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Oxygen Not Included - Tutorial Bites - Petroleum Boilers
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2024
- This tutorial bite for Oxygen Not Included covers petroleum boilers, why they're so good and how to build and run them.
0:00 - Intro
0:19 - The Petroleum Boiler Process and benefits
2:54 - Overview of the Petroleum Boiler
3:17 - Counter flow heat exchanger
3:47 - Vacuuming the heat exchanger
4:06 - Heat injectors
5:04 - Heat exchanger lengths and tuning
6:21 - Petroleum output pump
6:39 - Heat sources - Magma
7:50 - Magma dropper
8:44 - Magma dropper automation
10:00 - Magma Petroleum boiler one take reference
10:11 - Heat sources - Thermo Aquetuners
11:03 - Heating the coolant
11:44 - Thermo Aquetuner boiler one take reference
11:54 - Outro
You can check me out on twitch.tv/gcfungus
I noticed that at 5:01 you have the Thermo Sensor set to "Above 405 °C" but in the one-take reference at 10:01 you have written "Below 405 °C". Above seems to be correct. That aside, I got my petroleum boiler working today thanks to this video. :)
Thanks for the correction, that is definitely a mistake in the one take reference.
@@GCFungus Why not at least add a popup message in the video pointing out this mistake?
@@insanococo ONI is a game where you can solve problems by tinkering/planning/thinking - not necessarily by copying something 1:1 from YT.
Consider this video as inspiration and like the comment from @FlintLockYT if you want to raise the attention :)
@@rumblehansi Or... if you find a mistake in someone's guide, you inform them, so they fix the mistake. Or wait... by your logic, every person that watches the video trying to learn something MUST read the comments to get it right.
You sir... are in idiot.
Since you gave your 2 cents on this matter 6 months after the original post, I don't feel bad making this 5 months after that.
At the risk of repeating what others just said, the reason your videos stand above all others is not the calm and soothing tone, not the clear and coincise explanation, but the screenshot that summarizes the key elements of your contraptions. You don't know (or perhaps, you know perfectly) how many times in other videos I had to go back and forth listening to the few key words again and again to be sure. Not with yours, thank you so much!
I’ve said on previous tutorial bites how much I love your teaching style and the way you concisely deliver the information, but I need to add how helpful it is that you put up the one-take overlays of each build for reference after walking through them. That is genius and helps so very much whenever I’m trying to remember how certain mechanics that were mentioned work, because I can just look at the design in action and say “ah, that’s the configuration I need to achieve this effect.”
Thanks - I got the idea partly from having to pause other videos and then trying to count them, and also from reference pictures that I take of my own builds to remember later. So I want to make it as easy as possible for people to have a go to image that just explains everything in one place!
@@GCFungus you’ve done just that and I thank you very much for being so considerate in your teaching.
@@GCFungus where geothermal power tutorial bite????
It was a bit of a nightmare to get set up but seeing it working is a thing of beauty
They do take some time, but once they work it's super satisfying and you have a super powerful build!
IMPORTANT TIP: place a door at the liquid locked entrance and lock it. If you dont do this, there is a chance your dupes will try to use the ignius rock that will be sitting on top of the solidified magma. As they try to leave, the rock will boil the fluid you used for your liquid lock (and on your robo-miner), which will cause the entire system in there to break down and melt
seal it and use a autosweeper and run conveyor rails through a steambox like a metal volcano tamer to get some extra electricity and chill the rock for duplicant use or like ranching hatches
That diagram alone is worth more than a dozen videos for me. Thank you very much. Late to the party I know, but I'm sure many other will apreciate your videos.
Thank you for taking my Petroleum Boiler virginity :D I have ONI for years now and It's the 1st time I've achieved this engine :D
This is great, but I suggest a few minor tweaks to make the design more robust and reliable. These changes can prevent most of the accidents you encountered in your Max Dupes playthrough.
1) Replace the thermo sensor in the petroleum with a liquid element sensor that can simultaneously accomplish two goals. Set it to detect crude oil, and wire it into the steel door. This is roughly similar in function to the thermo sensor, but if something goes wrong and there's no oil input, it will prevent any further heat input that might cause your pipes to break when oil flow resumes. OK, now, pass the sensor's output through a NOT gate, then a FILTER gate, set to ~10 seconds, then into the liquid spout. What this accomplishes is that if the oil fails to flash to petroleum for 10 consecutive seconds, oil input will be halted. This prevents a dangerous oil build-up that can cause "overpressure" breaks in the insulated tiles adjacent to the magma chamber, leading to horrific sour gas problems. Resuming heat when there's an excessive build-up of crude also leads to chaotic bubbling and if unlucky, can throw oil into the heat exchanger section, causing further problems. Having 10 seconds worth of oil is no big deal, and this value could probably be extended to 60 or more, but 10 is more than enough to prevent the oil from shutting off while there's heat available. This simple change makes the unit vastly more reliable and is arguably conceptually simpler than picking a temperature threshold that corresponds to the state change.
2) With the liquid element sensor that I've just described, it's now possible to safely stop the boiler and subsequently restart it without breaking any of the pipes. Simply use an OR gate on the steel door heat injector to wire in an additional control signal that prevents the door from closing to inject heat. The oil input will continue briefly, then stop automatically once there's 10 seconds worth of crude-oil build-up -- this ensures that all parts of the heat exchanger, including the heat injection section, are below the oil-to-petro flash temperature, meaning that your pipes won't break when you try to resume production. As a demonstration, this control input could be connected to an on/off switch inverted through a NOT gate, providing the system with a rather satisfying power toggle, but in a real base, the control should also stop the boiler if the petroleum consumption backs up (eg, add a second liquid level sensor above the liquid pump that exports the petroleum). Inability to pump out petroleum can cause the sections of the exchanger to thermally bridge, resulting in overheat of a steel liquid pump (and this design is usually built before Thermium is available).
3) For the interface tiles between the steel door and the petroleum, GOLD is recommended, as it injects less "heat overshoot" than steel or diamond. The heat overshoot comes from the fact that the control sensor in the petroleum (either thermo or element sensor) effectively "lags" the heat injection, and by the time it disconnects the door, the interface tiles are already well beyond the intended temperature (often 700+ degrees when the magma is fresh) and will continue injecting additional heat. Gold has a specific heat capacity of 0.169, while steel and diamond are both around 0.5. On maps without Gold, Tungsten is a good substitute (0.134), or in a pinch, Copper (0.385).
In my testing, I used a consistent magma temperature of 1500 degrees to simulate the worst case scenario of a fresh magma drop. A boiler with Gold interface plates overshoots to a peak of 410 degrees while an identical boiler with diamond interface plates overshoots to 413 degrees and gets very close to boiling the oil inside the pipes (incoming oil exceeded 400 degrees briefly). The diamond temperature spike also lasts several times longer and when the two units heat inject at the same time, at the point where the reactor with gold plates peaks at 409 degrees, the diamond plates are still 600 degrees and furiously injecting heat.
4) To further limit "heat overshoot", consider connecting power to the steel door used for heat injection. This drops the peak overshoot temperature for gold interface plates from 410 to 407, and with diamond interface plates the decrease is from 413 to 410. These decreases are more significant than the numbers suggest because the duration of the overshoot is reduced as well, and because what matters is the excess over the 402.8 degrees flashpoint. The more precisely the overshoot temperature is controlled, the safer it is to use an efficient Aluminum heat exchanger that will bring the final oil temp closer to 400 degrees. My boiler with gold interface tiles heats the incoming oil to 397 to 398 degrees. The boiler with diamond interface plates averages 398 to 399, due entirely to having greater excess heat injection (ie, it’s less, not more efficient).
4) Caution: Never manually double cycle the magma injection while the interface between the magma and the steel door is still hotter than 700 degrees. One caveat with using gold interface tiles is that while they reduce the risk of pipe breaks, gold melts at 1080 degrees, which is lower than magma temps, although note that the gold interface tiles don’t see the full magma temperature, only a weighted average between the temperatures at the steel door and the temperature of the oil (weighted by the relative heat transfer coefficients). In my testing, gold tiles were safe and reliable across dozens of hours of stress testing with a constant magma interface temperature of 1500 degrees, but were prone to melting for a constant 1600 degree magma interface. Note that these are constant heat sources that simulate the peak temperature experienced in a magma drop system. Even though freshly dropped magma typically starts at 1730 degrees, it rapidly loses heat as it averages temperatures with the tiles between the magma and the steel door, such that the peak temperature at the steel door is much lower. The peak temperature that the steel door is exposed to must never exceed 1500 degrees, and it won’t under normal cycling conditions; however, if you are futzing with the controls and rapidly cycle the magma injection without waiting for the heat of the previous injection to bleed out, you can bring the interface temperature asymptotically close to the fresh magma temperature, and this will definitely melt the gold tiles. Don’t do that because it’s a royal mess to clean up. If you melt the gold tiles, there’s no way to interrupt heat flow and you’ll flash everything in the boiler to sour gas and have one hell of a mess.
5) To further increase the safety margin on both problems, strongly consider adding more thermal mass prior to the steel door. There’s no downside to doing this. Putting Temp-shift plates under the two magma tiles improves both safety (from the added thermal mass) and efficiency (improved heat transfer allows draining the magma to lower temps before production stalls). Also, where the stock design uses a single temp shift plate “corner” to bridge the vertical diamond magma interface to the horizontal diamond interface against the steel door, you could expand this to a full 2x2 grid of tempshifts, mainly for the increase in thermal mass. Or, you can also get a slight efficiency improvement by putting a diamond tile in the lower right position (the fastest heat transfer comes from alternating between tiles and tempshift plates; in a vacuum, temp shift plates don’t transfer heat to other temp shift plates). Covering this temp shift “corner” with a large pressure of hydrogen gas helps too, especially if you can use corner building techniques to compress more than 20kg of hydrogen per tile, but this is usually more effort than sticking in a few extra tons of diamond. The more thermal mass you add prior to the steel door, the lower the peak temperature of the steel door will be, which both increases the safety margin on the gold melting problem and reduces the excess heat injection that’s the main threat for pipe breakage. Lower peak temperature doesn’t harm efficiency because once you pay to heat that mass up once, you never lose the heat. Efficiency is determined by the minimum temperature at which you have to cycle in fresh magma (ie, how much heat are you unable to extract?), and if anything, more thermal mass helps you pull even more heat out of each drop.
6) Use a wattage sensor to protect against electrical outages. It’s easy to cut the power cable by mistake, and the default magma dropper behaves very badly when it loses power. Without power, the mining drill doesn't run and the fresh magma drops on top of the solidified magma, contacting the metal tiles that cool the mining drill. This flashes the blob of petroleum to sour gas, which superheats to magma temps, then your vacuum pump probably overheats, your liquid lock might boil, and chaos reigns. To protect against this, use a wattage sensor to verify that the electric circuit is live. Integrate it by putting an AND gate before the FILTER gate that implements the 20 second delay for the mining drill to do its thing. This way, if power is cut, fresh magma won’t drop until the mining drill has had 20 seconds of uninterrupted power. If necessary, you can add a single 10W light bulb to the circuit to guarantee that you will always be able to detect >0 power usage when electricity is connected (you don’t want a false-positive outage just because nothing is demanding power at the moment).
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Some of these tips sounds really useful thanks, using gold tiles helped a lot but is there any chance you could do a video on the automation changes as I seem to be having problem making the adjustments you suggested
@@Kenosos that would be fun. First I need to figure out how to make videos at all.
@@ddopson Aha, fair enough. I managed to work out the automation also and now it's all running smoothly thanks to your suggestions :)
@@Kenosos I'm glad you were able to get it working! I'd be curious to get your feedback on which aspects were confusing and / or which of my tips ended up being the most useful.
I had a lot of fun working through this like a real reliability engineering problem. Back when I used to actually play ONI I remember my volcano tamer being a constant source of problems, and I stumbled upon some of these fixes; then more recently, after watching GCFungus struggle with it, I fired up the ONI sandbox to run some experiments and pin down a properly engineered design.
My biggest internal debate is between using gold vs diamond interface tiles. The gold significantly reduces the risk of pipe breaks, but diamond is invulnerable to catastrophic melting events.
I really would like to make a video of this, or at minimum of a proper write-up with screenshots, but I'm not sure if I'll ever find the time.
Good gracious. Your flow map at 2:00 is insanely amazing. I'm currently desperately heating up the ice biomes for water(!) but I am at the mid-game, so I'll now try this boiler. Thank you!
Hi GC, i wanna say thanks to you, i finally get a petroleum boiler running. Your tutorials are very easy to understand and implement. Thanks for your work!
That's great to hear!
really love that u also include designs on HOW to do things, building it, pouring liquids, which materials etc; thanks for another great tutorial man keep it up!
As a new player, your videos have been invaluable. Thanks for making these.
Thanks for your bite series they are cool. Around a year ago I stumbled upon the design that uses 3 pipes of 1kg pumped magma through the heat exchanger. It simplifies so many things that I'm very surprised nobody uses it. I use it in my base and it works beautifully.
I agree that it simplifies things so I can see the attraction. I think the reason that the 10kg/s design is more popular is that it's still quite reliable and more powerful.
I could instantly tell you were an engineer. This really is a game made for our kind, isn't it?
Thank you for saying exactly how much crude oil input is needed, a lot of guides simply ignore this information and leaves one thinking that one source can run multiple of these which is not the best scenario
Just got my first functioning petroleum boiler, thanks to you! 😊
That's great to hear! I hope it was all running smoothly!
@@GCFungus Smooth as butter. It took a little while to set up but it was all worth it in the end.
When starting this up for the first time, put a valve on your oil input and restrict the flow. I used 1000g but it might work with more. This isn't to prevent pipe breaking (though that helps), it's to make sure that the boiler can keep up with the oil input when you have 0 preheating (everything is empty). If it fails to keep up, you can crack the walls next to where the oil drips (too much oil instead of petroleum can cause pressure damage apparently), or end up with oil in the petroleum channels which might clog up the whole system
This tip was a life saver. Thanks.
I've been waiting for this tutorial bite. I've tried to build petroleum boilers and they always break on me as I couldn't troubleshoot it. The tuning tips and the energy guide is super helpful too
I think I figured out how to prevent pipe breakage with this - hook the airlock automation to multiple thermo sensors, place those at different levels in the boiling chamber, and optionally don't place the lowest one on the cell where the crude oil lands. I used 3 sensors across a chamber 5 cells tall - all 3 set to 403°C. No issues boiling 10kg/s. Crude coming in was ~85°C, petroleum going out was 105°C I think.
Yet another phenomenal tutorial bite. You make this look a lot easier than I expected it to be, and having the dimensions of the pipe runs along with explanations of why those lengths is awesome. I'll be watching this a few more times as I actually build my first one. Thanks!
Im building my first petroleum boiler today! Thank you for these tutorials, I'll let you know if its a success 😁
I hope it goes well!
@GCFungus after a few bumps it's finally working! There was a weird bug that wasn't updating the temp of one of the temp sensors and it broke 😆 now onto rockets! 🥰
4:05 oh that's brilliant! That solves so many problems I have whem building these.
using a aqua tuner to cool the petroleum and heat the oil is smart. a small improvement would be to have the igneous rock that's doing nothing at 400 degrees be picked up and be used to heat the supercoolent in addition to the petroleum, that way you get better heating of the super coolant and also free igneous rock
Can't wait for geothermal tutorial
This is great. It explains some of the issues I've had with my boilers. Now I can improve in the future. These Tutorial Bites have been great. Even better if would be to talk about how to safely start one up to not get instant sour gas. That is my problem. I need to make sure the heated diamond tiles aren't so high to start with.
That was a miss on my part, there is so much to include that I didn't mention how to initialize the boiler. Basically to avoid the sour gas fill the boiling section of the counterflow near the top, then heat that until it is petroleum. Once you have a large stable amount of petroleum in there you can turn the boiler on full flow and it should be fine.
@@GCFungus Yep. Thanks for a great explanation here. I've had to learn that the hard way. I now have several KG of sour gas to empty out of my boiler.
@@GCFungus I am on my first attempt to build the boiler and I was looking for a tip how to initialize the process. Thanks a lot!
I put a liquid pipe thermo sensor directly at the vent. If the crude oil gets over 399 C° it will also open the airlock. I never had a pipe break yet and the oil has always 399 C°.
I was wondering if the memory gate is really needed, because there are 3 cases:
1- Temp is too low, the sensor sends a green signal, and the filter output is still red - the input to the bottom door should be green (open to receive the igneous rock).
2- after 20s sensor signal is still green, but now the filter has also turned green - the door input should be red/closed (preparing for the new magma drop).
3- magma has dropped, the sensor sends a red signal and so does the filter gate- the door stays closed (red).
So, using the sensor output and the filter output as inputs to the XOR gate, and using the output of the gate as the input to the bottom door, you’d have:
sensorGreen + filterRed - doorGreen
sensorGreen + filterGreen - doorRed
sensorRed + filterRed - doorRed
and the sensor red with the filter green I think it will happen only for a split second after the magma drops (between cases 2 and 3), because the sensor turns red but the filter take a "tick" to turn red (if it behaves like a not gate when switching). The door in this case should stay closed (keep receiving a red signal), but since it’s an XOR the output will turn green for a fraction of a second. The memory gate prevents this from happening because the sensor will turn red before the filter, and since the filter is the one connected to the reset port, the memory will stay red until the filter turns red. But is this really necessary? Or the split second that the door opens is enough to leak some magma? Doesn’t the door need to be fully open to allow liquids to pass (the door will receive a green signal so quick that the animation doesn’t even do anything I think).
Old video i know but, I had a lot of trouble with the magma overheating the miner. I added 1 more door about the top lava intake door. That fixed the problem. I was getting too much lava coming in. Adding the 2nd door right above limited the magma to a single tile, that there it worked perfectly.
I've never seen that issue with this design, but good that you fixed it. My guess would probably be that the magma blade is too short.
@@GCFungus Aye it was and the angle I had to build at wasnt optimal. "The Lab map." So I had to buffer the flow.
I found this very difficult to start up and couldn't understand how to deal with the overflow which led to other problems and what fixed it for me is connecting a liquid element sensor(set:crude oil) where the crude oil drops and connect it to the liquid vent with a not gate.
other than that, thanks for a wonderful tutorial, i can finally produce petroleum.
I'm glad to hear that you got it working, but it sounds like something isn't quite as intended if you are having to shut off the oil input regularly (although that is not a bad safety feature). Given that you said you also had some issues starting it up, I suspect you may have an issue with the heat injector and are not getting as much heat through as you could. If you want to take a further look, we can advise on the discord discord.gg/bnqYAUTMmn - or no worries if you're happy with it as is.
Absolutely incredible! Loved every second of this tutorial bite. Now I just need to get to that point in my gameplay so I can use what I learned. Keep up the good work GCFungus!
The king has returned! 😸
You could activate the drill and replace the magma when the heat injector airlock starts staying closed for too long. This would self regulate and eliminate the need for tuning.
A possibility but I think this would probably end up less efficient than working it out. You have to watch these boilers carefully anyway, so spending some time at the start to make sure it's working is well worth it for tuning in my opinion.
Something you (COULD) add, an element sensor and a buffer gate for the oil, so if for what ever reason if you deside to cut it off, the heat wont break the liquid pump.
Thanks for the petroleum boiler video for ONI! Also I noticed that if you add small amount of oil at the start it gonna turn into sour gas each time, it take me while to fix it.🥶🥶🥶🥶
So before starting the boiler, it helps to have a decent pool of oil to absorb the heat and stop it flashing.
that also worked too thank you very much!@@GCFungus 🗿
im absolutely bad at oxygen not included but i cant deny the beauty of a system that creates water out of nowhere
very important i've watched this so many times and wasn't sure what i was doing wrong, the door for heat transfer that isn't touching the magma also needs to be steel/gold bc of thermal reactivity. now that ive watched it after realizing my mistake i notice he does mention the thermal reactivity but since it wouldn't melt i wasn't considering that oops. save a lot of time and use the right metal unlike me lol.
Thanks
Thank you!
Very nice tutorial indeed, I'll certainly use it as reference of everything needed for my boiler (which is just few projects away in my game) without need to search forums.
I would maybe reverse one of your advices - when building top row, i would start with about 1/3 of pipes insulated, let it go for some time (to properly start counterflow) and then start replacing segments with radiant pipe while watching oil temperature on output.
Am I right this design could fail (few broken pipes) if flow of crude would slow/stop? For my base i suspect flow wouldn't be full 10 kg/s as i plan few sour gas boilers.
You can play it that way, but on start-up the oil will be colder than when it is in normal operation. I think it's fair to say that its easier to deal with a too cold output than a too hot one yes, but I believe the lengths I demonstrated here are fairly safe so I wouldn't worry. If a pipe segment does fail then yes the boiler will stop, so needs to be repaired quickly. Sour gas boilers are great and will be the topic of a future tutorial bite - there's no reason you can't have both if you have enough oil reservoirs.
Random trivia: the name magma blade dates at least to 2011 Minecraft where a similar lava flow mechanic used to be used for mob farm
Interesting to know, I'm not really a minecraft player.
2:41 There is possibility to gain even more power from Geothermal Boiler! Becauae Igneus Rock comes oit of it in above 400 degrees, you can cool it in steam chamber, and power steam turbines!
Great vid as always! I am a bit confused about the variant with cobalt radiant pipes. If the top row is supposed to be 15 pipes length, what's the length for the rows below supposed to be then?
All the materials use the same shape in these designs. The thing that changes is how much radiant vs insulated you use on the top row.
I would like to mention that this is a game about a funny collection of morons in space with silly little alien creatures trying to make a livable area for their waky adventures to ensue, and then you pull out a chart like THAT.
I have to admit I learned a lot from Francis John in playing this game. However, you explain a build in so much detail that it is easy to follow.
I have a question and insight on your guides.
I tried building your petroleum boiler but for some reason, the steel door between the two diamond window tile stops transferring heat after a few cycles. Specially when I leave the boiler, which floods the counter flow with crude oil which forcing me to stop the flow of oil. After a few cycles, the steel door will start transferring heat and the design will function.
I see in your meteor video that you are using window tiles at the base of your c-shaped housing of your drills. It is better to use air flow tiles instead so the line of sight of scanners and soalar panels will not be blocked. (I am not sure if that still applies or works on spaced out DLC.)
Thanks, and I learned most of what I know from FJ too, so he is definitely the OG ONI creator that I hope to add to.
Diagnosing specific issues with these boilers is a little difficult, and may be best done in the Discord, but my guess from your description is that the most likely issue is the oil input temperature is too low. If the magma is having to do too much heating then it looks like the door is unable to transfer enough heat to balance the incoming oil. I would check that first and see if it's dropping. If it isn't that then it could be due to the heat transfer in the door itself, I've seen many weird issues where heat conduction doesn't work as intended, but the design as I showed here should work.
As for the meteor shower set-up, actually with the conduction panels you no longer need a c-shape at all. You can simply attach the robominers to a vertical wall and cool that way.
u can make it better by just adding a not gate and liquid element sensor and linking it to the liquid vent so if it detects crude oil it will shut off so u don't have a big mess or if u don't have much magma to convert all the crude oil to petroleum the liquid pump doesn't keep on pumping the oil
for whatever reason, the tile directly to the left of where the oil drops is taking overpressure damage... Anyone else have this issue? I have no idea how I'd even begin to solve this
i solved it by placing the liquid vent on the tile where the oil drops, so it doesnt add too much. the system also gets more stable after a cycle or 2 as its warmed up
Your guides are great. However, by copying Francis John's design, you also copied one of it's greatest flaws. The heat exchanger is thermally connected to the boiler, which is what causes the incoming crude oil to burst in the pipe. Simply create a ledge for the petroleum to fall off into the heat exchanger to isolate them, similar to a "staircase heat exchanger". Make sure you route the pipes out of the boiler as well. (You will likely need to lower the entire heat exchanger by 1 tile)
Wdym?
@@bendover2160This is kinda difficult to explain with words, so I made this image that highlights the key elements I'm talking about.
@@wakko8005 what do you think about adding an element sensor instead of the thermo sensor?
@@bendover2160 As a way to prevent pipe breakage I consider it pointless, since it doesn't resolve the underlying issue, and it might cause "heat overshoot" as another commenter phrased it. Speaking of heat overshoot, I would also power the Heat Injector Door.
It could be a neat addition to a thermo sensor to prevent excessive oil buildup when starting it up for the first time, or if there's an issue with heat injection. I wouldn't remove the thermo sensor, though.
One change I would definitely do is to add another Hydro sensor in the Petroleum output pool, to stop Oil input if Petroleum levels get too high.
Because, if you're not consuming all the Petroleum and (assuming you made my suggested changes) the Petroleum fills the entire top floor, you will thermally reconnect the Boiler and Heat Exchanger. Pipes will also end up running through boiling Petroleum again, as there'll be no vacuum cells.
Hi, I got a weird problem - The boiler is exactly build after your tutorial, now, 400 cycles later sometimes sourgas is in the vacuum room with the magma and mineroboter. I don't know how this happens. I pump it out until there is again a vaccuum but after new magma is put in there is again sourgas. I've tried to take out the oil which is for the coolng of the mineroboter, but still sourgas spawning. Anybody got a workaround for this? Thx!
That's odd and a bit difficult to diagnose without knowing why it's getting in there. Clearly some oil or petroleum is getting superheated by the magma. If you've taken the oil input away from the robominer, then the only source I could think of is if it's maybe pressure damaging coming from the boiling area? I'd say maybe the best way to diagnose this is to put an atmo sensor in the room connected to a notifier to tell you when the gas is formed. Then you could reload the cycle and watch to see what's happening.
I encountered a problem where the thermo sensor stopped registering and updating its current temperature once the magma turned into igneous rock, thus the automation stopped itself entirely and the waste door never opened to get rid of the igneous rock and let fresh magma drop in.
The thermo sensor should definitely still work in the igneous rock, are you sure that's the issue?
Weird question but I figured you would know if anyone did. Is it possible to build a petrolium boiler based of petrolium rocket exhasut heat capture? If an asteroid has lots of crude oil (and for some reason, diamond), but no volcanos, and the progress of the game isn't up to space materials, would it be feasible to capture the heat of the rocket exhaust via diamond window tiles instead of using magma? It seems like it would work, but I can't seem to find anyone on youtube or reddit who has claimed to have tried it.
Potentially, but I don't think the heat output is high or consistent enough really. I did cover rocket tunnels in a Tutorial Bite, including just getting heat out but not for a petroleum boiler. Also, if you have the means and knowledge to do a rocket tunnel then space materials aren't much more difficult than that. Once you have thermium then it's going to be much much simpler and easier to do an aquetuner build.
What do you do with all the igneous rock that this design makes? I see it gets dumped into the hole but do you just leave that? Also, I noticed when building mine that that specific door isnt opening at all despite me trying to switch it on or off and it just wont go?
If the door isn't working then I can only assume it's not connected properly. As for the rock, in this design it's just left but you can take it out for use. It is quite hit though and can be used for some more power if conveyor railed out.
@@GCFungus I have it connected exactly as you do, its just when the thermo sensor is green it wont open the door to drop the rock down under
Im trying to build an aquatuner boiler but I am having a hard time getting it running because I dont have any petroleum output yet so my supercoolant keeps hitting zero and I cant create enough heat to boil the oil. Any tips?
Yes for start-up you need to provide heat, so running the coolant through a room with liquid and a tempidizer should be able to counteract the extra cold created. I probably should have mentioned that!
@@GCFungus Oh yeah, Tepidizers exist. I forget about them all the time
I love this design but had a small issue with it, the place where the oil actually boils overpressured and leaked through the wall
Is there a fix for this?
This can happen if you overfill the boiling srea when starting up. Once the area is full of petroleum it will stabilise. Whe starting them up feed the oil in a bit more slowly. If you've already started it then just fix the tile damage and wait for it to all turn into petroleum. Be careful for sour gas ending up in the magma dropping area though.
@@GCFungus Ok, thanks :)
Very nice.
the wall between the crude oil drop and the auto miner keeps breaking due to over pressure in from the liquid.
Is it breaking when you're starting up or during normal running? If it's on start-up then I would suggest using less oil to start with. If it's during running then there is probably some issue with the heat transfer across the wall so I would watch that closely to try and find why the oil isn't turning intro petroleum, which is what causes the pressure damage.
@@GCFungus I figured out the issue. It was my startup. J had too much crude oil before the temp was hot enough to turn it into petroleum. So when too much converted all at once, the wall chipped and leaked sour gas
i follow your instruction but the boiler produce sour gas too so my vacum is filled by sour gas.
When starting the boiler, make sure to have a good amount (~4) tiles full first before using the heat injector. That should stop any sour gas forming.
I was thinking about the ways to cool the leftover rock from volcano and then it came to my mind.. I wonder could there be a way to consistently squeeze most of the heat out of the rock to preheat the petroleum. Could reduce the amount of heat used from volcano.
You definitely can use it that way, just be careful to adjust the length of the Hest exchanger. You may also find it variable if the rock supply is not consistent which could cause issues. Another way to use the heat is to run it through a steam room and take extra power out that way.
@@GCFungus Yeah, was thinking about measuring the average output from the whole process and then using the rail meters to adjust the amount that passes petroleum boiler each second. Honestly it sounds like such a hassle but Im willing to play around haha
Is this still up to date? I'm not familiar with the game mechanics all that much but when I'm trying this, the oil temperature is dropping because the automation with the sensor being below 405 is keeping the door open. The magma isn't dropping either, what I've done should be almost exactly like your setup besides the oil piping cooling down the mining laser has a filter just incase water gets inside the pipes. I'm also having issues with sourgas and pressure damage in the same area when I try to set the sensor to above instead of below 405
Yes, apologies there was an error in the one take that should be ABOVE 405 which was correctly shown earlier on. If you're getting sour gas in that case then maybe try adding more oil, as it shouldn't transfer heat that quickly.
@@GCFungus thanks I'll try that
what is the material of the insulation tile? you didn't tell it once in the video.
For the boiler side it doesn't matter too much, so igneous rock is what I use as it's abundant and the best insulator (outside of ceramic or insulation). To contain the magma, you can use obsidian which will never melt, or also stick with igneous rock which will eventually melt in theory but it will take thousands of cycles.
@@GCFungus thank you. I go with igneous rock but it keep breaking of overpressure. Turns out crude oil expands when changing into petroleum and when i start the system, the left side of my boiler was already full of crude oil. For anyone reading this. Make sure that the window plate already reaches or near 400°. So that when the oil dripped, it immediately turned into petroleum. Not accumulating as crude oil. I learned it the hard way haha.
Hey, so I seem to have developed a vacuum pocket in the lower corner of my boiler next to the thermo sensor. It's causing the automation to flake out, which is leaving a lot of crude oil unprocessed. Then, when the next set of magma drops, I'm getting pressure cracks in the retaining wall which is filling my heat injector chamber with sour gas. Any thoughts how to sort this? Do I just need to live with it until it settles and pump the sour gas out?
I'm not sure exactly where you mean the vacuum is forming - in the oil side? To start the boiler up I would put a good few tiles of oil into the boiler side and then put the magma in the hot side and let it turn. At that point you can carefully watch to ensure you get petroleum, but you shouldn't be getting a vacuum or sour gas if its working correctly.
@@GCFungus Hi, thanks for replying. It's been running fine for a while now, so it's not a startup issue. The vacuum pocket is right above the heat exchanger on the tile that has the thermo sensor at below 405 degrees. It will briefly fill each time a drop of crude oil comes out of the vent, then return to vacuum once that is converted to petroleum.
I think the issue is I haven't been able to make full use of the power, or more specifically of the extra petroleum, so it's been overflowing through the liquid lock. Maybe I just need to have the petroleum generators running constantly rather than capping them with a smart battery?
I think DDopson's response, below, has the answer I'm looking for.
Can new radiation exchanger help with a design?
If you mean the conduction panel, then yes this is a useful addition to cool the robominer, but won't help with anything else I'm afraid.
Does the design work with minor volcanoes, or can 2 work fine?
I mentioned in the video that yes it should work with any minor volcano if the oil input temperature reaches over 375 degrees C.
What i got on my map is a minor volcano, is it enough for this design?
Yes, I mentioned this in the video that as long as the oil output temperature is high enough then even a minor volcano should work.
@@GCFungus Thanks, sorry i missed it! By the way, for the magma use obsidian insulated tile, but what about the heat exchanger? I don't think i have enough obsidian for the whole build, i think.
OoOooOoOo good stuff
Is there a way to shut it down without getting the pump overheated?
To be honest I haven't had issues with pump overheating when the boiler turns off. Steel seems to be fine for me.
why do you need to vacuum out the volcano?
So if you open the volcano and enclose it quickly with insulation then leaving gas inside shouldn't be an issue. Vacuuming out hot areas though does mean you can have dupe access without scalding. That's particularly useful if you want to set things up while the volcano is erupting, or you need to go back in later to change something.
Holy shit, that's a lot to do x_x
Any recommendations for the very hot igneous rock byproduct?
The obvious one would be taking some heat out of it with a steam turbine, and you could also use it for building. Possibly cooling it for ranches but would take quite a bit of energy to get it cool enough.
What about Liquid Tepidizer? Can it be used as a heat source?
The tepidizer normally runs up to 85 degrees then turns off. You can trick it like I showed in the heating tutorial bite but above 125 degrees is loses efficiency to stop you exploiting it too much. That's not hot enough to boil oil.
@GCFungus The only problem of Aquatuner Boiler is the need to preheat the system. I was thinking about using Tepidizer on Aquatuner pipes to do it. Can't get above 125 degrees?
@@Lorens4444 Not effectively no. The heat up shouldn't be too bad and does only need to be done once.
boilers are a nightmare but the upsides are definately worth the pain. so many mistakes i made i kept having to drain and fix the tunnel, oof.
Yeah they can be a bit challenging to learn, but I think once you have the hang of it and can run it reliably they completely change how you can approach the game. Getting so much power, food and water will completely stabilize a small base so you can focus on lots of other things.
Can this be built with the bigger volcanos?
Either the volcano or minor volcano work, and the bigger one should give you more margin. It won't work with metal volcanoes.
okay tyyy@@GCFungus
did some math, if you take the igneous rock (someone on the internet says this uses about 400 g/s of magma) thats at 420c and route it to a steam room (without losing temp) you can get about 76 whole watts for free lol. (76k dtu's to be exact, can be nice for making sure you steam room doesnt get too cold) ( i will be doing this. i cannot handle the idea of wasting .4 kg of rock.
Also, in my current map the volcano I have is too close to the bottom of the planetoid to accommodate the whole boiler. Can you suggest ways to save a bit of vertical space, please?
I guess
1) the blade of 10 spaces coulf be in line with the base of the volcano (i.e. the insulating tiles continuing from the nuetronium)
2) those two spaces below the upper mechanized airlock could be reduced to one
3) same for that one extra space after the second mech. airlock, maybe?
4) what about a smaller/different receptacle for the igneous rock broken by the robo-miner? Moving it out to a space with some water under a turbine, using shipping?
Thanks 🙂
Well the first option is simply to use an aquetuner not the volcano, but if you are set on that then be careful making the blade too close to the volcano as it won't be able to store enough when dormant. Remember that the shape of the boiler doesn't actually matter, just the length - so rather than use 3 layers as shown you could literally make this 1 horizontal layer 3x as long. Reducing any space you can manage in the heat injector and debris collector will help.
@@GCFungus oooooooh! You're a genius! 🙂
Does this degisn dont suffer from heat deletion bug? I have heard that we should make the oil flow go west to avoid this.
I'm not aware of a heat deletion bug, so can't say. There's no issue with setting this up flowing in the opposite way though.
Hi, is it posible to make this work with cobalt instead of magma?
I must admit I've not tried it, but I've done a quick look at the maths. I believe it would be possible, but it is much harder to make work compared to even a minor volcano. From a heat point of view, to run a full 10kg/s boiler from an average minor volcano, you have to keep the oil output temperature above 365 degrees C. For a cobalt volcano this would have to be above 392 degrees C , so a very small window. In addition I expect there would be practical challenges in managing the cobalt flow, as the amounts produced are much less, and I don't know how the liquid will flow. If you've built a volcano one before and want to have a go at cobalt for a cool challenge, then by all means give it a go (in sandbox) and let me know! If you're relatively new to petroleum boilers then I'd stick with magma first.
I was asking because my map did not have any magma volcanos. I only have cobalt and iron.
i geotuned my volcano way too much lol, it turned directly into rock gas, very unforch
Haha, would make for an interesting design!
I can't seem to make the automation for the magma dropper to work properly. followed the connections but the doors won't open to drop magma @_@
If you've connected it up as shown, then the two magma dropper doors should alternate when you flip the thermo sensor in the bottom - with a delay as dictated by the filter gate. I'm assuming the issue is the magma hasn't flowed through, in which case just manually toggle the thermo sensor at the bottom to let a little bit into the dropping area.
At 7:00 you said that geothermal has the problem of "heat spike"? What is that? Because I built one of these things naively using geothermal in my actual run, using a single diamond tempshift plate at a diagonal in order to extract geothermal heat and it's been working flawlessly - but I'm not sure if this "heat spike" thing has happened yet.
A heat spike is a design (not something that happens) which extends usually diamond window tiles into a pool of magma, creating a spike shape. This is necessary because as either a boiler or power plant draws heat out of the pool, it will slowly cool and solidify, so you dig further to get to the hot bits again. Now this works completely fine for both boilers and geothermal power, but is fundamentally not sustainable as the heat is slowly used up. Personally I prefer to make boilers fully sustainable which is why I prefer volcanoes.
@@GCFungus makes sense, thanks for the info!
Maybe enough cycles have not passed yet, but it seems to me that even with a single diamond tempshift plate, the heat in the magma pool is being drained evenly among the entire magma pool. So while it is fundamentally unsustainable, it does not seem to require more than 1 diamond tempshift plate to extract the heat, making it a simpler mid-game design since you can skip the complicated volcano taming mechanisms until later.
Yeah it's essentially a matter of time and how quickly the heat is being drained. Geothermal setups can vary with size, so 1 or 2 steam turbines will obviously pull a lot less heat than say 5+. If it works then there's nothing wrong with doing it, and heat spikes are a perfectly good way of extracting the heat. I would also say that actually the volcano taming for a geothermal volcano isn't actually that complicated, as I hope to demonstrate when I get to that tutorial bite!
@@GCFungus Looking forward to it! Your tutorial bites are excellent.
@@GCFungus here is a screenshot of it: imgur.com/Hp7NLVZ.png
The magma temperature shown here is roughly the same in any location in the magma.
The topmost magma tile was an igneous rock insulated tile that got melted from the tempshift plate (oops!). Seems harmless though.
Anyway my point is I think this is going to last a great number of cycles before I need to retrofit the heat source, and by that time maybe I can upgrade to a sour gas boiler.
Why not just pass the petroleum through the aquatuner as you pump it out of the boiler? You're exchanging heat between the coolant and the petroleum anyway. Skip a step and pull heat directly from the petroleum.
That may seem like a good idea, but the specific heat capacity of petroleum doesn't work well. Because its so low, you would need 4.77 aquetuners cooling petroleum to match a single one with supercoolant. That means pulling almost 6kW of power rather than 1.2kW. Plus in this case all you're actually saving is the need for a pipe to pipe heat exchanger which is simple to build anyway.
@@GCFungus Oh I see. It's because the supercoolant will get cold enough to cool the petroleum by more than 14 degrees. Thereby extracting more heat than an aquatuner would. Clever.
i sorta end up having my petroleum oil at the button of my pump at temperate at 400'c+ and my Petroleum Steel Pump getting Heat Damaged i too braindead how to solve that i kept redoing but the problem kept happening
Is your counterflow working correctly? The incoming oil should easily take out thr heat from the petroleum.
@@GCFungus it work now! checking out the counterflow make me notice my crude oil was sitting at 160'c+ had to cool down the crude oil to 100'c and it work properly
the only rough part is pipes breaking. sometimes it just breaks for reasons I cannot ascertain. Nice intro though thank you for explaining how slicksters become a benefit from this build.
I would guess it's small packets flowing through the pipes which then overheat. That can happen when the wells get vented, or for some other problem with oil production.
@@GCFungus interesting that is true I also put a not gate with an element sensor so only crude oil goes into that hot environment avoiding steam down there.. I guess doing a double liquid bridge to send 10kg packets down would help but I'm not sure if it would ultimately leave 1 gap.. or just use liquid vent at 95% output to always have a full line of crude oil. Thanks!
new to the game here, I'd like to ask what petroleum boilers are for?
I'm hoping I covered that in the video. Their purpose is to turn oil into petroleum which can be used in petroleum generators to make power, water and carbon dioxide. By heating it you get a full mass conversion unlike in the oil refinery.
@@GCFungus oh, yeah. you did, sorry is confused is all.
I haven't tried boiling petroleum yet. I always thought that boiling crude oil produces natural gas as well. Where is it?
No, the oil only turns into petroleum. You can then boil the petroleum into sour gas, super cool that into methane and then reheat into natural gas, and this build is called a sour gas boiler which I also have a Tutorial Bite for.
@@GCFungus oh! yeah, i've seen your sour gas boiler tut. if crude oil just turns to petroleum, is there an issue if you just use a metal refinery, use oil as the coolant while turning it to petroleum? no pipes bursting?
@@jeremygonzal8603 Oil turning into petroleum inside pipes will cause them to burst so you do want to avoid that. Generally though oil should be fine from a metal refinery if you're running radiant pipes through a steam room. But you can use petroleum to be safe.
@@GCFungus Darn. So they do burst pipes. That seems nonsensical since it's liquid to liquid. And yeah, I figured petroleum is the best metal refinery coolant since it can take so much heat then you just feed it all to the petroleum generator deleting all of that heat. I'm actually using heated petroleum to make refined phosphorus.
Anyway, your tutorial bites are AWESOME! Thanks for all the work on your videos!
i thought i followed this plan pretty well but my boiler keeps breaking from pressure damage where the oil boils
Is the oil boiling more or less instantly? Usually pressure damage only occurs when the oil builds up. Otherwise the petroleum should be able to flow back down the heat-exchanger freely.
i had the same issue with this, my problem was the petroleum in the counterflow was too much because i didn't pump it constantly. If you're pumping it constantly from the boiler system this won't be an issue. Easiest way to check this is to see if there is gaps on the counterflow, if it's there, you're probably all right. I also added an hydrosensor with the notification automation thing on one of the said gaps just in case some weird pipe mechanics blocks the flow after the pump on the boiler.
Speaking of boilers, did you not mention that you would cover sour gas boilers? Did I miss that video or is it... in the pipeline (wink, wink)? 🙂
Thanks
Sour gas boilers will have their own tutorial bite, hopefully in not too long!
Is it a problem if I only have 2 oil wells?
Yes and no. If you simply hooked up 2 oil wells to the design as shown, you would get small packets of oil that would get too hot in the counterflow heat exchanger and break the pipes. But the design can be easily modified to accept 2 oil wells. Firstly I would recommend using a liquid valve on the input line to ensure it was only letting in a constant 6666g/s. Then you will likely have to shorten the length of the heat exchanger to make sure it doesn't get too hot at the end. You can do this by physically shortening the runs, or replacing some of the radiant pipe with insulated pipe until you get a good stable output temperature near to 400 degrees.
1:58 your mum is also infinitely sustainable and self sufficient
Hello, I'm trying to make one petroleum boiler but I'm using the magma at the bottom of the map, I have not finished yet but I notice one thing, when the crude oil boills in petroleum in my game it also make sour gas, and it does not happen in the video. how you did it?
Regardless of how you supply the magma, you should have the magma on one side and the oil/petroleum on the other. The key thing you need to control heat transfer is a heat injector, which is a mechanized airlock controlled by a thermo sensor, which is sat between diamond window tiles. When the door is open, there is a vacuum so no heat is moved across. When the door is shut then heat can come from the magma to boil the oil. I covered this at 04:31 in the video.
10.04
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i found that if you got your hands on space materials the petrolium boiler is no longer viable.. i advice you to go strait to sour gas boiler...i say do geothermal petrolium boiler and when you get thermium go sour gas boiler
I'm not sure I entirely agree, petroleum and sour gas boilers have different benefits. They are both great though!
this is a plain copy of francis john's tutorial nuggets. shame on you :(
i hate things like this
I don't think that is particularly fair. There are only so many ways to explain the same idea, and the counterflow design is simply the most efficient. I have directly used some of the same design from Francis John's build here, and I credited him for that in the video. But the script and designs are my own, and I have changed parts of the design as well as explained things differently in my video. My video is about half the length an includes additional edited information that his does not. This is entirely my own work, not a copy, that is on the same design in a tutorial format - there are inevitably similarities.
@@GCFungus sorry, i did not see that you gave him credit for the design. i was overly reactive. im very sorry.
edit: calling your series tutorial bites when his is called tutorial nuggets is still, in my opinion, copying.