Spoon Rigid Collar Installation, Can This Small Collar Change the Handling? | JDM Masters
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Join us for this episode of tune up tests with Japonic’s BNR34 Skyline GT-R as we test fit a small but perhaps effective part on the chassis. Looking like a shim, the part goes in between the suspension subframe and the vehicle body. The purpose according to the maker of this ‘Rigid Collar’ which is more well known as a specialist Honda tuner is to correct a factory assembly process accuracy fault. Resulting in incorrect and imperfect alignment which affects handling. The collars have another function to make the connection more ‘rigid’ , hence the name thereby increasing overall feel of stiffness in the body. Released in 2010, the ‘Rigid Collar’ brand is owned by Spoon Sports, with engineering and development specifically to provide a fundamental improvement to cars. The product range extends to almost all major makes and models, including European brands.
We find out of the fitment of this part would really have the said effect and went without expecting changes that could be felt. We put the camera in the cockpit to check for any changes in body movements before and after fitment. Find out what the results are and if this part is indeed worth the price.
Below excerpt is taken from Rigid Collar website :
What’s RIGIDCOLLAR?
RIGIDCOLLAR(リジカラ) is a specially designed part made from tempered aluminum. Each product has been designed, produced and proven on actual vehicles. Compatible to approximately 1,000 models*, RIGIDCOLLAR(リジカラ) can be installed to cars from almost all car manufacturers.
*As of Jul 2018
Cars are suspended in the air,
This is where the underlying problem was hidden.
Majority of cars today are assembled on a production line.
Car manufacturing is all about productivity with not a second to be wasted.
Engine mounted subframes are raised by hydraulic lifts to be assembled to the car’s body as it moves along the production line, swaying and vibrating. This assembly must be securely done in a matter of a few seconds. In order to achieve that, taking into consideration the swaying and vibration of the body as it moves along the production line, car manufacturers around the world design the bolt holes used to hold the body and subframe together with considerable tolerance.
Bolt hole diameters are larger than it actually needs to be for better productivity. The body rigidity of cars have greatly improve in recent years, however, this gap between the bolt and the bolt hole has largely been “missed” in the name of productivity. This gap is one of the main reasons that reduces the overall rigidity of the finished vehicle.
RIGIDCOLLAR(リジカラ) was invented as a functional product focusing on such bolt hole gap. The uniquely designed collars were the simple solution to solve this gap problem. We are confident that this product will bring positive results to your car as well. Please be intrigued to the remarkable effect and mechanism behind our RIGIDCOLLAR(リジカラ).
Rigid Collar: www.rigidcollar.jp/
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Crew: @captbradford & @japonic_official
#rigidcollar #handling #GTR - Авто та транспорт
only car enthusiast will finish this long video
like me
Facts 👍
Also me.
I'm in the process!
Watching it rn !
It's not everyday that you see an R34 being serviced at a workshop heavily based off of Hondas
They had an Alfa Romeo on the lift when I was last there!
They also had a a90 supra there last time i was there. wish i could post a pic.
Keren twincam gt nya om 👍🏾
@@rofipratama4 hehe makasi om, udh kejual tapi skrg 😅
"Slightly tuned to 600 horsepower" - good one XD
It's like Driftworks owner all over
"This car happens to have a M5 V10"
"Slightly different noise"
I remember first hearing about rigid collar from speed hunters and now I think it's almost essential on older cars 😂
You genuinely need a medal for going into this much detail, videos like this are massively useful to reference just to confirm what you're thinking a part does it actually correct.
It appears that collars eliminate the spring effect of the sub frame and more energy goes through dumpers. So the next step should be ball joints instead of compliance bushings.
I just installed Rigid Collar without knowing them whats it really used for lol so I'm here watching
So in short, this kit improves the connections between the chassis and the car body. Which means that the car body will react to your suspension more directly. As if the chassis was welded to the body.
Not like directly welded. Dont forget there are still rubber bushings left in the subframe. They just filled the void/play between the hole and attachment screws
Yes. Even on stock suspension. And with a strut bar. The car felt more planted. And body roll was reduced even more
Yeth
I’ve got the Spoon rigid collar set amongst all me other genuine Mugen and Spoon parts fitted front and back to my fresh import JDM Facelift Ep3 Civic Type R and it seems tighter on cornering and along uneven road surface 👍😃
Does it improve the road head though?
I have it also on my ek. It does really feel different absorbing bumps on the road. Makes the car feel more precise and solid. You'll be able to feel your suspension doing it's work more after doing this mod.
Is it really noticeable? I've been considering them for my JDM Ep3
Does it require to replace the bolts with thinner ones? Also want to ask you if it reduced the shake on bumps.
wranglertr no you use oem hardware
It's very fascinating how serious japanese tuners take care of such details and wants to improve every aspect of the cars.
I love your content, man. Keep going. Greetings from Argentina.
This man is giving us knowledge and content during this pandemic. Thank you and stay safe.
Underrated comment.
I recently got a full front and rear set of these for my eg civic build. Now that I’ve seen the video from the guru himself I’m super excited to test them out and feel the difference.
Had these fitted to my 32 in Japan after the review from Speedhunters a while ago. Very good upgrade.
Definitely felt that same sensation once installed on my 1992 Cappuccino. Well worth the upgrade. Alignment will stay true longer.
Super-sweet ride. I bet it's an absolute blast on a tight, twisty road.
Man, never heard of this. Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the heads up. And at the right time too, as I’m piecing together suspension parts for my GS. Hopeful they make them for this older Lexus
What a beast of a car.
That was a really good explanation of the Spoon Rigid Collar, thanks for that👍.
Installed them on my Civic EK4 hatch and I love it! I was looking for every bump in the street to ride over it because it felt so much smoother and bumps in corners have not that much ruffle in the suspension. The effect is because you eliminate the spring effect of the subframe to the chassis of the car. The suspension bolted to the subframe can perform better and the precise alignment to the center of the chassis is the key of this modification. I recommend this Rigid Collars to every car with a subframe no matter if old or new. The benefits are worth the money in my opinion.
Hey dude, how does it hold up overtime? I saw a guy in this comment section saying that after a few months, the feeling went away because, he thinks, the bushings became soft again on this "new position" they were in after installation.
How did it go so far for you, long term wise?
@@BlueCrystal1996R I think you get used to it but the improvement of an aligned subframe cant go away. The car feels softer after installation because the spring effect of the subframe is eliminated. You can push the car harder and that gives you more confidence. Sometimes the car asks: "you don't dare to do more?" 😅
@@nfspeedy2 Alright thx! Yeah, i thought that it may have just been that the dude got used to it, so that's why i asked someone else (you) who had installed it too :p I think i'll try it for my next car
@@BlueCrystal1996R Install only the rigid collars and you will notice the difference. If you change other suspension parts at the same time it is hard to tell the improvement especially if you go for harder bushings. Please tell me your opinion after installation. Best regards from Germany.
@@nfspeedy2 Yup, I'll make sure to remember to tell you. Although it might not happen before one or two years, since it's not available for my actual car (nor worth it) ;)
The look on your face after install is exactly what my reaction was. It's definitely there but it's hard to put your finger on it. Magic
21:56 I bought a car with these collars installed, I would have to agree 100% what you guys say here. That is the most accurate way to describe how it feels with these installed.
So much improvement with mine!!
"Don't worry. If you're a home mechanic there are instructions."
Bruh. That looks like hell to install and adjust upside down on my drive way hahaha.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Easy to install with access, which means all day on my drive (which isn't the worst). Cheers.
21:01 reaction: priceless.
I seen these a while back. It is a amazing idea. I didn’t realize some collars break in half to fit, wow. One of my questions was going to be, would they break or crack over time? My other question was , is it recommended to get a slightly bigger bolt to compensate for the thickness of collar/s being installed. But I guess if it’s crushing, it should be fine. Plus bolts/hardware aren’t made in lengths you want. It would be such a small larger length & it would impossible to find. I think Blox makes these also for certain cars. But then again, not knocking Blox but their is no comparison from Spoon to Blox. Unless they are both getting them from the same supplier.
EK9 install please, thank you.
Awesome video.
thanks for another educational video
I love when captain points at the camara lol
"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
The Matrix
Huh...I watched that this morning.
This is some awesome content! I hope that you'll get enough positive feedback and up votes from the rest of your viewers to keep more of this technical content coming our way in the future.
While watching the video, my first thought was that if the manufacturer was aware of the large tolerances at play when mounting the subframe to the unibody (and they surely are aware as those tolerances are needed for the sake of easing the task of fitting the two together on the assembly line), why didn't they either mold the subframe with small riser so that it was "keyed" to align with a specific cutout manufactured into the unibody, or alternatively and more appropriately, simply cast a conical shaped upright collar into the subframe itself around the opening that the bolt fits through. This would allow a large enough amount of tolerance at the top of the collar molded into the subframe to begin mating the subframe to the holes in the unibody. But the bottom of the collar molded into the subframe could the designed such that it's outer diameter would match up with the inner diameter of the hole in the unibody so that it would auto-align to perfection with zero tolerance during assembly when the bolts attaching the subframe to the body were tightened. (Much like a hydraulic fitting works when tightened.)
As far as the difference in feel goes after the rigid collar has been installed, I'm inclined to think that any difference felt while encountering imperfections in the road surface would have more to do with the elimination of any potential horizontal play between the unibody and the subframe itself (eliminated with the introduction of the rigid collar) than it would with the exact centering of the subframe mounting point in relationship to the mounting holes in the unibody. Purely a guess on my part of course, but definitely interesting to think about.
Thanks very much for putting this one together - great video!
Rigi cola ftw, installed on my s2000 and although i cant be certain its not a placebo effect but the car feels much more put together, like a new car feeling
I binge watched all your videos during quarantine, your channel was the best UA-cam find, keep up your awesome work!
Please do a review on Capt’s EK9 Type R
I've known about rigid collars and have been thinking about getting it for my car. Had no idea spoon made them for non hondas though, very cool
Ken, awesome job!!! Let's see you do some type-a stuff!!! 👍🏾 Japonic I'm so envious because that is my dream car😋 ,but I'm glad you have it and are doing these awesome reviews!!
Bugünleri görmek beni çok sevindirdi Faruk abi. Allah yürü ya kulum dediklerinden eylesin inşallah !
Its very impressive to see these days had come. Im really happy to see growth in this channel. I hope you guys will succeed more.
It's very nice upgrade for cars, small but effective.
I got them installed on my 06. Ap2. Really smoothened out weight transition feel from side to side (on cornering) and somehow reduced the" feel" of a body roll. Also bumps and road imperfections became more pronounced but less annoying / duller. Car started to feel like a better, even more premium class car. Maybe there's a lot of placebo, I don't know, maybe I just want to believe it, but, in my opinion this is definitely a must for an s2k. Just a little annoying to install (did it myself)
I run mine with eibach springs + stock coils, 2cm lowered from stock. And on good year asymmetrical f1 ver 2 and on stock ap2v1 wheels.
I had em on my previous 2004 AP2v1, but mods in conjunction were NITRON R1, spherical bushings, CR rack stiffener, & 25 mm lowered engine.
1 of my friends said that it feels like driving a motorcycle because body roll was greatly reduced
@@jinnnguyen7077 ye. The problem for me that the first drive I did was on misaligned suspension (drove to workshop first) so couldn't really test the "unbiased before / after since the car drove like a 1758 carriage ;D
But ye. After that all ppl who drove it say it feels amazing.
Cool japonics is your boy.. nice collab..
I installed the spoon collar in my 2010 honda civic 1.8 sedan today and my God the difference in feel and handling is night and day. The steering feedback has improved . The front end turning is sharper and overall the body feels stronger as if it was made of a single piece.
That Gtr color 💙
I used them on an Integra Type R, immediately after installation there was a big improvement in compliance and stiffness, but most of it went away over the following months.
My guess is that the new subframe position loads the rubber bushings in a different direction that they are initially stiff in, but then they get soft again over time, especially if they are old and worn out like on my car.
Would be interesting to long-term-test the Rigid Collars on a car with brand new rubber, PU or pillow ball bushings.
What was the cost of these collers ? And if you totally overhaul the setup please update the results in real world driving feel !
In the case of a DC2 the effect on the clocking of the bushings would be almost entirely negligible, assuming I'm understanding the application point of these collars correctly.
Did you re-check the torque spec on the subframe bolts at multiple points after installation? The mountings could have settled or shifted slightly resulting in a lower force holding the pieces together (and thus allowing some play between the body and subframe again).
Either way, curious that the sensation would fade significantly over a matter of months; you would think this type of upgrade would be more permanent.
@@Talynen No, I didn't re-torque the subframe bolts at that time, but I agree it could make a difference in clamping force.
The behavior very much reminded me of the time I changed rear upper control arms to the 98-spec hollow bar type: great initial improvement that faded over weeks/months. That's why this is my hypothesis.
I'd say rubber bushing behavior makes it difficult to accurately judge the effect of subframe bushings, in any case.
The most worthwhile permanent chassis improvement I made on that DC2 was changing the front strut bar from OEM to a 3 point bar, btw. Way bigger effect than adding a rear tower bar.
U should re torque it after 1st install and apply thread locker
😎👍🙌🙏 thanks for these vids great info on Go fast Bits !
Wow, Spoon working on an R34. This is my first time seeing it.
That Bayside blue ❤️
The exact feeling is, every bump and movement is now transferred thru the dapper because the whole structure of the subframe is rigidly connected to the frame.
All these small things makes a lots of difference and if you really want perfection then these you should definitely get them in your car!
thanks for the video, great precision! I'm wondering how these would work on a minivan like the Honda Odyssey? I have a 2020 Odyssey RC1 and always wondering how I can improve ride comfort and further reduce noise.
That R34 it´s cleeeean
Gotta get a set for my EK
Have put those on the Front and Rear of my Toyota Auris NZE151H and it feels much more better in cornering ;) SPOON Parts for Toyota ... I like this :P
Yes, I would like to see the effect of those rigid collars on other cars. I'm also wondering if it's worth installing on a stock 2019 Corolla HB XSE.
I was wondering what these collars were for. Saw they made them for the MR2, but couldn't figure out what they were. Thanks for the video.
it's not even 7AM where i am and yet i'm laying in my bed watching this entire video lmao
I'm watching this 5am in bed lol
Same bro haha
Spoon makes parts for vehicles other than Honda?! なに? Great content, keep it up. ありがとうございます from New Orleans, Louisiana - USA.
I use these collars on my two BMW E30 and Merc W124. I got better driving feel on highway gaps and bumpy roads. I feel the body is tighter. It’s good for old cars.
Does the grease go in both sides of the washer or just 1 side?
Hey Capt, That's a good idea: have the EK9 also fitted with the collars, then take both cars out for a touge attack😁, and have ALBO follow suit too
The r34 is insanely clean
One of my first mods. They’re so good that I also made a video on them.
BMW and Audi's have large dowel pins on the body of the frame where the subframe bolts up to.
hey guys, great video like always, was wondering if you guys could review the Subaru legacy GT-B/B4 or the Mitsubishi VR4/Legnum! :)
I have the rigid collars in my AP2 👍🏾
It is marginal difference. You can explore the Yamaha vibration dampers installed on the Subaru S204 and other cars. That has a dramatic effect. There are some copies of the design manufacturered outside Japan.
You guys you'll be surprised that I actually install this rigid collar on my family car JDM MiniVan Honda Freed Gen2. Oh man, the feeling is awesome, especially for my wife she hate that headbanging effect before, and now it is much reduced and she loves it because the car now feels much smoother with less headbanging effect. Install it for the wife's sake, not for the maniac driving mode....lol...🤣🤣
JDM numbawan!
Throwing these on my S2K CR.
So I’m wondering if it would work with aftermarket bushings or would even have an effect? I would think it would initially fit, however sometimes they are built differently. Hmm🤔
Come to Capt Bradford jdm masters and you learn something new everyday 👌👌👌👌
Can these be used with aftermarket solid subframe riser bushes or only stock on the rear? 99 S15 Silvia
Does the copper paste application have anything to do with preventing galvanic action between dissimilar metals?
I wonder how much difference will these collars have on newer cars such as the R 35. Also I have a car with magna ride and I wonder how it will be with that
This product is second in dubious efficacy only to the Yamaha Performance Damper but I'm glad to finally see a solid review on it. Interested in fitting a set to my car to see if there's any improvement.
Do Spoon regularly do installations like this or did they make a special allowance for you all? I'm always nervous about just going into famous or high-end shops and expecting to have work done.
there is only one way to find out ;-)
You can come with every car to the Spoon Type One shop to get the Rigid Collar installed. They did R34 GT-R Skylines before, so they have the experience.
@@nfspeedy2 Good to know, thanks. I have a rather strange S15 Silvia with an R33 subframe in the front but the rear is mostly stock so I'd expect they could deal with it. I've been avoiding Tokyo (I live in Ibaraki) because of covid but it doesn't look like too much of a post-apocalyptic wasteland in your video so I'll try and contact them sometime.
What about galvanic corrosion? Won't there be excessive degradation cause by the direct contact between the aluminum and steel?
I'm going to be the skeptic here. You are fitting the parts onto a R34 GTR which is fully bushed on all 4 corners of the subframe. The subframe maybe centered and clearance is reduced, but the suspension pickup points are still mounted on an object that's secured to the car via rubber bushings. I'm not saying that the collar doesn't work but you are still putting them in the center of a bushing which is going to move whichever way the force is coming in.
On a car designed as such, putting on cheap and cheerful GK tech bushing sandwich plates that basically cancels out the bushing function will be much more noticeable when it comes to suspension reaction on the road.
Automotive engineer here and I agree. Honestly, I'm surprised Spoon sports is pushing out such a useless product like this. Literally the only thing this does is centres the subframe on the body when the bolts are tightened, that's it. Your typical M10 or M12 subframe bolt torqued to standard specs of around 70-100 ft lbs will produce around 10,000 lbs of clamping force. Once the subframe is torqued to the unibody, it won't move under any circumstances. And the minimal change in location of suspension pickup points due to misalignment is pretty much negligible, and not something you'll feel in any road car given all the compliances due to all the rubber.
I hear you both, but then what are the people in the comments who've done this and the JDM Masters guys reacting to? All placebo? What about the small but clear differences in motion captured in the "before" and "after" sequences? I think "slight" and "subtle" is the reality of it.
Good video guys! Very interesting!
I have one question though:
Would it be safe to say that the machining in the car and the holes are bigger to save production costs but also to eventually compensate production mistakes or imperfections? Which means that putting the rigid collar might actually prevent the car from being better centered/adjusted at the factory or the shop?
I see the benefits of preventing slop and movement of these parts but I worry about the drawbacks of having it centered wrong with an imperfect chassis. Do you understand what I mean?
Yes understand completely!.... and great point.
cakeofthepan 22 thanks man!
The s15 rear subframe isn't centered. I can't remember which side it was exactly but something like 3-5mm difference in. thats is noticeable by eye
Alignment techs can depend on these tolerances to fine tune the alignment, and especially for cars that have been in accidents.
All good Jesse..just checked out your channel and subed..good luck with it bro,,and love the little camera person..I,m in the same boat just a little further down the river.if you know what I mean:)..it goes fast!!
1:28 smooth operator
So are these used once and thrown out after dropping subframe again ? Or can we reuse collars again?
I would like to purchase one of those nobori flags....forgot to and couldn't get to tokyo during covid
Just bought some for my S2000! from Bede - gaijin garage :D
Is it a new product? Looks cool!
You should take it at daikoku futo bumps
Ya put it on the ek9 and see if you can notice a difference at the track. Also, will it improve on the lap times? 🤔
Would these be similar to subframe spacers
Cool
Technically, this collar also doing a body lift with a specialized washer. How many mm are gained in ride height? But I totally agree it is designed to center the subframe and body.
Your wrong. Because most torque on chassis bolts are 100+ ft lbs. It will crush the washer part. The crital part is the collar that centers the bolt. I've done this job twice at home. Easy peezy
the real question is, is he gonna put a spoon sticker on the car now?
I got the collars and its all in Japanese. Does the grease only go on 1 side? The side where it touches the subframe only?
its amazing that (although I've been subscribed to JDM Masters sometime now), I only saw this video AFTER I installed rigid collars on my car!
the initial response of the owner of the R34 is the same as mine, I am still discovering the exact difference it makes and will need to head on to some b-roads to confirm. but just on everyday roads, bumps and uneven surfaces, the Rigid Collars I've installed gave a very weird sensation of making the car softer, but I am also pretty sure its more stable now? I also feel I need to change the suspension settings on my car after installing these.
My car is over 10 years old, adding the rigid collars, didn't really make the car feel or drive more brand new to me. But as it was for the R34 bloke in the video. contra to the name it suggests RIGID collar, it does actually make the car more compliant.. and really 'softer', its strange. But I am sure when we get moving, is when it will do what its suppose to do and shine.
My CR-Z Also used SPOON Rigid Collar Front & Rear
Is he installing the collar with the lip facing down into the sub frame. Wouldn’t the lip go into the body for alignment. It seems upside down. @19:23
👑
JDM masters. Got a question. If install this collar do i still need tower bars? Does tower bars really help also?
damn, nice r34
I guess looking at the video, the difference is more significant in the rear than in the front. What is the real world driving difference, if any ? And what was the cost of these without installation charges ?
@ThisSiGuy needs this for his S2000
Can this be installed in ANY car?
hum .... Okachan welded my S15 subframe .... magic happened.... but took 3 months to understand the positives over the negative.... can not turn back now after 12 month , to the day ..... talk about timing of this video.... well done Ken.... ( my only question - what about the subframe bushes there is still movement / flex in the bush so still allowing movement , or am i missing something here )
for 42000 yen I'm not sure they are worth it on the s15.
s15melb , don’t think it would make much of difference if it’s solid welded from memory the bolts on the S15 are welded to the body and if you have solid mounts already it’s more or less centered as fuck 😂
24:59
Store front says Takumi !!
Lot of respect from pakistan
24:10 Is that hight enough for alignment set up？
I would love someone to explain how removing the clearance around a torqued bolt attaching a subframe to a bodyshell will decrease vibration and improve ride quality? The clearance is there to allow tolerance in manufacture and alignment. If we assume the holes in the chassis are offset to the right by the max tolerance of, say, 2mm then this kit will force the subframe to the right by 2mm with no posibility of correct alignment?
Rigid collars & a strut bar turned my car from Rolls Royce to an ariel atom.. shit is great for handling
25:05 😮😮😮😍😍😍😍😍
Do RS R next.