Doctor Who: The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar - REVIEW - Dalekcember
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- The one where Steven Moffat completely misses the point of the Daleks and writes a remake of 'Curse of Fatal Death'.
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Funny, the guitar and tank scene is the reason that six seperate people i know actually started to warm to capaldi. It was the first time it felt like he had a unique personality instead of just grumpy old man.
I have it in my personal headcanon that Missy just messed around with this one casing and just told Clara that to trick her. It’s better than the alternative xD
There's a very surprising number of batshit revelations in Who that can be just explained away by "the Doctor was lying", so "Missy was just fucking around" isn't that much of a cop out in the grand scheme of things lol
The thing with the casing directly contradicts Asylum of the Daleks too, in that story we see Oswin as a Dalek and she is still able to say things like 'I am human' and 'Why do they hate you' with no side effects
Good point. Damn it, Moffat.
Peter capaldi riding in davros's chair is so funny XD
One cup of tea aside, definitely one of the highlights of this episode.
Question: What did the Doctor do with his legs while he was in that?
@@Jedi_Spartan Answer: He’s The Doctor, just accept it 🤣🤣
yes 100%
12 Doctor: Admit it, you’ve all had this exact nightmare!
A small element that I picked up from this story that isn’t a cop out was the Doctor’s reaction to Clara’s “death”. Missy surmises it nicely: “ The Doctor without hope: we’re all in danger.”
This is nice, subtle set up to the finale. This could also explain why the titles for these stories are so focused on Clara. Since it doesn’t make sense otherwise, seeing as Clara’s not that important in this two parter. Just something I noticed.
Exactly! I figured that about the titles too.
I think The Witch's Familiar does answer "Dr Who's Trolley Problem" in a good way. Save the child and show him a moment of compassion that hopefully changes how he views things. So in real life, if you met someone on a dark path, don't hurt them, help them and show them kindness to allow them to show kindness. It's a good answer imo.
So if you had the chance to save Osama bin Laden so he can grow up and terrorise the world and kill thousands of innocents, you would save him, the doctor should’ve killed Davros as soon as he found out who the kid was
@@greigbutler4498 yes I would save him
"We will explain later!"
Also, my source was vague at the time but has clarified since I made the video, Clara was not only originally not in Series 9 but (apparently) S9 was originally conceived as a companion-less season and I think Capaldi is a strong enough actor to pull it off.
Be sure to comment, like this video and also share it around to appease the almighty algorithm!!
Hey MrTARDISreviews, what was your favorite classic Dalek redesign in this opener? Mine was the new Skaro Daleks, and did you like how the Special Weapons Dalek spoke for the first time?
I had heard the original plan was taking that one gal from Last Christmas (basically proto-Bill) and have her be the companion, Moffat said as much in that Fan Show interview.
Anyone for dodgems?
Also, I found something interesting, I took a screenshot of the new Skaro Dalek in 2012, and I took a screenshot of the old Skaro Dalek in 1963. I have a Google Pixel 1, and played around with the settings, and if I lowered the color of the picture to it max lowering...I got the Original Skaro Dalek, It was the same design brought in color, in 49 years (49 years in 2012, but 56 years in 2019), we have never known what the true colors of the In-Universe Skaro Daleks; Now, There maybe some who may disagree due to the majority of Skaro Dalek action figures and figurines giving a different look, but I think the 2012 Skaro Dalek is the same Dalek Design as the 1963 Daleks, What's your idea for this little, "theory", I have put together? Agree or Disagree, Why or Why Not?
Yeesh. Steven Moffat is such a weird writer. He's written some of my favorite Doctor Who stories (and my favorite Doctor), but he's also written some of my least favorite episodes and doesn't seem to get my favorite monster.
The Doctor coming in on the tank is probably one of the most Doctor Who moments ever. Imagine putting up with the Slitheen, Love and Monsters, Fear Her, the adipose, The Doctor meeting Santa and Robin Hood, and Series 7, but this is the straw that broke the camel's back.
To be fair, Mr Tardis was critical of the Slitheen and has mentioned his dislike of Love and Monsters. I don't think stupidity then makes up for stupidity now.
Crap rubber suit monsters are far more in the spirit of Doctor Who than this though
I agree, the Travel Machines, as Davros originally called them, were not translating hum or or love in to kill kill kill, they were just Tank components to the Kaled race could survive the wars, I did like the Sewer Idea, because what happens to old daleks, do they keep going, or do they break down because after a lengthy time the organics degrade,
Food for thought: "neidr" is one of two common Welsh words for snake, the other being "sarff". Davros' henchman in _Genesis of the Daleks_ was Nyder (which is how neidr is pronounced), and his hench in _The Witch's Familiar_ is Colony Sarff... who is literally a "colony of snakes". A coincidence, perhaps, but (a) Terry Nation was Welsh; and (b) the programme is now made in Wales.
Are you saying there's some connection to Nyder and Sarff? Huh. After listening to I, Davros, It'd make sense that Davros would miss Nyder in some way. Nyder was one of the few people who was devotedly loyal to him til the end.
So you are saying in a show where litteraly ANYTHING can happen.. There where fans out there that stopped watching because he entered a 12th century castle with a tank and a guitar?? It's not even close to the most ridiculous thing doctor who has done
Marius Møller no, that would be the end of the season where Clara flew a diner tardis
Thank you..same concept in the star wars universe lmao.. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.. 🤦
No there were casual viewers who just liked to watch the show from time to time who thought it was stupid and stopped watching
I must admit, whilst Doctor Who fans are more accustomed to the weirdness/ridiculous elements, sometimes I think its important to remember the casual viewer. Doctor Who was at its height (in my eyes) during the Stolen Earth era because it was catered for fans AND casual viewers. I can see why casual viewers would give up. Personally I don't mind it, but I can totally see why people would tune out.
The Tank moment brought in mor fans than it lost, I’m sure! It’s when may of realized that maybe he was even better than 4!
You have to give this story one thing... It will serve as a lesson in how to NOT write a Dalek story.
I actually find that scene with Peter on the tank and playing the guitar badass
26:42 think you missed the point, the Doctor saving Smol Davros is what taught him the concept of mercy. He remembered that moment of mercy and allowed a small part of that concept into the Daleks. That’s literally the point of the episode
Wait what... People _dislike_ the Tank moment?!
I remember dreading the tank scene. You know why? Because Moffat had a habit of making the Doctor random for no reason which made the show even more impenetrable for casual fans. I kept watching because I’m a Who masochist but I was sat with my dad at the time and he was like, “sod this”.
Making the Doctor random and quirky worked with Eleven because that was his established character from the start but after spending a season establishing Twelve is completely different Moffat goes "fuck it" and writes that because the Doctor is cool and wears sunglasses now.
Admit it, youve all had this exact nightmare
Yep mrtardis himself saw this, life is complete
While I do enjoy the Moffat era Dalek stories I can admit that they do have problems. Maybe Moffat just should never have written a Dalek story. Part of the problem, I think, is with the post Time War era Daleks themselves. They are supposed to be so unbelievably advanced and dangerous so much so that they could take on the godlike TimeLords. How do you write a convincing story where they are beaten?
These have just gotten longer and longer
I can feel the madness spiraling out of control
Resolution is such a return to form for the Daleks. Hope you enjoyed that one...
That tank moment feels more like something Matt Smith's Doctor would do.
Well the Doctor was having a party! And all of him was invited.
“Yesterday I was in a bow tie the day before in a long scarf. It’s my party and all of me is invited.” He said it himself.
God I hate this story. I always got the impression that Moffat really disliked the daleks.
I don't even think Steven Moffat disliked the Daleks or that he disliked writing for them. I just don't think he really understood what made them tick, and the fact that all the Dalek stories he wrote came after a lot of his tropes as a writer became more blatant doesn't really do them any favors. The best outing the Daleks had under his pen in a serious context, I feel, was The Big Bang, where a barely functioning Dalek served as the lesser threat to the collapse of space and time and still managed to almost mortally wound the Doctor.
He seemed to take every opportunity to make them unthreatening. His decisions with them always baffled me.
@The Reverse
Same.
@@dmaxwell910901 The Curse of Fatal Death pretty much cements your theory. He took great delight in making fun of our genocidal pepper pots, so it’s no surprise that he’d afford them the same lack of reverence fifteen years later.
.....is it bad that i actually REALLY like the tank scene?
Not at all. I like the tank scene, too; it's surreal and entertaining.
This episode would have worked so much better as a single 60 minute episode, instead of 2 parts. So much filler could have been removed
Weird to think the 12th Doctor became Rick Sanchez in this season.
To be honest that fit better to Capaldi.
Oh my god! If a live-action Rick and Morty ever gets made, Capaldi would be perfect for the role of Rick (either him or David Bradley).
Couldn't the doctor hear clara shouting inside that dustbin? its very cramped and there are vent panels that steam has escaped from in prior stories like daleks in manhatten. How did davros survuve the destruction of the dalek crucible? That really pisses me off that its never addressed, steven moffatt i think gets triggered when that nagging plot point is brought up.
Also paradigm daleks were going to be in this story, BTS photos confirm this as well as a peter cushing dalek being considered but the production team pussed out as per usual.
Tbh I would’ve loved to have seen the Supreme White Dalek in the place of the Red one especially as that one got blown up
Remember when Ian was in the Dalek casing aaaaalllllllll the way back in 1963?
Yeah. The casing didn't mistranslate him then. I get that technology changes over the years, but come on. It's in the DNA of the creature & its programming.
Well, I liked it....
It’s not that I don’t like the Tank scene, I actually think it’s quite funny. I just really want to know, how the hell did the Doctor get a Tank in 12th Century Essex? Does the TARDIS door just magically expand to accommodate for its size? What the hell!
I'll explain later.
TBF, he could've materialised the TARDIS around the tank. We've seen the TARDIS do that before
@@Mrazmatmahmood has he ever materialised around something bigger than the TARDIS exterior though? The largest thing I remember it being done with was an actual police box.
Well he did bring a T-Rex to London once... anything seems possible.
@@SirMeowsAlot89 Tbh, even the logic behind that was a plot hole
I mean it's not even the first time Moffat recycled ideas from the 1999 comic relief special, we already had the Doctor getting married and the Doctor getting tired of saving the universe and retiring (which is in itself a stupid concept when treated seriously)
"I'll explain later" is Dalekcember's version of "there's a simple explanation for that."
I must confess, I loved the tank rock 12th century scene.
Why do people hate it? I love it!
God this is the bad one I dreaded you doing...
What kinda helped my enjoyment of this story was having listened to Big Finish's I, Davros series a few days before. While the Bubby Davros scenes in this don't hold any sort of a candle to it, at least when Davros asks The Doctor "Am I a good man?" I could at least think on Davros' life and consider that he was ultimately trying to do something for the greater good of his people. He's still Space Hitler. But given his circumstances, I still felt sorry for him.
Love this story, and I love the tank entrance. No irony, dead serious.
13:40 hold everything. Davros wasn't lying. There's no evidence that what he said to the doctor, his advice and opinion, was false. In fact it would be very much in character for davros to use the truth of his own views to manipulate the doctor this way.
That is how I like to interpret it, but the way both characters seem to dismiss their discussion as manipulating the other with no indication that either truly meant what they were saying really undercuts that idea.
Can anyone explain why they think the tank scene is bad? I don't get it.
It's not. Mr. Tardis won't have any fun.
It's out of character for Twelve, adds nothing to the story, exists purely as an attempt to be cool and takes up lots of valuable screentime that could've been used for actually telling the story.
@@benw4409 Not really. After series 8 and the Doctor going through his *WHOMST AM I?* phase, this was meant to be a moment of showing him getting back to his lame dad roots like his past incarnations.
While I do agree it didn't need to be as long, its a fun scene to lighten the mood. TBH if the show didn't spend so much time getting to this scene it would've been fine.
Walrus is in the Matrix Because it’s intended to portray Capaldi’s Doctor as “cool” but comes across as a lame, meaningless waste of screen-time.
@@CarlB_1962 comes across as lame? Have you seen the Doctor before? half of his comedic scenes are about him being the lame uncle.
The doctor just rolls in in a Chieftain. Yes that's Doctor Who.
I've only watched this episode twice. Once when it aired and once when I was rewatching all of Capaldi's run before his regeneration, and as much as I just think this story is, meh, I can't dispute your criticisms and totally get where you're coming from. It's clear that as big a fan of the show as he is, Moffat is either not interested or not very skilled at writing for the Daleks. Well except for Into the Dalek. I liked that one.
Also sorry. I love the tank scene! Capaldi is such a musical guy and I got a real kick out of him pulling that guitar out and making it part of his incarnation of the Doctor from here on out. If I'm the only one on the planet who does, so be it!
Agree with a lot of the stuff here, especially the filler in part 1 that was infuriating, but I don’t hate this story as much as asylum. It was great to see Davros back, the scenes with him & Capaldi are really well acted & the scene where Capaldi rides in his chair is fantastic. That & the set design & the classic Daleks do stop this from being completely unwatchable. Still a weak story though.
It’s funny how in some scenes in Davros’s chamber you can see genius of the daleks playing in the back
Honestly, I think the Daleks kinda encapsulates a lot of the problems with Moffat's run (besides the misogyny and weird fetishes): It's just "cool thing" with no payoff. "Wow, these different Daleks from different eras, why are they all together"? "Idunno, just cause". "All the planes have stopped". Why? Just to contact Clara and UNIT. Over-indulgences. Hand mines? Sure, why not? Cool for the sake of cool. Honestly, I've seen some people act like the serialized storytelling was the issue for some reason but I think the issue is that Moffat's just not good at that. At least, not when making another series at the same time. Is it any coincidence that his best came when he wasn't distracted by that other thing? And it's frustrating cause a lot of what he did was genuinely great and these episodes have a lot of that with The Doctor and Davros and...and then there's "The Doctor's regeneration energy can regenerate ALL the Daleks" which only really makes sense after The Timeless Children yes I went there
Although the tank bit was hilarious I don't care what anyone says. But yeah, Moffat just fundamentally doesn't GET the Daleks. The whole issue, summed up. Davros GENERTICALLY REMOVED their ability to feel emptions other than genocidal hatred and superiority. THAT'S why they're like this. They were "programmed", yes, but not the tanks. Those are just tools. This has been made abundantly clear for DECADES. Ehhh, mostly
In just a few stories Moffat managed to undo the great work done for the Daleks in the RTD era. I don't know if I should be angry or impressed.
i actually feel the mutual deception doesn't necessarily undercut the conversation. I believe most of what they say to each other is sincere. Davros cannot know for certain his deception will work. The Doctor cannot know for certain that Davros is being deceptive. You can express sincere feelings for a deceptive purpose.
Am I the only one who likes the tank scene
You aren't. Hell the video on DW's youtube channel has over 1M views.
I don't know who Mr Tardis was talking to about that scene, but that scene was awesome.
Hi there!
I love it! We get his jokes because of the tank!
I bought this tank for my fish! That I got online! Oh do stick around a few hundred years, this stuff will be hilarious! 😂🤣
Okay, i don't really want to defend this story, as it's one of my least favorite Dalek stories, but, to be fair, i don't mind the travel machine thing. If Dalek creatures have no concept of emotions other than hate, then it makes sence that their travel machines reflect that. Like say if an alien species only uses the numbers 1 and 2, then their technology would translate say, 7, into either 1 or 2 as well. The Dalek travel machine translates "i love you" into "exterminate", because the Dalek creature has no concept of "i love you", only "exterminate".
Just food for tought
Yeah, but Daleks can have complex conversations and give detailed directions and we've seen them mention things like love and beauty and friendship before. This idea just comes out of nowhere.
Might sound like a cold question but why couldn't the BBC just say to Coleman "enough is enough" and let her go? Seemed like her flip-flopping was causing them real problems?
Actually, she was all set to leave after the Christmas special, but Capaldi and Moffat eventually convinced her to stay. She wouldn't have stayed for series 9 if they hadn't pleaded her to.
I never understood why people hated the but with the Doctor on the tank with the guitar. It's ridiculous certainly, but its a great kind of ridiculous, all it was missing was a t-rex behind Capaldi with a 'we love vikings' sign! I love it!
On the subject of the cup of tea line am I the only one who thinks the joke could work if they stopped at "Course the real question is where did I get the cup of tea?" and then moved on.
Who are all these people that turned off with the guitar scene? I've been asking people for years about this and scoured the internet but only have your word. I'm not suggesting that you're lying at all, but like you I like to have the facts so what's the number?
I guess I'm the opposite because seeing Capaldi playing a guitar on a tank made me fall in love with him
While I agree with you on the pacing for The Magician's apprentice, the tank scene was absolutely awesome.
To quote a top youtube comment from that scene,
"The Doctor, riding a tank, playing an electric guitar, and wearing sunglasses. Your argument is invalid."
I don't know who those people you were talking but they might have just been boring people.
Doctor Who is at it's best when it's bonkers.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who loved it. At the time I only read How cool was that?!?! Idk who hates it. I'm a sucker for Rockstars so the doctor Rockstars was simply amazing ❤️
To be fair, this episode actually does NOT contradict Moffats big bang episode, even though I thought so too first. After all, the episode DOES explain in the end that the Daleks do in fact have a concept of mercy because the Doctor saved Davros. Additionally the Doctor wasn't there when the Dalek talked to River Song about Mercy, so he could still believe the Daleks shouldn't have a concept of Mercy when he is confronted with the Clara-Dalek.
This story is the perfect embodiment of my frustrations with the Moffat era. There are moments where Peter Capaldi is just magnificent, so seemingly stripped back and sincere. The moment when he talks about trying to be the Doctor, when he proudly declares that compassion festers in him like a cancer? One of my favourite moments of any Doctor. There’s no hiding behind a mask, no putting on a persona, just this old man, trying desperately to be good, laid bare.
But then the end of the episode says it was, at least on some level, an act? That the Doctor was, in part, stalling for time? Frustrating as hell. So much of Peter Capaldi’s era are well-written moments elevated by his performance, only for the story to retroactively undermine them, and it drives me berserk. More and more, I feel like Capaldi is “my” Doctor, but it comes with the acknowledgement that much of that is due to a version of him that exists in my head, the Doctor I feel he could have been, rather than the Doctor and the stories he was given, and it breaks my heart.
Also, interesting note you made about Jenna Coleman leaving. You know who kept convincing her to stay on? Moffat. He says as much himself. All of these last-minute changes to the script are, in part, down to him. It’s self-sabotage!
Anyway, rant over, great review.
I think the Dalek Travel Machine only allowing you to say Dalek things is actually kind of brilliant. The Daleks DO assimilate sometimes. Just imagine, you're captured by the Daleks, shoved inside one of their machines, that only gives Dalek information through the Path Web, and only allows you to say and do Dalek things. It's actually kind of terrifying. It's like being trapped inside a cage of propaganda. How long before it breaks your spirit, and you just stop fighting.
I also think these things were added well after "Genesis", maybe even very recently.
It's a terrifying idea, sure. And there is actually a precedent for it - Davros mentions in Genesis of the Daleks that the tanks can operate themselves to some degree.
The problem is that either Davros switched it off or the Daleks got around it somehow in that same story (it might be explained in the episode, but it's been a while since I've watched Genesis and I don't have all the details memorized,) and a lot of subsequent stories make no sense if the control is back on. It doesn't even fit with the last time Clara turned into a Dalek, since she could speak normally in Asylum.
And the frustrating thing is that this could actually have worked if they'd implied that Missy turned the autopilot back on for this casing in particular just to fuck with Clara and the Doctor - if most of the Daleks were saying those things of their own volition but Clara and maybe a couple of Daleks where the conditioning didn't quite take were driven around by the autopilot and forced to watch as they couldn't stop themselves from gunning down innocent people - but they don't do that.
To me the titles of the 2 parter make completely zero sense.
I'd say they make a decent amount of sense (the Magician's Apprentice is Davros or Clara and the Witch's Familiar is Clara). They're just a bit more vague than usual, which makes sense given they didn't want to spoil what the story is about.
defrostedrobot77 I might take your word for it.
@The Reverse Exactly what I thought.
I know, such a dumb name for a Dalek story. Same goes for resolution
B H Resolution works with the New Years theme
Would rather something else tho
I actually find the “I love you.” thing kinda funny because the mental image of a Dalek saying that is so funny to me.
It's so annoying knowing that ONE simple script change could have fixed the dalek tank translating words by just having it so that Missy PERSONALLY hacks the tanks before Clara gets in it and then lies to her just to mess her about to make the doctor try and shoot her later. It would fit for the Master's character without retconning literally decades of Dalek lore
Watched this episode for the first time last month. I actually loved the guitar scene. I’m actually surprised people didn’t like this scene.
This story should have been a send off to the Davros character. Just a simple character piece. Davros is dying, he seeks redemption from his greatest enemy. That should be it. This could have ranked as a great Davros story, on the level of "I Davros" and "Genesis of the Daleks".
When i saw the guitar scene my mouth dropped... and opened my eyes it was that moment I tuned in to doctor who since David's exit....
I like that they brought back the old dalek designs.
Magicians apprentice was worth it just for the pre-credit scene with the young Davros.
Great video!
I only really disagree with this review on one point. The scene where Missy asks Clara to say "I love you" in the Dalek casing and it comes out as "Exterminate!" never bothered me, because my interpretation wasn't that the machinery was "translating", it's just that the machinery was built only for Dalek use, creatures which can't feel any emotion except hatred by design. The electronic voices aren't the actual Dalek's voice through a microphone, the machinery is vocalising the Dalek's thoughts. The machinery interprets any emotion as hatred because it's circuitry isn't built to recognise it as anything else and that's why it can't vocalise Clara's thoughts properly.
I view Davros' failing to consider giving the energy to the sewer Daleks as more of a sign of arrogance than stupidity. He was so concerned with getting the renewed life for him and his Daleks he failed to consider that those he left below would be included as well. Him underestimating Daleks and Time Lords has kind of been an established trait in a lot of these stories. I also don't think we need to many specifics about what the long term plan with the energy was as it's pretty much implied that Daleks+ regeneration energy=more badass and dangerous so you don't really need much more than that for this story to work.
Given that Davros was talking about how the Doctor may not have actually ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored and we later have the Doctor saying the Hybrid is responsible it's not too out of left field that Davros would mention that here to kind of connect those ideas together.
I buy that Clara would work with Missy here. It's not like she has a whole lot of other options.
Regarding the Daleks given that we already have lore that Davros manipulated and conditioned them to be extremely hateful any additional tampering doesn't really seem to undermine their overall purpose. I also don't really see how using negative emotion to fire gun is that much worse than just thinking SHOOT. It gets the job done either way. As for the changing of the words, I view this more as an insurance policy than suggesting that all Daleks are not being hateful. Sometimes you're gonna get a fluke in there and it's not like this is the first time that a human has taken on a Dalek casing, might as well have it so it will bite them in the butt.
Given that the Doctor is clearly under stress and frustration thinking that Clara might be dead it makes sense to me that he might not notice some of the oddities with that Dalek in that exact moment and might consider shooting it.
The Doctor wasn't around for that The Big Bang scene so we have an out there.
When the Doctor is saying "the DNA of the Daleks" he's obviously referring to the notion that the Daleks would know of the word and would consider it worth programming it into their machines. It's not meant to be taken literally.
"Lacking in themes and character". How is that even possible when there's the whole idea of the question of mercy and the ambiguity of friends/enemies (and there's even the idea of the ultimate goodness of a person continuing on from Into the Dalek). As for character there's just a lot of great bits with the four main players in this one.
I am not confident about the whole amour changing the voice idea. If I remember correctly, the Dalek in "Dalek" spoke with a lot of fluidity that would be blocked out by Moffat's translation idea. Especially with its human DNA, that Dalek had thoughts and such that wouldn't function with that type of tank. It just seems to contradict the Dalek's "brainwashed" point of view that makes them so scary through utter conviction for the cause of purity. That's my opinion anyway.
And I was wondering what you thought about the Doctor saving the child Davros? I know its intent is to show compassion so they may return in kindness. However, as the Doctor knows of Davros' many terrible schemes, surely he knows the kindness he showed did nothing to effect the creator of the Daleks. Did he expect time to be completely rewritten, with the Daleks, who were created for war with their fellow species on Skaro, to be kind? Or did he think that saving Davros was just to keep the timeline in balance? And when Davros met the 4th Doctor, why was he so ruthless when he surely remembered being rescued by the very same person since decades before? This carries through all the evil he has done with the Doctor, as his rescue didn't effect him even slightly in his want to exterminate all other life forms, even when faced by his saviour. That part of the story just never made sense to me when considered as a part of the long history of th Doctor, Davros and the Daleks. I'd like to know what you think.
@@joeduffy4547 "And when Davros met the 4th Doctor, why was he so ruthless when he surely remembered being rescued by the very same person since decades before?"
I don't really want to defend this story, but I doubt Davros would recognise the scarf wearing Doctor he met in the Kaled bunker as the same old Scotsman who saved him on the battlefield when he was a young boy.
@@HazarTulum I thought your point might actually be valid, but I thought I'd check out the scene again and on that Bartlefield with the eyed-hands, Davros can see the TARDIS behind the Doctor and the Doctor even gave the child his Sonic Screwdriver. I haven't watched the Classic Series in full, but I think its same to assume the Dalek Mastermind had seen at least one of the objects and realised who the Doctor is to him. It just seems like a very odd thing to add to Davros' backstory that has a flimsy connection to the canon.
@@joeduffy4547 Oh its definitely a flimsy addition to the canon, I agree. I just don't think that Davros would really connect the two men together like that. Davros didn't see the TARDIS at all during Genesis or Destiny, and I can't remember off the top of my head the first time he actually sees it, but by that time, he's been through so much. Hell, in Resurrection of the Daleks, he knows that the Doctor is a Time Lord, even though he's never heard of that race before this story, so theres probably an unseen story happening in between Destiny and Resurrection. Also, considering the sonic screwdriver, the one that Davros has looks nothing like the one that Tom Baker had. Although it really does bear the question of where the hell has Davros been keeping that screwdriver for all these years.
Totally agree with the rest of your points though
I never got this "The Doctor is dying" story in this episode. It is not revealed where this comes from suddenly, it is never touched again in later episodes and it was already done twice (!) before with Matt Smith. Since Smith was believed to be the final incarnation, it made more sense with him, and furthermore raises the question why the confession dial wasn't brought up back then, but instead now when there is absolutely no indication of the Doctor actually dying, let alone permanently.
I don't mind aged rockstar 12. But Steven doesn't know how to do it right.
This two parter summarises everything wrong with the Capaldi era of Who. A great concept (what if Davros, in his dying days, ends up regretting his creation) ruined by fluff, filler and nonsense. The tank scene is the nadir of the entire revival, utterly embarrassing and the moment that completely killed the Twelfth Doctor in my eyes. The vast majority of the first part is pointless fan service (oh look, Karn, the Shadow Proclamation, Ood!) and every line of dialogue is either a vague metaphor or a "look how clever I am" quip, the worst being the stupid tea cup moment. This is what happens when Moffat has no one to stop him- hey look, I made Davros open his eyes! I made Davros and the Master meet! I brought back every single Dalek AGAIN and wasted them all again! And that's not even getting into the stupid retcon, Clara at her most pointless and the fact that the entire story means nothing because Davros didn't mean a single word of what he said. Capaldi and Bleach are fantastic in their scenes but it's all for naught. Boom Town has a similar issue but I still feel like it was worse here. This was a harbringer for what was to come in the rest of the series but we still gave Moffat the benefit of the doubt until it was too late. Thankfully Chibnall brought back some dignity to the Daleks with Resolution, which whilst flawed at least respects them as an idea and a species.
To be fair the Doctor wasn’t in the scene when the Dalek in “The Big Bang” said “mercy!”
He was in the scene where Davros explained that these Daleks understood mercy though.
Why does Moffat love the idea of Dalek travel machines being responsible for their evil rather than Daleks themselves so much? Not only is it stupid, but it feels like the inverse of how Russel tried to make the Cybermen more like Daleks (with them just killing people and having the stupid "DELETE" catchphrase) -- Moffat is trying to make the Daleks more like Cybermen (people whose "humanity" has been destroyed by technology)
I think I understood the whole suit translating thing but it just wasn't explained too well. The suit tries to understand what Clara is thinking and trying to say but can't due to how different she is from a normal Dalek. She says things that the suit tries to make sense of so it just defaults to what it can understand from a Dalek. So I don't think there's ever been a case of the Dalek saying something different from what its suit meant.
Now for the mercy thing. If the Doctor had heard the Dalek say that in the previous episode, then yes I'd say it was a plot hole but he never did. I believe the twist ending is that the Daleks now have mercy in their vocabulary is due to the Doctor saving Davros as a child. This made a change in the timeline where he allowed that word in and thus it's something the suit can translate clearly and understand. I believe that's the take they were going for from that but like I said it just wasn't explained very well.
The Curse of fatal death is a far superior story to this. You just get the feeling they are trying to shoehorn in some new dalek facts which ruin the daleks in result
The only redeeming aspect of this story is the dialog between Davros and The Doctor. It felt like Moffat took all the bad traits of the all the dalek stories we had and put them in a blender and this was the result...
First of all I do like what they did with the Classic series Daleks with the only chance is their eye piece, I mean yeah sure it’s pretty the same as the revived Dalek ones but they look pretty cool with it, Second never let Moffat write a Dalek story, Third I still don’t think Missy is a great character I’m not saying she’s terrible mind you she just doesn’t do anything for me heck I think The Rani is better than Missy and I bet some don’t know who the Rani is, And fourth I’m expecting anyone to reply how wrong I am on Missy.
Still Missy is a better Time Lady that Jodie Whittaker.
@@mayotango1317 Agreed. Maybe there's less expectations to be a lady Time Lord under Gomez' circumstances but they got to up Whitaker's writing in Series 12.
I never understood why they had to give the Master a sex change when all they needed to do was bring back the Rani.
@@colinp2238 Because the Rani is boring.
@@colinp2238 Because Missy has even less to do with the Rani than she does with the Master. The Rani is cold, detached, and calculating, a bit like the First Doctor when he started out, but with less of a temper and less of a conscience as well. Missy at least has some degree of campyness and flamboyance in common with the Master, but I don't think they really got her "right" as the Master until Series 10, where she got more of a character arc.
I will never be able to comprehend your opinions on the Capaldi era lol
Just for general info, a "familiar" was a being, typically an animal, used by a witch to help them to practise magic. The most popular example of a witch's familiar is a black cat, but it could be any kind of animal or even a person.
Can I confess something? I laughed at the scene where the doctor played the guitar on a tank. God I love Peter Capaldi.
It was 12 having a midlife crisis or something. People just want ultra serious 😂😂😂
@@adamburke4738 And don't get me wrong I love Mr TARDIS but it doesn't mean I can't disagree with him and still respect him.
@@williamhowe1 I wasn’t having a go. Simply made a statement.
@@adamburke4738 I know that.
@@williamhowe1 that’s good because I’m tired of arguing with the Doctor Who fan base 😂😂
TANK SCENE 4 LIFE BRO!
Where’s Terry Nation or Russil T Davis when you need them?
The Magaician's Apprentice is a truly awful episode. It could have just been an extra 5 minutes added to the beginning of The Witch's Familar. Brilliant example of bad writing. Should be taught at media school as to what filler is. God awful comedy too.
Now I have to confess that despite its glaringly obvious faults I find this two-parter ( and series 9 as a whole) immensely enjoyable to watch. The Doctor playing a guitar on top of a tank that rolls into a 12th century castle is so stupid that it just works, the heartfelt conversation between Davros and The Doctor is brilliant up until its revealed to be a trap, Clara and Missy working together is also great but some things are just too illogical to comprehend.
When it comes to the translation I interpreted it as the mutants are so hateful and bigoted there's no need for words such as love to be in their vocabulary bank and that the travel machine doesn't recognize those type of words due to those words never being said by the daleks in that context.
But then what about that scene in Genesis of the Daleks? "Pity. I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank. Exterminate!" Why would the Dalek even be able to say that word? Or what about the dialogue in Dalek? "I fed off the DNA of Rose Tyler. Extrapolating the biomass of a time traveller regenerated me." Why is "Rose Tyler" a part of that Daleks vocabulary?
The Meddling Monk was a villain because he left a toaster in the Viking era. Ace playing a stereo in ‘60s England was considered bad by the Doctor so that scene with the tank contradicts the lore and obviously would actually alter the time line.
I don't think the double crosses cheapen the episode; our brains have still gone through the emotional journey of if it was true, and it does give us that. Maybe it spoils a rewatch, but the initial watch was good. I find that with a lot of Moff stories the initial ride is great, but you can't really go back. It's one-time TV like how it was in the 60s.
i disagree i like this two parter and its pace probably because i grew up on old who and its slower pace, and for me missy is the best version of the master including old who. this is also the best davros since his first appearence in Genesis of the Daleks. i do think how much people like the season depends on how much you like clara
I think classic who still paces itself much better than this story. Classic who takes more time, but it allows for tension to build and worlds to be explored. This story just felt like delaying the inevitable plot, with low stakes throughout.
So, it is possible to say true things while leading your enemy into a trap. And, even though the Doctor and Davros are trapping eachother, it’s possible they meant what they were saying…
To qoute my favorite character, from another franchise, “it’s all true Doctor, especially the lies”.
I loved the tank scene. It was fun and hilarious.
Should've used a Matilda and all the older viewers would have stayed.
...yeah, I’ve no defence for this one. The tank was kind of funny and the Davros bits were cool, I guess. I like punk rocker Doctor. As much as I loved and disagree with you on the Moffat era, I wasn’t too keen on his casual retcon of things, mostly in regards to the Daleks. The only other chair on Skaro is hilarious, though.
Also, shout out to Bubby Davros. RIP FiveWhoFans...
My personal head-canon is that these Daleks are actually from a parallel universe (hey, it’s more plausible than EVERYTHING in these stories), and the Doctor and Missy realised this, with the Doctor also realising the split happened when he saved Davros and had to happen.
Alternately this is the early days of the Paradigm and so they just used whatever casings they have
Next Time: The final Dalek story of this year’s Dalekcember, With a new show runner which unfortunately might be a good thing, One female Doctor, And finally.. I AM IRON DALEK!
Iron Dalek bois
4:20 I came back after not having watched the show since 2010 to this episode and this moment was so baffling to me on so many levels.
They need to bring Julian Bleach back as Davros
This review is really surface level. I don't think that Moffat didn't know how to write for the Daleks but rather you don't understand how Moffat interprets the Daleks. There are a few parts where you talk about how Moffat gets the Daleks wrong but then your explanation is how Moffat gets it right.
Don't think the 'both characters are lying' take is just. 12 is playing it out in the hopes that it is genuine. He just came with a fail-safe, surely.
Boom Town absolutely did it better though.
The problem with Boom Town is that in the end she ends up being a cartoon villain that threatens to exploit the Earth.
That’s just head canon for bad writing. If that’s true then why was true doctor so gleeful when his plan was successful?
Fun fact: moffat initially didn’t want to write the daleks in this story, it was originally only davros, however due to the contract with terry nation, the bbc forced Moffat (for lack of a better word) to write them in, forcing a complete rewrite.
I’m not justifying this story in the slightest, I just find it incredible that instead of just writing a new episode with the daleks in, or just showing them in an episode (like they did in hell bent anyway) the bbc forced this decision!
The structure of this episode reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons, where it starts out one way and twists like, 3 times until it actually gets to the main premise several minutes in
I think he wrote scripts like this for the Daleks because the BBC wouldn't allow him to do what he really wanted and retcon the Time War entirely with it happening properly: Lasting 2 and a half minutes and ending with the Daleks erased from space and time. He's gone on record saying that the Time War was "a bloody stupid idea" and if we saw him do Who without the shackles of BBC marketing we'd have no more Daleks and the Valeyard would have been the final Doctor as Bob Holmes intended.
You make some very good points here. I want to argue against them, but I can't.
I think you've managed to put into words some of the discomfort I felt while watching this story. The doctor's use of an electric guitar and a tank seem to me to be nothing more than a punchline for Missy's preceding comment about subtle clues and minor anachronisms. It should gave had far-reaching ramifications, but it didn't.
Similarly, despite some moments of genius (like Missy pushing Clara down that hole to find out how deep it was), the upending of canon to have Clara trapped in a dalek that warped her words into their opposites felt like a trick.
So, um. Yeah. I think I agree with you.
The davros & dr interactions initially were good, when davros opened up and spoke not as adversaries for the first time, I liked that angle. But the ‘screw the audience’ reveal, not only did it make the scene meaningless, it makes davros into a bumbling fool played for comic effect.
Just really feels like there was potential for some character building, but no, screw the audience, status quo returned.
At least there’s lots of Missy in this, Gomez always brilliant in this roll.
I loved the magicians apprentice. Who hated it? It was fun it's kinda sexy although I'm a total pacifist the doctor on a tank playing the guitar is my favourite scene ❤️😍. Capaldi is my favourite doctor
Damn, I love your work but I couldn't agree less this time. This story has one the best cold opens in the history of the show, Missy is great, the resolution is tidy.
I do agree that the guitar was over the top, and the 2nd ep dragged in the middle but all up I just loved it.
Still each to his own I guess.