Is This Moor Cursed?
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Five tales of human tragedy on this very scenic 9 mile hike on the moors above Manchester, in the northernmost reaches of the Peak District.
A nearly 200 year old unsolved murder at Bill O' Jacks; an accidental shooting (Ashway Cross); one of the UK's worst fatal avalanches; a mystery man - unidentified for 13 months - and a 1949 plane crash with 21 fatalities.
Something a bit different than our normal "content". It's just a one-off!
#manchester #billojacks #ashwaycross #avalanche #davidlytton #mysteryman #planecrash #dovestones #saddleworth #saddleworthmoor #peakdistrict
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WC21 (UK) Productions Ltd theme tune: Keygenerator - Freesound
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Main “Broadcaster”: Darren Spratt
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Thanks for this one, Darren. I’m a descendant of the Bradburys on my mam’s mam’s side. This story was passed on to me in the oral tradition by my gran. I remember being taken up to the site and to the graves of my ancestors up from Tameside. I appreciate your no nonsense approach. Most of my family history on both sides is from up there. Cheers from Canada.
Oh wow, that’s incredible to hear from an actual relative. Were there any ideas in the family as to who committed this awful crime?
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd My gran felt it had something to do with Tom’s role as a gamekeeper. It’s all speculative, however she did feel the navvies were being scapegoated. The other possibility was Reuben Platt. I think William is my gggg grandad.
@nikbennett4894 that’s really interesting. In one article I read it mentioned that Tom was not popular. We’ll never know, but a real privilege to speak to you about this. Thank you.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Cheers! Keep up the good work. Glad I found your channel.
Hi Darren. What a fabulous landscape. Thank you for taking us along with you and for your intriguing story telling. Definitely not a moor to spend the night in. Cursed and Spooky! 👏👏👍😀
Thank you Andrew! Strangely, I don’t think I’ve seen any of the UA-cam wildcampers up there!
I’m glad I managed to convey the beauty of this place. I assume - maybe wrongly - that a lot of people just associate it with you know what.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtdI do hope you repeat this format again.
A trip down memory lane. I was at Uni. in Salford and spent a fair amount of time on the moors. Thanks a lot.
Thank you and glad it brought back memories for you. I think it’s a fabulous area of stunning countryside.
A very poignant and thought provoking video, and for what it's worth I think you got the tone just right.
The landscape is beautiful, and you did a fantastic job of capturing it as always.
I very much enjoyed that segment with the fake rain and the ominous lighting!
I am reminded of a line from the Hound of the Baskervilles where Conan Doyle says something to the effect that there is far more menace and/or misery lurking in the (supposedly idyllic) countryside than in the cities. Probably he was just saying that for dramatic effect and to set the scene, but places like Saddleworth Moor do, sadly, lend some credibility to that argument.
Rationally I assume underpinning this concentration of tragedy is simply the fact it's an area of open countryside close to a densely populated city. So it is both a place many people will go with good intentions (but some tiny minority thereof will meet with a tragic accident), and, alas, is also a natural draw for misdeeds where the perpetrators want to go unnoticed.
Thank you Tweedy - I very much appreciate your feedback. I was a bit worried that this might be considered a misjudgment, but I’m passionate about the beauty of this amazing landscape and assume - maybe wrongly - that a lot of people associate it with you know what.
The fact there are these other, less well known, tragedies I thought was interesting enough to share.
The sequence you enjoyed was very much based on some of the other videos I watched on UA-cam! The Bill O’ Jacks story has really encouraged some to go to town with the stock footage and effects!!
You are of course right, the proximity to large conurbations does explain a lot, and the avalanche and plane crash, are down to the terrain. I could probably make about 50 videos on the plane crashes in the Dark Peak. I’m not going to do that, by the way!
Thanks again and I’m sure we’ll be on more familiar ground again next week!
Been musing on your comment about the Hound of the Baskerville's as I picked the book up again after seeing Sam's video from last Sunday and just finished re-reading it yesterday. Some of the landscape on Saddle worth is not dissimilar to Dartmoor. There is an online text from Guttenberg and I think the text that you refer to is this one perhaps?
I tell you, Watson, this time we have got a foeman who is worthy of our steel. I’ve been checkmated in London. I can only wish you better luck in Devonshire. But I’m not easy in my mind about it.”
“About what?”
“About sending you. It’s an ugly business, Watson, an ugly dangerous business, and the more I see of it the less I like it. Yes, my dear fellow, you may laugh, but I give you my word that I shall be very glad to have you back safe and sound in Baker Street once more.
I enjoyed this video, if ‘enjoyed’ is the right word. This is all history so why not? I used to tramp around the Peak District for many years so I really enjoyed following your walk which I can no longer do. Camera work was fine for the subject and, as always, your narrative was first class. Respect for not ‘exploiting’ the other sickening tragedy that occurred there🙏
Thanks Graham - it’s a glorious area, I think. I find it fascinating there’s been so much tragedy there, but I guess we’re a small country and the terrain explains 2 of the stories. I was worried about the association with the Moors murders and there was no way I was going to cover that. Hopefully I’ve shown that it’s worth a visit.
I’m pleased you never mentioned the OTHER creepy murders from that area. They are too horrible to even think about.
Thanks Jane. There was never any question of that. I think I wanted to show how beautiful it is, along with the surprising number of other, far less well known, tragedies that have occurred there.
An excellent presentation, absolutely love the location, very similar to the North Yorkshire Moors where I have spent many walking and camping trips. My first expedition to Farndale Valley with my school in 1970, inspiring me to continue with my mates each year in the Hutton Le Hole area. All of us drawn by the barren and remote yet beautiful countryside, seeing your video takes me back to great times. Thanks for an absorbing set of stories.
Thank you Phil! It is a very beautiful area and so surprising, being close to large conurbations.
I have a few videos planned that will take me out to the North Yorkshire Moors. Looking forward to exploring some of the antiquities there.
For what it’s worth … I think you got the tone spot on. Another great (and respectful) video 👍
Thank you so much, Giles. I really wanted to show how beautiful this area is, plus tell these less well known stories, without venturing into the obvious.
I’ve been up in South Lakes to catch the rare days of sunshine, a place of no internet so only just seen your vid. Wow, l didn’t realise just how spectacular the moor is. Thanks for showing us this wonderful jewel of the north. Rest in peace to all souls who have died there.
Thanks Jennifer - wasn’t it stunning? I was intrigued to see what feedback it would get and it’s been great. I’m glad I went back! Hope you’ve enjoyed the South Lakes - we were on the coast near Black Combe on Sunday - the weather was fantastic.
Well that was absolutely splendid. Beautiful scenery, lots of information and fascinating (albeit very sad tales). I feel you set the tone perfectly and with kind respect. Tragedies have and will continue to happen, it's surely better the victims of such are remembered rather than be lost to time. That said, number 6 quite rightly did not require a mention as it's an event that's deeply set in the national psyche, it will never be forgotten.
Thanks Phil - I thought this was worth doing to show how beautiful the area is and to tell those other tales, but I was concerned about the association with story 6. Really encouraging to hear that you enjoyed it. Thank you.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd I was relieved to see you decided against leaping the Trinnacle. I can't help thinking somehow that it crossed your mind for a moment as being a good shot for an up and coming UA-camr star🤣.
Enjoyed this a lot. I like folklore, the 'moor' macabre the better (boom, boom!) ... love the groovy music too
Thanks Martin! It really is quite extraordinary how much bad stuff has happened in this stunningly beautiful area. Glad you enjoyed it, including our offbeat musical selections!
I really enjoyed this one Darren. I've walked a similar route but not been to the Trinicles as the weather wasn't conducive. It is a beautiful hike. I only knew about two of your stories and can relate to every spot. As for the location story not told. I think you are right not to tell it. They don't deserve to be remembered for their horrific crimes. When I hiked up there on the Ethel Challenge I had no idea the name of the area as the Saddleworth bit is on the other side of the hill on the OS Map 🙄. I know, I didn't think outside the box. But a great hike and video. I really enjoyed the format, the filming, the stories and I hope you will cover more in the future. My video is out this afternoon and if you don't want to watch it can you skip to near the end as I have a question requiring WC21 expertise. Thanks for sharing Darren.
Thanks Chris - I loved returning to the area - it was even more stunning than I remember! I will check out your video tonight - sunbathing on a beach in Cumbria today, would you believe!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Sunbathing and Cumbria sounds like an oxymoron. Remember your factor 50. Enjoy.
Not being a whippersnapper too I found this video eminently watchable, nice one! I remember the winter of 63, we lived in RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire at that time. I also remember the story of David Lytton. This walk had me feeling for you. I remember when crossing streams and rivers was so easy as was hiking. Things change, the body ages, now I worry about crossing on stepping stones etc. I had two scares in recent years, the last one resulted in an emergency hospital visit and the implantation of a stent. We still hike but take (a few) less risks now. Keep making the videos, I love them, but please take care too.
Thank you very much.
Over the last year or so, I’ve become really nervous about crossing becks like this one. I think it might be time to give in and get some walking poles! Like you, I don’t like stepping stones now, either.
Glad you enjoyed the video - it was great to revisit this area. I expect you’ll see me with some walking poles soon!
Walking poles are also great for crossing rivers and streams. Although a mountain rescue might be an interesting video!
@@lynettecockburn332 do you know, I came back from this with a resolve to get some!
Thanks! Excellent narrative, “camera” work, and locations! Much appreciated. Lived in London (1970’s) and Aberdeen (1980’s) and have some familiarity with countryside surrounding those areas, but northern England is completely unknown to me, which is my loss. Have to correct that. American subscriber living in San Diego. Anyway, please keep up the great work🎉
Thank you kindly, once again. I really appreciate the feedback you give and I’m glad the videos are promoting northern England to you - it has the most fabulous countryside!
Subscriber from New Hampshire, USA here. I love history of most eras so this was a fun one. I'd be pleased to see you make more videos like this, sprinkled among your usual offerings. You narration is top notch!
Thank you so much - really appreciate the encouragement - it’s a bit of a leap into the unknown with this one and all the “UA-cam experts” say you must stick to your niche! I think it should be OK to cover stuff from more recent times, once in a while! Thank you.
Interesting video as usual. Glad you didn’t dwell on Saddleworth Moors 1960s notoriety.
Thank you! Yes, hopefully I’ve shown there’s more to this area than that awful association. A really beautiful place.
What a beautiful wild landscape and so close to major metropolitan area. Good job on hiking up the rocky stream and avoiding footage of other hikers!
Oh thank you - I’m glad I managed to convey how wild and beautiful it is there. I’m really glad I decided to revisit this route!
Great stuff, thanks! I think this format blends in well with the ancient history work. Don't hesitate to do similar things again, is what I say!
Cheers Matt! Just off to get some wine and will be watching your new video later!
Filming fine. Clickbait title inspired. #6 appropriately avoided.
“Sorry about my rustling in the wind” - I do hope that this will become a Tweedy-esque catchphrase.
Cheers Barry and request noted! Stay tuned!
Beautiful landscape and typical British walking weather. Really interesting but sad area to walk in. I don't believe in curses but do believe in bad weather and difficult terrain. And then your area popped up and I wondered....
Excellent video
Thank you Lynette - I really enjoyed revisiting this walk. A really beautiful area and yes, the terrain explains two of those tragedies, at least.
What a climb up to the Trinical rocks! The view was absolutely fantastic. The drone shots were brilliant. You have a great way of telling the stories. I REALLY like the cravat look… tres bohemian!
Thanks Jane - glad I managed to capture something of the beauty of the place! Would you jump across those rocks? No way was I going to try!
I enjoyed that, it was a good choice not to mention the most infamous tale from the landscape.
Thanks Gary - hopefully, in my own small way, I’ve shown that there’s more to this beautiful and fascinating landscape than that awful event. Thank you for watching!
Thank you, that was fascinating. I loved the scenery and the gopro was fine. I am of an age to know where you were and appreciate your sensitivity. It is amazingly wild considering how close it is to Manchester. Thank you again
Cheers Chris. I agree, the wildness is staggering when you consider what’s down the road. Glad you enjoyed the video.
West Riding of Yorkshire. I knew where you were when you showed Chew Reservoir on the OS Map. I'd planned a walk from Dovestones. Unfortunately, when I got to Dovestones, you'd have thought it was the M25 on a Friday teatime. Absolutely nowhere to park and nose to tail traffic. 😢❤😢
Oh that’s disappointing. I used the other car park a bit up the road and it was fine, but as you saw in the video, the weather wasn’t so great that day. Funnily enough, had to change plans today due to 2 car parks being rammed. It’s always a risk when the sun comes out at last.
I hope you can get back there soon - such an enjoyable hike.
Brilliant video
Very poignant.
A very respectful tone.
It’s easy to perceive remote places as gentle, soothing places. As oasis of tranquility and calm. Especially in the UK/England.
They are actually wilderness and can ‘effect people’. Close to where I live terrible events once happened on 2nd June. A beautiful Summer day in a beautiful location.
Once a friend and I foolishly attempted to camp on the North York Moors and as we set off pondered a number of memorials to people who had ‘come a cropper’. We lived; but gained an understanding of not being complacent after a freezing and snowy night!
I really liked the tone and atmosphere of this video. Interesting human stories well told.
A beautiful place, you conveyed the dark beauty of the place.
Thank you, Jimmy. I hesitated about making this, but felt that the stunning landscape, combined with the coincidence of these extraordinary tragedies, could be conveyed in an interesting and sensitive way. Thankfully, going by all the feedback, I managed to achieve that.
As you rightly say, these places are wild, and with that comes danger.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd you got it very right.
Loving these story videos, you should do more fella 👍
Thank you Wayne! Glad you enjoyed it - I was a bit worried about the association with the famous story linked to this area, but hopefully I managed that respectfully.
As a colonial, I can grasp both the UK and US term of "shelter"; it's not always replete with a roof and closing door; sometimes, all it means is a place out of the wind. (Which can be good enough, as you noted while filming.)
Interesting tales and I'll chime in that an area can be labeled as "cursed" without invoking the 3 witches of Macbeth...
Still enjoying the content and a thumbs-up -- ancient or not. Cheers from a colonial in the Willamette Valley, Oregon
Thank you! I do get why that chap was so derisory of our "shelters" - they're typically roofless and afford only a degree of shelter from the wind!
Hi Darren, Some sad stories to relate there, I'm glad you didn't do anything on the 6th.
Is it cursed? well of course it isn't, it's just had a bit of bad luck over the years.
Enjoyed seeing you climb the waterfall gully it's definitely easier to climb these than descend I think. The views from the top were spectacular. I remember seeing Martin Zero going through an inverted sypon tunnel, not sure if it's on this valley it looked very similar.
The camera work was fine, I watch mainly on my phone and it was great, maybe on a large TV screen it may not be as good, I'll have to give it a go, if I can wrestle the "mando" (remote) from my wife, not sure if UA-cam will do subtitles in other languages, sometimes it does.
Strangely enough I did a broadly similar walk yesterday on a route I'd never done before over the gorge on our river, known as "Los Cahorros de Monachil" the return trip takes you through a narrow gorge with sheer cliffs 3 or 4 hundred feet, the outboard route takes you over the top couldn't see anyway to get to the cliff edge which is just as well.
I was expecting to see you don your tweed shorts, did you have them packed just in case?
Very enjoyable to watch, well done, all the best!!
Thanks David, I did pack the shorts, but I decided to go with the waterproofs - turned out I didn’t really need them.
Glad it looked OK - I do have a thing about just using the GoPro. I watched it on the TV and it looked fine to me.
There was never any chance I was going to do story 6, I think I wanted to illustrate there’s more to the area than that. I was fascinated years ago when I discovered there were all these other tales.
Writing this on a baking hot beach in Cumbria. British weather!
Really enjoyed this. I live very near and often walk and wild camp on the tops. I didn’t know of some of these stories you’ve mentioned.
I did a vlog recently on this very same route.
Subscribed and will have a watch of your other videos.
Thanks
Wayne 👍
Thank you and full respect for wild camping up there! Welcome and thank you for subscribing - I hope you like the “content”!
My old play ground as a kid in the 50s and 60s I knew them Moors like the back of my hands living overseas I have forgotten how beautiful they where but dangerous if you didn't know them .
That’s great - thank you. I hadn’t been since 2016 and I’d forgotten how stunning it is. Glad it brought back memories for you.
Interesting the victims intuition told him straight away there was something off about the strangers asking directions. Nice countryside! 🇬🇧 🇳🇿
Thank you. Somewhat fantastically, we have a descendant of the victims who has watched and commented. She has indicated that the tale has come down the family with the view that the strangers/navies were scape-goats. They think it was possibly linked to Tom’s job as a gamekeeper.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd an interesting theory. I understand a gamekeeper would sometimes have to make decisions that upset people. Poaching back in those days would have been a fairly serious offence
Another thoroughly interesting and stimulating film. Well shot and edited and good to see you making use of the UA-cam special effects department on this one. I thought the tone was spot-on...respectful and thought-provoking.
Just a thought, and not sure if it's possible (or even wise, as it might cause hordes 😉 of your followers to follow in your footsteps) but might you be able to have a link to a GPX of the OS map route you take on these investigative forays?
Thank you very much - so glad you enjoyed it.
That’s a really good suggestion - I must work out how to do that. I’d love to help others explore these routes.
Kudos for not doing the obvious. Beautiful video images
Cheers very much!
Very interesting to find this video, I've just been telling my fiance I want to do this walk! Now we've got a lot of interesting things to talk about while we're on it :)
Oh thank you Jamie - that’s really nice to hear. I hope you and your fiancee have a great walk - it’s a stunning area. Hopefully she enjoys stories like these!
Fantastic....a route i know very well, but am ashamed to say i only know of 2 of the stories...i must try harder.
Cheers Steve - I really enjoyed doing this walk again - it’s a fantastic landscape isn’t it!
very fascinating.
Thank you!
Wot no curse - not even any Romans! Thank you, I really enjoyed the video. I would just cover whatever you find interesting if I were you - I’m sure others would like it and, if not, no harm done
Thank you and glad you enjoyed it! This slightly different video seems to have done OK, so I’m encouraged to be able to do a few more like this!
Strewth, your fitness is well in advance of mine. A Pakistani man with an English name where the police suspect deadly sabotage. There has got to be more on that man’s story.. I have all athe Le Carre books so I am very much interested. It is a character flaw if mine to be fascinated both by evil and criminality. Good video!
Thank you!
I don’t feel fit enough right now, but managed OK, despite a bad back and about a stone too much timber!
Yes, the David Lytton case has fascinated me since I first heard about it on the news. It seems incredible in this day and age that it took 13 months to identify him.
He was English, but had been living in Pakistan. To this day they don’t know why he suddenly flew back and climbed up onto a moor in northern England - to apparently poison himself? But he did buy a return ticket? It does smack of a Le Carre novel, I agree!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd These days if you are coming from the sub-continent without leave to remain you would have to show a return ticket or they wouldn’t let you in. I’d be interested to know if he retained his British nationality. Smacks of intrique. Has anyone done a book or podcast on it?
@@AllotmentFox I didn’t know that. Not sure if he had a return ticket to Pakistan, but he had one for London - suggesting he didn’t intend to die on the mountain? I’ll have a look to see if there are any books.
Incidentally, I only found out about the 1949 plane crash because of the David Lytton mystery. The police did say at the the time they were trying to track down the survivors of that to see if he was one of them.
I believe they also pursued lines of enquiry to determine if he was in anyway linked to the infamous Moors murders.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Ah 1949, there were British people who stayed behind at partition.
It'd be fun if you do a north Yorkshire moors ramble ..incorporating ancient history ...Goathland en route down to Whitby, the 198 steps and the Dracula reference ect ...I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Very good - I see what you did there!
You Tube is eating my comments again, sorry.
@@philcollinson328 no worries - it does it all the time, for some reason!
Why do tragic things always seem to happen in beautiful locations eh!
I know! I guess two of the stories - the avalanche and the plane crash - are directly attributable to the terrain, but the others…?
Fantastic that a descendant of the Bradburys from the Bill O’ Jacks murder, has watched and commented on this video. That’s an example of how amazing UA-cam can be!
Curious why the Ashway Cross is a Celtic Cross design? Not what I'd expect for a Victorian Industrialist.
Yes it is odd. A very striking Celtic style design, I thought. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I made and then deleted a comment about the Bleaklow Bomber and whether you had ever considered doing a video about that. But after finishing the video I get the impression you might not want to. And as to your reference to another tragic situation you didn’t want to mention, I think I know what that is. A pair of nasty individuals about whom the less said the better. I agree with your decision there.
Thanks Jim. I might do that Bleaklow bomber one day - it’s not really my territory, but I do love the scenery of the Dark Peak so much.
With this video, I wanted to show the beauty of Saddleworth Moor, and tell these, not so well known stories, whilst avoiding the one that everyone knows.
I could probably make 50 stories about the plane crashes on these moors. It’s incredible how many there were up there.
I was left feeling Mr WC21 respectfully left certain aspects of this vid out for decency, and I thank him ...But for non UK followers who may not know or understand ..Saddleworth moor is infamous, Google the horrible Moors Murderers. It's not a famous case outside of the UK....but is awful.
Absolutely. I wasn’t going to go there. There’s more than enough of that on UA-cam for those who want to see it.
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Indeed sir.
Your phone does an amazing job..but your Gopro also works well. James Platt was apparently described as a member of 'the Radical' members of MP's in parliament. No wonder the Mayor of Oldham shot him 🤣
That explains it, then!
Yes, the GoPro is the best camera for these outings, with the phone closing the gap on those zoom shots. iPhones are good cameras now - especially if used with a gimbal - that’s how I started. My main camera nowadays is the DJI Pocket 3 - a really versatile gadget!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtd Given
your marvelous shots and filming I expect the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 Gimbal Camera is the best on the market.
I’m very pleased with it. I had the Pocket 2 previously and that had some issues - they’ve really sorted those out with the 3.
Obliquely is there any Roman links or history related to Saddleworth Moor
Hi Joe, not much Roman specifically in that area, but they built roads over the moors. I’ve recently received a tip off about some rock art up there that I need to check out!
@@WC21UKProductionsLtdCastleford marching camp's near there check it out.👍
sensitively done.
Could live without the music though, but it maybe just me.
Thanks Keith.
The idea with the music is that it’s hopelessly inappropriate and dated. A bit of a running theme!
I need the music...I'm certain it's just you Keith ...🤣...PS...don't complain about the music or Mr WC21 will 'Sing, sing, sing!...He's an antiquarian and he's OK, he sleeps all night and he films all day.'