Compatible or...T-Type FLATTOP CHAINS vs Road - SRAM 12s T-Type AXS, Red, Force, Rival, XX, GX, X01
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Compatible or DIFFERENT? ROAD vs T-Type 12s CHAINS, side-by-side. They're supposed to be VERY different. Here is a SRAM Rival AXS 12s chain next to a XX #srammtb 12s AXS #eagle T-Ttype #transmission What do you think?
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⌚Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:39 Flattop Chains are different
01:21 Road vs MTB Flattop - exterior
02:42 Interior dimensions
03:31 Measuring the rollers
04:46 Different?
05:29 Price difference? Conclusions
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I've done a similar comparison with both T-Type and road flat tops using a precision micrometer/calipers and am convinced that they are the same minus any possible differences in coatings (PVD, etc.) like you mentioned. The quick links for both are also identical.
Thanks for sharing your findings! Not to mention that from a manufacturing standpoint it doesn’t make any sense to have 2 slightly different products/ processes / machinery etc
I love bikes, but the bike industry is ridiculous.
Designed to fleece the very people who support them.
It’s going to change soon. Tough times ahead for the industry
Is it ridiculous that the Red chain is more expensive than the Rival? Because that's essentially the comparison here.
100% agree
Road chains usually are 6 links shorter, so you may need two road chains on one mtb.
But the price difference covers that too))
That is true, Rival is 120 links, XX is 126 but 120 would probably be enough for quite a few bikes!?
Probably would only be an issue on some XL full sus bikes
@@_Zane__ also an issue for Forbidden's Druid and Dreanouught V1
No it's more expensive. A GX T type chain is $50. Rival is the same level as GX.
Thanks for sharing this analysis. Very useful !
Glad to help
Thanks a lot for this comparison.
Very good video and informations!!! It's the big players always trying to get more advantages...
Ain’t that right…thanks 🙏
Very Interesting, thank you for your Video! I build a MTB for my wife, instead of eagle 10-52 with XPLR Road 10-44. I did not know, that the T-Type chain is not running on Sync 2 chainring. So I can be sure now, that it will work with a quarq crankset and Transmission chainring.
Thanks. That’s an interesting combo! Enjoy 😊
If @LoveMTB goes missing we better start asking questions!!!
LOL😇
I'm interested in your real-world results. I will say I noticed you quoted an XX Eagle chain vs a Rival chain. It would likely be a better comparison to use XX vs Red. That said, a quick google search shows Red Flat top is $75, so still considerably cheaper than the XX Eagle Transmission chain. We should also note, that the XX is 126 links vs 114 for Red.
I think the amount of links is the most important thing, I have helped quite a few people set up chains and I have yet to see anyone in the 114 link zone. Lowest I have seen is 116.
Thanks for this video. I am going to give the force chain a shot on the fat bike. Let's see how it goes.
Please do! Especially on the fat😊
Worth the try, curious
The fact that you can still create mullet setups with a Red/Force/Rival crankset/chainring and an XXSL/XX/XO/GX cassette and rear derailleur makes it clear they are cross compatible for at least non-motorized bikes.
Should do a video where you try both chains on a mtb and a road bike to see if there’s any performance differences. Especially while shifting under load.
I'll do that once I have the T-Type installed. No road 12s that I can get my hands on though.
According to Zero Friction Cycling, which also made a video about the differences in this chains, the MTB Flat Top version is more resistant to change gears under high power. Adam said he obtained this information from SRAM. There might be a difference in the pin, something to justify. But it was not proven yet, it's only SRAM information.
Yeah love his vids even though sometimes he mixes things up 🙂 Could be for high torque eBike applications that these drivetrains...ahem, transmissions are comatible with?
@@LoveMTB All the chains must have at least 8000N of tensile strenght. But this is tested in a chain supported in multiple teeths in the cogs and alligned. When changing gears the tensile strenght might be very reduced. That's why most of the chain snaps happens when the rider is changing the gears. Even in a not assisted bike, this chain must be more resistant to be able to change gears under power.
@@jorgelucascoutoThe tensile strength during shifting is between 750 and 1000 Newtons .
@@LoveMTBOn some videos he presents , he looks a bit tired and may have had a long day of work and tasks to complete .
@@LoveMTBI have some long days ahead with the Christmas rush . Work to finish , builds etc .
I knew it. Lying bastards. It’s all been a cash grab! Unfortunately my bike needs 116 links so I’m stuck buying the more expensive option either way.
Thank you for finally making this video. I’m amazed it took anyone this long to do it. Cheers
You're welcome! BTW that Rival chain comes with 120 links...😉
The GX level transmission chains are similar price to the Rival ones.
Expensive and all, but XX1 is the best chain I have used
Rival is basically the road equivalent of GX. The GX chain is $50 USD MSRP so the prices are actually about the same.
Rival chains are €18-25 and GX type T is €45-60. I've looked it in three of the most popular online-stores in Germany. Pricewise Rival is equivalent of old GX chains, wich are around €20.
Instead of one GX type T chain, you can buy Red for the same money.
@@RomanE_____ that’s sale price since SRAM has too much inventory they can’t sell.
@@drunken_moose Who cares is it "sale" price or not since it's the only one you can see in stores for a long time?))
@@RomanE_____ because the video was going off msrp duh
Hey can you do a compatibility video with old cassettes and t type derailleurs. I saw people putting spacers to bump old Xo1 cassettes out and it actually working with the new derailleurs. I also saw remy metailler had this setup installed on his r bike. If so that would be awesome. I can’t afford to buy the whole system all at once. Thanks 🙏
Hey there, I will actually not do that. Take a look in this video, you will see how the new chain doesn't sit snug on the cassete visible with the naked eye. As for spacers etc...realistically not interested in an unreliable expensive mess, sorry.
@@LoveMTB I was asking old chain, old cassette. A lot of people have been wondering about it and seemed like a pretty quick and easy video to tackle since you’ve got all the parts. Not asking you to run “the expensive mess” permanently. Seemed like it was up your alley. Sorry for asking I guess.
@@loganjacobson2335 why is everyone so sensitive these days? Geeez🤔
@@LoveMTB dang dude. Really have been a supporter of the channel for years now. Just throwing suggestions out there. No clue why you had to be rude about it
@@loganjacobson2335 can’t win tonight I’m going to shut up 😊
A video with actual measurements? I'm in.
Question: why is flat top chain flat top?
you're welcome🤓
Narrower chain = weaker. So they made up for the lost strength by using more material/ taller plates on one side. And they look cool!?😊
Maybe the internal pin is different? Stronger on the T-Type? I'm surprised you didn't check if there was a weight difference. You usually always break out the "JOY RIDE" scale.
Yup my Joyride 150! One had wax on it and hollow pins, the other one doesn't. So the weight difference wouldn't reavelam much meaninful data. For me is the secrecy...why not tell us what the differences are from the getgo? Like Shimano did with the GRX 12s vs MTB HG+. They came out from day one and said all the same, have at it!
Very interesting vid thank you!!! I think your on to something with the more chrome plating on the t-type chain,just like shamano the more exspensive the chain the more sil tech coating is used...I think sram pushes it with their pricing ouch!!!Cheers!!
Have Sram done away with the hollow pin on the top end T type chains ?
Still hollow but filled up with wax on that chain 🤓
You said on this video the new ttype chain is compatible with the previous eagle chain rings. Is this confirmed by sram? Or your opinion and testing? I thought your chain ring video left the question unconfirmed.
It will work just fine from my testing, others use the Eagle cranks because the already have power meters on them also. No visible differences between the chainrings either
Thanks for the fast response. Good to know 👍
been running the rival chain on my ebike for 2 months now. no problem at all. its a scam that they charge 3x more for the mtb specific chains lol!
Thanks for sharing👍
accd to the sram road chain it is only 114links compared to the 126L for the mtb
Yeah but that's not a difference. Many bikes/ MTB would be ok with 114 links.
wow nice too know
whoo, 4 times expensive than flat-top, I'm still using the 15 usd M6100 chains.
Hey! Are you really sure the chains are the same pitch? Have you measured it hanging side by side? Because T-Type chain has definitely a hair longer pitch. I was always measuring wear of chain by marking the length of hanging chain and comparing before each waxing. Brand new T-Type was approx the same length as classic Eagle after 1500km (lets say 1/3 of it lifetime). Recently, I have also measured another X0 T-type with the same results. I was also measuring the road D1 chain on my friend's bike using caliper (measuring pin to pin distance using the edge between pin and the plate) and it shows exactly 6 inches so it seems like the classic pitch. In case of my T-Type I can clearly see that it is a bit over. I'm quite sure that this might be the crucial difference.
Pitch is the same rollers are bigger on Flattop as you see in the video
@@LoveMTB Actually, I don't se you measuring the chain pitch in the video at all. Can you point me there? I have just spotted you mentioned the enlongated plates (not sure if you mean bigger pin to pin distance). I think the only way is "hanging" the chains side by side. New ones optimally (e.g. all washed berore waxing) and comparison of original Eagle, D1 and T-Type might be interesting.
@@LoveMTB So I finally ordered one D1 chain for test by hanging side by side and it is definitely shorter than T-Type and thus it has longer pitch (not surprise for me). What really surprised me is that D1 is even shorter (smaller pitch) than 12sp Eagle chain. I can send you pictures if you want.
@ Thanks for doing all these tests! I have a road chain ready to go on the t-Type but I will do that later in the season. BTW as per SRAM, chain pitch is the same on all of these.
@@LoveMTB Some update - I was measuring the pitch on individual links and it looks this is still the very 1/2". But the chain is definitely longer (about 4mm on 120 links - try it if you can), which means there is more slop - probably bigger play between pins and inner links (which then behaves the same as bigger pitch). D1 and T-Type are definitely not look interchangeable to me and there seems to be some internal design change as SRAM states. D1 might work but I would probably wear faster, similar as you use a new chain on already worn cassette/chainring a tradition drivetrain.
The worst thing to happen to the bike industry after covid was Greed
today I will try the old xx1 on t type, then I will write
Perfect!
How you use the caliper kinda hurts a lot. You must measure at the same spot on the caliper and not measure some a few cm higher or lower
Believe me it was good enough for the point I was trying to make 😊
I hope you measured of camera in a better manner for validation because you are measuring a chain which is already a small part especially with 12s. So a few 0.1mm difference can really make a difference. Just take hub parts for example. There the tolerances are insanely important. So if you would measure for compatibility of parts on a hub the measurement you were taking would be not usable. I am interested to see if they will bring T type to road with the next red groupset. Btw. ZFC (Zero Friction Cycling) is also saying that he believes the chains are compatible but hasent tested it himself @@LoveMTB
What about weight difference?
Comparable, did not weight as one has hollow pins and full of was the other one has none of that
CHROME PLATED VS CHROME HARDENED !
Good comparison on the measurements but if you are going to compare prices at least choose the same levels in the hierarchy!
That's comment baiting at its finest!
What can I say…hard to please everyone.
@LoveMTB who are you not pleasing by doing the price comparison properly?
Would you make the same video saying Dura-ace chains are more expensive than Deore chains therefore Shimano charge more for their road chains?
Can you make CC for Vietnamese
Done!!! Enjoy
just checked online.. rival chain is half the price of GX T-type chain.. so anyone tried the rival chain on their t-type transmission?
It is the same chain…
It is the same chain…
@@LoveMTB the dimensions and weights might be the same.. but i wonder if there are nooks and crannies in the chain that make them incompatible.
Higly doubt it, chains are pretty simple devices you know?@@armanrivera4116
@@LoveMTB i thought so too.. until i read up on gates, ramps, chamfers, etc on chains and cassettes.
Marketing.
Yikes
😂😂🤣🤣👍🏆
Cannot see SRAM lying here, since they just did not answer.
Well...T-Type is VERY different than road Flattop vs " Even though they have the same physical dimensions they are built to different standards so we recommend sticking with T-Type for MTB" etc. DO you see a difference? 😉
@@LoveMTB Oh they actually wrote it like that. I stand corrected 👍