The "color case hardening" on all Italian clones is an acid wash, not actual case hardening. Also, the three click hammer is because of a safety feature that Uberti uses inside the hammer. The change was made some years ago from four to three clicks.
Considering my childhood, I should be shooting nothing but 1873 Colts and Winchesters. But those firearms got away from me too long ago. So, I will continue to watch and enjoy you doing it!
Nice pistols 👍the fact that you like lever action rifles is why I like your channel, I just wish the prices would return to pre covid it almost makes me sick to my stomach when I checked the price of a Marlin 336 made by Ruger unbelievable how they tripled the price .
Just keep in mind that both Taylor's and Cimarron use Uberti and Pietta as manufacturers, so when you're researching a specific model, you might want to check who makes it. If you're a stickler for details like me, I mean. Uberti is my preferred manufacturer for quality, but Pietta is the only one that does more authentic replicas (4 click, no floating firing pin) with a few exceptions from Uberti. But Pietta has a knack for putting the warning label on the sides of the barrel, and Uberti puts it at the top.
Many of the Colt SAAs and their clones have a slightly high front sight, so that the owner can file the sight down to achieve a proper sight picture when sighting the guns in. It seemed that you were missing low in what was shown. Also, black powder shooters welcome the larger barrel/cylinder gap due to the greater fouling of black powder.
I have the Uberti 1873 cattlemen .45colt with the color case hardened & I really like it! I have 3 brothers,2 former law enforcement officers & one retired school teacher/ big game hunter& none of them are allowed to touch my Uberti! I have loaned my Ruger Blackhawk. 45colt...but not the Uberti!!! It's just too nice! I let my uncle,who was at one time on the U.S.M.C. pistol marksmanship team in the 1960's @ camp Pendleton; & he agreed that I shouldn't let anyone shoot it!
Glad you finally got 5 hits! Tuco probably would have only needed one take😅 I'm thinking that extra $150 would be money well spent for that beautiful and smooth revolver. I especially like that flatter hammer spur. Sure appreciate your hard work and vast knowledge on guns. Many thanks for bringing us another great video!
I have two Pietta 1873 revolvers that have a transfer bar ala Ruger rather than the firing pin on the hammer. Those guns only have three clicks. I've done some magic work to those revolvers like I do to all my guns. Another great video, George, thanks.
A lightened hammer spring is ok on a range toy. But for a working gun I want the harder hammer fall. Due to the primmer shorter there are now people using rifle primers to reload pistol cartridges. Always good to have a little more oomph when the hammer falls.
I have a Taylor’s 1858 black powder revolver that I did a 45 colt conversion on. It’s a beautiful gun and shoots great! Nice I really enjoy your videos.
Haha Tuco love it. Ok cowboy pistol , load 4 fire six. Do this for a while "practice" I know is expensive. Next day load five fire six. I think we all have that one miss, make the target look bad or the old man look bad hahaha. Take care sir, nice review. From an old Floridacracker
I have two Uberti's SAA guns. One is in 44 spl with 4.75" barrel and one in .357 with 7.5" Both are among my most accurate handguns. All Colts and clones have 4 clicks because the first notch is a safety notch. It keeps the hammer from contacting the primer of the round in the chamber. Many firearms did not have a safety notch but.... The Colt and clones were perfectly safe to carry with all 6 and on the safety notch. This is how Colt meant the gun to be carried. Percussion guns before then had a notch between the chambers to rest the hammer on so they were safe to carry fully loaded. I know a lot of you will not agree with me on the safety notch.. Before the hate flows.... Know that Colt said to carry all six... Also... in order for the gun to fire you would have to break it. Meaning.... the notch (which is deep) would have to sheer off the hammer or the trigger sear would have to break and then... it would still have to have the hammer hit the primer with enough force to actually fire. I have never found one real life incident of this happening. I have seen vids of guys TRYING to break the notch/sear by hitting the hammer with... a hammer. Also for the 'load one skip one load four' crowd. What do you do if you cock the gun to take a shot and then don't take the shot? Lower the hammer on a live round then try to figure out how to get back to the empty chamber? Shoot a round into the air? Send the cocked and loaded gun back to the factory? LOL... I am a handloader... Primers do not go off easily.... a dirty look won't do it.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post that very comprehensive comment. I'm sure you'll understand that, as a "public figure", I can't advocate bypassing a known safety procedure. And I also assumed four clicks, but as I said in the video these Uberti's from Taylor's only have three.
@@TargetSuite I completely understand and as I say.. it is controversial. I know that the new Ubertis have only 3 clicks (eliminating the safety notch) because they use a really strange hammer nose safety. It really wasn't until the Ruger came out with their version of the Colt that anyone even thought about it.
Always enjoy seeing you shoot the old timers guns .😎🤙 👍👍👍 PS./ 1 thing though I would have love if you had just and old incandescent bulb on top of those beautiful guns to really show them off maybe mext time 🤗😉 !!
I have one of Uberti’s Cattleman’s stainless and am really impressed with the fit and finish. I also bought a Smith & Wesson 629 shortly after I bought the cattleman and was not impressed at all with the cylinder/chamber sizing. The Smith, for all the miner, had 4 different measurements for the 6 chambers, none of them conducive to accurate shooting of cast bullets. The Uberti was very precise with all 6 chambers measuring exactly the same. I ended up reaming the chambers on the Smith myself to allow it to shoot accurately and not lead up.
Very nice guns and great video! I have a Cimarron-which I believe is made by the same company- 3.5" barrel Birdshead modle in 45 Colt that i love. A friend wants to buy it from me but is NFS. Beautiful guns
The larger cylinder gap comes in handy when shooting black powder. I have a 3rd gen Colt SAA and also a Ruger vaquero. The colt is about .12 and the ruger is about half that. I can shoot about 50 black powder loads thru the colt before the cylinder starts to bind. The ruger can only make it 8 rounds on average. My understanding is that the lager gap was a reliability feature when the SAA came out.
If you want the traditional bone charcoal case colors and 4 click hammer I recommend Standard Manufacturing. I have one and it is stunning to find such a high level of fit and finish on a new production firearm. It is like stepping back in time.
That low, wide hammer is not to facilitate fanning. It was introduced on the Taylor Run-n-Iron revolver which was designed for mounted cowboy shooting. They shoot “duelist” style (with one hand) and the lower hammer spur is easier to reach. I think that revolver features a wider centered trigger but I can’t tell if your Defenders have that feature.
Beautiful. But my idea of a “tune” includes taking that barrel cylinder gap down to a bare minimum. I’m not going to rapid fire so many that I worry about the cylinder expanding and binding, but I want maximum performance from my loads. And, given that my first centerfire revolver experience was a K-38 made in 1952, I do insist on a good trigger. 👍
I agree - those B/C gaps are unacceptable. For me, .003" is maximum allowable. You lose a lot of pressure with those big gaps and resultant loss in MV. And, BTW - Tuco was the "ugly" in the Good, Bad, and the Ugly. You are a more (slightly!) handsome dude. For comparison, the BC gap on my Freedom Arms 454 Casull is a very tight .001". BFRs around .002" - .003".
Nice. I have the pietta 1873 frontier 4 click hammer and the gap is a honest .006 thousands with the 45LC and 45ACP cylinder. That tuned cylinder gap you can tthrow a small cat through is unacceptable. Although Smith and Wesson would tell you it's in spec.
I prefer buying the standard version and a spring kit as marketed toward Cowboy Action Shooters. I do not alter sear engagement. The Cattleman version you showed is sort of a semi- Bisley design. I was happy to see your "proper" one handed use of the tuned version. Now, get both revolvers, one in each hand and try Duelist and Gunfighter! Then with real black powder rounds! Yeeee Haaaaaa!
Hi George, I always enjoy your videos and wish I lived nearby cuz I'd love to come by and take you to lunch. I just couldn't help but mention that I bought a bunch of these 1873 SAAs a few years ago (I think I had nine all together - including an El Malo in 357 Magnum) and several 22s. I still have several of them although I've sold a few to friends, and probably my favorite is my 5½" barrel 12 round Cattleman 22 caliber. Now imagine that full size barrel but only drilled for 22 caliber and you've got one nose heavy and stable shooter! When's I go out I like to practice "Aim Small, Miss Small" so I shoot clay pigeons sitting on the berm, not at 25 yards or 50, not at 75 or 100, and not at 150 or 200 yards - but 200 meters. I don't know if you can get that much range at your range but I suggest you give it a try with your Smith & Wesson 17 and see how many rounds it takes to hit the first one. I think you'll probably have a kick in the pants time. It's really fun using that silly so-called sighting system of the 1873, but well - that's part of the challenge isn't it 🤓 Since I can't really see very well up close, being in my early 60s, I have to wear glasses in order to line up the sights, and of course having glasses which are designed for up close like reading or something within two or three feet, I find I end up having to aim at the center of the blur. Anyway I really enjoyed this video ( I enjoy them all but this one especially) because couple of years ago I bought the last evil Roy from Evil Roy himself, Gene Pearcy, and it was a 4¾" early style with the screw underneath instead of the push pin, but boy is it a nice shooter and the trigger on that one is somewhere around 14 oz! I'd say if you have the chance to pick up an older four click 12 round .22 - DO IT! - it's a completely different feel with that heavy barrel. Now I've had the 7⅐" but didn't care for it as much as the 5½" but your mileage may vary. Well keep up doing what you're doing I'm really enjoying it, 73
Love the Uberti Colt Peacemaker clones! I especially like the Taylor tuned Gunfighter with the larger Army grips and the lower smoke wagon hammers. I have a 5.5" pair in 44-40 with the factory short stroke and Taylor tuning. They are so sweet! I shoot unsupported (single handed) double dualist style (left and right handed) in Cowboy Action as a Classic Cowboy.
Soy un gran admirador de los revólveres de simple acción y creo que el 357 se ajusta a esos revólveres como ningún otro calibre . El 44 mágnum también es un tiro fenomenal pero tiene mucho retroceso, y no es para cualquiera.la única lastima es que no entiendo nada de inglés y no entiendo lo que dice 😂
Nice SA revolvers! I'm glad companies are making the "close to original" copies, I just wish some US companies would. I suppose the Ruger (cowboy gun) Vaquero counts, but for some reason they don't quite get there for me. Edited for clarity.
Excellent Review! They are really nice guns (with the exception of the barrel/cyl gap). The only thing that stops me from buying a classic single action is the lack of adjustable sights. It's a personal pet peeve of mine. Remembering Kentucky Windage on multiple revolvers and multiple loads is a bit much for my limited capacity to remember such details- so, for me, it's Ruger Single Actions and... maybe someday a Freedom Arms. As an aside, I hear GREAT things about the Standard Manufacturing single action. It's my understanding that the fit/finish and case hardening may be superior to Colt.
I have a Standard Manufacturing Single Action and you have heard correctly. It is stunning! I am also a machinist and inspected everything very closely and found no flaws.
Either is a beautiful revolver to own but I wonder how they compare to the newer Great Western models imported by EMF. Be terrible to own one in 32/20 or 38/40. Lol. Thanks for the info on 2 great single actions. 🙏 👍
Those are some really nice looking pistols . I know it makes my day when all the bullets go where I want them lol . Just a guess , but I would bet there was a lot more fanning in Hollywood than the old west . Great comparison . You have a blessed one .
More data points for you. I have 3 Cimarron Model P Colt clones; 2 in 357 and one in 45. Both of the 357s have a cylinder gap of 11 thousandths while the 45 has a gap of 5 thousandths. One 357 has a trigger pull of 1.5 pounds and a hammer of 4 pounds; the second 357 has a trigger of 2 pounds and a hammer of 4.75 pounds. The 45 has a trigger of 2.5 pounds and a hammer of 5.25 pounds. None of these have been tuned in any way by me or anyone else. I'm really not sure the "tuning" done by the importers is worth the extra cash.
I have a Uberti .357 that has the three click hammer with the dual notch base pin safety and a Great Western ( Pietta ) U.S. Marshal in 45 Colt/45 ACP that has the Colt style 4 click hammer with no safety features. I got an extra Uberti dual notch base pin for the Pietta from Taylors in case I want to have that feature on it and it works fine. Both are nice revolvers.
Last month a Interarms Virginian Dragoon in 45 colt with a 6 inch barrel in good shape showed up in my safe. It is quite a lot of gun as compared to the 357 mag models that I usually shoot. A little bit different than these in that it has the adjustable rear sight.
Well done, George. Congratulations on getting 5 out of 5 hits. It became apparent that once you switched from "dumb-dumbs" to real "Cowboy" loads, your shooting improved dramatically. I will say, I do like the changes the Defender series offers. I guess I'll need to bring my feeler gauges to my LGS to make sure I avoid getting one with too large a B/C gap. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting, once again.
I have several Uberti-built revolvers. The cylinder to barrel gaps on mine have the same spread as those two you have...smallest is .009, largest is .013. If someone at the factory were to put the time into these guns to make them really tight, such as .008 or less, it would certainly increase the cost of them. So it's a trade-off for having a very affordable revolver. Just my two cents.
I just bought the Cimarron P, in 44-40. At first glance it looks beautiful, but a closer look show scratches down both side of the barrel where they rolled the lettering into the barrel and the receiver has unpolished metal that was case color hardened over. I should have bought the Taylors.
Taylors and Cimarron both import from the same manufacturers in Italy. So, I'm not sure changing companies would lower your risk of that kind of problem. But, I am pretty new to this genre of imported firearms.
I think the Cimarron guns are from Uberti, but not sure where Taylors are made. I just checked, You are right sir, they are both Uberti made. Cimarron is workng with me to get the gun and get it repaired. But no ones likes that dance. @@TargetSuite
Did the cylinder move front to back or was the gap fixed in place? I suppose a swap of cylinders for a measurement might be possible to see if the gap follows the cylinder.
I recently picked up a new Taylor smoke wagon model in 44-40 to go along with my Rossi 92 in 44-40. The Taylors can be safely carried with 6 in the cylinder, due to the use of a retracting firing pin system.
@@TargetSuite The Swiss Safe function. push the pin in to the second notch and it holds the hammer back off of the round. It was standard on the Virginian Dragoons.
@@TargetSuite Nice video on the Taylor Gunfighters. Both beautiful revolvers! The specs for those models, standard and tuned, state that they have retractible firing pins. However with the lower hammer on the models demonstrated, during the hammer resistance measurements, it looked to me that the firing pins were of the fixed Colt style. The pics of this model, on the Taylor website, show a standard style hammer in lieu of the lower hammer which was on the revolvers. Maybe the firing pins on these lower hammers is a fixed firing pin? Nice video and still great shooting!
@@TargetSuite on my taylor, with the hammer down and the trigger not pulled, the firing pin is able to be pushed back into the hammer, and will protrude out again when the trigger is pulled.
With that “Cattleman 2” system the firing pin will retract into the hammer unless the trigger is being depressed. A passive safety that retains the traditional look of a hammer mounted firing pin. It eliminated the need for the so-called “safety notch” which is why you are missing that first click. Read the owner’s manual, though. I think Uberti recommends against carrying with six.
Beautiful pistols. I did notice you didn't have the camera pointed down range for those 5 "hits". Hmmm, so did you really do it or just edit some plate ringing? LOL!
I suspect that with only three clicks, there is a built-in firing pin saftey similiar to the Uberti Cattleman II. May not neccessary to only load five. See if the firing pin is protruding through the recoil shield with the trigger not depressed. It looks more "authentic" than the hammer transfer bar system.
from ruger forums, cg is ckecked with cylinder pushed forward, then checked again with cylinder pushed back and difference is end shake, the way it was described to me was when primer fires powder the bullet is thrown forward and pulls the cylinder with it to give a smaller cg. to much end shake is far worse than cg, ckeck out the forum for better info....
Good video! The first time I put an 1860 frame on a SAA was back in the 1980s, and it's a feature I heartily approve of. But that cylinder gap? You'd think the folks at Taylors would select the gun for tuning more carefully, and frankly I'd deadline a new gun for a cylinder gap that large. It's just plain sloppy workmanship.
Is it really tuned, or does it just have a lighter main spring? A lighter hammer tends to invite light primer strikes. The flatter hammer spur and longer grip appears to be Taylor's Bisley interpretation. It would fit my hand better than the regular SAA grip shape.
When shooting two-handed, use your the thumb on the supporting hand to cock the hammer. Every time you cock with your shooting hand you change your grip.
I ran a business in Northern nj. I was on my way home from shooting. My wife called me to meet the police at our warehouse about 10 pm. The police asked me to let them in. I said could I load and carry my 46 colt 7.5 inch blackhawknand holster it. This is new jersey after all. They said my warehouse so same as carrying at my business. We went to the warehouse. I stood by the door since they had vests and I did not. They chased him. He came my way. When zi pointed my ruger he stopped. 45 colt 255 grain swc at 1k fps he would have been stopped
Great video George and nice shooting. It's not easy to use those rear gutter sights. I was wondering George on the first click did the hammer stop about 1/8 of a inch? Or did it go too the half cock too rotate the cylinder for loading? Because you said no T. The T is full hammer cock. The 1/8 was the C and a so called safety notch, but the notch was very small and the hammer would sometimes slide of or get rounded and not hold the hammer back. That's way the cowboy load. Those are two beautiful guns for sure. Thanks for all your hard work and time Sir.🤠
I cant shoot my single actions with two hands. It's more comfortable to shoot with one hand. I can use two hands on my round butt double actions. It depends on the grip shape.
Exceptionally nice video 😎 PS. I personally think that having to pay extra for the revolver to be where it’s supposed to be is ridiculous, in my field I would never offer a job to someone and then tell them for $150 more, I can make it better ! Have honor and pride 👍
Well George you got me thinking. Wow! 13 thousandths cylinder gap is unacceptable. However, there may be an explanation: black powder. I’m seeing .008-.010” suggested for black powder. Blatantly appealing to authority, Jerry Kuhnhausen explicitly recommends .006” for jacketed bullets and .008” for lead bullets in a Colt Single Action Army revolver (page 132). My Taylor “tuned” Gunfighter has a cylinder gap of .010”. I didn’t notice any bad effects but am not happy. My Standard Manufacturing SAA clone has a cylinder gap of 0.03”. It nicely accurate but that’s too tight, even for a modern Smith & Wesson double action revolver. A USFA single action has a cylinder gap of 0.0015”. A thou’ and a half. Good thing she’s a safe queen, eh? BTW I really like the Gunfighter model. That little bit longer 1860 frame is great. Mine doesn’t have checkering on the grip or that lower hammer spur.
I recently purchased one of Taylors single actions , can't recall the model, but stainless and fully engraved in .357 beautiful gun just not as accurate as it should be . Definitely not as accurate as my Ruger Blackhawk. But still great looking gun.
Look at the amaricon Gun made You find Diferince 44 Colt Tree pount triger You have to take the gun apart To take the sillender out barral Inter changable sillinder inter changes ide like to put a 38 Sillinder in mine Change the Barral.
Rite I'm interested in the 22 Magnum 1865 Army price one for sell thim are in my price rand thim are ok Made for my Belt carry on my side Really I'm looking for Protection in my home I don't carry no more.
That's why a lot of people have left CAS for wild bunch. They come and use .38s with short barrels, and their left thumb to cock the hammer. First time I seen someone do this I nearly laughed. Wait Mr. Bad guy, I have to use my left thumb on my hammer. It's why I switched to Wild Bunch. Only handguns used are 1911s. Separate matches for Traditional and New Fangled beaver tail type guys. Rifles must be of .40 or larger calibers. Namely .45 Colt or .44 magnum.
The "color case hardening" on all Italian clones is an acid wash, not actual case hardening. Also, the three click hammer is because of a safety feature that Uberti uses inside the hammer. The change was made some years ago from four to three clicks.
Yup you can tell by the triggers ugly position out in the middle of the trigger guard
Always a fan of Single actions and lever guns. I look forward to your videos great job.
Considering my childhood, I should be shooting nothing but 1873 Colts and Winchesters. But those firearms got away from me too long ago. So, I will continue to watch and enjoy you doing it!
Fantastic!
Nice pistols 👍the fact that you like lever action rifles is why I like your channel, I just wish the prices would return to pre covid it almost makes me sick to my stomach when I checked the price of a Marlin 336 made by Ruger unbelievable how they tripled the price .
Thanks. What will really make you sick at your stomach is to look at the price of a comparable All Steel Henry Big Boy. $1000+ !
@@TargetSuiteMy Henry Golden Boy. 22 was $529.00 regular price at Academy a few weeks ago. I consider that a very good price the quality.
"I always seem to leave one out" is the story of my life, George! Nice video Mate!
Gotta love the Taylors. They sure turn out beautiful firearms. One of these days... They’re on my bucket list.
Just keep in mind that both Taylor's and Cimarron use Uberti and Pietta as manufacturers, so when you're researching a specific model, you might want to check who makes it. If you're a stickler for details like me, I mean.
Uberti is my preferred manufacturer for quality, but Pietta is the only one that does more authentic replicas (4 click, no floating firing pin) with a few exceptions from Uberti. But Pietta has a knack for putting the warning label on the sides of the barrel, and Uberti puts it at the top.
Many of the Colt SAAs and their clones have a slightly high front sight, so that the owner can file the sight down to achieve a proper sight picture when sighting the guns in. It seemed that you were missing low in what was shown. Also, black powder shooters welcome the larger barrel/cylinder gap due to the greater fouling of black powder.
I have the Uberti 1873 cattlemen .45colt with the color case hardened & I really like it! I have 3 brothers,2 former law enforcement officers & one retired school teacher/ big game hunter& none of them are allowed to touch my Uberti! I have loaned my Ruger Blackhawk. 45colt...but not the Uberti!!! It's just too nice! I let my uncle,who was at one time on the U.S.M.C. pistol marksmanship team in the 1960's @ camp Pendleton; & he agreed that I shouldn't let anyone shoot it!
One way to get 5, is to load six!
Lol!
I love my Taylor Tuned 357. I have more than 2000+ through it. Still tight, beautiful and accurate.
That's great. I hope to get lots more rounds through this pair as well.
Glad you finally got 5 hits! Tuco probably would have only needed one take😅 I'm thinking that extra $150 would be money well spent for that beautiful and smooth revolver. I especially like that flatter hammer spur.
Sure appreciate your hard work and vast knowledge on guns. Many thanks for bringing us another great video!
Thanks. Really nice comment!
Have you had issues with light primer strikes because of the safety hammer?
I have two Pietta 1873 revolvers that have a transfer bar ala Ruger rather than the firing pin on the hammer. Those guns only have three clicks. I've done some magic work to those revolvers like I do to all my guns. Another great video, George, thanks.
Excellent analysis of the two Taylors. Thanks.
Outstanding Video, Tuco!
Christ bless and Thank You!!
A lightened hammer spring is ok on a range toy. But for a working gun I want the harder hammer fall. Due to the primmer shorter there are now people using rifle primers to reload pistol cartridges. Always good to have a little more oomph when the hammer falls.
I've owned a Taylor "Uberty" 45LC and yes they are worth it. The trigger is exceptionally light.
I have a Taylor’s 1858 black powder revolver that I did a 45 colt conversion on. It’s a beautiful gun and shoots great!
Nice I really enjoy your videos.
Haha Tuco love it. Ok cowboy pistol , load 4 fire six. Do this for a while "practice" I know is expensive. Next day load five fire six. I think we all have that one miss, make the target look bad or the old man look bad hahaha. Take care sir, nice review. From an old Floridacracker
Very cool. 45 colt looks like a very capable round 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
If fired in a strong revolver like Ruger or Freedom Arms or BFR, it can be loaded to rival the hot .44mag stuff.
I have two Uberti's SAA guns. One is in 44 spl with 4.75" barrel and one in .357 with 7.5" Both are among my most accurate handguns. All Colts and clones have 4 clicks because the first notch is a safety notch. It keeps the hammer from contacting the primer of the round in the chamber. Many firearms did not have a safety notch but.... The Colt and clones were perfectly safe to carry with all 6 and on the safety notch. This is how Colt meant the gun to be carried. Percussion guns before then had a notch between the chambers to rest the hammer on so they were safe to carry fully loaded. I know a lot of you will not agree with me on the safety notch.. Before the hate flows.... Know that Colt said to carry all six... Also... in order for the gun to fire you would have to break it. Meaning.... the notch (which is deep) would have to sheer off the hammer or the trigger sear would have to break and then... it would still have to have the hammer hit the primer with enough force to actually fire. I have never found one real life incident of this happening. I have seen vids of guys TRYING to break the notch/sear by hitting the hammer with... a hammer. Also for the 'load one skip one load four' crowd. What do you do if you cock the gun to take a shot and then don't take the shot? Lower the hammer on a live round then try to figure out how to get back to the empty chamber? Shoot a round into the air? Send the cocked and loaded gun back to the factory? LOL... I am a handloader... Primers do not go off easily.... a dirty look won't do it.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post that very comprehensive comment. I'm sure you'll understand that, as a "public figure", I can't advocate bypassing a known safety procedure. And I also assumed four clicks, but as I said in the video these Uberti's from Taylor's only have three.
@@TargetSuite I completely understand and as I say.. it is controversial. I know that the new Ubertis have only 3 clicks (eliminating the safety notch) because they use a really strange hammer nose safety. It really wasn't until the Ruger came out with their version of the Colt that anyone even thought about it.
Always enjoy seeing you shoot the old timers guns .😎🤙
👍👍👍
PS./ 1 thing though I would have love if you had just and old incandescent bulb on top of those beautiful guns to really show them off maybe mext time 🤗😉 !!
I have one of Uberti’s Cattleman’s stainless and am really impressed with the fit and finish. I also bought a Smith & Wesson 629 shortly after I bought the cattleman and was not impressed at all with the cylinder/chamber sizing. The Smith, for all the miner, had 4 different measurements for the 6 chambers, none of them conducive to accurate shooting of cast bullets. The Uberti was very precise with all 6 chambers measuring exactly the same. I ended up reaming the chambers on the Smith myself to allow it to shoot accurately and not lead up.
Very nice guns and great video! I have a Cimarron-which I believe is made by the same company- 3.5" barrel Birdshead modle in 45 Colt that i love. A friend wants to buy it from me but is NFS. Beautiful guns
Very nice. Thanks for the video
The larger cylinder gap comes in handy when shooting black powder. I have a 3rd gen Colt SAA and also a Ruger vaquero. The colt is about .12 and the ruger is about half that. I can shoot about 50 black powder loads thru the colt before the cylinder starts to bind. The ruger can only make it 8 rounds on average. My understanding is that the lager gap was a reliability feature when the SAA came out.
I haven't heard that but it makes sense if you really shoot a lot of black powder.
@@TargetSuite May not be as relevant today, but just a possibility. Keep up the great content!
Thanks! Will do.
If you want the traditional bone charcoal case colors and 4 click hammer I recommend Standard Manufacturing. I have one and it is stunning to find such a high level of fit and finish on a new production firearm. It is like stepping back in time.
Nice…how many rounds through it and any issues w quality or golden?
@oldhead_ I only have about 500 rounds through it, but all have been perfectly reliable. Accuracy is good and the trigger is 4 pounds and very clean.
@@brianmoore1164 congrats on that! Sweet wheel gun..
For the money they charge, I'd sooner go with Colt.
@@bustabass9025 They are half the price and twice the quality, but everyone is free to choose.
That low, wide hammer is not to facilitate fanning. It was introduced on the Taylor Run-n-Iron revolver which was designed for mounted cowboy shooting. They shoot “duelist” style (with one hand) and the lower hammer spur is easier to reach. I think that revolver features a wider centered trigger but I can’t tell if your Defenders have that feature.
pretty pair, I was rooting for you to get your five at the end!
Great video George I agree with you the gap is a little large. Still a nice set of 45's
Beautiful. But my idea of a “tune” includes taking that barrel cylinder gap down to a bare minimum. I’m not going to rapid fire so many that I worry about the cylinder expanding and binding, but I want maximum performance from my loads. And, given that my first centerfire revolver experience was a K-38 made in 1952, I do insist on a good trigger. 👍
Very beautiful revolvers
Hey George, that other guy was slipping blanks into the box.
both of those guys seem like fine fellers!
I agree - those B/C gaps are unacceptable. For me, .003" is maximum allowable. You lose a lot of pressure with those big gaps and resultant loss in MV. And, BTW - Tuco was the "ugly" in the Good, Bad, and the Ugly. You are a more (slightly!) handsome dude. For comparison, the BC gap on my Freedom Arms 454 Casull is a very tight .001". BFRs around .002" - .003".
Nice. I have the pietta 1873 frontier 4 click hammer and the gap is a honest .006 thousands with the 45LC and 45ACP cylinder. That tuned cylinder gap you can tthrow a small cat through is unacceptable. Although Smith and Wesson would tell you it's in spec.
George, I noticed you with the bigger target. Still a great video, love your content. Keep'em coming.😊
I prefer buying the standard version and a spring kit as marketed toward Cowboy Action Shooters. I do not alter sear engagement. The Cattleman version you showed is sort of a semi- Bisley design. I was happy to see your "proper" one handed use of the tuned version. Now, get both revolvers, one in each hand and try Duelist and Gunfighter! Then with real black powder rounds! Yeeee Haaaaaa!
Haha! Makes me want to go "Two fisted"
Great video. I'm looking at picking up one of the non tuned gunfighter defenders. The longer grips and swept back hammer are really appealing.
Hi George, I always enjoy your videos and wish I lived nearby cuz I'd love to come by and take you to lunch.
I just couldn't help but mention that I bought a bunch of these 1873 SAAs a few years ago (I think I had nine all together - including an El Malo in 357 Magnum) and several 22s.
I still have several of them although I've sold a few to friends, and probably my favorite is my 5½" barrel 12 round Cattleman 22 caliber.
Now imagine that full size barrel but only drilled for 22 caliber and you've got one nose heavy and stable shooter!
When's I go out I like to practice "Aim Small, Miss Small" so I shoot clay pigeons sitting on the berm, not at 25 yards or 50, not at 75 or 100, and not at 150 or 200 yards - but 200 meters.
I don't know if you can get that much range at your range but I suggest you give it a try with your Smith & Wesson 17 and see how many rounds it takes to hit the first one.
I think you'll probably have a kick in the pants time.
It's really fun using that silly so-called sighting system of the 1873, but well - that's part of the challenge isn't it 🤓
Since I can't really see very well up close, being in my early 60s, I have to wear glasses in order to line up the sights, and of course having glasses which are designed for up close like reading or something within two or three feet, I find I end up having to aim at the center of the blur.
Anyway I really enjoyed this video ( I enjoy them all but this one especially) because couple of years ago I bought the last evil Roy from Evil Roy himself, Gene Pearcy, and it was a 4¾" early style with the screw underneath instead of the push pin,
but boy is it a nice shooter and the trigger on that one is somewhere around 14 oz!
I'd say if you have the chance to pick up an older four click 12 round .22 - DO IT!
- it's a completely different feel with that heavy barrel.
Now I've had the 7⅐" but didn't care for it as much as the 5½" but your mileage may vary.
Well keep up doing what you're doing I'm really enjoying it, 73
With the cain of experience you have is easy to tell the better one , great shooting second to none 👍
Thanks!
Love the Uberti Colt Peacemaker clones! I especially like the Taylor tuned Gunfighter with the larger Army grips and the lower smoke wagon hammers. I have a 5.5" pair in 44-40 with the factory short stroke and Taylor tuning. They are so sweet! I shoot unsupported (single handed) double dualist style (left and right handed) in Cowboy Action as a Classic Cowboy.
Soy un gran admirador de los revólveres de simple acción y creo que el 357 se ajusta a esos revólveres como ningún otro calibre . El 44 mágnum también es un tiro fenomenal pero tiene mucho retroceso, y no es para cualquiera.la única lastima es que no entiendo nada de inglés y no entiendo lo que dice 😂
Nice SA revolvers! I'm glad companies are making the "close to original" copies, I just wish some US companies would. I suppose the Ruger (cowboy gun) Vaquero counts, but for some reason they don't quite get there for me.
Edited for clarity.
Excellent Review! They are really nice guns (with the exception of the barrel/cyl gap). The only thing that stops me from buying a classic single action is the lack of adjustable sights. It's a personal pet peeve of mine. Remembering Kentucky Windage on multiple revolvers and multiple loads is a bit much for my limited capacity to remember such details- so, for me, it's Ruger Single Actions and... maybe someday a Freedom Arms. As an aside, I hear GREAT things about the Standard Manufacturing single action. It's my understanding that the fit/finish and case hardening may be superior to Colt.
I have a Standard Manufacturing Single Action and you have heard correctly. It is stunning! I am also a machinist and inspected everything very closely and found no flaws.
Great video!
Wonderful video! I do want a pair of these, you made a great comparison!
There's a reason for those misses, you just can't tolerate the prosperity! Thanks for the entertainment.
The grip difference is like the Blackhawk to the super Blackhawk grip.
Either is a beautiful revolver to own but I wonder how they compare to the newer Great Western models imported by EMF. Be terrible to own one in 32/20 or 38/40. Lol. Thanks for the info on 2 great single actions. 🙏 👍
Those are some really nice looking pistols . I know it makes my day when all the bullets go where I want them lol .
Just a guess , but I would bet there was a lot more fanning in Hollywood than the old west . Great comparison .
You have a blessed one .
I am going to their site to check them out.
I have the taylor target in .44magnum. love it. mine has the special safety hammer so you can carry with all 6 chambers loaded.
Nice, and yes I put a flatter hammer on my Ruger New Vaquero and much easier to operate one handed.
More data points for you. I have 3 Cimarron Model P Colt clones; 2 in 357 and one in 45. Both of the 357s have a cylinder gap of 11 thousandths while the 45 has a gap of 5 thousandths. One 357 has a trigger pull of 1.5 pounds and a hammer of 4 pounds; the second 357 has a trigger of 2 pounds and a hammer of 4.75 pounds. The 45 has a trigger of 2.5 pounds and a hammer of 5.25 pounds. None of these have been tuned in any way by me or anyone else. I'm really not sure the "tuning" done by the importers is worth the extra cash.
Thanks! Appreciate that comment and the extra data points.
I have a Uberti .357 that has the three click hammer with the dual notch base pin safety and a Great Western ( Pietta ) U.S. Marshal in 45 Colt/45 ACP that has the Colt style 4 click hammer with no safety features. I got an extra Uberti dual notch base pin for the Pietta from Taylors in case I want to have that feature on it and it works fine. Both are nice revolvers.
Miss my secound gen peacemaker in 22 but looking to recapture that single action fun
Just goes to show you special tuning doesn’t mean shit!
Great looking pistols!
Last month a Interarms Virginian Dragoon in 45 colt with a 6 inch barrel in good shape showed up in my safe. It is quite a lot of gun as compared to the 357 mag models that I usually shoot. A little bit different than these in that it has the adjustable rear sight.
Well done, George. Congratulations on getting 5 out of 5 hits. It became apparent that once you switched from "dumb-dumbs" to real "Cowboy" loads, your shooting improved dramatically. I will say, I do like the changes the Defender series offers. I guess I'll need to bring my feeler gauges to my LGS to make sure I avoid getting one with too large a B/C gap. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting, once again.
I have several Uberti-built revolvers. The cylinder to barrel gaps on mine have the same spread as those two you have...smallest is .009, largest is .013. If someone at the factory were to put the time into these guns to make them really tight, such as .008 or less, it would certainly increase the cost of them. So it's a trade-off for having a very affordable revolver. Just my two cents.
Thanks for sharing
Nice video thanks
...I puckedvup a Taylor's Cattleman at a gunshow in July for $250...in excellent condtion..
Very nice revolvers. Shame they didn't fix that b/c gap.
Had to laugh, next to last set. 13 thousands is huge. My Uberti blew fire out around the cone. Wouldn't want a finger up there.
I have the Uberti version of the '73 Cattleman, in 357m and 45colt, and a 1875 Remington Uberti in 357m
Great video sir love those beautiful guns
I just bought the Cimarron P, in 44-40. At first glance it looks beautiful, but a closer look show scratches down both side of the barrel where they rolled the lettering into the barrel and the receiver has unpolished metal that was case color hardened over. I should have bought the Taylors.
Taylors and Cimarron both import from the same manufacturers in Italy. So, I'm not sure changing companies would lower your risk of that kind of problem. But, I am pretty new to this genre of imported firearms.
I think the Cimarron guns are from Uberti, but not sure where Taylors are made. I just checked, You are right sir, they are both Uberti made. Cimarron is workng with me to get the gun and get it repaired. But no ones likes that dance. @@TargetSuite
Did the cylinder move front to back or was the gap fixed in place? I suppose a swap of cylinders for a measurement might be possible to see if the gap follows the cylinder.
I recently picked up a new Taylor smoke wagon model in 44-40 to go along with my Rossi 92 in 44-40. The Taylors can be safely carried with 6 in the cylinder, due to the use of a retracting firing pin system.
I'm not sure what you are referring to. When I drop the hammer on both of these guns the firing pin clearly protrudes into the chamber.
@@TargetSuite The Swiss Safe function. push the pin in to the second notch and it holds the hammer back off of the round. It was standard on the Virginian Dragoons.
@@TargetSuite Nice video on the Taylor Gunfighters. Both beautiful revolvers! The specs for those models, standard and tuned, state that they have retractible firing pins. However with the lower hammer on the models demonstrated, during the hammer resistance measurements, it looked to me that the firing pins were of the fixed Colt style. The pics of this model, on the Taylor website, show a standard style hammer in lieu of the lower hammer which was on the revolvers. Maybe the firing pins on these lower hammers is a fixed firing pin? Nice video and still great shooting!
@@TargetSuite on my taylor, with the hammer down and the trigger not pulled, the firing pin is able to be pushed back into the hammer, and will protrude out again when the trigger is pulled.
With that “Cattleman 2” system the firing pin will retract into the hammer unless the trigger is being depressed. A passive safety that retains the traditional look of a hammer mounted firing pin. It eliminated the need for the so-called “safety notch” which is why you are missing that first click. Read the owner’s manual, though. I think Uberti recommends against carrying with six.
Beautiful pistols. I did notice you didn't have the camera pointed down range for those 5 "hits". Hmmm, so did you really do it or just edit some plate ringing? LOL!
I suspect that with only three clicks, there is a built-in firing pin saftey similiar to the Uberti Cattleman II. May not neccessary to only load five. See if the firing pin is protruding through the recoil shield with the trigger not depressed. It looks more "authentic" than the hammer transfer bar system.
from ruger forums, cg is ckecked with cylinder pushed forward, then checked again with cylinder pushed back and difference is end shake, the way it was described to me was when primer fires powder the bullet is thrown forward and pulls the cylinder with it to give a smaller cg. to much end shake is far worse than cg, ckeck out the forum for better info....
I picked up a 7.5 uberti 45 last week
Good video! The first time I put an 1860 frame on a SAA was back in the 1980s, and it's a feature I heartily approve of. But that cylinder gap? You'd think the folks at Taylors would select the gun for tuning more carefully, and frankly I'd deadline a new gun for a cylinder gap that large. It's just plain sloppy workmanship.
Is it really tuned, or does it just have a lighter main spring? A lighter hammer tends to invite light primer strikes. The flatter hammer spur and longer grip appears to be Taylor's Bisley interpretation. It would fit my hand better than the regular SAA grip shape.
When shooting two-handed, use your the thumb on the supporting hand to cock the hammer. Every time you cock with your shooting hand you change your grip.
Thanks for the tip. Several of you guys and girls have pointed that out.
I ran a business in Northern nj. I was on my way home from shooting. My wife called me to meet the police at our warehouse about 10 pm. The police asked me to let them in. I said could I load and carry my 46 colt 7.5 inch blackhawknand holster it. This is new jersey after all. They said my warehouse so same as carrying at my business. We went to the warehouse. I stood by the door since they had vests and I did not. They chased him. He came my way. When zi pointed my ruger he stopped. 45 colt 255 grain swc at 1k fps he would have been stopped
Great video George and nice shooting. It's not easy to use those rear gutter sights. I was wondering George on the first click did the hammer stop about 1/8 of a inch? Or did it go too the half cock too rotate the cylinder for loading? Because you said no T. The T is full hammer cock. The 1/8 was the C and a so called safety notch, but the notch was very small and the hammer would sometimes slide of or get rounded and not hold the hammer back. That's way the cowboy load. Those are two beautiful guns for sure. Thanks for all your hard work and time Sir.🤠
I cant shoot my single actions with two hands. It's more comfortable to shoot with one hand. I can use two hands on my round butt double actions. It depends on the grip shape.
Exceptionally nice video 😎
PS. I personally
think that having to pay extra for the revolver to be where it’s supposed to be is ridiculous, in my field I would never offer a job to someone and then tell them for $150 more, I can make it better !
Have honor and pride 👍
You know im gona think of old Jim Pretchet win i fire mine.
Well George you got me thinking. Wow! 13 thousandths cylinder gap is unacceptable. However, there may be an explanation: black powder. I’m seeing .008-.010” suggested for black powder. Blatantly appealing to authority, Jerry Kuhnhausen explicitly recommends .006” for jacketed bullets and .008” for lead bullets in a Colt Single Action Army revolver (page 132).
My Taylor “tuned” Gunfighter has a cylinder gap of .010”. I didn’t notice any bad effects but am not happy. My Standard Manufacturing SAA clone has a cylinder gap of 0.03”. It nicely accurate but that’s too tight, even for a modern Smith & Wesson double action revolver. A USFA single action has a cylinder gap of 0.0015”. A thou’ and a half. Good thing she’s a safe queen, eh?
BTW I really like the Gunfighter model. That little bit longer 1860 frame is great. Mine doesn’t have checkering on the grip or that lower hammer spur.
Since im from kentucky old Jim pretchet.
1860 has the plowhandle grip
I recently purchased one of Taylors single actions , can't recall the model, but stainless and fully engraved in .357 beautiful gun just not as accurate as it should be . Definitely not as accurate as my Ruger Blackhawk. But still great looking gun.
Hey, George...it would get very boring if we hit all 5 every time.😊
Look at the amaricon Gun made You find Diferince 44 Colt Tree pount triger You have to take the gun apart To take the sillender out barral Inter changable sillinder inter changes ide like to put a 38 Sillinder in mine Change the Barral.
Does the action on the non tuned feel rough? I have never tried a Taylor's before
Nice revolvers, but that.013” b/c is unacceptable and above SAAMI maximum spec of .012.” I think.008” should be maximum.
Are these strong enough for full house 357ag loads?
Why not load six rounds since you’re not actually carrying the revolvers?
Rite I'm interested in the 22 Magnum 1865 Army price one for sell thim are in my price rand thim are ok Made for my Belt carry on my side Really I'm looking for Protection in my home I don't carry no more.
Do you use the 'ball' of your thumb, or the thumb joint to cock the hammer?
This revolver I use the pad of my thumb.
That's why a lot of people have left CAS for wild bunch. They come and use .38s with short barrels, and their left thumb to cock the hammer. First time I seen someone do this I nearly laughed. Wait Mr. Bad guy, I have to use my left thumb on my hammer. It's why I switched to Wild Bunch. Only handguns used are 1911s. Separate matches for Traditional and New Fangled beaver tail type guys. Rifles must be of .40 or larger calibers. Namely .45 Colt or .44 magnum.
Carry with six cartridges and use de safety notch !!!!!!
Like a 1911….
Aim small miss small is absolluty true
Taylors importing Uberti or Pietta?
Uberti
Thanks!
👍
Made by Uberti fcor Pietta. Better to cite the manufacturer! Taylor is only an importer
Hay Blondie, concentrate on the front sight and target.