People have asked about velocity differences in bolt action rifles. There's a video titled, ".22 rifle velocity bolt vs. semi" It is an excellent demonstration of the difference. I can't post a link If someone would, that will be very helpful.
I found this one. The tester used a Stevens 87 that can fire semi auto or locked breech single shot. It had a 24" barrel to bad he didn't use the same ammo to add to this test. ua-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/v-deo.html
Figuring the extreme spread of the velocity on the rifles would be a better test as a barrel that's tighter will give more velocity than one that longer and looser.
I always laugh a little when Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" when he has a literal truckload of medals and awards for shooting better than other people. Gotta love that humility
At the risk of being "that guy" his .22 offhand groups do always look just kind of normal to me. Now, a lot of shooters, myself included, fall off in ability quickly with the more theatrical calibers.
Ha! I was reading through comments while listening to chrono firings - - wondering what might have been used as a holder. When I finally saw...Yes, I laughed. "Field-expedient"
Paul Harrel is to the “average shooter” as a Green Beret is to the regular infantry. Makes me chuckle every time Paul claims to be “the average shooter”.
Say... Well, you never saw Mancheski shoot! Too bad he couldn't keep his left foot from his right foot when he marched. 😆 Drill Sargeant tried and tried because he had to go up and get a marksmanship medal, but to no avail.
I've been here since around 20k subs. Paul has remained the same. His style, demeanor, and presentation are the same now as they were then. That is the biggest compliment I think I can give him. Keep on doing what you do the way you do it Paul. It's real, and it works.
I just realized that I subscribed just before he hit 100,000 subs, and how big a deal it seemed when he made the subsequent special. It's kind of strange that he hasn't gotten to 1 mil yet, it seemed like he was putting out a special every few months. He earned my sub by being honest, informative, and entertaining without being boring or long winded.
The crack of a .22lr brings so many memories for me. As a little kid, my dad used to take me woodchuck and rabbit hunting with his old 1957 Winchester model 77. I no longer have my dad and miss him so much. But he gave me that old rifle before he passed and at least I still have that old rifle and take it out now and then to hear that cracking sound and bring back those memories.
When I was a kid, my Dad got a beat-up Remington 514 included with a house he bought. The prior owner fed it rat-shot for educating stray dogs. I covered the stock with black friction tape and it continued the mission up in a couple different trees every night til we moved from there. When my sons came along, I passed this rifle down to my eldest when he turned five. My pet gunsmith and I cut the barrel to 16-1/8", miniaturized the stock, and replaced the issue el crappo sights with Remington centerfire rifle sights. We Parkerized the metal and I rubbed the wood with Tru-Oil, and he gave me a cracked extra stock which I repaired and refinished. Before we started cutting the barrel, we shot some standard velocity target .22s over his chronograph. The photo-screens were pretty new and he wanted to play with it. He shot some as he sawed off every inch, and then made the last cut on the lathe. IDR how long the barrel started out, but there wasn't a lot of difference when we got down between 20 and 16". "Not enough difference to make a difference". Anyhow I just replaced the bolt in that rifle for HIS son, so it's gone four generations now. It's getting actual rimfire target sights and maybe a chunk of rail for a red dot soon, and we're gonna get a plaque made for the stock with room for my grandson's descendants.
I like that Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" As a certified non-professionel I think it's safe to say that Paul is somewhat above the average shooter.
Nah, just your average shooter with a literal bucket of trophies and medals from shooting competitions... plus all sorts of distinctions for marksmanship from both the Army and Marines. Paul's just like us :D
Tested 40 gr CCI minimags through 3 rifles, along with 7 other types of ammo, and it was the most accurate in all 3. So that's what I pick up whenever out and about. Works well in the 22 conversion kit for a G19. One size fits all.
I've read some folks saying their rifle didn't like MM as much as some other same-tier rounds. But that was on the internet. Norma-Tac .22lr is a solid performer, accuracy-wise, at its cost in my two .22lr rifles, both of which are 16" barrel. I don't chrono, so I can't speak to velocity steadiness. I wouldn't choose it for serious accuracy competition, but I have shot Rifleman scores multiple times with it at Appleseed shoots, using two different rifles. T/CR 22, and .22lr dedicated AR, both with Holosun 403 ACSS.
Have a semi-auto pistol and rifle (Marlin 60). Both are finicky with ammo. MiniMags are slightly below the minimum velocity for the pistol. Stingers are more the recommended round (when I can find them). But it runs on MiniMags just fine. And the rifle gobbles them up and spits them out like butter. Eric N mentioned the Winchester White Box. Bought a couple when they were the only thing on the shelf. They wound up with my son's single-shot bolt action. Absolutely useless in my guns.
@@stevebucsh1681 My experience with subsonic rounds is that velocity variations between one round to the next have a greater impact to group size. Standard velocity deviations (1,200fps vs 1,250fps) at 40yds may slightly increase group size. Subsonic deviations (700fps vs 750fps) will significantly increase group size.
Paul Harrell, the best firearms specialist on UA-cam. Edit: Thanks for the support and thumbs up guys. Truly one of the best UA-cam communities around.
Paul, I dig how droll and analytical your channel is. Thanks for your service to our country and your dedication to firearms and firearm knowledge. You kick ass.
Great content, Paul! Keep it up. My experience with the accuracy of a .22lr has led me to believe that ammunition choice has a greater impact than barrel length and even scope vs iron sights. What I mean is, you need to shoot as many different types of ammo as you can, to see which one your rifle “likes.” Yes, there are some general statements like target ammo is normally better than the cheapest stuff you can find, but even then there are caveats. Much to my surprise and to the benefit of my wallet, my Savage bolt action shoots more accurately with CCI standard than any of the 7 “match” ammunitions I tried. “Keep up the Fire.”
I have a Marlin Glenfield Model 20 bolt action. When I was young all we had at the hardware store were Federal Lightnings. It shoots really well to about 100 yards. With CCI Minimags 150 used to be easy. I am not as good as I once was.
A few decades ago I did a barrel length test in 22LR by starting with a long barrel bolt action rifle and cutting the barrel down and test firing it through a chronograph. I would fire a minimum or five shots at each barrel length. I started at 22 inches and finished at 1 inch. Between 16 and 20 inches the velocity was pretty constant. It was a little slower at 22 inches where it was about the same as the 14 inch barrel. Between 1 and 8 inches the velocity increase was rapid but seemed more constant between 8 and 16 inches. It was about 100 fps increase per inch between 1 and 8, and about 20 fps per inch between 10 and 16inches. I used Imperial High velocity ammunition that topped out at about 1240 fps.
That's pretty consistent with my experience. I chrono'd my 10 inch sbr and 16 inch rifle and average total fps difference was 50fps with HV ammo. Within 100 yards it doesn't make too much of a difference; It's only at longer ranges like 100-200 yards where hitting targets consistently becomes far easier with the 16 inch rifle than the SBR
This being largely a study related to the study that was done to determine what the length of a Rifle should be under US Law. .22lr was a "kids rifle" and general purpose enough that it was one of the standards chosen.
Thanks Paul. I like your dry sense of humor it's hilarious and the best part about your videos is that you let the rifle and the numbers speak for itself not somebody trying to sell something
The funniest thing about Pop-Tarts is the difference between the product presentation on the outside of the box (1970s version) and what you get inside the box (2022 shrinkflation version). I think you need to stack up three or for of today’s version to get the delicious nutrition of the original version. Interesting video. I would not have thought about a barrel being too long before.
The modern Pop Tarts suck. They were way thicker back in the 70s. And since no one has said it, the whole Paul Harrell Pop Tarts ad is based on the 70s Camel cigarette ad. Paul sorta looks like that guy. Don't believe me look it up.
My favorite.22 is a Remington model 34 with a long barrel. It’s really the site radius that makes it a tack driver. Oh, and I have had it for thirty years… that probably makes me more comfortable with it.
Thanks for the clarification .. My 10/22 has the 18.5" barrel and I really hadn't thought too much on this topic. It's a comfortable rifle , shoots well and ... it does what it's suppose to do.
About 16 to 18" or so. Shorter and you won't max velocity and will have excessive muzzle report for the cartridge... plus run into legal hassles in some areas. Over 18" and you're likely killing velocity with most ammunition which may also have a detrimental effect on accuracy. Keep up the good work as always, Paul!
Higher velocity does not automatically increase accuracy, at least at typical 22LR ranges of 25-100m. *Consistency* of whatever velocity you are getting is far more important, especially since 22LR is notorious for large standard deviation of velocity.
@@jarink1 very true. The destabilisation of a projectile slowing down in the barrel due to insufficient powder for barrel length generally reduces accuracy, too, which is what I'm referring to here. A shorter barrel in a given profile will be stiffer so there's that to consider as well. All being equal I'd take an 18" over a 22" in 22LR, but really we're splitting hairs pretty fine. Quoting the good Mr Harrell, if your rifle works for you then that's all you need.
@@boingkster destabilizing in the barrel? Where can the bullet go but forward? It's so tightly fitted to the bore that the rifling is engraving a pattern on it. I've heard of destabilizing due to velocity change outside of the barrel. Can you explain?
Fun times. Thanks for answering a "question" that has been rumpling around my head (as I am about to purchase ANOTHER .22LR rifle)... but not enough to do my own research. Results make total sense. Thank You Mr Harrell
Interesting findings. Testing with a chrono is good information. I use one when load developing my hunting loads for deviation purposes. I never focus much on velocity, but DO get excited when the velocity between one shot and the next starts to become larger. I have found when standard deviation decreases, accuracy improves. For 22LR, since I cannot reload it, I just find the ammo that works (most accurate) for my particular gun.
Yeah you gotta avoid ammo that has velocities around the sound barrier, if a round starts super sonic and slows to sub sonic the round destabilizes and leads to inaccuracy. I like ammo that has velocities in the 1350-1450 range as it avoids this issue for most practical ranges. It does reduce your effective range to 120 instead of 150 though, this is due to the lighter bullet weights.
I once met a man who bought a rim thickness gauge and sorted out his 22lr ammo with it . He was of the belief that consistent rim thickness was an important element of rimfire cartridge accuracy among other elements . I never found out how well that worked .
I spent the better part of a year and a few thousand rounds looking for the most accurate and predictable .22lr that cost less than Wolf, SK, and/or the various Eley target rounds. I settled on a couple of rounds made in Mexico with Eley loadings, both of which are no longer available. The most accurate ammo in my tests were all rated on the box at 1200 fps or slower. I used OnTarget, a fired-target evaluation app for PC, and an Excel spreadsheet to identify Standard Deviation from the aim point and group center, and removed flyers from a group when their SD was way beyond average, because to me that identified true flyers better than looking at a target and tossing something out for subjective reasons.
Paul, please launch a line of merchandise, or affiliate with the manufacturer to get a sales commission - I would love to own the jacket that you have. Something tells me that your other viewers might want that also (please like if you agree). With love from Canada! Cheers!
When a few of us old guys get together and one of them starts to complain that nobody younger than us has the wherewithall or competence to tell it like it is.......I give them your youtube channel. I know your getting on, but your still a youngster to some of us. Thanks
I love my Marlin 2000. Essentially a 60 action with a heavy barrel and micro groove. It's boringly accurate out to 100. I still get excited every time I get it out. I've got some high powered stuff as well, but 22lr is way more fun than should be allowed.
the model 60 does have critical problem..the hammer will break a chuck off and then it will not hit the firing pin..had two model 60 rifles fail idenicaly after a couple thousand rounds!
oh I was wrong in my comment. My 2000 is a modified 25 bolt action. Yes the 60 has weak points. The pinned barrel an mag tube are kinda delicate. I've seen a few easily ruined by old fellas taking a small fall in the woods.
@@recondrone1776 That's just crappy luck. I've owned two, one Manufactured in 1972, the other in 1986. Thousands of rounds through both, zero mechanical failures of parts. My first gun was the 1972 version... Wish I still had that one. Bought the 1986 version for $60 in 1995. The owner thought it was a POS jamo-matic. It was barely used... I took it apart, cleaned/lubed it, and adjusted the ejector spring. It's been running like a charm ever since... One of my favorite plinkers.
@@clutchcargo1239 could be but seems to be a problem from my perspective..first one was bought in the early 80's brand new at a Kmart for 29 or 39 bucks used it for years hunting and plinking then one day it stopped firing but I could hear the hammer drop thinking it was a worn out firing pin i took it apart and the hammer was broke..i eventually replaced the hammer and it works fine to this day but i don't send as many round down it like i did before..second one was bought second hand in good condition and eventually failed like the first one..I'm thinking rapid firing is what cause the failures..their still a great gun and will drive a tack..probably one of the most accurate semi auto 22LRF out there in my opinion..I could punch hole in a dime at 40 yards!
It would be interesting to compare velocities of 22LR rifles with the same barrel length, but of different design. Auto-loader vs bolt action vs lever action, and then just for fun throw in different barrel lengths of each as well. Great content, I was happy to see that when we had a function issue Paul didn't shoot the rifle at the end. Also a good thing the chart holder didn't mess up.
Excellent video, as always. Many times we get caught on popular believes, discuss them from a position that is not supported by real knowledge and/or data. With Paul that is not an issue, he shows the data and let the viewer to bring the conclusions. I said this before, he is a real educator. I should know, been working on this are for almost 20 years. He is an entertainer, I would not dream to fast forward the chronograph. But more than anything else he is down to hearth, if I had the inclination and means I could replicate his experiments, no fancy equipment, no outrageous claims, just bring the guns, the meat target, and the soda jugs and WE COULD REPLICATE HIS TESTING. So, thank you. I do appreciate yours (and the crew) time and efforts.
Every time Paul refers to himself as the average shooter , it always brings a smile. oops someone posted that already . I'd like to see Paul shoot with 22plinkster or Kirsten Joy Weiss
Every time I'm looking for info on a topic and there's a Paul Harrell video in the results, that's the first one I click on. Thanks for everything, Paul.
I would like to see a comparison between action types (lever action, bolt action, semi-auto). The barrel length data was very interesting though. Thank you, Paul and crew. As always, excellence was achieved.
I use a 24" BB on my 10/22 to slow my rounds down. Its a suppressed setup , with the longer barrel, I can run most Match and many standard(cheep) velocity rounds , SubSonic out of the barrel. Some times subsonic is harder to find, and in most cases the nice match is still cheaper then the sub
I saw the Harrell thumbnail and I immediately craved a pop tart. Paul...how have you not been hired by those guys? It's the missed marketing opportunity of the decade.
I recently bought a "used" LA322 Deluxe by Chiappa and it's really gotten me back into plinking. Lever-actions have always been attractive to me, and this LA322 is probably the smoothest I've ever fired and its accuracy is top-tier. I'm looking forward to rabbit hunting with it later this year, too. 👍
A firearm and barrel length is very similar to vehicle exhaust header lengths. The explosion in the barrel creates a pressure wave that bounces back and forth. This is why you can see some longer barrels having lower velocity than shorter barrels. Then of course once you get too long the bullet will be pulling a vacuum behind it slowing it down. If everything is timed perfectly for length and a specific pressure then higher velocities can be achieved. Can't really design for this in a firearm due to inconsistencies in bullet weight, powder, PSI, etc. but they do for vehicles to create the most power at a certain rpm where the exhaust pulse pulls in more fresh air and fuel by creating a stronger vacuum in the cylinder.
Absolutely perfect timing for this topic. I'm in the market for a new 22 LR rifle and this question has been on my mind. Thanks for selecting a good topic and, as usual, an excellent presentation.
I literally just got my first .22 rifle yesterday, an old Browning BL-22 grade II with what's probably an equally old Bushmaster 4x scope. Plan to shoot it this weekend. I have a CZ 457 Varmint and scope coming. I remember C&Rsenal's Winchester 1897 video dropped within a few days of my having picked one up at a pawn shop too.
I think this depends on what you are doing. My Stevens 84c with a 24 inch barrel with CCI quiets is dead silent and perfect for raccoons in the city limits. A shot spotter will pickup a 10/22 it does not pickup Stevens 84c.
I have a Stevens 87a with a 24in barrel. Love that old gun. I'll run quiets in bolt action mode & yeah, it sounds like you're running it with a can on. Lotta fun 👍
Years ago we played with 45 Colt rifle ammo that would be quiet out of a 20" Rossi Puma lever gun. I don't remember the exact load off the top of the head, but using just enough powder to completely burn in the barrel made it surprisingly quiet while still delivering a decent thump on the target with a 255 grain lead bullet. The 24" barreled rifles would be even better but both need to only use lubricated lead or they'll stick bullets and the difference between quiet and a stuck bullet is fairly slim...so accuracy in loading very important.
Interesting experiment Paul. Ballistics by the inch, did a lot of work on this also. I actually appreciate having too long a barrel for my cz 455, keeps the shots hearing safe without ear plugs.
BBI is my go to, their optimal length varies between 12 and 14 inches. This is consistent with highly accurate modern position rifles Anschutz, Feiwerkbau, etc. where minuta are important. To make them legal outside of the National Firearms Act and give you a longer sighting radius as they use aperture and globe sights a tube commonly called a bloop tube is installed to extend the barrel and mount the globe sight. A longer rifled barrel also gives you longer to flinch throwing off your shot.
Had to get new account. This is my favorite gun Channel on UA-cam no bs or expensive guns just the facts and truth that's why this is the only channel I hit the Bell on. Thanks Paul keep up the great work
Thanks Paul, another great video which confirmed my suspicions. Maybe someday you can do a video using subsonic .22 ammo with different barrel lengths.
The problem I've encountered with subsonic ammo is the difference from one round to the next. 75fps difference from one round to the next at 1,200fps won't affect your group nearly as much as at 700fps.
@@jacka55six60 Subsonic and standard velocity tend to be more accurate due to the transition from supersonic to subsonic with high velocity .22 ammo. This transition usually happens after 50 years.
I got here early & wanted to leave a clever, witty comment but couldn't think of anything quick enough, so... yeah. I'll think of something & come back later.
Paul’s medals and awards are partially based on his jacket. The jacket ensures consistent stance, aiming, and cool factor. Kidding aside, another great video.
I grew up with my Marlin 60 standard barrel length whatever it was they came with standard back in the 90’s but I recently purchased a Rossi RS22 in an 18 inch barrel and I’m very pleased with the accuracy and performance. Haven’t taken it out past 100 yards though or figured out drop.
I'd like to see something like this only done with other calibers. With the large number of PCCs today I'd like to know if pistol calibers (like 9mm, 38sp, 44sp, 45acp, etc.) have any drag in rifles with longer barrels. Especially among the lever action "cowboy combo" group. You know, the people who carry a pistol and a rifle with the same ammo, because I am one of those people who believe in having two firearms that take the same ammo.
Although very unscientific, Clint at Classic Firearms did a comparison on 9mm velocities with PCC's and found 7-8" being optimal for this caliber...I found that to be very useful. The CZ Scorpion was optimal with its barrel length...
You ahve a very good point: pne problem with just adding barrel length to a pistol caliber rifle is that pistol caliber ammunition is usually filled with fast burning powder to make maximum pressure as soon as possible, so very much extra length might really be a drag.
DDP tastes more like regular than any other soda, but it's taste IS different. Bigger question is, do Pop-Tarts taste more like Toast'ems or vice versa? Nice demo. If one was going to carry the 22 lr as a "truck gun" the shorter barrel would have the storage and deployment advantage, just as it would in thicker brush, or other narrow spaces.
The pop-tarts meme is honestly the best I've seen in a decade; stellar execution, as well. I'm trying to remember where Paul launched the phrase; for some reason, the MRE breakfast video is what comes to mind.
People have asked about velocity differences in bolt action rifles.
There's a video titled, ".22 rifle velocity bolt vs. semi" It is an excellent demonstration of the difference.
I can't post a link If someone would, that will be very helpful.
ua-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/v-deo.html by the youtuber 314299 Shooting Channel, 6 years ago?
This one? ua-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/v-deo.html
I found this one. The tester used a Stevens 87 that can fire semi auto or locked breech single shot. It had a 24" barrel to bad he didn't use the same ammo to add to this test.
ua-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/v-deo.html
Figuring the extreme spread of the velocity on the rifles would be a better test as a barrel that's tighter will give more velocity than one that longer and looser.
Yes bolt action .22 rifle only..amazingly accurate
I always laugh a little when Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" when he has a literal truckload of medals and awards for shooting better than other people. Gotta love that humility
At the risk of being "that guy" his .22 offhand groups do always look just kind of normal to me. Now, a lot of shooters, myself included, fall off in ability quickly with the more theatrical calibers.
That's how you know the whole world's in order. Lol
Well, he’s old now, so…
Yes. I clearly have some catching up to do 😃
Average among his peers?
R.I.P. Paul, the advice is timeless, I hope 30 years from now people will still find your videos informative and useful.
Dam i miss this dude, glad he put out answers for almost everything before he left
So a 16 inch 22lr barrel is ideal. Perfect. Thanks for all your work Paul!
I like the chart holder. Hope you don't have to use the same system for a target holder.
😂😂👍
The new and improved meat target.
Ha! I was reading through comments while listening to chrono firings - - wondering what might have been used as a holder. When I finally saw...Yes, I laughed. "Field-expedient"
Surprisingly stable!
@@tommygatch LOL!!!!!!!!!
Paul Harrel is to the “average shooter” as a Green Beret is to the regular infantry. Makes me chuckle every time Paul claims to be “the average shooter”.
well at least you cant blame his lack of skill for differences.
Say... Well, you never saw Mancheski shoot! Too bad he couldn't keep his left foot from his right foot when he marched. 😆 Drill Sargeant tried and tried because he had to go up and get a marksmanship medal, but to no avail.
I've been here since around 20k subs. Paul has remained the same. His style, demeanor, and presentation are the same now as they were then. That is the biggest compliment I think I can give him. Keep on doing what you do the way you do it Paul. It's real, and it works.
He’s a national treasure!
"If it ain't broke, ..."
I liked the episode where he was in the water splashing around...busted me up...love His humour.
He didnt get his start on YT. The man has been a real professional for a while now
I just realized that I subscribed just before he hit 100,000 subs, and how big a deal it seemed when he made the subsequent special. It's kind of strange that he hasn't gotten to 1 mil yet, it seemed like he was putting out a special every few months.
He earned my sub by being honest, informative, and entertaining without being boring or long winded.
The crack of a .22lr brings so many memories for me. As a little kid, my dad used to take me woodchuck and rabbit hunting with his old 1957 Winchester model 77. I no longer have my dad and miss him so much. But he gave me that old rifle before he passed and at least I still have that old rifle and take it out now and then to hear that cracking sound and bring back those memories.
“…accuracy can be achieved by the average shooter.”
And this is said with a straight face, as though Paul is an average shooter.
Yeah, what a standard for me to try for if Paul is "the average shooter". Maybe a few reincarnation cycles will do it?
He's no Jerry Miculek so I'd have to say he's average, on camera, but then again he's got all those trophies...tough call
Paul Harrell's channel and Ian's Forgotten weapons channel are all you need
no love for C&Rsenal?
@@grben9959 they are also great but Ian an Paul are mandatory
When I was a kid, my Dad got a beat-up Remington 514 included with a house he bought. The prior owner fed it rat-shot for educating stray dogs. I covered the stock with black friction tape and it continued the mission up in a couple different trees every night til we moved from there. When my sons came along, I passed this rifle down to my eldest when he turned five. My pet gunsmith and I cut the barrel to 16-1/8", miniaturized the stock, and replaced the issue el crappo sights with Remington centerfire rifle sights. We Parkerized the metal and I rubbed the wood with Tru-Oil, and he gave me a cracked extra stock which I repaired and refinished. Before we started cutting the barrel, we shot some standard velocity target .22s over his chronograph. The photo-screens were pretty new and he wanted to play with it. He shot some as he sawed off every inch, and then made the last cut on the lathe. IDR how long the barrel started out, but there wasn't a lot of difference when we got down between 20 and 16". "Not enough difference to make a difference".
Anyhow I just replaced the bolt in that rifle for HIS son, so it's gone four generations now. It's getting actual rimfire target sights and maybe a chunk of rail for a red dot soon, and we're gonna get a plaque made for the stock with room for my grandson's descendants.
I like that Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter"
As a certified non-professionel I think it's safe to say that Paul is somewhat above the average shooter.
Nah, just your average shooter with a literal bucket of trophies and medals from shooting competitions... plus all sorts of distinctions for marksmanship from both the Army and Marines. Paul's just like us :D
His body count is impressive
Paul doesn't shoot a round, the round runs away from him
I'm guessing he's an average shooter for a former marine and later soldier who is a combat infantryman who wins competitions?
IE not average 🤣🤣
I'm happy to see none of the rear sights fell off any of the rifles Paul used in this vodeo!
My takeaway - no matter what .22lr rifle you own, CCI MiniMag is a solid performer at a reasonable price point.
Tested 40 gr CCI minimags through 3 rifles, along with 7 other types of ammo, and it was the most accurate in all 3. So that's what I pick up whenever out and about. Works well in the 22 conversion kit for a G19. One size fits all.
I've read some folks saying their rifle didn't like MM as much as some other same-tier rounds. But that was on the internet.
Norma-Tac .22lr is a solid performer, accuracy-wise, at its cost in my two .22lr rifles, both of which are 16" barrel. I don't chrono, so I can't speak to velocity steadiness. I wouldn't choose it for serious accuracy competition, but I have shot Rifleman scores multiple times with it at Appleseed shoots, using two different rifles. T/CR 22, and .22lr dedicated AR, both with Holosun 403 ACSS.
Minimags work for me.
I buy off brand ammo for plinking.
CCI MM had always been my most consistent .22lr round. WWB being the worst thing I've ever tried to shoot out of a semi auto .22.
Have a semi-auto pistol and rifle (Marlin 60). Both are finicky with ammo. MiniMags are slightly below the minimum velocity for the pistol. Stingers are more the recommended round (when I can find them). But it runs on MiniMags just fine. And the rifle gobbles them up and spits them out like butter. Eric N mentioned the Winchester White Box. Bought a couple when they were the only thing on the shelf. They wound up with my son's single-shot bolt action. Absolutely useless in my guns.
The PopTarts commercials always make me smile :D
Best firearms content on the interwebs! And the humor is on point. The added plus is all the practical information we get to digest! Thanks!
If there was such a thing as the interweb, Paul would be the best on it.
@@LTVoyager
Hey, don't knock the one thing I get from our British friends. Lol
Its between Mr. Harrell and James from TFBtv lol JK🤣
Agreed: hands down the very best.
@@Cityoftrees1911 James is halfahomo (shortyshorts) & has a cat, but no children...
" Field Expedient Chart Holder " , so THATS what its called !! I missed it the first time!
Paul Harrell referring to himself as "the average shooter" always cracks me up.
The only channel I'll sit through commercials for.
A debate I've had at the gun club. Thanks Paul. Seems like this experiment would be more interesting from a .22 pistol.
The other interesting case would be with subsonic ammo
@@stevebucsh1681 My experience with subsonic rounds is that velocity variations between one round to the next have a greater impact to group size. Standard velocity deviations (1,200fps vs 1,250fps) at 40yds may slightly increase group size. Subsonic deviations (700fps vs 750fps) will significantly increase group size.
I would like to see a velocity comparison between
pistol barrels in 4 in and 6 in and then this chart.
Just for information purposes.
@@___meph___4547 ...that would be supersonic....
@@shawnr771 Lucky gunner labs has 2" vs 4" or close to it, tests in almost every caliber pistol.
Well done, My good teacher
As an early GenXer who grew up seeing those "Where a Man Belongs" Camel ads, I love the parodies!
My day just got better!
I literally just made a pop tart before I started the video. Definitely had a good laugh
A pop tart intro!! Thank you Paul been missing those!
Pop Tart full flavor.. In the green and white box.
Thanks brother!💌 Respect
Paul Harrell, the best firearms specialist on UA-cam.
Edit: Thanks for the support and thumbs up guys. Truly one of the best UA-cam communities around.
Did he shoot someone again
I'd go with Brandon Herrera, Demo Ranch, Hickock and Paul Harrell as a top 4 in no particular order as my favorite guntubers.
@@nickamalfitano3613 EXACTLY
Without a doubt!
And the best Poptarts specialist.
Always a treat.
Paul, I dig how droll and analytical your channel is. Thanks for your service to our country and your dedication to firearms and firearm knowledge. You kick ass.
Brilliant as always. Watching from The Netherlands (West Europe) and anjoying.
The way Paul looks at the camera with a straight face and then points to himself and says “average shooter.“
Loving the new and improved, high tech chart holder.
Paul is far better than an average shooter
@0:07 Paul, the one reason that I most enjoy your channel, you are 110% not afraid to be you. Kudos sir and keep up the great work!
Paul is on his way to a million, he deserves it
Definitely does.
This was good ! Thanks Paul
Paul is the GOAT
Great content, Paul! Keep it up. My experience with the accuracy of a .22lr has led me to believe that ammunition choice has a greater impact than barrel length and even scope vs iron sights. What I mean is, you need to shoot as many different types of ammo as you can, to see which one your rifle “likes.” Yes, there are some general statements like target ammo is normally better than the cheapest stuff you can find, but even then there are caveats. Much to my surprise and to the benefit of my wallet, my Savage bolt action shoots more accurately with CCI standard than any of the 7 “match” ammunitions I tried. “Keep up the Fire.”
I have a Marlin Glenfield Model 20 bolt action.
When I was young all we had at the hardware store were Federal Lightnings.
It shoots really well to about 100 yards.
With CCI Minimags 150 used to be easy.
I am not as good as I once was.
A few decades ago I did a barrel length test in 22LR by starting with a long barrel bolt action rifle and cutting the barrel down and test firing it through a chronograph. I would fire a minimum or five shots at each barrel length. I started at 22 inches and finished at 1 inch. Between 16 and 20 inches the velocity was pretty constant. It was a little slower at 22 inches where it was about the same as the 14 inch barrel. Between 1 and 8 inches the velocity increase was rapid but seemed more constant between 8 and 16 inches. It was about 100 fps increase per inch between 1 and 8, and about 20 fps per inch between 10 and 16inches. I used Imperial High velocity ammunition that topped out at about 1240 fps.
That's pretty consistent with my experience. I chrono'd my 10 inch sbr and 16 inch rifle and average total fps difference was 50fps with HV ammo. Within 100 yards it doesn't make too much of a difference; It's only at longer ranges like 100-200 yards where hitting targets consistently becomes far easier with the 16 inch rifle than the SBR
[ATF has joined the chat]
This being largely a study related to the study that was done to determine what the length of a Rifle should be under US Law. .22lr was a "kids rifle" and general purpose enough that it was one of the standards chosen.
@@glennpearson3056 Statute of limitations
@@glennpearson3056 ATF agent: "Hey Justice Department, what's the statue of limitations on an SBR violation?"
Your a old school legend Paul. Days on the force are not the same anymore
I freaking love this channel.
Excellent man 👏🏻
I love how Paul thinks he's an 'average' shooter.
Thanks Paul. I like your dry sense of humor it's hilarious and the best part about your videos is that you let the rifle and the numbers speak for itself not somebody trying to sell something
The funniest thing about Pop-Tarts is the difference between the product presentation on the outside of the box (1970s version) and what you get inside the box (2022 shrinkflation version). I think you need to stack up three or for of today’s version to get the delicious nutrition of the original version. Interesting video. I would not have thought about a barrel being too long before.
The modern Pop Tarts suck. They were way thicker back in the 70s. And since no one has said it, the whole Paul Harrell Pop Tarts ad is based on the 70s Camel cigarette ad. Paul sorta looks like that guy. Don't believe me look it up.
i remember actually liking poptarts when i was a kid in the 90s now theyre just gross because theres no filling in them.
I remember when pop tarts didn't get lost in the toaster.....
First choice is blueberry, second choice is strawberry. Do not like the cinnamon ones, tastes like cardboard to me.
Explained the drag of the bullet very well! Thanks Paul!!
Very helpful information. There's only so much speed you're going to get after a point.
Loved your numbers “stand” today.
My favorite.22 is a Remington model 34 with a long barrel. It’s really the site radius that makes it a tack driver. Oh, and I have had it for thirty years… that probably makes me more comfortable with it.
Thank you for the data!!
My 16” heavy barrel on a Ruger 10/22, is by far my favourite in 22lr! Thanks Paul, great video again!
Thanks for the clarification ..
My 10/22 has the 18.5" barrel and I really hadn't thought too much on this topic.
It's a comfortable rifle , shoots well and ... it does what it's suppose to do.
Always keep the chronograph!
Thanks for the good information Paul. RIP THE GOAT
About 16 to 18" or so. Shorter and you won't max velocity and will have excessive muzzle report for the cartridge... plus run into legal hassles in some areas. Over 18" and you're likely killing velocity with most ammunition which may also have a detrimental effect on accuracy.
Keep up the good work as always, Paul!
Did you watch the video?
Higher velocity does not automatically increase accuracy, at least at typical 22LR ranges of 25-100m. *Consistency* of whatever velocity you are getting is far more important, especially since 22LR is notorious for large standard deviation of velocity.
@@jarink1 very true. The destabilisation of a projectile slowing down in the barrel due to insufficient powder for barrel length generally reduces accuracy, too, which is what I'm referring to here. A shorter barrel in a given profile will be stiffer so there's that to consider as well. All being equal I'd take an 18" over a 22" in 22LR, but really we're splitting hairs pretty fine. Quoting the good Mr Harrell, if your rifle works for you then that's all you need.
@@boingkster destabilizing in the barrel? Where can the bullet go but forward? It's so tightly fitted to the bore that the rifling is engraving a pattern on it. I've heard of destabilizing due to velocity change outside of the barrel. Can you explain?
No, he could NOT explain.
Fun times.
Thanks for answering a "question" that has been rumpling around my head (as I am about to purchase ANOTHER .22LR rifle)... but not enough to do my own research.
Results make total sense.
Thank You Mr Harrell
Interesting findings. Testing with a chrono is good information. I use one when load developing my hunting loads for deviation purposes. I never focus much on velocity, but DO get excited when the velocity between one shot and the next starts to become larger. I have found when standard deviation decreases, accuracy improves. For 22LR, since I cannot reload it, I just find the ammo that works (most accurate) for my particular gun.
well less standard deviation does land more consistent results, tahnks for shraing man
@@mrvladimirputin9828 Da!
Yeah you gotta avoid ammo that has velocities around the sound barrier, if a round starts super sonic and slows to sub sonic the round destabilizes and leads to inaccuracy. I like ammo that has velocities in the 1350-1450 range as it avoids this issue for most practical ranges. It does reduce your effective range to 120 instead of 150 though, this is due to the lighter bullet weights.
I once met a man who bought a rim thickness gauge and sorted out his 22lr ammo with it . He was of the belief that consistent rim thickness was an important element of rimfire cartridge accuracy among other elements . I never found out how well that worked .
I spent the better part of a year and a few thousand rounds looking for the most accurate and predictable .22lr that cost less than Wolf, SK, and/or the various Eley target rounds. I settled on a couple of rounds made in Mexico with Eley loadings, both of which are no longer available. The most accurate ammo in my tests were all rated on the box at 1200 fps or slower. I used OnTarget, a fired-target evaluation app for PC, and an Excel spreadsheet to identify Standard Deviation from the aim point and group center, and removed flyers from a group when their SD was way beyond average, because to me that identified true flyers better than looking at a target and tossing something out for subjective reasons.
Thanks Paul. You're a legend.
Paul, please launch a line of merchandise, or affiliate with the manufacturer to get a sales commission - I would love to own the jacket that you have. Something tells me that your other viewers might want that also (please like if you agree).
With love from Canada! Cheers!
When a few of us old guys get together and one of them starts to complain that nobody younger than us has the wherewithall or competence to tell it like it is.......I give them your youtube channel. I know your getting on, but your still a youngster to some of us. Thanks
The marlin model 60 22” bbl with marlin’s patented micro grooving is a formidable plinker.
I love my Marlin 2000. Essentially a 60 action with a heavy barrel and micro groove. It's boringly accurate out to 100. I still get excited every time I get it out. I've got some high powered stuff as well, but 22lr is way more fun than should be allowed.
the model 60 does have critical problem..the hammer will break a chuck off and then it will not hit the firing pin..had two model 60 rifles fail idenicaly after a couple thousand rounds!
oh I was wrong in my comment. My 2000 is a modified 25 bolt action.
Yes the 60 has weak points. The pinned barrel an mag tube are kinda delicate. I've seen a few easily ruined by old fellas taking a small fall in the woods.
@@recondrone1776 That's just crappy luck. I've owned two, one Manufactured in 1972, the other in 1986. Thousands of rounds through both, zero mechanical failures of parts. My first gun was the 1972 version... Wish I still had that one. Bought the 1986 version for $60 in 1995. The owner thought it was a POS jamo-matic. It was barely used... I took it apart, cleaned/lubed it, and adjusted the ejector spring. It's been running like a charm ever since... One of my favorite plinkers.
@@clutchcargo1239 could be but seems to be a problem from my perspective..first one was bought in the early 80's brand new at a Kmart for 29 or 39 bucks used it for years hunting and plinking then one day it stopped firing but I could hear the hammer drop thinking it was a worn out firing pin i took it apart and the hammer was broke..i eventually replaced the hammer and it works fine to this day but i don't send as many round down it like i did before..second one was bought second hand in good condition and eventually failed like the first one..I'm thinking rapid firing is what cause the failures..their still a great gun and will drive a tack..probably one of the most accurate semi auto 22LRF out there in my opinion..I could punch hole in a dime at 40 yards!
You're objectivity keeps me on. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
It would be interesting to compare velocities of 22LR rifles with the same barrel length, but of different design. Auto-loader vs bolt action vs lever action, and then just for fun throw in different barrel lengths of each as well. Great content, I was happy to see that when we had a function issue Paul didn't shoot the rifle at the end. Also a good thing the chart holder didn't mess up.
Yeah, I was kinda curious about that too. I'm guessing there would be a difference, but likewise only a small one.
Excellent video, as always.
Many times we get caught on popular believes, discuss them from a position that is not supported by real knowledge and/or data. With Paul that is not an issue, he shows the data and let the viewer to bring the conclusions.
I said this before, he is a real educator. I should know, been working on this are for almost 20 years. He is an entertainer, I would not dream to fast forward the chronograph.
But more than anything else he is down to hearth, if I had the inclination and means I could replicate his experiments, no fancy equipment, no outrageous claims, just bring the guns, the meat target, and the soda jugs and WE COULD REPLICATE HIS TESTING.
So, thank you. I do appreciate yours (and the crew) time and efforts.
Every time Paul refers to himself as the average shooter , it always brings a smile. oops someone posted that already . I'd like to see Paul shoot with 22plinkster or Kirsten Joy Weiss
Every time I'm looking for info on a topic and there's a Paul Harrell video in the results, that's the first one I click on. Thanks for everything, Paul.
You will never be forgotten Paul !
I would like to see a comparison between action types (lever action, bolt action, semi-auto). The barrel length data was very interesting though. Thank you, Paul and crew. As always, excellence was achieved.
love the subtle sarcasm and awesome humor for the thinking mind, thank you for another great "expand the mind" presentation - an Army war doc
I use a 24" BB on my 10/22 to slow my rounds down. Its a suppressed setup , with the longer barrel, I can run most Match and many standard(cheep) velocity rounds , SubSonic out of the barrel. Some times subsonic is harder to find, and in most cases the nice match is still cheaper then the sub
I saw the Harrell thumbnail and I immediately craved a pop tart. Paul...how have you not been hired by those guys? It's the missed marketing opportunity of the decade.
I recently bought a "used" LA322 Deluxe by Chiappa and it's really gotten me back into plinking. Lever-actions have always been attractive to me, and this LA322 is probably the smoothest I've ever fired and its accuracy is top-tier. I'm looking forward to rabbit hunting with it later this year, too. 👍
May all your wabbits be wascawwy.
I enjoyed your display stand. Seems far more versatile than any tripod.
Yeah, baby!
A firearm and barrel length is very similar to vehicle exhaust header lengths. The explosion in the barrel creates a pressure wave that bounces back and forth. This is why you can see some longer barrels having lower velocity than shorter barrels. Then of course once you get too long the bullet will be pulling a vacuum behind it slowing it down. If everything is timed perfectly for length and a specific pressure then higher velocities can be achieved. Can't really design for this in a firearm due to inconsistencies in bullet weight, powder, PSI, etc. but they do for vehicles to create the most power at a certain rpm where the exhaust pulse pulls in more fresh air and fuel by creating a stronger vacuum in the cylinder.
Absolutely perfect timing for this topic. I'm in the market for a new 22 LR rifle and this question has been on my mind. Thanks for selecting a good topic and, as usual, an excellent presentation.
I literally just got my first .22 rifle yesterday, an old Browning BL-22 grade II with what's probably an equally old Bushmaster 4x scope. Plan to shoot it this weekend.
I have a CZ 457 Varmint and scope coming.
I remember C&Rsenal's Winchester 1897 video dropped within a few days of my having picked one up at a pawn shop too.
Also, whoever was holding the results sign is a true hero.
I'm getting to the age where putting the front sight farther away helps.
Well done.
I think this depends on what you are doing. My Stevens 84c with a 24 inch barrel with CCI quiets is dead silent and perfect for raccoons in the city limits. A shot spotter will pickup a 10/22 it does not pickup Stevens 84c.
I have a Stevens 87a with a 24in barrel. Love that old gun. I'll run quiets in bolt action mode & yeah, it sounds like you're running it with a can on. Lotta fun 👍
shot a raccoon square in the head with a 22 , it knocked him out cold , he then got away , or he was a great faker , knocked him on his face though
Or you could just use a quality air rifle and not have to ignore pesky laws.
@@rydplrs71 less noise then an air rifle.
Years ago we played with 45 Colt rifle ammo that would be quiet out of a 20" Rossi Puma lever gun. I don't remember the exact load off the top of the head, but using just enough powder to completely burn in the barrel made it surprisingly quiet while still delivering a decent thump on the target with a 255 grain lead bullet. The 24" barreled rifles would be even better but both need to only use lubricated lead or they'll stick bullets and the difference between quiet and a stuck bullet is fairly slim...so accuracy in loading very important.
Always good information, thank you for sharing
Interesting experiment Paul. Ballistics by the inch, did a lot of work on this also. I actually appreciate having too long a barrel for my cz 455, keeps the shots hearing safe without ear plugs.
BBI is my go to, their optimal length varies between 12 and 14 inches. This is consistent with highly accurate modern position rifles Anschutz, Feiwerkbau, etc. where minuta are important. To make them legal outside of the National Firearms Act and give you a longer sighting radius as they use aperture and globe sights a tube commonly called a bloop tube is installed to extend the barrel and mount the globe sight. A longer rifled barrel also gives you longer to flinch throwing off your shot.
Had to get new account. This is my favorite gun Channel on UA-cam no bs or expensive guns just the facts and truth that's why this is the only channel I hit the Bell on. Thanks Paul keep up the great work
Thanks Paul, another great video which confirmed my suspicions. Maybe someday you can do a video using subsonic .22 ammo with different barrel lengths.
The problem I've encountered with subsonic ammo is the difference from one round to the next. 75fps difference from one round to the next at 1,200fps won't affect your group nearly as much as at 700fps.
@@jacka55six60 Subsonic and standard velocity tend to be more accurate due to the transition from supersonic to subsonic with high velocity .22 ammo. This transition usually happens after 50 years.
Miss you already man... stay strong.
I got here early & wanted to leave a clever, witty comment but couldn't think of anything quick enough, so... yeah.
I'll think of something & come back later.
Paul’s medals and awards are partially based on his jacket. The jacket ensures consistent stance, aiming, and cool factor. Kidding aside, another great video.
I grew up with my Marlin 60 standard barrel length whatever it was they came with standard back in the 90’s but I recently purchased a Rossi RS22 in an 18 inch barrel and I’m very pleased with the accuracy and performance. Haven’t taken it out past 100 yards though or figured out drop.
9:35 An organic reusable display holder...nice
Paul is the GOAT! Is there anything this guy doesn’t know about firearms and how to use them? Me thinks not!
He is the Godfather of guns! 👍
Underwater fullauto harpoon rifles.
@@Xmara01
😂
@@johnanderson3405 it's a thing.
@@johnanderson3405 www.imfdb.org/wiki/APS_Underwater_Assault_Rifle
Enjoyed the video. Happy Labor Day weekend to you and the crew!
I'd like to see something like this only done with other calibers. With the large number of PCCs today I'd like to know if pistol calibers (like 9mm, 38sp, 44sp, 45acp, etc.) have any drag in rifles with longer barrels. Especially among the lever action "cowboy combo" group. You know, the people who carry a pistol and a rifle with the same ammo, because I am one of those people who believe in having two firearms that take the same ammo.
Although very unscientific, Clint at Classic Firearms did a comparison on 9mm velocities with PCC's and found 7-8" being optimal for this caliber...I found that to be very useful. The CZ Scorpion was optimal with its barrel length...
I have a S&W 686-6 with a 4-inch barrel and a Henry with an 18-inch barrel and my go to combo. It works well for me. Your results may vary.
You ahve a very good point: pne problem with just adding barrel length to a pistol caliber rifle is that pistol caliber ammunition is usually filled with fast burning powder to make maximum pressure as soon as possible, so very much extra length might really be a drag.
Thanks Paul and crew.
DDP tastes more like regular than any other soda, but it's taste IS different. Bigger question is, do Pop-Tarts taste more like Toast'ems or vice versa?
Nice demo. If one was going to carry the 22 lr as a "truck gun" the shorter barrel would have the storage and deployment advantage, just as it would in thicker brush, or other narrow spaces.
Pop tarts, like a man.
Pop-tarts! Cinnamon Brown Sugar or the fudge-y ones.
The pop-tarts meme is honestly the best I've seen in a decade; stellar execution, as well.
I'm trying to remember where Paul launched the phrase; for some reason, the MRE breakfast video is what comes to mind.
Great and insightful evaluation, Paul. That said, I know that I feel more MANLY when I'm packin' a longer barrel, even if it IS just a 22LR.
Yes about time Paul it was needed
It's an amazing coincidence that I was just thinking about this lately, and what do you know, he makes a video on it!