Is this it for mortal shell? I think there is still material to cover. Like a video about Brether Corvid and his connection to each shell. Maybe you could examine the weapons and their connections to the religions they came from? I love your work!
Thanks! For now, yeah. I want to take a break from Mortal Shell for awhile, and also just don't want to ruin all the mystery. I'm not sure if you got a chance to see it yet, but I posted the relationship map I used to make this series. It might help others reach their own conclusions.
I always felt like nihilism isn’t necessarily opposed to religion. Organized religion definitely, because like you pointed out nihilism is the belief that life has no inherit meaning, rather only the meaning you give it, and organized religion believes that worship of a god is life’s inherit meaning. But technically one can believe in a god and not worship it, as nothing can stop you from believing in something, it’s a decision you can choose to make and subscribe meaning to IF that is your wish, which I feel like you could argue is a nihilist concept, the idea that you’re choosing to give something meaning, it doesn’t have it by default. Overall really cool video, thanks!
This is definitely an exceptionnal understanding of the brilliant Mortal Shell Lore. You have explained better than all the ones trying around the very essence of this Lore, thank you for this. 👌👌👌
Any videos planned for the Virtuous Cycle DLC and it's massive new swathes of lore? Just finished a playthrough and looking for answers 👍 solid vid homie
This is very good, I’m replaying the game and wanted to get more knowledge about the lore and this couldn’t have been better to get the job done, it’s a very refined job, thank you man
@@TheLevitatingFleem I haven’t even beaten it yet but man.. I’ve been playing for a bit. And I fucking love the world. The feeling of emptiness and desperation. It’s actually insane how much story & meaning is behind this game. These developers are actually genius for making this game & I will support them in the future for sure.
@@rocketscientist14 imagine a sequel in this world, but the same size & length as an actual Dark Souls game. I could replay that for years. really hope this isnt the last we see of this world but based on how well the game did I seriously doubt it is
@@TheLevitatingFleem dude yes. I will be all over an actual triple a quality title Mortal Shell game. They honestly can do environment & world building almost in a better way then fromsoft.. don’t get me wrong I love fromsofts world building but these guys.. they made some pretty dark and twisted shit & I LIVE for it. Cannot wait to see more from Cold Symmetry!
@@rocketscientist14 Oh yeah man, the Eternal Narthax & Shifting Archives were my 2 favorites for sure. Absolutely stunning the whole way thru that area. I really love that area coming up to the entrance of the Eternal Narthax outside Falgrim with all the chunks of stone haphazardly laying around & the hidden Corrupted Sester hiding under the stairs of the tower. And the mines leading up to the Martyr boss fight reeeeally reminds me of the LOTR movies. They could definitely design an amazing world on the scale of DS. If you’re looking for another Soulslike game with really good world design & secrets you should check out Hellpoint. It came out a few months ago & I believe it’s only $5 more than Mortal Shell. The graphics aren’t as good as MS but I still love the atmosphere & level design
This is great, i posted a comment below you Harros video explaining my theory Wich is basically: Harros sees hadern's birth, dies. Hadern is a foundling just like us, and hadern is just his main shell's name. he gets used by the old prisoner and dies after retrieving the mud revered's gland. He then helps us to kill the old prisoner. That being said, i think your theory is a lot better, like, not from a lore point of view, i don't really like the idea that we are a revered and hadern is our guardian, but the philosophy things are well thought and really add another layer of meaning to mortal shell. I also heard there is a dlc for this game in Wich hadern is explained better so maybe after I play it I'll come up with a new theory. Great video anyway, keep up the good work
The Virtuous Cycle DLC has come out with lore about Hadern where it seems to imply Hadern grew and nurtured the foundling? Any thoughts or theories about the DLC?
Most likely not unfortunately, I think the next video I get to for this channel will be blasphemous and then will see from there. Nothing set in stone obviously, but haven’t really had much time, and want to branch out.
Interesting interpretation. Enjoying the game for the first time today, but it’s definitely not gonna convince me to be a nihilist of any sort... no natural phenomenon arises without some cause, and the desire for meaning seems no different to me. If examined biologically, why on earth would we ever have developed some some that there is inherent meaning to anything in the existence, including ourselves? It didn’t come from nowhere. One might say that it gave us a reason to go on living/surviving so that humans could be the dominant race on earth, but it seems to me that it would have been far simpler to just develop the capacity for rationality alone, because evolving some desire for meaning in a supposedly meaningless universe seems like a recipe for compulsion to suicide, since so many people feel that desire quite strongly; to have that hope deferred would make the heart sick, indeed. The idea that *we* give ourselves meaning seems quite out of touch with reality to me; in every other case with regards to our needs and desires, there exists some external fulfillment for each of those things. For hunger, there’s food. For thirst, there’s water. Even for desires that don’t specifically have to do with survival, there exists fulfillments for those, too. (For example, sex exists as a fulfillment for sexual desire, which doesn’t exist in humans solely for the purpose of procreation; if it did, it wouldn’t spark up in us with such frequency. We’d be more like other animals if it was simply about procreation.) The idea that we would evolve to develop a desire for something for which doesn’t exist seems counterproductive towards the end of survival and our dominance as a species. So, I ask: Why assume that it simply arose from nothing? It doesn’t follow the pattern of the rest of our reality to assume this. I’m left to assume that there is a reason we have this desire, and I believe it’s because there does exist some greater purpose for existence. Can this be proven? No. Or at least, I can’t. In truth, I don’t think anyone can prove with irrefutable certainty whether or not such meaning exists, because we’re dealing with axiomatic statements about reality. But it seems foolish to me to entirely dismiss the possibility simply because we haven’t discovered definitive proof one way or the other. What, there’s no proof so it just isn’t real? Does everything need to proven in order to be true or real? People once assumed that black swans didn’t exist... Did they really just not exist until they were discovered in Australia? Maybe (I believe certainly) we all will discover what our meaning is supposed to be one day. All that aside, good video.
Meaning is a very human concept, one that we have tied to objects, our environment and existence itself. It is an idea, it doesn't actually exist. Just like pain doesn't exist, it is simply the interpretation of an electrical signal indicating damage. And don't you think it's arrogant to belive that humans were meant to be the dominant race? Who decided we were meant to be dominant? We did, just like we attach meaning to things that have none. A simple example would be a rock. Let's say you went on family trip and during that trip you found a small rock and decided to keep it as a reminder, a token that means something to you. It means nothing to anyone else, and being a rock it holds no inherent meaning. Everything that we attach meaning to is so subjective and different that each of the 7 billion plus people on Earth see meaning in a different way. It had no absolute. It is relative and is tied to emotion. Emotion only exists in the mind of sentiment beings and does not exist outside. Biology has nothing to do with meaning. It is a process. Everything is a means to an end. There is no meaning, only that which we give to existence as individuals. The more of us that embrace this idea, the sooner we can move away from foolish religious dogma and focus on the true meaning of life. That there is none and that reducing the suffering of others just for the sake of kindness is the real truth.
@@Nomanspie If there really is no meaning to anything, then why should the reduction to suffering be an end goal for us? You say it’s for the sake of kindness, but why is a kind attitude an end in itself? What makes kindness worth pursuing? What makes the alleviation of suffering worth pursuing? If there’s no intrinsic meaning behind any action we take, what makes on act or one attitude better than another? What makes a kind and selfless attitude/action any better than a selfish and cruel one? By the logic you’ve presented, the nature of things like kindness and cruelty only exist within the sentient mind and have no bearing on the world outside of ourselves. They’re not any more real than the sentimental value of a rock that serves as a reminder of where you’ve been. Maybe I don’t place the same value or any value at all on the attitude of kindness for the sake of others. So how could you or anyone claim that that’s “the real truth”? What makes it “real”? From where did you derive the idea that this was real or true in the first place? If there’s no intrinsic meaning to anything, surely truth and reality can’t have any more or less value than falsehoods, right? Do you see how easy it is to turn this reasoning upon itself? If it really were the case that nothing is meaningful, the act of trying to convince anyone otherwise is ultimately a pointless endeavor, unless there was value in doing so. Many people consider the practice of helping people wake up to this “reality” is somehow doing them a favor. It’s typically seen as some kind of enlightenment. But how can it be if there’s no point? Under nihilism, all things amount to nothing, yet we can’t help but act as though some actions are meaningful. Maybe the existence of that desire isn’t proof in itself that meaning exists, but then, where did it come from? And why/how did it arise? If the concept of meaning is pointless, it falls outside the realm of all the rest of nature and reality as we’ve been able to experience it as a truly strange anomaly in the development of human consciousness. If it isn’t real, then it serves no purpose and gives us no real advantage over any other creature. Perhaps that point could be argued, but I don’t think it inconceivable to consider the possibility that humanity could have become the dominant species on earth without having a sense of meaning. In fact, the survival of the species would likely have been more easily achieved and maintained by way of cold rationality alone. The concepts of things like right and wrong don’t always make survival easier for us. This is why I believe that the idea that the concept of meaning came about in consciousness to afford us an evolutionary advantage to be a bit of a leap. We don’t need meaning to make use of the tool that is rationality. This was the point about trying to our dominance as a species. I didn’t say definitively that we were meant to be the dominant race. But we definitely are, and the argument that it arose through evolution and remained in enough of our ancestors to be passed on to us seems more unlikely to me than supposing that it would have been more advantageous to simply develop the capacity to be purely rational, since sentiment can get you killed while cold calculation makes survival easy. In nature, almost every animal makes choices that make survival for them or their offspring more likely. So, under all these assumptions, when our ancestors first started to develop rationality, why did the concept of meaning creep in too? What specific natural challenge needed to be answered by the development of the concepts of worth, meaning and value? The nihilists and naturalists have concluded (as far as I can tell) that there was and is no such need, and it’s simply an anomaly. I am positing that nothing exists without cause, because that’s how the universe works, unless we want to start supposing that some occurrences are simply acausal, in which case, good luck proving that. If I may conclude by asking something: Why did you feel the need or desire to respond at all, or point me in the direction of moving towards what you called “the real truth”? I can’t imagine you did so because you thought it a pointless endeavor? You had to have supposed there was some value in doing so, even if it was as minor and subjective as getting personal satisfaction from schooling me. But I find it interesting that you called living kindly “the real truth”. Kind of an absolute statement, isn’t it? As if what’s true in that for you should be true for me as well? Consider this: Without an objective reality, there can be no shared experiences between minds, since the objective has to do with reality outside of ourselves while the subjective is reality inside the mind, so for the communication of ideas, thoughts, etc. to take place, some measure of reality has to be objective. And we know that this must be the case because people can indeed understand at least some communicated ideas. But if meaning is only subjective, how could we ever suppose that anyone could understand the meaning someone else derives from something or gives to something in any capacity? Why would you suppose that I would be capable of understanding the value you place on kind living? Why suppose I would share that with you? And who would you be to try to convince me of it’s importance? Isn’t it “arrogant” to assume that the value *you* place on kind living ought to be shared by other people? Of course, I don’t see any of this that way, and I agree that kindness is a good thing to strive for and live out, but hopefully you get my point. The sentiment that we ought to treat each other well (or any other sentiment for that matter) cannot be founded on nothing, or else you can’t expect other people to suppose that there’s worth in a sentiment. The meaning you give to something really doesn’t have any value to anyone else unless there is something objective about it. Something that can be shared amongst people and be understood. If there’s not, then we all might as well give up on trying to communicate to others why we think anything holds any importance to us personally; it’s not like it would or even could matter to anyone else in that case. All that to say, I’m happy to have had your input. Keeps the mind sharp, and I love a good discussion, even if it is only through text.
@@micahmartin7759 all your words and I can answer your argument very briefly. Empathy is the reason. We all suffer, we all know what it is to suffer. The universe itself does not suffer, feel joy or any emotion of any kind. Therfore. Everything to us is suffering, and the value is found in the kindness we extend to others. That's it. Simple as that.
I’m not gonna lie, I LOVE that you brought Nietzsche into it. But I mean how can you have a conversation without him, am I right? Anyway regarding the “God is dead and we have killed him” quote you used, I personally feel that this is more accurately attributed to organized religion, as opposed to science. And although I won’t pretend to be educated enough to know exactly how Nietzsche intended this to be interpreted, I do feel that if science is the explanation for teaching us how God works, then religion is a lesson in how God can be exploited. Of course I’m not trying to push this view onto anyone, nor am I condemning anyone who belongs to a religion. I personally believe that religion CAN (if not always or even mostly) serve an individual well, even a number of individuals, but not any society itself. That mode of thinking has the potential to lead to the kind of self-immolation highlighted by the fanatics in this game. I say this to back up your theory about the game’s central theme being a question of nihilism versus organized religion. Even if I arrive at that same conclusion from a different direction. Great video. Thank you for tying everything together nicely. If we didn’t have people like you to do this, it would take people like me YEARS to uncover the true meaning behind this game, if I ever even could.
I just like the game for the swordplay and the first three worlds. But those cinematic graphics are just so damn great! (as i learned later - they are from the trailers) I've seen these for the first time in this here video, and now i realize how much actual story-telling and atmospheric presentation potential is completely wasted. Cause none of it is in the game! I feel like i've been robbed, lol! I guess now everyone in Narthex must die...for the XXth time...
I feel that this was just a taste of what they want to do. The game did extremely well for what it is, so I’d say they have a nice budget to work with now. I’m sure the next game will be a proper game with a far larger map & more ACTUAL lore instead of just teasing most of it or leaving it open ended. I think we’ll be seeing something really special next from Cold Symmetry. If this game was the size of an actual Darl Souls game, I’d never leave my house.
@@TheLevitatingFleem I consider that the avoidance of completely optional gameplay elements, and leaning toward a certain simplicity of the world, as well the fact that this game is reasonably short and nothing feels forced - combined with characters that give you a margin of error - are the game's strongest points. The kind that greatly boost its replayability. You don't need an encyclopedia, or an online walkthrough - and the chance of missing something important is next to zero. You just experiment with weapons and combat strategies, learn how to kill stuff properly, and off you go - play it like a hack-n-slash with enemy respawn mechanics. The far superior combat, always a reasonable possibility of clearing an entire level, streamlined checkpoint locations , - and the fact that you know that nothing is going to cheat you (maybe a little bit in Narthex) - were great selling points of Mortal Shell for me. Something that Dark Souls never managed to deliver. And Mortal Shell looks like a gorgeous dark dream...Dark Souls, in this department...meh.
@@HexenStar Completely agree. & yeah this game is FAR more beautiful that any DS game imo. That being said, the upcoming Demon’s Souls remake looks absolutely beautiful aswell.
Fk... My mind is blow..... I knew there was a reason why I like this game so much. It's story is very rich in story content. I haven't seen a game so complex since the early stages of the legacy of Kain series. I keep playing this game over and over and over just for the complexity of storytelling. I really really enjoy the twists of religious and Shakespearean aspects. At the same time finally something that doesn't put religion under the bus, just states darker sides of its history. Humans will never be perfect, but keep trying.... it's all we can do 🙏
I am completly swaloved by the game. And yep U have to be right cos at the entrance of each temple is a mask in that circle. So U R then an earths answer to infinate War to stop it.
Fantastic. Glad to finally have a framework for understanding this amazing game. Keep up the great videos.
Is this it for mortal shell? I think there is still material to cover. Like a video about Brether Corvid and his connection to each shell. Maybe you could examine the weapons and their connections to the religions they came from?
I love your work!
Thanks! For now, yeah. I want to take a break from Mortal Shell for awhile, and also just don't want to ruin all the mystery. I'm not sure if you got a chance to see it yet, but I posted the relationship map I used to make this series. It might help others reach their own conclusions.
There is a new dlc coming out and you can play as hadren
Hadern is playable and maybe we can get a video detailing his side of things? to prove or disprove the theories in this video
I always felt like nihilism isn’t necessarily opposed to religion. Organized religion definitely, because like you pointed out nihilism is the belief that life has no inherit meaning, rather only the meaning you give it, and organized religion believes that worship of a god is life’s inherit meaning. But technically one can believe in a god and not worship it, as nothing can stop you from believing in something, it’s a decision you can choose to make and subscribe meaning to IF that is your wish, which I feel like you could argue is a nihilist concept, the idea that you’re choosing to give something meaning, it doesn’t have it by default. Overall really cool video, thanks!
Interesting insight, glad you enjoyed the video!
This is definitely an exceptionnal understanding of the brilliant Mortal Shell Lore. You have explained better than all the ones trying around the very essence of this Lore, thank you for this. 👌👌👌
Thank you!
This is so great!
Literally was just asking myself these questions. Great video.
Any videos planned for the Virtuous Cycle DLC and it's massive new swathes of lore? Just finished a playthrough and looking for answers 👍 solid vid homie
Hey are you going to do an update with story from the DLC the virtuous cycle?
Great series here... Loving the game, and these videos have just made me love it more! Love listening to the voice lines from the 4 shells!
Thanks for the update. Great work and analysis! Shame the algorithm is working against you, I think this is one of better analysis series out there.
This series is awesome! Explains it all wonderfully.
Very well done dude
This is very good, I’m replaying the game and wanted to get more knowledge about the lore and this couldn’t have been better to get the job done, it’s a very refined job, thank you man
This is one of the most well done videos on Mortal Shell
Loved this video. All of them. Excellent work!
Keep it up! Cant wait to see what ya do next👍
This is an amazing video, well done.
Im really looking forward to your thoughts on twin sister from the DLC. it really recontextualizes Hadern too
Great job robo. Seriously. Hope this game gets DLC yo
DLC, sequel, spinoff... ANYTHING that expands on this world. Game is hella depressing yet I fiend for it everytime I start another playthrough lmao
@@TheLevitatingFleem I haven’t even beaten it yet but man.. I’ve been playing for a bit. And I fucking love the world. The feeling of emptiness and desperation. It’s actually insane how much story & meaning is behind this game. These developers are actually genius for making this game & I will support them in the future for sure.
@@rocketscientist14 imagine a sequel in this world, but the same size & length as an actual Dark Souls game. I could replay that for years. really hope this isnt the last we see of this world but based on how well the game did I seriously doubt it is
@@TheLevitatingFleem dude yes. I will be all over an actual triple a quality title Mortal Shell game. They honestly can do environment & world building almost in a better way then fromsoft.. don’t get me wrong I love fromsofts world building but these guys.. they made some pretty dark and twisted shit & I LIVE for it. Cannot wait to see more from Cold Symmetry!
@@rocketscientist14 Oh yeah man, the Eternal Narthax & Shifting Archives were my 2 favorites for sure. Absolutely stunning the whole way thru that area. I really love that area coming up to the entrance of the Eternal Narthax outside Falgrim with all the chunks of stone haphazardly laying around & the hidden Corrupted Sester hiding under the stairs of the tower. And the mines leading up to the Martyr boss fight reeeeally reminds me of the LOTR movies. They could definitely design an amazing world on the scale of DS. If you’re looking for another Soulslike game with really good world design & secrets you should check out Hellpoint. It came out a few months ago & I believe it’s only $5 more than Mortal Shell. The graphics aren’t as good as MS but I still love the atmosphere & level design
Thank you, man, really good videos, nice explanations, I would have never seen those things in the game. Keep up the good work!
I loved the series, good job!
I enjoyed this series, thanks! Great analysis of this mysterious game.
Keep it up man love the videos. Honestly great work and excited for more videos in the future
you are very talented sir. Thanks for the video
nice little map! awesome vid, awesome series! a must, after completion!
oh my god this game is a fockin masterpiece. thanks for those analyzing the lore.
Great vid
Excellent work.
So the foundling had the dark soul. Niceeeee
Also just earned a sub! Your thought put into this game is incredible! I never could have made it this far lol
Brilliant 👏
Insightful! Thank you
I just finished the game and this great video have me a good understanding and the closure I needed. Great job!
Very well done keep up the good content XD.
This is great, i posted a comment below you Harros video explaining my theory Wich is basically: Harros sees hadern's birth, dies. Hadern is a foundling just like us, and hadern is just his main shell's name. he gets used by the old prisoner and dies after retrieving the mud revered's gland. He then helps us to kill the old prisoner. That being said, i think your theory is a lot better, like, not from a lore point of view, i don't really like the idea that we are a revered and hadern is our guardian, but the philosophy things are well thought and really add another layer of meaning to mortal shell. I also heard there is a dlc for this game in Wich hadern is explained better so maybe after I play it I'll come up with a new theory.
Great video anyway, keep up the good work
would you considering doing a video on the dlc?
The Virtuous Cycle DLC has come out with lore about Hadern where it seems to imply Hadern grew and nurtured the foundling? Any thoughts or theories about the DLC?
been playing the enhanced edition....and was yearning for some lore
The thing I still don’t get is to why does the foundling ascend, if it represent nihilism?
Will you be doing a video for the virtuous cycle lore? So far I have more questions than answers 🧐
Most likely not unfortunately, I think the next video I get to for this channel will be blasphemous and then will see from there. Nothing set in stone obviously, but haven’t really had much time, and want to branch out.
Interesting interpretation. Enjoying the game for the first time today, but it’s definitely not gonna convince me to be a nihilist of any sort... no natural phenomenon arises without some cause, and the desire for meaning seems no different to me. If examined biologically, why on earth would we ever have developed some some that there is inherent meaning to anything in the existence, including ourselves? It didn’t come from nowhere. One might say that it gave us a reason to go on living/surviving so that humans could be the dominant race on earth, but it seems to me that it would have been far simpler to just develop the capacity for rationality alone, because evolving some desire for meaning in a supposedly meaningless universe seems like a recipe for compulsion to suicide, since so many people feel that desire quite strongly; to have that hope deferred would make the heart sick, indeed. The idea that *we* give ourselves meaning seems quite out of touch with reality to me; in every other case with regards to our needs and desires, there exists some external fulfillment for each of those things. For hunger, there’s food. For thirst, there’s water. Even for desires that don’t specifically have to do with survival, there exists fulfillments for those, too. (For example, sex exists as a fulfillment for sexual desire, which doesn’t exist in humans solely for the purpose of procreation; if it did, it wouldn’t spark up in us with such frequency. We’d be more like other animals if it was simply about procreation.) The idea that we would evolve to develop a desire for something for which doesn’t exist seems counterproductive towards the end of survival and our dominance as a species. So, I ask: Why assume that it simply arose from nothing? It doesn’t follow the pattern of the rest of our reality to assume this. I’m left to assume that there is a reason we have this desire, and I believe it’s because there does exist some greater purpose for existence. Can this be proven? No. Or at least, I can’t. In truth, I don’t think anyone can prove with irrefutable certainty whether or not such meaning exists, because we’re dealing with axiomatic statements about reality. But it seems foolish to me to entirely dismiss the possibility simply because we haven’t discovered definitive proof one way or the other. What, there’s no proof so it just isn’t real? Does everything need to proven in order to be true or real? People once assumed that black swans didn’t exist... Did they really just not exist until they were discovered in Australia? Maybe (I believe certainly) we all will discover what our meaning is supposed to be one day.
All that aside, good video.
Meaning is a very human concept, one that we have tied to objects, our environment and existence itself. It is an idea, it doesn't actually exist. Just like pain doesn't exist, it is simply the interpretation of an electrical signal indicating damage.
And don't you think it's arrogant to belive that humans were meant to be the dominant race? Who decided we were meant to be dominant? We did, just like we attach meaning to things that have none.
A simple example would be a rock. Let's say you went on family trip and during that trip you found a small rock and decided to keep it as a reminder, a token that means something to you. It means nothing to anyone else, and being a rock it holds no inherent meaning.
Everything that we attach meaning to is so subjective and different that each of the 7 billion plus people on Earth see meaning in a different way. It had no absolute. It is relative and is tied to emotion. Emotion only exists in the mind of sentiment beings and does not exist outside.
Biology has nothing to do with meaning. It is a process. Everything is a means to an end. There is no meaning, only that which we give to existence as individuals.
The more of us that embrace this idea, the sooner we can move away from foolish religious dogma and focus on the true meaning of life. That there is none and that reducing the suffering of others just for the sake of kindness is the real truth.
@@Nomanspie If there really is no meaning to anything, then why should the reduction to suffering be an end goal for us? You say it’s for the sake of kindness, but why is a kind attitude an end in itself? What makes kindness worth pursuing? What makes the alleviation of suffering worth pursuing? If there’s no intrinsic meaning behind any action we take, what makes on act or one attitude better than another? What makes a kind and selfless attitude/action any better than a selfish and cruel one? By the logic you’ve presented, the nature of things like kindness and cruelty only exist within the sentient mind and have no bearing on the world outside of ourselves. They’re not any more real than the sentimental value of a rock that serves as a reminder of where you’ve been. Maybe I don’t place the same value or any value at all on the attitude of kindness for the sake of others. So how could you or anyone claim that that’s “the real truth”? What makes it “real”? From where did you derive the idea that this was real or true in the first place? If there’s no intrinsic meaning to anything, surely truth and reality can’t have any more or less value than falsehoods, right?
Do you see how easy it is to turn this reasoning upon itself? If it really were the case that nothing is meaningful, the act of trying to convince anyone otherwise is ultimately a pointless endeavor, unless there was value in doing so. Many people consider the practice of helping people wake up to this “reality” is somehow doing them a favor. It’s typically seen as some kind of enlightenment. But how can it be if there’s no point? Under nihilism, all things amount to nothing, yet we can’t help but act as though some actions are meaningful. Maybe the existence of that desire isn’t proof in itself that meaning exists, but then, where did it come from? And why/how did it arise? If the concept of meaning is pointless, it falls outside the realm of all the rest of nature and reality as we’ve been able to experience it as a truly strange anomaly in the development of human consciousness. If it isn’t real, then it serves no purpose and gives us no real advantage over any other creature. Perhaps that point could be argued, but I don’t think it inconceivable to consider the possibility that humanity could have become the dominant species on earth without having a sense of meaning. In fact, the survival of the species would likely have been more easily achieved and maintained by way of cold rationality alone. The concepts of things like right and wrong don’t always make survival easier for us. This is why I believe that the idea that the concept of meaning came about in consciousness to afford us an evolutionary advantage to be a bit of a leap. We don’t need meaning to make use of the tool that is rationality. This was the point about trying to our dominance as a species. I didn’t say definitively that we were meant to be the dominant race. But we definitely are, and the argument that it arose through evolution and remained in enough of our ancestors to be passed on to us seems more unlikely to me than supposing that it would have been more advantageous to simply develop the capacity to be purely rational, since sentiment can get you killed while cold calculation makes survival easy. In nature, almost every animal makes choices that make survival for them or their offspring more likely. So, under all these assumptions, when our ancestors first started to develop rationality, why did the concept of meaning creep in too? What specific natural challenge needed to be answered by the development of the concepts of worth, meaning and value? The nihilists and naturalists have concluded (as far as I can tell) that there was and is no such need, and it’s simply an anomaly. I am positing that nothing exists without cause, because that’s how the universe works, unless we want to start supposing that some occurrences are simply acausal, in which case, good luck proving that.
If I may conclude by asking something: Why did you feel the need or desire to respond at all, or point me in the direction of moving towards what you called “the real truth”? I can’t imagine you did so because you thought it a pointless endeavor? You had to have supposed there was some value in doing so, even if it was as minor and subjective as getting personal satisfaction from schooling me. But I find it interesting that you called living kindly “the real truth”. Kind of an absolute statement, isn’t it? As if what’s true in that for you should be true for me as well? Consider this: Without an objective reality, there can be no shared experiences between minds, since the objective has to do with reality outside of ourselves while the subjective is reality inside the mind, so for the communication of ideas, thoughts, etc. to take place, some measure of reality has to be objective. And we know that this must be the case because people can indeed understand at least some communicated ideas. But if meaning is only subjective, how could we ever suppose that anyone could understand the meaning someone else derives from something or gives to something in any capacity? Why would you suppose that I would be capable of understanding the value you place on kind living? Why suppose I would share that with you? And who would you be to try to convince me of it’s importance? Isn’t it “arrogant” to assume that the value *you* place on kind living ought to be shared by other people?
Of course, I don’t see any of this that way, and I agree that kindness is a good thing to strive for and live out, but hopefully you get my point. The sentiment that we ought to treat each other well (or any other sentiment for that matter) cannot be founded on nothing, or else you can’t expect other people to suppose that there’s worth in a sentiment. The meaning you give to something really doesn’t have any value to anyone else unless there is something objective about it. Something that can be shared amongst people and be understood. If there’s not, then we all might as well give up on trying to communicate to others why we think anything holds any importance to us personally; it’s not like it would or even could matter to anyone else in that case.
All that to say, I’m happy to have had your input. Keeps the mind sharp, and I love a good discussion, even if it is only through text.
@@micahmartin7759 all your words and I can answer your argument very briefly.
Empathy is the reason. We all suffer, we all know what it is to suffer. The universe itself does not suffer, feel joy or any emotion of any kind.
Therfore. Everything to us is suffering, and the value is found in the kindness we extend to others. That's it. Simple as that.
I believe there is a Dlc for the game in not sure if it has any extra lore or anything in it as I haven't played it yet
Really great theory.. and one that I now feel is the closest fit for the game. Amazing how you can analyse all this.
Almost seems like when you start the game as a “seed” you crawl out of the hole you were planted in.
Wonderful.
I’m not gonna lie, I LOVE that you brought Nietzsche into it. But I mean how can you have a conversation without him, am I right?
Anyway regarding the “God is dead and we have killed him” quote you used, I personally feel that this is more accurately attributed to organized religion, as opposed to science. And although I won’t pretend to be educated enough to know exactly how Nietzsche intended this to be interpreted, I do feel that if science is the explanation for teaching us how God works, then religion is a lesson in how God can be exploited.
Of course I’m not trying to push this view onto anyone, nor am I condemning anyone who belongs to a religion. I personally believe that religion CAN (if not always or even mostly) serve an individual well, even a number of individuals, but not any society itself. That mode of thinking has the potential to lead to the kind of self-immolation highlighted by the fanatics in this game.
I say this to back up your theory about the game’s central theme being a question of nihilism versus organized religion. Even if I arrive at that same conclusion from a different direction.
Great video. Thank you for tying everything together nicely. If we didn’t have people like you to do this, it would take people like me YEARS to uncover the true meaning behind this game, if I ever even could.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! It's interesting to see other people's conclusions
Nietzsche was referring to Darwin and the fallout.
I need more about hadern
I just watched all those vids after finishing Mortal Shell. It was really helpful because the story literally made 0 sense to me while playing it.
I just like the game for the swordplay and the first three worlds. But those cinematic
graphics are just so damn great! (as i learned later - they are from the trailers) I've seen these
for the first time in this here video, and now i realize how much actual story-telling and
atmospheric presentation potential is completely wasted. Cause none of it is in the game!
I feel like i've been robbed, lol! I guess now everyone in Narthex must die...for the XXth time...
I feel that this was just a taste of what they want to do. The game did extremely well for what it is, so I’d say they have a nice budget to work with now. I’m sure the next game will be a proper game with a far larger map & more ACTUAL lore instead of just teasing most of it or leaving it open ended. I think we’ll be seeing something really special next from Cold Symmetry. If this game was the size of an actual Darl Souls game, I’d never leave my house.
@@TheLevitatingFleem I consider that the avoidance of completely optional gameplay elements, and leaning toward a certain simplicity of the world, as well the fact that this game is reasonably short and nothing
feels forced - combined with characters that give you a margin of error - are the game's strongest points.
The kind that greatly boost its replayability. You don't need an encyclopedia, or an online walkthrough -
and the chance of missing something important is next to zero. You just experiment with weapons and combat strategies, learn how to kill stuff properly, and off you go - play it like a hack-n-slash with enemy respawn mechanics. The far superior combat, always a reasonable possibility of clearing an entire level,
streamlined checkpoint locations , - and the fact that you know that nothing is going to cheat you (maybe
a little bit in Narthex) - were great selling points of Mortal Shell for me. Something that Dark Souls
never managed to deliver. And Mortal Shell looks like a gorgeous dark dream...Dark Souls, in this department...meh.
@@HexenStar Completely agree. & yeah this game is FAR more beautiful that any DS game imo. That being said, the upcoming Demon’s Souls remake looks absolutely beautiful aswell.
Fk... My mind is blow..... I knew there was a reason why I like this game so much. It's story is very rich in story content. I haven't seen a game so complex since the early stages of the legacy of Kain series. I keep playing this game over and over and over just for the complexity of storytelling. I really really enjoy the twists of religious and Shakespearean aspects. At the same time finally something that doesn't put religion under the bus, just states darker sides of its history. Humans will never be perfect, but keep trying.... it's all we can do 🙏
I am completly swaloved by the game. And yep U have to be right cos at the entrance of each temple is a mask in that circle. So U R then an earths answer to infinate War to stop it.
540 subs??!??? THE HELL?
It sounds like you play as the god of death
Fredrick Niche went crazy towards the end of his miserable life quoting the Bible … I guess God killed him huh
Me trying to understand Mortal Shell... uhhhhhh dead things = nasty smell.
totally gnostic and kabalistic