skinned potato for Daisuke's run in with the missing step. He has that excuse. But Anya? Curly dropped the ball there...and he should've just removed the shitty staircase anyways.
This video was amazing 10/10 great job it really helps the viewer (me) understand the game much better!😎👍 Thank you for making this video have a good day!
i love this analysis, and i love how you explained everything. I genuinely think Daisuke & Anya were the most tragic deaths, both made me SOB. Thinking about Daisuke still brings tears to my eyes. I also think it's so interesting how Curly's eye always follows you no matter where you walk, almost like even though he was blind to what was happening before the crash, now he's forced to watch it all unfold. This game is so beautiful and so horrifying. also eta: idk if you've heard this 800 times already and im sorry if you have, but the coffin actually has Daisuke in it! you can only see it if you use like a free camera or smth like that tho i dont remember
I think there’s a lot to be said about Jimmy. Not that he’s morally complex or anything, he’s a rat all the same, but he’s shown to be a rat in very interesting ways. And I’m impressed at the Wrong Organ team’s ability to show it in nearly every interaction he has: His lack of power in the ship, his subordinate role to Curly, I think it’s obvious that’s the impetus for his various cruelties, and the very reason he carries out such specific cruelties. He shoves the medicine down Curly’s throat, violently. Now, I don’t think this is necessarily because he hates Curly. But rather, he enjoys taking agency away from Curly. You have to force his mouth open every time, and I think that’s very intentional. You see that even more in the sequence with Curly and the valves, where Jimmy literally takes control of every minute part of Curly’s digestive tract, taking even more of his bodily autonomy, of his agency. There’s also the incident with Daisuke where he violently disinfects him, which is totally unnecessary. Jimmy never had to be violent with him, but it’s the only way he can conceive interacting with another person. Even at the end, he forces Curly into the cryo chamber based only on his own delusion that he *thinks* Curly wants it, taking away Curly’s agency further. You can also see this in smaller ways: How Jimmy declares himself captain “for better or worse” without anybody else’s input, how Jimmy makes unanimous decisions without asking, how he enjoys bossing Daisuke around. Even when he puts on a front of magnanimity, it’s always to get something he wants without giving others a choice in the matter. And then, of course, there’s what he did to Anya. There’s no need to dwell, but quite honestly… what Jimmy did is one of the most violating things one can do to a person. I think that epitomizes what he is at his core. (Banger video btw, I just thought I’d add my own little bit of analysis since it didn’t get touched on as much. But it was good stuff!
@ I’m excited to see that future video!! The characters and symbolism of Mouthwashing are really deep and layered, and it’s really fun to analyze imo. Well, maybe ‘fun’ is the wrong word for it. Intellectually stimulating? Rewarding? Cathartic, even? The writing is just really good. Up there with SIGNALIS for modern narratives in games (both horror games too, what’s up with that lol).
@@SocksNeedsHelp It’s peak, honestly. Take it from someone absolutely obsessed with Signalis (actually working on a STAR cosplay rn), if you liked Mouthwashing you will most likely enjoy Signalis. It’s a longer, less focused experience considering it’s basically resident evil in terms of gameplay (lots of backtracking and puzzle solving, plus you kinda gotta go out of your way for lore and little details sometimes). Just uhhh two tips: Don’t forget the Revolver or your promise.
In the bit about Jimmy forcing Curly's mouth open, you even get an achievement calling you a monster for playing with his mouth opening and closing over and over. Of course it's a funny jest but it's also true of Jimmy for him to do that in the moment
By and far the best analysis of this game ive seen, nothing else has even come close. The amount of scrutiny of every characters actions, reasoning and most importantly using their interactions with one another to double check those results really brought a whole new level to the story! It went from an interesting, unique horror game to a honestly scarily relatable story. Can't give you enough kudos for your work! Hopefully this lets you put the fixation to rest, and if not maybe a series of shorts covering any missed points you wanted to address would be a good move? Either way, while I don't have any interest or relation to Risk of Rain, ill certainly be subbing and keeping an eye out for more of your diverse posts! Certainly seems better to throw in whatever interests you so you don't get burnt out at any time. It's more about the execution and results than what the topic is really, but a big popular title certainly can hook new viewers to your channel. Oh! And absolutely no worries taking longer than most to cover the game, lets things breathe a bit. After all every video I've seen on the game barely scratches the surface of the depth you reached, the consequences of rushing it out to catch a fad wave eh? Now, off to go live my Swansea arc, god help me.
thank you so much for this comment it really means a lot. I honestly think i could've done better and am already planning on doing an updated character analysis of sorts it hasn't really but thats alright haha yeah im def gonna work on some more stuff. its finals week in college for me rn so im very very busy but ill hopefully have something non ror2 related out by christmas
@@SocksNeedsHelpI can't see how, bit by all means shoot for the sun, if you think you can do better im happy to see it! Ive seen like 5 videos on this games story and characters and none really went much deeper than surface level, simply summarizing the story and such. I had a similar issue with SOMA actually, I loooove the moral, existential and transhumanist questions of the game but nearly every video I found was just a story synopsis really. Funnily enough same day I found your video here I found someone who really did that game justice too! Algorithm put in some work for once and suggested TWO fire creators. Well by all means, feel free to crank out more content on it until it does, I seriously doubt anyone would mind hah Oooh, I know how that goes! Absolute best of luck on the home stretch! You're a damn beast for maintaining this upload schedule AND tackling college, kudos! Long as you're not overworking and getting too stressed eh? You got this, step by step, day by day. No sweat!
I was super confused for a wile because wile I was watching I noticed how few likes this video has, until now, at 1:27:15 I noticed that it's because it was posted like, two hours ago, and yea now that explains a lot. Great video, I also love this game, and Im happy to see you doing more than just Risk of Rain 2 stuff, Im excited to see what kind of content you will make in the future, don't forget to drink some water
I just discovered your channel and binged both this and your Zoochosis analysis. Always love a good thought provoking video essay to encourage exercising media literacy and that's just what I got. Good job on the vid and hope to see more!
The algorithm sent me your way after watching Minaxa's video, and I'm glad it did. Excellent video from top to bottom. You also were the first person Ive seen mention the position of the axe in Curly's chair in that sequence.
I think Swansea breaks the screen because he is so sick of the illusion that the ship is actually functional and the situation has an ending that has the hope of a tomorrow. The game has intent behind everything, even the small things.
i can see that being the case. and idk if I agree tho, i think there are some things that aren't symbolism and that makes it better. makes it feel more real.
Thank you for giving me and probably others a way to experience the story of this game, as someone who isn't fortunate enough to be able to play it for myself. Very touching story and I'm very thankful for your video, I did get 8 ads on the finally watch session for some reason but it's fine haha, I'm happy knowing that the revenue is most likely going to someone who deserves it (:
You gotta get an adblocker homie! Any youtuber would prefer you have an anjoyabke watching experience than them getting paid the like... 30 cents from your view haha
my take is that curley represents the benign evil of corporate management he knows of the horrendous crime jimmy dose but rarther than make paper work works his best to smothe it over and put it behind partly because he personally knows jimmy.jimmy, on the other hand is malignant abuse in the workplace someone who hurts others around them and dosnt see the pain they cause and is so obsessed with control and power but dosnt want to have to deal with the obligations that come with it
one thing i think polle primarily represents anya. jimmy says hes sexually attracted to cartoon horses. jimmy destroys the polle in the rec room. the horse hallucination comes right after them discovering anyas death. polles text is even in blue during the ending dialogue, and it makes more sense if its read as anya (anya is likely quite a bit younger than jimmy). the responsibility sequence ends with anya herself. i think jimmy cannot properly face what he did to anya because it is completely unjustifiable, even in his own warped perception. not only that, he also objectifies her. he understands assaulting her was wrong in a way youd recognize assaulting a horse is wrong. thats just my two cents
thats a really interesting idea and I kinda like it. it makes a lot of sense for him to be taking his anger out on the statue since he can't assault anya anymore with her locking herself in the office.
I think that the screen always being sunset after the crash might mean that Anya loses the hope and comfort that she will be able to go home after everything
@Astr3-Th3-ALl3n that and whats interesting is that during her final part of judgement, you can see the nighttime window screen behind polle, who represents her. It sort of solidifies that idea of her eventual end being a peaceful escape.
@ Thank you for replying! I think that’s a really interesting detail and I’m kinda surprised that I didn’t notice it tbh I’ve been playing and watching lore stuff for weeks lol ( sorry if the sentence seems weird I couldn’t find the right emoji)
11:00 - ish /// i have a different read on this that's vaguely interesting i think. to me this is an extension of this game's commentary on capitalism. it's showing how the ruling class benefits from bigotry, or all the various -isms. it distracts the unhappy working class from working towards freeing themselves from the bourgeoisie by directing their anger at poor material conditions instead towards an unproductive and harmful place. a clear example is trump's whole schtick of blaming immigrants for everything going wrong, directing the untapped anger of sad people towards a specific group of people. it's easy to point fingers and that's often what the ruling class will do in order to stop the forming of class consciousness. sorry for the political autism rant and definitely explaining my point very poorly i just think this game's commentary on late-stage capitalism is--while not as much as the rest of the game of course--very interesting
thats a good point. since there's actually 5 men in the show it could support this further. the 5th is lying on the bench asleep, its jimmy ignoring the effects of those things
Historically illiterate take. The "and make mine freedom" cartoon being sampled from here is cold war propaganda extolling the virtues of capitalism, the 'ism' being espoused as a utopic solution to everyone's problems and the "imported double-talk" is communism. Mouthwashing is using this clip first to talk about the ways corporate propaganda enshrines the legitimacy of its structures and sanitises them - the Polle mascot offering simplified moral lessons as if talking down to a child which covers the workplace abuses and unsafe inhumane conditions selected for because abusing one's workers to the maximum is also a maximising of profits. Note that only one of the characters depicted is actually proletarian - the factory worker, as opposed to the petit-bourgeois landowning farmer, the bourgeois factory owner, and the elected official of the political class - so the premise that its representative of divisions within the proletariat fails. By invoking this propaganda from Jimmy's perspective, its showing also how Jimmy's internalisation of competitive capitalistic mindset wherein all accomplishment must be compared against others, eg Curly, and power has to rest alone in the hands of a privileged class (see how force in the form of the gun is monopolised by the captain as well as the capacity to reward or give out leisure in the form of the sweetener through the code scanner) is directly contributing to the tragedy - Curly being able to make unilateral decisions about who to trust set Jimmy up to get away with his misdeeds, Jimmy going unchecked once in the captain's position allowed him to send things further downhill, the corporate policy of collective punishment for "team disunity" and the financial incentives on the proletariat to not rock the boat because of their precarious financial situation makes Curly further unwilling to actually address Jimmy as the problem he is, etc. There's also an irony being set up in the dichotomy between alcohol as disinfectant and alcohol as vice which informs the use of anticommunist propaganda that relies on the imagery of drinkable tonic: communism is 'vice' in that its a discouraged indulgence from on high which 'hurts productivity', but its also an ability to treat wounds, IE, to actually 'take responsibility' and 'fix it'. Similarly, you can read a dual meaning of 'escaping reality' into the presentation of communism here: while the mouthwash is used as 'an escape from reality' IE falling into delusion and refusing to address one's actual circumstances, the communism that's the other side of that symbolic coin is also 'an escape from reality' in that its the ability to acknowledge and change those circumstances by collective effort, which you can read alongside Swansea's dual position as the one who falls off the wagon hardest while also presenting the frankest look at himself in his conversation before death with Jimmy, taking responsibility, and being able to actually set up the cryopod that would give one person the greatest chance at making it out.
I have a lil thingie idk about the feast thing where curly is where the cake is :] See cakes are yknow sweet, a treat, something good to just have and I think the reason he was put there (aka curly replacing the cake) is because Jimmy sees being the captain as a sweet, a treat something he WANTS to have so desperately til he realizes it wasnt as enjoyable as he thought he was so desperate for the treat, he never thought of the stomach ache afterwards :]
thats a good point. same reason the force feeding section is there, he wants to get rid of that responsibility now that he found out he didn't like it but that's not something you can do
The weights and Gameboy are objects that were Daisuke's. They're by his bedroll throughout the entire game. Also while interesting to think that the flowers are in reference to all the dead crewmembers, I personally believe that they are intrinsically tied to Daisuke again. Being a reference to his fun loving, beach boy attitude and even his unbuttoned (implied to be) Hawaiian shirt.
37:26 My personal theory as to what Anya and Swansea were talking about was having Daisuke be the one leaving in the pod. In the same scene Swansea replies to Jimmy's interrogation of Anya which can be seen as him stopping him from interacting with her. In an earlier scene - the Curly birthday scene - Anya and Swansea seemed friendly, her being the only one knowing Swansea actually really enjoys the cake. In a later scene, when Daisuke dies it's very strongly implied that Swansea knows that Jimmy assulted Anya. Swansea was also the one to request that Anya be there for opening the cargo. This implies to me that despite Swansea's demeaning way of talking about Anya they were friends or at least friendly, and since they were both the only responsible people on the ship they were discussing what to do with the pod. Anya, while valuing her own wellbeing didn't have anything going for her back on earth, and Swansea was the same, and Curly was very likely to die in general. I think they both mutually decided to somehow get Daisuke in the pod. They didn't tell Jimmy about it, because he's the scum of the earth, and they didn't tell Daisuks because most likely he would've disagreed or told Jimmy since he's naive and kind.
So i agree thats a good idea, but swansea is not a good person. He may have had the ability to help and actually took some steps, but he also could have stopped jimmy multiple times in the story. I do agree thats what that convo was about tho
@SocksNeedsHelp I don't think Swansea is a good person. I don't think he's a bad person (simply because there was nothing bad enough he did for me to characterize that way), but I do think he's done harmful things. It wasn't my intention to sound like I thought he was, but I think it just came of that way because it so strongly contrasts with Jimmy who hadn't done a single good thing ever. Also I am autistic so I apologize if I implied things unintentionally, I'm bad with tone.
The thing that frustrates me most about this game, or more specifically the story, is that all of it was very preventable. It felt kinda very dramatic like all curly had to was take some action against jimmy but he sat and did nothing. One story plot I think of in my head is that if curly and Anya told the others what jimmy did, then they could’ve just knocked him out somehow and put him in the freezing chamber thing until they finish the delivery and then boom. Curly wouldn’t have to harm his friend and no one would have died. My point is, it honestly does not matter because he just didn’t attempt anything.
Anya’s assault is something he should have never taken lightly. Even though he probably did not know to what the extent jimmy was insane and capable/willing to harm others, he knows that someone who sexually abuses others is someone with no self control and is greedy to the extent of ignoring someone’s autonomy
@ଘlଓ-g1w honestly? You'd be surprised how much people can be blinded by friendship and misinformation. Its honestly really bad and I can attest to it. It's frustrating on purpose because its real
The way I've seen male lets players have to be told about Anya's SA vs every female lets player getting it from the lounge convo really says something about gendered violence and how people discuss it.
Clearing some things up:
- I am in no way, shape, or form defending Curly's actions. I understand that the beginning of his analysis at the end makes it look that way, but that's not how it is. My stance on Curly is that he is a good man with all the right intentions but importantly, NONE of those intentions are utilized to any extent. His inaction lead to the ultimate downfall of the entire ship, even if Jimmy was the one doing all the evil.
- Referring to my own sexual assault as "less bad" than Anya's makes it sound like I believe that some assaults are worse than others, I do not believe this. Yes, the outcome of an assault may be different from another but at the end of the day the effects on the victim are still the same and no one's experience should be devalued because they suffered less physical harm.
- I am now aware that what I thought was a sorry board in the lounge is actually a different game entirely in which the middle is actually the end goal of the game, not the corners. I initially assumed it to be the other way around because it is commented that Daisuke is very lucky in the game implying that he would be the one winning.
- I know what "how fish is made" is and am considering looking into it. However, since Anya's story is the one that got me so into this game, I'm not super enthusiastic about doing a deep dive on Curly, a character I don't really care about.
- Thank you to the dozens of you who have pointed out that the weights, flowers, and gameboy were all referencing Daisuke's belongings that could be found next to his sleeping bag. I missed that, but I don't really blame myself as, by that time in the game, there is a lot of visual clutter especially in the lounge. I don't blame myself for missing something that could've easily been mistaken as just a prop.
- I now understand that Polle at the end of Judgement is way more likely meant to be Anya, not the child, given it's text color being the same as Anya's. It would make a lot more sense that the "final" part of the atonement was headed by her. The mountain of mouthwash bottles signifying how hard he tried to silence her, standing at the top and conquering it all in the end. that final line being Anya telling him "if you're really so ready to take responsibility, why do you think that has anything to do with curly?"
Anyways, I might update this again in the future, but for now, thanks for the support this video has gotten so far. I can only hope that it continues on the trend it has right now. I think I was a little right in my final thoughts about losing some views due to being late to talking about the game and people like Risley and Minaxa already doing videos like this (which is in no way a jab at them! they're videos are just as worthy of views as mine lmao, this is entirely a fault of my own), but I'll have to live with that. Something Something- comparison is the thief of joy.
a good man would not defend rape. go fuck yourself.
why do i even bother sometimes.
Sorry for schizoposting lol
I wasnt talking to you lol
@@SocksNeedsHelpAwww it’s okay… don’t let the negativity get to you… you did a great job with this video!
the fact that jimmy knew how to make a spiked drink and that “they’ll be fine and not remember anything when they wake up” is truly horrific
@SapphicFlora I DIDNT EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT EW
Fuuuuck dude that is just… damn🤦🏿♂️
That begs the question: What kind of environment did that Asshole Jimbo either had grown up in/with and/or how did it affect his adult Life to the point where he's practically comfortable with spiking people's drinks here,for example here,honestly...!? And how'd he LEAST get away with some of it,not all-but some here,honestly..?
What the hell did he DO before he eventually got the job from Curly here anyways, Buddy..?
@@SocksNeedsHelp WAIT WAIT EVEN MORE. When Jimmy gets the extra medical cabinet open, there is a TON of paracetamol, but ONLY 1 bottle of isopropyl. There is no way that Pony Express packed that much paracetamol but only one bottle of disinfectant. SO, you can assume that JIMMY HAD ALREADY BEEN USING THE ISOPROPYL BEFORE THE CRASH. especially because Jimmy could get to it without needing to get into medical, which is probably locked at night.
Poor Anya...
Oh my god that little twat
fun fact! the real-life pony express delivery service that ran in the late 1800s actually required their riders to carry a christian bible for each ride, and all the workers were forced to sign a pledge promising not to drink alcohol, curse, or to fight with their coworkers. i just think it's neat that the tulpar crew completely decimates all of those promises :)
Thats really interesting!
yeah thanks to my childhood cartoon / comic series 'Lucky Luke' i know what the pony express is lol
Also mainly hired from orphans and people society wouldnt miss. It was deadly work. And they knew it. That if you died. It was unlikely they would be able to recover your body...
I think the 8 gravestones may represent how Jimmy has killed each of the crew twice: once in crashing the ship and then again by his own hands.
That could be an option
After Daisuke dies, Swansea says that he doesn't care if Jimmy survives or not, so him attacking Jimmy wouldn't make sense, the best explanation I've found is that Swansea never attacked Jimmy, it was a delusion created by Jimmy to explain why he killed him, in his mind Swansea was a killer that was waiting for everyone to die so he could save his own ass, a man that killed Daisuke and was going to do the same thing to Jimmy, he created two scenarios, one where he gets attacked after getting the gun for "self-defense" and one where he gets attacked while being completely defenseless and while trying to take control of the ship, when in reality Swansea was just sitting in the chair, waiting for his end.
@@alexandrert8252 i like that idea and i think i agree. Im thinking of doing an update video and I might write this down for it
by far the best interpretation of those scenes for me i think! it never made sense for me, it would be just like him to take swanseas speech as physical attacks....
I know I’m late to reply but this is the first time I’ve seen this interpretation and it makes so much sense. I was having a hard time figuring out why it didn’t seem like Swansea was bound in the last dialogue scene. I thought if he truly was out to kill Jimmy in a fit of rage then he should be bound to the chair. But he was just sitting. It makes me so sad to think that he was so devoid of hope after losing Daisuke that he just accepts being executed. Absolutely tragic.
Fun fact, there's actually a prequel that tells us a LOT about Curly's inner thoughts beyond what we get in Mouthwashing. It's called How Fish Is Made, and it really goes into Curly's own mental problems that he really should of mentioned on the psyche eval, and what he's thinking while he lays on that medical bed. I'm not nearly qualified to properly break down that fever dream of a game but I'll attempt it.
A very important part is that Curly doesn't just feel like his life is stagnant and he wants change, he also thinks his life CAN'T change. He doesn't believe in his choices mattering anymore. The entire game is about the illusion of choice, and considering it's supposed to be something in Curly's head, we can assume he truly believes that no matter what, things will stay the same. His view is probably the most nihilistic, and he decides inaction is his best option since actually doing things won't change the outcome anyways. That's why he not only let Jimmy on the ship but suggested he take the job, in the end it'll all be the same. He didn't push to stop Daisuke from joining the crew, he didn't help Anya in her time of need, he didn't do anything because even if he did it'd just end the same. Though based on how the game portrays it and what as been said, Curly finally becomes disillusioned after the crash. He takes responsibility for his decisions that led them here. He finally realizes that his choices matter... Far too late for his choices to matter anymore.
I also want to point out that Curly says "...You know. He joined because of me." which makes me believe that he does not forgive Jimmy after the crash, Jimmy just thinks Curly still trusts him because he's delusional. Curly blaming himself means he regrets getting Jimmy to join, and that doesn't sound like forgiveness, though it could be Curly deferring the blame from Jimmy to himself, I'm not entirely sure.
But admittedly I could have some of this info wrong or misinterpreted things, so if someone who can explain things better, feel free to correct me
Ill maybe look into it. ive heard about it but idk. i like this game mostly for anya and daisukes story and dont care much for curly's story
HOW FISH IS MADE IS A PREQUEL??? I DIDNT KNOW THAT! I KNEW ABOUT IT BUT I NEVER PLAYED IT OMG I GOTTA NOW
well it came out before mouthwashing so its just the first game. i believe its a standalone story with the MW stuff on the side
@SocksNeedsHelp How fish is made is a standalone game but it's DLC ties into mouthwashing and had some thematic ties to responsibility, along with featuring Curly
I'll think about it
I loved the analysis but just small little nit picks:
-Jimmy crashes the ship not because he's going to be a father and doesn't want that but because a baby was absolute proof of his crime. And that it would ruin his life. So he ruins everyone else's to take them down with him. (This is a small but very common thing being said around the event and it irks me to no end.)
-anya praising Jimmy is a fawn response. It's her way of keeping herself safe and alive. There's not just fight or flight but fawn as well. She's stuck in a ship with no escape from her abuser. She's fawning to attempt to survive.
Everything about this game has me obsessed. I loved your take and you've Gained a new sub. :)
Im glad you enjoyed the video
Is fawn the same as the freeze response?
@mogie_bear5031 no actually ! Google has a really good definition in my opinion so here you are: when an individual tries to avoid or minimize distress or danger by pleasing and appeasing the threat.
In essence-they do whatever they can to keep the abuser happy regardless of their needs or want to minimize danger.
Freeze is just not being able to move/react and often in times will be a preparation of active fight or flight.
Much, MUCH different.
I hope that helped!
I guess fawn is one word for it but when i looked it up they use the word friend as it accounts for both 'befriending' your aggressor (as you already stated) or calling for someone else like a bystander or such which is actually tried to do by talking to Curly prior to the crash.
@@PrestoPuma I've honestly never heard or seen anything in my personal research call fawn "friend" but it makes sense as well! I've just always called it fawn.
I dunno if I'd say that Anya was using friend on Curly before the crash-she seemed to trust him up until he didn't do anything about the assault and that's where things fell apart. She didn't try and convince him by fawning to give her the gun. She just took it because she "knew he'd never give it to her to protect herself". because of how he did nothing about what happened to her other than "I'll fix it/I'll talk to him". but that's just my interpretation.
I wanted to put this here just because I haven't seen anyone else talking about it, but I think it's really telling that the first time we see pre-crash Curly is right before Jimmy crashes the ship because we're really seeing who Curly is for the first time. He isn't a perfect victim who did nothing wrong. He isn't a complete monster who crashed the ship because he wanted to kill everyone on board like we might assume at the beginning. He's an incredibly flawed person who, through his inaction, chose his friend over his crew and their safety. He doesn't deserve what happened to him, no one deserves Curly's fate, but in a way he's very very real. For every Jimmy in the real world, there are Curlys who excuse their actions and don't do anything to help. And in that way, he isn't a villain like Jimmy or innocent like Daisuke. He's very terrifyingly human.
thats a really good point. another thing i wanna add onto this is that if you look closely, curly is wearing the same mechanic shirt as swansea and daisuke under his uniform. I think thats pretty telling about how he had the ability to fix things the whole time but it was held back by his warped idea of responsibility.
I also haven't seen anyone say this!! I really liked this take
fun fact:
anya has a book in her office named 'Up or Down: the Illusion of Choice' which references to the prequel, 'how fish is made.' this game feels like a fever dream so i wont bother explaining it but im pretty sure someone already did.
@YelinBayildiran-lx3kl im aware of that game and i might play it and make a video about how it connects to this game if this video does well enough. I think if you look at it in a vacuum its kind of like telling Anya that no matter what she sees of Jimmy, it will always end poorly
45:13 my interpretation of the axe on the screen is that it's a callback to the dead pixel Anya talks about. The bigger picture can't be enjoyed anymore because the dead pixel is now an all consuming crack.
Hes telling jimmy "i know who you really are". He cant hide anymore, especially without Curly to bail him out.
I like that idea
Interesting perspective! i always thought it was foreshadowing bc Daisuke is our sunshine character, and, well, axe placement
"Axe placement" is a hilarious way to put it
As a woman Anya's story really speaks to me because this is the reality that I've been unable to put into words to my male friends until now. It does not matter. It doesn't matter how successful, intelligent, skilled, competent, how hard I try, how much I succeed. At the end of the day I am only a woman and I'll never be anything more. That's what she experienced on that ship. She could be the best student in her med school, she could have been the most skilled nurse on the planet for all she cared. The minute a man decided to, he could take all of that away from her. And there's nothing she could do to stop it, nor did anyone care to. This is reality. This is what's it's like to experience true hopelessness like this as a woman. Who cares if most of the men on that ship were good men. It only took one.
Someone else in the comments pointed out how the majority of men who play the game need to be told about Anya's SA and the women who play it usually get it immediately with the convo between curly and Anya in the lounge.
12:48 probably one of my favorite hidden subtleties in this entire game is the text at the bottom, "DragonBreath CO will not accept responsibility for any harm caused by the use of this product". The theme of Irresponsibility is so deeply ingrained in every story beat, and it's all deliberate. The fact that Curly was ready to share responsibility, but Jimmy wasn't? It kills 99.9% of all germs, but what about that last remaining 0.1%? Every moment in this game was so carefully and thoughtfully plotted out. Incredible. Horrific, but also Incredible.
genuinely the most complex and amazing writing ive ever seen without competition
When the video essay is over an hour long and starts with a content warning I GET OUT THE POPCORN
I hope you like it!
I might not watch it rn but I’m definitely looking forward to watching this when I have the time, I’ve been waiting weeks for a Mouthwashing analysis video that’s over an hour long
You know what? Popcorn sounds delicious right now, good idea
Real im eating dinner with these
SAME AND CANDY
One thing I find interesting is that Anya specifically says "our worst moments" instead of "our worst actions". When she's locked in the medical room, I think she's actually referring to Jimmy assaulting her as one of her own worst moments, which is why she said she hoped it "doesn't make us beyond repair". The dialogue in this game is incredible, and your analysis is great :)
@eeveebean1 thats a really good way of putting it
"there is no good ending" did you know that if you let Swansea kill you ten times in the maze hallucination you'll get a achievement titled 'good ending'
(I edited it to say 10 times because I missed how many times it took)
Really? Ive died a lot in that section and i dont remember that happening
@SocksNeedsHelp I dunno I wasn't able to play the game and I've only heard that can happen
Yeah idk if thats a thing. Maybe it happens if you dont leave daisuke's grave or let swansea get you a bunch of times
10 times
@@YelinBayildiran-lx3kl I just figured that out (also that is the most likes I've got on a comments)
32:47 i always saw this as Anya going into a fawning state- she cant run away or fight jimmy off in this situation, so appeasing him is her safest option.
@emilyjones9787 yeah thats how i saw it as well. Just avoiding conflict at all costs even if its impossible with a person like jimmy
I actually had an hypothesis on what Jimmy's mental trips are. Along with other reasons, it's a way that he conflates what he's actually doing on the ship.
- Giving Curly medicine was a simple task. It was probably harder to treat his burns, wrap him in bandages, attempt to sterilize his surroundings, and stay up to date on his condition probably at the cost of sleep, all while the medical supplies diminished. Anya most likely did all of this while also giving Jimmy ideas of what he could do so he could actually help while also not being around her. However, Jimmy had the crazy hard task of shoving a pill down his throat. Which I think the only reason Anya couldn't do was because she's not someone who could forcibly insert things onto others. Jimmy on the other hand is a pro. Blacking it out could be a way to make it seem grander than reality would have it be.
- He wasn't just grabbing a container of mouthwash to splash on Daisuke (despite Anya's warning). No sir he was battling with a megaton demon horse who was guarding it's treasure from the ship crew. He would literally just have to open a couple doors. Mouthwash was the ONLY thing the ship had in the cargo. Crap tons of it. To think that Swansea just went and killed Daisuke after all that hard work Jimmy did. What a jerk!
- Speaking of which, he didn't just gun down a drunk guy tied to a chair after swinging an axe at him. He was FIGHTING for his LIFE in an EPIC BATTLE. Running through the ship halls, crawling through the death trap vent, and having a final duel for the honor of Daisuke just to add that extra flair. Didn't have to worry about Daisuke rejecting his heroic title because he's dead. We can tell ourselves anything about dead people because they can't object to it themselves.
- In the end, you're not just feeding Curly his own leg meat and just pushing it back in his mouth if he spits it out. You are literally fixing him by turning all the valves and tuning his body so he's able to get what he needs. So cool Jimmy.
Some other tidbits to note that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Jimmy looking at himself in the TV screen walking through space, is his first moment of self reflection. He finally sees himself and yet it only made him see just a few mistakes here and there. This guy took about a year, three corpses, and a 99.9% burnt vegetable of his friend to get THAT far. Like damn dude's gonna need at least three more hopeless death trips in the void of space to become at least a semi decent person.
Also in my mind is a scary thought. Anya already dealt with the baby by overdosing herself and taking it along with her. However, the "horse fetus aborting" scene makes me wonder if Jimmy thought he still, not only needed to do something, but still could fix this thing by doing what he did. "What he did" possibly being him going to Anya's corpse and literally ripping the fetus out. A scene so horrid that a psyche trip of a weird horse worm is way more palatable.
It's just that "all clean" part that unnerves me. Literally just washing out a corpse worrying more about some little thing inside it that's already dead. Then having the gull to say that YOU fixed it, and on top of that, still deny how it got there in the first place.
Love the video btw. It's always cool to get a bunch of thoughts on this amazing title.
- so i think an interesting point about this is that anya actually says that forcing the painkillers on curly "hurts him so much" which is why she doesn't want to do it. everything else helps him, but the administering of the pills hurts him. anya is a good person and thats why she finds the helping parts easy and the hurting parts hard, jimmy is the opposite.
the fact "i hope this hurts" flashes throughout the "all clean" brief cutscene shows the dichotomy of how he thinks he's helping, how he thinks he's just fixing his mistakes when in reality it hurts the others and he loves it.
aw fuck. jimmy definitely did that last part to Anya after she died...
45:37 I think Swansea specifically swinging the axe into (and breaking it) is symbolic of the illusion that everything will be alright (the screen) finally being broken as we see Daisuke completely breaking down from the mouthwash and Anya contemplating drinking it too. It also acts as a sort of turning point where Swansea seems to have completely given up on everything too
@VolaJelly oh i can see that. Hes almost telling jimmy directly that this false idea he has of fixing things is shit
@@SocksNeedsHelpI also see it having this as meaning as well as being forshadowing/almost a pun on he fact that he puts the ax through both of the 'useless rays of sunshine ' on the ship. Both the false sunshine, and diasuke. It's only after dais death do we feel the impact and usefulness of his sunny disposition. Jimmy only truly snaps into complete delusion, when those final lights are snuffed out.
@@V__Vahaa i like that idea.
This is a really great video about Mouthwashing, you've done excellent analysis! But what you said near the end concerned me a bit, you mentioned being sexually assaulted but that it
'wasn't as bad' as Anya's. As a fellow survivor who spent years telling myself what happened to me wasn't that bad, even when it happened multiple times or when I was heartbreakingly young. I felt like since my experiences weren't all ultraviolent alley encounters that they weren't worth me kicking up a fuss about. That's a very very common feeling amongst survivors, that by telling our stories we're somehow stealing comfort and care from other, more 'deserving' survivors.
I just want you to know that regardless of how 'bad' your sexual assault was, you deserved comfort and care. It's not a competition about who had it worse, and ANY violation of your bodily autonomy is something you shouldn't have had to experience at all. It wasn't your fault.
@celestialcass thank you, thank you!!!
And... i dont know. Im working on it. Like i said, i literally just started talking about it after almost 5 years have passed. Im already prone to devaluing my trauma.
@@SocksNeedsHelpit's something that can take a long time, and it takes a lot of therapy and work. 5 years seems like a long time, but it's always better late than never to start healing bit by bit.
Imposter syndrome can often happen after trauma. Convincing us that it couldn't have been as bad as it was for others.
My theory is that it's a shield our brain tries to put up in a misguided attempt to protect us from the truth.
... Because if we accept that what happened to us can be that bad, we have to then face how bad it truly was. We have to grapple with it. We have to figure out how to even begin processing the full effect it's had on us. But if we don't grapple with the whole picture, it's hard to recover fully.
Overall I guess what I'm saying is - from what trauma survivor to another - be kind to yourself. You don't have to compare, and you can take your recovery at your own pace. And BTW, you aren't even alone in feeling like your trauma isn't "as bad" as others; imposter syndrome is actually an incredibly common trauma response. So don't feel bad for still struggling with it. I still deal with it sometimes myself even many years into recovery. But I promise you it gets easier over time. Just give yourself the patience and love ♥️. I wish you the best in your recovery journey and I'm glad that this game could be so cathartic for you.
yeah, i showed my therapist this video so im sure we're gonna have a lot to talk about next session haha. I think the reason I waited so long to start talking about this was simply because I didn't think anyone would care. A lot of people ignored me and my abuser did a great job at convincing me that it was fine at the time so I had to figure out that it even really happened for myself. The imposter syndrome is heavy for sure.
after watching this video and your playthrough it really stands out that the only two characters you actually play as are the ones that are supposed to "take responsibility", and yet it feels like you're just following along, not in control at all. I really loved seeing your more in-depth analysis of the story, since the playthrough felt way more laid back
@reesummerlover im glad you enjoyed! I would argue that swansea could also work to take responsibility a bit but he kind of did try at the end to be fair.
Totally agree with your last sentence, watching the playthrough and the essay right afterwards was a cool experience.
Socks made so many little jokes & comments during gameplay on small details, which returned in the essay under much closer scrutiny
Theres so many things i wasted to talk about here that i didnt see till after editing
I think when Swansea puts the ax into the sunset it was symbolism for how he would eventually do the same to his 'ray of sunshine'
@randomtree6620 thats am interesting take
1:17:35 - Also, that whole weird ass sequence with Curly and the knobs and feeding him his own leg...I didn't get it at first, but when you mentioned how Jimbobwhocares feasting on Curly represented forcibly taking the position of captain from Curly, I think that along those lines, this scene was Jiminy trying to FORCE Curly to take it back. To take back being captain. Again he is FORCING someone else to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY even though he had poisoned and rotten the entire thing. Curly has no choice but to swallow and digest the rot that was originally his until his so called 'friend' desecrated and defiled it.
thats a good point
22:27 I see the "empty void" as the dead pixel, as you said, representing the blight that is Jimmy. She's living in a world infinitely darkened by him, yet Curly can't see it.
interesting idea. her isolation isnt just from the lack of help but also from Jimmy's othering.
Something about the day of the crash: notice how after Anya tells Jimmy about the pregnancy Curly goes to look for Jimmy and finds him right outside of the cockpit. Where the gun would normally be. Jimmy immediately headed RIGHT to where he thought the gun was located after finding out about the pregnancy. Anya's instincts to hide the gun from him were 100% correct. I definitely think Jimmy intended to theraten/kill Anya with the gun and only crashed the ship as an alternative because he couldn't get the gun.
People don't understand because they think "well wtf was Jimmy's plan after he killed Anya then?" That's the thing. He doesn't plan. All that matters to him is that he avoids taking responsibility and is willing to commit horrific violence to do so. You see this kind of thing in real life with family annihilators.
oh almost certainly, and she was likely in the medical room to lock herself in if she needed to.
yeah a lot of people don't understand his actions forget that he's just stupid.
I saw a comment somewhere recently, talking about one action Curly could've acted upon to take responsibility once he learned of the situation; put Jimmy and Anya in cryopods for the ride back.
For Anya, it might keep her pregnancy from progressing, and for Jimmy, it'd keep him from taking action against anybody (and himself) for the trip's interim.
and i have been haunted by that ever since .....
YOOOOOOO❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️
I never even thought about that. I was like "wait, this ship doesn't have a brigg" but it literally has the best one imaginable.
The thing is that If they did their pay would be docked and that wouldn’t help Anya since she didn’t have any savings and was about to be jobless, and jimmy is the copilot and was needed
id personally take my pay being docked over suicide. also in this imaginary world where curly actually helped and detained Jimmy, this false version of him would likely be strong enough of a person to help her recover. I dont really care for fantasizing like this tho
I really liked this story, because Anya, Jimmy and Curly feel so real. The way Anya struggles to exist and cope with her SA, Jimmy's apathy to her and his hostility, Curly's inability to act or help...it all reminds me of my own experiences living with my abuser and how I know that telling certain people would be in vain due to their biases. I love Anya, because I know exactly what she's feeling...except the pregnancy, I can't feel that.
@cryguy0000 yeah im the same way. That pure hopelessness of people saying they understand without doing anything eats at you. You feel weak and its just miserable
I found the commentary on the "Sorry!" game board in the lounge especially interesting. I never thought anything of it, and I haven't seen anyone else mention it. Great observations and analysis.
i appreciate the comment... however I got that all wrong. that game is played the opposite way than I thought, the pieces ending in the middle. it makes a lot more sense with Jimmy having one foot out the door, anya barely making it out of the starting area and needing to go through jimmy, Daisuke being at the start of the game, and swansea still guiding Daisuke
I am so sorry about what happened to you, as a fellow woman that is my biggest nightmare. Probably one of the reasons this game hit so hard for me. Your analysis was spot on, and I REALLY appreciate the pauses and how sensitive you were around these heavy topics. Sending you hugs
Thank you so much! This really means a lot
Anya trying to appease Jimmy when he’s the captain is called “the Fawn response” much like the flight and fight response. She’s trying to protect herself. It could also just be a trauma response.
Yup. Its also theorised that this is a way to try and condition him to be better for her own sake
I'd say Swansea is more the abrasive pragmatacist than anything else. He had hope in him. Sure he was a jerk, fed up with responsibility in the same vein as Jimmy, and his hard exterior caused a lot of the problems indirectly, but he was competent. He was the one shouldering the responsibility, assessing the scope of their situation, and even securing at least someone's escape (his conversations with Anya and gradually shifting discussions on Daisuke are pretty close to confirming he was hiding the cyropod to guarantee it for him, still young and likely to recover from this incident). He was doing the right things against all his own interests, and Jimmy could only imagine him acting out of self interest. No wonder he wasn't allowed in the utility room.
You made a great video. I've seen a video on Mouthwash by now, and your perspectives caught some interlocking but distinct details by interpreting the story. There's a lot to unpack here, and your perspective is very important, that's what the community is for. I know you've been unsure about the direction of the channel and all; just do what motivates you, keep pushing your passion. If you fret about filtering yourself for the amorphous blob of plugged in algorithms you lose yourself. Do what comes naturally, here or there.
Yeah i can see that. I dont think i meant swansea was nihilistic out of choice, more out of his alcoholism. I didnt even think that the anya and swansea convo we walk in on in the cockpit was about daisuke getting the pod, it makes total sense tbh. And anya would probably be fine with giving daisuke the pod, she just hated it because it meant she had to deal with jimmy
the flowers during Daisuke's section of Judgement are meant to be the ones on his shirt, and the pile of items (the flower, the weights and the gameboy) are mostly items that can be found around where he sleeps!
yup! its in the pinned comment
Small thing I think should be noted.
Any conversations Jimmy has with Curly AFTER the crash, in which Curly talks back.
Aren't actually Jimmy talking to Curly.
It's Jimmy talking to himself and using Curly as the mouth piece.
When Curly is talking about the cake, and seems to not be mad at Jimmy for what he did- That's because Jimmy is justifying himself to himself.
His actions aren't so bad, because he can still make them lead to something good. Curly's still his friend. They can fix anything together!
He's misusing Curlys words. The same way he attempts to misuse Anya's words when speaking with Polly.
Jimmy starts to say his worst moments don't make him a monster, and Polly cuts him off because those aren't his words to use. Polly calls him out on misusing the words of others to justify his misdeeds by saying "If that's true, why are you so focused on him? (Curly)"
We don't know Curly's thoughts post crash. The ONLY indication we get of them is him laughing when Jimmy gets the gun. (And then technically his speech in How Fish is Made. But that's not THIS game.)
Any and all words he says post crash are what JIMMY wants and expects him to say.
he's almost literally speaking through curly with the scene where you walk out of his mouth lol
57:57 I like to think that the gravestone spells out Swansea and Daisuke, since opening up the cargo hold and finding the mouthwash was what really made us lose them.
@reesummerlover true, but the one that looks like daisuke looks way too long. That would make the most sense
I don't think the Swansea fight, or even Swansea attacking Jimmy happened at all, I think that it was all Jimmy's delusions
Swansea's speech even happens directly where the big monitor is, giving Jimmy something to imagine those visuals onto
Oh of course. Thats why i said its what jimmy percieves as self defense
Daisuke had a Game Boy (and I think a set of weights?) next to his makeshift bed after the crash. I think the flowers everywhere were supposed to symbolize his optimism as well.
It really killed me to notice the only times Jimmy ever really listened to Anya were when she was saying something that would appease his ego. She showed him where the meds were and how to get them, which fueled his fantasy of being Curly's savior, and she said "we're better than our worst moments," words he clung to like a security blanket as he proceeded to destroy everything around him
@@daughterphoenix yeah for real. He only did "good" things when they benifited him
A note on the flowers:
Pink hibiscus represent youth, happiness, and helpfulness. All traits the Daisuke posses. The flower itself is on his shirt. It also is a flower that dies quickly after it blooms, adding to the ‘gone too soon’ element of Daisuke’s story
@@ElizaSilent yup. All in the pinned comment
there's an interpretation of anya i saw... somewhere, that she has no actual problem doing her job, but asks jimmy to feed curly his painkillers as a way to stroke his ego and present herself as a "weak-minded female" that jimmy thinks she is. plus he's clearly more dangerous when bored or feeling a threat to his authority, so anya tried to appease that. she is a nurse after all.
Maybe? I think she is, in reality, capable and good at her job but i think the reason for her struggling with the administering of the pills was more that everything else helped jimmy whereas the pills we unnecessary and forced. I think the reason anya forgot to give curly his meds that one time was because he wasnt actually writhing in pain and screaming loud enough to hear it throughout the halls but jimmy was just percieving it that way.
I seem to recall hearing that the second cartoon was explicitly anti communism/unionism propaganda, so that one mostly feeds into the fact that the crew were being put into an impossible situation by the corporation.
But the fact that it can also hint toward alcoholism is pretty major and a good catch.
@amyallen6863 yeah thats kinda what i meant. Its talking about all the good parts of capitalism to try and make viewers thing "oh that doesnt sound too bad!"
this game is absolutely incredible. the meaning behind everything, the symbolism, the incredibly well-executed foreshadowing, i havent seen anything this excellent in a long time.
actually only rivaled by like, silent hill
1:12:32 If you walk around the room in this scene, you can see Daisuke's head in each of the cryopod windows
@@Xzerixan thats really interesting
@@SocksNeedsHelpit’s who Swansea intended that pod for before jimmy got him killed
32:30 yeah 100% she's doing this for her safety!! I've known plenty of abuse victims who are stuck interacting with their abusers (especially if they're family, friends or someone important they can't avoid) and end up sucking up to / overcompensating their niceness out of fear, and where I live, it's unfortunate but understandable.
It's like, you don't want them to think it bothers you anymore, or you don't want them to know that you still feel unsafe around them, because they're going to take it out on you if you paint them as an abuser. And when there's no way out it's better to keep it that way, either so you can find the perfect time to escape or to prevent getting more hurt. It's very obvious she's lying about her "respect" for jimmy, especially when we compare how much she actually looked up to curly in the beginning.
Anya is aware Jimmy knows that she told someone about the assault, but isn't sure how curly took it because curly's "i'll talk to him" shows a lack of understanding to the severity of the situation. All she knows is she told curly, then curly decided to crash the ship. She has no idea what Jimmy was told. I know if someone asked my abuser "did you assault them?" I would be terrified because I know they'd take it out on me. But she doesn't know what they talked about, so it's safer for her to be nice, especially since Curly can't help anymore.
So this is her way of telling Jimmy "See? I'm fine, I didn't tell him (it was assault), he just knows I'm pregnant. I'm not trying to say bad things about you. Please don't hurt me." She held her feelings close to her chest before trying to hint the truth to Curly and eventually breaking down, and now she's hiding it again so she'll have the chance to do something later, because if she had shown hostility or fear to Jimmy he definitely wouldn't have let her be alone anywhere. She's hiding how much she's spiralling so Jimmy doesn't see her as something he has to urgently deal with. She's showing him she's not a threat.
Great video btw!! I really enjoy your commentary, I'm gonna sub c: I'm really sorry about what you've been through and I'm glad to find someone who also can't stop thinking about this game 🫂like damn it sure does hurt but it's weirdly cathartic
also 46:10 made me laugh out loud omg thank you
I believe its called the fawn response yeah
Yeah ive kinda been there. my assault was fairly public so a lot of it was that I didnt want to make a scene
yeah for sure
I think its interesting as well because since we are looking through jimmy's eyes she ends up just looking a bit clueless and weak because thats how jimmy sees her
After finishing the video (which was great btw good job socks you did great) i share the same sentiment of how this game has been the biggest hyperfixation ive ever had likely because of how i relate to the characters. Daisukes character really hits home of being a innocent young adult surrounded by elders that you just have to listen to because they are your elders and if you don't listen to they'll be disappointed and when you just want someone to say their proud of you, you'll do anything even if it kills you.
I genuinely don't think there will be a game as good as mouthwashing (at least for a long time)it is such a well written story that most games let alone most medias dont want to go and it doesn't spell it you for you it just puts it in front of your face and says look at this the absolute worst parts of Humanity.
I feel like this game should be professionally studied and taught as a important game.
Also i am loving the new videos/ variety other than just ror2 content im glad to see you try new things.
The only thing i think that holds a candle to this game is silent hill 2 which is very similar. But even then you can tell that this entire game was poured over for every little detail and its insane. Things like how curly is wearing a mechanics shirt under his uniform showing how he's able to fix things but blinded by being the captain. Ahhh i wanna talk about it more but im fine where i left it.
this analysis is INCREDIBLE! i haven’t seen anyone go so in depth about the tv channels before, i love your interpretation!!
thank you!!
i think one of the reasons jimmy is super hard on anya, and constantly bringing up how shes lacking as a nurse is because he got her pregnant, and he thinks that if she had been better at her job, that wouldnt have had happened
Maybe? I think its just a classic abuser technique of devaluing everything about a person. Though i imagine he probably blames her for the pregnancy too
how do you rape someone and blame them for their pregnancy?
im not saying its justified lmao. delusional people and abusers often do. they perceive the pregnancy as a weakness of the woman or something like that
He is putting her down to escape the potential of his sa being used to devalue him.
1:10:02 if you check out the sleeping bags post crash, like when grabbing the sweetner from Daisuke's sleeping bag, he has a gameboy beside his. the gameboy is likely just a representation of Daisuke. as are the hibiscus flowers seeing as he has them on his shirt (also the hibiscus could call back to the dream he mentioned of being at the beach with alcohol and girls as hibiscus are pretty exotic flowers that are known to be tropical and are also sometimes used in making cocktails) !!
1:22:00 also here i think Polle is meant to be Anya, the text is the same blue as Anya and it could be Jimmy replacing Anya with Polle because he refused to acknowledge Anya's existence, a common thing in the entire game. and when Polle asks "Why are you still concerned with HIM?" the emphasis on 'him' has always made me believe Polle is asking "Why are you still concerned with Curly, and not Anya?"
ANYA is the one who deserves an apology, the one Jimmy needs to take responsibility or. not Curly, but Jimmy refuses to see that
I know. Pinned comment. I wish there were some way to make it so that people couldnt comment before seeing the linned comment lol everyone wants to tell me this. However the hibiscus plants being used in coctails i didnt know. Thafs really neat
@@SocksNeedsHelp ahhh im so sorry!! i commented it while watching and hadnt read the pinned comment yet T-T
you can ignore my second addition to my OG comment too then as it is my interpretation of the end scene with Polle, and you did write that in your comment i see now ! :D
its ok, you're far from the only one haha
One thing I just now noticed is that when Anya is in the void, crying after telling Curly about the pregnancy, she's flipped onto her back, breathing hard, with her knees in the air. Sound familiar? It's like she's already bracing herself for the pain of the birth
Yup, this is literally called the "fetal position" haha. Spot on. Baby or not, its a thing we all do when overwhelmed/panicking. Crawling up into a ball
I'm so obsessed, too. I totally feel you there. This is my favorite video essay I've watched on it. Thank you!
wow! thank you so much that means a lot
4:21 i love the subtle anger
Hate.... jimmy...
@@SocksNeedsHelpI wish there was an ending where Jimmy is ejected into space. 😊
I have suddenly found myself super into this game as well as an assault victim -- it grabs onto me by the ears whenever someone makes media like this.
I think it is important to also say, your personal feelings about Anya are valid and true. None of us can know what someone else went through, but just because we think its "not as bad" (which ofc we cannot have been through this exact thing) the gravity is the same. Much love, I am sorry you went through that. I am happy this game has lit up something in you to start finding some peace and acceptance, it took a lot of these kinds of things for me.
I wonder with Anya as a literature person, if she has a stream of her own guilt as well. When I saw the situation that led to everyone being like this, I figured she would blame herself a lot. Which is so painful to even think about. (It is obviously not her fault of course) But I am always riveted by how this game talks about power. The power women have, the power men have, the power children have, and the power cooperations have. The inherent power we're born with vs the power we're given etc.
hey thanks for commenting. I have a more detailed response to the first part of your comment in the pinned comment :)
the guilt that comes with not being able to stop your abuser even if there's nothing you actually could have done is very real for sure
Thank you for your courage. This was a very well made video. I'm glad to see it's getting good attention :)
thank you. this means a lot.
i loved your analysis of the game! it really helped me pieve together what happened and even come to my own conclusions that weren’t exactly yours. one of my favs is one discussed on tumblr saying how polle, throughout the whole game, represents anya. everytime curly or jimmy hallucinate in the ship and pass polle posters, it’s rhem ignoring but being ultimately unable to escape anya. jimmy never acknowledges what he did to anya, and in his subconscious, she is not even a human being to him but rather a horse (his psych eval?). he’s constnatly running from taking responsibility yet can never escape it, hence the final scene with polle. just regurgitating information i didn’t come up with myself. fantastic video!
yeah for sure, I came to the same conclusion but unfortunately I didn't get there till after this video :/ its a shame because it definitely makes sense. Thanks!
no worries! there’s technically no “wrong” interpretation! i loved your interpretation of jimmy removing curlys leg and your alternate interpretation of the flowers symbolizing the fact a crew member had died.
Haven't watch the entire thing yet, but I personally believe that the final trigger for Anya to commit suicide was Jimmy destroying the Polle statue, which many players including me think served as an alarm for anyone approaching her bed. Imagine him glaring at her afterwards, while Swansea only finds it hilarious and Daisuke was somewhere on the ship passed out from the mouthwash. I feel like at this point, beside the lack of food and the utter hopelessness of survival and what Jimmy has done to her, she knew that she can't tame him by praising him and before risking him, attempting this again, be the last survivor with her abuser and dying by his hands it is better to lock herself and die by an overdose...I really wonder if the bring up a dlc that shows thinks from her perspective, pre-crash, the pregnancy symptoms showing up the utter despair the months following the crash ect
@ManiyaVinas so a couple things... idk if i can really agree with the alarm thing. I might if it was closer but its pretty far away from her office which is where she was assumedly staying post crash. I think jimmy destroying the statue was more a projection of not being able to get to anya now that she killed herself. I think anya did what she did simply because she snapped. A lot of people in that situation dont have 1 single inciting incident, but her talk with jimmy through the door, hearing him sentence daisuke to death by the vent, it likely made her realize that there wasnt any reason left to keep trying.
And secondly... i honestly dont know if i want another game, let alone one from anya's perspective. A lot of the great storytelling of the game is because its through the eyes of the antagonist. I dont think seeing things from anya's point of view would really add anything and seeing her final moments would absolutely be unnecessary.
The hallucinations actually tell you how Jimmy got into the cockpit. He escaped through the busted vent.
what? if you mean during the crash that doesnt make sense, we see him sitting in the cockpit hallway. do you mean after swansea attacks him? i suppose that's possible but is there a vent in the cockpit?
Finally got around to watching through the full video, and I am NOT disappointed. I live for video essays, and this is the perfect exam study break.
glad you enjoyed :)
Please don't compare your trauma with others. You have a right to feel as strong as you do about what you went through. Trauma isn't a competition, or something to be compared. You went through a lot, and your pain shouldn't be felt less than anyone else. ❤
i understand. i talk about it in the pinned comment. I just started talking about it all now so. yknow. its roughh
8:30 Yes! I also found that I didn't agree with Jimmy's summary. Just because you reached your potential in one place and want to move on, it doesn't invalidate the whole journey. People leave long-term relationships, jobs, studies, move places, and the change is always scary but a lot of good can come from it. Especially, considering how exhausting and dangerous it is to ship things in space.
11:51 It seems to be a video from a meat processing factory, with carcasses hanging around. I haven't watched too closely, with the topic of the game I find this video kinda disturbing. Similarly to the video with a child eating in the section when Jimbo feeds Curly his leg.
22:01 It is never actually said that she was SAed, and we don't even immediately get a name. Which actually makes it even more powerful (and maybe realistic? can't be easy thing to talk about, considering the response might be very dismissive if not outright accusing), the player gets to piece 2 and 2 together on their own and reveal the answer of what kind of person we are actually playing as.
29:10 Oh, I can understand. I have never been as obsessed as with this game. Watching dozen of playthroughs and analyses helped a lot. I played on my own. But if I see someone new talking, I check them out for their perspective. I think it is because of this hopelessness. How easily it could have been avoided. And how horrifically realistic it is. And how game doesn't give a solution, it just ends. So, in every video I watch, I look for an answer. I even spend an hour retelling the plot to my mom. And I did get the validation from her. I am right this story is horrible as much as it is amazing. We all are right. This game raises important topics of the evils of abusers and bystanders, corporate hell, and the meaning of life. And I just hope it helps someone in real life to feel seen and less alone, to point out injustice, and to be a little more caring.
1:10:10 Gameboy and weights were near Daisuke's bed. Pink hibiscus is on his shirt. The other interpretation could be that these are things to commemorate Daisuke, and Jimy still cannot look at it for too long (it has the same visual effect as turning back). I like to think of this whole section of hallucinations as his own mind and consciousness trying to reach him and make him see the error in his ways. But it doesn't really work. Not only is it too late, anyways, but Jiymm by "giving away" the cryo pod seems to entirely forgive himself, wash it all away.
1:11:14 I never noticed those gravestones before. Nothing is wrong with game theories! Even if they don't really match the developers' vision, once the game is out, it is ours to interpret. I liked some of other people's interpretations, like Jimm's "birthday party" wasn't just him seeking recognition, but also an attempt to replay the moment when "everything went wrong" (according to jimbo of course; his crime and his child were already there).
1:19:02 I know that by this point anyone recognises what kind of person he is. But the way he says "we were trapped" makes my blood boil. He felt powerless, so he took it on Anya, physically and verbally, more than once. He felt hopeless and afraid, so he crashed the ship hoping everyone would die with him. And he couldn't even do that properly, extending everyone's misery for extra 5!! months. Oh, but that was an accident, he just slipped a little, oopsie. Dang, what a person😡 And as Swansea said, he doesn't even see that!
1:34:57 This is probably the only thing I can't agree on. She can do her job. We are introduced to Anya through other people's perspectives, so it clouds our judgment. Jimvo is extremely dismissive and hateful towards her. Curly is more understanding, but he shouldn't have done evaluation for her. Jimmm was the problem, not her; he made her feel uncomfortable and unsafe on purpose. Curly could have just been present for his phych eval to make sure he doesn't verbally harass Anya and cooperates. After the crush, she does struggle with Curly's meds, but she is also pregnant (which makes people extra nauseous) and her discomfort might come from the fact that she has to force the pills down Curly's throat (possibly reminding her of what she experienced at Jimms' hands). She seemingly had no painkillers in form of solutions to give them to Curly through the drip (as it should be), she had limited first-aid kit, limited access to clean water (in the recipes it was written that shower water is not fit for consumption, was it even clean enough for severe burn patient??). Somehow, she kept a nearly terminal patient alive for 5 months (maybe Curly's state was exaggerated by Jimm, since it's his POV, but still). She gave him his pills every day, several times a day for 5 months, and Jimco did it twice and had breakdown (maybe he helped of screen, but considering Daisuke was in charge of food, Jimko must have spend 5 months walking around and feeling important). Yes, judging by the posters in medbay, she struggled with anxiety, but in the extremely stressful situation after the crash she was very functional. She was the one who gave Jimmcy all of the tasks after all. He knew nothing (possibly not even how to pilot). Probably, one of the reason why Swansea decided to kill Daisuke, because he knew that without Anya it was entirely impossible for him to recover.
1:38:19 As for your final thoughts, it was a very thought out piece. I enjoyed watching it. Just because you got to play the game later and took time to make this video doesn't decrease it's value. It was worth making and worth watching, because it contained your own thoughts. My comment, on the other hand, was amalgamation of what I have seen in others and not really a lot of personal thinking. I am privileged to have never experienced something like Anya (at least, so far), but I want to know what's happening around me. This game and your essay is a good way of learning about life. I am glad to know you are moving on with your life and not letting bigots and abusers define you! I really hope I am not overstepping with this ridiculously long thing of a comment.
Thank you for the video💜
- that would make sense. Jimmy is just so short-sighted and selfish that he assumes curly moving to bigger and better would mean leaving his old life behind.
- This makes sense and I agree.
- Yeah im aware it wasn't mentioned directly, but as someone who's gone through this song and dance before (not that you need this experience to know about it), it shows an excellent perspective of what someone on the outside of the situation might think. She might not have said it directly, but victims often don't use words like "I was sexually assaulted" or something like that. She confided in Curly that Jimmy hurt her but because he couldn't understand the severity of the situation like most people do, he let her behind.
- Yeah theres is no real 1 answer to this game except the realization and lesson to every player that these things happen. they might be in space in a larger-than-life situation, but that doesn't make what they're going through any less real.
- Some people have said this and I don't blame myself for not noticing that. a lot to keep track of yeah.
- I wasn't saying that I don't like it being a game theory as in a theory about a game, i was saying that it felt like what they'd do on the game theorists show. I like that show, but I often find it misses the point of a story by looking way too into the secrets and numbers of things in the game. It sucks in my opinion and I hope to god that they don't touch this game.
- yupppp
- I think you may have misunderstood what i meant here. All i have to say is that I think curly should have conducted an evaluation on Anya more for himself than for her. seeing how she felt on paper might have given him a better perspective on all that than spoken word ever could. I more meant that she was struggling to do her job, not that she fully couldn't. I should have let up on the hyperbole. I do like your point that the game makes it look like she's being kind of useless because its only through the eyes of Jimmy.
- Thanks! Something somethings... I have to believe our worst moments don't make us monsters. I'm not ready to talk about my assault in full detail yet, i think, but that feeling of looking for any hope that they might be a good person hit very close to home. I and a lot of other victims often don't even realize we were victims until after the fact and since what happened to us was so unreal, we often try to find excuses for it to make ourselves feel better. It's no fun at all.
Glad you enjoyed
@@SocksNeedsHelp 22:01 I hope it didn't come off as I was doubting her. It was a great way to portray the situation, to add gravity to it, and I couldn't not point it out.
1:10:10 Yes! Some things are too pixelated, some are just to the side, some flash by to quickly. A lot is added for atmosphere and worldbuilding. I think this is a game that was meant to be played more than once. It is inevitable that we focus on characters rather then walk around and look at the posters and books around the ship.
1:11:14 Ah, I didn't know about game theorist. I see your point. The sum of the parts is greater or something? At least, if they do, you don't have to watch how they pick the game apart to meaningless atoms the ship was built from. :)
1:34:57 Yes, I misunderstood you. I guess I like Anya, I love her potential that was destroyed by one little jealous man. In after the crash sequences, game deliberately drives the player to be annoyed at her and player has to unlearn that. I was too defensive, sorry! But yeah, Curly failed her in so many ways. His behaviour is somewhat surprising to me. If he'd done long flights before, he should have the experience! Or is Jimbo a relatively new addition that clouds his judgement? Is Anya new? But then they say that only Daisuke is a newcomer. Or was he only good at keeping peace and all black pixels of tensions and complaints were completely ignored? This way company would favour him for good "team work" and people who were uncomfortable would just leave.
-And people like Jim don't even care. Walked all over the place and left imprints of his shoes everywhere. I like to think that Anya would have gotten to a better place in life if she wasn't stuck in a middle of nowhere with no food, no hope of rescue, and increasingly deranged individual who she had to manage. She wasn't just her hopelessness, fear, and insecurities, she was even more a beautiful sum of everything in her, and she barely got to show it. Not that others deserved it, of course. However, Curly did have a heart-to-heart conversation with Jim, Daisuke spoke more personally when he was on the floor drunk, Swansea had his moment to speak out, but for Anya it was just a few seconds before her death and we didn't even see her, she was ignored in favour of saving Curly. This all was just so unfair.
Thank you for reply💜
This was not fun in the slightest but that's a good thing. This was such a roller-coaster of emotions and I really don't think I could've sat through it if it wasn't for Socks putting it the way she did. The interludes were a very good addition given the subjects letting us take a step back to not get too sucked into the negative emotions the game and video brings up. Well done Socks.
PS: I cannot commend you enough on being willing to talk even in passing about what happened to you and I know it means nothing from a random person on the internet but you have such courage for even mentioning it.
Yeah i figured. im prone to getting sucked into those stories of misery and it's something I actually struggle with myself. its like doom scrolling without the scrolling lol. Im happy it helped.
yeah... im working on it. I only now just started talking about my assault and it still feels kind of wrong to do. spent a lot of time being ignored for it so its hard to talk about now without feeling like its bothering other people.
@@SocksNeedsHelpHey I’m commenting this late, but I just wanted to say that I understand your feelings. I was s* assaulted and for a long time I felt ashamed talking about it to anyone. I hope that you are able to heal and find someone that you can feel safe to speak to about it. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity.
I dont really quite have that, but maybe in the future. I dont think I could bear to talk about it without being able to type it out first
I haven't seen anyone talk about the importance of Anya considering to take the mouthwash
She'd abstained due to her pregnancy and by considering it, she's giving up not only on the idea of salvation, but on her efforts to keep the baby healthy, which give more power to her final decision
yeah no kidding. theres also no proof she ever actually drank the mouthwash as far as im aware. the proof she's willing to care about this baby just shows how good of a person she is
I didn't see anyone talking about it when I skimmed through the comments, but just incase no one did, the video at 11:50 that you couldn't understand was (to my interpretation) footage of two guys in a freezer with meat on hooks. Judging by the helmets, probably in a meat packing factory which....WELL
Yeah, that's what I've been told, and I think i see it. Could be an interesting comparison as to how they are all effectively just meat on the ship. The 2 workers being jimmy and daisuke since thats how they both saw the rest of the crew. Just a body they had responibility over.
This was good. Great job. I love a Blahaj cameo. This game is messed up. I'm glad more stories like this are finding their way into the mainstream.
@sci7zo thanks! Im really happy with this video and im glad it's getting decent reception. Will def be working on more soon
Finally made it to the end of the video and I wanna thank you for committing to putting out this video despite others also doing the same for this game, and I hope you're healing well after what happened to you.
I just came from your Edith Finch video, actually, and the way you talk through events in the games and potential meanings is very thorough, and I love that you're able to admit when you don't fully understand something. You already earned yourself a follow from the last video, but this one has definitely cemented it :]
hey thanks! Im definitely great at undervaluing my work and panicking about how people will take it so it's nice to hear stuff like this.
I personally don't think Swansea every actually went after Jimmy. I think Jimmy hated how he was being talked about, reacted by finding the gun, and then afterwards tried to act like a victim. I think that's why Swansea is shown to be shot tied up in the chair when actually truthfully talking about his life.
@bittersweet4487 i kinda agree but showing jimmy being attacked by swansea 3 diff times seems like a bit much to not be at least somewhat in reality. My theory is that jimmy instigated it with the gun and swansea charged him since he had nothing to lose. That or he actually never attacked jimmy and all the times swansea attacks us are jimmy trying to rationalize what he did.
@@SocksNeedsHelp That's fair, I definitely can imagine Jimmy instigating it. I was wondering if maybe Jimmy thought through lies that he could tell people, and it seeped into the breakdown/purgatory he's going through
I really enjoyed your analysis! You made connections that I haven't heard talked about before.
I would argue that Jimmy never takes responsibility for his actions, not truly. He never acknowledges what he did to Anya. Hence Polle's line at the end "Why are you still so concerned with *him*?" He's fixated on Curly, partly because he thought he wanted Curly's life. His apologies feel more like he's sorry he got caught, rather than actually taking responsibility for how he destroyed the lives of four people. He never expresses remorse for the SA. The only thing he regrets is that it led to a pregnancy that will expose his crime. He never sees Anya as a person, which is why she's represented by the company mascot at the end. In the end, he never learned anything.
I also find it interesting that the fetus is a monstrous form of the company mascot. It is as much a product Jimmy's cruelty as it is the companies neglect.
Yeah I totally agree. I think what I meant by he's finally "taking responsibility" is that in the end he finally made 1 "good" decision of saving curly instead of himself. He isn't actually better now, he just finally did the bare minimum
@@SocksNeedsHelp Indeed. I feel like even that act is a selfish one. He's saving Curly so he can be the hero he's always imagined himself to be. He's a narcissist to the very end.
I think we can all agree that Jimmy is a piece of shit and we hate him. haha.
It's always the subtle storytelling elements that have me revisting this game over and over again... the game board, the gameboy, weights and flowers really just showing that Daiske was just a kid, and so much more. If Swans think their young are too sick or too injured, they mercy kill them. The text colors for each characters...
Anya and Polle's text are the same... When J*mmy has his Judgement sequence, theres visuals of Curly Daiske and Swansea but not for Anya. But what if Polle is the stand in for Anya and shows not just how much J*mmy doesnt see Anya, but how much he dehumanizes her. Like horses are a vessel for our communication needs(Pony Express), Anya was nothing but a vessel for his selfish pleasures, and (unwanted) child.
he did say that he had found himself sexually excited at the thought of cartoon horses... :/
oh my god i never noticed how curly asked anya “who would she do it with” instead of “who did it to her”
i just thought it was him being careless with his words
it really shows how one sentence can change the entire narrative
Yeah like he immediately put it on her its crazy
finally a mouthwashing video essay that isn't just "I bet you didn't realize the actual dark story behind this game!!!!" such a good video and I'm not even done with it! great work!!
@@olidarts im glad you like it
1:09:39 these are actually the items next to daisuke's bed on the ship ! (And a neat thing outside of the map is all of the hands actually having a mini daisuke below the map !)
@Four-Leaf-Frenzy mhm. Pinned comment
45:15
I’ve heard other people theorize that Swansea breaking the sunrise window screen with the axe foreshadows Daisuke’s death. The only ray of sunshine or hope in this helpless situation breaks too, as Swansea puts Daisuke out of his misery with said axe😢
That would make sense but i feel like its gotta be deeper than that.... idk its just one of the many very well written parts of this game that take a while to sink in
@SocksNeedsHelp very true! That’s honestly one of my favorite parts of this game, I love how the major parts of the story aren’t told to you through the dialogue, but rather the through experience. You really have to think things over, and this game really makes you look twice at the tiny things (ex: the broken vent, Anya’s books, and the sorry game). And getting to view the story from Jimmy’s twisted perspective first, really forces you to fight your initial perspective of the whole crew and their situation!
I have been obsessed with this game and im so glad to see so many great videos on it. ❤
@@shikuthetempest me too
I loved this video so so much. I really have been enjoying mouthwashing content is def a fixation for me rn
I'm glad you like it
This and Soma definitely stuck with me for a long time. Soma for the existential questions of what it means to be human and whether we can accept multiple futures of us (bad and good) and how those are STILL valid.
Mouthwashing for how two people can fuck up multiple people's lives; Jimcrackballssobloserpos for being a complete POS and Curly for enabling his POS friend until it is far too late for him to stop him.
I have a lot of feelings for Curly and most are negative but I have sympathy for him. I don't believe he deserved his fate; no one deserves their fate. Not ever that asshole (because his fate should have been MUCH MUCH worse). However, while Jiminyfrackasass is the one person to blame for EVERYTHING that happens (hell he has a hand in what happened to Anya because he's a monster and his existence makes everything worse), Curly was the ONE person who had enough influence to stop Jimmy. To reign him in. To do SOMETHING.
But Curly did nothing and when he tried it was not enough. He should've never recommended Jackholeloserbum for the job. He should've taken Anya more seriously when Jickwit wouldn't take the psych eval seriously. He should've not a good Captain but a good man and emboldened the other men to protect Anya.
He didn't.
When he had legs and arms he did nothing.
Now he is unable to do anything. That's karma.
Something that a certain Jackass would not experience. Fuck that guy.
something something taking no sides is worse than either ever could be or something like that
@@SocksNeedsHelp The classic "Missing step". Everyone keeps mentioning the missing step in the staircase, but also downplays it so much they are "shocked pikachu' face when someone (Anya and Daisuke) trip on the step.
At least Curly was a baked and skinned potato for Daisuke's run in with the missing step. He has that excuse.
But Anya?
Curly dropped the ball there...and he should've just removed the shitty staircase anyways.
... what staircase?
@@SocksNeedsHelp EXACTLY
This video was amazing 10/10 great job it really helps the viewer (me) understand the game much better!😎👍 Thank you for making this video have a good day!
Im glad you liked it
i love this analysis, and i love how you explained everything.
I genuinely think Daisuke & Anya were the most tragic deaths, both made me SOB. Thinking about Daisuke still brings tears to my eyes.
I also think it's so interesting how Curly's eye always follows you no matter where you walk, almost like even though he was blind to what was happening before the crash, now he's forced to watch it all unfold. This game is so beautiful and so horrifying.
also eta: idk if you've heard this 800 times already and im sorry if you have, but the coffin actually has Daisuke in it! you can only see it if you use like a free camera or smth like that tho i dont remember
I wonder if the eye following thing is just a thing jimmy percieved. like curly was the only one with power over him so...
I think there’s a lot to be said about Jimmy. Not that he’s morally complex or anything, he’s a rat all the same, but he’s shown to be a rat in very interesting ways. And I’m impressed at the Wrong Organ team’s ability to show it in nearly every interaction he has:
His lack of power in the ship, his subordinate role to Curly, I think it’s obvious that’s the impetus for his various cruelties, and the very reason he carries out such specific cruelties.
He shoves the medicine down Curly’s throat, violently. Now, I don’t think this is necessarily because he hates Curly. But rather, he enjoys taking agency away from Curly. You have to force his mouth open every time, and I think that’s very intentional.
You see that even more in the sequence with Curly and the valves, where Jimmy literally takes control of every minute part of Curly’s digestive tract, taking even more of his bodily autonomy, of his agency.
There’s also the incident with Daisuke where he violently disinfects him, which is totally unnecessary. Jimmy never had to be violent with him, but it’s the only way he can conceive interacting with another person.
Even at the end, he forces Curly into the cryo chamber based only on his own delusion that he *thinks* Curly wants it, taking away Curly’s agency further.
You can also see this in smaller ways: How Jimmy declares himself captain “for better or worse” without anybody else’s input, how Jimmy makes unanimous decisions without asking, how he enjoys bossing Daisuke around. Even when he puts on a front of magnanimity, it’s always to get something he wants without giving others a choice in the matter.
And then, of course, there’s what he did to Anya. There’s no need to dwell, but quite honestly… what Jimmy did is one of the most violating things one can do to a person. I think that epitomizes what he is at his core.
(Banger video btw, I just thought I’d add my own little bit of analysis since it didn’t get touched on as much. But it was good stuff!
oh I'm keeping track of all your comments to learn for a future video so dont worry about being pushy about it lol
@ I’m excited to see that future video!! The characters and symbolism of Mouthwashing are really deep and layered, and it’s really fun to analyze imo.
Well, maybe ‘fun’ is the wrong word for it. Intellectually stimulating? Rewarding? Cathartic, even? The writing is just really good. Up there with SIGNALIS for modern narratives in games (both horror games too, what’s up with that lol).
just bought signalis a few days ago!
@@SocksNeedsHelp It’s peak, honestly. Take it from someone absolutely obsessed with Signalis (actually working on a STAR cosplay rn), if you liked Mouthwashing you will most likely enjoy Signalis. It’s a longer, less focused experience considering it’s basically resident evil in terms of gameplay (lots of backtracking and puzzle solving, plus you kinda gotta go out of your way for lore and little details sometimes). Just uhhh two tips: Don’t forget the Revolver or your promise.
In the bit about Jimmy forcing Curly's mouth open, you even get an achievement calling you a monster for playing with his mouth opening and closing over and over. Of course it's a funny jest but it's also true of Jimmy for him to do that in the moment
Excellent analysis, the way you described everyone (especially Anya, Curly and Jimbo) was amazing.
@@Neillan thanks!
I entered this rabbit hole just today and y loved ur video, it kept me company ;; gracias totales amiga
Im glad you enjoyed it! im already working on another
26:20 im so glad someone finally acknowledged this
By and far the best analysis of this game ive seen, nothing else has even come close. The amount of scrutiny of every characters actions, reasoning and most importantly using their interactions with one another to double check those results really brought a whole new level to the story! It went from an interesting, unique horror game to a honestly scarily relatable story. Can't give you enough kudos for your work!
Hopefully this lets you put the fixation to rest, and if not maybe a series of shorts covering any missed points you wanted to address would be a good move?
Either way, while I don't have any interest or relation to Risk of Rain, ill certainly be subbing and keeping an eye out for more of your diverse posts! Certainly seems better to throw in whatever interests you so you don't get burnt out at any time. It's more about the execution and results than what the topic is really, but a big popular title certainly can hook new viewers to your channel. Oh! And absolutely no worries taking longer than most to cover the game, lets things breathe a bit. After all every video I've seen on the game barely scratches the surface of the depth you reached, the consequences of rushing it out to catch a fad wave eh?
Now, off to go live my Swansea arc, god help me.
thank you so much for this comment it really means a lot. I honestly think i could've done better and am already planning on doing an updated character analysis of sorts
it hasn't really but thats alright haha
yeah im def gonna work on some more stuff. its finals week in college for me rn so im very very busy but ill hopefully have something non ror2 related out by christmas
@@SocksNeedsHelpI can't see how, bit by all means shoot for the sun, if you think you can do better im happy to see it! Ive seen like 5 videos on this games story and characters and none really went much deeper than surface level, simply summarizing the story and such.
I had a similar issue with SOMA actually, I loooove the moral, existential and transhumanist questions of the game but nearly every video I found was just a story synopsis really. Funnily enough same day I found your video here I found someone who really did that game justice too! Algorithm put in some work for once and suggested TWO fire creators.
Well by all means, feel free to crank out more content on it until it does, I seriously doubt anyone would mind hah
Oooh, I know how that goes! Absolute best of luck on the home stretch! You're a damn beast for maintaining this upload schedule AND tackling college, kudos! Long as you're not overworking and getting too stressed eh? You got this, step by step, day by day. No sweat!
I was super confused for a wile because wile I was watching I noticed how few likes this video has, until now, at 1:27:15 I noticed that it's because it was posted like, two hours ago, and yea now that explains a lot. Great video, I also love this game, and Im happy to see you doing more than just Risk of Rain 2 stuff, Im excited to see what kind of content you will make in the future, don't forget to drink some water
@@HAngelUwU im glad you like it! Heres hoping it catches up in the view department soon
Truly a wonderful video and analysis thank you for the work you put into it and sharing 💗💗💗
Thanks so so so so much!
I just discovered your channel and binged both this and your Zoochosis analysis. Always love a good thought provoking video essay to encourage exercising media literacy and that's just what I got. Good job on the vid and hope to see more!
@@Turtle-Melon thanks! Im definitely working on more to come :)
The algorithm sent me your way after watching Minaxa's video, and I'm glad it did. Excellent video from top to bottom. You also were the first person Ive seen mention the position of the axe in Curly's chair in that sequence.
I love these examination videos 😭, perfect commentary aswell :))
@@ThellDaDev thank you!!!!
I think Swansea breaks the screen because he is so sick of the illusion that the ship is actually functional and the situation has an ending that has the hope of a tomorrow. The game has intent behind everything, even the small things.
i can see that being the case. and idk if I agree tho, i think there are some things that aren't symbolism and that makes it better. makes it feel more real.
Thank you for giving me and probably others a way to experience the story of this game, as someone who isn't fortunate enough to be able to play it for myself. Very touching story and I'm very thankful for your video, I did get 8 ads on the finally watch session for some reason but it's fine haha, I'm happy knowing that the revenue is most likely going to someone who deserves it (:
You gotta get an adblocker homie! Any youtuber would prefer you have an anjoyabke watching experience than them getting paid the like... 30 cents from your view haha
my take is that curley represents the benign evil of corporate management he knows of the horrendous crime jimmy dose but rarther than make paper work works his best to smothe it over and put it behind partly because he personally knows jimmy.jimmy, on the other hand is malignant abuse in the workplace someone who hurts others around them and dosnt see the pain they cause and is so obsessed with control and power but dosnt want to have to deal with the obligations that come with it
thats a good point
one thing
i think polle primarily represents anya. jimmy says hes sexually attracted to cartoon horses. jimmy destroys the polle in the rec room. the horse hallucination comes right after them discovering anyas death. polles text is even in blue during the ending dialogue, and it makes more sense if its read as anya (anya is likely quite a bit younger than jimmy). the responsibility sequence ends with anya herself.
i think jimmy cannot properly face what he did to anya because it is completely unjustifiable, even in his own warped perception. not only that, he also objectifies her. he understands assaulting her was wrong in a way youd recognize assaulting a horse is wrong. thats just my two cents
thats a really interesting idea and I kinda like it. it makes a lot of sense for him to be taking his anger out on the statue since he can't assault anya anymore with her locking herself in the office.
Thanks for the check-ins, they were actually really helpful for me!
@@UnicornInvasion97 yeah i figured some ppl might need them
im so glad you made this video
me too!
I think that the screen always being sunset after the crash might mean that Anya loses the hope and comfort that she will be able to go home after everything
@Astr3-Th3-ALl3n that and whats interesting is that during her final part of judgement, you can see the nighttime window screen behind polle, who represents her. It sort of solidifies that idea of her eventual end being a peaceful escape.
@ Thank you for replying! I think that’s a really interesting detail and I’m kinda surprised that I didn’t notice it tbh I’ve been playing and watching lore stuff for weeks lol ( sorry if the sentence seems weird I couldn’t find the right emoji)
11:00 - ish /// i have a different read on this that's vaguely interesting i think. to me this is an extension of this game's commentary on capitalism. it's showing how the ruling class benefits from bigotry, or all the various -isms. it distracts the unhappy working class from working towards freeing themselves from the bourgeoisie by directing their anger at poor material conditions instead towards an unproductive and harmful place. a clear example is trump's whole schtick of blaming immigrants for everything going wrong, directing the untapped anger of sad people towards a specific group of people. it's easy to point fingers and that's often what the ruling class will do in order to stop the forming of class consciousness.
sorry for the political autism rant and definitely explaining my point very poorly i just think this game's commentary on late-stage capitalism is--while not as much as the rest of the game of course--very interesting
thats a good point. since there's actually 5 men in the show it could support this further. the 5th is lying on the bench asleep, its jimmy ignoring the effects of those things
Historically illiterate take. The "and make mine freedom" cartoon being sampled from here is cold war propaganda extolling the virtues of capitalism, the 'ism' being espoused as a utopic solution to everyone's problems and the "imported double-talk" is communism. Mouthwashing is using this clip first to talk about the ways corporate propaganda enshrines the legitimacy of its structures and sanitises them - the Polle mascot offering simplified moral lessons as if talking down to a child which covers the workplace abuses and unsafe inhumane conditions selected for because abusing one's workers to the maximum is also a maximising of profits. Note that only one of the characters depicted is actually proletarian - the factory worker, as opposed to the petit-bourgeois landowning farmer, the bourgeois factory owner, and the elected official of the political class - so the premise that its representative of divisions within the proletariat fails. By invoking this propaganda from Jimmy's perspective, its showing also how Jimmy's internalisation of competitive capitalistic mindset wherein all accomplishment must be compared against others, eg Curly, and power has to rest alone in the hands of a privileged class (see how force in the form of the gun is monopolised by the captain as well as the capacity to reward or give out leisure in the form of the sweetener through the code scanner) is directly contributing to the tragedy - Curly being able to make unilateral decisions about who to trust set Jimmy up to get away with his misdeeds, Jimmy going unchecked once in the captain's position allowed him to send things further downhill, the corporate policy of collective punishment for "team disunity" and the financial incentives on the proletariat to not rock the boat because of their precarious financial situation makes Curly further unwilling to actually address Jimmy as the problem he is, etc. There's also an irony being set up in the dichotomy between alcohol as disinfectant and alcohol as vice which informs the use of anticommunist propaganda that relies on the imagery of drinkable tonic: communism is 'vice' in that its a discouraged indulgence from on high which 'hurts productivity', but its also an ability to treat wounds, IE, to actually 'take responsibility' and 'fix it'. Similarly, you can read a dual meaning of 'escaping reality' into the presentation of communism here: while the mouthwash is used as 'an escape from reality' IE falling into delusion and refusing to address one's actual circumstances, the communism that's the other side of that symbolic coin is also 'an escape from reality' in that its the ability to acknowledge and change those circumstances by collective effort, which you can read alongside Swansea's dual position as the one who falls off the wagon hardest while also presenting the frankest look at himself in his conversation before death with Jimmy, taking responsibility, and being able to actually set up the cryopod that would give one person the greatest chance at making it out.
Its crazy to see you on my feed a year later from a small risk of rain channel to stuff like this its great
im happy to finally take a step off ror2 for once. the game is good but... i mean after 300 episodes + it gets tiring
I have a lil thingie idk about the feast thing where curly is where the cake is :]
See cakes are yknow sweet, a treat, something good to just have
and I think the reason he was put there (aka curly replacing the cake) is because Jimmy sees being the captain as a sweet, a treat
something he WANTS to have so desperately til he realizes it wasnt as enjoyable as he thought
he was so desperate for the treat, he never thought of the stomach ache afterwards :]
thats a good point. same reason the force feeding section is there, he wants to get rid of that responsibility now that he found out he didn't like it but that's not something you can do
Amazing and splendid video! Love hearing commentary :)
@@Sl33piB0i im really glad yoy enjoyed it!
This is a great video essay! Thank you for sharing your own experience, too.
@@pippi-exe thanks!
The weights and Gameboy are objects that were Daisuke's. They're by his bedroll throughout the entire game. Also while interesting to think that the flowers are in reference to all the dead crewmembers, I personally believe that they are intrinsically tied to Daisuke again. Being a reference to his fun loving, beach boy attitude and even his unbuttoned (implied to be) Hawaiian shirt.
@@mogie_bear5031 yup. Thats all in the pinned comment
37:26
My personal theory as to what Anya and Swansea were talking about was having Daisuke be the one leaving in the pod.
In the same scene Swansea replies to Jimmy's interrogation of Anya which can be seen as him stopping him from interacting with her. In an earlier scene - the Curly birthday scene - Anya and Swansea seemed friendly, her being the only one knowing Swansea actually really enjoys the cake. In a later scene, when Daisuke dies it's very strongly implied that Swansea knows that Jimmy assulted Anya. Swansea was also the one to request that Anya be there for opening the cargo.
This implies to me that despite Swansea's demeaning way of talking about Anya they were friends or at least friendly, and since they were both the only responsible people on the ship they were discussing what to do with the pod. Anya, while valuing her own wellbeing didn't have anything going for her back on earth, and Swansea was the same, and Curly was very likely to die in general. I think they both mutually decided to somehow get Daisuke in the pod. They didn't tell Jimmy about it, because he's the scum of the earth, and they didn't tell Daisuks because most likely he would've disagreed or told Jimmy since he's naive and kind.
So i agree thats a good idea, but swansea is not a good person. He may have had the ability to help and actually took some steps, but he also could have stopped jimmy multiple times in the story. I do agree thats what that convo was about tho
@SocksNeedsHelp I don't think Swansea is a good person. I don't think he's a bad person (simply because there was nothing bad enough he did for me to characterize that way), but I do think he's done harmful things. It wasn't my intention to sound like I thought he was, but I think it just came of that way because it so strongly contrasts with Jimmy who hadn't done a single good thing ever. Also I am autistic so I apologize if I implied things unintentionally, I'm bad with tone.
you're alg. same thing happened to me if you check the pinned comment
The thing that frustrates me most about this game, or more specifically the story, is that all of it was very preventable. It felt kinda very dramatic like all curly had to was take some action against jimmy but he sat and did nothing. One story plot I think of in my head is that if curly and Anya told the others what jimmy did, then they could’ve just knocked him out somehow and put him in the freezing chamber thing until they finish the delivery and then boom. Curly wouldn’t have to harm his friend and no one would have died. My point is, it honestly does not matter because he just didn’t attempt anything.
Anya’s assault is something he should have never taken lightly. Even though he probably did not know to what the extent jimmy was insane and capable/willing to harm others, he knows that someone who sexually abuses others is someone with no self control and is greedy to the extent of ignoring someone’s autonomy
@ଘlଓ-g1w honestly? You'd be surprised how much people can be blinded by friendship and misinformation. Its honestly really bad and I can attest to it. It's frustrating on purpose because its real
The way I've seen male lets players have to be told about Anya's SA vs every female lets player getting it from the lounge convo really says something about gendered violence and how people discuss it.
its... kind of gross yeah.
This video essay is so damn underrated. I love mouthwashing and you do it such justice
@@drathia_ i really appreciate that! Thank you!!!