The Genius of Narrow Wide Chainrings - Why they work!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- The 'narrow-wide' chainring is a drive gear for a bicycle that features an alternating tooth profile. This is to say, one tooth is wide, and the next is narrow just like a bicycle chain. Today we'll watch slow motion footage demonstrating why these gears are so effective at keeping your chain on.
Eric @BCpov mentioned on our Substack how Ghel patented a very similar gear back in 1978 for heavy machinery. That patent has since expired, and is owned by Manitou. patents.google.com/patent/US4...
Free yourself from the algorithm and join us on Substack! 🚲 bermpeak.substack.com
Videos 2 weeks early • Exclusive articles • Discussions • You’re in control!
The Berm Peak Ranger Station on Airbnb 🏡 www.airbnb.com/rooms/50301108...
Berm Peak Hoodies, Beanies, Jerseys, Shirts
cognativemtb.com/collections/...
Want us to review your unique mountain bike or outdoor product? www.sethsbikehacks.com/produc...
Check out our main channel / sethsbikehacks
Follow me on Instagram / sethsbikehacks
Berm Peak Merch cognativemtb.com/collections/...
Music in this video is from
share.epidemicsound.com/trQSg - Навчання та стиль
I used to work with a pro shimano mechanic. He says narrow wide chainrings have been around in large machinery for ages. This made it hard for bike companies to patent this as it already existed, and everyone could start making them.
Id have to dig into this more, but makes sense!
Isn't the reason why these arrived on bikes so late the front derailleur? By their nature, NW rings don't work with a front derailleur. As soon as Sram had enough gear range to ditch the front derailleur, they put a narrow-wide on there.
Yes, narrow-wide concept is from 1978 patent, expired in 1998. That's why everyone can make their own NW chainrings without infringing SRAM patents (as long as they not fully copy their tooth profile)
as well as bicycles with skip tooth. schwinn sweet tooth as a great example
He gives sram way too much credit here in a dangerous way I feel. Sram are very litigious and have a history of predatory IP practices when it comes to smaller brands. The messaging here serves to reinforce and enable that kind of behaviour on their part.
@@kailashblades I actually like SRAM stuff.. but the 2008 x7-9 stuff my Gary Fisher Paragon was equipped with is way better than the 2020 XCaliber 8
This is so interesting.
Also made me aware of the fact that I have been riding with the clutch OFF all the time, lol.
Clutch Off can improve shifting and drivetrain efficiency compared to clutch on due to there being less tension on the chain which makes the derailleur move a little easier.
So if you're not having any problems with chains dropping, clutch off is perfectly fine.
On Shimano, you also have to service the clutch every so often.
I only put the clutch on when going on a wildly bouncy gravel/short track. It's always off otherwise.
@@sebastianjost
Yeah mine shifts noticeably easier with the clutch off, less effort required to physically push the shift levers, especially up.
This is the first I've heard of a clutch. Now I gotta go look at my bike lol. I was going to ask can you still shift with it on but it sounds like you can. It's crazy how much I've ridden and yet no nothing about my bike 🤦
@@rickymahoney6664I didn't even know my bike had one. It's been on since I bought it. I went straight out and looked for it after watching this 😅
Was about to go panic check my bike to make sure the chain is lined up on the right teeth 😂 glad this system is dummy proof. Interesting video as always
haha, same here...but then I instantly learned something...
Congrats on 1 million subs, Seth! Well and truly deserve them.
His primary channel has 2.5 million subs.
@@Iosis6 I know
Well... except for subscriber 911,267. He was more trouble than he was worth.
@@BlairAirwho is that?
Don't underplay your tests Seth.
You ran a test and you presented the evidence with reasonable conclusions taken from what we all can see.
Keep it up 👊🏼
Ya, he was quite scientific in reality.
i work on my bike all the time and i really like learning new things about working on my bike. thank you seth again for another great and informational video.
And here I am still rocking 3 chain rings at the front in my old mountain bike 🙁
I recently upgraded my old drive train to a one-by. Best mtb decision I've ever made 👍
Me too🙃
I once upgraded an old Stumpjumper from a 3x to a 1x drivetrain. Chain drop was chronic. The clutch didn't help, chain guides did nothing (some seemed to make the problem worse) but a cheap narrow wide chainring (same brand Seth was showing) cured the problem. To me, the narrow-wide based 1x and the dropper post are pretty important. One advantage of the 1x is that rear suspension design is no longer compromised by the need to locate a front derailer opening up new possibilities in suspension design. Every full squish I've had developed cracks in the rear suspension, and I believe that in every case it was due to compromises related to accommodating the derailer. It was hard for me to give up that front derailer. What convinced me to ditch it was the need for a better dropper lever. The left-hand shifter had to go at that point, no two ways about it. No regrets, I love the 1x.
Great video Seth, and I can confirm this from experience! I did a 1x conversion on my 2008 Trek last summer, and I took the frame in to a bike shop to have them pull the cranks as I didn't have the right tool. When I told the mechanic what I was doing he said without a clutch derailleur I'd be dropping the chain constantly and it wouldn't be worth the effort. Of course he kindly tried to sell me one, which I equally kindly refused. I purchased a cheap narrow-wide chainring from Amazon (something like $11) and after nearly 100 miles of trails and riding, I have only dropped the chain one single time, and that was when stick got sucked into my drivetrain and knocked it off. Otherwise, smooth sailing! The NW chainring really does hold the chain in place incredibly well.
The only time my single speed chain came off is when I got run over by a drunk guy in the way to work. Luckily I was not hurt so I just called in and said if be late to work that night you can check my bike if you don't believe me.
The drunk guy took off of course
Ahh the oh so common “bike shop bro” 😂
@@madtownanglerI guess if you weren't hurt it'll be difficult. But if you *are*, go and report this kind of thing to the police. They can estimate how and where the vehicle got damaged. When the culprit inevitably brings in their car to get fixed, the workshop might report them. Sometimes workshops have police-provided lists of damaged areas on specific makes and models of cars to look out for.
@@The_1ntern3t I wasn't hurt my crank got bent though.
I did a 1x9 conversion many years ago with a narrow wide ring and a non clutch x7. It dropped pretty regularly until I added a oneup chain guide. I'd get maybe 1 drop per ride on rocky technical terrain after that. But probably a clutch would have been a good upgrade.
Keep these videos coming! This is great information for those who are in the process of upgrading their older rides.
I,m using narrow-wide chainrings by years, but never paid attention to all these details! Amazing!
I think this is one of the coolest videos I've watched on bicycles. Having run narrow-wide chainrings for the last few years I get why I've barely had a chain come off. Awesome!
Thanks for this. I went from a sorta entry level FS 2007 bike to a decent 2018 model and so many things had changed, I hadn't even considered this one. I went to check my bike while watching this, and the video answered questions that came up while doing so!
I have the exact same experience. My cheap Decathlon E-MTB came with a stamped steel chain-ring that was still a narrow-wide and welded to the crank so not easily replaceable. I always had problems with the chain coming off, like several times every mile. I solved it with a front-derailleur-like chain-guide initially, but it always kept that unnerving sound of the chain wanting to come off every few hundred meters or so. Last summer I finally upgraded to a (still cheap) new set of cranks so I could change to a machined narrow-wide ring and I can finally run it without a chain-guide now. My chain hasn't come off at all for 6 months straight. I use a Shimano Alivio rear derailleur, so no clutch as well. Congrats on te 1 mil btw, very well deserved and way overdue!
Something so simple and I would have had no idea without it explained this way. Little bits of learning over time adds up!
Great video, you have nailed it, the video and your description clearly shows how clutches, chains and chainrings work, thank you, before this I didn't really understand but now it looks so simple 😊
Seth I just want to say you’re an absolute titan in the MTB community. Love your content man. Im a fairly new rider myself and I’ve learned a lot about the sport with your various videos
I don't even have an MTB but I love this channel because of the quality of content and presentation. And I always learn cool stuff and this is another example. I'd heard of narrow/wide chainrings but had no idea what that meant and what a great explanation I received!
Absolutely loving these style of videos you've been making lately! I'm learning something new every time!
I learned so much in this video! I've been wrenching on my bike for years and never realized the front chainring was narrow wide, and that the chain could only go one way. The chain must naturally fall into the right slots since I've never had trouble installing the chain. Thanks!
Seth, you are as the young folks call "The Man"! I'm a 40-something guy who always enjoyed biking since I was a chubby kid around 9yrs old, it wasn't until 2-3 years ago that I stumbled onto one of your "Flip Bike" videos that got me addicted to the mechanical side of this wonderful sport. As a result, I appreciate & respect biking on a whole different level. Thank you for doing what you do, the positive impact you've made for so many! I understand having a young family running your shop x having to put out videos weekly is not easy. Sending you good vibes from ASIA in hopes to keep you inspired Brotha! And, mucho gracias! 🤙
Seth, Long time watcher. One of the best videos I have seen from you. You gave so much clarity on something that so many, including myself, take for granted. Keep up the great work!
Great video! 10/10 good job explaining, detailing, and going over the history!
Tis deep dive blew my mind over such an simple but important part 🤯. Thanks!
By far the most informative video on MTB tech out there. Need more "explained" series type vids from you Seth. Pinkbike needs to take note on the simplicity on how your videos details how MTB tech works from a real world perspective. I appreciate the more advanced posts PB has, but the simplicity in this video takes me back to my WLIW/PBS days (for the New Yorkers out there) when I was a kid. Love it.
I just started riding this last fall and noticed the wide narrow pattern on the chain ring. Thanks for the video! I learned a lot.
Wow...this video is so enlightening! I've never had such a simple but comprehensive explanation. The gear manufacturers have never explained this so well! Thanks!
That stamped steel chain ring has ramps that are designed to not hold onto the chain , allowing shifts . We used to run single speed from chain rings with taller teeth . Worked well enough at the time
That's what I was thinking too. Chainrings designed for multiple front gears are going to be less secure, since by design they are meant to guide the chain off the side to the next chainring.
Absolutely amazing! I learn something every time I watch!!
I have a whole new respect for my front chain ring. Excellent presentation!
The way Seth presents the information is mesmerizing. Even though I knew all these details, it feels satisfying to watch. I wish school teachers were like this.
Another awesomely comprehensive and well filmed entry.... Thanks Seth!
I have a narrow wide chainring on my makeshift 1x11 Gravelbike. Although my chainline is messed up (needs to be a few mm more towards the inside) the chain never slips off the lowest gear.
You get front chainrings that cave in towards the frame. That's what I have on my Santa Cruz... makes the gears skipping long gone!
@buzzlom it's called off set I use a 3mm off set and a 6mm off set on my bikes depending on the axel sizing
I drop a chain every now and then on washboard gravel. Maybe the clutch on my Apex GX derailleur is worn?
I’ve used some washers to great success to get the chain line in check on some of my Frankenstein bikes lol
@dougbrett9218 yes my bike also has 3mm offset to make the line of the chain better :)
You are the GOAT, my friend. You are a blessing to mountain biking.
Thanks for this video, never gave it much thought but I have wondered about the chain ring. With all that said I do love my 2x drive train, I like being able to get a much lower gear with one click whenever I get to a sudden incline and then with one click back to the higher gear.
So fascinating. Had no idea how big of an innovation the narrow wide chainring was. Nice work man🔥🔥
Great footage! Great information! Heck....great video! Thanks for putting it together and sharing.
This video was very informative. Thank you so much for doing it.
Very informative Seth, I'm about to change from a 3x to 1x chainring and this explained a great deal.
I've never known about narrow wide chainrings until now, thanks for teaching!
This was great video explaining in depth your study on chain and narrow wide chain gears. For a person with no interest in cycling let along off road biking, this was indeed an engaging video and very easily under stood. Thanks for your time making this video.
Thanks for such an informative video Seth! I learned so much from this video!
Great video, love these deep dives into the different parts of the bike. Very interesting!
I know full well how and why they work - still in here watching for the algorithm and the love of Seth
Pls do more of these videos they are so interesting and make something nice to get work done to
I have a few of these chainrings and now I know why. Excellent video. Thank you 🙏🏽
I love the expansiveness of your videos. It's like the Discovery channel for Mountain Bike related topics.
Never thought what actually is it about narrow wide chainrings. Underestimated this little innovation for sure.
Thanks for great video, there is real life testing and good explanation.
This answer my question. Thanks man, good work Seth.
Best MTB-Content out there for sure!
The geeking out on this make so much sense to me and completely understand! Thank you for making sense out!
I've run several different narrow-wide rings, still dropping chains (with clutch mech). Eventually got wolftooth (couldn't get it in UK, so it had to be shipped from US). Had it for a few months, and haven't drpped the chain once. Even crashed quite hard, chain still on. Best 80 quid I've ever spent on my bike.
Awesome & thanks for shedding light on the subject!
What a video so interesting, Thank you Berm for the time you take to get us useful information.
I enjoy your videos buddy.
Greetings from Texas!
Great video as always mate 👍 keep them coming
Thank you very much. Wow I knew the narrow wide was a great design but now I know it's probably the best design. That video was so comprehensive and informative, once again thank you, I'm going to order a narrow wide for my son's bike now
Thanks again for a fantastic informative video
After all these years, this is something I didn't know. Astounded.
Nice video and presentation.
What a pleasant wake up call. Thanks.
I noticed all this when I did my 1by conversion a couple years ago. Cool to see my thoughts mirrored by Seth!
Very nice, I learned a lot. SRAM has really been putting the pressure on their competition the past ten or so years.
Excellent video and explanation!!! Love how the tech was explained in layman's term. More of these type of videos please explaining why a particular tech on the bike was created.
I have been wondering about this for ages!
great work mate
keep up the content its great
Very informative and entertaining! I of course ran into the term "narrow-wide chain ring", never thought about it, though. I was also part of the "the clutch does it all" crowd 😳
So I really did learn something today - funny enough, the video was published one day after I was left wondering why the chain would only connect properly on every second tooth to the chain ring on my new trail bike. 😂
Seth is just by far the most entertaining MTB YTer ever.
This is outstanding content Seth!
Thank👍 great video I'm upgrading my chainring to a narrow wide and for now leaving the Deore clucthless derailuer alone😊 thanks
+1 for your anecdotal evidence. I have a gravel bike runnning a non-clutch rear derailleur. Had chain drops whenever I went underbiking, until I upgraded to an even cheaper chinese narrow wide chainring than what you have in this video, and I haven't dropped a chain since. I originally upgraded purely to get a smaller chainring, and only realised the anti-chain drop benefit of the chainring a few months later, on reflection.
definitely did the right thing putting a cheap narrow-wide on my old bike when i changed it from 3x8 to 1x8! it doesn't have a clutch because i'm still running the original derailleur and the bike is from 2003. i haven't had much of an issue dropping chains (we don't have a lot of rough terrain around here) and i've been going for clutch derailleurs to minimize chain slap -- never considered they could help prevent chain drops . . . but also didn't know what a narrow-wide was for! just figured it made sense because i knew the gaps in a chain alternate.
Thanks much for posting. Very informative. I'm still riding a Jamis, triple ring, but am starting to shop a more modern mountain bike.
Great video! I would love to see these deep dives into bike components more often
I just bought an upgrade a nice new mountain bike to an e-bike and was about to add links to my chain because of ho tight it felt until my buddy showed me my derailleur had a clutch. This video fully walked through how my new drive train works and was SUPER helpful! And I'm starting to think watching your videos is the reason I got into biking and dumped my car!
Congrats on the 1 million.
Very good video, thanks for this valuable info Seth!
Thank you again, and always.
Thanks for the great info, Seth!! Going to check the chainring on my diy one by 2014 krampus
This is amazing content! Now I know what I kept dropping my chain at the same spot every day on my commute.
Greatness. Thanks Seth!
Great video, science and history, thanks Seth
I never really thought about how they work but now I understand, really neat!
I had a a gt avalanche I put a narrow wide chain ring and I used the stock clutchless derailleur with an extender and a bigger cassette and it worked great never gave me issues
I'm excited it's just a step closer to Morganton. I wish we would build a bike park here. They are currently planning to add to our Greenway park trail system. We will have a 20 mile stretch when complete. I think a bike park would be a perfect edition to the trail system. Thank you for all your videos!
Thanks for the advice when it comes to making reasonable upgrades to lower end bikes. Many of us can't afford something high end but would love the option to traverse just a bit more terrain with a little more ease and a little less trouble.
Thank you I learned something today.
Love the explanations! Very cool, never knew about this.
Wow didn't even know narrow wide chainrings was a thing. All my bikes have them, just checked. Learnt something from this video. Awesome, thanks
Love this, very interesting video with detailed explanation
This is a contender for the best youtube video so far this year. A litlte, but not not much time-overhang, slow-motion and action-cam footage carefully used, Close-Ups whenever they are necessary - not just to mask a cut. Clear Audio, supportive soundtrack, clear pictures, with archive footage in obvious and not try-hard relation to the video's subject and some nice, subtle color light "brushstrokes" in the background and on the subject. Excellent effort. Maybe some exaggerated "chain noise"-foley would have been a nice, satirical addition to put an emphasis on the non-narrow-wide-chainring-adaption-problem and put a grin on some of the watchers' faces.
Great info!
(and the funky bass background music is great, btw)
Thanks, did know the chain is moving so much. Very interesting!
Damn Seth! That was so informative. Keep it up.
Interesting vid! Good investigation on the narrow-wide chain ring!
Thanks for the deep dive.
Thanks, one can always learn something new 👏
Really interesting vid! I wasn't aware of this, and explains why the chain of my previous bike always fell off.
Amazingly, my current bike has this narrow wide chain ring, ltwoo a7, no clutch though.
I have a 1990 diamondback ascent EX. i bought it because I saw your video with an ascent! the last owner made it a 1x and removed the front deraileur. my first mod was a narrow wide and it doesnt drop the chain anymore!
Geek on! This was very helpful. I would like my mind to wrap around all of these mechanical details and concepts like I would like my chain to wrap around the chainring. So I'm going to have to keep thinking about what you have presented. Since this is in regard to mountain bikes, I'll give you my mountain thanks. This holp me a heap!
I get a smile on my face every time I see the GT Ricochet on this channel. Such a good looking Dick's bike and one that I love to own! A great base bike to modify along the way!
Me and my lads have preferred simple and light 1 x drivetrains on mtb for years now, narrow wides have made my riding so much more enjoyable. I can’t remember the last time I dropped a chain and that’s without a clutch derailleur.
Great info. You always explain bike tech great
When I made my GT a 1x, I knew i had to use a narrow wide, today I learned why, thanks!