Many years ago I was given a bunch of pulled military tracers. Of course I had to play with them. Loaded them in a 30/06 and shot them. I learned real fast that what bullets do on impact is unbelievable. They go off in directions you would never expect. At times even back towards the shooter. Based on over 50 years of deer hunting and lots of deer killed the best approach is to take your time, pick you shot and hope you pick the right shot. A little luck never hurts.
Thanks. I knew there were some of you guys out there that really like the 45 Colt. And yes its power to pressure ratio exceeds the 44 Magnum. If only those cases were a little stronger I think we could retire Elmer Keith brainchild. Thanks for watching and thank you for your comment.
Be sure to check out the .44 - 40 That is a pretty good round for such an old timer. It has a leg up on velocity over the .45 colt, but is limited to how heavy a bullet it can shoot.
Oh my lever action brother! I just got mine. in. 45lc Thanks for running the lever guns on your channel. Kept me excited for one until , boom! it's now sitting on my table. haven't even taken it out yet. very happy right now. anyway, thanks for the channel.
That 45 Colt is a very useful cartridge. Load up or down with powder and slug weights. I like to load some down with lead balls and small powder charges. Sounds like a cap gun, but will still go thru a tin can at 40 yds. Then on the other hand you can load up some 350gr slugs over a good powder charge, and it feels like a dislocated shoulder.
Nice job on this subject. I hope everyone gets the messege. You sure do own and or have access to a wide variety of great lever guns. I have 7 myself and am struggling with the desire for a couple more to fill some caliber gaps. Buying more wouldn't be the most financially responsible course to take, especially at my age when I really should be down sizing my life and not expanding the collections. We'll see how that goes. Lol
I'm pretty close to critical mass myself on my own collection, but there are a few that I would really like to have like the Savage 99. But having access to other collections has really helped the channel along the way. I appreciate your comment and thanks for watching!
I sold my guns years ago and I’ve been kicking myself in the butt for having done so. Health issues drove me from the range and I didn’t think I’d ever shoot again. Now I’m better but I hesitate to buy more. The rest of my family doesn’t shoot or hunt so building a collection now is kinda pointless-and expensive.
@@dr.froghopper6711 Glad that you're doing better. Unfortunately now is not a good time to be buying, used guns are high and inventory on all types seems to be low and ammo- good grief. Good luck in the future.
Gosh, I only have ONE. Had a couple others in the past. My 336 30-30 has never let me down, and I beat the hell out of it in the woods. (and keep it clean and serviced as all tools should be) Hopefully it will pass on to my son long before it ever ends up too old to use. lol
I was sure impressed with that 300 grain xtp mag at 1500 feet per second. Wow! That is a beast. That load came from Handgunner magazine and aside from an ever so slightly flattened primer there were no pressure signs whatsoever. But the load was pretty hot and so I chose not to share any of those details. But I'm guessing case life is going to be pretty short with loads like that.
@@TargetSuite yeah but you can get hot 44mag that does same thing. 45lc got a bad rap because most loads were loaded like old cowboy loads just good standard modern loadings are neck and neck with with modern standard 44 mag loads. You should do some modern basic reloads of both with same basic style HPs and test them on crono water jugs and jell.
@@TargetSuite I think the limiting factor for modern loading is definitely the firearm used. The Colt revolver and its clones are not able to handle the potential of the case. That Winchester, and others, however should handle loads that are unsafe in the revolvers. Otherwise, yes, the .45LC has the potential to run with the .44. It's been offered in so many different firearms over its history, that it's tricky to publish load data and apply that data that isn't firearm specific. That's probably why the .44 mag is more popular for hot loads, because its history is much shorter with it being developed in mostly all modern firearms, after Elmer Keith blew a few Colts up....
@Brent Worls It definitely takes an exceptionally strong revolver like the Ruger Blackhawk or a modern carbine to handle loads like this. But the week Link in the chain is the brass case. The 45 Cold Case is just too thin and weak for sustained Magnum loads. Case life will be greatly reduced. Thanks for your comments!
Good explanations. If you've ever grouse hunted tree limbs & brush appear seemingly out of nowhere. Doesn't take much for deflection with any size projectile. Good job.
I, too, enjoy the 45 Colt round, although not for hunting anymore. It works great in my SAAs and Marlin 1894 for Cowboy Action shooting, and is *so* easy and forgiving to reload! The Marlin is much smoother than a Winchester 94AE I had over 20 years ago (and sold). Thanks for the video! And at the end - poor Sisyphus!! ;-)
Years ago I was hunting deer with a 12 ga. shotgun loaded with 1 oz. slugs. A very nice buck was moving off to my right about 35-40 yds away. I leveled my gun on his heart lung area and squeezed of the shot. To my surprise the deer took off running. Ran down the hill and out of sight. I had missed him completely. Went back to the spot I was sitting and looked at the line of fire. About 10 yards from where I sat was a sapling about 1 1/2" in diameter with a spot where my slug grazed off. i never saw that sapling because I was focused on the deer,
Just bought my first lever action since 1980! .45 Colt saddle ring big loop Rossi Trapper. My first impressions blew me away; it felt like I was holding a museum piece. Fit/finish is amazing. Out of the box action was incredible. Absolutely no doubt, the best bang for your buck in todays Bidenflation. Those casings seem not to be ejecting far enough on that Winchester. Love your channel/videos.
I like this series. I especially like the accidental brush strike information. Seems like it would be easy to miss a deer, the deer runs, and never walk out the shot to realize it hit brush.
The .44 wcf is a great round. Has a leg up over the .45 colt in velocity, and i believe the .44 is flatter shooting, and has better long range capability over the .45 Colt. Both are pretty good tho.
I stand hunt in heavy woods, every year we go up 2-3 weeks before season and retrim our shooting lanes. Surprising what sprouts up that could turn a great shot to a poor shot or miss. A member of our party didn't believe in this, thinking he could shoot through the small stuff. He learned real quick the deflection power of a small twig vs his 30-06.
Thanks for sharing that Larry. That's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. Bullets are not impervious to brush. Are some less susceptible to deflection? I think the answer is going to turn out to be yes but nonetheless if you want to guarantee that your bullet is going to hit where you're aiming you've got to miss those twigs and sticks.
Good morning George, I did some testing myself using coupons and what I found was when I made them 8 to 10 inches long and mounted them in front of the target they were very rigid and the shots were deflecting but when I made the coupons 2 feet long and shot toward the upper side of the coupons in length apparently the coupons bent a little bit as the bullet was passing through and the deflection was significantly less, I think my point is that rarely do we shoot in hunting situation to where the coupons or the brush would be that rigid and in a real life situation I think that they would tend to bend as a bullet pass through and obviously there would be less deflection , That was my findings with a 35 Remington 👍👍👍👍👍 Enjoyed your video very much and keep it up and as my cardiologist says ,exercise more and lose weight, that’s what he says about me ! 😂
Hans that's a great data point. I never thought about how rigid the coupons were. It's probably too late to change that right now but it will be an encouragement to us that maybe things aren't as bad as I make them seem. Great to hear from you of course by the way I've been shooting that Ruger single six a little bit. It's a sweetie.
@@TargetSuite I’m very happy that you are enjoying it ,this weekend I hope to have an opportunity to shoot the Remington 141 in 35 Remington , I’m really looking forward to this, It will be my first time, I think I told you but one is a 1937 and the other one is a 1941 ! I’ll have to get them to you sometime in the future, take care my friend and have a wonderful weekend
Excellent - the 45 Colt is my favorite round. I load and shoot a lot of them, both for pistol and rifle. This is a really enjoyable video, especially in the shortened version. Nice rifle! -Gunny T sends
Do they make a hollow point it's more powerful than the cowboy loads but not the plus P because I have a new Vaquero so I can't shoot the plus peas unfortunately but I want something that's stronger than the cowboy loads
What's a good factory load for 45 colt that's not plus p? Lookin for one for a few guns I have to mabey hunt with but not sure how I feel about putting plus p in those guns.
It has long been known that bullets will be deflected by obstacles in the way. The question has always been "how much?". One test that I vaguely recall dealt with small caliber, high speed bullets. The takeaway as I recall was "don't do it" because the deflection of those bullets was a lot - on the order of inches at 2 to 3 feet. Today, you've shown that bullet construction is also a major factor, even when using a traditional "brush gun". I like your videos. 👍👍👍
Great and informative series! You sure have some beautiful lever guns and I enjoy seeing them all! That little guy at the end of the video was sure working hard pushing his ball...which my grandkids thought was gross😄 Very interesting little critter. Keep up the good content and enjoy that cooler weather.
Thanks as always for watching and for your comments. There has to be a life lesson in there for those grandkids. Something about going through life backwards pushing a big ball of . . . well, you get the picture 😉
I truly enjoy your target coupons videos. It sheds light on bullet deflection vs without deflection. I appreciate your selection of calibers because I have all 3 calibers. It really is amazing to me how different bullet types, materials, and hardness of bullets effect bullet performance. Especially since I have a background in engineering in areas of design, prototype and testing. But the one I appreciate the most is the 45 Colt caliber. Reason being while I do have a Henry with a brass receiver and acording to Henry Firearms it can safely handle +P loads which I intend to use it for deer hunting. However at this time I have not hunted with it. Reason being I don't understand it's full potential and I have not reloaded it beyond cowboy loads to this date. That said it's nice to know that I can safely boast the loads to get higher velocities with good results and even try the hard cast bullets with gas checks. Thanks for a very thorough and precise evaluations. As always I look forward to your videos.
Well done, I learn a lot. It would seem to me that even if a lead/non-hollow point projectile tumbles but is not deflected, then you'll have an effective shot. The question is, how far will a tumbling bullet stay on course. For some ADD related reason, this reminds me of Willie Wood (RIP) and his interception of a wobbly pass in Super Bowl I, back in, "the good old days." Thanks for putting in all that hard work, George!
It's one thing for an 85 grain 243 bullet to be destabilized. It's going to run out of steam very fast. But a 250 or 300 grain wobbling projectile is going to carry devastating energy over a longer distance and even going in sideways is going to be devastating at moderate ranges. But you hit on the unknown, Tom. And that is how long does it stay on track? There is just no way to nail that down. But with just an inch or two deflection at 10 yards that gives you an idea that it's not going to sail off into the neighbors cows right away. By the way, we had a front pass through late yesterday. So outside right now it is low 60s low humidity and the breeze. A little bit like California but only from a weather perspective😉
I remember reading an article in Rifle Magazine iirc where it was shown that high velocity, smaller caliber bullets deflect less than slower, heavier larger caliber bullets in brush. I don't remember who the author was... thanks for the vid - you do show that faster, heavier, flat nosed bullets are a better choice.
Curious to see how the 45 Colt holds up to the 30-30 in next weeks test. It would also be interesting to see how these classic cartridges compare to more modern cartridges like the 300BO supers or 450 Bushmaster.
Nice job ! Agreeing with one of your viewers below suggesting a ballistics jell backdrop to capture whatever the actual flight of the bullet does on impact with intended target after "brush contact" (just cant say Coupon ;-)" . Knowing the cost of that jell, I will be signing up as a monthly Patreon Supporter today and encouraging others to do the same!
Thank you for supporting me on patreon. I've already messaged you over there and I will be breaking out that ballistic gel at some point and we'll look at possibly capturing some of those bullets.
It is a great brush gun but the best ummm well I have had every lever gun from 22 - 45-70. I would say the best 45-70 2nd, 3rd 30-30. The 307 win. But as a scout the 307 win winchester 94 can shoot 308 win and eject but won't cycle. But the 307 is the best brush/ scout carbine. But respect you opinion on 45 colt. It definitely is a good brush gun
95% (estimate) of my hunting has been in the brush. To this day I have never tried to shoot through any of it. But of course, as you show, it is not always easy to see. I would be perfectly happy with the 45 colt hard cast lead, as I am with my 30-30 however. As long as it is a light lever action. I am out there for meat, not lugging around a scoped bolt action rifle pretending to hunt in these conditions.
You can sure see and hear the difference with those handloads compared to the factory loads, eh George? I have a Winchester 94 Trapper with a 16" barrel chambered in 45 Colt. I run the 250gr XTP sitting atop a Ruger spec max charge of AA#9 and they are quite punchy. I get 1700-1750fps across my chrony with them from the Trapper. Here's an interesting thing I found. Those same loads run out of my wife's Henry Big Boy with a 20" barrel actually run about 100fps slower. Yep, that's right, slower. I suppose that with smaller case capacity cartridges such as the 45 Colt and others similar, you get to a point of diminishing and even decreasing returns as barrel length increases. Seems that somewhere between 16" and 20" the 45 Colt starts to lose velocity. Nice vid George, looking forward to the next one. Carry on Sir. 🙂
I know this video is two years old; however, I just got a Henry color case hardened lever action .45 Colt. I am searching for the best factory-loaded ammo for mule deer and elk. I found some Double Tap 360-grain ammo. Do you have any information on that load? or would you recommend another load?
From a deflection standpoint, that 45 Colt in 300 XTP was pretty impressive. I understand the bullet won’t perform to its terminal potential once it’s destabilized, but you’re still in the vital zone. Meanwhile my soft points are taking a beating in these tests :)
Hi Charles. In hindsight, I wish I would have tested the 300 xtp Mag on the smaller coupons. But I will be giving it a run for its money in the ballistic gel here in a few weeks. I was quite impressed but would like to see what it does at 1500 feet per second.
I had a tough time contemplating between the .45 Colt and the .44 Mag for my choice of lever action rifles , but I ended up settling with my Henry Lever action.44 Mag Carbine ( the latest side gate loading equipped model ) Now just two days ago I ran into an opportunity to buy a Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Remington with a 20” barrel ( stamped JM ) and manufactured in 1969 according to the serial numbers. It’s in very good condition, no rust or pitting and bluing looks very good , slightly small dings on the wood stock, no checkering on the stock just plain wood , typical wear marks for a rifle of that era . He’s asking $1,050 for it , I’m going to offer $900 . It has an older weaver scope on it and weaver scope mounts which appear to be in good condition . Action is very smooth and it doesn’t look hardly used at all . Does that sound like a decent price ?
@@TargetSuite Do you know of any manufacturers currently producing lever action rifles chambered in.35 Remington ? I was hoping the new Ruger/ Marlin manufactured 336 rifles would offer this chambering sometime soon.
Interesting experiment. There are so many variables that can lead to deflection "off target". What I find interesting is the size, shape, powder load of each bullet as it is compared against the deflection. Then as you stated the tumbling effect as it enters the deer/hog/etc. Do you have a spreadsheet/table to show the outcome of the cartgridegs being shot? Barrel length,, Caliber, bullets size, shape, powder load vs deflection from MOA? It would be interesting to see the table being filled out as you progress with this experiment. I'm looking forward to the 30-30 video. I'm on the fence on purchasing a 30-30 or a 300 Black Out. Your upcoming 30-30 video may help me decide.
How much do you think the make up of the brush makes a difference? The stuff you're using looks like the size of stuff in a ty ty swamp but in most places there your shooting feet not yard's. But what about dog fennel or brom sage? Lighter built than wood to really nothing but a big grass?
Excellent series. No matter how you set up the test, there will be people that complain. I wonder what the findings would be if there was a gel block behind the target.
Yes, and it's hard in the context of a short UA-cam video to actually set up and execute a scientific test. It's just not possible. But I still think we're getting valuable information from the test results. Thanks as always for watching and 4 your comments. Thank you!
Ok, I’m confused. You said you were taking three shots without the coupon to begin with, but your paper target had more than three holes after you shot through the coupon. ?? Ah ha. Heard your explanation. Thank you George. Always enjoy your videos and appreciate the effort you put into each one! Very dedicated to your craft. 😊
I like my 44 mag but the 45 colt is a good choice to if I wasn't already geared up for reloading 44 mag with bullet molds and everything else I'd probably go with 45 colt
Great video George those .45 Colt is a nasty round. What's the maximum effective range for them give or take. That's a big piece of led. Your right on with the 35 Remington great shooting. I finally got back to the rifle range on Saturday. I fired all my semiautomatic rifles and shotguns and sighted in a scope on the 444.I'm not shooting well without it. Everything went really well. I was shooting slugs from the shotguns at 50 yards then some at 100 yards. Also taught my retired Pastor to shoot his new shotgun the only gun he's ever owned he's 70 years old and forgot his glasses. He got it when the riots started in the city. So that was a challenge. Great presentation George. It won't be long until I have a nice piece of property to shoot when I want. It's funny but nobody is laughing the range was empty people shooting 10 rounds and leaving. The only rifle I fired some was one of my M1 rifles. Next week bolt action rifles and pump shotguns..
Sounds like change is finally in the Wind. I'm happy for you! Also glad you got out to the . But you are right there is nothing like shooting on your own property. You just can't have the same kind of fun at the range! As impressive as the 45 Colt can be, it is still a short-range pistol caliber cartridge so I would thank inside of a hundred yards would be the right playground for that old albeit supercharged round.
In my own experience, in the clear, the .45 colt maximum effective range is a little over 100 meters. I can hit targets at 200 meters, but not consistently.
Nice video. Somehow .45LC has been one that escaped me in both revolvers and carbines. My best hunting buddy, however, has used it in his Vaquero for a few. No reason it wouldn't work well.
If I were shopping for the carbine of this capacity and capability, I wouldn't pick 45 Colt. But I already had the 44 magnum 1892 so my son wanted something different and chose the 45 Colt. So, for guys who already have a 45 Colt, they can be beefed up to be very effective short-range guns. Btw, my son also has the Vaquero to go with his 1892. His is an old model Vaquero that I gave to him for Christmas A couple of years ago.
My 30.30 Winchester lever action is my go to gun here in northern Wisconsin . Ist shot of the season up here every deer hits the brush for 2 weeks . You basically have to almost step on them to make them get up !
Smart 🦌 The bucks down here become completely nocturnal if they survive their couple of seasons. The only real chance the average guy has for a mature buck is three or four days around the peak of the rut.
@@TargetSuite Have 10 apple trees with in 300 yard,s of my house and the bucks won't wake up till night time . If you wan,t one you have to actually step on it and get your game on !
Hi George, what was that thing? It looked kind of big. Yes shooting through thick brush is bad you can't be sure of your target or what is beyond it. Safety always dictates if you squeeze the trigger or not. Well done video George thank you.
Hi Terry. That was a dung beetle. I understand that they find a pile of dung, roll out a nice ball, take it back to their Lair and lay eggs on it. When the eggs hatch they feast on that ball. What a life cycle . . .
you hit it on the nose. another wonderful test . with all the knowledge and experience I have, no way can anyone know it all . iam a older dog who loves new tricks. the deers I completely missed because you could see a limb cut into, hit the outside of a small sapling, heavy vines , but as you said even with a scope you miss something. when I put the cross hairs on deer iam toatly focused on center of scope. in the excitement anything else in the scope I don’t notice. only after pulling trigger seeing a limb shaking or swaying or broken. then trying to determine if and where I hit so to track the deer . bullet might turn got to top of lungs filling chest cavity with little blood to track. iam blessed to be a really good tracker but I have lost some but you hunt enough your going to loose game, it will certainly happen. I never thought about doing a test like that. here in North Carolina I. some time hunt places so thick you have to cut a path to just get in and shots are so close at times you could spit on the deer or jump out of your stand and stab it with a hunting knife but I never attempted it but outhers have successfully did that but many failed miserabley . that’s for the wonderful video. nana and papa aka the hunter wishing you well.
Ya know to be a expert according to encyclopedia is if you spend 15 min a day on subject you classified as expert on that subject. Lol lots of experts. Myself experience is the best information one can get. Most was to put percentage on there knowledge 98 % told to them by teacher, book, ect. Only 2 percent is one actually knows about the information because they touch, taste, see, hear the subject first hand. If you have 3% + on direct source your a experienceer. Love you show. I am a lever gun man
Those same size sticks in your coupon is what caused me and my daddy to miss dear for the last 2 years did not see the little tree in between us and the deer and shooting a 44 mag
No such thing as a true brush gun. Long before I started hand loading I shot my fair share of deer walking through the woods of northern Wisconsin. I also missed my fair share because of deflection,using "a brush gun" in 32 Win. sp. and 32 Rem. Long before tree stands all we did was drive the deer out to standers. I know that no one in many groups up here never knew what a bullet does when it hits brush. Heck, I never did until many years later. The term brush gun ,in my opinion, gives a person a false sense of security as to what a bullet really does when it hits brush. Great video as always, I hope many,many people see your videos.
That's a good question. But I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to give people food for thought when they step into the brush. Folks are going to shoot what they're going to shoot I just want them to walk away from this series aware that the slightest little tick in route to their Target in affect the outcome drastically
Years ago I was walking back into a coal town on the first day of deer in Pennsylvania. A bullet passed right in front of me (Yeah, I have been shot at and know the sound) and went through a hemlock (Christmas type tree for the city guys) tree on my right. It cut off little branches in a straight line and some were swinging by a little bark. Will it always cut brush? No, but it is an advantage some of the time. I suspect people that say "Wait for the perfect shot" hunt in a perfect place to begin with.
I'm sure glad you survived to that close encounter:-) You bring up a good point. I suspect some of the comments I get come from people who just have not spent very much time in the Deep Woods.
Hey TS, I don't have a lever gun but I wish I did. I'm a big fan of .45 colt. there was a reason the army adapted the round they needed a round that would knock an Indian off his horse. LOL anyway I shoot a Blackhawk and I don't reload anymore . I practice with cowboy loads and for self defense I stoke it with Buffalo Bore anti personal rounds. It will do the job
There is the Buffalo Bore Heavy Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 325 Grain Lead Long Flat Nose or the 260G @ 1450 Fps, I have never tried it.! Like you said, it's pricey.!
Well, you can take big bore black powder bullets off your list. I tried 58 cal Minnie balls and 69 call round balls and they both deflected. I only know of one bullet that was designed just for this job and it's the DDupleks Monolit steel slug and I can't find any in stock to try. LOL, my RatRod was built using a VW body and it's called The Tumble Turd.
It is an engineering term that refers to a piece of material that will be stressed to failure to test material properties. I borrowed that definition and Loosely applied it to my bunch of sticks😉
In the opening of your video, it appears as though the loads you were shooting are pretty hot based on the recoil. I’ve got an 1873 Uberti in 45 Colt that shoots mild in comparison using 250 gr RNFP hand loads.
Yep those rounds that I was shooting in the opening segment were very hot. Way too much for an 1873. I got those loads from American handgunner Magazine and they are stout for sure. But aside from a marginally flattened primer there are no pressure signs. That's said I suspect case life will be pretty short if they have to contain that much pressure time and again.
Slow and heavy do make better brush rounds . The Colt 45 has been a top contender for a long time . I always wondered why the US went to the 5.56 in the middle of a jungle war when they were using the 7.62 . Didn't make good sense to me .
I think a lot of folks wondered about that tiny little round Spencer. It was great for Logistics but I think folks finally figured out on the battlefield a little heavier round might be helpful.
The US military went with the smaller 5.56mm in the jungles of Vietnam because the average grunt could carry more ammo pound per pound. The terrain is pretty harsh and unforgiving in Vietnam, not to mention the horrible weather.
From what I gleaned last year doing this series, long pointy bullets are the least stable bullets out there. Yes that is by far the most aerodynamic design, but it is also the most susceptible to destabilizing influences.
The larger sticks showed the potential to completely destabilize sure. The smaller sticks, while they still are detrimental to stabilization, a slightly destabilized bullet that is still traveling nose first is okay, in my opinion. It's when they begin to tumble, as you hypothesize they may rotate and turn tail first, is when you are truly in trouble. Any incidental or knowing contact with anything between you and your target is not good. Even something as minor as a bullet being .1" too long and having too slow rifling, or a bullet too heavy and you may lose stability, or never have it to begin with. Brush=bad. But as you said, if you can find some form of data that says one bullet is less likely to completely change direction than another should it happen inevitably, then that is very welcome news.
Something has got me thinking but if the issue is in part down to the bullet needing rifling to stabilise would it not make sense to remove that variable by using a projectile that doesn't need the rifling? Perhaps round ball or a diabolo coming from a shotgun, an inheritantently stable projectile surely must level out after passing through the brush, it might be deflected on a slightly different course but at least it removes that one variable, of course it would probably help if they were hardcast just to keep it's shape
The reason I got thinking about ball is actually through catapults/slingshots, my one I use for rabbits in thick bramble where it will definitely hit a few twigs shoots a .575 ball at 240fps, it is extremely rare for any deflection to happen, perhaps it's more due to the relatively low velocity though? If you want to try it I use 1.2mm natural latex cut 10 inch long tapered 30-20mm and drawn to 55 inches, takes a bit of muscle to get used to, thinking on it perhaps reloading some fairly slow low recoil round ball might be worth a try or possibly use a harder metal as the ball? I'm just spitballing here and thanks for your response
Obviously I'm not suggesting shooting deer at 240fps but possibly going for 45apc speeds with a 69 or 70 cal ball might be a good low recoil brush gun alternative
Anyone who thinks the 44mag is the way to go and the 45 colt is fluffy, they haven't tried toasty handloads, Buffalo Bore, DoubleTap, Grizzly, Underwood. It's capable of exactly the same case pressure as the 44mag. Reason it persists so weak is because of old iron chambered for it. Looks like our little dung beetle friend has found itself a piece of ammunition. Hahaha
I was just told a story about a friend of a friend who made a head shot on a bear running at him with a 30-06. The bear hit the ground, acted disoriented for several seconds, then got up and ran off. The guy is convinced his bullet deflected off the bears skull.
Yep. I have just the hint of a bruise on that right shoulder. Of course that's because I was shooting from the bench. Never easy on the anatomy if you know what I mean!
Many years ago I was given a bunch of pulled military tracers. Of course I had to play with them. Loaded them in a 30/06 and shot them. I learned real fast that what bullets do on impact is unbelievable. They go off in directions you would never expect. At times even back towards the shooter. Based on over 50 years of deer hunting and lots of deer killed the best approach is to take your time, pick you shot and hope you pick the right shot. A little luck never hurts.
Well said. Thanks!
Without luck, none of us Deep New England woods hunters would stand a prayer of shooting a squirrel, never mind a deer. lol Well said.
Tracers are unstable because of the weight loss from the phosphorus burning. Saw this at many a night fire.
.45 Colt has and always will be my favorite round, the versatility and power is uncanny, Great video 👍
Thanks. I knew there were some of you guys out there that really like the 45 Colt. And yes its power to pressure ratio exceeds the 44 Magnum. If only those cases were a little stronger I think we could retire Elmer Keith brainchild. Thanks for watching and thank you for your comment.
Be sure to check out the .44 - 40 That is a pretty good round for such an old timer. It has a leg up on velocity over the .45 colt, but is limited to how heavy a bullet it can shoot.
Oh my lever action brother! I just got mine. in. 45lc Thanks for running the lever guns on your channel. Kept me excited for one until , boom! it's now sitting on my table. haven't even taken it out yet. very happy right now. anyway, thanks for the channel.
Congrats! More levergun content coming!
That 45 Colt is a very useful cartridge. Load up or down with powder and slug weights. I like to load some down with lead balls and small powder charges. Sounds like a cap gun, but will still go thru a tin can at 40 yds. Then on the other hand you can load up some 350gr slugs over a good powder charge, and it feels like a dislocated shoulder.
Nice job on this subject. I hope everyone gets the messege.
You sure do own and or have access to a wide variety of great lever guns. I have 7 myself and am struggling with the desire for a couple more to fill some caliber gaps. Buying more wouldn't be the most financially responsible course to take, especially at my age when I really should be down sizing my life and not expanding the collections. We'll see how that goes. Lol
I'm pretty close to critical mass myself on my own collection, but there are a few that I would really like to have like the Savage 99. But having access to other collections has really helped the channel along the way. I appreciate your comment and thanks for watching!
I sold my guns years ago and I’ve been kicking myself in the butt for having done so. Health issues drove me from the range and I didn’t think I’d ever shoot again. Now I’m better but I hesitate to buy more. The rest of my family doesn’t shoot or hunt so building a collection now is kinda pointless-and expensive.
@@dr.froghopper6711 Glad that you're doing better. Unfortunately now is not a good time to be buying, used guns are high and inventory on all types seems to be low and ammo- good grief. Good luck in the future.
Gosh, I only have ONE. Had a couple others in the past. My 336 30-30 has never let me down, and I beat the hell out of it in the woods. (and keep it clean and serviced as all tools should be) Hopefully it will pass on to my son long before it ever ends up too old to use. lol
@@dr.froghopper6711 I'm in the same boat with you.
The 45lc ain't no joke with modern loadings. It rivals the 44mag.
I was sure impressed with that 300 grain xtp mag at 1500 feet per second. Wow! That is a beast. That load came from Handgunner magazine and aside from an ever so slightly flattened primer there were no pressure signs whatsoever. But the load was pretty hot and so I chose not to share any of those details. But I'm guessing case life is going to be pretty short with loads like that.
@@TargetSuite yeah but you can get hot 44mag that does same thing. 45lc got a bad rap because most loads were loaded like old cowboy loads just good standard modern loadings are neck and neck with with modern standard 44 mag loads. You should do some modern basic reloads of both with same basic style HPs and test them on crono water jugs and jell.
@@jimmieburleigh9549 I second this idea!!
@@TargetSuite I think the limiting factor for modern loading is definitely the firearm used. The Colt revolver and its clones are not able to handle the potential of the case. That Winchester, and others, however should handle loads that are unsafe in the revolvers. Otherwise, yes, the .45LC has the potential to run with the .44. It's been offered in so many different firearms over its history, that it's tricky to publish load data and apply that data that isn't firearm specific. That's probably why the .44 mag is more popular for hot loads, because its history is much shorter with it being developed in mostly all modern firearms, after Elmer Keith blew a few Colts up....
@Brent Worls It definitely takes an exceptionally strong revolver like the Ruger Blackhawk or a modern carbine to handle loads like this. But the week Link in the chain is the brass case. The 45 Cold Case is just too thin and weak for sustained Magnum loads. Case life will be greatly reduced. Thanks for your comments!
Good explanations. If you've ever grouse hunted tree limbs & brush appear seemingly out of nowhere. Doesn't take much for deflection with any size projectile. Good job.
Thanks! I appreciate your comment and I appreciate you watching my videos!
I, too, enjoy the 45 Colt round, although not for hunting anymore. It works great in my SAAs and Marlin 1894 for Cowboy Action shooting, and is *so* easy and forgiving to reload! The Marlin is much smoother than a Winchester 94AE I had over 20 years ago (and sold). Thanks for the video!
And at the end - poor Sisyphus!! ;-)
I would like to see you do this again with ballistic gel behind the targets to check the destabilization and penitration.
It's coming. Stay tuned!
@@TargetSuite that will make a good video, thanks!
Years ago I was hunting deer with a 12 ga. shotgun loaded with 1 oz. slugs. A very nice buck was moving off to my right about 35-40 yds away. I leveled my gun on his heart lung area and squeezed of the shot. To my surprise the deer took off running. Ran down the hill and out of sight. I had missed him completely. Went back to the spot I was sitting and looked at the line of fire. About 10 yards from where I sat was a sapling about 1 1/2" in diameter with a spot where my slug grazed off. i never saw that sapling because I was focused on the deer,
Great story! Thanks for sharing!
Most American slugs back then were "Forster slugs". These slugs look like a thimble (Hollow) and just explode when they hit something hard.
Just bought my first lever action since 1980! .45 Colt saddle ring big loop Rossi Trapper. My first impressions blew me away; it felt like I was holding a museum piece. Fit/finish is amazing. Out of the box action was incredible. Absolutely no doubt, the best bang for your buck in todays Bidenflation. Those casings seem not to be ejecting far enough on that Winchester. Love your channel/videos.
The 45 Long Colt is one of my favorite carriages!
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I like this series. I especially like the accidental brush strike information. Seems like it would be easy to miss a deer, the deer runs, and never walk out the shot to realize it hit brush.
With the .45 Colt, is also the .44-40(.44WCF). In my family, the 1892 in .44 WCF has taken a lot of game in the brush over the last 125+ years.
Thanks, I appreciate your perspective. The truth is, the modern shooter has become so over gunned with excessive power replacing skill and discipline.
The .44 wcf is a great round. Has a leg up over the .45 colt in velocity, and i believe the .44 is flatter shooting, and has better long range capability over the .45 Colt. Both are pretty good tho.
Wow, haven't seen a dung beetle in a long time !!! Great content . Thanks
Me either. That one really caught me by surprise. An industrious little bugger!
The 45 colt Great round around around for a long time fun to shoot especially out of the lever action And with no optic that’s old-school
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I stand hunt in heavy woods, every year we go up 2-3 weeks before season and retrim our shooting lanes. Surprising what sprouts up that could turn a great shot to a poor shot or miss. A member of our party didn't believe in this, thinking he could shoot through the small stuff. He learned real quick the deflection power of a small twig vs his 30-06.
Thanks for sharing that Larry. That's exactly the point I'm trying to get across. Bullets are not impervious to brush. Are some less susceptible to deflection? I think the answer is going to turn out to be yes but nonetheless if you want to guarantee that your bullet is going to hit where you're aiming you've got to miss those twigs and sticks.
Good morning George, I did some testing myself using coupons and what I found was when I made them 8 to 10 inches long and mounted them in front of the target they were very rigid and the shots were deflecting but when I made the coupons 2 feet long and shot toward the upper side of the coupons in length apparently the coupons bent a little bit as the bullet was passing through and the deflection was significantly less, I think my point is that rarely do we shoot in hunting situation to where the coupons or the brush would be that rigid and in a real life situation I think that they would tend to bend as a bullet pass through and obviously there would be less deflection , That was my findings with a 35 Remington
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Enjoyed your video very much and keep it up and as my cardiologist says ,exercise more and lose weight, that’s what he says about me ! 😂
Hans that's a great data point. I never thought about how rigid the coupons were. It's probably too late to change that right now but it will be an encouragement to us that maybe things aren't as bad as I make them seem. Great to hear from you of course by the way I've been shooting that Ruger single six a little bit. It's a sweetie.
@@TargetSuite I’m very happy that you are enjoying it ,this weekend I hope to have an opportunity to shoot the Remington 141 in 35 Remington , I’m really looking forward to this, It will be my first time, I think I told you but one is a 1937 and the other one is a 1941 ! I’ll have to get them to you sometime in the future, take care my friend and have a wonderful weekend
Excellent - the 45 Colt is my favorite round. I load and shoot a lot of them, both for pistol and rifle. This is a really enjoyable video, especially in the shortened version. Nice rifle! -Gunny T sends
Thanks!
Do you use your 45 rifle to shoot deer?
Do they make a hollow point it's more powerful than the cowboy loads but not the plus P because I have a new Vaquero so I can't shoot the plus peas unfortunately but I want something that's stronger than the cowboy loads
What's a good factory load for 45 colt that's not plus p? Lookin for one for a few guns I have to mabey hunt with but not sure how I feel about putting plus p in those guns.
It has long been known that bullets will be deflected by obstacles in the way. The question has always been "how much?". One test that I vaguely recall dealt with small caliber, high speed bullets. The takeaway as I recall was "don't do it" because the deflection of those bullets was a lot - on the order of inches at 2 to 3 feet.
Today, you've shown that bullet construction is also a major factor, even when using a traditional "brush gun".
I like your videos. 👍👍👍
"brush guns" are not meant to shoot through brush.
they are meant to be carried in the brush.
Well said.
Great and informative series! You sure have some beautiful lever guns and I enjoy seeing them all! That little guy at the end of the video was sure working hard pushing his ball...which my grandkids thought was gross😄 Very interesting little critter. Keep up the good content and enjoy that cooler weather.
Thanks as always for watching and for your comments. There has to be a life lesson in there for those grandkids. Something about going through life backwards pushing a big ball of . . . well, you get the picture 😉
I truly enjoy your target coupons videos. It sheds light on bullet deflection vs without deflection. I appreciate your selection of calibers because I have all 3 calibers. It really is amazing to me how different bullet types, materials, and hardness of bullets effect bullet performance. Especially since I have a background in engineering in areas of design, prototype and testing. But the one I appreciate the most is the 45 Colt caliber. Reason being while I do have a Henry with a brass receiver and acording to Henry Firearms it can safely handle +P loads which I intend to use it for deer hunting. However at this time I have not hunted with it. Reason being I don't understand it's full potential and I have not reloaded it beyond cowboy loads to this date. That said it's nice to know that I can safely boast the loads to get higher velocities with good results and even try the hard cast bullets with gas checks. Thanks for a very thorough and precise evaluations. As always I look forward to your videos.
Well done, I learn a lot. It would seem to me that even if a lead/non-hollow point projectile tumbles but is not deflected, then you'll have an effective shot. The question is, how far will a tumbling bullet stay on course. For some ADD related reason, this reminds me of Willie Wood (RIP) and his interception of a wobbly pass in Super Bowl I, back in, "the good old days." Thanks for putting in all that hard work, George!
It's one thing for an 85 grain 243 bullet to be destabilized. It's going to run out of steam very fast. But a 250 or 300 grain wobbling projectile is going to carry devastating energy over a longer distance and even going in sideways is going to be devastating at moderate ranges. But you hit on the unknown, Tom. And that is how long does it stay on track? There is just no way to nail that down. But with just an inch or two deflection at 10 yards that gives you an idea that it's not going to sail off into the neighbors cows right away. By the way, we had a front pass through late yesterday. So outside right now it is low 60s low humidity and the breeze. A little bit like California but only from a weather perspective😉
Another great video and as always very well put together.Thanks.
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching!
I remember reading an article in Rifle Magazine iirc where it was shown that high velocity, smaller caliber bullets deflect less than slower, heavier larger caliber bullets in brush. I don't remember who the author was... thanks for the vid - you do show that faster, heavier, flat nosed bullets are a better choice.
An informative pleasure as always George! .45 Colt is a good round m. In close, it’s a thumper. Those hand loads get it!
Thanks. Yes I was surprised at the punch of both the 265 and 300 grain bullets. Thanks as always for watching and commenting!
I'm enjoying this series. I appreciate the care taken to account for and control variables. Citizen science at work.
Glad you are enjoying it. I sure enjoy making them. And I just can't help that a little of the engineer in me comes out😉
Curious to see how the 45 Colt holds up to the 30-30 in next weeks test. It would also be interesting to see how these classic cartridges compare to more modern cartridges like the 300BO supers or 450 Bushmaster.
One of my viewers is loaning me a 350 Legend upper to test. Maybe somebody has the 450 Bushmaster upper that I could use as well😉
I would love to see someone like Henry or marlin chamber a lever action in 350 legend but being a rimless cartridge I don't know how'd they'd do it
@@tripleoughtstoll8690 They did even better. Now chambering .360 BH.
I dont believe you could tell the difference between a 44 mag or 45 colt from a rifle.
I like the series, George. I look forward to the others. 👍
Thanks!
Good information - look forward to seeing the 30-30. I have a very good story regarding brush and deer. Thanks for doing this series!
Why don't you email me your story. And if things work out maybe I'll share it when I make that video. You can email me at targetsuite@gmail.com
Nice job ! Agreeing with one of your viewers below suggesting a ballistics jell backdrop to capture whatever the actual flight of the bullet does on impact with intended target after "brush contact" (just cant say Coupon ;-)" . Knowing the cost of that jell, I will be signing up as a monthly Patreon Supporter today and encouraging others to do the same!
Thank you for supporting me on patreon. I've already messaged you over there and I will be breaking out that ballistic gel at some point and we'll look at possibly capturing some of those bullets.
It is a great brush gun but the best ummm well I have had every lever gun from 22 - 45-70. I would say the best 45-70 2nd, 3rd 30-30. The 307 win. But as a scout the 307 win winchester 94 can shoot 308 win and eject but won't cycle. But the 307 is the best brush/ scout carbine. But respect you opinion on 45 colt. It definitely is a good brush gun
I’ve often wondered about the 45 colt . That’s a dandy looking rifle. Ty Mark
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95% (estimate) of my hunting has been in the brush. To this day I have never tried to shoot through any of it. But of course, as you show, it is not always easy to see. I would be perfectly happy with the 45 colt hard cast lead, as I am with my 30-30 however. As long as it is a light lever action. I am out there for meat, not lugging around a scoped bolt action rifle pretending to hunt in these conditions.
Well said! Thanks!
You can sure see and hear the difference with those handloads compared to the factory loads, eh George? I have a Winchester 94 Trapper with a 16" barrel chambered in 45 Colt. I run the 250gr XTP sitting atop a Ruger spec max charge of AA#9 and they are quite punchy. I get 1700-1750fps across my chrony with them from the Trapper. Here's an interesting thing I found. Those same loads run out of my wife's Henry Big Boy with a 20" barrel actually run about 100fps slower. Yep, that's right, slower. I suppose that with smaller case capacity cartridges such as the 45 Colt and others similar, you get to a point of diminishing and even decreasing returns as barrel length increases. Seems that somewhere between 16" and 20" the 45 Colt starts to lose velocity. Nice vid George, looking forward to the next one. Carry on Sir. 🙂
Great comment! Thank you!
@@TargetSuite thanks George. I should probably add that "your mileage may vary". 🙂
I know this video is two years old; however, I just got a Henry color case hardened lever action .45 Colt. I am searching for the best factory-loaded ammo for mule deer and elk. I found some Double Tap 360-grain ammo. Do you have any information on that load? or would you recommend another load?
Very good video. I have always shot 30-30 in deep brush country. But I’m buying a .45 Colt in the Henry. Great info sir!! Bud Cary.
I Love the .45 Colt Carbine & Pistol combos!
Got a "combo" video on the 45 Colt coming up!
@@TargetSuite Looking forward to sering it!
From a deflection standpoint, that 45 Colt in 300 XTP was pretty impressive. I understand the bullet won’t perform to its terminal potential once it’s destabilized, but you’re still in the vital zone. Meanwhile my soft points are taking a beating in these tests :)
Hi Charles. In hindsight, I wish I would have tested the 300 xtp Mag on the smaller coupons. But I will be giving it a run for its money in the ballistic gel here in a few weeks. I was quite impressed but would like to see what it does at 1500 feet per second.
I had a tough time contemplating between the .45 Colt and the .44 Mag for my choice of lever action rifles , but I ended up settling with my Henry Lever action.44 Mag Carbine ( the latest side gate loading equipped model )
Now just two days ago I ran into an opportunity to buy a Marlin 336 chambered in .35 Remington with a 20” barrel ( stamped JM ) and manufactured in 1969 according to the serial numbers. It’s in very good condition, no rust or pitting and bluing looks very good , slightly small dings on the wood stock, no checkering on the stock just plain wood , typical wear marks for a rifle of that era . He’s asking $1,050 for it , I’m going to offer $900 . It has an older weaver scope on it and weaver scope mounts which appear to be in good condition .
Action is very smooth and it doesn’t look hardly used at all . Does that sound like a decent price ?
Prices on the JM Marlins seem to be coming down. $900 is less than a year ago but more than it was 5 years ago.
@@TargetSuite Do you know of any manufacturers currently producing lever action rifles chambered in.35 Remington ?
I was hoping the new Ruger/ Marlin manufactured 336 rifles would offer this chambering sometime soon.
Interesting experiment. There are so many variables that can lead to deflection "off target". What I find interesting is the size, shape, powder load of each bullet as it is compared against the deflection. Then as you stated the tumbling effect as it enters the deer/hog/etc.
Do you have a spreadsheet/table to show the outcome of the cartgridegs being shot? Barrel length,, Caliber, bullets size, shape, powder load vs deflection from MOA? It would be interesting to see the table being filled out as you progress with this experiment.
I'm looking forward to the 30-30 video. I'm on the fence on purchasing a 30-30 or a 300 Black Out. Your upcoming 30-30 video may help me decide.
Paul, that sounds like a great idea. I'll get my "assistant" working on it 😉
@@TargetSuite I don't know about that....that guy is kind of shady. LOL
Nice results and very nice editing .
Thanks! I appreciate that!
Great video and lots of information on this subject, good job sir
Thank you sir. I appreciate that!
How much do you think the make up of the brush makes a difference?
The stuff you're using looks like the size of stuff in a ty ty swamp but in most places there your shooting feet not yard's.
But what about dog fennel or brom sage? Lighter built than wood to really nothing but a big grass?
Excellent series. No matter how you set up the test, there will be people that complain. I wonder what the findings would be if there was a gel block behind the target.
Yes, and it's hard in the context of a short UA-cam video to actually set up and execute a scientific test. It's just not possible. But I still think we're getting valuable information from the test results. Thanks as always for watching and 4 your comments. Thank you!
Love my 1892, 45 Colt!
You did really well thanks for the demonstration.
Thank you for watching!
I really enjoy your videos and found them by Buffalo Outdoors recommendation.
That little critter is a dung beetle.
Thanks for stopping by. I really enjoy Buffalo Outdoors. What a marksman! And easy to listen to.
Dung beetles in Louisiana! Very cool.
Ok, I’m confused. You said you were taking three shots without the coupon to begin with, but your paper target had more than three holes after you shot through the coupon. ?? Ah ha. Heard your explanation. Thank you George. Always enjoy your videos and appreciate the effort you put into each one! Very dedicated to your craft. 😊
And I always enjoy your comments! Thanks!
I like my 44 mag but the 45 colt is a good choice to if I wasn't already geared up for reloading 44 mag with bullet molds and everything else I'd probably go with 45 colt
Great video George those .45 Colt is a nasty round. What's the maximum effective range for them give or take. That's a big piece of led. Your right on with the 35 Remington great shooting. I finally got back to the rifle range on Saturday. I fired all my semiautomatic rifles and shotguns and sighted in a scope on the 444.I'm not shooting well without it. Everything went really well. I was shooting slugs from the shotguns at 50 yards then some at 100 yards. Also taught my retired Pastor to shoot his new shotgun the only gun he's ever owned he's 70 years old and forgot his glasses. He got it when the riots started in the city. So that was a challenge. Great presentation George. It won't be long until I have a nice piece of property to shoot when I want. It's funny but nobody is laughing the range was empty people shooting 10 rounds and leaving. The only rifle I fired some was one of my M1 rifles. Next week bolt action rifles and pump shotguns..
Sounds like change is finally in the Wind. I'm happy for you! Also glad you got out to the . But you are right there is nothing like shooting on your own property. You just can't have the same kind of fun at the range!
As impressive as the 45 Colt can be, it is still a short-range pistol caliber cartridge so I would thank inside of a hundred yards would be the right playground for that old albeit supercharged round.
In my own experience, in the clear, the .45 colt maximum effective range is a little over 100 meters. I can hit targets at 200 meters, but not consistently.
@@blueduck9409 Thank you
The three 'dislikes' are rolling dung beetles also. ;)
Haha!
Nice video. Somehow .45LC has been one that escaped me in both revolvers and carbines. My best hunting buddy, however, has used it in his Vaquero for a few. No reason it wouldn't work well.
If I were shopping for the carbine of this capacity and capability, I wouldn't pick 45 Colt. But I already had the 44 magnum 1892 so my son wanted something different and chose the 45 Colt. So, for guys who already have a 45 Colt, they can be beefed up to be very effective short-range guns. Btw, my son also has the Vaquero to go with his 1892. His is an old model Vaquero that I gave to him for Christmas A couple of years ago.
My 30.30 Winchester lever action is my go to gun here in northern Wisconsin . Ist shot of the season up here every deer hits the brush for 2 weeks . You basically have to almost step on them to make them get up !
Smart 🦌 The bucks down here become completely nocturnal if they survive their couple of seasons. The only real chance the average guy has for a mature buck is three or four days around the peak of the rut.
@@TargetSuite Have 10 apple trees with in 300 yard,s of my house and the bucks won't wake up till night time . If you wan,t one you have to actually step on it and get your game on !
Hoping to get my hands on a 45LC carbine. Love to handled for it!
I have carried one for 20 years, never had any failures with it no matter what ammo i fed it.
Nice video, thanks for sharing!
Question,
Where are the sights on the gun comming from?
Never mind, i found a video you made about it,
ua-cam.com/video/HoMTwOkt4yM/v-deo.html
BROWNELLS
@@TargetSuite Thank you!
Thanks George. Seems like harder, heavier bullets are more accurate and deflect less. Still won't shoot through brush.
Hi George, what was that thing? It looked kind of big. Yes shooting through thick brush is bad you can't be sure of your target or what is beyond it. Safety always dictates if you squeeze the trigger or not. Well done video George thank you.
Hi Terry. That was a dung beetle. I understand that they find a pile of dung, roll out a nice ball, take it back to their Lair and lay eggs on it. When the eggs hatch they feast on that ball. What a life cycle . . .
you hit it on the nose. another wonderful test . with all the knowledge and experience I have, no way can anyone know it all . iam a older dog who loves new tricks. the deers I completely missed because you could see a limb cut into, hit the outside of a small sapling, heavy vines , but as you said even with a scope you miss something. when I put the cross hairs on deer iam toatly focused on center of scope. in the excitement anything else in the scope I don’t notice. only after pulling trigger seeing a limb shaking or swaying or broken. then trying to determine if and where I hit so to track the deer . bullet might turn got to top of lungs filling chest cavity with little blood to track. iam blessed to be a really good tracker but I have lost some but you hunt enough your going to loose game, it will certainly happen. I never thought about doing a test like that. here in North Carolina I. some time hunt places so thick you have to cut a path to just get in and shots are so close at times you could spit on the deer or jump out of your stand and stab it with a hunting knife but I never attempted it but outhers have successfully did that but many failed miserabley . that’s for the wonderful video. nana and papa aka the hunter wishing you well.
Thank you! What a great comment.
Whether brambles or sage brush the 45 is king. 😊😇
The grand old .45 colt is pretty good in a lever gun. It will do pretty much anything the .44 mag will do. Cant go wrong with either.
I would like to see what the energy of the bullet is at 75 and 100 yards with some hot underwood ammo. That would probably be a good deer cartridge.
Good video. I’m curious about the load on the 265 grn Cast Performance load, do they feed well?
Yes sir they fed perfectly.
In that last scene we see a politician pushing his latest idea.
Hey great content look forward to more.
Thank you. And thanks for watching. If you're bored I've got a hundred videos out there😉
Ya know to be a expert according to encyclopedia is if you spend 15 min a day on subject you classified as expert on that subject. Lol lots of experts. Myself experience is the best information one can get. Most was to put percentage on there knowledge 98 % told to them by teacher, book, ect. Only 2 percent is one actually knows about the information because they touch, taste, see, hear the subject first hand. If you have 3% + on direct source your a experienceer. Love you show. I am a lever gun man
I plan on buying 2 henry's in 45colt and 45-70 gov
Two great cartridges for sure. Don't forget Marlin is back in business and they'll be putting out guns sometime later this year.
Those same size sticks in your coupon is what caused me and my daddy to miss dear for the last 2 years did not see the little tree in between us and the deer and shooting a 44 mag
Thanks for the real-world validation 👍👍
No such thing as a true brush gun. Long before I started hand loading I shot my fair share of deer walking through the woods of northern Wisconsin. I also missed my fair share because of deflection,using "a brush gun" in 32 Win. sp. and 32 Rem. Long before tree stands all we did was drive the deer out to standers. I know that no one in many groups up here never knew what a bullet does when it hits brush. Heck, I never did until many years later. The term brush gun ,in my opinion, gives a person a false sense of security as to what a bullet really does when it hits brush. Great video as always, I hope many,many people see your videos.
Thanks. I appreciate that!
Very interesting discussion. Will your results change anyone’s mind? Who knows. Thank you.
That's a good question. But I'm not really trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just trying to give people food for thought when they step into the brush. Folks are going to shoot what they're going to shoot I just want them to walk away from this series aware that the slightest little tick in route to their Target in affect the outcome drastically
Turns out that big buck hiding behind that 2 inch sapling may be safe after all.
Years ago I was walking back into a coal town on the first day of deer in Pennsylvania. A bullet passed right in front of me (Yeah, I have been shot at and know the sound) and went through a hemlock (Christmas type tree for the city guys) tree on my right. It cut off little branches in a straight line and some were swinging by a little bark. Will it always cut brush? No, but it is an advantage some of the time. I suspect people that say "Wait for the perfect shot" hunt in a perfect place to begin with.
I'm sure glad you survived to that close encounter:-) You bring up a good point. I suspect some of the comments I get come from people who just have not spent very much time in the Deep Woods.
Are the Ruger Marlins made to handle these strong loads?
Hey TS, I don't have a lever gun but I wish I did. I'm a big fan of .45 colt. there was a reason the army adapted the round they needed a round that would knock an Indian off his horse. LOL anyway I shoot a Blackhawk and I don't reload anymore . I practice with cowboy loads and for self defense I stoke it with Buffalo Bore anti personal rounds. It will do the job
Sounds like you're pretty well covered when it comes to personal defense😉
There is the Buffalo Bore Heavy Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 325 Grain Lead Long Flat Nose or the 260G @ 1450 Fps, I have never tried it.! Like you said, it's pricey.!
Well, you can take big bore black powder bullets off your list. I tried 58 cal Minnie balls and 69 call round balls and they both deflected.
I only know of one bullet that was designed just for this job and it's the DDupleks Monolit steel slug and I can't find any in stock to try.
LOL, my RatRod was built using a VW body and it's called The Tumble Turd.
I'm hoping the Lehigh defense flat nose bullet we'll take the cake. At least those are available sometimes. Love your car by the way what a name!
Good morning brother
Good morning to you. After filming this video in the Heat yesterday I wake wake up to cool temps and low humidity. I hope it's headed your way
Excelent test just the way your doing it.
Thanks!
Do you say coupons for twigs or small branches? I'm not a native English speaker and I never heard it being used like that.
It is an engineering term that refers to a piece of material that will be stressed to failure to test material properties. I borrowed that definition and Loosely applied it to my bunch of sticks😉
@@TargetSuite Ah okay, thank you! Now I get it! 👍
How long is Short Range your referring to . ?
In the opening of your video, it appears as though the loads you were shooting are pretty hot based on the recoil. I’ve got an 1873 Uberti in 45 Colt that shoots mild in comparison using 250 gr RNFP hand loads.
Yep those rounds that I was shooting in the opening segment were very hot. Way too much for an 1873. I got those loads from American handgunner Magazine and they are stout for sure. But aside from a marginally flattened primer there are no pressure signs. That's said I suspect case life will be pretty short if they have to contain that much pressure time and again.
Interesting! you could put a saddle on that bug! wow!
Yep those dung beetles are hosses!
would you becafraid to take on a Grizzly bear with the 45 colt?
Absolutely!
Slow and heavy do make better brush rounds . The Colt 45 has been a top contender for a long time .
I always wondered why the US went to the 5.56 in the middle of a jungle war when they were using the
7.62 . Didn't make good sense to me .
I think a lot of folks wondered about that tiny little round Spencer. It was great for Logistics but I think folks finally figured out on the battlefield a little heavier round might be helpful.
The US military went with the smaller 5.56mm in the jungles of Vietnam because the average grunt could carry more ammo pound per pound. The terrain is pretty harsh and unforgiving in Vietnam, not to mention the horrible weather.
Interesting series! I wonder how a .308 Win Spitzer Bullet would perform.
From what I gleaned last year doing this series, long pointy bullets are the least stable bullets out there. Yes that is by far the most aerodynamic design, but it is also the most susceptible to destabilizing influences.
@@TargetSuite thanks for the explanation, makes sense
Assume with newer lever actions you can use + p
The larger sticks showed the potential to completely destabilize sure. The smaller sticks, while they still are detrimental to stabilization, a slightly destabilized bullet that is still traveling nose first is okay, in my opinion. It's when they begin to tumble, as you hypothesize they may rotate and turn tail first, is when you are truly in trouble.
Any incidental or knowing contact with anything between you and your target is not good. Even something as minor as a bullet being .1" too long and having too slow rifling, or a bullet too heavy and you may lose stability, or never have it to begin with.
Brush=bad. But as you said, if you can find some form of data that says one bullet is less likely to completely change direction than another should it happen inevitably, then that is very welcome news.
Thank you! I really appreciate that you understood the premise of these videos and your last paragraph summarizes it perfectly. Thank you again!
Something has got me thinking but if the issue is in part down to the bullet needing rifling to stabilise would it not make sense to remove that variable by using a projectile that doesn't need the rifling? Perhaps round ball or a diabolo coming from a shotgun, an inheritantently stable projectile surely must level out after passing through the brush, it might be deflected on a slightly different course but at least it removes that one variable, of course it would probably help if they were hardcast just to keep it's shape
The problem is that round balls without rifling are not particularly stable, Especially if they get deformed hitting a piece of brush
The reason I got thinking about ball is actually through catapults/slingshots, my one I use for rabbits in thick bramble where it will definitely hit a few twigs shoots a .575 ball at 240fps, it is extremely rare for any deflection to happen, perhaps it's more due to the relatively low velocity though? If you want to try it I use 1.2mm natural latex cut 10 inch long tapered 30-20mm and drawn to 55 inches, takes a bit of muscle to get used to, thinking on it perhaps reloading some fairly slow low recoil round ball might be worth a try or possibly use a harder metal as the ball? I'm just spitballing here and thanks for your response
Obviously I'm not suggesting shooting deer at 240fps but possibly going for 45apc speeds with a 69 or 70 cal ball might be a good low recoil brush gun alternative
grest stuff .great job
Anyone who thinks the 44mag is the way to go and the 45 colt is fluffy, they haven't tried toasty handloads, Buffalo Bore, DoubleTap, Grizzly, Underwood. It's capable of exactly the same case pressure as the 44mag. Reason it persists so weak is because of old iron chambered for it.
Looks like our little dung beetle friend has found itself a piece of ammunition. Hahaha
Why not the 44 mag? About the same price with more power.
The 44 mag is less powerful than the 45 Colt.
I was just told a story about a friend of a friend who made a head shot on a bear running at him with a 30-06. The bear hit the ground, acted disoriented for several seconds, then got up and ran off. The guy is convinced his bullet deflected off the bears skull.
If the bullet struck at an acute angle that is very possible.
Pointy long range sniper bullets aren't always the best option in real life.
Well that little guy did a lot more work than you did. LOL
Haha!
THose heavy bullets will rock your world.
Yep. I have just the hint of a bruise on that right shoulder. Of course that's because I was shooting from the bench. Never easy on the anatomy if you know what I mean!
Can 45 Colt take down bears?
Yes, but I wouldn't trust my life to that cartridge
@@TargetSuite what is biggest game you trust 45 Colt to take?