A lot of ingrates and deplorables here commenting on the weight and fitness of the rider in this video. We all have to start somewhere, at least he's out there keeping active. This man was kind enough to take time out of his day to provide free information to those who were interested. Thank you sir for showing us a real world representation of the capabilities of 250 watts of power.
@@pfarraldcash6095for climbing on hill perfectly without pedalling you should get a 48v 500w hub motor.for normal usage and some little hill climbing 350w is fine but you have peddle
This was the most helpful video I have found in terms of practicality when it comes to these bikes. As a person who wishes to get back into cycling to lose weight ( I'm 19 stone) , It was most helpful to see some one closer to my weight, giving a review that is relevant to me personally and help me make an informed choice, thank you,
Thank you! Finally I find a video that SHOWS the performance of an electric motor in the real world, and with a load that isnt 80kg. I'm a 136kg rider on a new bike and struggling to get around hills in the area, and this sold me on getting a conversion kit to help me stay motivated to keep going with a bike :) I'll get a 48V 500W motor since some of our hills here are not quite as pleasant as yours
@@mooneepondsmassive7016 There are lot of reasons to do a front hub motor on a bike like this. First there is the forces on the drive train. None with a front hub motor. A lot with a mid-drive. You may need to upgrade some of your components. Secondly, the weight, it's good to have a bit of extra weight at the front, since so much weight is already at the rear.
This was very helpful, thanks! It also shows the limitation of a hub motor - the slower it turns the less power it can put though the wheel. A hub motor has a certain optimum rpm in which it has the highest efficiency. That's why the controller is pumping up the electrical power at high load/low speed. On a mid drive system you can manage the motor rpm by simply downshifting on a steep hill. Disadvantage is of course the higher wear on drivetrain components... ;-)
Yeah the obvious answer is 250 Watts but this is a great demonstration of how that actually translates to real life application on a bicycle. Thanks for making a very useful video that I'm sure will help a lot of people who are wondering exactly what to expect from this type of motor. I was pleasantly surprised at how easily it pulls you along.
Standalone it's not fast enough, but the interesting part is if you have to go say 5 miles, which is pretty rough of a ride when just peddling, I bet this would provide a lot of assistance...just make the peddling much easier. I kind of like this concept because getting a 500w + would make you kind of lazy, but with the 250w you're still getting some exercise but can go much further without becoming completely exhausted. For example I want to buy one for going to the gym which is 5 miles there and 5 miles back. This would be rough going 5 miles, then lifting heavy weights for an hour, then having to ride another 5 miles. With the 250w it would probably make it much more viable for me, but if I went higher I would be lazy and probably not peddle at all
It's just that. I still work up a sweat when going fast, but I have the option of going a bit slower and having a lot of assist. Uphills and headwind are the game changers.
That is on a 20 in tire, which is important information. I have one on a 700C with an oversize tire, 35mm+-. It goes faster, but does not pull itself up hill very well. It needs a lot of help on a steeper hill, which is understandable. So for those considering, the tire diameter is a very important consideration in how the motor will work out. In hilly terrain either go for a small diameter wheel or with a larger motor, perhaps with regeneration. If you live in flat terrain, regeneration would not be worth it and a 250 to 350W will likely be all you need, depending on your capabilities. ??
Me too and I'm willing to pedal as well I weigh 220 pounds bike could weigh 50 lbs . 140 kilos equates to 307 pounds so I should have even better performance
My wife's Vyron Cumulus 250 watt rear hub on a 26-inch wheel deals with some very steep and long inclines in our area, assisted exercise on a truly lovely reasonably price simple bike, great video thanks.
Extremely useful a big thank you, I'm also about 118kg. This clearly shows that the 250w will pull me along nicely, I don't need to break any speed records just go on shopping trips about 12km round trip. incidentally can you tell me the controller output and battery voltage and amps?
I live in a hilly area, I weigh less than you do, and I have a 750W mid drive mountain bike with an alloy frame. I can handle the majority of hills in third or fourth and at a decent rate, but there's one hill I have to tackle that requires me to shift to first gear. I wouldn't want to exchange it for a less powerful bike.
Good demonstration of the capability of a 250w motor. Higher wattage motors require larger heavier batteries. If you don't need the higher wattage the price for conversion is much lower. 👍👍
Basic view of Electricity people miss. More Volts. Like pouring more water out of a bucket. Sure you gain but you lose. Think about it. 36 v 500. 20mph. 48. Same 28mph. Give and take $$$$$$ I wish I rode a 24v. So. DAMN CHEAP. BUT SLOW
Thanks! Planning to install a 250 hub motor which only weighs 1,4 kg and a 1 kg custom built lithium battery to my delicate 6 kg carbon fiber road bike, and hope it wont be to much for the frame. Theoretically, 150W from me and 150w from the motor should be enough to get me to 45-50km/h.
250W adds some assist, peddling is definitely still required. I have had 350W, 750W and now 1000W systems. The 1000W system I have right now is pretty sweet, but even with it I still peddle hard on the hills to help maximize battery life. The harder the draw, the harder it is on your battery and these things are expensive.
Gerry H I agree. This is why I haven't bothered to install the included thumb throttle. 250W is simply not powerful enough to allow me to cruise around only using throttle.
im used the same kit 2 weeks ago...im very happy....im 85kg weigth..the bike has 13 kg ..and bikepacking about 5 kg...total: 103 kg.....the level 1 of asistance its veriy nice for flat roads...in uphill i used level 3 and im taking 13 km/h speed....i recommended the semislicks tires for road if you have a mtb.......finally im used the 11 ah battery...with this battery i can did 60 km with 1000 m positive uphill acumulated. if you going only flat roads yo can did over 80 km for sure
THANK YOU for YOUR TIME and THE LOAD TEST. It Was Very Helpful for me. Now I have a good idea of what Motor Capacity Should be Looking for my Needs. I have a pair of those 250w motors for my Off Road & Urban Road Tricycle. No Need More than That.!.
I added a Bafang front hub motor to my Bullitt recently. It works great but the top speed is limited on a 20" wheel, because the controller limits the max rpm of the motor. The simple type of controller supplied with the kit does not allow any advanced tuning, so I am stuck at around 22.5 km/h with actual assist. This is ok since I didn't ride the Bullitt much faster anyway. Hills and headwind are a day-and-night difference, flat is more like dusk vs evening.
I have an Ancheer city cruiser 250w electric bike. That "hill" your talking about, is absolutely nothing compared to hills I ride. It's great for flat surface and down hills. 25° and higher, it bogs down even with pedal assist. 350w and higher is my best suggestion for steep hills.
Very helpful video that shows how much the motor would pull without pedalling and funny how you could still get home on pedal assist should the chain break, you could keep pedalling and the motor would still work
I have a 250W rear hub and where I live- very steep roads. In my dreams are a 500W front hub at least. In the long run it would take the strain off the rear and be better for the motors and batteries. Cheers
The Motor is proably meant for a bigger wheel because a 250 W Motor can easyly do 30 km/h and has in such a configuration still enought Torque to go uphill and accelerate.
Hill climbing requires torque - torque at the tire is going to be lower with a 26" or 700c wheel than with a 20" wheel. I'd really lean toward 500w, although a 250w motor can provide decent supplemental power, when you need it most is when you'll find you don't have quite enough to make it up that one hill with a load of groceries. Just depends on your usage. If you'll only be on known routes, and just need a boost, 250w will do. It's when you start to challenge it with a variety of terrain that you may find there are limits - maybe more than you think.
so even if it was rated 250W it does go beyond that? I'm a but confused. now I have to double check the thickness of my nickel strip that I was using to repair a certain bike that runs with the same brushless motor.
Thanks for the 250 watt review.. That's realistically all a person would need for comuting and getting groceries. If you need more, ride a motorcycle. I was at the bike shop in my city a while back. E bikes are getting really popular. That's good, the technology gets better too. Especially the batteries
What if you live in a hilly area? I do and can tell you that 250 W is not enough. I have to get off and push on several local hills, including the one my house is on.
i want more than 250w but i cant afford the absurd price to get a motorcycle license (a few hundred dollars) and i dont believe in paying the government registration fees, just to go from point A to point B
Thanks you so much for the video. I weigh the same. Still will go ahead with 500watt as I would hate PAS on uphill. In London police don't seem to be bothered as much about this issue. You can always tell them that it's a bike made before Jan-16. And Brexit. Tell them the EU law shouldn't apply any more. 😄
Are you kidding? I had an electric bike in the 1980s and got done for the full range of offences you'd expect for a an unlicenced motorbike, and it only did 7mph. If you think the British government are likely to be more bicycle-friendly than the EU, then you're in for a shock.
the oil, car, mining, road construction and plastics companies, er i mean 'the uk government' wouldnt want to encourage the clueless peons out of their cars because of trivial existential threats like global warming and death of a liveable planet, an inevitable food production crisis due to most of the oil it relies on having been pissed away in cars, or millions of people dyeing from car accidents and lung disease from car pollution every year. ebikes over an already worryingly dangerous 250watts and 15mph are clearly a terrifying potential menace to other road users, public health, civilisation and the continuance of the living planet itself.
LOL UK law is worse than EU (normally) especially when it comes to ebikes. UK allows only 200W. Then we aligned ourselves with Europe and most of the world. The EU law has been harmonised into UK law and the UK isn't going to change it again unless most of the world changes.
Good video, but, I'm wondering the following: 1. Which type of battery do you use -- lead acid or li-ion? 2. How far can you travel on flat terrain with your 36V, 13Ah, 486Wh battery -- if you run it full throttle, without stopping? 3. What is the max temperature that the motor can tolerate before it becomes damaged? 4. How long could you push your 250W motor at 500W+ before it overheats or suffers from heat-related damage that may shorten its service life? Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! I will answer your questions as far as I can. 1. I use a li-ion battery. Most ebike batteries today are li-ion type. 2. I can only answer this question in theory. As you stated, my battery capacity is 486W. Let's assume I go full throttle without pedaling at all. This brings the bike up to a speed of 20km/h on a completely flat surface. Once up at 20km/h the motor will use 240W of power to maintain that speed. With a battery capacity of 486W the battery will be empty in two hours and I will have traveled 40km. But this is only in theory. I am planning to do a real life range test as soon as the weather gets a little better where I live. 3. Sorry, I don't know the answer to this question. 4. Unfortunately I do not know the answer to this question either. I have now ridden the motor in this video for 5000km. I opened the motor a few weeks ago and it was in good condition inside with no signs of overheating. So I would say there is no need to worry if you plan to use your 250W motor in a pedal assist application. It will last you a long long time on a commuter or touring bike where you assist the motor by pedaling. If you plan to use throttle only and live in an area with many hills, you will probably want to look for a more powerful motor and much more battery capacity.
Thanks for the reply to my questions. Do you know your battery charge % & voltage when your controller cuts-off discharging to protect your battery from over discharge?
When riding the bike, the battery BMS (battery management system) will cut off power when voltage reaches 2.75V/cell. I have once experienced this on a very cold day when the battery was left outside for several hours.
Thanks for responding & for the information. That's interesting information because I've read the datasheets for many li-ion cell chemistries & I've seen many recommendations for discharge cut-off @ 3V. It's my understanding that allowing discharge below that V limit risks damage to cells that causes lowered charge capacity & lower useful life spans.
A B I agree. And the BMS cut off voltage is probably set at 3.0V. The battery voltage went down to 2.75V only for a few seconds before the system shut it down. Without load the voltage roes back above 3.0V within seconds. It's not a good idea to frequently run your battery till its almost empty. You will get longer battery life if you avoid fully dicharging it. I usually consume 50% of my battery each day and charge it full every night for next days use.
have you tried stepping up the battery with a super easy step diy generator. Here's how just use the motor and connect a cog with another cog at the ratio of 4 to 1. then you put the motor on the large one. then get a used broken generator and remove the stator. Attach stator if (15 magnet to 4 to 1 smaller gear.) if not adjust to number of magnets. then purchase multi meter and rotate while checking for maximum amperage and voltages. (transformer may be need for your unit.) then purchase ac ebike motor and adjust throttle to 40 amps as the voltage may be to high. It may be slower but it should due 200 miles on a charge and have no problem going up hill as it is running on the stator and not a battery. good luck.
Nice video. Thank you 😊 I see a lot of comments about the low power, but there's also the legal issues with motors above 250 W. Although, to be fair, I haven't seen anyone inspecting these, as long as you pedal and don't use throttle, which also isn't lawful here. So, 250 W / < 25 km/h / no throttle is the legal limit for class 1 ebikes. But it never ceases to amaze me why a bike can't have a throttle, while very similarly specked escooter can. What's the difference?
nice idea to put out a video like that, thanks! But I don't recall hearing what the grade of the hills was, which would have been helpful. Without that info, it's kind of hard to relate, unfortunately. But again, thanks.
So the 250w motor can just about do it. Have you tried it on a 500, 750w motor? Would be interesting, not so much for the speed but more for the torque, and safety especially as cars tend to accelerate up hills.
Sure it can. Analogy. If someone has never been in an automobile and asked, how fast is 50mph (80kph)? I would take them on a trip so they could get a feel for that speed. Note that I used "speed" and "50mph" in the same sentence! But you, however, would just look at them and say, 50mph. Now, who did they receive the best answer from - you or me?
Yes it should.... 250W is the input power and he's curious what the resultant output power is going to be in practical terms like can it move him along nicely... Will it take him up a hill....
You make a very valid point but I must point out you didn't use "50mph" and "speed" in the same sentence but two adjacent sentences :/ @@craigolson1822
I’ve got a 250w hub motor with a 36v 10AH battery and with out peddling on 700 x 47c tyres 29.8 klm uphill it uses the most power and it gets up to 635w. But sits at 26.
great video it was good that you tested, because I wasn't going to buy an e-bike with fear of the hills and my weight (95kg). this video helps a lot. just one doubt, your bike is 250w, but the motor is giving 500-600w in uphill. this happens with all 250w e-bikes? is it dangerous for the motor? thanks
It’s up to the controller, some controllers only allow a max. of 250W, but it seams like this one is different. I think this motor is more like a 350W motor, because it’s max. continuous power is 350W. The max. output is in this case 600W, but only for a certain amount of time because the copper windings will overheat. Modern motors like this one probably have a temp probe which is an input for the controller so it can determine for example the duration of its max. output.
Claude Desaulniers A quick look at this video, or an even faster tour on Google will explain that a electric bike mostly has pedal-assist. This means that the motor will only engage if the pedals are moving - Which were explained in the video. The person in this video is moving his pedals, without putting any pressure on them - Therefore letting the motor do all the work.
There is lot of significance to this vid. The 250 watt Bafang geared hub kit is the best kept secret in the e-bike world. I'm an e-bike conversion builder and e-bike enthusiast. My first build was a 350watt/36volt-10ah (rear Hub), then a 3,000 watt/52volt-40.8ah (mid-drive), a 750w/52v-27.2ah, and finally a 250whub/36v-20ah (front hub) on a Trek Single Track 930, with 26" wheels. On this last 250w bike, I've disconnected the PAS and use throttle only. It's a 3x8 speed with 44t-32t-24t crankset against a 46t-11t cassette. This gear combination on a good bike like the trek allows 20mph top speed, but climbs any hill up to 15 degrees. Of all these builds, my favorite and the best by far is the last one - the 250w. This is because: a) Bike reaches max legal speed of 32km/h (20mph) easily b) Climbs any hill with ease c) With the 20ah 36volt pack my range is 90 miles!!! d) Even if I do run out of battery, the gearing and pedaling is easy that I can still get anywhere, even climbing up to 10-12 degree inclines without e-power) e) weighs only 48 pounds! Easy to lift, maneuver, and move around f) by taking off the removable battery, I put it on bike rack for transport g) FUN!!! It's really fun to blast around with minimal pedaling (average speed of 27km/h) yet have literally no range anxiety. This 250w is so frugal with battery consumption, and the bike invites you to pedal. Pedaling is engaging and super fun, no stress at all! Sure, I can keep up with car traffic and reach 40mph on my Cyclone 3000 watt mid-drive. But in this motorcycle mode, my big 2kwh 52volt 40.8ah pack is drained in less than 30 miles. Plus the bike is 65 pounds. Pedaling is almost pointless. The 250 is the way to go.
Thank you for this demonstration but I am confused. Surely a 250W motor can only deliver 250W yet when you demonstrated in your uphill ride your motor was delivering 500+W. That aside however, you clearly showed that to propel approximately 150kg up a reasonably steep incline 500W is needed therefore if my 250W motor only delivers 250W it follows that I would need to put in sufficient pedalling power to overcome the 250W deficit. Not bad considering that is the power one would normally put into pedalling on the flat.
It is 250W constant power, you can exceed it but it will burn at some point if you ask more from it than it can deliver. If you dunk it on liquid nitrogen, you can most likely get well over 1000W worth of torque from the motor. This is where the price of the motor starts to make differences, cheaper motors do not handle overpower very well whereas more expensive can cope with twice the rating on a cool day.
I have a 500w motor as 250w was not enough , to put on when I'm in Spain next,as I'm 100kg I think that makes a big difference,in Europe we are limited to 250w but you can buy 250w labels on ebay
You can use your smartphone to get an angle reading of slope with proper app, not always easy cause you need to get on your knees to read or mount on a parallel bar on bike, with ground...
Munther G-mail cause power and speed. A 1000w can take you up the hill faster and easier. 250 is weak compared to 1000, even 500. You can still get good range on a 1000w as long as you don’t go too fast and use assist always since the Throttle kills your range
If people drive cars ranging from Micro-cars to Bugatti Chirons, it's fairly likely they will also have different ideas on what e-bike will meet their needs. :o) People did not sit up and take notice of Tesla cars because they were electric... they became interested because of the massive performance compared to similar fossil fuelled vehicles.
awesome. how many spokes is your rim? what size? i have a folding bike, 16 inch rim and 28 spokes. can i still lace these hubs? i believe they are 36 holes. thanks in advance.
That's because you have to move the pedals for the motor to run - if he didn't pedal, the motor would shut off. That's why he said he was just turning the pedals, not pressing on them.
Do you have a Bafang brand 250W front hub motor? Is it mounted to a 20" wheel? Do you run a 36V battery? Is your assist cut off set to 25km/h? Does your bike weigh 35kg? There are so many things that can be different between our setups. This same motor will do 27-28km/h on throttle only mounted to a 26" wheel and 11kg MTB and assist cut off set to 35km/h.
That's because those motors have different RPM. One can have "speed" motor or "torque" motor and both of them will be the same brand, model. voltage and power. Just different RPM.
E-Bike Commuter E-Bike Commuter 20'' wheel, Bafang BFSWX02 250w, 22kg, 36v 11ah, Cut-Off to 25KM/H BUT with Full Battery 28KM/H (To the Idiot in the comment my GF got 17 years old and she got 46kg and I got 62kg...)
E-Bike Commuter I want to pump it an 58.8v 14ah battery... Do you think it gonna work or is better sell it and buy one that already get the 50km/h (Dream)? (in a 250w motor)
Do all standard 250w ebikes have a restricted chip in them to keep them under 16mph? or are they exempt from this requirement because they're entry level ebikes so they're not considered fast?
A lot of ingrates and deplorables here commenting on the weight and fitness of the rider in this video. We all have to start somewhere, at least he's out there keeping active. This man was kind enough to take time out of his day to provide free information to those who were interested. Thank you sir for showing us a real world representation of the capabilities of 250 watts of power.
Probably all making fun of him while they're smoking their cigarettes and pouring booze down their throats. We all have our vices.
Well said.👏
Also probably don’t even bike or will ever get one and for sure they were sitting on their ass at the time
Its too easy for the hater to post. Unfortunately they get most of the attention.
They are perfect when you are over 70 and have bad heart valves I could not ride a normal bike.so perfect for us oldies to get about.
exactly the video i was looking for to understand what 250w is good for. super helpful, thank you.
Thanks! Glad to hear this was of help to you.
This was very helpful, listening to most people you get the impression 750 watt is minimum. I now know 250 is all I need. Thank You!
absolutely correct, my only concern is that I don't have to pedal so hard uphill.
@@pfarraldcash6095for climbing on hill perfectly without pedalling you should get a 48v 500w hub motor.for normal usage and some little hill climbing 350w is fine but you have peddle
This was the most helpful video I have found in terms of practicality when it comes to these bikes. As a person who wishes to get back into cycling to lose weight ( I'm 19 stone) , It was most helpful to see some one closer to my weight, giving a review that is relevant to me personally and help me make an informed choice, thank you,
19 stones? I got to Google that
266 pounds is equivalent to 19 stones
19 stone/266 pounds is 120.7 kilogram for those in 90% of the globe
I'd just like to comment on the beauty of the neighbourhood! Looks so peaceful and quiet! Perfect for nice bike/ebike cruises
No no we need negative comments. The internet you know Lol
Thank you! Finally I find a video that SHOWS the performance of an electric motor in the real world, and with a load that isnt 80kg.
I'm a 136kg rider on a new bike and struggling to get around hills in the area, and this sold me on getting a conversion kit to help me stay motivated to keep going with a bike :) I'll get a 48V 500W motor since some of our hills here are not quite as pleasant as yours
Good on you. Just get a motor at the crank and not the hub
@@mooneepondsmassive7016 There are lot of reasons to do a front hub motor on a bike like this. First there is the forces on the drive train. None with a front hub motor. A lot with a mid-drive. You may need to upgrade some of your components. Secondly, the weight, it's good to have a bit of extra weight at the front, since so much weight is already at the rear.
This was very helpful, thanks! It also shows the limitation of a hub motor - the slower it turns the less power it can put though the wheel. A hub motor has a certain optimum rpm in which it has the highest efficiency. That's why the controller is pumping up the electrical power at high load/low speed.
On a mid drive system you can manage the motor rpm by simply downshifting on a steep hill. Disadvantage is of course the higher wear on drivetrain components... ;-)
Yeah the obvious answer is 250 Watts but this is a great demonstration of how that actually translates to real life application on a bicycle. Thanks for making a very useful video that I'm sure will help a lot of people who are wondering exactly what to expect from this type of motor. I was pleasantly surprised at how easily it pulls you along.
Standalone it's not fast enough, but the interesting part is if you have to go say 5 miles, which is pretty rough of a ride when just peddling, I bet this would provide a lot of assistance...just make the peddling much easier. I kind of like this concept because getting a 500w + would make you kind of lazy, but with the 250w you're still getting some exercise but can go much further without becoming completely exhausted. For example I want to buy one for going to the gym which is 5 miles there and 5 miles back. This would be rough going 5 miles, then lifting heavy weights for an hour, then having to ride another 5 miles. With the 250w it would probably make it much more viable for me, but if I went higher I would be lazy and probably not peddle at all
Yeah, I've seen it used with bike packing too (lots of gear, tent, food, etc). Keeps the amount of work a rider has to do reasonable.
It's just that. I still work up a sweat when going fast, but I have the option of going a bit slower and having a lot of assist. Uphills and headwind are the game changers.
That is on a 20 in tire, which is important information. I have one on a 700C with an oversize tire, 35mm+-. It goes faster, but does not pull itself up hill very well. It needs a lot of help on a steeper hill, which is understandable. So for those considering, the tire diameter is a very important consideration in how the motor will work out. In hilly terrain either go for a small diameter wheel or with a larger motor, perhaps with regeneration. If you live in flat terrain, regeneration would not be worth it and a 250 to 350W will likely be all you need, depending on your capabilities. ??
Very helpful. I didn't think it was going to make it up the third hill but it surprised me . 250 Watt motor would serve my purpose well
Me too and I'm willing to pedal as well I weigh 220 pounds bike could weigh 50 lbs . 140 kilos equates to 307 pounds so I should have even better performance
My wife's Vyron Cumulus 250 watt rear hub on a 26-inch wheel deals with some very steep and long inclines in our area, assisted exercise on a truly lovely reasonably price simple bike, great video thanks.
Extremely useful a big thank you, I'm also about 118kg. This clearly shows that the 250w will pull me along nicely, I don't need to break any speed records just go on shopping trips about 12km round trip. incidentally can you tell me the controller output and battery voltage and amps?
Andy Norman
I have a 17A controller and a 36V, 13 ah battery.
I live in a hilly area, I weigh less than you do, and I have a 750W mid drive mountain bike with an alloy frame. I can handle the majority of hills in third or fourth and at a decent rate, but there's one hill I have to tackle that requires me to shift to first gear. I wouldn't want to exchange it for a less powerful bike.
Salafrance try the 1000 watts wheel and make sure the battery takes 1000 watts i purchase that on ebay .is faster 28mph but not sure about up hills.
Thanks - I might try that sometime with a new build.
TRUE BUT GOOD LUCK FINDING ONE .
Good demonstration of the capability of a 250w motor. Higher wattage motors require larger heavier batteries. If you don't need the higher wattage the price for conversion is much lower. 👍👍
Basic view of Electricity people miss. More Volts. Like pouring more water out of a bucket. Sure you gain but you lose. Think about it. 36 v 500. 20mph. 48. Same 28mph. Give and take $$$$$$ I wish I rode a 24v. So. DAMN CHEAP. BUT SLOW
Thanks! Planning to install a 250 hub motor which only weighs 1,4 kg and a 1 kg custom built lithium battery to my delicate 6 kg carbon fiber road bike, and hope it wont be to much for the frame. Theoretically, 150W from me and 150w from the motor should be enough to get me to 45-50km/h.
Yeah you should be able to get speeds of 35mph to 40mph
I live in a 'hilly' area (in New Zealand) and needed to know is 250 watts would be enough . Thank you for this video ad all the work you put into it.
Very useful video. Got lot of numbers to understand the power of 250w with rider. Thanks from India.
This man is showing how powerful in layman’s term. You all geeks do not panic about it and show your ignorance.
IIT it it clearly says 250 WATTS god I'm so smart no one else can read
In laymans terms its 500 watts
@@loooooopy yet if you calibrate your battery to 250W, you'll be severely b0rked, so rather pay attention than pretend to be smart
250W adds some assist, peddling is definitely still required. I have had 350W, 750W and now 1000W systems. The 1000W system I have right now is pretty sweet, but even with it I still peddle hard on the hills to help maximize battery life. The harder the draw, the harder it is on your battery and these things are expensive.
Gerry H
I agree. This is why I haven't bothered to install the included thumb throttle. 250W is simply not powerful enough to allow me to cruise around only using throttle.
The answer to the question in the title would be 250 watts.
i only clicked on this because i knew this comment would be here +1.
Slightly cruel - yet also correct LOL
I'm your 100th like. Brilliant sir, and oh so true! LMAO!!!
Most of them can deliver over 500 Watts though.
Their nominal power is 250 Watts although the average power (hopefully) is less.
Funny but not completely accurate. 250 watts is the power they draw. amps and torque are also important
im used the same kit 2 weeks ago...im very happy....im 85kg weigth..the bike has 13 kg ..and bikepacking about 5 kg...total: 103 kg.....the level 1 of asistance its veriy nice for flat roads...in uphill i used level 3 and im taking 13 km/h speed....i recommended the semislicks tires for road if you have a mtb.......finally im used the 11 ah battery...with this battery i can did 60 km with 1000 m positive uphill acumulated. if you going only flat roads yo can did over 80 km for sure
THANK YOU for YOUR TIME and THE LOAD TEST.
It Was Very Helpful for me.
Now I have a good idea of what Motor Capacity Should be Looking for my Needs.
I have a pair of those 250w motors for my Off Road & Urban Road Tricycle.
No Need More than That.!.
This is great, exactly the video i needed. I was debating getting a 250w front hub bike.
Best and perfect tutorial for all ebike builders
Great vid, that was very helpful! Now I have a much better idea of what a 250W hub can do, thanks.
Thank you. This video helped me to understand my choices for ebikes much better.
Thanks for these pics!! Kit ordered, waiting for delivery! Thanks again
Richard Southern
Great!
So 12 to 15.5 mph top speed, I'm glad I went with a 750w. Good video 👍
My motor 350 Watt 36 volt bldc motor battery 15 ah 36 volt maximum speed 45 km pH on flat surface 20° incline 40 kmph
I'm 100kg and 250w is very helpful .AT 59 y.o exercise needs to be fun and this is a great way to start
I added a Bafang front hub motor to my Bullitt recently. It works great but the top speed is limited on a 20" wheel, because the controller limits the max rpm of the motor. The simple type of controller supplied with the kit does not allow any advanced tuning, so I am stuck at around 22.5 km/h with actual assist. This is ok since I didn't ride the Bullitt much faster anyway. Hills and headwind are a day-and-night difference, flat is more like dusk vs evening.
Did you get the 20" higher rpm version? I'm looking into this and I think that you'd be able to hit higher speeds with that one.
This is one of the best reviews
Nice review man, thanks! But how come the bike never reached 25 km/h as it's maximum speed and was only 20 km/h? Thanks.
Although I already have a 36v, 250w bike, mine does not display wattage use. Thank you for the video.
Your demonstration was very helpful for me. Thank you.
I have an Ancheer city cruiser 250w electric bike. That "hill" your talking about, is absolutely nothing compared to hills I ride. It's great for flat surface and down hills. 25° and higher, it bogs down even with pedal assist. 350w and higher is my best suggestion for steep hills.
Thank you. Just the video I needed to see
Very helpful video that shows how much the motor would pull without pedalling and funny how you could still get home on pedal assist should the chain break, you could keep pedalling and the motor would still work
It can take litle overvoltage to gain acceleration. One guy put hubmotor 75v, and it worked fine. Just more batteries to encrease voltage.
House fire speedrun
I have a 250W rear hub and where I live- very steep roads. In my dreams are a 500W front hub at least. In the long run it would take the strain off the rear and be better for the motors and batteries. Cheers
Extremely useful video! Well done!👍👍👍
The Motor is proably meant for a bigger wheel because a 250 W Motor can easyly do 30 km/h and has in such a configuration still enought Torque to go uphill and accelerate.
Thanks for the video. Useful to understand what the specifications of the e bikes mean in practice
Nice and useful video ! good work !
Hill climbing requires torque - torque at the tire is going to be lower with a 26" or 700c wheel than with a 20" wheel. I'd really lean toward 500w, although a 250w motor can provide decent supplemental power, when you need it most is when you'll find you don't have quite enough to make it up that one hill with a load of groceries. Just depends on your usage. If you'll only be on known routes, and just need a boost, 250w will do. It's when you start to challenge it with a variety of terrain that you may find there are limits - maybe more than you think.
Extremely useful and informative video 👍👍👍
Thank you so much
EXCELENT VIDEO MAN, THANKS! Regards from Chile.
I'll get my 250w bike tomorrow, my weigh is 70 kg so if it was good to you, for me too. thanks again
Hello my hub motor is of 36v 350w rating.. I supply power of 36v via battery pack but the motor rotates slowly. What is the problem???
I always thought that 250w
Was for Slim People or Keeds Under 60 kilos.
WOOOW ,!. "WATT" A IMPRESSIVE DEMO.!.
Gracias Señor.
What an amazing morning. What country is this? Thanks for the video man! :)
so even if it was rated 250W it does go beyond that? I'm a but confused. now I have to double check the thickness of my nickel strip that I was using to repair a certain bike that runs with the same brushless motor.
I live on a really really steep hill
750 rear at parts barely keeps me going
Thank you for the review.
Thank you I am 110 kg and I see that it might be a not enough if I am carrying groceries on the way back
Thanks for the 250 watt review.. That's realistically all a person would need for comuting and getting groceries. If you need more, ride a motorcycle. I was at the bike shop in my city a while back. E bikes are getting really popular. That's good, the technology gets better too. Especially the batteries
What about those of us who could do with the exercise?
What if you live in a hilly area? I do and can tell you that 250 W is not enough. I have to get off and push on several local hills, including the one my house is on.
need more/want more. there's a difference.
Robert Seviour - Have you tried a petrol assist instead?
i want more than 250w but i cant afford the absurd price to get a motorcycle license (a few hundred dollars) and i dont believe in paying the government registration fees, just to go from point A to point B
Thanks from Spain 😁
Thanks you so much for the video. I weigh the same. Still will go ahead with 500watt as I would hate PAS on uphill. In London police don't seem to be bothered as much about this issue. You can always tell them that it's a bike made before Jan-16. And Brexit. Tell them the EU law shouldn't apply any more. 😄
Arjun Ranatunga I have a 3 year odd old 250 watt with throttle Only and peddle assist..I like your thinking mate .Not part of Europe .Sky's the limit.
Are you kidding? I had an electric bike in the 1980s and got done for the full range of offences you'd expect for a an unlicenced motorbike, and it only did 7mph. If you think the British government are likely to be more bicycle-friendly than the EU, then you're in for a shock.
the oil, car, mining, road construction and plastics companies, er i mean 'the uk government' wouldnt want to encourage the clueless peons out of their cars because of trivial existential threats like global warming and death of a liveable planet, an inevitable food production crisis due to most of the oil it relies on having been pissed away in cars, or millions of people dyeing from car accidents and lung disease from car pollution every year. ebikes over an already worryingly dangerous 250watts and 15mph are clearly a terrifying potential menace to other road users, public health, civilisation and the continuance of the living planet itself.
I get stopped for riding a motorless mountain bike fast, they think you stole the bike did a robbery or have drugs.
LOL UK law is worse than EU (normally) especially when it comes to ebikes. UK allows only 200W. Then we aligned ourselves with Europe and most of the world. The EU law has been harmonised into UK law and the UK isn't going to change it again unless most of the world changes.
thanks for the real world example of e-bike in use. Having no experience and frame of reference.... seeing specs doesnt really help a newbie.
Looking at the voltage I'm guessing this was a 36v 250w with a 7 Ah battery. Bumping up to a 10.4 Ah battery will be doubly amazing 👏
Check his shadow at 4:08 in the video he's peddling the bike so the motor was being assisted on the hill section!
you have to rotate the crank otherwise the motor won't activate, he's just ghost pedalling.
Nice catch, but like the other guy said it’s needed.
Good video, but, I'm wondering the following:
1. Which type of battery do you use -- lead acid or li-ion?
2. How far can you travel on flat terrain with your 36V, 13Ah, 486Wh battery -- if you run it full throttle, without stopping?
3. What is the max temperature that the motor can tolerate before it becomes damaged?
4. How long could you push your 250W motor at 500W+ before it overheats or suffers from heat-related damage that may shorten its service life?
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks!
I will answer your questions as far as I can.
1. I use a li-ion battery. Most ebike batteries today are li-ion type.
2. I can only answer this question in theory. As you stated, my battery capacity is 486W. Let's assume I go full throttle without pedaling at all. This brings the bike up to a speed of 20km/h on a completely flat surface. Once up at 20km/h the motor will use 240W of power to maintain that speed. With a battery capacity of 486W the battery will be empty in two hours and I will have traveled 40km. But this is only in theory. I am planning to do a real life range test as soon as the weather gets a little better where I live.
3. Sorry, I don't know the answer to this question.
4. Unfortunately I do not know the answer to this question either. I have now ridden the motor in this video for 5000km. I opened the motor a few weeks ago and it was in good condition inside with no signs of overheating. So I would say there is no need to worry if you plan to use your 250W motor in a pedal assist application. It will last you a long long time on a commuter or touring bike where you assist the motor by pedaling.
If you plan to use throttle only and live in an area with many hills, you will probably want to look for a more powerful motor and much more battery capacity.
Thanks for the reply to my questions.
Do you know your battery charge % & voltage when your controller cuts-off discharging to protect your battery from over discharge?
When riding the bike, the battery BMS (battery management system) will cut off power when voltage reaches 2.75V/cell. I have once experienced this on a very cold day when the battery was left outside for several hours.
Thanks for responding & for the information.
That's interesting information because I've read the datasheets for many li-ion cell chemistries & I've seen many recommendations for discharge cut-off @ 3V.
It's my understanding that allowing discharge below that V limit risks damage to cells that causes lowered charge capacity & lower useful life spans.
A B
I agree. And the BMS cut off voltage is probably set at 3.0V. The battery voltage went down to 2.75V only for a few seconds before the system shut it down. Without load the voltage roes back above 3.0V within seconds.
It's not a good idea to frequently run your battery till its almost empty. You will get longer battery life if you avoid fully dicharging it. I usually consume 50% of my battery each day and charge it full every night for next days use.
have you tried stepping up the battery with a super easy step diy generator. Here's how just use the motor and connect a cog with another cog at the ratio of 4 to 1. then you put the motor on the large one. then get a used broken generator and remove the stator. Attach stator if (15 magnet to 4 to 1 smaller gear.) if not adjust to number of magnets. then purchase multi meter and rotate while checking for maximum amperage and voltages. (transformer may be need for your unit.) then purchase ac ebike motor and adjust throttle to 40 amps as the voltage may be to high. It may be slower but it should due 200 miles on a charge and have no problem going up hill as it is running on the stator and not a battery. good luck.
Nice video. Thank you 😊
I see a lot of comments about the low power, but there's also the legal issues with motors above 250 W. Although, to be fair, I haven't seen anyone inspecting these, as long as you pedal and don't use throttle, which also isn't lawful here. So, 250 W / < 25 km/h / no throttle is the legal limit for class 1 ebikes.
But it never ceases to amaze me why a bike can't have a throttle, while very similarly specked escooter can. What's the difference?
thank you for posting the test and review its been very helpful . Before your test I had no idea what motor power I would need .
nice idea to put out a video like that, thanks! But I don't recall hearing what the grade of the hills was, which would have been helpful. Without that info, it's kind of hard to relate, unfortunately. But again, thanks.
thanks man very useful
Good demonstration. Goes very far than scientific lectures.
So the 250w motor can just about do it.
Have you tried it on a 500, 750w motor? Would be interesting, not so much for the speed but more for the torque, and safety especially as cars tend to accelerate up hills.
EXCELLENT, VERY WELL DONE AND INFORMATIVE.
Thanks, very informative
Nice work
Thanks, this video was very informative, and excellent feedback as well to the comments. Subscribed.
Hey, thanks, this put it in perspective for me, I appreciate it.
Is front motor good idea?
Great and very useful video!!!!
The word "powerful" should not be used in the same sentence as 250W.
Chris Duke Unless it's a vibrator.
I hope you're not throwing 20" in the mix then Gillenz
Sure it can. Analogy. If someone has never been in an automobile and asked, how fast is 50mph (80kph)? I would take them on a trip so they could get a feel for that speed. Note that I used "speed" and "50mph" in the same sentence! But you, however, would just look at them and say, 50mph. Now, who did they receive the best answer from - you or me?
Yes it should.... 250W is the input power and he's curious what the resultant output power is going to be in practical terms like can it move him along nicely... Will it take him up a hill....
You make a very valid point but I must point out you didn't use "50mph" and "speed" in the same sentence but two adjacent sentences :/ @@craigolson1822
One might wonder what percentage of those watts that is actual work and how much is lost as heat.
Thanks for this video useful to me 🍻
I’ve got a 250w hub motor with a 36v 10AH battery and with out peddling on 700 x 47c tyres 29.8 klm uphill it uses the most power and it gets up to 635w. But sits at 26.
Hard to tell the hill slope grade percentage from the video, even google maps or komoot might not show the true numbers
great video it was good that you tested, because I wasn't going to buy an e-bike with fear of the hills and my weight (95kg). this video helps a lot.
just one doubt, your bike is 250w, but the motor is giving 500-600w in uphill. this happens with all 250w e-bikes? is it dangerous for the motor?
thanks
It’s up to the controller, some controllers only allow a max. of 250W, but it seams like this one is different. I think this motor is more like a 350W motor, because it’s max. continuous power is 350W. The max. output is in this case 600W, but only for a certain amount of time because the copper windings will overheat. Modern motors like this one probably have a temp probe which is an input for the controller so it can determine for example the duration of its max. output.
What brand of bike do you have?
He said the motor was pulling him up the hill, but in the shadow at 4:15 you can see he is peddling.
Claude Desaulniers A quick look at this video, or an even faster tour on Google will explain that a electric bike mostly has pedal-assist. This means that the motor will only engage if the pedals are moving - Which were explained in the video.
The person in this video is moving his pedals, without putting any pressure on them - Therefore letting the motor do all the work.
HotelGolf82 . I have an ebike. No need to pedal.
Claude Desaulniers There are such bikes also. But the one in this video, as explained requires the rider to pedal.
HotelGolf82 . Ok, yes, correct. I watched it again and he does say he is pedaling to engage the motor. I am curious why he is out of breath though ?
There is lot of significance to this vid. The 250 watt Bafang geared hub kit is the best kept secret in the e-bike world.
I'm an e-bike conversion builder and e-bike enthusiast. My first build was a 350watt/36volt-10ah (rear Hub), then a 3,000 watt/52volt-40.8ah (mid-drive), a 750w/52v-27.2ah, and finally a 250whub/36v-20ah (front hub) on a Trek Single Track 930, with 26" wheels. On this last 250w bike, I've disconnected the PAS and use throttle only. It's a 3x8 speed with 44t-32t-24t crankset against a 46t-11t cassette. This gear combination on a good bike like the trek allows 20mph top speed, but climbs any hill up to 15 degrees.
Of all these builds, my favorite and the best by far is the last one - the 250w. This is because:
a) Bike reaches max legal speed of 32km/h (20mph) easily
b) Climbs any hill with ease
c) With the 20ah 36volt pack my range is 90 miles!!!
d) Even if I do run out of battery, the gearing and pedaling is easy that I can still get anywhere, even climbing up to 10-12 degree inclines without e-power)
e) weighs only 48 pounds! Easy to lift, maneuver, and move around
f) by taking off the removable battery, I put it on bike rack for transport
g) FUN!!! It's really fun to blast around with minimal pedaling (average speed of 27km/h) yet have literally no range anxiety. This 250w is so frugal with battery consumption, and the bike invites you to pedal. Pedaling is engaging and super fun, no stress at all!
Sure, I can keep up with car traffic and reach 40mph on my Cyclone 3000 watt mid-drive. But in this motorcycle mode, my big 2kwh 52volt 40.8ah pack is drained in less than 30 miles. Plus the bike is 65 pounds. Pedaling is almost pointless.
The 250 is the way to go.
good day,how many ah is your battery?
Thank you for this demonstration but I am confused. Surely a 250W motor can only deliver 250W yet when you demonstrated in your uphill ride your motor was delivering 500+W. That aside however, you clearly showed that to propel approximately 150kg up a reasonably steep incline 500W is needed therefore if my 250W motor only delivers 250W it follows that I would need to put in sufficient pedalling power to overcome the 250W deficit. Not bad considering that is the power one would normally put into pedalling on the flat.
It is 250W constant power, you can exceed it but it will burn at some point if you ask more from it than it can deliver. If you dunk it on liquid nitrogen, you can most likely get well over 1000W worth of torque from the motor. This is where the price of the motor starts to make differences, cheaper motors do not handle overpower very well whereas more expensive can cope with twice the rating on a cool day.
I have a 500w motor as 250w was not enough , to put on when I'm in Spain next,as I'm 100kg I think that makes a big difference,in Europe we are limited to 250w but you can buy 250w labels on ebay
And that was geared hub motor. They not as strong than mid drive. what was torque?
You can use your smartphone to get an angle reading of slope with proper app, not always easy cause you need to get on your knees to read or mount on a parallel bar on bike, with ground...
Agreed, hard to tell the slope grade percentage from the video, even google maps or komoot might not show the true numbers for small inclines.
Can i add a front electric wheel to my rear assist e bike?
is it Finland where u are in this video?-
350 to 450 is my sweet spot
why would anyone wants to install a higher wattage hub motor if the law wattage can go farther with same battery setup... !!
Because 20kph is too slow.
Munther G-mail cause power and speed. A 1000w can take you up the hill faster and easier. 250 is weak compared to 1000, even 500.
You can still get good range on a 1000w as long as you don’t go too fast and use assist always since the Throttle kills your range
If people drive cars ranging from Micro-cars to Bugatti Chirons, it's fairly likely they will also have different ideas on what e-bike will meet their needs. :o)
People did not sit up and take notice of Tesla cars because they were electric... they became interested because of the massive performance compared to similar fossil fuelled vehicles.
its because most muricans are fat fucks over 130kilos and have no power in their legs
awesome. how many spokes is your rim? what size? i have a folding bike, 16 inch rim and 28 spokes. can i still lace these hubs? i believe they are 36 holes. thanks in advance.
Can we upgrade speed in same motor 250w at 40km/hr.?
GOOD TEST...but...all is in level 5 of assistance without pedals....i wonder how it will be in level 1-3 with pedal
He says the motor is pulling him uphill at 4:00 but if you look at his shadow, you can see him peddling at 4:14
That's because you have to move the pedals for the motor to run - if he didn't pedal, the motor would shut off. That's why he said he was just turning the pedals, not pressing on them.
My 36v 250w Hub Motor goes until 25-28km/h wtf? Yours only take 20km/h?
Ps: 27km/h with 80kg and 23-25km/h with 130kg (Me and my Gf)
Do you have a Bafang brand 250W front hub motor?
Is it mounted to a 20" wheel?
Do you run a 36V battery?
Is your assist cut off set to 25km/h?
Does your bike weigh 35kg?
There are so many things that can be different between our setups.
This same motor will do 27-28km/h on throttle only mounted to a 26" wheel and 11kg MTB and assist cut off set to 35km/h.
40kg girlfriend? Is she 12yo? ))
That's because those motors have different RPM. One can have "speed" motor or "torque" motor and both of them will be the same brand, model. voltage and power. Just different RPM.
E-Bike Commuter E-Bike Commuter 20'' wheel, Bafang BFSWX02 250w, 22kg, 36v 11ah, Cut-Off to 25KM/H BUT with Full Battery 28KM/H (To the Idiot in the comment my GF got 17 years old and she got 46kg and I got 62kg...)
E-Bike Commuter I want to pump it an 58.8v 14ah battery... Do you think it gonna work or is better sell it and buy one that already get the 50km/h (Dream)? (in a 250w motor)
Nice video, very helpful!
Very useful video !!!
Thank you
While going uphill there is shadow of cranking the paddle asist 😂🤣😀
Do all standard 250w ebikes have a restricted chip in them to keep them under 16mph? or are they exempt from this requirement because they're entry level ebikes so they're not considered fast?
Manufactured ones will have a limit. However if you buy a 250w kit that you install yourself it won't and will go about 20mph.