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That ground news seems close to a genuinely even split of news sources across the board. I can honestly say for the first time ever, I am actually going to look at a sponsor from a UA-cam video after this. I've very curious now.
There was no mention of this lime green line carrying on from Hackney and then appearing to take over the central line Leytonstone all the way up to Epping ?!?!!
IMO the best name for that Euston-Kings'-Cross-St-Pancas-Golly-Gee-Whiz station is "Disaster", because for anyone who has to catch a train in anything less than four hours' time, that's _exactly_ what it will be.
As a Project Manager within Construction and Infrastructure with 10 years experience, Crossrail 2 is desperately needed (along with other major infrastructure investment). The U.K's ability to futureproof is awful, as no current government wants to commit to £bns in infrastructure spending for 10-20+ years in the future which has no immediate political pay-off. That's fine in the short term, but when you do get 10-20+ years down the line you suddenly have a very big problem with no easy or quick solutions, and this inevitably results in downward spiral. Look at how successful Crossrail/Elizabeth Line has been since it's opening, almost no-one remembers that it was delayed by 4 years because it's delivering such a significant benefit to the Public! Britian as a nation is crying out for long-term strategic investment in our public assets which actually benefit us in the near and far future.
This is why HS2 being started then slashed in half and then cancelled beyond Phase 1A is such a massive f u to the British public. That was going to be infrastructure for the next 120 years worth of expansion like the West and East Coast Mainlines were in the Victorian era.
Since you are a planner, let me ask you something: Why does Crossrail 2 suggest building new tunnels for slow/stopping services relatively near to existing quad track railways, rather than building new cheaper tunnels for fast trains freeing up more capacity for slow and semi-fast suburban/regional trains on the existing quad track railways? Sure, the core section should absolutely be built with short distances between stations and be used by suburban trains, But next to places like Clapham Jn it seems like a good idea to swap so that the trains that runs in a new central core tunnel surfaces and uses the existing railway, while the fast trains that terminate at Victoria or Waterloo dives down and runs in tunnel outside Clapham Jn. (Or for that sake swap around which is in tunnel and which is not at Clapham Jn if there are any particular benefits for one or the other). Sure, there would be a need for emergency exits built if there are no or few stations along a long underground tunnel, but that must surely be way cheaper than building stations. Is this just due to it being politically easier to sell the idea of new stations to the general public? IIRC I've read arguments that close by the existing Southwestern quad track main line the population density isn't that high. But that can IMHO be seen as a reason for infill development and whatnot, and the existing state can also be seen as a result of not that great frequency at the suburban stations along the route.
And HS2 north of Brum. please. Stopping there is almost pointless. Extra capacity (for freight) is needed on the WCML. As for travel across the Pennines...
I'd agree the UK is useless at future proofing, but it's more than time elsewhere got a bite of the money pie for transport. Many fully costed plans have been thrown out because of the demand in Londoncentric attitudes in parliament and by big business. Id argue that TfL and the Councils really ought to finance the planning stages themselves. But what is needed is a massive overhaul of the planning and finance of large long term construction project such as Cross Rail or Leeds Trams. Personally I'd support a plan that Central Government sponsors a set amount say 30% of any transit project, then the regional transit bodies sponsors another 40% from fares with councils giving the rest from a small levy on top of council tax much akin to what happened for the Olympics.
@@paintedpilgrim That's kind of how it works in London. London has independence in generating capital expenditure. No other part of England has that legal power and is thus almost entirely dependent on Treasury. London also has a lot of power in what happens compared to other regions. Manchester just got control of the busses again and will take control of regional trains by the end of the decade. It's a start, but Greater Manchester and the other city regions really should have TfL and Greater London style deregualtion for infrastructure projects. Everywhere outside of the M25 relies on Westminster, and they just aren't interested with things that far away. They aren't even interested in things within it most of the time either, they hate funding things and only do it begrudgingly because it'll benefit them in some direct way too. It's also worth pointing out that this government hasn't done a single large project. Crossrail was put into law by the last Labour government, so was HS2. Even the Olympics was done by the last government, they just happpened to have been built (or partly built then canned) by the Tories because they were kind of obligated to.
Since no actual London Central Station is ever going to happen, this might be as close as we're getting to that, so that perfectly good name might as well be used for this (if it ever actually does happen).
@@ospero7681 TCR would be central, if you have a "CR3" Milton keynes to Euston/Baker street to Cannon street which branches to bermondsey or C2Ctakeover
Except it is in NW Central London , wasnt served by Great Central (but is by Grand Central) and doesnt have the Central Line going through it. It is probably best called North Midtown
It’s a shame they pulled the plug on this one, even as planned it missed the genuine opportunity to connect other parts of London directly to Stansted Airport without having to fight to Liverpool Street, Tottenham Hale or Stratford. It could also have run 24hr for that purpose and helped to greenify/cheapify those getting to Stansted for the horrific 06:00 Ryanair flights, avoiding the £120+ minicabs to catch your £9.99 flight (+£38 carry-on, +£60 suitcase, +£12 seat reservation, +£13-78 air passenger duty… oh no I’m getting carried away).
6:57 the reason the northern line extension didn’t get extended to CJ was more because the northern line wouldn’t be able to handle it rather than CJ station itself. The trains would just get crush loaded right at the start, and no one would then be able to use the trains from there at all the intermediate stations
Interesting thought. However, I've often wondered why people would want to change on to the Northern Line at CJ. From SWR they could just carry on into Waterloo which is quicker and has more NL trains, and from Southern there are generally good alternative routes available from Victoria. The NL could handle the numbers changing from the Overground.
@@jasonhaven7170 For some journeys, not for others. For example, most people coming from the southern suburbs and further afield go into Victoria rather than change onto the Northern line at Balham. Similar things would apply to people on suburban or long distance train into Waterloo - it's quicker and more pleasant to carry on into the terminus rather than getting off at Clapham Junction and taking the tube from there (if one existed). There are exceptions; Finsbury Park is a more convenient interchange between tube and National Rail than the Kings Cross labyrinth.
I live in Enfield, and so frequent the Greater Anglia lines that run into Liverpool St. and Stratford a lot. It's worth mentioning that when Angel was closed down and Meridian Water was built to replace it - Meridian Water was built to Crossrail Specifications, ready for when the rest of Crossrail 2 was built. The same applies for Tottenham Hale and Northumberland Park when they were recently upgraded, they are all ready for Crossrail 2, which would reduce the time taken to build the line if and when it happens. My vote for the Mega Station at Euston/Kings Cross/St. Pancras is "Mega Station" - I wonder if they'd be brave enough to use it!
Interesting to hear it’s not happening. London Boroughs are still charging a Community Infrastructure Levy on new developments, specifically to fund Crossrail2.
I think it should be called the Albert Line. I'm speculating that this will be the name of Prince George's first son, who it'll be posthumously named after.
I suppose though that depends on whether they are first in line. If they are first in line, George might want to go with a more regal sounding name, such as to maintain some continuity with past monarchs, and I'm not sure whether he would want a first. By all means though, if George has a daughter first and that son is the spare, it doesn't really matter.
@@Cowman9791 Perhaps Charles IV (Henry and Edward are 'already many' with George (and James in Scotland) close behind; all three Richards died untimely; Stephen and John were Bad Kings (a la 1066 and all that).
I chuckled at the two subtitles "By London standards, don't start". Although it is only two miles away, I last travelled by train from my local station in 1980, so it is good to know that at least some metropolitan types realise the irony of building or not building Crossrail 2 for us oiks here in the Midlands.
Crossrail 2 or "we really really want it and need it but will probably not live to see it." As for the Mega-station I would say either St Pancras Interchange or London Grafton, both nods to the heritage of the area
@highpath4776 The Earl of Euston is the Duke of Grafton's son or other heir. So one up from Euston in rank and importance should logically be Grafton.
A point to add to your commentary: Just as the northern arms would free up capacity at Liverpool St (for more Greater Anglia trains) the local trains going underground at Wimbledon would free up lots of capacity in from there to Waterloo which was to be used to increase the trains coming in from Woking and beyond as there would be more platforms available at Waterloo and space on the existing lines, so Crossrail 2 would improve services in Southampton and Cambridge.
@@paulhaynes8045 Because people will be getting the train from outside London so they need to know what city it's going to. Same reason that in airports signs say London Heathrow rather than just Heathrow
By the time Crossrail II happens it will probably be called the Charlotte line. As for the name for E.St.P.K.X. ? East Park Junction in North West One? "Clear as mud junction" lol. I think of E.St.P&KX as being in north London (NW1) but for most people it is quite central.
First time I've ever seen a reference to Upper Halliford on UA-cam, and possibly the internet! Brings back some great memories ❤️ Shepperton always got the mentions ☹️
London is missing a central station, and the city rail network is mainly connected by the Elizabeth line and Thameslink. I really like the idea of a big station connecting multiple mainlines in London to one hub. I would like it to be called "London Central".
We could name new lines with share links with. As far as HSUK Map planning was; 'Westlink' is a name from Thameslink 3 from between Euston St.Pancras and London Bridge via Tottenham Court Road, CharingCross, and Waterloo. Maybe any name for what's new from Crossrail 3 (4, or 5 beyond something...) by where we know(?), like between New Cross (Southeastern) / New Cross Gate (Southern) and wherever in Barking (C2C) or from TCR/Euston St.Pancras into London Marylebone Stn to rejoice (Chilterns Railway).
Looks like this line is still very much needed despite being called off. Thanks for creating this portrait of it, what it could be, and what it might be if Londoners did not have to wait until they get another Queen to name it after before the line will be built.
German cities have "Hauptbahnhof" stations because they're all medium-sized cities; Berlin has 3.6 million, and no other city there has more than 1.5m. London has 10m. This station does serve the north and would have suburban trains elsewhere, but mainline services to the south and west are still elsewhere.
@@IndigoJo The funny thing is that the Hauptbahnhof is a relatively new station and Berlin used to rely on various termini spread across the city. Before that, Ostbahnhof was the most important station (and still is today, since with its many platforms and through tracks, east-west trains can easily terminate there) and even then, its advantage was that it lied on the Stadtbahn. Ever since the Tierparktunnel was built (which allowed for North-South mainline service), its significance got diminished given that there is a now better station for intercity trains. Moreover, Berlin is big enough to support four more intercity stations (i.e. aside from Ostbahnhof, there also is Spandau, Gesundbrunnen and Südkreuz), roughly matching the many termini of Paris and London except they support through service.
It would also help alleviate pressure on the West Anglia Main Line which has only two tracks despite having a lot of competing services running, e.g., to Cambridge, Hertford East, Stansted Express. It also has a lot of level crossings. There was a formal review done of this some time ago which can be found online somewhere. Just on your point about the north eastern part of the route, I seem to remember reading that Wood Green is the preferred option for Haringey Council as they say it would help with the economic regeneration of the area.
My Megastation name suggestions;- Macaroni Junction. Junction Station International Underground Terminus (descriptive). Confabulation Station (or WTF Junction). London International Museum of Tunneling, Architecture, and Maze Design. Quatermass Station (aka The Pit). The Warren (obvious). The Mapmakers Nightmare (that many lines through that small a space? Yeesh). The Ratsnest ('cause that's what it'll look like). The Magic Rail-go-round (you're never quite certain where you'll end up). "Bob". Ye Olde Tourist Confuzzulator (tourists go in, but they never leave). Grand Central Station (just to annoy the Yanks - Grand Union Station would do the job just as well).
There's no real way to increase capacity, because its in Central London, and theres no way that they could add extra tracks and/or platforms which would increase the capacity. They would have to acquire a ridiculous amount of land just to add 1 platform, and that is highly unlikely to end up happening in all likelihood.
Too many branches on the SWML, and no room to serve them properly on just 4 tracks. Even with the post-COVID reductions, and only taking off-peak services, there's 14 services that are slow (stopping at Wimbledon, and usually Earsfield) - 7 half-hourly branches (one of which further diverges). To make these metro services 4tph, you hit the limit of capacity and run into issues with so many branches merging (3 routes at Surbiton, another 2 joining New Malden, 2 more at Raynes Park) affecting reliability. There's also not room on the fasts (13tph on the COVID/DfT cuts reduced off-peak service) to move these trains over onto those tracks. So the plan was for 5/6 tracks between Wimbledon and New Malden and then 2 new tracks between Wimbledon and London (that would need to be tunnelled under Clapham Junction) to allow turn-up-and-go services and better reliability. The original plans were for CR2 to be segregated and taking 4 branches (2*2) over entirely (termini at Epsom, Chessington, Shepperton and Twickenham) and leave Waterloo with 3 (Guildford, Woking, Hampton Court) - so 12tph to Waterloo and 20tph CR2 on 4 branches (4tph Epsom, 4tph Chessington, 4tph Shepperton, 8tph Twickenham). But then there were complaints about loss of Waterloo service, so that became 16tph CR2 instead (Hampton Court replacing Twickenham on CR2, and Kingston loop replacing Hampton Court on the residual Waterloo service)
This has to happen 😔 also Jago! I know this would be a real faff but are you ever planning to do a video on the old Liverpool Overhead Railway? Elevated lines are so cool, it's such a shame it's gone
Crossrail 2 is definitely needed and construction should be started immediately if it's going to take decades to build. But never under-estimate the British politicians who consistently lack any vision when it comes to infrastructure projects. Examples include the beheading of HS 2 and the failure to link it directly to HS1 to allow through trains directly to the Continent, the failure to electrify all new lines such as the E-W route from Oxford to Cambridge and beyond (surely all main lines should have been electrified decades ago?), and the dithering over the extensions to the Bakerloo and Northern Lines in London. There are many more and all will be too late when and if they are constructed. Sad, eh?
this might just be my selfishness wanting a more convenient station for where I live, but I think adding a stop at Stoke Newington would be useful, as it would still maintain a very large stop spacing (2km from stoke newington to dalston and stoke newington to seven sisters - as opposed to the extremely large gap of 4km between dalston and seven sisters currently proposed), while also greatly improving transport links in hackney, which still has relatively poor rail links by inner london standards, adding 2 new stations rather than just the one at dalston (unless they do also build the branch to hackney central and onwards)
@06:32 In terms of redevelopment of Clapham Junction, there was something a few years back of "London Bridge-ing" the station by opening the arches below. There was a couple of other things about rejigging the Southern platforms with the local stopping Victoria services using the platforms where the West London serving Southern services currently run from. If covid didnt happen, probably would have been the next big Network Rail Sussex region upgrade after the Croydon Triangle rebuild
I entirely take the point that is pointless to discuss a route that remains theoretical, but I have always wondered if Broxbourne is the right place for Crossrail 2 to terminate. Would it be possible for the service to serve major population centres in Hertfordshire? I would have thought that not serving St Albans is a missed opportunity.
My suggestion for the new station between Euston & St Pancras would be "Northern and Continental" because that's where the main line trains it connects to go. It's not actually central (it's right on the edge of central London and is some distance from any attraction associated with central London) and it's not a Hauptbahnhof, a name applied to stations in German cities which mostly have no more than 1.5 million in population, rather than 10m as in London. Trains to the south and west (other than some suburban trains) do not call here.
One thing I'll be really happy with, is that if Euston St Pancras is a thing, every time I go to south london, I just take the west London line from Harrow to Croydon or somewhere. Because they always come every hour on the hour. When I come back, however, there aren't a lot of trains leaving from East Croydon. So my best choice is to take Thameslink to Farringdon and take the Met Line home, but normally I would take the London Northwestern trains back from Euston. But I don't really like having to go all the way to the Northern Line or Victoria line platforms, so I just walk. Problem is, Euston and King's Cross don't have an out of station interchange, so it ends up costing me double the money just for the return journey. It gets tiresome after a while.
Battle Bridge was what the area of King's Cross and Saint Pancras was know as before any railway was built. calling the new CR2 interchange that would reflect what getting it built would involve!
MegaStation Name: MegaStation or Goblin Town. And good god CR2 would be so nice. like holy guacamole the north east is so underserved to get central etc.
"Britannia" should the name for the new station. indicating the destination in all european departure boards. Also indicates the cover area of destinations for London (i.e England and Scotland)
Hopefully, with an imminent change of government, a less adversarial relationship between Westminster and City Hall will emerge, Hopefully freeing up funds to build Crossrail 2. There is an additional motive: making Crossrail the name of the mode, rather than Elizabeth Line
The prospect of Clapham Junction becoming a sort of Shibuya I actually quite like! As for Eus-Panc-Cross - my only (boring) idea is ‘London Central’. A great city should have lots of rail terminals. They should all have enchanting names and unique identities, even if it should also be easy to seamlessly navigate between them.
Hope to see a Jago Hazzard video on the opening of Crossrail2! Re station: maybe Grand Central - both as it links several grand old stations & is the HS2 terminus (the successor to the Grand Central Line)
Very Interesting. As for the idea of a very large interchange I would love to think that there would be travelators, maglev for prefence to whisk one the length of Euston Road . I fear however that it would result in just a very long walk that could just be as easily done on the 205 bus and probably quicker as well. For a suitable name, well what can you name a big black hole under London other than London Boris!
More productively, yes, Crossrail 2 would be very nice to have. There's a lot of developments that haven't happened because BR were too busy reinventing the wheel, and that sort of mentality seems to have persisted, at least to an extent. Hopefully the success of the Elizabeth line will convince the powers that be that its worth doing, perhaps after HS2 gets done (to whatever extent it ends up being done). Even the big rail projects have to wait in a queue...
I really think they should add a station at Essex Road too, to allow interchange with the Northern City line. It could take a lot of pressure off of the Northern line at Angela and King's Cross
Smooth as biscuit crumbs in a bed🤣. I suggest Euston Kings Pancras🤔. I was going to suggest St Euston Kings but it sounds gangish... so cool but gangish.
As you say, there are more and more people attempting the journey to and from central London at peak times. This does not mean that more trains are needed. What is actually required is a positive policy to reduce the numbers having to make this journey by moving jobs to other parts of the country.
While we need to encourage growth everywhere, it shouldnt be at the expense of a growing, world class city and huge revenue generator for the country. Japan has many great cities but they dont exist because the government starves tokyo!
@@kiron6753 You have missed the point. London is already too big. It was too big 50 years ago. It has been sucking the economic life out of the rest of the country since the Second World War. Whatever capital investment in transport projects you make to relieve congestion in and around London would be a waste, because making transport easier, quicker, cheaper, and more comfortable will simply generate more traffic thus negating the short-term benefits I listed. We certainly should not be considering boring yet another tunnel under central London.
I’d like the idea of the development of such a “super-hub”, or at least connective material between Kings Cross, St Pancras & Euston, to be given a three letter abbreviation, and for this to then transpire into the London vernacular once the complete hub station is open. So most people would then call it perhaps ESP, after Euston St Pancras, or even GCL, after Grand Central London - Grand Central has become the name for the shopping centre that houses Birmingham New Street station, and of course New York has Grand Central Station, so having one in London would make sense. I don’t know if any other three letters would be suitable.
Hopefully once a north-south rail connection has opened at Tottenham Court Road, along with its existing east-west connection on the Lizzy Line, people may get much more used to calling the station TCR.
Jago, I've always loved your work but your Taylor Swift exclusion comment made me sign up to Ground News immediately. So glad to know it's not just me.
I agree Euston-St Pancras should have its own name like Magenta on RER E - 'British Library' suggested in the comments is a great name. If not, 'Somers Town' - the name of the locality
The people of South West London and Surrey really must push for the Tooting Broadway option for Crossrail 2 to be brought back. St George's Hospital is the major Accident & Emergency hospital for the entire region. Having Crossrail 2 go to Tooting Broadway will literally be the difference between people being able to say goodbye to relatives that have serious accidents...and not being able to make it to the hospital on time. There should even be a second entrance build close to the hospital itself.
A tube station at Clapham Junction just doesn’t seem feasible. But perhaps just bringing the BPS spur of the Northern Line to a stop that’s just a short walk from Clapham Junction would be reasonable?
Balham is the cheaper option and is more likely to go ahead but I still think Tooting Broadway deserves something big. St George Hospital's connectivity would have improved, more development opportunities around there and most importantly Northern line trains during morning peak starts getting crowded at Tooting Broadway since it's further down south. Balham already has trains going to Victoria meaning it will be a bit redundant. But oh well where is the money, and will it ever be built and will it serve Balham. Only time will tell.
I'd think that if we were combining King's Cross, St Pancras, and Euston into a single megastation, we should really be having a discussion about calling that something like London Central or London Union. Such a station would be by far the busiest station in the country, beating out Liverpool Street by nearly 10 million annual boardings and alightings in 2023. And with that many connections I think if any station had a claim to be THE London station, it'd be that one, being able to catch trains going basically everywhere as you said.
2:15 - An interesting point is that the new Meridian Water station was built with passive provision for Crossrail 2 - space for tracks and the platforms were reserved and the pedestrian bridge is wide enough to accomodate this as well. 6:30 - The only reason holding the Northern Line back from Clapham Junction is the lack of Crossrail 2. Crossrail 2 would alleviate some of the pressure on the Northern Line, otherwise the trains would be packed at Clapham junction and unable to take on passengers at Nine Elms and Battersea Power. The alignment underneath Battersea Park is reserved and should Crossrail 2 get the go ahead, Northern Line Extension 2: Electric Boogaloo should get the go ahead.
Look at the impact crossrail 1 has had! This line is desperately needed to reduce pressure on the Victoria line and will be even more necessary by the time it could be built (mid 2030s probably)
What abt the rest of the uk ik London is important but there are multiple other city’s that are in dire need of transport improvements such as Manchester and Glasgow that are in desperate need of metro and bus improvements
If it does happen I think it's a bad idea because it'll cost billions and would be way too long. Nobody would drive that, and it's a commuter service which would be really slow...
There is a serious lack of innovation in the UK (and more generally in the Western world). I watched a documentary showing how Chinese cities like Shangai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Wuhan, Chongqing, etc. have recently developped a lot, at a super fast pace. Really impressive, in the West we look ridiculous...
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That ground news seems close to a genuinely even split of news sources across the board. I can honestly say for the first time ever, I am actually going to look at a sponsor from a UA-cam video after this. I've very curious now.
There was no mention of this lime green line carrying on from Hackney and then appearing to take over the central line Leytonstone all the way up to Epping ?!?!!
IMO the best name for that Euston-Kings'-Cross-St-Pancas-Golly-Gee-Whiz station is "Disaster", because for anyone who has to catch a train in anything less than four hours' time, that's _exactly_ what it will be.
As a Project Manager within Construction and Infrastructure with 10 years experience, Crossrail 2 is desperately needed (along with other major infrastructure investment). The U.K's ability to futureproof is awful, as no current government wants to commit to £bns in infrastructure spending for 10-20+ years in the future which has no immediate political pay-off. That's fine in the short term, but when you do get 10-20+ years down the line you suddenly have a very big problem with no easy or quick solutions, and this inevitably results in downward spiral. Look at how successful Crossrail/Elizabeth Line has been since it's opening, almost no-one remembers that it was delayed by 4 years because it's delivering such a significant benefit to the Public! Britian as a nation is crying out for long-term strategic investment in our public assets which actually benefit us in the near and far future.
This is why HS2 being started then slashed in half and then cancelled beyond Phase 1A is such a massive f u to the British public. That was going to be infrastructure for the next 120 years worth of expansion like the West and East Coast Mainlines were in the Victorian era.
Since you are a planner, let me ask you something:
Why does Crossrail 2 suggest building new tunnels for slow/stopping services relatively near to existing quad track railways, rather than building new cheaper tunnels for fast trains freeing up more capacity for slow and semi-fast suburban/regional trains on the existing quad track railways?
Sure, the core section should absolutely be built with short distances between stations and be used by suburban trains, But next to places like Clapham Jn it seems like a good idea to swap so that the trains that runs in a new central core tunnel surfaces and uses the existing railway, while the fast trains that terminate at Victoria or Waterloo dives down and runs in tunnel outside Clapham Jn. (Or for that sake swap around which is in tunnel and which is not at Clapham Jn if there are any particular benefits for one or the other).
Sure, there would be a need for emergency exits built if there are no or few stations along a long underground tunnel, but that must surely be way cheaper than building stations.
Is this just due to it being politically easier to sell the idea of new stations to the general public? IIRC I've read arguments that close by the existing Southwestern quad track main line the population density isn't that high. But that can IMHO be seen as a reason for infill development and whatnot, and the existing state can also be seen as a result of not that great frequency at the suburban stations along the route.
And HS2 north of Brum. please. Stopping there is almost pointless. Extra capacity (for freight) is needed on the WCML. As for travel across the Pennines...
I'd agree the UK is useless at future proofing, but it's more than time elsewhere got a bite of the money pie for transport.
Many fully costed plans have been thrown out because of the demand in Londoncentric attitudes in parliament and by big business.
Id argue that TfL and the Councils really ought to finance the planning stages themselves.
But what is needed is a massive overhaul of the planning and finance of large long term construction project such as Cross Rail or Leeds Trams.
Personally I'd support a plan that Central Government sponsors a set amount say 30% of any transit project, then the regional transit bodies sponsors another 40% from fares with councils giving the rest from a small levy on top of council tax much akin to what happened for the Olympics.
@@paintedpilgrim That's kind of how it works in London. London has independence in generating capital expenditure. No other part of England has that legal power and is thus almost entirely dependent on Treasury. London also has a lot of power in what happens compared to other regions.
Manchester just got control of the busses again and will take control of regional trains by the end of the decade. It's a start, but Greater Manchester and the other city regions really should have TfL and Greater London style deregualtion for infrastructure projects.
Everywhere outside of the M25 relies on Westminster, and they just aren't interested with things that far away. They aren't even interested in things within it most of the time either, they hate funding things and only do it begrudgingly because it'll benefit them in some direct way too.
It's also worth pointing out that this government hasn't done a single large project. Crossrail was put into law by the last Labour government, so was HS2. Even the Olympics was done by the last government, they just happpened to have been built (or partly built then canned) by the Tories because they were kind of obligated to.
As a homage to Judge Dredd of 2000 AD, the station should be styled simply as 'Mega Terminus One'
I was gonna say 'Mega Station One' for much the same reason.
5:11 Oh, this is the London Hauptbahnhof plan I have heard about.
Since no actual London Central Station is ever going to happen, this might be as close as we're getting to that, so that perfectly good name might as well be used for this (if it ever actually does happen).
@@ospero7681 TCR would be central, if you have a "CR3" Milton keynes to Euston/Baker street to Cannon street which branches to bermondsey or C2Ctakeover
yes! voting for London Hbf
Megastation name : Long Walk.
With Euston, King's Cross & St Pancras combined, you might as well just call it "London Central".
Except it is in NW Central London , wasnt served by Great Central (but is by Grand Central) and doesnt have the Central Line going through it. It is probably best called North Midtown
Or London Interchange
@@highpath4776 Midtown???
@@highpath4776 A "central station" doesn't have to be in the city centre. It meant it is the main and most important station.
How about; "London Camden, Euston, and St.Pancras International Cross Station"(?)
It’s a shame they pulled the plug on this one, even as planned it missed the genuine opportunity to connect other parts of London directly to Stansted Airport without having to fight to Liverpool Street, Tottenham Hale or Stratford. It could also have run 24hr for that purpose and helped to greenify/cheapify those getting to Stansted for the horrific 06:00 Ryanair flights, avoiding the £120+ minicabs to catch your £9.99 flight (+£38 carry-on, +£60 suitcase, +£12 seat reservation, +£13-78 air passenger duty… oh no I’m getting carried away).
by a 737
Doesn't Ryanair also charge for using the toilets or is that just a rumour?
6:57 the reason the northern line extension didn’t get extended to CJ was more because the northern line wouldn’t be able to handle it rather than CJ station itself. The trains would just get crush loaded right at the start, and no one would then be able to use the trains from there at all the intermediate stations
Interesting thought. However, I've often wondered why people would want to change on to the Northern Line at CJ. From SWR they could just carry on into Waterloo which is quicker and has more NL trains, and from Southern there are generally good alternative routes available from Victoria. The NL could handle the numbers changing from the Overground.
@@iankemp1131 People prefer the Tube
@@jasonhaven7170 For some journeys, not for others. For example, most people coming from the southern suburbs and further afield go into Victoria rather than change onto the Northern line at Balham. Similar things would apply to people on suburban or long distance train into Waterloo - it's quicker and more pleasant to carry on into the terminus rather than getting off at Clapham Junction and taking the tube from there (if one existed). There are exceptions; Finsbury Park is a more convenient interchange between tube and National Rail than the Kings Cross labyrinth.
I think the mega-terminal should either be called Dave, or Station McStationface.
I agree (offcource Dave is only used when you are to drunk to remember real names ;) )
Stationopolis? Stationzilla....?
Mega Station McStationface? Terminus McTurminusface? (No, I was too already thinking about those alright?)
I live in Enfield, and so frequent the Greater Anglia lines that run into Liverpool St. and Stratford a lot. It's worth mentioning that when Angel was closed down and Meridian Water was built to replace it - Meridian Water was built to Crossrail Specifications, ready for when the rest of Crossrail 2 was built. The same applies for Tottenham Hale and Northumberland Park when they were recently upgraded, they are all ready for Crossrail 2, which would reduce the time taken to build the line if and when it happens.
My vote for the Mega Station at Euston/Kings Cross/St. Pancras is "Mega Station" - I wonder if they'd be brave enough to use it!
Interesting to hear it’s not happening. London Boroughs are still charging a Community Infrastructure Levy on new developments, specifically to fund Crossrail2.
Ah the longed for Weymouth to Harlow Town link would also fit this line. ☺️
I think it should be called the Albert Line. I'm speculating that this will be the name of Prince George's first son, who it'll be posthumously named after.
I suppose though that depends on whether they are first in line. If they are first in line, George might want to go with a more regal sounding name, such as to maintain some continuity with past monarchs, and I'm not sure whether he would want a first. By all means though, if George has a daughter first and that son is the spare, it doesn't really matter.
@@Cowman9791maybe. Though we've _sort of_ had an Albert. Edward VIII was christened Albert Edward, so not unprecedented.
VII. Oops
@@Cowman9791 Perhaps Charles IV (Henry and Edward are 'already many' with George (and James in Scotland) close behind; all three Richards died untimely; Stephen and John were Bad Kings (a la 1066 and all that).
King George VI was an Albert before choosing George as his regnal name.
Crossrail (Taylor’s Version) 😛
I chuckled at the two subtitles "By London standards, don't start". Although it is only two miles away, I last travelled by train from my local station in 1980, so it is good to know that at least some metropolitan types realise the irony of building or not building Crossrail 2 for us oiks here in the Midlands.
I’ve always been invested in the chaos around Crossrail
As taxpayers, haven't we all been? 😂
Crossrail 2 or "we really really want it and need it but will probably not live to see it."
As for the Mega-station I would say either St Pancras Interchange or London Grafton, both nods to the heritage of the area
But the Grafton Arms are in Victoria
@highpath4776 The Earl of Euston is the Duke of Grafton's son or other heir. So one up from Euston in rank and importance should logically be Grafton.
@@SmudgeThomas Fitzroy Station could work too, but Grafton sounds good.
A point to add to your commentary: Just as the northern arms would free up capacity at Liverpool St (for more Greater Anglia trains) the local trains going underground at Wimbledon would free up lots of capacity in from there to Waterloo which was to be used to increase the trains coming in from Woking and beyond as there would be more platforms available at Waterloo and space on the existing lines, so Crossrail 2 would improve services in Southampton and Cambridge.
It unites multiple different lines and stations and connects them all to the rest of the continent?
European Union Station 🤩
Euston for short?
@@neilyoungman9814 ow? Wow!
@@neilyoungman9814I will never see Euston the same way now. Also, I’m totally going to spread this as a myth
Alexandra Palace was called Wood Green originally, and is reached from the main centre of Wood Green using "Station Road"
Megastation name: Holy Trinity. After the Grade 1 listed church on Euston Road opposite.
London Grand Central. And I say that as a serious rather than a facetious suggestion, as a nod to the American DNA of the Tube.
Ah, but this isn't a Tube line. Its DNA isn't that of Yerkes et al, at all
Birmingham did that.
Why 'London'? Just 'Grand Central' should do. If people don't know which city they're in, they probably shouldn't be looking to take a train...
@@paulhaynes8045 Because people will be getting the train from outside London so they need to know what city it's going to. Same reason that in airports signs say London Heathrow rather than just Heathrow
@@bluemountain4181 Well, it's just barely in London.
By the time Crossrail II happens it will probably be called the Charlotte line. As for the name for E.St.P.K.X. ? East Park Junction in North West One? "Clear as mud junction" lol. I think of E.St.P&KX as being in north London (NW1) but for most people it is quite central.
Im not a london local but from what i understand this would be amazing
Wait until we get to see Crossrail 3. Now that is a project. 😮
First time I've ever seen a reference to Upper Halliford on UA-cam, and possibly the internet! Brings back some great memories ❤️
Shepperton always got the mentions ☹️
London is missing a central station, and the city rail network is mainly connected by the Elizabeth line and Thameslink. I really like the idea of a big station connecting multiple mainlines in London to one hub. I would like it to be called "London Central".
And yet still no tfl services to the Southeast. Lol
We could name new lines with share links with. As far as HSUK Map planning was; 'Westlink' is a name from Thameslink 3 from between Euston St.Pancras and London Bridge via Tottenham Court Road, CharingCross, and Waterloo. Maybe any name for what's new from Crossrail 3 (4, or 5 beyond something...) by where we know(?), like between New Cross (Southeastern) / New Cross Gate (Southern) and wherever in Barking (C2C) or from TCR/Euston St.Pancras into London Marylebone Stn to rejoice (Chilterns Railway).
Looks like this line is still very much needed despite being called off. Thanks for creating this portrait of it, what it could be, and what it might be if Londoners did not have to wait until they get another Queen to name it after before the line will be built.
Berlin's best hub is Berlin Hauptbahnhof, so I think the mega terminus should be called London Central or just London.
German cities have "Hauptbahnhof" stations because they're all medium-sized cities; Berlin has 3.6 million, and no other city there has more than 1.5m. London has 10m. This station does serve the north and would have suburban trains elsewhere, but mainline services to the south and west are still elsewhere.
@@IndigoJo The funny thing is that the Hauptbahnhof is a relatively new station and Berlin used to rely on various termini spread across the city. Before that, Ostbahnhof was the most important station (and still is today, since with its many platforms and through tracks, east-west trains can easily terminate there) and even then, its advantage was that it lied on the Stadtbahn. Ever since the Tierparktunnel was built (which allowed for North-South mainline service), its significance got diminished given that there is a now better station for intercity trains.
Moreover, Berlin is big enough to support four more intercity stations (i.e. aside from Ostbahnhof, there also is Spandau, Gesundbrunnen and Südkreuz), roughly matching the many termini of Paris and London except they support through service.
A brilliant exposition of the current state of Crossrail 2. We can only hope.
5:48 "Big station" is what it should be called
It would also help alleviate pressure on the West Anglia Main Line which has only two tracks despite having a lot of competing services running, e.g., to Cambridge, Hertford East, Stansted Express. It also has a lot of level crossings. There was a formal review done of this some time ago which can be found online somewhere.
Just on your point about the north eastern part of the route, I seem to remember reading that Wood Green is the preferred option for Haringey Council as they say it would help with the economic regeneration of the area.
My Megastation name suggestions;-
Macaroni Junction.
Junction Station International Underground Terminus (descriptive).
Confabulation Station (or WTF Junction).
London International Museum of Tunneling, Architecture, and Maze Design.
Quatermass Station (aka The Pit).
The Warren (obvious).
The Mapmakers Nightmare (that many lines through that small a space? Yeesh).
The Ratsnest ('cause that's what it'll look like).
The Magic Rail-go-round (you're never quite certain where you'll end up).
"Bob".
Ye Olde Tourist Confuzzulator (tourists go in, but they never leave).
Grand Central Station (just to annoy the Yanks - Grand Union Station would do the job just as well).
Wow I came across the repurposed Michelin place at 6:20 just walking to the V&A. Obviously the perfect entrance station for underground trains.
A pity the line from Northumberland Pk via Wood Green to Alexandre Palace (Palace Gates) was ever decommisioned.
It would be interesting to hear why Waterloo is so capacity-limited, and what options, if any, are available to increase it.
I understand it's the narrow curved approaches to Waterloo that restrict capacity.
There's no real way to increase capacity, because its in Central London, and theres no way that they could add extra tracks and/or platforms which would increase the capacity. They would have to acquire a ridiculous amount of land just to add 1 platform, and that is highly unlikely to end up happening in all likelihood.
Too many branches on the SWML, and no room to serve them properly on just 4 tracks. Even with the post-COVID reductions, and only taking off-peak services, there's 14 services that are slow (stopping at Wimbledon, and usually Earsfield) - 7 half-hourly branches (one of which further diverges). To make these metro services 4tph, you hit the limit of capacity and run into issues with so many branches merging (3 routes at Surbiton, another 2 joining New Malden, 2 more at Raynes Park) affecting reliability. There's also not room on the fasts (13tph on the COVID/DfT cuts reduced off-peak service) to move these trains over onto those tracks.
So the plan was for 5/6 tracks between Wimbledon and New Malden and then 2 new tracks between Wimbledon and London (that would need to be tunnelled under Clapham Junction) to allow turn-up-and-go services and better reliability. The original plans were for CR2 to be segregated and taking 4 branches (2*2) over entirely (termini at Epsom, Chessington, Shepperton and Twickenham) and leave Waterloo with 3 (Guildford, Woking, Hampton Court) - so 12tph to Waterloo and 20tph CR2 on 4 branches (4tph Epsom, 4tph Chessington, 4tph Shepperton, 8tph Twickenham). But then there were complaints about loss of Waterloo service, so that became 16tph CR2 instead (Hampton Court replacing Twickenham on CR2, and Kingston loop replacing Hampton Court on the residual Waterloo service)
This has to happen 😔 also Jago! I know this would be a real faff but are you ever planning to do a video on the old Liverpool Overhead Railway? Elevated lines are so cool, it's such a shame it's gone
Most informative, Jago! Eustpkingx Central doesn't exactly roll off the tongue I guess... Can't argue with a Swift newsfeed blockage... Cherrio!
A megastation of that caliber feels like it deserves a Grand Central name.
Sooooo lovely that it can connect to the continent - would that include the incontinent as well though?
I'm quite surprised the North Sheen-Mortlake-Barnes-Putney-Wandsworth Town section is not gonna be included in Crossrail 2 if it gets built
This project would be outstanding
Crossrail 2 is definitely needed and construction should be started immediately if it's going to take decades to build. But never under-estimate the British politicians who consistently lack any vision when it comes to infrastructure projects. Examples include the beheading of HS 2 and the failure to link it directly to HS1 to allow through trains directly to the Continent, the failure to electrify all new lines such as the E-W route from Oxford to Cambridge and beyond (surely all main lines should have been electrified decades ago?), and the dithering over the extensions to the Bakerloo and Northern Lines in London. There are many more and all will be too late when and if they are constructed. Sad, eh?
Euston St Pancras could mean you could also get from Edgware to Bagneux (Paris Metro Line 4) with only having to change twice!
this might just be my selfishness wanting a more convenient station for where I live, but I think adding a stop at Stoke Newington would be useful, as it would still maintain a very large stop spacing (2km from stoke newington to dalston and stoke newington to seven sisters - as opposed to the extremely large gap of 4km between dalston and seven sisters currently proposed), while also greatly improving transport links in hackney, which still has relatively poor rail links by inner london standards, adding 2 new stations rather than just the one at dalston (unless they do also build the branch to hackney central and onwards)
@06:32 In terms of redevelopment of Clapham Junction, there was something a few years back of "London Bridge-ing" the station by opening the arches below. There was a couple of other things about rejigging the Southern platforms with the local stopping Victoria services using the platforms where the West London serving Southern services currently run from.
If covid didnt happen, probably would have been the next big Network Rail Sussex region upgrade after the Croydon Triangle rebuild
I entirely take the point that is pointless to discuss a route that remains theoretical, but I have always wondered if Broxbourne is the right place for Crossrail 2 to terminate. Would it be possible for the service to serve major population centres in Hertfordshire? I would have thought that not serving St Albans is a missed opportunity.
The Swifties will be coming for Jago!
I'd love to see that Venn diagram of Swifties in to Jago based shenanigans.
My suggestion for the new station between Euston & St Pancras would be "Northern and Continental" because that's where the main line trains it connects to go. It's not actually central (it's right on the edge of central London and is some distance from any attraction associated with central London) and it's not a Hauptbahnhof, a name applied to stations in German cities which mostly have no more than 1.5 million in population, rather than 10m as in London. Trains to the south and west (other than some suburban trains) do not call here.
One thing I'll be really happy with, is that if Euston St Pancras is a thing, every time I go to south london, I just take the west London line from Harrow to Croydon or somewhere. Because they always come every hour on the hour. When I come back, however, there aren't a lot of trains leaving from East Croydon. So my best choice is to take Thameslink to Farringdon and take the Met Line home, but normally I would take the London Northwestern trains back from Euston. But I don't really like having to go all the way to the Northern Line or Victoria line platforms, so I just walk. Problem is, Euston and King's Cross don't have an out of station interchange, so it ends up costing me double the money just for the return journey. It gets tiresome after a while.
Battle Bridge was what the area of King's Cross and Saint Pancras was know as before any railway was built. calling the new CR2 interchange that would reflect what getting it built would involve!
MegaStation Name: MegaStation or Goblin Town.
And good god CR2 would be so nice. like holy guacamole the north east is so underserved to get central etc.
5:50 London North Station. Echos the Gare du Nord in Paris.
In honor of Douglas Adams, call the mega station: “Milliways”, and there should be a restaurant in it called “The End of the Universe”!
Good one jago 👍
"Britannia" should the name for the new station. indicating the destination in all european departure boards. Also indicates the cover area of destinations for London (i.e England and Scotland)
Hopefully, with an imminent change of government, a less adversarial relationship between Westminster and City Hall will emerge, Hopefully freeing up funds to build Crossrail 2. There is an additional motive: making Crossrail the name of the mode, rather than Elizabeth Line
The prospect of Clapham Junction becoming a sort of Shibuya I actually quite like! As for Eus-Panc-Cross - my only (boring) idea is ‘London Central’.
A great city should have lots of rail terminals. They should all have enchanting names and unique identities, even if it should also be easy to seamlessly navigate between them.
Hope to see a Jago Hazzard video on the opening of Crossrail2! Re station: maybe Grand Central - both as it links several grand old stations & is the HS2 terminus (the successor to the Grand Central Line)
Very Interesting. As for the idea of a very large interchange I would love to think that there would be travelators, maglev for prefence to whisk one the length of Euston Road . I fear however that it would result in just a very long walk that could just be as easily done on the 205 bus and probably quicker as well. For a suitable name, well what can you name a big black hole under London other than London Boris!
More productively, yes, Crossrail 2 would be very nice to have. There's a lot of developments that haven't happened because BR were too busy reinventing the wheel, and that sort of mentality seems to have persisted, at least to an extent. Hopefully the success of the Elizabeth line will convince the powers that be that its worth doing, perhaps after HS2 gets done (to whatever extent it ends up being done).
Even the big rail projects have to wait in a queue...
I really think they should add a station at Essex Road too, to allow interchange with the Northern City line. It could take a lot of pressure off of the Northern line at Angela and King's Cross
Perhaps in a decade or so there will be purple trains under Chelsea. Brilliant!
Smooth as biscuit crumbs in a bed🤣. I suggest Euston Kings Pancras🤔. I was going to suggest St Euston Kings but it sounds gangish... so cool but gangish.
Thanks!
And thank you!
As you say, there are more and more people attempting the journey to and from central London at peak times. This does not mean that more trains are needed. What is actually required is a positive policy to reduce the numbers having to make this journey by moving jobs to other parts of the country.
While we need to encourage growth everywhere, it shouldnt be at the expense of a growing, world class city and huge revenue generator for the country. Japan has many great cities but they dont exist because the government starves tokyo!
@@kiron6753 You have missed the point. London is already too big. It was too big 50 years ago. It has been sucking the economic life out of the rest of the country since the Second World War. Whatever capital investment in transport projects you make to relieve congestion in and around London would be a waste, because making transport easier, quicker, cheaper, and more comfortable will simply generate more traffic thus negating the short-term benefits I listed. We certainly should not be considering boring yet another tunnel under central London.
I’d like the idea of the development of such a “super-hub”, or at least connective material between Kings Cross, St Pancras & Euston, to be given a three letter abbreviation, and for this to then transpire into the London vernacular once the complete hub station is open. So most people would then call it perhaps ESP, after Euston St Pancras, or even GCL, after Grand Central London - Grand Central has become the name for the shopping centre that houses Birmingham New Street station, and of course New York has Grand Central Station, so having one in London would make sense.
I don’t know if any other three letters would be suitable.
Hopefully once a north-south rail connection has opened at Tottenham Court Road, along with its existing east-west connection on the Lizzy Line, people may get much more used to calling the station TCR.
Jago, I've always loved your work but your Taylor Swift exclusion comment made me sign up to Ground News immediately. So glad to know it's not just me.
Serious suggestion for MegaStation: Somers Town
Unserious suggestuon for MegaStation: Colin
Combining those 3 Major termini with so many connection options I would think 'London Central' would be appropriate?
I agree Euston-St Pancras should have its own name like Magenta on RER E - 'British Library' suggested in the comments is a great name. If not, 'Somers Town' - the name of the locality
I think the combined mega station should be known as Camden Hauptbahnhof
It should of course be named "Station Mcstationface" !!! :)
Londinium or Lundenwic for the station name
The people of South West London and Surrey really must push for the Tooting Broadway option for Crossrail 2 to be brought back. St George's Hospital is the major Accident & Emergency hospital for the entire region. Having Crossrail 2 go to Tooting Broadway will literally be the difference between people being able to say goodbye to relatives that have serious accidents...and not being able to make it to the hospital on time.
There should even be a second entrance build close to the hospital itself.
Euston St Pancras should be called "London Hauptbahnhof"
A tube station at Clapham Junction just doesn’t seem feasible. But perhaps just bringing the BPS spur of the Northern Line to a stop that’s just a short walk from Clapham Junction would be reasonable?
I think the mega terminus should be London Main Station then. Like Hauptbahnhof
The mega interchange should be called Somers Town
6:42 my understanding of the Northern proposal was that the line, at present, does not have the capacity to absorb new passengers into Zone 1.
My suggestion for the proposed mega-terminal is 'Pandemonium', in that it would be both the capital of Hell and a place of wild disorder and uproar.
Mega-station name idea: North-Central, since Euston, Kings X & St. Pancras are in North Central London
Balham is the cheaper option and is more likely to go ahead but I still think Tooting Broadway deserves something big. St George Hospital's connectivity would have improved, more development opportunities around there and most importantly Northern line trains during morning peak starts getting crowded at Tooting Broadway since it's further down south. Balham already has trains going to Victoria meaning it will be a bit redundant. But oh well where is the money, and will it ever be built and will it serve Balham. Only time will tell.
It would be called Jago Junction.
So you Ja-go to anywhere you like.
I'd think that if we were combining King's Cross, St Pancras, and Euston into a single megastation, we should really be having a discussion about calling that something like London Central or London Union. Such a station would be by far the busiest station in the country, beating out Liverpool Street by nearly 10 million annual boardings and alightings in 2023. And with that many connections I think if any station had a claim to be THE London station, it'd be that one, being able to catch trains going basically everywhere as you said.
2:15 - An interesting point is that the new Meridian Water station was built with passive provision for Crossrail 2 - space for tracks and the platforms were reserved and the pedestrian bridge is wide enough to accomodate this as well.
6:30 - The only reason holding the Northern Line back from Clapham Junction is the lack of Crossrail 2. Crossrail 2 would alleviate some of the pressure on the Northern Line, otherwise the trains would be packed at Clapham junction and unable to take on passengers at Nine Elms and Battersea Power. The alignment underneath Battersea Park is reserved and should Crossrail 2 get the go ahead, Northern Line Extension 2: Electric Boogaloo should get the go ahead.
Euston St Pancras alternate name:
London Central (for Euston Kings Cross and St Pancras)
Run HS1 through the Camden Link to HS2, and use CR2 to shuttle south.
Spiffing Station! Very English and fun to say. Hypothetically it could be apt as well.😁
Look at the impact crossrail 1 has had! This line is desperately needed to reduce pressure on the Victoria line and will be even more necessary by the time it could be built (mid 2030s probably)
What abt the rest of the uk ik London is important but there are multiple other city’s that are in dire need of transport improvements such as Manchester and Glasgow that are in desperate need of metro and bus improvements
Since the original Crossrail was named the Elizabeth Line, I suppose Crossrail 2 could be named the Charles Line. The royal, not Yerkes.
4:50 Underground News immediately after Ground News… I see what you did there.
If it does happen I think it's a bad idea because it'll cost billions and would be way too long. Nobody would drive that, and it's a commuter service which would be really slow...
the megastation should of course be called Labyrinthian
It's back on
I'm on the Shepperton line and it would be helpful to have cr2
A name for the mega terminal at Euston, St Pancras..... How about Complicated?
Crossrail 2 is probably gonna be double the money than the Lizzy Line
There is a serious lack of innovation in the UK (and more generally in the Western world). I watched a documentary showing how Chinese cities like Shangai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Wuhan, Chongqing, etc. have recently developped a lot, at a super fast pace. Really impressive, in the West we look ridiculous...